So its official: Henry was a much better player for Arsenal than Bergkamp

[BOBN]

Arsenal will mark their 125th anniversary this weekend by unveiling statues of Thierry Henry, Tony Adams, and Herbert Chapman outside the Emirates Stadium.

The trio of club icons have been selected as deserving of special commemoration and will be unveiled on Friday, the day before Arsenal play Everton, when the club plan to celebrate their 125th birthday.

Henry, who is due in London this weekend to take part in the celebrations, is the club’s record goalscorer. The French striker scored 226 times in 370 matches for the club and despite leaving for Barcelona and then the New York Red Bulls, has always spoken of Arsenal as being his first love.

Adams gave 19 years playing service to Arsenal, from 1983 to 2002. He has often spoken of his desire to return to the club in a coaching or managerial role.

Chapman, hailed as a managerial visionary, steered the club to their first major honours, two league titles and an FA Cup, before his sudden death from pneumonia in 1934.

can we stop this tedious debate now please? bergkamp was a nice player but you saw what happened in the 05 cup final when he was relied on for goals. A whole bunch of nothing.

[Boss]

Don't think anyone intelligent could disagree with that.

[BOBN]

Good man

[LDG]

Perry Groves. That is what they should have done.

In fact, I think a petition should be started. I would Lol so hard if they did that. Gooners would love it.

Perry :bow:

[Xhaka Can’t]

The decision makers at Arsenal are always right. About everything.

[IBK]

can we stop this tedious debate now please? bergkamp was a nice player but you saw what happened in the 05 cup final when he was relied on for goals. A whole bunch of nothing.

What a very, very curious post.

[Letters]

can we stop this tedious debate now please? bergkamp was a nice player but you saw what happened in the 05 cup final when he was relied on for goals. A whole bunch of nothing.

Unlike Henry of course who was full of goals in Cup Finals.



:coffee:

[BOBN]

What a very, very curious post.
Bergkamp was untouchable for about 18 months (late 97-mid 99) after that he was a teddy sheringham type player. Still classy but pretty harmless in the grand scheme of things.

Henry was untouchable for 5 years +

[BOBN]

Unlike Henry of course who was full of goals in Cup Finals.



:coffee:
Theres goals and then theres being the worst player on the pitch. It was sad to see bergkamp being a complete liabilty that day. Not befitting of his talent.

The "second striker" bollocks is not an excuse. RVP could be hiding behind that excuse right now but nope, he just went and scored 40 goals in the calendar year instead.

[Marc Overmars]

Henry. :bow:

What a man.

[Grebbo]

They're both great.

Henry was far more effective than Bergkamp but Bergkamp had that little bit of genius that all football fans love.

Henry was amazing for 5 yrs and certainly deserves a statue more than Bergkamp if only one of them can have one.

[LDG]

We shouldn't be debating who was better.

Both brilliant players. Both true Gooners.

Always a place for them in my heart.

[Cripps_orig]

Bergkamp - joined us when we were languishing in mid table and turned the whole club around and when he left, he left us as a CL finalist, something we have never done before or since

Henry - Joined us when we were title challengers, choked in finals and left us clinging on to top 4 spot before becoming Barca scum and losing the respect of all true Arsenal fans.

Says it all I'm afraid

[bignev]

Bergkamp - joined us when we were languishing in mid table and turned the whole club around and when he left, he left us as a CL finalist, something we have never done before or since

Henry - Joined us when we were title challengers, choked in finals and left us clinging on to top 4 spot before becoming Barca scum and losing the respect of all true Arsenal fans.

Says it all I'm afraid

Bit unfair old bean

[Cripps_orig]

Bit unfair old beanI wasnt actually serious although technically what i said is actually true apart from maybe the losing respect bit.

Im glad we had both and at the same time. Best 2 strikers we've ever had and thats saying something cos i loved Wrighty throughout the 90s and also Kaba Diawara for scoring the goals for me in CM 97/98

If i had to choose one, id choose Bergkamp but Henry was class as well

[server too busy!]

I hope these stautes don't turn out like those Spanish Wax works ones.

[BOBN]

Bergkamp - joined us when we were languishing in mid table and turned the whole club around and when he left, he left us as a CL finalist, something we have never done before or since

Henry - Joined us when we were title challengers, choked in finals and left us clinging on to top 4 spot before becoming Barca scum and losing the respect of all true Arsenal fans.

Says it all I'm afraid
at least henry waited till he got to the bloody final before choking.

bergkamps penalty miss against united in the 99 cup semi - single biggest choke moment in arsenal history.

pressure was just too much for the guy tbh. he cost us the double.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

at least henry waited till he got to the bloody final before choking.

bergkamps penalty miss against united in the 98 cup semi - single biggest choke moment in arsenal history.

pressure was just too much for the guy tbh.

Both were Arsenal legends and always will be, both scored important goals for us and both chocked at times but who has not in their career.

[server too busy!]

This thread is ridiculously shit. Both were awesome players. The. End.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yesterday 12:30 PM #81 Santos' Little Helper (TPUKA Letters)

Define 'fails'

Here you go.


Bergkamp was untouchable for about 18 months (late 97-mid 99) after that he was a teddy sheringham type player. Still classy but pretty harmless in the grand scheme of things.

Henry was untouchable for 5 years +

[Xhaka Can’t]

Bit unfair old bean

Not unlike the OP.

[Letters]

This thread is ridiculously shit. Both were awesome players. The. End.

:gp:

[BOBN]

This thread is ridiculously shit. Both were awesome players. The. End.
yes but some were more awesome than others.

also some didnt refuse to play in certain away games that werent driving distance away and some did.

[LDG]

yes but some were more awesome than others.

also some didnt refuse to play in certain away games that werent driving distance away and some did.

Some refused to see out their playing careers with us too :coffee:

[Syn]

That's a shame - I would've picked Bergkamp as the third statue. For a start, it shouldn't even be about who the better player is, it's who the greater Arsenal legend is. Even if I was going on the better player, I'd pick Bergkamp - but then again, I probably place a disproportionate weight on factors like class, loyalty and technique as opposed to physical strengths like pace and power. Henry was a likely pick I suppose - Equal opportunities act and all that.

(Sorry, just evening things out...a bit like the equal opportunities act, I suppose).

[LDG]

That's a shame - I would've picked Bergkamp as the third statue. For a start, it shouldn't even be about who the better player is, it's who the greater Arsenal legend is. Even if I was going on the better player, I'd pick Bergkamp - but then again, I probably place a disproportionate weight on factors like class, loyalty and technique as opposed to physical strengths like pace and power. Henry was a likely pick I suppose - Equal opportunities act and all that.

(Sorry, just evening things out...a bit like the equal opportunities act, I suppose).

I'd have picked Bergkamp, purely because, out of all the males on this planet, he is the only man I would ever sleep with.

No homo.

[BOBN]

Some refused to see out their playing careers with us too :coffee:
its easy to be loyal to one of the greatest sides english football will ever see. its like when people go on about neville, giggs, raul being loyal one-club men. yeah, no shyt.

bergkamp flopped in italy so probably thought he'd flop in spain too. he had nowhere to go.


That's a shame - I would've picked Bergkamp as the third statue. For a start, it shouldn't even be about who the better player is, it's who the greater Arsenal legend is. Even if I was going on the better player, I'd pick Bergkamp - but then again, I probably place a disproportionate weight on factors like class, loyalty and technique as opposed to physical strengths like pace and power. Henry was a likely pick I suppose - Equal opportunities act and all that.

(Sorry, just evening things out...a bit like the equal opportunities act, I suppose).
henrys technique was more impressive than bergkamps. its easy to look proficient when youre doing everything at 2mph. give me 6 weeks an id bake the best looking cake youve ever seen.

[Syn]

henrys technique was more impressive than bergkamps. its easy to look proficient when youre doing everything at 2mph. give me 6 weeks an id bake the best looking cake youve ever seen.

If it's easy to do, it's easy to defend against. But he wasn't easy to defend against. Not sure what the quality of first touch has to do speed anyway - unless he was asking his teammates to launch those 50 yard passes slower.

[Marc Overmars]

Bergkamp. :lol:

Awf...

Nah, can't do it.

[LDG]

Give me 6 weeks an id bake the best looking cake youve ever seen.

How exciting.

[BOBN]

If it's easy to do, it's easy to defend against. But he wasn't easy to defend against. Not sure what the quality of first touch has to do speed anyway - unless he was asking his teammates to launch those 50 yard passes slower.
the thing is he was easy to defend against. look at his goal count, look at his assist count, look at his time in italy.

the only thing bergkamp had over henry was vision. pure technique...henry could do everything bergkamp could do with a football and more.

[Xhaka Can’t]

This thread belongs in Mongsweb.

[Marc Overmars]

This thread belongs in Mongsweb.

Goonersweb, Mongsweb

Same thing tbh.

[LDG]

This thread belongs in Mongsweb.

Your left foot belongs in mongsweb.

[Xhaka Can’t]

This thread belongs in Mongsweb.

In the Mongs Section.

[LDG]

the thing is he was easy to defend against. look at his goal count, look at his assist count, look at his time in italy.

the only thing bergkamp had over henry was vision. pure technique...henry could do everything bergkamp could do with a football and more.

Well known fact that Dennis was quicker over the first five yards than anyone else in the team, including Henry.

[Marc Overmars]

In the Mongs Section.

AFC Debate, Mongs Section

Same thing tbh.

[LDG]

In the Mongs Section.

Your left foot should be in the Mongs Section.

[Letters]

How exciting.

I will NOT have you dissing cake, young man :fury:

[LDG]

I will NOT have you dissing cake, young man :fury:

Piss off back to the Mongs Section! :angry:

[Letters]

Piss off back to the Mongs Section! :angry:

Isn't that every section? :unsure:

[BOBN]

Well known fact that Dennis was quicker over the first five yards than anyone else in the team, including Henry.
gd trolling lolz :handbags:

[LDG]

Isn't that every section? :unsure:

Just your section.

[Syn]

@BOBN: I'm not sure his goalscoring record shows he was easy to defend against. Was a 1 in 3 man over his career. Nearly 1 in 2 for country. It's good stuff for an ultimate no.10 player. Of course he's not going to have Henry's productivity as being an athlete with good technique is more effective than being a non-athlete with brilliant technique. I disagree that Henry could do everything Bergkamp could do (and vice versa) but personally, I'm a stickler for technique in all sports and I'd definitely give Bergkamp the edge with pure footballing talent. I'd also say your life is a lot easier when you can punt the ball a mile and chase it down.

[LDG]

gd trolling lolz :handbags:

LMAO

[Letters]

I'd also say your life is a lot easier when you can punt the ball a mile and chase it down.

I think there was a little more to Henry than that!

[LDG]

I think there was a little more to Henry than that!

Racist!

[Syn]

I think there was a little more to Henry than that!

Ffffffuuuuu Letters, you always do this.

I didn't say there wasn't. Just saying that it's easier to beat players or charge into space when you're rapid.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Can a mong be racist?

[LDG]

Can a mong be racist?

Some do have preference on colour of head harness.

[Letters]

Ffffffuuuuu Letters, you always do this.

What? Post totally awesome posts? Why thank you, I do my best.


Just saying that it's easier to beat players or charge into space when you're rapid.

Try telling Walcott that.


Why are we replying to this thread anyway?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Mongs do what mongs does.

That's why

[Syn]

What? Post totally awesome posts? Why thank you, I do my best.



Try telling Walcott that.


Why are we replying to this thread anyway?

Because it's one of the few that hasn't been ruined by you having a go at 'the moaners' which in turn evolves into a 'stop moaning about moaning about moaning about moaners who are moaning' discussion. Mod.

Oh no he didn't

Yes, he did. :coffee:

[Letters]

Anyway, I wish people would stop moaning about Bergkamp or Henry.




:cool:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Letters, cut out all that mongy business.

[BOBN]

@BOBN: I'm not sure his goalscoring record shows he was easy to defend against. Was a 1 in 3 man over his career. Nearly 1 in 2 for country. It's good stuff for an ultimate no.10 player. Of course he's not going to have Henry's productivity as being an athlete with good technique is more effective than being a non-athlete with brilliant technique. I disagree that Henry could do everything Bergkamp could do (and vice versa) but personally, I'm a stickler for technique in all sports and I'd definitely give Bergkamp the edge with pure footballing talent. I'd also say your life is a lot easier when you can punt the ball a mile and chase it down.
ah so what youre saying is henry made it look easy while with bergkamp it was a bit of a struggle. the dutch paul dickov. fair enough.

[Letters]

Mongs gotta mong :shrug:

[Cripps_orig]

Bergkamp - Won more with Arsenal, awesome internationally.

Henry - Won less. Zidanes bitch internationally

Says it all I'm afraid

[LDG]

Mongs gotta mong :shrug:

Try saying that with your tongue hanging out.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Try saying that with your tongue hanging out.

:haha:

Everyone should do that at their desk or in their cage now.

[server too busy!]

yes but some were more awesome than others.

also some didnt refuse to play in certain away games that werent driving distance away and some did.

Is Bergkamp fucking your wife or something?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd consider it an honour to have Bergkamp fuck my wife.

[BOBN]

Is Bergkamp fucking your wife or something?
the most immature post in this thread by far tbh. way badder than the mong stuff.

[server too busy!]

the most immature post in this thread by far tbh. way badder than the mong stuff.

This coming from Ach's second account :lol:

[Letters]

Is Bergkamp fucking your wife or something?

Very slowly, probably.

[server too busy!]

Very slowly, probably.

He certainly knows his way around the box

[Cripps_orig]

This coming from Ach's second account :lol::blink:

[BOBN]

He certainly knows his way around the box
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1995–2006 Arsenal 316 (87)

which box was that then?

he would peck around the muff like a micro-willied gimp.

[IBK]

the most immature post in this thread by far tbh. way badder than the mong stuff.

http://dir.coolclips.com/Household/Cleaning_Materials/Laundry_Room_and_Equipment/Irons_Ironing/hand_ironing_CoolClips_hand0020.jpg

[IBK]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FXqLJxXVwSk/TZn3ctQ8qjI/AAAAAAAACNE/h_K5fCaTiOM/s1600/michael+jackson+statue+fulham....jpg

Definitely Fulham's best ever player.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FXqLJxXVwSk/TZn3ctQ8qjI/AAAAAAAACNE/h_K5fCaTiOM/s1600/michael+jackson+statue+fulham....jpg

Definitely Fulham's best ever player.

You'll never win anything with kids.

[Kano]

Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1995–2006 Arsenal 316 (87)

which box was that then?

he would peck around the muff like a micro-willied gimp.

plus 124 assists

http://www.bergkamp10.net/stats.php

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1995–2006 Arsenal 316 (87)

which box was that then?

he would peck around the muff like a micro-willied gimp.

That exclude the ones he scored in the cup.

Sorry.

[Ollie the Optimist]

whichever one got chosen we would be debating it hsould be the other one. both are true Arsenal heros and legends and loved by every single fan. both gave everything to this club and gave us some of the best years in our history. tbh it should be both but Henry deserves it, DB10 will be honoured though am sure of it

[Marc Overmars]

Our greatest manager, greatest captain and greatest goalscorer.

Arsenal. :bow:

[gunnerrrrr]

Bergkamp = Greatest Arsenal player of all time....... he doesn't need any statue, they are going to name Isllington after him.

DB10...Thank you again for all the memories.....LEGEND

[GP]

Wow. Impressive troll thread. Yes, Bergkamp was shit. I'm sure everyone will agree with that....

[gunnerrrrr]

Wow. Impressive troll thread. Yes, Bergkamp was shit. I'm sure everyone will agree with that....

A true gooner would never say his name in vain....much love DB10

[fakeyank]

Thierry makes me cream my pants.. :badger:

[Power n Glory]

Both great players but Bergkamp was the better player imo. Henry had a ton of goals but Bergkamp had some magical goals that I can't forget. Beautiful goals. He created them as well with stunning touches and passing. As much as we talk about Henry getting snubbed for World Player of the Year awards, I feel Bergkamp is a player that doesn't get enough recognition in world football. He's one of those special players and if he hadn't have played for us and played in another league like Italy, Spain or Germany, I think he'd have been talked about now as in the same way people talk about Zidane. The talent was there, but unfortunately, the Dutch never win tournaments and he can't fly for away games in Europe and our team was pretty crap in Europe back then.

I like Henry but I'd say Bergkamp is a genuine World Class player. The magical type that do things you just won't see again. Like Zz, Cryuff, Ronaldinho... he's the one player I've seen play for us that I'd put in the all times elite group. Am I the only one that feels this way? Is it too much to put him in that bracket?

[Cripps_orig]

Both great players but Bergkamp was the better player imo. Henry had a tone of goals but Bergkamp had some magical goals that I can't forget. Beautiful goals. He created them as well with stunning touches and passing. As much as we talk about Henry getting snubbed for World Player of the Year awards, I feel Bergkamp is a player that doesn't get enough recognition in world football. He's one of those special players and if he hadn't have played for us and played in another league like Italy, Spain or Germany, I think he'd have been talked about now as in the same way people talk about Zidane. The talent was there, but unfortunately, the Dutch never win tournaments and he can't fly for away games in Europe and our team was pretty crap in Europe back then.

I like Henry but I'd say Bergkamp is a genuine World Class player. The magical type that do things you just won't see again. Like Zz, Cryuff, Ronaldinho... he's the one player I've seen play for us that I'd put in the all times elite group. Am I the only one that feels this way? Is it too much to put him in that bracket?No

Best player ive ever seen, not just for Arsenal.

[Özim]

and also Kaba Diawara for scoring the goals for me in CM 97/98
Talk is he scored so many goals in CM that he had no goals left in him when he played for us, they said he'd hit the bar during and after the match too.

Very sad really :(

[Xhaka Can’t]

No

Best player ive ever seen, not just for Arsenal.

This.

[gunnerrrrr]

Bergkamp is top 5 of all time for me in world football....never seen a footballer with better touch or technique besides Zidane

[Mr. Lahey]

Henry no question. Goals, assists, technique, intelligence, athleticism, travelled to away CL games etc...he had more in his locker than Bergkamp. Thats not a slight at all against Bergkamp. Henry was the worlds best footballer at one point.

[AKBapologist]

Would like to see a Ian Wright, Wenger and DB10 statues there some day.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger :lol:

[LDG]

This.

Mong.

[Letters]

I like Henry but I'd say Bergkamp is a genuine World Class player. The magical type that do things you just won't see again. Like Zz, Cryuff, Ronaldinho... he's the one player I've seen play for us that I'd put in the all times elite group. Am I the only one that feels this way? Is it too much to put him in that bracket?

Both were in that bracket IMO. Trying to separate them is a vaguely interesting debate (when not ruined by mongs) but ultimately pointless.
In that era I went along to games knowing that one or both would do something that was worth the entrance money.
Off the top of my head, Henry's goal against Liverpool where he ran through all of them, his backheel goal vs Charlton.
Bergkamp's ridiculous goal vs Newcastle, the hat-trick vs Leicester (both in away games I realise).

Both very special players. </thread>

[BOBN]

Both great players but Bergkamp was the better player imo. Henry had a ton of goals but Bergkamp had some magical goals that I can't forget. Beautiful goals. He created them as well with stunning touches and passing. As much as we talk about Henry getting snubbed for World Player of the Year awards, I feel Bergkamp is a player that doesn't get enough recognition in world football. He's one of those special players and if he hadn't have played for us and played in another league like Italy, Spain or Germany, I think he'd have been talked about now as in the same way people talk about Zidane. The talent was there, but unfortunately, the Dutch never win tournaments and he can't fly for away games in Europe and our team was pretty crap in Europe back then.

I like Henry but I'd say Bergkamp is a genuine World Class player. The magical type that do things you just won't see again. Like Zz, Cryuff, Ronaldinho... he's the one player I've seen play for us that I'd put in the all times elite group. Am I the only one that feels this way? Is it too much to put him in that bracket?
laughable post.

and lol @ implying henry wasnt a "genuine world class player". look up the term world class in any dictionary then get back to me.

[Power n Glory]

laughable post.

lol @ implying henry wasnt a "genuine world class player". look up the term world class in any dictionary then get back to me.

Henry was good but not better than Bergkamp. I wouldn't even put Henry in the same league as Ronaldo (original). Good player but as a all time legend of football next to Zidane, Ronadlinho, Cryuff....I wouldn't mention him. DB10 vision, intelligence and technique was something else. Very few players have it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

laughable post. look up the term world class in any dictionary then get back to me.

It says, 'my face'.

:woohoo:

[LDG]

You'll get the same if you look up "Mong".

[gunnerrrrr]

i hate quoting wiki etc, but the following quote on Bergkamp is superb;


"One night last year some legends of Dutch football gathered for dinner in an Amsterdam house. Around midnight conversation turned to an old question: who was the best Dutch footballer ever? Dutchmen have been voted European Footballer of the Year seven times, more than any other nationality except Germans. Yet Jan Mulder, a great centre-forward turned writer, chose a player who had never even threatened to win the award nor, at the time, a Champions League: 'Bergkamp. He had the finest technique', said Mulder. Guus Hiddink, the great Dutch manager, nodded, and so the matter was settled."

Look at the players they are saying he is better than.....just think about the names.....wow

[Xhaka Can’t]

You'll get the same if you look up "Mong".

Well duh!

[Power n Glory]

i hate quoting wiki etc, but the following quote on Bergkamp is superb;


"One night last year some legends of Dutch football gathered for dinner in an Amsterdam house. Around midnight conversation turned to an old question: who was the best Dutch footballer ever? Dutchmen have been voted European Footballer of the Year seven times, more than any other nationality except Germans. Yet Jan Mulder, a great centre-forward turned writer, chose a player who had never even threatened to win the award nor, at the time, a Champions League: 'Bergkamp. He had the finest technique', said Mulder. Guus Hiddink, the great Dutch manager, nodded, and so the matter was settled."

Look at the players they are saying he is better than.....just think about the names.....wow

That's a huge compliment but that's the sort of level he's on.

[LDG]

I do love Dennis.

Defo my favourite Arsenal player ever.

[gunnerrrrr]

That's a huge compliment but that's the sort of level he's on.

Completely agree.

As much as i love Henry, and he was magic for us and at one point the best in the world, i think overall Bergkamp was a better footballer and an all-time great....that goal against Argentina sums up his magic.

Thats what i hate about modern football, stats, stats and stats....people use stats to say that Ronaldo is as good as Messi or more complete, BS he is just a goal hungry, greedy footballer playing in a team which has complete domination of its league...he takes the majority of freekicks, penalties etc etc

Bergkamp would never do that, he was a collective football player who made everyone around him better...do you really think Henry is scoring half of his goals without DB10 creating the pass.

[BOBN]

Henry was good but not better than Bergkamp. I wouldn't even put Henry in the same league as Ronaldo (original). Good player but as a all time legend of football next to Zidane, Ronadlinho, Cryuff....I wouldn't mention him.
yeah and most people wouldnt mention bergkamp, whats your point? (a couple clogs doesnt count)

the difference between bergkamp and those players (+ henry) is bergkamp wasnt winning games/trophies single-handedly like that. he didnt have that "game by the scruff of the neck" personality/x-factor

where was bergkamp when united strolled to 3 back-to-back titles? (1999-2001). they had the deckchairs out.

[BOBN]

Bergkamp would never do that, he was a collective football player who made everyone around him better...do you really think Henry is scoring half of his goals without DB10 creating the pass.
eh? bergkamp was no big factor by the time henry was dominating. well in decline. the true playmaker by the time henry was on the prowl was robert pires. stunning player.

wright/anelka had bergkamp to thank. henry created goal out of thin air, for himself and others.

[Cripps_orig]

Completely agree.As much as i love Henry, and he was magic for us and at one point the best in the world, i think overall Bergkamp was a better footballer and an all-time great....that goal against Argentina sums up his magic.Thats what i hate about modern football, stats, stats and stats....people use stats to say that Ronaldo is as good as Messi or more complete, BS he is just a goal hungry, greedy footballer playing in a team which has complete domination of its league...he takes the majority of freekicks, penalties etc etcBergkamp would never do that, he was a collective football player who made everyone around him better...do you really think Henry is scoring half of his goals without DB10 creating the pass. Tbf, Ronaldo is better than Messi but that's for another thread for another time

[server too busy!]

One of my favourite memories was that goal Bergkamp scored against Newcastle. Amazing, I still can't really work out how he did it.

[Power n Glory]

yeah and most people wouldnt mention bergkamp, whats your point? (a couple clogs doesnt count)

the difference between bergkamp and those players (+ henry) is bergkamp wasnt winning games/trophies single-handedly like that. he didnt have that "game by the scruff of the neck" personality/x-factor

If people are putting his name up there as the best Dutch player ever, that includes Cryuff and Van Basten. Legendary players. He has that sort of respect in world football but for some reason doesn't get as much publicity. Not to take anything away from Henry, but I couldn't argue that he was the best French player.

If DB10 had played for another team or was linked with a major sportswear deal, he'd probably get more plaudits. But at the moment, he's like a footballer's footballer. :lol: You won't find many critics. I can speak to my none Arsenal mates about the guy and they'd all agree that he was on another level. Henry divides opinion. He doesn't always get the same response. He looked a totally different player for France. I couldn't make an argument for him being The best ever player for France.

[gunnerrrrr]

eh? bergkamp was no big factor by the time henry was dominating. well in decline. the true playmaker by the time henry was on the prowl was robert pires. stunning player.

wright/anelka had bergkamp to thank. henry created goal out of thin air, for himself and others.

What...lol....sorry when did you start watching Arsenal.lol
Ask anyone Bergkamp and Henry was one of the greatest, if not the greatest Prem strike partnership.

I suggest you do some youtubing mate as you obviously have not watched us for that long...lol

But i also agree about Bobby, fcuking immense football player, at his peak one of the best left sided players to play in the Prem, or players full stop.

[BOBN]

If people are putting his name up there as the best Dutch player ever, that includes Cryuff and Van Basten. Legendary players. He has that sort of respect in world football but for some reason doesn't get as much publicity. Not to take anything away from Henry, but I couldn't argue that he was the best French player.

If DB10 had played for another team or was linked with a major sportswear deal, he'd probably get more plaudits. But at the moment, he's like a footballer's footballer. :lol: You won't find many critics. I can speak to my none Arsenal mates about the guy and they'd all agree that he was on another level. Henry divides opinion. He doesn't always get the same response. He looked a totally different player for France. I couldn't make an argument for him being The best ever player for France.I can easily make a case for henry being frances best ever player. he is their all-time top goalscorer, he was their joint top scorer when they won the world cup.... whats bergkamps case for being hollands all-time top player apart from 3 drunk guys in a room rambling about it?

whats all this "If DB10 had played for another team " nonsense. he played for inter milan at his peak. a glamour team in the best league in the world. without eluding to some worldwide anti-bergkamp conspiracy, explain why he not just flopped, but is considered by some inter fans to be their biggest ever flop....

[Cripps_orig]

Henry at Juve :haha:

[BOBN]

What...lol....sorry when did you start watching Arsenal.lol
Ask anyone Bergkamp and Henry was one of the greatest, if not the greatest Prem strike partnership.

I suggest you do some youtubing mate as you obviously have not watched us for that long...lol

But i also agree about Bobby, fcuking immense football player, at his peak one of the best left sided players to play in the Prem, or players full stop.
you clearly dont know what youre talking about tbh. there was nothing conventional about the bergkamp-henry partnership since bergkamp dropped so deep and henry pulled wide the real double act was pires-henry.

if you wanna start talking about asking people stuff, ask the masses who are the best premier league players of all time. first names off the tongue will be henry, ronaldo, shearer....bergkamps name will be an afterthought, grouped in with plebs like keane, beckham, giggs and zola

[Cripps_orig]

BOBN has raised the WUM stakes tbh.

Hes gone somewhere no true Arsenal fan would ever go, critisisng our greatest ever player.

Fair dues to the man.

Its like going on a Jesus forum and critisising Jebus, a hobbit forum and critisising Letters etc

[LDG]

:haha:

http://fullerlegend.hubpages.com/hub/All-time-Premier-league-XI-Football-soccer

http://www.soccernews.com/the-best-premier-league-team-ever/15756/

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Alan-Shearer-Premier-League-all-time-XI-Peter-Schmeichel-Wayne-Rooney-Phil-Neville-Eric-Cantona-Paul-Scholes-John-Terry-and-more-article774646.html

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081113053215AAMmSjI


Massed Asked v BOBN nil

[LDG]

BOBN has raised the WUM stakes tbh.

Hes gone somewhere no true Arsenal fan would ever go, critisisng our greatest ever player.

Fair dues to the man.

Its like going on a Jesus forum and critisising Jebus, a hobbit forum and critisising Letters etc

:haha: :haha:

[gunnerrrrr]

I can easily make a case for henry being frances best ever player. he is their all-time top goalscorer, he was their joint top scorer when they won the world cup.... whats bergkamps case for being hollands all-time top player apart from 3 drunk guys in a room rambling about it?

whats all this "If DB10 had played for another team " nonsense. he played for inter milan at his peak. a glamour team in the best league in the world. without eluding to some worldwide anti-bergkamp conspiracy, explain why he not just flopped, but is considered by some inter fans to be their biggest ever flop....

LOL

Please do make the case.

So you are saying Henry is better than Zidane & Platini..both who i put above him.

Lord that is hilarious.....

People like you and stats...

Lies, damned lies, and statistics......

[BOBN]

:haha:

http://fullerlegend.hubpages.com/hub/All-time-Premier-league-XI-Football-soccer

http://www.soccernews.com/the-best-premier-league-team-ever/15756/

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Alan-Shearer-Premier-League-all-time-XI-Peter-Schmeichel-Wayne-Rooney-Phil-Neville-Eric-Cantona-Paul-Scholes-John-Terry-and-more-article774646.html

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081113053215AAMmSjI


Massed Asked v BOBN nil
ear, did you check these mate?

"Strikers

We have to include the all time record scorer Alan Shearer. Actually, I can’t really think of any reasons not to include him. He was pretty close to being the perfect centre-forward.

Having said that, the selection of Alan Shearer gives us a problem. That leaves only one striking position vacant. Who should have it? Thierry Henry, Ruud Van Nistelroy, Gianfranco Zola, Ian Wright, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Eric Cantona, Denis Bergkamp, Paulo Di Canio, Andy Cole or one of the current crop of Drogba, Anelka, Van Persie, Adabayor, Torres, Robinho, Rooney or Berbatov?

Despite the very strong claims of everyone I have listed, together with the many I have no doubt failed to mention, I cannot select anyone other than the Thierry Henry of three seasons ago."

thats the second link :patrice:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

BOBN has raised the WUM stakes tbh.

Hes gone somewhere no true Arsenal fan would ever go, critisisng our greatest ever player.

Fair dues to the man.

Its like going on a Jesus forum and critisising Jebus, a hobbit forum and critisising Letters etc

And they called me mental

[BOBN]

LOL

Please do make the case.

So you are saying Henry is better than Zidane & Platini..both who i put above him.

Lord that is hilarious.....

People like you and stats...

Lies, damned lies, and statistics......
I just did make the case. its right there in english and everything.

now you make a case for bergkamp being better than cruyff. i'll wait :wave:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Having said that, the selection of Alan Shearer gives us a problem. That leaves only one striking position vacant. Who should have it? Thierry Henry, Ruud Van Nistelroy, Gianfranco Zola, Ian Wright, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Eric Cantona, Denis Bergkamp, Paulo Di Canio, Andy Cole or one of the current crop of Drogba, Anelka, Van Persie, Adabayor, Torres, Robinho, Rooney or Berbatov?
Robinho? Robinho?

...the fuck?

[LDG]

ear, did you check these mate?

"Strikers

We have to include the all time record scorer Alan Shearer. Actually, I can’t really think of any reasons not to include him. He was pretty close to being the perfect centre-forward.

Having said that, the selection of Alan Shearer gives us a problem. That leaves only one striking position vacant. Who should have it? Thierry Henry, Ruud Van Nistelroy, Gianfranco Zola, Ian Wright, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Eric Cantona, Denis Bergkamp, Paulo Di Canio, Andy Cole or one of the current crop of Drogba, Anelka, Van Persie, Adabayor, Torres, Robinho, Rooney or Berbatov?

Despite the very strong claims of everyone I have listed, together with the many I have no doubt failed to mention, I cannot select anyone other than the Thierry Henry of three seasons ago."

thats the second link :patrice:

Of course I checked them.

And there are about 50, 000 different selections. Some include Henry. Some include Bergkamp. Some include neither.

You wanted to ask the masses.

I gave you a broad base.

And your assertions were incorrect.

As is your face.

[Xhaka Can’t]

And they called me mental

'They' still do.

[BOBN]

Of course I checked them.

And there are about 50, 000 different selections. Some include Henry. Some include Bergkamp. Some include neither.

You wanted to ask the masses.

I gave you a broad base.

And your assertions were incorrect.

As is your face.
nope, it was a dishonest and biased search. you kmow fully well henrys name is mentioned more across the board young man.

[LDG]

nope, it was a dishonest and biased search. you kmow fully well henrys name is mentioned more across the board young man.

Actually, and seriously, it wasn't. I googled "premiership best 11 of all time" (or something).

I just bunged in the first few links that were any good.

Shearer picked Rooney :haha:

Shearer :lol:

Awful untalented goal hanger.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

'They' still do.

:pal: ... Oh :crying:

[BOBN]

Actually, and seriously, it wasn't. I googled "premiership best 11 of all time" (or something).

I just bunged in the first few links that were any good.

Shearer picked Rooney :haha:

Shearer :lol:

Awful untalented goal hanger.
fair enough. but yes shearers front 3 was by far the most digusting.

[LDG]

fair enough. but yes shearers front 3 was by far the most digusting.

Quoted.

I win.

/thread

Dennis :bow:

[Power n Glory]

LOL

Please do make the case.

So you are saying Henry is better than Zidane & Platini..both who i put above him.

Lord that is hilarious.....

People like you and stats...

Lies, damned lies, and statistics......

Top goalscorer for France in the 98 World Cup but it's hard to remember any of them. You won't forget Bergkamp's. That was magical and goal of the tournament. Stats can never tell a full story. Respect to both playere but if I had the choice between watching Henry's greatest moments and Bergkamp's, I'd choose Bergkamp every time.

[LDG]

Let's just put this to bed shall we.

It's getting boring.


I think I speak for all when I....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7aq9cEZa7c


Brilliant. Just, brilliant.

:upset:

[Özim]

Bergkamp was fantastic player no doubt about it, great skills and vision and scored some memorable goals.....in one winning season under Wenger there's was one period when he was scoring goal of the season almost every match it was a joy to watch.

I'd personally put Henry just above him though, for all his skills Bergkamp didn't really score enough goals, in his later career he did seem to miss a lot but was alwasy creative.

Henry had lots of flare but also scored a hatful of goals.

[gunnerrrrr]

Top goalscorer for France in the 98 World Cup but it's hard to remember any of them. You won't forget Bergkamp's. That was magical and goal of the tournament. Stats can never tell a full story. Respect to both playere but if I had the choice between watching Henry's greatest moments and Bergkamp's, I'd choose Bergkamp every time.

Thank you, my point exactly.

For example in 2006 Henry scored against Braizil...but anyone who actually watched the game saw Zidane absolutely run the show, he was beyond world class. Awesome man of the match performance.

But prats seems to think goals = dominating games....lol...next we will be hearing trophies mean greatness....see John O'Shea

So just because Henry has scored more goals for France according to one prat on this board he was better than Zidane and Platni..lol!! Great argument

[Kano]

Thank you, my point exactly.

For example in 2006 Henry scored against Braizil...but anyone who actually watched the game saw Zidane absolutely run the show, he was beyond world class. Awesome man of the match performance.

But prats seems to think goals = dominating games....lol...next we will be hearing trophies mean greatness....see John O'Shea

So just because Henry has scored more goals for France according to one prat on this board he was better than Zidane and Platni..lol!! Great argument

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling

[BOBN]

Top goalscorer for France in the 98 World Cup but it's hard to remember any of them. You won't forget Bergkamp's. That was magical and goal of the tournament. Stats can never tell a full story. Respect to both playere but if I had the choice between watching Henry's greatest moments and Bergkamp's, I'd choose Bergkamp every time.
thats fine but the thing is bergkamps great moments were pretty much confined to the year 1998.

henrys spanned 5 years and more and thats being super harsh. in euro 2000 he was the official man of the match in the euro championship final. in 2010 he was still on the prowl, scoring magnificent goals for the new york red bull against yanks.

the striker of the decade.

[BOBN]

But prats seems to think goals = dominating games....lol...next we will be hearing trophies mean greatness....see John O'Shea

So just because Henry has scored more goals for France according to one prat on this board he was better than Zidane and Platni..lol!! Great argument
look what years of tippy tappy has done to us eh? we now resent goals. we are like downtrodden housewifes who resent love. so so sad.

[Boss]

Everything BOBN has said in this thread is spot on.

Henry and Bergkamp were both brilliant players, but Henry was on a whole other level. Scored and created for his teammates, won everything that could be won (bar WPOTY due to pathetic fixing) and ran the show for us for 5+ years whereas Bergkamp only did so for a couple.

Laughable how people spout nonsense like Bergkamp's goals were better than Henry's, that's all subjective and shouldn't be used in a real debate. Henry v Madrid, Liverpool, Charlton, Sparta Prague, United etc were brilliant goals, easy to pick and choose.

People on here are still butthurt that Henry left us to win things, that can be the only reason.

[Power n Glory]

Kids!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Everything BOBN has said in this thread is spot on.

Henry and Bergkamp were both brilliant players, but Henry was on a whole other level. Scored and created for his teammates, won everything that could be won (bar WPOTY due to pathetic fixing) and ran the show for us for 5+ years whereas Bergkamp only did so for a couple.

Laughable how people spout nonsense like Bergkamp's goals were better than Henry's, that's all subjective and shouldn't be used in a real debate. Henry v Madrid, Liverpool, Charlton, Sparta Prague, United etc were brilliant goals, easy to pick and choose.

People on here are still butthurt that Henry left us to win things, that can be the only reason.

Most of the people who prefer Bergkamp, myself included had no problem with Henry going to Barca. I love both of those players and how you can say everything BOBN has said is right when he has trolled by running down Bergkamp is so stupid its funny.

[Marc Overmars]

The one thing we all agree on is that these 2 players elevated our club to a level we couldn't have even dreamt of. It was and still is a privilege to call them our own. There's no need to justify why you might prefer one to the other.

[Cripps_orig]

The one thing we all agree on is that these 2 players elevated our club to a level we couldn't have even dreamt of. It was and still is a privilege to call them our own. There's no need to justify why you might prefer one to the other.

Disagree

Bergkamp took us up a few levels. Henry came in when we were already challenging for titles.

[Ollie the Optimist]

People on here are still butthurt that Henry left us to win things, that can be the only reason.

that has to be the stupidest statement on this thread. Henry won a fuckload with us

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Disagree

Bergkamp took us up a few levels. Henry came in when we were already challenging for titles.

And evelated us to even higher levels tbf.

[Boss]

that has to be the stupidest statement on this thread. Henry won a fuckload with us

Nope. People wanted Henry to stay despite the shithole our club was in at the time and expected him to turn down the top club in the world to do so.

Read the thread in which he left if you cbf and you'll find people posting that they didn't care / supported him etc crying their eyes out.

Same situation happened with Fabregas.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Nope. People wanted Henry to stay despite the shithole our club was in at the time and expected him to turn down the top club in the world to do so.

Read the thread in which he left if you cbf and you'll find people posting that they didn't care / supported him etc crying their eyes out.

Same situation happened with Fabregas.

really? henry wasnt great the season he left us. was injured for a lot of it. he gave his all to this club and he loves it and so do the fans. you only have to see the reaction everytime he has at the ground to see how much he loves us and how much we love him. he left after giving his best to us. so many Arsenal fans were delighted to see him win the CL. but he won everything pretty much with us

[Syn]

Nope. People wanted Henry to stay despite the shithole our club was in at the time and expected him to turn down the top club in the world to do so.

Read the thread in which he left if you cbf and you'll find people posting that they didn't care / supported him etc crying their eyes out.

Same situation happened with Fabregas.

I think most people saying they don't care about Fabregas leaving genuinely don't care that he left. Myself included. I want players who are committed - and though it might be hard for glory-hunters to understand - there are more important things than wanting to count your team trophies. I didn't want a team centred around somebody who didn't want to be here; what we've found recently is that more players are taking responsibility (from Jenkinson onwards) and the workrate going up is clearly visible.

Regarding Henry, being the 'best' is subjective based on whatever criteria you want to choose. In terms of footballing talent, I think Bergkamp was better. I'm not 'butthurt' by Henry leaving for thinking that, and you're being childish for suggesting so. Unlike the Cesc situation, I was of course disappointed that Henry wanted to go, as many would've been, but at this stage nobody would be annoyed with Henry's decision. I think Henry was the better all-rounder but Bergkamp was unique and best at what he did.

In any case, this thread was started about a statue. A statue should honour club legends and those that have contributed the most to Arsenal. You don't need to be the best player to be the bigger club legend. Messi must be close to becoming the best player of all time but if Messi joined us tomorrow, he wouldn't be a club legend automatically. Nevertheless Bergkamp's contribution to Arsenal's success starts before Henry came. There's not much difference between Henry and Bergkamp in terms of ability or contribution. The intelligent observer will look beyond goals and trophies. Pretending that there is a clear right answer is childish/WUMing.

[Boss]

Most of the people who prefer Bergkamp, myself included had no problem with Henry going to Barca. I love both of those players and how you can say everything BOBN has said is right when he has trolled by running down Bergkamp is so stupid its funny.

He's running down Bergkamp in comparison to Henry, which although a bit rude is spot on. Henry scored more than double the goals that Bergkamp did during his time here (226 to 104) and almost matched Bergkamp's goals with his assists alone (104 to 92). Easy to write those stats off if Henry was a goalpoacher like Owen, Shearer etc but we all know he was much more than that.

Bergkamp was a top player, amongst the best to play the game during his time but should have achieved more and doesn't come close to Zidane, Pele, Maradona etc. Henry on the other hand imo was miles better and has a chance (albeit small) to be considered in that bracket.

[Boss]

really? henry wasnt great the season he left us. was injured for a lot of it. he gave his all to this club and he loves it and so do the fans. you only have to see the reaction everytime he has at the ground to see how much he loves us and how much we love him. he left after giving his best to us. so many Arsenal fans were delighted to see him win the CL. but he won everything pretty much with us

Injured for most of it yet still pulled out 10 goals and 5 assists in 16 PL appearances. Overall contribution of 12 in 24 appearances. A conversion rate Bergkamp has only bettered once, during his best ever season for us (1997/98). Henry scored 30+ goals for us five seasons in a row, Bergkamp never reached 20.

As I keep on saying, they're both top players but if you match them up there's only one clear winner and I don't see how any rational, non-emotionally blinded person can't see this.

[Boss]

I think most people saying they don't care about Fabregas leaving genuinely don't care that he left. Myself included. I want players who are committed - and though it might be hard for glory-hunters to understand - there are more important things than wanting to count your team trophies. I didn't want a team centred around somebody who didn't want to be here; what we've found recently is that more players are taking responsibility (from Jenkinson onwards) and the workrate going up is clearly visible.

Regarding Henry, being the 'best' is subjective based on whatever criteria you want to choose. In terms of footballing talent, I think Bergkamp was better. I'm not 'butthurt' by Henry leaving for thinking that, and you're being childish for suggesting so. Unlike the Cesc situation, I was of course disappointed that Henry wanted to go, as many would've been, but at this stage nobody would be annoyed with Henry's decision. I think Henry was the better all-rounder but Bergkamp was unique and best at what he did.

In any case, this thread was started about a statue. A statue should honour club legends and those that have contributed the most to Arsenal. You don't need to be the best player to be the bigger club legend. Messi must be close to becoming the best player of all time but if Messi joined us tomorrow, he wouldn't be a club legend automatically. Nevertheless Bergkamp's contribution to Arsenal's success starts before Henry came. There's not much difference between Henry and Bergkamp in terms of ability or contribution. The intelligent observer will look beyond goals and trophies. Pretending that there is a clear right answer is childish/WUMing.

Being better ability wise means nothing if you don't prove it. Ofc Bergkamp proved his class, but Henry did a lot, lot more (as mentioned above).

Re: club legends, they're both so and will always remain so. My debate was about ability, skill, who's the better player etc and I think I've backed that up well enough. The scenarios aren't so different that it's difficult to compare them (like in the case of Pele/Maradona, where Pele is better stats wise but Maradona won most of his trophies 'single-handedly'). They both played for the same team at pretty much the same time. Henry did a lot, lot better while playing for said team and also performed internationally (in terms of trophies) and with another club (Barca). Just because Bergkamp may be able to control a ball 0.12% of a second faster doesn't make him a better player.

[fakeyank]

Injured for most of it yet still pulled out 10 goals and 5 assists in 16 PL appearances. Overall contribution of 12 in 24 appearances. A conversion rate Bergkamp has only bettered once, during his best ever season for us (1997/98). Henry scored 30+ goals for us five seasons in a row, Bergkamp never reached 20.

As I keep on saying, they're both top players but if you match them up there's only one clear winner and I don't see how any rational, non-emotionally blinded person can't see this.

:gp:

Th14 is the better player. I'd put him alongside all time greats. Part of the reason why he is not looked as highly as DB10 by some may be because he did not stay at Arsenal all his career. Chances are even IF he wanted to, AW's policy of over 30s would have had him looking elsewhere.

TH >> DB as a player
DB >> TH as a loyal Arsenal player

[Syn]

Being better ability wise means nothing if you don't prove it. Ofc Bergkamp proved his class, but Henry did a lot, lot more (as mentioned above).

My debate was about ability, skill, who's the better player etc and I think I've backed that up well enough.

You haven't. And you need a crash course in logic if you think you have. All you are doing is looking at goals but they played different positions and had very different roles.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:gp:

Th14 is the better player. I'd put him alongside all time greats. Part of the reason why he is not looked as highly as DB10 by some may be because he did not stay at Arsenal all his career. Chances are even IF he wanted to, AW's policy of over 30s would have had him looking elsewhere.

TH >> DB as a player
DB >> TH as a loyal Arsenal player

:gp: If only we had on of them now ahey.

[Master Splinter]

The intelligent observer will look beyond goals and trophies. Pretending that there is a clear right answer is childish/WUMing.

Pretty much.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Everything BOBN has said in this thread is spot on.

Henry and Bergkamp were both brilliant players, but Henry was on a whole other level. Scored and created for his teammates, won everything that could be won (bar WPOTY due to pathetic fixing) and ran the show for us for 5+ years whereas Bergkamp only did so for a couple.

Laughable how people spout nonsense like Bergkamp's goals were better than Henry's, that's all subjective and shouldn't be used in a real debate. Henry v Madrid, Liverpool, Charlton, Sparta Prague, United etc were brilliant goals, easy to pick and choose.

People on here are still butthurt that Henry left us to win things, that can be the only reason.

Tbf id say its 1in 10 what i would say were angry at henry leaving, most were happy to see him go, we all knew he had to move on and had a better chance of winning the CL with barca then us, though he could have won it for us.

I think you'll find more were hurt over Cesc Joining barca then Henry.

[BOBN]

Everything BOBN has said in this thread is spot on.

Henry and Bergkamp were both brilliant players, but Henry was on a whole other level. Scored and created for his teammates, won everything that could be won (bar WPOTY due to pathetic fixing) and ran the show for us for 5+ years whereas Bergkamp only did so for a couple.

Laughable how people spout nonsense like Bergkamp's goals were better than Henry's, that's all subjective and shouldn't be used in a real debate. Henry v Madrid, Liverpool, Charlton, Sparta Prague, United etc were brilliant goals, easy to pick and choose.

People on here are still butthurt that Henry left us to win things, that can be the only reason.

aye, just look at the opposition.

meanwhile bergkamps best goals were against leicester and newcastle :sick:

[Cripps_orig]

Both quality players

Couldnt give a fuck who was better than who

We had both and im damn glad we did and better yet, at the same time

/thread

[Marc Overmars]

Bergkamp was a Spurs fan. #justsayin

[Cripps_orig]

Bergkamp was a Spurs fan. #justsayin

What a cunt

Henry :bow:

[BOBN]

Disagree

Bergkamp took us up a few levels. Henry came in when we were already challenging for titles.
if you ask any united fan they will tell you they felt sorry for the rest of the premier league between 1999 and 2001 because their domination was so total. strolled to 2 title defences. bergkamp and arsenal? nowhere to be seen.

[Cripps_orig]

if you ask any united fan they will tell you they felt sorry for the rest of the premier league between 1999 and 2001 because their domination was so total. strolled to 2 title defences. bergkamp and arsenal? nowhere to be seen.Yeah 2nd is a bit shit tbh

[BOBN]

:gp:

Th14 is the better player. I'd put him alongside all time greats. Part of the reason why he is not looked as highly as DB10 by some may be because he did not stay at Arsenal all his career. Chances are even IF he wanted to, AW's policy of over 30s would have had him looking elsewhere.

TH >> DB as a player
DB >> TH as a loyal Arsenal player
and im telling you, he was emotionally scarred by his inter milan experience. once he recovered and was comfortable at arsenal he wasnt going to risk that by testing himself again in a tougher league (at the time) in spain. and no italian club would touch him.

im still waiting for someone to explain why a player who was better than cryuff and van basten flopped in italy btw.

this thread isnt just about henry and the statue. van persies achievements this calender year put bergkamps achievements into persepective imo. thats a so-called second striker who is proving that playing as a forward is playing as a forward is playing as a forward. you get goals and there are no excuses.

[Cripps_orig]

Back on topic

Have these statues been made yet? I didnt read the first post.

Was too busy laughing and still am tbh about BOBNs views on Arsenals greatest player

[IBK]

I think most people saying they don't care about Fabregas leaving genuinely don't care that he left. Myself included. I want players who are committed - and though it might be hard for glory-hunters to understand - there are more important things than wanting to count your team trophies. I didn't want a team centred around somebody who didn't want to be here; what we've found recently is that more players are taking responsibility (from Jenkinson onwards) and the workrate going up is clearly visible.

Regarding Henry, being the 'best' is subjective based on whatever criteria you want to choose. In terms of footballing talent, I think Bergkamp was better. I'm not 'butthurt' by Henry leaving for thinking that, and you're being childish for suggesting so. Unlike the Cesc situation, I was of course disappointed that Henry wanted to go, as many would've been, but at this stage nobody would be annoyed with Henry's decision. I think Henry was the better all-rounder but Bergkamp was unique and best at what he did.

In any case, this thread was started about a statue. A statue should honour club legends and those that have contributed the most to Arsenal. You don't need to be the best player to be the bigger club legend. Messi must be close to becoming the best player of all time but if Messi joined us tomorrow, he wouldn't be a club legend automatically. Nevertheless Bergkamp's contribution to Arsenal's success starts before Henry came. There's not much difference between Henry and Bergkamp in terms of ability or contribution. The intelligent observer will look beyond goals and trophies. Pretending that there is a clear right answer is childish/WUMing.

Unsurprisingly :gp:

[GP]

Syn has owned this thread.

[IBK]

Syn has owned this thread.

Dignified it, even.

[Xhaka Can’t]

He's running down Bergkamp in comparison to Henry, which although a bit rude is spot on. Henry scored more than double the goals that Bergkamp did during his time here (226 to 104) and almost matched Bergkamp's goals with his assists alone (104 to 92). Easy to write those stats off if Henry was a goalpoacher like Owen, Shearer etc but we all know he was much more than that.

Bergkamp was a top player, amongst the best to play the game during his time but should have achieved more and doesn't come close to Zidane, Pele, Maradona etc. Henry on the other hand imo was miles better and has a chance (albeit small) to be considered in that bracket.

Going to have to disagree with you. I saw the change Bergkamp brought to the Club. To say it was revolutionary is not overstating things. A vast improvement and change in style at Arsenal predated Wenger's arrival by a year and it was in the main orchestrated by Bergkamp. I often struggle with the question of who was the best Arsenal player of all time and it is a struggle between those two, but it is the revolutionary change that Bergkamp initiated that ends up deciding it for me.

Neither of the two players we are disgussing need to be denigrated at all - we were incredibly lucky to have both and I will be boring the shit out of my grandchildren in my dotage talking about them.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think most people saying they don't care about Fabregas leaving genuinely don't care that he left. Myself included. I want players who are committed - and though it might be hard for glory-hunters to understand - there are more important things than wanting to count your team trophies. I didn't want a team centred around somebody who didn't want to be here; what we've found recently is that more players are taking responsibility (from Jenkinson onwards) and the workrate going up is clearly visible.

Regarding Henry, being the 'best' is subjective based on whatever criteria you want to choose. In terms of footballing talent, I think Bergkamp was better. I'm not 'butthurt' by Henry leaving for thinking that, and you're being childish for suggesting so. Unlike the Cesc situation, I was of course disappointed that Henry wanted to go, as many would've been, but at this stage nobody would be annoyed with Henry's decision. I think Henry was the better all-rounder but Bergkamp was unique and best at what he did.

In any case, this thread was started about a statue. A statue should honour club legends and those that have contributed the most to Arsenal. You don't need to be the best player to be the bigger club legend. Messi must be close to becoming the best player of all time but if Messi joined us tomorrow, he wouldn't be a club legend automatically. Nevertheless Bergkamp's contribution to Arsenal's success starts before Henry came. There's not much difference between Henry and Bergkamp in terms of ability or contribution. The intelligent observer will look beyond goals and trophies. Pretending that there is a clear right answer is childish/WUMing.

Bullseye.

[latewinner]

Bergkamp is very overrated by Arsenal fans because of how he played. Excellent player stylish but overall his influence on the pitch wasn't great compared to Cantona which made him the better player. And Henry was better than both. We'd havwon all the trophies we won without Bergkamp but not without Henry. And Bergkamp's inability to play in europe is a big negative.

[GP]

Bergkamp is very overrated by Arsenal fans because of how he played. Excellent player stylish but overall his influence on the pitch wasn't great compared to Cantona which made him the better player. And Henry was better than both. We'd havwon all the trophies we won without Bergkamp but not without Henry. And Bergkamp's inability to play in europe is a big negative.

Wrong

[latewinner]

Better than Platini why not???? Some of you are really ungrateful or have very short memories. Platini was good but wasn't that good to make a comparison with henry laughable even with Zidane too

[latewinner]

Also Vieira was more essential than either Bergkamp or Henry, a lot more than Bergkamp anyway. I don't like Vieira these days, don't like his attitude towards us but he was the most important player in Wenger's reign. He gets shafted in these comparisons

[Cripps_orig]

Bergkamp was our best ever player

[Power n Glory]

Better than Platini why not???? Some of you are really ungrateful or have very short memories. Platini was good but wasn't that good to make a comparison with henry laughable even with Zidane too

That ungrateful part is pretty funny.

[Letters]

Bergkamp is very overrated by Arsenal fans because of how he played.

That's generally how I judge a player tbh.

[BOBN]

10 henrys and a keeper = champions league frontrunners

10 bergkamps and a keeper = relegation by march but "didnt they do well" and "everybodys second team" type plaudits

Says it all im afraid.

[Letters]

:yawn:

[GP]

WUMplestiltskin.

[Cripps_orig]

:yawn:

Now i know how you feel like when i go off on a WUM rampage

Never again

Until the next time im bored tbh

[BOBN]

Also Vieira was more essential than either Bergkamp or Henry, a lot more than Bergkamp anyway. I don't like Vieira these days, don't like his attitude towards us but he was the most important player in Wenger's reign. He gets shafted in these comparisons
Main criticism of vieira was that he didnt get enough goals yet bergkamp was allowed to get away with this for years.

People forget/dont know he actually started successfully (scoring plenty) as a proper centre forward (bit like the current rvp) but as soon as he comes to arsenal apparently thats not his thing. actually the "not his thing" started in italy when it was forced to not be his thing, by top class defenders.

Bergkamp = only foward in the world not expected to score goals. nice work if you can get it.

[Letters]

Now i know how you feel like when i go off on a WUM rampage

Never again

Until the next time im bored tbh

This is what the Ignore function is for tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

This is what the Ignore function is for tbh.True but i dont think anyone on here really believes the critisisms of Bergkamp. BOBN would spunk his 13 year old cock if he ever saw him and hes just bored as school is over for the day hence hes only come on now which is fair enough,

Its cute. Who are we to deny kids some entertainment?

[BOBN]

Dont ignore meeee.

Ok cos its the weekend ill confess i was a little bit wumming, but lets be honest he could have been a bit better if he cos be arsed to fly tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

Speaking of which, can mods ignore posters?

[Letters]

Speaking of which, can mods ignore posters?

Yes. Well, I imagine so but I've not tried.
Although probably not a good idea as obviously we need to see what's going on.

[Cripps_orig]

Yes. Well, I imagine so but I've not tried.
Although probably not a good idea as obviously we need to see what's going on.

Thats why i asked.

You guys should ignore me.....

[Letters]

he could have been a bit better if he cos be arsed to fly tbh.

Obviously that's nothing to do with his ability as a player but I have to confess at times I did think "oh just get on the bloody plane you baby!"
I understand he had a phobia but just put something in his milk a la Mr T. That did irk me at times.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Obviously that's nothing to do with his ability as a player but I have to confess at times I did think "oh just get on the bloody plane you baby!"
I understand he had a phobia but just put something in his milk a la Mr T. That did irk me at times.

i think his phobia came from his best mate being a plane crash or something along those lines. understandable really. but he did play in europe. there were games aborad that he drove too. thats commitment tbh

[Xhaka Can’t]

10 henrys and a keeper = champions league frontrunners

10 bergkamps and a keeper = relegation by march but "didnt they do well" and "everybodys second team" type plaudits

Says I'm a mong im afraid.

That is what it says.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Speaking of which, can mods ignore posters?

We can. I have done in the past, but like Letters says, best if Mods don't.

[BOBN]

Obviously that's nothing to do with his ability as a player but I have to confess at times I did think "oh just get on the bloody plane you baby!"
I understand he had a phobia but just put something in his milk a la Mr T. That did irk me at times.

Well admitted.

We really needed some of that dutch magic for some of those tough away matches.

[Mr. Lahey]

Look at the goals, the assists, the trophies, the awards...its not even close. Wenger referred to him as the Michael Jordan of football. Bergkamp was a brilliant player but it sounds as if those choosing Bergkamp are doing so because they prefer his style more.

For me it was a big negative that Bergkamp never travelled away to Europe. I can understand his fear however his impact in the CL is nothing compared to TH14.

[Cripps_orig]

Look at the goals, the assists, the trophies, the awards...its not even close. Wenger referred to him as the Michael Jordan of football. Bergkamp was a brilliant player but it sounds as if those choosing Bergkamp are doing so because they prefer his style more.

For me it was a big negative that Bergkamp never travelled away to Europe. I can understand his fear however his impact in the CL is nothing compared to TH14.Bergkamp won more trophies with us

Hes our best ever player. Goals arent the be all and end all otherwise Shearer pisses on Henry. How many would agree to that?

[Mr. Lahey]

Didnt say it was all about goals did I

[BOBN]

Look at the goals, the assists, the trophies, the awards...its not even close. Wenger referred to him as the Michael Jordan of football. Bergkamp was a brilliant player but it sounds as if those choosing Bergkamp are doing so because they prefer his style more.

For me it was a big negative that Bergkamp never travelled away to Europe. I can understand his fear however his impact in the CL is nothing compared to TH14.
Rvp today scored a goal of bergkamp-esque calibre but the difference is he does it 40 times a calendar year rather than 10. frankly, hes kinda showing bergkamp up a little bit. showing us what was possible. well henry already did that but heres a "number 10" doing it.

the best of the best forwards score goals, simple as that. they dont hide behind any 'im just a creator me' moniker. messi does it, ronaldo does it, ronaldinho did it....pires did it, laudrup did it, bergkamp did it at ajax.....

[Cripps_orig]

:sleep:

[Master Splinter]

:sleep:

Is it unnerving to have a message board doppelganger?

[AKBapologist]

Rvp today scored a goal of bergkamp-esque calibre but the difference is he does it 40 times a calendar year rather than 10. frankly, hes kinda showing bergkamp up a little bit. showing us what was possible. well henry already did that but heres a "number 10" doing it.

the best of the best forwards score goals, simple as that. they dont hide behind any 'im just a creator me' moniker. messi does it, ronaldo does it, ronaldinho did it....pires did it, laudrup did it, bergkamp did it at ajax.....
:goodpost:

[Boss]

Bergkamp won more trophies with us

Hes our best ever player. Goals arent the be all and end all otherwise Shearer pisses on Henry. How many would agree to that?

Henry has a better goals per game record (0.61 to 0.58) than Shearer.

So don't think many would agree to that :coffee:

[fakeyank]

Jeffers is better than both

[Niall_Quinn]

Jeffers is better than both

Drugs are bad. Mostly.

[milla]

Drugs are bad. Mostly.

I disagree. :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

I disagree. :sulk:

You must buy yours from a better place then.

[BOBN]

Henry has a better goals per game record (0.61 to 0.58) than Shearer.

So don't think many would agree to that :coffee:

:gp:

lol @ shearer pissing over henry in any category

[Niall_Quinn]

Henry was the most talented player ever in the PL and a considerably better player than either Ronaldo or Messi - just use your eyes, it's obvious. You have to go back to Zidane before you see that degree of talent and sheer mastery. Bergkamp was the greatest player in the history of the PL though. An amazing talent and an amazing bloke. Cantona was a great player but a cunt of a bloke. Zola was a decent bloke but not in Bergkamp's class on the pitch. Shearer was a great goalscorer, the best in PL history according to the stats. And you have to give the guy a lot of credit for not choosing Utd, unlike that obnoxious cock-dribble Sherringham, who not surprisingly is the biggest cunt in the history of the PL.

[Master Splinter]

Henry, Bergkamp and Pires linking up was probably the most beautiful sight in football.

The great Brazil and Holland sides of the past look amazing in highlights, but in my football lifetime of watching full live games, I can't think of anything better.

It helps that Pires was gorgeous too. :loveblush: :cloud9:

[Niall_Quinn]

Henry, Bergie, Pires - best there has ever been. Seriously, which trio ever got you standing up with your jaw on the floor so often? They never got nearly the credit they deserved. It will never happen again, and footie is poorer for it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Henry, Bergkamp and Pires linking up was probably the most beautiful sight in football.

The great Brazil and Holland sides of the past look amazing in highlights, but in my football lifetime of watching full live games, I can't think of anything better.

It helps that Pires was gorgeous too. :loveblush: :cloud9:

Plus you're a raving homo.

[GP]

Henry, Bergie, Pires - best there has ever been. Seriously, which trio ever got you standing up with your jaw on the floor so often? They never got nearly the credit they deserved. It will never happen again, and footie is poorer for it.

Cesc - Hleb - Rosicky

Enough said