Match reaction: Sunderland v Arsenal - FA Cup

[Xhaka Can’t]

No matter how obvious it was to all but the most delusional optimist that this was coming, it still feels like a knife though the heart witnessing what an embarrassing shambles devoid of any direction, heart and pride this team have become.

[Gubby Allen]

Should've put even more money on Sunderland. After Wednesday, that was free money being dished out by the bookies.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No matter how obvious it was to all but the most delusional optimist that this was coming, it still feels like a knife though the heart witnessing what an embarrassing shambles devoid of any direction, heart and pride this team have become.

This hurts more then loosing to Milan, we tried to night but in reality it really showed that were just not good enough.

[Syn]

There is no direction. We haven't got a manager.

[Letters]

No matter how obvious it was to all but the most delusional optimist that this was coming, it still feels like a knife though the heart witnessing what an embarrassing shambles devoid of any direction, heart and pride this team have become.

:gp:

I haven't felt this sad about Arsenal for a long time.
Really feels like the end of an era and I don't know what the future holds for Arsenal.
Wenger needs to go for his own sake if nothing else. I don't believe this mess is entirely his but he's not the man to sort it out. I'm not sure anyone can but there's nothing to lose any more.

:upset:

[Marc Overmars]

Well there it is, another season down the drain in the most gutless and drab fashion.

[alexander]

Words fail me.

We are looking so so bad these days.

Wenger out. and board. and most players.

[Gubby Allen]

What has the point of this shit for the last 3 years?

Realistically, how does it stop? Wenger's not going anywhere, the board are happy with everything.

It's just half decent stuff until February and then knocked out of all trophies within a fortnight, as soon as the games mean something & are against teams that can kick a ball.

I cannot see anything that suggests that there isn't at least another 10 years of this to come.

[friskyanders]

To be fair though I thought Arshavin looked more mobile with his 18 layers on sitting on the bench than he has for the rest of the season.....

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's ok, we'll show our worth against Tottenham.

I'm expecting Wilshere to post "we so sorry" message on twitter on behalf of his teammates.

[KESSLER]

Not surprised at all tbh

We are just horrifically one dimensional and just not good enough to play the way we do when the opposition parks the bus

[Özim]

It's been coming for years, still sad to see us in such a mess though.......we look so average these days....the trophies have gone, the top players have gone, the good football has good, the fight has gone.....but the manager is still here.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well there it is, another season down the drain in the most gutless and drab fashion.

Did you really expect us to win anything this season though, the writting had been on the wall since september tbh. Its ok when we get 4th it will be like a trophy.

[topgun]

Better get a manager in that can put together a side that can deal with what we saw today because the way things are going this is the section of the PL we are soon going to be scrapping in.

[Globalgunner]

This has been a season for breaking records. Can Wenger survive the most unforgiveable one????. Getting blanked by the spuds in a eason. Lets see. Does Silent Stan even know who the Spuds are...... That might be Wengers saving grace.

[alexander]

Did you really expect us to win anything this season though, the writting had been on the wall since september tbh. Its ok when we get 4th it will be like a trophy.

The fans really need to let the board/manager know that that just aint good enough. If thats good enough for them, I will pay 4th place money for a ticket.

[Newguy]

I'm glad this has happened tbh. A win would have only papered over the cracks. This team is finished. Wenger is done.

[hymppi]

dearly beloved,
as we are gathered here to mourn over the season 2011-2012 we can walk through the memory lane.
we sucked.
we tried.
we gave up.
we were in shambles.
we were kicked out of top flight PL.
we were kick out out of europe.
we were kicked out of FA cup.

let's bow our heads in prayer:

AW out.

[Niall_Quinn]

We made another profit in the transfer window, we have collapsed. A typical season, hardly a surprise. The only difference is I think we have crossed an absolute threshold where the profit taking has damaged the club in the long (possibly very log) term.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Not surprised at all tbh

We are just horrifically one dimensional and just not good enough to play the way we do when the opposition parks the busThey didnt park the bus today and this team isnt good enough to 'play the arsenal way'

[KESSLER]

Arsene should have brought on Chamakh instead of Theo.

Theo was never going to be effective when they were sitting so deep.

At least with Shitmakh we'd of had a glimmer of him getting his head on the end of something

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We made another profit in the transfer window, we have collapsed. A typical season, hardly a surprise. The only difference is I think we have crossed an absolute threshold where the profit taking has damaged the club in the long (possibly very log) term.

:gp:

[cheesy bites]

That's it, I'm done. Wenger has to go.

(and all you fucks saying it took you long enough can go suck off Harry down the road)

[hymppi]

That's it, I'm done. Wenger has to go.


welcome, we've been waiting for you.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arsene should have brought on Chamakh instead of Theo.

Theo was never going to be effective when they were sitting so deep.

At least with Shitmakh we'd of had a glimmer of him getting his head on the end of somethingDid you actually watch the game?

[Syn]

I thought Wenger would last the end of the season, but now I'm not so sure. The board might be happy to let Wenger carry on but Wenger might resign under fan pressure.

As consistently boring as our on-field displays are, things are very unstable at the moment.

A defeat at home to the spuds and I genuinely don't know whether Wenger will stay at the club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

606 two gooners Arguing FFS

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought Wenger would last the end of the season, but now I'm not so sure. The board might be happy to let Wenger carry on but Wenger might resign under fan pressure.

As consistently boring as our on-field displays are, things are very unstable at the moment.

A defeat at home to the spuds and I genuinely don't know whether Wenger will stay at the club.

I hope Wenger has enough in the bank to be able to tell the truth if he goes. If the board get away with this, and Wenger leaving could give them the perfect opportunity to slink away and leave it to Stan, it will be the biggest scandal of all. They need to be hounded for what they have done.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Oxlade's ugly little face after the OG made me sad.

[cheesy bites]

One thing that really stood out for me today was just how long we took on the ball. Song in particular is usually guilty of this.

Holding onto the ball with opponents steaming in, trying to get a last minute pass off under heavy pressure which usually is wayward and ends up starting a counter-attack for the other team, with our player sat arse on the floor moaning for a foul.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oxlade's ugly little face after the OG made me sad.

He made it back there at least. Shows desire. He fucked up, but for the right reasons. He's a genuine talent who won't be with us for long.

[Syn]

I hope Wenger has enough in the bank to be able to tell the truth if he goes. If the board get away with this, and Wenger leaving could give them the perfect opportunity to slink away and leave it to Stan, it will be the biggest scandal of all. They need to be hounded for what they have done.

I think we will eventually find out the truth. But it'll be a while. We might not find out from Wenger if he's in on it - by all accounts, including Wenger's, Wenger is getting paid a lot of money.

But regardless of the money situation, there is no direction at the club. There is no clear strategy on how to play. Players are clueless and confused. A new manager would probably help - even if he doesn't get extra funds. We are pissing away money in wages and not buying well even with the money we have.

[Dennis Bendtner]

One thing that really stood out for me today was just how long we took on the ball. Song in particular is usually guilty of this.

Holding onto the ball with opponents steaming in, trying to get a last minute pass off under heavy pressure which usually is wayward and ends up starting a counter-attack for the other team, with our player sat arse on the floor moaning for a foul.

It is the midfield. They no longer have the ability in mind or tekkers to play combinations or wall passes as we used to. A pub team charging in like that would have been dealt with pretty easily by a Fabregas. That's why we look so laboured and predictable in attack too.

[Marc Overmars]

Before the game I was thinking maybe, just maybe the team would surprise people with a reaction, but no, it was without a doubt the most predictable performance and result you could ever have thought of.

This season was always going to be a car crash after the start we had. Sure, we pulled a bit of form together but it's the same every year, as soon as February comes we are exposed for the gutless and overrated team we are.

We need wholesale changes this summer. The team is going nowhere and frankly I don't give a shit about the remainder of this season, 4th place means nothing to me.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

One thing that really stood out for me today was just how long we took on the ball. Song in particular is usually guilty of this.

Holding onto the ball with opponents steaming in, trying to get a last minute pass off under heavy pressure which usually is wayward and ends up starting a counter-attack for the other team, with our player sat arse on the floor moaning for a foul.

It was shockingly bad showed how we miss Fabregas/Nasri. Players let the pressure of the situtation get to them today they tried but in the end pressure got to them.

[cheesy bites]

I miss Nasri

:ninja:

[Niall_Quinn]

One thing that really stood out for me today was just how long we took on the ball. Song in particular is usually guilty of this.

Holding onto the ball with opponents steaming in, trying to get a last minute pass off under heavy pressure which usually is wayward and ends up starting a counter-attack for the other team, with our player sat arse on the floor moaning for a foul.

Our midfield didn't have the basic footballing talent to cope with the combination of their pressing and a dire pitch. Their first touch is suspect, their vision poor, their ambition missing, their care and attention scandalously lacking. Jack could have played that pitch, his talent would have given him an edge. Players like Rosicky, Arteta, Ramsey and Song are average, so in trying conditions they suffer. Arteta packed it in in the second half today. Another player who lacks bottle when the going gets tough.

[Power n Glory]

I hope Wenger has enough in the bank to be able to tell the truth if he goes. If the board get away with this, and Wenger leaving could give them the perfect opportunity to slink away and leave it to Stan, it will be the biggest scandal of all. They need to be hounded for what they have done.

Asset stripping...the board....a time a place for that conversation but when the team run around like a bunch of headless chickens, that's bad coaching. Last season we could have bought Sessegnon but we didn't and Larsson is a former Arsenal youth player. We spend millions on useless players in wages and it goes to show where our priorities lie. If the Board were in control of this they'd be looking to decrease the wage bill as well but it's going up.

This is about the coach and the fact that he's not up to task. It was his choice to extend Djourou's contract. That's a mismanagement of funds. It shouldn't cost millions to beat Sunderland and it takes a well drilled organised team. The coach has to go. Board room talk for another day. This is about the performance of the team. Looked just as pathetic as the days when Denilson and Bendy were playing for us. Team looks totally different now buys we have the same problems. Common denominator in all this.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Just heard Sunderland were 9/5 ahead of this game.

That was a fucking licence to print money - maybe not as much as the Board got, but collectively, we could have cashed in.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

wenger out.

laughing stock. embaressment. shit.

[Dennis Bendtner]

I miss Nasri

:ninja:

Guy in your avatar would be pretty helpful too. Shame we've killed him.

[cheesy bites]

Nah we haven't killed him. You can only kill players by signing established, quality ones to start ahead of them.

[Joker]

No surprise that we lost, our end-of-season collapse has just started a bit earlier than normal.

Who knows how much worse it's going to get in the last few months of the season, I wouldn't be that surprised if we dropped to 7th by the end.

Wenger has to go, and in an ideal world so would the board and most of the players, giving us a chance to rebuild again.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we will eventually find out the truth. But it'll be a while. We might not find out from Wenger if he's in on it - by all accounts, including Wenger's, Wenger is getting paid a lot of money.

But regardless of the money situation, there is no direction at the club. There is no clear strategy on how to play. Players are clueless and confused. A new manager would probably help - even if he doesn't get extra funds. We are pissing away money in wages and not buying well even with the money we have.

If the absolute, number one, no exceptions policy is success on the pitch- then you have what it takes to win. If priorities are elsewhere then you will be found out. Our priorities haven't been focused on football for a long time. Wenger and the board freely admits as much. First they want a financially profitable operation, then they think about football. We lack heart for the game at the very top, and this has run down through the club. I wonder what a player like Adams would have thought about it, or a manager like Graham. There would have been fireworks no doubt. Having captains that are always leaving doesn't help either. This is a very poorly run club from top to bottom in terms of football. We see the results of this neglect every year. It is usual now. I can't even picture a situation where we might win something of note. Other than the award for efficient accounting, maybe.

[LDG]

Woah. So sad. That's it. End of. Trying to make sense of it in football terms, but that doesn't cut it. The football we're trying to play doesn't work if you don't have the quality of basics ingrained. Such a shame. Gutted to fuck.

[GP]

AST meeting on monday. Should be fun...

[Globalgunner]

A team can only be better than the sum of its parts when they have an exceptional manager, or are exceptionally lucky, See Porto 2004, or Greece with Rehagle or Denmark, way back when. We have the unholy combination of poor to average players trying to play a type of game beyond their abilities. Plus a manger who cannot see the deficiencies of these players and cannot make a strategy that gets the best of their abilities. Wenger is obsessed with playing like Barcelona, with players that would be rejected out of hand by the 2nd team manager. they couple this with an innate weakness that prevents them from stepping up to a hustling side. We were outfought again today. Ferguson may have bad days with United but rarely are they outfought by any team.

[leaf]

usual flat performance for a big game and the second half of the season,surely you play football to play in the big games and most players need calming down before a big game,but not our lot,no movement, sloppy passing and most worringly lack of closing down and fight they do they not want to win or do they know they are not good enough,that was not a reaction but a fucking insult to all our fans all that told me is none of them could give a shit and the manager is incompetent and cannot fire this shower of shit up,fully expect a resignation in the morning before the spuds match or its going to be even more painful and embarrassing.too many premadonnas and not enough players to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in and with a lack of quality there is no chance

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Before the game I was thinking maybe, just maybe the team would surprise people with a reaction, but no, it was without a doubt the most predictable performance and result you could ever have thought of.

This season was always going to be a car crash after the start we had. Sure, we pulled a bit of form together but it's the same every year, as soon as February comes we are exposed for the gutless and overrated team we are.

We need wholesale changes this summer. The team is going nowhere and frankly I don't give a shit about the remainder of this season, 4th place means nothing to me.

Yep from the Injuries to scoring an own goal you knew it would happen, shame we never got one of ours sent off the complete the set.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

there may be trouble ahead....but whilst theirs moonlight and music and love and romance....
LET'S FACE THE MUSIC AND DANCE!

Ah fuck it, let's do some asset stripping of our own......anyone fancy going to the emirates with a crowbar?

[Dennis Bendtner]

We need to spend some money.

[alexander]

DJ, what a fucking joke

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/djourou-you-will-see-the-best-of-me-now

Wenger. Cock.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-it-s-how-we-respond-that-matters

DJ. Prat.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/djourou-we-must-demonstrate-our-quality

TV5 Talking shit.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-we-have-to-give-the-fans-something-back-

This lot can talk the talk, but they sure as fucking hell cant walk the walk.

Dont want to hear any bollocks from these knobbers this week. Train hard and play better you bottling bunch of fuck-tards.

[Globalgunner]

PS. have we EVER won a amtch with that mong Webb in charge. He booked Djorou for a tug on a player for the 1st goal while a sunderland player did exactly the same thing earlier and got a ticking off.

[KSE Comedy Club]

TV's statement is the best.

'We have to give the fans something back'

Their fucking money would be a start.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We need to spend some money.

It'd only be money wasted with Wenger anyway

[Olivier's xmas twist]

DJ, what a fucking joke

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/djourou-you-will-see-the-best-of-me-now

Wenger. Cock.

DJ. Prat.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/djourou-we-must-demonstrate-our-quality

TV5 Talking shit.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-we-have-to-give-the-fans-something-back-

This lot can talk the talk, but they sure as fucking hell cant walk the walk.

Dont want to hear any bollocks from these knobbers this week. Train hard and play better you bottling bunch of fuck-tards.

Thats all their good for Given interviews to the papers and chatting shite. feck the lot off them Over paid overhyped bunch of Twats

[Joker]

This game was another example of how mediocre Arteta actually is. He needed to control the midfield for us, but instead put in another insipid display devoid of any imagination. He plays hospital passes a lot of the time, and even when his pass is accurate, the timing and weight of the pass is wrong. A lot of people were claiming he's been a good signing who "keeps things ticking over". That may be good enough when playing against Wigan at home, but against a decent, competitive side this guy's been shown up completely.

[Gubby Allen]

I miss Nasri

:ninja:

Why? He epitomised as much as what is wrong as the current croc of shite do. He had as little interest, fight or for much of the time talent as these. I don't think he had a decent game in 2012 for us or City.

Bar Cesc & a couple others for the last 5 years, we've just recycled shite really. Shite comes in, shite stays around for a bit, looks alright for a while, then shite and then shite leaves - although for a bit more money, which makes it worthwhile.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Lettuce be real, this is a farce.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html

This is where NQ is underlining the fundamental. It is very telling.

[Gubby Allen]

Thats all their good for Given interviews to the papers and chatting shite. feck the lot off them Over paid overhyped bunch of Twats

I'm keen to see how the website are going to dress this one up & where the positive spin will come from.

We all took ths piss out of that Iraqi PR guy 10 years ago, but the website speaks just as much shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

PS. have we EVER won a amtch with that mong Webb in charge. He booked Djorou for a tug on a player for the 1st goal while a sunderland player did exactly the same thing earlier and got a ticking off.

Dreadful ref, but we still wouldn't have won if he was impartial today. I believe there must e some directive in place that prevents teams like Sunderland turning the game into a farce by aving five players red carded in the first half for relentless fouling. The refs turn a blind eye for long enough to ensure the game ends after 90 minutes rather than 25. Lots of money at stake, pretences need to be maintained.

[Joker]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-it-s-how-we-respond-that-matters

:lol:

[alexander]

I'm keen to see how the website are going to dress this one up & where the positive spin will come from.

We all took ths piss out of that Iraqi PR guy 10 years ago, but the website speaks just as much shit.

looking forward to the specially chosen twitter comments.

[Gubby Allen]

I missed the beginning - what happened with Coquelin's injury, was it in any contact?

[Niall_Quinn]

This game was another example of how mediocre Arteta actually is. He needed to control the midfield for us, but instead put in another insipid display devoid of any imagination. He plays hospital passes a lot of the time, and even when his pass is accurate, the timing and weight of the pass is wrong. A lot of people were claiming he's been a good signing who "keeps things ticking over". That may be good enough when playing against Wigan at home, but against a decent, competitive side this guy's been shown up completely.

He does keep things ticking when the others around him are taking away the responsibilities of him having to do anything but the most basic stuff. When the others go missing, Arteta is exposed. He's no worse than any of the others. He was useless today though.

[Niall_Quinn]

I missed the beginning - what happened with Coquelin's injury, was it in any contact?

No, it was most likely the pitch if anything. But it amazes me how fragile our players are. They can't even run without getting injured.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I hope Wenger has enough in the bank to be able to tell the truth if he goes. If the board get away with this, and Wenger leaving could give them the perfect opportunity to slink away and leave it to Stan, it will be the biggest scandal of all. They need to be hounded for what they have done.

And they will, we'll finish 4th and they will have their profit, More cigars for PHW who will be happy as pie at another succesful season.

[Joker]

We've got to start some sort of protests now. Yes, you may say it won't make a difference, but we can't simply sit around and see the same thing happen season after season.

[gunnerrrrr]

Charlie the Gooner - It looks like you have finally taken the red pill and woken up to the bullshit that is going on at our football club.

What a shocking performance from all accounts, we truly look like a shell of a team....a team made in the new Wengers image, spineless, weak, error prone, defeatist.

[Niall_Quinn]

We've got to start some sort of protests now. Yes, you may say it won't make a difference, but we can't simply sit around and see the same thing happen season after season.

If you start it you have to mean it. It can only stop when the guilty parties are purged, not when they throw a bone and sign a stop gap star. You don't protest to get them to do something, you protest to get them out. It is hard to shift vermin of this type though, they have a powerful weapon. They can punish you by accelerating the destruction of the things you loved all your life. And they ave the media, they can blame you for their crimes and get away with it. So real protest with an end goal is potentially a bloody affair. I have little faith in the denizens of the library to pull off anything significant, except maybe Kroenke's dick when he chucks a loss leader at them.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Charlie the Gooner - It looks like you have finally taken the red pill and woken up to the bullshit that is going on at our football club.

What a shocking performance from all accounts, we truly look like a shell of a team....a team made in the new Wengers image, spineless, weak, error prone, defeatist.

Nah i have known for along time where the club was going, But there is a time when you say enough is enough. Something has to be done, id love for the board to go but they won't so in reality it has to be Wenger even if he is not fully to blame.

Just hope Hillwood and co don't get off scott free once Wenger goes and hope the fans get on their backs too.

Don't even think Winning the fa cup would have changed the mindset of the board, they'd have seen it as a lil something for the fans nout more.

End off the day were in a real shit, no one withing the club can say otherwise maybe for once this may really turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

No point going for tropies when problems have not been addressed.

[Syn]

I have little faith in the denizens of the library to pull off anything significant, except maybe Kroenke's dick when he chucks a loss leader at them.

:lol:

You should write. Seriously.

And you're absolutely right. People will cave.

[Power n Glory]

The midfield was nonexistent and lacked cohesion. Not a fan of Arteta and the second goal was a classic example do why he shouldn't be used in such a defensive role.

[Özim]

PS. have we EVER won a amtch with that mong Webb in charge. He booked Djorou for a tug on a player for the 1st goal while a sunderland player did exactly the same thing earlier and got a ticking off.
Trouble is Song handballed in the box and Djourou went in two footed and should have been sent off, maybe he's not a great ref but he certainly wasn't one sided.

[alexander]

"commited and spirited performance"

Thats what wenger just said. Bollocks you fcuking twat.

[Gubby Allen]

Just heard Wengers interview on the radio.

"Was a spirited performance, schedule was too much, pitches were poor" was the general gist of it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

"commited and spirited performance"

Thats what wenger just said. Bollocks you fcuking twat.

what did you expect him to say he knows his sqaud is broken so was never going to say how shite they were.

[alexander]

what dod you expect him to say he knows his sqaud is broken so was never going to say how shite they were.

the truth. why not?

what harm could it do?

[Özim]

the truth. why not?

what harm could it do?
It could blow the players confidence and ruin our season.

[alexander]

It could blow the players confidence and ruin our season.

well we dont want that now do we.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Just heard Wengers interview on the radio.

"Was a spirited performance, schedule was too much, pitches were poor" was the general gist of it.

It's obvious it doesn't make much of a difference, he was fairly curt about their performance on Wednesday yet nothing particularly changed. Probably doesn't help that we keep having to make substituions in the first half though, he's not that great at them in the first place so having to make changes that early on is only going to go one way.

[yorkshire-gooner]

Just got back from the game, what a waste of time. Our wide men couldn't put a ball in the box all game, or beat the man. We seemed to keep going back to the defence so often which was so annoying! And to top it off, it was ridiculously cold, not a happy gooner!

[alexander]

Just got back from the game, what a waste of time. Our wide men couldn't put a ball in the box all game, or beat the man. We seemed to keep going back to the defence so often which was so annoying! And to top it off, it was ridiculously cold, not a happy gooner!

good on ya for turning up.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

as expected

I think its time to kick kroenke out

[Gubby Allen]

Just got back from the game, what a waste of time. Our wide men couldn't put a ball in the box all game, or beat the man. We seemed to keep going back to the defence so often which was so annoying! And to top it off, it was ridiculously cold, not a happy gooner!

I was midway through typing - where the hell were your from to be back already ... thankfully it clicked in time to prevent me making a twat of myself.

[Cripps_orig]

on the team’s display…

We put in a committed performance and gave absolutely everything that was left in our legs. It was a very difficult game. We had a very unfortunate schedule because we played away in the Champions League then straight away [we played] away again on some very difficult pitches.

We fought hard today. I felt we were a bit unlucky because there was a 100 per cent penalty for us that Mr Webb missed and then the first shot [for Sunderland] was a goal.

Then we had to chase the game and take every gamble and we were caught on the counter for the second goal. We had a lot of possession but didn’t create a lot, which was down to fantastic defending from Sunderland.

on dealing with criticism…

We have to take the critics on board, stay together and face them. There is only one response in our job; stay united, fight and focus on the next game.

on ending the season without silverware…

It is too early to say where it leaves us and what we will do. Let’s focus on the next game in the championship and fight, even if there is a small possibility [of progressing], in the Champions League. We have a big game next Saturday, we lost three players today and we are starting to get very short.

on the next steps…

At the moment it is best to let people talk, criticise, analyse and destroy and on our side it is important to show internal strength and resilience and come out with a strong performance in our next game.

on injuries…

Squillaci was injured. Coquelin is injured. Ramsey is injured.

If that was committed and we gave everything we got, we truly are alwful

[RomfordPele]

Sad thing is how predictable this all was: the season over within the space of a week in February once again. Awful, spineless performance.

It's all going to turn very nasty if the Spuds knock a few past us next week.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Just got back from the game, what a waste of time. Our wide men couldn't put a ball in the box all game, or beat the man. We seemed to keep going back to the defence so often which was so annoying! And to top it off, it was ridiculously cold, not a happy gooner!

We heard you guys loud and clear on TV.

The team were an embarrassment, but you did us proud. :bow:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I was midway through typing - where the hell were your from to be back already ... thankfully it clicked in time to prevent me making a twat of myself.

My first reaction as well! :lol:

[fakeyank]

A loss to spuds is whats needed to spur on change at the club... may be they could teach us a lesson in football. This could be bigger importance than the 8-2 hammering this season. This could be biblical tbh..

[yorkshire-gooner]

Only a hour or so from Sunderland when you put your foot down! Thank god, that journey back was bad enough

[Olivier's xmas twist]

A loss to spuds is whats needed to spur on change at the club... may be they could teach us a lesson in football. This could be bigger importance than the 8-2 hammering this season. This could be biblical tbh..

Yep thats exactky what we need a beating by our rivals.

[notwist]

Actually it seems to me this club really has to go pretty low before it will do something to bring itself up again. Short term pain may be better than lingering ennui, no?

[Niall_Quinn]

Actually it seems to me this club really has to go pretty low before it will do something to bring itself up again. Short term pain may be better than lingering ennui, no?

That's right. Look at most corporate entities these days with their ever declining services, greedy rates, fucked up call centres that take the piss. Customer loyalty is nowhere in the equation these days because it is taken for granted or at least poor performance in that area can be compensated for by state of the art customer acquisition models.

The present board members have their loot safely tucked away, why should they care less what becomes of the club beyond delivering on whatever terms they made their agreement with Kroenke under? And Stan, he'll have a business plan in place and it seems to be based on acquiring Asian and African revenue. There's still enough inertia to allow the present shambles to trade off the back of past glory. That won't last forever but it could last long enough, especially in combination with enhanced revenue from overseas, to deliver Stan a decent return. Then he's out and what does he care?

Kroenke is not a football man. 99% chance says he's here to hoover up on the unrealised brand potential before that brand is tarnished beyond these shores. Point is, for those thinking it can't get worse because sure "those guys" will do something, that doesn't have to be true. It's the blood they're after, not the corpse. I could be reading it wrong but then I think of the possible reasons Kroenke would ever want a club like Arsenal anyway. The prestige? He already has that in the States. Love of the club? We can scratch that away without much thought. He has to be here for the money, what other realistic reason could there be?

So then it all becomes a case of how he will make his money (and he will, one way or another). Will he do it by risking his own money to build a winning team that can compete at the very top? Or will he squeeze the hidden value out of dogshit sponsorship and merchandising deals, take the loot and make back his initial investment by bunging the club at some goon like Usmanov? He's a hard-headed businessman. What do you think his plan is more likely to be?

Where will we be by the time these guys have stopped feeding? We can see how fast we're falling, to the point we can almost predict the date of each fresh calamity. We already know what's happening in 2012, for example. I don't think the money men care where the club will be when they are gone. I suspect they only care about what they can get from it while they are here. I say this because everything we have seen so far matches this analysis.

I doubt we'll even get rid of Wenger before his contract expires, because that would cost extra money. So if Wenger is as bad as most people think and if Kroenke decides to go for milking the club rather than injecting it with steroids, we could be looking at our first trip in even the longest fan's memory to the lower leagues. That's how low it could go. Depends if anyone decides to risk a great deal by coming in to pick up the pieces.

[GP]

Actually it seems to me this club really has to go pretty low before it will do something to bring itself up again. Short term pain may be better than lingering ennui, no?

What do you mean?

[Power n Glory]

That's right. Look at most corporate entities these days with their ever declining services, greedy rates, fucked up call centres that take the piss. Customer loyalty is nowhere in the equation these days because it is taken for granted or at least poor performance in that area can be compensated for by state of the art customer acquisition models.

The present board members have their loot safely tucked away, why should they care less what becomes of the club beyond delivering on whatever terms they made their agreement with Kroenke under? And Stan, he'll have a business plan in place and it seems to be based on acquiring Asian and African revenue. There's still enough inertia to allow the present shambles to trade off the back of past glory. That won't last forever but it could last long enough, especially in combination with enhanced revenue from overseas, to deliver Stan a decent return. Then he's out and what does he care?

Kroenke is not a football man. 99% chance says he's here to hoover up on the unrealised brand potential before that brand is tarnished beyond these shores. Point is, for those thinking it can't get worse because sure "those guys" will do something, that doesn't have to be true. It's the blood they're after, not the corpse. I could be reading it wrong but then I think of the possible reasons Kroenke would ever want a club like Arsenal anyway. The prestige? He already has that in the States. Love of the club? We can scratch that away without much thought. He has to be here for the money, what other realistic reason could there be?

So then it all becomes a case of how he will make his money (and he will, one way or another). Will he do it by risking his own money to build a winning team that can compete at the very top? Or will he squeeze the hidden value out of dogshit sponsorship and merchandising deals, take the loot and make back his initial investment by bunging the club at some goon like Usmanov? He's a hard-headed businessman. What do you think his plan is more likely to be?

Where will we be by the time these guys have stopped feeding? We can see how fast we're falling, to the point we can almost predict the date of each fresh calamity. We already know what's happening in 2012, for example. I don't think the money men care where the club will be when they are gone. I suspect they only care about what they can get from it while they are here. I say this because everything we have seen so far matches this analysis.

I doubt we'll even get rid of Wenger before his contract expires, because that would cost extra money. So if Wenger is as bad as most people think and if Kroenke decides to go for milking the club rather than injecting it with steroids, we could be looking at our first trip in even the longest fan's memory to the lower leagues. That's how low it could go. Depends if anyone decides to risk a great deal by coming in to pick up the pieces.

Made this point in another thread but if Stan really wanted to milk this club, he'd be looking at our wage bill and trying to lower it. Paying over £100k in wages with the bill rising is senseless. Corporate entities that look for maximum profit don't simply sell off their most valuable assets and look to survive. The big banks that move their customer call centres to India or the companies that open up sweat shops in China, do it because they can pay lower wages for workers and maximise profit. We, on the other hand, have lowered our standards in the quality but still paying a hefty amount. That makes little sense and I can't understand why nobody has looked into lowering the bill if they're trying to milk us. It's one of the main drains on the club.

[BOBN]

so how do you think he will lower the wage bill? by selling the big earners (cesc) and the big demanders (nasri) obv.

because if you think he can just shed the overpaid dross (denilson, almunia, bendtner, vela) then youve got another thing coming. clubs just will not touch them.

[Power n Glory]

No idea how we're going to shed the bill but, for starters, maybe we should stop offering players like Djourou bigger contacts when they haven't done any thing to earn it.

We sell Nasri and Cesc and their now off the wage bill but it goes towards waste like Djourou, Park and many other useless players. It shouldn't be on the increase if the quality is dropping year after year.

[Özim]

so how do you think he will lower the wage bill? by selling the big earners (cesc) and the big demanders (nasri) obv.

because if you think he can just shed the overpaid dross (denilson, almunia, bendtner, vela) then youve got another thing coming. clubs just will not touch them.
If we let them go for next to nothing we have a chance, seeing as we have to cough off for their wages it makes sense. Wenger paid these chumps big money and now he can't get rid, but maybe if we gave them away for 100k we might have more luck.

[Marc Overmars]

We'll probably just have to keep on loaning that dross out for subsidised wages until their contracts expire.

No one is going to touch a player like Bendtner on 50k. He was hankering for a move all summer and Sunderland only got him on loan at the last minute because they were desperate after Gyan did a runner. Otherwise I'm sure he would have still been a part of the squad stinking up the place.

It's our own fault, the market has not forced us to pay disproportionate wages, we do it off our own bat in hope these kids have some sense of loyalty to us.

Top players should get top money, even silly money if the market dictates that. I wouldn't care if we gave RVP 150k a week for example.

Kids who've done nothing, absolutley nothing deserve sod all. They need to be given something to work towards and not have it handed on a plate. If they don't like it and they fancy earning more elsewhere, fuck 'em because it shows them up for the type of character they are and those are the people I don't want at the club.

[Özim]

Blame Wenger he's the plank that came up with this policy, he wanted to avoid people feeling hard done by, what a dum idea...seriously some of this guy's ideas are laughably bad (just like the more points for goals system he once suggested :lol: )

[Power n Glory]

It's a stupid idea but the Board are absolute idiots for going along with it. Spineless cowards. Someone needs to put Wenger in his place.

[Marc Overmars]

Yossi Benayoun @YossiBenayoun15
Bad day yesterday,out of the FA cup and not to play at all again..hope for better days

Another pointless signing, although not quite on the same level as Park.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

A loss to spuds is whats needed to spur on change at the club... may be they could teach us a lesson in football. This could be bigger importance than the 8-2 hammering this season. This could be biblical tbh..

FFS so speaks Arsenal's greatest fan! FY a lot of the time I do hear where you are coming from. . . .but any fan that advocates a loss for the as something they actually hope for is. . . .now what was the word. . .ahh yeah - a dumbass!


We may have reached the point of no return already, when it comes to Wenger, but further losses or at least the praying for further losses is pointless and detrimental to the already wafer thin mental strength of the team. . .if the manger is to no longer have the support of the fans, the best we can do as true Arsenal fans is to get behind the current squad, and cheet them on with all our might.

Time to grow a pair FY, and to stop being such a wuss

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If we let them go for next to nothing we have a chance, seeing as we have to cough off for their wages it makes sense. Wenger paid these chumps big money and now he can't get rid, but maybe if we gave them away for 100k we might have more luck.


Doesn't Ivan deal with contracts though

[Power n Glory]

Doesn't Ivan deal with contracts thoughIn one of the AST meetings or AGM meetings he said he consults with Wenger on that sort of thing. It's not done in isolation and he's an idiot for agreeing to it. But as the football expert, Wenger should know whose worth what contract wise and i'm guessing Gazdis takes his cue from Wenger when weighing up valuations.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

In one of the AST meetings or AGM meetings he said he consults with Wenger on that sort of thing. It's not done in isolation and he's an idiot for agreeing to it. But as the football expert, Wenger should know whose worth what contract wise and i'm guessing Gazdis takes his cue from Wenger when weighing up valuations.

Cheers, i knew he Did the deal with barca for cesc (not very well) But i also heard he was involved in contracts so thanks for clearing it up PnG.

[fakeyank]

FFS so speaks Arsenal's greatest fan! FY a lot of the time I do hear where you are coming from. . . .but any fan that advocates a loss for the as something they actually hope for is. . . .now what was the word. . .ahh yeah - a dumbass!


We may have reached the point of no return already, when it comes to Wenger, but further losses or at least the praying for further losses is pointless and detrimental to the already wafer thin mental strength of the team. . .if the manger is to no longer have the support of the fans, the best we can do as true Arsenal fans is to get behind the current squad, and cheet them on with all our might.

Time to grow a pair FY, and to stop being such a wuss

I have grown a huge pair and that is why I believe that our club has come to a point where they have to learn the hard way. Whats a win going to bring really? Papering over cracks! Small time loss for a long time gain is what I am looking at. I hate the Spuds and I hope they never win a game ever again but my feelings towards a change at Arsenal is even more!
I will cheer the team on like no other... my heart wants an Arsenal win but my head says its time for a change and that change will unfortunately come from shocking results like the 8-2 drubbing at Utd, loss to Milan, not qualifying for Europe. This is how I think change will come to the club, may be not your way of thinking but that doesnt make me any less of a fan. TBH, I think you need to take a quick course at 'tough love 101'

[Coney]

He made it back there at least. Shows desire. He fucked up, but for the right reasons. He's a genuine talent who won't be with us for long.

:good:

It was so ironic that he did the own goal - he was competely blameless and is one of the few players who seems to always put in a genuine effort for the whole time he is on the pitch. If the rest of the team each put in 50% if his effort, we'd have won the title by now.

[Cripps_orig]

He made it back there at least. Shows desire. He fucked up, but for the right reasons. He's a genuine talent who won't be with us for long.:lol:

[Power n Glory]

:good:

It was so ironic that he did the own goal - he was competely blameless and is one of the few players who seems to always put in a genuine effort for the whole time he is on the pitch. If the rest of the team each put in 50% if his effort, we'd have won the title by now.

He ran back but wasn't blameless. He lost the ball up field and that led the counter attack. I won't slay him for that but if it had been anyone else, I doubt there would be so much forgiveness. But there were other errors. Song was beaten easily on that counter, Arteta put in a weak tackle then fell over like a little girl, Verms wasn't watching Larsson's run....collective errors.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I have grown a huge pair and that is why I believe that our club has come to a point where they have to learn the hard way. Whats a win going to bring really? Papering over cracks! Small time loss for a long time gain is what I am looking at. I hate the Spuds and I hope they never win a game ever again but my feelings towards a change at Arsenal is even more!
I will cheer the team on like no other... my heart wants an Arsenal win but my head says its time for a change and that change will unfortunately come from shocking results like the 8-2 drubbing at Utd, loss to Milan, not qualifying for Europe. This is how I think change will come to the club, may be not your way of thinking but that doesnt make me any less of a fan. TBH, I think you need to take a quick course at 'tough love 101'

Sorry FY, no need for me to be taking anything, tough love 101 or whatever you want to call it!

The fact is simple, Wenger has already done enough to be shown the door and it is with a heavu heart that I reside myself to the fact that he has to go! and it is not because I think he is a cu#t, or overstayed his welcome, it is because I see no future for the club with him holding the reigns.

I agree with some that he may have been wise to leave earlier, limit the damage to the way some would have remembered him, but he stayed, showing his increasingly negative stubborn side and in hindsight doing no good to the team. No doubt he thought he could change things and I as others did, wanted to believe him. I wanted Wenger to leave on his own choosing, with his head held high but. . .this is no longer the case and even the strongest supporters of AW no longer see him remaining as best for the club.

So you see FY you wish is coming true, the fans agree, the signs are stronger than ever before that this should be his last season, by publicly stating you want Arsenal to lose is simolar to the spolit child that gets the toy cried for but then asks for another.

For me. . .the time is nigh for Wenger to go. . .but never for me to wish the team loses, there is never a time for that. . .

[Power n Glory]

It's a tough one. Nobody wishes the team to lose but you know that if we scrape 4th, nothing much will change. The hint is in Wenger's comments. I get the impression that he won't buy big this summer because he thinks we've been unlucky with injuries. I don't think we'll strengthen, just replace players that are leaving with weaker players. Unless he's shown the door, we will continue down this road and it's like things have to really go down hill before we see any real change.

[Flavs]

My reaction was one of complete unsurprise at the ineffectiveness of this team and its manager. We are truly at sea at the moment and with Spurs and Liverpool up next i can only see it getting worse. The team were clueless, you cant faulty the effort but the huge gaping Fabregas shaped hole in the middle of the park was evident for everyone to see.

We also managed to pick up another 3 injuries on Sunderland's pitch which is just great as well. Can anyone remember us having a fully fit squad in he last 5 years? Or at least less than 3 players injured at any one time?

At the end of the season i would expect RvP and Theo to leave and i would hope Wenger follows them, thanks for all the great times but you are now officially king George and the madness is upon you. I have no anger towards the man, just disappointment that someone verging on genius for so many years has become a deluded, whining and largely clueless old man.

[Flavs]

This team is finished. Wenger is done.

I disagree with this by the way, not the Wenger bit but the team bit. This team is certainly capable of winning things, maybe not the league but we are certainly capable of matching Spurs and United and winning the 2 domestic cups. On paper we actually have a very good team, where we fall down is the application of them.

The set pieces, throw ins, counter attacking, tactics, plan b, c, d, e and f, the tempo, width, style and defensive line are all wrong and have been for 4 years now. The fact we have started changing to this 4-4-1-1 bullshit smacks of desperation and the fact we played Theo in behind RvP rather than the other way around is just plain stupid.

If you put a tactical, man motivator in charge of this lot we would be very, very difficult to beat and keep up with.

[Flavs]

I thought Wenger would last the end of the season, but now I'm not so sure. The board might be happy to let Wenger carry on but Wenger might resign under fan pressure.

.

Yeah cos our club have always listened to what the fans think...

[Syn]

Yeah cos our club have always listened to what the fans think...

Our club might not. Wenger will never be sacked. But he will leave at some point. Yes we're not liking Arsene right now but I don't believe he is some sort of evil nutcase who doesn't care what fans think of him. He is a very proud man and he gets very hurt when he is questioned. As Petit said this morning, Arsene is at the low point of his Arsenal career...things have been bad, but not this bad. And there is a limit to how low we can sink before it's unacceptable. Many would argue that stage has already passed. Nevertheless that 'breaking point' does exist and I don't think it's far away.

I don't think we will lose - but imagine the reaction if we do get beat by Tottenham. And then these are our run of fixtures:

Premier League Arsenal v Tottenham
Premier League Liverpool v Arsenal
Champions League Arsenal v AC Milan
Premier League Arsenal v Newcastle
Premier League Arsenal v Aston Villa
Premier League QPR v Arsenal
Premier League Arsenal v Man City

It's not difficult to imagine a situation where we keep on sustaining injuries and keep on putting in lacklustre performances and suddenly 4th is out of reach with few games remaining. 4th is the only thing left for Arsene; if at any stage it looks like we really won't get there with games running out, he will feel forced to leave.

[Flavs]

Our club might not. Wenger will never be sacked. But he will leave at some point. Yes we're not liking Arsene right now but I don't believe he is some sort of evil nutcase who doesn't care what fans think of him. He is a very proud man and he gets very hurt when he is questioned. As Petit said this morning, Arsene is at the low point of his Arsenal career...things have been bad, but not this bad. And there is a limit to how low we can sink before it's unacceptable. Many would argue that stage has already passed. Nevertheless that 'breaking point' does exist and I don't think it's far away.

I don't think we will lose - but imagine the reaction if we do get beat by Tottenham. And then these are our run of fixtures:

Premier League Arsenal v Tottenham
Premier League Liverpool v Arsenal
Champions League Arsenal v AC Milan
Premier League Arsenal v Newcastle
Premier League Arsenal v Aston Villa
Premier League QPR v Arsenal
Premier League Arsenal v Man City

It's not difficult to imagine a situation where we keep on sustaining injuries and keep on putting in lacklustre performances and suddenly 4th is out of reach with few games remaining. 4th is the only thing left for Arsene; if at any stage it looks like we really won't get there with games running out, he will feel forced to leave.

The only 4 things that will get Wenger sacked are

1, the club continue to be a bit wanky and the season tickets, shirt sales and corporate box subscriptions go down dramatically

2, The fans stage a mass stay away and the team are forced to play in an empty stadium

3, some ridiculously rich A-rab comes in and buys all the shares and sacks him for some pin up, poster boy

4, Stan finds out Arsene has not only been shagging his wife but also his daughters and the family dog.

As none of those will ever happen he is safer in his job than me, and i am pretty much untouchable

[Joker]

I think after the change in ownership in clubs like Man City/Chelsea etc, Wenger seems to be resigned to the fact that we can't win trophies competing against these teams with such resources. Therefore, he has convinced himself that the next target (which is attainable) is simply to get 4th. However, this sort of reasoning is BS, because even if winning the league is difficult, we can at least properly compete for the cups, rather than treating them with disrespect. Moreover, I don't actually think it was impossible for us to win the league in the last 5 years. We were there or thereabouts until about March/April in 2007-2008, 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, but because Wenger has failed to create a strong enough squad in terms of quality, a few injuries and our whole challenge disintegrated. This isn't City's or Chelsea's fault. There have been players available who would have made the difference over the last 5 years, and needn't have cost the earth (like VDV, Parker, Alonso back in 08, etc) Wenger has to take the blame for that. I think he's lowered his ambition, and found City's resurgence as an excuse for concentrating purely on financial matters.

[LDG]

I think after the change in ownership in clubs like Man City/Chelsea etc, Wenger seems to be resigned to the fact that we can't win trophies competing against these teams with such resources. Therefore, he has convinced himself that the next target (which is attainable) is simply to get 4th. However, this sort of reasoning is BS, because even if winning the league is difficult, we can at least properly compete for the cups, rather than treating them with disrespect. Moreover, I don't actually think it was impossible for us to win the league in the last 5 years. We were there or thereabouts until about March/April in 2007-2008, 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, but because Wenger has failed to create a strong enough squad in terms of quality, a few injuries and our whole challenge disintegrated. This isn't City's or Chelsea's fault. There have been players available who would have made the difference over the last 5 years, and needn't have cost the earth (like VDV, Parker, Alonso back in 08, etc) Wenger has to take the blame for that. I think he's lowered his ambition, and found City's resurgence as an excuse for concentrating purely on financial matters.

That's the most sensible post I've seen you make. It's smack bang on.

We could have won the league in at least one of those seasons. Last season, we were by far the "best" team on paper, and all it needed was another exciting signing to keep the lads on their toes.

That said, we can still compete with City / Chelsea / Utd. FFS, people seem to think they're a million miles away, when in actual fact, they're about 2 shrewd signings away from us.

We can complete with them, even with this fragile team, as shown in the league matches against them.

This is what makes it so infuriating.

[Flavs]

they're about 2 shrewd signings away from us.

Sadly Pele and Maradonna aren't available for transfer

[Syn]

That Auclair bloke also reckons we pretty much had the Mata signing in the bag but pissed around and delayed things...maybe trying to save a bit more money. Sometimes it's better to pay a premium of a couple of million and get the guy in a month early. Maybe that's a naive way of thinking in business terms but I think the gain in footballing terms beats that.

I don't think Wenger planned on going into the season having sold Nasri and Fabregas and not having any replacements lined up. He made those "you cannot sell both Nasri and Fabregas and tell people you're a big club" comments a month before the sales. Not sure what happened there - but it wasn't decisive management in any case. Same story off-the-pitch as on it.

[Flavs]

That Auclair bloke also reckons we pretty much had the Mata signing in the bag but pissed around and delayed things...maybe trying to save a bit more money. Sometimes it's better to pay a premium of a couple of million and get the guy in a month early. Maybe that's a naive way of thinking in business terms but I think the gain in footballing terms beats that.

I don't think Wenger planned on going into the season having sold Nasri and Fabregas and not having any replacements lined up. He made those "you cannot sell both Nasri and Fabregas and tell people you're a big club" comments a month before the sales. Not sure what happened there - but it wasn't decisive management in any case. Same story off-the-pitch as on it.

The Gazidis effect

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think after the change in ownership in clubs like Man City/Chelsea etc, Wenger seems to be resigned to the fact that we can't win trophies competing against these teams with such resources. Therefore, he has convinced himself that the next target (which is attainable) is simply to get 4th. However, this sort of reasoning is BS, because even if winning the league is difficult, we can at least properly compete for the cups, rather than treating them with disrespect. Moreover, I don't actually think it was impossible for us to win the league in the last 5 years. We were there or thereabouts until about March/April in 2007-2008, 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, but because Wenger has failed to create a strong enough squad in terms of quality, a few injuries and our whole challenge disintegrated. This isn't City's or Chelsea's fault. There have been players available who would have made the difference over the last 5 years, and needn't have cost the earth (like VDV, Parker, Alonso back in 08, etc) Wenger has to take the blame for that. I think he's lowered his ambition, and found City's resurgence as an excuse for concentrating purely on financial matters.

:gp:

This should stem to some of the fans too, i mean too many were happy for us not to win the CC pr the fa cup, because they were "micky mouse cups", "let the spuds win them" etc.

Its only now were desperate e everyone wants a cup, The fa cup deafeat show me won thing, it don't matter about the teams we have had in the last 6 years the mentality seems to be if its not the league or the CL then their not motivated to win anything else.

Wenger has to take the blame instead of coming out with all thi 4th is king nonsense. he should have won the CC ages ago when project youth started to give them somthing to feel like winners.

The 1st day you walk in to old trafford as a new signing. you feel like a winner, you get excited because you know a medal is on the way even if you have to wait a year. (this has happend for a long time now)

Where as with us (Its Yep they play nice football have nice players, but your not sure when you will win that medal). Cesc said it best last season the club needs to know whether it wants to win cups or devleop kids and it still needs too.

Ambromvic may be a corrupt **** who has bad morals but he is ambitious and knows what he wants. Not saying he is right in sacking every manager who fails to win the cl thats silly but at least its win something or go.

Who on the board has even thought "you know what we have given AW too much run off the field and need to take some off him, no one their happy to let him do every thing but take the flack at the same time.

Danny Fizman must be turning in his grave seeing what is happening to the club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That Auclair bloke also reckons we pretty much had the Mata signing in the bag but pissed around and delayed things...maybe trying to save a bit more money. Sometimes it's better to pay a premium of a couple of million and get the guy in a month early. Maybe that's a naive way of thinking in business terms but I think the gain in footballing terms beats that.

I don't think Wenger planned on going into the season having sold Nasri and Fabregas and not having any replacements lined up. He made those "you cannot sell both Nasri and Fabregas and tell people you're a big club" comments a month before the sales. Not sure what happened there - but it wasn't decisive management in any case. Same story off-the-pitch as on it.

Winterburn said the same thing yesterday on TS, That Wenger lined up a deal and the money was not released in time, thats why he tried to panic bu Gotze on the last day of the window but it got rejected.

Wenger thought he'd keep cesc all in all, i Think he knew the board would never have accpeted Nasri staying and going on a free, so i think he tried to convince cesc to stay when he knew he could not he caved in to pressure (being their friend not their manager mode) and gave in.