Another False Dawn

[Letters]

Has the turnaround this season from the car crash last summer and the awful start a sign of real progress this time? Something we'll build on. Or is it yet another false dawn?

I'm a lot more hopeful this time for the following reasons:


RvP looks like a proper captain and not one who is endlessly making eyes at another club. Yes there will be bids for him this summer but I believe he'll sign another contract and stay.


The Podolski thing sounds like a done deal. A promising sign that we're going to get business done early this summer and not be scrambling around panic buying on deadline day.


We have stronger characters in the team, players who seem to get what playing for The Arsenal is about. I'm thinking Verminator, Jack, Ches and the Ox looks to be one too.


There seems to be a real team spirit at the club, a willingness to fight for each other.


The mental strength seems to be better, 4 games in a row we came from behind to win games recently. We bounced back from the QPR defeat. We were miles behind the Spuds and 2-0 down to them, the atmosphere was turning nasty. Other years I think we'd have fallen apart, this time we didn't; we came back and thumped them and have overhauled them.


There's a real connection between the players and fans which has been sadly lacking in the last few years. This is in some ways the most significant thing but the atmosphere feels different at The Emirates right now.


So...is anyone else feeling more positive about things than for a long time or are we just deluding ourselves and it's another false dawn?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

this has been done to death.

in short: most important summer in years.

[Syn]

A lot of fans (not you, letters) assume a bad run = nothing has changed, and a good run = things might've changed. We lost against QPR and a number of people said "well, back to usual. Shows the previous run was a purple patch or whatever. There are a number of things that have clearly changed from last season (and the start of this). Wenger is at least trying something new - some good, some bad, but we are adapting far more to the situation than we used to.

e.g. you can see Wenger is thinking about the opposition more for his team selection and approach. Benayoun plays no games in between but he's straight in for the 'big' games against football-playing teams. It used to be the case that Wenger would pick the Arsenal team that play the Arsenal way and what used to happen is that Arsenal would get bullied out of games.

We are a very different team from previous seasons - again, not all good. When we used to lose games before, we were often bullied out of the game and concede many from set-pieces. Every corner the opposition had we were cringing. How many can honestly say they don't feel much more confident we'll clear a long ball pumped into the box? When we lose now it's usually down to a lack of quality. Someone else who can unlock a defence through a moment of genius. But it's not through a lack of trying.

For me, the success of this team depends on Van Persie staying and Wilshere coming back the player he was (for the start of next season, obviously). Along with Podolski and maybe a couple of other players gained from removing Arshavin, Chamakh and others, should - in theory - get us challenging for trophies. It's incredible that we have played the season with only one striker.

[cricketsi]

There's probably a reason the board's eternally being divided and defined as optimists and pessimists and for the most part your take on this will follow previous patterns. Obviously that's an over-simplification, nothing's black and white, and so on. I like to remain optimistic with each "false dawn" because where's the fun without hope? Hence, I think we could be on the verge of turning the corner. I think most of the other clubs around us have harder and less obvious tasks in taking themselves up a level compared with us, but maybe that's because I don't focus on them as much as Arsenal.

[Letters]

We are a very different team from previous seasons - again, not all good. When we used to lose games before, we were often bullied out of the game and concede many from set-pieces. Every corner the opposition had we were cringing. How many can honestly say they don't feel much more confident we'll clear a long ball pumped into the box?

When we beat Liverpool we rode our luck but they had...I forget how many corners but it was in the double figures. I thought we dealt with them all comfortably. I am more confident in this lot when it's tight late in a game that they're not going to cock it up.

[Marc Overmars]

We've always played well in periods and been left feeling very hopeful of what might be about to come, but it never happens. I hear people saying things are different now in that we have a good fighting spirit, no mercenaries, better connection with the fans etc...now whilst I'm sure that's all true, it's all said with the benefit of hindsight.

When we hit form after Christmas last year and were looking good in all 4 competitions, no one was thinking about how out of touch the players were and all everything else. We were all thinking that our time might have finally arrived and talking up our chances, just like we are now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we just don't know, history suggests we'll fail to live up to the expectation but then I do tend to agree we have a more of a balanced team now with the right characteristics to succeed.

Fuck knows. We'll see.

Sign RVP up though, otherwise we might as well pack it in.

[Flavs]

this has been done to death.

So's your mum

LOLjkkbai

[Flavs]

The addition of experience and calmness to the team has made all the difference IMO, well that and getting rid of Cesc "slow you down" Fabregash.

We were awesome against Citeh, probably the best i have seen an Arsenal team play since the invincibles era but doing that every now and again wont cut it, clichéd as it is, consistency is the real benchmark.

[LDG]

There are no certainties in football, but in order to win shit, you have to be consistent. It's what SAF has instilled at Utd. They're no better than us as a team IMO, but they slip up far less. Once you have a capable unit, as we seem to have now (a few quality additions aside), all you need is the right attitude, desire and consistency.

Broken record? Maybe. But it's true, else City would be ahead of Utd on talent alone.

So why is there room for optimism? Because we're getting some of the basics right. Start with a solid foundation and build on it.

It relys heavily, as many have said, on keeping hold of RVP. But build on what we have, and we're certainly going to be there or thereabouts next year.

As far as questions surrounding previous years go. Well, it's clear to me at least that players past, didn't have the bottle or attitude, or in some cases, quality.

Nasri - Good player. But no doubting what he's all about, the lesbo ****
Cesc - Heart wasn't fully in it despite having the desire
Denilson - LOL
Bender - LOL
Flamini - Again, about the money
Adebayor - Money
Clichy - Liability
Senderos - Prone to nerves

The list goes on and on.

Most of them were good players when looking at ability alone. But they lacked the mental strength, desire and attitude. And this is where it's different.

[RomfordPele]

We've always played well in periods and been left feeling very hopeful of what might be about to come, but it never happens. I hear people saying things are different now in that we have a good fighting spirit, no mercenaries, better connection with the fans etc...now whilst I'm sure that's all true, it's all said with the benefit of hindsight.

When we hit form after Christmas last year and were looking good in all 4 competitions, no one was thinking about how out of touch the players were and all everything else. We were all thinking that our time might have finally arrived and talking up our chances, just like we are now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we just don't know, history suggests we'll fail to live up to the expectation but then I do tend to agree we have a more of a balanced team now with the right characteristics to succeed.

Fuck knows. We'll see.

Sign RVP up though, otherwise we might as well pack it in.

We've done well (and got a bit lucky) to get where we are. But as everyone has said, Wenger needs to show real ambition in the transfer window, and I'm still not convinced he'll do it. I suspect we'll still be watching Chamakh, Ramsey and Gervinho coming on as our 'game changing' subs next season.

What I can say is I much prefer supporting the team we've got - hard-working and resilient if slightly limited - than the last few years, where we've had teams that were as brittle as they were talented. In that sense, it's a big improvement this year, and it's something we could build on if Wenger shows some bottle over the summer. Here's hoping.

[Cripps_orig]

Feels exactly the same as it did when we went on our good run in 07/08, 08/09, 09/10 and 10/11. It might be said that the run in those seasons felt better cos we did them in a time of the season where it mattered although we fucked up as usual towards the end.

This season however, we car crashed at the start of the season, had False Dawn Part 1 in October where people on here were getting all excited as they are now how the team has changed and so on, fell apart again which ended our CL and FA cup hopes and hit False Dawn Part 2 which unlike the other seasons has come at the end of the season which is too little too late. The pressure is off in terms of winning trophies and whilst some might say theres pressure going for top 4, its not that much tbh. Yes if given the choice id rather finish top 4 than not but that has little to do with CL and more to do with me wanting Arsenal to finish as high as possible. If we didnt finish top 4, would it really bother many people bar the money men which includes Wenger?

Summer of 2010 and 2011 were massive summers after the diabolical ends to both seasons. Wenger failed to do his job during those summers and i with many others have lost all hope in him doing likewise this summer.

Oh we'll buy players for sure but they'll be of insufficient quality needed for us to hit that next level. If Podolski comes true and if we keep RVP then its a start but we need a lot more. We've seen players brought early before and the nothing during the summer only for us to then buy in August after the season has started but by then its too late.

[Flavs]

With the removal of the spaz factor and a couple of signings early doors we will be close to the title next year IMO. With a full pre-season under our belts and injuries permitting the consistency will come and simply removing that Joey Deacon bunch from training alone will improve us no-end.

[LDG]

I wonder who will be AW's number two, as well. Pat Rice is hanging up his sunglasses, and collecting the cones for the last time this season.

[GP]

I wonder who will be AW's number two, as well. Pat Rice is hanging up his sunglasses, and collecting the cones for the last time this season.

Steve Bould, I'd imagine.

I mean, sure, he's got no hair, but at the end of the day, we don't care.

[LDG]

Steve Bould, I'd imagine.

I mean, sure, he's got no hair, but at the end of the day, we don't care.

Apparently he doesn't want it, or so I read :unsure:

Think it was a piece by a former player or something....forget who now, but it seemed pretty legit.

[GP]

Oh.

Ian Wright, then :good:

[Syn]

It should depend on how long Arsene plans to stick around. If it's only a year or two, get someone of decent pedigree to come here and sit round for a year learning the tricks and providing a new perspective on tactics. There would be a many good managers who would want the Arsenal job, believe it or not. Sitting around for a season with a pretty much guaranteed view to step up to the main job would be worth it for them.

[Flavs]

I wonder who will be AW's number two, as well. Pat Rice is hanging up his sunglasses, and collecting the cones for the last time this season.

Bergkamp at a guess

[LDG]

Oh.

Ian Wright, then :good:

:lol:

And, no.

Can't remember....but it was said that Bouldy wanted to continue with the youth squad :shrug:

He would be my pick. Him or Bergkamp.

[Syn]

Btw, when does the club's Emirates sponsor deal run out? How does it work - shirts get changed, what about the stadium name...probably not?

[Flavs]

Btw, when does the club's Emirates sponsor deal run out? How does it work - shirts get changed, what about the stadium name...probably not?

Shirt deal was 5 years and stadium was 10 years

[LDG]

Btw, when does the club's Emirates sponsor deal run out? How does it work - shirts get changed, what about the stadium name...probably not?

2014 is when the big sponsorship deals can be renegotiated I think.

[Syn]

Shirt deal was 5 years and stadium was 10 years

:good:

So we get new shirts next season. CL football will probably get us more money from a sponsor.

edit: LDG - shame. Stuck for another 2 years then.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The stadium debt is close to being under a £100 million now isn't it? In relative terms, that's not much. I'd be dissapointed if we don't try and buy players we want from the outset.

[Flavs]

The stadium debt is close to being under a £100 million now isn't it? In relative terms, that's not much. I'd be dissapointed if we don't try and buy players we want from the outset.

dont worry, selling Van Persie and Walcott will pay next years mortgage

[LDG]

:good:

So we get new shirts next season. CL football will probably get us more money from a sponsor.

edit: LDG - shame. Stuck for another 2 years then.


The Emirates deal was worth £90 million, covering 15 years of stadium naming rights (£42 million) running until 2020/21 and 8 years of shirt sponsorship (£48 million) until 2014.

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/arsenals-mystery-dance.html

[Ollie the Optimist]

i dont think this is a false dawn. there seems to be something very very different about this team. a team i feel closer too as a fan, this season i have loved every minute of it, i feel like i have shared each moment of pain and joy with the team whereas before it felt like we shared the joy but they didnt care about the pain cos they got paid.

from the rumours going around we have made massive steps in siging big names and getting them done early and basically saying to the league, you saw what we did at hte end of last season, we have improved. bring it. and thats something i love to see.

given how we seem to be making early signings, winnning games nad playing well, it would be fucking stupid to even consider sacking wenger now and not giving him next season

[GP]

This isn't a false dawn, it's worse than that.

It's Breaking Dawn part 2...

:ilt:

[Flavs]

This isn't a false dawn, it's worse than that.

It's Breaking Dawn part 2...

:ilt:

It cant be, sometimes our players smile

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Only summer will tell us for shore, but i sense a diffrent feel about this lot and it all seems positive.

Not sure how anyone can say they were postive about this season or going into it. Where as next season seems to have more optimism about it.

So for me its not same shit diffrent season.

[Cripps_orig]

Only summer will tell us for shore, but i sense a diffrent feel about this lot and it all seems positive.

Not sure how anyone can say they were postive about this season or going into it. Where as next season seems to have more optimism about it.

So for me its not same shit diffrent season.Same shit, different summer?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Same shit, different summer?

Depends what happens.

[latewinner]

I don't see the significant change and improvement some of you do. Don't you remember 09/10 and 10/11? When we were actually in the title race there were plenty of comebacks and late goals until the eventual collapse. I'll say it again an amazing run once its too late to challenge for a trophy isn't saying much. But lets see what happens in the summer, I don't think much will change. Podolski may come, RVP will hopefully stay but if we finish fouth especially third Wenger will be pretty satisfied.

[SayNoMore]

Szczensy instead of that prick Almunia, Koscielny becoming our best defender, The rise of OC and RVPs goals are the major improvements, a better defence will mean better results and we certainly have grit. Wilshere still to come is a lot to look forward to. We have filled our first team with characters and they have a stronger mentality. Young GHELs who happen to be extremely talented.

May i add that Wenger after 3 or 4 years has finally stumbled upon the idea that maybe buying from the prem and spending big amounts on highly praised youngsters instead of plucking a nobody from africa is much more effective. Playing actual wingers instead of CMs on the flank of the attack was a great idea however why is Wenger so late to pick up on this?

[AFCFTW]

I believe we're better suited now to the strains of the Premier League. The start of this season was tough but if you look at our results since October, we're actually comparable to City and Man Utd. I understand a season lasts 38 games but there was a lot of negativity around the club early in the season, it was a tough storm to weather but it looks like we've done it. I for one cannot wait for August, with hopefully a relaxed pre-season behind us we should be able to mount a serious title challenge.

[LDG]

I believe we're better suited now to the strains of the Premier League. The start of this season was tough but if you look at our results since October, we're actually comparable to City and Man Utd. I understand a season lasts 38 games but there was a lot of negativity around the club early in the season, it was a tough storm to weather but it looks like we've done it. I for one cannot wait for August, with hopefully a relaxed pre-season behind us we should be able to mount a serious title challenge.

Nicely put, and welcome to the board :d

[AFCFTW]

Nicely put, and welcome to the board :d

Thank you. :)

[Özil's Panoramic View]

A little optimism won't hurt anyone. We are definitely onto something as a team. I think Sagna must be given some amount of credit as he seems to be a very spirited individual, and has managed to rub off on a host of his team mates in a positive way since his return.

I say, if we see out this strong run through to the end of the season and consolidate 3rd place, key players, especially RVP will have high hopes for the next season. There and then, the ball will be in AW's court for him to show some ambition for a change, and make the type of quality signings that will make us real title contenders next season. This should not be too hard a task for 'Mr Frugal', as we only require 4 or 5 quality signings.

[AKBapologist]

Just take pride in the fact that you can go to the emirates and actually enjoy the way the team plays more often than not. All this long termism is pointless.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I believe we're better suited now to the strains of the Premier League. The start of this season was tough but if you look at our results since October, we're actually comparable to City and Man Utd. I understand a season lasts 38 games but there was a lot of negativity around the club early in the season, it was a tough storm to weather but it looks like we've done it. I for one cannot wait for August, with hopefully a relaxed pre-season behind us we should be able to mount a serious title challenge.

:gp:

Nice to see there are some Sensible gooners still out there.

Welcome to GW by the way.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I believe we're better suited now to the strains of the Premier League. The start of this season was tough but if you look at our results since October, we're actually comparable to City and Man Utd. I understand a season lasts 38 games but there was a lot of negativity around the club early in the season, it was a tough storm to weather but it looks like we've done it. I for one cannot wait for August, with hopefully a relaxed pre-season behind us we should be able to mount a serious title challenge.

i saw a stat that said if season started on october 1st, we would be top level on points with united and city (i saw this last week so dont know what it would be like now but was before qpr game) i think we were second but by gd. i cant quite remember but that says a lot about hte quality of this squad taht once they gelled together which they did in october, they are good enough to challenge for the title imo.

[Tipsychubbs]

Don't be fooled guys, this is another false dawn because the overall direction of the club is still pointing in the wrong direction. When no one expects much of the team, out of every competition, trounced by Milan, embarrasingly lose to Sunderland in the F.A. Cup with a terrible performance, things pick up again, suddenly there is a new 'fighting spirit' team is playing for each other, working hard and getting stuck in, 'this summer will be the most important one ever' yadda yadda broken record padda.

Been here before a million times. There is no pressure. 4th place was sewn up last year and they went on holidays early, losing the carling cup, season over, terrible run. Now they were at risk of losing 4th due to a resurgent Spurs, they play well enough to get back in contention, sprinting to a 4th place finish, now possibly 3rd due to Spurs collapse.

Playing for 4th has not been real pressure, just a PR campaign to keep up the status quo, so the soundbites and interviews can keep rolling without mass egg on faces. Now City collapsing in their first title race in yonks and imploding within with the amount of cash spent, that's real pressure when something tangible was at stake. Podolski may look like a done deal, but do you trust a manager who has consistently shown us how tactically clueless he is and who cannot seem to motivate players when the real pressure is on? New signings only go so far. When the direction of the club through the manager and board remains the same, this will always happen. Sprinting to a 3rd/4th place finish, running on the spot, no real ambition to maximise the most of the clubs resources or use it in a better way than unproven young players' expensive contracts eating up resources, promising that next year will be better, next year we will strengthen, improve as a team, grow as a team, gain more experience, challenge higher, yeah right :geek:

I don't buy it and I didn't buy it earlier in the season when the experienced players were brought in and steadied the ship for a while. It was a temporary phase then, and a temporary phase now.

I didn't buy it last season when we suddenly found ourselves the nearest challengers to man u due the poor state of chelsea/spurs/man city, it was incidental and not earned. We we never capable of winning the title, we just stumbled into a "title race" as the default challenger only to collapse predictably toward the crunch, embarrassingly going from 2nd to 4th and having to enter a CL qualifier despite being 2nd most of the season.

We are still going nowhere with this manager and board. Without the 4 spots allocated for English teams where would we be? Complacency has become the goal at Arsenal. We don't have a divine right to win everything, but as one of the biggest clubs in England, the least we should be doing is trying to push ourselves as high as possible, not to be patronized by "beautiful entertaining football" which is not really very "beautiful" at all these days.

We want to play at the highest level, but don't really take necessary measures to stay there. I don't want to play in the CL to make up the numbers, meet a decent team, collapse and crumble predictably. I want investment to me made into the squad to try and win it. Man U and City went out bizarrely early, but they'll keep trying and improving to win it, not rest on their cosy 3rd/4th place laurels and be content with merely qualifying. In fact stuff the CL, can we go back to being to be the best club in our own league first before taking on Europe please? Are we really making the effort to be the best that we could be? To start off the season as actual contenders and maintain that push till the end, like we used to? Before that really happens the board need to be replaced and so does the manager. If that doesn't happen anytime soon, these false dawns and collapses and false dawns and collapses will just keep happening over and over again.

[Cripps_orig]

Don't be fooled guys, this is another false dawn because the overall direction of the club is still pointing in the wrong direction. When no one expects much of the team, out of every competition, trounced by Milan, embarrasingly lose to Sunderland in the F.A. Cup with a terrible performance, things pick up again, suddenly there is a new 'fighting spirit' team is playing for each other, working hard and getting stuck in, 'this summer will be the most important one ever' yadda yadda broken record padda.

Been here before a million times. There is no pressure. 4th place was sewn up last year and they went on holidays early, losing the carling cup, season over, terrible run. Now they were at risk of losing 4th due to a resurgent Spurs, they play well enough to get back in contention, sprinting to a 4th place finish, now possibly 3rd due to Spurs collapse.

Playing for 4th has not been real pressure, just a PR campaign to keep up the status quo, so the soundbites and interviews can keep rolling without mass egg on faces. Now City collapsing in their first title race in yonks and imploding within with the amount of cash spent, that's real pressure when something tangible was at stake. Podolski may look like a done deal, but do you trust a manager who has consistently shown us how tactically clueless he is and who cannot seem to motivate players when the real pressure is on? New signings only go so far. When the direction of the club through the manager and board remains the same, this will always happen. Sprinting to a 3rd/4th place finish, running on the spot, no real ambition to maximise the most of the clubs resources or use it in a better way than unproven young players' expensive contracts eating up resources, promising that next year will be better, next year we will strengthen, improve as a team, grow as a team, gain more experience, challenge higher, yeah right :geek:

I don't buy it and I didn't buy it earlier in the season when the experienced players were brought in and steadied the ship for a while. It was a temporary phase then, and a temporary phase now.

I didn't buy it last season when we suddenly found ourselves the nearest challengers to man u due the poor state of chelsea/spurs/man city, it was incidental and not earned. We we never capable of winning the title, we just stumbled into a "title race" as the default chhallenger only to collapse predictably toward the crunch.

We are still going nowhere with this manager and board. Without the 4 spots allocated for English teams where would we be? Complacency has become the goal at Arsenal. We don't have a divine right to win everything, but as one of the biggest clubs in England, the least we should be doing is trying to push ourselves as high as possible, not to be patronized by "beautiful entertaining football" which is not really very
"beautiful" at all these days.

We want to play at the highest level, but don't really take necessary measures to stay there. I don't want to play in the CL to make up the numbers, meet a decent team, collapse and crumble predictably. I want investment to me made into the squad to try and win it. Man U and City went out bizarrely early, but they'll keep trying and improving to win it, not rest on their cosy 3rd/4th place laurels and be content with merely qualifying. In fact stuff the CL, can we go back to being to be the best club in our own league first before taking on Europe please? Are we really making the effort to be the best that we could be? To start off the season as actual contenders and maintain that push till the end, like we used to? Before that really happens the board need to be replaced and so does the manager. If that doesn't happen anytime soon, these false dawns and collapses and false dawns and collapses will just keep happening over and over again.Spot on

[Tipsychubbs]

It's like what people have said before. A group of people keep pushing you into a well and then pulling you out of it. It's like feeling grateful at being pulled out, only sooner or later to be pushed back in again, and pulled out and pushed in etc.

The people that keep pushing you into the well need to be removed from the situation otherwise nothing changes.

[GP]

It's like what people have said before. A group of people keep pushing you into a well and then pulling you out of it. It's like feeling grateful at being pulled out, only sooner or later to be pushed back in again, and pulled out and pushed in etc.

The people that keep pushing you into the well need to be removed from the situation otherwise nothing changes.

Who pushed you down a well?

Are you a jew?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Who pushed you down a well?

Are you a jew?

:haha:

[Letters]

It's like what people have said before. A group of people keep pushing you into a well and then pulling you out of it. It's like feeling grateful at being pulled out, only sooner or later to be pushed back in again, and pulled out and pushed in etc.

The people that keep pushing you into the well need to be removed from the situation otherwise nothing changes.

I think that analogy works better for Spuds than us.
Year after year of spending big to try and unseat us and failing. This year it finally looked like they'd done it. 10 points clear of us. And now look.

Spuds :pal:

[Tipsychubbs]

But at least Spurs are making the effort to move up a level. The same can't be said for us.

We're expected to fork out hard-earned cash for very expensive tickets, but the current set-up at Arsenal seems to be happy with the lowest common denominator outcome, as long as the money keeps rolling in. Wenger comes out like a sore loser, but even he has sort of accepted the low expectations and doesn't seem to be maximising the resources (those youth contracts I spoke about) in the way that will moves us up a level back into challenging for the top honours; or he's incapable of doing so in this current climate and has become a has-been at the top level. Probably both.

That's why these false dawns work. They get fans believing in the team again, next year, this summer, an opportunity to improve, change things, finally reach potential etc. But it hasn't happened yet. If the effort was clearly being made then I'd have no complaints even if we failed, because we really went for it.

[Underhill and over Grove]

As with most things, the answer to this is more complex as to whether this is a false dawn or not. There are a number of reasons to be cheerful.

We have finally got a potential great goalkeeper in Sir Chesney, in my opinion potentially the best keeper we have had since Seaman, if not earlier.

Our defence is taking on a more formiddable look, albeit Kieron Gibbs still seems to spend an Andertonesque amount of time in the treatment room.

The three man midfield is finally looking more convincing. Arteta is offering more support for Song than he has had for ages, and we have a battery of young defensive midfielders ready to come in in Coquelin and Frimpong. The thought of a midfield 3 of Song, and Arteta, with Wilshere unleashed further forward is very exciting. Rosicky has also signed on, and has returned to being a footballer following his career break.

Walcott is finally starting to look like a footballer with a brain. We also have the mercurial talents of Gervinho, and the young guns Myiachi and Oxlaide Chamberlain pushing to start next year.

RVP is a footballing god.

What we now need to do is to sign up some quality to push the first 11 for their places. If we have a patented injury crisis in key positions, we will crumble again, so agressive action is called for in the transfer market. I would love it if we could get in Cissokho, Hazard, Ben Arfa, Podolski and possibly one more striker to complement what is already a strong team. Surely Wenger has the funds at his disposal to do this, and if not, the imminent departures of a number of high earners will help.

It will only be a false dawn if we fail to strengthen in these key areas, then leave ourselves vulnerable to early season injuries and hangovers from Euro 2012.

[The Verminator]

If we invest like a normal football club with our resources would do, and don't lose our best players then we can go a long way.

Otherwise, it will be the same as always.

[Letters]

i saw a stat that said if season started on october 1st, we would be top level on points with united and city (i saw this last week so dont know what it would be like now but was before qpr game).

From October 2nd onwards Utd have got 3 more points than us, City have 2 fewer points so a table from then on would have us 2nd, 3 points off the top. This is not just a 'decent' run recently, it's long term consistency which only Utd have bettered.

[Power n Glory]

From October 2nd onwards Utd have got 3 more points than us, City have 2 fewer points so a table from then on would have us 2nd, 3 points off the top. This is not just a 'decent' run recently, it's long term consistency which only Utd have bettered.

Until we show that sort of consistency when we're actually competing with Man Utd for the title, it means nothing. It's a good record but we've had Wenger talk about such records in past seasons but it leads to nothing. Sort of like an F1 driver that can get good lap times in practice or Qualifying rounds but on GP day the pressure is too much and they always spin out of the race and never get on the podium. What good is the record if we always buckle when head to head with the big boys?

[Flavs]

From October 2nd onwards Utd have got 3 more points than us, City have 2 fewer points so a table from then on would have us 2nd, 3 points off the top. This is not just a 'decent' run recently, it's long term consistency which only Utd have bettered.

No pressure though is there :whistle:

[Kano]

Until we show that sort of consistency when we're actually competing with Man Utd for the title, it means nothing. It's a good record but we've had Wenger talk about such records in past seasons but it leads to nothing. Sort of like an F1 driver that can get good lap times in practice or Qualifying rounds but on GP day the pressure is too much and they always spin out of the race and never get on the podium. What good is the record if we always buckle when head to head with the big boys?

exactly, those stats mean fuck all

[Joker]

But the season doesn't start from October, so this statistic is meaningless and is the sort of "spin" you'd expect politicians to use. In response to the question, yes this is very likely a false dawn because the good run we've had has occured when the team hasn't been under enormous pressure. Yes, some will say we were fighting for 4th, but in reality that's not the same pressure as challenging for the league, or in the knockout rounds of a cup compeittion. In the later two examples, we HAVE crumbled under pressure regularly in recent seasons, which I think is a true measure of a team's "mental strength". I remember how we put together an amazing run in 2001-2002, and didn't drop any points in the league since the end of February. That is a truly outstanding run of form, that happened just when we needed it, allowing us to win the league ahead of Man Utd. Do you really think a Wenger side would be able to recreate anything like that run of form these days, when the pressure is truly on and Man Utd are breathing down your necks? No chance, we buckled under pressure facing a poor Biirmingham side in the Carling Cup final last season, which says everything.

[Flavs]

Someone needs a WAAAAAAAHmbulance...

[LDG]

But the season doesn't start from October, so this statistic is meaningless and is the sort of "spin" you'd expect politicians to use. In response to the question, yes this is very likely a false dawn because the good run we've had has occured when the team hasn't been under enromous pressure. Yes, some will say we were fighting for 4th, but in reality that's not the same pressure as challenging for the league, or in the knockout rounds of a cup compeittion. In the later two examples, we HAVE crumbled under pressure regularly in recent seasons, which I think is a true measure of a team's "mental strength". I remember how we put together an amazing run in 2001-2002, and didn't drop any points in the league since the end of Febraury. That is a truly outstanding run of form, that happened just when we needed it, allowing us to win the league ahead of Man Utd. Do you really think a Wenger side would be able to recreate anything like that run of form these days, when the pressure is truly on and Man Utd are breathing down your necks? No chance, we buckled under pressure facing a poor Biirmingham side in the Carling Cup final last season, which says everything.

:haha:

[Joker]

:haha:

So you think this Arsenal side can cope under pressure? Despite our abysmal record in cup semis/finals in recent years, and our predictable collapses in the league whenever we've been in contention? Remember, since 2005 we've lost semi finals against Wigan and Tottenham in the Carling Cup, United in the UCL, Chelsea in the FA Cup. We've lost two finals against Chelsea and Birmingham, both in the Carling Cup. We have had end of season collapses when challenging for the league in 2007-2008, 2009-2010 and 2010-2011. That's not the record of a team that can be relied on to "go the extra mile" which is why I think this run of form is a false dawn, and will make Wenger and the board feel justified in the direction that they're taking the club, even though nothing has really changed this season. We still fucked up under pressure against Milan in the Champions League, and in the FA Cup failed to get past a relatively mediocre Sunderland side. When the pressure was on this season, we've buckled again, just like we have in the last 6 years.

[LDG]

So you think this Arsenal side can cope under pressure? Despite our abysmal record in cup semis/finals in recent years, and our predictable collapses in the league whenever we've been in contention? Remember, since 2005 we've lost semi finals against Wigan and Tottenham in the Carling Cup, United in the UCL, Chelsea in the FA Cup. We've lost two finals against Chelsea and Birmingham, both in the Carling Cup. We have had end of season collapses when challenging for the league in 2007-2008, 2009-2010 and 2010-2011. That's not the record of a team that can be relied on to "go the extra mile" which is why I think this run of form is a false dawn, and will make Wenger and the board feel justified in the direction that they're taking the club, even though nothing has really changed this season. We still fucked up under pressure against Milan in the Champions League, and in the FA Cup failed to get past a relatively mediocre Sunderland side. When the pressure was on this season, we've buckled again, just like we have in the last 6 years.


There are no certainties in football, but in order to win shit, you have to be consistent. It's what SAF has instilled at Utd. They're no better than us as a team IMO, but they slip up far less. Once you have a capable unit, as we seem to have now (a few quality additions aside), all you need is the right attitude, desire and consistency.

Broken record? Maybe. But it's true, else City would be ahead of Utd on talent alone.

So why is there room for optimism? Because we're getting some of the basics right. Start with a solid foundation and build on it.

It relys heavily, as many have said, on keeping hold of RVP. But build on what we have, and we're certainly going to be there or thereabouts next year.

As far as questions surrounding previous years go. Well, it's clear to me at least that players past, didn't have the bottle or attitude, or in some cases, quality.

Nasri - Good player. But no doubting what he's all about, the lesbo ****
Cesc - Heart wasn't fully in it despite having the desire
Denilson - LOL
Bender - LOL
Flamini - Again, about the money
Adebayor - Money
Clichy - Liability
Senderos - Prone to nerves

The list goes on and on.

Most of them were good players when looking at ability alone. But they lacked the mental strength, desire and attitude. And this is where it's different.

Guess I'll have to repeat myself :rolleyes:

[Joker]

Guess I'll have to repeat myself :rolleyes:

Fair enough, we'll see next season.

[Flavs]

If i am sitting here next season with us in 3rd having cleared out all the crap in the squad, added Podolski and returned those out on loan who we could do with as filler and we are as solid and consistent as we are currently i will be a happy, happy bunny.

However if we are still paying the dross to sit around doing nothing or have players out on loan simply because we cant get rid of them, are still likely to self implode and still drowning in PR bullshit i will be an unhappy and somewhat grumpy bunny.

Bear in mind we need rid of Chamakh, Almunia, Mannone, Squillachi, Arshavin, Denilson, Park, Vela, Bendtner, and countless "young hopefuls" who clearly aren't ever going to make it,(Watt, Bartley, Hoyte, Murphy etc) its going to be a busy summer.

Decisions also need making around Campbell, Wellington, Pedro and Galindo

[Flavs]

Also, as Pat Rice is retiring at the end of the season I wonder if our next assistant manager will be Wengers eventual successor?

Is Bergie ready fro that in a couple of years? Also if he is to be a manager then what do we do about the flying issue? Bould apparently doesn't want it, Tony Adams is a **** and so is Vieira and no other former players seem to want to be involved so are we going to get a random?

Would a current manager step back to assistant for a couple of years?

[Flavs]

So i guess after opur recent run things are looking a little precarious again, we have a record of "switching off" when t comes to the teams lower down the league and i am genuinely faithful we are coasting in to the summer break. With Spurs and Chelsea both winning on the weekend and the chance that the 4th spot champs league place will get removed due to Chelsea winning the chaps league these are tense times.

Or are they?

[LDG]

We've certainly run out of steam a little, but I think that's a lot down to the run we were on...it can't last forever.

That said, the matches we've played recently have not been the kindest. Chelsea is always tough, regardless, and Stoke is a horrific bloodbath whenever we go there. They seem to up their game for Arsenal. It's their cup final.

We should really be dispatching Norwich and West Brom with ease though, so hopefully we can give it one last push and get stuff sorted over the summer.

If we manage third, it's be a great achievement considering where we've come from over the last year.

[Letters]

Yes, a bit tense although Spurs game in hand is this week, is Newcastle's too? If so then things will be a bit clearer after that.
If they win their games in hand then it's squeaky bum time. If they don't then a win vs Norwich and the St Totteringham's Day bunting will be flapping gaily in the breeze.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think they are extremely tense - I'm not taking the results against Norwich and WBA for granted at all. Now that Theo and Arteta are injured with Van Persie's form dropping, we have pretty much no threat at all up front. These guys - along with perhaps Rosicky have provided the main threat of the players Wenger has been using. Without them, I don't think we'd even be discussing a potential place in the Europa League.

Any well marshalled defence in the EPL should be able to repel the threat we currently present up front. Any result is now up for grabs and I have a feeling we may draw both of these games.

[Syn]

I don't think Arsenal haven't won because the players have been complacent in the last 3 games. Particularly the Chelsea and Stoke games - they were tough games. Poor finishing was the difference in both games between 3 points and 1. Having the Van Persie of a month ago would've been enough. The Wigan game was rubbish, granted.

We're struggling to put the ball in the net atm so I'm not confident we'll do West Brom away. The Norwich game might be ok. Need Bolton and Villa to take points off the spuds. Also need Liverpool to keep Chelsea out at home in the league, but not sure they'll be up for that given the cup final is days earlier.

[LDG]

Will be interesting seeing the results during the week with Newcastle playing Chelsea on Wednesday.

Be nice if Bolton could do us a favour for once, but I have a feeling Spuds are gonna start picking up points now.

We have to finish the season with two wins really....though a spuds loss/draw and a draw for chavs/newcastle means we just have to beat Norwich.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Two wins of course would be great, although I feel four would be enough for third even though mathematically three wins by eithe Barcodes or Spuds could pip us.

Norwich are awful at the mo and WBA is going to be a test, defense could see us through there rather than attack. If we are to go into games with our tails up, I believe Oxo should be starting with Song and Rosicky. Benny did OK but Gerv is woeful at the momwnt (see I said it)

I dont believe Newcastle or Spurs will finish with three wins, two in form pub teamers (Torres and Suarez) should hopefully see to that :pray:

[Marc Overmars]

2 wins in 6, results have slipped at the wrong time as usual. It's still in our hands of course, but it is now a lot more closer than it needed to be. The only saving grace is that our rivals have some tricky games to play.

There's no excuse if we finish 4th after the head of steam we built up, it's done nothing to ally the fears that this team is a bit weak mentally.

[Cripps_orig]

Its been a season of false dawns.

3 i think this season

[LDG]

2 wins in 6, results have slipped at the wrong time as usual. It's still in our hands of course, but it is now a lot more closer than it needed to be. The only saving grace is that our rivals have some tricky games to play.

There's no excuse if we finish 4th after the head of steam we built up, it's done nothing to ally the fears that this team is a bit weak mentally.

RPQ was a poor display. Wigan just outplayed us...I don't think we were weak mentally.

I think it's purely down to a lack of options within the squad. We're knackered, and now have injuries to Arteta and Walcott which compounds the situation.

It's purely down to squad quality, not lack of effort or mental weakness. We have no second options and have been very lucky to have RVP fit all year.

[Flavs]

Yes, a bit tense although Spurs game in hand is this week, is Newcastle's too? If so then things will be a bit clearer after that.
If they win their games in hand then it's squeaky bum time. If they don't then a win vs Norwich and the St Totteringham's Day bunting will be flapping gaily in the breeze.

After Wednesday all teams will have played 36 which should give us a great picture of where we are really at. Disgusted with Blackburn yesterday tbh they just didnt bother against Spurs and look like they have given up already, however Bolton will be a different beat altogether, that added to the news he isnt England boss will hopefully put Arry into full on twitch mode.

[Flavs]

See if it were me i would stick Park on the left now and tell him he has 2 games to prove he is worth keeping in the summer, he used to play there for Monaco and cant be any worse than Gervinho is at the moment tbh.

I would even be tempted to play Chamakh up front against Norwich with RvP on the left just to change it around a bit.

But its Wenger who seems to have no concept of how to change it around a bit so i guess we will stick as is.

[Flavs]

We have to finish the season with two wins really....though a spuds loss/draw and a draw for chavs/newcastle means we just have to beat Norwich.

We cant risk finishing 4th though in case Chelsea win the champions league

Di Matteo has some squad selections to think about bless him, FA cup, needs to ensure league qualification but also can get it winning the chumps league (Although with all the suspensions I cant see it) talk about eggs in one basket

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We cant risk finishing 4th though in case Chelsea win the champions league

Di Matteo has some squad selections to think about bless him, FA cup, needs to ensure league qualification but also can get it winning the chumps league (Although with all the suspensions I cant see it) talk about eggs in one basket

Indeed but in LDG's scenario (if the Spuds lose), only the Barcodes beating Citeh and Everton by about twelve goals each would stop us finishing third. It's basically all dependant on midweek whether it goes to the last day or not.

[selassie]

*Sigh*

I don't why they do it to us? I'll admit I'm very nervous about the last 2 games, the team really have to step up and get the job done.

I'm convinced it will go to the last day, the Spuds seem to be picking up form and the Chavs are in top form right now.

Let's just hope we do it.

[fakeyank]

There are no certainties in football, but in order to win shit, you have to be consistent. It's what SAF has instilled at Utd. They're no better than us as a team IMO, but they slip up far less. Once you have a capable unit, as we seem to have now (a few quality additions aside), all you need is the right attitude, desire and consistency.

Broken record? Maybe. But it's true, else City would be ahead of Utd on talent alone.

So why is there room for optimism? Because we're getting some of the basics right. Start with a solid foundation and build on it.

It relys heavily, as many have said, on keeping hold of RVP. But build on what we have, and we're certainly going to be there or thereabouts next year.

As far as questions surrounding previous years go. Well, it's clear to me at least that players past, didn't have the bottle or attitude, or in some cases, quality.

Nasri - Good player. But no doubting what he's all about, the lesbo ****
Cesc - Heart wasn't fully in it despite having the desire
Denilson - LOL
Bender - LOL
Flamini - Again, about the money
Adebayor - Money
Clichy - Liability
Senderos - Prone to nerves

The list goes on and on.

Most of them were good players when looking at ability alone. But they lacked the mental strength, desire and attitude. And this is where it's different.

:gp:

Signing of Lukas looks to be a positive step for AFC. Signings like these will help us keep a hold of players like RVP.

I would also like to see some positive changes in terms of a replacement for Pat Rice, getting in a defensive coach, an actual Plan B in games etc.

Getting rid of the dead wood aka Chakma, Denilson, Diaby, Almunia, Arshavin would be a good start as well. I'd rather give the younger players chances than have these players turn up for us. Ideally, we'd sign a couple of players when these guys are shipped off!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Two wins of course would be great, although I feel four would be enough for third even though mathematically three wins by eithe Barcodes or Spuds could pip us.

Norwich are awful at the mo and WBA is going to be a test, defense could see us through there rather than attack. If we are to go into games with our tails up, I believe Oxo should be starting with Song and Rosicky. Benny did OK but Gerv is woeful at the momwnt (see I said it)

I dont believe Newcastle or Spurs will finish with three wins, two in form pub teamers (Torres and Suarez) should hopefully see to that :pray:

:gp:

All we can do is Hope for the best mid week and beat Nowrich.

Then hope to get something from the las game.

WBA have nout to play for so they will be more relaxed in the last game its just how we play.

[Gubby Allen]

This season in a way has taught us absolutely nothing - good or bad, as you could argue that we have not played one single match with any pressure or real significance to it.

Of course, the Milan games were huge, both of them in a way, the Spurs game has proved to be an important one, both Chelsea games too.

But we have games which decide 4th every season, which we generally do well in, we'll always have important local derbies that will count in the C.L race and we will almost always have a C.L second round tie, which naturally will be pressured.

We haven't had any games that are outside of pressure & consequence not experienced every season. In not one cup game were we playing for a trophy or even a clear run at one, had we beat Milan it was a QF V Barcelona, look who was left in the FA Cup SF's and when we went out were no more than 4th favourites. We were out of the title race by September.

We seemed to have improved mentally insofar as we don't look like we're sure to toss away a 3 goal lead as soon as we concede one, nor get bullied in game like Stoke like we used to, so maybe had we had one of those games we'd have been better than the last few years, but on the flip side it may have confirmed yet another false dawn.

Also, don't ignore the fact that since February we've more or less played once a week and when games come twice a week is when we struggle, which is another factor which doesn't help analyse anything.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We had no big games because the start was horrific meaning we were out of it before an important or pivotal game was played. But there were some important battles which in the main, we won. And we did recover credibly from that start where the wheels really could have come off spectacularly.

[Syn]

Also, don't ignore the fact that since February we've more or less played once a week and when games come twice a week is when we struggle, which is another factor which doesn't help analyse anything.

I think this is an important point.

But the way I look at it is that - this squad isn't capable of challenging on all fronts. We've had stronger squads than this in previous years and failed. We knew from the start that this squad is limited. We've effectively played the season with 1 striker. You can't do that if you want to challenge at the highest level.

Football isn't played on paper but IF we finish 3rd in the league, I think that's a decent achievement for a squad of this quality. Adding a couple of quality players who can score goals (with, hopefully, a Wilshere recovery and Oxlade pushing on next season) will raise the ceiling for us. At the moment, the ceiling isn't very high and I think we've done about as well as we could have.

[fakeyank]

I think we should re-sign Flamini.. I hear he is out of contract and he is still pretty young. Good back up to Song IMO.

[Cripps_orig]

If Flamini is as good as he was when he was first here then a Must Get he is

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think we should re-sign Flamini.. I hear he is out of contract and he is still pretty young. Good back up to Song IMO.

He's 28, and if he can't get a game with Milan who's players are mostly Old men then something must be wrong with him.

[Cripps_orig]

Milan are like 47 million more times better than us as we seen this season.

He might not get in to their team but he'd walk in to ours

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think we should re-sign Flamini.. I hear he is out of contract and he is still pretty young. Good back up to Song IMO.

We should be setting our sights higher than that. He can't even get in to the Milan team.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think we should re-sign Flamini.. I hear he is out of contract and he is still pretty young. Good back up to Song IMO.

why? we have coqualin as back up to song. in the games he has played he has displayed amazing talent. why get a has been when we dont need too

[cricketsi]

I think we should re-sign Flamini.. I hear he is out of contract and he is still pretty young. Good back up to Song IMO.Owen Hargreaves will be available again in the summer. Perhaps you'd still love us to sign him? ;)

[fakeyank]

Owen Hargreaves will be available again in the summer. Perhaps you'd still love us to sign him? ;)

:lol:

Sure, why not? Not going to be worse than Diaby tbh and at least on a pay as you play deal.

[fakeyank]

why? we have coqualin as back up to song. in the games he has played he has displayed amazing talent. why get a has been when we dont need too

Coq is young and I'd have someone who has proven himself with us and most importantly, he will be free! I know he is not getting into the Milan team but their playing style does not suit his hustle-bustle style of play. If he can rediscover 80% of 07/08 season, he will be a good cover for Song. And again, he is free, so why not?! I would rather we depend on him than Diaby or Denilson.

[WMUG]

Coq is young and I'd have someone who has proven himself with us and most importantly, he will be free! I know he is not getting into the Milan team but their playing style does not suit his hustle-bustle style of play. If he can rediscover 80% of 07/08 season, he will be a good cover for Song. And again, he is free, so why not?! I would rather we depend on him than Diaby or Denilson.You do realise that free agents are far from free, and that they take what would've been a transfer fee in a sign on fee? And then the wages?

We don't need Flamini. End of.

[Marc Overmars]

Like Hleb, Flamini also fucked off at the first opportunity. Fuck them, they're nothing players now and it serves them right.

[Flavs]

I think we should re-sign Flamini.. I hear he is out of contract and he is still pretty young. Good back up to Song IMO.

I would prefer we stuck with Le Coq and King Kong Frimpong personally.

Coquelin in particular looks quality

[Ralpheroo72]

M'Vila has been arrested for punching a 17 year old in Rennes.

[V-Pig]

We've all been there.

[Kano]

i've never been to Rennes.

[GP]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19815106.jpg

[Flavs]

M'Vila has been arrested for punching a 17 year old in Rennes.

Weekly for me :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

Sounds like he's desperate to come to England. Sign him up.

[Marc Overmars]

What a GHEL.

Must get now.