If we finish 3rd Wenger is the best manager in the league

[Grebbo]

(Except for that bastard Fergie).

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Kinda makes you think that he's not that shit after all.

[Marc Overmars]

Only Fergie is better than him in the Prem. He probably would have won something with this lot in the past 7 years.

He's not a shit manager by any stretch and it's ridiculous to suggest so. The issue is whether he is good enough to win trophies in the current footballing climate, and of course the next step for the club is to land some silverware.

[Letters]

It goes;

Fergie
Wenger






Everyone else.

The idea that Wenger is a bumbling idiot and anyone could walk in and we'd be winning trophies left, right and centre is laughable.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

In the Premier League? Probably not, right now anyway (save for Ferguson of course). I wouldn't mind taking a chance on either Brendan Rodgers or Paul Lambert after he goes though, both of those have taken the time to learn things from playing or coaching in other countries.

I wouldn't say getting us to third is a better achievement than Paul Lambert taking Norwich to the top half after two successive promotions though but third is the best we could have hoped for given how things started off. I'd have liked us to have done more in the FA Cup but maybe that would've contributed to halting our league form.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah Lambert has done an amazing job, manager of the year for sure. Someone young and with the right philosophy would be ideal for us after Wenger goes, Rogers and Lambert both fit the bill.

[cricketsi]

In the Premier League? Probably not, right now anyway (save for Ferguson of course). I wouldn't mind taking a chance on either Brendan Rodgers or Paul Lambert after he goes though, both of those have taken the time to learn things from playing or coaching in other countries. I wouldn't say getting us to third is a better achievement than Paul Lambert taking Norwich to the top half after two successive promotions though but third is the best we could have hoped for given how things started off. I'd have liked us to have done more in the FA Cup but maybe that would've contributed to halting our league form.Has Rodgers coached in another country? Not according to Wiki, unless you're counting Wales! Not quite convinced yet. David Moyes has consistently been the only PL manager I'd be happy to see taking over from Arsenal, but I wouldn't swap Arsene for him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Has Rodgers coached in another country? Not according to Wiki, unless you're counting Wales! Not quite convinced yet. David Moyes has consistently been the only PL manager I'd be happy to see taking over from Arsenal, but I wouldn't swap Arsene for him.

Yeah, he has. Not with a club but he has been there and learnt things, he said he learnt from Barcelona when he was travelling in Spain (he said all this on Goals on Sunday not so long ago).

[Cripps_orig]

(Except for that bastard Fergie).

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Kinda makes you think that he's not that shit after all.

Yes

Yes

Not that shit but a bit shit and a bit shit isnt good enough for Arsenal

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol:

straight to the point as usual

[LDG]

:lol:

straight to the nonsensical WUMBO as usual

:gp:

[Grebbo]

In the Premier League? Probably not, right now anyway (save for Ferguson of course). I wouldn't mind taking a chance on either Brendan Rodgers or Paul Lambert after he goes though, both of those have taken the time to learn things from playing or coaching in other countries.

Pah. I remember George Burley finishing 5th with Ipswich in his first season after getting promoted. Look how that turned out.

Brendan Rodgers is typical newbie hype. Swansea played that style before Rodgers turned up. Let's see how he does next season. All this fancy tippy tappy football with no end product reminds me of another team who, up until recently, were lauded for playing the most attractive football in the land. That soon turned in to "all possession no end product/no plan B/haven't won anything etc".

Paul Lambert though is an interesting one. Certainly done an excellent job. Worth keeping an eye on him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pah. I remember George Burley finishing 5th with Ipswich in his first season after getting promoted. Look how that turned out.

Brendan Rodgers is typical newbie hype. Swansea played that style before Rodgers turned up. Let's see how he does next season. All this fancy tippy tappy football with no end product reminds me of another team who, up until recently, were lauded for playing the most attractive football in the land. That soon turned in to "all possession no end product/no plan B/haven't won anything etc".

Paul Lambert though is an interesting one. Certainly done an excellent job. Worth keeping an eye on him.

Sure but I've already said I wouldn't swap Wenger and Rodgers right now, Rodgers is still finding his way and isn't in to his 40's yet. I know Martinez was the guy who 'started' that style at Swansea but Rodgers got them in to the Premier League (granted Martinez got them promoted from League One).

We haven't failed to win trophies because of that style of football, surely it is the mental aspect that has been key? In any case, whatever our 'style' is now we haven't won anything again so what difference does it make whether it's 'tippy tappy' or kick and rush? For me, it's the style of football that once you have the right players for, is very difficult to get the better of, especially in a league where that style would not be the norm.

Anyway, I hear Rodgers talk about football and I'm impressed. In the same way I was impressed when I hear Wenger talk about football too. The main point I was making is that in the future there could well be viable alternatives from this league.

[Niall_Quinn]

Song is always an option if Wenger goes.

[Syn]

Song is always an option if Wenger goes.

:lol:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Song is always an option if Wenger goes.:haha:

[latewinner]

In the Premier League? Probably not, right now anyway (save for Ferguson of course). I wouldn't mind taking a chance on either Brendan Rodgers or Paul Lambert after he goes though, both of those have taken the time to learn things from playing or coaching in other countries.

I wouldn't say getting us to third is a better achievement than Paul Lambert taking Norwich to the top half after two successive promotions though but third is the best we could have hoped for given how things started off. I'd have liked us to have done more in the FA Cup but maybe that would've contributed to halting our league form.

Lambert has something about him I don't see in rodgers. Rodgers fells like a flash in the pan but Lambert looks like he could do well at a club like us, Liverpool or spurs. I think he has more potential than Moyes. But I'm probably wrong

[Olivier's xmas twist]

(Except for that bastard Fergie).

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Kinda makes you think that he's not that shit after all.

2nd best after Fergie tbh depiste some posters calling him rubbsish past it etc.

Had it not been for our bad start we still be up there and even though we have not won nout for 7 seasons we have had the palyers to do it,

The stability and exprience he brings is vital tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

Martinez is free this summer apparently after he decided not to renew his contract.

He plays good football.

Get him in

[latewinner]

Wenger being the second best manager in the league after Ferguson was never in doubt but he shouldn't be applauded for this season and its not finished yet. If Pardew get fourth with Newcastle without a doubt he should be manager of the season.

[Cripps_orig]

Off on a tangent here (CK :bow:) but it would be funny as fuck if Newcastle get 4th and Pardew gets the England job meaning Harrys and Spuds collapse was all for nothing

[selassie]

(Except for that bastard Fergie).

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Kinda makes you think that he's not that shit after all.

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

I'd swap him for Fergie, nobody else.

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Fergie would, Mourinho, possibly Hiddink, I even think Klopp maybe able to.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger being the second best manager in the league after Ferguson was never in doubt but he shouldn't be applauded for this season and its not finished yet. If Pardew get fourth with Newcastle without a doubt he should be manager of the season.

This, and this is why fans are frustated, some feel he can be doing better instead of Settling for CL footie etc.

You have to give him credit for this season though, after the sunderland game he could havetold these lot not to worry th is ok etc and be done but they fought and look to finish strong. from where we were you had loads who said we been relegated and sillyness like that never gave us a chance.

[Grebbo]

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Fergie would, Mourinho, possibly Hiddink, I even think Klopp maybe able to.

Fergie sure
Mourinho no chance. I said "current squad" not "current squad and open chequebook".
Hiddink did well with a brilliant Chelsea team. A team full of winners. It's a possibility like you say but worth replacing Wenger for him?
Klopp I know nothing about.

[selassie]

This, and this is why fans are frustated, some feel he can be doing better instead of Settling for CL footie etc.

You have to give him credit for this season though, after the sunderland game he could havetold these lot not to worry th is ok etc and be done but they fought and look to finish strong. from where we were you had loads who said we been relegated and sillyness like that never gave us a chance.

Hey Charlie, I gave him credit for the turnaround but not the season, he caused this mess so he was the one who should have got us out of it and to be fair he has.

For me he's still very much on trial.

[selassie]

Fergie sure
Mourinho no chance. I said "current squad" not "current squad and open chequebook".
Hiddink did well with a brilliant Chelsea team. A team full of winners. It's a possibility like you say but worth replacing Wenger for him?
Klopp I know nothing about.

To be fair Mourinho's reputation of being a "chequebook" manager is slightly unfair, he did very well in Portugal prior to coming to Chelsea with a fairly limited budget. I don't like Mourinho as a person but rate him as probably the 2nd best Manager in World Football. Chequebook or not he can mould a team into winners.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

(Except for that bastard Fergie).

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Kinda makes you think that he's not that shit after all.

No way id swap him for anyone in the prem apart from fergie and maybe AVB in a few years.

The rest would not be good enough to take us where we want to be.

AW has never been Shit, thats just something to make the doom and gloom mongers feel better.

[The Ogg Monster]

Not only is Wenger the best manager in the PL but he's also the greatest person to grace the earth.

Wenger
God


everyone else.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Hey Charlie, I gave him credit for the turnaround but not the season, he caused this mess so he was the one who should have got us out of it and to be fair he has.

For me he's still very much on trial.

Kudos to you and id agree, imo he has to prove to me he is still the right man lol, but he hasto take the blame even some for why we are this way.

[Grebbo]

To be fair Mourinho's reputation of being a "chequebook" manager is slightly unfair, he did very well in Portugal prior to coming to Chelsea with a fairly limited budget. I don't like Mourinho as a person but rate him as probably the 2nd best Manager in World Football. Chequebook or not he can mould a team into winners.

Porto were already the biggest club in Portugal when he took over weren't they? (I genuinely don't know) They were bloody lucky to knock Manure out of the Champs Lge. He still did an amazing job with them - no doubt. He's also an amazing manager. He's made great personal moves though (Chelsea - very good team and unlimited budget, Inter were champions when he took over weren't they?, Madrid....I admit finishing above that Barca team would be some achievement but being able to spend £80m on one player does help.

[LDG]

Kudos to you and id agree, imo he has to prove to me he is still the right man lol, but he hasto take the blame even some for why we are this way.

You change your line of thinking more times than Letters says "...that Wenger is some kind of bumbling idiot..."

[Syn]

:haha:

But fortunately not as many times as he says "But we'll see".

[LDG]

:lol:

Letterisms :bow:

[latewinner]

Fergie sure
Mourinho no chance. I said "current squad" not "current squad and open chequebook".
Hiddink did well with a brilliant Chelsea team. A team full of winners. It's a possibility like you say but worth replacing Wenger for him?
Klopp I know nothing about.

Why does it have to be this squad?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You change your line of thinking more times than Letters says "...that Wenger is some kind of bumbling idiot..."

I have never said AW is not to blame or that he does not have to prove to the fans.

But it does not mean i can't be optimisic going into the new season.

[latewinner]

To be fair Mourinho's reputation of being a "chequebook" manager is slightly unfair, he did very well in Portugal prior to coming to Chelsea with a fairly limited budget. I don't like Mourinho as a person but rate him as probably the 2nd best Manager in World Football. Chequebook or not he can mould a team into winners.

Mourinho is the greatest manager ever in my opnion. He's a freak.

[LDG]

I have never not said AW is not to blame or that he has to prove to the fans.

But it does not mean i can't be optimisic going into the new season.

:wacko:

[Marc Overmars]

:lol:

Letterisms :bow:

Pomp. :bow:

Ceremony. :bow:

[Cripps_orig]

Mourinho is the greatest manager ever in my opnion. He's a freak.Wouldnt say ever but he is damn good and comfortably pisses on Wenger

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:wacko:

Sorry meant, He is not to blame.

[Cripps_orig]

Sorry meant, He is not to blame.Isnt that what you said anyway?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wouldnt say ever but he is damn good and comfortably pisses on Wenger


Would not say pisses on him but he is better, then again Pep Shits on the both tbh.

Isnt that what you said anyway?

Just don't know anymore tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

Pep :lol:

The barca fall guy who has f all to do with their success as most is down to Laporta, refs, UEFA, FIFA? Hes just there as the face and to be the fall guy if as looks likely this season it all goes pear shaped

[Grebbo]

Why does it have to be this squad?

Well because I'm wondering whether any manager in the world could do better with this squad of players. Buying world class players for silly money is the easy bit. I'm interested in someone getting the most out of a group of players and not being bailed out by a big fat chequebook.

To only be behind Manure and Citeh, which is to be expected, and to be in front of Chelsea etc is an achievement IMO.

[AFCFTW]

Wouldnt say ever but he is damn good and comfortably pisses on Wenger

How could you say that? Mourinho has never had to work under any sort of strain or external influence. Wenger has turned us from an average Premier League side into a club respected over Europe. The stadium handicapped us initially but he still did remarkably well to keep us in the top 4, all that with a young and sometimes average squad as well. I'm not saying Wenger it out right better than Mourinho, both have their relative merits but I think what Wenger has achieved is on the whole far more impressive.

[Özim]

How could you say that? Mourinho has never had to work under any sort of strain or external influence. Wenger has turned us from an average Premier League side into a club respected over Europe. The stadium handicapped us initially but he still did remarkably well to keep us in the top 4, all that with a young and sometimes average squad as well. I'm not saying Wenger it out right better than Mourinho, both have their relative merits but I think what Wenger has achieved is on the whole far more impressive.
I disagree, Mourinho has gone to different clubs and delivered extraordinary success at all of them.

Porto and Inter had no hope of winning the CL without him and you can see the difference in the team ethic as soon as her turns up pretty much. How have Chelsea done since he's left, they haven't really won all that much which again shows how good he is.

Wenger has gone over 6 years without so much as a tin pot trophy to his name and has made some awful mistakes, whilst he's not done too badly all in all this season we've lost a lot of games and although we've had two purple patches we've also had some awful runs, that's ignoring the fact we were knocked out of everything by February which is pretty poor for us.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol:

best manager in the league :lol:

no trophy for 7 years, shite at tactics, cant organise the defence, awful signings along the way, made us an absolute embarressment, but 4 months of good football and apparently he's the best manager in the league :haha:

we're fortunate we have rvp otherwise this thread would be 'is wenger the worst manager in the premier league?'

mancini is more tactically astute, its just he has a bunch of knobheads in his team fighting for the biggest payday.

fergie's won the league 12 times out the last 20.

lambert has done a wonder job at norwich.

pardews done well given resources.

not saying any of them are better but christ get a grip, wenger is nowhere near the best in the league. most of it's down to rvp.

if we were talking about wenger pre-2005 then deffo. but now :haha:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

How could you say that? Mourinho has never had to work under any sort of strain or external influence. Wenger has turned us from an average Premier League side into a club respected over Europe. The stadium handicapped us initially but he still did remarkably well to keep us in the top 4, all that with a young and sometimes average squad as well. I'm not saying Wenger it out right better than Mourinho, both have their relative merits but I think what Wenger has achieved is on the whole far more impressive.

it really isnt.

he could have gone out and bought the players everyone knew we needed over the past few years to help us win the title. but he neglected our key problems and at the same time became a stubborn idiot. heck even the carling cup final last year was down to him, he's so mentally weak he can't motivate players to perform on the big stage and half our teams have been mentally crap (and before you say, 4 months of good football this season does not make up for years of shite).

if mourinho was in charge of our 07/08 team we would have won the league.

[Letters]

He's better than anyone bar Fergie which is what the initial post says and your post seems to agree with.

Knob.

[Özim]

Is he a good manager, without question, is he one of the best no IMO.

He's not managed any success in years and has made some awful mistakes, it really depends whether you think 3rd place is a great achievement and whether a manager accepting this as success is good enough.

Personally I don't think the best managers would have settled for this as easily as he seems to have, it's not just about satisfying your employers IMO, it's about trying to be the best out there and achieving success you can look back on with pride later on.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

He's better than anyone bar Fergie which is what the initial post says and your post seems to agree with.

Knob.

where did i say that? :lol:

top mod :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:

best manager in the league :lol:

no trophy for 7 years, shite at tactics, cant organise the defence, awful signings along the way, made us an absolute embarressment, but 4 months of good football and apparently he's the best manager in the league :haha:

we're fortunate we have rvp otherwise this thread would be 'is wenger the worst manager in the premier league?'

mancini is more tactically astute, its just he has a bunch of knobheads in his team fighting for the biggest payday.

fergie's won the league 12 times out the last 20.

lambert has done a wonder job at norwich.

pardews done well given resources.

not saying any of them are better but christ get a grip, wenger is nowhere near the best in the league. most of it's down to rvp.

if we were talking about wenger pre-2005 then deffo. but now :haha:

You need to read the OP again, it has nothing to do with the last 7 years it about this season wha the OP was talking about.

So all this not winnig a thing for 7 years is not relevant to anything.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You need to read the OP again, it has nothing to do with the last 7 years it about this season wha the OP was talking about.

So all this not winnig a thing for 7 years is not relevant to anything.

yes and i said because of our worst start in 50 odd years he clearly isn't.

if you think some decent results that was mainly down to having rvp in our team makes up for wengers shite season then no chance.

e.g. when we were 2-0 down at tottenham, did wenger change the game? no, the players decided to get off their arses in the 35th minute and started playing properly.

:lol: best in the league

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Is he a good manager, without question, is he one of the best no IMO.

He's not managed any success in years and has made some awful mistakes, it really depends whether you think 3rd place is a great achievement and whether a manager accepting this as success is good enough.

Personally I don't think the best managers would have settled for this as easily as he seems to have, it's not just about satisfying your employers IMO, it's about trying to be the best out there and achieving success you can look back on with pride later on.

WTF has that got to do with that the OP askm he asked about this season not about what he never won 6 years ago.

You can't say that apart from fergie right now in the prem(no other league) you'd acutally want any of those to manager our club.

Wenger may not be top of his game atm but he is the best of the rest thats for dam sure.

Who is to say Wenger won't look back on the success he has had and be happy, yes he might not have won a thing in 7 years but its not easy to get in the Cl year in year out its an achievement.

Wengers has to please his employers they pay him we don't when their ambition changes so does his.

If he was as nad a manager as you say they have sacked him long time a go its that simple.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

yes and i said because of our worst start in 50 odd years he clearly isn't.

if you think some decent results that was mainly down to having rvp in our team makes up for wengers shite season then no chance.

e.g. when we were 2-0 down at tottenham, did wenger change the game? no, the players decided to get off their arses in the 35th minute and started playing properly.

:lol: best in the league

Fail play, But not many this season are better managers then him if were honest with ourselfs only talking about EPL not other leagues.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

WTF has that got to do with that the OP askm he asked about this season not about what he never won 6 years ago.

You can't say that apart from fergie right now in the prem(no other league) you'd acutally want any of those to manager our club.

Wenger may not be top of his game atm but he is the best of the rest thats for dam sure.

does he? op said:

If we finish 3rd Wenger is the best manager in the league
(Except for that bastard Fergie).

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Kinda makes you think that he's not that shit after all.

never once said this season.

in fact the first response talks about the past 7 years etc etc.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

yes and i said because of our worst start in 50 odd years he clearly isn't.

if you think some decent results that was mainly down to having rvp in our team makes up for wengers shite season then no chance.

e.g. when we were 2-0 down at tottenham, did wenger change the game? no, the players decided to get off their arses in the 35th minute and started playing properly.

:lol: best in the league

Using that as an example doesn't make any sense and contradicts your argument; if the players suddenly decided to start playing then can't it be said they are to blame for not performing in previous games? I.e it is not Wenger's fault if players can decide when they turn up or not?
You've already said Mancini is tactically astute but has been let down by players, so in which case it's very hard for us to ever truly evaluate managers if they're so easily at the behest of what players decide to do.

There are valid reasons why the OP could be argued to be wrong but actually using the winning of games against him seems plainly odd.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I disagree, Mourinho has gone to different clubs and delivered extraordinary success at all of them.

Porto and Inter had no hope of winning the CL without him and you can see the difference in the team ethic as soon as her turns up pretty much. How have Chelsea done since he's left, they haven't really won all that much which again shows how good he is.

Wenger has gone over 6 years without so much as a tin pot trophy to his name and has made some awful mistakes, whilst he's not done too badly all in all this season we've lost a lot of games and although we've had two purple patches we've also had some awful runs, that's ignoring the fact we were knocked out of everything by February which is pretty poor for us.

Porto where lucky to win the Cl though nothing to do with Jose being in charge, he pratically faced no one from the 1/4 to win it even cheated the mancs to do it.

And lets not get too excited about him being a succes in portugal not really the hardest league to win really porto always win it anyway.

But his other Achievements can't be knocked even if he has to do it with the help of a chequebook.

Hes's a winner i will give you that but the man is a prick of the heighest.

[LDG]

Some people seem quite dissapointed we have a decent manager.

Fuckin mental, the lot of you.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I disagree, Mourinho has gone to different clubs and delivered extraordinary success at all of them.

Porto and Inter had no hope of winning the CL without him and you can see the difference in the team ethic as soon as her turns up pretty much. How have Chelsea done since he's left, they haven't really won all that much which again shows how good he is.

Wenger has gone over 6 years without so much as a tin pot trophy to his name and has made some awful mistakes, whilst he's not done too badly all in all this season we've lost a lot of games and although we've had two purple patches we've also had some awful runs, that's ignoring the fact we were knocked out of everything by February which is pretty poor for us.

well sorry that is bollocks. he has been at madrid and has won fa cup/carling cup whatever to his name. been shat on by barca every time they play and looks liekly to fuck up a ten point lead in la liga. no way has he delieverd extradorainy success here. in spain, mourinho is guardioloas bitch

[Olivier's xmas twist]

well sorry that is bollocks. he has been at madrid and has won fa cup/carling cup whatever to his name. been shat on by barca every time they play and looks liekly to fuck up a ten point lead in la liga. no way has he delieverd extradorainy success here. in spain, mourinho is guardioloas bitch

Fucking spot on Ollie. Always has been and always will be, Now Pep thats a man who has earnt his success and need not need a spend loads to get it.

[latewinner]

How could you say that? Mourinho has never had to work under any sort of strain or external influence. Wenger has turned us from an average Premier League side into a club respected over Europe. The stadium handicapped us initially but he still did remarkably well to keep us in the top 4, all that with a young and sometimes average squad as well. I'm not saying Wenger it out right better than Mourinho, both have their relative merits but I think what Wenger has achieved is on the whole far more impressive.

Wenger is a great manager in the overall sense, managing the team and club, handling certain constraints some legitimate some self imposed but he's not on Mourinho's level strictly measuring performance and results on the pitch regardless of the money involved. Mourinho's detractors point to the bundle of money he's had but winning the treble with Inter Milan was remarkable money or no money. Do you think Wenger could have done the same, masterminding wins over, Chelsea, Barcelona and Bayern Munich. I don't think any manger could. He's the best at achieving the best results with capable players.
Would Wenger win the league with Real Madrid up against this Barcelona side?
Wenger's praised because he didn't have as much money as his rivals and its assumed he'd be even greater but give him the same resources as Mourinho and I think its clear he wouldn't achieve what he has.

[Globalgunner]

The eternal question on these blogs: Wenger the great or Wenger the wimp. He may be the second best manager in the league but in real terms Fergie is so far ahead of him that the space between them should be 1st to 5th, then comes Wenger. The sad thing about us Arsenal fans now is that we revel in glorious failure. We failed to make it past Milan, but we tell ourselves we did great by beating them at the emirates. Chelsea on the other hand faced a similar mountain and scaled through, yet we see ourselves as winners nonetheless. We have beeen long at it, When Barcelona eliminated us a few seasons ago. Wenger was back on the mic a few weeks later, chortling that we, Arsenal were one of the only 2 teams to beat them anywhere that year.

We are the kid who used to get straight A`s in high school but when at Uni, surrounded by other smart kids, starts to pat himself on the back for getting B`s. "At least i`m better than that Spud down the road who allways gets C".

So Wengers done great again eh?. A man whos list of lemon signings is at least 30 strong, talented dilettante chokers who get paid for not being able to put the ball in the net even with the goalie awol.

We like to hear what we want to hear and disregard the rest ( Sorry Simon and Garfunkel) even when it is pertinant. Sol Campbell wrote in the Guardian just yesterday that Wenger brooks no opposition to his methods especially amongst his backroom staff and also amongst the players. that is why we have no strong characters in our squad and why we make the same tactical and mental deficient mistakes each year . It is the Wenger way or no way. which is okay if you are a constant success like fergie but sheer hubris otherwise. This is probably the reason Steve Bould, Keown and other old players will not accept to be his RH stooge. Expect to see Pat Rice prevailed upon to stay another year, Hey, why break up a winning team

Wenger needs to change his ways and fast otherwise, this same discourse will continue on this forum until he leaves...........Or until Fergie finally gets tired of swanning the EPL each year with 25 titles that Pool will not be able to eclipse in a millennia,,,then Wenger can move up from 6th to 1st. OH happy days.....Hooray!!!!!!!!!

[latewinner]

Well because I'm wondering whether any manager in the world could do better with this squad of players. Buying world class players for silly money is the easy bit. I'm interested in someone getting the most out of a group of players and not being bailed out by a big fat chequebook.

To only be behind Manure and Citeh, which is to be expected, and to be in front of Chelsea etc is an achievement IMO.

Well I asked because I thought the reason we criticize him is because of the squad he's assembled.. Chamakh, Park, Almunia, Bendter, Vela, Denilson...
I do sometimes think although he could assemble a much better squad he does overachieve with what he has. Then again I think other managers like Mourinho and Ferguson could get a lot more out of them
I don't think being in front of this Chelsea is an achievement.

[latewinner]

The eternal question on these blogs: Wenger the great or Wenger the wimp. He may be the second best manager in the league but in real terms Fergie is so far ahead of him that the space between them should be 1st to 5th, then comes Wenger. The sad thing about us Arsenal fans now is that we revel in glorious failure. We failed to make it past Milan, but we tell ourselves we did great by beating them at the emirates. Chelsea on the other hand faced a similar mountain and scaled through, yet we see ourselves as winners nonetheless. We have beeen long at it, When Barcelona eliminated us a few seasons ago. Wenger was back on the mic a few weeks later, chortling that we, Arsenal were one of the only 2 teams to beat them anywhere that year.

We are the kid who used to get straight A`s in high school but when at Uni, surrounded by other smart kids, starts to pat himself on the back for getting B`s. "At least i`m better than that Spud down the road who allways gets C".

So Wengers done great again eh?. A man whos list of lemon signings is at least 30 strong, talented dilettante chokers who get paid for not being able to put the ball in the net even with the goalie awol.

We like to hear what we want to hear and disregard the rest ( Sorry Simon and Garfunkel) even when it is pertinant. Sol Campbell wrote in the Guardian just yesterday that Wenger brooks no opposition to his methods especially amongst his backroom staff and also amongst the players. that is why we have no strong characters in our squad and why we make the same tactical and mental deficient mistakes each year . It is the Wenger way or no way. which is okay if you are a constant success like fergie but sheer hubris otherwise. This is probably the reason Steve Bould, Keown and other old players will not accept to be his RH stooge. Expect to see Pat Rice prevailed upon to stay another year, Hey, why break up a winning team

Wenger needs to change his ways and fast otherwise, this same discourse will continue on this forum until he leaves...........Or until Fergie finally gets tired of swanning the EPL each year with 25 titles that Pool will not be able to eclipse in a millennia,,,then Wenger can move up from 6th to 1st. OH happy days.....Hooray!!!!!!!!!

That was funny do agree. You're right about Milan. While most Arsenal fans and especially Wenger's supporters were praising the comeback and saw no negative I saw the fact we could get three goals in the first half when it looked impossible to overturn and were living on adrenaline and no fear but couldn't get the vital next one (and never looked like we could except RVP's golden chance) in the whole of the second half when the comeback became reality a mark of the team's mentality. When it looks likely can't do it.
Now I was proud of us but the culture surrounding this club is that of false hope and readily acceptance, any positive whether is the game against milan, winning 7 in a row come he end of the season for fourth place and no trophy is blown up greater than what it is

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That was funny do agree. You're right about Milan. While most Arsenal fans and especially Wenger's supporters were praising the comeback and saw no negative I saw the fact we could get three goals in the first half when it looked impossible to overturn and were living on adrenaline and no fear but couldn't get the vital next one (and never looked like we could except RVP's golden chance) in the whole of the second half when the comeback became reality a mark of the team's mentality. When it looks likely can't do it.
Now I was proud of us but the culture surrounding this club is that of false hope and readily acceptance, any positive whether is the game against milan, winning 7 in a row come he end of the season for fourth place and no trophy is blown up greater than what it is

:doh:

[latewinner]

:doh:

?

[Cripps_orig]

How could you say that? Mourinho has never had to work under any sort of strain or external influence. Wenger has turned us from an average Premier League side into a club respected over Europe. The stadium handicapped us initially but he still did remarkably well to keep us in the top 4, all that with a young and sometimes average squad as well. I'm not saying Wenger it out right better than Mourinho, both have their relative merits but I think what Wenger has achieved is on the whole far more impressive.Has Wenger? Hes in a comfort zone knowing full well he'll never get sacked. One of the reasons why we've been rubbish for a while. Wouldnt say thats working under strain.

Average side? We finished 5th the season the season before Wenger came. We could attract world class players such as Platt and Bergkamp, had been in 2 European finals winning one and had plenty trophies in the decade before Wenger came without ever really dominating for a period. All he did was continue on with the norm and change from Boring Arsenal to Entertaining Arsenal.

The stadium was meant to take us up a level so we can compete with the big boys....thats worked well. Its been nothing short of a disaster. Id rather go back to Highbury and win stuff then be where we are now and be mediocre.

Mourinho has been successful whereever hes been regardless and dont forget, the self proclaimed best team ever Barca are eating Reals dust this season as Pep is Joses bitch once more.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Has Wenger? Hes in a comfort zone knowing full well he'll never get sacked. One of the reasons why we've been rubbish for a while. Wouldnt say thats working under strain.

Average side? We finished 5th the season the season before Wenger came. We could attract world class players such as Platt and Bergkamp, had been in 2 European finals winning one and had plenty trophies in the decade before Wenger came without ever really dominating for a period. All he did was continue on with the norm and change from Boring Arsenal to Entertaining Arsenal.

The stadium was meant to take us up a level so we can compete with the big boys....thats worked well. Its been nothing short of a disaster. Id rather go back to Highbury and win stuff then be where we are now and be mediocre.

Mourinho has been successful whereever hes been regardless and dont forget, the self proclaimed best team ever Barca are eating Reals dust this season as Pep is Joses bitch once more.


Once more :haha:

Your having a shocker again.

[latewinner]

:doh:

Ok I think I know what you mean. Everyone was proud pro wenger or not but what I meant with results like that many of them are quick to include Wenger in their praise

[Cripps_orig]

Once more :haha:

Your having a shocker again.League table doesnt lie...

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ok I think I know what you mean. Everyone was proud pro wenger or not but what I meant with results like that many of them are quick to include Wenger in their praise

No what i meant was, things like Wengers fans hate statements like that. Were all Arsenal fans not Wenger fans and it just seems people who say that, say it to suit their argument or to say how people are happy to accept failure etc.

Just because you don't say Aw out after does not mean you his fan, or if we were happy with the spirt in the Milan game did not mean people accepted it to be success.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

League table doesnt lie...

You said once more, thats what im talking about, pep has been owing him for about 2 years now.

Except for the CL defeat to Inter though.

[Cripps_orig]

You said once more, thats what im talking about, pep has been owing him for about 2 years now.

Except for the CL defeat to Inter though.And the cup final last season

So Barca wins a couple of pub team friendlies and a few league games :lol:

Real are still top. Im sure Mourinho would gladly lose to Pep every time if it meant Real won the league. Once more, Pep has been shown up by the Special One.

Biggest Must Get of all time and if we could get him, we're winning the treble if not the quadruple next season comfortably

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Using that as an example doesn't make any sense and contradicts your argument; if the players suddenly decided to start playing then can't it be said they are to blame for not performing in previous games? I.e it is not Wenger's fault if players can decide when they turn up or not?
You've already said Mancini is tactically astute but has been let down by players, so in which case it's very hard for us to ever truly evaluate managers if they're so easily at the behest of what players decide to do.

There are valid reasons why the OP could be argued to be wrong but actually using the winning of games against him seems plainly odd.

as usual you've taken the bull by the horn and looked at a post from completely the wrong angle.

we are talking about the manager not the players. my example was to show that the manager has had less impact on our revival than people think, as its more down to players. so yes, they have let the manager down by not playing well, but they were allowed to do that because wenger was inept to allow it in the first place. we clearly hadn't trained the whole team to defend at the beginning of the season and it seems the players are the ones who got their finger out their arses and decided to change our luck this season.

most notably our captain, who has been nothing short of fantastic.

so using a game where we won as a result of our players having the underlying influence, instead of the manager, is perfectly acceptable.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

And the cup final last season

So Barca wins a couple of pub team friendlies and a few league games :lol:

Real are still top. Im sure Mourinho would gladly lose to Pep every time if it meant Real won the league. Once more, Pep has been shown up by the Special One.

Biggest Must Get of all time and if we could get him, we're winning the treble if not the quadruple next season comfortably

Just like real yeah

He's peps bitch always will be and once he bottles this league will be again.

Durham :bow:

Whats the Spanish for bottling it cause thats what Jose is doing.

Durham, He is the best there is of what he does.

Even Balague says the same more ore less.

[Cripps_orig]

Just like real yeah

He's peps bitch always will be and once he bottles this league will be again.Just like Inter and Porto

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Just like Inter and Porto
That has nout to do with him being at real.

[latewinner]

Wouldnt say ever but he is damn good and comfortably pisses on Wenger

I'd say ever because I don't think there's ever been a more feared manager. If for example we heard he is the next Tottenham manager imagine the fear all of us would have. He'd have them winning guaranteed and I don't think you can say that about any manager except maybe Ferguson.
He guarantees success more than any manager ever has.

[Cripps_orig]

That has nout to do with him being at real.But it has everything with him being an alwsome manager. If you want to talk just about Real, we have a specific Spanish thread for that

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But it has everything with him being an alwsome manager. If you want to talk just about Real, we have a specific Spanish thread for that

Your the one who said he is good and that he wins trebles where ever he goes, well he is not doing it at real is he was my point, so not sure why you think he'd do it with us.

And so what if they are leading Barca if they don't win the league it don't mean anything, but i doubt he'd care anyway.

he'd swan of to city and start again. Least pep knows how to stick with one club and care for its future, thats why he will alwaus be better then Jose.

[Cripps_orig]

Your the one who said he is good and that he wins trebles where ever he goes, well he is not doing it at real is he was my point, so not sure why you think he'd do it with us.Well no i didnt say that

Womming again?

[latewinner]

Your the one who said he is good and that he wins trebles where ever he goes, well he is not doing it at real is he was my point, so not sure why you think he'd do it with us.

It's an exceptional case. He's up against the greatest club side ever and even he has his limits. But he could win la liga and the champions league and if he does he's the best there's ever been

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's an exceptional case. He's up against the greatest club side ever and even he has his limits. But he could win la liga and the champions league and if he does he's the best there's ever been

Thats a big if. Don't get it twisted Jose is a very good manager and like ACH said has the abilty to be the best ever.

But he seems to let Uefa/Barca get to him so much.

We all know Barca are a bunch of cheating scum, but for some reason he seems to fall into the trap instead of trying to outsmart Barca.

Id have more respect for him, if he sent his teams to beat Barca not just foul them because they can't beat them.

he has a better sqaud then pep has done since he took over yet everytime they meet he struggles to master Pep.

If he is going to become our manager and everytime we play Barca he tells the lads to kick the shit out of them, then no thanks.

[Cripps_orig]

I'd say ever because I don't think there's ever been a more feared manager. If for example we heard he is the next Tottenham manager imagine the fear all of us would have. He'd have them winning guaranteed and I don't think you can say that about any manager except maybe Ferguson.
He guarantees success more than any manager ever has.Capello i believe has won the league where ever hes been with whatever club hes been. Hes pretty good. I know people in England will view him as a failure cos of his time with the National team but thats a job not even i could do and im the best in the world at what i do.

Mourinho, i think is a younger version of Capello. Dont think hes at that level yet but in time, who knows

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Capello i believe has won the league where ever hes been with whatever club hes been. Hes pretty good. I know people in England will view him as a failure cos of his time with the National team but thats a job not even i could do and im the best in the world at what i do.



This i will agree with

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well no i didnt say that

Womming again?


Ok so you did not say it exactly, but i assume that what you were alluring too apologies if i was wrong.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

as usual you've taken the bull by the horn and looked at a post from completely the wrong angle.

we are talking about the manager not the players. my example was to show that the manager has had less impact on our revival than people think, as its more down to players. so yes, they have let the manager down by not playing well, but they were allowed to do that because wenger was inept to allow it in the first place. we clearly hadn't trained the whole team to defend at the beginning of the season and it seems the players are the ones who got their finger out their arses and decided to change our luck this season.

most notably our captain, who has been nothing short of fantastic.

so using a game where we won as a result of our players having the underlying influence, instead of the manager, is perfectly acceptable.

No, you said of the Tottenham game it was the players that suddenly decided to play at 0-2 down, is the reason we went on to win that game. To me, what Wenger does is a double-edged sword, he allows players the freedom to affect the game even when it looks lost, which I think is why we can come back to score five but the problem is he allows that freedom to happen in every single game.

If we were really only talking about managers then you wouldn't afford Mancini a caveat by saying he is tactically astute and then again blame his players. He is just as accountable of their downfall as anybody else. It's no coincidence that when it got to the key months of the season, he retreated in to his defensive shell and started getting Man City to play more like they did last season, in this case, that meant De Jong playing more and more. Managers are ultimately accountable for whatever happens during a season and in Mancini's case, that's bombing out of five competitions and yes I am fully aware to what Wenger is accountable for, too.

For me personally I think Wenger has proven he is good enough to get us to a certain level (again) but I doubt whether he is going to give us the best opportunity to challenge for the title.

[AFCFTW]

as usual you've taken the bull by the horn and looked at a post from completely the wrong angle.

we are talking about the manager not the players. my example was to show that the manager has had less impact on our revival than people think, as its more down to players. so yes, they have let the manager down by not playing well, but they were allowed to do that because wenger was inept to allow it in the first place. we clearly hadn't trained the whole team to defend at the beginning of the season and it seems the players are the ones who got their finger out their arses and decided to change our luck this season.

most notably our captain, who has been nothing short of fantastic.

so using a game where we won as a result of our players having the underlying influence, instead of the manager, is perfectly acceptable.

I'm sorry She Wore (Love that song by the way) but you can't have it both ways. If the manager is held to account for not preparing the players, then surely by the same token he deserves a degree of credit for the upturn in form? The players have not done this by themselves, confidence was on the floor during the early part of the season and after Christmas, Wenger must have done something to get them playing well and restoring some much needed pride. For someone who is believed to be lacking in man management skills, he's not done that badly at all if you think about it.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's an exceptional case. He's up against the greatest club side ever and even he has his limits. But he could win la liga and the champions league and if he does he's the best there's ever been

He'll need to start and retain a dynasty with a club to be the best there has been, I think (difficult given he is such a prickly character). He has elevated himself to the position of being able to go to the No.1 or No.2 side in each country very quickly and he absolutely deserves credit for that; he is smart enough to go to the club where he has the best possible base to work from. If he goes to Man City though then I think it would damage his credibility somewhat, he'd have been at the most prestigious club in the world, traditionally one of the best sides in Portugal, traditionally one of the best sides in Italy and two clubs with massive financial backing.

I think he's a great coach but I don't think he's a great manager. And it could yet go tits up for Real Madrid this season.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

im not sure how else to put it really, doesnt seem like im making my point across well.

basically:

1. players are responsible for upturn in form, especially rvp. without him we would be midtable.
2. because players are responsible for form (you have players coming out every week saying the team is performing better because they have decided to work on the defensive formation of the team in training etc) then wenger takes little credit for it. if it was all down to wenger, then why were we so shite at the start of the season then suddenly turned into world beaters now? that to me is the sign of players getting their fingers out their arses instead of wenger sorting something out, otherwise, we would not have had the kind of form we are having now at the beginning of the season. wenger would instead have 'sorted' the mess out sooner.
3. the idea that wenger 'must have done something to restore our position' is nonsense. rvp single handedly did that.
4. wengers made some terrible mistakes this season (taking chambo off against united sticks out) and had a woeful summer. this is why he is not the 'best manager in the league' and it shouldn't even be up for debate.
5. i used to the tottenham game as an example where the PLAYERS turned the game around, not wenger, because is true. we were 2-0 before halftime, then got it back to 2-2 BEFORE halftime. the manager done nothing apart from sit on the fucking bench. it was the players who turned it around, most notably rosicky and rvp who decided to take matters into their own hands. its nothing to do with 'freedom of players on the pitch', its the tide turning, momentum shifting, and the players performing.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He'll need to start and retain a dynasty with a club to be the best there has been, I think (difficult given he is such a prickly character). He has elevated himself to the position of being able to go to the No.1 or No.2 side in each country very quickly and he absolutely deserves credit for that; he is smart enough to go to the club where he has the best possible base to work from. If he goes to Man City though then I think it would damage his credibility somewhat, he'd have been at the most prestigious club in the world, traditionally one of the best sides in Portugal, traditionally one of the best sides in Italy and two clubs with massive financial backing.

I think he's a great coach but I don't think he's a great manager. And it could yet go tits up for Real Madrid this season.


Spot on Maccy.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1. Of course but managers are ultimately always accountable for it. In a bad sense or a good sense. Wenger could easily be given credit for playing RVP in that role when he himself said that that he questioned whether it was a good decision by Wenger, when he suggested it to him. And that interview with that quote was broadcast very recently.

2. Players coming out every week, really? It's not all down to the manager, I never suggested it was. We made some terrible mistakes with how we chose to act in August and that quite clearly ran in to how we performed at the beginning of the season and that is unquestionably a fault of Wenger's. I would say we've never mismanaged a summer as badly as the one just gone though and I can only hope it never comes to close to that again.

3. Ah I didn't say anything about that (i.e it's a reply to someone else), so I'll leave that one.

4. Of course, he has some very evident flaws. If you're going to use that as some kind of litmus test for the rest of the managers in the league then I think you will find bad mistakes made by most of them. And everything should be up for debate, I'd like to think that's why the forum should exist!

5. This is very much like No.1 for me. You can directly talk about players that might have suddenly had a lightbulb and decided to do things properly (not that they would be able to if they were in an extremely rigid team) but the managers always ends up getting the credit when it goes well. Just like he would have got the criticism if it had remained at 0-2 and just like 'Arry got the criticism for losing 5-2, rather than say King who suddenly looked like a lumbering oaf.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

aye, i guess we're both viewing the change in fortune from a different view. you place a lot of emphasis on wenger whilst i place it on the players.

[Letters]

where did i say that? :lol:

here:


not saying any of them are better

[Özim]

I don't get the Mourinho knockers, I get that they might not like him because of what he does but to knock his achievements is nonsensical.

The fact is at every club he's been he's delivered massive success, at Porto he won the league, UEFA Cup and CL....they've not got near the CL since then. At Chelsea he made them the dominant force and won several titles and cups..again they've not got near the success since he left. At Inter he won the treble including the CL, the CL was the holy grail for them and they hadn't got near winning it for many years and don't look capale of winning sh*t since he left. At Real he delivered the cup in his 1st season and now his team are top of the league ahead of the team people regard as the best in the world.

To argue with his record is ridiculous to be honest, other than at Arsenal Wenger hasn't achieved that much, one title and a cup in France, a cup in Japan and then some great success with us in his earlier days...it's now been over 6 years since those sucesses.

His record is good but not in the same league as Mourinho in any sense, in addition how many top managers do you know that have gone that long without a trophy of sorts? IMO a manager of a big club should be measure by the success he achieves and based on his whole record for us that's not that great.

Who the f*ck is going to remember qualifying for the CL in 10 years time, this isn't going to be written in the history books.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't get the Mourinho knockers, I get that they might not like him because of what he does but to knock his achievements is nonsensical.

The fact is at every club he's been he's delivered massive success, at Porto he won the league, UEFA Cup and CL....they've not got near the CL since then. At Chelsea he made them the dominant force and won several titles and cups..again they've not got near the success since he left. At Inter he won the treble including the CL, the CL was the holy grail for them and they hadn't got near winning it for many years and don't look capale of winning sh*t since he left. At Real he delivered the cup in his 1st season and now his team are top of the league ahead of the team people regard as the best in the world.

To argue with his record is ridiculous to be honest, other than at Arsenal Wenger hasn't achieved that much, one title and a cup in France, a cup in Japan and then some great success with us in his earlier days...it's now been over 6 years since those sucesses.

His record is good but not in the same league as Mourinho in any sense, in addition how many top managers do you know that have gone that long without a trophy of sorts? IMO a manager of a big club should be measure by the success he achieves and based on his whole record for us that's not that great.

Who the f*ck is going to remember qualifying for the CL in 10 years time, this isn't going to be written in the history books.

Yes he has won alot at diffrent clubs but when he does it at the same club like, Fergie has or like Pep has or even like Wenger has he will get more respected.

People go on like he is the best manager on earth when in truth he is far from it.

Id like to see him stay at one club and deliever success over an amout of time then he can be called great.

Its easy to manage one of the top 2 teams in the league he has of course he'd win the league id have been more impressed if he did the treble with Napoli tbh.

[Özim]

Yes he has won alot at diffrent clubs but when he does it at the same club like, Fergie has or like Pep has or even like Wenger has he will get more respected.

People go on like he is the best manager on earth when in truth he is far from it.

Id like to see him stay at one club and deliever success over an amout of time then he can be called great.
Why the f*ck should he stay at one club, this isn' t the dark ages anymore, players and managers move around...Wenger has been at this club far too long IMO and look at the problems it's caused, everything is about him and that's an unhealthy situation......it's the same thing with Fergie but at least he does things right and is hungry for success and produces it time after time...once he leaves though any new manager will find it very hard to manage the club because everything is about Ferguson that'll be a burden in itself for someone new.

Mourinho is one of the best whether you like it or not and he's proved it time after time, short term success is much harder to achieve than long term success as you don't have years to build a team and squad, maintaining success is hard (though Mourinho did it with Chelsea) but Wenger has failed to do this anyway.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why the f*ck should he stay at one club, this isn' t the dark ages anymore, players and managers move around...Wenger has been at this club far too long IMO and look at the problems it's caused, everything is about him and that's an unhealthy situation......it's the same thing with Fergie but at least he does things right and is hungry for success and produces it time after time...once he leaves though any new manager will find it very hard to manage the club because everything is about Ferguson that'll be a burden in itself for someone new.

Mourinho is one of the best whether you like it or not and he's proved it time after time, short term success is much harder to achieve than long term success as you don't have years to build a team and squad, maintaining success is hard (though Mourinho did it with Chelsea) but Wenger has failed to do this anyway.

Like i said its easier to win the league when your one fo the top 2 teams in the country with the money he spends.

he is a good coach but to be a good manager you have to prove you can do it at 1 club consistantly. Pep have proved it not sure why Jose can't.

Even when Pep leaves Barca the future will still be bright for them and the next manger won't have a real task.

Unilke Jose once he leaves he more or less sticks 2 fingers up at a club. Look at Chavs and Inter now.

Can't knock his achievements but one of the greatest not just yet.

i get the fact players and managers move around, but even so. Some have ambtion to be the greatest manager that club has.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

here:

i also didnt say any of them are worse.

:haha:

top mod :pal:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Why the f*ck should he stay at one club, this isn' t the dark ages anymore, players and managers move around...Wenger has been at this club far too long IMO and look at the problems it's caused, everything is about him and that's an unhealthy situation......it's the same thing with Fergie but at least he does things right and is hungry for success and produces it time after time...once he leaves though any new manager will find it very hard to manage the club because everything is about Ferguson that'll be a burden in itself for someone new.

Mourinho is one of the best whether you like it or not and he's proved it time after time, short term success is much harder to achieve than long term success as you don't have years to build a team and squad, maintaining success is hard (though Mourinho did it with Chelsea) but Wenger has failed to do this anyway.

spot on. people on one hand say 'cant judge fergie hes really only been at one club', then when we have a phenomenal manager who moves around and takes EVERY club he's been at to the top, it apparently shows he's not the best.

ridiculous.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

spot on. people on one hand say 'cant judge fergie hes really only been at one club', then when we have a phenomenal manager who moves around and takes EVERY club he's been at to the top, it apparently shows he's not the best.

ridiculous.

Fergie has been at UTD and elevated them to new heights to make the succesful when he needs too.

Or Jose has really done is gone to a top 2 club spent some money and won trophies, which is something he should be doing with the money he spent.

If he did it with a Villa or Napoil then you can say he is the greatest manager ever.

[Cripps_orig]

spot on. people on one hand say 'cant judge fergie hes really only been at one club', then when we have a phenomenal manager who moves around and takes EVERY club he's been at to the top, it apparently shows he's not the best.

ridiculous.This

People are reaching if they are using the "hasnt been at one club that long" stuff as a critisism for Mourinho

[Olivier's xmas twist]

TBF ill say something nice about him, He gets alot of credit from me for what he did at Inter because they were shocking before he went there even if the Italian league was on the waine.

So Yeah Winning the CL with them was Excellent. But like ACH said no way is he at the Capello level Yet.

Thats a man who knows success.

[Tipsychubbs]

It goes;

Fergie
Wenger






Everyone else.

The idea that Wenger is a bumbling idiot and anyone could walk in and we'd be winning trophies left, right and centre is laughable.

Winning trophies left and and center is an extreme viewpoint. To get started on that road you need to have the basics. Wenger is an outdated manager nowadays, he used to be a revelation, but others have caught up and surpassed him.

A new manager should at least be able to motivate the team and be tactically astute. That would be a start.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This

People are reaching if they are using the "hasnt been at one club that long" stuff as a critisism for Mourinho

No but if you have people proclaiming you as the best of all time (or very close to being that), you have to leave a legacy somewhere. That does not mean he isn't very, very good anyway.

It's what Mourinho wants to do, so clearly he sees it as something important himself. And quite clearly he is driven to be the best.

[Cripps_orig]

:haha:Well argued

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well argued

I was not arguing though. Its just the way it sounded was funny.

[Jens' Face]

The understanding and movement of Arsenal's midfield trio is a joy to watch and a masterclass in coaching. They are always on the move: one makes a forward run, one peels off at an angle and between them they make the space for the deepest man to move forward with the ball (see diagram). This continual movement off the ball gives the opponents marking problems.

When Song drives forward he invariably seeks his side's goalscorer, Robin van Persie, curving lofted passes into his path. There was a time when he was considered purely a "Makelele type", sitting in front of his centre-backs, cutting out danger. He began his career at Arsenal as a centre-back, where few staff members considered him first-team material. Arsène Wenger had faith and he is seeing the fruits of his outstanding judgment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/08/alex-song-arsenal-manchester-city

[Maestro]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/08/alex-song-arsenal-manchester-city


HRIM :bow: :bow:

IS ALL

[Tipsychubbs]

I'm not falling for that ruse. The same people that perpetuate this media myth that we are the Barcelona of English football. I've seen the team enough times over the last 7 years to not be bowled over by purple patches in form where everyone looks on song. You really think Wenger is a tactical master? Teams lower down than us usually know how to play against us, and exploit our weaknesses. False dawns don't change that long term issue. I didn't see any of these masterclasses against Milan away, Sunderland away, Swansea away, Fulham away, Bolton away etc. when the pressure was on. The team seems to have a 'go and and express yourself' way of coaching mentality rather than an actual focused gameplan that takes into account opponent strengths and weaknesses. I'm not convinced, imo Wenger is a has-been, at the top level.

[Letters]

When the pressure was on? So there's been no pressure recently? Behave.

[Cripps_orig]

When the pressure was on? So there's been no pressure recently? Behave.Is there that much pressure going for 3rd than going for a trophy? I wouldnt say so

[Letters]

Is there that much pressure going for 3rd than going for a trophy? I wouldnt say so

People on here keep on saying that Arsenal regard it as a trophy. :shrug:

[Cripps_orig]

Cos of what Wenger said.

No one else in the world considers it a trophy so going for a self made trophy isnt pressure

[Olivier's xmas twist]

People on here keep on saying that Arsenal regard it as a trophy. :shrug:

Wums gotta wum tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Is there that much pressure going for 3rd than going for a trophy? I wouldnt say so

We were not going for 3rd its about staying in the CL from where we were the pressure was there, stop being an ass.

maybe not as much as winning the league but pressure none the less.

You think being 2-0 down against spuds we were not under pressure.

[Letters]

Cos of what Wenger said.

No one else in the world considers it a trophy so going for a self made trophy isnt pressure


The pressure is on and we cant win

Quote from you after the QPR game :shrug:

[Syn]

Ah man.

No way out here.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ach :rose:

[Cripps_orig]

Quote from you after the QPR game :shrug:What was the points gap between us and the other 3 chasing CL places before that game? I cant remember

[Guns of Gibraltar]

Would you swap Wenger for any other manager in the Prem?

I'd swap him for Fergie, nobody else.

Would any other manager in the world get our squad higher than 3rd?

Fergie would, Mourinho, possibly Hiddink, I even think Klopp maybe able to.

Fergie would with the help of the whole country behind him.

[Tipsychubbs]

We were not going for 3rd its about staying in the CL from where we were the pressure was there, stop being an ass.

maybe not as much as winning the league but pressure none the less.

You think being 2-0 down against spuds we were not under pressure.

We weren't expected to win against Spurs, at that time we were the underdogs considering how the season was going. It was actually a surprise to us fans, the media, pundits, rival fans etc. that we came back to win. So we weren't under real pressure in that match. We weren't going to win anything, just maintaining the staus quo of CL football, the same repetitive CL football that saw us trounced by Milan. And finishing out of a CL will do what, exactly? Cause us to spend money like we'd already been spending while we had the CL money? it would be another excuse to cut costs and economize.

Ok maybe we were under pressure. Financial pressure. With no CL, it might be harder for Peter Hill Wood and his cronies to afford those Cuban cigars and extra yachts, they'd have to scrape around somewhere else to afford them.

[Letters]

What was the points gap between us and the other 3 chasing CL places before that game? I cant rememberWe were 3 points clear of Spurs, would have gone 6 clear (although they played the day after). Tonight we were only 2 points clear (went 5 points clear).

[fakeyank]

I'm not falling for that ruse. The same people that perpetuate this media myth that we are the Barcelona of English football. I've seen the team enough times over the last 7 years to not be bowled over by purple patches in form where everyone looks on song. You really think Wenger is a tactical master? Teams lower down than us usually know how to play against us, and exploit our weaknesses. False dawns don't change that long term issue. I didn't see any of these masterclasses against Milan away, Sunderland away, Swansea away, Fulham away, Bolton away etc. when the pressure was on. The team seems to have a 'go and and express yourself' way of coaching mentality rather than an actual focused gameplan that takes into account opponent strengths and weaknesses. I'm not convinced, imo Wenger is a has-been, at the top level.

:gp:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

When the pressure was on? So there's been no pressure recently? Behave.

4 months of good football does not excuse 7 years of shite.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm not falling for that ruse. The same people that perpetuate this media myth that we are the Barcelona of English football. I've seen the team enough times over the last 7 years to not be bowled over by purple patches in form where everyone looks on song. You really think Wenger is a tactical master? Teams lower down than us usually know how to play against us, and exploit our weaknesses. False dawns don't change that long term issue. I didn't see any of these masterclasses against Milan away, Sunderland away, Swansea away, Fulham away, Bolton away etc. when the pressure was on. The team seems to have a 'go and and express yourself' way of coaching mentality rather than an actual focused gameplan that takes into account opponent strengths and weaknesses. I'm not convinced, imo Wenger is a has-been, at the top level.

can i just say i did see a tatical masterclass in this game, we won 2-1 because of wengers subs. it was also the first game of our run to now losing only one game. not bad eh? give wenger some credit for that

[Cripps_orig]

I think he meant the FA Cup game when we were awful and had our asses handed to us by a piss poor Sunderland side

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think he meant the FA Cup game when we were awful and had our asses handed to us by a piss poor Sunderland side

ah i forgot that one. true we were shit but still my point still stands with regards to the ohter sunderland game. wenger has outwitted this season, mancini this week and the peoples manger twitchy. he outclassed them tatically and guess what, we fucking hammered those two sides

[Cripps_orig]

City have beaten us twice this season already...

As for Spuds, they too have beaten us. Might not have been by scoring 5 past us as we did them but ultimately as a great man once said "it doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning"

[The Verminator]

City have beaten us twice this season already...

As for Spuds, they too have beaten us. Might not have been by scoring 5 past us as we did them but ultimately as a great man once said "it doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning"

Vin Diesel is a great man? :ilt:

[Cripps_orig]

No

Dominic Toretto is :bow:

[Tipsychubbs]

can i just say i did see a tatical masterclass in this game, we won 2-1 because of wengers subs. it was also the first game of our run to now losing only one game. not bad eh? give wenger some credit for that

I'm gooner, I like to see the team do well, so I'll give him some credit for at least turning things around a bit (St. Totteringhams Day looks to be on again), but not too much credit because we really shouldn't be in this situation in the 1st place, like a dog scrapping around the table for scraps. We should be sitting at the table like the 2 Manchester clubs, and no, it doesn't take that level of investment to get there, just some shrewd signings and general good management on the pitch, and a more pro-active board.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Wenger proves that he has more than nine lives, can pull a number of rabbits out of his hat and seems to have an endless supply of get out of jail cards! for that I applaud him.

This was the first year that I heard myself say that I believed we may be better cutting our ties, there have been number of situations in which only the most blind would not be asking 'What the fuck is going on?' - However there have also been a couple of decent runs that only the blind would not be saying 'Hey, we're not that bad and that there is a better sense of balance and camaraderie about this team then there has been for a very long time, even though we supposedly lost our best players!'

We are third, we have created a gap between us and the team that was meant to be shitting all over us in terms of quality of football played and squad playing it - to be honest the only thing Spurs are better than us at doing is spunking their money. Us losing Cesc and Nasbo and them beating off the wolves and keeping Nasri's gay lover Modric was the sign of shifting winds. Well the wind is blowing back in our favour so sit and weep, you classless fools. That goes for Citeh too, if we had 10 more games rather than 6 then I would say second was not out of reach! who knows it may be enough!!!!

The upside is that there are signs that Wumger is thinking about (said we held breath) playing the transfer market slightly differently. I know, it is only Podolski that is being positively mentioned, but that is a step in the right direction. I pray that we do not hear 'the squad is good enough' or that 'we are waiting for players to come back' - the squad is not deep/strong enough, we do need more talent and the players already out injured or on loan, for the majority would do best to stay away. Dont want Nic, Vela, Denilson, Almunia and the like to darken our door again.

I have said and Letteres said earlier that any manager taking over from AW would not produce miracles in a flash, it would take time and some pain, that could be said for SAF too (although he is the best by a country mile) - however the time will come, maybe not early enough for the haters, cos I reckon AW is going to be around for another season but it will come. Who comes in would be wise to ask Wenger to leave that rabbit filled hat.......just in case

[Joker]

Wenger is not the best manager in the league, and won't be even if we finish 3rd. Tactically he has been extremely mediocre this seasson, and has regularly been outthought by managers in mid table and scrapping for relegation. Remember how MON set up Sunderland perfectly to beat us in the FA Cup? What was Wenger's strategy in response to that? Absolutely nothing, we tried the same thing over and over again and were dealt with comfortably.

If we look back over the last few seasons, there have been so many occasions when Wenger has played players out of position to the detriment of the team. I think of playing Bendtner on the right wing, Ramsey on the left in recent weeks, persisting with Denilson even though our midfield looked shorn of creativity, believing for some reason that Eboue could do a job in midfield, the list goes on. No top quality manager would haae continued to make these mistakes for so long. Fergie does commit mistakes, as does everyone, but what separates him from the rest is that he acts quickly to rectify it. Wenger, on the other hand, only "gets it" when it's too late.

Some people will say, "we shouldn't blame Wenger, it's the players' fault". But it is Wenger would bought the players in the first place, and if players like Squillaci, Park, Eboue, Denilson, Diaby, Almunia, Bischoff, etc are not good enough, then Wenger has to take a lot of the blame for failing to assesmble a squad of enough quality that can endure a whole season without collapsing at the end. This has been our achilles' heel for over 5 years, but Wenger has failed to rectify it. If you want to take of "Mental Strength", again, the buck stops with the manager. He has mainfestly failed to bring in enough experienced professionals who know the score and can be relied on in a crisis to help steer the team through stormy waters. This is why we have ultimately failed to win a tophry since 2005. Our last success was in the FA Cup, when we still had winners like Henry, Vieira, Edu, Bergkamp, Lauren, Lehmann etc playing. These were good/great players that Wenger signed, who could be relid on. However, since 2005, Wenger has abandoned looking at reality and persisted with his youth project, despite it failing to take us onto the next level. The fact that he didn't ditch the project until perhaps last summer is an idnictment of his managerial judgement.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i swear some people on here are just blinding ignoring any changes this season and hoping to god that nothing good happens in the summer just so they can come on here and go look we were right, wenger is a **** etc etc.


no surprise zimm has been quiet these last few weeks

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

no not at all.

but at the same time we aren't gullible enough to forget 7 awful years of absolute mediocre presence and constant mistakes being made.

any rational human being would understand this could easily be another small good run of form and not temporary, so until wenger does something that shows he's actually changed (this summer would be a good starting point) and the team do something spectacular, only then will we give him the credit he deserves. 4 months of good football when we've had 7 years of crap is not the call to our prayers.

wenger has done NOTHING out of the ordinary this season; we were out of all cups in march as usual, same defensive mistakes at the beginning of the season (as usual), neglected signing key players again (striker for example), and at the same time the board gave us a double whammy of a price increase and asset stripping to cope with. you think 10 good games makes up for all that? pfft.

but i guess this is exactly what the board want; a good run of form so they can milk every penny from fans like you for the next few years, selling you this 'vision' of our current crop being 'the future' and one day 'fulfilling our dreams'.

more like an endless cycle of crap that will never end under the current regime.

[Letters]

You make it sounds like the last 7 years has been unremittingly awful. If you only judge it by trophies I suppose but there have been loads of great moments and football in the last 7 years. This isn't 'a small good run of form'. Since October only Utd have won more points than us. It's hardly a few good games.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

to me it has.

same mistakes made? yes

mistakes neglected? yes

faith in an awful youth project? yes

playing players out of position? yes

no trophies? yes

paying substandard players too much? yes

milking the fans for their money? yes

being a shambles defensively? yes

only since xmas has many of these changed, but if you're expecting fans to forget 7 years of mediocre times for a couple of months of good football, then you're mistaken.

[LDG]

Nobody is saying they're being optimistic without caution though. Not even Wenger.

I just don't get how we have seen a very good run of form, and people can't be a little optimistic about the future....

It's cautious optimism from all concerned, which will turn into more faithful optimism IF we do the right things from now until August.

I'm still wary of this side faltering before the end of the season, believe me. We're not assured of anything yet.

But what is the harm in giving credit to the team and to the manager for what they have achieved recently? Surely being congratulatory is better than whacking them at every opportunity?? You can see how they're feeling off the fans just recently....and in turn we've fed off some very good performances.

Just enjoy it for fucks sake.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Nobody is saying they're being optimistic without caution though. Not even Wenger.

I just don't get how we have seen a very good run of form, and people can't be a little optimistic about the future....

It's cautious optimism from all concerned, which will turn into more faithful optimism IF we do the right things from now until August.

I'm still wary of this side faltering before the end of the season, believe me. We're not assured of anything yet.

But what is the harm in giving credit to the team and to the manager for what they have achieved recently? Surely being congratulatory is better than whacking them at every opportunity?? You can see how they're feeling off the fans just recently....and in turn we've fed off some very good performances.

Just enjoy it for fucks sake.

but we've seen it before.

a good run of form and the team looking good, only to be followed by capitulation. believe me i'm enjoying it, im celebrating every goal like a madman, but that doesn't reduce the underlying worry in my stomach regarding the direction of our club. and its a justified worry imo.

you say you cant believe 'how we have seen a very good run of form, and people can't be a little optimistic about the future', well i can flip that and say 'i cant believe how we have seen another good run of form, and people all of a sudden are overly optimistic about the future'.

[Marc Overmars]

27 points from 30...that's excellent form under any circumstance. Credit where it's due. Next season is next season, we'll cross that bridge when it comes but for now we've put together some form that no one thought we were capable of, and overhauled Spurs who we feared would finish above us. It's just nice to look forward to games again. This time last year was very draining losing every other week and rarely winning games, complete contrast now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

to me it has.

same mistakes made? yes

mistakes neglected? yes

faith in an awful youth project? yes

playing players out of position? yes

no trophies? yes

paying substandard players too much? yes

milking the fans for their money? yes

being a shambles defensively? yes

only since xmas has many of these changed, but if you're expecting fans to forget 7 years of mediocre times for a couple of months of good football, then you're mistaken.

You can say the last 3 years have been poor and they have, but the 1st 4 years, its was obvious we had no money as it was all in repaying off tthe stadium debt.

So we all knew top 4 was the target for 4 years and we achieved that. We were never going to win the league or even CL in that time and we all knew it. and even though we probs should have gone for the CC or fa cup, still think we were to inexprienced.

The last 3 years of the 7 is where i agree, i think the club found a safety net with 4th saw it could make them more money and deccied to stick with it maybe when they should not.

Last years team was good enough to win anything and we should have. but we bottled it pretty much and think we had players who seemed not to care as much.

This season i think we do, we have players who seem to love the club and want to play for the shirt.

Does this mean i think were going to spend billions in the summer and become world beaters next season? No but im happy because for the 1st time in a few years i can enjoy Arsenal again.

No one knows what the future holds and only summer whill tell us where we really are.

The way i see it the club and Manager know what they need to do to improve us, they know how the fans feel. Only summer will tell us if they do these things, right now looks likely but who knows.

I can't say last summer i was this excited for the season ahead, i was dreading it like most.

Im happy i feel the team has a good core and whoever them manager maybe come summer he will have a good base to work around.

[Letters]

but we've seen it before.

a good run of form and the team looking good, only to be followed by capitulation. believe me i'm enjoying it, im celebrating every goal like a madman, but that doesn't reduce the underlying worry in my stomach regarding the direction of our club. and its a justified worry imo.

you say you cant believe 'how we have seen a very good run of form, and people can't be a little optimistic about the future', well i can flip that and say 'i cant believe how we have seen another good run of form, and people all of a sudden are overly optimistic about the future'.

I do think there's cause for caution, I've outlined over and over why I see differences this time. What I don't get is that you seem to be dismissing it as 'a few good games' when it clearly isn't. God alone knows why I bothered but here are the tables now, after 7 games and the difference. Only Utd have more points than us in the mean time and it's not a few good games it's 26 games where we've out scored everyone (Only City have the same) and won more points than anyone bar Utd:

Now:
Utd P33 W25 D4 L4 F78 A28 Pts 79
Cit P33 W23 D5 L5 F79 A26 Pts 74
Ars P33 W20 D4 L9 F66 A41 Pts 64
Spu P33 W17 D8 L8 F57 A38 Pts 59

After 7 games:
Utd P7 W6 D1 L0 F24 A5 Pts 19
Cit P7 W6 D1 L0 F23 A5 Pts 19
Spu P7 W4 D1 L2 F13 A12 Pts 13
Ars P7 W2 D1 L4 F10 A16 Pts 7

Difference
Utd P26 W19 D3 L4 F54 A23 Pts 60
Ars P26 W18 D3 L4 F56 A25 Pts 57
Cit P26 W17 D4 L5 F56 A21 Pts 55
Spu P26 W13 D6 L4 F44 A26 Pts 45

Now, I agree we've had other good runs and not pushed on, there is cause for cautious optimism rather than mindless optimism, but I and others have seen something different about this team which encourages us that it could (note the emphasis) be different this time. I've outlined elsewhere what those things are.

[LDG]

but we've seen it before.

a good run of form and the team looking good, only to be followed by capitulation. believe me i'm enjoying it, im celebrating every goal like a madman, but that doesn't reduce the underlying worry in my stomach regarding the direction of our club. and its a justified worry imo.

you say you cant believe 'how we have seen a very good run of form, and people can't be a little optimistic about the future', well i can flip that and say 'i cant believe how we have seen another good run of form, and people all of a sudden are overly optimistic about the future'.

I suppose whether it's whether you're predisposed to be optimistic of pessimistic then :lol:

In any case, I too share the same nagging doubts. It only takes us to get beaten by Chelsea, and get knobbled at the ground of Stoke thugs, and we're in the shit....I know this too well. But I do see a different kind of ethos working on this team. They don't seem to hide like denilson, nasri etc. And we're making far less mistakes at the back.

None of us can say for sure what will happen. But just going on what Wenger is saying, I don't think he is entertaining the possiblity of having the same kind of nightmare we witnessed last summer.

Fuck knows. He may do his business early, but that business may be a load of old shite. All I'm saying, is that there is a definite willingness from manager to players. And we're starting to get some of the constantly annoying bugbears from previous season ironed out.

There is definitely something different about this squad.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

i swear some people on here are just blinding ignoring any changes this season and hoping to god that nothing good happens in the summer just so they can come on here and go look we were right, wenger is a **** etc etc.


no surprise zimm has been quiet these last few weeks


TBF unlike some he did praise the team in the match reaction thread when we beat city. So he not been that bad.

[Flavs]

For the record

I don't think this team would capitulate the way people expect. We might slip sure, lose a couple here and there but i think the additions of Arteta and Metersacker and the riddance of Nasri and Clichy has reaped massive benefit for the team. I also think that we have more players who would jump into a fight than before for years we have had RvP as the aggressor and Fabregas as the impish one. Now we have Vermaelen, Kos, RvP, Arteta, Sagna and so on, they will take the knocks, stick a foot in and are steady eddies.

There i said it

[LDG]

For the record

I don't think this team would capitulate the way people expect. We might slip sure, lose a couple here and there but i think the additions of Arteta and Metersacker and the riddance of Nasri and Clichy has reaped massive benefit for the team. I also think that we have more players who would jump into a fight than before for years we have had RvP as the aggressor and Fabregas as the impish one. Now we have Vermaelen, Kos, RvP, Arteta, Sagna and so on, they will take the knocks, stick a foot in and are steady eddies.

There i said it

Yup :d

Bloody brilliant innit! :scarf:

[Flavs]

I think we are less talented but more stable

[LDG]

When the horse can smell the stable :bow:

[Letters]

When the seagulls follow the trawler :bow:

[Flavs]

"If god had meant football to be played in the air, there would be grass on clouds son"

:bow:

[Letters]

"Stick it up your bollocks" :bow:

[LDG]

"We'll see" :bow:

[GP]

'It's like buying a degree off the internet'

[Letters]

:lol:

Letters :bow:

[Özim]

I think it boils down to whether you trust Wenger to spend the money on the right players in the summer, I don't thus for me he has to go. We've done well recently, but our problems always come when we're trying to win something not when we're trying to come 3rd or 4th, in that sense we're no better this season. Our good run has coincided with us being knocked out of everything which still leaves a lot of question marks about our ability to last the distance.

We need to add some real quality to the squad this summer IMO, trouble is Wenger is always on the lookout for bargains and getting quality at bargain prices is hard, very hard (he often ignores the top players who go for bargains as well).

[Letters]

I do agree with some of that although it has to be said his 'bargains' are currently 3rd in the league which, after our awful start, isn't bad. He does seem to know what he's doing when it comes to building a decent squad on the cheap. And I'd be the first to admit I didn't think we had much of a squad this year but...well, we are 3rd and since October have got more points than anyone bar Utd. We have been carried a bit by RvP at times but others have stepped up recently and I'm more optimistic about things now than I have been for a long time.

Yes, we've failed to win a trophy again but we look like we've got something to build on. I'd agree it's not the first time but I also think changing managers would set us back and destroy the momentum we've built up. That might also be destroyed by another car-crash of a summer, especially if we lose RvP, but the Podolski thing encourages me that we're looking to get business done earlier this time.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think it boils down to whether you trust Wenger to spend the money on the right players in the summer, I don't thus for me he has to go. We've done well recently, but our problems always come when we're trying to win something not when we're trying to come 3rd or 4th, in that sense we're no better this season. Our good run has coincided with us being knocked out of everything which still leaves a lot of question marks about our ability to last the distance.

We need to add some real quality to the squad this summer IMO, trouble is Wenger is always on the lookout for bargains and getting quality at bargain prices is hard, very hard (he often ignores the top players who go for bargains as well).


Problem is there are not many bargins out there with top players as such. its only once in a while you may get them like the VDV thing and at the time we had Cesc there so its not like we had space for him. I guess is you look hard enough and its the right time you may land them.

Also i just don't think there are many World class players out there like their use to be 10-15 years ago.

When i say world class i mean on a messi to Ronaldo level. But now were in new age where the likes of Hazard and Gotze and OX are gearing up to be the next big thing and thats why people are paying for potential.

The days when an expensive player cost 20 mill was when we had loads of world class players, but AW could spot something special a mile off for cheaper.

Now its a case of put up or shut up. These days good players go for 20 Mill or more not great players but good players and this is why managers are skeptikal to pay big.

I do agree we need to add some qualtiy to the sqaud in the summer that is a must and no excuses from no one at the club should be made.

I can only hope we go into the summer and kick on from there.

[LDG]

I think it boils down to whether you trust Wenger to spend the money on the right players in the summer, I don't thus for me he has to go. We've done well recently, but our problems always come when we're trying to win something not when we're trying to come 3rd or 4th, in that sense we're no better this season. Our good run has coincided with us being knocked out of everything which still leaves a lot of question marks about our ability to last the distance.

We need to add some real quality to the squad this summer IMO, trouble is Wenger is always on the lookout for bargains and getting quality at bargain prices is hard, very hard (he often ignores the top players who go for bargains as well).

I agree to an extent about the bargain hunting. Though, I think this is down to his philosophy of trying to engage a team which isn't full of prima donnas and mental cases already corrupted by money and fame.

This is one of the reasons I think he went for youth. But that's backfired, because you're giving even younger people money and fame, and the end result is Samir Nasri. A **** of the highest order.

Arteta and the like are professionals, who work hard. Blend that with some of the talent we have, and see THAT rub off on the youth on the training ground, and I think we have a more sustainable model.

at the end of the day, we bought Sagna, Koscielny, Song, Arteta, all at reasonable prices, and are, with RVP, our best players this year.

You're right that we need to add quality. Vertongen, Podolski and a midfielder (if rumours be true), would be cracking business. And I think money will be made available this time round.

but as a great man once said. We'll see.

[Power n Glory]

Song's a product of our youth system. One of the very few that came from playing in the reserves, going out on loan and then making himself a regular in the first team.

[LDG]

Whoops.

[BOBN]

all i know is redknapp is the worst manager in the league by far. Hes threatening to finish below us with a team who are better than us to a man almost
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/46/immagine15x.png

the media best boys are taking one hell of a beating

[BOBN]

For the record

I don't think this team would capitulate the way people expect. We might slip sure, lose a couple here and there but i think the additions of Arteta and Metersacker and the riddance of Nasri and Clichy has reaped massive benefit for the team. I also think that we have more players who would jump into a fight than before for years we have had RvP as the aggressor and Fabregas as the impish one. Now we have Vermaelen, Kos, RvP, Arteta, Sagna and so on, they will take the knocks, stick a foot in and are steady eddies.

There i said it
Yep, we got rid of two absolute cowards in nasri and clichy and fabregas wasnt far behind.

Hes managed to pad out the squad and give it a solid base. Now he just needs to sprinkle a little world class magic on the top.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

BOBN's investigative journalism :bow: