Giroud Discourse

[Kano]

Yep, a well earned week off for Feo.

So Giroud is a ****....

Worse than Chamakh, Bendtner?

.....Go!!

[Marc Overmars]

He is terrible when he has time to shape up and shoot, more often than not ends up missing the target which is unforgivable.

Stick to the headers Big Sexy.

[GP]

Watch his all-round play. His finishing was off today, but he hold the ball up and plays others in brilliantly.

Goals will come. At least he's involved in the game, unlike Chamakh.

[Joker]

He just looks so clumsy in everything he does. He's useful when we punt the ball up to him or put crosses in (he almost scored a great header at the end) but we need more from our centre forwards. If Theo had performed like Giroud did today, we'd have the usual suspects gleefully slam him. IMO we should try Podolski in the centre forward position because Giroud's not good enough at the moment.

[milla]

Yep, a well earned week off for Feo.

So Giroud is a ****....

Worse than Chamakh, Bendtner?

.....Go!!

Its their manager's fault IMO. Wumger, turns gold into shite :bow:

[fakeyank]

Giroud is light years ahead of Chakma.

This doesnt say much because Chakma is so shit.

Giroud, if given proper service from midfield IMO is a good striker.. I think he makes good runs and pulls defenders with him. If we ever play a proper 4-4-2, I can see him being a really big asset.

[Power n Glory]

This is a wum thread, people. Not to be taken seriously.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Watch his all-round play. His finishing was off today, but he hold the ball up and plays others in brilliantly.

Goals will come. At least he's involved in the game, unlike Chamakh.

Thing is, the time for goals is now... He arrived at a time when honeymoon periods are ill-afforded.

Not a bad player if he was at a QPr or a Soton, just not what we need.

[GP]

Thing is, the time for goals is now... He arrived at a time when honeymoon periods are ill-afforded.

Not a bad player if he was at a QPr or a Soton, just not what we need.

He's the best we have. Like it or not, we look a far worse side without him.

[BlindFaith_8]

It was reported on SSN that ******* had been watching Dember BA at the same time he was scouting Giroud, but went for Giroud!
:haha:
Wenger said: "It was Giroud or Demba Ba in the summer — they are very similar players. I was a bit cautious about the noises on Ba’s knee injury, but someone told me the problem he has is manageable and can be prevented."

Yet he signed Overmars who had a dodgy knee because he was a risk taker and had steel balls. Now he's a loser with no ambition.

[GP]

It was reported on SSN that ******* had been watching Dember BA at the same time he was scouting Giroud, but went for Giroud!
:haha:
Wenger said: "It was Giroud or Demba Ba in the summer — they are very similar players. I was a bit cautious about the noises on Ba’s knee injury, but someone told me the problem he has is manageable and can be prevented."

You spelt Wenger wrong.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

He's the best we have. Like it or not, we look a far worse side without him.

Imagine then how we'd look with someone who did the attributed to him, plus scored needed goals.

[GP]

Imagine then how we'd look with someone who did the attributed to him, plus scored needed goals.

The goals will come.

[Niall_Quinn]

The goals will come.

At the rate if one a year.

[Boss]

It was reported on SSN that ******* had been watching Dember BA at the same time he was scouting Giroud, but went for Giroud!
:haha:
Wenger said: "It was Giroud or Demba Ba in the summer — they are very similar players. I was a bit cautious about the noises on Ba’s knee injury, but someone told me the problem he has is manageable and can be prevented."

Yet he signed Overmars who had a dodgy knee because he was a risk taker and had steel balls. Now he's a loser with no ambition.

Giroud has 9 goals and 8 assists in 17 starts this season.

Ba has 16 goals in 23 starts this season.

Yep.

[selassie]

It was reported on SSN that ******* had been watching Dember BA at the same time he was scouting Giroud, but went for Giroud!
:haha:
Wenger said: "It was Giroud or Demba Ba in the summer — they are very similar players. I was a bit cautious about the noises on Ba’s knee injury, but someone told me the problem he has is manageable and can be prevented."

Yet he signed Overmars who had a dodgy knee because he was a risk taker and had steel balls. Now he's a loser with no ambition.

He had the chance to buy Ba again recently and still refused, I just don't get Wenger TBH. He won't pay the BIG prices and then refuses to pay peanuts for Established PL strikers. Ba would score a bucketload of goals for us.

[Özim]

Ba is clearly a much better finisher than Giroud and you'd be a fool to sign Giroud over him if you wanted goals. The latter seems to take 5 chances to score one, missed some real sitters today.

He's basically good enough to be a backup and nothing else, we need a quality striker to play regularly.

[Özim]

Imagine then how we'd look with someone who did the attributed to him, plus scored needed goals.
Pretty much, a decent striker would make a big difference.

[gunnerrrrr]

Giroud has 9 goals and 8 assists in 17 starts this season.

Ba has 16 goals in 23 starts this season.

Yep.

and imagine how many goals Ba would have scored playing in this Arsenal team with Carzola, Wilshire etc supplying him with endless chances.....

Yep.

[Kano]

and imagine how many goals Ba would have scored playing in this Arsenal team with Carzola, Wilshire etc supplying him with endless chances.....

Yep.

have you seen our games this season? not sure about endless chances. probably would've scored one or two more than he has already - definitely wouldn't be ahead of rvp.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Giroud is an aesthetically pleasing oaf. actually what annoys me about him is his heading. Eight times out of ten he mistimes his jump when they punt it towards him. Hangs in the air, descends and then gets beaten to it.

[Kryptonite]

Rubbish signing really! In the summer spending 15m (so extra 3m) could have got us Ba, Huntelaar or Michu. Giroud misses too many chances. Nowhere near as good as theo or podolski. Whatever happened to having strikers that know where the net is!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Trouble is once we put these Chamakh and giroud type players on the stage everyone can see so we can't get rid of them. We need to p,at behind closed doors with a TV blackout and beefed up security.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think he's a rubbish signing, he's more than capable of doing a job for us. The problem is we don't need someone to just to a job, we need class. That chance today was bread and butter but it's not the first time he's fluffed his lines in that sort of situation. Brilliant at the "big number 9" work but we need a lot more than that because we're well off the pace.

[Özim]

Giroud was the cut price option we always take, a good player but nothing more and certainly not good enough to be the man we rely on for goals. Wenger is so cheap he never spends on quality and instead looks at the price before looking at what we actually need.

Giroud isn't the player we should have signed and is never going to be able to deliver what we need, buy a striker and stick Giroud on the bench for cameo displays when needed.

Someone should start questioning Wenger's transfer policy in interviews to see what he actually says because they're not delivering the goods.

[Kano]

Giroud was the cut price option we always take, a good player but nothing more and certainly not good enough to be the man we rely on for goals. Wenger is so cheap he never spends on quality and instead looks at the price before looking at what we actually need.

Giroud isn't the player we should have signed and is never going to be able to deliver what we need, buy a striker and stick Giroud on the bench for cameo displays when needed.

Someone should start questioning Wenger's transfer policy in interviews to see what he actually says because they're not delivering the goods.
what for, he'll just deliver the same non-committal replies he always gives. ever since he arrived at the club that has all he has ever said is the same thing, yet 16 years later people still look for clues.

[DJ Philosophe]

Still I am baffled why we don't play Podolski(i know he was sick today) at Striker....I always thought he and Giroud were to replace RVP, both at Striker fighting for the top spot. Not Poldi as a winger and Giroud up top, Poldi is wasted out there cause all he wants to do is drift in...same with Walcott, it defeats the purpose of creating width. Let 2 of the 3 of them play up top and have one drift wide like Henry used when the time is needed....

Wenger seems to over-complicate the game by playing players constantly out of position and forcing it...instead of changing the formation to fit the players we have on the pitch....VERY FRUSTRATING!

[Özim]

what for, he'll just deliver the same non-committal replies he always gives. ever since he arrived at the club that has all he has ever said is the same thing, yet 16 years later people still look for clues.
When I said I ask him, I meant grill him by countering his answers with facts about their performances, no more nice interviews where he gets asked simple questions without any comeback.

[Kano]

he'd slide his way out of it - he always does. he knows how to play the game, just like any politician.

reporters would never grill because they like him and want to maintain their access.

the reporters stay just the right side of nice to get what they want in the long run - even down to how they rate players in games.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger seems to over-complicate the game by playing players constantly out of position and forcing it...instead of changing the formation to fit the players we have on the pitch....VERY FRUSTRATING!

This is why we badly need a change of manager to implement some new ideas and raise the mood of the team. Wenget has spoken about using Barca as a blueprint but our style of play is nothing like theirs at all. We don't have the players for it yet we persist with the same old tried, tested and failed tactics. Chelsea fans were singing 'Arsene Wenger, we want you to stay' with good reason today.

[Boss]

Ba is clearly a much better finisher than Giroud and you'd be a fool to sign Giroud over him if you wanted goals. The latter seems to take 5 chances to score one, missed some real sitters today.

He's basically good enough to be a backup and nothing else, we need a quality striker to play regularly.

As of three games ago (can't find updated stats), Ba had a worse conversion rate than everyone's favourite 'clinical' striker Fernando Torres.

http://a.espncdn.com//design05/images/2013/0107/dembabavfernandotorresgraphic_576x324.jpg

[Xhaka Can’t]

and imagine how many goals Ba would have scored playing in this Arsenal team with Carzola, Wilshire etc supplying him with endless chances.....

Yep.

Endless chances are a thing of the past.

In fact the chances are so rare, when one is missed, even if half a chance, it is blown up out of massive proportion.

[Boss]

and imagine how many goals Ba would have scored playing in this Arsenal team with Carzola, Wilshire etc supplying him with endless chances.....

Yep.

Endless chances :lol:

Talk to me after you've watched one of our games.

[GP]

Sorry, who's played out of position?

[Marc Overmars]

Ah those heady days where we'd create multiple chances a game and sometimes even have more than 3 shots on target. :cloud9:

[milla]

Sorry, who's played out of position?

Your face :coffee:

[GP]

Your face :coffee:

My face has the versatility to play anywhere.

[Özim]

As of three games ago (can't find updated stats), Ba had a worse conversion rate than everyone's favourite 'clinical' striker Fernando Torres.

http://a.espncdn.com//design05/images/2013/0107/dembabavfernandotorresgraphic_576x324.jpg
The thing about the stats is they don't tell you where the chances were, how far from goal etc there's no context so they don't really give you a perfectly accurate picture of one players performance vs another.

We can talk about Giroud however as we've seen him miss a host of chances in matches, chance he should have put away.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Stats :haha:

I thought people would have stopped using those the minute it showed us having the best defence in the league a few months back.

[Kano]

As of three games ago (can't find updated stats), Ba had a worse conversion rate than everyone's favourite 'clinical' striker Fernando Torres.

http://a.espncdn.com//design05/images/2013/0107/dembabavfernandotorresgraphic_576x324.jpg
so he converts more from less, gets more shots on goal and still manages to score 50% less than ba. sounds like a man at the top of his game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sorry, who's played out of position?

Wenger, he should be in Gringots instead of on the touchline.

[KSE Comedy Club]

When I saw the thread title I thought it was going to point out how shit a manager wenger has become, but then I see that it's about giroud, a player who has only been here in this league for 6 months and hasn't had enough full games to settle in yet.

But I guess that's normal round here :coffee:

[-Xs-]

Time for a change?

Yep, I think the board and Wenger agree; looks like our change will be no more champs league after this season.

[BlindFaith_8]

The whole thing is a mess, at Highbury with 38,5000 and boxes only on the clockend, we used to attract top quality players minus a 2-3 misfits, but in general we still had a wage structure and our transfer policy was always done professionally, and we were never in any danger of going under or carried any bad debt. Everything seemed rosey, 5 years later we have the worst squad since I can remember with average players, we have bought badly not cheaply because we have spent money on Carzola and on Podolski and Giroud. I think our scouting network is 10 years backwards and that needs to be overhauled. A club like Arsenal should bre ahead of Newcastles scouting or Swansea's, no disrepect to the clubs mentioned. It just seems that ******* wants to do manage everything from being the tea lady, the coach driver and the financial director of the club. ******* should not renew his contract, let him see out the season as there is no way he'll walk and no chance of the board sacking him as he makes far too much money. Would be like selling your top saleman to a competitor. Anyway shit day but exepcted, as long as ******* is Le Boss it will get worse before it gets better.

[GP]

The whole thing is a mess, at Highbury with 38,5000 and boxes only on the clockend, we used to attract top quality players minus a 2-3 misfits, but in general we still had a wage structure and our transfer policy was always done professionally, and we were never in any danger of going under or carried any bad debt. Everything seemed rosey, 5 years later we have the worst squad since I can remember with average players, we have bought badly not cheaply because we have spent money on Carzola and on Podolski and Giroud. I think our scouting network is 10 years backwards and that needs to be overhauled. A club like Arsenal should bre ahead of Newcastles scouting or Swansea's, no disrepect to the clubs mentioned. It just seems that ******* wants to do manage everything from being the tea lady, the coach driver and the financial director of the club. ******* should not renew his contract, let him see out the season as there is no way he'll walk and no chance of the board sacking him as he makes far too much money. Would be like selling your top saleman to a competitor. Anyway shit day but exepcted, as long as ******* is Le Boss it will get worse before it gets better.

Buying top players (the ones we've all heard of) has nothing to do with scouting.

And you've spelt Wenger wrong again, several times.

[Kano]

The whole thing is a mess, at Highbury with 38,5000 and boxes only on the clockend, we used to attract top quality players minus a 2-3 misfits, but in general we still had a wage structure and our transfer policy was always done professionally, and we were never in any danger of going under or carried any bad debt. Everything seemed rosey, 5 years later we have the worst squad since I can remember with average players, we have bought badly not cheaply because we have spent money on Carzola and on Podolski and Giroud. I think our scouting network is 10 years backwards and that needs to be overhauled. A club like Arsenal should bre ahead of Newcastles scouting or Swansea's, no disrepect to the clubs mentioned. It just seems that ******* wants to do manage everything from being the tea lady, the coach driver and the financial director of the club. ******* should not renew his contract, let him see out the season as there is no way he'll walk and no chance of the board sacking him as he makes far too much money. Would be like selling your top saleman to a competitor. Anyway shit day but exepcted, as long as ******* is Le Boss it will get worse before it gets better.

the squad isn't amazing but should be competitive with chelsea and tottenham - as we've seen when we've played them. with a different manager the team would not start most games half asleep and we'd control a lot more games but the players know that they are in little danger of real reprehension under wenger. so no, things are not as bleak as you paint but unfortunately whilst wenger is in charge we will not see anything close to the full potential of any team we put out on the pitch.

[BlindFaith_8]

Buying top players (the ones we've all heard of) has nothing to do with scouting.

And you've spelt Wenger wrong again, several times.

It's a joke, becuase he whinges all the time, hence *******. If it hasnt got to do with scouting did ******* simply go for big names? Not sure I understand where your coming from.

[Cripps_orig]

Yep, a well earned week off for Feo.

So Giroud is a ****....

Worse than Chamakh, Bendtner?

.....Go!!

Miles better than Bendtner. Nowhere near Chamakhs level though.

No movement, pace, finishing etc. our game completely fucks up when he starts up front.

[GP]

It's a joke, becuase he whinges all the time, hence *******. If it hasnt got to do with scouting did ******* simply go for big names? Not sure I understand where your coming from.

What are you, 5?

[Niall_Quinn]

What are you, 5?

Yes he is 5 as it happens, leave him alone you fucking bully.

[milla]

When I saw the thread title I thought it was going to point out how shit a manager wenger has become, but then I see that it's about giroud, a player who has only been here in this league for 6 months and hasn't had enough full games to settle in yet.

But I guess that's normal round here :coffee:

7 years of rot, don't bale the players. Blame the manager and the board. :gp:

[Özim]

It's a joke, becuase he whinges all the time, hence *******. If it hasnt got to do with scouting did ******* simply go for big names? Not sure I understand where your coming from.
Perfect name for the guy to be honest, because like you say he whinges endlessly about everything.

He use to be a glorified scout, now he can't even do that properly anymore.

He's done, he needs to go now, he's incapable of bringing in quality and improving the team, in his own deluded little mind they're world beaters.

His successes are now a distant memory, it's becoming quite hard to remember what we once were.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Perfect name for the guy to be honest, because like you say he whinges endlessly about everything.

He use to be a glorified scout, now he can't even do that properly anymore.

He's done, he needs to go now, he's incapable of bringing in quality and improving the team, in his own deluded little mind they're world beaters.

did he fuck. he used to be one of the greatest managers england has ever seen. his style, the unbeatables the trophies. dont take the piss and call him a scout because you hate him now. its fucking pathetic.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Perfect name for the guy to be honest, because like you say he whinges endlessly about everything.

.

http://static.go4celebrity.com/wallpapers/Alanis-Morissette/Alanis-Morissette-005.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://static.go4celebrity.com/wallpapers/Alanis-Morissette/Alanis-Morissette-005.jpg

i was a bit worried at the initial length of that link, i thought it might have been child porn

[Özim]

did he fuck. he used to be one of the greatest managers england has ever seen. his style, the unbeatables the trophies. dont take the piss and call him a scout because you hate him now. its fucking pathetic.
A great manager doesn't go from winning to doing f*ck all for 7+ years sorry. The fact he's been incapable of reproducing anything makes you question his achievements somewhat and wonder whether he was just in the right place at the right time with his knowledge of French football.

When he arrived he had a massive advantage and used that well, but on a level playing field he shown himself to be inadequate and unable to compete with other teams, he's had years to build a team and yet we've been going backwards.

Like I said his successes are a distant memory, it's beginning to be hard to remember that under Wenger, now we remember failure and lack of bottle on the pitch and boring repetitive play coupled with endless excuses.

[Özim]

http://static.go4celebrity.com/wallpapers/Alanis-Morissette/Alanis-Morissette-005.jpg
No.

No.

It's not my type.

No thanks.

[Ollie the Optimist]

A great manager doesn't go from winning to doing f*ck all for 7+ years sorry. The fact he's been incapable of reproducing anything makes you question his achievements somewhat and wonder whether he was just in the right place at the right time with his knowledge of French football.

When he arrived he had a massive advantage and used that well, but on a level playing field he shown himself to be inadequate and unable to compete with other teams, he's had years to build a team and yet we've been going backwards.

Like I said his successes are a distant memory, it's beginning to be hard to remember that under Wenger, now we remember failure and lack of bottle on the pitch and boring repetitive play coupled with endless excuses.

its only hard to remember his success when blinded by hatred :good:

using your logic of right place right time, that means if a new manager comes in and uses pretty much the same squad and wins a trophy in his first season, then its because of wenger for building the squad right?

and what advantage is this you talk of which you say he had when he arrived? the one where we were fighting for fourth, and he took us to the top?

[Özim]

its only hard to remember his success when blinded by hatred :good:

using your logic of right place right time, that means if a new manager comes in and uses pretty much the same squad and wins a trophy in his first season, then its because of wenger for building the squad right?

and what advantage is this you talk of which you say he had when he arrived? the one where we were fighting for fourth, and he took us to the top?
Not really not, it's a long time ago now a lot has happened since then.

A new manager would never use the same squad, but ultimately Wenger has shown incapable of making a winning team out of this lot, if someone else manages it, that's because they clearly are a better manager and can get the best out of substandard players.

He knew the French market and about all the best young french players, so he used that to sign them up when other clubs didn't have the scouting systems and new nothing about them, he also inherited a great defence, a top top forward (he actually had two but sold one) and a player who was one of the best leaders you'll ever be. That combination allowed him to build a winning team and a second winning team built with the experience, leadership and winning mentality of that first team.

He did know a lot about diet etc I'll give him that and that helped the careers of the some of the older players.

[Letters]

Perfect name for the guy to be honest, because like you say he whinges endlessly about everything.
http://sketchyfresh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/extreme-ironing-02.jpg

[GP]

http://sketchyfresh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/extreme-ironing-02.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wJ_kz_43N7A/TNcM7Ia058I/AAAAAAAAAC4/XNH02gyqJeY/s1600/extreme_ironing.jpg

[Power n Glory]

A great manager doesn't go from winning to doing f*ck all for 7+ years sorry. The fact he's been incapable of reproducing anything makes you question his achievements somewhat and wonder whether he was just in the right place at the right time with his knowledge of French football.

When he arrived he had a massive advantage and used that well, but on a level playing field he shown himself to be inadequate and unable to compete with other teams, he's had years to build a team and yet we've been going backwards.

Like I said his successes are a distant memory, it's beginning to be hard to remember that under Wenger, now we remember failure and lack of bottle on the pitch and boring repetitive play coupled with endless excuses.

That's the truth of the matter. His legacy and genius is being called into question because of the past 7 years. His record has been that poor. It's the same with all things in life and sport. With boxing, there are many champions but the all-time greats are ranked above everyone else because they fought the best and competed in a tough era. David Haye and the Klitschko Brothers will never go down as greats because the heavyweight division in boxing is weak compared to the time Ali and Frazier were fighting. If Murray has to weight until Federer and Nadal bow out of the game before winning more grandslams, he can't be considered the best of his generation.

Wenger has had a real test on his hands over the past few years and more elite managers with experience of winning trophies have stepped into the league. More coaches have access to scouts, fitness and diet information...it's more of a level playing field and he's being made to look really bad. A manager of his supposed calibre shouldn't be dropping points to caretaker managers and rookie managers to this league.

[Kano]

well, says us lot, some muppets on a message board.

however, ask anyone in the game and they will put you straight on the question of his 'legacy' being called into question.

and like it or not - and by the looks of it some won't - it will be those in the game that certify his place in the game, not a bunch of fed up fans who pass off quick judgements on a keyboard.

i was hesitant to label the thread with this title, because i knew it would just descend into the same dull, boring, repetitive wenger bollocks.

[Kano]

problem solved.

[Marc Overmars]

First ever 'the muppet' thread for one of our own players.

A precedent has been set.

[KSE Comedy Club]

First ever 'the muppet' thread for one of our own players.

A precedent has been set.

Pretty shameful tbh.

Some people on here refuse to call wenger out for turning into a shit muppet who's been here for years and produced zilch in the last 7, yet they'll happily do it to a new player who hasn't even had a chance to settle into the PL yet.

Same with Cathorla, and it happened to Chamakh as well.

[Niall_Quinn]

Chamakh deserved it for some many reasons it would be better to use the search feature and pick your favourite. Giroud tries for the team so hopefully the fans will take that into account. He's not really a top striker, he's an average player. It's easy enough to see. Same as Bendtner but without the mouth, another reason to give him a bit of credit. We had one of the world's very best players up top last season so just about anyone coming in was going to be disadvantaged. Every time Giroud misses from now on we should groan and shout, "Kroenke! You greedy ****!" If that bastard was in any way serious about the football side of this club he would have chucked his chequebook on the table the minute he gained control and orderer everyone to press on. Opposite happened. We sold even bigger, more vital players and got inferior players in to replace them. Giroud is one of those inferior players.

[Kano]

Discourse?! you could've done better than that ffs.

[Letters]

That's the truth of the matter. His legacy and genius is being called into question because of the past 7 years. His record has been that poor.
Well no, it hasn't. Clough had a lot of success with Forest and Derby in the 70s but then won very little after that (OK, a European Cup in 1980 so his success crept into the 80s, but very little after that). And he ended up taking Forest down. No-one doubts he was a great manager in his day though.

For all his failings over the last 7 years Wenger has kept us top 4 every year, we haven't dropped into mid-table, or worse (yet!). You may not value that as an achievement the board clearly do and so to most of football - clubs like Liverpool and Spurs have spent a lot of money trying to get into the top 4 without much success. Given that he has kept us up there he should have won a few trophies but it's no mean feat in an era of billionaires.

Ferguson will go down, rightly so, as an all time great manager. Possibly the all time great manager. Fergie was Wenger's competition when he joined Arsenal and Utd were already established as the dominant side of the 90s. For the first half of Wenger's time with us they stood toe to toe, Wenger arguably got the better of him in the early noughties. He has failed to maintain that, partly because of the billionaires, partly because other clubs have caught up with his training methods and scouting which initially gave us an edge, partly because of his own damn stubbornness. But let's not get all revisionist about it, in his day he was brilliant and transformed the club from a boring mid-table club into the best team in the country playing a fantastic style of football.

[Gooner23]

His biggest weakness over the last few years has been stubborness. Determined to take on the big spenders in his own way. He gambled, and failed.. and is now so cacooned in a personal obsession to prove everyone wrong that it is detrimental to all the good things he did in his early tenure. I've contemplated if he's in on a scam to make the board as rich as possible, but I just can't bring myself to believe it.

But I agree, he will still go down as a great manager, regardless of the shambles we have seen recently.

And to call him a glorified scout who got lucky is ridiculous.

[Letters]

The damned annoying thing is he didn't fail by much, that Eduardo year...we really should have won it that year and had we done so it would have been his greatest achievement. If only he'd swallowed his pride a bit, kept that side together and spent to strengthen - he didn't need to break the bank, a couple of decent players would have done it - we could have pushed on :(

[Grebbo]

The damned annoying thing is he didn't fail by much, that Eduardo year...we really should have won it that year and had we done so it would have been his greatest achievement. If only he'd swallowed his pride a bit, kept that side together and spent to strengthen - he didn't need to break the bank, a couple of decent players would have done it - we could have pushed on :(

Aye, one of life's mysteries.

[Kano]

nice work letters. i change the title and still the same shite.

[Letters]

Are you new here?

[Seymour Butts]

Not sure why this guy is getting a hard time to be honest. Granted his goal return could be better. However he gets in good positions, has good hold up play, great link up play and is involved in the game constantly. He looks fairly dangerous and is constantly asking questions of defenders. I would be more worried if he was contributing nothing. His all round play and positioning is good enough to suggest that the goals will come. I think he has been unlucky too where he has had shots blocked with legs etc where on other days those fly in and instead of netting none he could have had a brace. Think he has done enough in his first season to suggest he has a bit about him and given the right service he will get goals

[Kano]

<_<

[Gooner23]

Not sure why this guy is getting a hard time to be honest. Granted his goal return could be better. However he gets in good positions, has good hold up play, great link up play and is involved in the game constantly. He looks fairly dangerous and is constantly asking questions of defenders. I would be more worried if he was contributing nothing. His all round play and positioning is good enough to suggest that the goals will come. I think he has been unlucky too where he has had shots blocked with legs etc where on other days those fly in and instead of netting none he could have had a brace. Think he has done enough in his first season to suggest he has a bit about him and given the right service he will get goals

Yeah I dont mind him either. Clearly not in the same class as some of our previous legends, but better than a lot of the dross weve had over the years too. I think he'd be great as a back up striker or to go that pundit cliche 'Plan B'. But we do need a top top top striker still, a proper goal scorer.

[Letters]

Not sure why this guy is getting a hard time to be honest. Granted his goal return could be better. However he gets in good positions, has good hold up play, great link up play and is involved in the game constantly. He looks fairly dangerous and is constantly asking questions of defenders. I would be more worried if he was contributing nothing. His all round play and positioning is good enough to suggest that the goals will come. I think he has been unlucky too where he has had shots blocked with legs etc where on other days those fly in and instead of netting none he could have had a brace. Think he has done enough in his first season to suggest he has a bit about him and given the right service he will get goals
He had a 'mare on Sunday but at least he was involved in plenty unlike, say, Arshavin who came on and added nothing at all.
He ain't RvP but not many players are, he's ok.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Out of interest, how many better strikers in the league can you name?

This is not a leading question. I am Giroud agnostic.

[GP]

He had a 'mare on Sunday but at least he was involved in plenty unlike, say, Arshavin who came on and added nothing at all.
He ain't RvP but not many players are, he's ok.

He was only really given one chance, that shot that went just wide early on. He had a header later on that Cahill did well to defend.

That shot aside, he did well vs. chelsea. He makes a big difference to the side because he's an outlet, you know if you play the ball into him that he'll hold on to it.

I like him.

[GP]

Out of interest, how many better strikers in the league can you name?

This is not a leading question. I am Giroud agnostic.

Just Carlton Cole and Danny Graham.

[Gooner23]

I'd go with (in no particular order);

Aguero, Tevez, Djeko (just), RVP, Hernandez, Ba, Suarez and Michu.

Rooney probably as well, although hes been utter crap this season.

[Power n Glory]

Well no, it hasn't. Clough had a lot of success with Forest and Derby in the 70s but then won very little after that (OK, a European Cup in 1980 so his success crept into the 80s, but very little after that). And he ended up taking Forest down. No-one doubts he was a great manager in his day though.

For all his failings over the last 7 years Wenger has kept us top 4 every year, we haven't dropped into mid-table, or worse (yet!). You may not value that as an achievement the board clearly do and so to most of football - clubs like Liverpool and Spurs have spent a lot of money trying to get into the top 4 without much success. Given that he has kept us up there he should have won a few trophies but it's no mean feat in an era of billionaires.

Ferguson will go down, rightly so, as an all time great manager. Possibly the all time great manager. Fergie was Wenger's competition when he joined Arsenal and Utd were already established as the dominant side of the 90s. For the first half of Wenger's time with us they stood toe to toe, Wenger arguably got the better of him in the early noughties. He has failed to maintain that, partly because of the billionaires, partly because other clubs have caught up with his training methods and scouting which initially gave us an edge, partly because of his own damn stubbornness. But let's not get all revisionist about it, in his day he was brilliant and transformed the club from a boring mid-table club into the best team in the country playing a fantastic style of football.

It's being called into question right now. Like it or not. When his story is told, this is part of the chapter that will be told and won't be brushed over. He's never successfully defended a title or won a the Champions League and that's going to put him down as one of the good managers but not elite. When polls are done on the greatest managers, he may come outside of the top 10 and that's a real shame. It's not a bad thing to be where he is but I always considered him as one of the elites and bragged when talking to other fans about his skill. That's just not the case anymore.

Clough had that period where he fell off but he also took that team to win the highest honour and was pretty dominant in his time. Wenger hasn't been dominant over Fergie, he's never won back to back titles as said and while we have the Invincible season, he has the Treble. They were on par at a certain period where it was a debate over who was better, it's not even a debate anymore, Fergie has gone clear of Wenger and surpassed him. We never used to praise Fergie in this way before when we were going head to head with his team. We always thought we had the better manager. Now we're admitting defeat. No shame in Wenger's record when you look at it but if it all ends tomorrow you get a sense that he didn't quite reach the heights we expected. In fact, I'm sure when he's retired and reflects back, he'll have regrets about not winning Europe as his peers have done. It's got to sting his ego a bit.

[Özim]

Out of interest, how many better strikers in the league can you name?

This is not a leading question. I am Giroud agnostic.
Aguero, Tevez, Dzeko, RVP, Rooney, Hernandes, Ba, Michu, Benteke, Balotelli, Suarez.

That's without even thinking about it.

[Power n Glory]

Giroud is easy to mark out a game and that's why he won't get many chances on goal. A fast more mobile and nimble striker will be able to lose Cahill and slip behind the defence.

[Gooner23]

Aguero, Tevez, Dzeko, RVP, Rooney, Hernandes, Ba, Michu, Benteke, Balotelli, Suarez.

That's without even thinking about it.

Disagree with Balotelli, and Benteke hasn't really proved anything yet IMO.

Agree with the others though, and can't understand why we didnt go for Ba.

[Özim]

It's being called into question right now. Like it or not. When his story is told, this is part of the chapter that will be told and won't be brushed over. He's never successfully defended a title or won a the Champions League and that's going to put him down as one of the good managers but not elite. When polls are done on the greatest managers, he may come outside of the top 10 and that's a real shame. It's not a bad thing to be where he is but I always considered him as one of the elites and bragged when talking to other fans about his skill. That's just not the case anymore.

Clough had that period where he fell off but he also took that team to win the highest honour and was pretty dominant in his time. Wenger hasn't been dominant over Fergie, he's never won back to back titles as said and while we have the Invincible season, he has the Treble. They were on par at a certain period where it was a debate over who was better, it's not even a debate anymore, Fergie has gone clear of Wenger and surpassed him. We never used to praise Fergie in this way before when we were going head to head with his team. We always thought we had the better manager. Now we're admitting defeat. No shame in Wenger's record when you look at it but if it all ends tomorrow you get a sense that he didn't quite reach the heights we expected. In fact, I'm sure when he's retired and reflects back, he'll have regrets about not winning Europe as his peers have done. It's got to sting his ego a bit.
Exactly right, you can't not question a man's record when he's gone so long without delivering any success (half his Arsenal time), if he was that great he'd have reproduced something. In recent years he's been shown to be tactically inept, unable to adapt, unable to spot and fix problem areas in the team, unable to blend the different attributes in a team required for success.....in now way is any of that great

IMO he has way too many flaws in his management style to be considered great and his record doesn't make for great reading anymore either, he's been regularly out thought by managers of smaller clubs as well.

[Gooner23]

Giroud is easy to mark out a game and that's why he won't get many chances on goal. A fast more mobile and nimble striker will be able to lose Cahill and slip behind the defence.


But conversely he can do things other strikers can't. Back to goal he is very good at holding the ball up and playing in others around him. Ok hes not that pacy, but I think he will get chances with the right service. He always seems to get on the end of crosses, just needs to improve his finishing. But thats different to saying he can get marked out of games.

[Power n Glory]

But conversely he can do things other strikers can't. Back to goal he is very good at holding the ball up and playing in others around him. Ok hes not that pacy, but I think he will get chances with the right service. He always seems to get on the end of crosses, just needs to improve his finishing. But thats different to saying he can get marked out of games.

He's a relic and there are very few top teams that have a bulky slow player that holds up play. It's not needed and we don't need that sort of striker. Name a top team that plays regularly with a target man type striker?

[Fist of Lehmann]

Balotelli is hugely talented but a colossal twat, complete numbnuts. Sort of like a distilled Bendtner.

If someone could sort his head out he's potentially be one of the most dangerous forwards in the league. Sadly for him, his character flaws make him untouchable, 10ft barge pole style.

[GP]

But conversely he can do things other strikers can't. Back to goal he is very good at holding the ball up and playing in others around him. Ok hes not that pacy, but I think he will get chances with the right service. He always seems to get on the end of crosses, just needs to improve his finishing. But thats different to saying he can get marked out of games.

Yep, good post.

[Fist of Lehmann]

He's a relic and there are very few top teams that have a bulky slow player that holds up play. It's not needed and we don't need that sort of striker. Name a top team that plays regularly with a target man type striker?

No-one with CL aspirations. West Ham and Stoke mainly.

[Power n Glory]

No-one with CL aspirations. West Ham and Stoke mainly.

Exactly. The games evolved and hold up play strikers is a step backwards. It's funny because we were once the pioneers and moved away from playing with target men strikers and always went for pace, power and technically gifted players. Even with slow strikers like Kanu, he was technically brilliant and not a battering ram sort of player or a player that heavily relied on others to create chances for him. If Giroud is tightly marked, he's unlikely to create space for himself to shoot or for anyone else for that matter.

[Marc Overmars]

Giroud is not a bad striker by any means but this was always going to be the problem with any RVC replacement, he raised the bar to such a level last season that it was going to be near enough impossible to reach again.

We could have tried to sign a worldie but opted for someone relatively unproven who was riding the wave of his breakthrough season. You reap what you sow.

[Letters]

It's being called into question right now.
By a few internet warriors, no-one else.

I do take the point about failing to retain the title and win the CL though, I think that does take him out of the 'all time great' category. But the way some on here have bent over backwards to deny him credit for the things he did achieve is pretty silly.

[Özim]

Nothing since 2005 speaks for itself I'm afraid.

Name me one other top manager who has gone that long without winning a thing at a big club?

[Power n Glory]

It was always going to be hard to replace RVP but Giroud just doesn't fit into our set up at all. He's a very un-Wenger like signing when you look at the history of strikers we've had in the past. He's very slow, average technically and not even clinical. I can't see him scoring more than 15 goals for us this season. It's going to be twice as hard for him in this set up because the service is piss poor as well.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Well no, it hasn't. Clough had a lot of success with Forest and Derby in the 70s but then won very little after that (OK, a European Cup in 1980 so his success crept into the 80s, but very little after that). And he ended up taking Forest down. No-one doubts he was a great manager in his day though.

For all his failings over the last 7 years Wenger has kept us top 4 every year, we haven't dropped into mid-table, or worse (yet!). You may not value that as an achievement the board clearly do and so to most of football - clubs like Liverpool and Spurs have spent a lot of money trying to get into the top 4 without much success. Given that he has kept us up there he should have won a few trophies but it's no mean feat in an era of billionaires.

Ferguson will go down, rightly so, as an all time great manager. Possibly the all time great manager. Fergie was Wenger's competition when he joined Arsenal and Utd were already established as the dominant side of the 90s. For the first half of Wenger's time with us they stood toe to toe, Wenger arguably got the better of him in the early noughties. He has failed to maintain that, partly because of the billionaires, partly because other clubs have caught up with his training methods and scouting which initially gave us an edge, partly because of his own damn stubbornness. But let's not get all revisionist about it, in his day he was brilliant and transformed the club from a boring mid-table club into the best team in the country playing a fantastic style of football.

And now, ironically, he's taking us back to being a boring, mid-table team again.

[Letters]

Exactly right, you can't not question a man's record when he's gone so long without delivering any success
Yet you fawn over Graham who has achieved virtually nothing since he left Arsenal. :shrug:

He was great back in the day. Football has caught up with his methods and now with silly money being thrown around and a combination of factors (one being his own damn stubbornness) he's no longer able to compete. That doesn't mean we need to bend over backwards to belittle his past achievements.

[Letters]

And now, ironically, he's taking us back to being a boring, mid-table team again.
is that ironic?

[Power n Glory]

By a few internet warriors, no-one else.

I do take the point about failing to retain the title and win the CL though, I think that does take him out of the 'all time great' category. But the way some on here have bent over backwards to deny him credit for the things he did achieve is pretty silly.

Not just internet warriors, you included. When Wenger and Fergie were going head to head, were you so quick to say Fergie was the better manager? The fact that we'll all admit that Fergie is better, casually like it's nothing, is saying a lot. Back after the Invincible win we'd have all said Wenger was destined to stand side by side or even above Fergie as an all-time great.

[Özim]

Yet you fawn over Graham who has achieved virtually nothing since he left Arsenal. :shrug:

He was great back in the day. Football has caught up with his methods and now with silly money being thrown around and a combination of factors (one being his own damn stubbornness) he's no longer able to compete. That doesn't mean we need to bend over backwards to belittle his past achievements.
He's hardly managed since he left, did quite well at Leeds and Spurs though, didn't get long however.

He was great when he had an advantage over others and inherited some real leaders and was able to complement those with good signings.

When it comes to building a team off his own back though, he's shown that he's failed miserably, tactically, in terms of coaching and an ability to put together the right blend of players.

He's too rigid, too stubborn and unable to adapt.

[Letters]

Not just internet warriors, you included. When Wenger and Fergie were going head to head, were you so quick to say Fergie was the better manager? The fact that we'll all admit that Fergie is better, casually like it's nothing, is saying a lot. Back after the Invincible win we'd have all said Wenger was destined to stand side by side or even above Fergie as an all-time great.
I think it's fair enough to lament the fact that Wenger might have been an all time great and probably isn't now.
But some bend over backwards to dismiss his achievements - someone even said something about the Invincibles not being a Wenger team because it had Bergkamp in it :doh:

[Letters]

When it comes to building a team off his own back though, he's shown that he's failed miserably, tactically, in terms of coaching and an ability to put together the right blend of players.
The Invincibles was entirely his team bar Bergkamp. He didn't inherit Vieira who gave us the leadership on the pitch back then.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Exactly. The games evolved and hold up play strikers is a step backwards. It's funny because we were once the pioneers and moved away from playing with target men strikers and always went for pace, power and technically gifted players. Even with slow strikers like Kanu, he was technically brilliant and not a battering ram sort of player or a player that heavily relied on others to create chances for him. If Giroud is tightly marked, he's unlikely to create space for himself to shoot or for anyone else for that matter.

After the 'no Plan B' era we have always opted to have 1 big man in the squad to at least give us the threat at crosses.
At the time we passed on Samaras and Zigic, plumped for Adebayor instead, and since then have had Bendtner, Chamakh and now Giroud.

The problem isn't so much with the style itself (though our crossing is such that plan B was never that effective), it's that with the lack of options now in the squad, the plan A we had with the Dutchman no longer exists.

Plan B1 (bigman holdup), B2 (fastman, ball in behind) and B3 (dribblyman, pulls wide) all have only functioned this season to varying degrees.

The one guy in our squad who potentially could play the false 9 role (Podolski) is never played in this way.

Your style of play is fundamentally informed by the abilities of the players at your disposal, so either we buy a forward to fit the style we want to play, or change or style. Giroud can be made to be an effective forward, but it may not be as an out-and-out goalscorer. It may be as a buffer and a wall for the 3 attacking midfielders behind him to play off and score the goals. A more selfless workhorse type forward who uses his physicality to move defences around.

In short, he could be our Emile Heskey.

[Power n Glory]

I think it's fair enough to lament the fact that Wenger might have been an all time great and probably isn't now.
But some bend over backwards to dismiss his achievements - someone even said something about the Invincibles not being a Wenger team because it had Bergkamp in it :doh:

How can be an all-time great back then but not considered one now? Why do you say that?

[Letters]

How can be an all-time great back then but not considered one now? Why do you say that?
I said he might have been one. It obviously depended on what he went on to do and while keeping us in the top 4 in this era shouldn't be dismissed he hasn't continued the success he started, partly because of things outside his control like the billionaire owners, but he certainly could have done more and has failed to adapt to the current footballing climate.

[Power n Glory]

After the 'no Plan B' era we have always opted to have 1 big man in the squad to at least give us the threat at crosses.
At the time we passed on Samaras and Zigic, plumped for Adebayor instead, and since then have had Bendtner, Chamakh and now Giroud.

The problem isn't so much with the style itself (though our crossing is such that plan B was never that effective), it's that with the lack of options now in the squad, the plan A we had with the Dutchman no longer exists.

Plan B1 (bigman holdup), B2 (fastman, ball in behind) and B3 (dribblyman, pulls wide) all have only functioned this season to varying degrees.

The one guy in our squad who potentially could play the false 9 role (Podolski) is never played in this way.

Your style of play is fundamentally informed by the abilities of the players at your disposal, so either we buy a forward to fit the style we want to play, or change or style. Giroud can be made to be an effective forward, but it may not be as an out-and-out goalscorer. It may be as a buffer and a wall for the 3 attacking midfielders behind him to play off and score the goals. A more selfless workhorse type forward who uses his physicality to move defences around.

In short, he could be our Emile Heskey.

I agree with that. I think Giroud could be decent playing with a strike partner or if we had better quality wingers that caused havoc. In this current set up, I doubt he'll flourish.

Speaking of Ade, the one thing he had other the other big men we've bought is pace and work rate. He used to drift all over the field and the more mobile he was, the harder he was to mark and keep a hold of. I remember Rio saying he hated playing against him because he was so busy. The rest lack that movement and that's why they get pinned down so easily. Bendy was slightly different because he'd have lazy games but could also have games where he'd drop deep and try to run at defenders as well. He wasn't super slow and static, which is why he probably ranks above Chamakh and Giroud in terms of usefulness. Some people will disagree with that but whatever.

[KSE Comedy Club]

is that ironic?

Well yes.

He had the vision to change the way that football was played in this country into fast, counter attacking footbll. Now plenty of other teams have adopted some of these characteristics which is paying off.

Our play has become slow, laboured and at times, downright boring, and if we carry on at this rate, we'll back in mid table again.

I would say thats pretty ironic.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

By a few internet warriors, no-one else.

I do take the point about failing to retain the title and win the CL though, I think that does take him out of the 'all time great' category. But the way some on here have bent over backwards to deny him credit for the things he did achieve is pretty silly.

:lol: A tad bit disingenuous there, I'd say. Bordering on wumming, tbh.

[Power n Glory]

I said he might have been one. It obviously depended on what he went on to do and while keeping us in the top 4 in this era shouldn't be dismissed he hasn't continued the success he started, partly because of things outside his control like the billionaire owners, but he certainly could have done more and has failed to adapt to the current footballing climate.

There wasn't that sort of doubt 7 years ago. He's was considered the best in the business by most of us back then and now the tune has changed. Clough is still considered an all-time great even though the end of his career ended badly and in other sports, most boxers like Ali and Tyson are considered all-time greats even though their records usually nose dive as they get on.

It maybe revisionist (you're guilty of it too) but we're now looking back at Wenger's achievements because he hasn't hit the heights like others have. If he'd have won the Champs League at least and had a better record in Europe and maybe won a few domestic cups during the barren years, the money and change of football would be a valid excuse for his lack of success.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I said he might have been one. It obviously depended on what he went on to do and while keeping us in the top 4 in this era shouldn't be dismissed he hasn't continued the success he started, partly because of things outside his control like the billionaire owners, but he certainly could have done more and has failed to adapt to the current footballing climate.

Billionaire owners dont organise the team, drill them at defense, choose the tactics on the pitch and make the substitutions.

You cant help but mention them everytime there is a debate about Wenger on here. Its not an excuse anyone can use as to why he hasnt kept up with the pack. We dont have to spend the silly money that other teams have to keep us challenging, we couldve signed plenty of good players that would hve helped us out, but wenger has opted for buying shit that he delludes himself into thinking doesnt stink.

Im sure our own billionaire owner wouldve put his hand in his pockets if wenger threatened to walk if he didnt get money for signings, etc, but he believes his kids/projects/experiments will be enough.

[Letters]

Billionaire owners dont organise the team, drill them at defense, choose the tactics on the pitch and make the substitutions.No, but they can assemble a squad so good and distort the transfer and wage market to a point that it's hard for anyone else to compete.
God alone knows how Fergie got Utd so close to the title last year, they were nowhere near as good as City on paper.

But yes, there's no excuse or reason why we're battling to stay in touch with the top 4.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Mancs got close last season because they didn't throw away lots of cheap points. They did a good job of dispatching teams of 'lesser resources' - something which we've been failing miserably at.

Imagine where we could have been if we had a manager who applied tactics to see off the Norwichs, Swanseas, etc, thereby picking up some vital 3 points needed to keep us competitive.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Mancs got close last season because they didn't throw away lots of cheap points. They did a good job of dispatching teams of 'lesser resources' - something which we've been failing miserably at.


True, they kicked the shit out of us.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

True, they kicked the shit out of us.

You mods do set a high bar.... GoonersWum indeed :lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

You mods do set a high bar.... GoonersWum indeed :lol:

I'm not disagreeing with you. Try not to overuse the wum tag. You've done it twice today in this thread alone.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Modding at its best

[Xhaka Can’t]

Incidentally, of everyone last season beat the teams with less resources than them, we would have finished 4th. You could depending on how you rate Liverpool's resources argue, 5th.

But yeah, we lost and increasingly lose some shockers, to the point that they are no longer shocking.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Modding at its best

It ain't modding when we post.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Try not to overuse the wum tag. You've done it twice today in this thread alone.

Not disagreeing with me but I think we both know what you did there.

Oh, and I'll bear in mind that the aforementioned tag is mainly reserved for folks who carry a certain line of argument.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not disagreeing with me but I think we both know what you did there.

Oh, and I'll bear in mind that the aforementioned tag is mainly reserved for folks who carry a certain line of argument.

I made a light hearted quip about them slaughtering us, ie dispatching of a team with less resources.

It in no way undermined or argued against your post. In fact I've completely supported your post because it is accurate.

Wumming is when someone is on the wind up regardless of position held.

[Power n Glory]

Wasn't there a thread about wumming and point scoring? Culprits were threatened with a ban. :lol:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

It ain't modding when we post.

fair point however......ahh forget it

[Özil's Panoramic View]

OK boss... no harm done to really, slight misunderstanding at best... or is it?

Anyway, no further derailment on my part, on with thread....

Fact is, we only got where we were end of last season because of RvP hitting his peak (a place he's still pretty much at this season, but not in our kit). Our squad was always weak, so what was Wenger really hoping to achieve by selling and replacing him with someone way less talented in same weak team? We still lack any form of grit in midfield coupled with minimal creativity, and we still can't defend for shitte.

Did scraping 3rd place last season delude him into thinking that with such a massive downgrade, our worst case scenario would be scraping 4th this season? I honestly think he misjudged the Spuds, as it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to wrestle 4th place from them.

[Letters]

Wasn't there a thread about wumming and point scoring? Culprits were threatened with a ban. :lol:
I don't think any threats were made, but yes there was a thread about it.
And no-one's been WUMming in this thread.

[Power n Glory]

I disagree. It's subtle.

But back on topic....

[Kano]

But back on topic....
i think that was lost a while ago

[Xhaka Can’t]

OK boss... no harm done to really, slight misunderstanding at best.

Anyway, no further derailment on my part, on with thread....

Fact is, we only got where we were end of last season because of RvP hitting his peak (a place he's still pretty much at this season, but not in our kit). Our squad was always weak, so what was Wenger really hoping to achieve by selling and replacing him with someone way less talented in same weak team? We still lack any form of grit in midfield coupled with minimal creativity, and we still can't defend for shitte.

Did scraping 3rd place last season delude him into thinking that with such a massive downgrade, our worst case scenario would be scraping 4th this season? I honestly think he misjudged the Spuds, as it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to wrestle 4th place from them.

I can't even begin to understand what goes on in his head. I'd like to think that he would have wanted to keep rvp knowing he would never spend or be allowed to part with the resources needed for adequate replacement.

[Power n Glory]

i think that was lost a while ago

This was never supposed to be a serious thread anyway. :lol:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I can't even begin to understand what goes on in his head. I'd like to think that he would have wanted to keep rvp knowing he would never spend or be allowed to part with the resources needed for adequate replacement.

Tbh, I do get caught into two minds when our manager is the subject. There can be no denying that we have a Board intent on putting in fuck all whilst pillaging profits, and Wenger, like any other employee, does whatever is required to keep his bosses happy. But then, he does have a talented pool of players, maybe to a lesser extent these days, and should have been able to extract more from what has been at his disposal.

His present day *apologetic and defeatist attitude is baffling for a man who was once on the path to managerial greatness.


*maybe not so present day, but more pronounced and noticeable now that we are so dire.

[Kano]

This was never supposed to be a serious thread anyway. :lol:
that's not what you said on private message when we set it up.

[Özim]

The Invincibles was entirely his team bar Bergkamp. He didn't inherit Vieira who gave us the leadership on the pitch back then.
The thing is though many of them learnt a lot from Adams and co and it seems that this made a huge difference, you can see the result of having none of those types of players around now, abject failure.

Those players undoubtedly had a hand in Wenger's later successes, in terms of passing on their experience and winning attitude.

[Kano]

adams is a far better manager than wenger tbf.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

adams is a far better manager than wenger tbf.

'Pub' manager that is.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Adams :lol:

More depressing than a cold January on GW.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The thing is though many of them learnt a lot from Adams and co and it seems that this made a huge difference, you can see the result of having none of those types of players around now, abject failure.

Those players undoubtedly had a hand in Wenger's later successes, in terms of passing on their experience and winning attitude.

Bould was a big part of 'and co.' He certainly had me expecting, or is it 'hoping' for more than this.

[Marc Overmars]

Bould. :lol:

I'm sure his job is just pretty much laying out and picking up the cones.

[Kano]

as we can all see, pat rice was always the big problem at the club.

[Gooner23]

Come back Pat, all is forgiven

[Xhaka Can’t]

as we can all see, pat rice was always the big problem at the club.

Looks like it may have been Vic Akers all along.

Man, have we got egg all over our faces.

[Boss]

Aguero, Tevez, Dzeko, RVP, Rooney, Hernandes, Ba, Michu, Benteke, Balotelli, Suarez.

That's without even thinking about it.

Balotelli :haha: :haha:

Quite obvious that you haven't thought about it tbh.

[Power n Glory]

Balotelli would be an ideal signing if he didn't have the attitude problem.

[Boss]

And Heskey would be an ideal signing if he could score goals.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah...:doh:

[Özim]

adams is a far better manager than wenger tbf.
Yeah cos that's what I was saying wasn't it?

[Özim]

Balotelli :haha: :haha:

Quite obvious that you haven't thought about it tbh.
Balotelly has more talent in his little toe than Giroud, his temperament is questionnable of course, but in terms of ability there's no comparison.

[Özim]

Bould was a big part of 'and co.' He certainly had me expecting, or is it 'hoping' for more than this.
Bould played his part for sure, but the like of Adams, Keown, Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn played more regularly and knew what it took to win.

Wenger is a control freak, I don't think anyone can come in and change things because he'll always have his say, we've seen the kind of things he comes out with after all.

[Boss]

Balotelly has more talent in his little toe than Giroud, his temperament is questionnable of course, but in terms of ability there's no comparison.

Ability means nothing when it's not matched with an attitude that shows it on the pitch.

Let's not forget Balotelli cost almost as much as Van Persie. I can only imagine the level of bedwetting on here had we signed him for the amount he cost and had he put in similar levels of performances, at best he's nothing more than yet another youth project, and while he may come good he's not at Giroud's level right now and would not help us much on the pitch.

[Kano]

Yeah cos that's what I was saying wasn't it?
as good as yes. taking away as much credit as possible from wenger for the clubs achievements in those years, without actually having the nuts to say wenger done nothing in your eyes except diets - because you know you'd be laughed out of town for it.

[Özim]

as good as yes. taking away as much credit as possible from wenger for the clubs achievements in those years, without actually having the nuts to say wenger done nothing in your eyes except diets - because you know you'd be laughed out of town for it.
He was a winner and a leader on the pitch, today we have none of that and the results are evident.

I'd suggest Adams' forte was on the pitch and that Wenger let the players deal with the match side, in terms of motivation and in terms of being able to react to events due to their experience and determination...we've already seen that Wenger hasn't a clue when it comes to tactics, motivation and substitutions.

I'm sorry but I know longer rate the guy that highly, he's gone too long without delivering anything. IMO any big club would be foolish to employ him if they want success on the pitch.

[Power n Glory]

Ability means nothing when it's not matched with an attitude that shows it on the pitch.

Let's not forget Balotelli cost almost as much as Van Persie. I can only imagine the level of bedwetting on here had we signed him for the amount he cost and had he put in similar levels of performances, at best he's nothing more than yet another youth project, and while he may come good he's not at Giroud's level right now and would not help us much on the pitch.

I think you're off with that one. Arshavin is an example of someone with talent but poor application but there is no way I could say a player like Gervinho is a level above him just because he works harder when playing.

[Özim]

Ability means nothing when it's not matched with an attitude that shows it on the pitch.

Let's not forget Balotelli cost almost as much as Van Persie. I can only imagine the level of bedwetting on here had we signed him for the amount he cost and had he put in similar levels of performances, at best he's nothing more than yet another youth project, and while he may come good he's not at Giroud's level right now and would not help us much on the pitch.
He's shown his ability on the pitch before, he's pretty young though and will mature in time.

As for the price, well yes but that's because we sold RVP dirt cheap, if we'd been a bit clevered we'd have kept him under contract and got 35-40 million for him.

He's way better than Giroud, he's scored plenty of goals for City, Giroud has scored a few but missed a shedload and is a pretty ordinary players.

I'd take Balotelli over him anyday in the hope in time he can be tamed and let his football do the talking.

[Ollie the Optimist]

He's shown his ability on the pitch before, he's pretty young though and will mature in time.

As for the price, well yes but that's because we sold RVP dirt cheap, if we'd been a bit clevered we'd have kept him under contract and got 35-40 million for him.

He's way better than Giroud, he's scored plenty of goals for City, Giroud has scored a few but missed a shedload and is a pretty ordinary players.

I'd take Balotelli over him anyday in the hope in time he can be tamed and let his football do the talking.

balotelli has scored about 2 goals this season, giroud has about 9.

[GP]

No one here really wants Balotelli at this club, surely?

[Ollie the Optimist]

as good as yes. taking away as much credit as possible from wenger for the clubs achievements in those years, without actually having the nuts to say wenger done nothing in your eyes except diets - because you know you'd be laughed out of town for it.


out of the unbeatables squad. there are about three players (off the top of my head) that we can say werent wengers. bergkamp, keown, parlour. (and cole at a push but wenger gave him his debut)

to give fuck all credit to wenger for building that squad, doing something that not even the great barcelona side of today have done, is pathetic, immature and bitter

[Özim]

balotelli has scored about 2 goals this season, giroud has about 9.
He's not had a good season and hasn't played much, but he got 20 odd last season.

If you get him playing he's streets ahead of Giroud though, talent wise he's right up there.

[Marc Overmars]

I want Wenget gone but its important we don't let recent years cloud the great memories we're all lucky to have.

[Ollie the Optimist]

He's not had a good season and hasn't played much, but he got 20 odd last season.

If you get him playing he's streets ahead of Giroud though, talent wise he's right up there.

talent wise diaby is right up there. the point is nonsense. he causes more probelms then he is worth. he might have scored 20 goals last year, however, he hasnt this year. you never know with him. and the reason he hasnt played much is his own fault. the poor attiude, the off field dramas etc.

[Özim]

out of the unbeatables squad. there are about three players (off the top of my head) that we can say werent wengers. bergkamp, keown, parlour. (and cole at a push but wenger gave him his debut)

to give fuck all credit to wenger for building that squad, doing something that not even the great barcelona side of today have done, is pathetic, immature and bitter
Many of them came through playing with the likes of Adams, Keown etc so learnt a lot from them...that makes a big difference, Bergkamp was a massive player as well.

Sorry but Wenger as good as people thought after all, I reckon people got it wrong. If he was that good he'd have done something of note since 2005, the fact he hasn't says plenty about him.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Many of them came through playing with the likes of Adams, Keown etc so learnt a lot from them...that makes a big difference, Bergkamp was a massive player as well.

Sorry but Wenger as good as people thought after all, I reckon people got it wrong. If he was that good he'd have done something of note since 2005, the fact he hasn't says plenty about him.


ok, you go and believe that wenger is a shit manager. and its only because of playing with adams and keown that we went unbeaten.

[Özim]

talent wise diaby is right up there. the point is nonsense. he causes more probelms then he is worth. he might have scored 20 goals last year, however, he hasnt this year. you never know with him. and the reason he hasnt played much is his own fault. the poor attiude, the off field dramas etc.
Yeah but he's always injured so pointless.

He's unpredictable, but there's a reason Mancini still keeps him, he knows how good he is.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yeah but he's always injured so pointless.

He's unpredictable, but there's a reason Mancini still keeps him, he knows how good he is.

wenger knows how good diaby is so thats why he keeps him..

balotelli is a good player on his day, but no one knows when that day will be. thats why he isnt worth the risk. giroud for instance might average 10 goals a season, balotelli might get 20 in one, then 2 in the other. he isnt worht it.

mancini might be keeping him, but htere is a differnce between keeping him and not playing him

[Power n Glory]

out of the unbeatables squad. there are about three players (off the top of my head) that we can say werent wengers. bergkamp, keown, parlour. (and cole at a push but wenger gave him his debut)

to give fuck all credit to wenger for building that squad, doing something that not even the great barcelona side of today have done, is pathetic, immature and bitter

But you have to wonder what's happened over the years. Adams, Dixon and co often said they taught the new foreign players the Arsenal way and how to toughen up. As the years have passed it's like we've lost our sense of tradition and battling mentality. Forget what other teams are doing for moment, we look lazy, uninterested and unorganized most of the time. How comes Wenger has been unable to restore some sort of pride in the players?

[Boss]

I think you're off with that one. Arshavin is an example of someone with talent but poor application but there is no way I could say a player like Gervinho is a level above him just because he works harder when playing.

I don't think you can really call Arshavin lazy, he still tries in whatever little appearances he has for us but seems to have lost his spark, like Torres. To be honest Gervinho is the only person I won't get irritated at people on here abusing because he is absolutely terrible.

I'd say they're flip sides of the same coin, but both not really good enough for where we want to be. But my main point of how someone that works hard but isn't that good (think half of ManU's players over the years) should be preferred to someone that has talent but isn't willing to graft for it is a valid one, I think.

[Ollie the Optimist]

But you have to wonder what's happened over the years. Adams, Dixon and co often said they taught the new foreign players the Arsenal way and how to toughen up. As the years have passed it's like we've lost our sense of tradition and battling mentality. Forget what other teams are doing for moment, we look lazy, uninterested and unorganized most of the time. How comes Wenger has been unable to restore some sort of pride in the players?

ok now, there are problems and questions have to be asked. however questioning his previous acheviements are stupid.

did adams and dixon convert henry from a left wing who failed in italy into the greatest striker the premiership has ever seen? no, wenger did. taking any credit away from wenger for unebatables, the doubles, the cups is just sad, pathetic and bitter

[KSE Comedy Club]

No one here really wants Balotelli at this club, surely?

Fuck no.

[Boss]

He's shown his ability on the pitch before, he's pretty young though and will mature in time.

As for the price, well yes but that's because we sold RVP dirt cheap, if we'd been a bit clevered we'd have kept him under contract and got 35-40 million for him.

He's way better than Giroud, he's scored plenty of goals for City, Giroud has scored a few but missed a shedload and is a pretty ordinary players.

I'd take Balotelli over him anyday in the hope in time he can be tamed and let his football do the talking.

He is still a project player, which if the club is to reach the heights all of us do we don't really have time for. He's also expensive, given that clubs which have to live under normal circumstances are generally only able to afford one of which each year means he's a terrible example even when placed against Giroud (who is nowhere near the world's top strikers and never will be, to be fair - that said neither are Dzeko, Welbeck, Hernandez, and so on).

Easiest way is to ask whether you would have taken Balotelli this summer instead of Podolski and Giroud - a question I think most would have the same answer to, and it doesn't favour the Italian.

[Power n Glory]

ok now, there are problems and questions have to be asked. however questioning his previous acheviements are stupid.

did adams and dixon convert henry from a left wing who failed in italy into the greatest striker the premiership has ever seen? no, wenger did. taking any credit away from wenger for unebatables, the doubles, the cups is just sad, pathetic and bitter

I think you have to take some of the emotion out of the debate and think about why we're not getting the same level of performances out of our player now. Parlour, Winterburn, Dixon...they weren't as technically gifted as some of the players we have now or seen in the past but they'd behave in the same way we've seen some of our most recent players have behaved on the pitch. It's unacceptable but we see it week in week out. Why hasn't Wenger put a stop to it he instilled the winning menality in the old squad? Unless that attitude is something they always had and he never had to drill it into them. That's probably the difference and what I'm driving at.

[Power n Glory]

Fuck no.

He'd be a nightmare and if Mancini can't control him, Wenger has no chance. But he's still a talented player. Just needs to sort his head out or he'll ruin his career.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger should only currently be judged on his last 7 years as an average manager who has ridden his luck.

Before that he was pretty great tbf, he won stuff and set the precedent for the football that we see most of the time in the PL today.

No-one should be questioning his previous achievements.

[Özim]

He is still a project player, which if the club is to reach the heights all of us do we don't really have time for. He's also expensive, given that clubs which have to live under normal circumstances are generally only able to afford one of which each year means he's a terrible example even when placed against Giroud (who is nowhere near the world's top strikers and never will be, to be fair - that said neither are Dzeko, Welbeck, Hernandez, and so on).

Easiest way is to ask whether you would have taken Balotelli this summer instead of Podolski and Giroud - a question I think most would have the same answer to, and it doesn't favour the Italian.
He's a project yes, but potentially you have a world beater on your hands...so it's a risk vs reward thing.

As for the question, a better one would be if people were asked if they wanted Giroud signed, would they have said yes, I reckon most would have said no thanks let's find something top quality and proven.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I wanted us to sign Giroud, he's one sexy muthafucka!

[Boss]

He's a project yes, but potentially you have a world beater on your hands...so it's a risk vs reward thing.

As for the question, a better one would be if people were asked if they wanted Giroud signed, would they have said yes, I reckon most would have said no thanks let's find something top quality and proven.

The mistake was selling Van Persie, not replacing him with Giroud. Once you sell a player of Van Persie's calibre, of which there are maybe only 3 players in the world on the same / better level (Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao) he becomes impossible to replace. As we're learning, of course.

Giroud was a good signing as his performances so far have shown and will only continue to get better. The fact that we have a thread slating him after less than 20 starts for us is proof that most football fans today are glory hunting filth.

[Kano]

He was a winner and a leader on the pitch, today we have none of that and the results are evident.

I'd suggest Adams' forte was on the pitch and that Wenger let the players deal with the match side, in terms of motivation and in terms of being able to react to events due to their experience and determination...we've already seen that Wenger hasn't a clue when it comes to tactics, motivation and substitutions.

I'm sorry but I know longer rate the guy that highly, he's gone too long without delivering anything. IMO any big club would be foolish to employ him if they want success on the pitch.
so apart from introducing the players to broccoli - what do credit him with?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I want Wenget gone but its important we don't let recent years cloud the great memories we're all lucky to have.

This.

[Xhaka Can’t]

so apart from introducing the players to broccoli - what do credit him with?

Lasagne probably.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The mistake was selling Van Persie, not replacing him with Giroud. Once you sell a player of Van Persie's calibre, of which there are maybe only 3 players in the world on the same / better level (Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao) he becomes impossible to replace. As we're learning, of course.

Giroud was a good signing as his performances so far have shown and will only continue to get better. The fact that we have a thread slating him after less than 20 starts for us is proof that most football fans today are glory hunting filth.

:gp:

[Özim]

so apart from introducing the players to broccoli - what do credit him with?
Football's biggest delusional bullsh*tter?

[Kano]

and there you have it. you just ruined your whole argument. well done.

[Özim]

The mistake was selling Van Persie, not replacing him with Giroud. Once you sell a player of Van Persie's calibre, of which there are maybe only 3 players in the world on the same / better level (Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao) he becomes impossible to replace. As we're learning, of course.

Giroud was a good signing as his performances so far have shown and will only continue to get better. The fact that we have a thread slating him after less than 20 starts for us is proof that most football fans today are glory hunting filth.
Selling RVP was a mistake but I'd argue signing Giroud rather than someone proven also was.

There are players out there who'll score you goals and that's what we really needed, Giroud will miss many more than he scores, he's a sub at best IMO.

[Özim]

and there you have it. you just ruined your whole argument. well done.
You're the one that came out with a nonsense comment.

If you're going to get sarcy don't expect a serious reply.

[Kano]

you have only given him the diet thing, nothing else. so don't be scared of putting it out there. what else?

[Özim]

He's ruined it for me, too much BS, too much nonsense, too many big words whilst delivering nothing.

I'll credit him for some great football many years ago and signing some top players for sure and for some great times, but that was a long time ago now.

In pure terms he's not a great manager, IMO he's a man who's delivered some great times and football though, his skills with the right players brought success, but without those strong characters he's unable to deliver.

He's a very good manager in the right circumstances IMO.

[Kano]

so diet, great football and signing top players?

yet he deserves as little credit as possible for the success we enjoyed?

i'll leave it here, you've battered your own argument enough.

[Boss]

Selling RVP was a mistake but I'd argue signing Giroud rather than someone proven also was.

There are players out there who'll score you goals and that's what we really needed, Giroud will miss many more than he scores, he's a sub at best IMO.

In another universe Giroud would qualify as proven, spearheaded his unfancied team to the league title last season and has a mostly decent scoring record in his last few seasons (unlike a flop like Chamakh, who wasn't even a 1 in 2 striker before he came to us). I'm really not sure who's 'proven' that you expected us to be capable of getting when we sold RVP.

[Özim]

In another universe Giroud would qualify as proven, spearheaded his unfancied team to the league title last season and has a mostly decent scoring record in his last few seasons (unlike a flop like Chamakh, who wasn't even a 1 in 2 striker before he came to us). I'm really not sure who's 'proven' that you expected us to be capable of getting when we sold RVP.
I'd have taken Huntelaar, Higuain or someone like them who will deliver goals, not some unknown unproven French guy with very little experience of playing at the top level in any country.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Giroud will be fine next season and he will become a regular scorer.

Inshallah it will happen.

[Power n Glory]

so diet, great football and signing top players?

yet he deserves as little credit as possible for the success we enjoyed?

i'll leave it here, you've battered your own argument enough.

Not really because I've seen people use the same sort of arguments against Pep and sometimes with Mourinho.

If Pep fails miserably with Bayern, wouldn't it be fair to say he was blessed with a very taleneted squad and that's partly the reason why he was so successful?

We shouldn't dance around the issue of why Wenger has done so badly in the past 7 years. The mentality of the squad when he first arrived is worlds apart from what we're seeing now. Why is that?

[Özim]

so diet, great football and signing top players?

yet he deserves as little credit as possible for the success we enjoyed?

i'll leave it here, you've battered your own argument enough.
Not really because like I said "in the right circumstances".

He can't adapt, can't change and doesn't have the answers when the environment isn't right. That's not a great manager, great managers, evolve and adapt to changing conditions.

He's not done any of the above in the last x years, in fact it's been pretty dire.

[Boss]

I'd have taken Huntelaar, Higuain or someone like them who will deliver goals, not some unknown unproven French guy with very little experience of playing at the top level in any country.

Huntelaar flopped at the only two big clubs he's been at. He offers nothing apart from the goals, which while nice doesn't really work in a league where you need genuine class to continually unlock defenses. While Higuain is better he's also quite clearly out of our price range and we'd be overpaying for someone that's nowhere near world class.

[Özim]

Not really because I've seen people use the same sort of arguments against Pep and sometimes with Mourinho.

If Pep fails miserably with Bayern, wouldn't it be fair to say he was blessed with a very taleneted squad and that's partly the reason why he was so successful?

We shouldn't dance around the issue of why Wenger has done so badly in the past 7 years. The mentality of the squad when he first arrived is worlds apart from what we're seeing now. Why is that?
I agree with this, if Guardiola does well at Bayern he'll have more credibility...repeating success somewhere else shows you can deliver in different circumstances. At Barca he had it all, money, quality players etc he also inherited Messi.

Top managers don't go years without winning if at a top club.

[Kano]

Not really because I've seen people use the same sort of arguments against Pep and sometimes with Mourinho.

If Pep fails miserably with Bayern, wouldn't it be fair to say he was blessed with a very taleneted squad and that's partly the reason why he was so successful?

We shouldn't dance around the issue of why Wenger has done so badly in the past 7 years. The mentality of the squad when he first arrived is worlds apart from what we're seeing now. Why is that?
How many of those people are fans of the clubs where that success was delivered? That's the sad thing here.

I'm sure when the time comes in x amount of years that Goonersweb will be used as a bastion of knowledge as to why Wenger will not be our viewed as our most successful manager, a legend in the game and why the players who became legends themselves under his guidance will turn their back on him completely.

I'll keep dancing as long as you keep looning.

[Özim]

Huntelaar flopped at the only two big clubs he's been at. He offers nothing apart from the goals, which while nice doesn't really work in a league where you need genuine class to continually unlock defenses. While Higuain is better he's also quite clearly out of our price range and we'd be overpaying for someone that's nowhere near world class.
He didn't flop at Real he was actually quite good, he just didn't get much of a chance and it's tough at Real.

Goals is fine for me, I'm sick of seeing players doing everything but score goals, we had Wright before and he was all about goals and he was fantastic..if a striker delivers goals I'm happy, Van Nistlerooy delivered goals and that made him quite a player. I don't want to see players dancing around outside the penalty area or laying of the ball, I want to see goalscorers up front.

We got 25 million we could have got quality for that (we had extra money we could have added if need be)

[Kano]

Not really because like I said "in the right circumstances".

He can't adapt, can't change and doesn't have the answers when the environment isn't right. That's not a great manager, great managers, evolve and adapt to changing conditions.

He's not done any of the above in the last x years, in fact it's been pretty dire.
Ah, i see you changed that after my response.

So you do think he done a great job in those years then, we agree on that?

I'm not interested in the past 7 years because only if you choose to ignore them, you'll see my posts on the forum berating our manager. which is why i don't see why you keep repeating your feelings about that either - i know that very well. i've read it enough.

it's your ridiculous statements about the leagues/cups that i'm addressing.

[Power n Glory]

How many of those people are fans of the clubs where that success was delivered? That's the sad thing here.

I'm sure when the time comes in x amount of years that Goonersweb will be used as a bastion of knowledge as to why Wenger will not be our viewed as our most successful manager, a legend in the game and why the players who became legends themselves under his guidance will turn their back on him completely.

I'll keep dancing as long as you keep looning.

That's not what i asked and I didn't ask for a sarcy comment either. It's a genuine question that's hard to answer.

[Kano]

you didn't ask but you got.

please see above.

[Özim]

Ah, i see you changed that after my response.

So you do think he done a great job in those years then, we agree on that?

I'm not interested in the past 7 years because only if you choose to ignore them, you'll see my posts on the forum berating our manager. which is why i don't see why you keep repeating your feelings about that either - i know that very well. i've read it enough.

it's your ridiculous statements about the leagues/cups that i'm addressing.
I'm really questioning his ability as manager, not his achievements.

[Kano]

Say whut?

[Power n Glory]

you didn't ask but you got.

please see above.

Try and keep your emotions in check. If you can't answer then just bow out without getting petty.

[Kano]

I think you need to check into yours occasionally - i'm beginning to think your some sort of bot or something.

[Power n Glory]

I think you need to check into yours occasionally - i'm begging to think your some sort of bot or something.

:lol: Whatever, dude.

We had a good discussion going but this is going south. Night!

[Alpha]

I would have liked no one of those bashing Giroud not to post when he will become good . Giroud is a proper striker . He got everything right only his finishing let him down . You can tell he is still adapting the the premier league and he still needs to rise his confidence . That will come with time and habit . I don't think Van Persie was as good as he is now the first season he arrived at Arsenal . We need to be patient and understand our players .
Pires was a really flop in his first season . But when his time came he never stopped scoring . Giroud will be a very good striker for us .

[gunnerrrrr]

I would have liked no one of those bashing Giroud not to post when he will become good . Giroud is a proper striker . He got everything right only his finishing let him down . You can tell he is still adapting the the premier league and he still needs to rise his confidence . That will come with time and habit . I don't think Van Persie was as good as he is now the first season he arrived at Arsenal . We need to be patient and understand our players .
Pires was a really flop in his first season . But when his time came he never stopped scoring . Giroud will be a very good striker for us .

that really is an excellent post...fair play.

i think the problem is Wenger has asked too much of Giroud due to the sale of RVP...it takes around 6 months for players to settle in, but these new guys have to go from the start and it is the fault of the board and manager that they buy to replace and not complement.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I think we should keep Giroud. Not a bad player and does appear a team player. Would be a very useful and effective sub to Falcao who's still a must get, imo.

Come home please Falcao :pray:

[Özim]

Keep him as a sub, he's not a bad option, but not as a regular first teamer and our main man to get goals.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's gay.

Happy I mean, always smiling except when he misses the goal. Which is always.

[Cripps_orig]

If we played to his strengths, he'd be decent. We won't so he's a little bit useless. Lack of movement, doesn't get involved in the game means our attack dies ASAP. Decent plan B but Theo is our best striker and Ugly fuck isn't in his league

[Niall_Quinn]

Theo is our best striker

He tends to miss once less than Giroud so probably true. But there's no need to rub it in.

[Cripps_orig]

He tends to miss once less than Giroud so probably true. But there's no need to rub it in.

Tbf Theo is our shining light in this dark time. And now he's signed the contract, hopefully he breaks the goal record during the next few years.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

If we played to his strengths, he'd be decent. We won't so he's a little bit useless. Lack of movement, doesn't get involved in the game means our attack dies ASAP. Decent plan B but Theo is our best striker and Ugly fuck isn't in his league

Shows how dire things are.

[Cripps_orig]

Shows how dire things are.

Things are dire indeed but Theo can't be blamed at all. He's shown up this season whereas others have disappeared and finally shut all his critics up with his goals and assists over the last couple of seasons. Get some quality around him instead of Diaby, Giroud, Arteta etc and we are seeing a legend in the making

[Cripps_orig]

Shows how dire things are.

Things are dire indeed but Theo can't be blamed at all. He's shown up this season whereas others have disappeared and finally shut all his critics up with his goals and assists over the last couple of seasons. Get some quality around him instead of Diaby, Giroud, Arteta etc and we are seeing a legend in the making

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Things are dire indeed but Theo can't be blamed at all. He's shown up this season whereas others have disappeared and finally shut all his critics up with his goals and assists over the last couple of seasons. Get some quality around him instead of Diaby, Giroud, Arteta etc and we are seeing a legend in the making

No, not blaming him one bit. He has really done well for someone punching above his weight. For that he should definitely be commended.

[Cripps_orig]

It's what we have come to expect from him tbh. He's improved every season and now he's stepping up. His only real problem was injuries and now he's keeping fit, he is producing

[Niall_Quinn]

Tbf Theo is our shining light in this dark time. And now he's signed the contract, hopefully he breaks the goal record during the next few years.

Did he sign a 250 year contract?

[Letters]

Goals is fine for me, I'm sick of seeing players doing everything but score goals, we had Wright before and he was all about goals and he was fantastic..if a striker delivers goals I'm happy
Yes, I remember how happy you were when Adebayor delivered goals


##

[Letters]

so diet, great football and signing top players?
What has Wenger ever done for us? :lifeofbrian:

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Tbf Theo is our shining light in this dark time. And now he's signed the contract, hopefully he breaks the goal record during the next few years.
He'll be gone in the next few years sadly. Just at the peak of 26/27, he'll be gone. He'll be a legend in the making ready-made for someone else. Signing for only 3.5 years and not 5 or 6, signalled his intent. Basically if we don't win anything or at least compete for the premiership in the next 2 seasons he'll be off...we'll be back to having 1yr or 18months left to run on his contract and it will be the same thing over again. He's covered his back basically, which I am only just now understanding - but loathe just the same. Don't get me wrong, I like Theo a lot and he's got us goals, if he would work as hard as Jack for the next 2 seasons then it would be great for us.

[Özim]

What has Wenger ever done for us? :lifeofbrian:
Yeah don't get upset or anything but he didn't do it for you. Don't think he gives a toss about the fans, he'd sell them off one by one as part of his successful youth project given half a chance.

[Letters]

He probably doesn't give a toss about internet warriors who wouldn't know the first thing about the ins and outs of managing a football club.
Nor should he.

[Özim]

He probably doesn't give a toss about internet warriors who wouldn't know the first thing about the ins and outs of managing a football club.
Nor should he.
No he loves those, they keep him in a job.

It's the fans who go to the stadium he likes to take the p*ss out of, by telling them the problems are basically their fault.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Both of you need to move on.

[PGFC]

Both of you need to move on.

:good: GoonersWorld preferably.

[Özim]

No, they're too nice over there!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Trina's a bitch.

[Letters]

No, they're too nice over there!
Your face is nice <_<




:unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

He probably doesn't give a toss about internet warriors who wouldn't know the first thing about the ins and outs of managing a football club.
Nor should he.

He should at least thank us for our interest in his affairs.

[Özim]

Trina's a bitch.
Only when she has her whip!

[Özim]

He should at least thank us for our interest in his affairs.
It was only one wasn't it?

[Alpha]

that really is an excellent post...fair play.

i think the problem is Wenger has asked too much of Giroud due to the sale of RVP...it takes around 6 months for players to settle in, but these new guys have to go from the start and it is the fault of the board and manager that they buy to replace and not complement.

You are absolutely right . Wenger should have had a David Villa deal done , for example , before releasing Van Persie . Villa could have been a good mentor for Giroud .

[GP]

:lol:

[Boss]

I'm quite confident that over the course of the season Giroud will prove himself to be a much better player than Ba.

Now if only we had someone that could cross him the ball.

[Kano]

what sort of an idiot would start a thread like this. incredible.

[Marc Overmars]

Bif Sexy's strength is certainly attacking the areas in and around the 6 yard box, for that he needs width and good service which he got tonight.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I am still cautiously optimistic about him... a decent player right now, but will need to put in shifts and score goals against bigger and better opposition to be truly taken seriously by us moaners.

[Master Splinter]

Bif Sexy's flicked balls over the top :bow:.

Not sure The Doom Coat suited him at the end though.

[Power n Glory]

Meh...still shit!:lol:

[Letters]

Meh...still shit!:lol:
Well no, he's not shit. He's not RvP either but there's a whole range of abilities in the middle of those two extremes.

Good goals tonight, particularly the first one. He's a good header of the ball, wins a lot of long balls for someone like Theo to latch on to, overall I like him.

[GP]

Well no, he's not shit. He's not RvP either but there's a whole range of abilities in the middle of those two extremes.

Good goals tonight, particularly the first one. He's a good header of the ball, wins a lot of long balls for someone like Theo to latch on to, overall I like him.

Gay

[Niall_Quinn]

Well no, he's not shit. He's not RvP either but there's a whole range of abilities in the middle of those two extremes.

Good goals tonight, particularly the first one. He's a good header of the ball, wins a lot of long balls for someone like Theo to latch on to, overall I like him.

What two extremes, you only mentioned one? There's RvP at one end, shit in the middle and Chamakh at the other end.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Giroud :bow:

Proving the doubters wrong :bow:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Giroud :bow:

Proving the doubters wrong :bow:

And they were having so much fun, writing him off!

[Letters]

What two extremes, you only mentioned one? There's RvP at one end, shit in the middle and Chamakh at the other end.
:lol:


:p

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, Giroud isn't shit. He's above that. Piss poor maybe but not shit.

[selassie]

I think he'd make an excellent sub/squaddie if we manage to bring in Villa or someone of that ilk, yeah I know not going to happen.

Giroud is a pretty good player IMO, he won't win us titles but he's done OK so far.

[Özim]

Yeah he's a decent sub, don't mind him but we need to bring in a top striker.

[KSE Comedy Club]

He was great last night, he had everything - pace, power, composure, desire.

He's only gonna get better.

[Cripps_orig]

Pace? Really?

[GP]

He was great last night, he had everything - pace, power, composure, desire.

He's only gonna get better.

You have to understand that for some people it's impossible to admit when they're wrong.