Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich

[Marc Overmars]

:tumbleweed:

[Özim]

Pathetic, no reaction to Saturday, never looked capable of producing a shock, indeed the only way we scored was when the ref gifted us a corner which anyone with eyes could see wasn't. Even with that bit of luck we still mustered f*ck all.

Same thing we see every season and probably will next and every season until Wenger f*cks off.

[hobson's choice]

It's over, we are now just another team. Bayern basically put out a C performance, and coasted

[Marc Overmars]

At least we can now focus on the one trophy that really matters.

[Globalgunner]

Great performance by the lads, they really lived up to their reputation of being crap. The ref was our best player, without him it would have been 3-0. This way we can hold our heads high. At least were better than Celtic

[Fats]

Wenger is a deluded old fool who is ruining our club.

Fuck this team

[topgun]

Way out of depth really hard to believe there was a time we would have given this lot a game,cant even feel angry its just very very sad to see.Time to go back to the drawing board and learn how to defend:oldboy:

[Joker]

Yeah the only silver lining is that we'll be out of Europe in 3 weeks time meaning no more distractions on the quest for 4th. It would help if we did something different (in a positive way) one of these seasons. It seems every year it's the same old story, getting knocked out of all cup competitions by late February/early March and then scrapping into 4th.

[Munchies]

Why the feck are we crossing the ball when we got Walcott up front with 6ft defenders like Van Buyten ?
Why is Cazorla in his position when he can't track back ?

[selassie]

Outclassed. They are a level above us.

[Marc Overmars]

Rinse and repeat.

[hobson's choice]

.Time to go back to the drawing board and learn how to defend:oldboy:


Not just defend, we have a team that simply can't break down a team, unless it's a counter attack.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Obviously disappointed. But it panned out how the majority of people predicted. That numbs it, Bayern are a lot better than us. The effort was solid. Thing is we don't have the real quality to haul ourselves back in games when getting beaten at this level, as opposed to games in years gone by.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah the only silver lining is that we'll be out of Europe in 3 weeks time meaning on more distractions on the quest for 4th. It would help if we did something different (in a positive way) one of these seasons. It seems every year it's the same old story, getting knocked out of all cup competitions by late February/early March and then scrapping into 4th.

Then we can brag about consistently qualifying for a competition we have no chance of winning. That's what it's all about.

[Niall_Quinn]

Four crap goals, all heavily assisted by shit defending. If girouds chance went in then who knows? Jack and Cazorla are good enough to play at this level, and maybe pods. The rest? Not really. The defense and keeper are wickedly bad. Walcott predictably shit in the central role and Wenger waited far too long to change it. Terrible selection and formation from him, as expected. We're out and without much of a fight. At least it wasn't a right thumping.

Now we can focus on getting back into this comp next year so we can be easily knocked out again. The money is nice though. For some.

Kroenke is a massive massive **** btw.

[adzzzbatch]

Pathetic. That really was pathetic. I was looking for a response to Saturday's unshocking defeat to blackburn and that's what we get. AGAIN. We always hear the same shit from the manager and the players (who the manager is responsible for) that we owe it to everyone to prove ourselves blah blah blah, but no they deliver that, Bayern are miles better than us, just look at their players! I wasn't expecting a win, but to make it so easy for them, fucking hell!!

Although I'm sure in many ways it's media's fault for the loss after the presser yesterday....

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Sometime I wonder what goes on in our training sessions. Completely and utterly hopeless and incompetent . No organisation, no plan, no tactics, no strategy to beat our opponents.

It's not the fact that we lost, it's the manner in which we pathetically go out with a whimper every time we face a superior team. West Ham would have given a better challenge to Bayern tonight.

Wenger, Gazidis and Kroenke out.

[topgun]

Not like me but I felt a bit sorry for Wenger tonight,the guy looks lost and confused and devoid of any idea of what to do about it.:oldboy:

[Özim]

In the situation we were in, we basically should have come out all guns blazing and tried to rattle Bayern....as usual though we're so f*cking pathetic there's no real desire to prove anything, we play like we always play nothing different.

[Marc Overmars]

The only player I have any time for these days is Wheelchair. You can see him instructing on the pitch, trying to drive us forward. Why is he the only one brave enough to have a go? It's quite sad.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDf5HjBCAAEpMui.jpg

Training sessions of old...

[Özim]

Joly nice looking empty stadium.

[Özim]

No handshake or interview by Wenger.....bottler :lol:

[Munchies]

What a timely ad:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDf05GnCQAA-13D.jpg

[Ralpheroo72]

Hardly a surprise. Most associated with the club would walk past you, if you lay dying in the street. We mean nothing to Stan and Ivan, at the end of the day, its all about the $$$$$. Every year we line the pockets of this scum, and we get nothing in return.

[Munchies]

No handshake or interview by Wenger.....bottler :lol:

He hid from the ITV reporter aswell :D

[leaf]

poor team selection poor players no idea at all. we really are a mid table team i really hope we dont finish 4th it just gets more and more embarrasing

[Globalgunner]

Why is anyone suprised. When wenger had possibly the greatest collection of talent this club had ever seen from 2000-2004 and when he was at the peak of his powers. He couldnt even make a semi of the CL. With this coterie of mostly journeymen and Wenger himself in his dotage...it can only get worse frankly.

[Munchies]

Why is anyone suprised. When wenger had possibly the greatest collection of talent this club had ever seen from 2000-2004 and when he was at the peak of his powers. He couldnt even make a semi of the CL. With this coterie of mostly journeymen and Wenger himself in his dotage...it can only get worse frankly.

Blame that fucker Wayne Bridge the ****

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I'm not moved in the slightest. No feeling of anger and frustration after watching my team pub it against a real big club. This is where Arsene has taken us after having his legion of followers gobble up the club spiel he's spouted for the last 7-8 years.

Read somewhere this morn PHW saying Wenger's still the right man for the job. Surely, he and the rest of slimy vultures that are a part of the Board, along with the maggot of a owner are not fans of the club. A bunch of profiteering ****s the lot of them.

Sad, real fucking sad that Wenger lifted us so high, only to drag us to the lowest ebb.

15 years of CL footie, a cup we don't really compete for same as the EPL and FA Cup - YAY! Woot, woot! :confetti:

[fakeyank]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDf5HjBCAAEpMui.jpg

Training sessions of old...

Fuck U :(

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Not like me but I felt a bit sorry for Wenger tonight,the guy looks lost and confused and devoid of any idea of what to do about it.:oldboy:

I don't.

I attribute 65% of our current predicament to Kroenke and Gazidis but Wenger must take responsibility for his failures. The guy gets paid 7 million a year, which is one of the highest salaries in world football and he must be held to account. There's no reason to feel any sorrow for him.

It's been mentioned before but by way our teams are set out, it seems clear that Wenger doesn't really instruct or drill different tactics and strategies to the team depending on what opponent they are facing. He just tells them to play their natural game and the goals and the victory will naturally come - that's simply not good enough right now. It's not because of laziness, I don't doubt that Wenger works long hours but rather it's arrogance. An arrogant belief that his tactics and his one size fits purist approach will be enough instead of having to get into the weeds and compromise his style of football in order to win games.

He could get away with it when we had world class mentally strong leaders on the pitch, i.e. Invincibles and 98 squad but it won't work right now with our current spineless mentally fragile shower of shite.

[Arsenal Fan]

any wenger post match interviews?

[Munchies]

Fuck U :(

:( , my favourite Arsenal shirt is my Pires no7 04/05 one . Haven't brought a printed shirt with a players name since Henry left

[Munchies]

any wenger post match interviews?

Chiles said he done a runner from Gabriel Clarke rofl

[Kano]

Obviously disappointed. But it panned out how the majority of people predicted. That numbs it, Bayern are a lot better than us. The effort was solid. Thing is we don't have the real quality to haul ourselves back in games when getting beaten at this level, as opposed to games in years gone by.
as wilshere himself said and as we saw in the second half, we fucked it from the start. fair enough expected a defeat but quite a few also hoped we could at least turn up for the first leg, not the usual tepid, scared start.

[Globalgunner]

Hardly a surprise. Most associated with the club would walk past you, if you lay dying in the street. We mean nothing to Stan and Ivan, at the end of the day, its all about the $$$$$. Every year we line the pockets of this scum, and we get nothing in return..

People need to get real with this misinformation. Kroenke has not taken 1 dollar out of the clu ...YET. In shareholding. You can only take money out of the club IF the club declares a dividend. I which case both Kroenke, the Uzbek and the AST members will all get a fair share. Kroenke cannot just pay himself unilaterally. The directors get a sitting allowance but unless a dividend has been declared (i know not) since SK took over then all our money is sitting in a bank or being paid to shit like squillaci and Walnutt.

Our problems are squarely down to the emperor at the helm....you know the one who sits with a weasel face at the sidelines struggling with selection, tactics and his zipper.

[Özim]

any wenger post match interviews?
No he didn't want people looking at him whilst asking questions.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Oh, and Wenger's pre-arranged sub of Podolski, just bloody awesome.


One Arsene Wenger :bow:

[Munchies]

@FootballFunnys

Single Arsenal matchday ticket today = £94.50. Bayern Munich season ticket = £96.75.

--
Piers retweeted that, that can't be true ???

[Özim]

@FootballFunnys

Single Arsenal matchday ticket today = £94.50. Bayern Munich season ticket = £96.75.

--
Piers retweeted that, that can't be true ???
It's not a fair comparison, they're a big club and also spend money on big transfers.

[topgun]

There was a time there would have been two big clubs on show tonight.:oldboy:

[Munchies]

There was a time there would have been two big clubs on show tonight.:oldboy:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00965/74_invincibles_682x_965618a.jpg

[Marc Overmars]

as wilshere himself said and as we saw in the second half, we fucked it from the start. fair enough expected a defeat but quite a few also hoped we could at least turn up for the first leg, not the usual tepid, scared start.

Deep down I expected a defeat but you always hope to be wrong. The sad thing about this team is how predictable they are, they never prove their doubters wrong. This has gone beyond the lack of trophies now for a lot of fans I imagine, it's the weak-willed performances and lack of pride and identity I find difficult to stomach.

[Munchies]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "They are team with quality and are very efficient, they are a good side, so congratulations to Bayern.

"Let's not hide the truth it will be very difficult [in the second leg] and we will try to make the impossible possible. We will try to play like we do at home and try to change the score. The third goal makes it very difficult but we will try.

"Our fans were fantastic tonight, we were very disappointed we couldn't give them the win they wanted of course. But [losing to Blackburn] it was not the best preparation mentally, but the players worked very hard and gave absolutely everything, I believe the third goal was a mental blow for the team, but it's very difficult when you are 2-0 down."

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

men vs boys.

[leaf]

play like we do at home eh? so everyone plays out of position with woeful defending. great tactics Arsene
Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger: "They are team with quality and are very efficient, they are a good side, so congratulations to Bayern.

"Let's not hide the truth it will be very difficult [in the second leg] and we will try to make the impossible possible. We will try to play like we do at home and try to change the score. The third goal makes it very difficult but we will try.

"Our fans were fantastic tonight, we were very disappointed we couldn't give them the win they wanted of course. But [losing to Blackburn] it was not the best preparation mentally, but the players worked very hard and gave absolutely everything, I believe the third goal was a mental blow for the team, but it's very difficult when you are 2-0 down."

[I_Killed_Kenny]

Just got back from the game. Fucking dire. No fight, no ideas, no leadership, no imputus, no balls. Had fans fighting in front of me outa frustration. Its just so very sad.

We are the new spurs

[fakeyank]

Just got back from the game. Fucking dire. No fight, no ideas, no leadership, no imputus, no balls. Had fans fighting in front of me outa frustration. Its just so very sad.

We are the new spurs

Fans were fighting amongst themselves?! :lol:

And to think, I was thinking of going to London to watch a game this season.. next season perhaps :lol:

[Jimmy Valmer]

standard Arsenal performance...

[I_Killed_Kenny]

men vs boys.

Was worse than that. Subbuteo figures had better movement. Their fans had more organisation than our defence. Gutless

[I_Killed_Kenny]

Fans were fighting amongst themselves?! :lol:

And to think, I was thinking of going to London to watch a game this season.. next season perhaps :lol:

Yep, differing opinions and all that but we are turning on ourselves. The club is sucking life outa the fans like a bunch of dementors. About 5 lads got physically turfed. Wa quite funny though in a sad way.

Wasted £75 on that game, keep your money mate.

[RomfordPele]

Yep, atmosphere is turning pretty toxic over there now. Sad to see.

[leaf]

not good to hear fans fighting amongst themselves. i know of some kids going to school and getting grief for being arsenal fans

[Özim]

Was worse than that. Subbuteo figures had better movement.
World class ones or just the normal ones?

[Özim]

Not really that surprising the fighting, have you seen some of those tw*ts in the Nasri video?

[Letters]

men vs boys.
Pretty much.
Bayern are a very good side. Us...not so much.
2nd half we gave it a good go but in truth Bayern never got out of 2nd gear and once we got back into it they just stepped it up a bit and got the 2 goal cushion back.

I'm not going to wet my pants about a game I always thought we'd lose (well OK, I thought we might get something tonight but over the 2 legs I never expected us to go through). The Blackburn game pissed me off because our attitude was "just turn up, amble through it and we'll win". Tonight we were just beaten by a better side. We all knew they were a better side before the game.

:shrug:

[RomfordPele]

Any word from the nutty professor yet? Or has he gone missing like half his team did tonight?

[IBK]

.

People need to get real with this misinformation. Kroenke has not taken 1 dollar out of the clu ...YET. In shareholding. You can only take money out of the club IF the club declares a dividend. I which case both Kroenke, the Uzbek and the AST members will all get a fair share. Kroenke cannot just pay himself unilaterally. The directors get a sitting allowance but unless a dividend has been declared (i know not) since SK took over then all our money is sitting in a bank or being paid to shit like squillaci and Walnutt.

Our problems are squarely down to the emperor at the helm....you know the one who sits with a weasel face at the sidelines struggling with selection, tactics and his zipper.

:gp:

[I_Killed_Kenny]

World class ones or just the normal ones?

The cardboard pics on the box of figures tbh

[Injury Time]

We started with Ramsey. :ilt: tbf was one of his better performances but he's still shit.

I can't be arsed to post much having just got home, other than Arsene seem to have developed Total Cùntball where we specialise in the Cùñtér-attack where we press to the second third of the pitch and conspire to see how many thousands of passes it takes to get the ball back to our "goalkeeper". :banghead:

Oh and Vermalen as captain!? Captain Pugwash more like.

FUUUUUUUUUUUCK OFFFFFFFF!

That is all.

[Kano]

Pretty much.
Bayern are a very good side. Us...not so much.
2nd half we gave it a good go but in truth Bayern never got out of 2nd gear and once we got back into it they just stepped it up a bit and got the 2 goal cushion back.

I'm not going to wet my pants about a game I always thought we'd lose (well OK, I thought we might get something tonight but over the 2 legs I never expected us to go through). The Blackburn game pissed me off because our attitude was "just turn up, amble through it and we'll win". Tonight we were just beaten by a better side. We all knew they were a better side before the game.

:shrug:
you should wet your pants about the team showing up for half a game again. wilshere admitted it himself. nerves and all the usual crap meant we started like we usually do - half hearted. and by the time we woke up, the game was gone. let's not try and slide this off as 'oh well we knew we'd lose and we were totally outclassed' because quite frankly, we gave them every opportunity to do so. as is the norm.

we thought we might lose, fine. that doesn't mean just handing it to them as we did. bayern were excellent in the first half and we offered no resistance, just the usual shite defending and timid approach. the fact we started the second half better shows that we had it in us.

[Cripps_orig]

Just got back.

Match ticked all the boxes in terms of what I though would happen.

We are so predictable. 'twas an emotional night as it was our last home game in the CL for some time and also hopefully Wengers last home CL match.

Why was Podolski taken off? The crowd just went flat after that. Another predictable move though.

[Power n Glory]

:coffee:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

if it means wenger resigns at the end of the season then id take 5th.

we are going nowhere and need change. the sooner the better. riding out a few more years will just delay the inevitable.

who the hell will they appoint though? thats my next biggest worry.

[Niall_Quinn]

if it means wenger resigns at the end of the season then id take 5th.

we are going nowhere and need change. the sooner the better. riding out a few more years will just delay the inevitable.

who the hell will they appoint though? thats my next biggest worry.

Avram Grant if we are unlucky and they stay true to their ambitions, or Moyes if we are dogshit hopelessly unfortunate. Then it will all be about, "giving the new manager time"

Although watching Walcott go up for headers against brick shithouses and Wenger taking 70mins to twig how pointless that was is maybe a trap even avram would not fall into.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

also, that was bayern before pep?

should everyone just pack up and go home for the next 4 years?

[Cripps_orig]

also, that was bayern before pep?

should everyone just pack up and go home for the next 4 years?
Pep is average

[Özil's Panoramic View]

if it means wenger resigns at the end of the season then id take 5th.

we are going nowhere and need change. the sooner the better. riding out a few more years will just delay the inevitable.

who the hell will they appoint though? thats my next biggest worry.

Read that the out-going Bayern Munich manager is reconsidering his decision to retire from management come end of season. He's about 67 years old, but he has always been ambitious and is a winner. We could use his services, if it's even only for the short term - like say a 3 - 4 year stint. Surely, he could help to get us going in the right direction again, thereby making us attractive to other top managers and players.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

id take him but that isnt a compliment.

id take a blind bat right now because he'd be more useful than wenger.

[tpyo]

The only positive I got out of the game was the lulz for our goal..... and it wasn't even a corner :D :D :D :D

[Munchies]

Arsenal 1-0 Bayern 2005
Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Cole, Ljungberg (Van Persie 80), Flamini (Fabregas 63), Vieira, Reyes (Pires 63), Bergkamp, Henry

Arsenal 1 - 3 Bayern 2013
Szczesny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsey (Rosicky 71), Cazorla, Podolski (Giroud 71), Walcott.

--
And we still went out in 05 :beer:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

What can I say? I didnt want to post after Blackburn because I didnt want to say something out of character (Wenger must go). To be honest thought we could get something out of this game however I knew if we did then we would have to put up with Wumgers smug face for a while longer but we didnt and though it pains me to say it is all the club deserves.

I think we (the fans) have put up with enough, we understood to tighten our belts because of the stadium debt, we ran with the Project Youth idea and accepted the sellibg of our better players because it was easy to label most of them cu¥ts

I for one dont blame Wenger for all our failings, the players fail us time and time again through their stinking attitude, their lack of desire, the board fail us because even though their business model is admirable (we seem to make a profit) it is at the expense of sucess on the field of play (the actual place a sports team is judged). However Wenger is the cog, the middle man between those parties, after all his sucess he seens neither able enough to motivate the players nor strong/willing enough to demand that the board do everything in its power to address our glaring inadequacies.

The smell that all these factors produce, stinks. . .it smells of death. . ,the club is flat and it is obvious that new life needs to be breathed into it. A decent player in January would have done that as would a new manager come season end - how we thought is was good practice to send away more players than brought in - again -is beyond me.

Letters says we dont know that a new manager would be any better, that is true and I am one of the last to give unoptimistic opinion but. . .we will never know if we dont try. . .we cant look back on ten months of football and say that getting fourth is a sucess. . .the whole fucking attitude needs to change. . .people need to start caring. . .because at the moment the only people that seem to are the fans

Fuck they are going to be wheel Sir Bob Geldif out to do another charity concert on our behalf if we dont do something sharpish

[Munchies]

Kroenke and Usmanov were in the stands yesterday:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/19/article-2281218-17C06DD3000005DC-784_306x423.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/19/article-2281218-17C06D4A000005DC-755_306x423.jpg

Oh and the only player to wear the shirt for what it is (lol at Cazorla) :
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/19/article-2281218-17BEEC9C000005DC-469_634x481.jpg

[Munchies]

I think we (the fans) have put up with enough, we understood to tighten our belts because of the stadium debt, we ran with the Project Youth idea and accepted the sellibg of our better players because it was easy to label most of them cu¥ts

The fucking tickets are too fucking over-priced, today the tickets were £90 (an article had that figure), thats insane !

[-Xs-]

2003, we got stuff at home 0-3 by Inter, then went to their place and thrashed them 1-5.

So....it's still on right?....








....What?

[mastermind84]

Read that the out-going Bayern Munich manager is reconsidering his decision to retire from management come end of season. He's about 67 years old, but he has always been ambitious and is a winner. We could use his services, if it's even only for the short term - like say a 3 - 4 year stint. Surely, he could help to get us going in the right direction again, thereby making us attractive to other top managers and players.

doubt that happens. Heynckes and Wenger are BFFs

[Injury Time]

2003, we got stuff at home 0-3 by Inter, then went to their place and thrashed them 1-5.

So....it's still on right?....








....What?
You've been upside down too long.

[Letters]

you should wet your pants about the team showing up for half a game again. wilshere admitted it himself. nerves and all the usual crap meant we started like we usually do - half hearted. and by the time we woke up, the game was gone. let's not try and slide this off as 'oh well we knew we'd lose and we were totally outclassed' because quite frankly, we gave them every opportunity to do so. as is the norm.

we thought we might lose, fine. that doesn't mean just handing it to them as we did. bayern were excellent in the first half and we offered no resistance, just the usual shite defending and timid approach. the fact we started the second half better shows that we had it in us.
I'm more inclined to get upset about games like Blackburn where we had 11 players out there who were clearly better than the Blackburn players and thought they could coast through the game and somehow win. That's not good enough. Last night I think we were doing our best, we were just playing a much better side.

All season we've been lamenting how poor our squad is, we get dicked on by one of the best teams in Europe and suddenly it's because we weren't making enough effort.
We lacked quality, not effort. There were patches of the game where we put pressure on them but in truth Bayern never got out of 2nd gear and easily stepped it up to restore their 2 goal cushion.

[Marc Overmars]

It's more the manner of the defeat which is the cause of the anger.

Same old timid Arsenal, always proving their critics right.

[Kano]

I'm more inclined to get upset about games like Blackburn where we had 11 players out there who were clearly better than the Blackburn players and thought they could coast through the game and somehow win. That's not good enough. Last night I think we were doing our best, we were just playing a much better side.

All season we've been lamenting how poor our squad is, we get dicked on by one of the best teams in Europe and suddenly it's because we weren't making enough effort.
We lacked quality, not effort. There were patches of the game where we put pressure on them but in truth Bayern never got out of 2nd gear and easily stepped it up to restore their 2 goal cushion.
‘effort’ isn’t just running about chasing shadows – as we saw a dfferent us in the second half. Our best player last night admitted we started the game nervous, which meant our normal tepid approach going forward. If we were so amazingly outclassed, we would not have managed to push forward in the second half. It follows the same pattern we have seen again and again all season long. Bayern’s class had nothing to do with us not closing down the cross or blocking the shot for their first goal, or for our defenders standing and watching them score their second. We may have expected a hard game where we lost but to hand it to them after 20 minutes? It stinks to high fucking heaven. That annoys me far more than just losing a game to Bayern.

the pattern of being scared to play, conceding sloppy goals and losing a game before it has even started goes back for as long as we can remember now and last night was no different in that regard.

[Globalgunner]

Hull thumped the Blackburn yesterday. Imagine what they would do to us......Good thing we`er not in the same league as them.

Same league.....how appropos

[Globalgunner]

Thing is our style of play is so dire...We spend about 5 mins working the ball up to the opposing last 3rd, Sagna then decides not to cross and plays the ball all the way back to Mertesacker, who invariably plays it back to Chesney and then Mertesacker and then to Sagna. This is how our possession stats get so good, 60% yesterday but completely ineffectual possession. We did not have a shot on goal till about 65 mins. In defence we mark space and when crosses come in we focus on blocking the opposition players from getting to the ball, rather than challenging for the ball itself. Poor keeper, our players technique is poor. Walcott is a joke, Giroud aims for the keeper. No-one ever takes a shot from outside the box. Midfield is clumsy. Ramsey is an agent-provocateur for the opposing team. Vermaelen thinks he is De Kaiser loses the ball whenever he charges upfield.
All this has been repeating itself ad nauseum for the last 3 years and the man in charge just tells the boys the same thing game after game. "Just play your game chaps, the goals will come"

[server too busy!]

Sagna is poo at being an attacking RB, he can't beat his man and just ends up turning around, same for Podolski. The real problem is our defense, now is this down to those in front of them (so often it looks easy to play a ball straight past our midfield players and be in on defense) or is it the defenders themselves?

What I noticed as well were how good Bayern were at blocking shots and attempts on goal, if it were us those would be deflecting in on goal. Is that down to coaching or ability though?

[LDG]

Not gonna crucify the team for this, as they did put in a shift last night. Thought they worked hard, despite the mental lapses at the back again.

We were beaten by a far superior outfit, and whilst a change in tactics may have helped, we were always going to be beaten.

So here's the point:

The fans should be on the players side after last night. It's not their fault they aren't as good as Bayern. That's the fault of the rotten core at the club which has allowed us to fall so low.

There were two players last night which I would deem good enough to play against and compete with as side of Bayern Munich's quality WITHOUT any instruction from a manager. They are Wilshere and Rosicky. One is carrying the team as best he can, the other is sadly injury prone.

With that team, drilled and managed properly, we could have stifled them more, and we may have made our own luck. But we aren't, and we don't have the players capable of doing it on their own.

[Grebbo]

We lost to a better team, it happens.

Bayern also beat us at home in 2005 when we had Henry, Vieira and co.

Whilst we deserved to lose I don't think we are getting much luck at the moment. Ok, our goal last night wasn't a corner but all 3 of their goals last night were jammy. Even against Liverpool at home their two goals consisted of a deflection and a ball perfectly rebounding for Henderson.

[LDG]

We lost to a better team, it happens.

Bayern also beat us at home in 2005 when we had Henry, Vieira and co.

Whilst we deserved to lose I don't think we are getting much luck at the moment. Ok, our goal last night wasn't a corner but all 3 of their goals last night were jammy. Even against Liverpool at home their two goals consisted of a deflection and a ball perfectly rebounding for Henderson.

You make your own luck.

If we had stopped the source of the danger for their three goals (also known as having a left back), the unlucky way the ball went in wouldn't have been an issue.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

We lost to a better team, it happens.

Bayern also beat us at home in 2005 when we had Henry, Vieira and co.

Whilst we deserved to lose I don't think we are getting much luck at the moment. Ok, our goal last night wasn't a corner but all 3 of their goals last night were jammy. Even against Liverpool at home their two goals consisted of a deflection and a ball perfectly rebounding for Henderson.
You could say it was luck, but you had about 5 chances to clear our first and Henderson, who isn't exactly Drogba, was able to skip away from Mertesaker (?) and hold off Santos and was able to get a shot away before any of them even put a tackle in. I think Ramsey was the one who put the block in.

[Kano]

You make your own luck.

If we had stopped the source of the danger for their three goals (also known as having a left back), the unlucky way the ball went in wouldn't have been an issue.
which is my point. Yes bayern are better but we did everything possible to hand them the tie with 160 minutes still left. Can we not even lose a game with a fight? Or is 20 fucking minutes the best we can achieve in a home tie nowadays. Its absolutely pathetic how timid the team is and has been for so long.

We start the game with theo up against two giants, so no chance there with no spearhead to our team. Ramsey out wide – yes he is there to help retain possession and drop back into midfield but bar two games, when has that ever worked? Bayern set up the same with Muller out wide but ramsey is nowhere near that calibre.

So we are undermined with our starting line up and then we switch off for two goals and we’re fucked, any small inclining of a chance to get through to the next round completely and utterly buried. I can accept losing to a better team but I can’t accept watching us roll over and getting done time and time again. Great, we ran about a lot, fantastic. Bayern were great but we also let them dominate the game because once again we were fucking scared.

We won’t get fourth, which I accepted at the start of the season but that won’t be enough to push wenger out the door as the new message will be ‘well one season out of 17 is not too bad is it’. Even if we did get into fourth, what is in store for next season? Justification of his approach more of the exact same.

[Grebbo]

You could say it was luck, but you had about 5 chances to clear our first and Henderson, who isn't exactly Drogba, was able to skip away from Mertesaker (?) and hold off Santos and was able to get a shot away before any of them even put a tackle in. I think Ramsey was the one who put the block in.

Didn't Henderson get his shot away and then it was saved/blocked off one player on to another player and then the ball rolled right into Henderson's path for a tap in? I'm sure it was something like that.

Anyway they all count and we were well beaten last night I'm not disputing that. It just seems that when you're on a bad run you don't get any breaks whereas the opposition often does.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Didn't Henderson get his shot away and then it was saved/blocked off one player on to another player and then the ball rolled right into Henderson's path for a tap in? I'm sure it was something like that.

Anyway they all count and we were well beaten last night I'm not disputing that. It just seems that when you're on a bad run you don't get any breaks whereas the opposition often does.
Ramsey blocked his first shot, it hit Santos and rolled into Henderson's path. You could say lucky (I'd be hesitant to since no one would have said it was unlucky for us if it hit Santos and went straight to Sneezy), but he should never have been allowed to get that close to the goal in the first place, nevermind have a shot.

You could say the same about last night's goals. Their first was a poor cross but there was no picking them up, their second was just dreadful defending. I'll let you have their third, since it looped up and in. I take the point about when you are on a bad run you don't get the breaks, but a lot of the time that's just down to bad defending/finishing/passing/concentration. An example for Liverpool last season; we hit the post a silly number of times. That stops being bad luck and is just put down to poor finishing after a while. And because we couldn't score, our defensive mistakes and lapses were often more important than they should have been and just conceding one was more of a mountain than it should have been. And as you say, you got your own slice of luck with your goal from the "corner"; but even then Bayern themselves will be disappointed with their defending and letting it bounce in their own 6 yard box.

[Özim]

Didn't Henderson get his shot away and then it was saved/blocked off one player on to another player and then the ball rolled right into Henderson's path for a tap in? I'm sure it was something like that.

Anyway they all count and we were well beaten last night I'm not disputing that. It just seems that when you're on a bad run you don't get any breaks whereas the opposition often does.
We got a break, we'd been comprehensively outplayed by a Bayern who to be honest didn't play that well and as Letters said didn't get out of 2nd gear when we got a goal form a corner which anyone with eyes could see was never one.

Before this we didn't offer any threat at all and huffed and puffed a bit, so we got our break (one we didn't deserve and still couldn't make the most of it). We've been on a bad run for much of this season, guess why? We're not good enough, the manager hasn't coached the players, the tactics are non existent, the defending is atrocious and there's a lack of quality due to his poor signings.

There's no excuses for what is car crash management, I'd have expected players to come out and really get in the faces of the Bayern players and run their hearts out, that's how you react to adversity, by fighting for and chasing every ball until you can't anymore....when the chips are down we collapse in a heap as we have done for as many years as I can remember under Wenger.

[Marc Overmars]

You make your own luck really. Everyone has moments which go for or against them, there's no point in dwelling on things like that. Our last 2 league wins have come about from deflected attempts.

[Niall_Quinn]

You make your own luck.

If we had stopped the source of the danger for their three goals (also known as having a left back), the unlucky way the ball went in wouldn't have been an issue.

Exactly right, if you spend more time in the opponents penalty box and less in your own then "luck" will go your way.

We have a serious problem at the back, one that had existed ever since cashley left. It has to be a tactical decision by the manager because Clichy (eventually), Gibbs, Santos and even Vermaelen all do it - they leave a huge space for the opposition to play into and they leave yards between themselves and their man. Remember how cashley and Clichy used to arrive at high speed and be all over their man like a rash?

Similar problems in the centre of defence, players standing off and letting the opposition walk through our intricate zonal system, literally walk through, take up prime position and score. We say we don't have any defensive tactics but I think it just looks that way. I think we probably have some horrible, complex, convoluted bullshit system that no defender would comprehend. It's not disorganisation, it's total confusion. Which is why it's so bizarre to have bought a defender like Merts. Surely if you buy him you go man-to-man at the back and clobber everything that comes near? How can Merts even get in the game if he's zonal and has to quickly cover short distances in reaction to what fast and intelligent front men are doing?

That's probably why TV looks like a headless chicken, and Kos. They are dashing around the place like loons. Almost as if they have two positions to cover in whatever fucked up system we are using. That's why playing Walcott central is a shit idea too. We used to use RvP's size and heading ability in defensive situations and from set pieces. He was an extra man at the back and effective. Giroud could be that too (and has been), we can't afford to have these guys off the pitch. The whole Walcott through the middle thing is a non-starter unless we are going to get a new Vieria to provide the essential cover required for luxury players who can only fill one role. Which is maybe why we have persisted with Diaby... and on it goes. We should have sold Walcott and splashed £30-£40 on a proper striker - it would have been cheaper in the long run because he could have fired us back into Europe.

We make all our own problems. It's not about being unlucky it's about a system that just doesn't work unless there's very high quality mixed with steel. We have sold our quality and the steel has been gone for a long time. We need to get back to the very basics but there's too much arrogance in this manager and way to much arrogance and complacency in the players. So maybe a new manager will work at least in that respect.

That was such a clueless and pointless team selection last night. And the fact Wenger didn't change it when it was so clearly not working was scandalous. Anyone would look bad in this team I think, except for Jack who's such quality he can do the things that stand out despite the rabble around him. Which is a shame because increasingly Jack is running around with a huge price tag on his back. What a horrible situation to be in when you hope your best player has an off night so he doesn't attract attention.

[LDG]

Exactly right, if you spend more time in the opponents penalty box and less in your own then "luck" will go your way.

We have a serious problem at the back, one that had existed ever since cashley left. It has to be a tactical decision by the manager because Clichy (eventually), Gibbs, Santos and even Vermaelen all do it - they leave a huge space for the opposition to play into and they leave yards between themselves and their man. Remember how cashley and Clichy used to arrive at high speed and be all over their man like a rash?

Similar problems in the centre of defence, players standing off and letting the opposition walk through our intricate zonal system, literally walk through, take up prime position and score. We say we don't have any defensive tactics but I think it just looks that way. I think we probably have some horrible, complex, convoluted bullshit system that no defender would comprehend. It's not disorganisation, it's total confusion. Which is why it's so bizarre to have bought a defender like Merts. Surely if you buy him you go man-to-man at the back and clobber everything that comes near? How can Merts even get in the game if he's zonal and has to quickly cover short distances in reaction to what fast and intelligent front men are doing?

That's probably why TV looks like a headless chicken, and Kos. They are dashing around the place like loons. Almost as if they have two positions to cover in whatever fucked up system we are using. That's why playing Walcott central is a shit idea too. We used to use RvP's size and heading ability in defensive situations and from set pieces. He was an extra man at the back and effective. Giroud could be that too (and has been), we can't afford to have these guys off the pitch. The whole Walcott through the middle thing is a non-starter unless we are going to get a new Vieria to provide the essential cover required for luxury players who can only fill one role. Which is maybe why we have persisted with Diaby... and on it goes. We should have sold Walcott and splashed £30-£40 on a proper striker - it would have been cheaper in the long run because he could have fired us back into Europe.

We make all our own problems. It's not about being unlucky it's about a system that just doesn't work unless there's very high quality mixed with steel. We have sold our quality and the steel has been gone for a long time. We need to get back to the very basics but there's too much arrogance in this manager and way to much arrogance and complacency in the players. So maybe a new manager will work at least in that respect.

That was such a clueless and pointless team selection last night. And the fact Wenger didn't change it when it was so clearly not working was scandalous. Anyone would look bad in this team I think, except for Jack who's such quality he can do the things that stand out despite the rabble around him. Which is a shame because increasingly Jack is running around with a huge price tag on his back. What a horrible situation to be in when you hope your best player has an off night so he doesn't attract attention.

Spot on.

The bolded bit is the real problem. It is becomming increasingly obvious that our glorious teams of the past were left to organise and motivate themselves. And we got away with it, because they were "exceptional quality".

[IBK]

I get the point being made by those who are saying that we simply got beaten by the better team, and contrasting this to the Blackburn; Bradford and other games - but IMO this does not invalidate some of the complaints being made in this thread.

Bayern were indeed the obviously superior team - and in fact I found myself admiring their style of play; attitude and authority with which they bossed us around.

But firstly, this served to highlight our dismal decline as a team. On the latest figures, we are the 6th richest club in the world by revenue (incidentally, 2 places behind Bayern Munich). We should be challenging them, not being totally outclassed by them. This may be controversial, but in my view, Wenger is as guilty as the rest of the board in the decisions that have led to this sorry state of affairs. He has at at the very least colluded in, and IMHO orchestrated the sale of our best players year on year. If these sales were 'imposed' on him (which I cannot believe) then Wenger is as guilty as anyone in accepting it - when given his unprecedented position of power at our club he could have walked, (or threatened to) and gone to one of those many clubs that he claims have been in for him over the years unless he was allowed to keep players that he had put so much effort into to make them world beaters. In the unlikely 'imposed' situation - simply by staying, the manager has accepted his club being an also ran - which is simply unacceptable for a manager of what should be a top team on 7M per year.

Moreover - to the extent that our best players have become disillusioned with the club and have left - whose fault is that? If Wenger had won some silverware over the past 8 years then maybe that would have persuaded them to stay. That is the basic and unavoidable truth. The board doesn't pick the team; does not train them; is not responsible for motivating them, for guiding them. The manager is. And anywhere else - anywhere with a grain of self respect or ambition he would be held accountable.

It is no surprise to me that our best players have left. They can see even better than us that this possession game - this tippy tap bollox - is not working. Why do we start games so inhibited? Why do we play games with the handbreak on? Because the players do not believe that they can win. If you are in a fight to the death, holding a rusty Colt 45, against an opponent with a Desert Eagle then you will shit yourself.

Wenger makes a fool of himself in the media by bigging up his players - presumably on the basis that he thinks that this will instill confidence in them. What will instill confidence is a game plan; some proper coaching; some proper tactical preparation and an intimate understanding of what is expected from you and your team-mates. Bayern had all of this, added to a winning track record. We had none - and it was obvious a mile off.

And this is where the comparisons between Bayern and Blackburn ring true. Our players tried harder last night, yes - but the ease with which both opponents frustrated us simply by sticking to their game plans; and our cluelessness when it came to ours werre there for all to see.

Results don't lie. They are straightforward evidence that Wenger's methods on the football pitch are not working (and probably only ever worked because of the players he inherited, and his mastery of European scouting at a time when most of the rest of the EPL was miles behind). Yet the manager refuses to see this, and in the meantime, our stock as a football club sinks lower and lower. We are already on the transition where we will soon not even be regarded as underachievers - and when you think that in 03/04 we were unbeaten in the league, and 2 years from completion of the best football ground in the country, the decline to what we saw last night is very, very sad.

By failing to focus on success on the pitch, the club has got things very wrong - and I honestly wonder how long we will remain in the football rich list. I think we have probably already lost a whole generation of worldwide support, and while Kroenke and Usmanov sit on their piles of money, I fear that the foundations of the club's value are already eroded. Wenger - with his absolutely unprecedented prominence and power at AFC is an intrinsic part of this.

[Marc Overmars]

Verm at LB has never worked, he's always going to drift inside because that's where he feels comfortable. It's a shame about Gibbs but him being out for a lengthy period happens every year so there's no surprises there

I don't understand why Rosicky isn't in the team, he's a heck of a lot better than Ramzi and also provides the same ability to cover ground.

The biggest fuck up though was not playing Giroud. Playing Theo against the brutes in their back 4 was just silly, I'm pretty sure they weren't even jumping to win headers against him at one point. You play Theo against teams you know will give you space, not against drilled units like this.

[Kano]

The biggest fuck up though was not playing Giroud. Playing Theo against the brutes in their back 4 was just silly, I'm pretty sure they weren't even jumping to win headers against him at one point. You play Theo against teams you know will give you space, not against drilled units like this.
the only logic i can think of is that he thought theo's pace could keep their back four deep and give us more space to exploit between their mid and def. the only problem is, this wasn't fucking reading or some other numpties we were playing but one of the best drilled teams in europe. i mean jesus, you take it as read that ANY german term will arrive organised and pretty hard to break down - as we found with 8th place schalke earlier in the group stage.

agree about rosicky. when he came on he had energy. much needed energy and drive to do something. why not put him out wide instead of ramsey, who never works out there? rosicky needs to be back in the side for the run-in, without question.

[Power n Glory]

I have no idea what Wenger is thinking with this squad selection. Theo was playing on the shoulder or the Munich defenders all night but was getting no service. I have no idea why he wasn't dropping deeper to at least get a touch of the ball and play a few one twos with other players.

Pod isn't involved for most of the game because he's having his own fitness battle on the pithch. It's more of a cardio work out for him. He's slow to get back to defend and he's slow to get into good attacking positions on breaks. He hasn't got the engine for the flanks and he'll end up like Arshavin if not careful.

The midfield trio have no positional awareness and no cohesion. Wenger needs to bring in Rosicky because his brief cameo sparked one of the best moves of the evening.

We're already in February and I can't believe Wenger is still using the same players and tactics after countless games of looking harmless. It makes no sense. The most radical move last night was starting Theo up front on his own and that was just silly. It made no sense to do that against a well drilled German team in a high profile game like this.

[Seymour Butts]

Fans were fighting amongst themselves?! :lol:

And to think, I was thinking of going to London to watch a game this season.. next season perhaps :lol:

Used to be a season ticket holder myself - only time I have ever seen trouble at Emirates was Arsenal fans fighting amoungst themselves - seen it a couple of times

[Xhaka Can’t]

Any scouts from teams with an actual ambition to achieve on a football pitch would look at Jack and ignore the rest of our team.

They'd then report back that they should sign him and we will probably sell him.

And then we truly will be a team with no talent, no leadership and no fight.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Wenger could do with watching Milan's match tonight.

He could learn a lot about enforcing team discipline, shape and tactics that can enable any half decent set of of players to look like a solid team that's capable of beating a superior outfit on paper. That could have been us against Bayern.

[Kano]

i was watching that thinking exactly the same thing.

[hobson's choice]

Any scouts from teams with an actual ambition to achieve on a football pitch would look at Jack and ignore the rest of our team.

They'd then report back that they should sign him and we will probably sell him.

And then we truly will be a team with no talent, no leadership and no fight.

Can we please stop this with Jack thing now, he's ok, but please pump the brakes, with this over the top blah blah of how great he is.

[Globalgunner]

Thanks for that. We always go about overblowing our players. Jack is good but is he great, certainly not yet. His game does not have goals in it unlike other age group like Goetze or Reus. He had more goals in him when he was playing in the reserves, but then he had another coach.

This team needs a saviour, yes but jack is not it. last year RVP was essentially the difference between us and the Spuds with his goals. This year Im afraid it will be the great ape banging in goals for their otherwise mediocre team.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Can we please stop this with Jack thing now, he's ok, but please pump the brakes, with this over the top blah blah of how great he is.

I stated that he would be the only player on our team that the scouts would be interested in. Not sure what you've been reading.

[Özim]

Got to say I agree about Wilshere.

No doubt he fights for everything and tries to make things happen and he had to be applauded for that, but 95% of the time he overruns it or makes the wrong choice and loses the ball.

He's one of our best players and very good, but he's a long way from being a real worldbeater and he can't pull us out of a hole when we need it.

[Power n Glory]

He's not having much of an influence over the midfield at the moment. I'm not sure about his positioning at the moment. Maybe he needs to play deeper to have more of an influence. I think we're missing Rosicky in a major way.

[Letters]

95% of the time? That's definitely not some made-up figure you just pulled out of your arse :sarcy:

[Kano]

i think in a more successful team we'd see a more disciplined jack but he recognises that if he doesn't dive into the heart of teams, no-one else around him will. we are definitely not getting the best or seeing the best of him at the moment. that said, what he does offer is still exciting.

i wouldn't mind seeing him deeper, with rosicky at the head of the midfield again. santi has done ok so far but it was noticeable that when tomas came on, he gave instant energy and purpose to what we were doing. in a minute or two he had launched a great ball over to feo, who fed giroud for that volley.

ramsey is used out wide and it never works, so whilst we lose some of rosicky's edge, i'd rather see him out there if wenger wants to set up with an extra midfielder on the wing.

[Power n Glory]

Just watching how Pirlo operates for Juve or how Barca play...it's really depressing seeing how we struggle to play the ball out from the back in most games. Our CB's can't find an open man and it pisses me off to keep seeing Arteta slowly jog away from open spaces and pointing so he doesn't receive the ball. He can't pass or turn a man under pressure. Has no idea how to create space for himself so he doesn't want the ball.

Ramsey doesn't have the technique to pick the ball up from deep. He's an idiot sometimes. He gets in people's way, comes rushing in so fast to receive the ball that he's more than likely to mis-control with a heavy touch. His passing is inaccurate...can't be trusted back there. Forget Cazorla....

But once that problem is solved, we'd still need someone further up to create chances and wingers attacking fullbacks. How team is off balanced. Pod has no idea what he's doing and Walcott plays off the shoulder of the last man too much because he's looking for goals. It's a mess.

[Özim]

95% of the time? That's definitely not some made-up figure you just pulled out of your arse :sarcy:
It's obviously not an accurate figure, the point is a lot of the time he just overruns it or runs into too many players, he's not as good in possession as he could be.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Folks need to lay off Jack. He's done and continues to do very well considering the utter bags of turds he has as a supporting cast.

[Marc Overmars]

Wheelchair still has a lot to work on but he's still better than others around him. It's just a shame we'll bury him under the weight of carrying this flagging team.

[Özim]

Don't think people are having a go, just putting the hype into perspective.

[server too busy!]

Seriously guys, you expect one player to dominate a midfield??

The kids in his very early 20's and is by far our most consistant player, he's the only one that drives forward without passing people to death and makes things happen.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Seriously guys, you expect one player to dominate a midfield??

The kids in his very early 20's and is by far our most consistant player, he's the only one that drives forward without passing people to death and makes things happen.

Agreed. Only player we have who plays with any semblance of urgency.

Consider also that he's in a team filled with players whose off the ball movement to get in advantangeous position for a through ball or an incisive pass is almost non-existent.

[Özim]

Not to dominate the midfield no, the point was he often overruns the ball rather than releasing it. He worked hard the other night but quite often ran at Bayern through the middle until he got crowded out, he didn't look for the pass before he got stopped.

[Power n Glory]

Seriously guys, you expect one player to dominate a midfield??

The kids in his very early 20's and is by far our most consistant player, he's the only one that drives forward without passing people to death and makes things happen.

It's going to be tough for him but he's not on his own and it's surprising to see that neither he Arteta or Cazorla can get a partnership going. The way we're playing reminds me of when we had Song, Ramsey and Arteta in the midfield last year. There was no cohesion and the introduction of Rosicky changed the tempo of our play and we looked more fluid. That's the sort of dominance/influence I expect to see from Jack and Cazorla but it's not happening. It's possible for one player to keep everything ticking in the middle. Besides Rosicky, I remember the sort of influence Cesc had when he arrived and was younger. I think we need that sort of player back at the club to dictate the tempo and to conduct play through the middle. At the moment we look so disjointed and easy to mark. It's a struggle just playing the ball out from the back for most games and we're not even playing tippy tappy. We used to have teams pinned back in their own half for most of the game and it seems a real struggle for us to do that these days. It's just not right at the moment.

[Kano]

Not to dominate the midfield no, the point was he often overruns the ball rather than releasing it. He worked hard the other night but quite often ran at Bayern through the middle until he got crowded out, he didn't look for the pass before he got stopped.
i think you need to look at the reasons why, rather than just picking out the faults in his game. he realises that if it isn't him, no-one else is going to do something decisive. his frustration in that regard was clear to see when we played away to chelsea, waving his arms as to why no other fucker was working to close them down.

[Letters]

i think you need to look at the reasons why, rather than just picking out the faults in his game. he realises that if it isn't him, no-one else is going to do something decisive. his frustration in that regard was clear to see when we played away to chelsea, waving his arms as to why no other fucker was working to close them down.
That. Sometimes he goes on these runs and you sense he would pass it if any bugger was making a run - his final ball playing people in is often very good. If he doesn't pass it's probably because no-one is making the run for him and he ends up losing it.

As an aside, I saw him and Vermy having a go at each other on Tuesday, doesn't seem to me that Vermealan is much respected as captain. I thought he'd do a good job but he hasn't.

[Marc Overmars]

Wheelchair is captain material, I would personally give him the armband in the summer and even look at selling Vermaelen if there was a top CB we could bring in.

[Letters]

I'd go with that. He's young but he's just about our best player and one of the few who gets what it means to play for The Arsenal.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Wheelchair is captain material, I would personally give him the armband in the summer and even look at selling Vermaelen if there was a top CB we could bring in.

Vermaelen's decline over the past year has been seriously depressing.

I two, was confident that he'd make a good captain, in particular after seeing him in his first few years where he seemed not only a capable defender but also a vocal and cool leader on the pitch. I suppose it's a lot easier to be vocal and loud when you're surrounded by quality players like Gallas, Cesc, Nasri and RVP, but when you're surrounded by a sea of shite and where you have to stand out more it's a lot more difficult. RVP managed it last year but Vermelean seems incapable. Though to be fair to the guy, I'm not sure how much of it is his own mental weakness or him being "Arsenalised".

Sell in the summer.

[GP]

I'd go with that. He's young but he's just about our best player and one of the few who gets what it means to play for The Arsenal.

Adams was young too, and some say he did alright.

The problem is though, it's hard to strip a player of the captaincy unless you sell him.

[Kano]

NQ made a good observation yesterday that rings true, in terms of his and kos running around like nutters covering here, there and everywhere. With merts being asked to play zonally he has little or no hope of dealing with players around that area as he is far from mobile, so kos and verm dart around trying to cover two or three different areas and our defence falls to pieces. I’m been a big critic of verm this season but that has given me food for thought. I think in many ways that applies to verm always rushing forward out of position, mostly in situations where he trying to make things happen because the front lot are not up to much. Not excusing his silly mistakes or poor positioning at times but I think there is more to it than meets the eye.

The bigger picture with zonal marking isn’t an issue in particular because every other team in the prem plays the same – it’s just they have organization the right players to do the job.