Sick murder in Woolich

[The Wengerbabies]

Macheteing an man in Woolwich.

Sick fucks.

[Cripps_orig]

Maybe the an man deserved it.

[GP]

Macheteing an man in Woolwich.

Sick fucks.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UgnxmbviHxI/R1HxRwQbgiI/AAAAAAAACvI/HecuWU33OVQ/s400/hope-it-is-a-joke.jpg

[The Wengerbabies]

Why has the title been changed?

The perps were Muslims and the victim was a serving soldier.

:rose:

[Xhaka Can’t]

You know why. Your title was specifically crafted to offend and label an entire section of society.

Now, a warning - my bullshit tolerance is pretty fucking low today.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Absolutely sickened by this. The soldier was a young lad and was out raising money for help for heroes. :(


The problem is that I don't know how you can stop this completely short of banishing every single Muslim in the country. Judging by the description of the attack it seems like it was completely spontaneous and random.

Islam really needs to get a grip on the extremism it generates - no other religion comes close to inciting the same level of violence against other faiths or beliefs.

[The Wengerbabies]

Maybe the an man deserved it.

What could he have possibly done to deserve it?

As TEG says he was out raising money for Help the Heroes. Is that a beheading offence iyo?

Is that what your religion teaches you?

[The Wengerbabies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lDtL0TKjw3w

Religion of Peace :rolleyes:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Yay. Religion.

This is always interesting and fun.

[Marc Overmars]

So this is what everyone has changed their Facebook status for.

[Xhaka Can’t]

An extremist nutjob is an extremist nutjob regardless of religion/non religion or belief.

If you label an entire section of society based upon the actions of sick extremist nutjobs, then it says far more about you than those you seek to demonise.

[Cripps_orig]

What could he have possibly done to deserve it?

As TEG says he was out raising money for Help the Heroes. Is that a beheading offence iyo?

Is that what your religion teaches you?
Tbf it's the first time I've heard of it.

Know nothing about it apart from what I've read n this thread and you're on the WUM about something like this is out of order.

Every religion has their fair share of ****s. We are no different.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

True GB. It's wrong to demonise an entire section of society and make blanket sweeping statements.

However there are a lot more extremist nutjobs from certain faiths then there are from others. That's a fact. We shouldn't be afraid to investigate and discuss why certain faiths incite more extremism then others, purely to try and minimise it from occurring.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Have to say though, rolling news channels are only ever good when there is no news.

As soon as something actually happens they all just panic and find ways not to directly quote but to always reference twitter.

And that is from someone with "Breaking News" still stamped onto my TV.... it's covering Dara O Briain's forehead right now.

[Grebbo]

Somebody gets stabbed to death in London, not exactly earth shattering news.

London is a fucking toilet unless you're rich. Don't know why any non rich person chooses to live there tbh.

[PGFC]

I'm more horrified by the News being full of the cunt holding a meat cleaver with bloodied hands, not sure if the boys family really need to see that, I'm only sorry the ARU didn't do a proper job on them both.

[Munchies]

Horrible news, and the images were pretty bad.

You'll always get shit like this, even if you wore a Gooner shirt and a fucked in the head Spud saw you, he'd swing at you. Know this is completely different, but its the state we're in now. People will attack you for any reason.

[GP]

Have no fear, the cavalry has arrived...

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae331/mattlamb1982/edl_zps18cafe32.jpg

[Marc Overmars]

Some bloke filmed the ****, bloody hands and all.

Absolutely disgusting.

[Injury Time]

Some bloke filmed the ****, bloody hands and all.

Absolutely disgusting.
Guy with knives told the person to film him, I'm sure you would have said no.

[Marc Overmars]

Oh I didn't mean anything against the guy who filmed it, just sickening the scumbag wanted to broadcast what he did even more.

[milla]

Oh I didn't mean anything against the guy who filmed it, just sickening the scumbag wanted to broadcast what he did even more.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22633922

They wanted to get caught, in fact they asked the civilians to call the police. :coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

True GB. It's wrong to demonise an entire section of society and make blanket sweeping statements.

However there are a lot more extremist nutjobs from certain faiths then there are from others. That's a fact. We shouldn't be afraid to investigate and discuss why certain faiths incite more extremism then others, purely to try and minimise it from occurring.

I don't know if it is fact, it could be, or it could be perception. There are an awful lot of religious nutjobs on the Christian right - look at the US for example. In the aftermath of the Boston Marathon there were fears that ths could have been the work of one of those nuts.

Some people are merely wired to be nutjobs, extremists and/or just plain sick, sadistic and murderous and use Religion or some other cause to somehow validate their actions.

On this particular murder - I'm with Perry, I wish the horrific vermin met their end and I was disgusted by what I saw.

[GP]

I'm goin on a march, cos I want Britian to be back British.

[GP]

Apparently the EDL are fighting with police in Woolwich

:rolleyes:

[Marc Overmars]

Muslamic rake hands.

[Power n Glory]

Define British?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I don't think it's just a perception GB. For example, I could never see another religious group reacting the same way as muslims did as a result of the Danish cartoons and the YouTube film last year. It was ridiculous really, a couple of trolls do some trolling and an entire religion is enough sufficient uproar for extremists to commit criminal damage, assault and even murder.


Define British?

Anyone who's lived permanently in Britain legally for a lengthy period of time that considers themselves British.

[The Wengerbabies]

I don't know if it is fact, it could be, or it could be perception. There are an awful lot of religious nutjobs on the Christian right - look at the US for example. In the aftermath of the Boston Marathon there were fears that ths could have been the work of one of those nuts.

Some people are merely wired to be nutjobs, extremists and/or just plain sick, sadistic and murderous and use Religion or some other cause to somehow validate their actions.

On this particular murder - I'm with Perry, I wish the horrific vermin met their end and I was disgusted by what I saw.

I think most people suspected that the Boston bombings were Islamic in motive from the outset, the 'fear' that its could have been Christian nutjobs was just the left wing apologists in denial.

[The Wengerbabies]

Define British?

This is the thing the black guy on camera sounds like your typical lower class black British youth, yet he refers to 'your government' etc. and talks about similar atrocities happening all the time on 'our land' there is a fucked up problem with a significant minority of Muslims that, despite being British to all intents and purposes, believe they are not.

I'll never understand why people can't just live and let live.

Religion breeds nothing but hate.

[Letters]

Daily Mail should be good today :popcorn:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think most people suspected that the Boston bombings were Islamic in motive from the outset, the 'fear' that its could have been Christian nutjobs was just the left wing apologists in denial.

Nope, it was based on the assessment made in the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma bombing.

[Nayan]

Somebody gets stabbed to death in London, not exactly earth shattering news.

London is a fucking toilet unless you're rich. Don't know why any non rich person chooses to live there tbh.

He wasnt just stabbed. He was allegedly run over by a car, hacked to death and decapitated by two men shouting allahuakbar and then telling anyone with a camera he had to die in the name of their beliefs / grievances

[Nayan]

Define British?

Brit•ish (ˈbrɪt ɪʃ)

adj.
1. of or pertaining to Great Britain or its inhabitants.
2. of or pertaining to the island of Britain and its inhabitants, esp. before the division of the island into the principalities of England, Wales, and Scotland in the Middle Ages.
n.
3. (used with a pl. v.)
a. the inhabitants of Great Britain, or natives of Great Britain living elsewhere; Britons.
b. the Celtic-speaking inhabitants of Britain before the Germanic invasions of the 5th century a.d.
[before 900; Middle English Brittische, Old English Bryttisc, derivative of Brytt(as) Britons]

[Nayan]

Oh I didn't mean anything against the guy who filmed it, just sickening the scumbag wanted to broadcast what he did even more.

Suppose you are approached by a crazed blood soaked machete wielding maniac who has just killed. Do you
(a) run
(b) attack him on the grounds that your life is threatened
(c) whip out your iphone and start filming

[GP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BK7sQpuCEAAEFc1.jpg

[Power n Glory]

This is the thing the black guy on camera sounds like your typical lower class black British youth, yet he refers to 'your government' etc. and talks about similar atrocities happening all the time on 'our land' there is a fucked up problem with a significant minority of Muslims that, despite being British to all intents and purposes, believe they are not.

I'll never understand why people can't just live and let live.

Religion breeds nothing but hate.

The ‘our land’ comment was just ridiculous. The guy is lost in many ways.

But I disagree with the idea that religion breeds hate. Remove religion and you’d have people clashing over politics, class and race. Shit..we’ve seen extreme animal activists! We’d probably get wars over bloody football when all said and done. It’s a human thing and it’s that ridiculous. Prone to push the self-destruct button all the time. We’ll never get along.

[Power n Glory]

Suppose you are approached by a crazed blood soaked machete wielding maniac who has just killed. Do you
(a) run
(b) attack him on the grounds that your life is threatened
(c) whip out your iphone and start filming

Reminds me of Kick-Ass.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The ‘our land’ comment was just ridiculous. The guy is lost in many ways.

But I disagree with the idea that religion breeds hate. Remove religion and you’d have people clashing over politics, class and race. Shit..we’ve seen extreme animal activists! We’d probably get wars over bloody football when all said and done. It’s a human thing and it’s that ridiculous. Prone to push the self-destruct button all the time. We’ll never get along.

I think religion breeds differences that could lead to hate in the case of literal lunatics. But with these people, if it wasn't religion, it would be something else. Which I guess is the point you're making.

[Power n Glory]

I think religion breeds differences that could lead to hate in the case of literal lunatics. But with these people, if it wasn't religion, it would be something else. Which I guess is the point you're making.

Yes indeed. There will always be factions at war with each other. It stems beyond religion.

[server too busy!]

I'm fairly certain at some point the guy says, bring our troops back from war....

So he goes from our land, your government....to our troops in thick London accent

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Some people on twitter have been ranting against EDF Energy :haha:

[Nayan]

The ‘our land’ comment was just ridiculous. The guy is lost in many ways.

But I disagree with the idea that religion breeds hate. Remove religion and you’d have people clashing over politics, class and race. Shit..we’ve seen extreme animal activists! We’d probably get wars over bloody football when all said and done. It’s a human thing and it’s that ridiculous. Prone to push the self-destruct button all the time. We’ll never get along.

itys a good point. Underpriveledged parts of society feel disenfranchised and are ripe for some form of radicalisation. These days its darkies. In the 70s/80s it was (white) good honest english lads using darkies as a visible target

[Nayan]

Some people on twitter have been ranting against EDF Energy :haha:

Reminds me of Spurs fans abusing Chris Hoy

[GP]

Some people on twitter have been ranting against EDF Energy :haha:

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/773595390.jpg?1369303947

[Power n Glory]

itys a good point. Underpriveledged parts of society feel disenfranchised and are ripe for some form of radicalisation. These days its darkies. In the 70s/80s it was (white) good honest english lads using darkies as a visible target

Yep, you're right about the underprivileged parts of society. We're seeing it on both sides. The EDL aren't a religious group but if it goes unchecked, I have no doubts that things will turn nasty. Remember the Brixton nail bomb attack? If things keep going this way we're going to see some real ugly shit. This time last year we were all preparing for the Olympics, the Royal Wedding and Queen's Jubilee. Multicultural Briton was being celebrated. Seems like that will all go up in flames if not careful.

[Cripps_orig]

What royal wedding?

[Xhaka Can’t]

The midget king of GW's.

[Nayan]

Yep, you're right about the underprivileged parts of society. We're seeing it on both sides. The EDL aren't a religious group but if it goes unchecked, I have no doubts that things will turn nasty. Remember the Brixton nail bomb attack? If things keep going this way we're going to see some real ugly shit. This time last year we were all preparing for the Olympics, the Royal Wedding and Queen's Jubilee. Multicultural Briton was being celebrated. Seems like that will all go up in flames if not careful.

we miss a trick by not having a 'patriotic' ideology to compete with radicalism. The US by comparison maange not to disparage flagwavers to the3 same extent.
I have some mates who were recently naturalised UK citizens. Everything they had to cram about propertion from this country or that country or whatever was comedy. COmapre that to US kids doing pilgrim fathers, Gettysburg address or Paul Revere in grade school

[Power n Glory]

we miss a trick by not having a 'patriotic' ideology to compete with radicalism. The US by comparison maange not to disparage flagwavers to the3 same extent.
I have some mates who were recently naturalised UK citizens. Everything they had to cram about propertion from this country or that country or whatever was comedy. COmapre that to US kids doing pilgrim fathers, Gettysburg address or Paul Revere in grade school

The US is built on immigration and they’ve really had to instil some sort of national pride to hold things together. It’s far from perfect but they make sure the people are indoctrinated with US ideology, history and tradition early. Regardless of the difference between the communities and cultures, most would still identify themselves with the US in some way and they’re proud of it. It’s funny because they have more seriously underprivileged people on the fringes of society there. It’s not the same in Britain but Britain is nowhere near as bad as other European countries.

I think back to Assou-Ekotto’s interview where he mentioned the segregation in France and how all the players still refer to their parents countries as their homeland even when born in France. He mentioned how the English players like Defoe had a different mentality and identified more with Britain. It’s not all bad and there has been progress but you have to worry when people say ‘we want our Britain back’. You also have to worry that the idiot on the tape was probably referring to ‘land’ he’s never stepped foot on.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

The midget king of GW's.

Had no idea that bloke was Spanish.

[Grebbo]

Can someone correct the spelling in the thread title cos it's bugging me. Thanks

[Cripps_orig]

Anyone got a link to what this dude is saying preferably without the newscaster talking over it meaning we can't hear a word he says?

[Grebbo]

Yeah about half way down this page: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329470/Michael-Adebolajo-British-born-suspect-obsessed-radical-Islam-schoolboy.html

[Cripps_orig]

That 5 second clip where he makes no mention of Islam and in fact blames the government?

[Grebbo]

Yeah I think that's all there is

[Grebbo]

Anyway I don't know what all the fuss is about him being Muslim - so what?

I read some English guy slit his kids throats the other day - Does that make all English fathers child killers?

People are just dumb. Governments, general public, religion - all shit.

[Cripps_orig]

Pretty much

And tbh he does apologise to the women. Very sweet of him.

Doubt this has f all to do with Islam. Yet another reason to bash Islam by the racists.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

@ Cripps - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4938719/muslim-fanatics-evil-rant-after-beheading-soldier.html

"By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah"


@ Grebbo - The difference is this they are committing these acts of extremism in the name of Islam. That guy didn't slit his kids throats because he was English.

[Nayan]

Pretty much

And tbh he does apologise to the women. Very sweet of him.

Doubt this has f all to do with Islam. Yet another reason to bash Islam by the racists.

I like that he apologised to women for his c'untish behaviour and then a woman shot him

[Cripps_orig]

That's the video I wanted to see.

Fair enough. The guys obviously a maniac. No way does Islam condone this or any violence.

As I said before, all religions have their ****s.

[Marc Overmars]

It's a shame religion has given these disturbed people a platform to do what they do. I know a couple of muslim lads and it's a shame they have to live with the potential stigma to come from events like this as their religion has been disgraced by lowlife scum.

[Nayan]

That's the video I wanted to see.

Fair enough. The guys obviously a maniac. No way does Islam condone this or any violence.

As I said before, all religions have their ****s.

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 9:5]

I gather this is often taken out of context by critics of the religion, referring as it does to a particular war alluded to in the scripture. Conversely such passages are just as likely to be taken to support the agendas of extremists

[PGFC]

I like that he apologised to women for his c'untish behaviour and then a woman shot him

That got a wry grin from me too.

[Cripps_orig]

He might be right in what he's saying with the British soldiers killing people for no reason in Islamic countries but what he did was horrifically wrong and that is what people will focus on and rightly so.

To make his point about the soldiers he should've as a great man once said

"Call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard and hit it fast with a major - and I mean major - leaflet campaign."

[The Emirates Gallactico]

That's the video I wanted to see.

Fair enough. The guys obviously a maniac. No way does Islam condone this or any violence.

As I said before, all religions have their ****s.

You're right in saying every religion has their share of nutters. However as I've said before Islam generates a much rather larger percentage of nutters that are prepared to commit barbaric acts in the name of it, than any other religion or affiliation.

Whilst it's still a minority and the ones (like the ones yesterday) prepared to act on them even smaller, the percentage of Muslims, in particular youth, holding radical or questionable beliefs is alarming and a cause for concern.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/2461830/Killing-for-religion-is-justified-say-third-of-Muslim-students.html



40 per cent support the introduction of sharia into British law for Muslims

a third back the notion of a worldwide Islamic caliphate (state) based on sharia law

40 per feel it is unacceptable for Muslim men and women to mix freely

24 per cent do not think men and women are equal in the eyes of Allah

a quarter have little or no respect for homosexuals.


http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/



These results are from Muslims polled (16 – 24) for Policy Exchange:
-37 percent of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain.
-36 percent of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed.
-13 percent of young British Muslims said they “admired” Al Qaeda.


There was quite a good debate on LBC the past hour about the causes for radicalisation and I don't think anyone really came up with a valid reason for it.



We can't move forward into solving this issue unless we first accept that there is a problem. I don't profess to know enough about Islam to come up with a correct reason as to explain this correlation myself but it needs to studied and steps taken to curb it otherwise we'll just keep on seeing these type of attacks and as a consequence more racial disharmony for the likes of the EDL and BNP to exploit.

[Grebbo]

@ Grebbo - The difference is this they are committing these acts of extremism in the name of Islam. That guy didn't slit his kids throats because he was English.

Yeah but so what? If I went around killing Spurs fans in the name of Arsenal it wouldn't make Arsenal and it's fans a bunch of nutters.

I don't even know why the Government is calling this terrorism. It's just a couple of loons stabbing people - there's plenty of them out there. The media and politicians love this, gets everyone worked up into a frenzy and Cameron can start looking tough. He'll start developing the 'Tony Blair Hard Man Walk' soon where he puffs his chest out and looks like a complete wanker whilst talking tough.

[Xhaka Can’t]

@ Cripps - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4938719/muslim-fanatics-evil-rant-after-beheading-soldier.html

"By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah"


@ Grebbo - The difference is this they are committing these acts of extremism in the name of Islam. That guy didn't slit his kids throats because he was English.

No, but the same generalisations can be made.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Define British?

Bradford.

[milla]

@ Cripps - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4938719/muslim-fanatics-evil-rant-after-beheading-soldier.html

"By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah"


@ Grebbo - The difference is this they are committing these acts of extremism in the name of Islam. That guy didn't slit his kids throats because he was English.

He used religion to justify his act but religion wasn't his motivation.

He made it very clear his motivation was "our troops presence and involvement in their countries" be it asia or africa. Stop looking at skin colour, race or religion and start looking at their motivation, that's how you win the war. This was exactly how the Soviet lost the war with the Afghan in 80's. They failed to see the Afghans beyond the capitalist peasant in a war against communism. :coffee:

[milla]

Yeah but so what? If I went around killing Spurs fans in the name of Arsenal it wouldn't make Arsenal and it's fans a bunch of nutters.

I don't even know why the Government is calling this terrorism. It's just a couple of loons stabbing people - there's plenty of them out there. The media and politicians love this, gets everyone worked up into a frenzy and Cameron can start looking tough. He'll start developing the 'Tony Blair Hard Man Walk' soon where he puffs his chest out and looks like a complete wanker whilst talking tough.

Tis :gp:

Get our troops out of foreign countries, give them a good pay rise and get them to men our streets and borders. No more money making wars for politicians and greedy capitalist. :coffee:

[milla]

You're right in saying every religion has their share of nutters. However as I've said before Islam generates a much rather larger percentage of nutters that are prepared to commit barbaric acts in the name of it, than any other religion or affiliation.

Whilst it's still a minority and the ones (like the ones yesterday) prepared to act on them even smaller, the percentage of Muslims, in particular youth, holding radical or questionable beliefs is alarming and a cause for concern.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/2461830/Killing-for-religion-is-justified-say-third-of-Muslim-students.html



http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/



There was quite a good debate on LBC the past hour about the causes for radicalisation and I don't think anyone really came up with a valid reason for it.



We can't move forward into solving this issue unless we first accept that there is a problem. I don't profess to know enough about Islam to come up with a correct reason as to explain this correlation myself but it needs to studied and steps taken to curb it otherwise we'll just keep on seeing these type of attacks and as a consequence more racial disharmony for the likes of the EDL and BNP to exploit.

Killing is the same,,, however you call it. Humanity has killed more in the name of justice, democracy, communism, nationalism, royalty etc. It's a good business, after communist collapsed the world need an enemy and Islam is the easiest target. Once Iraqi, Afgans, Pakistani were hailed heroes on BBC, CNN etc.. Now they just flipped the coin, it is just a good business. :coffee:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yeah but so what? If I went around killing Spurs fans in the name of Arsenal it wouldn't make Arsenal and it's fans a bunch of nutters.

I don't even know why the Government is calling this terrorism. It's just a couple of loons stabbing people - there's plenty of them out there. The media and politicians love this, gets everyone worked up into a frenzy and Cameron can start looking tough. He'll start developing the 'Tony Blair Hard Man Walk' soon where he puffs his chest out and looks like a complete wanker whilst talking tough.

i can see why it is being labelled a terrorist attack but im with you, i dont think it is one. there have been some attacks in the last few years, be it murders or brutal beatings by english people on Muslims, are these not terrorist acts to? Yet the fuss over these are never as much as we see today, yet there is no difference. Both victims are english, and the attackers are as bad as each other. There is no murder worse then another murder, its a loss of life and thats as bad as it gets.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

He used religion to justify his act but religion wasn't his motivation.

He made it very clear his motivation was "our troops presence and involvement in their countries" be it asia or africa. Stop looking at skin colour, race or religion and start looking at their motivation, that's how you win the war. This was exactly how the Soviet lost the war with the Afghan in 80's. They failed to see the Afghans beyond the capitalist peasant in a war against communism. :coffee:

afghans :bow:

amazing dogs :bow:

[PGFC]

i can see why it is being labelled a terrorist attack but im with you, i dont think it is one. there have been some attacks in the last few years, be it murders or brutal beatings by english people on Muslims, are these not terrorist acts to? Yet the fuss over these are never as much as we see today, yet there is no difference. Both victims are english, and the attackers are as bad as each other. There is no murder worse then another murder, its a loss of life and thats as bad as it gets.

Of course it was a terrorist attack and quite an insidious, clever one, designed to take our troops out of the comfort zone of being 'at home' it's probably a staple of some terrorist training bible, as developed and widely practiced by those masters of the art the IRA, targetting troops off duty and in normally 'safe' environments, if you subsequently change your behaviour because of these low-level attacks then you've already allowed the terrorists a little victory, I have a terrible feeling this is only the beginning of more madness.

[PGFC]

Tis :gp:

Get our troops out of foreign countries, give them a good pay rise and get them to men our streets and borders. No more money making wars for politicians and greedy capitalist. :coffee:

I agree, we should remove our troops from foreign lands, if you can live with the humanitarian catastrophes that would ensue in the vacuum that's left, so can I.

[Thierrymon]

One friend told The Telegraph: "Michael (one of the culprits) was into his football and was a Spurs supporter. All his friends were white. He was just a normal lad but as he got older he started to go off the rails.

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/woolwich-attack-what-turned-michael-adebolajo-bad/story-fndir2ev-1226649902616

Well that explains it.

[Nayan]

There is no murder worse then another murder, its a loss of life and thats as bad as it gets.

Not technically true where for example you have first and second degree murder (even if we dont in this country).
Even then if oyu kill someone while making it clear you hate his race or are doing it not to kill him personally but due to some ideology or belief you ahve then that does indeed go beyond 'simply' murdering someone, and towards hate crime etc.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Yeah but so what? If I went around killing Spurs fans in the name of Arsenal it wouldn't make Arsenal and it's fans a bunch of nutters.

I don't even know why the Government is calling this terrorism. It's just a couple of loons stabbing people - there's plenty of them out there. The media and politicians love this, gets everyone worked up into a frenzy and Cameron can start looking tough. He'll start developing the 'Tony Blair Hard Man Walk' soon where he puffs his chest out and looks like a complete wanker whilst talking tough.

If this was an isolated incident then I would agree.

However this is just one out of many incidents the past 15 or so years where Islam has been used as a trigger or a catalyst for violent barbaric events to occur in it's name around the world. Eventually you can't keep burying in your head in the sand and pretend that there's no connection.

Also consider the polls that I've posted out. You have shockingly high numbers of young muslims holding radical beliefs, 36% believe that apostates should be killed ffs.


I agree about Cameron, gives him a chance to look all PM'ly and avoid talking about the fact we've barely just avoided entering a triple dip recession.


Edit - I was looking at that stat in more detail,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#International_law

Check out the countries that where it is illegal and punishable by death to give up your religion. Spot the connection? :rolleyes:

[Cripps_orig]

What's an apostate?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

What's an apostate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy :good:


Someone who gives up their religion basically. Either rejects religion entirely or goes on to join another religion.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Refuse to call this an act of terrorism, just a couple of maladjusted half heads acting out their sick fantasies. And screaming "alahuackbar" does not give it any greater significance. The unfortunate victim just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it can be called nothing more than senseless butchering. And a half rambled mission statement does nothing more to convince me. Calling a Cobra meeting about it, and the media showing the film footage gives these atavistic sociopaths exactly what they wanted.....recognition.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If this was an isolated incident then I would agree.

However this is just one out of many incidents the past 15 or so years where Islam has been used as a trigger or a catalyst for violent barbaric events to occur in it's name around the world. Eventually you can't keep burying in your head in the sand and pretend that there's no connection.

Also consider the polls that I've posted out. You have shockingly high numbers of young muslims holding radical beliefs, 36% believe that apostates should be killed ffs.


I agree about Cameron, gives him a chance to look all PM'ly and avoid talking about the fact we've barely just avoided entering a triple dip recession.


Edit - I was looking at that stat in more detail,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#International_law

Check out the countries that where it is illegal and punishable by death to give up your religion. Spot the connection? :rolleyes:

Public Polling suggests that a majority of the British people favour the reinstatement of the death penalty and a withdrawal from the EU, so all that proves is that people are generally stupid.

[Grebbo]

If this was an isolated incident then I would agree.

However this is just one out of many incidents the past 15 or so years where Islam has been used as a trigger or a catalyst for violent barbaric events to occur in it's name around the world. Eventually you can't keep burying in your head in the sand and pretend that there's no connection.

Also consider the polls that I've posted out. You have shockingly high numbers of young muslims holding radical beliefs, 36% believe that apostates should be killed ffs.


I agree about Cameron, gives him a chance to look all PM'ly and avoid talking about the fact we've barely just avoided entering a triple dip recession.


Edit - I was looking at that stat in more detail,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#International_law

Check out the countries that where it is illegal and punishable by death to give up your religion. Spot the connection? :rolleyes:

I don't think Islam is the problem more to do with the fact that many countries where Islam is the major religion are backwards countries with little education.

Let's be honest, all religion is bullshit. No educated person can believe in that nonsense.

[Grebbo]

Public Polling suggests that a majority of the British people favour the reinstatement of the death penalty and a withdrawal from the EU, so all that proves is that people are generally stupid.

I don't see any problem with the death penalty tbh. Providing the person you're killing is 100% guilty. That's the difficult bit. Jury's are made up of the general public who we all know are absolute fuckwits so I wouldn't want my life in their hands. Judges are even worse.

As for the EU, all I hear is shite from people with bias. You need an independent review of the EU and whether it's worth it. My guess is it probably isn't worth us being in the EU tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy :good:


Someone who gives up their religion basically. Either rejects religion entirely or goes on to join another religion.

Like this dude who just killed this other dude? He should be killed tbh.

[Nayan]

What's an apostate?

its a gland in your arse

[Marc Overmars]

My brother just text me that a mosque in MK has been petrol bombed. :doh:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Islamic Centre I think, well according to this.

http://www.heart.co.uk/miltonkeynes/news/local/petrol-bomb-thrown-islamic-centre/

[Power n Glory]

Refuse to call this an act of terrorism, just a couple of maladjusted half heads acting out their sick fantasies. And screaming "alahuackbar" does not give it any greater significance. The unfortunate victim just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it can be called nothing more than senseless butchering. And a half rambled mission statement does nothing more to convince me. Calling a Cobra meeting about it, and the media showing the film footage gives these atavistic sociopaths exactly what they wanted.....recognition.

Why not? It wasn’t random. They targeted a soldier and didn’t touch anyone else. Does the body count have to be higher or involve explosives to be considered a terrorist act? They got the publicity from all the cameras to make a statement, had a specific target and could have been stalking him for days before going for him. Who knows. Why is this different to the beheading of captured soliders/journos that were circulating years ago?

[Niall_Quinn]

Refuse to call this an act of terrorism, just a couple of maladjusted half heads acting out their sick fantasies. And screaming "alahuackbar" does not give it any greater significance. The unfortunate victim just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it can be called nothing more than senseless butchering. And a half rambled mission statement does nothing more to convince me. Calling a Cobra meeting about it, and the media showing the film footage gives these atavistic sociopaths exactly what they wanted.....recognition.

Agree with all that. Hope people see it that way rather than falling back on government hysteria. Crimes go on all over the world every day. The odd crimes get highlighted. The routine crimes (like 30,000 dying from lack of clean water) get ignored. When this reverses we will have taken a giant stride forwards as a species.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why not? It wasn’t random. They targeted a soldier and didn’t touch anyone else. Does the body count have to be higher or involve explosives to be considered a terrorist act? They got the publicity from all the cameras to make a statement, had a specific target and could have been stalking him for days before going for him. Who knows. Why is this different to the beheading of captured soliders/journos that were circulating years ago?

It isn't different. Both are PR crimes. People must then decide if they want to buy into it. It's a big world. Much bigger than the cries of attention seekers no matter how foul their methods. If we get hijacked by the infinitesimal minority then the majority suffer. Right? The majority could make this vanishingly small minority disappear if we put our minds to it. But that would involve thought and genuine humanity, things very few of us are prepared to invest in. It's easier to let propagandists and extremists do our thinking for us. I don't want to be holier than thou but it's long past time we woke the fuck up. I'll spare you the 10K word essay but if we overreact to crimes like this then beg to lose everything.

[Power n Glory]

It isn't different. Both are PR crimes. People must then decide if they want to buy into it. It's a big world. Much bigger than the cries of attention seekers no matter how foul their methods. If we get hijacked by the infinitesimal minority then the majority suffer. Right? The majority could make this vanishingly small minority disappear if we put our minds to it. But that would involve thought and genuine humanity, things very few of us are prepared to invest in. It's easier to let propagandists and extremists do our thinking for us. I don't want to be holier than thou but it's long past time we woke the fuck up. I'll spare you the 10K word essay but if we overreact to crimes like this then beg to lose everything.

Buy into what? That’s a totally different argument. Media sensationalism and government hysteria is one thing but I don’t see how this can be disassociated from the jihadist movement we’ve seen since 9/11, which is why I say it’s no different. It’s not a case of two loons chopping a random bloke up and the media desperately trying to link it to a terrorist movement. I don’t think you’re on the same page with what Herb is saying.

Also, it’s totally naïve and a bit disrespectful to suggest all this can be ignored. The whole point of terrorism is to make it so it can’t be ignored. Not getting roped into the propaganda and hate is one thing but sticking your head in the sand won’t fix this. Not when you have extremists bent on getting attention.

[Niall_Quinn]

Buy into what? That’s a totally different argument. Media sensationalism and government hysteria is one thing but I don’t see how this can be disassociated from the jihadist movement we’ve seen since 9/11, which is why I say it’s no different. It’s not a case of two loons chopping a random bloke up and the media desperately trying to link it to a terrorist movement. I don’t think you’re on the same page with what Herb is saying.

Also, it’s totally naïve and a bit disrespectful to suggest all this can be ignored. The whole point of terrorism is to make it so it can’t be ignored. Not getting roped into the propaganda and hate is one thing but sticking your head in the sand won’t fix this. Not when you have extremists bent on getting attention.

Sigh.

Didn't say it should be ignored. As for respect. I have none for anyone except my own. That's because I'm honest when nobody else is. But in the end we are all the same. Crocodile tears. You'll row it back for respectability but I'm right nonetheless.

[Power n Glory]

Sigh.

Didn't say it should be ignored. As for respect. I have none for anyone except my own. That's because I'm honest when nobody else is. But in the end we are all the same. Crocodile tears. You'll row it back for respectability but I'm right nonetheless.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard.

Why is it in every topic corporate/capitalist corruption seeps into every argument? Can't that be left to side for this matter?


The odd crimes get highlighted. The routine crimes (like 30,000 dying from lack of clean water) get ignored.

I mean come on. How is this supposed to be dealt with if it’s treated as just the odd crime. Motive comes into and then it gets linked to the wider argument about extremists and terrorism.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's the motive for letting 30,000 people die for lack of drink of water? Who are the major terrorists and who is the side show? My advice, don't get distracted.

[Nayan]

Refuse to call this an act of terrorism, just a couple of maladjusted half heads acting out their sick fantasies. And screaming "alahuackbar" does not give it any greater significance. The unfortunate victim just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it can be called nothing more than senseless butchering. And a half rambled mission statement does nothing more to convince me. Calling a Cobra meeting about it, and the media showing the film footage gives these atavistic sociopaths exactly what they wanted.....recognition.


terrorism (ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm)

— n
1. systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve some goal
2. the act of terrorizing
3. the state of being terrorized

-he clashed with police a few years back holding a placard saying 'behead hose who insult islam' or some such.
-Others (with islamist tendencies) have since been arrested here for trying to kidnap and behead a soldier.
-he just killed and beheaded a soldier.

even if you think these perps were disparate lone wolves there is enough of a common thread here (anjem choudary and al muhajiroun I think) to call this terrorism. the fact it doesnt look like a well funded/run camp in northern pakistan or some such place is irrelevant

[Power n Glory]

What's the motive for letting 30,000 people die for lack of drink of water? Who are the major terrorists and who is the side show? My advice, don't get distracted.

Distracted by what exactly? Do you think this is some eloborate smokescreen? Do you think it's impossible for people to comprehend two very different atrocities at the same time? It's a narrow minded argument.

To draw things back in line, talk of 'real terrorists' and the evils of the West/capitalism, refusal to condemn certain actions is just a slippery slope to extremism.

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2316958/Small-Heath-stabbing-Birmingham-pensioner-Mohammed-Saleem-Chaudry-killed-way-evening-prayers.html

Can we change the thread title to sick murders in woolwich and Birmingham.

Or will this racist attack not be talked about by the news cos the victim wasn't English?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I already changed the name of the thread from the original inflammatory BS.

But you have a point, although in fairness the very public nature of what happened in Woolwich and it being captured on film plays a part on why that is being discussed. And not just in this country - a Calgary Flames forum I use has over 300 posts on this topic.

[Cripps_orig]

Both are horrific and hopefully the ****s who did them rot for the rest of their pathetic lives.

Utterly pointless killings

[Niall_Quinn]

Distracted by what exactly? Do you think this is some eloborate smokescreen? Do you think it's impossible for people to comprehend two very different atrocities at the same time? It's a narrow minded argument.

To draw things back in line, talk of 'real terrorists' and the evils of the West/capitalism, refusal to condemn certain actions is just a slippery slope to extremism.

I mean don't focus all your energy in the direction the media would want. Which is just advice. No, I would hope it's not impossible to comprehend two different atrocities. Sadly it's a slim hope. The smokescreen thing, obviously yes. Not from the perps' point of view but certainly in terms of how the media paints terrorism. Not a smokescreen in its own right, just a bit more smoke for the already thick blanket.

Amazing really, every time I point beyond the isolated incident to the wider circus of carnage people get offended. Yes but... Yes but apart from THAT, Mrs Lincoln - how was the play?

I didn't refuse to condemn anything, you're doing that thing again, putting words in people's mouths in an attempt to own both side of the conversation.

[Power n Glory]

I mean don't focus all your energy in the direction the media would want. Which is just advice. No, I would hope it's not impossible to comprehend two different atrocities. Sadly it's a slim hope. The smokescreen thing, obviously yes. Not from the perps' point of view but certainly in terms of how the media paints terrorism. Not a smokescreen in its own right, just a bit more smoke for the already thick blanket.

Amazing really, every time I point beyond the isolated incident to the wider circus of carnage people get offended. Yes but... Yes but apart from THAT, Mrs Lincoln - how was the play?

I didn't refuse to condemn anything, you're doing that thing again, putting words in people's mouths in an attempt to own both side of the conversation.

What agenda do you think is being pushed by the mainstream media? Have you checked out Twitter, Facebook or other forums like this? Opinions are wide and vast so far. Old days of a few channels trying to ram a message down our throat are long gone and after the Iraq fiasco, more people are skeptical of traditional news and rely upon Twitter, Youtube and other places to new media spots for information.

How has the media attempted to paint this picture of terrorism? What's the agenda? Explain without me having to jump to conclusions.

'Pointing to the wider circle of carnage' is just as annoying as a guy that keeps referring to the starving millions in Africa every time somebody says they're hungry! It's like you have a one track mind and oblivious to the fact that people are also aware of the wider issue but we're discussing something that's still significant and relevant.

I'm not putting words into your mouth at all. You're just not doing a good job of explaining what it is you're saying.


Didn't say it should be ignored. As for respect. I have none for anyone except my own. That's because I'm honest when nobody else is. But in the end we are all the same. Crocodile tears. You'll row it back for respectability but I'm right nonetheless.


You can't talk to me about thousands of people dying and then bat that sort of line out the park. If you only respect yourself then why do you even give a fuck about the thousands dying in distant land somewhere?

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't know if you'll catch this but there's a brilliant documentary on the History Channel right now about Nazi cultism and propaganda. That says it much better than I can. It translates seamlessly into the modern world.