Former Players Views

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I do not buy into this crap that we can't compete for the title. Yes, the undesirables over @ Stamford Bridge and Etihad have been splurging shit loads of cash, but it's not like they are miles ahead, well at least not on point standings. Our faltering is our own doing as we drop too many points against pub teams, latest being Norwich who probably would have had a winless season hadn't we felt so charitable on the day.

The way we handle players contracts, off loading of our better players while insufficiently replacing them, our manager's inability to make a game winning substitution (in fact, changes are predetermined long before kick off and not based on the situation we find ourselves in during a game), failure to address weak areas in the squad, insistence on one formation and game plan regardless of opponent, persisting with dross players who sometimes are no way at fault as they are being played out of position....the list goes on.... All these point to a common problem, a manager so set in his arrogant and deluded way of doing things, so much so that the game seems to have evolved beyond his scope.

I know some folks on here and elsewhere still have some kind of sentimental attachment to AW. After all, Arsene 'knew' best, but there comes a time when he'll have to leave (should have happened already tbh) and.... yes you guessed correctly, be replaced by another manager. Are we to believe that his replacement won't be able to use the same resources now available to him to win the league? Or at the very least be competitive? Is there no other manager out there - a Mourinho perhaps - who can put together a decent enough squad, capable of derailing the cash trains of City and Chavs even for a season whilst not breaking the bank?

[Syn]

That's true, but it's unfair on Wenger, IMO, to suggest he's just happy to pick up the money and doesn't love the club or care how we do

You know I'm not an Internet Twat (just a regular one), but even I'm starting to question whether Wenger really does care about the club. I still can't believe how Wenger can sanction that Van Persie sale. It's humiliating and Wenger is willing to go along with anything so long as the board stuff enough cash in his mouth. That's what I believe.

[Kano]

I think you're more likely to be an Internet Twat if you bury your head in the sand about what is happening and how it is being thrown in our faces every season now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You know I'm not an Internet Twat (just a regular one), but even I'm starting to question whether Wenger really does care about the club. I still can't believe how Wenger can sanction that Van Persie sale. It's humiliating and Wenger is willing to go along with anything so long as the board stuff enough cash in his mouth. That's what I believe.

He wanted to go if not to Utd he'd have gone somewhere else. Like Fergie said he wanted to go there. End of the day the club messed up not giving him a new deal sooner, but had they done that, we have called Wenger mad for keep on paying for another crook.

[LDG]

I think you're more likely to be an Internet Twat if you bury your head in the sand about what is happening and how it is being thrown in our faces every season now.


Can you be a twat on the internet, and not be a twat in real life. It is possible.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I would suspect that a top Manager that was not at one.with the Board would have walked over that transfer.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I do not buy into this crap that we can't compete for the title. Yes, the undesirables over @ Stamford Bridge and Etihad have been splurging shit loads of cash, but it's not like they are miles ahead, well at least not on point standings. Our faltering is our own doing as we drop too many points against pub teams, latest being Norwich who probably would have had a winless season hadn't we felt so charitable on the day.

The way we handle players contracts, off loading of our better players while insufficiently replacing them, our manager's inability to make a game winning substitution (in fact, changes are predetermined long before kick off and not based on the situation we find ourselves in during a game), failure to address weak areas in the squad, insistence on one formation and game plan regardless of opponent, persisting with dross players who sometimes are no way at fault as they are being played out of position....the list goes on.... All these point to a common problem, a manager so set in his arrogant and deluded way of doing things, so much so that the game seems to have evolved beyond his scope.

I know some folks on here and elsewhere still have some kind of sentimental attachment to AW. After all, Arsene 'knew' best, but there comes a time when he'll have to leave (should have happened already tbh) and.... yes you guessed correctly, be replaced by another manager. Are we to believe that his replacement won't be able to use the same resources now available to him to win the league? Or at the very least be competitive? Is there no other manager out there - a Mourinho perhaps - who can put together a decent enough squad, capable of derailing the cash trains of City and Chavs even for a season whilst not breaking the bank?

No one said that.

[Kano]

Can you be a twat on the internet, and not be a twat in real life. It is possible.

the more you try to convince me, the less i believe you.

[Kano]

No one said that.

we can't compete for the title.

[LDG]

I would suspect that a top Manager that was not at one.with the Board would have walked over that transfer.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

Sure he was with the decision.

I'm pretty certain the decision was made based on level or wages, vs length of contract, vs chances of him being as good as he is now in four years time.

I'm pretty certain we would have offered 2 yrs, on a #decent wage. I'm sure that RVC would have wanted 4 yrs at a lot more....and I'm sorry, I'm glad we didn't give in to the ****, and took the money. Selling him was the correct decision.

What we didn't do (as we so often fail to do) is adequately replace him. Like for like wasn't necessary, but you have to replace players of that calibre, with players of equal worth (not necessarily as gifted) to the team.

[Letters]

Selling him was the right decision after his statement which made his place untenable and forced the issue.
But this squad + RvP would challenge IMO and while players of his calibre don't grow on trees we needed to do better than Podolski and Giroud if we were going to sell.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm sure that RVC would have wanted 4 yrs at a lot more....and I'm sorry, I'm glad we didn't give in to the ****, and took the money. Selling him was the correct decision.

What we didn't do (as we so often fail to do) is adequately replace him. Like for like wasn't necessary, but you have to replace players of that calibre, with players of equal worth (not necessarily as gifted) to the team.


Selling him was the right decision after his statement which made his place untenable and forced the issue.
But this squad + RvP would challenge IMO and while players of his calibre don't grow on trees we needed to do better than Podolski and Giroud if we were going to sell.


Spot fecking on both of you.

[GP]

Selling him to man utd was the wrong decision.

[LDG]

Selling him to man utd was the wrong decision.

I'd agree with that. But I think it was the only deal open to us......in so far as making a profit goes.

[Letters]

Selling him to man utd was the wrong decision.
it was certainly an admission that we're not interested in competing with them any more and see ourselves as one of 'the rest', albeit near the top of the rest.

[Syn]

We didn't need to give into his demands. We still had him for a year. And, make no mistake, add RVP to this squad and we've got a good shot at the title. Let him fuck off next season, because if we win the title, we got more kids from Asia supporting us and we get money and we may attract good players (though not the very top, better than Giroud or Gervinho). That's the only way we can progress. You can't replace Van Persie because he's the best and he's settled in England.

£24m was the price of the title and as one of the richest clubs in the world we don't want to pay it. Or, at least, we're not brave enough to have a go.

[Kano]

why pay it when you can make it? makes sense for this lot. perfect sense. fits the business model after all.

nevermind, only two years left.

[GP]

Why make it when you can fake it?

[GP]

Why fake it when you can rake it?

[GP]

Why shake it when you can bake it?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Selling him to man utd was the wrong decision.
That is the key point. Selling our best player to them was lunacy. I'd have rather had him play out his contract and go to them.


Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[LDG]

Why bake it, when you can deep-fry it. With cheese.

[Kano]

why tape it when you can rape it

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Selling him to man utd was the wrong decision.

Yep and a stupid one, should have accepted the 8 mill for Juve tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We didn't need to give into his demands. We still had him for a year. And, make no mistake, add RVP to this squad and we've got a good shot at the title. Let him fuck off next season, because if we win the title, we got more kids from Asia supporting us and we get money and we may attract good players (though not the very top, better than Giroud or Gervinho). That's the only way we can progress. You can't replace Van Persie because he's the best and he's settled in England.

£24m was the price of the title and as one of the richest clubs in the world we don't want to pay it. Or, at least, we're not brave enough to have a go.

He did not want to stay, his statement said as much. He would not have been happy here had we kept him.

[Syn]

He did not want to stay, his statement said as much. He would not have been happy here had we kept him.

Who gives a shit. If he wants his big pay off, it's in his interests to score 40 goals in the season for us.

[Kano]

part of the bigger problem. everyone has to be in fucking wonderland before they can knuckle down and do their poxy job.

shut the fuck up you dutch rapist and put them in the net

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:

[Letters]

why tape it when you can rape it
You can do both...

[Syn]

It is possible. But we must remain humble.

[Power n Glory]

Selling him was the right decision after his statement which made his place untenable and forced the issue.
But this squad + RvP would challenge IMO and while players of his calibre don't grow on trees we needed to do better than Podolski and Giroud if we were going to sell.

Selling him wasn't the right decision and definitely not to Man United. You say the statement made his place untenable and forced the issue, but look at Walcott's situation with his contract. They were slow to offer him a deal, made him offer he wasn't happy with and have been slow to discuss the matter any further. It's a take it or leave it situation for him. Then look at the Song situation and how that was handled. With or without the statement, we weren't keeping him and as I've said before, PHW tried to manipulate the situation by linking him to Man City and moving for wages. It's bollocks.

Podolski and Giroud were RVP's replacements and they knew for a long time that they weren't going to keep him. Wenger already made that clear months earlier when questioning the logic in offering a player a massive contract when he's hit his peak and about to decline physically. As RVP said, he had contract talks with these bastards and he wasn't impressed. Have any of us been convinced by the bullshit they have been spewing? We have no ambition and we made those early signings to cover up the fact that we were about to let go of three of our best players from last season. If someone would have put a stupid bid in for Walcott, believe they would have jumped at the chance. They didn't think twice about selling Song. Selling RVP was the wrong decision.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Selling him wasn't the right decision and definitely not to Man United. You say the statement made his place untenable and forced the issue, but look at Walcott's situation with his contract. They were slow to offer him a deal, made him offer he wasn't happy with and have been slow to discuss the matter any further. It's a take it or leave it situation for him. Then look at the Song situation and how that was handled. With or without the statement, we weren't keeping him and as I've said before, PHW tried to manipulate the situation by linking him to Man City and moving for wages. It's bollocks.

Podolski and Giroud were RVP's replacements and they knew for a long time that they weren't going to keep him. Wenger already made that clear months earlier when questioning the logic in offering a player a massive contract when he's hit his peak and about to decline physically. As RVP said, he had contract talks with these bastards and he wasn't impressed. Have any of us been convinced by the bullshit they have been spewing? We have no ambition and we made those early signings to cover up the fact that we were about to let go of three of our best players from last season. If someone would have put a stupid bid in for Walcott, believe they would have jumped at the chance. They didn't think twice about selling Song. Selling RVP was the wrong decision.
And rightly so. Someone had bidded 20+ mill for Theo damm right we should have bit their arm off. End of he day RVP did not want to be here so we had to sell him. Did we have to sell him to the mancs no effing way, but its clear he wanted out.

Lets be honest RVP only had one good season with us, we'd have been stupid to have giving him a new deal when he was not even fit.

[IBK]

I honestly don't believe that a man of that intellegence, knowledge of the club and it's fanbase / history and sore loser mentality, believes that top four is a trophy.

I don't either, and I think that AW genuinely believes that he still has the ability to win the league with the players that he has chosen, and that he is clearly attached to. I think that he accepts that it is more likely that those clubs with bigger pockets will finish above us - but I think that a lot of our porblem is the manager's unwavering belief in his methods, his decisions (including his willingness to sell our best players) and his way of playing.

And IMHO he is right that us winning CL football is an underrated achievement. Where he is wrong, however, and increasingly so, is that we can continue to compete with our current squad. Its almost like a game of dare. Sell Nasri and Fabregas and see whether we can still do it...oh look, we just got over the line because of RVP's standout season - now let's see if we can do it without RVP...oh look - we are completely toothless. tell you what, lets get rid of Walcott...and so on...

[Power n Glory]

And rightly so. Someone had bidded 20+ mill for Theo damm right we should have bit their arm off. End of he day RVP did not want to be here so we had to sell him. Did we have to sell him to the mancs no effing way, but its clear he wanted out.

Lets be honest RVP only had one good season with us, we'd have been stupid to have giving him a new deal when he was not even fit.

You say we'd be right to sell but then wonder what the club has done with the money and grow frustrated with the results we see on the pitch, as seen over the past few weeks. It's not rightly so.

RVP had talks with the board and didn't want to stay because they don't have their priorities straight. They're happy to award themselves bonuses and pay rises whilst cutting costs on the pitch. That's why he didn't want to stay and I can't understand why fans continue to justify these sort of decisions when they can see it's the sort of thing that hurts us on the pitch. We're never going to grow as club with this sort of mentality.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You say we'd be right to sell but then wonder what the club has done with the money and grow frustrated with the results we see on the pitch, as seen over the past few weeks. It's not rightly so.

RVP had talks with the board and didn't want to stay because they don't have their priorities straight. They're happy to award themselves bonuses and pay rises whilst cutting costs on the pitch. That's why he didn't want to stay and I can't understand why fans continue to justify these sort of decisions when they can see it's the sort of thing that hurts us on the pitch. We're never going to grow as club with this sort of mentality.

Don't blame RVP for wanting to leave, if he or other player feel their ambitions are not being met then fine. However us offering him a new deal 2 years ago would have been mad. However i think during the summer the club should have worked harder to keep him and not mug him off. Once he gave his statement he was always going to be sold to the highest bidder.

Theo, In the summer would have been easily replacable and we would not have to spend a huge amount on a replacemnet. Victor Moses would have done ok, before he went chavs. Selling Theo in Jan would be stupid for us. However i think Theo will stay. he will sign a new deal soon. He loves the club after all.

[Power n Glory]

Don't blame RVP for wanting to leave, if he or other player feel their ambitions are not being met then fine. However us offering him a new deal 2 years ago would have been mad. However i think during the summer the club should have worked harder to keep him and not mug him off. Once he gave his statement he was always going to be sold to the highest bidder.

Theo, In the summer would have been easily replacable and we would not have to spend a huge amount on a replacemnet. Victor Moses would have done ok, before he went chavs. Selling Theo in Jan would be stupid for us. However i think Theo will stay. he will sign a new deal soon. He loves the club after all.

You say Victor Moses but we had a chance to move for him before he moved to Wigan and from the looks of things, Wenger already has Theo's replacement in mind with Gnarby and Oxlade. We wouldn't have bought an experienced winger if we sold him.

Also, the issue with RVP isn't down to the fact that we left his talks too late. It's part of it, but I can't see him wanting to sign a new deal if offered two years ago if Wenger and Ivan would have waxed lyrically about our self sustaining model and changing the goal posts on every occasion they are asked when we can compete for silverware.

Excuse after excuse...
- We'll be able to compete when we move to a bigger stadium.
- We'll be able to compete when we have paid down the debt.
- We'll be able to compete when we this team matures.
- We'll be able to compete once we have better sponsorship deals
- We'll be able to compete once UEFA enforce this FPP rule in two years

It's a cycle of garbage and that's why our players are heading for the exit. One line of bullshit after the next. We were going to sell him to the highest bidder regardless of the statement. PHW pretty much made his position untenable when made that Man City linked and talked about the £300k.

[Syn]

We were going to sell him to the highest bidder regardless of the statement.

Then why did he feel the need to make the statement?

[GP]

Then why did he feel the need to make the statement?

It's because he's a ****.

[Power n Glory]

Then why did he feel the need to make the statement?

Because PHW made a statement about Man City and him wanting £300k while he was away for the Dutch team and there was a gag order placed on him. Once back from the Euros, he made it clear that he wasn't happy with the ambition of the club and it wasn't about wages because that wasn't discussed in the meeting.

[Cripps_orig]

Robin van Persie was brave to move from Arsenal to Manchester United according to ex-France defender Mikael Silvestre.
The two sides meet in the league on Saturday with striker Van Persie, 29, facing his old club for the first time.
"You have to be courageous to make the move and Robin took the decision," said Silvestre, who made 326 appearances for United and 38 for Arsenal.
"He is enjoying his football, and has been scoring. He has had a great start at the club."
Van Persie moved to Old Trafford in a four-year deal worth about £24m in August after deciding against a contract extension at Arsenal and has scored seven goals in nine Premier League games for United this season.
"He is not hiding on the pitch, is taking responsibility and always asking for the ball," said Silvestre.
"Wayne Rooney was injured and he took the responsibility for the team by scoring the goals.
"Robin is under the same pressure as he was at Arsenal. He is a goalscorer, you expect him to put the ball in the back of the net and to have the same statistics as last year.
"If he stays fit, then there is the potential to form a great partnership with Wayne Rooney. Robin came to win trophies and Wayne is still thirsty for trophies. You couldn't ask for a better pairing."
Silvestre signed for the Red Devils following their 1999 Treble triumph and enjoyed nine years at the club, where he won the Champions League, five Premier League titles, an FA Cup and League Cup.
He moved to Arsenal in 2008 to become the first player to transfer directly between Arsenal and Manchester United since Viv Anderson in 1987.
And just four years after Silvestre's move, Van Persie went in the opposite direction, much to the chagrin of Gunners supporters.
"I think the Arsenal fans may boo Robin because he spent a lot of time there and the fans don't want to lose the best assets," explained Silvestre.
"Losing him to one of the main rivals is not good and they have the right to be angry but that is football, you can't keep a player against their will, but he won't celebrate if he scores as he still has a lot of respect for the club like I do."
The Gunners have not won silverware since 2005 when they beat United on penalties in the FA Cup final in Cardiff.
Silvestre feels it is the club's inability to hold on to star players which is hindering their chances of ending their trophyless run.
"Every time there is a player coming through, they leave the club," he said.
"Robin has now gone to United, Alex Song to Barcelona and Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri have left too.
"The core of the squad couldn't stay the same for a longer period so that is a problem to secure a trophy over a period of time."
After leaving German side Werder Bremen at the end of last season, Silvestre is back training at United to keep fit after a conversation with manager Sir Alex Ferguson.
Along with Van Persie, Silvestre is the only other player to have worked under both Ferguson and Wenger in the Premier League.
The former Rennes and Inter Milan defender was full of praise for both bosses.
"Ferguson and Wenger could not have managed any other team in football," he said.
"Ferguson is the best manager I have played under, while Wenger has taken Arsenal to a different level."

Silvestre :bow:

[Özim]

Ferguson sent us Silvestre and in return we sent him our best striker.

Good deal.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

They haven't won a trophy with RVP tbf. And won't until May at best.

RVP. :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

They haven't won a trophy with RVP tbf. And won't until May at best.

RVP. :haha:

And at very best they'll win the PL, CL, FA Cup and RvP will win the golden boot. The Carling Credit Card Dunkin Donuts Cup is beyond them this year, they are out, out, out!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Exactly. I'd rather have Dunkin Donuts without question.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Exactly. I'd rather have Dunkin Donuts without question.

krispy kreme :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Cesc loves them.

And we're back on topic.

[Cripps_orig]

Fergie sends us a player who won a fuck load of trophies

We send them a player whos won one trophy and hes an injury prone **** as well

Wenger gets one over on Fergie yet again

[Power n Glory]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2012/11/02/3495981/revealed-van-persie-told-wenger-which-players-to-sign-for

From Goal.com but worth a read. Interesting.


Revealed: Van Persie told Wenger which players to sign for Arsenal in explosive meeting

The Dutchman challenged his boss to buy proven stars and urged him to appoint an external No2 during row which led to terminal breakdown in their relationship.

The beginning of the end of Robin van Persie’s Arsenal career came in a meeting at Arsene Wenger’s home in the exclusive Totteridge area of north London three days after the dramatic finish to the last Premier League season.

Van Persie was finally ready to talk about his future after delaying contract talks until the last ball had been kicked of a campaign which had finished with him carrying off a clean sweep of the player of the year awards.

Goal.com can reveal for the first time, 24 hours before the pair are due to meet again as Arsenal take on Manchester United at Old Trafford, the explosive details of the summit, which was to sour the relationship of Wenger and Van Persie beyond repair.

It set the wheels in motion for a £24 million (€30m) move to United that would be completed three months later, but only after Wenger went to extreme lengths to steer his star player into a cut-price move to the continent.

As revealed by Goal.com in May, the talks took place on Wednesday, 16 May, less than 72 hours after Arsenal had sealed third spot in the league - and with it a prized Champions League place for the following season - courtesy of a fortuitous 3-2 win at West Brom.

Van Persie and his agent Kees Vos, a long-time family friend, met face to face with Wenger and the Arsenal chief executive Ivan Gazidis. The meeting took place at the manager’s home because he had just undergone eye surgery and was wearing an eye patch.

Discussions did not centre on what kind of contract Arsenal were willing to offer or, indeed, the type of deal that Van Persie wanted. Instead, the reigning PFA and FWA Player of the Year demanded to know the direction in which Arsenal were heading.

Wenger explained Lukas Podolski, a signing that had been announced in April, would provide greater penetration on the left flank and there were plans to add greater depth and quality to the squad.

Van Persie was not happy with what he heard. Emboldened by his remarkable performances in 2011-12, when his 37 goals inspired the team to heights that had seemed impossible following a disastrous start to the season, the Dutchman spoke his mind.

“There were very heated discussions,” a source with knowledge of the talks told Goal.com. “Van Persie told Wenger which players to sign and who he should appoint as his number two. He wanted an external coach from outside of the club to replace [the retired] Pat Rice and didn’t want Steve Bould to get promoted because he felt the current staff were all ‘yes’ men and too comfortable in the job.”

Arsenal were unwilling to comment when contacted by Goal.com but it is understood that Wenger was furious. He had once axed Thierry Henry from the team for declaring in his national newspaper column that the club should sign Shaun Wright-Phillips and did not take kindly to his judgement being questioned, however celebrated the player.

“Van Persie challenged Wenger and no-one really does that,” the source added. “It developed into quite a row.”

Subsequently, the relationship between the one of the most respected managers of his generation and one of Europe’s most feared forwards broke down.

Van Persie left for Euro 2012 with his future unresolved, while Wenger pushed ahead with plans to sign not one, but two stellar replacements.

The Arsenal board were keen to stick to their guns and refuse to grant Van Persie the simple exit out of the club that he wanted, while Wenger vowed to sell the player no matter what.

This view was strengthened when the Dutchman went public with his misgivings by releasing an incendiary statement on July 4 which effectively said he wanted to leave because he disagreed with Wenger and the board of directors "in many aspects… on the way Arsenal should move forward".

To Wenger, this amounted to treachery and, by twice crossing the line, he felt Van Persie had caused irreparable damage to their relationship.

The striker returned to pre-season training in mid-July but pulled out of Arsenal’s tour to try and force through a transfer. In the eyes of manager and player, it was not a matter of if but where.

The departure avenues had been narrowed down to the two Manchester clubs and Serie A champions Juventus. To Van Persie’s dismay, the two Spanish giants, Real Madrid and Barcelona, did not bite when the hook was dangled, while he refused Chelsea’s tentative interest because he did not want to move to another London club.

“There was one price for European clubs and another price for English clubs,” the source added. “Wenger cut the £25m (€31m) asking price by £10m (€12m) to sell him abroad but Van Persie didn’t want to go to Juventus.”

The 29-year-old risked tarnishing his legacy even further by taking the already well-trodden path from Arsenal to Manchester City, a route taken by Emmanuel Adebayor, Kolo Toure, Samir Nasri and Gael Clichy.

Wenger told a shareholder after the Arsenal AGM last week than City offered Van Persie an astonishing £300,000-a-week (€373,000). There was even a rumour that the Premier League champions were willing to pay for a helicopter to enable the Dutchman to commute from his Hertfordshire home to Manchester for training every day.

However, City were keen to end the overspending on transfers that accompanied their rapid rise from mid-table club to champions and refused to pay more than £15m (€19m) for Van Persie’s signature.

In any case, the Dutchman did not want to tarnish his Arsenal legacy even further by making what would have been viewed as the greediest move available, to City. The forward vowed to accept an offer on the table from Manchester United.

However, Van Persie’s stance changed slightly in the first few days of August as rumours spread around the London Colney headquarters that Santi Cazorla was on his way to the club, and could be followed by Nuri Sahin.

He had been going through the motions while he waited for a move to materialise but, suddenly, he appeared more motivated and interested. “His attitude and body language was different,” the source added. “He seemed to be saluting the signing of Cazorla.”

Van Persie flew out to Arsenal’s week-long training camp in Germany ahead of a friendly against Cologne but Wenger’s mind was made up.

A few days before the match, which took place on a Sunday night, the Frenchman gave the go-ahead for Gazidis and his opposite number at United, David Gill, to open talks on a deal that would take Van Persie to Old Trafford.

Twenty-four hours after Van Persie had been jeered by some Arsenal fans during a cameo appearance against Cologne, United and Arsenal agreed a £22m (€27m) transfer fee.

But, there was one final twist. Wenger, loathe to sell to a rival, said he wanted another £2m (€2.5m) from United, which frustrated the 19-times league champions and delayed the deal by another 24 hours. It would be late on Tuesday, 13 August before a £24m (€30m) fee was finally agreed between the two clubs, which was then announced to the media the following day.

Ever the gentleman, Wenger will no doubt shake the hand of Van Persie before proceedings gets underway at Old Trafford on Saturday afternoon as the Dutchman prepares to play against the team that he graced for eight seasons.

Hiding behind the mask of politeness will be the face of a manager let down by someone he had helped nurture into a superstar.

[LDG]

Rather convenient that this story should crop up the day before we play Utd and RVC.

What a load of shite.

It stinks more than a whores knickers.

[Power n Glory]

Not really, this has just come out before the game from Wenger. The press are just doing a little digging.


Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has revealed that Robin van Persie rejected a move to Manchester City in the summer.

Van Persie opted to join Manchester United instead and while Wenger does not want to go into those details he does hope the Dutchman gets a good reception when he faces his old club on Saturday.

"It is true Manchester City [were] interested in him and he has chosen to go to United," said Wenger.

"He could come out more on the reasons but I didn't want to know more about that.

"Does it hurt more than he left for another English club? That is not exactly what I wished!

"I hope the reception for him is a respectful one because he has played for us for eight years, he has done very well for us. You want him to be respected.

"We campaign against discrimination. It was still the case last week so why should it not be the case this week? I don't know, I think he will get the reception I hope for.

"Am I surprised he has done so well at Manchester United? No, not really. In Manchester you have good players around him, and Robin is very intelligent around the box.

"You would think that one of the parts of my job is to have a positive influence on people as a player. When you do that you are always satisfied. I think my influence was not too bad."

[Power n Glory]

If he rejected City and the AGM said we sold for 'footballing reasons' then there could be some truth in this. Plus RVP said there was no talk of money in the meeting in his open letter. Add all this together, especially with Wenger saying RVP rejected City, you know for sure that PHW was out of line and stirring up shit when he tried to accuse RVP of being lured away by City's big wages.

[Cripps_orig]

The article sounds about right

Goes in with RVCs statement and what we all know about Wenger and Gazidis

None of them have come out of this looking good.

[LDG]

I just don't care anymore anyway. Means very little to me now.

He was an Arsenal player....but not in the Bergkamp sense of the word.

I just don't care.

More worrying, as you say, is the way the board and manager come out of this.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Wenget wearing an eye patch. That's all I took from that.

[Marc Overmars]

I just don't care anymore anyway. Means very little to me now.

He was an Arsenal player....but not in the Bergkamp sense of the word.

I just don't care.

More worrying, as you say, is the way the board and manager come out of this.

Indeed. It's hard to stop caring though when the **** is banging them in every other week. We just need to get tomorrow out the way and move on.

[Power n Glory]

Not surprised by the Board and Wenger. We've always known Wenger won't be dictated to.

[Joker]

Not surprised, I'd say most if not all of the players who recently left has have done so not because of financial incentives but because they didn't think we were ambitious enough.

[Marc Overmars]

To be honest though, if you're a manager and one of your players tells you what to do, that's bound to rub you up the wrong way. RVC is a billy big bollocks and I don't think Wenget can deal with those type of players.

[Power n Glory]

To be honest though, if you're a manager and one of your players tells you what to do, that's bound to rub you up the wrong way. RVC is a billy big bollocks and I don't think Wenget can deal with those type of players.

All the more reason why we'll continue to hit the glass ceiling while he's in charge and why he prefers this sort of policy. Stubborn as a mule.

[GP]

To be honest though, if you're a manager and one of your players tells you what to do, that's bound to rub you up the wrong way. RVC is a billy big bollocks and I don't think Wenget can deal with those type of players.

There isn't a manager in the world who'll sign players and staff just because some player tells them to.

[Cripps_orig]

If Rooney was here and did what he did and requested a transfer or Tevez situation happened here, Wenger would have got rid of both.

Their actual managers managed to keep both and both and both went on to play significant parts in title winning sides.

Wenger needs to try talking to players instead of insisting his way is right when so many players disagree with it and 7 years of shite back that up

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Rather convenient that this story should crop up the day before we play Utd and RVC.

What a load of shite.

It stinks more than a whores knickers.

Well its goal.com, so its bound to be BS.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If Rooney was here and did what he did and requested a transfer or Tevez situation happened here, Wenger would have got rid of both.

Their actual managers managed to keep both and both and both went on to play significant parts in title winning sides.

Wenger needs to try talking to players instead of insisting his way is right when so many players disagree with it and 7 years of shite back that up

Why should he, he is the manager end of the day, no player is bigger then the club or the manager. You can tell your manager who to sign. you do that shit at Old trafford you'll be out before the season ends.

Those players stayed cause they got more money, not because they told their managers who to sign and they did.

Not that i believe the article anyways.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There isn't a manager in the world who'll sign players and staff just because some player tells them to.

And especially from a player who only had 1 full season in 8 years.

Remember where the article is from.

Goal.com :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

This is shocking. Yet again we see Wenger refusing to allow players to run the club. Does he learn his lesson from this RvC scandal? Not a bit, now he's dictating to Theo Walcott. I wish we had Ferguson or Mourinho here, they'd at least be reasonable in accepting the demands of their staff.

[Cripps_orig]

Well its goal.com, so its bound to be BS.

You seem to have this obsession with Goal.com :unsure:

Why not try reading the article and replying to what it says rather than focusing on where it came from cos it makes you look an idiot and trust me you dont need any help with that

There is nothing in that article that i would say is wrong considering what RVC said in his statement and we all know how Wenger is

[Power n Glory]

This is shocking. Yet again we see Wenger refusing to allow players to run the club. Does he learn his lesson from this RvC scandal? Not a bit, now he's dictating to Theo Walcott. I wish we had Ferguson or Mourinho here, they'd at least be reasonable in accepting the demands of their staff.

This is the dilemma. Where is the change going to come from if nobody says anything? It's not for the player to dictate to the coach but we curse the direction the club is going in and the lack of ambition but how can things change?

[Xhaka Can’t]

To be honest though, if you're a manager and one of your players tells you what to do, that's bound to rub you up the wrong way. RVC is a billy big bollocks and I don't think Wenget can deal with those type of players.

No manager in the world would put up with such unbelievable shit like that. If that was true that is.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You seem to have this obsession with Goal.com :unsure:

Why not try reading the article and replying to what it says rather than focusing on where it came from cos it makes you look an idiot and trust me you dont need any help with that

There is nothing in that article that i would say is wrong considering what RVC said in his statement and we all know how Wenger is

Don't need to read an article from Goal.com cause most are BS anyways. However it was true then RVC was dumb to think he could tell a manager what to do.However the fact he still compliments Wenger does not seem to me like they were are on the odds, i doubt he would hold back now if it was the case.

[Cripps_orig]

Don't need to read an article from Goal.com cause most are BS anyways.

:rolleyes:

As are most articles from any place but its gives us a talking point tbh

Without these articles, this place would be deader than your sex life

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not surprised by the Board and Wenger. We've always known Wenger won't be dictated to.

Name one manager with an ounce of self respect that would be dictated to in that way? If Van Persie tried that shit with Fergie, all that would be left of van Persie would be a nasty grease stain on the wall. And rightly so

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Niall_Quinn]

This is the dilemma. Where is the change going to come from if nobody says anything? It's not for the player to dictate to the coach but we curse the direction the club is going in and the lack of ambition but how can things change?

Here's the thing. Until Kroenke has banked his profit then nothing is going to change at this club. RvC must have known that too, even if his intentions were 100% in favour of the club then it would have been a spectacularly dumb move to imagine one player (no doubt viewed as a raw asset rather than a human being by vampires like Gazidis) could change the direction. This is like a secretary going up to the boss of Monsanto and saying let's stop poisoning the fuck out of people. And the boss says, you know you are right, fuck the billions of quid let's do it your way.

Kroenke hasn't put a penny into this club. The bastards that went before him (bar one guy who threw peanuts) put fuck all in either. Arsenal has been identified as a cash cow and is being milked. Wenger is the guy they have chosen to balance this primary objective with the ongoing pretence of being a corporation primarily concerned with football. And he does a great job of it. Only problem is, that's not what the fans want - but who are they? Just unwashed scum in the eyes of the board, listen to PHW if in any doubt.

If RvC loved the club and the fans as much as he claimed he could have taken a big pay hike and stuck it out. The fans would have much rather seen that happen than this alleged bust up where he effectively showed himself the door. Because the execs aren't going to have the curtain lifted on their game or see the emphasis shifted to the secondary agenda at the expense of the primary. No one man is bigger than the cash flow forecast. If RvC thought he was big enough to take them on he badly miscalculated who he was up against.

A Russian mobster will be next up. Good times, get with the program and don't for one second ever think your view counts for shit. Don't make the same mistake as RvC.

[Niall_Quinn]

:rolleyes:

As are most articles from any place but its gives us a talking point tbh

Without these articles, this place would be deader than your sex life

Or your penis.

[Power n Glory]

Don't need to read an article from Goal.com cause most are BS anyways. However it was true then RVC was dumb to think he could tell a manager what to do.However the fact he still compliments Wenger does not seem to me like they were are on the odds, i doubt he would hold back now if it was the case.

If you don't need to read it then you've said your piece and might as well move on because you're adding nothing else to discussion. Best thing to do is read it, weigh up what the two camps have said and then form your own opinion. No point in arguing or cosigning other posts when you haven't read it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Here's the thing. Until Kroenke has banked his profit then nothing is going to change at this club. RvC must have known that too, even if his intentions were 100% in favour of the club then it would have been a spectacularly dumb move to imagine one player (no doubt viewed as a raw asset rather than a human being by vampires like Gazidis) could change the direction. This is like a secretary going up to the boss of Monsanto and saying let's stop poisoning the fuck out of people. And the boss says, you know you are right, fuck the billions of quid let's do it your way.

Kroenke hasn't put a penny into this club. The bastards that went before him (bar one guy who threw peanuts) put fuck all in either. Arsenal has been identified as a cash cow and is being milked. Wenger is the guy they have chosen to balance this primary objective with the ongoing pretence of being a corporation primarily concerned with football. And he does a great job of it. Only problem is, that's not what the fans want - but who are they? Just unwashed scum in the eyes of the board, listen to PHW if in any doubt.

If RvC loved the club and the fans as much as he claimed he could have taken a big pay hike and stuck it out. The fans would have much rather seen that happen than this alleged bust up where he effectively showed himself the door. Because the execs aren't going to have the curtain lifted on their game or see the emphasis shifted to the secondary agenda at the expense of the primary. No one man is bigger than the cash flow forecast. If RvC thought he was big enough to take them on he badly miscalculated who he was up against.

A Russian mobster will be next up. Good times, get with the program and don't for one second ever think your view counts for shit. Don't make the same mistake as RvC.

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

Name one manager with an ounce of self respect that would be dictated to in that way? If Van Persie tried that shit with Fergie, all that would be left of van Persie would be a nasty grease stain on the wall. And rightly so

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

Read my response to NQ. It's a dilemma because Wenger and the board won't listen to anybody. Critics, former players, staff, the fans....

[Cripps_orig]

Or your penis.

Pretty much

[Xhaka Can’t]

Read my response to NQ. It's a dilemma because Wenger and the board won't listen to anybody. Critics, former players, staff, the fans....

Your post has nothing to do with it. No manager in football could or would put up with that from a player.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Niall_Quinn]

Your post has nothing to do with it. No manager in football could or would put up with that from a player.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

No manager anywhere would put up with it, that's what hierarchical bullshit is all about. I once called one of my managers a **** and even though I was 100% correct the **** still fired me.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If you don't need to read it then you've said your piece and might as well move on because you're adding nothing else to discussion. Best thing to do is read it, weigh up what the two camps have said and then form your own opinion. No point in arguing or cosigning other posts when you haven't read it.

I've read this artice, I said i don't be to read article to know, most are Bs on there, but i thought id read this one just to see what was said as it was being disscused.

[Power n Glory]

Here's the thing. Until Kroenke has banked his profit then nothing is going to change at this club. RvC must have known that too, even if his intentions were 100% in favour of the club then it would have been a spectacularly dumb move to imagine one player (no doubt viewed as a raw asset rather than a human being by vampires like Gazidis) could change the direction. This is like a secretary going up to the boss of Monsanto and saying let's stop poisoning the fuck out of people. And the boss says, you know you are right, fuck the billions of quid let's do it your way.

Kroenke hasn't put a penny into this club. The bastards that went before him (bar one guy who threw peanuts) put fuck all in either. Arsenal has been identified as a cash cow and is being milked. Wenger is the guy they have chosen to balance this primary objective with the ongoing pretence of being a corporation primarily concerned with football. And he does a great job of it. Only problem is, that's not what the fans want - but who are they? Just unwashed scum in the eyes of the board, listen to PHW if in any doubt.

If RvC loved the club and the fans as much as he claimed he could have taken a big pay hike and stuck it out. The fans would have much rather seen that happen than this alleged bust up where he effectively showed himself the door. Because the execs aren't going to have the curtain lifted on their game or see the emphasis shifted to the secondary agenda at the expense of the primary. No one man is bigger than the cash flow forecast. If RvC thought he was big enough to take them on he badly miscalculated who he was up against.

A Russian mobster will be next up. Good times, get with the program and don't for one second ever think your view counts for shit. Don't make the same mistake as RvC.

NQ, there is no need to explain what's going on with our club. I'm well aware of what's happening. It's been said plenty of times and you're obviously aware of it to.

The issue is, how are things going to change and if club won't listen, what's the next step? How can you be pissed at the fact that RVP wants no part in this? It's his contract talks and it's the one time he can speak his piece and take action if he doesn't like what he hears. Accepting a fat check and shutting up is what a mercenary would do. See Wenger.

It's all good saying things aren't going to change but people don't have to accept it. Especially not the players.

[Power n Glory]

Your post has nothing to do with it. No manager in football could or would put up with that from a player.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

Again, read my response to NQ. It's a dilemma. How will things change at the club?

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ, there is no need to explain what's going on with our club. I'm well aware of what's happening. It's been said plenty of times and you're obviously aware of it to.

The issue is, how are things going to change and if club won't listen, what's the next step? How can you be pissed at the fact that RVP wants no part in this? It's his contract talks and it's the one time he can speak his piece and take action if he doesn't like what he hears. Accepting a fat check and shutting up is what a mercenary would do. See Wenger.

It's all good saying things aren't going to change but people don't have to accept it. Especially not the players.

They have a queue lining up waiting to take the tickets off fans who protest in the only way open to them - refusing to pay to be shat on. Bottom line, we lose, they have complete control and there's nothing anyone can do about it. There is no next step, we either walk with them or stop walking but it doesn't affect them or their plans in the least.

I'm pissed with RvC because he's wearing a Utd shirt. That's unforgivable regardless of the circumstances. Plus he was our captain and best player, he claimed he loved the club and the fans. And I guess the reason I'm really pissed is because I was dumb enough to believe him.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This is the dilemma. Where is the change going to come from if nobody says anything? It's not for the player to dictate to the coach but we curse the direction the club is going in and the lack of ambition but how can things change?

By Fans not going to games, taking themselves of waiting lists etc not buying club merchandise. The fact TPTB know none of this will happen they know they can make mugs of the fans. Those players leaving of course they are not happy, but they do don't give a shit about the fans. So like NQ says its us that lose.

A smart board manager, would say lets win the CC and FA cup so we shut the fans up even if we want to mug them off.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not so sure about the season ticket waiting list being that big but that sort of protest could actually spark something in all Gooners. Just accepting it doesn't sit right with me and I'm sure many feel the same.

As for RVP...I went through the motions when Henry did the same with the 'how dare he' outrage. It's déjà vu. Years later the guy has come back with open arms and has a statue! He handled things badly and actually went to the press before on derby day! He was wrong but I understand now. Cesc even tried the subtle way and suggested we sign Villa and Alonso...we got nothing.

Has to be a point where the focus goes away from the players. This is déjà vu.

[Power n Glory]

By Fans not going to games, taking themselves of waiting lists etc not buying club merchandise. The fact TPTB know none of this will happen they know they can make mugs of the fans. Those players leaving of course they are not happy, but they do don't give a shit about the fans. So like NQ says its us that lose.

A smart board manager, would say lets win the CC and FA cup so we shut the fans up even if we want to mug them off.

It works both ways because we don't give a shit about them unless they are playing for Arsenal.

[Xhaka Can’t]

[QUOTE=Power_n

[Syn]

We've talked about this a lot but the one thing I still can't get my head around is why Van Persie didn't decide to see out his contract. The only thing I can think of is that he wanted a safety blanket - some insurance against getting injured, because if he's into his last year of his contract and he picks up a long-term injury, his mega money free-transfer contract is much less likely. I think Maccy said before that if we knew Van Persie was staying we might not have bought Cazorla or Podolski because it seems like overkill when the target is 4th and anything more is a 'nice to have'. But given that we had already signed those players, Van Persie could have just said - I'll stay for this year, and we can't get a refund from Malaga anyway.

And that's a game-changer because Van Persie up front with a midfield of Cazorla, Arteta and Wilshere is a big deal. I've heard he has got Man Utd 10 points this season...and pretty much single-handedly won them the points at Chelsea. I agree that Man Utd usually find a way and they might've only lost a few points without him, but forget that - those are the points he would've been winning for us. If you look around at other teams, it seems nobody can defend. Van Persie up front with our midfield and I reckon the title's on. Then he's going to leave on a free transfer and get a big money move to Man Utd or Barcelona or Madrid or whoever he wants - because even though he's 30, he's free and he's top quality for perhaps another 2 seasons.

[LDG]

[QUOTE=Power_n

A good point well made :good:

[GP]

[QUOTE=Power_n

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

[QUOTE=Power_n

At last somebody has said this!

[Niall_Quinn]

We've talked about this a lot but the one thing I still can't get my head around is why Van Persie didn't decide to see out his contract. The only thing I can think of is that he wanted a safety blanket - some insurance against getting injured, because if he's into his last year of his contract and he picks up a long-term injury, his mega money free-transfer contract is much less likely. I think Maccy said before that if we knew Van Persie was staying we might not have bought Cazorla or Podolski because it seems like overkill when the target is 4th and anything more is a 'nice to have'. But given that we had already signed those players, Van Persie could have just said - I'll stay for this year, and we can't get a refund from Malaga anyway.

And that's a game-changer because Van Persie up front with a midfield of Cazorla, Arteta and Wilshere is a big deal. I've heard he has got Man Utd 10 points this season...and pretty much single-handedly won them the points at Chelsea. I agree that Man Utd usually find a way and they might've only lost a few points without him, but forget that - those are the points he would've been winning for us. If you look around at other teams, it seems nobody can defend. Van Persie up front with our midfield and I reckon the title's on. Then he's going to leave on a free transfer and get a big money move to Man Utd or Barcelona or Madrid or whoever he wants - because even though he's 30, he's free and he's top quality for perhaps another 2 seasons.

Just bloody stay, bank £140K a week, become a legend, stand out for doing something different to all the other prick players. Despite the board, despite the crazy antics of the manager, see how it all pans out. That would be ambition and a genuine expression of love for the club. The players may be serious about some aspects of these disputes but there's no doubt it's convenient for them when they want to bump that bank balance up.

Agreed. Cazorla, Jack and RvP. Would have been deadly, better than anything he'll see at Utd in the near future at least. On the other hand, Ramsey, Gervinho, Santos - I can see how you'd want to get well clear of that.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

[QUOTE=GB.;212742]

At last somebody has said this!

Dont agree with it at all

[Niall_Quinn]

[QUOTE=Niall_Quinn;212755]

Dont agree with it at all

Use incomplete sentences or GTFO!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

[QUOTE=Niall_Quinn;212755]

Dont agree with it at all

:gp:

[IBK]

The Goal.com article doesn; seem far off the mark to me. After all, the player indicated that he had not been convinced that the club's ambitions matched his own', we all know how stubborn our manager can be, and we'd heard that RVP's wife and father (?) had advised him to stay - so second thoughts once we'd signed Cazorla isn't so far fetched.

Can you allow players to dictate terms - well I'd say no - but at the same time Mancinin and Fergie have both swallowed prima donna behaviour from their star strikers and got over it. Sad to say, but everything I've seen/heard about Wenger suggests that he would put his own interests/principles over the true interests of the club (or that he believes that they are one and the same - which they are not).

[Özil's Panoramic View]

The Goal.com article doesn; seem far off the mark to me. After all, the player indicated that he had not been convinced that the club's ambitions matched his own', we all know how stubborn our manager can be, and we'd heard that RVP's wife and father (?) had advised him to stay - so second thoughts once we'd signed Cazorla isn't so far fetched.

Can you allow players to dictate terms - well I'd say no - but at the same time Mancinin and Fergie have both swallowed prima donna behaviour from their star strikers and got over it. Sad to say, but everything I've seen/heard about Wenger suggests that he would put his own interests/principles over the true interests of the club (or that he believes that they are one and the same - which they are not).

Only room for 1 prima donna round these parts

Arsene :bow:

[Cripps_orig]

Shouldn’t football fans grow up and stop having massive collective strops every time a player moves to a rival club? Aren’t we all hypocrites for castigating footballers who move for self-interest, when most of us do the same in our own careers?

Partly, yes. But as Robin van Persie’s move to Manchester United in the summer demonstrates, the threesome relationship between clubs, fans and players is far too messy over which to cast such simplistic judgments.

The story begins with Arsene Wenger signing a talented yet troublesome Dutch youngster from Feyenoord in May 2004 – a dream move for Van Persie, who was soon training alongside giants of the Invincibles team such as Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp, Robert Pires, and Pascal Cygan.

Five months later and the then 21-year-old’s ability was apparent for all at Highbury to see, as he curled in a superb last minute equaliser to save us from a humiliating home defeat to Southampton.

A star was born!

Kind of.

Alas for Robin, injuries plagued his time at the club. Only two of his eight seasons saw him start 20 or more league games. And not until 2010-11 did he manage more than 20 goals in a season (including all competitions).

Yet the manager stuck by him while the fans kept faith – the same fans that relentlessly, vociferously sang his name last season, once his injury problems finally cleared up.

The Gooner affection that surrounded Robin for much of the previous two seasons was richly enjoyed by its recipient and added to the drama of the protracted “will he, won’t he” saga as his contract ticked down. He, his advisers and his family happily endorsed the painting of a man who was vehemently ambitious yet deeply in love with his club.

“I’ll always be a Gunner,” he smiled when collecting the Football Writers' Footballer of the Year award last May – an early sign of his odd desire to fire up the emotional link with the fans while simultaneously paving the way for his departure.

Robin’s regular pledges of love for the club were echoed – somewhat strangely – by his family. His wife used Twitter to refute “rumours” of his departure. “Please don’t believe anything,” she begged of Arsenal fans, while gaily retweeting happy exchanges with supporters throughout the period.

"Arsenal believed in Robin when he was young and when he was considered as a bit of a rebel,” she told the press in May. “I also love it that everyone at Arsenal respects him. At the training ground, at the stadium, his team-mates, the fans. Everyone comes up to me all the time to tell me how happy they are with him.”

If that wasn’t enough, enter Van Persie’s mother: “Arsenal is a beautiful club. I honestly feel that the fans and the people at the club really love him. That is worth so much, too,” she said, also back in May.

As the Van Persie womenfolk dropped hint after hint that Robin could stay, the man himself added to the feeling – for example by proudly telling of how his 91-year-old grandfather was allowed onto the Arsenal pitch after a game, as another example of his family’s supposed connection with the club.

Yet we all know how it ends. Just weeks later Robin published an open letter to Arsenal fans which absurdly attested his “respect and loyalty for the club” while at the same time forcing his way out of north London and straight into the arms of one of our most fierce rivals.

The contradiction perhaps shouldn’t have surprised us. As crazy as it sounds, Robin wanted to stay loved by Arsenal fans while also getting a chance to play for Manchester United. This is a man who poses proudly with his dutiful wife and kids, yet allegedly cannot resist partying with women of dubious morals while away from home with the Dutch national team.

He demands his cake’s icing to remain pristinely undisturbed, at the same time as wanting its creamy filling to be shoved gluttonously into his gob.

As Robin has discovered, you can’t have it both ways – at least not in the football world. And most people in the game understand that you can’t have it both ways with regards to the fans’ behaviour.

If supporters are going to be as devoted and caring towards players as Villa’s faithful have been of Stiliyan Petrov, to give one admittedly extreme example, then they’re also going to be pretty upset when a player callously snubs them and jumps into bed with the enemy.

It may seem irrational and childish, but such is the nature of supporting a football team. Jumping on a train to Carlisle on a Tuesday night to get drunk with your mates while cheering on 11 men kicking a ball around is also irrational and childish, yet the game would be pretty dull if thousands of us packed that in for the more “rational” option of a night in with a DVD and a 'Dine in for £10' meal for two deal from M&S.

Robin will, therefore, get a rough reception from us travelling Gooners tomorrow. Yet I, personally, plan to refrain from such behaviour. He has already paid the price, in my mind.

He wanted to be an Arsenal legend and a Manchester United legend but has lost any right to the former. Quite simply, he made his decision and is not welcome back. Energy wasted on vitriol towards him is better spent standing together and supporting our wonderful club and the boys on the pitch who have not (yet) deserted us.

And besides, I’m getting too old for all that shouting and bile. It’s a great shame that Van Persie slipped so swiftly from potential Arsenal legend to troublesome runaway child; but that’s what happened, and so be it.

You see I’m not angry with you, Robin – just disappointed.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/11/02/3496257/traitor-van-persie-not-worth-the-fuss-lost-arsenal-legend-status-

Fans point of view on the ****

Cant say i disagree. RVC wanted to be a legend at both Arsenal and Man Utd but by joining Man utd, his legacy at Arsenal will always be tainted by the fact that hes a ****.

Only a select few can play for rival clubs and be legends at both. You'd have to be bloody good which RVP bar an 18 month period was not for us.

Off the top of my head, i can only think of Pat Jennings who would be a legend at rival clubs although i say that having no idea how Spuds view him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sol Campbell?

No wait, he's an even bigger ****.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Sad to say, but everything I've seen/heard about Wenger suggests that he would put his own interests/principles over the true interests of the club (or that he believes that they are one and the same - which they are not).What exactly are the true interests of the club and who dictates them?

[Özim]

We're the ones that sold him to Man U at the end of the day, we didn't have to we could have found other clubs or just said no.

We took the money and were happy to see him go to Man U. Could never see Fergie doing the same.

People were saying he wouldn't move to City or Chelsea for anything but money and that a move to Man U would show he wants to achieve success rather than to leave for money, he did.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We're the ones that sold him to Man U at the end of the day, we didn't have to we could have found other clubs or just said no.

We took the money and were happy to see him go to Man U. Could never see Fergie doing the same.

People were saying he wouldn't move to City or Chelsea for anything but money and that a move to Man U would show he wants to achieve success rather than to leave for money, he did.

True ver true.

Id say he went for the money as well to win stuff. Im sure he is not to upset getting £1 mill a month.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It works both ways because we don't give a shit about them unless they are playing for Arsenal.

I was talking about players in general.

[Globalgunner]

True ver true.

Id say he went for the money as well to win stuff. Im sure he is not to upset getting £1 mill a month.

He went for several reasons

1. He wanted to get the windfall that he saw other players getting at Manchester(s) and Chelsea

2. He truly wanted to lift some silverware. Little or no chance of winning anything here

3. Once he had crossed swords with Wenger he couldnt stay. Wenger truly thinks he is divine, even though results say otherwise.

If I were Rvp....i honestly would have done the same.....Fuck GW and the plebs who inhabit its keyboards.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He went for several reasons

1. He wanted to get the windfall that he saw other players getting at Manchester(s) and Chelsea

2. He truly wanted to lift some silverware. Little or no chance of winning anything here

3. Once he had crossed swords with Wenger he couldnt stay. Wenger truly thinks he is divine, even though results say otherwise.

If I were Rvp....i honestly would have done the same.....Fuck GW and the plebs who inhabit its keyboards.

Well its not like he cared about the fans who went to see him play week in week out either but thats footballers for ya.

No problem with him wanting to go that his business.

[Cripps_orig]

Considering RVC owed us a hell of a lot more than the other players who left as he spent so much time injured, he can go fuck himself

He hardly kicks a ball for us for 6 odd years and as soon as he comes good, he fucks off? To our rivals?

What a classy guy. Stabs every fan who cheered him, sang his name in the back by joining the Mancs.

Its time he got another injury tbh. A 2 footer from anyone of our players on his face would do nicely

[Ollie the Optimist]

Considering RVC owed us a hell of a lot more than the other players who left as he spent so much time injured, he can go fuck himself

He hardly kicks a ball for us for 6 odd years and as soon as he comes good, he fucks off? To our rivals?

What a classy guy. Stabs every fan who cheered him, sang his name in the back by joining the Mancs.

Its time he got another injury tbh. A 2 footer from anyone of our players on his face would do nicely


i rarely agree with Ach but this is right. he through everything this club, the manager, the fans had given him right back in their faces, then for good measure kicked us in the balls too.

why wasnt he vocal when he was on the injury table? he did nothing for 7 years, was happy, never moaned etc, has one good year and forgets all about the man who stood by him through everything

[Joker]

Considering RVC owed us a hell of a lot more than the other players who left as he spent so much time injured, he can go fuck himself

He hardly kicks a ball for us for 6 odd years and as soon as he comes good, he fucks off? To our rivals?

What a classy guy. Stabs every fan who cheered him, sang his name in the back by joining the Mancs.

Its time he got another injury tbh. A 2 footer from anyone of our players on his face would do nicely

No player deserves injury just because they choose to leave a football club.

[Ollie the Optimist]

We're the ones that sold him to Man U at the end of the day, we didn't have to we could have found other clubs or just said no.

We took the money and were happy to see him go to Man U. Could never see Fergie doing the same.

People were saying he wouldn't move to City or Chelsea for anything but money and that a move to Man U would show he wants to achieve success rather than to leave for money, he did.

i dont think thats true sadly. there were only two clubs involved apparently (he rejected both chelsea and city) goal says we lowered the asking price by 10 million for juve but he didnt want to go there. it was united or us. he couldnt stay with us. that statement meant it was impossible for him to be captain of a team he said were shit. he couldnt be captain when he broke the relationship with the manager. if he was put in the reserves he would kick off. impossible situation for us after that statement was released and there was nothing we could but sell.


it should never have got to this place in the first instance however selling to united was the only thing we could do after that statement

[Cripps_orig]

No player deserves injury just because they choose to leave a football club.

You do if that football club is the Arsenal tbh

Fuck this shit.

Bring on the Mancs, lets show them what we are made of. Lets take those ****s to the cleaners

We are doing this

[Niall_Quinn]

No player deserves injury just because they choose to leave a football club.

WTF? Do you have any proof to back that up or are you just talking out of your vagina again?

[Syn]

You do if that football club is the Arsenal tbh

Fuck this shit.

Bring on the Mancs, lets show them what we are made of. Lets take those ****s to the cleaners

We are doing this

No we're not.

[Joker]

WTF? Do you have any proof to back that up or are you just talking out of your vagina again?

I don't need proof, it's just my opinion.

[Cripps_orig]

[/FONT][/COLOR]
No we're not.

You've convinced me :(

Wenger out

[Niall_Quinn]

lets show them what we are made of

Probably better not to do that, instead lets pretend to be a team full of committed players who all fight for the shirt.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't need proof, it's just my opinion.

Your opinion counts for nothing, as you well know.

[Syn]

Wenger out

No he's not.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You do if that football club is the Arsenal tbh

Fuck this shit.

Bring on the Mancs, lets show them what we are made of. Lets take those ****s to the cleaners

We are doing this

What Arsenal team have you been watching this season.

[Ollie the Optimist]

What Arsenal team have you been watching this season.


we need the Arsenal that played city to turn up. that side will turn over united. if any other Arsenal side turns up, we are fucked

[Cripps_orig]

And people wonder why i am not optimistic anymore

GW has done its work well

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Considering RVC owed us a hell of a lot more than the other players who left as he spent so much time injured, he can go fuck himself

He hardly kicks a ball for us for 6 odd years and as soon as he comes good, he fucks off? To our rivals?

What a classy guy. Stabs every fan who cheered him, sang his name in the back by joining the Mancs.

Its time he got another injury tbh. A 2 footer from anyone of our players on his face would do nicely

Ach :bow:

Always my fave poster on here tbh.


Its time he got another injury tbh. A 2 footer from anyone of our players on his face would do nicely

He'll probs get taken out by Rafel.

"Boss i thought he still played for Arsenal"

[Niall_Quinn]

we need the Arsenal that played city to turn up. that side will turn over united. if any other Arsenal side turns up, we are fucked

Best tactics will be to unplug phones and stay of the Internet, don't go to work on Monday and don't buy any newspapers. Certainly don't watch MOTD. Should be fine then.

[Joker]

Your opinion counts for nothing, as you well know.

I suppose your does? Ironic that you're asking for proof when you believe in far out conspiract theories that have absolutely no evidence in support of them.

[Niall_Quinn]

I suppose your does? Ironic that you're asking for proof when you believe in far out conspiract theories that have absolutely no evidence in support of them.

Don't be such a plonker. I'm fucking around with you you miserable sod.

[Ollie the Optimist]

as we all talking about judas, can the two managers please shut the fuck about respecting him, we'll show him the respect he showed us in releasing that statement,


also fergie said that man united always welcome back ex players to old trafford with respect and applause.

whats he been on today?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td-9hY6h5go

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Your opinion counts for nothing, as you well know.

Disgusting how the only man on GW to see RVC for what he was, is treated on here.

Joker :bow:

[Cripps_orig]

Oh we are fucked regardless of how we play.

We are a little bit shit.

But its how we lose thats important. Do we collapse like last season and have those ****s humiliate us?

Or do we lose with pride?

We are losers, lets be the best losers we can be. Lets lose with honour, dignity and fight.

That my friends is the Wenger pre match speech right there

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh we are fucked regardless of how we play.

We are a little bit shit.

But its how we lose thats important. Do we collapse like last season and have those ****s humiliate us?

Or do we lose with pride?

We are losers, lets be the best losers we can be. Lets lose with honour, dignity and fight.

That my friends is the Wenger pre match speech right there

You could also say we are like a wounded animal and you know what they say about wounded animals? Take them to the vet to be put down.

[Syn]

Wenger's pre-match speech should be:

There is little bit lot of interest and hype surrounding this game. If you want to be noticed by the top teams and get your big money move, this is the chance to not lack sharpness in the final third or drop physically in the second half.

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's just hope we don't jump out to a 4-0 lead. I can take a beating but not another 4-0 lead!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

"They mat take our best player's but they'll never take our passing" Has to be his speech.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal legend Robert Pires has insisted his former side can finish in the Premier League top three this season.

The Gunners have endured a mixed start to the season but ensured they remain two points behind fourth-placed Tottenham with a 1-0 win over QPR on Saturday.

And Pires, who was part of an Arsenal side which went an entire domestic season unbeaten to lift the title, believes the current crop have enough about them to finish near the summit.

“I see top three for them,” Pires told ZoneMixte.fr.

“The come-back of Wilshere will be good, Arteta has progressed. Giroud, Podolski, Cazorla have experience at a high level. Therefore, I think, and i hope, they will make great things.”

The 39-year-old also hailed Arsene Wenger’s financial philosophy, believing it will reap rewards once Uefa’s new Financial Fair Play regulations come into play.

He said: “Now, with the fair-play system, Arsenal will be one of the only clean clubs in Europe. When Arsène explains that he wants to qualify in Champions League, he knows that it is an important competition at the economical plan.

“But I understand fans and players who want to win titles. The Premier League, the Cup, even League Cup are important, because it's a means to making a celebration, therefore the words are not the same and I understand that people could be angry.”

Pires went on to dismiss suggestions that the north London club are reluctant to invest in the transfer market, citing the recent arrivals of Santi Cazorla and Olivier Giroud.

He continued: “I think Arsène can spend money. If it was not the case, Cazorla couldn't come, for example.

“Giroud is good. I ask people to be patient with him. It's not easy for Olivier, he has to score goals, in another country, with another language.

“But his second mission is to replace Robin Van Persie, so good luck!

“His relation with Belhanda in Montpellier for example, its the result of work. This kind of relation, he will have with players like Cazorla, Podolski or Walcott, because there are players who play in side and have to give him good pass.

“People have to remember that Thierry Henry didn't score when he arrived. Now he is a legend. Henry was very strong with Bergkamp, i don't know if he could become a great player without him.”

No chance of top 3.

Spot on about Henry and Bergkamp. Bergkamp :bow:

[Cripps_orig]

Nigel Winterburn believes Arsenal will be making a mistake if they allow Theo Walcott to leave the club.
The England winger is no closer to agreeing a new contract and, with his current deal set to expire at the end of the season, is attracting interest from rivals Liverpool.
Walcott wants assurances that he will start to play through the middle as a striker and Winterburn has urged Arsene Wenger to grant him his wish and keep him at the Emirates.
“I am a bigger fan of Theo Walcott than a lot of pundits,” said the former Gunners star. “It’s showed up over the last few weeks when Theo Walcott hasn’t been around due to injury.
“When he’s come on he’s made a difference. We say about Theo Walcott that he’s not consistent enough, his crossing isn’t good enough when he plays out wide. But he is a good finisher and he has that ability to change a game.
“You need a player like that in the Arsenal team. You also need someone with pace up front as well. I hope eventually he does get that chance to play up front.
“It is a concern that the contract is still dragging out. I don’t think it is about money, I think he genuinely does want to play the majority of the game up front.
“If Arsenal say we can’t guarantee you the majority of games but we will switch you between wide right and up front, I think Theo Walcott would sign for the club.”


Read more: http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/121102/exclusive-winterburn-urges-arsenal-not-let-walcott-leave-184#ixzz2B6i2WCp2
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Read more at http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/121102/exclusive-winterburn-urges-arsenal-not-let-walcott-leave-184#dW8hleTirp6BEpQM.99

Winterburn :bow:

Always been a fan

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nigel :bow:

[gooners]

“If Arsenal say we can’t guarantee you the majority of games but we will switch you between wide right and up front, I think Theo Walcott would sign for the club.”

No, it is all about the moolah --- that is what PHW & majority on gw say. Get with the popular mantra NIGEL :scarf:

[Cripps_orig]

Fresh from an incredible 7-5 victory over Reading, Arsenal return on Saturday to the scene of last season's 8-2 mauling by Manchester United.
Both scorelines would have given former Gunners boss George Graham nightmares and you suspect they will hardly have impressed current coach Steve Bould either - one of the grittiest members of Graham's famously stubborn Arsenal back four in the late eighties, early nineties era.
The 49-year-old former Stoke, Gunners and Sunderland centre-half Bould was brought into manager Arsene Wenger's set-up to improve a defence which was too porous last season.
Arsenal go into the game at United with the tightest defence in the league, letting in just six goals in nine Premier League games, compared with 18 at the same point last season.
They have conceded far fewer shots on goal and the number of tackles they have made has significantly increased too.
Paul Davis, who also played under Graham and chalked up 447 appearances for the Gunners, thinks the defence has gelled as centre-back Per Mertesacker continues to acclimatise to English football and the consistency of right-back Carl Jenkinson improves, although the returning Bacary Sagna is likely to feature on Saturday.
Then there is Bould's influence. Davis, a midfielder who enjoyed a 17-year career at the club, has seen a better shape to the back four and thinks it will improve as the former academy manager increases his authority as assistant manager.
"Steve will have brought some of his experiences with George [Graham] to the current team," Davis told BBC Sport. "Almost every day we did something defensive. It was repetitive and boring, but if it gets results you go with it and you can see the reasoning behind it.
"What was interesting for me is that we have seen Arsenal do zonal marking at set-pieces this season and that's something George never did. So Steve has developed his own ideas. He knows the game and he's learning all the time.
"He's still relatively young working at this level, so he's probably still finding his way to talk to players because he's been working with younger players up until this point and it's a different game altogether.
"It's not as easy as people think; the team is full of internationals, and you have to prove to them you know what you're doing."
However, had the fixture come around sooner, Gunners fans might have approached it with more confidence as recent form has slipped after defeats by Norwich and Schalke.
They conceded just two goals in their first five games, which included a 2-0 victory at Liverpool and a 1-1 draw at champions Manchester City. But then Chelsea exposed flaws in the defence at the Emirates, winning 2-1, and although a win at West Ham restored belief, the picture since the international break has been more worrying.
On Saturday they also face former striker Robin van Persie, who has scored nine goals this season in an ultra-attacking United team, and will be one of the threats Arsenal face at Old Trafford.
One of Van Persie's more impressive traits since moving to Old Trafford has been his link-up play with Wayne Rooney.
Both men are inclined to drop deeper into space to receive the ball, with the Dutchman also adept at drifting into the inside left position. When Van Persie does so, it is Rooney who is often waiting to get on the end of his deliveries.
On the right-hand side, meanwhile, Antonio Valencia has set up Van Persie for goals in his last two league games and will be relishing the prospect of facing Santos, who Davis sees as a "weakness" in the Gunners defence.Davis says Arsenal need to become a more balanced team in order to provide support for each other in key areas like these.
And while the return of Jack Wilshere to the Arsenal midfield could help free the attack-minded Spaniard Santi Cazorla, the England international's ability to provide cover for the back four could be more crucial against United's multi-faceted forward line.
"I feel you do need at least one defending type of midfielder to protect the back players and we haven't really got that in the Arsenal midfield," Davis added.
"Wilshere is quite a forward-thinking player and I know Mikel Arteta is sat in front of the back four and dictating the play, but he's not known for his defensive skills. Those things matter over the course of the season.
"There has been some improvement but maybe we need some new personnel in there to be a more solid unit. Chelsea, for example, have the likes of Ramires and John Mikel Obi, and [Arsenal midfielder] Abou Diaby has been a big miss since he was injured."
But as Wenger has alluded to, there are also concerns in the creative engine room as opposition teams look to block one of Arsenal's main supply lines.
"Arsenal's good form this season has coincided with Cazorla being in command of games," Davis said.
"But Chelsea, particularly, played well against him, and I think they managed to stifle him. Schalke did too. If he isn't ticking, the team hasn't been attacking that well."
Addressing those areas of concern will be crucial to Arsenal getting a positive result at Old Trafford and help erase the memories from last season.

Need to get Paul Davis on the pitch to break some jaws.

[Cripps_orig]

Former Arsenal star Mikael Silvestre believes Jack Wilshere’s return to fitness can inspire the club to Capital One Cup glory.

The England star spent 14 months on the sidelines with knee and ankle injuries but made an impressive come back as he played 63 minutes in the Gunners’ 1-0 win over QPR.
And following their dramatic 7-5 victory over Reading, which saw them progress to the last eight of the League Cup, their former defender believes the club’s seven-year trophy drought could be about to end.
Silvestre told the Weekend Sports Breakfast: “I think Arsenal have got a chance in the Capital One Cup. They came back fantastically against Reading, so they can go on in this competition.
“Only Chelsea are the other big gun left in the competition, so they might end up in the final of the League Cup.
“It’s been difficult for Arsenal after losing Robin Van Persie and Alex Song. Also, you have Abou Diaby who is injured at the moment.
“You have to count on Jack Wilshere to bring some magic but there is a lot of weight on his shoulders, he’s still young.”


Read more: http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/121103/exclusive-%E2%80%93-silvestre-wilshere-magic-can-end-arsenal-trophy-drought-184497#SJCVc4ehZVDDYpc0.99#ixzz2BDIiroXh
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Read more at http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/121103/exclusive-%E2%80%93-silvestre-wilshere-magic-can-end-arsenal-trophy-drought-184497#ZjQo817soxZvFCpz.99

Lets hope so

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Lets hope so

Might as well give it a go and get that good feeling back.

[Cripps_orig]

Might as well go got it get that good feeling back.

Yeah i dont know what that means

And im arguably the best in the world at trying to find out what you are trying to say

[Cripps_orig]

Ray Parlour has described Andre Santos' decision to swap shirts with Robin van Persie at the interval of Manchester United's 2-1 win over Arsenal on Saturday as a "joke."

The Brazilian has come under fire for a poor display at Old Trafford, where the left-back failed to deal with the movement of Rafael and Antonio Valencia throughout the game.

And the former Arsenal midfielder believes Santos should have been concentrating more on the game, and less on securing Van Persie's shirt - especially considering the forward scored after just three minutes.

Questioned by The Sun on Santos' action, Parlour said: "That's a joke. I wouldn't have that. At half-time? He should be concentrating on his game and he was having a nightmare."

The £5.6 million signing from Fenerbache has struggled to hold down a regular place in Arsene Wenger's starting line-up since joining in 2011, and did his future chances no favours as he struggled throughout.

Parlour suggested the 29-year-old should not be played in defence again as he was unable to maintain defensive discipline, which ultimately cost Arsenal: "He can't play in a back four as he gets caught out of position all the time."

Santos' tactical intelligence was questioned as early as the third minute, when he failed to pick up the run of compatriot Rafael, whose cross ultimately found its way to Van Persie and the back of the net.

Dont blame Santos for the first goal at all but the shirt swapping thing was pathetic

[Kano]

he offered more than enough opportunities to utd for us not to worry about any sort of blame for the first.

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENE WENGER has a massive job on his hands. Again.
The Arsenal boss is relying on a squad who in some cases are not up to it — and this worries me.
I completely understand why the club’s fans were furious with Andre Santos for taking Robin van Persie’s shirt at half-time.
But apart from the fact Santos is not good enough and doesn’t appear to care, Wenger has other major problems.
It is baffling that Theo Walcott is repeatedly starting matches on the bench.
The time has come for Theo to not only start but to get a run as a central striker.
Having played in that position, I would like to think I have a good idea of what it takes to operate there.
With Theo’s pace and ability, I absolutely guarantee he will score goals if he gets three or four games up front.
It seems obvious to me and Theo should have had the chance years ago.
He’s a natural. Theo is a quality finisher, as he proved against Reading last week but don’t forget that he has scored goals against all the big clubs.
It doesn’t make sense to keep him as a winger. I understand why the guy has become frustrated with his lack of opportunities down the middle.
It’s annoying as Wenger keeps talking about playing Theo there but never actually does it. I think Olivier Giroud may come good up front but it’s not as though Arsenal have loads of other options.
I find it strange Theo has not played regularly since being unable to agree on a new deal.
It’s a shame, as he seems desperate to stay, unlike some of the stars who have left in recent seasons.
With Theo in the final year of this contract, he really needs to be given the chance to play in the position where he made a stunning impact as a teenager for Southampton.
The results over the last few weeks have shown something has to change.
Arsenal have not been good enough.
The form of defenders Thomas Vermaelen and Laurent Koscielny has been poor.
Bacary Sagna, back again after a broken leg, is a quality full-back. But even he has voiced concerns over the number of big names leaving, so I guess he could be next.
Wenger has said that when a top international player signs for Arsenal, he only asks about if the team is in the Champions League and not whether the club has won a cup.
I don’t know what Wenger is going on about — and I’m still waiting for those top players to arrive rather than go somewhere else.
Over the last six or seven years, Wenger has not signed the players who will take the club back to where it should be. Arsenal have lost out on the likes of Juan Mata and Eden Hazard.
Everyone keeps telling me how many caps Lukas Podolski has won for Germany — but I don’t care about that.
Podolski started well for Arsenal but he needs to be more consistent.
Wenger did incredibly well to take the club to third last term after a tough start but these are testing times.
Santos is a poor left-back. It’s been a long time since I have seen an Arsenal defender play this badly on a regular basis.
He gets roasted by opponents, caught out of position and goes to ground too easily. But the shirt incident on Saturday was really annoying.
I was lucky enough to swap shirts with Lothar Matthaus, Zinedine Zidane and George Weah — as you’d expect, the exchange was always made at the end of the game.
Had I asked for the shirt of Eric Cantona at half-time at Old Trafford, the boys in our team would have ripped my head off in the changing rooms.
But I would never have asked in the first place.
Santos was disrespectful to the supporters, disrespectful to his team-mates and disrespectful to the Arsenal badge.
I felt embarrassed for Santos.
The most worrying aspect of this unbelievable incident is it appears there is not enough discipline under Wenger.
Whether Santos asked for the shirt or it was offered by Van Persie is irrelevant — he took the item.
I hope Santos got abuse in the dressing room from his team-mates — but he probably didn’t. And that’s a shame.
I get loads of stick from Gooners but I love the club. I have to ask whether some of the current players really care.


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4628892/Ian-Wright-Arsene-Wenger-has-so-many-problems-at-Arsenal.html#ixzz2BaFfHJ2G

Spot on again from Wrighty

This was from before the Schalke match

[Cripps_orig]

Former England international Lee Dixon feels that Arsenal defender Carl Jenkinson has a bright future ahead of him following his call-up to Roy Hodgson's squad to face Sweden.

The firner right-back, who played over 600 games for the Gunners, argues that the former Charlton man has stepped up and improved this season due to more playing time in Bacary Sagna's absence with injury.

The 48-year-old notes that Jenkinson has all the attributes to be a top player for Arsene Wenger's side and hopes that he can continue to progress even now that the Frenchman has returned to action.

"He's certainly got potential to be an international player," Dixon told the club's official website. "The important thing with young lads like that is you let their progress go unhindered.

"He seems like a good kid. I don't know him but I'd like to sit down with him and have a chat to find out what his thoughts are. I believe he's a really good kid and he's got a huge future ahead of him.

"As a player, you want a chance to play and show what you can do, as well as learning as you're playing. It's important you get those opportunities. Sometimes you don't always get a chance to get a run of first-team games because it's not your time. I like him a lot. I think he's got a lot of attributes to go towards being a very good full-back.”

Dixon feels that the 20-year-old has shown a lot of maturity to adapt to the Premier League after limited experience at the Valley and hopes that he will continue to progress in the future.

"It’s a big step and he's done it a little bit differently to me," the ex-pro continued. "He's only played about five minutes for Charlton before he came. I played quite a few games in the lower league and knew a little bit about was I was doing. It was still a big leap [for me] to come to Arsenal.

"He's gone right in the deep end. He's an Arsenal lad as well so it's good to see. The fans relate to it - they can see his passion. He's still got a lot to learn but I see a lot of potential in him going on and being a top-class full-back.

"As long as he keeps trying to learn and progress, and not think he's made it when he's played 50 games, then he's got a real chance."

Has impressed after a car crash of a season last season

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/11/25/3555519/wenger-not-to-blame-for-faltering-arsenal-seamanShocker from Seaman

[Olivier's xmas twist]

David Seaman says Arsenal fans should vent their frustrations at the lack of investment in the club, rather than criticising manager Arsene Wenger.

The Gunners boss was subjected to jeers during the goalless draw with Aston Villa on Saturday evening with a section of the travelling supporters chanting 'you don't know what you're doing' when he substituted Olivier Giroud for Francis Coquelin in the closing stages.

But former Arsenal goalkeeper Seaman, who won the Premier League under Wenger in both 1998 and 2002, said the club would not be able to find another manager of his calibre.

And he insists the Frenchman is doing a good job on a budget which is not as high as many rival clubs.

He told Goals on Sunday: "Arsene Wenger was getting a load of stick from the Arsenal fans and there was a chant going round 'can we have our Arsenal back?'

"Say they didn't have a manager at the moment and Arsene Wenger was out there with his track record, they would take him any day.

"For me it's not the manager where the restrictions are, it's the financial restrictions."
Heart

Seaman has seen Arsenal sell the likes of Robin van Persie, Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri and Alex Song in recent years and feels it will be difficult to achieve success without retaining their top players.

And he said a bigger investment may be needed at board level to ensure the club's top performers are not tempted to move on.

Seaman added: "Losing your captains all the time - like Van Persie and Fabregas - is like when Patrick Vieira left. It takes the heart out of the team.

"We used to be able to keep our best players and that's why we were winning trophies, but at the moment we can't do that.

"What are people looking at Arsenal for? Are they looking to advance their careers? They're not looking to advance themselves financially because they know they can get more money elsewhere.

"It's going to be hard for them to attract players and what's happening is they're getting players in, making them into great players and then they're having to let them go.

"When Arsene came it was a given that they'd be in the Champions League all the time and we were winning things as well, but you can't do what they're doing at the moment and expect to win trophies."

http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,,12384_8281501,00.html

Just thought id post the full article.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Seaman added: "Losing your captains all the time - like Van Persie and Fabregas - is like when Patrick Vieira left. It takes the heart out of the team.

There really is no heart left - and that is what is really hard to stomach.

[Niall_Quinn]

There really is no heart left - and that is what is really hard to stomach.

A real kidney punch. We just don't have the guts for it any more. I've given up venting my spleen.

[Grebbo]

Seaman, Parlour, Wright, Adams.... they all state the obvious but for some reason they don't understand that in their day the only competition was Man U. It's A LOT harder now for Arsenal to win anything.

I agree this season will likely be a fuck up and our team is shite. BUT we finished 3rd last year only behind City and Manure and above Chelsea - does anyone expect Arsenal to finish any higher than 3rd? You could have Mourinho as boss of Arsenal and give him £50m to spunk and he still wouldn't do better than 3rd.

[Kano]

for seven years? i don't believe that. even if it was once where we were real challengers going into april/may then that would be something to cling onto, instead of a loop of mistakes.

[Grebbo]

Well we have challenged in that 7 years. The trouble now is we've won jack for so long that every year we will lose our best player because the grass is greener else where. This makes it impossible to achieve any kind of success.

If we'd have kept Cole, Fabregas, RVP, Nasri we'd be challenging right now for sure.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Seaman, Parlour, Wright, Adams.... they all state the obvious but for some reason they don't understand that in their day the only competition was Man U. It's A LOT harder now for Arsenal to win anything.

I agree this season will likely be a fuck up and our team is shite. BUT we finished 3rd last year only behind City and Manure and above Chelsea - does anyone expect Arsenal to finish any higher than 3rd? You could have Mourinho as boss of Arsenal and give him £50m to spunk and he still wouldn't do better than 3rd.

:gp:

[Fist of Lehmann]

for seven years? i don't believe that. even if it was once where we were real challengers going into april/may then that would be something to cling onto, instead of a loop of mistakes.

Interesting.

This is the number points from 1st we were at the end of March (taken from statto.com).

2011-2012 : 14
2010-2011 : 5
2009-2010 : 4
2008-2009 : 10
2007-2008 : 6
2006-2007 : 23
2005-2006 : 28 :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Statto.com :bow:

I have a feeling we're in 05/06 and 06/07 territory this year.

[Cripps_orig]

Statto.com :bow:I have a feeling we're in 05/06 and 06/07 territory this year.No chance. In both those seasons we finished top 4 and reached a final in another competition. Top 4 is gone this season and reaching a final looks unlikely

[Marc Overmars]

League Cup final this season tbh.

[Niall_Quinn]

The quality in the PL this year is at an all time low. Even the big 3 look lightweight. We can stumble into 4th again playing a mixture of abject shit and inconsistent but quality football. We've seen it every year, that's the one thing we have come to rely on - a lack of variation, zero surprises. We just have to watch out for an Everton or Newcastle tumbling into our spot by accident. This is a really shit league. We are capable of 4th.

[Kano]

Interesting.

This is the number points from 1st we were at the end of March (taken from statto.com).

2011-2012 : 14
2010-2011 : 5
2009-2010 : 4
2008-2009 : 10
2007-2008 : 6
2006-2007 : 23
2005-2006 : 28 :lol:

and then april starts. i mean sure, we've finished third a couple of times but given the gap from the top, it is only a surface stat.

[Kano]

Well we have challenged in that 7 years. The trouble now is we've won jack for so long that every year we will lose our best player because the grass is greener else where. This makes it impossible to achieve any kind of success.

If we'd have kept Cole, Fabregas, RVP, Nasri we'd be challenging right now for sure.

we haven't challenged once. not realistically. at no point could we look back and say 'ooh, that was a close one. we just missed out there.' always the same collapses at the same times.

[fakeyank]

we haven't challenged once. not realistically. at no point could we look back and say 'ooh, that was a close one. we just missed out there.' always the same collapses at the same times.

We were in with a shout till the last game in 07/08 season in which Dudu had his leg snapped. It was a distant shout in the last game where we needed both Chelsea and Utd to lose but at least we lasted till the last game. We were leading by up to 8 points up until February till Tiny decided to change all that. That game against Brum still makes me cry :crying:

[Fist of Lehmann]

and then april starts. i mean sure, we've finished third a couple of times but given the gap from the top, it is only a surface stat.

:lol: Hey man, you were the one who stipulated 'going into april/may'.

I was not racist against your comment, I was just interested to see exactly how not challenging we were for the last 7 years. The facts are just what they are. Disregard at will tbh.

[Kano]

yes ok pedantic one. stating 'going into april/may' also meant with a momentum that would carry through those crucial months to crunch time. so yes, statistically you are right about march :rolleyes:

i guess by now i should know that i have to state absolutely crystal clear before google comes back to haunt me.

even 07/08, we completely lost the plot and by the time we got to those last two months, any momentum and challenge to the others had been long lost.

[Marc Overmars]

We were in with a shout till the last game in 07/08 season in which Dudu had his leg snapped. It was a distant shout in the last game where we needed both Chelsea and Utd to lose but at least we lasted till the last game. We were leading by up to 8 points up until February till Tiny decided to change all that. That game against Brum still makes me cry :crying:

We were 4 points behind them going into the final day of 07/08. It was the game before that made it mathematically impossible, but yes that season is the only time we've looked strong enough to challenge, however no Arsenal challenge would be complete without a collapse and boy did we collapse.

[Grebbo]

we haven't challenged once. not realistically. at no point could we look back and say 'ooh, that was a close one. we just missed out there.' always the same collapses at the same times.

We definitely challenged the year when Gallas and co lost the plot at Birmingham. We were top of the league for 7 months IIRC.

[Xhaka Can’t]

All that matters is the here and now. And here and now, we are shit.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Kano]

We definitely challenged the year when Gallas and co lost the plot at Birmingham. We were top of the league for 7 months IIRC.
from march onwards (yes i know fist of lehman ffs) we collected something like 10 points til the end of the season.

i'm not sure who i hated more then, gallas or clichy.

[Marc Overmars]

Gallas. :lol:

What an absolute embarrassment.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

we haven't challenged once. not realistically. at no point could we look back and say 'ooh, that was a close one. we just missed out there.' always the same collapses at the same times.

2010-2011 We challenged that season, it was only after loosing the CC we crumbled like bitches, had we won that imo We'd have gone on to win the league.

[Özim]

We definitely challenged the year when Gallas and co lost the plot at Birmingham. We were top of the league for 7 months IIRC.
and yet ridiculously we ended up 3rd.

[Özim]

2010-2011 We challenged that season, it was only after loosing the CC we crumbled like bitches, had we won that imo We'd have gone on to win the league.
We were never going to win the CC and never going to win the league...why you ask? Simple the mentality is all wrong, you could see it from the moment we walked off the coach for the final, winners take big matches seriously, not like another Sunday afternoon kickabout.

People can make excuses about how we could have won this and could have won that, the fact is we took none of those opportunities which really shows we couldn't have won them, because the mental side of the game is also a very important part of winning and we totally lack this mental strength Wenger always preaches about.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We were never going to win the CC and never going to win the league...why you ask? Simple the mentality is all wrong, you could see it from the moment we walked off the coach for the final, winners take big matches seriously, not like another Sunday afternoon kickabout.

People can make excuses about how we could have won this and could have won that, the fact is we took none of those opportunities which really shows we couldn't have won them, because the mental side of the game is also a very important part of winning and we totally lack this mental strength Wenger always preaches about.

Thats nonsense. Easy to say that in Hindsight and if we were never going to win the CC then why was every Arsenal fan upset. nonsense to say that.

Everyone thought we would, we did not loose it because of poor mentality we lost it cause the keeper and defender had a mix up.

[Özim]

Thats nonsense. Easy to say that in Hindsight and if we were never going to win the CC then why was every Arsenal fan upset. nonsense to say that.

Everyone thought we would, we did not loose it because of poor mentality we lost it cause the keeper and defender had a mix up.
Why? Because fans wants to believe and because we were the bigger club with better players we thought we should......without any fight, desire and mental strength we we never going to win it.

The mistakes were due to lack of concentration and professionalism, something that's drummed into you by the club, the mental side of the game....this wasn't a one off either, it's a trend that's repeated itself many times.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why? Because fans wants to believe and because we were the bigger club with better players we thought we should......without any fight, desire and mental strength we we never going to win it.

The mistakes were due to lack of concentration and professionalism, something that's drummed into you by the club, the mental side of the game....this wasn't a one off either, it's a trend that's repeated itself many times.

No the mistakes were because the keeper and his defender never communicated at that point. You don't need a manager or a coach to tell you how to commuincate on the pitch.

Cheshey "leave it, its my ball"

Kos "ok"


Because fans wants to believe and because we were the bigger club with better players we thought we should......without any fight, desire and mental strength we we never going to win it.


Yeah your right, we don't have a right to think we could win it (i mean the players) But as fans we know we should be beating brum, we should be.

Not one person said before, we'd loose that game because we don't have the mental strength etc. like i said its easy to say it in hindsight.

[Grebbo]

Did anyone go to that CC final??

Man that must have been so shit.

:haha:

[Özim]

No the mistakes were because the keeper and his defender never communicated at that point. You don't need a manager or a coach to tell you how to commuincate on the pitch.

Cheshey "leave it, its my ball"

Kos "ok"Sorry but no, that's part of the mental side of the game.....lack of concentration, you tend to make mistakes when you're not focussed enough.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Sorry but no, that's part of the mental side of the game.....lack of concentration, you tend to make mistakes when you're not focussed enough.

It was the final of a cup, not a 3rd round fa cup tie. If you don't go out there and be motivated being in a final and with full concentration then you should not even be out there.

[Özim]

It was the final of a cup, not a 3rd round fa cup tie. If you don't go out there and be motivated being in a final and with full concentration then you should not even be out there.

Totally agree and on that basis we had no right to be there, the minute we walked off the coach with out t-shirts and carefree attitude it was clear we weren't focussed on the match....and guess what in the end we lost it. We thought we could just turn up and win it....what a shock it was when we got beaten.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Totally agree and on that basis we had no right to be there, the minute we walked off the coach with out t-shirts and carefree attitude it was clear we weren't focussed on the match....and guess what in the end we lost it. We thought we could just turn up and win it....what a shock it was when we got beaten.

:gp:

Can't disagree with any of that.

[Kano]

2010-2011 We challenged that season, it was only after loosing the CC we crumbled like bitches, had we won that imo We'd have gone on to win the league.
i'm struggling to find reasons to agree that challenging up until february is a challenge for the title.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

i'm struggling to find reasons to agree that challenging up until february is a challenge for the title.

K, fair point, but i believe up and till the CC we were challenging and would have had we won that cup.

[Xhaka Can’t]

K, fair point, but i believe up and till the CC we were challenging and would have had we won that cup.

That game certainly was a watershed for the season. But when we have faced watershed games we have almost always been found wanting. It cannot be dismissed as coincidence.

[Özim]

i'm struggling to find reasons to agree that challenging up until february is a challenge for the title.
This is all based on that very scientific theory of "2% away from domination"

[Xhaka Can’t]

Come on, give it a rest.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That game certainly was a watershed for the season. But when we have faced watershed games we have almost always been found wanting. It cannot be dismissed as coincidence.

True, very true.

[gooners]

i'm struggling to find reasons to agree that challenging up until february is a challenge for the title.

:lol:

the trouble with a rat race is that even if you win you are still a rat!

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

That game certainly was a watershed for the season. But when we have faced watershed games we have almost always been found wanting. It cannot be dismissed as coincidence.

the game was a watershed moment for wengers post invincibles era.

it was the moment the players and fans stopped believing in him.

we still haven't recovered to this day. the players realised we weren't winning anything with him here and pissed off after the carling cup final defeat, one by one.

record after carling cup final defeat: DDDWDDLWLLD

2 wins in 11.

first 5 games of following season:

DLLWL

1 win in opening 5 games.

that was the point he should have gone. it wasnt recoverable. but he remains.

[Cripps_orig]

Yup, should have walked after the 8-2

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3578170 Spot on from Robson. I hardly ever agree with him buts he's right here

[Ollie the Optimist]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3578170 Spot on from Robson. I hardly ever agree with him buts he's right here

stewart robson in holding a grudge and wanting attention shocker

[Cripps_orig]

Holding a grudge against who? :s and speaking the truth is hardly attention seeking

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3578170 Spot on from Robson. I hardly ever agree with him buts he's right here


There's no reason why they can't promote within. Terry Burton, the reserve-team boss, is excellent and Steve Bould are both candidates..."


Says it all really.

Robson was licking Wengers Arse only last season, saying he is the man or Arsenal and how we are luckying to have him.

Robson chats shite.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

IAN WRIGHT believes Arsene Wenger remains the man to take Arsenal forward — but he must shake up his backroom staff at the Emirates.

Gunners legend Wrighty was speaking following his former club’s humiliating penalty shootout defeat at the hands of League Two Bradford City in the Capital One Cup last night.

Arsenal boss Wenger is facing fresh scrutiny over his position, with his mis-firing squad sitting seventh in the table and 15 points off top spot.

Wright fears the input of assistant manager Steve Bould is being ignored by the Frenchman, despite being part of a mean Gunners defence under former manager George Graham.

Asked by Absolute Radio about Wenger’s future, Wrighty said: “I wouldn’t like to see him go, I’d like to see him bring people in that he’s going to listen to.

“I personally don’t feel that Steve Bould is getting his hands on the steering wheel in respect of the training as much as people think.

“The fact is the way the team are playing — and that we’ve come from a manager that was defensive from the front to back — it doesn’t look like to me like they are doing any defensive work at all.

“I just feel that Bould could be a scapegoat in all of this.

“The defence have been as poor as they’ve been in the last five, six years I’ve been watching them.

“All of a sudden if there’s a massive change, I think that’s an embarrassment to Arsene Wenger.

“There’s a lot of things happening at Arsenal that I think that people have got the right to know what’s going on.”

Wright is also concerned about the future of contract rebel Theo Walcott at the club.

The England winger can walk away on a free transfer next summer or be sold during the January transfer for a reduced fee.

And Wrighty believes either scenario would be a damaging loss to the club — but he could understand why a move to Manchester United would appeal to Walcott.

He said: “It would be a major loss.

“I feel that if Theo was playing last night, whatever people want to say about him, he would have done something in the game.

"But if Manchester United are genuinely in for Theo, which I think has been suggested for £8million, then that's it, he's gone.

“For me, if he’s got the opportunity to go somewhere like Manchester United with Robin van Persie, why would you stay?”

Absolute Radio’s Rock ‘N’ Roll Football with Ian Wright, Saturday’s from 5pm on 1215AM


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4694833/Ian-Wright-Arsene-Wenger-is-still-the-right-man-for-Arsenal.html#ixzz2Esyn3o5H

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Stopped reading here, tbh:


IAN WRIGHT believes Arsene Wenger remains the man to take Arsenal forward

Wrightie, great striker, but alwful pundit.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Stopped reading here, tbh:



Wrightie, great striker, but alwful pundit.

Give a week, he'll be saying Wenger out, give him 2 he'll be saying Wenger is the man.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nigel Winterburn told Sky Sports News that Arsenal supporters are unsure where their football club is headed.

The Gunners were beaten on penalties by League Two Bradford in Tuesday's Capital One Cup quarter-final, while a run of just two victories in their last seven Premier League games has left the Londoners sitting seventh in the table.

And one-time Arsenal left-back Winterburn says the Emirates outfit, who have not won a trophy since the 2005 FA Cup, must get back to winning ways to ease the growing pressure on manager Arsene Wenger.

"The fans do not know what direction Arsenal are going in," he said. "They were sold this dream that they had to move from Highbury to the Emirates - and raise ticket prices - to compete for the Premier League.

"But not only are they not doing that, but they are losing players before they have hit their peak, such as Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri and Robin van Persie. Arsenal are bringing good quality players in with the money - but they need to keep their best players to get stronger.

"Wenger is staying calm and saying to trust him but when your team is not winning it is hard to trust anybody; I still believe he is the right man but people are starting to doubt him and the only way he is going to change that is by getting his players fighting for trophies.

"However, the players have to show passion, prove that they are good enough - and as good as we are led to believe - and put in performances that make the supporters proud, as the pressure is going to increase with every defeat from now on."
Tie up

The Wenger-David Dein axis was credited with allowing Arsenal to sign top players and compete for silverware in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and Winterburn feels the Gunners are missing former vice-chairman Dein's influence in the boardroom.

But the ex-defender, who played 440 league games for the Gunners between 1987-2000, defended Wenger's decision to field a virtually full-strength side in the shock defeat to Bradford.

"I would have loved to have seen David Dein still at the club as he seemed able to bring the players to the football club that Arsene Wenger identified and tie up their contracts," said Winterburn.

"There must be something wrong if these players don't want to sign and want to let their contracts run down, and the only reason I can think of is because they have seen other top players leave."

Winterburn added: "If Arsenal went with a younger team against Bradford and lost people would have said: 'You missed a chance to win a trophy, why didn't you put out your strongest team?'.

"Arsene is desperate to win a trophy and so had to go with his strongest side, but it is just not happening for this team at the moment and the players will have to work very hard to get the supporters back on side."

http://www.skysports.com/skysportsnews/story/0,,19494_8328170,00.html

Spot on Nigel.

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3597947 Spot fucking on from Robson. Finally an ex player has the balls to say what all true gooners think of Wenger

[KSE Comedy Club]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3597947 Spot fucking on from Robson. Finally an ex player has the balls to say what all true gooners think of Wenger

Oh but he's a **** so therefore anything he says is bullshit.

Doest matter if he's dead right!

[Kano]

Oh but he's a **** so therefore anything he says is bullshit.
exactly. that is what was said wasn't it.

[Power n Glory]

Give a week, he'll be saying Wenger out, give him 2 he'll be saying Wenger is the man.

Wight didn't say 'Wenger is the right man for the job' in that piece.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wight didn't say 'Wenger is the right man for the job' in that piece.


"Wenger is staying calm and saying to trust him but when your team is not winning it is hard to trust anybody; I still believe he is the right man but people are starting to doubt him and the only way he is going to change that is by getting his players fighting for trophies.

Said it here.

[Power n Glory]

Said it here.

That's not what Wright said. That's Nigel Winterburn.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's not what Wright said. That's Nigel Winterburn.

Fine.


Asked by Absolute Radio about Wenger’s future, Wrighty said: “I wouldn’t like to see him go, I’d like to see him bring people in that he’s going to listen to.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Fine.

That's not what Wright said. That's santa.

[Cripps_orig]

That's not what Wright said. That's Nigel Winterburn.:haha: Charlie :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:haha: Charlie :bow:

:gp:

[Ollie the Optimist]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/article?contentId=3597947 Spot fucking on from Robson. Finally an ex player has the balls to say what all true gooners think of Wenger

this raises a very interesting and difficult question. who spreads more bullshit, goal.com or robson?

[Power n Glory]

Fine.

That's not the same as saying he's the Wright man for the job. I don't think anyone would like to see Wenger's reign end like this because it's pitiful.

[Cripps_orig]

this raises a very interesting and difficult question. who spreads more bullshit, goal.com or robson?I see you disagree with Robson then. Typical wenger lover. You must have loved the Bradford game

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's not the same as saying he's the Wright man for the job. I don't think anyone would like to see Wenger's reign end like this because it's pitiful.

Fair enough.

[Cripps_orig]

this raises a very interesting and difficult question. who spreads more bullshit, goal.com or robson?Where's the BS part?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

this raises a very interesting and difficult question. who spreads more bullshit, goal.com or robson?

Goal.com, its all made up BS tbh. Robson is a **** but he some of the things he says may be bitter but have truth to it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Where's the BS part?

Goal.com is all BS.

[Cripps_orig]

Goal.com is all BS.Ok and what's that got to do with Robson being spot on? Typical defence from the Wenger lovers coming out here :lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ok and what's that got to do with Robson being spot on? Typical defence from the Wenger lovers coming out here :lol:


This has nout to do with Robson. Just stating Goal. com is all BS. Robson did not talk to them, the got his quotes from somw where else like they always do.

[Cripps_orig]

Once again Charile has a shocker :lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Once again Charile has a shocker :lol:

From the guy who believes every word from goal.com :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

unlike Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers we (quite rightly so) have a closed ranks policy on what goes on in the dressing room and on the training ground.
Really depends which way you look at it, is Wenger a particurlarly a good delegator?......no i don't imagine he is.....the chief executive of the club was pretty much vetted by him which suggests he does wield too much influence on the club for a manager. However is he dictatorial in his approach?....No i don't think so, I don't imagine for a moment he refuses to listen to people or tries to have someone sacked for questioning his approach and I imagine he is probably quite prepared to listen to advice.....but there is a difference to listening to advice and taking it and that for me is certainly what he does not do.
Arsene Wenger doesn't strike me as an abrasive or ignorant person who dismisses any view point that's not his own, but I imagine he is of the mindset that "You may have a valid point but for better or worse I must stick to my principles", and i think he has become firmly entrenched in these principles of doing things in a certain way which i think he does with the best intentions but unfortunately it makes him seem stubborn and inflexible.
I think Dictator is though a term that does not apply to Arsene Wenger, yes he has far too much power and influence than any one man should have at the club but I think he almost sees this more as akin to being like Atlas he has been ceded this responsibility by disorganisation and disarray at the top with the departues of the likes of Edelman and Dein and i think he would look upon it as a personal failure to give up these responsibilities.....

[Kano]

Ok and what's that got to do with Robson being spot on? Typical defence from the Wenger lovers coming out here :lol:
robson on walcott


It wouldn’t worry me if Theo Walcott were to leave tomorrow, Theo Walcott, for me, is not a good footballer. He is an athlete who puts on a pair of football boots. Walcott is a ‘liability’ and should be sold by Arsenal this summer if he is asking for a wage increase

[KSE Comedy Club]

robson on walcott

Pretty much accurate.

Apart from us being able to sell him in the summer.

[Cripps_orig]

What's your point? A person can be wrong about something as he is about Theo and right about something else as he is about Wenger.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

What's your point? A person can be wrong about something as he is about Theo and right about something else as he is about Wenger.

So you defending Theo When robbo is wrong about him, makes you a Theo lover then eh?

[Cripps_orig]

Saying Robson is wrong about Theo which he clearly is as Theo is obviously a good player doesn't make me or anyone a Theo lover. Saying Robson is speaking BS about Wenger when its clear he's spot on makes you a Wenger lover. Can you see the difference?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Jesus wept.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Saying Robson is wrong about Theo which he clearly is as Theo is obviously a good player doesn't make me or anyone a Theo lover. Saying Robson is speaking BS about Wenger when its clear he's spot on makes you a Wenger lover. Can you see the difference?

I never Said that so stop chatting shit.


Goal.com, its all made up BS tbh. Robson is a **** but he some of the things he says may be bitter but have truth to it.

[Power n Glory]

unlike Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers we (quite rightly so) have a closed ranks policy on what goes on in the dressing room and on the training ground.
Really depends which way you look at it, is Wenger a particurlarly a good delegator?......no i don't imagine he is.....the chief executive of the club was pretty much vetted by him which suggests he does wield too much influence on the club for a manager. However is he dictatorial in his approach?....No i don't think so, I don't imagine for a moment he refuses to listen to people or tries to have someone sacked for questioning his approach and I imagine he is probably quite prepared to listen to advice.....but there is a difference to listening to advice and taking it and that for me is certainly what he does not do.
Arsene Wenger doesn't strike me as an abrasive or ignorant person who dismisses any view point that's not his own, but I imagine he is of the mindset that "You may have a valid point but for better or worse I must stick to my principles", and i think he has become firmly entrenched in these principles of doing things in a certain way which i think he does with the best intentions but unfortunately it makes him seem stubborn and inflexible.
I think Dictator is though a term that does not apply to Arsene Wenger, yes he has far too much power and influence than any one man should have at the club but I think he almost sees this more as akin to being like Atlas he has been ceded this responsibility by disorganisation and disarray at the top with the departues of the likes of Edelman and Dein and i think he would look upon it as a personal failure to give up these responsibilities.....

You see another side of Wenger when someone directly challenges. Look at the press reactions and how agrressive and stubborn he can be. I think he's a calm person in general but very dismissive if directly challenged. For example, I just can't understand why he's so reluctant to try Theo or Podolski in the centre but happy to try Gervinho there.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You see another side of Wenger when someone directly challenges. Look at the press reactions and how agrressive and stubborn he can be. I think he's a calm person in general but very dismissive if directly challenged. For example, I just can't understand why he's so reluctant to try Theo or Podolski in the centre but happy to try Gervinho there.

I don't necessarily agree with that, i think his press reactions are much more calm and measured than most other premiership managers. And to be fair there is a difference between offering advice and trying to cajole someone like the press do....like when they were asking about the subsitutions against Aston Villa, rightly so he made the point when does a manager have to justify his decisions to anyone....the fans have the right to criticise......but the manager doesn't have to explain himself to them or the press.
Don't get me wrong i am not a Wenger apologist, i think the guy has got himself into a rut and frankly I am not sure even how happy he is at the club anymore....but i still think deep down even if horribly twisted and misguided this man does seem himself as a man of principle and integrity and walking away would be a betrayal of what he believes in, but as i firmly believe he will do what he regards to be the right thing and see out his contract and leave in 2014 unless he is told beforehand that his services are no longer required and can you honestly see that happening?.

[Cripps_orig]

EMMANUEL PETIT claims top stars will no longer want to join Arsenal — because the club never wins anything.
The former France midfielder, who won the Double with the Gunners in 1998, believes the North London club is now seen as a stepping stone to bigger things.
Arsene Wenger’s side have not won a trophy since lifting the FA Cup in 2005.
And Petit, 42, who spent three years at Arsenal before moving to Barcelona in 2000, said: “The big worry today is that even if Arsenal have the money who are they going to get to join the club now?
“The idea they have been giving off for seven years is that it’s a club which doesn’t win trophies and at the end of the season their best players will leave.
“The feeling is that Arsenal are creating a generation of players who will leave in the hope of going to another club in order to win something.”
Petit, however, is still backing boss Wenger to get the club out of this mess.
He says the Gunners have been unable to compete in the transfer market as the club funded its move from Highbury to the Emirates in 2006.
And Petit insists now those economic constraints have been loosened boss Wenger can put the club on a more equal footing with its rivals.
He said: “I’m still convinced Wenger’s the man for the job because over the last 15 years he has been a master-builder.
“He hasn’t won anything for seven years because since the club moved to the Emirates they’ve had to tighten their belts and sell their best players all the time.
“They also couldn’t get involved in overbidding in the transfer market.
“But now they have a fairly big surplus and so can compete again.”


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4696799/Emmanuel-Petit-Who-wants-to-join-a-team-of-losers.html#ixzz2F2gIX6ym

Hes right in that no top players will come to us but woefully wrong about the rest

[Cripps_orig]

GEORGE GRAHAM admits he cannot see Arsenal EVER winning the title again.
The Highbury legend believes his old club have fallen too far behind their big-spending rivals.
And he claims his once-great Gunners are now happy to just settle for finishing fourth every season.
Graham — who won three titles with the club as a player and manager — delivered his damning verdict at the end of a disastrous week for the fallen North London giants.
Current boss Arsene Wenger and his stars are licking their wounds after being knocked out of the Capital One Cup quarter-finals on Tuesday by League Two Bradford.
It is now getting on for eight years since Wenger won a trophy and almost nine since he last lifted the Premier League crown.
Graham said: “Whether I like it or not, the club are quite happy to finish in the top four.
“They have been doing that for the last 15 or 16 years. That seems to be the objective.
“Let’s be honest, they are not serious challengers for the Premier League. So finishing in the top four, I think the club are quite happy with that.
“I don’t think Arsenal are ever going to compete with Manchester City, Chelsea and Manchester United.
“I thought they could have competed with United because they don’t spend the money the other two do.
“But Arsenal are not going to compete with them either.
“They have got a structure at the club on transfers and wages. They are very strict on those.
“They have more or less said to fans that is the way they are going to run the club.
“They can still pick up cups and qualify for Europe. But will they win the Premier League title again? I can’t see it.”
Graham was in the Arsenal team that won the Double in 1971. As manager he celebrated titles in 1989 and 1991.
Wenger took over as manager in 1996 and guided them to the Double in 1998 and 2002 as well as a further Prem crown in 2004.
But the trophy cabinet has remained unopened since he led Arsenal to a shootout win over Manchester United in the 2005 FA Cup Final.
Wenger’s prudence may have enabled the Gunners to build a new stadium and state-of-the-art training complex.
But an increasing number of Arsenal fans are becoming fed up with their club’s failure to win a trophy and keep hold of their best players.
Graham added: “When was the last time Arsenal broke the transfer record? I think it was 1938.
“Manchester United seem to buy players at £25-30million and they mix it up a little bit.But Arsenal don’t do that.
“In the past Arsene’s teams have played some of the best football I have ever seen. It was breathtaking.
“But the quality of players there now is inferior to the players he used to have.
“And I don’t care how good a coach or manager you are, you need good players to win things.”


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4696873/George-Graham-Well-never-win-title.html#ixzz2F2h89ykp

Come back George. All is forgiven

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Come back George. All is forgiven

So he can't see us winning the title ever again. So he is giving us no chance whoever the manager is.

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENAL legend Nigel Winterburn has revealed Arsene Wenger will not spend the big bucks — as the club cannot afford it.
The under-pressure Gunners board are suggesting that £50MILLION is to be made available in January.
And they say manager Wenger will be able to spend it all on one player if he wants.
But that is not what Winterburn says he heard at the Emirates recently.
The former left-back, who won the Double under Wenger in 1998, said: “I was with Arsene three or four weeks ago doing a Q&A at Arsenal and he was asked about buying a £30m player.
“He was saying ‘We can’t afford to do that’. That surprised me a little bit.
“He was saying ‘£30m in transfer fees, with wages you’re probably looking at another £25-30m. We could not compete on that level’.”
But Winterburn, who played 584 Arsenal games between 1987 and 2000, is convinced no top players want to join now anyway.
He said: “If you are talking about a £30m player — Manchester City would also be going for him, maybe Manchester United and maybe Chelsea.
“Right now he’s not coming to Arsenal.”

Former England defender Winterburn is convinced that Robin van Persie’s decision to join Manchester United in the summer sent out a warning.
He said: “Why are the players saying ‘You know what? I’m going to wait until my contract runs out and see what happens?’
“Arsene Wenger would tell you they are not trying to sign those players too late and that negotiations start with two years to go.
“But maybe they need to start even earlier.”
Winterburn also warned the Arsenal board they were sitting on a powder-keg — and the fuse has been burning for a while.
He said: “The frustration is not just about this season but from the last two or three seasons.
“The vision that they were sold when they moved to the Emirates was that they had to move there to compete with the top teams.
“A lot of the supporters are feeling that we are now slipping even further behind those teams.
“Why are the top players leaving? Is it because those top players believe we are not moving in the right direction?
“Is it because the people at the top are not able to secure the services of the very top players?
“It is becoming so frustrating for those supporters. And more than a few are starting to feel that Arsene Wenger will not change his ways and maybe it is Arsene Wenger.
“They have quality players and they have to stand up and be counted as they are starting to be questioned as much as Wenger — and the board as well.
“Arsenal have not won anything for seven years now — and they really are under pressure.”


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4696829/Nigel-Winterburn-We-cant-afford-to-buy.html#ixzz2F2hbeiLk

We cant afford £30m on one player? Wtf? Whats the point of moving to the new stadium then?

[Cripps_orig]

So he can't see us winning the title ever again. So he is giving us no chance whoever the manager is.
Pretty much

That is what Wenger has done to us

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We cant afford £30m on one player? Wtf? Whats the point of moving to the new stadium then?


The former left-back, who won the Double under Wenger in 1998, said: “I was with Arsene three or four weeks ago doing a Q&A at Arsenal and he was asked about buying a £30m player.
“He was saying ‘We can’t afford to do that’. That surprised me a little bit.
“He was saying ‘£30m in transfer fees, with wages you’re probably looking at another £25-30m. We could not compete on that level’.”
But Winterburn, who played 584 Arsenal games between 1987 and 2000, is convinced no top players want to join now anyway.
He said: “If you are talking about a £30m player — Manchester City would also be going for him, maybe Manchester United and maybe Chelsea.
“Right now he’s not coming to Arsenal.”

makes sense. This no money thing seems to be coming out all of a sudden.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

State of the art training facility?! Wow, just wow!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

George Graham, the man who had us playing the most absymal football known to mankind (he even makes Tony Pulis seem like a facilitator of total football) and whose ambition was to try and rip off the club by receiving bungs to give us recommendations to buy rubbish like Pal Lydersen.....Wenger may be misguided but at least he's not a crook.
Content to finish 4th for 15/16 years?....funny i thought we'd won three league titles, four fa cups and reached two european finals in that time......don't get me wrong i think the point he is making is sound i think we have been content to finish 4th since moving to the Emirates but that wasn't 15/16 years ago.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

George Graham, the man who had us playing the most absymal football known to mankind (he even makes Tony Pulis seem like a facilitator of total football) and whose ambition was to try and rip off the club by receiving bungs to give us recommendations to buy rubbish like Pal Lydersen.....Wenger may be misguided but at least he's not a crook.
Content to finish 4th for 15/16 years?....funny i thought we'd won three league titles, four fa cups and reached two european finals in that time......don't get me wrong i think the point he is making is sound i think we have been content to finish 4th since moving to the Emirates but that wasn't 15/16 years ago.

:haha:

[Xhaka Can’t]

GG was a great manager in his time but whose time passed in the mid 90s. Signings like Wright and Seaman became signings like Selley and Kiwomya.

[Özim]

George Graham, the man who had us playing the most absymal football known to mankind (he even makes Tony Pulis seem like a facilitator of total football) and whose ambition was to try and rip off the club by receiving bungs to give us recommendations to buy rubbish like Pal Lydersen.....Wenger may be misguided but at least he's not a crook.
Content to finish 4th for 15/16 years?....funny i thought we'd won three league titles, four fa cups and reached two european finals in that time......don't get me wrong i think the point he is making is sound i think we have been content to finish 4th since moving to the Emirates but that wasn't 15/16 years ago.

Sorry but that's a load of nonsense, the guy gave us some great times, brought some brilliant players in and his team was the backbone of AW's first championship team, in addition when we won the title and in particular the 2nd title under him we were very exciting to watch.

Perhaps the football wasn't great after that, but he still delivered some unbelievable results and trophies against the odds.

He's right about the club though (and this includes the manager) top 4 is all they're interested in, so we have a big new stadium now, big f*cking deal would you rather watch a top team in a small stadium or an average one in a large new stadium?

As for the money, if we got rid of the dead wood taking up our resources (the crocks and rubbish) we'd have more funds available, trouble is the manager wastes money on these guys and then we can't get rid.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

liverpool, spurs, city, united, chelsea all have the same problem with players that are not good enough clogging up their wage bill...it's not a problem singular to Arsenal....it's a problem endemic of sickeningly high wages that has eked it's way into the game. Don't get me wrong Wenger has a ridiculous wage policy and often rewards undeserving players, but do we know how responsible he is for these contract negotiations I know what we are meant to believe is that he pretty much single-handed runs the club as the ultimate Autocrat but honestly?....you think there are that many hours in a day.

Load of nonsense?...so Graham wasn't a crook then, he wasn't guilty of receiving bungs....I know it's an ad hominem attack but i think he's the last man who should be lecturing anyone. Yes he achieved some brilliant things at the club, but the legacy he left was a club floundering in mid-table with a squad with a drinking culture.....we know that even in his time the board were reluctant to release transfer and wage funds...don't remember him walking as a matter of principle.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't understand the need to pit one manager against another or seek to revise history and rubbish one manager's record to support an agenda of supporting the other.

Both GG and AW were great managers and provided us with some incredible 'Highbury Highs'*. However both their time have passed, I respect them both and am grateful for all the great times both brought to our Club.

* I blame Roger Daltry - we never had another high after that dirge.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

i agree to an extent, but as i say i don't have a great deal of time or respect for George Graham as a man......I never forgave him for trying to cheat the club to line his own pockets....where as Wenger despite the fact that he is a has been is a man of much more honor and integrity that George Graham would ever be capable of.

[Özim]

I don't think those clubs have got the problem to the same extent as we have (in addition City and Chelsea can afford it), if you look at the rubbish we have, I mean the likes of Chamakh, Squillaci, Denilson, Bendtner, Gervinho, Ramsey, Fabianski, Djourou, Santos, Park (some are on loan but still on our wage bill) and add to that the crocks in the form of Gibbs, Diaby, Rosicky that's an awful lot of players and an awful lot of money wasted, none of the other clubs mentioned have anywhere near as many as us...and this is crippling for us.

You can add to that the error prone Koscielny, the cavalier Vermaelen who's defending is naive at best (do we throw Frimpong into this?) and you can start to see the problem.

The salaries are also all based around Wengers idea that everyone should be on similar amounts to avoid an squad discontent, which neither works nor has proved a wise move.

He was guilty of the bung yes, but people make mistakes and as long as they learn from them they deserve a 2nd chance (some would argue someone who has been there and learnt from his mistakes is the perfect person to give advice on the subject). Perhaps his time was up when it all ended, but look at his achievements, much of the time we were unfancied for success and upset the odds, the drinking culture was not one of Graham's flaws but an issue which was deeply ingrained in English culture (and to some extent remains to be today outside sport). In those days we never really seemed to have money and the money certainly wasn't in the game to the same extent, we accepted we couldn't spend but at least we showed signs of heart and desire on the pitch from time to time, no passioneless, soul less football with no real direction.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Load of nonsense?...so Graham wasn't a crook then, he wasn't guilty of receiving bungs....I know it's an ad hominem attack but i think he's the last man who should be lecturing anyone. Yes he achieved some brilliant things at the club, but the legacy he left was a club floundering in mid-table with a squad with a drinking culture.....we know that even in his time the board were reluctant to release transfer and wage funds...don't remember him walking as a matter of principle.

Spot on

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/5363340.stm

[Özim]

Spot on

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/5363340.stm
Let's hope you never make a mistake in your life then, because if you do maybe noone will take you seriously again when you give advice. Beckham made mistakes in his career and having learnt from them he's now a respected figure....it's when you make mistakes and don't learn from them that there's a problem.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Let's hope you never make a mistake in your life then, because if you do maybe noone will take you seriously again when you give advice. Beckham made mistakes in his career and having learnt from them he's now a respected figure....it's when you make mistakes and don't learn from them that there's a problem.

Just stating facts. The man is no saint as you make him out to be. And that is not a mistake what he did. He knew what he was doing and was happy to do it.

[Özim]

Just stating facts. The man is no saint as you make him out to be. And that is not a mistake what he did. He knew what he was doing and was happy to do it.
I never said he was a saint, however I'm not going to keep talking about something that happened 17 years ago.

Yes it was a mistake, just because you know what you're doing it doesn't mean it's not a mistake, sometimes you make the wrong choice in a given situation but it doesn't mean you should be punished for the rest of your life for it. Obviously it does depend on what you've done sometimes, but hell it's only money but if you had that kind of money dangled in front of you would you say no just like that?

IMO this does not in any way stop him from giving his point of view on this subject.

[Cripps_orig]

Former Arsenal striker Ian Wright has accused Arsene Wenger of failing to truthfully address the club's current plight and believes any other manager would have been sacked for going so long without success. Wright says Wenger "does not tell the truth" when assessing his team's performances and also branded supporters of the 63-year-old "deluded" for standing by him throughout the club's barren spell. Wenger is facing one of the toughest spells of his 16 years at the Arsenal helm following the shock Capital One Cup penalty shoot-out defeat at npower League Two Bradford on Tuesday night and inconsistent Barclays Premier League form. The Frenchman, 63, has not delivered a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005, and Wright believes that record in itself would have seen anyone else shown the door. Speaking to Absolute Radio's RocknRoll Football show, Wright said: "I wouldn't say 'surely he has to go', but it is a unique position he's in because I think any manager in any country in any world with a record like this and no prospects of light at the end of the tunnel, they would've been gone. "People are holding onto the fact to what Arsene has done, and people are saying he is going to tarnish what he has done, but I don't think that will ever happen. "However, it is a long way back. "I feel there are a lot of deluded Arsenal fans who are out in the wilderness still saying 'in Arsene we trust' and stuff like that." Wright, who lost his status as Arsenal's record goalscorer to Thierry Henry, believes there needs to be clarity on the way forward for Wenger's squad. "You hear him doing interviews afterwards saying, 'I have got a great team with a great spirit', but we are not seeing that," Wright said. "He does not tell the truth for me, he does not say what is happening. "What is going on? Have you got any money to spend or haven't you? Is it the fact the board are giving you the money and you are not spending? "Is that too hard a question to answer for Arsenal?" Another article from Wrighty that is spot on

[fakeyank]

Another article from Wrighty that is spot on

:gp:

Pretty much anyone with intelligence above 12 knows that AW needs to be sacked.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Another article from Wrighty that is spot on

The same guy who only a few days said he was still the right man for the job?

Wright :haha: chats the biggest load of bollox ever.

[Power n Glory]

The same guy who only a few days said he was still the right man for the job?

Wright :haha: chats the biggest load of bollox ever.

Again, that was Nigel Winterburn not Ian Wright.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: you know its gone pete tong when PnG starts hurling abuse.

:rose: a toast for the great man himself.

god rest your soul.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Read it again. He said i don't want him sacked.


Asked by Absolute Radio about Wenger’s future, Wrighty said: “I wouldn’t like to see him go, I’d like to see him bring people in that he’s going to listen to.