Match Reaction vs Soton (away)

[milla]

Title challenge :rose:

Sack Wumger, shit manager. :censored:

[Niall_Quinn]

More of Wenger's negative bullshit that he's introduced this season. This team is better than Wenger's ability to manage it.

[RomfordPele]

Didn't watch the game after I saw team sheet. Knew it would only wind me up.

Happy with the point to be honest, keeps us in contention for 4th.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Arteta was diabolical and has been for a long time. Just runs around in circles now.

Definitely need to replace him in the summer.

[Ollie the Optimist]

shite first half and poor defending for second goal. one plus though is Mesut Ozil. he was outstanding. poor result but lets face it, we weren't going to win every game. need to go on another superb run again. thats our first drawn game since Chelsea. pretty good run that.


oh and city drew there also. crap result, and lots of work needed on training ground before palace. huge run coming up. Up the Arsenal

[gunnerrrrr]

Kneejerk or not, Wenger should leave at the end of the season.
To his (or Steve Boulds) credit we are top of the league for now....but fuck me the ticket prices, average footballers, poor tactics, shit play and 8 years or is it 9 year and counting of zero trophies should surley mean he needs to just fuck off.

Tonight was purely on him.. awful awful team balance... still didnt change it when it was clear as fuckign day it wsnt working and then the three subs....lol you can not make that up...diabolical.

Draw may as well be a loss with our run of games coming up.

[Munchies]

Shit first half, done fuck all in .

Flamini and Arteta as the 2 midfielders has NEVER worked this season, why does Wenget persist with it ?

Toothless upfront, so why wait until 88 mins to bring on Podolski ?

Shit tactics throughout the game.

Ozil played good though, and Kosc.

[fakeyank]

This is the reason we will finish 3rd at best.. we didnt even play the first half and I can only blame AW for that. If you get paid 7 million quid to manager a team, you better fire them up for matches like these.

PL :rose:

[Globalgunner]

If you play like Monkeys, you're likely to be rewarded with peanuts. We didn't even deserve the point.

[Munchies]

Not buying a striker in the summer has also been what will cost us the title really.

There's no movement, it's all static. This is how vital Feo is to our team.

Had around £40m left, (from the supposed £70m Gazidis said we had, and only spent £32m of) so why didn't we spend it ?

[milla]

Arteta was diabolical and has been for a long time. Just runs around in circles now.

Definitely need to replace him in the summer.

Arteta has always been poor against mobile/dynamic team. He should never start this game, looks unfit IMO.

Flamini was stupid with 2 footed tackled but that was never sent off. He didn't catch the player and won the ball first.

Lastly wtf was Wumger thinking? fekin cook! :angry:

[Ollie the Optimist]

This is the reason we will finish 3rd at best.. we didnt even play the first half and I can only blame AW for that. If you get paid 7 million quid to manager a team, you better fire them up for matches like these.

PL :rose:


yeah cos Fergie or mourinho etc win every single match. bad result tonight but lets not go overboard. we're still top (for now) and at worst at the weekend will be 1 point behind. hardly time to call for Wenger to be sacked.

[Darknight02]

Terrible terrible first half performance with a completely inept and negative team selection.

Played right into their hands. No urgency, no pressing and no hassling in the first half. Southampton players were under no pressure and passing it around at will. Of course that will build confidence for them.

Wenger has to take the blame for that team selection.

Why oh why is Podolski not being trusted? If you don't start him at least give him 22 minutes (haha!) to try and make a difference.

We conceded two really poor goals. Both down to terrible defending.

After going down to ten men and considering that Southampton could have been 3-0 up at the end of the first half, you'd take a point.

I don't think our title challenge is over.

But hopefully this result brings us back down to Earth now.

Gotta pray that this week's results go for us.

Criminal chance to put some daylight before the February and March runs wasted.

Perhaps this will at least spur Wenger into action in the January transfer market.

[Marc Overmars]

Shit performance but I'll take the point given how the match panned out.

Always disappointing to concede top spot, especially as we've lead almost the whole way. These results can happen so I'm not overly downbeat, Southampton is a tricky game and City dropped points here too.

Need a response against Palace and a convincing one as well. Performances have been fairly stale for a while now but we've been getting the results, lets hope this is a kick up the arse.

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought Ramsey was fit? What happened to Jack, is he injured? Arteta can't play with Flamini beside him in the middle. Unfortunately the only person who doesn't know that is Wenger. What will he have to say about this I wonder? Lacked a little bit sharpness? Why doesn't he ever say lacked a little bit clue about tactics?

[Power n Glory]

Shit first half, done fuck all in .

Flamini and Arteta as the 2 midfielders has NEVER worked this season, why does Wenget persist with it ?

Toothless upfront, so why wait until 88 mins to bring on Podolski ?

Shit tactics throughout the game.

Ozil played good though, and Kosc.

Flams and Arteta has only worked once and that was the first game against Napoli. Since then, we've seen it a few times and we've looked really bad and I would have thought Wenger would have seen enough of the combination.

Hats off to Ozil. Even though we lost, I saw him at least attempt to really bring the game to Southampton. Running with the ball and trying to will something to happen.

Giroud is shit! Gnarby shouldn't be playing either. He had that one great game but that's it for him. I don't see how he can get starts ahead of Podolski from here on. He's still young and has time.

Was Rosicky fit? He should have played instead of Arteta.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arteta has always been poor against mobile/dynamic team. He should never start this game, looks unfit IMO.

Flamini was stupid with 2 footed tackled but that was never sent off. He didn't catch the player and won the ball first.

Lastly wtf was Wumger thinking? fekin cook! :angry:

Yes, Wenger is a right chef!

[Ollie the Optimist]

now reports from goal.com that ramsey is out for another 6 weeks with a tendon problem

[Munchies]

now reports from goal.com that ramsey is out for another 6 weeks with a tendon problem

Rushed back too soon ?

Fucking hell :ilt:

[JonasTC]

We werent that bad i think. Giroud and Arteta just decided not to show up and that put pressure on everybody else.

Özil had a good performance, had a couple of 42m moments, hopefully that will make the haters appreciate him a bit more.

Once again the ref is not a fan, his mistakes led to the first goal, Mert didnt even touch him at the freekick that led to a goal were Fonte were clearly pulling Monreal down. Southampton 12 freekicks no cards (or i think they got one in the end?), Arsenal 4 freekicks 1 yellow and 1 red.... Did we have a case when Giroud were pulled down? Didnt see it because the stream lagged.

To look at the bright side:

Mertescielny partnership havent lost in 2 years :bow:

[fakeyank]

yeah cos Fergie or mourinho etc win every single match. bad result tonight but lets not go overboard. we're still top (for now) and at worst at the weekend will be 1 point behind. hardly time to call for Wenger to be sacked.

No, they dont.. but their players turn up for every game. Our first half was pathetic and we didnt seem interested. I do not see Fergie and Mourinho's teams coming out, as if they are playing the sunday league

[Niall_Quinn]

yeah cos Fergie or mourinho etc win every single match. bad result tonight but lets not go overboard. we're still top (for now) and at worst at the weekend will be 1 point behind. hardly time to call for Wenger to be sacked.

100% down to the manager tonight. Yet again we see fear from him when we need a bit of fire. Negative team selection, subs pathetic beyond belief.

[Niall_Quinn]

now reports from goal.com that ramsey is out for another 6 weeks with a tendon problem

Another triumph for the medical team?

[milla]

Should we tinker with SS role, swap role between Ozil and Cazorla? The former is so goal shy, he would never try to shoot or take on a player in the penalty area. Cazorla is so much better, two footed and will not hesitate to do what Ozil doesn't. :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Southampton 12 freekicks no cards (or i think they got one in the end?), Arsenal 4 freekicks 1 yellow and 1 red

The card bias is getting a bit crazy now. We often get kicked to bits (not this match, but in many others) and end up with more cards. Definite yellow for that foul on Ozil when he was driving into the box, ignored. Would have been a yellow for one of ours all day long.

[Ollie the Optimist]

No, they dont.. but their players turn up for every game. Our first half was pathetic and we didnt seem interested. I do not see Fergie and Mourinho's teams coming out, as if they are playing the sunday league


yeah except chelsea's defeats at stoke, sunderland etc were because chelsea didn't turn up. look tonight was a bad performance and AW got some things wrong, but given its the end of january and we are currently still top, he's probably getting a lot more right then wrong. Mourinho's teams have barely turned up at times this season so your point is bollocks quite frankly. all teams have off days, its making sure they are few and far between

[Power n Glory]

Should we tinker with SS role, swap role between Ozil and Cazorla? The former is so goal shy, he would never try to shoot or take on a player in the penalty area. Cazorla is so much better, two footed and will not hesitate to do what Ozil doesn't. :coffee:

Not today. Ozil showed some drive and guts today. Took on a few players and went for a shot that got deflected on to the bar. He was really trying today. I don't think he was the problem today. Flamini and Arteta were awful and couldn't control the middle or win the ball back. Giroud was poor up front and we had no options when we got the ball forward.

[Master Splinter]

You can understand why both Flamini and Arteta started, with Rosicky, Wilshere and Ramsey out. But as the match went on and it became clear, once again, that they don't work together, that we especially didn't need them today and that an attacking change would really have turned it in our favour, Wenger's fascination with that dud of a combo became all the more psychotic.

Wenger's inflexibility and refusal to react to clear deficiencies on the pitch cost us, but we still had over ten minutes to get a winner when Flamini basically begged for a red card. He's useful in the odd game, but his being a non-footballer was eventually going to harm us.

Cazorla was probably the worst player on the pitch though. Just catastrophic in every area (apart from his goal). The full-backs were off their game too and Gibbs was missed again in quick-paced, high-intensity game. Wenger chooses the wrong games to play Monreal and rest Gibbs.

Koscielny, Mertesacker and Szczesny played as they have all season, but were let down by idiots around them tonight. Ozil did step it up in the second half though.

Hopefully, it's a one-off performance where nearly everything went wrong. Even then, we did get a point and could probably have nicked a win. You can't win every game, especially away from home, so they'll have to make up for this blip in the coming games.

For tonight though:

WUMger :doh:.

Flamini :doh:.

Cazorla :doh:.

10-0 against Palace will do on the weekend.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Arsene confirms Ramsey has had a set back. fuck

[milla]

Arsene confirms Ramsey has had a set back. fuck

About time we start playing Chambo as 2nd midfield IMO. :coffee:

[Globalgunner]

We haven't won shit in 9 years, yet Ollie still believes, the Cup is always half full and the waiter is on standby with the bottle. FYI Chelsea do lose occasionally, but they have a few pots to show for it.

[Niall_Quinn]

So we have Walcott and Ramsey out longer term, what about Rosicky and Wilshere? Please god don't say they are out for 2weeks! Now even flamini is out for 3 matches. All perfect timing.

[fakeyank]

yeah except chelsea's defeats at stoke, sunderland etc were because chelsea didn't turn up. look tonight was a bad performance and AW got some things wrong, but given its the end of january and we are currently still top, he's probably getting a lot more right then wrong. Mourinho's teams have barely turned up at times this season so your point is bollocks quite frankly. all teams have off days, its making sure they are few and far between

If Chelsea were top of the table with only 2 points separating the top 3 anytime after new year, you can bet your last dollar that his team wouldve turned up. Again, I will bring this up to you... it doesnt matter if we win or lose as long as we give 100% in every match. Ask yourself if we have today or even in the last few matches. Sure, we nicked some close matches recently but did our team play 100% in those games? Sooner or later, being a slacker catches up.

I dont care if we win the league or not, as long as the entire footballing staff give their all! All I am asking and I did not see that today or in the last few games... going into the run of fixtures that we are going into, this was a MUST turn up game, which unfortunately we did not! Wenger shouldnt be sacked for this, he just shouldnt be gifted another contract right now.

[Ollie the Optimist]

We haven't won shit in 9 years, yet Ollie still believes, the Cup is always half full and the waiter is on standby with the bottle. FYI Chelsea do lose occasionally, but they have a few pots to show for it.

so what if i think the cup is half full? thats our first draw since the chelsea game. we've taken 16 points out of 18 since losing to city and knocked spurs out the cup and safely in the 5th round. why the fuck would i think my glass is half empty and go mental at one draw? poor performance yes, I've already said I've thought that but holy fuck calling for him to be sacked etc now and going over the top in moaning is just downright stupid

[milla]

So we have Walcott and Ramsey out longer term, what about Rosicky and Wilshere? Please god don't say they are out for 2weeks! Now even flamini is out for 3 matches. All perfect timing.

Perfect time to crash isn't it? Wumger ain't signing anyone neither (except for himself), perfect timing IMO :coffee:

[Master Splinter]

FFS. Now even my speculation on potential Arsenal injuries comes true.

Number one fucking problem at the club.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Ramsey's season :rose:.

Midfield was the place where we had options too :lol:. Now we're down to just Arteta as a central midfielder.

Time to hijack the Cabaye move tbh.

And time for Draxler to come home.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah, Draxler is making sense now. But a bit pointless without a striker.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[milla]

Yeah, Draxler is making sense now. But a bit pointless without a striker.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

We still have Bendtner, much better striker than Giroud. :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

We still have Bendtner, much better striker than Giroud. :coffee:

Lol, if Giroud (who is off form but still scoring) gets injured we are fucked, fucked, fucked, fucked and fucked again.

[Letters]

This is the reason we will finish 3rd at best.. we didnt even play the first half and I can only blame AW for that. If you get paid 7 million quid to manager a team, you better fire them up for matches like these.

PL :rose:
The reason we'll finish 3rd is that the two teams we're trying to compete with have the infinite money cheat on.
We're top of the league, we've won our last 7 games, the first set back and everyone wets themselves.
Tsk.

[Globalgunner]

Lol, if Giroud (who is off form but still scoring) gets injured we are fucked, fucked, fucked, fucked and fucked again.

No we're not, we will make 4th place easily

[Xhaka Can’t]

The reason we'll finish 3rd is that the two teams we're trying to compete with have the infinite money cheat on.
We're top of the league, we've won our last 7 games, the first set back and everyone wets themselves.
Tsk.

I see what you're saying, but we can't afford performances like the one I haven't seen tonight.

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[Ollie the Optimist]

Arsene on signings this window "I hope to have something to tell you on friday"


i hope he does too. we brought monreal forward last year because of injuries, and he's been a superb signing, lets hope he does it again

[Letters]

I see what you're saying, but we can't afford performances like the one I haven't seen tonight.
I heard it was a poor performance and that's not good enough but it happens and it's just not true to say Mourinho teams never do this. I've seen him on telly this season after a poor result lamenting the performance and saying they didn't turn up. We're not going to win every game.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Arsene on signings this window "I hope to have something to tell you on friday"


i hope he does too. we brought monreal forward last year because of injuries, and he's been a superb signing, lets hope he does it again

If that something is his own contract extension, i hope for his sake that his address and phone number are not listed.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Agreed, but this is the type of game we needed to win. It is imperative for us to build up a cushion ahead of mad March. A crap run of results now could even endanger a top 3 finish.

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[Munchies]

Fuck off telling us on friday.

Just have everything confirmed and sealed before, you're leaving the door open for another team to come in and sign whoever you want ffs ala Higuain

[fakeyank]

I heard it was a poor performance and that's not good enough but it happens and it's just not true to say Mourinho teams never do this. I've seen him on telly this season after a poor result lamenting the performance and saying they didn't turn up. We're not going to win every game.

Again, its not the fact that we drew, its the fact that we didnt turn up. We didnt turn up against W. ham in the first half either. We didnt turn up against Villa in the first half. Why is this happening? That is my issue... sooner or later, this sloppiness was bound to catch up. Very few will complain if we give our all and then lose. But to go and play as if the first half didnt count, is criminal!

[Ollie the Optimist]

Again, its not the fact that we drew, its the fact that we didnt turn up. We didnt turn up against W. ham in the first half either. We didnt turn up against Villa in the first half. Why is this happening? That is my issue... sooner or later, this sloppiness was bound to catch up. Very few will complain if we give our all and then lose. But to go and play as if the first half didnt count, is criminal!


yeah you've got a point about poor first halves recently, except we did turn up against villa in the first half, we were superb in that half and went in 2-0 up. superb against spurs in the first half too. it was a bad performance today but lets not go overboard. if we lose/draw against palace then yes more questions should be asked but until then, lets treat this result as a one off, (if I'm right, the only big team to beat southampton either home or away is chelsea, city, united, liverpool all lost/drew) so they are capable of good results.

[Power n Glory]

The reason we'll finish 3rd is that the two teams we're trying to compete with have the infinite money cheat on.
We're top of the league, we've won our last 7 games, the first set back and everyone wets themselves.
Tsk.

That's untrue on tonight's evidence. Team selection was wrong and over the past month or so we've tried to get away with turning up to play for 5 minutes then going back to sleep. We did that tonight but and we've finally been punished. It's been coming and it's down to us. We can't blame City and Chelsea for today. That's a far stretch and a cop out.

[Marc Overmars]

For once I agree with Ollie. It's a disappointing result made poignant by the fact we're likely to be down to 2nd or possibly 3rd now, however we have bounced back with a string of wins every time it felt like the wheels could possibly come off. This side has earned the right for us to show them a little bit of faith.

Granted if we don't bounce back and beat Palace I'm cutting myself.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Interesting reactions....

I personally would like the manager to stay on, in spite of the result, but I did actually believe the reservations by some about whether he ought to were valid before today.

I was worried that City wouldn't slip up, when I should have been more worried that we would. I don't think the ARteta-Flamini is quite the dumb & dumber car crash of a duo people are painting here, nevertheless I have concluded many times that it doesn't generally serve us well. It certainly didn't today. Even more alarming was the general malaise and lethargy in the first half. It almost looked like a premier league team playing a conference side for the first 25 minutes.

You would hope this is an early 2014 wake up call, but in truth we may never recover the ground lost....and the onus becomes increasingly on taking points against our direct rivals which isn't something we typically do well.

I can't even be bothered to show consternation about the use or lack thereof of Podolski. Wenger has handled him pretty peculiarly since he signed him, and on it continues, whatever the reason for it is.

I hate to say it, but it is the sort of hole, Theo is good at getting us out of. Flamini is an idiot and he was bound to get his marching orders eventually. Arteta was careless and rusty but Flamini has been playing and to risk what he did was very foolish knowing the position we were in. Just win the ball without the ref having any decision to make whatsoever and stay on the field.

[Niall_Quinn]

The reason we'll finish 3rd is that the two teams we're trying to compete with have the infinite money cheat on.
We're top of the league, we've won our last 7 games, the first set back and everyone wets themselves.
Tsk.

But beating the infinite money cheat teams is what this is all about! And we can. Provided we play as if we have nothing to lose (which we don't) and everything to gain (which we do). This negative bullshit from Wenger is playing right into the hands of the infinite squads chasing us. First we made Everton look 100 times better than the really are and chucked 2 points. Now we've done the same against a tidy but by no means impressive Southampton. It's not about how many games we've won, or when we last lost. It's about this game tonight being an essential 3 points against opponents well within our capabilities that we must be making if we are to stand any chance.

[Power n Glory]

I think Wenger's starting to crack and I think we're about to see it all crashing down. Palace, Liverpool away and then Man Utd. Cup games against Liverpool and then Munich. Ramsey's injury comes at the worst time and that prick Flamini has just got himself suspended for 3 very important league games. If we don't buy in the transfer window, I think we'll be going into those games very deflated.

[Zak]

Arsene on signings this window "I hope to have something to tell you on friday"


i hope he does too. we brought monreal forward last year because of injuries, and he's been a superb signing, lets hope he does it again

Really?

I think he's average, we need another defender this window. We can't rely on BFG,Kos and TV for the rest of the season.

We need some physical presence in the centre of the park as well. Matuidi would be good and he's out of contract in the summer.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

The thought of Arteta facing the big teams makes me cry.

Awful player.

[Dein-machine]

its noticeable that the wumger rimmers (apart from ollie ) aren't saying much tonight. The last few months have been awful, pubbing results against shit teams which some of you seem to think is wonderful. No it isn't, it creates doubt & negativity. We can't string a complete performance together, we are sitting back on leads Italian style or starting against shit teams so negatively like tonight or Fulham. How many more times does he have to start Arteta & Flamini before he realises it doesn't work - he doesn't have the ability to learn from his mistakes. If we don't buy anyone is this window with the knowledge that we have virtually no front line & zero pace in the team then it should go down as one of Wumgers biggest crimes - please, please, please hold off on the new contract until he proves he can make changes & get the team playing in a more attacking way for 90 mins.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The last few months have been awful. :haha:

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[Dein-machine]

The last few months have been awful. :haha:



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Apart from the Spuds in the cup when have we played 2 decent halves in a game?

[JonasTC]

Apart from the Spuds in the cup when have we played 2 decent halves in a game?

We're #1

[Dein-machine]

We're #1

Wake up jonas - we're playing the worst football out of the top 4/5 teams & after tomorrow you won't have that to full back on.

[Niall_Quinn]

This season is about points more than it is performances. The performances (apart from the shambles against Everton and the joke tonight) have been efficient and have yielded the points. That's what average Utd and chav teams have done in the recent past. It'd be nice to have the performances too, but we're picking up the points at least. Which is why it's such a fuck off to have blown a comparatively straightforward 3 points tonight.

[selassie]

The reason we'll finish 3rd is that the two teams we're trying to compete with have the infinite money cheat on.
We're top of the league, we've won our last 7 games, the first set back and everyone wets themselves.
Tsk.

They are just better teams than us, of course it helps that they have been bankrolled but they have stronger FIRST XI's and much better squads.

I agree we will come third.

[selassie]

Ramsey had a setback and is ruled out for another 2 months? WTF was/is wrong with him in the first place? Honestly i am getting so sick of these injuries, we almost always have players out for f*cking months, are they misdiagnosed or something? It just baffles me.

[Munchies]

Ramsey had a setback and is ruled out for another 2 months? WTF was/is wrong with him in the first place? Honestly i am getting so sick of these injuries, we almost always have players out for f*cking months, are they misdiagnosed or something? It just baffles me.

He was over-played too much without being given considerate rest really.

Thigh strains are a result of fatigue really.

He got a setback due to the medical team not handling him properly.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

He was over-played too much without being given considerate rest really.

Thigh strains are a result of fatigue really.

He got a setback due to the medical team not handling him properly.

Dr Munchies :bow:

[AFC Leveller]

That was definitely the worst performance of the season and we didnt even deserve a point. However, we've been able to pub our way through games and we almost got lucky again when we were 1-2 ahead. Saints completely domanited us, ran more,passed better, created more chances and looked hungrier.

This team is all about containing and although its not pleasing on the eye, you canot say it doesnt work because we are still top of the league. However, i just fele that some of the players are simply not doing enough and only wake up when we are losing. Ozil was fucking terible first half but was a different man 2nd half, running at them, creating chances and looking like the world class player he is. The two DCMs is such a pussy approach, it doesnt get results and basically says to the other team "we're trying to contain you" which is not how the league leaders should approach games.

We missed Theo more than anyone (and Rambo too) for his running and ability to get goals. Noone was making any runs and the amount of times we gave the ball away was embarrassing. Arteta looked tired and slugish, we had an inform Pod on the bench and needed a win, why didnt the manager bring him on?

Anyway, the performance aside, we have done well overall this season and caling for the manager's head is a bit silly and really wide of the mark.

[Marc Overmars]

Ramsey had a setback and is ruled out for another 2 months? WTF was/is wrong with him in the first place? Honestly i am getting so sick of these injuries, we almost always have players out for f*cking months, are they misdiagnosed or something? It just baffles me.

We'll be out of everything by the time he's back.

Typical.

#number1problem

[Dein-machine]

This season is about points more than it is performances. The performances (apart from the shambles against Everton and the joke tonight) have been efficient and have yielded the points. That's what average Utd and chav teams have done in the recent past. It'd be nice to have the performances too, but we're picking up the points at least. Which is why it's such a fuck off to have blown a comparatively straightforward 3 points tonight.

Performances = points. Had we started last night, like we did the 2nd half = 3 points. The fact that we are consistently playing one good & one bad half is wengers negativity. Just play to attack & get bodies around the box, otherwise don't buy Ozil.

[selassie]

We'll be out of everything by the time he's back.

Typical.

#number1problem

Sad thing is this will probably happen MO.

I dunno, these big games seem to have come at the wrong time, to beat the likes of Bayern, Liverpool and even Man Utd we need our strongest XI out there IMHO, trust us to face the most crucial period when we have players dropping like flies.

I think we can get away with Ramsey being out if one of Jack or Rosicky is available, sure they don't offer Ramsey's goals, but they both offer energy.

Theo is the one we are/will really miss, as it stands we don't currently have a viable replacement for him who can reproduce his numbers.

[Bumble]

As has been said before we aren't going to win every game we play. a point is still a point. we have palace next who seem to keep winning and don't concede many since pukelis took over. If we don't beat Palace then perhaps we can go into melt down on this board. We are still top and City will need to play well to go above us tonight. Still plenty of games to go Chelsea and City aren't going to win every game either.

still think blaming the refs is an excuse, they aren't scoring the goals against us. Or stopping us scoring either.

also what city and the chavs are doing is not cheating. Cheating is breaking the rules, currently they aren't breaking the rules. Once FFP takes hold then we will see what they do.

[Ernesto]

Couldn't sleep last night

F'in Arsenal

[Globalgunner]

We all know that we wont win every game but yesterdays result wasnt because Southampton were that great. WE were that poor. We were never into the game until the 2nd half. Wenger made a selection that wasnt fit for purpose and still refused to change it. They equalised early in the 2nd half and Wenger made no changes until the 70th min.
What is all that about. He makes these errors and keeps repeating them, ad neaseum. Its as if it woould hurt his pride more to win, and admit that he made a mistake than to lose and keep face.
Another 3 years contract, another 3 years of what ifs. The only thing that gives me hope is that I am a fair bit younger than Wenger so odds are I will see another manager at Arsenal before I die. Hubris masked as intrinsic acumen

[Globalgunner]

Couldn't sleep last night

F'in Arsenal

So what if we had lost?

[Ernesto]

So what if we had lost?

Probably pull a sickie :crying:

[Ollie the Optimist]

holy fuck, anyone would think we are struggling to get in the top ten reading posts on here. most of those having a complete hissy fit over a draw are the same people who told us all summer that we wouldn't even get top four. this result is a bad one but it doesn't mean we aren't going to win the league or get top four etc, its a setback, we've responded well to set backs so far this season, i back the team to do that again. we've been top of the league pretty much every day since mid september, I'm not sure what more you want. we've knocked spurs out the cup, we are in the 5th round, currently sit top of the league and at worst going into february 1 point off top. who would have predicted that back in july?

[KSE Comedy Club]

As has been said before we aren't going to win every game we play. a point is still a point. we have palace next who seem to keep winning and don't concede many since pukelis took over. If we don't beat Palace then perhaps we can go into melt down on this board. We are still top and City will need to play well to go above us tonight. Still plenty of games to go Chelsea and City aren't going to win every game either.

still think blaming the refs is an excuse, they aren't scoring the goals against us. Or stopping us scoring either.

also what city and the chavs are doing is not cheating. Cheating is breaking the rules, currently they aren't breaking the rules. Once FFP takes hold then we will see what they do.
Of course it's cheating.

They don't buy players with money that they create as a club, they have an unlimited fund from a sugar daddy that they can spunk up the wall every window.

£30m on this player, £25m on that player and a back up for £28m, in pretty much every position. It's horseshit. Normal clubs cannot compete with them in terms of squad depth.

And if you think FFP will do anything then think again. They are already at it now. Citeh's revenue has increased by £40m this season - how?? They had loses of £60m last season and £98m the season before, they were shit in the CL and won fuck all but yet have managed to increase their commercial revenues to a point where they are within FFP rules.....

Bollocks!

PSG are the same, they've managed to increase their commercial revenue from £178m to £341m in 1 year!!
It was obvious what was gonna happen and now it is. The owners of these clubs do silly money deals via other companies they own to sponsor their 'projects'.

Oh and sellassie, the only reason they have strong squads is because they can buy who they want, how many they want for how much they want.

No one else can do that without going bankrupt.

[KSE Comedy Club]

holy fuck, anyone would think we are struggling to get in the top ten reading posts on here. most of those having a complete hissy fit over a draw are the same people who told us all summer that we wouldn't even get top four. this result is a bad one but it doesn't mean we aren't going to win the league or get top four etc, its a setback, we've responded well to set backs so far this season, i back the team to do that again. we've been top of the league pretty much every day since mid september, I'm not sure what more you want. we've knocked spurs out the cup, we are in the 5th round, currently sit top of the league and at worst going into february 1 point off top. who would have predicted that back in july?

I think it's more the way we dropped points last night that has people annoyed Ollie.

No way should we be playing arteta and flamini together, it's against our style and it doesn't work.

No way should poldi be on the bench after scoring 2 goals, and certainly not brought on at 89 fuckin mins!!

Wenger needs to learn to make changes earlier. It's always 70mins before any subs. Again it is a glimpse of the stubborn idiot of old and we're about to give him a new contract worth £24m ????

We didn't play like arsenal last night, it looked like the players just couldn't be arsed and we paid the price, that's not title wining mentality, and if it carries on then we won't be 1 point off the top by the end of the season - be more like 10 points.

[Letters]

That's untrue on tonight's evidence.
Why chose that one game? After 23 games we're top and if City win their game in hand we'll be at worst one point off the top.
If City go top then it'll be because if a run of 12 games where they've won 11, drawn 1. We've done remarkably well to stay top as long as we have.
We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last season.

We can't blame City and Chelsea for us dropping 2 points but City drew there too, every team drops silly points here and there. We're competing with sides who have infinite resources, it's very difficult. There's been a clear improvement since last season though, last year with a performance as I've heard last night's was we'd have lost. We're going in the right direction, I'm not sure what else you can ask of the manager or club.

[AFC Leveller]

Why chose that one game? After 23 games we're top and if City win their game in hand we'll be at worst one point off the top.
If City go top then it'll be because if a run of 12 games where they've won 11, drawn 1. We've done remarkably well to stay top as long as we have.
We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last season.

We can't blame City and Chelsea for us dropping 2 points but City drew there too, every team drops silly points here and there. We're competing with sides who have infinite resources, it's very difficult. There's been a clear improvement since last season though, last year with a performance as I've heard last night's was we'd have lost. We're going in the right direction, I'm not sure what else you can ask of the manager or club.

Thats what we are up against and thats why we'll probably not win the league. We cannot win 10+ games on the spin, we dont have the players or goals and when you consider that City have improved their away record and their players seem to be gelling together more and more, its gonna be hard.

Id love a draw tonight but i can honestly see them winning 0-3, they have so much firepower and create umpteen chances per game.

We'll do well to be up there with them this season.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Thats what we are up against and thats why we'll probably not win the league. We cannot win 10+ games on the spin, we dont have the players or goals and when you consider that City have improved their away record and their players seem to be gelling together more and more, its gonna be hard.

Id love a draw tonight but i can honestly see them winning 0-3, they have so much firepower and create umpteen chances per game.

We'll do well to be up there with them this season.

didn't we go on a 11 game winning streak after the villa game? since chelsea, we have played 8, winning the first 7 games, which included spurs and newcastle away (tough place to go this season) we can put some very good winning runs together.

[Letters]

didn't we go on a 11 game winning streak after the villa game? since chelsea, we have played 8, winning the first 7 games, which included spurs and newcastle away (tough place to go this season) we can put some very good winning runs together.
We've done very well this year but we're competing against teams who don't need to worry about injuries, don't need to worry about fatigue. They can just pull more £40m players off the bench and on they go. There's been a clear improvement this year, we're going in the right direction, but ultimately I don't see how we can win the league against teams who have such impressive squads.
I don't see winning the title as the criteria for success this year.

[AFC Leveller]

We did and that was why we are top of the league but City seem to be hititng form right now and have a full squad of quality internationals to choose from. We have played OKAY for about 6 games now and although we won, yesterday was a reminder that we cannot continue to play badly and win all the time. To top it all off, we have 2 of our better goal getters out injured (Theo and Rambo). had those two been fit yesterday then id bet you we'd have won.

[AFC Leveller]

We've done very well this year but we're competing against teams who don't need to worry about injuries, don't need to worry about fatigue. They can just pull more £40m players off the bench and on they go. There's been a clear improvement this year, we're going in the right direction, but ultimately I don't see how we can win the league against teams who have such impressive squads.
I don't see winning the title as the criteria for success this year.

Aguero missed about 6 games for them but they still won every game without him because they had 28m Djeko, 18m Negredo, 15m Navas, 24m Silva etc to choose from. We lost Theo and there goes ur only outlet/pace. Its not realistic to expect us to compete with them right now.

[JonasTC]

We did and that was why we are top of the league but City seem to be hititng form right now and have a full squad of quality internationals to choose from. We have played OKAY for about 6 games now and although we won, yesterday was a reminder that we cannot continue to play badly and win all the time. To top it all off, we have 2 of our better goal getters out injured (Theo and Rambo). had those two been fit yesterday then id bet you we'd have won.

You keep talking about City being this amazing mythical creature who does nothing wrong and Arsenal are doing "okay"... Have you even seen City play? They were lucky to win at Swansea, Newcastle, WBA and Liverpool, won 1-0 over palace and had a corrupt ref help them to win over us, in their "amazing" 11 game run, yet when we win the same kind of games, we're doing "okay". Makes sense.

[AFC Leveller]

You keep talking about City being this amazing mythical creature who does nothing wrong and Arsenal are doing "okay"... Have you even seen City play? They were lucky to win at Swansea, Newcastle, WBA and Liverpool, won 1-0 over palace and had a corrupt ref help them to win over us, in their "amazing" 11 game run, yet when we win the same kind of games, we're doing "okay". Makes sense.

Can you honestly say we've played well against Cheslea, Everton, Newcastle, Cardiff, Fulham and yesterday? NO, i dont think so. We have been winning games due to our excellent defence and 10-15 minute spells where he score our goals. Im not for on second complaining and when i look at the difference between this season and last (15 points better of) i see clear improvement.

However, winning the title is not something i expect, i expect us to continue to challenge and stay in touch but we are competing against a much better squad.

[IBK]

The reason we'll finish 3rd is that the two teams we're trying to compete with have the infinite money cheat on.
We're top of the league, we've won our last 7 games, the first set back and everyone wets themselves.
Tsk.


That's untrue on tonight's evidence. Team selection was wrong and over the past month or so we've tried to get away with turning up to play for 5 minutes then going back to sleep. We did that tonight but and we've finally been punished. It's been coming and it's down to us. We can't blame City and Chelsea for today. That's a far stretch and a cop out.

I've given myself time to think about this, and while I don't want to be knee jerk, I'm afraid that last night summarises in many ways why we should be much more circumspect about our so-called 'progress' than some Gooners are.

I could only listen to the match (switching between radio shows) - but by all accounts, the first half was truly, truly awful from us. How can a team supposedly full of confidence, playing a fixture that lets face it was an essential 3 points if we were to maintain any real pretence of challenging for the title (given our 2 horrendous coming runs) - come out playing like that?

For me, that is totally down to the manager. It started on Monday, when his near-hysterical reaction to Mourinho's taunting showed us a brittle manager who has let Maureen get under his skin. It really was not the best rallying cry for his players. And the negativity continued with his team selection last night. Bringing a non-match fit Arteta in alongside Flamini in midfield was a very poor selection - and one that has made the team look unbalanced almost whenever its been tried this season. It meant that the initiative was handed on a plate to Southampton, and was simply not, IMHO how league leaders should have approached this tie.

The truth is that while Steve Bould has clearly been allowed to tighten us up at the back, we have not looked truly threatening going forwards for a while now. Wenger might choose to praise his team's 'resilience' to keep going in adversity, but as PNG says - we have looked complacent and lacking in focus for a few games now - and its an age old Arsenal problem.

Letters chooses to look at the competition to explain why we won't win the league. Well its that opposition that we have to beat to win things - and compare and contrast them with us. Both Citeh and the Chavs have had games where they have let themselves down this season, but (the City/Watford FA Cup tie apart) - the trend is that both teams have improved as their new managers have found their right balance of players. Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.

Even when we were 7 points clear a couple of months ago - most pundits and bookies put us 3rd favourites for the league, pointing out that we had had a relatively easy first half to the season. Letters can argue that this is because of Chelsea's and Citeh's resources - but that is not the whole reason. Manure were way out-resourced by the same teams last season but romped the league. The reason why we are not considered proper title rivals by most is that we have a horrible history of crumbling under pressure. In 2008, we were 5 points clear at the top of the league in February, but imploded. For more seasons than I wish to remember, we have been in with a theoretical chance of 3 or 4 trophies, only to crash out of everything in a matter of weeks.

This season, we have lost to Manure during their most inept period; failed to beat a developing Chavs team at home; been spanked by Citeh and dropped points against the likes of Everton at home and now Southampton away. Lets not forget also that we could't secure a draw against Napoli that would have seen us top our CL group - and instead came close to going out of a group that we had led from the outset.

I am afraid that nothing I have seen from us this season suggests that we will not implode again during our upcoming 'crunch' periods. The fact that its so likely to be 'same old' 'same old' Arsenal is what makes results like last night's depressing - not knee-jerkiness.

[Globalgunner]

So we can conclude that Letters and others have written this season off before it even started because we have an inferior squad to 2 teams. Leading the leaugue for so long must be some fluke then, so we should all agree that top 4 is where we expect to be. No doubt things will remain the same for the forseeable future because real;istically the status quo wrt City Chelsea will remain the same and United will eventually get their shit together.

However I dont see what yesterdays result has to do with any other club. We squandered 2 points because we refused to use the assets at our disposal properly.

A great manager can get his team an extra 20 points each season imo, otherwise why are United struggling now with essentially the same squad that blitzed the league last season. I dont understand why some like to be obtuse just to be obtuse. We should all be in agreement that yesterday, Wenger screwed up. He may get it right next time but nothing changes what just happened

[Power n Glory]

Why chose that one game? After 23 games we're top and if City win their game in hand we'll be at worst one point off the top.
If City go top then it'll be because if a run of 12 games where they've won 11, drawn 1. We've done remarkably well to stay top as long as we have.
We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last season.

We can't blame City and Chelsea for us dropping 2 points but City drew there too, every team drops silly points here and there. We're competing with sides who have infinite resources, it's very difficult. There's been a clear improvement since last season though, last year with a performance as I've heard last night's was we'd have lost. We're going in the right direction, I'm not sure what else you can ask of the manager or club.

Maybe because this is the match reaction thread?

Southampton looked the fresher side even though we had an extra days rest. Saying we can’t ask much more from the team and management is a stretch. It wasn’t a good performance.

[Letters]

Letters chooses to look at the competition to explain why we won't win the league.
Well its that opposition that we have to beat to win things - and compare and contrast them with us.
Both Citeh and the Chavs have had games where they have let themselves down this season, but (the City/Watford FA Cup tie apart) - the trend is that both teams have improved as their new managers have found their right balance of players. Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.

We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last year and we haven't improved? :blink:
I'd say our record this year (W16 D4 L3) is significantly better that last year's W10 D7 L6 at this stage.

Last year we scraped into the top 4, I don't see how it's reasonable to expect us to win the league this year.
In order to assess whether we can win the league of course you have to look at how strong the other teams are.
City's squad is frightening, the fact they didn't win the league last year is a combination of poor management, Fergie being Fergie and RvP being brilliant and fit all season. They've looked far poorer this season with Moyes and with Rooney and RvP getting injuries.


This season, we have lost to Manure during their most inept period; failed to beat a developing Chavs team at home; been spanked by Citeh and dropped points against the likes of Everton at home and now Southampton away.

We've also beaten Dortmund away (who I believe had won every home game prior to our visit), won away at Newcastle (who had only lost one home game and beaten both Utd and Chelsea at home at that stage) and beaten Liverpool at home (who would have leapfrogged us to go top had we not done so. I can cherry pick good results just as easily as you can cherry pick bad ones, and I can cherry pick bad results for our rivals (City lost away at Cardiff and Sunderland - the current bottom 2 - and, like us, drew away at Southampton)

I don't think we'll win the league because over a long season I think City and Chelsea both have too much for us.
You can blame Wenger if you like and of course he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cope with fatigue or injuries like we do. We've done well so far but when push comes to shove I think we'll be found wanting. The resources of City and Chelsea are a massive factor.

Do you think, given the last 2 seasons where we've just about limped into the top 4, the title is a reasonable expectation this year?

[Letters]

Maybe because this is the match reaction thread?
:lol: That's a fair point.
But in order to assess where we might finish you can't just look at one game where we've played poorly - or one game where we've played well.

[Özim]

We basically can't afford results like this, City and Chelsea weren't at their best at times in the 1st half of the season (and yet they've kept up with us), but the blips they've had will probably be eradicated from now on in and with the run we have coming up this was a must win game, considering the players Southampton had missing and their dip in results in recent times we should have won this.

This isn't a good result, just like the Everton home game wasn't a good result, despite what people said (Everton are dropping away now and the thrashing Liverpool gave them yesterday shows they are a level below the better teams).

We've been efficient this season IMO, without really playing great football, but in recent times we've lacked a cutting edge IMO, oddly it's almost like we lack a bit of creativity despite all of our creative players. IMO that's due to the lack of movement up front, together with our lack of pace when we attack, this lack of movement and pace have been evident recently as we've struggled to create many clear cut chances for ourselves.

In the FA Cup when we played at a higher tempo and with someone pacey up front, it was clear we found it much easier to open up the opposition, this was incidentally also our most enjoyable performance to watch as it was genuinely exciting, unlike many of our recent games.

[AKBapologist]

Between our increased defensive nature and the lack of some key players (some of which we never signed, like a pacy left winger or a true replacement for RVP) we're going to have a tough season from now on in. Good that it's been 2-nills to the arsenal instead of the 1-nills I was expecting, but we're beginning to run out of steam.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Near hysterical reaction to mourinho?



:haha: funniest thing I've read on here. Couldn't be further from the truth

[Fist of Lehmann]

Wow. First time round I ignored all that extraneous overblown shite for the shite it was.

Does anyone have a video link to Wenger's near hysteria? I'd like to see it now.

I'm quite hoping he smashes a chair over someones head.

[Xhaka Can’t]

There are two key things being discussed here:

Our expectations for the season and last night's match.

Over the course of the season, we have performed very well and are in the running against two teams who we really are doing well to be in touch with or slightly ahead of. That those two teams are the ones that have seemingly unlimited resources is no coincidence. Over the course of the season, it would be some achievement to be even pushing them.

The second thing is last nights performance. This has nothing whatsoever to do with those two teams. By all accounts we stunk the place out. And it is that which we need to sort out.

[GP]

Wow. First time round I ignored all that extraneous overblown shite for the shite it was.

Does anyone have a video link to Wenger's near hysteria? I'd like to see it now.

I'm quite hoping he smashes a chair over someones head.

Must be a mistake. Surely he meant Mourinho was hysterical?

[IBK]

We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last year and we haven't improved? :blink:
I'd say our record this year (W16 D4 L3) is significantly better that last year's W10 D7 L6 at this stage.

Last year we scraped into the top 4, I don't see how it's reasonable to expect us to win the league this year.
In order to assess whether we can win the league of course you have to look at how strong the other teams are.
City's squad is frightening, the fact they didn't win the league last year is a combination of poor management, Fergie being Fergie and RvP being brilliant and fit all season. They've looked far poorer this season with Moyes and with Rooney and RvP getting injuries.



We've also beaten Dortmund away (who I believe had won every home game prior to our visit), won away at Newcastle (who had only lost one home game and beaten both Utd and Chelsea at home at that stage) and beaten Liverpool at home (who would have leapfrogged us to go top had we not done so. I can cherry pick good results just as easily as you can cherry pick bad ones, and I can cherry pick bad results for our rivals (City lost away at Cardiff and Sunderland - the current bottom 2 - and, like us, drew away at Southampton)

I don't think we'll win the league because over a long season I think City and Chelsea both have too much for us.
You can blame Wenger if you like and of course he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cope with fatigue or injuries like we do. We've done well so far but when push comes to shove I think we'll be found wanting. The resources of City and Chelsea are a massive factor.

Do you think, given the last 2 seasons where we've just about limped into the top 4, the title is a reasonable expectation this year?

I didn't say we hadn't improved - I made the point (with justification I think) that we need to be circumspect as to the extent of our improvement.

Of course, noone can argue with the stats you have referred to in themselves. But even with these, further questions need to be asked. I haven't checked, but I can't recall us having had just the one tricky run by this stage last season? This season has been kind to us so far.

More than that, though? I'd say that its not necessarily about simply comparing points totals. Given the run we went on in 2013. Given the fact that we have a settled back 5; given the fact that the likes of Giroud; Cazorla; Merts now have first seasons under their belts; given the fact that we have tripled our previous transfer fee to sign a world class player, and given that for once last Summer we did not lose our best player - I would say that we are not comparing like for like by looking at January 2014 and January 2013. I would say that given all the circumstances, we should bloody well expect an improvement. Perhaps the more incisive question is whether we are over or under-performing? IMO that is a much more nuanced question.

Anyway, why just compare last season? Like I say, in 2007/8 we were in a better league position, relative to other teams, than we are now. In 2010/11 we were just 1 point behind leaders Manure at the end of Feb (which I would be very surprised will be the case this season), yet both times we couldn't last the pace. It would be a very brave person who would bet against the same thing happening this season - for whatever reason. Is that really a step change in terms of league status?

As for cherry-picking results. I follow you to an extent. But the games I've highlighted - where we do not get results when the pressure is on - represent a trend for our football club. And that trend is that we have a mental block when it comes to facing so-called better teams - and that we rarely perform when it really matters. I'm afraid I can't put the Liverpool and Newcastle games into that category - and what does the away result at Dortmund mean, when at the sharp end of the group we fucked it up against a Napoli team that we had destroyed at home? We have always, under Wenger, pulled the odd surprising result out of the bag - but for years we have under performed in general against the top teams.

I'm not sure I have seen anyone - least of all me - claim that we should 'expect' to win the league. But 2 issues apply for me here. Regardless of Citeh and the Chavs' resources, there is a very strong argument to say that we consistently refuse to leverage the resources that we DO have. Is our financial situation such that we have to rely on a single frontline forward when Citeh have 4 world class strikers; Manure 2 - and 2 others arguably better than we have; Liverpool - SAS; even the Chavs have Torres; Eto'o and Ba - strikers that in name at least make a mockery of this argument that they have no strikeforce (and they've just bought Salah!). No - that is down to our manager and his choices.

Why did Wenger spend 42M on Ozil if not with the aim of winning the league? And yet again, we gamble with a lack of strikers. The one area where we have really improved is defence - and yet we are an injury away from real problems - both in central defence and at right back. This is nothing to do with either Chelsea or Citeh.

You talk about limping into the top 4 last season. Well as much as it pains me to say it, I think we are going to have a much harder time in this second half of the season than we had in the first half - and finishing 4th is certainly not out of the question - as Citeh and the Chavs settle; Liverpool looking consistent and Manure certain to improve. Even finishing 3rd may well turn out to be more because of Manure's 'disastrous' first half of the season than any step change from us. This might seem like a pessimistic approach, but for the reason's I have given, I haven't seen a great deal from this team to convince me otherwise.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Must be a mistake. Surely he meant Mourinho was hysterical?

Dunno.

He said 'to' Mourinho.

I'm assuming Mourinho doesn't react hysterically to himself? Unless he wakes up every morning with the horrible realisation of what an ungodly c*nt he is?

[GP]

Dunno.

He said 'to' Mourinho.

I'm assuming Mourinho doesn't react hysterically to himself? Unless he wakes up every morning with the horrible realisation of what an ungodly c*nt he is?

Doesn't make sense any other way.

[Niall_Quinn]

There are two key things being discussed here:

Our expectations for the season and last night's match.

Over the course of the season, we have performed very well and are in the running against two teams who we really are doing well to be in touch with or slightly ahead of. That those two teams are the ones that have seemingly unlimited resources is no coincidence. Over the course of the season, it would be some achievement to be even pushing them.

The second thing is last nights performance. This has nothing whatsoever to do with those two teams. By all accounts we stunk the place out. And it is that which we need to sort out.

That's about right. The team and manager deserve credit for a good season overall where we've seen improvement in some key areas, notably the defence. But last night, when we needed 3 points, we saw a negative team selection and negative tactics from the manager. The dropped points last night were down to Wenger more than anyone else. He deserves the plaudits for a good season so far and he deserves the criticism when he fucks up, which he certainly did last night. He'd already had a taste of the result of such negativity in the Everton game, lesson NOT learned. He refused to make any significant changes last night, which compounded the fuck up. If we're to fight to the finish then the manager as well as the team will need a set of balls. Wenger had no balls last night. Hope it's the last time we see this shit from him but I doubt it.

Now we are two thirds through the season and top (which I still think we'll be once the weekend games unwind) there certainly should be an expectation of winning this league. Why not? We have come this far against the dopers, so we keep the effort going for the final third of the season. Yes we have injuries, but now is the time for others to step up. Including the manager. Get it together Wenger, you get all that money for challenges like this. No shrinking please, find your balls and let's go for it.

[Power n Glory]

I've given myself time to think about this, and while I don't want to be knee jerk, I'm afraid that last night summarises in many ways why we should be much more circumspect about our so-called 'progress' than some Gooners are.

I could only listen to the match (switching between radio shows) - but by all accounts, the first half was truly, truly awful from us. How can a team supposedly full of confidence, playing a fixture that lets face it was an essential 3 points if we were to maintain any real pretence of challenging for the title (given our 2 horrendous coming runs) - come out playing like that?

For me, that is totally down to the manager. It started on Monday, when his near-hysterical reaction to Mourinho's taunting showed us a brittle manager who has let Maureen get under his skin. It really was not the best rallying cry for his players. And the negativity continued with his team selection last night. Bringing a non-match fit Arteta in alongside Flamini in midfield was a very poor selection - and one that has made the team look unbalanced almost whenever its been tried this season. It meant that the initiative was handed on a plate to Southampton, and was simply not, IMHO how league leaders should have approached this tie.

The truth is that while Steve Bould has clearly been allowed to tighten us up at the back, we have not looked truly threatening going forwards for a while now. Wenger might choose to praise his team's 'resilience' to keep going in adversity, but as PNG says - we have looked complacent and lacking in focus for a few games now - and its an age old Arsenal problem.

Letters chooses to look at the competition to explain why we won't win the league. Well its that opposition that we have to beat to win things - and compare and contrast them with us. Both Citeh and the Chavs have had games where they have let themselves down this season, but (the City/Watford FA Cup tie apart) - the trend is that both teams have improved as their new managers have found their right balance of players. Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.

Even when we were 7 points clear a couple of months ago - most pundits and bookies put us 3rd favourites for the league, pointing out that we had had a relatively easy first half to the season. Letters can argue that this is because of Chelsea's and Citeh's resources - but that is not the whole reason. Manure were way out-resourced by the same teams last season but romped the league. The reason why we are not considered proper title rivals by most is that we have a horrible history of crumbling under pressure. In 2008, we were 5 points clear at the top of the league in February, but imploded. For more seasons than I wish to remember, we have been in with a theoretical chance of 3 or 4 trophies, only to crash out of everything in a matter of weeks.

This season, we have lost to Manure during their most inept period; failed to beat a developing Chavs team at home; been spanked by Citeh and dropped points against the likes of Everton at home and now Southampton away. Lets not forget also that we could't secure a draw against Napoli that would have seen us top our CL group - and instead came close to going out of a group that we had led from the outset.

I am afraid that nothing I have seen from us this season suggests that we will not implode again during our upcoming 'crunch' periods. The fact that its so likely to be 'same old' 'same old' Arsenal is what makes results like last night's depressing - not knee-jerkiness.

It’s been one of those weeks. I had high hope for this season and although we’re still top and in with a shout, I doubt we’ll do it unless we make a major signing that can really give us a lift. I hope that Draxler deal goes through.

I don’t think Wenger can deal with the pressure. I still don’t know why he went out of his way to talk about Chelsea selling Mata as if it’s a disadvantage to us. It’s not the sort of message you want to put out there. Many on here dismiss it but I’ve always questioned why he’s complaining when we’re in such a strong position. We should just focus on us. All this talk of City and Chelsea’s transfers is very negative and sets a defeatist tone around our club. Take Letter’s as an example, straight off the bat he’s blaming City and Chelsea. If the players and coach have that same mentality then we’re screwed and it seems like that’s the thought process around the club. It doesn’t help us. The positive noise coming from the club and the signing of Ozil set us off this season. Even though the fixtures have been easy on us, we’d have royally screwed up on a lot of those games two years ago. We’d get complacent and drop silly points.

We have to do business before the window closes. Injuries are racking up and a couple of bad games will leave us fighting for 4th place. The league is that tight and we can’t afford a sudden shake of confidence. The manager has to show some leadership and stake his claim for the title. Stop with all the moaning and get on with it. There is no point in talking about players coming back from injury. We’ve crocked Ramsey because he’s been overplayed then rushed back and it makes no sense not to start players like Podolski when he’s been scoring goals. Wenger needs to get it together for the final stretch.

[Letters]

I didn't say we hadn't improved

Umm. You said:

Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.
:shrug:
Now you're saying they have, listing some reasons why and asking whether we've improved enough which I agree that is a better question.

As for why compare last season - that is the most relevant comparison. You mention 2007/8, how many of those players are still playing for us? I can't be arsed checking but it can't be enough to make the comparison relevant. It's a completely different set of players now. Comparisons with last season are the most valid ones as it's mostly the same players so you're comparing (more or less) like for like.

You cite our problems with 'pressure', but as I said in that Liverpool game they'd have leap-frogged us had we lost, since the turn of the year we've had City and Chelsea right on our tails. Every game has been a must-win game as they've kept winning and till last night we had won every one. One slip-up and you cite it as the old problem of us not winning under pressure.

I agree we haven't made the most of our resources but we have been hampered by the stadium move and poor commercial deals, those are coming to an end now and while I agree we've been over-cautious in the transfer market the Ozil signing is an indication that we are ready to play with the big boys now. We need more, but it's a start.

Obviously we can only judge this season at the end but so far I'm happy with where we are and am content that the club are heading in the right direction. The important thing is we continue that.

[Power n Glory]

Umm. You said:

:shrug:
Now you're saying they have, listing some reasons why and asking whether we've improved enough which I agree that is a better question.

As for why compare last season - that is the most relevant comparison. You mention 2007/8, how many of those players are still playing for us? I can't be arsed checking but it can't be enough to make the comparison relevant. It's a completely different set of players now. Comparisons with last season are the most valid ones as it's mostly the same players so you're comparing (more or less) like for like.

You cite our problems with 'pressure', but as I said in that Liverpool game they'd have leap-frogged us had we lost, since the turn of the year we've had City and Chelsea right on our tails. Every game has been a must-win game as they've kept winning and till last night we had won every one. One slip-up and you cite it as the old problem of us not winning under pressure.

I agree we haven't made the most of our resources but we have been hampered by the stadium move and poor commercial deals, those are coming to an end now and while I agree we've been over-cautious in the transfer market the Ozil signing is an indication that we are ready to play with the big boys now. We need more, but it's a start.

Obviously we can only judge this season at the end but so far I'm happy with where we are and am content that the club are heading in the right direction. The important thing is we continue that.

But what’s one Ozil on the pitch for us when oil rich clubs can have such players on the field and on their bench!

[Letters]

But what’s one Ozil on the pitch for us when oil rich clubs can have such players on the field and on their bench!
It's a step closer to them but even if you're being sarcastic you're right, it's not enough to bridge the gap.

[Niall_Quinn]

I still don’t know why he went out of his way to talk about Chelsea selling Mata as if it’s a disadvantage to us. It’s not the sort of message you want to put out there.

Because what he said is related to FFP and this could be a crucial factor in the coming seasons if it is applied properly. We are starting to generate significant revenues using proper business methods so theoretically we should have an advantage, and rightly so as this is about financial FAIR play. We haven't been dumping sugar daddy cash into the club or using shady self sponsorship to balance the books. The chavs and gypos are doing the opposite to us. Their financial figures are manipulated and if the FFP rulings go against them they will suffer penalties for financial UNFAIR play.

These decisions are being made right now and the outcome will be crucial. Will the chavs and gypos be permitted to stick two fingers up to the regulating authorities or will the new rules be applied in the proper manner? If the latter then we are suddenly in the driving seat and the comedy clubs are scrambling. Wenger put the message out at the right time and in the right manner. The thick, hyped-up twats in the media decided to turn it into a Mata soap opera instead. Maureen threw a fit because he'll be more than aware his job will be a lot harder if the rules are applied and he can no longer apply his preferred management tactics, namely chucking cash at every problem.

The authorities respect Wenger and use our club as a model example. Whether they have the balls to go up against major criminals like Abaramovich and the arab scum that have hijacked city is another matter. That will need balls. Wenger is reminding them of this. And why not? He's trying to do whatever he can to ensure 10 years of sacrifice and careful planning is not undone by financial doping elsewhere. He's doing his job.

[Power n Glory]

Do you think UEFA and FIFA are actually paying attention to Wenger? I don't think that's the way to get his message across. There are more powerful people within the club that can talk on that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you think UEFA and FIFA are actually paying attention to Wenger? I don't think that's the way to get his message across. There are more powerful people within the club that can talk on that.

Everyone in the club has been talking about it, excluding Silent Stan. I don't think they pay exclusive attention to Wenger, but they do seem to pay a lot of attention to our financial model. I would say, like most large and influential organisations, they have people in one camp who genuinely want to improve the game, then they have corrupt bastards on the take. Wenger, along with other figures who value the integrity of the game, will be lobbying to one faction, the chavs and gypos will be bunging cash and favours at the other group. I can't prove that of course, but it's the normal way for business and politics to interact and the usual outcome when criminal elements posing as respectable businesses are involved.

[Dein-machine]

We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last year and we haven't improved? :blink:
I'd say our record this year (W16 D4 L3) is significantly better that last year's W10 D7 L6 at this stage.

Last year we scraped into the top 4, I don't see how it's reasonable to expect us to win the league this year.
In order to assess whether we can win the league of course you have to look at how strong the other teams are.
City's squad is frightening, the fact they didn't win the league last year is a combination of poor management, Fergie being Fergie and RvP being brilliant and fit all season. They've looked far poorer this season with Moyes and with Rooney and RvP getting injuries.



We've also beaten Dortmund away (who I believe had won every home game prior to our visit), won away at Newcastle (who had only lost one home game and beaten both Utd and Chelsea at home at that stage) and beaten Liverpool at home (who would have leapfrogged us to go top had we not done so. I can cherry pick good results just as easily as you can cherry pick bad ones, and I can cherry pick bad results for our rivals (City lost away at Cardiff and Sunderland - the current bottom 2 - and, like us, drew away at Southampton)

I don't think we'll win the league because over a long season I think City and Chelsea both have too much for us.
You can blame Wenger if you like and of course he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cope with fatigue or injuries like we do. We've done well so far but when push comes to shove I think we'll be found wanting. The resources of City and Chelsea are a massive factor.

Do you think, given the last 2 seasons where we've just about limped into the top 4, the title is a reasonable expectation this year?

"You can blame Wenger if you like and ofcourse he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cpoe with fatigue or injuries like we do" - who's fault is this? - A whole summer window with big money to spend & he buys no-one. We don't even know if he would have bought Ozil had he not got so much stick after the Villa Game. He had plenty of opportunity to get a few 10-15 mill squad players that would have helped with fatigue or injuries. And low & behold, having no striking options apart from Giroud, Rambo out, Theo & his goals/assists out - we're a day away from spending fuck all again in the Jan window. The early season form of Giroud, Ramsey & Ozil has fizzled out, mosty becuase Wenger's tactics have become desperately defensive sitting back on leads against pub teams when they're there for the taking. This will get us nowhere against the better teams. When we attack with pace & numbers at high tempo we're capable of beating anyone but we only give the players license to do it if we're behind or trying to win at home against Fulham or Cardiff. Look at the differnce when we came out for the 2nd half last night, bodies up the pitch in & around the area - its the only way we know how to play, so do it from the start.
We go a goal behind, this generally means we have to score to get back in the game, maybe a few to win it - why then did we not IMMEDIATELY bring on Polds or Ox to replace one of our 2 defensive midfielders ( which was a joke in the 1st place ), these are tactical decesions that top managers make & Wenger never does it. I dont expect us to win the league, never did but I do expect us to play the football we teach at Colney, otherwise bring in Pullis.

[Letters]

who's fault is this?.
No-one's. I agree Wenger should have done more in the transfer market but you're dreaming if you think that whatever he did we could have a squad as strong as City's.

[Dein-machine]

With a decent enough squad to finish 4th last year & £80 mill to spend, we might not build a squad like City's but you can certianly build a squad that is more resiliant to fatigue & injuries - our forward line is the weakest in the league in depth & it was at the start of the season.

[Letters]

I agree with that. I'm irritated, although not that surprised, that we haven't strengthened up front when it's a clear area of weakness.

[Power n Glory]

Everyone in the club has been talking about it, excluding Silent Stan. I don't think they pay exclusive attention to Wenger, but they do seem to pay a lot of attention to our financial model. I would say, like most large and influential organisations, they have people in one camp who genuinely want to improve the game, then they have corrupt bastards on the take. Wenger, along with other figures who value the integrity of the game, will be lobbying to one faction, the chavs and gypos will be bunging cash and favours at the other group. I can't prove that of course, but it's the normal way for business and politics to interact and the usual outcome when criminal elements posing as respectable businesses are involved.

Honestly, it seems like he's playing the 'poor old Arsenal' card and I hate that. We know we're underdogs but from the outside it looks like Wenger is appealing for more help and protection. We just need to get on with it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Honestly, it seems like he's playing the 'poor old Arsenal' card and I hate that. We know we're underdogs but from the outside it looks like Wenger is appealing for more help and protection. We just need to get on with it.

We each have our opinions, but it doesn't look anything like that to me. I see him focusing on the only area that could undermine the financial dopers. I see the gypos are likely to be excused for breaking FFP rules, posting up yet another loss despite the fact they have blatantly cooked the books. It seems that without sustained prodding the bods in charge won't be doing much to implement FFP in practical terms. So Wenger (and I'm sure others) are prodding and reminding. What's wrong with that? I did't hear any sort of "poor Arsenal" message, it was more like a reminder to UEFA about their own rules which they have made a big song and dance about.

[Power n Glory]

We each have our opinions, but it doesn't look anything like that to me. I see him focusing on the only area that could undermine the financial dopers. I see the gypos are likely to be excused for breaking FFP rules, posting up yet another loss despite the fact they have blatantly cooked the books. It seems that without sustained prodding the bods in charge won't be doing much to implement FFP in practical terms. So Wenger (and I'm sure others) are prodding and reminding. What's wrong with that? I did't hear any sort of "poor Arsenal" message, it was more like a reminder to UEFA about their own rules which they have made a big song and dance about.

Wait a second....the Mata comments have very little to do with the FFP ruling to be fair. It's a seperate issue Wenger is taking on. He's calling for the January transfer window to be scrapped. That's totally seperate.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wait a second....the Mata comments have very little to do with the FFP ruling to be fair. It's a seperate issue Wenger is taking on. He's calling for the January transfer window to be scrapped. That's totally seperate.

Yes, it was the secondary issue Wenger used to lead into FFP because that's what he was asked about. He said he didn't agree with the January window but then he speculated the chavs were selling because they might finally be paying attention to FFP. The procession was a bit complex for the poor old fat and drunk hack journos to follow, so they went with their typical shit. I think one journo has had the guts to tell the truth about the gypos and their despicable owners. The rest just whore themselves out cheaply.

[Power n Glory]

I think you're reaching on that one. If he's saying their trying to comply with the rules it I don't see how it's shining a light on their cooked books.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think you're reaching on that one. If he's saying their trying to comply with the rules it I don't see how it's shining a light on their cooked books.

Read his interview again. There's no reaching, his main point is very clearly about FFP. In the world of politics and diplomacy if you want to call somebody a complete and utter cunt you say their, "actions need clarification." If you want to call somebody a cheating cunt you say, "I'm encouraged they have decided to abide by the rules." This is what Wenger said.

[Letters]

Wait a second....the Mata comments have very little to do with the FFP ruling to be fair. It's a seperate issue Wenger is taking on. He's calling for the January transfer window to be scrapped. That's totally seperate.

He's been calling for that for years and when he made that comment he made it clear he didn't think Chelsea were doing anything wrong.
More media bollox.

[Power n Glory]

I've read his comments and he seems to be suggesting that the rules are working and the Mata sale is a result of the FFP rules.


'I think it is a purely financial reason,' he explained, as quoted by Sky Sports. 'That is the first time I come to that conclusion with Chelsea. It means somewhere that Chelsea changes philosophy and they want to get on line with financial fair play.

'For me that is the main reason, and that is a good thing.'

It's a very long stretch to interpret it any other way. We'll agree to disagree on this one.

[Munchies]

Flamini is in fact only banned for three matches, not four as first thought. Will miss Palace (h), Liv (a), Man U (h).

[Ollie the Optimist]

what was said last night? oh yes, it was "mourinho would never get a draw like we did yesterday, his teams would be up for it, he completely screwed wenger with his mind games etc etc"

a goaless draw against a side who not so long ago conceded 5 to a championship side.

[fakeyank]

what was said last night? oh yes, it was "mourinho would never get a draw like we did yesterday, his teams would be up for it, he completely screwed wenger with his mind games etc etc"

a goaless draw against a side who not so long ago conceded 5 to a championship side.

:lol:

You really are not reading posts, are you? They got a draw but did you see how many shots on goal they had? I dont know about other posters but I clearly mentioned that we did not show up.. if we had shown up and lost/drew, its a different thing. Not giving a fuck is another. If you think that Chelsea today did not give a fuck about winning, then you are just here on the WUM

[GP]

what was said last night? oh yes, it was "mourinho would never get a draw like we did yesterday, his teams would be up for it, he completely screwed wenger with his mind games etc etc"

a goaless draw against a side who not so long ago conceded 5 to a championship side.

Hysterical reaction.





:haha:

[fakeyank]

Flamini is in fact only banned for three matches, not four as first thought. Will miss Palace (h), Liv (a), Man U (h).

Dont need him tbh..

[Ollie the Optimist]

if you want to see what a near hysterical reaction from a manager really is, go check out mourinho's post match interview. he's complaining about a team playing for a draw. thats a hysterical reaction

[Niall_Quinn]

Maureen deliberately drew, it's all mind games. We'll be lulled into a false sense of security now. Tbf, the guy's a genius, the way he toys with Wenger.

[Ollie the Optimist]

:lol:

You really are not reading posts, are you? They got a draw but did you see how many shots on goal they had? I dont know about other posters but I clearly mentioned that we did not show up.. if we had shown up and lost/drew, its a different thing. Not giving a fuck is another. If you think that Chelsea today did not give a fuck about winning, then you are just here on the WUM


yeah they just drew with a side one point above bottom placed cardiff, in the relegation zone, at home, against a side who have conceded about 30 goals this year alone.

given the reaction from a lot on here last night, this is a far worse result then ours, yet oh look excuses are being made. he's just sold his best player from the last two seasons and draw with a relegation threatened side at home.

[Özim]

IMO everytime we've won the title we've looked like a title winning side, producing some top notch football and schooling teams. I think we've been grinding out results this season but have been very lacklustre and eventually it was going to catch up with us, unless we sign some quality now we'll fall away in February/March, I don't think we have the quality in the squad and think we have too many players who just can't last a season.

We've improved this season, but in particular we've improved defensively, going forward we've been quite average. We need to improve in that department and need some quality up front.

[Niall_Quinn]

IMO everytime we've won the title we've looked like a title winning side, producing some top notch football and schooling teams. I think we've been grinding out results this season but have been very lacklustre and eventually it was going to catch up with us, unless we sign some quality now we'll fall away in February/March, I don't think we have the quality in the squad and think we have too many players who just can't last a season.

We've improved this season, but in particular we've improved defensively, going forward we've been quite average. We need to improve in that department and need some quality up front.

Key injuries, something our closest opponents don't have to deal with.

[Özim]

Key injuries, something our closest opponents don't have to deal with.

Yeah but they're key injuries we get every single season, at some point you have to spot the pattern and try to do something about it, we persistently ignore the fact some players are just injury prone. When something happens so often you have to try and do something about it, we don't seem to.

I do think we just lack something as well though, we seem to find it very hard to break down teams due to our slow style of play, a pacey forward who can get some goals is a must.

Like I said we've been efficient this season without being particularly impressive, you never get the feeling this team is going to play the opposition off the park and thump them.

Ozil is a hell of a player and yet we're just no using him to his strengths, he's best when he's running at pace at the opposition when his team counters, we're so slow we rarely ever see that and almost make him look ordinary. He's so much better than we are making him look.

[Ernesto]

IMO everytime we've won the title we've looked like a title winning side, producing some top notch football and schooling teams. I think we've been grinding out results this season but have been very lacklustre and eventually it was going to catch up with us, unless we sign some quality now we'll fall away in February/March, I don't think we have the quality in the squad and think we have too many players who just can't last a season.

We've improved this season, but in particular we've improved defensively, going forward we've been quite average. We need to improve in that department and need some quality up front.

You say that, Zim, but what people tend to forget is that in our title-winning Invincibles season, we only really kicked on from January. A Manchester United defeat at the Molineux put us top as well as indifferent results from Chelsea meaning that there was very little pressure on us from that point on. Before January of 04, we were rather lacklustre ourselves (in stark similarity to this term)

I think we can still push on, but this Manchester City side look like a whole different beast. A Chelsea win at the Etihad might just demoralize them a little, and make them lose heart for their next few fixtures, a la The Arsenal (although that's heart speaking over head)

The most frustrating thing for me is that when we've had à very real shot for the title, a near impeccable side is looming over us. Chelsea did the same in 05. It's frustrating in that we're not competing against the Man City of last season, or even the title-winning side of the season before, where the slightest bit of pressure would cause them to wobble. :(

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah but they're key injuries we get every single season, at some point you have to spot the pattern and try to do something about it, we persistently ignore the fact some players are just injury prone. When something happens so often you have to try and do something about it, we don't seem to.

Last season wasn't so bad, but we seem to be back to the old pattern this season. Point is, even with extra money we can't staff each position with multi million quid playas.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Bad result and performance but some of the responses are cringeworthy to say the least.

Most of us would have jumped at the chance to be 1 point-of-top past the mid point of the season, even after we signed Ozil let alone before that! We're competing with two squad filled with infinite money signings and top quality international players unable to even make the bench. And we're still giving a good account of ourselves ......

Chill out, despite Man City's result tonight, they will also drop points along the way and give us oppurtunities to catch them up.

There were always going to be setbacks along the way. Last night will be one of them - the real test of our character is to see how well we bounce back against them.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not one game. Wenger did this against Everton and Napoli too. There's no reason for him to be so negative and if anything costs us over the season it'll probably be that.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Once as a club we start making the full use of our resources, with very little to spare and go into seasons covering all our bases squad wise with a concerted effort.....then we can really really complain about the depth of our opponents pockets.

For some time now we haven't even been competing with our former selves, never mind the modern day behemoth, of petro-dollar clubs.

Time for Wenger to show his real manager-smarts and show the rest who's boss despite their money....lest he pack it in, we pack it in and we just accept the climate around us.

They can't all acquire all of the best talent in the world all of the time....so it's a bloody good thing the man we have is just about aware of every decent footballer known to the human species.

[Niall_Quinn]

And he is also aware of Bendtner

[IBK]

Bad result and performance but some of the responses are cringeworthy to say the least.

Most of us would have jumped at the chance to be 1 point-of-top past the mid point of the season, even after we signed Ozil let alone before that! We're competing with two squad filled with infinite money signings and top quality international players unable to even make the bench. And we're still giving a good account of ourselves ......

Chill out, despite Man City's result tonight, they will also drop points along the way and give us oppurtunities to catch them up.

There were always going to be setbacks along the way. Last night will be one of them - the real test of our character is to see how well we bounce back against them.

Not really relevant. Would we have jumped at this position having been 7 points clear less than 2 months ago is the more pertinent one.

[Letters]

Not really relevant. Would we have jumped at this position having been 7 points clear less than 2 months ago is the more pertinent one.
Given that City's form since then has been P12 W11 D1 L0 it's hardly a huge capitulation.

[Fist of Lehmann]

I think that drives home the point of just how buggeringly hard it is to win the Premiership.

It's been some time since we properly challenged and it's easy to forget the consistent level on you need to perform at.
We've been playing at a consistent level for months, the best league record of any English team in a calendar year last year.
But that does tend to gloss over the crunch period we experienced this time last year.

From Jan up until the Bayern away game in mid March, which is generally considered "The Turning Point", our record in all competitions was: W6 D3 L5

Which includes losses to Bayern, City, Chelsea, Sperms and Blackburn and draws with Swans, Soton and Pool.

It may be that this time of year is when the attritional effect of fatigue and injuries finally start to impact.

[Power n Glory]

I have a feeling we’ve adapted our style of play to preserve energy. We hardly pressed Southampton and we’ve been taking it easy for a while now so maybe the message is to win but play smart and save energy. Injuries are kicking in because of fatigue so maybe that has the team pumping their brakes. We really need to add numbers this Friday if that’s the worry. We need competition for places to keep performance levels up. Some won’t agree but I think Monreal has really stepped his game up to keep Gibbs out of the squad. Gibbs will be desperate to win his spot back. Same goes for Pod. You can see he really wants to get game time.

[Letters]

I was looking back (Oh statto.com, how I love thee) and noticed that in the Anfield '89 season we won the league with 76 points, Liverpool got the same of course and Forest in 3rd only got 64.
Last year we got 73 points and just about scraped into 4th.
The top few sides, bolstered by CL money and billionaire sugar-daddys, don't lose much these days.
You can't really afford slip-ups any more.

[Niall_Quinn]

I have a feeling we’ve adapted our style of play to preserve energy.

Little doubt about it. We are playing with little bit handbrake. Playing in short bursts, trying to grab a goal or two and then relying on the defence to edge it. Hasn't worked though, has it? Everyone is injured as usual. At some point if we want to really give this a go we'll have to really give it a go.

[Marc Overmars]

I have a feeling we’ve adapted our style of play to preserve energy. We hardly pressed Southampton and we’ve been taking it easy for a while now so maybe the message is to win but play smart and save energy. Injuries are kicking in because of fatigue so maybe that has the team pumping their brakes. We really need to add numbers this Friday if that’s the worry. We need competition for places to keep performance levels up. Some won’t agree but I think Monreal has really stepped his game up to keep Gibbs out of the squad. Gibbs will be desperate to win his spot back. Same goes for Pod. You can see he really wants to get game time.

This team is being built to contain.

Something you never thought you'd see from a Wenger side.

Now it's a serious struggle to win games after going behind, they're not used to it and it throws the initial game plan out the window.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Ramsey and Walcott injuries are bloody unfortunate, just as both had stepped up their game.

[Syn]

This team is being built to contain.

Something you never thought you'd see from a Wenger side.

Now it's a serious struggle to win games after going behind, they're not used to it and it throws the initial game plan out the window.

on the plus side, we rarely go behind. I'm really not bothered about the 'style' issue. For years arsenal fans have been moaning that results are more important than being pretty. If you want the best of both worlds, you need to pile up £30m squad players like Man City so that when your best attacking players (like Ramsey and Walcott) get injured, you've got a Dzeko-level player to bring on.

[Niall_Quinn]

The first half against Southampton is a worry whichever way you cut it. Haven't seen us play in such a negative and toothless manner for years.

[Power n Glory]

I was looking back (Oh statto.com, how I love thee) and noticed that in the Anfield '89 season we won the league with 76 points, Liverpool got the same of course and Forest in 3rd only got 64.
Last year we got 73 points and just about scraped into 4th.
The top few sides, bolstered by CL money and billionaire sugar-daddys, don't lose much these days.
You can't really afford slip-ups any more.

The two billionaire boy clubs finished on 75 (Chelsea) and 78 (Man City) points. Man Utd walked it on 89 points. A mid 80s score is usually what it takes to win the league and it’s been like that since United won the treble and walked the league on 91 points. We’ve had to push for a mid 80s score ever since and that was before the oil money. We’ve only hit a mid 80s score once since Vieria left and we won the FA Cup and we struggle to break past the 70+ mark in most seasons. It’s a tougher league but we’ve also dropped off quality wise. We need to raise the bar and start hitting the 80 mark again or high 70s at least.

[Syn]

The first half against Southampton is a worry whichever way you cut it. Haven't seen us play in such a negative and toothless manner for years.

Complete exaggeration. We've been just as poor and negative in many games this season. But we've usually won them so nobody gives it a second thought. That's just the way we play (the conservative part anyway, not the poor part).

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Not really relevant. Would we have jumped at this position having been 7 points clear less than 2 months ago is the more pertinent one.


Given that City's form since then has been P12 W11 D1 L0 it's hardly a huge capitulation.

@IBK - Letters point is spot on. We've actually been quite fairly good, it's just that City have been on a ridicolous level.

We all suspected that City and Chelsea would eventually close the gap as their squads were bigger and everyone still had them as the favourites so I don't know why we're all surprised all of a sudden. To be where we are is a cause of celebration, not misery and doom.


I think that drives home the point of just how buggeringly hard it is to win the Premiership.

It's been some time since we properly challenged and it's easy to forget the consistent level on you need to perform at.
We've been playing at a consistent level for months, the best league record of any English team in a calendar year last year.
But that does tend to gloss over the crunch period we experienced this time last year.

From Jan up until the Bayern away game in mid March, which is generally considered "The Turning Point", our record in all competitions was: W6 D3 L5

Which includes losses to Bayern, City, Chelsea, Sperms and Blackburn and draws with Swans, Soton and Pool.

It may be that this time of year is when the attritional effect of fatigue and injuries finally start to impact.

To an extent yes it does highlight how hard it can be at times, but it's not always this way.

Man Utd were 12 points clear this point last season, despite not playing that well and having dropped not that much fewer points than we have this season. It's just that everyone else was crap and no one else was consistent enough to put together a run to challenge for the league. City had thier problems with Mancini, Chelsea had the problems of Benitez/Di Matteo and we were our usual selves. If we were up against similar City and Chelsea teams this year, we've be storming the league right now (assuming the current Utd team with Moyes).

It's just our fucking luck isn't it? :sulk:

[Syn]

The two billionaire boy clubs finished on 75 (Chelsea) and 78 (Man City) points. Man Utd walked it on 89 points. A mid 80s score is usually what it takes to win the league and it’s been like that since United won the treble and walked the league on 91 points. We’ve had to push for a mid 80s score ever since and that was before the oil money. We’ve only hit a mid 80s score once since Vieria left and we won the FA Cup and we struggle to break past the 70+ mark in most seasons. It’s a tougher league but we’ve also dropped off quality wise. We need to raise the bar and start hitting the 80 mark again or high 70s at least.

What points tally would you consider respectable for this season? You've said you fancied us for the title (or at least thought the title was for the taking this year). Well Man City are looking like they'll hit 90. Several tough games left but I'd be disappointed if we got less than 80.

[Power n Glory]

This team is being built to contain.

Something you never thought you'd see from a Wenger side.

Now it's a serious struggle to win games after going behind, they're not used to it and it throws the initial game plan out the window.

Thankfully, we’ve ditched the suicidal high backline. Was reading Arseblog today or one of the columns and didn’t we manage to beat Southampton during the home tie because we pressed them when high up the pitch? Goalkeeper mistakes? I thought our defensive tactic was to press within the first few seconds of losing the ball then back off and contain if unsuccessful. We’ve stopped pressing as hard and it’s not the first time we’ve seen this. I remember when we first started playing a 4-3-3 we were pressing hard and as a unit but that stopped as the season went on. We’d also see a high pressing game in odd games like that one game against Chelsea and then we’d abandon that tactic. We’ll see what we do over the next few games.

[Syn]

Also png I don't really understand your logic. You say mid 80s has been enough because that's what the clubs that did win the league needed to achieve in recent years. But the fact that they've got more surely means the bar has gone up a lot from, say, our 98 title win. We would've needed 95 points to retain the title in 2005, and 90 last year.

[Power n Glory]

What points tally would you consider respectable for this season? You've said you fancied us for the title (or at least thought the title was for the taking this year). Well Man City are looking like they'll hit 90. Several tough games left but I'd be disappointed if we got less than 80.

I'd be disappointed if we didn't hit the 80 mark either. But saying that, I'd have no problems if we won the league with 79 points but bitterly disappointed if we ended up on 90 but lost our last game to Norwich which hands City the title.

[AKBapologist]

Also bear in mind things like this:

Soccer players don't run at the same pace for a game's entire 90 minutes. Running speeds vary from jogging to moderate running and sprinting. Quite often, a player will even walk during a game. Research data shows, however, that the degree of moderate running and sprinting activities has dramatically increased in the past several years in professional soccer. The number of so called "high-intensity" bursts performed by teams per game nearly doubled in a three-year span, to the Washington Post story. What's more, players increased the amount of ground they covered during sprints by 40 percent, a sign the game is becoming more intense and that players are raising the bar for physical condition standards.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/400871-the-average-distance-run-in-a-soccer-game/

I don't think I've seen a EPL side play with that level of pressing and intensity for so long. Probably a sign of things to come and Southampton aren't the only team capable of playing that way.

[Power n Glory]

Also png I don't really understand your logic. You say mid 80s has been enough because that's what the clubs that did win the league needed to achieve in recent years. But the fact that they've got more surely means the bar has gone up a lot from, say, our 98 title win. We would've needed 95 points to retain the title in 2005, and 90 last year.

The standards have gone up for sure but it's not every season a team gets 90+ points. United once won the league with 80 points 2010/11. When you're in the title race, it gets to a point where the runners are pushing each other on and it's down to who blinks first. We've been out of the title race for so and so early that we're just about scraping the 70 point mark. We've been doing what we needed to stay top 4 pushing ourselves for results when that place looks in jeopardy. If we'd have consistently ended the season in the 75-85 point range, I'd have no problem saying these oil rich clubs have truly gazumped us. Fact is, we haven't even won the FA Cup or League Cup in years. Their a factor but we haven't had our own house in order.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The two billionaire boy clubs finished on 75 (Chelsea) and 78 (Man City) points. Man Utd walked it on 89 points. A mid 80s score is usually what it takes to win the league and it’s been like that since United won the treble and walked the league on 91 points. We’ve had to push for a mid 80s score ever since and that was before the oil money. We’ve only hit a mid 80s score once since Vieria left and we won the FA Cup and we struggle to break past the 70+ mark in most seasons. It’s a tougher league but we’ve also dropped off quality wise. We need to raise the bar and start hitting the 80 mark again or high 70s at least.

We are on course for 86 points at the current rate. I doubt it will be enough.

[Niall_Quinn]

We are on course for 86 points at the current rate. I doubt it will be enough.

It will be if it represents a genuine starting point to a push next season and the season after and so on. But if we're swapping and always 4th attitude for an always third or always second alternative then it's all a bit pointless.

[Power n Glory]

Also png I don't really understand your logic. You say mid 80s has been enough because that's what the clubs that did win the league needed to achieve in recent years. But the fact that they've got more surely means the bar has gone up a lot from, say, our 98 title win. We would've needed 95 points to retain the title in 2005, and 90 last year.

Just been looking at the pattern for our 4th place spots and it says a lot. Ending the season on 65+ points used to be enough to qualify for 4th but the threshold has been pushed in recent years. In the seasons where Spurs have been hot on our tails, we’ve found that extra gear to get 70+ points to finish 4th. It goes back on what I’m saying about teams pushing each other when it comes to the title race.

2009/10 – Spurs 70/Arsenal 75 Points
2011/12 – Spurs 69/Arsenal 70 Points
2012/13 – Spurs 72/Arsenal 73 Points

Spurs have been close to edging us out for 4th spot and statistically, points wise, they should have done enough on those three occasions but we’ve found a way to raise the bar. The points tally at the end doesn’t really matter to be honest. It’s just about being in the race and staying within reach. If for some crazy reason it took 80 points to qualify for the Champs League spot and it became the norm, I’m sure we’d do what’s necessary to get that spot. We certainly had our sights set on 4th for the past 8 years.

[Marc Overmars]

I remember Gary Neville saying he never projected anything about points, it was just about overhauling whoever was competing with them regardless.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Thankfully, we’ve ditched the suicidal high backline. Was reading Arseblog today or one of the columns and didn’t we manage to beat Southampton during the home tie because we pressed them when high up the pitch? Goalkeeper mistakes? I thought our defensive tactic was to press within the first few seconds of losing the ball then back off and contain if unsuccessful. We’ve stopped pressing as hard and it’s not the first time we’ve seen this. I remember when we first started playing a 4-3-3 we were pressing hard and as a unit but that stopped as the season went on. We’d also see a high pressing game in odd games like that one game against Chelsea and then we’d abandon that tactic. We’ll see what we do over the next few games.

Yeah the game was in stark contrast to the other game against them. I'm not the biggest fan of high backlines but if we want to press and squeeze the opposition in their own half, then the backline does need to follow suit and play a higher line themselves.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, that's if we want to contain them for long periods but the rule is we back off if we don't win the ball back in a few seconds and we get into our defensive shape to contain from a deeper position. According to Rosicky, anyway.

I think the main problem we had was Flam and Arteta both sitting too deep and leaving Ozil and Giroud isolated. I don't get why Arteta doesn't push up past Flamini to play as CM in these sort of situations. Adapt your game. He should be capable of playing further up since he's not a natural CDM. Also, Ozil really should look to collect the ball from a deeper position if he's not getting much joy in the final third. If he at least does that, he should be able to find Cazorla and Gnarby further ahead and either side of him. Both players tend to come infield anyway. We shouldn't be struggling to find an outlet.

[Niall_Quinn]

Playing deep is one thing, but giving ground to the opposition midfield and retreating to cover space like a pitch wide zonal system is pants and doesn't suit us at all. We made Southampton look a lot better than they are. Give any professional time and space and he'll be able to play (apart from all of Stoke's players). Sit deep if you want but put some pressure on the ball too. Forwards have to run twice as hard (or some decide not to run at all) if the opponent always has the ball.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

My main bug was Wenger not moving Santi to the centre, dropping Arteta (who clearly wasn't ready) and putting Podolski out wide. We lacked any creativity in the centre despite our squad having the most number of AM's out of anyone around.

Also don't know why Wenger is so reluctant to start Podolski at times. He's such an effective player if used correctly.

[fakeyank]

My main bug was Wenger not moving Santi to the centre, dropping Arteta (who clearly wasn't ready) and putting Podolski out wide. We lacked any creativity in the centre despite our squad having the most number of AM's out of anyone around.

Also don't know why Wenger is so reluctant to start Podolski at times. He's such an effective player if used correctly.

:gp:

Pretty much

[Fist of Lehmann]

To an extent yes it does highlight how hard it can be at times, but it's not always this way.

Man Utd were 12 points clear this point last season, despite not playing that well and having dropped not that much fewer points than we have this season. It's just that everyone else was crap and no one else was consistent enough to put together a run to challenge for the league. City had thier problems with Mancini, Chelsea had the problems of Benitez/Di Matteo and we were our usual selves. If we were up against similar City and Chelsea teams this year, we've be storming the league right now (assuming the current Utd team with Moyes).

It's just our fucking luck isn't it? :sulk:

In trying to determine levels of difficulty, I'm not sure it makes sense to transpose two teams results from last year and not do the same for the eventual champions. Ultimately it would have required we overhaul 89 points, beating them would have helped of course, but we well know how easy we find that.

In the last 5 years the League winners have garnered 90, 86, 80, 89 & 89 points respectively, demanding you outlast the 3 richest clubs in league. Chances of success are heavily skewed in favour of one of these 3 and even then it took a manager like Fergie to keep the slightly less monied Utd in the hunt.

They don't always have great seasons but all three underperforming at the same time is unlikely. In this sense we aren't unlucky. This is just the level we have to perform at if we want win the League in any given season, and if everyone else happens to turn out to be crap that season, so much the better, but you couldn't count on it.

So yes, for any club outside those top 3 (albeit top 2 for the time being) winning the League is difficult. For anyone beyond us and Liverpool - extremely difficult to virtually impossible.

[Ollie the Optimist]

this thread is quite funny. talk about premature meltdown. its taken us five days and we are further ahead then we have been since December :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

It was a shit performance against Soton Ollie.

[fakeyank]

this thread is quite funny. talk about premature meltdown. its taken us five days and we are further ahead then we have been since December :lol:

Could be 4 points ahead now tbh..

[Letters]

Could be 4 points ahead now tbh..

We could be loads ahead if we'd won every game.
Or we could be well behind the top 2 if we hadn't dug in and won plenty of other games where we've not been great and it's been tight.

You're not going to win every game, you're not going to play well every game.
We're top of the fuckin' league, do we have to wring our hands and over-analyze every game as if Wenger's a c*** because we're not winning every game?

Tell you one thing for free, we'd have lost that game last year. We've become a lot better at getting points in games where we've not played well. We're 2 points above a side who have spunked a billion quid to buy success. I doubt we'll stay there but we're doing well to be anywhere near them let alone above them. Can people not shut up moaning for 5 sodding minutes? Jeez!

</rant>

[Niall_Quinn]

<script>
$('rant').replaceWith("We played shit in that first half.");
</script>

[Özim]

Tell you one thing for free, we'd have lost that game last year.

We drew 1-1 with them last season, so no.

[fakeyank]

We could be loads ahead if we'd won every game.
Or we could be well behind the top 2 if we hadn't dug in and won plenty of other games where we've not been great and it's been tight.

You're not going to win every game, you're not going to play well every game.
We're top of the fuckin' league, do we have to wring our hands and over-analyze every game as if Wenger's a c*** because we're not winning every game?

Tell you one thing for free, we'd have lost that game last year. We've become a lot better at getting points in games where we've not played well. We're 2 points above a side who have spunked a billion quid to buy success. I doubt we'll stay there but we're doing well to be anywhere near them let alone above them. Can people not shut up moaning for 5 sodding minutes? Jeez!

</rant>

No ones complaining tbh.. Ollie keeps digging up old match threads when relevant. Did we play shit in this game? Yes. What happened today does not change what happened in the past. It's like someone posting on first game of the season after a defeat. Does not help. Close old match threads, if thats the case..

[Letters]

We drew 1-1 with them last season, so no.

Nice WUMming but you know what I mean. For the slow of thinking though, I mean in a game where we played that poorly. This year our better defence and keeper is getting us results which gives us a chance. I still see us as 3rd favourites tbh but we're doing the sort of things which make me believe we've got a shot.

[Ollie the Optimist]

No ones complaining tbh.. Ollie keeps digging up old match threads when relevant. Did we play shit in this game? Yes. What happened today does not change what happened in the past. It's like someone posting on first game of the season after a defeat. Does not help. Close old match threads, if thats the case..

yeah given I've agreed we played shit in this game, it probably means I'm not trying say we didn't. reading this thread, a lot of people were calling for Arsene to be sacked, furious our title push was over, the threads that have appeared this week have been stupid asking if its all over then five days later, we are 2 points clear. i was laughing at the premature reaction and everyone thinking the season was over after our first draw in about 8 games

[Özim]

Noone says the season it over, that will happen in March.

[Letters]

Noone says the season it over, that will happen in March.

You hope...

[Özim]

You hope...

No, but that's will happen thanks to us signing noone in January (so not noone, we signed an injured guy) and the fact we can't beat any of the big sides and haven't been able to for quite a while now.

[Ollie the Optimist]

ah yes, how could we forget. the league is decided by if you win 6 games v the top 3 sides, not the 32 other games you play.

yes a weakness of ours is ability to win the big games (more away big games then home ones) yet we are top. In february, with a 2 point gap. you keep harping on about how we won't win the league because we don't beat the big teams, yet here we are, having played them all at least once, and we are still top.

[Özim]

A season is played over 38 games not 24 and we have a lot of tough games coming up in the next 2 months.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

A season is played over 38 games not 24 and we have a lot of tough games coming up in the next 2 months.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Niall_Quinn]

We do. And the transfer window is over now, we fucked it up and we go with what we have. All we can do is get behind the team, get behind the manager and encourage them in every way to give the 100% that will be required to win this thing. Fair enough having a moan about the shitty seasons over the last few years, but we're in this one, 2 points ahead after 22 games with the moneybags dopers in hot pursuit. No small achievement that and it deserves credit instead of constant picking and poking. Moaning has become a habit with you I think, you can't snap out of it when we are doing the things you wanted to see. Better defence, closing out games instead of chucking them, many players stepping up, Wenger getting his chequebook out big time. Can't do it all in one season but we've done a lot already.

[Letters]

:gp: