Anyone calling for Wenger to be sacked...

[Alan B'stard]

If he is shit, would you be fussed if he went to Chelsea, Man city or Spurs, say

[Kano]

no way should he be sacked now and he wont leave until the end of his contract guaranteed.

[LDG]

If he is shit, would you be fussed if he went to Chelsea, Man city or Spurs, say

I think most people would be sad to see him go, and upset that he hasn't managed to do what he set out to achieve.

But it's not a question of whether we are fussed. I think we all would be if he did what you say above.

It's a matter of principle for most fans, where it pains people to say, he is not doing the job he should be doing, and therefore, it leaves no option.

[Kano]

too many fans state that as fact with no knowledge of what is happening inside the club

i would imagine that the issues are far harder to rectify than shouting it at a game

[Cripps_orig]

Wouldnt mind if he went Chelsea or Man City. They wouldnt be challenging for the title but only for 4th place.

We dont want Spuds challenging for 4th though so would mind if he went there.

[Özim]

Wouldn't mind seeing him go to one of those clubs either, he won't spend any money and after a couple years they'd be passing the ball to death and not winning anything :lol:

[Letters]

He's not suddenly become a bad manager but I think he has become a little too principled.
Thing is I basically agree with his principles of not getting involved with the silly money transfer market (he has got involved with the silly money wages but he has no option there) but I think he could have spent a bit more without 'selling out' and given us a better chance of success.
He has done well to keep us top 4, I think people underestimate how well, but I do think he should move on now as I'm not sure he can take us any further. Which doesn't mean I think anyone else can in this era of the billionaire sugar-daddy.

[fakeyank]

He can F Off..

[Ernesto]

The mere thought of Wengerball backed up with endless amounts of money scares me.

For that reason, I wouldn't like him to go to Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City.

[budesonide]

he has become a little too principled.

ha; say it exactly how you really feel, letters. It is easy to be 'too' principled when you are under no pressure (to deliver).

[Power n Glory]

Been reading a few things on his days at Monaco and the stubborn pattern we see here didn't develop overnight. He was there for 7 years and won a league title and cup on his early years. Lost a Cup Winners Cup final, a string of Quarter and Semi final exits in Europe and a consistent record of finishing on the top 3. Finally got the sack when he finished 9th. Was a hero at first but fans grew tired of the lack of progression from what I've read. Trying to find out more.

His philosophy of keeping a team together and the youth set up comes from his love for Ajax and the Total Football years. He's trying to achieve the same at Arsenal but keeps hitting a brick wall. 7 year at Monaco and 1 league cup, 1 title isn't a great record. He won the title in his first season and after that it went down hill. I don't think he has it in him to get Arsenal out of this rut. His trend is to dig his heels in until sacked.

[Marc Overmars]

He is better than the respective managers of our rivals except for Fergie, so yes I would care if he left us for them.

[Joker]

I think we need a new manager, so it'll be a step in the right direction if he leaves. I would be indifferent to him joining Chelsea or City, because if he tries to implement the same, discredited philosophy that he's used in the last 5 years, then those clubs will stagnate in the same way we have.

[budesonide]

because if he tries to implement the same, discredited philosophy that he's used in the last 5 years, then those clubs will stagnate in the same way we have.

no; he will get sacked before he even thinks of it. haha

[Power n Glory]

Also, he had a chance to manage the French team and Bayern Munich. When sacked he went off to Japan to coach. Why? I think the Munich offer was still on the table after Munich. Why choose to go to Japan and off the radar when you could have gone to a bigger club?

[selassie]

Also, he had a chance to manage the French team and Bayern Munich. When sacked he went off to Japan to coach. Why? I think the Munich offer was still on the table after Munich. Why choose to go to Japan and off the radar when you could have gone to a bigger club?

I reckon he turned down Munich because of the pressure aspect. He could have gone to Madrid on a few occasions but wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes there either.

They absolutely would not put up with him using there first team as a nursery.

[Letters]

ha; say it exactly how you really feel, letters. It is easy to be 'too' principled when you are under no pressure (to deliver).

Define deliver. Had we slipped out of the top 4 then I suspect he'd have been long gone.
It's nonsense to say he's under no pressure but I think the board are too satisfied by perennial CL football and not bothered enough about trophies.

[Letters]

He can F Off..

Why do you think it's OK to be so disrespectful to just about the most important manager in our club's history?
Frustrated as I am with him and things at the club (and with football in general), I'd never be so disrespectful to Wenger. He's taken us places I never thought I'd see Arsenal go.

[Power n Glory]

I reckon he turned down Munich because of the pressure aspect. He could have gone to Madrid on a few occasions but wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes there either.

They absolutely would not put up with him using there first team as a nursery.

I think so. Under pressure, he can't cope. When he's the underdog he excels but when expected to deliver he buckles. I think the nerves get to him.

[Joker]

Define deliver. Had we slipped out of the top 4 then I suspect he'd have been long gone.
It's nonsense to say he's under no pressure but I think the board are too satisfied by perennial CL football and not bothered enough about trophies.

Exactly, the board are too obsessed with share prices, property values, the balance sheet etc etc. I'm not saying these aspects are not important, but you get the impression that the board know the price of everything but the value of nothing. This explains why PHW can write arrogant, disrespectful columns in the Daily Star criticising fans for having the temerity to question the direction of the club. "The share price is increasing, we're getting the revenue from UCL qualification, why are people unsatisfied?" is what he's thinking, because he's too much of a free market fundamentalist to understand the deeper reasons why we all follow the club.

[IBK]

@ the OP. I would be hugely fussed, because I think that initially he would eb very successful at Chavs and Citeh, working with players who know how to win things. He would also be kept on his toes and challenged - which would vastly increase his effectiveness.

Of course, it wouldn't happen, because he would not tolerate any reduction in the omnipotent status he has with us.

[Marc Overmars]

I think so. Under pressure, he can't cope. When he's the underdog he excels but when expected to deliver he buckles. I think the nerves get to him.

Bottling it has been a recurring theme for all of his teams.

99 FA Cup semi, losing to Leeds in the 99 title run in, Uefa Final 2000, FA Cup final 2001, 2003 title run in. The seeds were sown long before the Emirates era begun.

[Letters]

Bottling it has been a recurring theme for all of his teams.

99 FA Cup semi, losing to Leeds in the 99 title run in, Uefa Final 2000, FA Cup final 2001, 2003 title run in. The seeds were sown long before the Emirates era begun.

I don't think that's fair. It's easy to cherry pick big games we lost but there were loads we won too. Utd at Old Trafford in '98 in the title run in, again in 2002 to win the title, a few FA Cup finals

Did Utd bottle it in the FA Cup semi-final or CL Final this year? No team wins every big game.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think that's fair. It's easy to cherry pick big games we lost but there were loads we won too. Utd at Old Trafford in '98 in the title run in, again in 2002 to win the title, a few FA Cup finals

Did Utd bottle it in the FA Cup semi-final or CL Final this year? No team wins every big game.

I know you can;t win every big game but we lost the games I mentioned in an exceptional manner/circumstance which is what I wanted to allude to. Just like how we screw up in the same vein these days as well.

[Cripps_orig]

Bottling it has been a recurring theme for all of his teams.

99 FA Cup semi, losing to Leeds in the 99 title run in, Uefa Final 2000, FA Cup final 2001, 2003 title run in. The seeds were sown long before the Emirates era begun.
I was thinking about this recently.

Well more about the 2003 collapse than the others. That has been swept under the carpet for what we did the season after but in hindsight you can see, as you say the mentality issue was a problem then as well.

[AKBapologist]

If we replaced him with Pep Guardiola and spent 100mill in building a squad I couldn't give two shits where he went. If we replaced him with with some midtable dross like Hughes, I'd hope he went abroad tbh.

[IBK]

He's not suddenly become a bad manager but I think he has become a little too principled.
Thing is I basically agree with his principles of not getting involved with the silly money transfer market (he has got involved with the silly money wages but he has no option there) but I think he could have spent a bit more without 'selling out' and given us a better chance of success.
He has done well to keep us top 4, I think people underestimate how well, but I do think he should move on now as I'm not sure he can take us any further. Which doesn't mean I think anyone else can in this era of the billionaire sugar-daddy.

:clap: This



He has done well to keep us top 4, I think people underestimate how well, but I do think he should move on now as I'm not sure he can take us any further. Which doesn't mean I think anyone else can in this era of the billionaire sugar-daddy.


Is the most lucid summary I have read on the AW conundrum.

I defy anyone to be able to predict confidently that a successor would do better, because as much as I and almost everyone else have had enough of the frustration of seeing Wenger unwilling or unable to correct the obvious failings in our team, losing him will lose the other things that have made us able to compete in relative adversity. Being a mangnet for the best young talent; the technical excellence that he has fostered; the ability at (albeit increasingly infrequent) time to play Barca-style total football; the reputation with which he enhances the club.

Winning trophies is very, very difficult. We should not confuse our desperation to at least try something new with the likelihood that it will be better.

[Cripps_orig]

Winning trophies is very, very difficult. We should not confuse our desperation to at least try something new with the likelihood that it will be better.

Is it?

Since we last won a trophy, all of our major rivals for the title/CL places have won something. In fact if it wasnt for a bout of Rafaitis that struck Liverpool, they'd be much better placed atm as well.

Even Birmingham have won something since 2005

[Kano]

Winning trophies is very, very difficult. We should not confuse our desperation to at least try something new with the likelihood that it will be better.

and writing about it and shouting from the stands is far easier when you know you don't have to back it up

[LDG]

Well, quite, Terry. But we're fans of the club, and this is a message board to debate that club.

If you're gonna say that to everyone, we might as well abandon the site and all fuck off. Then we can just sit in silence (irony there) at the emirates, and just thank our lucky stars that we've just paid £100 + on a day out to watch the same old shite.

[Letters]

Winning trophies is very, very difficult. We should not confuse our desperation to at least try something new with the likelihood that it will be better.

The thing which is most frustrating about Arsenal right now is that watching them play sometimes we're clearly good enough to be winning trophies. A Spurs supporting friend said that in the first half hour at WHL we were the best side he'd seen there this season. But then it went back to 3-2, the heads went down and instead of pushing on and winning it we dropped points from a commanding 3-1 position. It's the combination of knowing we're good enough to win trophies but having no belief that we actually will which is so maddening.

[Kano]

Well, quite, Terry. But we're fans of the club, and this is a message board to debate that club.

If you're gonna say that to everyone, we might as well abandon the site and all fuck off. Then we can just sit in silence (irony there) at the emirates, and just thank our lucky stars that we've just paid £100 + on a day out to watch the same old shite.

debate doesn't = fact which seems to be the case for too many at the games. there's debate then there's hysteria which is what fans are boardering on and this is far from a crisis but when your head is invaded by so much football 'analysis' on tv, internet, radio etc then it just keeps it stirring. £100 for same old shite? winning most games and going home happy more often than not? that's what i mean about hysteria.

[IBK]

Yes it is. You know as well as I do that the likes of Birmingham can win the CC out of a mixture of other sides' apathy and sheer unadulterated good luck. Same goes to an extent for the FA Cup these days.

Look at our major rivals - the Chavs who have hired really top class managers and spant massively on the right players. Manure who have arguably the best manager this country has ever seen, and Citeh who have had to spend 100's of millions to buy the FA Cup.

It is ridiculous to argue that winning cups - at least proper ones - is anything other than very difficult.

[LDG]

debate doesn't = fact which seems to be the case for too many at the games. there's debate then there's hysteria which is what fans are boardering on and this is far from a crisis but when your head is invaded by so much football 'analysis' on tv, internet, radio etc then it just keeps it stirring. £100 for same old shite? winning most games and going home happy more often than not? that's what i mean about hysteria.

No. Most people are being very considered in their opinions tbh. None of this is kneejerk reaction. Some may well be more vorciferous / extreme in their views. But to most it is obvious that the same failings have happened for the last three / four years.

Most have been patient with the club, and supported the policies that have been upheld by Wenger and Co. these last six years.

But there does come a point, that when the glaringly obvious, even to the most unknowledgable football fan, is not corrected, you have to question the managers decisions.

[Kano]

considered? not from where i've been sitting (standing) they haven't been.
no problem questioning but a lot of the nonsense said is ridiculous, utter garbage when questions and debate become fact.

[LDG]

So you're saying it's just bad luck we've capitulated so badly this year??

[Kano]

sure why not, if thats what you've taken from what i said

[budesonide]

Define deliver. Had we slipped out of the top 4 then I suspect he'd have been long gone.
It's nonsense to say he's under no pressure but I think the board are too satisfied by perennial CL football and not bothered enough about trophies.

i meant "pressure" and "deliver" in the sense of performing at one of the top clubs in europe and the world today.

and i seriously doubt wenger would have been sacked any of the previous seasons had we fallen out of the top four. I highly doubt that.

qualifying for the CL means our resources are not unduly that stretched (based on my knowledge of our loan that I have read). So unless we slipped completely into midtable mediocrity i doubt this board have the cajones and vision to sack wenger.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

for all his warts.....Wenger has almost won the right to choose when he walks, no amount of griping is going to se him get booted out the door.

He has become very stuck in his ways and a new side to him, the one that gets irratated andcomes out with a lot of twoddle post match, has become more and more evident, so much so it does make you wish he shut the hell up however

he is arguably the most successful manager we have ever had and will be given another chance under the regime that we have at the club. How much patience they show, especially if things continue along the same lines is something we will have to wait and see.

What I hope is that Wenger regains so of that famed intelligence to anaylsis what has happened to every facet or the club both good and bad.

The fact that we were turned down by Jones gives me the slightest tinge of hope (Mindless Optimist Clique member speaking!:)) as it shows that we were tryimng for one of the better players that was being touted about. What we need now, is not for AW to sit back and say "Well I tried! but he didn"t want to come, so I will go back to scouring the French second division" - he needs to get on his bike and go after another top target, Samba or the slightly expensive Cahill.......what we need at the back should be PL tested and why not someone who has seen the ugly side of the league, the relegation battle........would be better than someone who has a degree in 'square ball passing'

[AKBapologist]

I think the real question is, would you expect our club to adequately replace Wenger with a manager with an exemplary record of success at other clubs?

Or do you think any mid table mongolid can do better than AW at Arsenal?

[Japan Shaking All Over]

to be honest I think it is a quality manager that we would be able to attract (more so than players)

with a manager they are often looking for a challenge and unlike players not always looking for immediate success

the chance to build something in their own vision is what managers get a major buzz......as long as they have the backing of the board (shit.......listen to me......sounds like someone we know??)

[LDG]

sure why not, if thats what you've taken from what i said

You haven't said anything, other than knock down the opinion of all and sundry with one stroke, so I have no idea what you think. Hence why I asked the question.

[Darth Vela]

Well, I don't want Wenger sacked (yet) but imo it would be awful if he went to another club. United have a (possibly) better manager but if Chelsea or City got hold of him it'd be a bloodbath, all that money along with his ability to get the best out of players (which he does have, despite all claims to the contrary) and a team would be scary.

Ofc, he'd never go so it's all academic.

[V-Pig]

:bedwetting:



Of course I'd be upset. He's the best manager in the world and a dangerous weapon for the enemy to steal.

[Letters]

Of course I'd be upset. He's the best manager in the world

:lol: Behave!
He's up there but the best. Really?

[GP]

Not saying he's the best, but he's definitely in the top 1.


Someone said that once, I think it was Nigel Clough.

[V-Pig]

:lol: Behave!
He's up there but the best. Really?

Tbh, he's been there for so long, I can't remember Arsenal before him. I'm only 22. To me, he is Arsenal.

[Letters]

Tbh, he's been there for so long, I can't remember Arsenal before him. I'm only 22. To me, he is Arsenal.

If you remembered Arsenal before Wenger you'd appreciate him even more (which makes it even more shocking how people disrespect him on here if you ask me, despite the frustrations of the last few years he doesn't deserve that).
But he's not the best manager in the world. Up there though.

[Mr. Lahey]

Is it?

Since we last won a trophy, all of our major rivals for the title/CL places have won something. In fact if it wasnt for a bout of Rafaitis that struck Liverpool, they'd be much better placed atm as well.

Even Birmingham have won something since 2005

Interesting stat that and I believe that is a very telling one as well. Im surprised nobody has commented on this. It sure isnt easy to win them but how long has it been now, 6 years? We havent progressed one bit while you could argue that all our rivals have.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you remembered Arsenal before Wenger you'd appreciate him even more (which makes it even more shocking how people disrespect him on here if you ask me, despite the frustrations of the last few years he doesn't deserve that).
But he's not the best manager in the world. Up there though.

Wenger does his own fair share of disrespecting the fans with his bullshit about team spirit and building for the future, etc, etc, ad nauseum. The trouble he's got is fewer and fewer fans believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He asked for time and he got it, he got far more patience than he would have enjoyed at our (alleged) competitors. I doubt even Fergie would have survived the garbage Wenger has served up over the last few years, the calls for him to be put out to pasture would have been deafening. As for Chelsea, City and Pool, we all know the story there and yet for all their turmoil two of those clubs came back and finished above us as we conspired to throw the season away again. What we witnessed (again) this year was a shocking failure and if a manager's position can't be questioned after a performance like that then when is it valid to asks questions? Should he go? Of course he should. That's what happens to managers who fail in this game. Should he be allowed to stay based on past glories? No. That's not how it happens in this game.

For those who forgive his every fuck up because we as fans don't really know what's happening inside the club - WHO CARES? We do know what's happening in the pitch and it's not good enough, not by a long shot. And whatever some fans mistakenly believe, yes we are entitled to comment on what goes on on the pitch. And the people who have paid a fortune to sit there and watch it while their money is used to keep the club running, absolutely they have a say. In fact their say should rank above all others. Anyone who wants to sit their with their mouth taped shut regardless of what happens simply because they feel inadequate, fine go ahead, but don't be trying to impose your head-burying antics on the rest of us. You don't need a coaching badge to realise how bad we were in the title run-in this year, and last year, and the year before, and the year before. How many times should Wenger be allowed to fail? Is that what we're in this game for, to fail? Again and again and again it's been said it's not the lack of trophies that irritates the hell out of some fans. It's the decline in the standard of football, the failure to correct obvious problems, the self-evidently flawed transfer policies and the sheer fucking arrogance coming out of the boardroom and the manager's office. So fine, if Wenger and his cronies want respect then it's a two way street. About time somebody at the club started paying attention to the fans again, the fans being the paying customers who keep the whole damn operation running. And if they want respect then they'd better start earning it, the manager, the players, teh board, the fucking lot of them. How are you meant to respect an outfit the capitulates so readily, if the instruction is to respect losers then the resounding response it no, no fucking way.

[budesonide]

Wenger does his own fair share of disrespecting the fans with his bullshit about team spirit and building for the future, etc, etc, ad nauseum. The trouble he's got is fewer and fewer fans believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He asked for time and he got it, he got far more patience than he would have enjoyed at our (alleged) competitors. I doubt even Fergie would have survived the garbage Wenger has served up over the last few years, the calls for him to be put out to pasture would have been deafening. As for Chelsea, City and Pool, we all know the story there and yet for all their turmoil two of those clubs came back and finished above us as we conspired to throw the season away again. What we witnessed (again) this year was a shocking failure and if a manager's position can't be questioned after a performance like that then when is it valid to asks questions? Should he go? Of course he should. That's what happens to managers who fail in this game. Should he be allowed to stay based on past glories? No. That's not how it happens in this game.

For those who forgive his every fuck up because we as fans don't really know what's happening inside the club - WHO CARES? We do know what's happening in the pitch and it's not good enough, not by a long shot. And whatever some fans mistakenly believe, yes we are entitled to comment on what goes on on the pitch. And the people who have paid a fortune to sit there and watch it while their money is used to keep the club running, absolutely they have a say. In fact their say should rank above all others. Anyone who wants to sit their with their mouth taped shut regardless of what happens simply because they feel inadequate, fine go ahead, but don't be trying to impose your head-burying antics on the rest of us. You don't need a coaching badge to realise how bad we were in the title run-in this year, and last year, and the year before, and the year before. How many times should Wenger be allowed to fail? Is that what we're in this game for, to fail? Again and again and again it's been said it's not the lack of trophies that irritates the hell out of some fans. It's the decline in the standard of football, the failure to correct obvious problems, the self-evidently flawed transfer policies and the sheer fucking arrogance coming out of the boardroom and the manager's office. So fine, if Wenger and his cronies want respect then it's a two way street. About time somebody at the club started paying attention to the fans again, the fans being the paying customers who keep the whole damn operation running. And if they want respect then they'd better start earning it, the manager, the players, teh board, the fucking lot of them. How are you meant to respect an outfit the capitulates so readily, if the instruction is to respect losers then the resounding response it no, no fucking way.

top post, mate.

Wenger has the nerve to say people are being impatient! And we are the disrespectful ones?

It is astonishing -- he is on 6 farking million a year and can't get his team to win a bloody carling cup final against birmingham or prevent his team from collapsing come end of season run-in.

[Power n Glory]

His words - "judge me at the end of the season".

That time has come and I don't want here any more calls for patients, time or hear any attempts to shift the goal posts and Wenger moaning as if the criteria he's being judged on is unfair. He's had his chance and that's it for me. We need a change of direction and Wenger has a few months to get his team in order otherwise the echoes of boos around the stadium will start early.

[Cripps_orig]

Interesting stat that and I believe that is a very telling one as well. Im surprised nobody has commented on this. It sure isnt easy to win them but how long has it been now, 6 years? We havent progressed one bit while you could argue that all our rivals have.

Forgot Portsmouth in that. That's 2 clubs who are now plying their trade in the Championship that has won something since we last did.

Sure its not easy to win a trophy but for a club like us that has been there or thereabouts in the trophy hunt for the last 6 seasons but to come short all the time tells me there is a problem and that problem is the manager.

He just doesn't have what it takes to take this team that extra step and win something. His refusal to change his ways has cost us dearly and no real progress in the 6 years is worrying cos as you said, the others are improving. Liverpool had a shocking season under Rafa and he was let go. They were awful with Hodgson and he was gone. Whilst we haven't been that shite yet, its only a matter of time. Either Wenger sees sense or our board should be ruthless before we drop out of the top 4. The season just passed was arguably our worst under Wenger. It was full of embarrassment and humiliation and if Wenger wasn't in last chance saloon before, he surely must be now. Certainly with the fans at least if not the board who unfortunately are more interested in the money.

Wenger is the new Brian Clough tbh. Not the Clough that won trophies but the one who overstayed his welcome and took Forest down.

[Mr. Lahey]

Forgot Portsmouth in that. That's 2 clubs who are now plying their trade in the Championship that has won something since we last did.

Sure its not easy to win a trophy but for a club like us that has been there or thereabouts in the trophy hunt for the last 6 seasons but to come short all the time tells me there is a problem and that problem is the manager.

He just doesn't have what it takes to take this team that extra step and win something. His refusal to change his ways has cost us dearly and no real progress in the 6 years is worrying cos as you said, the others are improving. Liverpool had a shocking season under Rafa and he was let go. They were awful with Hodgson and he was gone. Whilst we haven't been that shite yet, its only a matter of time. Either Wenger sees sense or our board should be ruthless before we drop out of the top 4. The season just passed was arguably our worst under Wenger. It was full of embarrassment and humiliation and if Wenger wasn't in last chance saloon before, he surely must be now. Certainly with the fans at least if not the board who unfortunately are more interested in the money.

Wenger is the new Brian Clough tbh. Not the Clough that won trophies but the one who overstayed his welcome and took Forest down.

agree with all of that mate

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Forgot Portsmouth in that. That's 2 clubs who are now plying their trade in the Championship that has won something since we last did.

Sure its not easy to win a trophy but for a club like us that has been there or thereabouts in the trophy hunt for the last 6 seasons but to come short all the time tells me there is a problem and that problem is the manager.

He just doesn't have what it takes to take this team that extra step and win something. His refusal to change his ways has cost us dearly and no real progress in the 6 years is worrying cos as you said, the others are improving. Liverpool had a shocking season under Rafa and he was let go. They were awful with Hodgson and he was gone. Whilst we haven't been that shite yet, its only a matter of time. Either Wenger sees sense or our board should be ruthless before we drop out of the top 4. The season just passed was arguably our worst under Wenger. It was full of embarrassment and humiliation and if Wenger wasn't in last chance saloon before, he surely must be now. Certainly with the fans at least if not the board who unfortunately are more interested in the money.

Wenger is the new Brian Clough tbh. Not the Clough that won trophies but the one who overstayed his welcome and took Forest down.


Wenger is the new Brian Clough tbh

interesting comparison!


Whilst we haven't been that shite yet

agreed! but I seem to remember people saying that Forest were too good to go down and were definitely winning the sympathy vote from most of the nation but even that wasn't good enough to keep them up.
Whilst I can absolutely not see us going down or Wenger being sacked the tick of the clock gets louder every season we come up empty handed. Last season may not have been considered such a disaster if we hadn't capitulated so easily. This has a lot to do with the players and even Wenger was trying to say the right things to the press, he was either not repeating those words to the players or they were just plain simple not listening.

Wenger will feel the heat even more this year, if you though the talk of a trophy less 5 years was loud last year then wait till the season gets closer next. A manager will have to sell his ideas to the board and I am starting to think that Wenger's pitch is losing its shine and just as his words fell on deaf ears in the dressing room so they might in the boardroom if he doesn't address the situation. I, in no way hate AW, I respect him as a manager and what he has done for the club makes me proud to be a Gooner but we have all had to admit we are/were wrong at some stage of our life and doing so can for some be the most difficult thing, but we do it for a reason and that reason is because we want the future to be different.......better.....we want to be friends again with a person we respect.

AW that time is now. I think most are willing to give you another chance (some are not) but that chance is for you to do something with. To make us believers again.

I cannot say whether Wenger will ever change but if he can't then it may be time to walk away. For the time being I was encouraged by the fact that we went to see Phil Jones, we may not have gone as high as 17mil but the fact that he refused us shows that we did offer something. I would like to see Wenger not give up, Jones is out of the picture but we all know there are a couple of others waiting for an approach, can't see ManU buying another defender now......time for us to step up. Losing Cesc will not be the end of the world but not replacing or improving the stark dark areas will be.

sorry rant over......for now

[Letters]

Wenger does his own fair share of disrespecting the fans with his bullshit about team spirit and building for the future, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Well I agree that does grate


As for Chelsea, City and Pool, we all know the story there and yet for all their turmoil two of those clubs came back and finished above us as we conspired to throw the season away again.

Yes. The two who have billionaire owners and have thrown silly money around. I'd be the first to bemoan Wenger's frugality and he should have spent more but there's no way we can compete with City or Chelsea. We should have finished above both this year and the collapse was embarrassing but we can't compete with clubs who can throw hundreds of millions around like they can.


What we witnessed (again) this year was a shocking failure and if a manager's position can't be questioned after a performance like that then when is it valid to asks questions?

I've been very clear that I think Wenger should go.
That doesn't mean I'll ever disrespect the man, I've seen Arsenal do things I never thought I'd see. The double. Twice. An unbeaten league season. A style of football I never dreamed of under Graham.
Whatever you think about the new stadium, it is a neccessary evil in the modern game and we could not have moved - would not have been at the level to do so - but for Wenger.
For all the failings of the last few years Wenger does NOT deserve some of the disrespect I see on here.

[Letters]

Wenger is the new Brian Clough tbh. Not the Clough that won trophies but the one who overstayed his welcome and took Forest down.

That's an interesting comparison. Clough took Forest places their fans could never have dreamed of. He did stay too long and ended up getting them relegated and yet he's still a hero to the Forest fans.
Wenger has done the same for us, all we've done is drop to the bottom of the top 4 rather than the top 4 and he's abused by a load of spoilt brat fans on here like he has got us relegated. It's disgraceful IMO. Questions need to be asked certainly and I do think it's time for him to go (scary as I find the idea) but I'll never disrespect him.

[selassie]

Wenger does his own fair share of disrespecting the fans with his bullshit about team spirit and building for the future, etc, etc, ad nauseum. The trouble he's got is fewer and fewer fans believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He asked for time and he got it, he got far more patience than he would have enjoyed at our (alleged) competitors. I doubt even Fergie would have survived the garbage Wenger has served up over the last few years, the calls for him to be put out to pasture would have been deafening. As for Chelsea, City and Pool, we all know the story there and yet for all their turmoil two of those clubs came back and finished above us as we conspired to throw the season away again. What we witnessed (again) this year was a shocking failure and if a manager's position can't be questioned after a performance like that then when is it valid to asks questions? Should he go? Of course he should. That's what happens to managers who fail in this game. Should he be allowed to stay based on past glories? No. That's not how it happens in this game.

For those who forgive his every fuck up because we as fans don't really know what's happening inside the club - WHO CARES? We do know what's happening in the pitch and it's not good enough, not by a long shot. And whatever some fans mistakenly believe, yes we are entitled to comment on what goes on on the pitch. And the people who have paid a fortune to sit there and watch it while their money is used to keep the club running, absolutely they have a say. In fact their say should rank above all others. Anyone who wants to sit their with their mouth taped shut regardless of what happens simply because they feel inadequate, fine go ahead, but don't be trying to impose your head-burying antics on the rest of us. You don't need a coaching badge to realise how bad we were in the title run-in this year, and last year, and the year before, and the year before. How many times should Wenger be allowed to fail? Is that what we're in this game for, to fail? Again and again and again it's been said it's not the lack of trophies that irritates the hell out of some fans. It's the decline in the standard of football, the failure to correct obvious problems, the self-evidently flawed transfer policies and the sheer fucking arrogance coming out of the boardroom and the manager's office. So fine, if Wenger and his cronies want respect then it's a two way street. About time somebody at the club started paying attention to the fans again, the fans being the paying customers who keep the whole damn operation running. And if they want respect then they'd better start earning it, the manager, the players, teh board, the fucking lot of them. How are you meant to respect an outfit the capitulates so readily, if the instruction is to respect losers then the resounding response it no, no fucking way.

Really Excellent post :gp:

[Letters]

Really Excellent post :gp:

It is a good post but it's a strange response to my point which was about the level of disrespect shown to Wenger, not the questioning of him or thinking it's time for him to move on.

[Özim]

Forgot Portsmouth in that. That's 2 clubs who are now plying their trade in the Championship that has won something since we last did.

Sure its not easy to win a trophy but for a club like us that has been there or thereabouts in the trophy hunt for the last 6 seasons but to come short all the time tells me there is a problem and that problem is the manager.

He just doesn't have what it takes to take this team that extra step and win something. His refusal to change his ways has cost us dearly and no real progress in the 6 years is worrying cos as you said, the others are improving. Liverpool had a shocking season under Rafa and he was let go. They were awful with Hodgson and he was gone. Whilst we haven't been that shite yet, its only a matter of time. Either Wenger sees sense or our board should be ruthless before we drop out of the top 4. The season just passed was arguably our worst under Wenger. It was full of embarrassment and humiliation and if Wenger wasn't in last chance saloon before, he surely must be now. Certainly with the fans at least if not the board who unfortunately are more interested in the money.

Wenger is the new Brian Clough tbh. Not the Clough that won trophies but the one who overstayed his welcome and took Forest down.
Great post that's spot on.

[Marc Overmars]

I will reserve my judgment until August 31st, if we have beaten around the bush in the Market again then I think it's safe to say Wenger will never change. He's never felt heat like this before and if it still isn't enough to make him sit up and take note then nothing will. The guy is a legend and what he's done for the club will never, ever be taken away, however the expectation of landing a trophy is not unreasonable at all and I really feel as though he's becoming the biggest obstacle we need to clear before we can move forward again. I don't understand how someone with so much good in them can also be so flawed.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It is a good post but it's a strange response to my point which was about the level of disrespect shown to Wenger, not the questioning of him or thinking it's time for him to move on.

Whilst Respect has to be earnt it can also be lost. Just because he had most fans respect a few years ago, it doesnt mean he's just gonna keep it.

The respect for him has been on the wane for a while now.

[V-Pig]

On Football Manager, I manage Lewes FC, who came from the BSS, and who are now in League 1 after 3 seasons. I achieved this through a patient mixture of promising youth prospects and creating new managers at Barcelona and Man City who gave me hundreds of millions of pounds for dud players. After I'd made my fake manager, Shithead Loserface, retire from football, leaving these big clubs with no transfer kitty, they signed new managers to fill the void. Barcelona's first replacement was Arsene Wenger, who turned his back on Arsenal immediately, and Arsenal were left to sign Roberto Mancini as a replacement. The next time I temporarily took over Barcelona and made them buy a 34-yo fat, balding striker for £110m, Roberto Mancini declared his interest in becoming their new manager, prompting an angry response from the Arsenal fans who had put faith in him.

The lesson here is that Barca want Arsene Wenger and Mancini is a cunt.

[Letters]

Whilst Respect has to be earnt it can also be lost. Just because he had most fans respect a few years ago, it doesnt mean he's just gonna keep it.

The respect for him has been on the wane for a while now.

Well, like I said Clough ended up taking Forest down and he's still a legend for their fans.
All Wenger's done is taken us from the top of the top 4 to the bottom. We're not in mid-table let alone fighting relegation. He's made some strange decisions, he's maddeningly stubborn and his inability to motivate the teams at time is depressing. But he's not done anything to deserve the level of disrespect he is shown on here.
IMO.

[Özim]

It is a good post but it's a strange response to my point which was about the level of disrespect shown to Wenger, not the questioning of him or thinking it's time for him to move on.
The thing is though, he's quite insulting at times, all the cr*p he comes out with, pointing the finger at he fans in some scenarios. He doesn't seem to be that bothered about the fans these days, his players, finances and his policies are seemingly all he cares about.

He's incredibly patronising too and people never respond well to that, if he was more honest he might get a different reaction.

[LDG]

It is a good post but it's a strange response to my point which was about the level of disrespect shown to Wenger, not the questioning of him or thinking it's time for him to move on.

Don't think there's many that disrespect him mate.

But you do lose respect awfully quickly in this game....and let's not forget, that to a certain degree, he's playing with our own hard earned money. If someone turns around to you and says "shut up, you don't know what you're takling about, what do you know, be patient" when all you've seen over the last few years is an embarrassment; and you then have to walk into work / the pub / anywhere that knows you're a gooner, and get the fucking piss ripped out of you....don't you think resepct for such a man may well dwindle, despite all the good he's done for the club.

You can't live on past glories forever. Why? Because if you're slowly breaking apart all that good work, because you're too stubborn to see the obvious, you will lose respect. Nobody respects a fool.

I hope and pray (as we're stuck with Wenger for the time being) he pulls the pieces into place. I want him to succeed desperately, because, for all his failings these past years, I'd love to see the guy win something. Whatever you say about him, it's not like he's lazy...he works his bollocks off for the club. but he needs to be ruthless this summer. Make BIG changes. Change the attitude of the club from top to bottom. And until the fans see that happening, he's on a hiding to nothing I'm afraid.

[V-Pig]

The board consider my decision to let Steve Brooker (of Doncaster fame) go to Real Madrid for £100m to be an aberration. But they're the ones who went over my head and decided to take the decision into their own hands because the fee involved was so great.

There's just no justice in the world.

[LDG]

The board consider my decision to let Steve Brooker (of Doncaster fame) go to Real Madrid for £100m to be an aberration. But they're the ones who went over my head and decided to take the decision into their own hands because the fee involved was so great.

There's just no justice in the world.

Are you on crack?

[GP]

Well, like I said Clough ended up taking Forest down and he's still a legend for their fans.
All Wenger's done is taken us from the top of the top 4 to the bottom. We're not in mid-table let alone fighting relegation. He's made some strange decisions, he's maddeningly stubborn and his inability to motivate the teams at time is depressing. But he's not done anything to deserve the level of disrespect he is shown on here.
IMO.

Good post

[Coney]

Well, like I said Clough ended up taking Forest down and he's still a legend for their fans.
All Wenger's done is taken us from the top of the top 4 to the bottom. We're not in mid-table let alone fighting relegation. He's made some strange decisions, he's maddeningly stubborn and his inability to motivate the teams at time is depressing. But he's not done anything to deserve the level of disrespect he is shown on here.
IMO.

I think that is right. People often say Wenger out but dont offer a realistic alternative even if they offer one at all. He is still our must successful manager ever and while it is frustrating missing out at the end it is still true that apart from 3 or 4 clubs, all other clubs in the English leagues would love to have our 'problem'.

[selassie]

The board consider my decision to let Steve Brooker (of Doncaster fame) go to Real Madrid for £100m to be an aberration. But they're the ones who went over my head and decided to take the decision into their own hands because the fee involved was so great.

There's just no justice in the world.

:lol:

[Letters]

Don't think there's many that disrespect him mate.

Have you not seen this place?!
I agree with the rest of your post but the way some people post about Wenger on here is massively disrespectful IMO.
I don't think it's warranted.

[LDG]

Have you not seen this place?!
I agree with the rest of your post but the way some people post about Wenger on here is massively disrespectful IMO.
I don't think it's warranted.

Most of that is bourne out of frustration though, and I can understand why. If you did a poll as to whether people respect Wenger, even if they don't think he's the right man anymore, I think you'd come out around 90% who do respect him. On his final match, whenever that might be, I think you'd find the whole stadium rising to it's feet, and with a lot of heartfelt thanks.

[Letters]

On his final match, whenever that might be, I think you'd find the whole stadium rising to it's feet, and with a lot of heartfelt thanks.

I'm sure you're right. And I understand the frustrations, I share them. But I'd never write about Wenger the way some people do on here. It's uncalled for IMO.

[Power n Glory]

So instead of saying "Wenger should F... off somewhere else", you gently say "I think it's time for him to go".

It's the same message and not just 'spoilt brats' voicing their frustration. Did you boo the players off during the Fulham game, join in with the 'spend some money chants' or walk out early during the final game? Isn't that just as 'disrespectful' or just expressing your frustration?

[Letters]

So instead of saying "Wenger should F... off somewhere else", you gently say "I think it's time for him to go".

Yes


It's the same message and not just 'spoilt brats' voicing their frustration.

Well it's not really the same is it? And it does come across as spoilt brattish at times.


Did you boo the players off during the Fulham game, join in with the 'spend some money chants' or walk out early during the final game? Isn't that just as 'disrespectful' or just expressing your frustration?

Yes, no and no respectively (although I didn't stay for the lap of 'appreciation').
And no I don't think any of those things are as disrespectful as the way some write about Wenger on here.

[budesonide]

Well, like I said Clough ended up taking Forest down and he's still a legend for their fans.
All Wenger's done is taken us from the top of the top 4 to the bottom. We're not in mid-table let alone fighting relegation. He's made some strange decisions, he's maddeningly stubborn and his inability to motivate the teams at time is depressing. But he's not done anything to deserve the level of disrespect he is shown on here.
IMO.

so AW should get us relegated before the more vocal fans start swearing and cursing blood about what the fuc*k is going on or he is up to?

When the noble supporters trust humbly voinced their concerns as to wtf was going on a couple of months ago, PWH in similar fashion to AW's dismissive tone, called the fans idiots.

A couple of years ago at the annual meeting when a supporter asked wtf AW will choose to sign an over the hill ex-player of a rival club, he dodged the issue and instead questioned the fan's loyalty to the players and club.

He said we should judge him in may and that HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING and IS GOING TO DO IT HIS WAY, only for him to move goalposts and try to redefine success and make excuses!

He is raking in farking 6mil a year. He is not doing a charitable service.

[Letters]

so AW should get us relegated before the more vocal fans start swearing and cursing blood about what the fuc*k is going on or he is up to?

Well no, my point is the way some people post about him it's as though he had.
All we've done is slipped from 1st to 4th. We should be doing better, I share the frustrations, I think it's time we looked elsewhere, but there's no call for some of the disrespect some are showing to him. IMO.

[budesonide]

Well no, my point is the way some people post about him it's as though he had.
All we've done is slipped from 1st to 4th. We should be doing better, I share the frustrations, I think it's time we looked elsewhere, but there's no call for some of the disrespect some are showing to him. IMO.

He is doing exactly the same thing, not with 'fuc*k off', coc*k, cun*t, etc but rather with utter dismissiveness -- and to me that is far worse!

This man has the nerve to say people are being impatient -- REALLY? That is worse than he saying we can go fuc*k ourselves.

[Power n Glory]

Yes



Well it's not really the same is it? And it does come across as spoilt brattish at times.



Yes, no and no respectively (although I didn't stay for the lap of 'appreciation').
And no I don't think any of those things are as disrespectful as the way some write about Wenger on here.

A year ago, booing your own team off was considered brattish and counter productive. Now look.

Just leave people to get on with it.

[Niall_Quinn]

It is a good post but it's a strange response to my point which was about the level of disrespect shown to Wenger, not the questioning of him or thinking it's time for him to move on.

Was in response to several posts really, not just yours. Any criticism I have of Wenger is reserved entirely to his role as the manager of Arsenal. I don't know the bloke personally. I don't believe (many of) the fans have any personal animosity towards the guy, some just want him out of the club so we can move on. There's a level of frustration that's being expressed, built up over several years. I don't want to see him verbally abused or attacked in person either and I think any fans who go that route might want to be careful as they could receive a dig in the gob from the fan beside them. Yes I remember what he did in the past, but in football it's all about what you've done for me lately, that's just the way it is. The business of winning is ongoing and glory is fleeting.

[Letters]

A year ago, booing your own team off was considered brattish and counter productive.

No it wasn't.

[LDG]

Tbh, I think most hardcore gooners have been exceptionally patient really.

Most understand the necessity of what the club had to do six years ago.

What they don't understand, is why, now, the policies that were adopted are not adapted....especially given their failings.

Furthermore, regardless of money and transfers and all the big lovely things fans get so excited about, the basics of the game on the pitch have been ignored, and even the most ardent supporter of Wenger must be tearing their hair out wondering why, after the same errors in three/four years, have they not been sorted out.

Therefore; having exercised patience, having been laughed at, having watched the dismal end to the season, only to be told "be patient", strikes a very sore nerve.

There was a balance struck at the begining of last season. The "Wenger Out" brigade were shouted down. But the culmination of the same mistakes, the same unwillingness to strengthen, and the childlike behaviour of our manager on the sidelines has tipped that balance. Quite rightly, some of our fans are furious, and we all know what raw anger does.

Like I said before. Wenger is not going to be sacked, but I do think all fans should be putting the pressure on the club to do what is right. But on 9th June, we actually do have to be patient over the summer.....but, there will be a whole different shit storm if we start the season unchanged, and with the same rooky errors.

Therefore, I say, lump the pressure on the club. It's time the fans got up and spoke. There is no room for further patience IMO.

[Maestro]

fantastic post LDG


Tbh, I think most hardcore gooners have been exceptionally patient really.

Most understand the necessity of what the club had to do six years ago.

What they don't understand, is why, now, the policies that were adopted are not adapted....especially given their failings.

Furthermore, regardless of money and transfers and all the big lovely things fans get so excited about, the basics of the game on the pitch have been ignored, and even the most ardent supporter of Wenger must be tearing their hair out wondering why, after the same errors in three/four years, have they not been sorted out.

Therefore; having exercised patience, having been laughed at, having watched the dismal end to the season, only to be told "be patient", strikes a very sore nerve.

There was a balance struck at the begining of last season. The "Wenger Out" brigade were shouted down. But the culmination of the same mistakes, the same unwillingness to strengthen, and the childlike behaviour of our manager on the sidelines has tipped that balance. Quite rightly, some of our fans are furious, and we all know what raw anger does.

Like I said before. Wenger is not going to be sacked, but I do think all fans should be putting the pressure on the club to do what is right. But on 9th June, we actually do have to be patient over the summer.....but, there will be a whole different shit storm if we start the season unchanged, and with the same rooky errors.

Therefore, I say, lump the pressure on the club. It's time the fans got up and spoke. There is no room for further patience IMO.

[Power n Glory]

No it wasn't.

Yes it was. Maybe not a year ago but when Eboue was booed off a few people on were a little snobbish as if such a thing was below them. Not sure if you were in that camp but there was a discussion and people saying people looking down on others with a certain attitude.

There has always been that attitude on here from a select few. Say nothing and 'Wenger knows best' was the phrase. There is no need to go OTT over a few off hand comments. It's not as if Wenger has been pelted with rotten eggs or anything.

[budesonide]

Was in response to several posts really, not just yours. Any criticism I have of Wenger is reserved entirely to his role as the manager of Arsenal. I don't know the bloke personally. I don't believe (many of) the fans have any personal animosity towards the guy, some just want him out of the club so we can move on. There's a level of frustration that's being expressed, built up over several years. I don't want to see him verbally abused or attacked in person either and I think any fans who go that route might want to be careful as they could receive a dig in the gob from the fan beside them. Yes I remember what he did in the past, but in football it's all about what you've done for me lately, that's just the way it is. The business of winning is ongoing and glory is fleeting.

I really doubt even any hardcore fan will see wenger in person and lace him with verbal expletives. I really doubt it.

But in online discussions -- due to their very impersonal nature -- people are more expressive of their opinions and can say what they cannot say in person.

[Power n Glory]

Tbh, I think most hardcore gooners have been exceptionally patient really.

Most understand the necessity of what the club had to do six years ago.

What they don't understand, is why, now, the policies that were adopted are not adapted....especially given their failings.

Furthermore, regardless of money and transfers and all the big lovely things fans get so excited about, the basics of the game on the pitch have been ignored, and even the most ardent supporter of Wenger must be tearing their hair out wondering why, after the same errors in three/four years, have they not been sorted out.

Therefore; having exercised patience, having been laughed at, having watched the dismal end to the season, only to be told "be patient", strikes a very sore nerve.

There was a balance struck at the begining of last season. The "Wenger Out" brigade were shouted down. But the culmination of the same mistakes, the same unwillingness to strengthen, and the childlike behaviour of our manager on the sidelines has tipped that balance. Quite rightly, some of our fans are furious, and we all know what raw anger does.

Like I said before. Wenger is not going to be sacked, but I do think all fans should be putting the pressure on the club to do what is right. But on 9th June, we actually do have to be patient over the summer.....but, there will be a whole different shit storm if we start the season unchanged, and with the same rooky errors.

Therefore, I say, lump the pressure on the club. It's time the fans got up and spoke. There is no room for further patience IMO.

Yes, good post.

[Mr.Singh]

For me its not about wenger going out and spending money ££££ its about addressing the problems on the pitch, this is why the "wenger out" movement has grown. He simply refuses to change his set up, this is a guy who makes stupid comments like judge me in May, well May did come and we finished fourth. Until he changes and he stops treating us fans like dickheads then I will support him...But this will never happen because he is a prick.

[Letters]

Yes it was. Maybe not a year ago but when Eboue was booed off a few people on were a little snobbish as if such a thing was below them. Not sure if you were in that camp but there was a discussion and people saying people looking down on others with a certain attitude.

There has always been that attitude on here from a select few. Say nothing and 'Wenger knows best' was the phrase. There is no need to go OTT over a few off hand comments. It's not as if Wenger has been pelted with rotten eggs or anything.

I had a problem with the Eboue booing because he was booed while he was playing. It was deeply unhelpful IMO and just made him prone to more mistakes. I've never had a problem with booing players off, we have a right to make our feelings known, especially when it seems like they're not puttin the effort in. Effort is surely the minimum requirement.

Why is there never a middle ground on here? I don't think Wenger deserves some of the abuse he's got on here. That doesn't mean I don't think he should be questioned and criticised.

[Power n Glory]

It works both ways. Some people have lost all respect for Wenger. Some of it is OTT but what can you do? It's a side issue and not important. People talk to each other on here in a way they wouldn't if face to face.

[selassie]

Tbh, I think most hardcore gooners have been exceptionally patient really.

Most understand the necessity of what the club had to do six years ago.

What they don't understand, is why, now, the policies that were adopted are not adapted....especially given their failings.

Furthermore, regardless of money and transfers and all the big lovely things fans get so excited about, the basics of the game on the pitch have been ignored, and even the most ardent supporter of Wenger must be tearing their hair out wondering why, after the same errors in three/four years, have they not been sorted out.

Therefore; having exercised patience, having been laughed at, having watched the dismal end to the season, only to be told "be patient", strikes a very sore nerve.

There was a balance struck at the begining of last season. The "Wenger Out" brigade were shouted down. But the culmination of the same mistakes, the same unwillingness to strengthen, and the childlike behaviour of our manager on the sidelines has tipped that balance. Quite rightly, some of our fans are furious, and we all know what raw anger does.

Like I said before. Wenger is not going to be sacked, but I do think all fans should be putting the pressure on the club to do what is right. But on 9th June, we actually do have to be patient over the summer.....but, there will be a whole different shit storm if we start the season unchanged, and with the same rooky errors.

Therefore, I say, lump the pressure on the club. It's time the fans got up and spoke. There is no room for further patience IMO.

:gp:

[Cripps_orig]

That's an interesting comparison. Clough took Forest places their fans could never have dreamed of. He did stay too long and ended up getting them relegated and yet he's still a hero to the Forest fans.
Wenger has done the same for us, all we've done is drop to the bottom of the top 4 rather than the top 4 and he's abused by a load of spoilt brat fans on here like he has got us relegated. It's disgraceful IMO. Questions need to be asked certainly and I do think it's time for him to go (scary as I find the idea) but I'll never disrespect him.
The difference between the 2 are the clubs they are managing. Notts Forest were shite before Clough and are shit after him. During his years there, they did stuff that they will never ever do again hence hes the reason hes still seen as a hero there.

As for Wenger, Arsenal won trophies before him, they will win trophies after him but will they win anything whilst hes still here? I doubt it cos he doesnt have what it takes. Thats why we view Wenger differently to what Forest fans view Clough.

Whilst i agree we shouldnt disrespect the cunt for what hes done for us, peoples patience is wearing thin. Ive turned against him. I want him gone now before its too late so he can take what little credibility he has left with him to his next job.

[Letters]

The difference between the 2 are the clubs they are managing. Notts Forest were shite before Clough and are shit after him. During his years there, they did stuff that they will never ever do again hence hes the reason hes still seen as a hero there.

As for Wenger, Arsenal won trophies before him, they will win trophies after him but will they win anything whilst hes still here? I doubt it cos he doesnt have what it takes. Thats why we view Wenger differently to what Forest fans view Clough.

I guess that's reasonable although he has lifted the club to dizzy heights which the club hadn't seen since the 30s and not even Coney or Theolo remember those times.



Whilst i agree we shouldnt disrespect the cunt for what hes done for us, peoples patience is wearing thin. Ive turned against him. I want him gone now before its too late so he can take what little credibility he has left with him to his next job.

:haha:

Can't argue with that.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I'm with Letters when it comes to the disrespecting

Don't see how anyone can justify calling Wenger a cu#t or a pric# after all he has done for the club, unless you have just started supporting Arsenal in the last 6 seasons!!?

Don't get me wrong it is clear to see that Wenger is misguided in his self-assumpitions that everything is okey dokey and that everyone from the board to the fans have his board.

It is no coincidence that we stopped winning things around the same time that we to put it bluntly lost our bottle......the football has always been pleasing to the eye but in the past we had a engine running it, a couple of bruisers mopping up things for the finer aspects of Wenger's master plan. We don't fight fire with fire and to be proud of being the only team to beat Utd and Barca is one thing but to be losing or drawing at home to bottom of the league fodder is another and the scales as we see do not tip in our favour.

But does that make Wenger what many are calling him......'no'

Wenger I do not doubt wants success for the club and his pride is taking a massive beating as it should because he has been stubborn/blinkered for too long. Even if he does open his eyes it may be too late but I cannot see him getting the sack, I can see another chance being given but even a cat has nine lives and I do not expect to see AW around as the manager if we are to go 9 seasons without.......

I would even go as far as to say that we may be better off with a new manager but as I imagine Wenger will still be around for a while and with that being the case, this off season is one in which he has to show more intent, drive and purpose. Trying to be in the same room as Phil Jones I hope is a start to that and I pray that we have a more active summer than pasts seasons.......we need PL blooded talent and if we are to lose a few than make sure we get paid top draw.

Don't get me wrong i am not defending Wenger and saying he has done nothing wrong......we all know and have strong opinions that say otherwise......but to call him a cu#t after he, his teams, and style of football have given me the most to cheer for in my 35 plus years of being an Arsenal fan is downright wrong and as Letters put it disrespectful........

or its maybe that I am not as eloquent as some of my fellow Gooners.........although I have been known to call Eboue a few choice :censored:

:respect: proud to be a Gooner

[budesonide]

one calling wenger a cun*t on GW is the least of his problems, you coc*ksucker

:sarcasm:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

one calling wenger a cun*t on GW is the least of his problems, you coc*ksucker

:sarcasm:

:getcoat:

[Cripps_orig]

I assume by style of play you mean back how it was when we won stuff?

Cos surely no one can enjoy how it is now. Pass, pass and pass some more isnt my style of football. Its boring, dull and fucking shite.

Why hes gone from a fast flowing team playing 4-4-2 to what we are now, il never know.

I was actually pleased we had changed formation to a 4-5-1 cos we had been found out in the 4-4-2 and i thought him moving to the 4-5-1 would mean he will change between the 2 but all hes done is stick with the 4-5-1 even against teams that play 10 men behind the ball.

What a cunt. I mean that with the greatest respect of course ;)

[hymppi]

What a cunt. I mean that with the greatest respect of course ;)[/QUOTE]

i second that. with the upmost respect i humbly say AW is a tight cunt.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I assume by style of play you mean back how it was when we won stuff?

Cos surely no one can enjoy how it is now. Pass, pass and pass some more isnt my style of football. Its boring, dull and fucking shite.

Why hes gone from a fast flowing team playing 4-4-2 to what we are now, il never know.

I was actually pleased we had changed formation to a 4-5-1 cos we had been found out in the 4-4-2 and i thought him moving to the 4-5-1 would mean he will change between the 2 but all hes done is stick with the 4-5-1 even against teams that play 10 men behind the ball.

What a cunt. I mean that with the greatest respect of course ;)


:gp:

[fakeyank]

Why do you think it's OK to be so disrespectful to just about the most important manager in our club's history?
Frustrated as I am with him and things at the club (and with football in general), I'd never be so disrespectful to Wenger. He's taken us places I never thought I'd see Arsenal go.

I am sorry! :getcoat:

:(

[Alan B'stard]

I'm sure you're right. And I understand the frustrations, I share them. But I'd never write about Wenger the way some people do on here. It's uncalled for IMO.

It certainly is. However I think people have it arse about face - I reckon Wenger is actually doing well to keep things going and its the board who are most to blame. His job is to be the fall guy for their policy and keep us in the CHampions league, nothing more. Hasnt been for a while either.

The 'sustainabliity' model is a chimera too. Think of it this way - Arsenal geenrates a load of value, through its property investment, gate receipts, TV rights etc. The stakeholders are basically the fanbase, the shareholders and anyone drawing a wage from the club, most notably the players, manager and certgain directors.

All those people have been rewarded except for the fanbase who are basically being bled dry. And dont give me any of that 'we never took a dividend...plurality ownership' cack either. A small coterie of shareholders have made out like bandidts and taken it all as a backdated payday when they cashed their shares in (I'm looking at you, Dein/LAdy Nina/ Fizsman estate). Even now they are looking at planning permission for a new tower block and flats on Queensland road before they look at spunking money on players and - heaven forbid - trophies. Face it - Arsenal is a property / merchandising outfit with a lossmaking football club tacked on as an afterthought.

So, agsint all taht, if the board have only reeally wanted to spend the bare minimum on sporting success to keep things on an even keel, Wenger has done a fantastic job. Its not until fan unrest redresses the balance at elast partway towards the fans again that those incentives will change. When they do you will see us show more 'ambition.'At taht point wenger wont have to put a brave face on and talk about how young the team is. He wont need to - we'll be recruiting men instead of boys. Personally I think we're close to coming out off hibernation and Wenger'ss still got it. I do think he has used up his goodwill and cant push it any further though.

[Toronto Gooner]

It certainly is. However I think people have it arse about face - I reckon Wenger is actually doing well to keep things going and its the board who are most to blame. His job is to be the fall guy for their policy and keep us in the CHampions league, nothing more. Hasnt been for a while either.

The 'sustainabliity' model is a chimera too. Think of it this way - Arsenal geenrates a load of value, through its property investment, gate receipts, TV rights etc. The stakeholders are basically the fanbase, the shareholders and anyone drawing a wage from the club, most notably the players, manager and certgain directors.

All those people have been rewarded except for the fanbase who are basically being bled dry. And dont give me any of that 'we never took a dividend...plurality ownership' cack either. A small coterie of shareholders have made out like bandidts and taken it all as a backdated payday when they cashed their shares in (I'm looking at you, Dein/LAdy Nina/ Fizsman estate). Even now they are looking at planning permission for a new tower block and flats on Queensland road before they look at spunking money on players and - heaven forbid - trophies. Face it - Arsenal is a property / merchandising outfit with a lossmaking football club tacked on as an afterthought.

So, agsint all taht, if the board have only reeally wanted to spend the bare minimum on sporting success to keep things on an even keel, Wenger has done a fantastic job. Its not until fan unrest redresses the balance at elast partway towards the fans again that those incentives will change. When they do you will see us show more 'ambition.'At taht point wenger wont have to put a brave face on and talk about how young the team is. He wont need to - we'll be recruiting men instead of boys. Personally I think we're close to coming out off hibernation and Wenger'ss still got it. I do think he has used up his goodwill and cant push it any further though.
A couple of quick and simple questions:

(1) If Wenger is the fall guy for the board, why has he renewed his contract so often. His reputation was cemented after the first 5 or 6 years. He could have taken huge money at Real Madrid and several other clubs.

and

(2) How much money has been spent on the planning permission for the housing projects? Is it enough to pay a week's worth of Fabregas' wages?

[Power n Glory]

Ivan Gladis from the AST interview. "...Removing the manager from the financial aspects to me doesn't make a lot of sense because you have to discuss the worth of a player, and as I've said, everything is about efficiency when you have a limited spend, so you need to prioritise where your going to spend your money and how much an individual player is worth, so it's very difficult for me to imagine having a manager that says 'now that's the player I want now go get him' and you make up what you think the price is - there has to be a dialogue with the manger."




Wenger isn't the fall guy. He has a say in these matters. Wenger feels a lot of players are overpriced which is why we don't spend as much on players.

[Alan B'stard]

Wenger isn't the fall guy. He has a say in these matters. Wenger feels a lot of players are overpriced which is why we don't spend as much on players.

I dont doubt that he agrees with the penny pinching model but that just says to me he is made for the jobspec the board have set him.