Liverpool have overtaken us now!

[1_nilto the arsenal]

I used to admire Wenger's crusade in not spending money like a drunken sailor like Chelsea, City and Man U. I mean hey we got a new stadium, a state of the art training facilities and lots and lots of liquid asset. What is worrying me is that Liverpool with a fairly novice manager in terms of managing a top club which were not really progressing with previous managers, they were just living of the past success. Having said that they did win the Champions league not that long ago. Why and how can Benetiz get a decent side but certainly not a special team win the champions league? My point is how did Rafa get the best of those players to win the Champions League as opposed to Arsene who have also had a sqaud of fairly decent players, but who always get knocked out of the last 16.

Now we have Rogers Liverpool who to be fair have been shrewd with loan signings and a bargain signing of Sturridge (Thanks to AW we have Giroud) was a brilliant piece of business. I mean how the fuck is brendan getting hsi team to steam roll pretty much anyone in such a short space of time. Wenger has had his team for so long and the one season where he had a chance to win the league by signing one or two world class strikers in the Summer and Janury 14. I am so fustrated that Liverpool have now over taken Arsenal. I am telling you now we have gone backwards under wenger, we will not win the league or champions league unless we have a young manager with fresh ides and a different philiosphy. I could live witb being behind Chelsea and Man City and even United, but I am finding it so hard to accept that Liverpool who are not a rich club and dont have a sugar daddy or Sheik is now another club we have to play catch up with. JW Herny made a master stroke call when he hired Brendan Rogers, when we could have got rid of Wenger and picked up Rogers, he would have been a perfect fit for Arsenal. So fucking cheese off looking the league table, this season was our best chance of winning the league and Wenger blew.

[Özim]

It'll be interesting to see what those who have said we can't compete with the billionaire teams have to say about this.

My opinion is they have a forward thinking manager who builds on previous seasons to evolve the team/squad, they've been a revelation this season and have clearly overtaken us on the pitch now and it's not taken Rodgers long. Rodgers is tactically very good, identifies what he needs to improve the team and gets it and has used the players he already had to maximum effect.

Wenger has spent 9 years trying to build a team able to compete at the highest level and failed and yet Rodgers has been there under 2 years and has built a team who are clearly better equipped to win the title (even if they don't).

It just goes to show that with the right manager things can change very quickly.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

You see this is what really annoys me about Wenger and the Wengertites. You dont have to compete with players that would ordinarily go to City, Chelsea and Man U. There are very good players out there who could make the difference of being 4th and being 1st! The problem is Wengers scouting is not good enough. We have become re-active and are now always buying players last minute or in a panic. SAF was brilliant on sigings as he used to sign them early summmer so they could go on pre season tour and training. When was the last time our scouting network and manager signed a player before pre season training?? Why would you wait till the last day in August and then sign a player in a different postion and blow 44 Million on a fucking guy who has been utter shit all season. Not one game has he played so well that we could appluad the signing. It was always a 4th choice signing and it all came about by Real Madrid taking us for a ride to raise hard cash for the Bale deal and Wenger fell for it.

[Munchies]

I see where you're coming from, the change that he's had on Liverpool has been pretty dramatic. Destroying teams left and right, and now their goal difference is right up there with City's. Even though Liverpool lost against City and Chelsea away, atleast his sides didn't get thrashed and they were close games. Heck, he even beat Moyes home and away this season. We picked up 1/6 against United which is pretty shocking. Liverpool are here to stay now too, Suarez will stay, and with the CL they'll be able to spend and fix up their defence too.

Wenger didn't even try to build upon our good work early on. Once we had the tough run of games, unsurprisingly the lead at the top went. At one stage, we could have had a 7 point lead. We had to strengthen in the Jan window, a winger and a striker were a must. We fought so hard to get 4th last season, and we all thought 'we have to push on now', but now look, another battle for fourth again. Even if we win the Fa Cup, I don't want Wenger to oversee another transfer window, and I'd like to see him resign.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

Well the table doesnt lie. They are 7 points clear off us with same games played, They have scored more goals and have been playing a much better brand of football comapared to our slow, obvious boring sideway passing. If Wenger had any pride he would realsie that he just cannot take us further than 4th place. Do we always wat to fight for 4th place? We are Arsenal FC FFS, his remit should be to win the championship each season. Its a total farce, the directors are getting rich and could give a shit about winning the league as long we get 4th place. I hope we lose to Wigan and I hope Everton take 4th place. We need some drastic like this to happen before either AW signs off or is moved upstairs.

[Munchies]

Well the table doesnt lie. They are 7 points clear off us with same games played, They have scored more goals and have been playing a much better brand of football comapared to our slow, obvious boring sideway passing. If Wenger had any pride he would realsie that he just cannot take us further than 4th place. Do we always wat to fight for 4th place? We are Arsenal FC FFS, his remit should be to win the championship each season. Its a total farce, the directors are getting rich and could give a shit about winning the league as long we get 4th place. I hope we lose to Wigan and I hope Everton take 4th place. We need some drastic like this to happen before either AW signs off or is moved upstairs.

Not that far ffs! I need that trophy dance when we win it, been far too long!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wHYHMpHmSg

I want Wenger to resign after we win the trophy. :coffee:

[Özim]

I want Wenger to resign after we win the trophy. :coffee:

Best thing for him to do IMO, sign off by winning the cup, he can't take us any further.

[Munchies]

Best thing for him to do IMO, sign off by winning the cup, he can't take us any further.

Yeah, pretty much.

Thanks for everything Arsene. :scarf:

[IBK]

Thing is that while we all know that Liverpool have been ridiculously luck with their key players staying fit, and no midweek football, if they win the league and come 4th next season they will rightly be considered better than Arsenal since 2004.

[Munchies]

Thing is that while we all know that Liverpool have been ridiculously luck with their key players staying fit, and no midweek football, if they win the league and come 4th next season they will rightly be considered better than Arsenal since 2004.

If they win the league this season, they're going to stay up there really. Unless Real flog Benzema and bid like £100m for Suarez in the summer..

They'll attract all the best players, and use the CL money properly.

Unlike Wenger, going in for bargain lamp posts from the french league. What's the point of getting CL footy, if you hardly use it to attract the worldies ?

[IBK]

If they win the league this season, they're going to stay up there really. Unless Real flog Benzema and bid like £100m for Suarez in the summer..

They'll attract all the best players, and use the CL money properly.

Unlike Wenger, going in for bargain lamp posts from the french league. What's the point of getting CL footy, if you hardly use it to attract the worldies ?

Not a given. They have been the luckiest club in the league - keeping Suarez; keeping a small squad fit; capitalising (like we should have done), on uncharacteristic wobbles from the top teams. But if they win the league they, not us, will have shown that its not just money. But...their manager may just be the next big thing.

[Bumble]

Not a given. They have been the luckiest club in the league - keeping Suarez; keeping a small squad fit; capitalising (like we should have done), on uncharacteristic wobbles from the top teams. But if they win the league they, not us, will have shown that its not just money. But...their manager may just be the next big thing.
Keeping Suarez wasn't luck but good management. I hope our board look at it and say no next time someone comes in for a big player of ours. As it can just make the difference. Liverpool have had the advantage of no Europe therefore cam afford a smaller squad but they have an amazing striker who can win games on his own.

They have overtaken us for now and a lot of credit should go to them for moving up so far but also the Ferguson shadow has gone and that might have a psychological impact too.

[JonasTC]

Not a given. They have been the luckiest club in the league - keeping Suarez; keeping a small squad fit; capitalising (like we should have done), on uncharacteristic wobbles from the top teams. But if they win the league they, not us, will have shown that its not just money. But...their manager may just be the next big thing.

Not just money? :s They have had 50m+ losses each year, the last couple of years, thats on level with the silly money clubs. Liverpools success is down to Suarez probably being the best player in the world right now, before he came back, in the beginning of the season, Liverpool looked horrible.

[Marc Overmars]

Just how good they are will be measured more accurately next season with CL football, big signings and increased pressure/expectations.

But yes, it is quite disappointing to think that in 9 years we haven't looked as convincing as they do now as title challengers. Says a lot.

[selassie]

Liverpools success is down to Suarez probably being the best player in the world right now, before he came back, in the beginning of the season, Liverpool looked horrible.

No, Liverpool's success is down to having a manager who is tactically very sound, a strikeforce that is the best in the league by a country mile and a very well balanced first XI.

Of course Liverpool have spent a bit to assemble their current squad, but the fact that their wage bill is lower than ours says it all I am afraid. Rodgers is a very pragmatic manager, one of the best progressive managers around IMHO.

Also this stuff about Liverpool looking horrible when Saurez was out is totally incorrect. They were top of the table at the start of the season without him and were scoring for fun. Admittedly Saurez is their best player by a mile and probably the best player in the League but Liverpool have more to their team than just Suarez.

Of course they have won nothing yet but they have had a great season and if they keep a core of their squad together which I am sure they will I can only see them getting better. They geninuely have a very young team with a few veterans like Gerrard thrown in.

[Power n Glory]

Not just money? :s They have had 50m+ losses each year, the last couple of years, thats on level with the silly money clubs. Liverpools success is down to Suarez probably being the best player in the world right now, before he came back, in the beginning of the season, Liverpool looked horrible.

Suarez has been a factor but we have Ozil. One of the best playmakers in the world and he's had a very slow start to the season. Also, it's not as if we haven't had great players in our squad. We used to have RVP, Cesc, Nasri, Arshavin and Walcott in one squad. Fuck knows how we never managed to win anything with that lot.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

The quesition we have to ask ourselves is how the heck did Rogers backroom staff keep so many players fit, and our club suffer endless injuries each season. Brendan is no fool, had Suarez been banned or injured, he would have sourced another striker on loan, not sign a an injured player to cover his injured player! We have to stop living in denial and accept pour manager has too many flaws to move beyond 4th place. The biggest mistake which was so plainly obvious and staring that idiotic manager of ours was a goalscorer, but due to his stubborness and faith with the Lampost git basement bucket striker, we end up 4th from being in 1st most of the season. One stiker would have made all the difference. Instead our glorious leader spends 42 million on a sulky midfielder who has shown no value. What was Wengers masterplan? To convert Ozil in to a striker FFS!! I wrote off this season at the begining of the season when I looked at our strikerforce; Sanogo (free,) Bendter (waste of space), Giroud (crap). IMO I think Bendter is a beter player than Giroud on his day.

[AFC Leveller]

No doubt Liverpool have improved so much, they were 7th last season and now lead the table. They have obviously had their fair share of luck, esp injury wise but the reason they are top is because they have a good balance 2their squad, they have goals, pace, and a very good manager who seems to know his stuff. That video of him a couple of years ago was very interesting, he talked about teams needing to get around 65+ goals to get in the chamions league.

I think 3rd is up for grabs. Chelsea are 5 points ahead but they still have to go to Anfield.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

Rogers is the type of our manager we need at the helm. There is no way he would leave Liverpool to come to Arsenal even if you gave him 100 Mill to spend. IN Rogers eyes he sees Liverpool as a bigger club than Arsenal and I would have to agree 100%, look at their history with the European Cup and the titles they have won. There is no chance we would be able to attract him to Arsenal. I think he'll end up being the Liverpool boss for the forseeable future. We need to start planning now after Wenger has finally departed and left the building, everything about Arsenal is so wrong now, we used to strive for winning leagues and now we all settle for is an FA Cup and 4th players. Surely that must say a lot about our current players, manager is in a comfort zone and the players are as well. If the team buy in to his 4th place trophy each season how the heck do we epxect our players to have a winners mentality not settling for 4th spot. Everything that is wrong at this club lies firmly with Wenger, fuck the history and the doubles, those were won 15 years ago. You can live off you past success and expect the fans to setlle for 4th spot as well. I wouldnt rule out Chelsea going to Liverpool and turning them over, they went to City and played them off the park. My money is still firmly with Chelsea to win the league with City 2nd and Liverpool 3rd.

[Letters]

It'll be interesting to see what those who have said we can't compete with the billionaire teams have to say about this.

I'd say a couple of things.

1) No-one has ever said it's impossible to compete with those sides but it is very difficult and you need a fair slice of luck. Liverpool have done really well this season and I hope they win the league, it will be good to see a club without the infinite money cheat do it, but where would they be without Suarez? They've had a bit of luck with him not getting any injuries this season. That's the sort of luck Chelsea and City don't need. They can have a top player injured and just bring another £40m signing off the bench. We can't do that. Nor can Liverpool. They've done really well this year but with the added pressure of CL football next year Liverpool's squad will be put under far more strain. Which leads me to my second point.

2) Will Liverpool sustain this level? They've been 'up there' before, but not consistently. What if City or Chelsea decide they're going to buy Suarez next year? Liverpool may have turned up their noses at our £40m (and one!) bid but City could offer £80m to Liverpool and £300k a week to Suarez. They can make an offer which Liverpool would find very difficult to turn down, especially if the player's head is turned by a huge pay offer. And as Spurs found this year, buying a load of decent players to make up for the loss of one outstanding one doesn't necessarily make you a better team overall. The losses Liverpool have made over the last 2 years are not sustainable so how are they going to build on their success this year? We have already been through the pain of a stadium move and with the new commercial deals are well set up long term to compete. Last summer we saw the first signs of more ambition in the transfer market, I'm hoping that will continue this summer. Liverpool have been talking about a stadium move for years and not got anywhere much, unless they manage to do that it will be impossible for them to generate the kind of revenue they need to compete with City or Chelsea long term and if they do move they'll have a huge debt to repay which will make competing even more difficult.

[Letters]

Just looking at the last time Liverpool flirted with the title, 86 points to Utd's 90. Impressive.
They've only finished in the top 6 once since then, before this season.
Sustaining this sort of level is not as easy as some people on here seem to think.

[Özim]

People talk about Suarez and yes he has been outstanding, but they're forgetting that Sturridge has been knocking them in left right and centre as well, so they have two strikers smacking in goals, on top of this Sterling has really come through and is weighing in and Gerrard is pulling the strings in the middle with Coutinho joining in with a cameo role.

As far as the CL is concerned, I understand they haven't had CL this year, but in a sense aren't we saying it's better not to get CL if you can't compete so you can focus on the league, we get 4th every season get knocked out of CL fairly early and then hurt our league chances (it's not just that with us IMO, it's our inability to come through those pressure times with a decent set of results). CL seems to be about money, we get 4th every season and in reality don't really progress much, it's looking like 4th again this season despite our early season efforts, whether we start mid table and come 4th or are 1st and come 4th it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, 4th is 4th at the end of the day.

Liverpool are a massive club and you always get the feeling with them football comes 1st, they'll do anything to keep their best players, I'm not saying they always do but they do have a record of keeping their better players (Gerrard before Suarez), with regards Spurs, yes I agree problem for me is their manager wasn't very good, Rodgers is much better at spotting talent and building a team as he's shown in his career, the right manager can replace top players.

Liverpool are a massive club, with an illustrious history and huge support, it won't take too much to channel this support, a bit of success which is what they have been craving for years (especially the league) and I think it'll be different for them as they won't want to go back to being the bridesmaid.

[Alpha]

The truth is we have handed the title to Liverpool or City or Chelsea . This season was Arsenal's to lose . The only thing which made us be where we are now is Lack of anticipation . You can not expect to win a title with a thin squad like ours without any reinforcement . There are suspensions , injuries , loss of forms or any other circumstances which should have been taken into account and encouraged us to buy in the transfer window but we were deluded and thought we would go in the Guinness record book for winning all the cups with a depleted squad . Even a retarded person can not think that way .
Our board deserve to get eggs on their face . Shame on them . They have fucked it up . Not long ago we were 7 points clear . The team needed a help and didn't get any . What a disaster ?

[LDG]

No they haven't overtaken us at all.

They have a worldy in Suarez, who is probably the best player in the league right now. And they're playing without pressure, without CL to bog them down, and they have been tremendously lucky with injuries etc. The thing is, if you can play a consistent 11 week in week out, which they have been able to do (lets face it, they have only really had the league to worry about), then you stand to be a much more efficient unit.

But I don't want to take any credit away from them, and if they win it, they will have deserved it. Bendan Lipstick, has done a great job with them.

Can they compete, with the stadium they have in the long term? I have my doubts. They need a bigger ground, more investment, and they need a much bigger squad. We have much more in place for the long term, with or without Wenget at the helm.

I think fate has dealt them a favourable hand this year. But why not eh? Would have been nice if we could have had the same luck with a settled side.

[Letters]

This season was Arsenal's to lose
:lol:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

If we're still above you in 5 years time, fighting for the title and in the CL then yeah.

Otherwise no.

But I have to disagree with a few things. Why is keeping players fit considered lucky? If you still think having multiple key players injured every single season is down to luck then there's no hope for you.
And in any case, pretty much our entire defence has at some point been injured for long periods, hence why we relied on Toure, Cissokho and Flanagan for a long time. Enrique is still out injured. Sturridge also missed about 8 league games over Christmas with injury as well and Gerrard missed a number around that time as well.
I bet the same people saying "key players" haven't been injured would be the same ones saying that outside Suarez we have a poor team.

[LDG]

If we're still above you in 5 years time, fighting for the title and in the CL then yeah.

Otherwise no.



:good:

[Niall_Quinn]

Weirdest fucking thing yesterday, watching Liverpool take the spuds apart. Have they gone back to the traditional red of the 80s with the kit or something? I mean the EXACT shade? And for a minute the style of play reminded me of way back and I felt a guilty affinity with the team, the style, the entertainment value, the authority. It passed in a second of course - dirty scousers! Really though, if they are back then it's good for the game. And fuck it, let's all laugh at Moyes but we need Utd back in this fight as well. There, said it. Proper clubs against the plaything money jokes.

Can Liverpool sustain this. It's very unlikely unless they have unearthed a new Ferguson in Rodgers. And even then he'll need to be given time, maybe years. And they'll need to keep a conveyor belt of talent coming through, not just via the youth ranks but also (unfortunately because that's the way the game has been corrupted) the chequebook. Like us the most important battle will be in the boardroom, not on the pitch. They have the whole journey to make that we are just finishing and we all know how hard that road is.

It's good we are even talking about it though. Some see it as a threat to a God given right we apparently have. Oh look - even fucking Liverpool! That's why some have gone as far as to suggest we let Usmanov play a bigger role. Splash the cash and buy-pass everything that makes the competitive aspect of supporting a club through thick and thin just vanish. Yay - we won! Yay - we won again. Yawn. Me, I want to be playing life and death matches against teams like Liverpool and Utd. If they are tough to beat (in sporting rather than financial terms) then so much better than the sterile alternative.

We'll have our days, they'll have their days. That's what it's all about (or should be all about) and there's nothing scary about it, there's no recrimination. It's sport as it should be.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Liverpool this season will play only 42 games, 38 in the league, 3 in the Fa Cup, 1 in the league cup, no european games.

We will have played 53 (if we go out in the cup semi) or 54 if we make the final. The effect of liverpool playing ten games less is huge, more recovery time between matches, less travelling etc, while if they win the league they will of course completely deserve it, I wonder how this squad would have coped if they had been in europe, especially europa league and playing on thursdays.

If they invest next season properly with champions league football, then of course players will go and they will probably stay up there and perhaps it could be argued they have overtaken us, but they keep talking about moving to a new stadium. We have seen how difficult it is to do that. They have been superb this season but one season doesn't mean they overtake us, lets see how they do next year with more pressure, many more games.

[Letters]

Why is keeping players fit considered lucky?
Because there is always an element of luck when it comes to injuries.
Yes, there's clearly something going wrong at Arsenal and we need to look at it but in any season there will be injuries which come down to luck.
You have one key player, frankly. Without him you wouldn't be struggling exactly but you wouldn't be challenging for the title. Facht.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well the injury thing is partly down to playing less games I would think. You can still get a bad tackle or some crappy international fixture against the Republic of Hackathon, but playing less games overall must be e benefit for overall fitness and as a knock on effect a lower injury toll. Pros and cons to playing in the CL.

[Letters]

FEWER!

[Niall_Quinn]

FEWER!

Less of your lip

[AFC Leveller]

I'd also like to see them qualify for the Champions League every season before they can be considered as "better than Arsenal".

Playing 42 games this season has kept them fresh and given them enough time to concentrate and prepare well enough for games. I have no doubt that had they been in then Europa league playing on Thursday and Sundays, they'd have fewer points.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Because there is always an element of luck when it comes to injuries.
Yes, there's clearly something going wrong at Arsenal and we need to look at it but in any season there will be injuries which come down to luck.
You have one key player, frankly. Without him you wouldn't be struggling exactly but you wouldn't be challenging for the title. Facht.

I agree that injuries can be unlucky, but I don't think it necessarily follows that staying fit should be considered lucky. It leaves no room for any middle ground.

In any case, we have had injuries to important players this season, long ones at that. Pretty much the entire defence, Lucas, Gerrard and Sturridge have all been out for about a month at a time, or longer and we have had to rely on players like Toure, Cissokho and Flanagan. Just because they're not as good as Suarez is irrelevant, they are places that had to be filled by inferior players.

You can point to many things and say we're fortunate to be where we are, the lack of any European games being a fair one, but just to say "Suarez has stayed fit, god aren't they lucky" is just a stupid one.

[Niall_Quinn]

You are lucky Toure isn't starting. That's a HUGE slice of luck and an unfair advantage.

[Marc Overmars]

There are elements that contribute to a sustained period of good form but I think it's a bit churlish to allude to luck considering how well they've played.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Speaking of stadia, City are getting on with increasing capacity to around 60k. http://www.mcfc.co.uk/News/Club-news/2014/March/Laing-O-Rourke-appointed-as-Etihad-Stadium-construction-partner

As for us, we're apparently on our way to doing similar; increasing the size of Anfield to around that number. Though frankly who knows with us.

[LDG]

Speaking of stadia, City are getting on with increasing capacity to around 60k. http://www.mcfc.co.uk/News/Club-news/2014/March/Laing-O-Rourke-appointed-as-Etihad-Stadium-construction-partner

As for us, we're apparently on our way to doing similar; increasing the size of Anfield to around that number. Though frankly who knows with us.

I wonder how different the financing will be.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I wonder how different the financing will be.
Us, no idea. It'll be done in stages which should lessen any initial impact. I'd be surprised if sponsorship didn't play some part though. Also, I think it will be as part of a wider regeneration of the area so probably some sort of grant as well.

City. I'm sure they'll find a few hundred million down the back of a sofa. Having a quick read of Bluemoon it seems Etihad is buying up half of Manchester anyway.

[Niall_Quinn]

Us, no idea. It'll be done in stages which should lessen any initial impact. I'd be surprised if sponsorship didn't play some part though. Also, I think it will be as part of a wider regeneration of the area so probably some sort of grant as well.

City. I'm sure they'll find a few hundred million down the back of a sofa. Having a quick read of Bluemoon it seems Etihad is buying up half of Manchester anyway.

I guess if the arabs play it right they'll be able to rejuvenate the whole of Manchester and price mancs out of the area - just as they are doing in London. So many advantages to letting these bastards and their money into the country.

[Maestro]

every single thread on here has descended into a wenger in/out, pro/anti and associated fuckery

is anyone still modding on here :sulk:

[Özim]

:lol:

[IBK]

No, Liverpool's success is down to having a manager who is tactically very sound, a strikeforce that is the best in the league by a country mile and a very well balanced first XI.

Of course Liverpool have spent a bit to assemble their current squad, but the fact that their wage bill is lower than ours says it all I am afraid. Rodgers is a very pragmatic manager, one of the best progressive managers around IMHO.

Also this stuff about Liverpool looking horrible when Saurez was out is totally incorrect. They were top of the table at the start of the season without him and were scoring for fun. Admittedly Saurez is their best player by a mile and probably the best player in the League but Liverpool have more to their team than just Suarez.

Of course they have won nothing yet but they have had a great season and if they keep a core of their squad together which I am sure they will I can only see them getting better. They geninuely have a very young team with a few veterans like Gerrard thrown in.

Even if were only...

How you keep a local, talismanic talent like Gerard for so long?

How you keep a world class want away striker even though there's no guaranteed CL football?

How do you keep a threadbare squad fit enough to sustain a challenge?

- Liverpool have raised genuine questions about how we have operated in the face of the billionaires that we like to use as an excuse.

[LDG]

Even if were only...

How you keep a local, talismanic talent like Gerard for so long?

How you keep a world class want away striker even though there's no guaranteed CL football?

How do you keep a threadbare squad fit enough to sustain a challenge?

- Liverpool have raised genuine questions about how we have operated in the face of the billionaires that we like to use as an excuse.

- Gerrard still stayed there when they were shit

- You pay him money, and offer him a deal to leave next year if they don't get ECL

- You don't have ECL to contend with, and have far less games than everyone else

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

- Gerrard still stayed there when they were shit

- You pay him money, and offer him a deal to leave next year if they don't get ECL

- You don't have ECL to contend with, and have far less games than everyone else
We burn shirts and send death threats, you guys write strongly worded chants on youtube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u56kJjrlXuI

Gerrard, oh Gerrard the bench warmer for them...

[GP]

Ollie :bow:

[LDG]

:haha:

Nasri oh nasri, why would you want to be a benchwarmer for them
Nasri oh nasri, why would you want to be a benchwarmer for them

[Letters]

Gerrard stayed for the same reason Le Tissier did, IMO.
Local boy done good, didn't want to go elsewhere.

[Özim]

We burn shirts and send death threats, you guys write strongly worded chants on youtube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u56kJjrlXuI

Gerrard, oh Gerrard the bench warmer for them...

:lol: This guy cracks me up!

[Özim]

Gerrard stayed for the same reason Le Tissier did, IMO.
Local boy done good, didn't want to go elsewhere.

Think LeTissier also stayed because he wasn't bothered about winning anything in his career, shame for him considering his talent.

[Letters]

I'm sure he'd have liked to win things but being near his family and in the local area he knew was more important to him.
Fair enough really.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Stevie Me also knew Liverpool had the resources to one day win the league anyway, so that probably made it easier to stay. I think a league title this year would arguably make him their GOAT.

[Özim]

I'm sure he'd have liked to win things but being near his family and in the local area he knew was more important to him.
Fair enough really.

Yeah he's entitled to make the choice that suits him, London isn't too far from Southampton though a move to a London club wouldn't have been too hard family wise, I just think he was happy enough at Southampton and just enjoyed playing football, even with regards playing for England he never seemed overly concerned.

[Özim]

I think Stevie Me also knew Liverpool had the resources to one day win the league anyway, so that probably made it easier to stay. I think a league title this year would arguably make him their GOAT.

Yeah I agree, I think Gerrard knew Liverpool weren't a club to just sit there and stagnate, they've always been a club who expect to win stuff and will do all they can to do so.

[Power n Glory]

Champions League, UEFA Cup, 2 League Cups and 3 FA Cups - Far from a Le Tissier situation.

[LDG]

Champions League, UEFA Cup, 2 League Cups and 3 FA Cups - Far from a Le Tissier situation.

I think you'll find Le Tissier played in the Zenith Data Systems Cup Final in 1992, so that blows your paper thin argument right out of the fucking water!

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I think you'll find Le Tissier played in the Zenith Data Systems Cup Final in 1992, so that blows your paper thin argument right out of the fucking water!

A thoroughly enjoyable tournament.

[Letters]

I think you'll find Le Tissier played in the Zenith Data Systems Cup Final in 1992, so that blows your paper thin argument right out of the fucking water!
Meh. It's no Norwich Hospital Charity Cup #thfc

[GP]

Meh. It's no Norwich Hospital Charity Cup #thfc

(shared)

Le Tissier was shit anyway. A couple of worldies shouldn't cover the fact that he was probably the laziest player I've ever seen. His England record is testament to that.

[Ollie the Optimist]

didn't Gerrard put in a transfer request to go to chelsea back in 2003 and only stayed because of death threats?

[IBK]

didn't Gerrard put in a transfer request to go to chelsea back in 2003 and only stayed because of death threats?

Doesn't matter why. Somehow Liverpool have kept key players while we have failed to do so.

[LDG]

Doesn't matter why. Somehow Liverpool have kept key players while we have failed to do so.

Eh?

They've sold Torres, Alonso, Macherano to name a few in recent seasons.

They've kept two players. Two. And both of them were very much whoring themselves at one point or another. It's not like anyone has come steaming in for Gerrard over the last couple of years either!

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

didn't Gerrard put in a transfer request to go to chelsea back in 2003 and only stayed because of death threats?

If I am remembering this all rightly....

First off, the whole death threats thing is nonsense. Made up by the tabloids.

In 2004 he seemingly had his head turned whilst on England duty, but changed his mind after talking with his family. The old "are you fuck joining Chelsea".

In 2005 it was all over his contract. We dicked about with the negotiations and pissed him off. The next day [I think] it was all resolved.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Suarez has been a factor but we have Ozil. One of the best playmakers in the world and he's had a very slow start to the season. Also, it's not as if we haven't had great players in our squad. We used to have RVP, Cesc, Nasri, Arshavin and Walcott in one squad. Fuck knows how we never managed to win anything with that lot.

We didn't keep that team together....and keeping a team together is an ideology that Wenger used to recite weekly though he has slowed down in mentioning it in his modern day liturgy.

A lot of people have often claimed keeping a player against his will to be some great mythical doomsday, Armageddon, 4 horsemen end of days scenario...... but Liverpool pretty much did just that with a putrid character in Suarez who on this occasion actually had a leg to stand on seeing that John.W.Henry is full of crap.

Still don't think Mr Henry and Liverpool FC have been called out on the lies and incredulous actions of that whole fiasco nearly enough.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Wenger will need to learn eventually that in the land of giants, the fella with the best attack wins. Even if the giant is abhorrently and effectively a Frankenstein funded by a billionaire.

A first class forward line hides a multitude of sins. Liverpool have that. Giroud, Bendtner and Sanogo can't even hide the skanky hoochie mumma skets they sneak into their hotel suites at night. Win the league my derriere!

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Wenger will need to learn eventually that in the land of giants, the fella with the best attack wins. Even if the giant is abhorrently and effectively a Frankenstein funded by a billionaire.

A first class forward line hides a multitude of sins. Liverpool have that. Giroud, Bendtner and Sanogo can't even hide the skanky hoochie mumma skets they sneak into their hotel suites at night. Win the league my derriere!

Are you by any chance Jamaican?

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

On the Suarez thing (again!) by all accounts it was a "good faith" clause. Still technically a release clause in that it triggers negotiations, but obliges us to do sweet fuck all.

[Power n Glory]

We didn't keep that team together....and keeping a team together is an ideology that Wenger used to recite weekly though he has slowed down in mentioning it in his modern day liturgy.

A lot of people have often claimed keeping a player against his will to be some great mythical doomsday, Armageddon, 4 horsemen end of days scenario...... but Liverpool pretty much did just that with a putrid character in Suarez who on this occasion actually had a leg to stand on seeing that John.W.Henry is full of crap.

Still don't think Mr Henry and Liverpool FC and been called out on the lies and incredulous actions of that whole fiasco nearly enough.

I think that group had a god enough run. They a had few seasons together but even if Wenger had kept that core together longer, I seriously doubt they’d have won much. Cesc, RVP and Theo joined the club when we still had Henry, Bergkamp and Pires playing for us and they kept seeing the same problem. Injuries, a lack of activity in the transfer window, contract talks turning sour, the same tactics and being very slow to react to change. We should have learned our lesson years ago but the same problems we had then still haunt us now. In fact, the more this team gel and the more efficient they become in Wengerball, the worse they get.

[I am invisible]

On the Suarez thing (again!) by all accounts it was a "good faith" clause. Still technically a release clause in that it triggers negotiations, but obliges us to do sweet fuck all.

It wasn't the fact that we missed out on the player that's annoyed everyone - on some level, I think a lot of Arsenal fans actually think 'good on Liverpool' for actually holding one of these selfish multi-millionaires to their contracts (plus we're Arsenal fans, so we miss out on everyone) - it was things like the entirely unnecessary 'What are they smoking at the Emirates?' comment, and all the former players and newspaper hacks who were lining up to have a pop at us for being disrespectful / insulting / classless / etc that have done it. Somehow we came out of it looking like total arse-holes, when in actual fact we hadn't done anything wrong? I don't suppose we'll get a single, solitary apology from anyone in the press or media though...

[fakeyank]

I think that group had a god enough run. They a had few seasons together but even if Wenger had kept that core together longer, I seriously doubt they’d have won much. Cesc, RVP and Theo joined the club when we still had Henry, Bergkamp and Pires playing for us and they kept seeing the same problem. Injuries, a lack of activity in the transfer window, contract talks turning sour, the same tactics and being very slow to react to change. We should have learned our lesson years ago but the same problems we had then still haunt us now. In fact, the more this team gel and the more efficient they become in Wengerball, the worse they get.

:gp:

Problem is not the team, problem is Wengerball. It is slow, tedious and toothless. You could put an insomniac to sleep with the sideways passing we do all day. There is only one solution to this though for Arsene... buy more CAM's- Draxler is definitely coming home now!

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Are you by any chance Jamaican?

No but I'm happy to lend a word or two in times like these. They know how to curse them Jamo's....

[IBK]

Eh?

They've sold Torres, Alonso, Macherano to name a few in recent seasons.

They've kept two players. Two. And both of them were very much whoring themselves at one point or another. It's not like anyone has come steaming in for Gerrard over the last couple of years either!

Mate. Get current. The reason they are challenging for the title is that they kept their most important player in the Summer. Imagine if we'd kept RVP; or Fabregas.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It wasn't the fact that we missed out on the player that's annoyed everyone - on some level, I think a lot of Arsenal fans actually think 'good on Liverpool' for actually holding one of these selfish multi-millionaires to their contracts (plus we're Arsenal fans, so we miss out on everyone) - it was things like the entirely unnecessary 'What are they smoking at the Emirates?' comment, and all the former players and newspaper hacks who were lining up to have a pop at us for being disrespectful / insulting / classless / etc that have done it. Somehow we came out of it looking like total arse-holes, when in actual fact we hadn't done anything wrong? I don't suppose we'll get a single, solitary apology from anyone in the press or media though...

Here, here....good chap.

Henry played the ignorance, what do you mean clause card nicely...... He could have been Clinton denying that chick licked his weiner with the way he was going on.

Not to mention the fact that in business terms verbal agreements do actually hold legal weight....though it transpired that it counted for toffee in this case at the expense of our rep.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I don't dismiss the influence and shortcomings of the manager, but I am suggesting that the premise, alone, of keeping some of his best...would have saved at least a few of his blushes at least, over the past few years.

[Power n Glory]

I don't dismiss the influence and shortcomings of the manager, but I am suggesting that the premise, alone, of keeping some of his best...would have saved at least a few of his blushes at least, over the past few years.

It's systematic problems. Somehow we've managed to crock all of our key players and run others completely into the ground. We had an abundance of midfield options and somehow we now find ourselves short. Even if we'd have kept a few players, I doubt Wenger would rotate enough so we have players ready on the bench in good form and ready to do a job.

We also need to find out why so many of our players are picking long injuries. Something isn't right behind the scenes. The same things keep happening and I can't bank on things being any different next year or with more players.

[selassie]

Even if were only...

How you keep a local, talismanic talent like Gerard for so long?

How you keep a world class want away striker even though there's no guaranteed CL football?

How do you keep a threadbare squad fit enough to sustain a challenge?

- Liverpool have raised genuine questions about how we have operated in the face of the billionaires that we like to use as an excuse.

Yep, it's a concern that we seem to let our star players leave so easily.

Whilst what Liverpool did was very underhand regarding Suarez, I admire them for keeping him and then getting him to sign a new contract. If he does go now and I really do not think he will, Liverpool could easily command a world record fee for him.

Rodgers has Liverpool playing as a team, when it has come to the crucial games they have pretty much stepped up, especially in the business end of the season.

I agree, moreover if we are to judge Wenger on a "results" only basis then he has to step up big time IMHO, he's not doing his job properly.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I don't think we would have won the league but I think we would have picked up a shiny spoon or two...

The injuries are worrying and something I reserve opinion on to a large extent as I'm hardly a health specialist..... I have no real idea how much of it is to do with what we're doing in training. You'd think the pretty triangle passing drill isn't that gruelling.

Felix Megath has some form with gruelling training regimes so if he remains I'd be interested to see if his squad drop like flies or not....

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Fine margins really......well a 10 million discrepancy is no fine margin by a mere mortals standards....but I think that was the difference between Liverpool screaming blue murder and mugging us off and getting the bloke.... despite the fact I didn't want him here for personal reasons.

Nobody would have a chance to sign him for 50 million now never mind 40 million and a sixpence.

[IBK]

Yep, it's a concern that we seem to let our star players leave so easily.

Whilst what Liverpool did was very underhand regarding Suarez, I admire them for keeping him and then getting him to sign a new contract. If he does go now and I really do not think he will, Liverpool could easily command a world record fee for him.

Rodgers has Liverpool playing as a team, when it has come to the crucial games they have pretty much stepped up, especially in the business end of the season.

I agree, moreover if we are to judge Wenger on a "results" only basis then he has to step up big time IMHO, he's not doing his job properly.

Yep. Its all about momentum. Like it or not, Liverpool have stepped up while we flatter to deceive.

[Munchies]

Biggest thing in Liverpool's favour: Momentum, Anfield, and their strikers.

Win their remaining games, they win it.

[Niall_Quinn]

The refs will play the biggest part in where this title ends up.

[Bumble]

The refs will play the biggest part in where this title ends up.
no they don't otherwise you wouldn't have the best teams at the top and the worst teams at the bottom. matches are 90 minutes long and it isn't the fault of a ref if a team cant create chances.

[Niall_Quinn]

no they don't otherwise you wouldn't have the best teams at the top and the worst teams at the bottom. matches are 90 minutes long and it isn't the fault of a ref if a team cant create chances.

Your logic doesn't work. Nobody said the refs are playing instead of the players and there are plenty of managers at the lower end of the table who'd have a view on this. But one or two critical decisions in the key matches, that's what will decide it. We don't have long to wait to confirm this.