The "Where is the Fabregas thread" thread

[Flavs]

would you? really?

he is available for a negotiable £30mil...

Wants champions league football... Manyoo :pal:

[GP]

He's not coming.

Spurs might have him.

[Ollie the Optimist]

hes a world class player who would massively improve us but there is also one other reason for signing him. The "man city reason", signing him so no one else can have him.

[Flavs]

I think we need another central midfielder personally, Ramsey and Wheelchair are both prone to long spells out and its not like we can rely on Diaby

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I would little bit sign Rakitic tbf.

Can I countenance us signing Cesc merely so other teams don't get him? Yeah probably.

[Injury Time]

Chavs can't afford his salary demands...City it is /thread

[Niall_Quinn]

It's really something when you manage to be a bigger comedy club than the gypos. Cuntalona are the biggest joke in football. Huge welcoming ceremonies, bring the prodigal son home, play him out of position, flog him. And they haven't even paid us yet. Fans get criticised for applying FIFA wishlists to the transfer market, but the Cuntalonians do it for real, using the money they rob from the other Spanish clubs and the Spanish taxpayer.

[I am invisible]

Would love to have him back, and I'm sure we'd find a way to fit him in if it happened, but it would have to be something that we look at after we got other, more essential, business done first, and not before.

Unless, of course, we have far more money available to spend than we know, and can comfortably afford to do everything else we want, regardless of what Cesc would cost? Not that likely, but it's a nice thought...

[AFC Leveller]

Cesc as a DCM in place of FARTeta with Ramsey and Ozil just ahead. If anyone can play a disciplined CM role its Cesc.

If he signs for Chelsea/Maureen, Football will die forever, no matter whar happens.

[Dein-machine]

He's coming home, fed up with sitting on the bench & shagging birds with hairy armpits.
Just think of what's in store for him, after having Messrs Messi & Neymar to play with, he's coming back to Giroud & Sonogo! - If it wasn't so funny you'd cry.

[Bumble]

Maybe we are playing the long game here, there is no rush to sign him as we are in the box seat anyway with him personally. as the summer goes on perhaps barcas price will go down and then we can snap him up for £10m and write off the debt still owed to us. Allow us to focus on the other areas that need strengthening.

[I am invisible]

Arsenal DNA :bow:

[Bergkampwonderland10]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27720171

[fakeyank]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27720171

:banghead:

Waits for Kallstrom to be signed permanently :rolleyes:

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Apparently he'll be playing for Chelsea next season.

[Penguin]

Oh. Good for him. :coffee:

[Maestro]

hope he's got his HGV/bus driver licence, he'll need it

[GP]

hope he's got HIV

Me too :coffee:

[Flavs]

There are, of course, strong rumours that Barca still owe us a large portion of his transfer fee. I do wonder if we are playing Barca here to see if we can get him at a vastly reduced price and wipe their slate clean

Also be interesting to see what the new Monaco manager is looking for

[Özim]

:banghead:

Waits for Kallstrom to be signed permanently :rolleyes:

We're suppose to want Kallstrom the crock, it's a joke really, he's a has been that never was that noone wants, we should be setting our sights a bit higher.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27720171

Where are all those Barca legends now, pulling shirts over his head? Strangely quiet, or busy tapping up the next circus act.

[GP]

He knows he should never have left.

I hope it keeps him awake at night.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

The prospect at earning 200k a week at chelsea is probably keeping him awake at night.

[Niall_Quinn]

The prospect at earning 200k a week at chelsea is probably keeping him awake at night.

He's going in at junior rates? Poor old Cesc.

[Munchies]

I hope Cesc's career goes to shit now.

Would be funny if he ended up like Hleb/Ade

[Özim]

I hope Cesc's career goes to shit now.

Would be funny if he ended up like Hleb/Ade

It won't, they were overrated wannabe's, he's the real deal.

[Munchies]

It won't, they were overrated wannabe's, he's the real deal.

I know :(

[Penguin]

We're suppose to want Kallstrom the crock, it's a joke really, he's a has been that never was that noone wants, we should be setting our sights a bit higher.

There's nothing wrong with signing Kallstrom - he's a cheap squad player who's going to be 4th or 5th choice anyway and will only play to cover for injuries.

But I hope we sign a couple of forwards before we even start the negotiations for Kallstrom. Priorities Wenger!

[I am invisible]

As I've said before, I have no problem bringing Kallstrom back in on a short-term deal if - IF - it's because we've done an impressive amount of spending on other areas and have run out of money, or because our long-term central/defensive midfield targets aren't available just yet, and we're buying ourselves some time. If we're just going for him as the cheap option for the sake of it though, then it's a no for me...

[I am invisible]

Well, I guess that's that with Fabs then - I suppose the positive has to be that, if we've turned down our first refusal on him (and the prices being mentioned didn't look like anything we couldn't afford), then you'd like to think it's because we have other plans for the money?

[Xhaka Can’t]

To get a bigger mattress to stuff it all in?

[I am invisible]

Maybe an olympic size swimming pool, so they can go swimming in it like Scrooge McDuck?

[Munchies]

Well, I guess that's that with Fabs then - I suppose the positive has to be that, if we've turned down our first refusal on him (and the prices being mentioned didn't look like anything we couldn't afford), then you'd like to think it's because we have other plans for the money?

If that £30m saved goes towards £30m on Reus, then Wenger :bow:

Reus never stops running, would provide good cover for Gibbs, and is more of an attacking threat on the wings compared to Pods.

[I am invisible]

If that £30m saved goes towards £30m on Reus, then Wenger :bow:

Reus never stops running, would provide good cover for Gibbs, and is more of an attacking threat on the wings compared to Pods.

And if there's any kind of sell-on clause, then we may get some of the Cesc transfer money to top-up our budget? Ditto for Vela, if he goes anywhere.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

If that £30m saved goes towards £30m on Reus, then Wenger :bow:

Reus never stops running, would provide good cover for Gibbs, and is more of an attacking threat on the wings compared to Pods.

I still hope we go in for Draxler but obviously for a decent price…not silly money.

[Munchies]

I still hope we go in for Draxler but obviously for a decent price…not silly money.

I don't really want Draxler, he won't be ready anytime soon and it's alot of money for someone unproven.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Unproven?

We'll take him!

[Munchies]

:lol:

But yeah, I'd rather get either Reus or Griezmann as our left wingers, so where Pods usually plays, and a top striker to lead the line rather than getting Draxler and trying to convert him into a striker which doesn't sound too promising as he's fairly slow.

Ramsey - CDM

Ox/Feo - Ozil - Griezmann/Reus

----Striker----

:pray:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

:lol:

But yeah, I'd rather get either Reus or Griezmann as our left wingers, so where Pods usually plays, and a top striker to lead the line rather than getting Draxler and trying to convert him into a striker which doesn't sound too promising as he's fairly slow.

Ramsey - CDM

Ox/Feo - Ozil - Griezmann/Reus

----Striker----

I know you got this Reus obsession Munchies :lol: but I can categorically say we've got 0% chance of getting him. Dortmund won't sell him especially after already losing Ledwandoski and with possibly Gundogen going as well. Plus tbh we're not a much more of an attractive proposition than Dortmund if at all for Reus himself to force through the move.

Agree with Draxler. He's had a poor season and I'm not sure he's exactly what we need now and would be ridiculously expensive.

Greizmann on the other hand is perfect: proven and easily attainable. He's French, mates with Giroud and we've got leverage with Sociedad. God knows why we haven't snapped him up already. I'm going to kill Wenger if Real or PSG end up getting him at the end of the window and he ends up being class for them. It's signs of the usual dithering and indecisiveness from Wenger.

My hopeful line up for new season:

Ramsey - DM

Ox/Feo - Ozil/Santi - Griezmann

----Striker----


Though juding by Ornstein's last comments DM doesn't seem like a priority for Wenger and he'll probably try and eek out another season from Arteta/Flamini until one of his first choice targets is available (probably someone younger than Bender now).

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Cesc 2011 "'Apart from Arsenal and Barcelona, I don't see myself playing anywhere else,and if there is one place to go back to, it is Arsenal for sure.'
he told Sky Sports News.

Cesc 2014 "I'm so happy to a Chelsea player, playing the Mourinho way"

[Slacker]

Reus got crocked last night. Ligament damage and out of WC. *edit - note to self, must keep up*

This Fabregas situation depresses me. I'm still not convinced Ozil won't turn into another Arshavin and we're letting a World Class player go to the chavs while waiting for the end of the transfer window. In the meantime, Liverpool have been quietly going about their business, getting the new guys in before the WC, Chelsea are getting their business done as well. Both finished a few points ahead of us but right now with who they're getting in, we're a lot further behind them now.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR4kFC-bKok

:coffee:

[Özim]

Cesc 2011 "'Apart from Arsenal and Barcelona, I don't see myself playing anywhere else,and if there is one place to go back to, it is Arsenal for sure.'
he told Sky Sports News.

Cesc 2014 "I'm so happy to a Chelsea player, playing the Mourinho way"

Problem is Barca don't want him and neither do we, so what else can he say or do?

[Xhaka Can’t]

This is it. We can hardly tell him we don't want him and then get upset over who he subsequently chooses.

[GP]

This is it. We can hardly tell him we don't want him and then get upset over who he subsequently chooses.

Who is the 'we' in this scenario?

The club say they don't want him so I can't be upset?

Doesn't follow.

[Injury Time]

Who is the 'we' in this scenario?

The club say they don't want him so I can't be upset?

Doesn't follow.
We can't afford his wages, little bit skint I guess

[Xhaka Can’t]

Who is the 'we' in this scenario?

The club say they don't want him so I can't be upset?

Doesn't follow.

Being upset at the Club's decision not to sign him makes sense. But once that decision has been made, it is unreasonable to get upset at the player for taking up whatever option is available to him.

I wasn't happy with the way Fabregas engineered his move to Barcelona. I highly doubt though that if at the time he thought for a minute, he'd end up with those scroates at the Bridge, he'd have made that move.

He's in a shit position - apparently being forced out by his boyhood Club and not wanted by the Club that made him. Yep, its his fault he is in that situation, but he has to play for someone.

[GP]

If he goes to Chelsea, it's because he's choosing to go there.

No one's forcing him.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'll find it difficult not to puke at the sight of him in a Chelsea shirt.

But if we have the gist of the story, it goes something like this:

Barca have him as surplus to requirements.

He wanted to come back to Arsenal.

We don't want him and have declined our option which we insisted as being a part of the transfer agreement.

If we don't want him - it would then be a bit rich for him to be restricted to a list of teams he can choose from so our feelings aren't hurt.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

We can't afford his wages, little bit skint I guess

:haha:

[Munchies]

If he goes to Chelsea, it's because he's choosing to go there.

No one's forcing him.

Prob that millionaire's divorced wife he's now with, living in London and everything :coffee:

[Slacker]

The Chelsea 1st XI line-up for next season looks a bit daunting thanks to Arsene:

GK - Cech
RB - Ivanovic
LB - Azpilicueta
CD - Cahill
CD - Terry
DM - Matic
CM - Oscar
RM - Willian
LM - Hazard
AM - Fabregas
CF - Costa

Then you've got Courtois, Ramires, Schurrle, Torres, Ba, Salah, etc.

Look a bit light at the back but with a back four who aren't made of glass like our lot, they will reinforce there. Mourinho always manages to get a decent defender or two, unlike Arsene. Maybe they'll even get Ashley Williams in and make him look a world beater while AW ponders over whether £4M for a 29 yo CD might be lacking a little sharpness.

I don't know about you guys but this looks to me like another major coup for Chelsea. Worryingly the names being bandied about who we are allegedly after don't seem to go any way to address the spankings we took at Citeh, Liverpool and at the Bridge. We have a weak spine and the heads go down too quickly. Not sure how 21 year old Bundesliga lightweights, La Liga benchwarming strikers and anything these days from Serie A is looking like a good move while we pass on the chance of bringing back a World Class prodigal. Balotelli? Fuck off.

[I am invisible]

Didn't they sign that Zouma lad at CB too? He's supposed to be a decent prospect...

[Slacker]

Aye. Another player who snubbed United because he wanted Arsenal and ended up at Chelsea. I could be wrong, but there may be a pattern emerging here.

Don't worry though guys, AKB :unsure:

[I am invisible]

Well we can't be worrying about what Chelsea and other clubs are doing - 99% of that squad is already there without any help from us anyway, and, if we've decided that we don't need Fabs ourselves, then we can't afford to be signing him just to make sure other clubs can't have him. Wouldn't stop Chelsea going out and buying someone else anyway - all it would mean is that we'd have 30-40m less to go after our own targets...

[Bergkampwonderland10]

I wonder if Barca still owe us some money from the Fabregas sale? It was only 3 years ago he left wasn't it? Cant see them completing their 35million payment already. If he is for sale for 29 million, I honestly believe we should buy him, if only to keep out of the hands of Chelsea and Man Utd. He would fit perfectly for Chelsea and we would look like a laughing stock again having let him walk there. I really hope the fact no deal has yet been announced means nothing has been decided yet and our lack of interest is in fact a smoke screen and Cesc holds out a little longer…so we get the 'feel good factor' of a major signing a little later. I really hope that our transfer business is being done now in a discrete manner…and all the journos that think they know everything like Ornstein…are totally off the scent. Signing Balotteli, Remy (and keeping Podolski) would be fine up front in my opinion and they would be around 30million. I think Lars bender would be an excellent signing, along with Cesc and a winger Sanchez…then sort out the defence with Begovic, Caulker, and Aurier and we'd look in good shape.

[Slacker]

As I understand it Barca still owe Arsenal a substantial amount running into millions. I've heard £7M but I think it might be more than that.

Agree we can't worry about what Chelsea or other clubs are up to but BW10 is bang on when he says we would look a laughingstock if we let Cesc go there because he is the last piece of their jigsaw. That line-up is phenomenal - speed, skill, power, strength and the capability of scoring goals all over the park. Look at Arsenal and we know we need another CD, a CDM who will roll his sleeves up and screen the back four without whingeing to the ref the whole time, a CF who is quick and will hit the ground scoring from the off, and a full back who has pace, can actually cross the ball and even better can score a goal or two.

When you look at who Arsenal are reportedly after, Aurier ticks the boxes at the back, sure. Not sure why we need Lars Bender as he is an attacking midfielder, something we have plenty of already (one of the reasons we decided against Cesc, allegedly). Sven Bender is a consideration, but he's on a long contract and Dortmund won't be selling him any time soon. We've seen enough of Kalou to know he's a lightweight who ducks out of a scrap. Don't we have enough players like that already? Balotelli is a nutjob who will implode with frustration the first game we go 2-0 down after 5 minutes (we know it will happen, AW's in charge) just like Gallas did against Birmingham when Eddie got crocked by some nobody pubber. Do we need a player like that anyway? He's fallen out with every team he's belonged to.

Not sure why we're after the benchwarming kid at RM. AFC's recruitment of young lightweight forwards has never been that great. Remy would be a logical step providing he gets a regular game and gets his scoring boots on. I get the feeling AW would use him as an impact sub which could turn him into the new Nicky B. I know little about Pedro - but isn't he again an attacking MF, something we don't need?

I understand Atletico want Vela and expect Arsenal to get their arse in gear and do some kind of deal so they can offload Costa to Chelsea. I'd like to think AW would actually have the balls to say we'll give you Vela and a wad of cash and we'll take Costa. Sadly Arsenal don't do those deals anymore, we're happy to be the middle man getting royally shafted while everyone else benefits.

Me bitter? Probably. My grapes are definitely sour today. I can only reminisce about the times when they were full and plump and juicy - the days of Pires, Overmars, Henry, Petit, Vieira, Edu, Adams, Campbell, Gilberto, Wiltord, Kanu, Seaman - sigh...

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

The Chelsea 1st XI line-up for next season looks a bit daunting thanks to Arsene:

GK - Cech
RB - Ivanovic
LB - Azpilicueta
CD - Cahill
CD - Terry
DM - Matic
CM - Oscar
RM - Willian
LM - Hazard
AM - Fabregas
CF - Costa

Then you've got Courtois, Ramires, Schurrle, Torres, Ba, Salah, etc.

Chelsea have actually quietly gone about acquiring a phenomenally expensive squad. And the insane wages that go with it too.

Matic - £22m, Oscar £25m, Willian £32m, Hazard £32m, (Fabregas £30m), (Costa £32m), (Filipe £17m), Schurrle £18m, Salah £11m, Zouma £12m. And then the likes of Ginkel, Marin, Moses, Ba all bought for about £8m each, and those like Ramires, Lukaku and of course Torres who were bought a few years ago for big money as well.

Helped in no small part to getting enormous fees for Luiz and Mata I'm sure, and if you believe the press possibly Hazard to PSG as well.

But yeah, they're definitely a little horse.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

For me, Wenger is a super talented manager, and there is probably no one better in terms of his vision of the game and the way it should be played. He has made so many young players brilliant too…so there is absolutely no question of his talent there…but his biggest failing and something which I fear will never be 'fixed' is his short-sightedness when refusing to consider the teams that are a direct challenge to us…and by that I mean tactics on the pitch and transfers off it. FOR ONCE, I would like him to be a little tactical when it comes to transfers…and say there is no way in hell he'd let Cesc walk to Chelsea. Now, when Fabregas left us for Barcelona, I actually never thought he'd leave them and I was quite happy for him to go because we'd basically built our team around him and he was agitating for a move…so to be honest, I never really wanted him back, I think a lot of fans had had enough of his whinging. I also thought he slowed our game to much with his sideways passes (although he always made a game-changing move in 90 mins…) sometimes his over-passing just killed me. BUT, he does have a lot to offer and maybe surround by different players and not being held in the same regard as he once was would be of benefit to him. He would be coming back to fight for a position not guaranteed one. BUT the most important thing would be he would not be pulling on a chelsea shirt. I am not 100% convinced of Chelsea's interest in Fabregas…they might well be looking at other targets too..and trying to get us to force our hand early…I don't understand why they would sell Mata and bring in Fabregas…very similar players imo.

[Grebbo]

Well for me this is a sad day. Fabregas in a Chelsea shirt! FFS!

He's the Arsenal player I've enjoyed watching the most post Invincible's. Never loses the ball and a killer passer. I have no idea why we've let him join Chelsea, he's better than anything we have in midfield other than Ramsey of 13/14. Premiership proven, knows the club, fans love him, knows Arsene. There's just no risk in signing Fabregas and was a good price as well.

Madness IMO.

Maureen and Fabregas. Eugh!

[Niall_Quinn]

Well for me this is a sad day. Fabregas in a Chelsea shirt! FFS!

He's the Arsenal player I've enjoyed watching the most post Invincible's. Never loses the ball and a killer passer. I have no idea why we've let him join Chelsea, he's better than anything we have in midfield other than Ramsey of 13/14. Premiership proven, knows the club, fans love him, knows Arsene. There's just no risk in signing Fabregas and was a good price as well.

Madness IMO.

Maureen and Fabregas. Eugh!

He wasn't available on a free transfer and apparently he wanted wages too. Plus he wouldn't pay us to join. So it was never really a viable option.

Joking aside, it's another van Cash sized scandal - finances above everything, the heart and essence of the club and the desires of the fans - nowhere. I think eventually it will be the joyless bankers running Arsenal rather then the gypsies, gangsters and Blatters that will make me not want to watch this game any more. Fans are more than ever on the outside, but it's a lot more expensive to be pissed on these days.

[Niall_Quinn]

So who will be runner-up to the chavs this season - obviously they have won it now they have added gold plated quality to the critical areas. We could have stopped part of that and massively helped ourselves in the process but chose to invest in cattle ranches instead.

What does that bloke Kroenke actually do? Has he even bought a round of drinks yet?

Gypos? Scousers? Us, if Vela magically transforms into a world class striker?

[KSE Comedy Club]

Just to add fuel to your fire NQ, there is one story doing the rounds today that, as Vela doesn't want to come back here, we are considering buying him for the £3.5m so that we can sell him on in this window for £15m.

Normally we would all laugh at stories like this, but the way we now seem to operate - anything is possible.

[I am invisible]

Doesn't part of the buy-back clause stipulate that we can't sell him for a year if we activated it? That scenario all seems a bit far-fetched to me anyway (not to mention a pretty shitty thing to do) - I think this is either exactly what it seems, and we're trying to bring him back, or we're negotiating with Sociedad about them buying our share of the rights.

Incidentally, I wouldn't put too much stock in those quotes about Vela not wanting to come back - for one thing they're second-hand quotes that have come from Sociedad's president and not directly from him, and even if they are true, he's also on record as saying that he'd be open to a return, that he thinks he's better prepared to deal with living in England now, and that we'd be stupid not to take him back. Basically he seems to have said something that covers him for every eventuality so far...

[Injury Time]

Doesn't part of the buy-back clause stipulate that we can't sell him for a year if we activated it? That scenario all seems a bit far-fetched to me anyway (not to mention a pretty shitty thing to do) - I think this is either exactly what it seems, and we're trying to bring him back, or we're negotiating with Sociedad about them buying our share of the rights.

Incidentally, I wouldn't put too much stock in those quotes about Vela not wanting to come back - for one thing they're second-hand quotes that have come from Sociedad's president and not directly from him, and even if they are true, he's also on record as saying that he'd be open to a return, that he thinks he's better prepared to deal with living in England now, and that we'd be stupid not to take him back. Basically he seems to have said something that covers him for every eventuality so far...

I imagine any sell on restriction could be waved by the "wishes of the player", I guess any delay in announcement just adds fuel to the embers...or the club stretching this out for our only signing...other than Diaby return...Theo return..secure services of Kallstrom...the Greek kid will be used to offset Wilshire, Ox, Kos, Bif coming home in body bags.

[Syn]

Could this be moved to 'other football'?

That'll show him.

[Penguin]

The impression I got from what Vela said was that he'd be more than happy to come back to us as long as he plays regularly. But he has absolutely no intention of being a bit-part player again - he wants games and he wants them now. If we do bring him back he deserves to be given a real chance this time.

As for buying him just to sell him for a profit, that's fine by me as long as Wenger is nowhere near the negotiations. Keep him focused on our real transfer targets and use the £12m extra to fund them.

[Injury Time]

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Heartbroken-football-fanatic-tattoo-team-s-crest/story-21233095-detail/story.html?

I always thought NQ would be more daper tbh

[fakeyank]

Good read..

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/13/arsenal-fans-should-aim-anger-at-arsene-wenger-not-cesc-fabregas

[Niall_Quinn]

Good read..

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/13/arsenal-fans-should-aim-anger-at-arsene-wenger-not-cesc-fabregas

It is. Nicely summarises the impossibility of raising even a token justification for not taking up the no-brain offer. He forgot the bit about us still being owed money, I think in the end we'd have picked him up for around £20mill. The reduction would have covered the first year's wages. Fucking crazy.

[selassie]

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Heartbroken-football-fanatic-tattoo-team-s-crest/story-21233095-detail/story.html?

I always thought NQ would be more daper tbh

:lol:

[Underhill and over Grove]

I know Wenger will say that we have other priorities and that signing Fabregas would "kill" Ramsey and Wilshere, but there comes a point where he needs to accept the environment he is in and that if he does not sign Fabregas, one of our biggest rivals will. Realistically only 5 clubs in the world could afford him, and 2 of these were in a city he wanted to live in.

With Chavski having Costa and Fabregas already signed, and another one of our "rivals" having stolen Sagna, we are looking a bit pathetic again.

[BOBN]

Top decision by Wenger. A lazy, specialist in failure player in decline.

Where are all those who said Fabregas would go there and prove Xavi and the like were inferior because ge can do assists? :lol: he was like a fish out of water next to real class

Heres what the official Barca website had to say:

'But despite glowing starts to each campaign, Cesc’s contributions to the cause gradually decreased as each season drew to a close. From being someone who joined in with the attack, supplying and scoring goals, the magic tended to fade later on in each season. He only scored one, six and one goals in the last 24 games of each season. For some reason, he was never as good in the second half of a season as in the first.'
Arsenals most unsuccessful captain and the root cause of our late season declines. Arsenal FC is not his personal hotel and we have other problems to worry about than signing back up for Ozil.

That Wenger is not giving a shyt about what soppy fans think proves these a gimmer of hope that theres still some vintage Wenger left in there somewhere.

[Niall_Quinn]

Simply another demonstration of just how classless Barca are.

[Grebbo]

Where are all those who said Fabregas would go there and prove Xavi and the like were inferior because ge can do assists? :lol: he was like a fish out of water next to real class

Didn't Fab provide the most assists for Barca last season? Setting up goals is a pretty good attribute tbf.

Wenger knew Fab would be available this summer. Remember when Moyes was bidding for him last summer? (Moyes :lol:) Wenger was asked at the time about the situation and he said Fab wouldn't move that summer but would the next. So if Wenger had wanted Fab he wouldn't have bought Ozil and would've just waited another season for Fab. Wenger must think Ozil is the better player and they both can't play in the same team.

[Slacker]

Happy to out myself as a soppy fan on this one. Maybe we park this one until the end of the season and let's see how successful Cesc is in comparison to Iniesta, Xavi, Rakitic, Barca, AW, Arsenal, Man U, etc.

Off the top of my head I know for a fact that when Cesc was at Barca he scored more goals per season than Xavi and Iniesta. Considerably more goals except in his first season when Xavi scored one less. Not bad for an assist specialist.

I'm still not convinced about Ozil. Some people are saying he's going to kick on next season but I'm not sure. His demeanour and his propensity to not roll his sleeves up when we're under the cosh is totally different to Cesc, who was there on the front line in a battle.

My faith in AW is shot TBH. He reminds me of GG the season before he was sacked - happy to let things rot to prove he's the one in the right (and as we all know, he wasn't).

[Letters]

We have just won the FA Cup and finished with the most points for about 5 years.
Right now I think the decision on Cesc was the wrong one BUT our midfield is probably our strongest area squad-wise and IF we make the right signings elsewhere (big if) then it could still be a decent transfer window.

[Niall_Quinn]

We just won the FA Cup and finished with our most points for 5 years.

That's precisely why we HAD TO buy Fabregas. Momentum, morale, buzz, progress, ambition.

If we get Pogba then I'll say wow, something bigger was in the works so great. If we get Bastien, same thing.

If we get Barry then stick your head out the window and listen for gunshots because I'm going on the rampage. Every time we get a foothold the club does something to smash the fans and leave them in a big bloody pile on the ground.

It could still come, we could still bring in real quality. But there's a way to manage these things, a way to build the expectation and then deliver on it. The bods at Arsenal are masters of building desperation.

[Letters]

It does feel flat at the moment but let's see what they do this summer.
If it's nothing much or some 18 year old French kid then I'll be joining you on the rampage.

[selassie]

We have just won the FA Cup and finished with the most points for about 5 years.
Right now I think the decision on Cesc was the wrong one BUT our midfield is probably our strongest area squad-wise and IF we make the right signings elsewhere (big if) then it could still be a decent transfer window.

It might be the strongest area now but it remains to be seen whether it will be at the start of the season.

Cazorla's quotes about not wanting to discuss his future with his agent until after the world cup smacks of someone who is looking to leave, especially given Athletico Madrid's interest. If he was happy he would have put that rumour to bed.

I think we will do well to keep him, mind you it wouldn't be surprising if we sold him for 20million Euros and wheeled out the "we have Joel Campbell and Serge Gnabry, Cazorla would have killed them" type statement.

[Letters]

If Cazorla goes then not going for Fabregas will have been madness, as it is with Ozil, Ramsey and Cazorla with Flamini, Wilshere and Arteta we've got pretty good depth in midfield IMO.
I think letting Fabregas go to Chelsea was a mistake, how big a mistake can only be gauged when the transfer window SLAMS shut.

[Penguin]

Happy to out myself as a soppy fan on this one. Maybe we park this one until the end of the season and let's see how successful Cesc is in comparison to Iniesta, Xavi, Rakitic, Barca, AW, Arsenal, Man U, etc.

Off the top of my head I know for a fact that when Cesc was at Barca he scored more goals per season than Xavi and Iniesta. Considerably more goals except in his first season when Xavi scored one less. Not bad for an assist specialist.

I'm still not convinced about Ozil. Some people are saying he's going to kick on next season but I'm not sure. His demeanour and his propensity to not roll his sleeves up when we're under the cosh is totally different to Cesc, who was there on the front line in a battle.

My faith in AW is shot TBH. He reminds me of GG the season before he was sacked - happy to let things rot to prove he's the one in the right (and as we all know, he wasn't).

Fabregas isn't the demi-god some of you guys are making him out to be. His stats were impressive but to put them into perspective he played the majority of his games as a false nine, NOT as a central midfielder. Even Bendtner could get a 1 in 3 record as a Barca forward...

Now there has to be a reason why Cesc was being played out of position. He was literally bought as the long term successor to Xavi, to fill his gigantic boots when he eventually decides to hang them up. But within a few months they gave up on that and shoved him upfront. Initially it was to fit everyone in the team but there is only one logical explanation why he was never trusted with a real opportunity in the Xavi role. It was because he wasn't good enough, in their eyes at least.

Xavi or Iniesta have very unique roles and Cesc isn't even close to them at their best. He's not as fluid as them, slows down the game by taking too much time on the ball and he loses the ball by going for speculative long passes when he should keep possession. He doesn't impose himself in matches and he completely disappears in big matches.

I know what you're thinking - that doesn't sound like Cesc, right? Go and find a Barca forum and read up for yourself. He's their Statinho, racking up the stats and looking good on paper but having a negative impact on the performance of the team.

The reaction from Barca says it all. Where's the public outcry from the fans? Where's his team mates telling us how shocked they are? Where's the national team coach; calling Barca stupid for making the mistake of selling him? That's what Ozil got, a player that is universally considered a better player than Cesc. Meanwhile Barca have almost got a replacement in Rakitic faster than Fabregas can be kicked out of the door. As for their fans, they were far more upset about Thiago leaving to Bayern. Again, if you don't believe me go and look on a Barca forum - on the whole they are actually happy to see the back of Cesc, who they believe was holding them back, and was one of the reasons they lost a better player in Thiago.

That's not to say that Fabregas is a bad player. We all know how brilliant he can be. But there's no reason to slit our wrists because we didn't buy him considering the CAMs we already have. I'd actually applaud Wenger on having the courage to say no to him provided he uses the money to buy world class players, true game changers in the positions we need them in. If not then yeah, bring on the rampage/massacre/mass suicide.

[Power n Glory]

If Cesc were the only 'flop' or player not to fit into their system, you'd have a valid point. Yaya Toure, Ibrahimovic, Alexis Sanchez....some players just don't suit a system. Cesc is more suited to the Prem because he's used to having freedom to roam. When he first moved to Barca, Pep marked that trait as a weakness whereas here at Arsenal, it would be a bonus.

As for Ozil...the verdict is still out. He might not be the player we need. It can happen. Cesc aside, i think Cazorla had a more successful debut season. Reputation can only take you so far.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Cazorla might have had a better debut season, but Ozil was comfortably better then him last season so not quite sure what your point is?

[Slacker]

Cazorla might have had a better debut season, but Ozil was comfortably better then him last season so not quite sure what your point is?

Was Ozil that good last season?

Been around a long time and Ozil looks to me like someone desperate to move to a really big club, which he feels Arsenal aren't. Like to consider I'm wrong, but Ozil looks to me like someone who came along for a ride. Hope I'm wrong.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Was Ozil that good last season?

Been around a long time and Ozil looks to me like someone desperate to move to a really big club, which he feels Arsenal aren't. Like to consider I'm wrong, but Ozil looks to me like someone who came along for a ride. Hope I'm wrong.

what have you been smoking? Ozil looks desperate to move to a big club? He just left real madrid with all their world class players to sign a five year deal with us ffs.

Ozil was good last season, anyone with a brain can see that, he massively improved the squad because he is a world class player. He got 9 assists last season, and that was with Giroud in front of him, he was a much bigger threat when Theo was playing as he could spot his runs, he would have got many more had Theo been fit.

[Slacker]

Thanks for your respect Ollie. You're clearly so right.

[Power n Glory]

Cazorla might have had a better debut season, but Ozil was comfortably better then him last season so not quite sure what your point is?

That's debatable. I wouldn't say comfortably. I think Cazorla offers more drive and influence from the centre compared to Ozil. Yes, we had Giroud but Cazorla managed 12 goals and 12 assists last season. Point being, Ozil still needs surpass Cazorla's influence from his debut before we even talk about Cesc.

Technically, Ozil may be a better player than Cesc but he might not fit into our system. It's a possibility. Which takes me back to my original point about other good players that had to find homes away from Barca but they didn't suit the style.

[BOBN]

Happy to out myself as a soppy fan on this one. Maybe we park this one until the end of the season and let's see how successful Cesc is in comparison to Iniesta, Xavi, Rakitic, Barca, AW, Arsenal, Man U, etc.

Off the top of my head I know for a fact that when Cesc was at Barca he scored more goals per season than Xavi and Iniesta. Considerably more goals except in his first season when Xavi scored one less. Not bad for an assist specialist.

Well then its a wonder tha Xavi/Iniesta have been integral for Barca and Spain while Cesc is a bit part.

If you cant see that Xavi has been the greatest Spanish player of all time, then I dont know what to say to you. Dictating the most successful sides, defining Tika-taka, dominating eras >>>> a few bit part assists as a pseudo-forward

[BOBN]

Fabregas isn't the demi-god some of you guys are making him out to be. His stats were impressive but to put them into perspective he played the majority of his games as a false nine, NOT as a central midfielder. Even Bendtner could get a 1 in 3 record as a Barca forward...

Now there has to be a reason why Cesc was being played out of position. He was literally bought as the long term successor to Xavi, to fill his gigantic boots when he eventually decides to hang them up. But within a few months they gave up on that and shoved him upfront. Initially it was to fit everyone in the team but there is only one logical explanation why he was never trusted with a real opportunity in the Xavi role. It was because he wasn't good enough, in their eyes at least.

Xavi or Iniesta have very unique roles and Cesc isn't even close to them at their best. He's not as fluid as them, slows down the game by taking too much time on the ball and he loses the ball by going for speculative long passes when he should keep possession. He doesn't impose himself in matches and he completely disappears in big matches.

I know what you're thinking - that doesn't sound like Cesc, right? Go and find a Barca forum and read up for yourself. He's their Statinho, racking up the stats and looking good on paper but having a negative impact on the performance of the team.

The reaction from Barca says it all. Where's the public outcry from the fans? Where's his team mates telling us how shocked they are? Where's the national team coach; calling Barca stupid for making the mistake of selling him? That's what Ozil got, a player that is universally considered a better player than Cesc. Meanwhile Barca have almost got a replacement in Rakitic faster than Fabregas can be kicked out of the door. As for their fans, they were far more upset about Thiago leaving to Bayern. Again, if you don't believe me go and look on a Barca forum - on the whole they are actually happy to see the back of Cesc, who they believe was holding them back, and was one of the reasons they lost a better player in Thiago.

That's not to say that Fabregas is a bad player. We all know how brilliant he can be. But there's no reason to slit our wrists because we didn't buy him considering the CAMs we already have. I'd actually applaud Wenger on having the courage to say no to him provided he uses the money to buy world class players, true game changers in the positions we need them in. If not then yeah, bring on the rampage/massacre/mass suicide.
Stop on.

I believe Wenger moved him forward into the number 10 position for similar reasons. Hes indisiplined and too lazy to play central midfield anymore, a liability. And at Barca he simply didnt have the technique to do so.

A very knowledgable post well done.

[mastermind84]

Fabregas isn't the demi-god some of you guys are making him out to be. His stats were impressive but to put them into perspective he played the majority of his games as a false nine, NOT as a central midfielder. Even Bendtner could get a 1 in 3 record as a Barca forward...

Now there has to be a reason why Cesc was being played out of position. He was literally bought as the long term successor to Xavi, to fill his gigantic boots when he eventually decides to hang them up. But within a few months they gave up on that and shoved him upfront. Initially it was to fit everyone in the team but there is only one logical explanation why he was never trusted with a real opportunity in the Xavi role. It was because he wasn't good enough, in their eyes at least.

Xavi or Iniesta have very unique roles and Cesc isn't even close to them at their best. He's not as fluid as them, slows down the game by taking too much time on the ball and he loses the ball by going for speculative long passes when he should keep possession. He doesn't impose himself in matches and he completely disappears in big matches.

I know what you're thinking - that doesn't sound like Cesc, right? Go and find a Barca forum and read up for yourself. He's their Statinho, racking up the stats and looking good on paper but having a negative impact on the performance of the team.

The reaction from Barca says it all. Where's the public outcry from the fans? Where's his team mates telling us how shocked they are? Where's the national team coach; calling Barca stupid for making the mistake of selling him? That's what Ozil got, a player that is universally considered a better player than Cesc. Meanwhile Barca have almost got a replacement in Rakitic faster than Fabregas can be kicked out of the door. As for their fans, they were far more upset about Thiago leaving to Bayern. Again, if you don't believe me go and look on a Barca forum - on the whole they are actually happy to see the back of Cesc, who they believe was holding them back, and was one of the reasons they lost a better player in Thiago.

That's not to say that Fabregas is a bad player. We all know how brilliant he can be. But there's no reason to slit our wrists because we didn't buy him considering the CAMs we already have. I'd actually applaud Wenger on having the courage to say no to him provided he uses the money to buy world class players, true game changers in the positions we need them in. If not then yeah, bring on the rampage/massacre/mass suicide.

powerful posting.

[mastermind84]

If Cesc were the only 'flop' or player not to fit into their system, you'd have a valid point. Yaya Toure, Ibrahimovic, Alexis Sanchez....some players just don't suit a system. Cesc is more suited to the Prem because he's used to having freedom to roam. When he first moved to Barca, Pep marked that trait as a weakness whereas here at Arsenal, it would be a bonus.

As for Ozil...the verdict is still out. He might not be the player we need. It can happen. Cesc aside, i think Cazorla had a more successful debut season. Reputation can only take you so far.
Alexis Sanchez had a great season for Barca last year and did fit their system.

He and Messi hate each other apparently.

Yaya fit Barca's system, but they found a better player for them in Busquets.

Zlatan is the only one you have a point with, but Zlatan wins everywhere he goes. Cant say that about Francesc.

And as a #10, Ozil>Cesc

In CM, Ramsey>>Cesc.

He doesnt fit, move on lads.

[Alpha]

powerful posting.
In the world of football , there are exceptional players who can win a game or change it by themselves . Players like Messi , Ronaldo even Luis Suarez are in this category . There are also another category of brilliant players whose efficiency depend on how their coach use them and how their teammates take advantage of their ability on the pitch . This is where we can talk about Fabregas . Wenger knew how to use him and he made the team aware of his ability . Fabregas become the focal point of Arsenal and terrorised many teams for his vision and killer passes . That is what made Barca sniffed around Arsenal for his signature and created the DNA myth just to have him back . But unfortunately Cesc was naive to accept and neither the Barca players nor their coach didn't know how to use him . They made him an ordinary player and shattered his confidence .
But if Fabregas can recover his confidence and be used efficiently he can still become a wonderful central midfielder .

[Power n Glory]

Alexis Sanchez had a great season for Barca last year and did fit their system.

He and Messi hate each other apparently.

Yaya fit Barca's system, but they found a better player for them in Busquets.

Zlatan is the only one you have a point with, but Zlatan wins everywhere he goes. Cant say that about Francesc.

And as a #10, Ozil>Cesc

In CM, Ramsey>>Cesc.

He doesnt fit, move on lads.

I still don’t agree with this argument about Cesc not fitting in. It’s like saying we shouldn’t go for Sanchez because we have Theo as our starting winger on the right with Ox on the bench behind him. You can adjust things slightly to see what works and if we get Sanchez we’ll have to work something out.

Ozil plays on the right for Germany because they have Gotze, Kroos and Muller. We don’t need to overload our team with central attackers like they have, but Ozil isn’t the sort of player that stays in the centre anyway. We drifts to wide positions all the time and does most of his damage in the final third whereas Fabregas can hurt you from the middle of the pitch as well as in the final third. They’re two different players. It doesn’t matter now because he’s gone to Chelsea, but I hope we get our targets in otherwise we’ve missed a trick.

[Niall_Quinn]

But unfortunately Cesc was naive to accept and neither the Barca players nor their coach didn't know how to use him.

Very naive. He went from being the central figure at Arsenal to another one of the crowd to fit in around the established team leaders at Barca. On top of that the whole signing was drowned in politics and the usual Barca circus, every year they compete with Madrid in the same old farce. Neymar will be the next player destroyed by this. Although maybe not, because as we saw with the national team, it's time for Barca to move on and build something new. Doubt they'll learn any lessons about the way they conduct themselves in the transfer market though. Fabregas was such an easy win for us. Big shame, and a scandal if we aren't planning to bring in some serious quality this transfer window. The only redeeming factor is there's a strong chance Maureen won't have a clue how to use Fabregas either. The intensely negative shit going on in chavland won't suit Fabregas at all.

[AFC Leveller]

I would have loved to have Cesc back but the reality is that as good a passer and midfield anchor as he is, Ramsey is a MATCH WINNER for us, he won us so many games on his own last season where as Cesc isnt that kind of player.

[mastermind84]

In the world of football , there are exceptional players who can win a game or change it by themselves . Players like Messi , Ronaldo even Luis Suarez are in this category . There are also another category of brilliant players whose efficiency depend on how their coach use them and how their teammates take advantage of their ability on the pitch . This is where we can talk about Fabregas . Wenger knew how to use him and he made the team aware of his ability . Fabregas become the focal point of Arsenal and terrorised many teams for his vision and killer passes . That is what made Barca sniffed around Arsenal for his signature and created the DNA myth just to have him back . But unfortunately Cesc was naive to accept and neither the Barca players nor their coach didn't know how to use him . They made him an ordinary player and shattered his confidence .
But if Fabregas can recover his confidence and be used efficiently he can still become a wonderful central midfielder .
No, Barcelona knew how to use him. They put him in those positions to get the best out of him, but they ended up throwing him aside because they have better players in those positions. They played Cesc centrally and moved Messi, out wide ffs. They did this because Cesc is not a central midfielder. Arsene realized that too, hence why he was played at the #10 while he was in Arsenal.


I still don’t agree with this argument about Cesc not fitting in. It’s like saying we shouldn’t go for Sanchez because we have Theo as our starting winger on the right with Ox on the bench behind him. You can adjust things slightly to see what works and if we get Sanchez we’ll have to work something out.

Ozil plays on the right for Germany because they have Gotze, Kroos and Muller. We don’t need to overload our team with central attackers like they have, but Ozil isn’t the sort of player that stays in the centre anyway. We drifts to wide positions all the time and does most of his damage in the final third whereas Fabregas can hurt you from the middle of the pitch as well as in the final third. They’re two different players. It doesn’t matter now because he’s gone to Chelsea, but I hope we get our targets in otherwise we’ve missed a trick.
Ozil plays off Mueller on the right with Goetze off Mueller on the left. Its not a wide right position at all. If you look at the heat map in today's match, he spends most of his time right off the penalty area

And Cesc doesnt fit because we dont need to spend 30 million on a position we are well stoked with world class talent in. The Theo-Sanchez analogy is poor because a)Sanchez can play across the front line b)Theo and Sanchez can play together.

If you sign Cesc, you turn Ramsey into a grunt player to accommodate Cesc being indiscipline in the middle.


Very naive. He went from being the central figure at Arsenal to another one of the crowd to fit in around the established team leaders at Barca. On top of that the whole signing was drowned in politics and the usual Barca circus, every year they compete with Madrid in the same old farce. Neymar will be the next player destroyed by this. Although maybe not, because as we saw with the national team, it's time for Barca to move on and build something new. Doubt they'll learn any lessons about the way they conduct themselves in the transfer market though. Fabregas was such an easy win for us. Big shame, and a scandal if we aren't planning to bring in some serious quality this transfer window. The only redeeming factor is there's a strong chance Maureen won't have a clue how to use Fabregas either. The intensely negative shit going on in chavland won't suit Fabregas at all.
If you really believe Cesc got pushed out for politics, the Barca circus, and whatever other nonsense then you are naive. He just wasnt good enough for them. And Maureen will soon figure out that he bought a souped up Mata.

If we didnt have Ozil, I would be fine with signing back Cesc. Ozil is a better player, so we dont need him. If we had an unlimited budget, I would also sign Cesc. Unfortunately Arsenal does not and has other needs.



I would have loved to have Cesc back but the reality is that as good a passer and midfield anchor as he is, Ramsey is a MATCH WINNER for us, he won us so many games on his own last season where as Cesc isnt that kind of player.
as a CM, Ramsey>Cesc.

Its not even up for debate anymore.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Ramsey and Ozil have done more for Arsenal than Cesc ever did. We have a trophy to our name and they don't f*ck off to formula 1 when the teams in the heat of battle.

However, Cesc is still a wonderful player and would have added brilliant depth to our squad.

[Power n Glory]

Ozil plays off Mueller on the right with Goetze off Mueller on the left. Its not a wide right position at all. If you look at the heat map in today's match, he spends most of his time right off the penalty area

And Cesc doesnt fit because we dont need to spend 30 million on a position we are well stoked with world class talent in. The Theo-Sanchez analogy is poor because a)Sanchez can play across the front line b)Theo and Sanchez can play together.

If you sign Cesc, you turn Ramsey into a grunt player to accommodate Cesc being indiscipline in the middle.

Ozil’s just as undisciplined in his movement but that hasn’t hampered Ramsey. His movement is unorthodox and he floats away from the centre when playing for us, but that doesn’t reduce Ramsey to a grunt player sweeping up after him. I disagree with that point. It’s not impossible for them all to play together. Either way, he’s gone to another club and we need a more influential player in the midfield. In the final third we can make things happen but we can struggle to get a foothold in the game when passing from the back. If we’re not going for another CM we need to do better in the DM position.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Khedira looked decent when he came on last night.

He is also fat.

[Syn]

Khedira looked decent when he came on last night.

He is also fat.

true. Unsure what to make of him. He's available if Wenger wants him.

[I am invisible]

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to make of Fat Sami either? To be fair, he looks energetic enough for a big lad, and he's a pretty good ball-winner, but every time I see him play he's always charging about all over the pitch, with someone else staying back, and I'm not sure if that would work for us or not? I suppose if we're playing 4231, then you could get away with having a couple of B2B midfielders who take it turns to go forward and mop up, but I'm not really sure if his output in the final third is good enough for that kind of role? Could he play more of a disciplined holding role if we needed him to, or is it just not in his nature to stay put?

[Power n Glory]

Ramsey and Ozil have done more for Arsenal than Cesc ever did. We have a trophy to our name and they don't f*ck off to formula 1 when the teams in the heat of battle.

However, Cesc is still a wonderful player and would have added brilliant depth to our squad.

All three players have won the FA Cup so that's not entirely true. But I hope we push on achieve more from here on out.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

FA cup 2005 was more down to the invincibles than Cesc.

When they fucked off Cesc done nothing for us all those years.

Ozil and Ramsey come in and win us a trophy.

[Syn]

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to make of Fat Sami either? To be fair, he looks energetic enough for a big lad, and he's a pretty good ball-winner, but every time I see him play he's always charging about all over the pitch, with someone else staying back, and I'm not sure if that would work for us or not? I suppose if we're playing 4231, then you could get away with having a couple of B2B midfielders who take it turns to go forward and mop up, but I'm not really sure if his output in the final third is good enough for that kind of role? Could he play more of a disciplined holding role if we needed him to, or is it just not in his nature to stay put?

Maybe fantasy football points aren't his thing but every time I've seen him he is good when he attacks. He's another one of the Germans who knows the score - isn't wasteful and picks the right option 9 times out of 10. I'm guessing his fitness is the biggest issue. We need someone who is going to play 32+ league games, missing only a few games for suspension or rest, and he had a big injury last season.

Might be some value in playing 2 box-to-box midfielders. You'd think Ramsey and Khedira are clever and disciplined enough to make it work. But Ramsey in a 'freer' role has already been shown to be a winning formula, would prefer to keep that going.

[Power n Glory]

FA cup 2005 was more down to the invincibles than Cesc.

When they fucked off Cesc done nothing for us all those years.

Ozil and Ramsey come in and win us a trophy.

True, but it’s still a trophy and it was against Man Utd. We finally broke the trophy draught but it was against Hull and we struggled. It’s pretty even if you ask me. Also, if we’d have dropped out of the top 4 during those years, I don’t think we’d be seeing the sort of sponsorship deals that now allows us to bring in players like Ozil.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

2006: Cesc = nothing
2007: Cesc = nothing
2008: Cesc = nothing
2009: Cesc = nothing
2010: Cesc = nothing

2013 Ozil comes in and Ramsey goes into beast mode

2013: Ozil + Ramsey = trophy drought ends

No contest tbh

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to make of Fat Sami either? To be fair, he looks energetic enough for a big lad, and he's a pretty good ball-winner, but every time I see him play he's always charging about all over the pitch, with someone else staying back, and I'm not sure if that would work for us or not? I suppose if we're playing 4231, then you could get away with having a couple of B2B midfielders who take it turns to go forward and mop up, but I'm not really sure if his output in the final third is good enough for that kind of role? Could he play more of a disciplined holding role if we needed him to, or is it just not in his nature to stay put?

That could probably be said of Pogba too perhaps....and there seem to be little reservation about him.

[mastermind84]

Ramsey and Ozil have done more for Arsenal than Cesc ever did. We have a trophy to our name and they don't f*ck off to formula 1 when the teams in the heat of battle.

However, Cesc is still a wonderful player and would have added brilliant depth to our squad.
powerful


Ozil’s just as undisciplined in his movement but that hasn’t hampered Ramsey. His movement is unorthodox and he floats away from the centre when playing for us, but that doesn’t reduce Ramsey to a grunt player sweeping up after him. I disagree with that point. It’s not impossible for them all to play together. Either way, he’s gone to another club and we need a more influential player in the midfield. In the final third we can make things happen but we can struggle to get a foothold in the game when passing from the back. If we’re not going for another CM we need to do better in the DM position.

right, Ozil is undisciplined in his defending hence why he plays higher up the pitch. Ozil>Cesc as well.

And the point I was making about Ramsey's role is when you try to fit all 3 into the team, which is what some of you desired.


Buy William Carvalho, and none of you will ever talk about Cesc again.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

So many comments on here about Cesc that I disagree with, I don't know where to begin.

[Power n Glory]

2006: Cesc = nothing
2007: Cesc = nothing
2008: Cesc = nothing
2009: Cesc = nothing
2010: Cesc = nothing

2013 Ozil comes in and Ramsey goes into beast mode

2013: Ozil + Ramsey = trophy drought ends

No contest tbh

Yes, in the years Wenger would dismiss the domestic cups and bench key players when we're up against a strong squad like when he benched an on form Arshavin when up against Utd.

[I am invisible]

That could probably be said of Pogba too perhaps....and there seem to be little reservation about him.
Not to quite in the same way - Pogba rlooks like more of a Vieira type midfielder, he'll win the ball from a central / deeper area (i.e. where you'd want him to be), and then drive forward from there, whereas Khedira seems like more of a (large) midfield terrier, who will go and hunt the ball down, wherever it happens to be, even if it means pressing and hassling the opposition fullbacks at the other end of the pitch. Or, to put it another way, Pogba will push forward once he has the ball and it's his turn to attack; Khedira quite often pushes forward when the opposition has the ball and he's defending.

None of which is to say that Khedira is a shite player and a liability - you quite often see midfield terriers paired with a more disciplined holding midfielder to good effect - I'm just not convinced that playing that way would represent the best use of our options? I'm assuming Ramsey and Ozil are going to be amongst the first names on the team sheet most weeks (whether that's some variation of 433 or 4231), so that only really leaves us with one slot left for a defensive midfielder, and I think that player would need to be quite positionally disciplined in order to let those other two do their thing? Could Khedira do that job if we asked him to (genuine question - I honestly haven't followed his career closely enough to be able to say)?

[Power n Glory]

powerful



right, Ozil is undisciplined in his defending hence why he plays higher up the pitch. Ozil>Cesc as well.

And the point I was making about Ramsey's role is when you try to fit all 3 into the team, which is what some of you desired.


Buy William Carvalho, and none of you will ever talk about Cesc again.

Yes, Ozil can be undisciplined in his defending but also in his movement when attacking. Well, unorthodox as I said before. He doesn’t need a central role to flourish and seems comfortable playing wide and drifting in field. He does most of his damage in the final third and If feel that’s the same with Ramsey with his late runs into the box. But with both players pushing so far forward, it frustrates me to see how we can struggle to pass the ball out from the back with nobody thinking to come back deeper and make themselves available for the pass. With Arteta/Flamini holding, we could have played Cesc as a CM, Ramsey just ahead and shifted Ozil to a wide position.

That’s obviously not going to happen now but I still feel we lack a deep laying central midfield player that’s the glue between attack and defence. We can still look disjointed as seen against Hull when teams press hard. But there is more than one way to skin a cat which is why I’m hoping Wenger signs a DM that can keep the play flowing for us.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yes, in the years Wenger would dismiss the domestic cups and bench key players when we're up against a strong squad like when he benched an on form Arshavin when up against Utd.

We'd go out and thrash teams 6-0 in the cups, what the fuck you on about :lol:

Now we barely scrape past them.

Ozil hardly has a lavish team right now. No Walcott, no pace, no width, central midfielders out on the wing, no attacking full backs to aim for. Project youth might have been a failure but at least central midfielders had options and players in different angles to pass the ball to. Technically it was a brilliant team but mentally it was all wrong. This team is the opposite. It's mentally tougher but technically piss poor IMO, our football is pretty crap and dull to watch. Ozil has fuck all options. If he was an AM in the project youth team he'd have a field day with all those runners and options. And more importantly, Cesc had a beastly Adebayor ahead of him, Ozil has Giroud.

As I said, no contest tbh.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Not to quite in the same way - Pogba rlooks like more of a Vieira type midfielder, he'll win the ball from a central / deeper area (i.e. where you'd want him to be), and then drive forward from there, whereas Khedira seems like more of a (large) midfield terrier, who will go and hunt the ball down, wherever it happens to be, even if it means pressing and hassling the opposition fullbacks at the other end of the pitch. Or, to put it another way, Pogba will push forward once he has the ball and it's his turn to attack; Khedira quite often pushes forward when the opposition has the ball and he's defending.

None of which is to say that Khedira is a shite player and a liability - you quite often see midfield terriers paired with a more disciplined holding midfielder to good effect - I'm just not convinced that playing that way would represent the best use of our options? I'm assuming Ramsey and Ozil are going to be amongst the first names on the team sheet most weeks (whether that's some variation of 433 or 4231), so that only really leaves us with one slot left for a defensive midfielder, and I think that player would need to be quite positionally disciplined in order to let those other two do their thing? Could Khedira do that job if we asked him to (genuine question - I honestly haven't followed his career closely enough to be able to say)?

The point I was making is that neither really seem the sit and hold type, which with the mix of personnel we have seems to be (ostensibly at least) the type of player we need.

I think the pair of them are astute enough to fine tune their roles dependent on the team and managers direction but I can't say I hold much hope in signing either...... certainly not Pogba.

[Power n Glory]

We'd go out and thrash teams 6-0 in the cups, what the fuck you on about :lol:

Now we barely scrape past them.

Ozil hardly has a lavish team right now. No Walcott, no pace, no width, central midfielders out on the wing, no attacking full backs to aim for. Project youth might have been a failure but at least central midfielders had options and players in different angles to pass the ball to. Technically it was a brilliant team but mentally it was all wrong. This team is the opposite. It's mentally tougher but technically piss poor IMO, our football is pretty crap and dull to watch. Ozil has fuck all options. If he was an AM in the project youth team he'd have a field day with all those runners and options. And more importantly, Cesc had a beastly Adebayor ahead of him, Ozil has Giroud.

As I said, no contest tbh.

You don’t remember when Wenger benched Arshavin for an FA Cup semi final tie? I think that was when we started getting the 4th is a trophy comments and before that pundits were on us for fielding weaker sides in cup games.

It doesn’t matter anyway. You say no contest but all three players have won the exact same thing in their Arsenal careers. It’s a pretty pointless debate.

[AFC Leveller]

Pogba would be out of our league in terms of transfer fee and wages, plus he isnt a holding/DCM and would be more of a Ramsey type of player rather than a defensive one.

Khedira is just ugly, his style of play is ugly, his running is ugly and as a footballer he is really annoying.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you really believe Cesc got pushed out for politics, the Barca circus, and whatever other nonsense then you are naive.

Good point. Apart from the fact that's not what I said.

[Niall_Quinn]

We shouldn't be bothered about Pogba's fee. After 10 years of spending fuck all net, alleviated by the Ozil transfer which was itself offset by outgoings, £60mill should be well within our reach. All we have to do is ask ourselves, would a young Patrick Vieira improve the current team? The answer is obviously yes, so we should sign Pogba. Not only because we need him and have needed a player like him for a decade, but also because it's about time we went head to head with our rivals and won a transfer war for a top tier player.

Of course maybe Pogba doesn't view us as top tier and wouldn't want to come here. That's where Wenger would have to earn his pay.

[mastermind84]

the only CM we should be targeting is William Carvalho.

[Niall_Quinn]

the only CM we should be targeting is William Carvalho.

Didn't know that. Good to know.

[fakeyank]

We shouldn't be bothered about Pogba's fee. After 10 years of spending fuck all net, alleviated by the Ozil transfer which was itself offset by outgoings, £60mill should be well within our reach. All we have to do is ask ourselves, would a young Patrick Vieira improve the current team? The answer is obviously yes, so we should sign Pogba. Not only because we need him and have needed a player like him for a decade, but also because it's about time we went head to head with our rivals and won a transfer war for a top tier player.

Of course maybe Pogba doesn't view us as top tier and wouldn't want to come here. That's where Wenger would have to earn his pay.

We have as well Diaby who can play like Vieira. He is like a new signing..

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You don’t remember when Wenger benched Arshavin for an FA Cup semi final tie? I think that was when we started getting the 4th is a trophy comments and before that pundits were on us for fielding weaker sides in cup games.

It doesn’t matter anyway. You say no contest but all three players have won the exact same thing in their Arsenal careers. It’s a pretty pointless debate.

I remember that but I also remember a technically brilliant team that flourished with their passing range and ability. That 07/08 team was a beast. This team is nowhere near that standard technically. In other words, Cesc was in the technically superior team and still helped us win fuck all. Ozil and Ramsey are in a worse team yet ended our trophy drought.

No. Contest.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Are you suggesting that Pogba is worth 60 million to us NQ?...or do you mean our net outlay this summer?

[Niall_Quinn]

Are you suggesting that Pogba is worth 60 million to us NQ?...or do you mean our net outlay this summer?

60mill is what he's going to cost. He'd be worth a lot more to us than that though. First player I have seen that can properly impersonate Paddy. Big, powerful, but a genuine ball player who can attack as well as he defends. And still developing. That's how much a Vieira will cost you these days. Our net outlay will hopefully be the full £100mill we have on hand. It won't be, which is why hope is such an awful thing.

[selassie]

60mill is what he's going to cost. He'd be worth a lot more to us than that though. First player I have seen that can properly impersonate Paddy. Big, powerful, but a genuine ball player who can attack as well as he defends. And still developing. That's how much a Vieira will cost you these days. Our net outlay will hopefully be the full £100mill we have on hand. It won't be, which is why hope is such an awful thing.

:gp:

Yep I really like him too, looks the REAL DEAL.

[Power n Glory]

We have as well Diaby who can play like Vieira. He is like a new signing..

:gp:

[I am invisible]

We have as well Diaby who can play like Vieira. He is like a new signing..
Ugh, I forgot he was "back" again...

[AFC Leveller]

Why do we have a thread of a Chelsea player who will have happy times with Terry and Mourinho and probably beat us/score against us next season?

[Mr. Lahey]

60mill is what he's going to cost. He'd be worth a lot more to us than that though. First player I have seen that can properly impersonate Paddy. Big, powerful, but a genuine ball player who can attack as well as he defends. And still developing. That's how much a Vieira will cost you these days. Our net outlay will hopefully be the full £100mill we have on hand. It won't be, which is why hope is such an awful thing.

yup im right there with ya - funny thing is that he IS available. Juve have said a couple times over the last year that if the right bid came in for him, they are willing to depart. this is exactly the type of player we need as you mentioned earlier we have been missing for the last decade.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Yes you are right Mr Lahey, they have said that and Juve won't hold out for as much as 60 million. They are resigned to the fact they will lose him in the not too distant future imo.

They could win their league even if they replaced Pogba with Joey Barton. I don't think Pogba is worth 60 million or that he is near to Vieira's class, but he could get there, who knows.....

I actually think with the emergence of Ramsey, a simple burly sit and hold / anchorman, distribute the ball nicely, will do. Someone like a Gilberto, who I would say Gustavo is closest to or someone like Mavuba. Plenty of others out there though. Our approach to the big games needs to be honed too, lest we be losing by big margins in big games as a matter of course.