Vesta

[Coney]

Probe approaching the asteroid Vesta ready to orbit soon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13754423

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53389000/jpg/_53389112_53389111.jpg

Looks a wierd shape - should get some good pics soon.

[Letters]

Mmm...space.

Btw, did you want help with your avatar? It seems to have come out the wrong way round.

[Coney]

WWTL@WHL);9030]Mmm...space[/email].

Btw, did you want help with your avatar? It seems to have come out the wrong way round.

No thanks - I am going to be old fashioned and have north at the top. :)

[WMUG]

My great grandma's name was vesta. That is all.

[Letters]

No thanks - I am going to be old fashioned and have north at the top. :)

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/images/PaleBlueDot.jpg

Is this the right way round?

:)

[Marc Overmars]

The Blue Marble :bow:

[Coney]

WWTL@WHL);9051]http://www.humanistsofutah.org/images/PaleBlueDot.jpg[/email]

Is this the right way round?

:)

If that is the Voyager picture that Carl Sagan got them to take, then it looks right to me. ;)

[the easter bunnie]

I like Vesta chow mein. But not Vesta beef curry because it burns my tongue. The curly things are best.

[Coney]

I like Vesta chow mein. But not Vesta beef curry because it burns my tongue. The curly things are best.

They still make that shit? I used to do it in the early 1970s as a student who could not cook. Once I'd learned to cook - and once I'd tried the real thing - I stopped eating it. Still, it will keep you alive till you've got round to cooking.

I also used to have a standard evening meal of a Fray Bentos steak and kidney pie and a tin of beans. Seemed to keep me going and gave me a good thirst which I and my mate would solve by going to the pubs on the Holloway Road to down a few pints of Guiness. (The Guiness was good due to the high Irish contingent in the area so it was fresh and tastey. I find it harder to get a decent Guiness these days because most pubs only sell it at a low rate so it is often stale and sour - all that bloody poncy filtered yuppie pseudo-beer and pseudo-lager crap being sold is to blame for that.)

[the easter bunnie]

I am not allowed to use can openers. and pubs are full of scary people who shout loudly and sometimes fight. Irish people sing sad songs and dance a lot but not very well. Guiness makes your number 2 turn black,

[LDG]

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn117/luvmegooners/earth_rise.jpg

[Coney]

I am not allowed to use can openers. and pubs are full of scary people who shout loudly and sometimes fight. Irish people sing sad songs and dance a lot but not very well. Guiness makes your number 2 turn black,

A goth drink then?

[Coney]

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn117/luvmegooners/earth_rise.jpg

:crying:

Got to say this, though. When did you last see a half-moon where the line between light and dark did not go top to bottom? :geek:

[LDG]

:crying:

Got to say this, though. When did you last see a half-moon where the line between light and dark did not go top to bottom? :geek:

When she was led on her side. Tbh.

[Coney]

:)

[Coney]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13779506

Lunar eclipse this evening, for those who care.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53425000/jpg/_53425436_53425435.jpg

[LDG]

It's a bit cloudy out.

[PGFC]

Just hope the cloud breaks, love a blood moon me :)

[hymppi]

it's not that cloudy here, but the moons eclipse is to be seen at 1 am. i have to get up really early. i'm going to miss it!!!

[Coney]

it's not that cloudy here, but the moons eclipse is to be seen at 1 am. i have to get up really early. i'm going to miss it!!!

1 am? Surely not getting up early - try staying up late. Have a beer. Or two. Chill out man.

[Coney]

Google have a neat Lunar Eclipse them on their main page. :)

[Marc Overmars]

Our little country as seen from space. :bow:

ps this should be renamed the official Astronomy thread tbh.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.htmlhttp://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01328/UK_01_1328265a.jpg

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.htmlhttp://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.html

[WMUG]

London :bow:

[Letters]

In between Ireland and England you can see the Isle of Man.
Where I am now :wave:

[Coney]

London :bow:

Dursley. No light polution so good for astronomy. :bow:

[Hump]

that's lucky cos there's fuck all else to do in rural Gloucestershire.

[Master Splinter]

I can make out Jesus and Bendtner on those markings.

[Flavs]

Our little country as seen from space. :bow:

ps this should be renamed the official Astronomy thread tbh.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.htmlhttp://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01328/UK_01_1328265a.jpg

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.htmlhttp://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640369/UK-is-seen-in-a-whole-new-light-lit-up-after-dark-in-this-amazing-snap-from-space.html

Thats pretty cool tbf, ypu can see how close Leeds and Bradford are on that, although bradford is obviously darker...

[Nozza!]

Thats pretty cool tbf, ypu can see how close Leeds and Bradford are on that, although bradford is obviously darker...

Oi, mush, I'm guessing that's because there are more cars on fire in Leeds?...

[Marc Overmars]

Oi, mush, I'm guessing that's because there are more cars on fire in Leeds?...
Set alight by the brownies of Bradford. Allegedly.

[Flavs]

Oi, mush, I'm guessing that's because there are more cars on fire in Leeds?...

Yeah like we can even afford cars in Leeds

[Nozza!]

Oi, mush, I know that, but don't tell me you've stopped torching the cars of the Bradford curry houses when they fuck up your take away order?...

[Alan B'stard]

Set alight by the brownies of Bradford. Allegedly.

http://http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/173276182_631c6a7647_z.jpg

[Flavs]

Oi, mush, I know that, but don't tell me you've stopped torching the cars of the Bradford curry houses when they fuck up your take away order?...

We have lots of Polish run curry houses in Leeds now so no need :good:

[Hump]

I'll have a Chicken Szczesny, Lamb Poznan and a side of Walesa rice

[Cripps_orig]

ALIEN life will be discovered by humans within twenty years, a top Russian astronomer has predicted.

The director of the renowned Russian Academy Of Sciences' Applied Astronomy Institute insists contact with extra-terrestrials will be made in the next two decades.
Andrei Finkelstein said: "The genesis of life is as inevitable as the formation of atoms.
"Life exists on other planets and we will find it within 20 years."
Since ten per cent of known planets circling suns in the galaxy resemble Earth, Finkelstein said it would be inevitable that life could be found there.
At an international forum dedicated to the search for spacemen he also said that aliens would most likely resemble humans, with two arms, two legs and a head.
But, "they may have different colour skin," he added.
Finkelstein went on to say that he believes those looking for evidence of extra-terrestrial life have been doing it the wrong way.
Most scientists searching have been scouring the galaxy for radio signals sent out by alien civilisations.
He insists - it should be us who should be making the contact with them and not the other way round.
He added: "The whole time we have been searching for extra-terrestrial civilisations, we have mainly been waiting for messages from space and not the other way."
In March a Nasa scientist sparked controversy after claiming to have found tiny fossils of alien bugs inside meteorites discovered on Earth.


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3664821/ET-will-be-found-in-20-years.html#ixzz1QaN8Olkq

Cant wait

[Nozza!]

Oi, geezer, if they concetrate their effort on Jaywick it'll be a couple of days not 20 years...

[Marc Overmars]

I doubt there is complex life out there but there's every chance there could be microorganisms and maybe even small insects on distant planets.

:sciencegeek:

[Coney]

I doubt there is complex life out there but there's every chance there could be microorganisms and maybe even small insects on distant planets.

:sciencegeek:

No reason why there should not be complex life on lots of planets throughout the universe. The chances this planet is the only one with complex life can be considered less than negligible now we know the general principles of how it works.

As far as finding extra-terrestrial life is concerned, my money is on Europa as the first place we will detect it.

[Master Splinter]

The complex life on other planets would probably manifest itself in ways that our relatively puny minds could not comprehend.

But I hope they're like Klaatu, because he was a Yorkshireman.

[Marc Overmars]

I just find it hard to believe there could be civilisations out there going about their lives just as we do.

[Master Splinter]

I just find it hard to believe there could be civilisations out there going about their lives just as we do.

Well it's unlikely they would function like us Earth people.

It's likely there's billions of other lifeforms out there though.

[Letters]

No reason why there should not be complex life on lots of planets throughout the universe. The chances this planet is the only one with complex life can be considered less than negligible now we know the general principles of how it works.

As far as finding extra-terrestrial life is concerned, my money is on Europa as the first place we will detect it.

It all depends how probable complex life is.
I'd say very, very unlikely.
But then there are very very many galaxies with very very many stars in.

It's impossible to know because there's no way of accurately calculating the probability of life (let alone complex life) arising.
You can do back of an envelope calculations but they involve so much guesswork (educated guesswork maybe, but it would be disingenuous to claim that the calculations can be in any way accurate).

Life could be prevelant throughout the universe, it could be in a few places in the universe or it could be that not only are we unique but it's incredible that we're here. It's just impossible to say for sure.

What is more certain, IMO, is we'll never know. 'Cos we're all so far apart and if Einstein was right it would take too long to travel to one another to make contact.

[GP]

At least until Zefram Cochrane does his thing.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zefram_Cochrane)

[Marc Overmars]

There is frozen water on certain planets, well, moons. So with that in mind I think at least the probability of microorganisms is quite high. Of course it's going to take a long time before we have the technology to confirm it and other theories though.

[GP]

The aliens landed in Roswell
And the government hid them so no one could see
It happens every week on the X-Files
So why can't it happen to me

[Injury Time]

The aliens landed in Roswell
And the government hid them so no one could see
It happens every week on the X-Files
So why can't it happen to me
Because they probed enough of you rednecks?

[Coney]

I just find it hard to believe there could be civilisations out there going about their lives just as we do.

I don't see why. If life can start and develop here, why not on any number of planets? There are something like 100,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy and something like 100,000,000,000 galaxies in the observed universe so with something of the order of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, then the number of planets is incredibly high. The idea that a large number do not have life seems incredibly improbable. Whether a high or low proportion, it must surely mean that there are a considerable number of worlds with life.

[Letters]

I don't see why. If life can start and develop here, why not on any number of planets? There are something like 100,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy and something like 100,000,000,000 galaxies in the observed universe so with something of the order of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, then the number of planets is incredibly high. The idea that a large number do not have life seems incredibly improbable. Whether a high or low proportion, it must surely mean that there are a considerable number of worlds with life.

Does it? As I said above, that depends entirely on the probability of life arising.
If the probability is, say, one in a million then yes, life will be prevelant throughout the universe.
If the probability is far lower - so low that it's highly improbable that life has arisen anywhere - then it isn't.

Problem is there is no way of calculating that probability with any accuracy.

[LDG]

Does it? As I said above, that depends entirely on the probability of life arising.
If the probability is, say, one in a million then yes, life will be prevelant throughout the universe.
If the probability is far lower - so low that it's highly improbable that life has arisen anywhere - then it isn't.

Problem is there is no way of calculating that probability with any accuracy.

God works in mysterious ways :shrug:

[Coney]

Does it? As I said above, that depends entirely on the probability of life arising.
If the probability is, say, one in a million then yes, life will be prevelant throughout the universe.
If the probability is far lower - so low that it's highly improbable that life has arisen anywhere - then it isn't.

Problem is there is no way of calculating that probability with any accuracy.


So you missed the "Whether a high or low proportion" bit then? I suppose you just think that some magic bloke create life here and that's it. Alternative is that 'He' created life in other places too in which case again, there will be life on other planets and the chances are surely that some would have evolved. Evolution ftw. With our present understanding of how life and evolution broadly work, the only possibility that this planet alone in the universe has developed complex and intelligent live would be if a supreme being was the only creator of life and that is clearly ridiculous.

[Letters]

With our present understanding of how life and evolution broadly work, the only possibility that this planet alone in the universe has developed complex and intelligent live would be if a supreme being was the only creator of life

Nope.

The other possibility is that the probability of life arising spontaneously and then evolving into complex beings is so low that not only is this the only planet with life but our own existence is highly improbable.

As I keep saying, no-one knows what that probability is, you can make a stab at calculating it but any such calculation is based on far too much guesswork and estmation to make any sensible claims for accuracy.

[IBK]

I tend to fall on the side of those who believe that there must almost certainly be/have been/will be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe - by dint of its near infinite size. This has to be contrasted with the likelihood of us ever encountering it - which I think is equally remote. The factor most often ignored in these debates is time. The universe is almost 14 billion years old (if it is taken that time is linear - which itself is open to debate). The earth is thought to be about a 3rd of that, and we have all heard of the 24h earth clock, in which homo sapiens evolved at 23:59:56.

Put in this context, the chances of intelligent life coinciding not only near enough on a cosmic scale (our fastest spacecraft ever to travel in space - using gravitational assists - would have taken 19,000 years to reach the nearest star to earth other than the sun, and it is pretty much universally accepted that in theory complex life could be kept in suspended animation for only a few hundred years), and having developed within the same tiny band of time (the argument is that, like many civilisations on earth - complex life would be likely to reach tipping point relatively quickly, either through self-destruction; running out of resources or changes in the solar phase of their solar systems) is extremely small.

[Coney]

Nope.

The other possibility is that the probability of life arising spontaneously and then evolving into complex beings is so low that not only is this the only planet with life but our own existence is highly improbable.

As I keep saying, no-one knows what that probability is, you can make a stab at calculating it but any such calculation is based on far too much guesswork and estmation to make any sensible claims for accuracy.

You are right about accuracy being impossible atm, but that does not mean there are not a large number of intelligent life-supporting planets. We might not know if there are hundreds of billions or merely (say) tens of millions. However, it is so unlikely that it would be just the one. With 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, and most stars we have been able to check on in our neighbourhood having planetary systems, then there is massive scope for life supporting planets.

To repeat again so it goes in, you are right that we cannot accurately estimate how many, but our present knowledge of life, the universe and everything indicates that there is a decent chance of life starting and even in the worst estimates we can imagine of the probability of a given star having life on one of its' planets, multiply by 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and I think you will find the answer is a lot more than 1.

[Letters]

You are right about accuracy being impossible atm, but that does not mean there are not a large number of intelligent life-supporting planets. We might not know if there are hundreds of billions or merely (say) tens of millions. However, it is so unlikely that it would be just the one. With 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, and most stars we have been able to check on in our neighbourhood having planetary systems, then there is massive scope for life supporting planets.

Agreed, if by 'life supporting' you mean planets in the Goldilocks zone and thus could potentially support life. The number is unknown but I'd agree we can have a decent stab at estimating that number.


To repeat again so it goes in

Why do you always feel the need to patronise and condescend?


you are right that we cannot accurately estimate how many, but our present knowledge of life, the universe and everything indicates that there is a decent chance of life starting

Does it? Define decent? What is the probability of life starting and developing into complex beings?
Any estimate of that probability has to be based on at best educated guesswork.


and even in the worst estimates we can imagine of the probability of a given star having life on one of its' planets, multiply by 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and I think you will find the answer is a lot more than 1.

That rather depends on whether the probability is greater than 0.00000000000000000000001.
Is it? I don't know.
Nor do you.
Nor does anyone.

The number of civilizations out there is, roughly:

N x p1 x p2

where N is the number of viable planets.
p1 is the probability of life arising
p2 is the probability of life developing into complex beings, complex enough to start a civilization.

N can be estimated with some vague accuracy as we can observe the universe and thus get a feel for it’s size and the number of viable exoplanets.

p1 and p2, I'd suggest, cannot be estimated with any reasonable accuracy and thus: we just don't know.

[LDG]

David Bowie was posing this question long before any of you.

[Marc Overmars]

Fascinating stuff tbh. Beats Arsenal transfer window shit hands down.

[Coney]

Agreed, if by 'life supporting' you mean planets in the Goldilocks zone and thus could potentially support life. The number is unknown but I'd agree we can have a decent stab at estimating that number.



Why do you always feel the need to patronise and condescend?



Does it? Define decent? What is the probability of life starting and developing into complex beings?
Any estimate of that probability has to be based on at best educated guesswork.



That rather depends on whether the probability is greater than 0.00000000000000000000001.
Is it? I don't know.
Nor do you.
Nor does anyone.

The number of civilizations out there is, roughly:

N x p1 x p2

where N is the number of viable planets.
p1 is the probability of life arising
p2 is the probability of life developing into complex beings, complex enough to start a civilization.

N can be estimated with some vague accuracy as we can observe the universe and thus get a feel for it’s size and the number of viable exoplanets.

p1 and p2, I'd suggest, cannot be estimated with any reasonable accuracy and thus: we just don't know.

Because you keep missing the point - that there are many. I don't dispute we don't have an idea exactly how many but we know how many. I was coming to the assumption that you were just being obtuse in ignoring this as it is one of your habits with people.

[Letters]

Because you keep missing the point - that there are many. I don't dispute we don't have an idea exactly how many but we know how many. I was coming to the assumption that you were just being obtuse in ignoring this as it is one of your habits with people.

No. You keep missing the point.

Yes, it seems there are many planets which could potentially support life. I have agreed with you about that several times.
But what we don't know is the probability of life arising on one of them and then developing into beings complex enough to form a civilization.

Any attempt a calculation of that probability is full of estimates and educated guesswork.

So, again, we don't know whether intelligent life is common (relatively speaking) throughout the universe, very rare, or whether we're not only unique but our own existence is highly improbable.

Again: N x p1 x p2.

ALL of those values are unknown and only N can be estimated with anything like reasonable accuracy.

[Coney]

No. You keep missing the point.

Yes, it seems there are many planets which could potentially support life. I have agreed with you about that several times.
But what we don't know is the probability of life arising on one of them and then developing into beings complex enough to form a civilization.

Any attempt a calculation of that probability is full of estimates and educated guesswork.

So, again, we don't know whether intelligent life is common (relatively speaking) throughout the universe, very rare, or whether we're not only unique but our own existence is highly improbable.

Again: N x p1 x p2.

ALL of those values are unknown and only N can be estimated with anything like reasonable accuracy.

For the last time, and that's it on this argument for me....


No reason why there should not be complex life on lots of planets throughout the universe. The chances this planet is the only one with complex life can be considered less than negligible now we know the general principles of how it works.

I did not specify numbers of planets or proportions etc. so what you are saying is not relevant unless you are going to argue that life is so incredibly improbable that we are unique in the entire universe.

/ISSUE.

[Injury Time]

But we can all agree that Mork & Mindy was a real documentary of alien life on Earth though right :console:

[Coney]

But we can all agree that Mork & Mindy was a real documentary of alien life on Earth though right :console:

Never watched it, tbh. But my dustbin lid is clear evidence of extra terrestrial intelligence - that and the soup that some dragon left on one of his visits.

[Letters]

I did not specify numbers of planets or proportions etc.

No, you didn't. But I did. And in doing so showed that unless we know the probabilities of life
a) arising and
b) developing into a civilization

then we can't say with any certainty whether life is prevelant in the universe. You say we 'know the general principles' but we don't know anywhere near enough to calculate probabilities without huge slices of guesstimation. If you disagree with that then we have a basis for debate. If you don't then I can't see you can come to any different conclusion to me.


so what you are saying is not relevant unless you are going to argue that life is so incredibly improbable that we are unique in the entire universe.

I'm arguing that we don't know how improbable it is. 'Cos we don't...

Your argument is, basically, "there are loads of planets so yeah, there must be life out there".
Which is as silly as saying "if I buy 100 Lottery tickets then I'm bound to win a few million 'cos that's loads of tickets".
Well yes, it is quite a lot of tickets but when you multiply it by the probability of you winning big it's still going to almost certainly leave you disappointed.

N x p1 x p2.

N I think we have a reasonable ability to have a stab at. p1 and p2 we don't. Ergo, we just don't know.
If you can provide values for p1 and p2 which you can show are in any way accurate then let's have them.


Interesting how certain you are about something you can't prove by the way... :)

[IBK]

How to make an interesting thread incredibly tedious. :clap:

[Coney]

How to make an interesting thread incredibly tedious. :clap:

It's OK - I've put him on ignore now. :good:

[Cripps_orig]

Can we do that with mods?

[Coney]

Can we do that with mods?

Apparently not - it didn't let me do it. We'll have to get him sacked first.

[Cripps_orig]

Apparently not - it didn't let me do it. We'll have to get him sacked first.

Impossible im afraid. Ive been trying for 5 years.

Given up now though.

If you cant beat them, join them

[Letters]

Apparently not - it didn't let me do it. We'll have to get him sacked first.

:pal:

:cool: