Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Power n Glory]

Always a mistake for footballers to get involved with politics or make any political statements, seeing as he's living in Germany you'd think he'd be awre of the issues and perhaps stay away from things like this.

Having done so he should have just dealt with the repercussions, retiring and then making comments on twitter was probably not the best move. In a way the guy at Bayern is right, we haven't seen the best of Ozil for years, I don't think he's been great in an Arsenal shirt, but that could also be due to the style of play.

Last time he was at his best was at Real, there's no doubt about his talent, but he needs to deliver more regularly and show what he can do, he'son big money for us now.

Read Ozil's statement and what he has said about the press wouldn't surprise me. It's nothing new. But not sure what to make of his actions. Whether it's brave, self centered or a deflection tactic, I haven't quite decided yet. But I can't say I feel much sympathy for him because he's been playing like shit for ages. It was only a matter of time before the German's started criticising his performances and commitment. It always leads down this path when people can't explain why talented players play like shit.

[Globalgunner]

Read Ozil's statement and what he has said about the press wouldn't surprise me. It's nothing new. But not sure what to make of his actions. Whether it's brave, self centered or a deflection tactic, I haven't quite decided yet. But I can't say I feel much sympathy for him because he's been playing like shit for ages. It was only a matter of time before the German's started criticising his performances and commitment. It always leads down this path when people can't explain why talented players play like shit.

The Bayern chap is talking shit. Most of the German players who flopped were either current or past Bayern players. This is simply defection. Muller for instance ws complete gash all tournament.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mesut-ozil-germany-retirement-bayern-12965285

Ouch. :lol:

Hoeness would know all about fraud...

[Power n Glory]

The Bayern chap is talking shit. Most of the German players who flopped were either current or past Bayern players. This is simply defection. Muller for instance ws complete gash all tournament.

Over the last 3 years you've said the same about why Ozil isn't performing for Arsenal. The argument has always been 'well, he wasn't the worst player on the pitch'. He's hardly ever the best player either.

I said a year or two ago that most of Ozil's chance creation comes from crosses and cutbacks. The Bayern guy is right about that. Germany were shit overall. It's wrong for him to just single out Ozil, but Ozil always seems to find himself in these debates. Now it's with a totally different team that have nothing to do with Wenger or Arsenal. We'll see what he does with Unai. But I recall people saying he played well for Germany because of the quality around him. Goes to show a lot of people think he's been coasting for Germany as well.

Any how, on a constructive note, Ozil may be best suited to playing on the wing if his best weapon is his crosses and cutbacks. He'd play games out wide for Real and when he's on his game the boy can dribble. The number 10 position doesn't really exist in football anymore. Attacking midfielders are either being pushed wide if they have great dribbling skills and can score goals (Coutinho, De Bruyne) or getting played in deeper central roles (Cazorla, Modric). I don't think Unai plays with a number 10 so will be interesting to see how he uses Ozil.

[Globalgunner]

Over the last 3 years you've said the same about why Ozil isn't performing for Arsenal. The argument has always been 'well, he wasn't the worst player on the pitch'. He's hardly ever the best player either.

I said a year or two ago that most of Ozil's chance creation comes from crosses and cutbacks. The Bayern guy is right about that. Germany were shit overall. It's wrong for him to just single out Ozil, but Ozil always seems to find himself in these debates. Now it's with a totally different team that have nothing to do with Wenger or Arsenal. We'll see what he does with Unai. But I recall people saying he played well for Germany because of the quality around him. Goes to show a lot of people think he's been coasting for Germany as well.

Any how, on a constructive note, Ozil may be best suited to playing on the wing if his best weapon is his crosses and cutbacks. He'd play games out wide for Real and when he's on his game the boy can dribble. The number 10 position doesn't really exist in football anymore. Attacking midfielders are either being pushed wide if they have great dribbling skills and can score goals (Coutinho, De Bruyne) or getting played in deeper central roles (Cazorla, Modric). I don't think Unai plays with a number 10 so will be interesting to see how he uses Ozil.

You must have been following another poster for the last 3 years. The reason Arsenal have been crap since Ozil has been here is the same reason weve been crap before Ozil came here. That reason has since left the club. Germany cannot lay all their WC troubles at Ozils door. Low is fully responsible for that shit show.

[Power n Glory]

You must have been following another poster for the last 3 years. The reason Arsenal have been crap since Ozil has been here is the same reason weve been crap before Ozil came here. That reason has since left the club. Germany cannot lay all their WC troubles at Ozils door. Low is fully responsible for that shit show.

I don't know what you're reading either if you think I said Arsenal have been shit because of Ozil. :doh: GW:rose:

[Özim]

Terrible news, Usmanov allegedly wanting to sell his share in the club, potentially that could mean Kroenke owning the whole club. What's clear is Kroenke won't invest, looking at our budget we've had about 60 odd million for Emery, some might say it's because he's a new manager (not sure I totally agree), Everton have spent 50 million on one player.

So we have a billionaire owner who basically sits there and makes money, all the others seem to invest even the guy at Everton (Usmanov could end up their and make them competitors for us).

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-billionaire-usmanov-exploring-sale-of-his-arsenal-stake-ft-says-11446839

[I am invisible]

Hoeness would know all about fraud...

:good:

[I am invisible]

Read Ozil's statement and what he has said about the press wouldn't surprise me. It's nothing new. But not sure what to make of his actions. Whether it's brave, self centered or a deflection tactic, I haven't quite decided yet. But I can't say I feel much sympathy for him because he's been playing like shit for ages. It was only a matter of time before the German's started criticising his performances and commitment. It always leads down this path when people can't explain why talented players play like shit.

Probably a little bit of all three, I suspect.

I spent half of yesterday evening listening to German football experts and former players on the radio, and the opinion seemed to be fairly unanimous that he has been scapegoated and singled out for harsher criticism than the other players (pretty much going back to before the 2014 WC), and that the DFB have made a right pig's ear of a situation that they could have easily squashed weeks ago.

From what I've read from his statement, his main gripe seems to be 1) with this guy Reinhard Grindel, who actually voted against dual-nationalities in German parliament, and is on record as saying that Islamic culture has become too ingrained in German cities (so all in all a pretty piss-poor choice for President of the DFB), and 2) the fact that he is constantly referred to as German-Turkish in the press instead of just German (or, better yet, as Mesut Özil, as his nationality really shouldn't need to be referenced at all when writing about him in the context of his national team). I think that second point is one of those drip-drip things that sounds like it should be a minor irritation at best, but that gradually has an effect without anyone really noticing that it's happening? Every time he's referred to as German-Turkish it's essentially a little reminder that he's thought of as German, but not really German, and then when the poor performances and bad results inevitably happen, it probably seems like the rest of the German players have been distanced from him and all of the undesirable labels that he's been tagged with over the years (lazy, uncommitted, etc) - labels that are traditionally regarded as distinctly unGerman.

That's how I imagine it will feel to Özil anyway. Chuck in the abuse and the threats that he and his family have been receiving on social media, the way Grindel has fanned the flames of a situation that he should have been trying to contain, and the childish, contemptuous comments of someone extremely influential like Uli Hoeness, and you can at least understand why he maybe feels justified and validated in making these claims of scapegoating and discrimination.

Having said all of that, Özil also comes across as unnecessarily defensive and completely unwilling to admit fault when it comes to 'the photo', and I really don't understand that at all? Nor do I understand why he let it drag on for so long without a response? If he'd just worded an immediate apology and mumbled something about poor judgement, then it may not have satisfied everyone, but I'm also sure it would have been quickly forgotten and written off as just another example of a footballer doing something stupid (in a long history of footballers doing bloody stupid things). Instead, he's tried to defend the indefensible, and in doing so he's given weight to the counter argument that he can't handle criticism, and that he's just playing the race / discrimination card to deflect attention away from poor performances.

For me, 'the photo', Özil's performances on the pitch, and his claims of scapegoating and discrimination are 3 distinct issues, each worthy of their own debate, but unfortunately neither side seem able (or willing) to separate them when making their arguments. For what it's worth, I think he's been unbelievably stupid with the photo, that his performances have been 'meh' for some time, and that (on some level) he is probably hoping that his claims of discrimination will deflect attention from the issue of his form. However, I also think that there probably is some merit to his claims of discrimination and scapegoating too, even if he is also using it to deflect - I don't think the two counter-accusations have to be mutually exclusive.

[SMatthews]

Lot of rumours saying Henry is about to take over as Aston Villa manager. Oh dear.

[Power n Glory]

Probably a little bit of all three, I suspect.

I spent half of yesterday evening listening to German football experts and former players on the radio, and the opinion seemed to be fairly unanimous that he has been scapegoated and singled out for harsher criticism than the other players (pretty much going back to before the 2014 WC), and that the DFB have made a right pig's ear of a situation that they could have easily squashed weeks ago.

From what I've read from his statement, his main gripe seems to be 1) with this guy Reinhard Grindel, who actually voted against dual-nationalities in German parliament, and is on record as saying that Islamic culture has become too ingrained in German cities (so all in all a pretty piss-poor choice for President of the DFB), and 2) the fact that he is constantly referred to as German-Turkish in the press instead of just German (or, better yet, as Mesut Özil, as his nationality really shouldn't need to be referenced at all when writing about him in the context of his national team). I think that second point is one of those drip-drip things that sounds like it should be a minor irritation at best, but that gradually has an effect without anyone really noticing that it's happening? Every time he's referred to as German-Turkish it's essentially a little reminder that he's thought of as German, but not really German, and then when the poor performances and bad results inevitably happen, it probably seems like the rest of the German players have been distanced from him and all of the undesirable labels that he's been tagged with over the years (lazy, uncommitted, etc) - labels that are traditionally regarded as distinctly unGerman.

That's how I imagine it will feel to Özil anyway. Chuck in the abuse and the threats that he and his family have been receiving on social media, the way Grindel has fanned the flames of a situation that he should have been trying to contain, and the childish, contemptuous comments of someone extremely influential like Uli Hoeness, and you can at least understand why he maybe feels justified and validated in making these claims of scapegoating and discrimination.

Having said all of that, Özil also comes across as unnecessarily defensive and completely unwilling to admit fault when it comes to 'the photo', and I really don't understand that at all? Nor do I understand why he let it drag on for so long without a response? If he'd just worded an immediate apology and mumbled something about poor judgement, then it may not have satisfied everyone, but I'm also sure it would have been quickly forgotten and written off as just another example of a footballer doing something stupid (in a long history of footballers doing bloody stupid things). Instead, he's tried to defend the indefensible, and in doing so he's given weight to the counter argument that he can't handle criticism, and that he's just playing the race / discrimination card to deflect attention away from poor performances.

For me, 'the photo', Özil's performances on the pitch, and his claims of scapegoating and discrimination are 3 distinct issues, each worthy of their own debate, but unfortunately neither side seem able (or willing) to separate them when making their arguments. For what it's worth, I think he's been unbelievably stupid with the photo, that his performances have been 'meh' for some time, and that (on some level) he is probably hoping that his claims of discrimination will deflect attention from the issue of his form. However, I also think that there probably is some merit to his claims of discrimination and scapegoating too, even if he is also using it to deflect - I don't think the two counter-accusations have to be mutually exclusive.

They are distinct issues which is probably why I can't draw a clear cut conclusion. The DFB should never have let this issue get to this point and distract the players. It was self sabotage. Ozil could have issued a statement much earlier as well to cut the BS. He knows the game. It was just a picture and I get his argument about respecting office but I can imagine he's been on the defensive about the photo from day one and it's rubbed people the wrong way. It's bled into a larger argument about integration and racism. You can't really run from this sort of debate but actions from both parties have made things worse for people that actually have to deal with this problem on a everyday basis in Germany. But it's on the German FA to fix this problem.

How will Ozil feel looking back on his time representing Germany? What a way to end it.

[Globalgunner]

I don't know what you're reading either if you think I said Arsenal have been shit because of Ozil. :doh: GW:rose:

Why dont you post a quote or 2 of mine spanning 3 years where ive said what you said. that Ozil is not the worst player on the pitch. You had a notion in your head and affixed my name to it. Own it, dont run away or try to deflect from it. Smilies are not an argument buttress either. Its juvenile.

[Power n Glory]

Why dont you post a quote or 2 of mine spanning 3 years where ive said what you said. that Ozil is not the worst player on the pitch. You had a notion in your head and affixed my name to it. Own it, dont run away or try to deflect from it. Smilies are not an argument buttress either. Its juvenile.

I don't have to go back 3 years. You’ve been saying the same thing about Wenger for years but that doesn’t mean players aren’t accountable for performances. Especially the ones that have experience with massive clubs.


The reason Arsenal have been crap since Ozil has been here is the same reason weve been crap before Ozil came here. That reason has since left the club.

The argument from most was always that he’s a different player for Germany and before joining us. We’ll soon find out how he plays under Unai and we’ve seen that even with Germany and playing his favoured number 10 role, he was unable to make an impact. That’s not saying all the other players were much better.

[dazthegooner]

Usmanov may sell his shares.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/11447144/alisher-usmanov-may-sell-30-per-cent-arsenal-stake-to-stan-kroenke-in-ownership-dispute

[Özim]

Mentioned this earier think it might have been missed, here it is again:


Terrible news, Usmanov allegedly wanting to sell his share in the club, potentially that could mean Kroenke owning the whole club. What's clear is Kroenke won't invest, looking at our budget we've had about 60 odd million for Emery, some might say it's because he's a new manager (not sure I totally agree), Everton have spent 50 million on one player.

So we have a billionaire owner who basically sits there and makes money, all the others seem to invest even the guy at Everton (Usmanov could end up their and make them competitors for us).

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-billionaire-usmanov-exploring-sale-of-his-arsenal-stake-ft-says-11446839

[I am invisible]

They are distinct issues which is probably why I can't draw a clear cut conclusion. The DFB should never have let this issue get to this point and distract the players. It was self sabotage. Ozil could have issued a statement much earlier as well to cut the BS. He knows the game. It was just a picture and I get his argument about respecting office but I can imagine he's been on the defensive about the photo from day one and it's rubbed people the wrong way. It's bled into a larger argument about integration and racism. You can't really run from this sort of debate but actions from both parties have made things worse for people that actually have to deal with this problem on a everyday basis in Germany. But it's on the German FA to fix this problem.

How will Ozil feel looking back on his time representing Germany? What a way to end it.
I don’t buy the “respecting office” line - I reckon the truth has more to do with him a) not having the bottle to say no a man like Erdogan (especially if he still has family back and in Turkey, or harbours any hopes of living there one day), and then b) digging his heels in over offering an explanation purely because his mortal enemy, Grindel, kept demanding one, as he went about making the whole situation about as bad as it could be. And now it’s snowballed out of all control and neither side will back down over their obstinate stance...

[Power n Glory]

I don’t buy the “respecting office” line - I reckon the truth has more to do with him a) not having the bottle to say no a man like Erdogan (especially if he still has family back and in Turkey, or harbours any hopes of living there one day), and then b) digging his heels in over offering an explanation purely because his mortal enemy, Grindel, kept demanding one, as he went about making the whole situation about as bad as it could be. And now it’s snowballed out of all control and neither side will back down over their obstinate stance...

That's a point.

Agree on Ozil making it worse. But should he stay silent when so many have had so much to say about him? I think he could have worded things differently. It's already a political issue and has probably gotten worse. Confirmation bias on both sides with the statement. The German FA have really done a shit job though. They've helped to promote divide and they really should know better. We'll see what their squad selection looks like for the next internationals.

I remember France going through something similar with the African French players. The Dutch had a similar issue with the players from Suriname. Personally, I wouldn't represent my adopted country unless I felt I was 100% embraced and part of the culture. But it need not go that deep. This could have be sorted quickly if Ozil just apologiesd for the photo.

[Toronto Gooner]

Personally, I wouldn't represent my adopted country unless I felt I was 100% embraced and part of the culture.
The point is that Ozil was born in Germany; it is not his adopted country.

I agree that Ozil could have used different language in his response. However, I suspect that he deliberately used English because he wanted to actually "speak" to the Arsenal fans. Also, I believe that he has left the door slightly open if the DFB apologise and if the DFB president resigns.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

He definitely left the door open for if they apologise. They won't though.

[Power n Glory]

The point is that Ozil was born in Germany; it is not his adopted country.

I agree that Ozil could have used different language in his response. However, I suspect that he deliberately used English because he wanted to actually "speak" to the Arsenal fans. Also, I believe that he has left the door slightly open if the DFB apologise and if the DFB president resigns.

Even though he was born in Germany, he said in his statement that he has two hearts. One German. One Turkish. If he himself identifies as part Turkish despite being born in Germany, surely he sees why some don't class him as a full German. He must know he could have handled that picture issue better by releasing a statement, like Gundogan and taken the sting out of the picture a little.

Also, it's not as if he just posed with a Turkish flag. The Turkish President, Erdoğan, is a controversial figure and considered by some to be a dictator and against Western values because of his actions in Syria, locking up political opponents and whatever else. That's the part that's getting lost in this debate. He's not even popular in Turkey.

Imagine if the England team had a player in that was part American, pro American and proud of his heritage. No problem with that at all. But imagine if he posed in a picture with Trump. There would be a shit storm whipped up by the press. If said player were to remain silent and then release a statement similar to what Ozil released, it would just raise further questions and controversy. Or imagine if we had a Muslim player in the team that took a picture with cleric or leader with extreme views. If the player can't see how this could cause a problem and identifies as British... Shit. We've seen fans lose their shit over a player posing in a rival teams shirt. :lol:

Ozil has a good PR team and they often handle his image with care. The the more I think about it, the more I think they dropped the ball and whipped up a shitstorm. Still no excuse for racism though. The German FA should handled this with more care before it started to get ugly and go beyond football.

[GP]

Usmanov may sell his shares.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/11447144/alisher-usmanov-may-sell-30-per-cent-arsenal-stake-to-stan-kroenke-in-ownership-dispute

Thank god

[Power n Glory]

Italian press say Ivan Gazidis has agreed to join AC Milan.

[GP]

David Ornstein says Wenger will replace him.

[Marc Overmars]

Italian press say Ivan Gazidis has agreed to join AC Milan.

We need direction from the top now more than ever, yet he’s jumping ship? So bizarre. You’d think after being in the shadows for so long he’d want to at least enjoy this season in power.

[I am invisible]

Italian press say Ivan Gazidis has agreed to join AC Milan.

We'll see. I understand his current contract with us expires in September, so this could just be a negotiating tactic...

[Power n Glory]

We need direction from the top now more than ever, yet he’s jumping ship? So bizarre. You’d think after being in the shadows for so long he’d want to at least enjoy this season in power.

Very true. We really need clear leadership at this point and the one guy that has brought everyone together to steer the ship. Maybe he feels his work at Arsenal is done when looking at structural and financial standpoint. Time to move on to a new project. I hope that’s not the case because we’re still a long way off from where we want to be.

[SMatthews]

David Ornstein says Wenger will replace him.

He’s in stage four of the grieving process

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/arsenal/story/3568618/arsene-wenger-staying-at-arsenal-for-22-years-perhaps-my-biggest-mistake

[SMatthews]

We need direction from the top now more than ever, yet he’s jumping ship? So bizarre. You’d think after being in the shadows for so long he’d want to at least enjoy this season in power.

What would he do that any other CEO suit couldn’t? These guys are interchangeable. MD’s, CEO’s and Presidents frequently move to new companies even during times of instability, but a new face comes in and it carries on as usual.

[Toronto Gooner]

A lot of "what ifs" in your reply. I started my reply responding to your comment about an "adopted" country. Ozil was born in Germany and chose Germany as his national team, despite being eligible to play for Turkey.

[Power n Glory]

A lot of "what ifs" in your reply. I started my reply responding to your comment about an "adopted" country. Ozil was born in Germany and chose Germany as his national team, despite being eligible to play for Turkey.

You don't have to wrestle with the 'what if' scenarios if you don't want to. But if we want to deal with facts, we can.

Ozil said in his statement he has two hearts, One Turkish. One German. He posed with the Turkish Presidents, who is seen as a dictator and someone that doesn't represent German and Western values. If you identify as German and have chosen to align yourself with German values, why put up such a staunch response to the photo and not just apologies? Surely he can see how bad this looks and how opponents against integration will use this opportunity?

Maybe adopted country isn't the right word, but what's the use in debating semantics considering what I previously posted and the above?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

There are vociferous sects of German society that very much believe in the kind of regime that Erdogan seems to represent, but I agree with the point that he should have quickly distanced himself from Erdogan or at least made the line between his position and the Erdogan's very clear.

I would agree though that whatever they (DVB/individuals) see him as, be it German, Turkish-German or even Turkish, they should be consistent with their view then they wouldn't leave themselves open to some of this stuff.

[Power n Glory]

I'm sure there are groups in Germany that believe in Erdogan's type of regime. From what I've read, there is a divide within the Turkish/German community over Erdogan. I didn't realise that at the time the picture was taken, Turkish migrants living in Germany were eligible to vote in the Turkish election. It's naive of Ozil not to see that he was used as part of an election campaign. How can you pose with the guy for a picture referring to him as 'My President' yet try to say this wasn't political? Not too long before the picture, Erdogan compared German officials to Nazi's. This was bound to cause a shit storm and he should made a similar sort of statement that he currently has on IG accusing the German FA of racism. He's played right into the hands of racist right wingers that are anti immigration and those extremist nuts that are also anti immigration / anti West. Surely, if he had friends and relatives that were anti Erdogan, they'd have advised him to issue a massive apology.

[Toronto Gooner]

How can you pose with the guy for a picture referring to him as 'My President'
Do you have a link to an actual quote from Ozil saying this? In his retirement statement, Ozil writes: "For me, having a picture with Presi*dent Erdogan wasn’t about politics or elections, it was about me respecting the highest office of my family’s country." You might argue semantics but the words, and therefore the meaning, are different.

[Power n Glory]

Do you have a link to an actual quote from Ozil saying this? In his retirement statement, Ozil writes: "For me, having a picture with Presi*dent Erdogan wasn’t about politics or elections, it was about me respecting the highest office of my family’s country." You might argue semantics but the words, and therefore the meaning, are different.

Dude, you're still arguing at a very surface level on this one. I don't think there is much else we can talk about. The funny thing is, I bet if Ozil had taken a picture in another teams shirt and the papers whipped up a story about a possible transfer, I bet there would be fury and fans urging him to clear up the confusion immediately.

[Toronto Gooner]

I came across a couple of comments on the Guardian website that said that it was Gundogan who wrote "my president" on the shirt given to Erdogan.

It is a bit of a strawman to write about Ozil wearing the shirt of another club team. I have never read one but I strongly suspect that most, if not all, will contain a clause specifically prohibiting the wearing of a shirt that is not the player's club or national team.

[Ralpheroo72]

Can I just say that our new Third kit is a pile of horse shit. It’s an abomination, puma are taking the absolute piss with that latest effort.

[GP]

Loving the new 3rd kit.

[Özim]

Can I just say that our new Third kit is a pile of horse shit. It’s an abomination, puma are taking the absolute piss with that latest effort.

I'm with you, awful choice of colour, really looks cheap.

[Marc Overmars]

Third kits tend to be horrific.

Though I did like last years black and pink one.

[Letters]

Not technically Arsenal related but wasn't sure where else to put it

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/26/santi-cazorla-arsenal-villarreal-injury

Santi :bow:

Wish him well.

[fakeyank]

Not technically Arsenal related but wasn't sure where else to put it

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/26/santi-cazorla-arsenal-villarreal-injury

Santi :bow:

Wish him well.

Love Santi. Would have been over the moon had we kept him on a "pay as you play" deal. Best wishes Santi!

:titsup::loveblush::smooch:

[Letters]

:titsup:

Wow. It's been about 5 years since I've seen anyone use that one :lol:

[fakeyank]

:lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

http://i67.tinypic.com/2yy6pl3.jpg

WTF? :haha:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Is that the 3rd kit!?!?

It’s fucking horrific!!! :yikes:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

WTF!??? 3 preseason games? We've signed a slow geriatric from Juve and dIspensed of the midfield genius Santi!

[Mac76]

http://i67.tinypic.com/2yy6pl3.jpg

WTF? :haha:

Yes, i'd heard Arsenal Ladies had made a new signing...

[I am invisible]

http://i67.tinypic.com/2yy6pl3.jpg

WTF? :haha:

https://youtu.be/ixaBH_KAQmU

[AFC Leveller]

Banter era XI

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38160594_2181141535456507_325014773882159104_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=00e0f63472ba5e0fec460f08d82aae5b&oe=5BC8814E

[Marc Overmars]

Miyaichi. :lol:

I think there were some on here who were convinced he was the real deal.

I'll never understand what signing Park-Chu Young was all about. Especially as we came in at the last minute for him when he was about to sign for Lille.

Also, I hated Frimpong. Pure banter era shite.

[Globalgunner]

Banter era XI

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38160594_2181141535456507_325014773882159104_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=00e0f63472ba5e0fec460f08d82aae5b&oe=5BC8814E

Wenger sure knew how to pick em

[mkkreuk]

Wow what a bit line up!

Think a bit harsh on Eboue and Gervinho to be lumped in with the rest of them!

[Mac76]

Wow what a bit line up!

Think a bit harsh on Eboue and Gervinho to be lumped in with the rest of them!

Agree, Eboue was devent and Gervinho was one of the first to suffer from the Wenger's-totally-lost-it era

[LDG]

Ivan deffo on his way according to arseblog.

[SMatthews]

Goodbye and fuck off. He was always just another suited fraud. Another numpty will fill his shoes soon enough.

[GP]

Wenger will replace him, I'm hearing.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger will replace him, I'm hearing.:redcard:

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger will replace him, I'm hearing.

That would probably be the funniest thing ever.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

People were always obsessed with him 'Going upstairs'.....

[Mac76]

Wenger will replace him, I'm hearing.

:ilt:

[LDG]

That would probably be the funniest thing ever.

There is trolling, there is media.....but then....

[Globalgunner]

This is a man who only just admitted he probably stayed too long at Arsenal

[Özim]

Makes me laugh, told us he had job offers left right and centre from all kind of clubs, months later still noone wants him and the only place he can run to is the club that kept him on when everyone else would have got rid years ago!

[Letters]

:lol:

Wenger :bow:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Not sure how anyone can think going from Ivan to Wenger as CEO is a good thing.

I'd much rather it be Josh Kroenke if that's the case though I'd prefer for Ivan to stay though the lack of words from him means that he's either going or is seriously considering it. Heard they're offering him an equity stake in the club which could be worth up to 25 million which is difficult for anyone to pass down.

[Mac76]

Not sure how anyone can think going from Ivan to Wenger as CEO is a good thing.



err, why is everyone taking the Wenger thing seriously - it was a joke wasn't it - i mean Wenger's not going to be brought back after they forced him out - right? :unsure:

[Master Splinter]

I think going from Ivan to Wenger as CEO is a good thing.

[SMatthews]

I think going from Ivan to Wenger as CEO is a good thing.

No bites yet. Give it time.

[mkkreuk]

"Stan Kroenke, has made an offer to buy the whole of the club in a deal that would value the Gunners at £1.8bn."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45094538

[KSE Comedy Club]

Usmanov should just say no.

It’s the same offer he made to Stan.

[Gooner23]

It's been on the cards for a while so no surprises really. Still bad news though, he's a fucking leech.

[Özim]

We desperately need this not to happen, if it does this club is finished as a competitve outfit.

The guy is trying to fund this with a loan, it's not even his own money! The worry is that the talk that Usmanov wants out is true he might just accept it, on the other hand he may not be willing to sell to a guy who has stopped him getting involved at all in the club, he doesn't really need the money tbh.

[Globalgunner]

You've got to look on the bright side really as there is no other option. If Wenger had still been in charge now I would have been thinking suicidal thoughts, but Kroenke might let the club run itself or he might now turn into the owner from hell who only wants to milk his assets.
If he leaves the football decisions to experts, i think we might be ok. We can buy players up to 100m on occasion as we have shown, but not 2 or 3 each season.

For me its only the football that counts. If he lets the club use its own revenues we will grow enough to still compete but probably not beat the 3 money clubs.

If he starts to fk us about we know what to do. Hit him in the pocket, its the only thing he cares about.

[Power n Glory]

We desperately need this not to happen, if it does this club is finished as a competitve outfit.

Did you have any hope of us being competitive again? You’ve been misery guts all preseason despite Wenger finally getting the boot.

You’re not the only one though. It will take a lot for the fanbase to recover from what’s happened to this club. Every single move we make has been met with cynicism by a lot of people. This news certainly won’t help that. Disturbing to here that Stan doesn’t have to disclose our finances once he owns it all. It’s all a done deal. Jabba the Hut has agreed to sell. Leeches.

[Özim]

You've got to look on the bright side really as there is no other option. If Wenger had still been in charge now I would have been thinking suicidal thoughts, but Kroenke might let the club run itself or he might now turn into the owner from hell who only wants to milk his assets.
If he leaves the football decisions to experts, i think we might be ok. We can buy players up to 100m on occasion as we have shown, but not 2 or 3 each season.

For me its only the football that counts. If he lets the club use its own revenues we will grow enough to still compete but probably not beat the 3 money clubs.

If he starts to fk us about we know what to do. Hit him in the pocket, its the only thing he cares about.

You're right it is football that counts, but Kroenke know nothing about football and isn't in the least bit interested in it.

Kroenke has no intention of lettings us buy 100 million players, look at this summer, we've spent what 70 odd million and are now selling players. He's in it to make money not to make the club successful, he's been here years and since he's been here we've been going backwards and never been bothered about winning the big prizes.

Yes Wenger was at fault for that, but it's the clubs owner that decides whether he's happy with the managers performance and the result and the guy has been, he was backing Wenger for years.

There's no doubt this would be a terrible terrible thing for AFC, as for hitting him in the pocket, if we get top 4 it's been shown this will never happen, it's only if things go badly wrong like last season that people start not turning up.

[GP]

Great news to get Jabba the Gutt out of my club.

[Özim]

Did you have any hope of us being competitive again? You’ve been misery guts all preseason despite Wenger finally getting the boot.

You’re not the only one though. It will take a lot for the fanbase to recover from what’s happened to this club. Every single move we make has been met with cynicism by a lot of people. This news certainly won’t help that. Disturbing to here that Stan doesn’t have to disclose our finances once he owns it all. It’s all a done deal. Jabba the Hut has agreed to sell. Leeches.

Yes I did, we'll have to see what Emery does, but in todays market I'm disappointed with the amount of money we've had available, even the likes of West Ham have had more, new manager or not it's disappointing.

Kroenke is the worst of the worst when it comes to owners, it's been proven we don't need to speculate, look at his franchises in the US (where fans don't like him) and look at us since he's been here, he's not bothered about winning and doesn't know a thing about football so him owning the whole club is a bad thing whatever way you look at it.

You want an owner interested in the clubs on the pitch affairs as well, not just someone who looks at it as a cash cow, once he owns the whole club he can basically do whatever he want with no questions asked, not good when he's not interested in the football side at all if you ask me, at least the guy at Chelsea loves football and enjoys watching his team win.

[Özim]

It's fair to say that you'd have to be pretty ignorant to actively want Kroenke to own the whole club because generally it's not seen as a good thing to have one person own a whole club if they have no real interest in the sport and their primary interest is money. I can remember people laughed when Abrahmovic too over at Chelsea, but at least the guy invested his own money and loves football.

Realistically Usmanov has no choice, he's not going to be able to sell them to anyone else, 30% of the sharers with no say, no dividend, noone is going to buy them from him.

Sad, sad day for the club, borrowed money being used to buy the club by a man who has been shown to fail the clubs he owns, once he owns it doesn't have to reveal anything about anything and with Kroenke that will mean we'll know nothing about what's going on the with the club. Any fan of AFC should be considered.

[Power n Glory]

Yes I did, we'll have to see what Emery does, but in todays market I'm disappointed with the amount of money we've had available, even the likes of West Ham have had more, new manager or not it's disappointing.

Kroenke is the worst of the worst when it comes to owners, it's been proven we don't need to speculate, look at his franchises in the US (where fans don't like him) and look at us since he's been here, he's not bothered about winning and doesn't know a thing about football so him owning the whole club is a bad thing whatever way you look at it.

You want an owner interested in the clubs on the pitch affairs as well, not just someone who looks at it as a cash cow, once he owns the whole club he can basically do whatever he want with no questions asked, not good when he's not interested in the football side at all if you ask me, at least the guy at Chelsea loves football and enjoys watching his team win.

I still see a lot a negativity over money spent and transfers and we haven’t even had a competitive game yet. We spent a lot of money on Lacazette and Aubameyang last season and we’ve spent a lot on Ozil’s wages. We’ve spent quite a bit since the new sponsorship deals and have wasted a lot. I’m not looking too deeply into this season on transfers because Emery has to establish a structure and then get rid of the useless pieces. If we continue to go for cheap bargains despite an obvious need after this season, then I will start to worry a little.

I’ve spoken on Kroenke enough and looking at what he has done with the LA Rams, I predicted we’d soon see Wenger get the boot and the way Wenger was booted was similar to how the previous Rams coach was booted. Wenger was given a new contract but booted after a year into that new contract.

Also, I’ve always been wary of drawing too much of a comparison between how franchises are run in American sports and the Premier League. In American Sports, they have a draft system and salary caps. I don’t think you can inject your own cash into the playing staff. It’s becoming that way in the Prem as well. Not really sure what point there is in looking deeply into how is other franchises are performing. It’s more about how they’re run and the staff behind them.

If we’re in for another 10 years of misery, like what we saw from Wenger, what are you going to do? That’s the bigger question.

[Özim]

I still see a lot a negativity over money spent and transfers and we haven’t even had a competitive game yet. We spent a lot of money on Lacazette and Aubameyang last season and we’ve spent a lot on Ozil’s wages. We’ve spent quite a bit since the new sponsorship deals and have wasted a lot. I’m not looking too deeply into this season on transfers because Emery has to establish a structure and then get rid of the useless pieces. If we continue to go for cheap bargains despite an obvious need after this season, then I will start to worry a little.

I’ve spoken on Kroenke enough and looking at what he has done with the LA Rams, I predicted we’d soon see Wenger get the boot and the way Wenger was booted was similar to how the previous Rams coach was booted. Wenger was given a new contract but booted after a year into that new contract.

Also, I’ve always been wary of drawing too much of a comparison between how franchises are run in American sports and the Premier League. In American Sports, they have a draft system and salary caps. I don’t think you can inject your own cash into the playing staff. It’s becoming that way in the Prem as well. Not really sure what point there is in looking deeply into how is other franchises are performing. It’s more about how they’re run and the staff behind them.

If we’re in for another 10 years of misery, like what we saw from Wenger, what are you going to do? That’s the bigger question.

I see this re-hashed time and time again about Auba and Laca, we were 40 million in credit due to all the players sales before we bought him, so in fact he didn't cost us a lot, so actually our spend is very low. I am looking into the spend because we were told we had 50-60 million before the summer and that's how it's turned out and whichever way you look at it that's pocked change these days, even small clubs spend more (and now we're trying to sell).

Even if you ignore the American side, you can look at what he's done since he's been with us, we've not been competitve, he's been more than hapy with 4th place and supported Wenger for years when he underachieved so that speaks volumes for me.

Once he takes 100% control there's nothing you can do, nothing will happen unless we start falling away, if we got CL football ever other year that would be enough, basically game over.

[Power n Glory]

I see this re-hashed time and time again about Auba and Laca, we were 40 million in credit due to all the players sales before we bought him, so in fact he didn't cost us a lot, so actually our spend is very low. I am looking into the spend because we were told we had 50-60 million before the summer and that's how it's turned out and whichever way you look at it that's pocked change these days, even small clubs spend more (and now we're trying to sell).

Even if you ignore the American side, you can look at what he's done since he's been with us, we've not been competitve, he's been more than hapy with 4th place and supported Wenger for years when he underachieved so that speaks volumes for me.

Once he takes 100% control there's nothing you can do, nothing will happen unless we start falling away, if we got CL football ever other year that would be enough, basically game over.

Does it matter how the money was raised? We spent close to £100m the season before that on Mustafi and Xhaka with hardly any sales to finances those moves. We've spent around £70m this year with few sales. You criticise the waste when it comes to how we hand out new contracts and the players we sign but also criticise when we decide to sell off some deadwood to finance new sales. You criticise anything and everything Arsenal related but have nothing but good things to say about clubs like Chelsea and Liverpool. Why are you a Gooner? That’s a serious question. Why support Arsenal? What’s good about us? If we’re in for a shit show whilst Stan is in charge, why bother to support this club?

[Özim]

Does it matter how the money was raised? We spent close to £100m the season before that on Mustafi and Xhaka with hardly any sales to finances those moves. We've spent around £70m this year with few sales. You criticise the waste when it comes to how we hand out new contracts and the players we sign but also criticise when we decide to sell off some deadwood to finance new sales. You criticise anything and everything Arsenal related but have nothing but good things to say about clubs like Chelsea and Liverpool. Why are you a Gooner? That’s a serious question. Why support Arsenal? What’s good about us? If we’re in for a shit show whilst Stan is in charge, why bother to support this club?

Are you seriously asking me that question, of course it matters because it's not the club spending it's the club using money it's received from sales, the profits are untouched, the point is to improve you have to invest like everyone else, not just selling and use that money.

More like 70 million, can't remember the balance sheet but again pretty sure we covered a fair bit of that.

I criticise when handing out contracts to deadwood yes, I expect us to sign up the better players but I'm not interested in losers like Xhaka that are a waste of space, would rather we got rid now.

That's untrue, we've made some decent signings, Torreira and the French guy but at the same time I'll say when I feel we haven't spend in the right places.
In reality unlike other top clubs we never look for the best, player wise, manager wise it's all the same, all the other top clubs don't settle they go for the best because they are totally focussed on success and that's the big difference between us and them.

You know why that is though don't you, it's because of the guy at the top that doesn't really care if we're a success on the pitch either way, everything comes from the top, the same person who was happy with having a serial loser at the helm for so long, a guy ony interested in the finances.

We'll see what Emery can do and I hope he does a good job, hard to see where we can go with such a low budget (clearly the club haven't backed him which is pretty unusual with a new manager at a big club) and so much deadwood at the moment, it will take quite a few years to get back challenging IMO, but and this is a big but, it may not happen at all with Kroenke at the helm because winning isn't his priority.

[Power n Glory]

Are you seriously asking me that question, of course it matters because it's not the club spending it's the club using money it's received from sales, the profits are untouched, the point is to improve you have to invest like everyone else, not just selling and use that money.

More like 70 million, can't remember the balance sheet but again pretty sure we covered a fair bit of that.

I criticise when handing out contracts to deadwood yes, I expect us to sign up the better players but I'm not interested in losers like Xhaka that are a waste of space, would rather we got rid now.

That's untrue, we've made some decent signings, Torreira and the French guy but at the same time I'll say when I feel we haven't spend in the right places.
In reality unlike other top clubs we never look for the best, player wise, manager wise it's all the same, all the other top clubs don't settle they go for the best because they are totally focussed on success and that's the big difference between us and them.

You know why that is though don't you, it's because of the guy at the top that doesn't really care if we're a success on the pitch either way, everything comes from the top, the same person who was happy with having a serial loser at the helm for so long, a guy ony interested in the finances.

We'll see what Emery can do and I hope he does a good job, hard to see where we can go with such a low budget (clearly the club haven't backed him which is pretty unusual with a new manager at a big club) and so much deadwood at the moment, it will take quite a few years to get back challenging IMO, but and this is a big but, it may not happen at all with Kroenke at the helm because winning isn't his priority.

As I just pointed out, we had two seasons in a row where we didn't make any massive gains from player sales. Sorry...5 seasons in a row where we spent significantly more than what we brought in from player sales.

You never feel like we spend money on the right players or in the right places and even if we do (Aubameyang) you'll criticise how we financed the deal despite not rating a single player we sold to make the moves happen (Ox, Theo, Giroud). Where is the common sense in that?

Let's get to the main point. Why do you support Arsenal?

[Özim]

As I just pointed out, we had two seasons in a row where we didn't make any massive gains from player sales. Sorry...5 seasons in a row where we spent significantly more than what we brought in from player sales.

You never feel like we spend money on the right players or in the right places and even if we do (Aubameyang) you'll criticise how we financed the deal despite not rating a single player we sold to make the moves happen (Ox, Theo, Giroud). Where is the common sense in that?

Let's get to the main point. Why do you support Arsenal?

That should be the norm, every other big club does it, it shouldn't be anything special, I'm not sure about that to be honest so would need to look at our spend.

Wrong again, happy to buy Auba, I'm not criticising it but the way I see it any spending for us should be above that, that was just spending money we have not money from profits. I actually rated Ox very highly and was happy with selling the others but as mentioned we should spend that and some of the profits every season like every other club.

Why is that even relevant, why does anyone support a sportsman or club, because it's they're favourite generally.

In answer to your question though basically because they're the club I've always supported since I started watching football in the Graham years and the one I associate with the most.

[Globalgunner]

Really no need to get on each others nerves over this. It's a done deal. Fait accompli. No one is going to buy Usmanovs shares with no say and no prospect of future ownership. I'm surprised that Stan is even offering him top dollar per share. He could have offered less and what would the Uzbek do?

We as fans will just have to suck it up and hope for the best. It's like falling out of a 70 storey building. You can ask either scream all the way down or remember all the fine women you've encountered. "Mmmmm Beyonce........... .."

[Power n Glory]

That should be the norm, every other big club does it, it shouldn't be anything special, I'm not sure about that to be honest so would need to look at our spend.

Wrong again, happy to buy Auba, I'm not criticising it but the way I see it any spending for us should be above that, that was just spending money we have not money from profits. I actually rated Ox very highly and was happy with selling the others but as mentioned we should spend that and some of the profits every season like every other club.

Why is that even relevant, why does anyone support a sportsman or club, because it's they're favourite generally.

In answer to your question though basically because they're the club I've always supported since I started watching football in the Graham years and the one I associate with the most.

Look up the transfer history.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

Compare that to Chelsea's spending over the last 5 years. They sell a shit load to finance there deals but where is the scrutiny?

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-chelsea/alletransfers/verein/631

I don't care about spreadsheets and net spending. It's only the football that matters.

How do you associate with us the most? We're at odds on playing style, how we're run and players we sign. We've had a real shitty period under Wenger recently but I question why continue on if we all can't get behind the club now at this point? If there is no hope under Kroenke, what's the point in following Arsenal?

Unlike you, I have some sort of hope for Kroenke and the same goes for Gazidis. Same goes for Emery and the players we sign in fact. If I didn't have that, I'd stop supporting. If it's to the point where my support is just toxic, I'd have to question why I even bother especially if I get no joy from watching the games.

[Özim]

Look up the transfer history.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

Compare that to Chelsea's spending over the last 5 years. They sell a shit load to finance there deals but where is the scrutiny?

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-chelsea/alletransfers/verein/631

I don't care about spreadsheets and net spending. It's only the football that matters.

How do you associate with us the most? We're at odds on playing style, how we're run and players we sign. We've had a real shitty period under Wenger recently but I question why continue on if we all can't get behind the club now at this point? If there is no hope under Kroenke, what's the point in following Arsenal?

Unlike you, I have some sort of hope for Kroenke and the same goes for Gazidis. Same goes for Emery and the players we sign in fact. If I didn't have that, I'd stop supporting. If it's to the point where my support is just toxic, I'd have to question why I even bother especially if I get no joy from watching the games.

Fair enough, we're rubbish at transfers and waste money on players with no value and get rubbish transfer fees, but if we go back further we can see our net spend was low whereas Chelsea's was very high so they increased the value of their squad significantly allowing them to make more money back hence the reason they're able to recoup a lot, which we can't.

Interesting that Liverpools net spend this summer is 150, last year they were just 6 million up so they've spend 144 odd million. The look at Man U and you can see they've spent a shedload, likewise City so my point kinda stands.

How, they're the club I've always supported, they're the club I want to succeed not anyone else, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy with everything especially given we haven't competed for years and look unlikely to do so.

I'm reasonably happy with Emery, but bringing him in does show one thing, where other big clubs generally go after the bigger names, in a way we've gone for someone lesser who has just come off relative failure at PSG, he may do a great job and I hope he does (and I'm sure happy we chose him over that Arteta guy who has no record) but he wasn't one of the top options like the guy at Juve or Simeone for example. I guess that shows that we're no longer really top tier though and the appointment reflects that.

That's good for you, but for me Kroenke has had years to prove himself and I would rather have had Usmanov a guy interested in football at the helm, at least he may have invested and wanted to see us successful on the pitch, which is at you've said many times what you're interested in and something that Kroenke has shown no interest in (he doesn't even come to most matches). We already know he's happy with top 4 and isn't too bothered about success, it's proven by his time here (and in the US), why would it change now.

[Özim]

Really no need to get on each others nerves over this. It's a done deal. Fait accompli. No one is going to buy Usmanovs shares with no say and no prospect of future ownership. I'm surprised that Stan is even offering him top dollar per share. He could have offered less and what would the Uzbek do?

We as fans will just have to suck it up and hope for the best. It's like falling out of a 70 storey building. You can ask either scream all the way down or remember all the fine women you've encountered. "Mmmmm Beyonce........... .."

Thing is Stan doesn't need the other 30%, he controls the club anyway, you have to ask yourself why he's willing to borrow to buy the rest of it, the only reason can be so he can make even more money doing whatever suits him with the club (borrowing against it if he wants to at any stage).

We're just a business to him, a business that makes money and doesn't need any input, the best kind of business really, the football side is just a distraction he doesn't need, there's a good reason he never comes to matches and rarely does any interviews, he's not bothered.

[Power n Glory]

Fair enough, we're rubbish at transfers and waste money on players with no value and get rubbish transfer fees, but if we go back further we can see our net spend was low whereas Chelsea's was very high so they increased the value of their squad significantly allowing them to make more money back hence the reason they're able to recoup a lot, which we can't.

Interesting that Liverpools net spend this summer is 150, last year they were just 6 million up so they've spend 144 odd million. The look at Man U and you can see they've spent a shedload, likewise City so my point kinda stands.

How, they're the club I've always supported, they're the club I want to succeed not anyone else, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy with everything especially given we haven't competed for years and look unlikely to do so.

I'm reasonably happy with Emery, but bringing him in does show one thing, where other big clubs generally go after the bigger names, in a way we've gone for someone lesser who has just come off relative failure at PSG, he may do a great job and I hope he does (and I'm sure happy we chose him over that Arteta guy who has no record) but he wasn't one of the top options like the guy at Juve or Simeone for example. I guess that shows that we're no longer really top tier though and the appointment reflects that.

That's good for you, but for me Kroenke has had years to prove himself and I would rather have had Usmanov a guy interested in football at the helm, at least he may have invested and wanted to see us successful on the pitch, which is at you've said many times what you're interested in and something that Kroenke has shown no interest in (he doesn't even come to most matches). We already know he's happy with top 4 and isn't too bothered about success, it's proven by his time here (and in the US), why would it change now.

We're a club you follow out of tradition. If you don't believe we're ever going to get to a certain standard under Kroenke, then what are you doing?

[Özim]

We're a club you follow out of tradition. If you don't believe we're ever going to get to a certain standard under Kroenke, then what are you doing?

Firstly I was hoping this would never happen and that he sold the club on or sold to Usmanov for a high enough offer, it seems it's not the case and the guy has realised this is his reliable source of money and despite having no interest as a sport wants the whole business so he can most likely borrow against it so he can fund his next business venture or something along those lines.

Now it has, it is what it is, you just hope you have a manager with some ambition to win, time will tell, as I said not sure whether Emery will be a success or not, I liked how PSG played but didn't really think much of some of the capitulations and of course his budget was much higher there. Did well at Sevilla though I guess winning the Europa a couple times.

Be interesting to see anyway, would have rather he'd got rid of players like Xhaka though, just don't see what he sees in him. For his signings I'll give him 6 out of 10, Torreira is excellent, Leno is an unknown not top notch but has potential but we don't know whether he'll ever realise it, Sokratis is a bit slow, Guendouzi has looked decent in pre-season so has some potential and Lichsteiner is a bit meh, competition for Bellerin I guess.

Seems to like Lacazette luckily and he's a quality striker, going forward we're excellent, though we should have maybe signed a winger, not sure about the defence though, still looking dodgy thus far, but we'll see if that changes.

To have any chance against City we'll need a high tempo game where we close them down in our first game, interesting to see if he implements that (that's the only way you can do anything against them IMO as Man U and Liverpool showed last season).

[Özim]

Usmanov has accepted the bid, we're now 100% owned by the worst possible owner in football. He'll probably buy Everton and turn them into a force with his wealth thus making it even harder for us to compete. Really sad day for this once great club.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45102559

Will probably pay himself huge dividends to cover the loan so the club will be paying it back on his behalf.

Arsenal :rose:

[SMatthews]

Everton become a force! Good one that.

[Özim]

Everton become a force! Good one that.

Some might have said the same about Man City 10 years ago.

[SMatthews]

True, but being given a free stadium and being owned by a country might just make it more likely than Everton. Everton! Honestly.

[Özim]

True, but being given a free stadium and being owned by a country might just make it more likely than Everton. Everton! Honestly.

The guy is richer than all the other owners, think he's the UK richest man, that's enough for him to make them competitive that's for sure.

That's what Abrahmovic did with a lot less money after all.

[Power n Glory]

FFP rules, homegrown player rules and salary rulings won't allow Jabba to just spend spend spend like we saw under Chelsea and City. He will have to do it a different way.

The fact that the sloppy shit has jumped from one Premiership team to another should raise serious eyebrows and I'm surpised that there is no ruling to stop this sort of behaviour.

[Özim]

Chelsea in advanced talks to sign Spain number 2 keeper Kepa for 71 million.

[Penguin]

True, but being given a free stadium and being owned by a country might just make it more likely than Everton. Everton! Honestly.

Anyone can become a force if you inject enough money into them. Remember when Abramovich first took over Chelsea and everyone used to say 'money can't buy success'? :lol:

[SMatthews]

My biggest fear is if Usmanov ends up at Burnley. Just think of what Dyche could do with all that money.

[GP]

Anyone can become a force if you inject enough money into them. Remember when Abramovich first took over Chelsea and everyone used to say 'money can't buy success'? :lol:

...no?

Everyone knows money buys success. Utd had been doing it for years.

[Power n Glory]

Anyone can become a force if you inject enough money into them. Remember when Abramovich first took over Chelsea and everyone used to say 'money can't buy success'? :lol:

Worth a read. It's about FFP.

https://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2018/1/7/16854844/financial-fair-play-and-aston-villa-the-full-story

You can't just inject money into teams like you used to and I'm sure they'll be keeping a close eye on Jabba. The fact that his former business partner, who is now the Everton owner, used to own shares in Arsenal, sold them to Jabba and now Jabba is fucking off and selling his shares to Stan to maybe invest in Everton is an absolute cluster of a situation. You have to be out of your mind to want Jabba as the owner. He's an opportunist and I can't believe there are no regulations to stop this sort of ownership hop scotch.

[Globalgunner]

True, but being given a free stadium and being owned by a country might just make it more likely than Everton. Everton! Honestly.

Everton dominated this league for a while in the 80`s. Just from having a great manager. If not for the ban on England clubs playing in the CL, they could have made great strides. Anything is possible, especially nowadays. If the Fulham owner buys Wembley.....who knows, It will be renamed the super Cottage.

[Globalgunner]

Worth a read. It's about FFP.

https://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2018/1/7/16854844/financial-fair-play-and-aston-villa-the-full-story

You can't just inject money into teams like you used to and I'm sure they'll be keeping a close eye on Jabba. The fact that his former business partner, who is now the Everton owner, used to own shares in Arsenal, sold them to Jabba and now Jabba is fucking off and selling his shares to Stan to maybe invest in Everton is an absolute cluster of a situation. You have to be out of your mind to want Jabba as the owner. He's an opportunist and I can't believe there are no regulations to stop this sort of ownership hop scotch.

So what does that make Stan, the benevolent corporate raider?

[Power n Glory]

So what does that make Stan, the benevolent corporate raider?

Nothing benevolent about him but we can at least see that he's a long term investor and seems committed to Arsenal along with Josh Kroenke. He's had to jump through a lot of hoops to get this far and stick it out. An investor like Usmanov should make everyone uneasy because he's jumped ship and hasn't even been part of the club that long. There should be a rule in place where you shouldn't be allowed to invest in another Premier League club for 10 years or so if you're a majority shareholder. If he doesn't like what's happening at Everton, is there anything to stop Jabba from investing in a bigger club if the opportunity presents itself?

[Özim]

Nothing benevolent about him but we can at least see that he's a long term investor and seems committed to Arsenal along with Josh Kroenke. He's had to jump through a lot of hoops to get this far and stick it out. An investor like Usmanov should make everyone uneasy because he's jumped ship and hasn't even been part of the club that long. There should be a rule in place where you shouldn't be allowed to invest in another Premier League club for 10 years or so if you're a majority shareholder. If he doesn't like what's happening at Everton, is there anything to stop Jabba from investing in a bigger club if the opportunity presents itself?

He's a long term investor who has no interest in anything but the financial side, a guy who whilst with us has been more than happy to settle for 4th place without ever being bothered about pushing on and winning, that's proven, he's been here a long time and has brought absolutely nothing other than even more contempt for the fans. Some describe him as a leech in fact.

Now he's in total control he can make sure there's no general meeting, can pay all the dividends and company management fees as he likes and borrow against the club to fund other businesses.

As for Usmanov, can't blame him, years owning 30% of a business and having no say whatsoever (Stand made sure of that as he wanted to control everything clearly), not surprised he jumped ship.

Not being funny but you're making Kroenke sound like he's the kind of owner you want, he's not it's proven, we don't have to look at anything else but the club since he joined and what's happened to it, what we wanted was an owner who loves the sport and wants to see success on the pitch, not a guy who only focusses on the balance sheet

As for sticking it out, he's not had to do anything except sit there and watch the profit roll in whilst he makes all the decisions and turns up when he feels like it, he's not stuck out anything, just like the manager we had he's had an easy ride and just stayed quiet in the US rather than face the fans.

[Özim]

So what does that make Stan, the benevolent corporate raider?

In football terms, he's the worst kind of owner, a guy with no interest in the sport who looks to maximise profit and possibly fund other businesses by borrowing against another business, he hasn't even bought the club with his own money, instead choosing to borrow again to purchase it.

Why anyone would see him as a positive is beyond me, borrowing to buy a business is generally not seen as a great thing.

[Power n Glory]

He's a long term investor who has no interest in anything but the financial side, a guy who whilst with us has been more than happy to settle for 4th place without ever being bothered about pushing on and winning, that's proven, he's been here a long time and has brought absolutely nothing other than even more contempt for the fans. Some describe him as a leech in fact.

Now he's in total control he can make sure there's no general meeting, can pay all the dividends and company management fees as he likes and borrow against the club to fund other businesses.

As for Usmanov, can't blame him, years owning 30% of a business and having no say whatsoever (Stand made sure of that as he wanted to control everything clearly), not surprised he jumped ship.

Not being funny but you're making Kroenke sound like he's the kind of owner you want, he's not it's proven, we don't have to look at anything else but the club since he joined and what's happened to it, what we wanted was an owner who loves the sport and wants to see success on the pitch, not a guy who only focusses on the balance sheet

As for sticking it out, he's not had to do anything except sit there and watch the profit roll in whilst he makes all the decisions and turns up when he feels like it, he's not stuck out anything, just like the manager we had he's had an easy ride and just stayed quiet in the US rather than face the fans.

Wait, do you think Usmanov has an actual interest in the football or Arsenal?

[Power n Glory]

In football terms, he's the worst kind of owner, a guy with no interest in the sport who looks to maximise profit and possibly fund other businesses by borrowing against another business, he hasn't even bought the club with his own money, instead choosing to borrow again to purchase it.

Why anyone would see him as a positive is beyond me, borrowing to buy a business is generally not seen as a great thing.

The Glazers did that.

The worst type of owners are the ones like Malaga's previous owners that fucked off after investing millions. The Newcastle owner. The dodgy former owners of Man City....there are plenty of examples of bad ownership in football where clubs go bust or get relegated.

[Özim]

Wait, do you think Usmanov has an actual interest in the football or Arsenal?

Usmanov clearly likes football yes, as for an interest in Arsenal if you like the sport and you invest in it it would be hard not to after years of investing, trouble is Stan doesn't like football so has no interest with what happens on the pitch.

[Özim]

The Glazers did that.

The worst type of owners are the ones like Malaga's previous owners that fucked off after investing millions. The Newcastle owner. The dodgy former owners of Man City....there are plenty of examples of bad ownership in football where clubs go bust or get relegated.

Yes but the difference is the Glazers gave the manager plenty of money to improve his squad, they spent on top top players and actually came to matches, Kroenke does neither. There are obviously other examples, but Kroenke is certainly amongst the worst yes, don't be surprised to see him borrow against the club in time, it's just a business to him and if the opportunity arises to buy another business he's bound to jump on it, that's the trouble with 100% ownership by a guy who doesn't like the sport.

[Power n Glory]

Usmanov clearly likes football yes, as for an interest in Arsenal if you like the sport and you invest in it it would be hard not to after years of investing, trouble is Stan doesn't like football so has no interest with what happens on the pitch.

Where are you getting this information from?

Also, you've ignored my posts on FFP rulings a couple of times now. It's not like before. You can't just invest your own money into a club without UEFA and the FA clamping down on you. Growth has to come from revenue generated from sponsorships.

[Power n Glory]

Yes but the difference is the Glazers gave the manager plenty of money to improve his squad, they spent on top top players and actually came to matches, Kroenke does neither. There are obviously other examples, but Kroenke is certainly amongst the worst yes, don't be surprised to see him borrow against the club in time, it's just a business to him and if the opportunity arises to buy another business he's bound to jump on it, that's the trouble with 100% ownership by a guy who doesn't like the sport.

Again, the Glazers didn't spend their own money. That's money generated from sponsorships they're spending.

[Özim]

Again, the Glazers didn't spend their own money. That's money generated from sponsorships they're spending.

Doesn't matter, they backed the manager add gave him plenty of funds to sign the best if necessary and have had success since they arrived. Stan has done neither.

[Power n Glory]

Doesn't matter, they backed the manager add gave him plenty of funds to sign the best if necessary and have had success since they arrived. Stan has done neither.

So Stan has held back funds from Wenger?

[Özim]

Where are you getting this information from?

Also, you've ignored my posts on FFP rulings a couple of times now. It's not like before. You can't just invest your own money into a club without UEFA and the FA clamping down on you. Growth has to come from revenue generated from sponsorships.

He does lots of interviews where he mentions the need to invest/change and win trophies, this article mentions his favourite footballers, he even talks about speaking to Abramovic about football, it's clearly he's a football fan you don't really need interviews to prove this:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/usmanov-claims-henry-wants-him-to-takeover-at-arsenal


(https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/usmanov-claims-henry-wants-him-to-takeover-at-arsenal)https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-summit-usmanov-arsenal/arsenal-player-sales-must-stop-says-usmanov-idUSBRE88R0NK20120928
(https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/usmanov-claims-henry-wants-him-to-takeover-at-arsenal)

Man City and PSG amongst other clubs have shown there's ways round this, FFP doesn't work.

[SMatthews]

Everton dominated this league for a while in the 80`s. Just from having a great manager. If not for the ban on England clubs playing in the CL, they could have made great strides. Anything is possible, especially nowadays. If the Fulham owner buys Wembley.....who knows, It will be renamed the super Cottage.

Do you mean that time when they dominated the league and won it twice in a decade? When Aston Villa were winning it too and Forest were killing it in Europe? When Southampton, Watford and Ipswich were battling for the title and Liverpool were the team really dominating the league? I’ll add Fulham to my growing list of teams that will keep me awake at night, along with Burnley. And Everton.

[Özim]

So Stan has held back funds from Wenger?

Wenger never wanted to spend, he wanted to build some sort of youth team fairytale, that suited Stan, thing is if he wanted us to win he would have pushed Wenger and put pressure on him, then it would have been on Wengers head if he chose not to spend and didn't win.

It's clear he was all too happy to sit back and watch us come 4th, we did it for long enough after all.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger never wanted to spend, he wanted to build some sort of youth team fairytale, that suited Stan, thing is if he wanted us to win he would have pushed Wenger and put pressure on him, then it would have been on Wengers head if he chose not to spend and didn't win.

It's clear he was all too happy to sit back and watch us come 4th, we did it for long enough after all.

We'll revisit this in a few seasons if GW is still ticking along and we'll also get to see what happens with Everton.

[Özim]

We'll revisit this in a few seasons if GW is still ticking along and we'll also get to see what happens with Everton.

Our only hope is that Emery turns out to be a miracle worker and identifies top talents for next to nothing, if he doesn't and we need to sign top players I personally think we'll be in trouble. I guess it also depends on how hungry Emery is for success.

But yes we'll see in a few years I guess.

[Power n Glory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmFEiAahENE

Best Arsenal Podcast out there. Discussing the ownership issue.

[Power n Glory]

Our only hope is that Emery turns out to be a miracle worker and identifies top talents for next to nothing, if he doesn't and we need to sign top players I personally think we'll be in trouble. I guess it also depends on how hungry Emery is for success.

But yes we'll see in a few years I guess.

It's more than Emery. It's Sven and Raul.

Was just listening to the Arsenal Vision Podcast and they raised a good point about Josh Kroenke being behind much of the recent changes as well as Gazidis. They think Josh will have a more active roll in the club and he is a football man!

[Globalgunner]

Josh is as much a football man as any beer chugger down the pub. What did he know about football before his Dad bought into Arsenal?. Nothing most likely. His heart might be in the right place but he has held no position in any football establishment before. He may give it a good go but we know why he is even within earshot of being considered for such a tough role.
As for FFP, thats a paper Tiger if there ever was one. As PSG and City have shown its easy to swerve round these rules in broad daylight. If you own a Country you can get its airline to sponsor your shirt, bib, or toilet seats for any price you care. Usmanov owns many companies primarily in metals and oil.
Any of his companies could win an "ahem" competitive bid to name the new Everton stadium, their training ground and bucket seats on the bench. Its a joke

[Power n Glory]

Josh is as much a football man as any beer chugger down the pub. What did he know about football before his Dad bought into Arsenal?. Nothing most likely. His heart might be in the right place but he has held no position in any football establishment before. He may give it a good go but we know why he is even within earshot of being considered for such a tough role.
As for FFP, thats a paper Tiger if there ever was one. As PSG and City have shown its easy to swerve round these rules in broad daylight. If you own a Country you can get its airline to sponsor your shirt, bib, or toilet seats for any price you care. Usmanov owns many companies primarily in metals and oil.
Any of his companies could win an "ahem" competitive bid to name the new Everton stadium, their training ground and bucket seats on the bench. Its a joke

Name the football men with great knowledge that run rival clubs?

AC Milan have been kicked out of the Europe. We'll see if they win an appeal and get back in. QPR have been handed a record fine. Not sure how long clubs can take the piss with the rules and not suffer the consequences. Trying to get around the regulations with lawyers and such will end up being costly.

[Globalgunner]

Name the football men with great knowledge that run rival clubs?

AC Milan have been kicked out of the Europe. We'll see if they win an appeal and get back in. QPR have been handed a record fine. Not sure how long clubs can take the piss with the rules and not suffer the consequences. Trying to get around the regulations with lawyers and such will end up being costly.

You must be a comedian. People that are actually doing the job....compared to Josh who has not run a boy scouts team before.....are you serious?. Let it go man, Kroenke's son may do a good job for us but he probably couldnt name half of the invincibles team. That s how much of a football man he is.

[Power n Glory]

You must be a comedian. People that are actually doing the job....compared to Josh who has not run a boy scouts team before.....are you serious?. Let it go man, Kroenke's son may do a good job for us but he probably couldnt name half of the invincibles team. That s how much of a football man he is.

Seriously, what are you talking about and what do you think I said previously? What do you think I mean by Josh Kroenke having a more active role?

I have to start questioning what you guys know about the club because I take it for granted for thinking we all read the same stuff. You're aware that it was Josh Kroenke that came over from the US to review the club structure and that's what lead to Wenger getting fired and the restructure with Emery, Sven and Raul taking over? That's what I mean by more active just in case you've missed what I'm talking about.
He's now taken up a Board position.

Do you think Usmanov can name the Invincible squad? Is that a prerequisite for all owners? Knowing a clubs history? What's the history of the owners at Liverpool and what do they know about football? Same goes for Abramovich and City owners. Look around the sport and the current models running the game. You don't have to be a football man. You just have to hire and empower people that are and know the game. That's what we've been doing with Raul, Sven and Emery.

[Globalgunner]

Seriously, what are you talking about and what do you think I said previously? What do you think I mean by Josh Kroenke having a more active role?

I have to start questioning what you guys know about the club because I take it for granted for thinking we all read the same stuff. You're aware that it was Josh Kroenke that came over from the US to review the club structure and that's what lead to Wenger getting fired and the restructure with Emery, Sven and Raul taking over? That's what I mean by more active just in case you've missed what I'm talking about.
He's now taken up a Board position.

Do you think Usmanov can name the Invincible squad? Is that a prerequisite for all owners? Knowing a clubs history? What's the history of the owners at Liverpool and what do they know about football? Same goes for Abramovich and City owners. Look around the sport and the current models running the game. You don't have to be a football man. You just have to hire and empower people that are and know the game. That's what we've been doing with Raul, Sven and Emery.

You said Josh is a football man. Kindly detail his experience outside being Stans son

[Power n Glory]

You said Josh is a football man. Kindly detail his experience outside being Stans son

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/06/arsenal-legend-thierry-henry-josh-kroenkes-preferred-candidate/

He's a big fan of Thierry Henry and reports say both Josh and Henry are close or have some form of a relationship. No idea how close but it was supposed to be Josh that wanted Henry back at the club coaching. He's supposed to be the one with more knowledge on the sport. He's not even 40 yet and more of an athlete than his father.

But again, name the owners with football experience and interests outside of the clubs they own. Some of these owners have no other business related to sports.

[I am invisible]

I’m really not bothered if Stan stays in the background and keeps his hands in his pockets, tbh, as long as he doesn’t plunder us too badly with dividend pay outs and management fees - more than happy to earn what we spend (which is far from insignificant) as long as we’re left free to spend what we earn...

[Özim]

Still no Ramsey contract, are we going to hold onto this guy until he he's able to go on a free, surely we've learnt our lesson from previous experiences. Sad thing is even if we sold him now we won't be able to spend the money on the team.

Pretty disappointed with how the club has handled this situation, poor show, this should have been sorted weeks ago one way or the other. We don't seem to have any money to invest in the team (unlike most of the other clubs) and yet we're happy to let another guy run down his contract, the lack of common sense is alarming.

[Power n Glory]

FFS! Stop moaning. It's match day and a new start to the season. How are you waking up with something complain about today?

[Özim]

Got no expectations of this season, it's free season, it's an observation however that we've chosen not to learn from previous mistakes, it's fair enough to comment on us wasting money again when we're spending peanuts because we don't have much of a budget.

Don't personally think Emery has received enough support from the club, when you employ somebody you either back them or you don't, if you believe in a manager you usually do the former, bit like the Leno situation really if he doesn't play today.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmkexjnW4AMfCzl.jpg

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Marketing: Sanchez, Pavon, Rivera, Raul, Morientes, De La Red, Amavisca, Arbeloa, Victor, Sanz, Makelele.

Obviously not lining up in that order.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-0 still.

Losing 1-2 from the first leg.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We won 5-3 on pelanties. :lol:

I imagine that means we won the tie overall. :shrug:

[Letters]

Wenger :bow: :unsure:

[Penguin]

Cygan :lol:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

6 Arsenal legends there at most.

[Letters]

6 Arsenal legends there at most.

Seaman, Winterburn, Parlour and Pires, definitely.
The others not so much.

[Power n Glory]

No Gilberto, Rosicky or Lehmann?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I'd understand the arguments for all 3 but don't consider Rosicky a legend per se (as much as I hate to admit it).

Gilberto and Lehmann I can objectively conceive the argument for but hearing Robbie on AFTV say Eboue was a legend made me queasy.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Was also bemused that they told Kanu they have enough players for it.....!?

WTF!??

[Marc Overmars]

Scraping the barrel really. Upson? Sukur??

Though they had to fill a team somehow and what can you do if most of the real legends are unavailable. I went to the game against Milan legends 2 years ago and couldn’t believe Justin Hoyte was involved. Even he must have felt slightly embarrassed to have been invited to play.

Maybe they should just call them an Arsenal XI in the future rather than legends. :lol:

[Letters]

No Gilberto, Rosicky or Lehmann?

Oh. Tbh I missed the subs, I was looking at the starting 11

Number one is Perry Groves
Number two is Perry Groves

:dance:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Scraping the barrel really. Upson? Sukur??

Though they had to fill a team somehow and what can you do if most of the real legends are unavailable. I went to the game against Milan legends 2 years ago and couldn’t believe Justin Hoyte was involved. Even he must have felt slightly embarrassed to have been invited to play.

Maybe they should just call them an Arsenal XI in the future rather than legends. :lol:

That's actually not a bad shout...but they can't monetise 'Arsenal XI' that as much, which in this case I'll personally say is fair enough as it is for charity....though you do want to know what you're paying for.

Didn't think the Real legends were all that legendary neither.

[GP]

The 'Legends' tag is always used pretty loosely.

If you want to limit it to actual legends you'd never put a team out.

[Letters]

The 'Legends' tag is always used pretty loosely.

If you want to limit it to actual legends you'd never put a team out.

Charlie George would probably get a game if his knees still work.

[AFC Leveller]

Xhaka stats since last season:

Fouls committed: 67 (1st)
Bookings: 13 (1st)
Dribbled past: 47 (1st)
Tackles lost: 24 (1st)

[dazthegooner]

Well at least he's consistantly bad! :)

[Mac76]

Xhaka stats since last season:

Fouls committed: 67 (1st)
Bookings: 13 (1st)
Dribbled past: 47 (1st)
Tackles lost: 24 (1st)

Compared with who, the rest of the squad or the whole PL?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Xhaka stats since last season:

Fouls committed: 67 (1st)
Bookings: 13 (1st)
Dribbled past: 47 (1st)
Tackles lost: 24 (1st)

I doubt the time frame is from that long ago. :ninja:

In fairness I thought he was quite good last night against England, for the first half at least.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

No Newcastle thread? Everybody enjoying the international break too much!

[Mac76]

Nelson scored for Hoffenheim :)

but they lost :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45536914

[Marc Overmars]

Had no idea he was even loaned out.

[AFC Leveller]

According to Arseblog, Gazidis has agreed to join Milan.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bye.

[Marc Overmars]

Gazidis has gone. It’s official.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/club-names-new-leaders-ivan-heads-italy

Raul Sanllehi and Vinai Venkatesham to take charge.

[SMatthews]

Won’t make the slightest bit of difference. Just another suit that can be replaced.

[Mac76]

Well maybe he was a suit but i think even Ivan gave an impression of wanting to preserve the club and get rid of Wenger, though he's left ua with Emery and these guys which i really don't know if it's a good thing yet...

[GP]

Well maybe he was a suit but i think even Ivan gave an impression of wanting to preserve the club and get rid of Wenger, though he's left ua with Emery and these guys which i really don't know if it's a good thing yet...

Gazidis hid behind Wenger for years. Now he's gone, he doesn't have that luxury.

This will make no difference.

[SMatthews]

Well maybe he was a suit but i think even Ivan gave an impression of wanting to preserve the club and get rid of Wenger, though he's left ua with Emery and these guys which i really don't know if it's a good thing yet...

Course he did, that was his job. Another guy comes in and does the same. The only reason people think this means anything is because it’s out in the public domain and it’s ‘news’. Remember, we all thought Dein was a good guy then he sold us out to Kroenke for his own gain.

[GP]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/1b/f3/b61bf379584d64bf67aa73aed8a685ee.jpg

[Özim]

No great loss, hasn't impressed since he arrived, don't think he's moved the club forward (made plenty of empty claims though), don't think our commercial deals are all that and he was answering to Wenger for years (which really made him look bad IMO). Also wanted to bring in Arteta as manager and didn't even try and employ a top class manager when the chance came.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Does anybody know the official criteria for buying family enclosure tickets?

[Marc Overmars]

I'm guessing you need to be buying with a Junior Gunner to be eligible. So an adult and child. Those are the cheapest seats in the ground and always sell out during the Silver sale period.

[Power n Glory]

Gazidis hid behind Wenger for years. Now he's gone, he doesn't have that luxury.

This will make no difference.

Going to AC Milan isn’t exactly a great hiding spot. He must have been doing something right to get that job. Remember, Wenger is still unemployed.

Piss poor timing to leave. Would have preferred for him to have stayed so he could receive the stick or praise depending on the outcome of this new Arsenal era.

[Özim]

Odd that he would leave now, now that Wenger has been ousted, but apparently Milan were paying a million more so maybe the money was the deciding factor.

I don't think he's much good anyway, if you look at where we are compared to where we were when he arrived there's really not a lot of difference, we might actually be worse off in fact, if he didn't have any control as some suspect why didn't he leave, probably because of the money, didn't he get a pay rise whilst with us.

Aren't AC Milan owned by an American group anyway, makes sense they'd go for him as he worked in America before he came to Arsenal, they probably knew him.

[Power n Glory]

Odd that he would leave now, now that Wenger has been ousted, but apparently Milan were paying a million more so maybe the money was the deciding factor.

I don't think he's much good anyway, if you look at where we are compared to where we were when he arrived there's really not a lot of difference, we might actually be worse off in fact, if he didn't have any control as some suspect why didn't he leave, probably because of the money, didn't he get a pay rise whilst with us.

Aren't AC Milan owned by an American group anyway, makes sense they'd go for him as he worked in America before he came to Arsenal, they probably knew him.

You're judging him on our league position?

[Özim]

You're judging him on our league position?

Partly, but also with the commercial side which is OK but not great, the other thing of course is his empty words about challenging etc etc.

When we had Dein he clearly brought something to the table, he had contacts, ambition and would get involved in bringing players in and would encourage the manager to sign players, Gazidis didn't have any of that and IMO didn't achieve a lot, for a guy in that position to accept being in the managers shadow for so long doesn't sit well with me either to be honest.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I'm guessing you need to be buying with a Junior Gunner to be eligible. So an adult and child. Those are the cheapest seats in the ground and always sell out during the Silver sale period.

They are actually the only ones left for the Liverpool game, but clearly I've left it too long. I can go on a friends season ticket but the face value was 127 quid!?? No thanks!

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Also why is postage charge forced upon you when you buy a ticket!?

[Power n Glory]

Partly, but also with the commercial side which is OK but not great, the other thing of course is his empty words about challenging etc etc.

When we had Dein he clearly brought something to the table, he had contacts, ambition and would get involved in bringing players in and would encourage the manager to sign players, Gazidis didn't have any of that and IMO didn't achieve a lot, for a guy in that position to accept being in the managers shadow for so long doesn't sit well with me either to be honest.

Dein's answer to dealing with the arrival of Abramovich and his millions was to bring Stan Kroenke to the table. Worth remembering that since your so against Kroenke's ownership.

Gazidis didn't have the same sort of relationship with Wenger compared to Dein, but I'd argue we signed more ready made quality players under Gazidis but Wenger lost his touch with development and couldn't hang with the Pre competition.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Also...first time I've used the new seat viewer. Makes the stadium look very pretty when empty!

[Marc Overmars]

Also why is postage charge forced upon you when you buy a ticket!?

I was being charged postage once when I ordered some tickets that were for print at home. I contacted them and they said that shouldn't be the case and it was some sort of error on their part. They soon corrected it.

Obviously if they're sending paper tickets then postage will apply though.

[Özim]

Dein's answer to dealing with the arrival of Abramovich and his millions was to bring Stan Kroenke to the table. Worth remembering that since your so against Kroenke's ownership.

Gazidis didn't have the same sort of relationship with Wenger compared to Dein, but I'd argue we signed more ready made quality players under Gazidis but Wenger lost his touch with development and couldn't hang with the Pre competition.

Yes but had he not been ousted by the other lot things may well have been very different as he was a visionnary and his relationship with Kroenke probably would have meant a different policy, you can blame Hill-Wood and co for what has happened with Kroenke, they made him top dog and kept the Russian off the board.

We signed a fair few top quality players with Dein, difference though is that we didn't sell our top players, the only reason we had to spend in latter years partly due to sale of top players and fan pressure.

Gazidis hasn't done a good job, look where the club are now compared to when he arrived, we're a mess, on top of that rather than looking for a top coach he was looking at losers like Arteta and in the end settled for Emery who whilst decent is not an elite coach and was sacked by his last club.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I was being charged postage once when I ordered some tickets that were for print at home. I contacted them and they said that shouldn't be the case and it was some sort of error on their part. They soon corrected it.

Obviously if they're sending paper tickets then postage will apply though.

It automatically added it and there was nowhere to deselect it and I couldn't be arsed to start the whole bloody thing again in my lunch break.

[Power n Glory]

Yes but had he not been ousted by the other lot things may well have been very different as he was a visionnary and his relationship with Kroenke probably would have meant a different policy, you can blame Hill-Wood and co for what has happened with Kroenke, they made him top dog and kept the Russian off the board.

We signed a fair few top quality players with Dein, difference though is that we didn't sell our top players, the only reason we had to spend in latter years partly due to sale of top players and fan pressure.

Gazidis hasn't done a good job, look where the club are now compared to when he arrived, we're a mess, on top of that rather than looking for a top coach he was looking at losers like Arteta and in the end settled for Emery who whilst decent is not an elite coach and was sacked by his last club.

What are you talking about? We sold off the majority of invincible squad within a couple of seasons. We didn't retain any of them for future coaching roles under Dein, had that silly 30+ 1 year contract rule under Dein. Started project youth under Dein...it was also Dein that was negotiating contracts which is what fucked things up with Ashley Cole. Vieira was complaining about the lack of top quality signings whilst Dein was around and left for Juve. We didn't replace Vieira. We decided on blooding Cesc and Flamini in the middle of the pitch. We struggled badly. In fact, we lost Edu not too long after losing Vieira.

We had our problems whilst Dein was still here. It's not as if Dein disappeared from Arsenal as well. I'm sure he and Arsene remained friends and talked football. Where was his influence on Wenger then?

[Özim]

What are you talking about? We sold off the majority of invincible squad within a couple of seasons. We didn't retain any of them for future coaching roles under Dein, had that silly 30+ 1 year contract rule under Dein. Started project youth under Dein...it was also Dein that was negotiating contracts which is what fucked things up with Ashley Cole. Vieira was complaining about the lack of top quality signings whilst Dein was around and left for Juve. We didn't replace Vieira. We decided on blooding Cesc and Flamini in the middle of the pitch. We struggled badly. In fact, we lost Edu not too long after losing Vieira.

We had our problems whilst Dein was still here. It's not as if Dein disappeared from Arsenal as well. I'm sure he and Arsene remained friends and talked football. Where was his influence on Wenger then?

We chose to sell those players, they weren't top players that wanted out like Van Persie, Nasri etc other than Cole of course. The 1 year thing was Wengers idea, Dein didn't involve himself in everything Wenger did otherwise Wenger wouldn't have been happy, so he had to give him some slack.

Vieira left for Juve, but we wanted to sell him, we could have kept hold of him if we'd wanted to like we did when Real wanted him, the Juve move was our idea (Vieira stated as much I beilieve, he agreed to it when he realised the club no longer wanted him).

Dein wasn't perfect but we wont stuff with him there, what has Gazidis actually done, not much from what I can see, since he's been there the club have regressed both on and off the pitch, he's the one that settled for 4th place and never pushed to get Wenger to perform better after all.

IMO he was a massive flop and I'm happy he's left, he's no great loss, hopefully the new guy doing the role now will do a much better job.

[Power n Glory]

We chose to sell those players, they weren't top players that wanted out like Van Persie, Nasri etc other than Cole of course. The 1 year thing was Wengers idea, Dein didn't involve himself in everything Wenger did otherwise Wenger wouldn't have been happy, so he had to give him some slack.

Vieira left for Juve, but we wanted to sell him, we could have kept hold of him if we'd wanted to like we did when Real wanted him, the Juve move was our idea (Vieira stated as much I beilieve, he agreed to it when he realised the club no longer wanted him).

Dein wasn't perfect but we wont stuff with him there, what has Gazidis actually done, not much from what I can see, since he's been there the club have regressed both on and off the pitch, he's the one that settled for 4th place and never pushed to get Wenger to perform better after all.

IMO he was a massive flop and I'm happy he's left, he's no great loss, hopefully the new guy doing the role now will do a much better job.

You actually believe that? In fact, let’s run with it. We sold Vieira and Edu in the same season and replaced them with who? We sold Vieira to Juve and did that strengthen us?

[Özim]

You actually believe that? In fact, let’s run with it. We sold Vieira and Edu in the same season and replaced them with who? We sold Vieira to Juve and did that strengthen us?

Yes I do, in fact Vieria alluded to this saying he was happy then he heard we'd accepted an offer from Juve and once he heard the club wanted to let him go he decided he should move on.

It was always Wengers' plan to build some sort of super youth team, we were never going to replace him, the replacement was Cesc.

I'm not saying it strenghtened us, I didn't agree with it and would have never wanted to do this, but Wenger saw it differently as we can see from his obsession with signing young players and putting them in the 1st team in subsequent years, he always maintained they were close to delivering success, he was wrong of course, but that was clear to all but him.

We're moving away from the subject of Gazidis though, IMO he was a failure, a year ago most fans would have wanted him out, sure Wenger went and there were a few changes, but it was alll too little too late for me, he sat there for years accepting mediocrity and positively encouraged it, all whilst picking his paycheck, he wasn't proactive and never made any obvious changes, commercially some of our deals were also questionnable over the years with out rivals dwarfing these.

Gazidis for me allowed Wenger to get away with underperforming, he never created a fuss and tried to push him, he was just a yes man agreeing with Wenger on everything up until the very end, despite it being clear we were nowhere near good enough or ambitious enough.

I can't say I'm sorry to see him go, I'd rather see someone more proactive and hungrier for success on the field, for me Gazidis was all talk, good luck to Milan that's all I can say.

[Power n Glory]

Yes I do, in fact Vieria alluded to this saying he was happy then he heard we'd accepted an offer from Juve and once he heard the club wanted to let him go he decided he should move on.

It was always Wengers' plan to build some sort of super youth team, we were never going to replace him, the replacement was Cesc.

I'm not saying it strenghtened us, I didn't agree with it and would have never wanted to do this, but Wenger saw it differently as we can see from his obsession with signing young players and putting them in the 1st team in subsequent years, he always maintained they were close to delivering success, he was wrong of course, but that was clear to all but him.

We're moving away from the subject of Gazidis though, IMO he was a failure, a year ago most fans would have wanted him out, sure Wenger went and there were a few changes, but it was alll too little too late for me, he sat there for years accepting mediocrity and positively encouraged it, all whilst picking his paycheck, he wasn't proactive and never made any obvious changes, commercially some of our deals were also questionnable over the years with out rivals dwarfing these.

Gazidis for me allowed Wenger to get away with underperforming, he never created a fuss and tried to push him, he was just a yes man agreeing with Wenger on everything up until the very end, despite it being clear we were nowhere near good enough or ambitious enough.

I can't say I'm sorry to see him go, I'd rather see someone more proactive and hungrier for success on the field, for me Gazidis was all talk, good luck to Milan that's all I can say.

I’m not going to argue this all day with you. Project Youth started under Dein. We sold players without adequate replacements under Dein. Also, Dein is a huge Wenger supporter. Do you think he’d have had Wenger sacked? We’ll never know. But what we do know, Dein left in April 2007. After the Invincible season we finished 2nd, 4th and 4th before Dein was kicked off the Board. The path was set and under investment had already kicked in. Saying Wenger had his mind set on project youth despite dropping down the table just proves that Dein was complicit and couldn’t or wouldn’t convince Wenger to invest in better players like Vieira had already warned. Biggest names we signed after the Invincible season were Rosicky and Gallas.

[Özim]

I’m not going to argue this all day with you. Project Youth started under Dein. We sold players without adequate replacements under Dein. Also, Dein is a huge Wenger supporter. Do you think he’d have had Wenger sacked? We’ll never know. But what we do know, Dein left in April 2007. After the Invincible season we finished 2nd, 4th and 4th before Dein was kicked off the Board. The path was set and under investment had already kicked in. Saying Wenger had his mind set on project youth despite dropping down the table just proves that Dein was complicit and couldn’t or wouldn’t convince Wenger to invest in better players like Vieira had already warned. Biggest names we signed after the Invincible season were Rosicky and Gallas.

There's no argument really, history tells us Dein achieved a lot more in his time with us than Gazidis ever did, we won titles, cup, european trophies the lot, we also had some of the best players we ever had (we kicked it off by signing Bergkamp).

I'm not sure if Dein would have put up with underperforming for so long, or whether he would have had a word with Wenger, encouraged him to sign some better players and gone and done it, Gazidis certainly didn't.

[Globalgunner]

Zim not sure youre being entirely fair to Gazidis. Even though we could reasonably castigate him for staying mute while Wenger reigned supreme, it must be clearly obvious that Kroenke was the one fixated with Wenger. i am pretty sure Gazidis could read the tea leaves of our downward spiral at least 5 years ago, but when it seemed like we had reached a nadir in 2014. Wenger popped up with an FA cup win. Maybe in Kroenke`s eyes that was a big deal. I was ambivalent as many were towards that win against Hull as we all knew Wenger would milk it for all it was worth. Gazidis was one of the best paid CEO`s in the league, why would he jump ship if another better offer was not on the table?

This is not a stout defence of Ivan but you and I would have probably done the same, bide our time. However, at this point of time I wouldnt like him have dumped us for the floundering Rossoneri at the crescendo of a long struggle against Wenger. Im seriously of the thinking that there is no palpable lifestyle difference if you have 20m or 50m in the bank, For that you need to jump into triple digits. Why jump into the unknown because a little more money and share options were on the table? Milan are currently worth less than most PL teams, they are that bad.

On the other hand he may have become sick of genuflecting respectfully before Kroenke and this was an opportunity to stick it to him after all those years of stiffing him in favour of Wenger. That I can relate to.

[Özim]

Zim not sure youre being entirely fair to Gazidis. Even though we could reasonably castigate him for staying mute while Wenger reigned supreme, it must be clearly obvious that Kroenke was the one fixated with Wenger. i am pretty sure Gazidis could read the tea leaves of our downward spiral at least 5 years ago, but when it seemed like we had reached a nadir in 2014. Wenger popped up with an FA cup win. Maybe in Kroenke`s eyes that was a big deal. I was ambivalent as many were towards that win against Hull as we all knew Wenger would milk it for all it was worth. Gazidis was one of the best paid CEO`s in the league, why would he jump ship if another better offer was not on the table?

This is not a stout defence of Ivan but you and I would have probably done the same, bide our time. However, at this point of time I wouldnt like him have dumped us for the floundering Rossoneri at the crescendo of a long struggle against Wenger. Im seriously of the thinking that there is no palpable lifestyle difference if you have 20m or 50m in the bank, For that you need to jump into triple digits. Why jump into the unknown because a little more money and share options were on the table? Milan are currently worth less than most PL teams, they are that bad.

On the other hand he may have become sick of genuflecting respectfully before Kroenke and this was an opportunity to stick it to him after all those years of stiffing him in favour of Wenger. That I can relate to.

I don't disagree, thing is though you'd think if that was the case he'd have moved on, he didn't though he stayed, doesn't really paint a great picture of him to be honest, suggests he's not that interested in making a difference as long as he gets paid.

For me though I'm just looking at what he's done and IMO that's precious little, so he got paid a stackload and got hefty payrises for making no noteable difference and now he (if you believe he didn't support Wenger, note when he quick he thanked Wenger so this may not be as clear cut as we think and he was always the first one to back him when he was there - he didn't have to if he disagreed with him) has decided to move on as soon as he has a chance to make changes.

I don't and never rated the guy, he came from the MLS, did next to nothing and then moved on once the spotlight was firmly put on him, poor show.

[Power n Glory]

There's no argument really, history tells us Dein achieved a lot more in his time with us than Gazidis ever did, we won titles, cup, european trophies the lot, we also had some of the best players we ever had (we kicked it off by signing Bergkamp).

I'm not sure if Dein would have put up with underperforming for so long, or whether he would have had a word with Wenger, encouraged him to sign some better players and gone and done it, Gazidis certainly didn't.

You're measuring what was done on the pitch and much of what was done should be credited to Wenger and what he brought to the club. I’ll give credit to Dein for being able to spot a good manager and having a passion for Arsenal. Can’t fault him for that.

But if we’re talking about the stuff that falls under his remit such as the sponsorship deals and commercial aspect, we were dreadful.

We were signed up and tied into to one of the crappiest kit sponsorship deals in the league with that Nike deal. That deal hampered our earning potential and at a time where we were at the height of our success with players.

Another sponsorship deal that was a joke. Who signed off on the Sega Dreamcast sponsorship deal? :lol: Would love to get the information on how much they were paying, but Sega died as a company not to long after. Their pockets weren’t deep at all. We also had that crappy O2 deal. Our recent sponsorship deals has enabled us to sign players like Ozil, Cech, Sanchez, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Mkhitryan and dish out bigger contracts. It’s no competition on that front.

Also, our internal infrastructure. It was Wenger’s idea to build a first class training ground and it was Wenger’s idea to change the diets of our players. That’s where the new ideas stopped. We stopped developing our internal facilities and w’ve only just recently caught up with other clubs. How we scout, medical staff and facilities, the works…we were miles behind other clubs for far too long and were ran like a family business.

We had some real out of touch people at the club. Best intentions…some…but damn. I mean these guys were banking on us selling flats to help fund our transfers! There was no foresight, great planning or reaction to how things changed in football. Dein is included in that mess. I can’t take anything away from him during the good times, but he wasn’t prepared for the change in football. None of them were and we’ve had to adapt quickly.

[Marc Overmars]

In fairness the Nike deal was of it's time. This was before the game was awash with giant commercial deals, TV money, oligarch's and stupidly expensive tickets. It was only really United who could command a premium for their brand and that's why they were untouchable for so long. I think it was a stroke of bad luck that everything exploded at the height of our success and the stadium move.

Being tied down for so long though did show a lack of foresight, granted.

The game has changed so much from Dein's day to Gazidis', it's apples and oranges.

[Özim]

You're measuring what was done on the pitch and much of what was done should be credited to Wenger and what he brought to the club. I’ll give credit to Dein for being able to spot a good manager and having a passion for Arsenal. Can’t fault him for that.

But if we’re talking about the stuff that falls under his remit such as the sponsorship deals and commercial aspect, we were dreadful.

We were signed up and tied into to one of the crappiest kit sponsorship deals in the league with that Nike deal. That deal hampered our earning potential and at a time where we were at the height of our success with players.

Another sponsorship deal that was a joke. Who signed off on the Sega Dreamcast sponsorship deal? :lol: Would love to get the information on how much they were paying, but Sega died as a company not to long after. Their pockets weren’t deep at all. We also had that crappy O2 deal. Our recent sponsorship deals has enabled us to sign players like Ozil, Cech, Sanchez, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Mkhitryan and dish out bigger contracts. It’s no competition on that front.

Also, our internal infrastructure. It was Wenger’s idea to build a first class training ground and it was Wenger’s idea to change the diets of our players. That’s where the new ideas stopped. We stopped developing our internal facilities and w’ve only just recently caught up with other clubs. How we scout, medical staff and facilities, the works…we were miles behind other clubs for far too long and were ran like a family business.

We had some real out of touch people at the club. Best intentions…some…but damn. I mean these guys were banking on us selling flats to help fund our transfers! There was no foresight, great planning or reaction to how things changed in football. Dein is included in that mess. I can’t take anything away from him during the good times, but he wasn’t prepared for the change in football. None of them were and we’ve had to adapt quickly.

If you want to know what Dein did, read this, it's a whole lot more than Gazidis ever did, the guy actually invested is own money into the club, he didn't just take:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dein#Role_at_Arsenal

As MO said the deal was a deal made in a time when big deals weren't the norm, yes mistakes were made in hindsight but the guy did a hell of a lot for Arsenal. Unfortunately some of the other guys hindered our progress and it's cost us in the longer term but the damage has really been done mostly since Dein left, in 2007 our stock was still very high.

As for the players mentioned, a lot fo them actually came about through player sales, most of the money spent on those players came from transfer money we brought in from selling players, I'm not sure how much the commercial deals really played a part, but regardless our deals whilst Gazidis has been here have been nothing to ride home about.

In reality though you can't compare a guy who did so much for Arsenal and gave a lot and actually invested with a guy who just took never put any of his own money in and oversaw some of the worst times on the pitch in recent history.

As for Wenger, it's been proven what happens when he's is left to his own devices(which is what Gazidis seemed to do) without someone like Dein guiding him so we I don't need to bring him into it.

[Power n Glory]

If you want to know what Dein did, read this, it's a whole lot more than Gazidis ever did, the guy actually invested is own money into the club, he didn't just take:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dein#Role_at_Arsenal

As MO said the deal was a deal made in a time when big deals weren't the norm, yes mistakes were made in hindsight but the guy did a hell of a lot for Arsenal. Unfortunately some of the other guys hindered our progress and it's cost us in the longer term but the damage has really been done mostly since Dein left, in 2007 our stock was still very high.

As for the players mentioned, a lot fo them actually came about through player sales, most of the money spent on those players came from transfer money we brought in from selling players, I'm not sure how much the commercial deals really played a part, but regardless our deals whilst Gazidis has been here have been nothing to ride home about.

In reality though you can't compare a guy who did so much for Arsenal and gave a lot and actually invested with a guy who just took never put any of his own money in and oversaw some of the worst times on the pitch in recent history.

:lol: Providing a wiki link ....is that what it's come to? I know about Dein and what he did for the players by getting them their first major pay rise. I've argued it here before.

In terms of all the points I've laid out for the sponsorship deals and our infrastructure, planning and foresight...you haven't said anything because you can't.

[Özim]

:lol: Providing a wiki link ....is that what it's come to? I know about Dein and what he did for the players by getting them their first major pay rise. I've argued it here before.

In terms of all the points I've laid out for the sponsorship deals and our infrastructure, planning and foresight...you haven't said anything because you can't.

It just shows what he did as you seem to be questioning (if you know why are you debating it?) what he did compared to what Gazidis did, there's no real comparison really, he invested in the club, had a stadium built, signed numerous top players, made sure the club was a success on the pitch and the club is what it is today because of him, he features heavly in Arsenals' history and in very scuessful periods for the club, Gazidis won't.

As I said he was here until 2007, planning of the team was down to the manager really, he wanted to follow the youth route and thought it would be a success and Dein trusted in him (wrongly so, but like I said he did make mistakes), the sponsorship dea with Nike was good at the time, a time with when we needed money for the stadium, in hindsight it wasn't good but it's easy to look back and say that, at the time there weren't many massive deals.

He made mistakes but what he did do heavily outweighed his mistakes, Gazidis did previous little and now he's left, I'm not really sure why you're debating this as the reality is they're not comparable, Gazidis has been seen as doing a poor job for years up until about 6 months to a year ago, most aren't sorry to see him go which tells you all you need to know.

I'm excited to see what the future holds without Gazidis, IMO it's good news, no more Wenger, no more Gazidis, we're 2/3 of the way there now, getting rid of those that have held us back for so long.

[Power n Glory]

In fairness the Nike deal was of it's time. This was before the game was awash with giant commercial deals, TV money, oligarch's and stupidly expensive tickets. It was only really United who could command a premium for their brand and that's why they were untouchable for so long. I think it was a stroke of bad luck that everything exploded at the height of our success and the stadium move.

Being tied down for so long though did show a lack of foresight, granted.

The game has changed so much from Dein's day to Gazidis', it's apples and oranges.

From what I remember, the Nike deal we signed along with the other sponsorship deals put us behind Spurs and Liverpool in terms of sponsorship revenue. It wasn't just bad compared to United. Spurs and Liverpool would out spend us on a regular basis. We just had a better manager who knew the transfer market.

Also, we didn't do pre season tours to try and grow our overseas fanbase. We were well behind in our thinking and strategy. But yes, apples and oranges. I don't doubt Dein's love for the club and he did well in the past, but Gazidis stepped into a situation where the game had changed dramatically. Hate to start talking politics, but it's like when people were saying Labour/Gordon Brown didn't fix the roof whilst the sun was shining.

[Mac76]

Hate to start talking politics, but it's like when people were saying Labour/Gordon Brown didn't fix the roof whilst the sun was shining.

It was Cameron who said that, the person who then went and blew up the whole bloody building

[Power n Glory]

It was Cameron who said that, the person who then went and blew up the whole bloody building

We've been spoilt for choices.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't remember what other clubs commercial streams were like back then but for us it was likely the stadium project that really grounded us financially, regardless of commercial activity. I mean look at our transfer business after the 2002 title win, penny pinching doesn't even begin to describe it. Thankfully Wenger was still a good enough coach to cope and we already had some worldies to keep us going.

But yeah, different men for different times. I don't really have much against Gazidis, I think he's done relatively well on the commercial side. Dein I believe was more closely involved with the team, he had a lot of personal relationships with the players and was more of a confidant for Wenger, where as Gazidis was strictly business.

[Power n Glory]

I remember when I heard about how bad our kit sponsorship deal was and how long we were tied into to it. It was part of why they said we needed a bigger stadium because our sponsorship deals were crap and we were tied into the Nike one for a long time.

Dein experienced more success on the pitch. Ivan more with our current infrastructure. It looks like we have Raul and some other guy from the commercial deal department to replace Ivan so hopefully we get the best of both worlds.

[Özim]

This guy has it spot on about Gazidis and his legacy, at 7:09 on the video!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpqY7Rbm3jo

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Vinai Venkatesham running Arsenal. :bow:

If only the Asian Clique™ were still here to see this.

For what they were and not what they became. :rose:

[fakeyank]

Vinai Venkatesham running Arsenal. :bow:

If only the Asian Clique™ were still here to see this.

For what they were and not what they became. :rose:

I am still here bruh..

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Anybody catch the recent football weekly podcast? Seemed to be some suggestion from Sid Lowe (I think it was) who did an extensive interview with Santi Cazorla. Sid Lowe seemed to suggest that Cazorla was at least a little annoyed at Arsenal's handling of the situation.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Podcast below if anybody is interested on around 50 minute mark but its referring to a piece written by Sid Lowe published recently with Santi.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/audio/2018/sep/17/spurs-suffer-spitting-in-serie-a-and-corner-umbrellas-football-weekly

[Power n Glory]

Anybody catch the recent football weekly podcast? Seemed to be some suggestion from Sid Lowe (I think it was) who did an extensive interview with Santi Cazorla. Sid Lowe seemed to suggest that Cazorla was at least a little annoyed at Arsenal's handling of the situation.

Are you talking about Cazorla's injury?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Yeah.

[Power n Glory]

I read what Cazorla had to go through and it sounds like a case of incompetence. Once again, one our players has to go abroad to get the correct diagnosis and treatment.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

A bit embarrassing to think had he just been dealt with over there in the first place, he might have been still playing for us.

I thought we were kind of over this sort of thing.... but I suppose his was a special case.

[Letters]

I am still here bruh..

I don't think it's still a clique if there's just one of you :hug:

[GP]

Ramsey is leaving.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45663651

[Letters]

:wave:

[Özim]

Most people could have predicted that last summer, we messed up big time should have just sold him to anyone to get some money, we should have given him a deadline and then if he hadn't signed got rid, I don't understand why this club never learns its lesson, but then it was Gazidis in charge of this and the guy has made a pigs ear of a lot of stuff and this is yet another thing, hopefully it will improve now he's going.

Now we're again going to miss out on some cash, it wouldn't be a big deal but given what we spent last summer it is a bigger deal as we don't seem to be flush with money for transfers.

I wouldn't play the guy again now.

[Letters]

It is hard to take these c**** seriously these days. Ramsey hasn't been pulling up over the trees of late and suddenly his billion pounds a week, or whatever they're offering him, isn't good enough.
Well, you know what, fuck off then.
He's hardly going to have Real Madrid or Barca scrabbling over his signature, he's going to end up at a mid-table club at best. Fuck him.

[Power n Glory]

Starting for so many games has been a waste of time. He should be dropped from the squad from here on until we can sell him in January.

[SMatthews]

It is hard to take these c**** seriously these days. Ramsey hasn't been pulling up over the trees of late and suddenly his billion pounds a week, or whatever they're offering him, isn't good enough.
Well, you know what, fuck off then.
He's hardly going to have Real Madrid or Barca scrabbling over his signature, he's going to end up at a mid-table club at best. Fuck him.

They’ve spent a lot recently but if they have the dosh I can see Klopp wanting his energy in the team. Maybe even Utd as a way to appease Maureen after the chairman pulled the plug on summer transfers. Perhaps even Chelsea, who were suggested during the summer. But he won’t be missed.

[Letters]

They’ve spent a lot recently but if they have the dosh I can see Klopp wanting his energy in the team. Maybe even Utd as a way to appease Maureen after the chairman pulled the plug on summer transfers. Perhaps even Chelsea, who were suggested during the summer. But he won’t be missed.

I'd be really surprised. I don't think he'd get into any of their teams.

[fakeyank]

I wouldn't play the guy again now.

:gp:

He sucks anyway.

[Özim]

I'm not a big fan of the guy, he's been a bit of a one season wonder (we've had a few of those over the years), IMO he doesn't fit in with the new style and has grown up under Wenger and playing a certain way which isn't a good thing.

I'm not fussed about losing him, just think we should have sold him for something when we got the chance, any money added to the transfer fund is welcome and losing another player for nothing or next to nothing is pretty disappointing.

Hopefully Emery cuts him out now, it should be what happens as he's the past and won't be part of our future, whether it does or not we'll find out.

[dazthegooner]

Don't see what all the fuss is about he has one good game gets injured for a month then demands more money on that performance...

[Marc Overmars]

Surely it has become untenable to keep on starting him now. At least with Alexis he was still contributing despite having one foot out the door.

Ramsey has been useless. He should certainly be sold in January.

Interesting that Ornstein says we pulled out, rather him reject our offer. Happy we haven't given in to whatever silly demands he might have had. You're not that good, mate. :wave:

[GP]

Interestingly, Ornstein says a 4 year deal was agreed, but we withdrew the offer.

Emery clearly not impressed.

[Marc Overmars]

Gives weight to the notion that he is giving every existing player a chance before shipping them out.

Unai. :bow:

[dazthegooner]

Gives weight to the notion that he is giving every existing player a chance before shipping them out.

Unai. :bow:

Lets hope so :pray:

[Penguin]

I'm glad this has been put to bed. Honestly I can't see where he fits into the team. Defensively he's a liability if he plays as one of the two deep midfielders, and he's not even as good as Guendouzi or Torreira at passing and controlling the midfield. And he's not good enough technically to play further forward where he has been this season. he ruins a lot of good attacks and his finishing isn't even that good.

[I am invisible]

Honestly thought he’d be a perfect fit for the kind of shape and high pressing game and that Emery wants us to adopt - as it is though, I don’t think I’d even notice his absence at the moment. (Not for the worse, anyway.)

Totally agree with the consensus on here - if the contract offer is dead then he needs to be out of contention for selection unless there’s no other options. Makes our life considerably simpler in many ways and brings us one step closer to knowing what our best XI will be for the year...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It is hard to take these c**** seriously these days. Ramsey hasn't been pulling up over the trees of late and suddenly his billion pounds a week, or whatever they're offering him, isn't good enough.
Well, you know what, fuck off then.
He's hardly going to have Real Madrid or Barca scrabbling over his signature, he's going to end up at a mid-table club at best. Fuck him.

Has somebody hacked letters' account?

[Letters]

I'm channelling NQ.
Nah, I'm just a bit sick of these entitled mercenary twats.

[SMatthews]

Don’t see the difference between earning 100k and three times that amount myself. It’s all ridiculous.

As long as Ramsey shows the right attitude, which I imagine he will, he’ll still be picked I imagine. If not for the PL he will for the CC and EL as the squad isn’t that deep. Plus, dumping him in the reserves is not realistic. That’s not how you manage a group of people, because that’s the sort of move that can affect morale badly. It’s a nice idea in theory, but unrealistic.

[Letters]

I understand it in as much as I understand that people in any career feel they should be earning market rate for their skills.
I don't in my job because in the public sector but it's my choice to stay there, there are certain good things about my job so like any career decision you weigh up the pros and cons.
What I don't understand is why footballers who haven't been performing suddenly think (and are often given) massive pay rises.

[SMatthews]

I understand it in as much as I understand that people in any career feel they should be earning market rate for their skills.
I don't in my job because in the public sector but it's my choice to stay there, there are certain good things about my job so like any career decision you weigh up the pros and cons.
What I don't understand is why footballers who haven't been performing suddenly think (and are often given) massive pay rises.

Simply because they can. There’s nothing else to it. The game is awash with money, they play for a rich club, so they’ll push for big wages - especially when the club have left themselves in a weakened position as we have again. Seems like we’ve at least found some balls at the last minute though.

[WMUG]

There's also the fact that footballers' careers are 5 times shorter than your average code monkey's. Then again, I doubt Letters is on 20k pw :lol:

[Letters]

There's also the fact that footballers' careers are 5 times shorter than your average code monkey's. Then again, I doubt Letters is on 20k pw :lol:

I don't get out of bed for less than £15k a week <_<
And I've long since stopped being a code monkey.

The short career argument worked when players were on 5 or 10k a week. Now it's 100 or 200k a week...
This is why it costs £60+ to get into the ground.

[GP]

Remember when Roy Keane got that £50k a week contract and we all thought the world had gone mad?

[Letters]

Remember when Roy Keane got that £50k a week contract and we all thought the world had gone mad?

I re-read Fever Pitch a while back and he was lamenting then how crazy it was all getting.
And he was writing about stuff going on over 25 years ago.

:ilt:

[Marc Overmars]

I don't get out of bed for less than £15k a week <_<
And I've long since stopped being a code monkey.

The short career argument worked when players were on 5 or 10k a week. Now it's 100 or 200k a week...
This is why it costs £60+ to get into the ground.

Also the possibilities are endless for when they retire, they could easily earn way above average money by coaching, punditry or even just from sponsorships and endorsements. With that kind of money in the bank as well, they could also keep themselves ticking over with investments. Short career means nothing really.

[Power n Glory]

Gives weight to the notion that he is giving every existing player a chance before shipping them out.

Unai. :bow:

Unai says the contract situation won't change a thing. He says Ramsey will still play a part on Saturday. :doh: What sense does that make?

[Penguin]

The way I see it is that half the squad needs replacing. If we were going to stop playing Ramsey because he doesn't have a future with us he wouldn't be the only one.

We still have to put 11 players out there and win matches. There's no reason to shoot ourselves in the foot by sticking Ramsey in the reserves. We're in four competitions so make use of him until he's gone.

[SMatthews]

The way I see it is that half the squad needs replacing. If we were going to stop playing Ramsey because he doesn't have a future with us he wouldn't be the only one.

We still have to put 11 players out there and win matches. There's no reason to shoot ourselves in the foot by sticking Ramsey in the reserves. We're in four competitions so make use of him until he's gone.

That’s exactly right. Plus, it’s not the 70s anymore. You don’t just drop players who might be leaving into the reserves. That’s a fan fantasy. Ramsey being banished would affect the squad far more than him remaining present. And as you say, our squad isn’t exactly the best so he’s a body that’ll be needed. You use the players available to you while you have them. Managers and fellow players are more than used to these sort of contract issues dragging on. When it becomes a saga then it’s a problem. But Ramsey won’t kick up any fuss and will keep his head down and work.

[Marc Overmars]

Unai says the contract situation won't change a thing. He says Ramsey will still play a part on Saturday. :doh: What sense does that make?

I guess completely alienating a player doesn't work well in practice, it's still in his best interests to perform if he wants to get a good move.

You'd hope he loses this god given right to be starting every game though. :doh:

[Power n Glory]

That’s exactly right. Plus, it’s not the 70s anymore. You don’t just drop players who might be leaving into the reserves. That’s a fan fantasy. Ramsey being banished would affect the squad far more than him remaining present. And as you say, our squad isn’t exactly the best so he’s a body that’ll be needed. You use the players available to you while you have them. Managers and fellow players are more than used to these sort of contract issues dragging on. When it becomes a saga then it’s a problem. But Ramsey won’t kick up any fuss and will keep his head down and work.

Mkhitaryan, Iwobi and even Welbeck are in better form than Ramsey. Ramsey hasn't been playing well for us. It makes no sense to keep these guys out of the starting line up when they're on form but to keep Ramsey starting games, play him into form and to establish a partnership with the front line players only for him to leave in January or the Summer. Senseless.

We're in a rebuilding period and trying to establish a style of play. Bench Ramsey. He should only he starting cup games.

[Power n Glory]

I guess completely alienating a player doesn't work well in practice, it's still in his best interests to perform if he wants to get a good move.

You'd hope he loses this god given right to be starting every game though. :doh:

What is Unai Emery doing? Why would you keep him in the squad when he doesn't contribute much on attack, distribution or defence? Playing Ramsey disrupts so many other players. Just bench him.

[WMUG]

I don't get out of bed for less than £15k a week <_<
And I've long since stopped being a code monkey.

The short career argument worked when players were on 5 or 10k a week. Now it's 100 or 200k a week...
This is why it costs £60+ to get into the ground.

Code monkey, exam salesman, point stands.

[GP]

We should sign this guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizz_Hornkamp

[Letters]

A commentator's dream

"Jizz is all over the place"

:haha:

[GP]

His mum named him after the thing she loves the most.

[Bumble]

His mum named him after the thing she loves the most.

a bit presumptious in these modern times it might have been his dad.

[Letters]

a bit presumptious in these modern times it might have been his dad.

a bit presumptious in these modern times. he might have two mums. Or two dads. One of whom identifies as a mum. Or something.

[GP]

Deal with Adidas is confirmed.

[Marc Overmars]

Puma. :lol:

Bye.

[Mac76]

"worth twice as much as T*******m's current deal with Nike" :haha:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenals-new-300million-adidas-deal-how-does-it-compare-a3956281.html

[Letters]

"worth twice as much as T*******m's current deal with Nike" :haha:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenals-new-300million-adidas-deal-how-does-it-compare-a3956281.html

"No ground, shit fans; No ground shit fans"

Hey, people should sing that during the NLD. Make it happen, those of you who go to games.

[Bumble]

"No ground, shit fans; No ground shit fans"

Hey, people should sing that during the NLD. Make it happen, those of you who go to games.

bit harsh as that would ruin there cup final

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

On tickets.....what's the easiest way (other than tediously checking emails) to check which games you've bought tickets for? I was under the impression there is a place on the website for this?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Ohh...is it just anywhere it says 'reserved tickets' I guess...

[Mac76]

Ohh...is it just anywhere it says 'reserved tickets' I guess...

isn't there a 'your account' section or something?

otherwise it probably is email but that's not that hard if you find a box office message, select it, and then sort your mails by 'from' - but then you know that right...?