Match Reaction vs Sunderland (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Another stunning performance. :scarf:

Well done Alexis for being a bit good.

[Marc Overmars]

Thrilling win.

Yay.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--UWlSt9Kb--/18kzxockunj3bjpg.jpg

[Globalgunner]

Is that dog balling an invisible bitch?

[Niall_Quinn]

Is that dog balling an invisible bitch?

No, he's put in the effort but couldn't deliver.

[Letters]

3 points away from City.
Crisis, what crisis? :cool:

Wenger :bow:

[GP]

Good win. Pretty comfortable really.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Nice to get a win in the league!...lol.

...even enjoyable to see agent Song Bilong's assistance in denying City the points.

[selassie]

Good win, I thought we were going to lose today!

[Master Splinter]

A match forged in the pig pen of the world's filthiest pub. Truly abysmal play all round.

Still, after going ahead, we had numerous chances to kill the game off. Cazorla should have had a hat-trick in the last ten minutes but he was utterly dreadful. Every break broke down with either a pitiful final ball or an embarrassing finish.

Sanchez :bow:. What a man.

Mannone :bow:.

Kevin Friend was scandalous. Book every Arsenal player for their first foul or book them for a collision. Book Sunderland players after numerous fouls and let a few of them off with clear reds.

Ospina, Koscielny, Debuchy and now Gibbs all dead. Bellerin and Hayden should get a lot of games.

[Injury Time]

Need to get the lawyers to start suing the refs for damages* :sulk:

We're never been more a one man team than now Alexis Carringtherest :bow:






*may not be entirely serious, given our players worth maybe small claims court?

[Xhaka Can’t]

In all honesty, I was expecting us to eek out a draw.

It was painful to watch. As I'm sure most other matches today were.

The rewards for players has never been better.

Can't say the same for the fans funding it all.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Sanchez :bow:

And wenger wants to change his style of play :haha:

[Grebbo]

Dreadful. We can't keep possession in midfield for more than 30 seconds.

Carzorla was fucking annoying with his shit shooting.

Seriously lacking quality.

[Letters]

See. I don't think we are lacking quality. We're lacking...something, but this squad has some very good players in and so far is much less than the sum of its parts. And yet...no-one else, bar Chelsea, is looking any good either so we're still around the top 4.

[Globalgunner]

See. I don't think we are lacking quality. We're lacking...something, but this squad has some very good players in and so far is much less than the sum of its parts. And yet...no-one else, bar Chelsea, is looking any good either so we're still around the top 4.

What we are lacking is obvious. An astute, sane forward thinking manager

[fakeyank]

Eye gorging shit fest... still a win is a win.

Can count on my hands how many games we have played 'good football' in, in the last 3-4 years.

[Letters]

What we are lacking is obvious. An astute, sane forward thinking manager

Well, possibly. But last season this manager (who we now all agree is the worst manager in the history of the game and, moreover, a worse human being than Hitler) won the FA Cup and we finished on 79 points, the most for 5 years. Something is going badly wrong this year, we seemed to have regressed despite seemingly spent well over the summer.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Thank god for Alexis.

He's too good for us.

[Globalgunner]

It must be the Ebola then. Who would have guessed that the manager who has only won 1 cup in 10 years might not win another. How would anyone have known

[Syn]

A match forged in the pig pen of the world's filthiest pub. Truly abysmal play all round.

Still, after going ahead, we had numerous chances to kill the game off. Cazorla should have had a hat-trick in the last ten minutes but he was utterly dreadful. Every break broke down with either a pitiful final ball or an embarrassing finish.

Sanchez :bow:. What a man.

Mannone :bow:.

Kevin Friend was scandalous. Book every Arsenal player for their first foul or book them for a collision. Book Sunderland players after numerous fouls and let a few of them off with clear reds.

Ospina, Koscielny, Debuchy and now Gibbs all dead. Bellerin and Hayden should get a lot of games.

Wrong. The correct match reaction is as follows.

*Sigh* don't know why I bothered watching the game. It was so boring and I knew it would be crap because we've been shit for ages. We were crap in the last match, awful in this match and we'll be boring in the next game. Even when we scored, I couldn't even smile. I get no pleasure from watching Arsenal play these days but I'll continue watching them and getting bored and writing about it on here so you too can get bored. Luckily somebody rang the doorbell during the game. It was only a jehovah's witness but spending 2 minutes at the door saved me from watching 2 minutes of watching Arsenal. *Sigh* :( xx

[Letters]

It must be the Ebola then. Who would have guessed that the manager who has only won 1 cup in 10 years might not win another. How would anyone have known
Winning trophies is a mere side-effect of being a good team and last year we were a good team. We led the table for a fair bit of the season and while we stuttered towards the end we looked like a decent side, won a trophy and seemed to be signing good players in the summer. And yet now we're all over the shop.
If you really thought we'd be this poor this season then well done on your prescience but I don't think many people saw this coming.

What's odd is that Chelsea aside no-one is looking much good. We're in a 'crises' apparently and yet we're only 3 points off City.

[Globalgunner]

Well, possibly. But last season this manager (who we now all agree is the worst manager in the history of the game and, moreover, a worse human being than Hitler) won the FA Cup and we finished on 79 points, the most for 5 years. Something is going badly wrong this year, we seemed to have regressed despite seemingly spent well over the summer.
The problem with you zealots is that you spend all the time Robo scanning for anyone who defames your beloved Wenger that you forget your last arguments.

Just yesterday you spent several posts and statistics to show that we have not regressed but rather have only stagnated. Today.....on sober reflection you admit we have regressed. Which is ist please.......Dont tell me........ That isn't what you said, i need to read it again.......Nope...It still seems like you say we've regressed.

[Letters]

Wrong. The correct match reaction is as follows.

*Sigh* don't know why I bothered watching the game. It was so boring and I knew it would be crap because we've been shit for ages. We were crap in the last match, awful in this match and we'll be boring in the next game. Even when we scored, I couldn't even smile. I get no pleasure from watching Arsenal play these days but I'll continue watching them and getting bored and writing about it on here so you too can get bored. Luckily somebody rang the doorbell during the game. It was only a jehovah's witness but spending 2 minutes at the door saved me from watching 2 minutes of watching Arsenal. *Sigh* :( xx

Niall_Quinn the Paranoid Android :bow:

[Letters]

Just yesterday you spent several posts and statistics to show that we have not regressed but rather have only stagnated. Today.....on sober reflection you admit we have regressed. Which is ist please.......Dont tell me........ That isn't what you said, i need to read it again.......Nope...It still seems like you say we've regressed.
I don't think it's really that complicated, but for the slow of thinking...

Over the last 4 seasons we have improved our points tally year on year. That's improvement.
Taking a slightly longer term view we have bobbled around an average of around 73 points never doing much better, never doing much worse. That's stagnation.

I was arguing against the view that we were getting 'shitter and shitter'. I took that to mean the poster was claiming a long term regression which just hasn't been the case.

But from last season to this, we have regressed. And I'm somewhat baffled as to why we're suddenly looking so much poorer when on paper our squad is about as good if not better than last year.

It's not that complicated. :shrug:

[Globalgunner]

Winning trophies is a mere side-effect of being a good team and last year we were a good team. We led the table for a fair bit of the season and while we stuttered towards the end we looked like a decent side, won a trophy and seemed to be signing good players in the summer. And yet now we're all over the shop.
If you really thought we'd be this poor this season then well done on your prescience but I don't think many people saw this coming.

What's odd is that Chelsea aside no-one is looking much good. We're in a 'crises' apparently and yet we're only 3 points off City.
Before us last year the FA cup winners were Wigan who were relegated....Other luminary teams such as Portsmouth have won it..they too were relegated the next season, The FA cup is no indication of a good team. Its........ how shall I put this.....Pot luck

P.S Its only you who didnt see this shit on a stick season coming....plus Wenger of course

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

See. I don't think we are lacking quality. We're lacking...something, but this squad has some very good players in and so far is much less than the sum of its parts. And yet...no-one else, bar Chelsea, is looking any good either so we're still around the top 4.

A good manager.

[Xhaka Can’t]

One person is using reason and statistics to support his points.

The other is posting pretty much like a zealot.

Alanis Morissette would do well to take note.

[Globalgunner]

I don't think it's really that complicated, but for the slow of thinking...

Over the last 4 seasons we have improved our points tally year on year. That's improvement.
Taking a slightly longer term view we have bobbled around an average of around 73 points never doing much better, never doing much worse. That's stagnation.

I was arguing against the view that we were getting 'shitter and shitter'. I took that to mean the poster was claiming a long term regression which just hasn't been the case.

But from last season to this, we have regressed. And I'm somewhat baffled as to why we're suddenly looking so much poorer when on paper our squad is about as good if not better than last year.

It's not that complicated. :shrug:

Why use points. Points accummulated are against a different set of teams each season. Log position is more indicative of where you stand against your peers,
Kindly dig into your files and show our log position over the last few seasons. I think we will finish 4th again this season. I think your probably right. Stagnation not regression.

[Globalgunner]

One person is using reason and statistics to support his points.

The other is posting pretty much like a zealot.

Alanis Morissette would do well to take note.
Opinions...Assholes: equal in number

[Xhaka Can’t]

It wasn't an opinion, it was an observation.

[Globalgunner]

Carries a lot more weight then eh? Assholes make observations too. but from a different vantage point

[Xhaka Can’t]

If you are so angry that you are unable to post without sounding like a zealot and without the need to insult others, you should take a bit of a break mate.

[Globalgunner]

If you are so angry that you are unable to post without sounding like a zealot and without the need to insult others, you should take a bit of a break mate.

Let me take your mate Letters stance here. Where did I insult you?, apart from using statistics to show that the number of Arseholes are equal to opinions and that Arseholes see less well than other parts of the body.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I said 'insult others'.

You need to relax - you have an opinion that differs from Letters, but the way you frame yours makes you sound like the zealot.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Before us last year the FA cup winners were Wigan who were relegated....Other luminary teams such as Portsmouth have won it..they too were relegated the next season, The FA cup is no indication of a good team. Its........ how shall I put this.....Pot luck

P.S Its only you who didnt see this shit on a stick season coming....plus Wenger of course
lol.....let's not go overboard.

[Niall_Quinn]

Niall_Quinn the Paranoid Android :bow:

Jehovah's Witnesses don't knock on my door - they are afraid I'll talk to them. So no, not really, nothing like me.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I picture them pulling flap on your padded cell door tbh.

[Bumble]

just seen the goals and highlights. sunderland are dreadful.

[Gooner23]

We are only 1 degree away from boiling according to Wenget. Whatever the fuck that means!

[Niall_Quinn]

just seen the goals and highlights. sunderland are dreadful.

Highlights made us look a lot better than we actually were. A lot.

[Munchies]

Credit to Sanchez.

If he didn't chase them down, we'd have dropped points again

[Marc Overmars]

Credit to Sanchez.

If he didn't chase them down, we'd have dropped points again

2 goals were absolute gifts.

Still, a much needed win. Lets hope we've started to sort our lives out.

[Grebbo]

See. I don't think we are lacking quality. We're lacking...something, but this squad has some very good players in and so far is much less than the sum of its parts. And yet...no-one else, bar Chelsea, is looking any good either so we're still around the top 4.

Name a player on that pitch yesterday that has star quality other than Sanchez. We absolutely lack quality.

I watched the Man City v Spam game and even though they lost, City are the team closest in quality to the Invincible's. Quality all over the pitch.

If Wenger adds one star player per season like he has done the past two seasons (Ozil is debatable right now tbh) then we'll get there eventually. I'm amazed we managed to convince Sanchez to sign for us but I'm hopeful within the next 2-3 years we'll have a core of 5 or 6 world class players.

[Kano]

Sunderland need to be investigated. He actions of some of their players in these past two games go beyond just silly mistakes.

[fakeyank]

Winning trophies is a mere side-effect of being a good team and last year we were a good team. We led the table for a fair bit of the season and while we stuttered towards the end we looked like a decent side, won a trophy and seemed to be signing good players in the summer. And yet now we're all over the shop.
If you really thought we'd be this poor this season then well done on your prescience but I don't think many people saw this coming.

What's odd is that Chelsea aside no-one is looking much good. We're in a 'crises' apparently and yet we're only 3 points off City.

We were a good team last year in the 'Premier League'? While you can raise the banner of 79 points (which means nothing btw), we got hammered in almost every big game we played in. How is that progress? We made one step forward and one step back. Whether its 83 points in 2008 or 79 last season, the truth is that we are 4th position and 3rd at best, in some cases.. I can accept 4th position if there was anything good to look at in our football. You cannot honestly tell me that Arsenal plays anything resembling a team that charges one of the highest prices in world football. We play some seriously horrible stuff.. for the players we have, we should at least be entertaining the fans, forget winning something.

I can accept that we will not win trophies because that can sometimes just boil down to a ref's decision in a very crucial game.. what I cannot accept is that we look like we cannot score against the crappiest of crap teams. We look devoid of ideas in almost every game we play in. In 2006 when we got 4th (lasagnagate season), we barely scrapped 4th, but what we did was play some blinding football. Since 2008, we have been in 4th position or thereabouts but unlike 2006 we have taken one step backwards and are playing football that is slightly better than Tony Pubis's worst sides. Unacceptable!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We were a good team last year in the 'Premier League'? While you can raise the banner of 79 points (which means nothing btw), we got hammered in almost every big game we played in. How is that progress? We made one step forward and one step back. Whether its 83 points in 2008 or 79 last season, the truth is that we are 4th position and 3rd at best, in some cases.. I can accept 4th position if there was anything good to look at in our football. You cannot honestly tell me that Arsenal plays anything resembling a team that charges one of the highest prices in world football. We play some seriously horrible stuff.. for the players we have, we should at least be entertaining the fans, forget winning something.

I can accept that we will not win trophies because that can sometimes just boil down to a ref's decision in a very crucial game.. what I cannot accept is that we look like we cannot score against the crappiest of crap teams. We look devoid of ideas in almost every game we play in. In 2006 when we got 4th (lasagnagate season), we barely scrapped 4th, but what we did was play some blinding football. Since 2008, we have been in 4th position or thereabouts but unlike 2006 we have taken one step backwards and are playing football that is slightly better than Tony Pubis's worst sides. Unacceptable!


Whilst I accept what your saying, I don't agree about the 2005/2006 season. I thought especially away from home the football was dire, the very epitome of what you dislike about our current football....I think our play was only better at Highbury because the pitch was smaller and naturally compressed the play anyway

[Letters]

We were a good team last year in the 'Premier League'?

Well...yes. We finished 4th :shrug:

We won more games than anyone outside the top 3.
We lost fewer games than anyone outside the top 3.
We scored more goals than anyone outside the top 3.
We conceded fewer goals than anyone but City, Chelsea and Everton (Liverpool contrived to concede significantly more which, I guess, is why they failed to win the title).

In brief, by every reasonable metric in terms of overall league performance we were about 4th best. The word 'good' is a bit vague but I'd say that's a pretty good team.

And yes, we got 79 points, that's more than in the 97/98 season when we did the Double.
Football has moved on, you need to do better than that to win the title these days, but it's a decent tally, only two fewer than Chelsea and seven fewer than Champions City.
It's the most points we've got since 2008 and, it's also the smallest gap between ourselves and the champions since 2008.
The bit in bold is significant IMO, I would call that progress.

I'm interested how you would back up the claim that our points total 'means nothing'? Surely in assessing league performance it's pretty key.
We got hammered in the 3 away games against the top 3 (I thought we played well at City actually and on a different day, with a different ref, that would have been closer, I didn't see the Liverpool game but heard we were hopeless, I did see the Chelsea game and we were hopeless!)
Against those sides at home we won one and drew two. Not good enough overall and showed up our title credentials. But the league isn't determined over 3 games, it's over 38. And it's surely better that way round than getting better results in those games and then keep losing to teams we 'should' be beating and overall doing worse. The ideal is both, obviously.

Last year we did seem to make some progress, the league points tally was encouraging and the FA Cup win finally got the monkey off our back about not winning trophies. It seemed like a good platform to push on and whatever you think of Wenger he deserved the chance to lead us on if he wanted to (for his sake he should probably have retired on a high, but there you go). And we seemed to be making good signings in the summer. I'm completely baffled as to how we can suddenly be as crap as we've been this season although it has to be said at the tail end of last season we were struggling through games a bit and maybe that's carried on to this season. We're not good enough to win the title and I agree about the style of football but we're a better team than our results and performances are suggesting so far. I'm a bit baffled at how clueless we're looking tbh.

[Letters]

Name a player on that pitch yesterday that has star quality other than Sanchez. We absolutely lack quality.
Compared with City and Chelsea maybe, but looking through the lineup there's plenty of good players out there.
We're far less than the sum of our parts right now.

[Power n Glory]

The attacking side of our game has fallen flat. It can't even be described as 'tippy tappy' because we can't even string together a flurry a passes without turning over the ball. Heavy touches, reckless passes, poor decision making, over dribbling.....all too common in our game now. Since we sold Cesc and Nasri, we haven't been playing tippy tappy.

We're now heavily dependent on individual brilliance because the system doesn't work. The more 'direct' style we saw last season wasn't a result of any tactical/philosophical switch by Wenger, we hadn't abandoned 'tippy tappy' as some argued. We just couldn't do it. Instead of a flurry or passes then a goal, we'd get one great ball and a goal like we saw with Song and RVP or Walcott and Giroud.

Over the past few seasons we've relied heavily on inform players to bail us out. RVP, Song, Walcott, Giroud, Ramsey and now Sanchez. The attacking system we once had is broken which is why we can no longer pick our kids for Carling Cup matches and expect them to blow away lower league/division opposition.

[Letters]

Before us last year the FA cup winners were Wigan who were relegated....Other luminary teams such as Portsmouth have won it..they too were relegated the next season, The FA cup is no indication of a good team. Its........ how shall I put this.....Pot luck
Nice work on cherry picking two FA Cup winners over the last 20 years...
And people are accusing me of twisting facts?! :lol:

Wigan beat City, it was a shock result.
Portsmouth beat Cardiff, it was an unusual season in which none of the big boys made it to the final.

Every other year for the past 20 years it's been a 'big team' winning it, pretty much always a side who finished in the top 4. That's why the Double, once a thing spoken of in hushed tones, has become far more common. So, no, it isn't 'pot luck'. Of course there is an element of luck and 'on the day' which is why you get those two unusual years but the trend in the past 20 years has clearly been a top 4 league team winning the cup too.


P.S Its only you who didnt see this shit on a stick season coming....plus Wenger of course

No, it isn't:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3016

I notice you declined to comment in that thread. Nor did I but I've said I'm surprised by how it's going so far. You're claiming more prescience than I doubt you really had...

Oh, and you asked why use points as a comparison? It's the best objective measure isn't it? Yes, 3 teams go down and 3 come up. But the other 16 sides we have to play are the same. Some of those sides will sign well and get better, others will get worse. Overall though over 38 games it's a pretty reasonable measure of where you are. Last year we finished with the most points and with the smallest gap to the champions since 2008. I don't see how that's irrelevant when arguing against the claim that we are getting 'shitter and shitter'.

:tiphat:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think the performance was a bit blunt today there was a big gap between midfield and attack, we made Sunderland look better than what they were when in fact they were listless throughout and the two errors which gifted us goals exemplified that rather than blemished anything.

I thought Welbeck actually played well and was prepared to run, take on players and find team mates. I think Sanchez's presence was enough to make the players panic and commit the howlers that gifted him two goals

Cazorla was shocking, Szczesny once again seems to be coming off his line unnecessarily and the rest of the team were largely anonymous. Though Chambers once again was hard working and full of energy which is good to see.

[Penguin]

Sanchez :bow:

And wenger wants to change his style of play :haha:

Did he actually say that?

Wow.

[BOBN]

Alex Song had his best game in English football yesterday. Looked a proper DM while here people said he was ill-disciplined.

Cesc has looked less lazy and of a defensively liability than he did for us, hence hes been able to return to the '2', so hes improved.

Wilsheres going backwards. Ramsey has had his season probably.

Midfield is the position on the pitch which separates the blaggers and wingers from the serious. In a park football match its the midfielder who are the most tactically inept. Forwards and defenders generally know what they need to do as its relatively instinctive, its the midfielders who dont have a clue what is required of them in terms of protecting the defence and consistently pulling the opposition out of position or generally troubling them with their choices (movement/passing)

This is where Wenger tells on himself.

Exposes the fact he doesnt have a clue tactically.

We play without a midfield as Souness said. They simply domt do shyt.

Allardyce would do a better job for us right now tbh.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Are we still debating that we are getting shitter and shitter out there on that pitch?

Results like yesterday's are exactly why stats can be thrown at us to try and make things look better than they really are. An absolute shitfest, like what has been happening for many a seasons now, but we came out with the all important 3 points due to a poor league with 3/4 of its participants being appallingly shit.

How many more of these will we pull off, as we end in the season with what looks a respectable points haul?

[Globalgunner]

Letters aint convinced....there's something missing but he cant seem to put his finger on it. Ah well, sometime before Ragnorak, we will have an answer. In the meantime....WUMGER:yippee:. Long may his reign continue

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Are we still debating that we are getting shitter and shitter out there on that pitch?

Results like yesterday's are exactly why stats can be thrown at us to try and make things look better than they really are. An absolute shitfest, like what has been happening for many a seasons now, but we came out with the all important 3 points due to a poor league with 3/4 of its participants being appallingly shit.

How many more of these will we pull off, as we end in the season with what looks a respectable points haul?

Staying with my brother it's immediate to find parallels between you and my 20 month old nephew who screams and bangs his fist, he's frustrated because his porridge hasn't cooled down and he isn't old enough to know better. What's your excuse?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Are we still debating that we are getting shitter and shitter out there on that pitch?

Results like yesterday's are exactly why stats can be thrown at us to try and make things look better than they really are. An absolute shitfest, like what has been happening for many a seasons now, but we came out with the all important 3 points due to a poor league with 3/4 of its participants being appallingly shit.

How many more of these will we pull off, as we end in the season with what looks a respectable points haul?

Excellent post.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Staying with my brother it's immediate to find parallels between you and my 20 month old nephew who screams and bangs his fist, he's frustrated because his porridge hasn't cooled down and he isn't old enough to know better. What's your excuse?

Personal insults. :bow:

[Letters]

Letters aint convinced

I've backed up my opinion with stats and reasoning. All you've done is keep repeating it as fact as though the more you say it the truer it will be.

Actually, my stance isn't really an opinion. The most significant objective metrics of where we are year on year clearly show that we haven't got 'shitter and shitter' over the last 5 years. Last season we got more points and were closer to the champions than any year since 2008.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah, but we're shit.

[Power n Glory]

I've backed up my opinion with stats and reasoning. All you've done is keep repeating it as fact as though the more you say it the truer it will be.

Actually, my stance isn't really an opinion. The most significant objective metrics of where we are year on year clearly show that we haven't got 'shitter and shitter' over the last 5 years. Last season we got more points and were closer to the champions than any year since 2008.

We were better last year but seem to have taken a few steps backwards. The FA Cup wasn't the springboard we'd thought it would be. Seems like we've fallen complacent after that small victory. But regardless, this seems like a pointless debate. Back up as many points as you like using stats, we're still 'shit' even if the points tally doesn't show we're getting 'shitter' each year. We're still not moving in the right direction and that's the overall point that should be emphasised.

[KSE Comedy Club]

IMO, we aren't getting shitter, we just aren't improving. We have changed personal numerous times and whilst some players were shite, they certainly haven't all been so.

We have the potential to be a great team, but we are consistently let down but the lack of tactics or change in our play.

I don't want to get into another wenger debate, but it's clear that with a different vision and more tactically astute thinking, we would be far superior than what we are now

[Xhaka Can’t]

We were better last year but seem to have taken a few steps backwards. The FA Cup wasn't the springboard we'd thought it would be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWFRpqltyPU

[Letters]

We were better last year but seem to have taken a few steps backwards. The FA Cup wasn't the springboard we'd thought it would be. Seems like we've fallen complacent after that small victory. But regardless, this seems like a pointless debate. Back up as many points as you like using stats, we're still 'shit' even if the points tally doesn't show we're getting 'shitter' each year. We're still not moving in the right direction and that's the overall point that should be emphasised.
Well. I agree with all that.

It's just irritating when people make vague claims which just don't stack up and then ignore or dismiss the evidence which shows they don't stack up and use lazy straw man arguments instead of responding to the argument.

[Power n Glory]

Well. I agree with all that.

It's just irritating when people make vague claims which just don't stack up and then ignore or dismiss the evidence which shows they don't stack up and use lazy straw man arguments instead of responding to the argument.

What annoys me most is the arguing over semantics or 'degrees of shitness'.

[Globalgunner]

Well. I agree with all that.

It's just irritating when people make vague claims which just don't stack up and then ignore or dismiss the evidence which shows they don't stack up and use lazy straw man arguments instead of responding to the argument.

Inside your head must be an ocean wave of contradictions sloshing back and forth in a colossal conundrum. 2 days ago we were stagnating, Yesterday, we seem to have regressed. Today we are back to stagnating and of course you have the facts to back it up. Points. WTF do points mean?. Please list our season ending standing position for the last 7 years and tell me where we are heading. Nobody hates bullshit more than the bullshitter. You like your stats, I like mine. Points don't mean jack. You can lose the league by 1 point or a dozen. This is the same mindset that sees us awarding Wenger invisible trophies conjured up on these pages. You my friend can copiously continue to argue the difference between 6 and half a dozen. The evidence however is there on the pitch. Turgid impotent football that is clueless against organised teams and utterly swatted away by quality teams with astute managers.

[Niall_Quinn]

The football is currently the worst I have seen us play in near on 40 years. In that respect we've not just gone backwards, we've fallen off the edge of an abyss and are accelerating towards terminal velocity. I dread having to watch us play because I know it will be the most frustrating experience of the week by a distance. Fortunately for us, this is the shittiest league in Europe in terms of the quality of the football played and the entertainment it provides. So we remain the 4th biggest turd in a pile of shit. In that respect we've held station, or stagnated, or rotted.

[milla]

The football is currently the worst I have seen us play in near on 40 years. In that respect we've not just gone backwards, we've fallen off the edge of an abyss and are accelerating towards terminal velocity. I dread having to watch us play because I know it will be the most frustrating experience of the week by a distance. Fortunately for us, this is the shittiest league in Europe in terms of the quality of the football played and the entertainment it provides. So we remain the 4th biggest turd in a pile of shit. In that respect we've held station, or stagnated, or rotted.

Turd :pal:

[fakeyank]

Well...yes. We finished 4th :shrug:

We won more games than anyone outside the top 3.
We lost fewer games than anyone outside the top 3.
We scored more goals than anyone outside the top 3.
We conceded fewer goals than anyone but City, Chelsea and Everton (Liverpool contrived to concede significantly more which, I guess, is why they failed to win the title).

In brief, by every reasonable metric in terms of overall league performance we were about 4th best. The word 'good' is a bit vague but I'd say that's a pretty good team.

And yes, we got 79 points, that's more than in the 97/98 season when we did the Double.
Football has moved on, you need to do better than that to win the title these days, but it's a decent tally, only two fewer than Chelsea and seven fewer than Champions City.
It's the most points we've got since 2008 and, it's also the smallest gap between ourselves and the champions since 2008.
The bit in bold is significant IMO, I would call that progress.

I'm interested how you would back up the claim that our points total 'means nothing'? Surely in assessing league performance it's pretty key.
We got hammered in the 3 away games against the top 3 (I thought we played well at City actually and on a different day, with a different ref, that would have been closer, I didn't see the Liverpool game but heard we were hopeless, I did see the Chelsea game and we were hopeless!)
Against those sides at home we won one and drew two. Not good enough overall and showed up our title credentials. But the league isn't determined over 3 games, it's over 38. And it's surely better that way round than getting better results in those games and then keep losing to teams we 'should' be beating and overall doing worse. The ideal is both, obviously.

Last year we did seem to make some progress, the league points tally was encouraging and the FA Cup win finally got the monkey off our back about not winning trophies. It seemed like a good platform to push on and whatever you think of Wenger he deserved the chance to lead us on if he wanted to (for his sake he should probably have retired on a high, but there you go). And we seemed to be making good signings in the summer. I'm completely baffled as to how we can suddenly be as crap as we've been this season although it has to be said at the tail end of last season we were struggling through games a bit and maybe that's carried on to this season. We're not good enough to win the title and I agree about the style of football but we're a better team than our results and performances are suggesting so far. I'm a bit baffled at how clueless we're looking tbh.

I'll first answer by saying why total points mean nothing in the big picture. While our points gap may with the PL champions was the lowest in a while, we knew in March itself that we were out of the title race. Like I mentioned in my previous post, we always show promise one season and mess up the next. Case in point would be the 2008 season where we finished on 83 points and the next season, we barely scrapped past Villa into 4th. The same thing is happening this season yet I find you at a loss for words to describe how this is happening! This has been happening for the last 5-6 years. It shouldnt be a surprise anymore!

I dont know about the other Wenger critics much but my criticism of him has never been about spending. Its about why he has changed our style of play into something horrible to watch. I do not understand why he plays players out of position and then wonders why we play with a 'little bit handbrake'! That man is doing this to us every season with the same out of date tactics and player selection yet he gets backing from many. I have said this before and I'll say it again... we can get Ronaldo and Messi in the team and AW will coach the directness out of them as well. He really shouldve retired after the end of last season and gone on a high.. instead now he is trapped in a place where he cant hide behind the 'money argument'. He is slowly destroying whatever goodwill he has at the club. While I do not like him as a manager, I really wish he had walked out on a high. Pity!

[Globalgunner]

Think back 2 seasons ago . The season when we overhauled the Spuds 10 point gap. We won something like 8 of the last 10 games but each 1 was a shitfest horror show.
We maybe played better last season overall but this was the season where we suffered some absolutely horrible maulings. Scandalous scorelines that would have seen any other manager shown the door. We are not going to drive Wenger out on our keyboards but we should not allow some self important individuals mendacity to smokescreen us into believing that things aren't really so bad. It is a shitty league, apparently so. But right now that seems to be our only saving grace. If cavemen like Allardyce can identify weaknesses in their team and take steps to correct it. Why the heck cant a man with 5 times the resources and 4 times the pay.

[Letters]

Inside your head must be an ocean wave of contradictions sloshing back and forth in a colossal conundrum. 2 days ago we were stagnating, Yesterday, we seem to have regressed.
:lol: Seriously? We had that exact conversation earlier and I addressed that.
Do I really have to have to do so again? You're like my bloody wife!

It really isn't that hard to understand the point. Over the last 10 years (roughly) we have stagnated.
From last season to this we seem to have regressed.
It's not a contradiction, it's assessing different timescales.

When discussing the first of those timescales I was addressing the argument that we have got 'shitter and shitter' which I took to mean over a reasonably long period. That just isn't true and I've shown clearly it isn't.


Points don't mean jack.

What a bizarre thing to say.

[Letters]

Case in point would be the 2008 season where we finished on 83 points and the next season, we barely scrapped past Villa into 4th. The same thing is happening this season yet I find you at a loss for words to describe how this is happening! This has been happening for the last 5-6 years. It shouldnt be a surprise anymore!

That's a fair point but with the signing of Ozil last summer (whatever you think of his performances, that was a major signing which showed some real intent) and Sanchez this it really did seem we were starting to show more ambition. So while you're right, we've been here before far too many times, the new financial deals are in place now so it did seem things might be different this time. Alas, it seems not.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Points don't mean jack.



What a bizarre thing to say.

Its all about possession mate.

[Globalgunner]

:lol: Seriously? We had that exact conversation earlier and I addressed that.
Do I really have to have to do so again? You're like my bloody wife!

It really isn't that hard to understand the point. Over the last 10 years (roughly) we have stagnated.
From last season to this we seem to have regressed.
It's not a contradiction, it's assessing different timescales.

When discussing the first of those timescales I was addressing the argument that we have got 'shitter and shitter' which I took to mean over a reasonably long period. That just isn't true and I've shown clearly it isn't.



What a bizarre thing to say.
Its not that difficult. You can have more points than a previous season and be in an overall worst position. Similarly you can have less points than last season and win the league. Points are not a barometer of progress, Surely even you can understand that.

[AFC Leveller]

Our football is now one of the worst in the top 10, its just slow and boring. Left to righ to left to back to right etc and it gives the opposition time to get organised and stop any potential attacks.

I watched Everton's 1st goal yesterday and it was a reminder of what we used to be able to do to teams. Fast counter attack from left to right finished clinically by Eto'o. Apart from the great Alexis, the rest of our players are happy to pass it around and neglect responsability.

Its not a coincidende that the 2 or 3 players we have who press high and workd hard are new to the club (Alexis, Welbz and Campbell at times).

[Letters]

Its not that difficult. You can have more points than a previous season and be in an overall worst position. Similarly you can have less points than last season and win the league.
OK. That's valid.
But last year we got the most points since 2008 AND it was the smallest gap between us and the champions since then too.
And we won the FA Cup.
So we clearly weren't in a worse position than the previous 2 seasons. Ergo, we weren't getting 'shitter and shitter'.

:tiphat:

[Power n Glory]

Degrees of shitness.

[Letters]

Degrees of shitness.
I think we can all agree we're a bit shit this season.
Luckily, so is pretty much everyone else. We've won 3 games out of 9 and we're 5th :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Its not a coincidende that the 2 or 3 players we have who press high and workd hard are new to the club (Alexis, Welbz and Campbell at times).

Add Chambers to that list. He's started to settle into the Arsenal way unfortunately. Campbell hasn't had enough game time to be blunted yet, the few times he's been on the pitch he's looked worryingly positive. Welbeck is taking to his solitary confinement quite well and is looking less and less of a threat as the games roll on. But Alexis is the real problem. Seems the boy just doesn't want to learn. Charging around the place, hustling, harrying, running towards the goal, shooting, abandoning his triangle. Whatever the hell goes on at Barca on the training pitch we don't want any of that here thanks!

[Power n Glory]

With that argument, you may now finally understand why I don't rate Wenger for keeping us in the top 4 all these years. The teams contesting for that spot have all been 'shit'. :lol:

[Letters]

With that argument, you may now finally understand why I don't rate Wenger for keeping us in the top 4 all these years. The teams contesting for that spot have all been 'shit'. :lol:
Well, there is something in that. Although I think this year everyone seems particularly poor.
But some of the other sides have spent a shitload of money to try and unseat us so you can't completely dismiss our staying up there despite us not spending as much in the transfer market.

[Power n Glory]

Well, there is something in that. Although I think this year everyone seems particularly poor.
But some of the other sides have spent a shitload of money to try and unseat us so you can't completely dismiss our staying up there despite us not spending as much in the transfer market.

Well, look at it this way, Man Utd have spent a bucket load this season but we're just above them. Can we really praise the way we've performed this season to stay above them when looking at our record and the way we've played?

[LDG]

Not this argument again :crying:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not this argument again :crying:
Sadly, there is little else. Like the club, our arguments stink of stagnation.

[selassie]

Regarding our current playing style, "snail pace tiki taka" Actually it's not even tiki taka as we seem to struggle to even pass the ball these days. Anyway I caught the article in the link below, I thought it was quite interesting Wenger mentioned pace in the team and referenced 3 guys who are currently starting for us.

We have so much pace in the team...but we don't use it?

I hope our current style is more to do with the players lacking confidence and the team being more cautious regarding defensive duties because it makes no sense whatsoever not to utilise the pace of Alexis, OX and Welbz.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20141026/wenger-we-have-more-pace-this-season

[GP]

Sadly, there is little else. Like the club, our arguments stink of stagnation.

Your face stinks of stagnation

[Dein-machine]

The issue for me is that Wenger doesn't even seem to be concerned about our shit play. Not just in interviews but in what he is doing on the pitch. The lack of quality in the final 3rd is there for all to see. Most of our play tends to be central against teams who know what we're going to do & we lose the ball after our 85th pass sideways. We need to add proper width to stretch defenses but you don't do that by playing Arteta & Flamini. It was obvious that Sunderland, on the back of a 8 goal hammering, would spend all week working on their defensive deficiencies especially with us coming up. To play 2 DM's against these teams is ridiculous. It means our 4 attacking players having to break down 6 defenders. We scored 2 goals handed to us on a plate which is simply shit against a terrible Sunderland team. We didn't even need a DM on Saturday, play 4-5-1 with Sanchez & Campbell wide, Welbz up top, Santi, Rambo & Ox coming through from midfield. Get a few goals in front & bring on a DM to sure it up.

[Syn]

We played Arteta and Flamini, they didn't wander forward too much so we held a better shape, and we ended up keeping a clean sheet. The first in ages. We should've won easily but Welbeck, Chamberlain and Cazorla were shit. With Ramsey off form we don't have the right balance in midfield. We went back to basics a bit in the Sunderland game - just two limited CMs that pass to more talented players and hold their shape and I think we might have to continue doing that. Hopefully Ramsey can go back to playing like he did in the second half of the 12/13 season. Even if we don't have his goals, we need his defensive qualities. Once we don't have to keep chasing games we might win more regularly.

[Letters]

Sadly, there is little else. Like the club, our arguments stink of stagnation.

I would say our arguments have regressed.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Your face stinks of stagnation
Nah, it's regressing.

[Globalgunner]

Love you guys. all of ya including the Arsene mini-me`s

One things for sure...in all of our shitness. Spuds will always be beneath us

Peace

[Letters]

:lol: Spurs.
They really are the gift that keeps on giving.

[AFC Leveller]

Add Chambers to that list. He's started to settle into the Arsenal way unfortunately. Campbell hasn't had enough game time to be blunted yet, the few times he's been on the pitch he's looked worryingly positive. Welbeck is taking to his solitary confinement quite well and is looking less and less of a threat as the games roll on. But Alexis is the real problem. Seems the boy just doesn't want to learn. Charging around the place, hustling, harrying, running towards the goal, shooting, abandoning his triangle. Whatever the hell goes on at Barca on the training pitch we don't want any of that here thanks!

He'll have a "knock" soon and AW will coach his game out of him in no time.

His hustling got him two goals the other day and the manager saw it live but he still insists on playing this pointless shit that makes Sunderland look like world beaters in defence.

[Dein-machine]

We played Arteta and Flamini, they didn't wander forward too much so we held a better shape, and we ended up keeping a clean sheet. The first in ages. We should've won easily but Welbeck, Chamberlain and Cazorla were shit. With Ramsey off form we don't have the right balance in midfield. We went back to basics a bit in the Sunderland game - just two limited CMs that pass to more talented players and hold their shape and I think we might have to continue doing that. Hopefully Ramsey can go back to playing like he did in the second half of the 12/13 season. Even if we don't have his goals, we need his defensive qualities. Once we don't have to keep chasing games we might win more regularly.

You need shape when you are being attacked. We had 2 midfielders "not wandering forward", this is my point - against Sunderland. We are then reliant on 4 players having worldy games to create scoring opportunities. This is made even more necessary because we are crap at set pieces. On Sat, we had Santi, Ox & Welbz having nightmares - this will often be the case because we don't have real quality in the final third, therefore resulting in lack of goals.

[fakeyank]

Our football is now one of the worst in the top 10, its just slow and boring. Left to righ to left to back to right etc and it gives the opposition time to get organised and stop any potential attacks.

I watched Everton's 1st goal yesterday and it was a reminder of what we used to be able to do to teams. Fast counter attack from left to right finished clinically by Eto'o. Apart from the great Alexis, the rest of our players are happy to pass it around and neglect responsability.

Its not a coincidende that the 2 or 3 players we have who press high and workd hard are new to the club (Alexis, Welbz and Campbell at times).

:gp:

This!!! My major gripe against our club right now is the horrible football we put on show. It is atrocious! We can count on our hand how many games we played good football in, in the last 2-3 seasons. We cant even get back at other teams fans saying "We play the best football in England" anymore..

[GP]

Nah, it's regressing.

Sharp decline, tbh

[LDG]

Sharp decline, tbh

His face is melting quicker than Greenland.

[GP]

Sadly, there is little else. Like the club, our arguments stink of stagnation.

Because we're all about 4th place,

No trebles.

[Injury Time]

Because we're all about 4th place,

No trebles.
I see what you did there, very good, a well deserved :getcoat: