The fallacy of the long term manager

[IBK]

I wonder whether there is a slightly different angle to analyse what has become a recurring situation at Arsenal? Its received wisdom amongst pundits and analysts of the game that constant rotation of managers is a bad thing in football. The theory is that this leads to instability; failure to build a successful team; hinders the long-term development of players and creates pressure on managers not given the space and time to perform.

While this might be true at the extreme end of the spectrum - I am not sure that it still rings true in the modern game. In fact, just like the anachronisms of the one-club player; player loyalty and the home-town (country) team - I've come to the conclusion that managerial longevity simply has no place for successful teams these days.

Let's look at the facts. The only other EPL manager who comes anywhere within Wengers bracket in terms of years in charge over the entire period of the premiership was SAF. In fact, Pellegrini aside Wenger's age itself is now a rarity in the modern English game. Ferguson's achievements dwarf Wenger's, but it is interesting that, genius as he was, he clearly saw the writing on the wall when he retired unexpectedly a couple os seaons ago. Hell, even 'Arry Redknap knew that his time was up when he retired from QPR.

Football, like life, moves at an increasingly rapid rate these days. Financial investment and pressure to produce results means that players must make an immediate impact. Stable clubs tend to give managers a bit more time - but what I think we are now seeing across European football is that regular change at the top is required to produce the hunger, energy and innovation necessary to compete. These 3 factors are patently absent at our club these days - and I think what we are seeing is that our manager's permanence is becoming a serious hindrance. Because it is producing the opposite of this - complacency; ineffectiveness and stagnation.

Let's get this right. We have a talented squad at our club. We can still beat the majority of EPL teams that lack the technical ability of our players. But what was once state of the art as regards Wenger's methods is now increasingly archaic. Younger, hungrier managers who will use any incremental advantage to achieve results are beginning to show up Wenger - who clings to a so-called purist ideal of creative, expressive football without the ruthless efficiency that can control a game; nullify the opposition and demands that every set piece is exploited as effectively as possible and that a team must defend to every last man. The CL is where the real managerial talent is, and the way in which the managers of even the lowliest CL teams are increasingly brushing Wenger aside is becoming almost embarrassing. This is not just true of last night, or 2 weeks ago - its been happening for the last few seasons now and it seems like a slow motion car crash.

For me, the CL is pointing the way that our club is heading in our league as well under Wenger. This seems obvious to almost everyone apart from him.

So I'm not sure any more that the question is whether we would do better under another manager. The question is whether the 'stabilty' we experience under his stewardship is an asset to the club any longer in terms of our prospects on the field (as opposed to the financial return for our 'investors'). And I am afraid that the answer is an emphatic 'no'.

[north bank nutter]

Wenger was caught up and overtaken 10 years ago. He had players who had balls back in the day, these days our players turn their back on the ball rather than throw themselves into harms way by taking one for the team.

You can say that to criticise the decision to put ospina in over cech is a bit results orientated, but Wenger has to take responsibility for that decision. I was a staunch Wenger supporter for many years but over the last few years I have slowly lost my patience, the FA cup wins only paper over the cracks. The whole world seems to know the deficiencies in the current Arsenal side, with the exception of Wenger.

[Özim]

I think Wenger is an argument against having a long term manager, things are very stale we're stuck in our ways and nothing ever changes, in reality we should have changed Wenger many years ago and we'd probably be all the better for it right now.

Based on what we're seeing now you can start questioning how great he really is, sure when he had top players and winners he won loads, but he inherited that winning mentality and has been unable to reproduce it since he lost those players, now what we regularly see is big beatings and defeats to inferior teams on the big stage.

He's out of ideas and just won't change or adapt to modern football, that's why we are where we are now, a team full of flaws which never get addressed which everyone apart from him can see, it's quite embarrassing for him in reality.

It's clear to me that a manager has a certain shelf life and that when things start to show signs of staleness you need to be brave and change things, sadly our club doesn't seem to share the same view and seems all too happy to see a team of also ran's getting embarrassed on a regular basis, we don't seem to have any more football men at the helm of this club sadly, the day Dein left was a bad one for the club.

[Letters]

I think Wenger is an argument against having a long term manager.
And Fergie is an argument for it :shrug:
It depends on the manager.
I kinda agree Wenger's had his day. I'm glad he's won these two FA Cups, it maintains some of his legacy. I think in the fullness of time people will appreciate what he did for the club.

[Niall_Quinn]

And Fergie is an argument for it :shrug:
It depends on the manager.
I kinda agree Wenger's had his day. I'm glad he's won these two FA Cups, it maintains some of his legacy. I think in the fullness of time people will appreciate what he did for the club.

People already appreciate what he's done for the club in the past, they just don't appreciate what he's doing to the club today.

[Letters]

Did I mention we just finished 3rd and won the FA Cup? No?



:run:

[Kano]

I wonder whether there is a slightly different angle to analyse what has become a recurring situation at Arsenal? Its received wisdom amongst pundits and analysts of the game that constant rotation of managers is a bad thing in football. The theory is that this leads to instability; failure to build a successful team; hinders the long-term development of players and creates pressure on managers not given the space and time to perform.

While this might be true at the extreme end of the spectrum - I am not sure that it still rings true in the modern game. In fact, just like the anachronisms of the one-club player; player loyalty and the home-town (country) team - I've come to the conclusion that managerial longevity simply has no place for successful teams these days.

Let's look at the facts. The only other EPL manager who comes anywhere within Wengers bracket in terms of years in charge over the entire period of the premiership was SAF. In fact, Pellegrini aside Wenger's age itself is now a rarity in the modern English game. Ferguson's achievements dwarf Wenger's, but it is interesting that, genius as he was, he clearly saw the writing on the wall when he retired unexpectedly a couple os seaons ago. Hell, even 'Arry Redknap knew that his time was up when he retired from QPR.

Football, like life, moves at an increasingly rapid rate these days. Financial investment and pressure to produce results means that players must make an immediate impact. Stable clubs tend to give managers a bit more time - but what I think we are now seeing across European football is that regular change at the top is required to produce the hunger, energy and innovation necessary to compete. These 3 factors are patently absent at our club these days - and I think what we are seeing is that our manager's permanence is becoming a serious hindrance. Because it is producing the opposite of this - complacency; ineffectiveness and stagnation.

Let's get this right. We have a talented squad at our club. We can still beat the majority of EPL teams that lack the technical ability of our players. But what was once state of the art as regards Wenger's methods is now increasingly archaic. Younger, hungrier managers who will use any incremental advantage to achieve results are beginning to show up Wenger - who clings to a so-called purist ideal of creative, expressive football without the ruthless efficiency that can control a game; nullify the opposition and demands that every set piece is exploited as effectively as possible and that a team must defend to every last man. The CL is where the real managerial talent is, and the way in which the managers of even the lowliest CL teams are increasingly brushing Wenger aside is becoming almost embarrassing. This is not just true of last night, or 2 weeks ago - its been happening for the last few seasons now and it seems like a slow motion car crash.

For me, the CL is pointing the way that our club is heading in our league as well under Wenger. This seems obvious to almost everyone apart from him.

So I'm not sure any more that the question is whether we would do better under another manager. The question is whether the 'stabilty' we experience under his stewardship is an asset to the club any longer in terms of our prospects on the field (as opposed to the financial return for our 'investors'). And I am afraid that the answer is an emphatic 'no'.

That last paragraph is key to the problem. Financially the club is on the up, which is really the where the crux of the matter remains. Wenger keeps doing the minimum, the board are happy and so it all remains in place. On the other side of the fence you have the Glazers, who are taking far more out of the club, spending a lot more on the team, yet the club remains close to half a billion in debt.

So there's a middle ground in between those two that is the ideal place to exist. But we have to ask, is that possible when we are essentially nothing more than a commercial asset to our owners? Bayern and Barca may look like good models from the outside but they are run in completely different ways, leaving the alternatives of Chelsea, City and PSG who have owners writing off their debts, turning the club into their personal play things.

Fergie was the exception to the rule when it comes to long term managers. The only comparable quality between the Scot and Wenger is their length of period at the club. Everything else, Fergie was head and shoulders above him. There hasn't been and won't be another manager that can stay at a club so long and remain successful. Now it is about 'projects' for both the player and manager. 2-4 years maximum, a slightly extended version of the traditional Spanish and Italian methods we used to laugh at in the 80/90's. It should come as no surprise really given the globalisation of business and sport over the past 15 years.

Will our owners want to sell up once Wenger leaves, as they come to conclusion that their safe house has been blown apart? When they realise a new manager could well mean missing out on CL money/status or spending more to achieve higher goals? Wenger is the perfect face of mediocrity for a big club like ourselves, enabling those upstairs to retain the current model. We all have hope once Wenger leaves that we may get our football team back but the larger and more troubling issues are going to be determined in the boardroom.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think we want to be imposing arbitrary time limits on a manager either, their successes in the game should determine the length of their spell at the club.
Wenger has been given 11 years at the club off the back of three league titles and that is of course too long but at the same token do we dismiss a manager who wins the league title one season and fails to retain it the next?.
No I don't think it's wise to keep with a manager out of loyalty, I don't think there are many managers who could have consistently kept us in the top four under the financial constraints we operated under but it's becoming clear now that due to his obstinacy and his failure to adapt to a changing game that he can't improve upon that even with far greater resources and he needs to go.
There is no question that in the minds of all but a few hardened anti Wenger fans he has immortalised himself as a club legend but this does not amount to owing him a living in perpetuity.

[Dein-machine]

And Fergie is an argument for it :shrug:
It depends on the manager.
I kinda agree Wenger's had his day. I'm glad he's won these two FA Cups, it maintains some of his legacy. I think in the fullness of time people will appreciate what he did for the club.

If he had gone 3 or 4 years ago I think you would be right but I'm afraid the appreciation we have for him gets less every year & by the time he leaves he could well be a hate figure. Fergie did the right thing, pubbed the Premier league with the worst United team in recent history & fucked off. He knew competing against Chelsea & City was going to be difficult & when you had had the success he had, the future was only going to be disappointing for fans of a team that won big trophies every year.

[Dein-machine]

That last paragraph is key to the problem. Financially the club is on the up, which is really the where the crux of the matter remains. Wenger keeps doing the minimum, the board are happy and so it all remains in place. On the other side of the fence you have the Glazers, who are taking far more out of the club, spending a lot more on the team, yet the club remains close to half a billion in debt.

So there's a middle ground in between those two that is the ideal place to exist. But we have to ask, is that possible when we are essentially nothing more than a commercial asset to our owners? Bayern and Barca may look like good models from the outside but they are run in completely different ways, leaving the alternatives of Chelsea, City and PSG who have owners writing off their debts, turning the club into their personal play things.

Fergie was the exception to the rule when it comes to long term managers. The only comparable quality between the Scot and Wenger is their length of period at the club. Everything else, Fergie was head and shoulders above him. There hasn't been and won't be another manager that can stay at a club so long and remain successful. Now it is about 'projects' for both the player and manager. 2-4 years maximum, a slightly extended version of the traditional Spanish and Italian methods we used to laugh at in the 80/90's. It should come as no surprise really given the globalisation of business and sport over the past 15 years.

Will our owners want to sell up once Wenger leaves, as they come to conclusion that their safe house has been blown apart? When they realise a new manager could well mean missing out on CL money/status or spending more to achieve higher goals? Wenger is the perfect face of mediocrity for a big club like ourselves, enabling those upstairs to retain the current model. We all have hope once Wenger leaves that we may get our football team back but the larger and more troubling issues are going to be determined in the boardroom.

I agree but the irony is in your last few words " more troubling issues are going to be determined in the boardroom" - a boardroom so weak, pathetic & unscrupulous that they sit at AGM's & confirm the clubs new financial wealth, committing their efforts to make us a top team again whilst allowing Wenger to ruin any chance of moving upwards from last year with the clubs most pathetic efforts to acquire quality in the transfer window. All this why they ask for more money to watch than any other club in Europe. How can we trust these tossers in the boardroom to make any footballing decisions. One of the reasons Wengers holds so much power is that our main owner couldn't tell you a football from a rugby ball.

[Letters]

If he had gone 3 or 4 years ago I think you would be right but I'm afraid the appreciation we have for him gets less every year & by the time he leaves he could well be a hate figure. Fergie did the right thing, pubbed the Premier league with the worst United team in recent history & fucked off. He knew competing against Chelsea & City was going to be difficult & when you had had the success he had, the future was only going to be disappointing for fans of a team that won big trophies every year.

Only the twattiest of internet twats would ever regard him as a hate figure.

What I don't understand is...we did win the FA Cup last year, and the year before that. And finished 4th then 3rd. Wenger's hardly taken us into mid-table, or worse. Clough got Forest relegated and he's still revered up there, all Wenger's done is gone too long without a trophy and we've dropped from 1st to 4th - in no small part due to the billionaires.

We were a bit spoilt by the first half of Wenger's reign but some people's take on how bad things are is way overboard. With our resources we should be pushing harder but the level of criticism he gets is somewhat out of proportion. Moyes showed us what a properly poor manager can do when let lose at a big club.

[Niall_Quinn]

You don't understand what competition is Letters, therefore you can't understand the entirely justifiable criticism a supposed top manager at a supposed top club is attracting.

You are comfortable admitting you find it "understandable" when the team backs off at the tail end of a season because they can no longer win the title. As a matter of fact, for any genuine sportsman, that's not understandable or acceptable in any way, shape or form. You push to the line every time. Your tolerance of less than 100% effort in all things at all times is ample proof you don't understand competition, ambition, pride or any of the other attributes and habits that underpin the winning mentality. Few of us have it, then again few of us get paid millions of pounds to pursue what is supposed to be a passion. As such, we have a team of in the main losers and a manager who has a long track record of losing in the major competitions. Yes, our level is now an accomplished domestic cup team but we had that back in the Terry Neill era when it was £3 a ticket and there was zero talk in the boardroom of dominating Europe or half a billion pound pay-offs. In other words, you are content with the shitty end of the stick. Others aren't and they state as much. Others will understand this easily even when they don't agree. But you don't understand.

Again you want to compare Wenger to anything bar his own record, Clough for example. I doubt they revered him on the day they were being relegated. A couple of decades later and they remember the good in preference to the bad. We'll probably do that too. But for now the team is supposed to be competing at the top of the game, competing mind you because there's nobody here demanding we win every trophy all the time, but we have a manger who is plainly sub-par. Therefore the manager needs to resign or be replaced. That's what happens at every other club and that's what should happen at this club. But, because the owners of the club are onto a nice title earner and their manager of choice is far more proficient at stuffing their pockets than realising the publicly stated ambitions of the club, the manager remains.

Moyes, of course, has nothing to do with this. The situation at Man Utd when Ferguson left and the situation at Arsenal today could hardly be more different.

And Clough won the European Cup while Wenger has has 10 times as many opportunities to do so but hasn't managed it. So maybe it's that ultimate prize the Forest fans remember. No such luck for Arsenal fans. We got close once but these days we are having our arses handed to us by teams like Zagreb and Olympiacos. What I don't understand is how Wenger gets away with it. I'm not sure anyone understand that one.

[Power n Glory]

He’d have been better off tanking badly for one season like Moyes rather than this long drawn out run of failure. It just exposes him even more and will be hard to blot out the flaws once the credits role on his career. If his career were a movie it would probably be Citizen Kane.

[Letters]

You don't understand what competition is Letters.
I understand all kinds of words like "patronizing". :coffee:


I'll reply properly later, I'm going to have a scone now :tiphat:

[selassie]

Only the twattiest of internet twats would ever regard him as a hate figure.

What I don't understand is...we did win the FA Cup last year, and the year before that. And finished 4th then 3rd. Wenger's hardly taken us into mid-table, or worse. Clough got Forest relegated and he's still revered up there, all Wenger's done is gone too long without a trophy and we've dropped from 1st to 4th - in no small part due to the billionaires.

We were a bit spoilt by the first half of Wenger's reign but some people's take on how bad things are is way overboard. With our resources we should be pushing harder but the level of criticism he gets is somewhat out of proportion. Moyes showed us what a properly poor manager can do when let lose at a big club.

Wenger clearly isn't using his resources correctly, that's why fans are up in arms. What he is doing is akin to gross mismanagement, he has no excuses, it's not like he is being handicapped or is disadvantaged, he has everything he needs to succeed and turn us into an elite club and for one reason or another he is sitting on his hands.

Winning the FA Cup was nice, it was the start of something or so we were lead to believe....

[Niall_Quinn]

I understand all kinds of words like "patronizing". :coffee:


I'll reply properly later, I'm going to have a scone now :tiphat:

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

[Kano]

I agree but the irony is in your last few words " more troubling issues are going to be determined in the boardroom" - a boardroom so weak, pathetic & unscrupulous that they sit at AGM's & confirm the clubs new financial wealth, committing their efforts to make us a top team again whilst allowing Wenger to ruin any chance of moving upwards from last year with the clubs most pathetic efforts to acquire quality in the transfer window. All this why they ask for more money to watch than any other club in Europe. How can we trust these tossers in the boardroom to make any footballing decisions. One of the reasons Wengers holds so much power is that our main owner couldn't tell you a football from a rugby ball.
That's exactly what I mean. The direction of the club will be determined by a board more interested in finance than progression on the pitch. So the the question is, will they sell up once they discover that is impossible once Wenger leaves and if so, what other monster will come and put his dirty paws into our club? We can wish for the current manager to leave but the real turmoil after we leave will come from the shareholders who are are the puppet masters.

[Power n Glory]

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

:haha:

NQ has a talent for this. Hilarious. :lol: :gp:

[rodders]

Lack of confidence in Wenger and his methods and philosophy is in my view why so many players have wanted to leave . Alexis Sanchez and Ozil will be next.They see we are going nowhere with Arsene at the helm.

[Özim]

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

Brilliant :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Stability is overrated. You only need stabilising if you're swimming against the tide and we're most certainly not anymore.

I think we should be very grateful for the stability Wenger provided during the early years of the Emirates move, I don't think there are many managers around who would have kept us relatively competitive with a minimal net spend and a squad of ordinary players. The problem for him is that circumstances change, everything in football changes, yet he's not really shown much to suggest he can keep up with that.

Now we need to move forward but we're stuck with a manager well past his sell by date. Tactically he's really poor, seldom do we pick up wins against teams we're competing with and his performance in the CL over 18 years speaks for itself. Squad management is poor, he'll run players into the ground, play them out of position (through refusal to buy specialist players) and won't make the necessary personnel changes until they've slapped him in the face. Something he was once famed for, player development, is now non-existent. All of our young players (in some cases, established ones too) tend to have an explosive start but then they seem to stagnate or even regress. Lets all take a moment to pray for Bellerin.

Finally, what he did in the transfer market this summer was laughable. Every year we see players come into this league and take to it like a duck to water but he couldn't find anyone to improve us because he was too busy waiting like a tramp around the dumpsters at Real Madrid, PSG and other clubs who may have a top player surplus. Fancy not signing anyone because his own personal valuations were not met, that alone would have him sacked at any top club, hell, I'm pretty sure pub teams wouldn't stand for that either if money was available.

He's a great man but nothing lasts forever, he's had his time in the sun. The biggest shame of all though, is that we have a board who do not give a fuck as long as the money is rolling in.

[Letters]

The scone was awesome :cool:
Scones :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

:haha:

[Özim]

There isn't another club in the world where a manager would hold onto his job as long as Wenger has delivering so little and compounding it by making the most ridiculous mistakes that anyone with half a brain could avoid making.

- His transfer policy is a total joke, he can't find better players than we have which is ridiculous seeing as we have some dogshite (and have had for years).
- His tactics are non existent
- His substitutions are nonsense
- His team selections - enough said about those

He's not bringing anything to the table for us now and hasn't for a number of years, he refuses to change things when they're not working, he's a dinosaur in a time when dinosaurs are extinct, but sadly we're stuck with him.

[Globalgunner]

The key to success in any walk of life is self motivation. it makes you want to be better just for its own sake. Ferguson had it in spades, he was also a monster, but apparently not a control freak. He understood the dynamics of achievement especially in the context of a team sport. That is why he dealt mostly with upper management executive decisions, buying players, team selection, etc, but he knew his limitations or better put he knew he couldnt do everything, this is why he had so much success with at least 5 different assistants in his time. At Arsenal, there is no change, in 16 years the same backroom staff except for the physio who left for England and was replaced by his brother. To me Wenger is motivated mostly by job security. He wants to stay in the job till he no longer feels comfortable. Not for him is the concept of failure an indication of redundancy. Every calamity is quickly brushed off and consigned to the bin marked; Bad luck.

If you are not motivated by success then inevitably failure/mediocrity becomes your constant companion.

As to our boardroom, It exists in name only. Cardboard cut outs who cant say boo to the manager, but only collect sitting allowances, they own next to no shares. Given our shareholding, Stan probably never speaks to any of them except the CEO. Wenger goes above all their heads and talks to the owner directly. So how is he accountable?. Only to the owner who cares for nothing except the bottom line. All Kroenkes teams are non performers. Include Arsenal in that stable. The only blame you can attach to the board members is that they have next to no shame.

[Letters]

There isn't another club in the world where a manager would hold onto his job as long as Wenger has delivering so little and compounding it by making the most ridiculous mistakes that anyone with half a brain could avoid making.

- His transfer policy is a total joke, he can't find better players than we have which is ridiculous seeing as we have some dogshite (and have had for years).
- His tactics are non existent
- His substitutions are nonsense
- His team selections - enough said about those

He's not bringing anything to the table for us now and hasn't for a number of years, he refuses to change things when they're not working, he's a dinosaur in a time when dinosaurs are extinct, but sadly we're stuck with him.

We finished 3rd and won (retained, actually) the FA Cup. :lol:
How can anyone as inept as you suggest possibly have overseen that?

[Dein-machine]

Come on Letters - even his own wife wants rid of him now - the life of the arrogant fraud is falling apart around him because of his reluctance to listen or change, both at Arsenal & at home, probably for a good few years now - but at least he won the FA cup twice.

[Dein-machine]

Only the twattiest of internet twats would ever regard him as a hate figure.

What I don't understand is...we did win the FA Cup last year, and the year before that. And finished 4th then 3rd. Wenger's hardly taken us into mid-table, or worse. Clough got Forest relegated and he's still revered up there, all Wenger's done is gone too long without a trophy and we've dropped from 1st to 4th - in no small part due to the billionaires.

We were a bit spoilt by the first half of Wenger's reign but some people's take on how bad things are is way overboard. With our resources we should be pushing harder but the level of criticism he gets is somewhat out of proportion. Moyes showed us what a properly poor manager can do when let lose at a big club.

I had this debate with you before. Your response is fine if you were a yid or a Liverpool fan but not for us. We pay the highest season tickets in the land on the back of moving to a new stadium built to make us a European footballing powerhouse - Wenger was part of the team making these promises. Making fans pay to be on the season ticket waiting list, all desperate to get seats to watch this new era of greatness, Spuds & Scousers were never promised this, they cannot moan about 3rd or 4th places because they weren't doing better than that before a stadium move resulted in the highest ticket prices in Europe - we were.
There has been no new era greatness - we have gone backwards since our Highbury days, we have been lied to on a massive scale, the ambition of the club so clearly highlighted with Wenger's summer transfer activity.
He deserves ALL & MORE criticism that he gets, especially from the board but he is untouchable. He has been rewarded with a 400% increase in salary during a time when he has taken us backwards in football terms, becoming the least successful manager in the history of the Champions league in games to wins ratio. He is a major player in the "Great Emirates Fraud" that we have all witnessed over the past decade & the early success (which he has clearly shown he has no idea how to replicate) is a distant memory.

[Letters]

Come on Letters - even his own wife wants rid of him now - the life of the arrogant fraud is falling apart around him because of his reluctance to listen or change, both at Arsenal & at home, probably for a good few years now - but at least he won the FA cup twice.

6 times, actually.

[Letters]

You don't understand what competition is Letters, therefore you can't understand the entirely justifiable criticism a supposed top manager at a supposed top club is attracting.
I do understand criticism. I have joined in with it. I just don't understand the extent of it and the ridiculous hyperbole about how terrible our situation is, from some.

I'm not going to go round and round the circle of the argument about the tail end of last season, it's boring. I understand your argument, I'm sure you understand mine. I don't agree with you and vice versa so let's move on. But the end result of last season was we finished 3rd and won the FA Cup. I may have mentioned that. Could be better, could be a lot worse. We all agree we need to push on and win the biggest prizes and so far the CL campaign has been a fiasco. The league results so far...well, we're in touch so for now that's good enough. I saw the Chelsea game as an important indicator but when the ref decided to start kicking the ball in the net for them all bets were off on that one. Now we have Utd at home - they're going to be there or thereabouts come May so if we're serious about a title challenge we have to win on Sunday. If we don't then fine, same old Arsenal. Ultimately a season should be judged at the end but during it you get indicators and Sunday is one, so long as the ref behaves himself. If we don't challenge for the title THIS SEASON then Wenger should go, especially if it's as a result of his failure to land a striker this summer, something it was clear we needed.

Your bus post, as funny as it was, is too simplistic. People talk about the "last 10 years" as if they should all be regarded in the same way. The fact is that in most of those years we had some financial restrictions while the billionaires were running amok. I personally think Wenger was a bit too cautious financially during those years but our long term future is better served by being too cautious than too reckless. Obviously we'll never know but I think we'd have won a title or two were it not for Chelsea and City buying half of them since we last won it. But a couple of years ago when the new financial deals were in place there was a clear difference in our spending power, players like Ozil and Sanchez are the result and it's made a difference, certainly to our trophy cabinet. And that means Wenger should be judged differently. We now have the money to seriously compete but we haven't had that for the whole of the last 10 years, it doesn't make sense to lump that whole period in together as one thing when the circumstances have changed.

The lack of a title challenge last year was a disappointment the two FA Cups have gone some way to make up for it. What we have to do this year is to push on. If we're champions come May then I won't be crying about a poor CL campaign. I think we're good enough to seriously challenge, I don't know yet whether we will but games like Sunday will tell us something.

[GP]

6 times, actually.

Pfft, I bet LOADS of managers have won it 6 times.

[Maestro]

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

OMFG NQ :haha::haha:, you didn't have to take it there ....the bloke had only gone to have his scone :shrug:

[Kano]

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

The driver doesn't have change of a tenner so Letters has to walk?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Letters drives now anyway.

[Letters]

:lol: Not very well.

[LDG]

:lol: Not very well.

With handbreak on?

[Letters]

Little bit <_<

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Without reading through the whole thread the question I'd ask....is, if your recruitment process is effective and you have a worthy successor, why do you want rid of him in 3 years time?

Like players, managers come and go, but unlike players it is not unreasonable for them to take 3 or even 4 years to properly settle or get their role depending on the situation they are coming in to...

...by which point you're then looking to show them the door as they are just getting it and the cycle continues and a part of what has just been built becomes obsolete.

[selassie]

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

:haha: Gold!

We need this one stickied, best post of the year. :lol:

[Letters]

The analogy doesn't stack up of course, but for comedy value I'd agree.

[Injury Time]

The analogy doesn't stack up of course, but for comedy value I'd agree.

Do go on :popcorn:

[fakeyank]

The analogy doesn't stack up of course, but for comedy value I'd agree.

It does.

[fakeyank]

Enjoy the scone but reconsider who is doing the patronising. If you don't appreciate that one then maybe this will help you understand plus it has the bonus of being genuinely patronising.

Letters needs to get from his house (point A) to his job (point B) every morning. It's a long drawn out journey so he takes the bus.

On day #1 the bus turns up, the drivers smiles and he conveys Letters from A to B in double quick time.
Same thing happens on day #2
Same thing happens on day #3 and for the whole week the journey keeps getting faster and faster. Excellent service. Well worth the money.

Next week comes along, Letters takes the bus as usual, driver smiles, puts his foot down and off we go. However, over the weekend roadworks have been set up, there's a hole in the middle of the road. So a small diversion is in place.

Problem is, the bus driver ignores the diversion and continues up the road past all the warning signs. Straight into the hole. Everyone survives and a few passengers grumble about the shitty bus driver who can't follow simple warnings. Letters writes it off as a lapse in concentration. After all, this driver did the business the week before.

Day #2 of the new week dawns. Letters hops on the bus, same driver (a bit patched up but still with a cheery disposition), off we go.

The fucker ignores the signs and drives the bus into the hole. WTF? Everyone survives and more of the passengers have a grumble - what is WRONG with this arsehole? Just follow the bloody sign! A few decide they will walk.

Day #3, on the bus, ignore the sign, bang. In the fucking hole.

Day #4, in the hole, Day #5 in the hole. By day #6 Letters finds he's the only passenger remaining. The driver is in casts and bandages, hardly recognisable but still smiling and chatting as if nothing has happened. But still, bang, in the fucking hole.

Letters asks the driver, what's up with that fucking hole? The driver replies, I am the bus driver - how many buses have you driven? He also notifies Letters the fares are being doubled from tomorrow.

Day #7 dawns.

Now then, what does Letters do?

Does he:

A: Get on the bus and wait until the end of the journey to judge things?
B: Ring the bus company and ask for a better driver?

Yes of course, he gets on the bus. Can anyone predict what happens next?

:haha: :haha: :haha:

I know that there is no voting in place 'yet' for one of the best post on GW ever, however I can say that this stands shoulder to shoulder alongside the confessions thread from old GW:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=19337&st=0

[GP]

Almost as funny as Phil Brown's Diary...

:MOe:

[Letters]

Do go on :popcorn:

Well, ok.

Firstly, a bus driving into a hole is a big calamity. Finishing 3rd and winning the FA Cup is a bump in the road at worst.
Secondly, as I said above, the last 10 years cannot all be assessed by the same criteria.
A better analogy is a series of buses who are racing.
For much of the last 10 years we have been racing with little bit handbrake on because of the new stadium debt while 2 of the other buses have expensive rocket boosters fitted, paid for by rich benefactors. And one of them didn't have the handbrake on and was being driven by one of the best drivers of all time. But yeah, our driver's a bumbling idiot for finishing the race behind some of them.

The last couple of years the bus with the best driver now has a more average driver and our bus is now able to be fitted with some rocket boosters. Therefore our driver should be judged by different standards, we are at less of a disadvantage. And while we may not have won the race the last 2 times, we've picked up a not insignificant consolation prize in each.
In the current race we are more or less keeping pace with the other buses but it's early in the race and I don't know what will happen at the end of the race. Others say it's obvious because of what happened in the last 10, I'm saying that you cannot use 10 years 'evidence' because the situation isn't the same in each of the last 10 years, it changed clearly 2 years ago and things have been better since. Not as good as we'd like them but better than before. Our driver had an opportunity to upgrade the bus before this race and probably didn't do enough, but we'll have to judge that at the end of the race, not near the start.

In any race there are difficult bends which must be negotiated, we had one a couple of weeks ago and skidded - but as the race officials decided to throw oil in our path as we were going round it I'm not sure we can conclude much from that. We have another on Sunday and how we negotiate it will give some indication as to how we're driving.


:coffee:

Analogies :bow:

[Coney]

:good: I think that is a decent analogy. Also, for the last 10 years, only 3 teams can claim that they did not want our 'problem'. Some of the posters on here clearly have not been with the Arsenal in the wilderness years and while sometimes things are frustrating, we are way better off than we used to be before Wenger turned up. I waited 18 years supporting the Arsenal before we finally won the league (in 1989) and many of those years in between we weren't even close.

As for this Ospina crap - this 'terrible' decision... We were playing one of the lesser sides in our group at home whereas we were playing manu at the weekend. It is not unreasonable to keep some people on the bench to make sure they are not injured before the manu game. Any manager in any situation has to balance risks without the benefit of hindsight and it was not unreasonable to balance who was played in the CL and the PL at the weekend. Of course, a clever manager would have known beforehand that Ospina would fumble a ball and accidentally concede a goal.

I dread to think what people would be posting if we were currently in Chelsea's position in the bottom half and with the second worse defensive record in the PL atm.

Other teams in the PL have not only learned techniques against the Arsenal - they have also learned how to play other top teams as well. Don't fall into the trap of the mass media reciting the 'accepted' mantra that it is just the Arsenal who don't like other teams parking the bus or 'getting in our faces' - code for kicking the shit out of the other team in a way that the ref lets them get away with it.

I am also frustrated that we did not find a goal scorer over the summer but I don't think Wenger is unaware of the requirement. We won't know why one was not bought but I am not convinced it is because Wenger did not look for someone.

[Niall_Quinn]

So the word is, don't look here, look over there. No change then. Silly excuses.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:good: I think that is a decent analogy. Also, for the last 10 years, only 3 teams can claim that they did not want our 'problem'. Some of the posters on here clearly have not been with the Arsenal in the wilderness years and while sometimes things are frustrating, we are way better off than we used to be before Wenger turned up. I waited 18 years supporting the Arsenal before we finally won the league (in 1989) and many of those years in between we weren't even close.

As for this Ospina crap - this 'terrible' decision... We were playing one of the lesser sides in our group at home whereas we were playing manu at the weekend. It is not unreasonable to keep some people on the bench to make sure they are not injured before the manu game. Any manager in any situation has to balance risks without the benefit of hindsight and it was not unreasonable to balance who was played in the CL and the PL at the weekend. Of course, a clever manager would have known beforehand that Ospina would fumble a ball and accidentally concede a goal.

I dread to think what people would be posting if we were currently in Chelsea's position in the bottom half and with the second worse defensive record in the PL atm.

Other teams in the PL have not only learned techniques against the Arsenal - they have also learned how to play other top teams as well. Don't fall into the trap of the mass media reciting the 'accepted' mantra that it is just the Arsenal who don't like other teams parking the bus or 'getting in our faces' - code for kicking the shit out of the other team in a way that the ref lets them get away with it.

I am also frustrated that we did not find a goal scorer over the summer but I don't think Wenger is unaware of the requirement. We won't know why one was not bought but I am not convinced it is because Wenger did not look for someone.

If Cech was an outfield player I might agree but Actually as you saw we put out a very strong first team so it wasn't a case of resting players for United.

And despite it being a must win game, Wenger decides to keep Ospina for non league games as a naive promise of game Time

[Globalgunner]

There is no must win game with this team. Remember, there is always next season.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There is no must win game with this team. Remember, there is always next season.

I am only using the managers own words

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:haha: :haha: :haha:

I know that there is no voting in place 'yet' for one of the best post on GW ever, however I can say that this stands shoulder to shoulder alongside the confessions thread from old GW:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=19337&st=0

Couldn't sleep last night too much beer and Thai food I suspect, I spent a good hour or so reading that link, have to say I think we could do with a resurrection of the confessions page.

[adzzzbatch]

Old GW was amazing :bow:

:rose:

[Globalgunner]

Old GW was amazing :bow:

:rose:

What happened to all those incredible people.?

[Kano]

That was when the General section was probably the best place on the site. I do wonder happened to Nozza, Pants Model, Flavs (although I don't think he's too long gone) Mr Brighterside, Cripps (he's on Goonersworld now) Coca Kolo, Kaiser. Quite a few more I can't remember. There used to be that guy in Spain who always used to get into tear ups with Zim (Ozim) too, can't remember his name.

[fakeyank]

What happened to all those incredible people.?

They got banned <_<

My favorite poster was this dude called Nine.. he was a Liverpool fan, and boy was that man an idiot of epic proportions! :haha:

And of course, I miss Cripps.. one of the best internet message board posters ever! :bow:

[Letters]

They got banned <_<
Oh piss off! Pretty much none of the old, good posters have been banned. It's incredibly hard to get banned from this place. Crips tried for years, we probably waited too long to ban him. Most people just drifted away. Shame, but people move on and in general I don't think message boards are as popular as they once were now people just set up FB groups and the like.

[GP]

Oh piss off! Pretty much none of the old, good posters have been banned. It's incredibly hard to get banned from this place. Crips tried for years, we probably waited too long to ban him. Most people just drifted away. Shame, but people move on and in general I don't think message boards are as popular as they once were now people just set up FB groups and the like.

Reddit. Gamechanger.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It is worth noting that a lot of people pissed off as a result of Cripps posting.

It was a real mistake on our part for not having banned him earlier.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[Letters]

Agreed. And I hold my hands up as it was usually me who voted to let him back on here :doh:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I was the fool who made the case for letting him back when we set up the new forum.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[Kano]

Gary :lol: awful mod

Cripps is over at Goonersworld, I wonder if he's reigned it in.

[Letters]

He had the capacity to be a decent poster so hopefully.
If he hasn't then I'm glad I don't look there, he ruined every thread he posted in - which was most of them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Some of his posts aren't particularly funny but I could not see what people were getting their panties in a twist about, the argument is he didn't contribute to any discussion because of low level trolling but end of the day I think there are several board users here who qualify on that score

[Power n Glory]

Has the forum been better off without him? That's the question really. Numbers are still dropping.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nah. He polluted every thread. People left and they cited the pile of crap that infected the board.

There is less posting here but the trend was down for a considerable time. That was one of the reasons behind the move from invision.

However the quality of posting is better and there is considerably less bitchiness.

And once Letters converts to the dark side the bitchiness will be complete.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[Letters]

:lol: You'll miss cheery Letters when we lose to Utd and I finally snap.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: You'll miss cheery Letters when we lose to Utd and I finally snap.

The fact that you said when suggests you're already on the precipice

[fakeyank]

Some of his posts aren't particularly funny but I could not see what people were getting their panties in a twist about, the argument is he didn't contribute to any discussion because of low level trolling but end of the day I think there are several board users here who qualify on that score

:gp:

Frankly, I never understood how his WUMming was any worse than what we see on here today...

[Özim]

:gp:

Frankly, I never understood how his WUMming was any worse than what we see on here today...

From what I can see the only ones who ever got banned were those who didn't have a positive opinion of Wenger, those who did never got banned.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:gp:

Frankly, I never understood how his WUMming was any worse than what we see on here today...

Absolute bullshit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

From what I can see the only ones who ever got banned were those who didn't have a positive opinion of Wenger, those who did never got banned.

Very few people got banned from here. You pretty much have to be a twat of epic proportions to manage it.

[LDG]

Very few people got banned from here. You pretty much have to be a twat of epic proportions to manage it.

Which does beg an obvious question....

[Xhaka Can’t]

Which does beg an obvious question....
Because I'm one of the mods.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[Kano]

From what I can see the only ones who ever got banned were those who didn't have a positive opinion of Wenger, those who did never got banned.

Zim you were the original standard bearer for the anti-Wenger argument. So who were you paying off to avoid being banned?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Maybe there should be a confessions page for the first time we started saying Wenger should go.

I've always been pretty fluid, I don't think it's unreasonable to state that fans are fickle and when we are going through a good spell I don't think about him slinging his hook that much.

Think the first time I remember saying I wanted him to go was about five years ago, coincided with the home defeat to Spurs and him shifting around on his seat in his sleeping bag jacket like he had a tape worm.

[LDG]

Maybe there should be a confessions page for the first time we started saying Wenger should go.

I've always been pretty fluid, I don't think it's unreasonable to state that fans are fickle and when we are going through a good spell I don't think about him slinging his hook that much.

Think the first time I remember saying I wanted him to go was about five years ago, coincided with the home defeat to Spurs and him shifting around on his seat in his sleeping bag jacket like he had a tape worm.


A couple of seasons back, when we won the first FA Cup. I thought that was a good time for him to go out on a high, and maintain the respect that he deserves for his services to the club.

There is a difference between me thinking he's a "cunt", and what I think is best for the club, however.

I still hold no ill will toward him. I just think it's time for something new, especially as the same mistakes keep getting made. I would like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong and win us the title. I would put my hands up, say I got it wrong, and celebrate it. Will that happen? Unlikely, because I just think we'll make the same mistakes again....it might be next week, it might be after an eight game winning streak, but my money is on us blowing it, when we have it in our hands to win the thing. All previous evidence points to that being the likely outcome....

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well at least we can say with a degree of certainty that it won't be next week but for me your post expresses how I feel.

I have no confidence that Wenger can deliver us the big prizes nor do I think he is doing everything in his power t do it. It is that which annoys me most. He is an exceptionally gifted man but his Achilles heel is his stubbornness in persisting with a philosophy that is repeatedly failing him and the Club. He desperately needs to surround himself with a strong and capable team that can effectively challenge him and support him, particularly in areas where he has weaknesses. The buck would still stop with him and that is what great leaders do, but we know he never will.

He will never become a hate figure for me no matter how much I want him to go because I simply can never forget what he did for this club for the first three quarters of his tenure.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it was the back end of 10/11 that I really felt Wenger was losing it and I personally thought it would be best to make a change. We lost the League Cup final and bombed out of the title race only winning something like 2 of our last 10 games. That summer we lost Fabregas and Nasri and started the season with a depleted squad and sunk to an all time low with the 8-2 loss. Then we went on that mad trolley dash and I thought Wenger didn't really have a grasp of things anymore.

I love the bloke and I would happily feast on humble pie should we win the league again under him. I don't see it but I live in hope.

[Letters]

From what I can see the only ones who ever got banned were those who didn't have a positive opinion of Wenger, those who did never got banned.

Any yet you're still here :shrug:

As Gary said: bullshit. Cripps was acually rapidly pro-Wenger for much of the time he was on here and was repeatedly banned for twattery. Our mistake was to keep letting him back. We learned our lesson in the end when we realised he wasn't going to learn his.

[Letters]

Maybe there should be a confessions page for the first time we started saying Wenger should go.
The Birmingham League Cup Final, think that was the first time I really snapped with him.
Like you, my position about him is fairly fluid and I don't think that's fickle - it is if it's just based on one off games but over time you get a different feel about the team.
Right now after two Cups I think he's earned the right to be our manager this season at least. If we don't properly challenge this year then I think he should go.

[GP]

The Birmingham League Cup Final, think that was the first time I really snapped with him.
Like you, my position about him is fairly fluid and I don't think that's fickle - it is if it's just based on one off games but over time you get a different feel about the team.
Right now after two Cups I think he's earned the right to be our manager this season at least. If we don't properly challenge this year then I think he should go.

Same for me. There's no way we should have lost that game.

[Letters]

No, and having gone so long without a trophy it would maybe have given everyone a bit of a boost, even if it was just the league cup.
That was the moment I thought we'd never win another trophy under him again, glad he's proved me wrong, I just hope we can push on now and have a proper league challenge this year.

[Niall_Quinn]

No way back, we need a new manager moment came at the tail end of last season when we were on a great run of wins, had the gypos under our heel but relented in the final few games and dropped right off the pace. It told me the things the fans want are different to what Wenger wants and the two will never be reconciled. Summer transfer window reinforced it. His team selections in the CL drove the nails home. Wenger winning another title is something I would delight in being 100% wrong about. But I'm not wrong.

[PGFC]

That was when the General section was probably the best place on the site. I do wonder happened to Nozza, Pants Model, Flavs (although I don't think he's too long gone) Mr Brighterside, Cripps (he's on Goonersworld now) Coca Kolo, Kaiser. Quite a few more I can't remember. There used to be that guy in Spain who always used to get into tear ups with Zim (Ozim) too, can't remember his name.

Elche...

[Kano]

That's the bugger. Oh and Captain Reynolds, I know you miss him in particular.

Probably still running that hugely successful BigFourForum or something.

[LDG]

Elche...

SHUT UP ELCHE!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't really remember many people's names on here

Apart from a few I met almost ten years ago (harking back to the days when we still had 606 forums) I have no proof you exist

[GP]

SHUT UP ELCHE!

:haha:

[LDG]

:haha:

Your finest moment tbf.

[GP]

I'll never top that.

Fucking hell, that was 6 years ago.

[Letters]

I don't even remember it.
Well, I do remember that everyone posted SHUT UP ELCHE for a while, I can't begin to remember why.
I'm sure it was funny at the time though.

[PGFC]

That's the bugger. Oh and Captain Reynolds, I know you miss him in particular.

Probably still running that hugely successful BigFourForum or something.

Captain Cockwash :lol: I thought he was still on here...

[Kano]

:lol: that was it. I thought it was Nine still knocking about under a different name. Hmmm.

[IBK]

A couple of seasons back, when we won the first FA Cup. I thought that was a good time for him to go out on a high, and maintain the respect that he deserves for his services to the club.

There is a difference between me thinking he's a "cunt", and what I think is best for the club, however.

I still hold no ill will toward him. I just think it's time for something new, especially as the same mistakes keep getting made. I would like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong and win us the title. I would put my hands up, say I got it wrong, and celebrate it. Will that happen? Unlikely, because I just think we'll make the same mistakes again....it might be next week, it might be after an eight game winning streak, but my money is on us blowing it, when we have it in our hands to win the thing. All previous evidence points to that being the likely outcome....

Well said. But also I think that often it's sheer frustration that makes some of the feelings about Wenger boil over - even from those (majority) Gooners who actually wish him well at heart. It's the feeling that but for addressing what seem like basic errors he could have recaptured the success he had with us at the start.

[LDG]

Captain Cockwash :lol: I thought he was still on here...

I think he pops back now and again, but not so much now Utd are shite.

[LDG]

I don't even remember it.
Well, I do remember that everyone posted SHUT UP ELCHE for a while, I can't begin to remember why.
I'm sure it was funny at the time though.

Zimm's Downfall :bow:

[Injury Time]

I'll never top that.

Fucking hell, that was 6 years ago.
There was some guy called Step or Steve or something, was okay I think...vaguely remember him or her...

[Xhaka Can’t]

I remember some moran called IT. All he ever did was buy you beer and edit your posts into something juvenile and unfunny.

Now there was a twat of truly epic proportions.


Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[Injury Time]

I remember some stud called IT. All he ever did was buy you beer and edit your posts into something juvenile and funny.

Now there was a hero of truly epic proportions.


Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

## :mwah:

[fakeyank]

I think it was the back end of 10/11 that I really felt Wenger was losing it and I personally thought it would be best to make a change. We lost the League Cup final and bombed out of the title race only winning something like 2 of our last 10 games. That summer we lost Fabregas and Nasri and started the season with a depleted squad and sunk to an all time low with the 8-2 loss. Then we went on that mad trolley dash and I thought Wenger didn't really have a grasp of things anymore.

I love the bloke and I would happily feast on humble pie should we win the league again under him. I don't see it but I live in hope.

For me, it was the 08/09 season where Denilson played 1000 games for us. There was a game that season where our midfield 4 against Stoke was Diaby Fabregas Denilson and Song. That pretty much had me give up on Wenger having much clue about tactics and formations (of that of a world class manager). Of course, this was a culmination of many horrible decisions but that was the game and the season where I knew that we will not be much of a 'world force' with Wenger at the helm.

[Power n Glory]

For me, it was the 08/09 season where Denilson played 1000 games for us. There was a game that season where our midfield 4 against Stoke was Diaby Fabregas Denilson and Song. That pretty much had me give up on Wenger having much clue about tactics and formations (of that of a world class manager). Of course, this was a culmination of many horrible decisions but that was the game and the season where I knew that we will not be much of a 'world force' with Wenger at the helm.

:lol: I remember those days. Denilson getting back to back games as DM drove me crazy. He’d get picked over Song for every game which was ludicrous. I think that along with Eboue getting games on the right was it for me. Heck, I remember Diaby was even getting games down the left.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger’s total number of days in charge of the Gunners is greater than the number of days combined of every other current Premier League manager while operating in the top division. The Frenchman has been in charge of Arsenal for 6,942 days and counting, celebrating his 19th anniversary last Thursday.

Every other Premier League boss combined can’t quite reach 19 years in charge, falling short on 6,938 days. Wenger wins the title by a country mile, with Stoke manager Mark Hughes finishing in second place just 6,085 days behind.



Manager Club Days in charge
Arsene Wenger Arsenal 6,942
Tim Sherwood Aston Villa 232
Eddie Howe Bournemouth 157
Jose Mourinho Chelsea 853
Alan Pardew Crystal Palace 275
Roberto Martinez Everton 851
Claudio Ranieri Leicester 83
Manuel Pellegrini Manchester City 842
Louis van Gaal Manchester United 447
Steve McClaren Newcastle 116
Alex Neil Norwich 134
Ronald Koeman Southampton 475
Mark Hughes Stoke 857
Garry Monk Swansea 607
Mauricio Pochettino Tottenham 495
Quique Flores Watford 121
Tony Pulis West Brom 276
Slaven Bilic West Ham 117



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3261861/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-charge-days-current-Premier-League-boss-COMBINED.html#ixzz3nnbBFXUf

[Kano]

:trophy:

Champions

[IBK]

Wenger’s total number of days in charge of the Gunners is greater than the number of days combined of every other current Premier League manager while operating in the top division. The Frenchman has been in charge of Arsenal for 6,942 days and counting, celebrating his 19th anniversary last Thursday.

Every other Premier League boss combined can’t quite reach 19 years in charge, falling short on 6,938 days. Wenger wins the title by a country mile, with Stoke manager Mark Hughes finishing in second place just 6,085 days behind.



Manager Club Days in charge
Arsene Wenger Arsenal 6,942
Tim Sherwood Aston Villa 232
Eddie Howe Bournemouth 157
Jose Mourinho Chelsea 853
Alan Pardew Crystal Palace 275
Roberto Martinez Everton 851
Claudio Ranieri Leicester 83
Manuel Pellegrini Manchester City 842
Louis van Gaal Manchester United 447
Steve McClaren Newcastle 116
Alex Neil Norwich 134
Ronald Koeman Southampton 475
Mark Hughes Stoke 857
Garry Monk Swansea 607
Mauricio Pochettino Tottenham 495
Quique Flores Watford 121
Tony Pulis West Brom 276
Slaven Bilic West Ham 117



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3261861/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-charge-days-current-Premier-League-boss-COMBINED.html#ixzz3nnbBFXUf

Yes I saw that list when I was thinking about this thread. And the million dollar question is whether this longevity has benefitted the fans, or an owner who patently sees the club as his cash cow (as opposed to having any passion for us to win things)?