Match Reaction vs Man Utd (home).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I quite enjoyed that.

:bow:

Second. :bow:

[PGFC]

Just about as perfect a performance as you could ask for really, shame on you Wenger.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

last Sunday watching match of the day repeat I thought to myself "United yet to play a decent team"

Well they have now.....been a long time coming :)

[GP]

2nd. Only 2 points off the top.

[GP]

Should be pointed out, didn't score today but Theo was super. Never stopped running.

[Coney]

Second in the league and 2 points behind Citeh.

"Wenger should be sacked for such a poor position and we should get a decent manager like Mourinho" - or words to that effect - is what I am expecting from the GW doomsayers.

[Niall_Quinn]

Second in the league and 2 points behind Citeh.

"Wenger should be sacked for such a poor position and we should get a decent manager like Mourinho" - or words to that effect - is what I am expecting from the GW doomsayers.

Why try to create grief after a result like that?

[Maestro]

Fucking brilliant result, absolutely brilliant. about time we thrashed these mongs and second in the table

wenger out

[Marc Overmars]

One of these freak periods of play where instead of being really wasteful, we dish out the pasting our play fully deserves. Alexis is a monster and I'm delighted Ozil put his mark on one of these games at last, Theo also channelled his inner Alexis with the work rate. The only shame really was that we didn't get a 4th.

Defended really well overall too, bread and butter for Cech every time they had a half chance.

Big performance, big result. Well done Arsenal. :bow:

[Letters]

Why try to create grief after a result like that?

It's too early to say whether he's trying to create grief :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger got the team right, got the tactics right and the players responded by getting the basics right and then pushing on to play some genuinely entertaining football. All you can ask for.

Second half, shame about that. Would have preferred to pulverise them. It was risky, one goal and who knows. But it worked out in the end.

Call me crazy but I say one day Alexis might be as good as Azzah.

[Master Splinter]

Arsenal :bow:.

Wenfer :bow:.

Alexis :bow:.

Theo :bow:.

Ozil :bow:.

Coquelin :bow:.

Bellerin :bow:.

Monreal :bow:.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sky's reaction - same old Arsenal.

:rolleyes:

[Letters]

Quite pleased, tbh.

[Marc Overmars]

Sky's reaction - same old Arsenal.

:rolleyes:

Turned it off. What did they say?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Carragher is crying, for some reason. :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Carragher seems a bit upset. Did he have his newspaper column pre-written? Oh dear.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Turned it off. What did they say?

Been here with Arsenal before, won against Man City as being the turning point, didn't happen.

Not good enough, not going to win the league, although then Carragher indicated we might if we bomb out the Champions League.

Weird.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Can't they analyse the game rather than talk about us existentially as a club? It's pathetic.

[Globalgunner]

Why try to create grief after a result like that?

Maybe hes mistaken and thinks weve already won the league. Not yet sonny, they give those out in May

[Maestro]

True Thiery .....fuck everything else, we simply must win the league or just forget about it tbh

[Niall_Quinn]

Can't they analyse the game rather than talk about us existentially as a club? It's pathetic.

If they analysed the game a certain genius might not look so clever.

[Niall_Quinn]

Twat Carragher laying into Ozil now. What a shit. Ozil has just dominated this game and they are slagging him.

[selassie]

Superb today, didn't see that one coming. Wenger certainly earnt his wage today because tactically he got it pretty much spot on. First 20 minutes was the best I've seen from Arsenal in a long time, it was a joy to watch us ripping them a new one, everyone of our Offensive players and Santi & Coq were superb.

2nd half we saw the game out well, at times I felt we gave them a little too much of the ball but we geninuely defended very well and broke with poise. We really need to make todays performance count because if we carry on playing like today we will challenge for the title, I have no doubts about that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Can't they analyse the game rather than talk about us existentially as a club? It's pathetic.

If even the match commentators can't do it, what chance the pundits

[Letters]

Maybe hes mistaken and thinks weve already won the league. Not yet sonny, they give those out in May

Mmm. That's kinda what I've been saying.

IMO, and clearly Coney's too, the reaction to our season so far has been a bit overly negative on here.
The CL games have been awful, the league campaign so far has been decent. We're in touch with the top, we just leapfrogged the team who were top before this weekend and comfortably won a game against a side we traditionally mess up against.

There's a long way to go but right now there are reasons for some optimism. I don't think we've driven into the hole just yet...

[Master Splinter]

Even Anthony Taylor failing to hand out the 34 yellows and 3 reds that Fellaini, Rooney, Youngy, Schweinsteigery and Carricky collectively deserved didn't allow United back in.

Apart from not winning 5-0 (Ramsey :doh:/Bif :doh:), that was a complete performance. Well, that and some slackness from Gabriel.

Once again though, a speedy speedster who's quick and has pace didn't give an immobile very slow lanky streak of piss like Mertesacker the torrid time he's predicted to have every game. It apparently happens every week, yet actual people who watch football have maybe seen it once per season. Just as it happens to every other defender in the League.

Memphis, Schweinsteiger, Darmian and Blind were useless and there haven't yet been words invented for how low Rooney has sunk. Schneiderlin, who's definitely three times the player Coquelin is, couldn't even get off the bench and seems to be behind two OAPs in the pecking order now.

Anyway, back to Arsenal. Ramsey has lost his powers in the box, but played well and didn't give United any breathing space. Alexis is Alexis. Theo superb. Ozil finally puts it all together. Coquelin brilliant as ever. Bellerin a really special talent. Monreal on steroids.

A Watford self-destruction is probably imminent, but some results can be enjoyed and the rare glimpses of immaculate football appreciated no matter what else happens.

[IBK]

Superb today, didn't see that one coming. Wenger certainly earnt his wage today because tactically he got it pretty much spot on. First 20 minutes was the best I've seen from Arsenal in a long time, it was a joy to watch us ripping them a new one, everyone of our Offensive players and Santi & Coq were superb.

2nd half we saw the game out well, at times I felt we gave them a little too much of the ball but we geninuely defended very well and broke with poise. We really need to make todays performance count because if we carry on playing like today we will challenge for the title, I have no doubts about that.

Yes. There have been other signs too (eg vs Leicester). We do need to work out, however, how we can turn it on so spectacularly but implode so spectacularly too. Its about getting the whole team focussed properly - and we still need evidence that we can do this consistently. Gotta enjoy this thrashing of our bogey team, though!

[Kano]

Brilliant today, well and truly buried those shits. Actually put the ball in the net after threatening to do the same last season instead of blowing it.

Oh and Sky can fuck off.

[Niall_Quinn]

Can anyone figure out WTF van Genius is talking about?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think he is focusing on winning the second half 0-0.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sorry, but is Schwiensteiger a problem now? Because earlier in the week Utd were back because of his performances. So which is it?

[Niall_Quinn]

Rodgers has gone!

[selassie]

Yes. There have been other signs too (eg vs Leicester). We do need to work out, however, how we can turn it on so spectacularly but implode so spectacularly too. Its about getting the whole team focussed properly - and we still need evidence that we can do this consistently. Gotta enjoy this thrashing of our bogey team, though!

Aye, that is the worry with this team, the talent is there...it's just the focus and application is still a major issue. I still can't get my head around today, the performance and desire of every one of those players was completely different to Tuesday's embarrassment.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Arsenal post match analysis on Sky is now all about Liverpool.

[Heisenberg]

So happy! :scarf:

[LDG]

Excellent performance. Blistering and clinical start.

Measured approach in the second, with Wenger responding and making a tactical change :o

Exactly waht we need, more of the same please. A joy to watch for a change :d

:scarf:

[Kano]

In other news, Bayern absolutely hammered Dortmund 5-1 today. I'm hanging onto this result today for as long as possible.

[Özim]

Great result, start was sensational, probably the best start I've seen in years from us, good win, can we win the title, not convinced but nonetheless a great result that has been a long time coming,

[Letters]

Great result, start was sensational, probably the best start I've seen in years from us, good win, can we win the title, not convinced but nonetheless a great result that has been a long time coming,

:blink:

Who are you and what have you done with Zim? :sulk:


Have to say I was surprised by the result today - thought we had a chance to win but didn't think we'd do so comfortably. I missed it unfortunately but am looking forward to watching the highlights.

I reckon we have a chance this year. City are looking like the team to beat although it is early days and I wouldn't completely rule out Chelsea, or Utd actually.

If we keep in touch then we've got a chance, our run in is pretty good, the penultimate game is at City so that could be decisive if we're still in the mix.

[Globalgunner]

Should have been a real thumping to make up for the 8-2 and 6-1, but anyways
The press: Your boys took a real beating today...and Im not talking about the Rugby

[dostoy]

Credit where credit is due.

I used to be a fan of Wenger, now not quite so much but he and the players did very well today.

We need to be consistent now and have a lot of luck with injuries.

Well done Arsene/Arsenal.

[alexander]

I had no faith that this team would beat ManU. When I checked the score after 30 mins, I feared the worst. But what a performance.

Well deserved and for a team in crisis (Ive been hard on them myself) but we find ourselves 2nd, 2 points from the top. Maureen is in meltdown, Rodgers sacked by Pool, Spurs looking usual dross, manU up and down also. Maybe its not all bad. Personally I would prefer us not to be in CL and deffo not Europa League, as i think it will only help us in the PL.

So, was this Wenger finally putting out a team tactically prepared to face ManU, or the players taking it upon themselves? Reminded me of the good old days when we just blasted teams away early, far too often these last few years we have been slow out the traps. Long may this continue.

[AFC Leveller]

by far our best performance at home in some time, we were so good i couldnt belive what i was watching.

What i think today proves is that this team can challenge properly and has the qualities to really go for it. The manager has got to earn his corn this season and take this team to the top.

[Marc Overmars]

Must say I was really impressed with Theo's assist for Ozil. The pass was simple enough but I would have put money on him having tunnel vision there and trying to comb a shot in, rather than take the time to compose himself and find a pass. Maybe a small indication that he's developing his all round game a bit better now he's first choice. Incredible work ethic today as well.

He looked visibly disappointed at being subbed. He's rarely played 90 mins for us.

[Kano]

I had no faith that this team would beat ManU. When I checked the score after 30 mins, I feared the worst. But what a performance.

Well deserved and for a team in crisis (Ive been hard on them myself) but we find ourselves 2nd, 2 points from the top. Maureen is in meltdown, Rodgers sacked by Pool, Spurs looking usual dross, manU up and down also. Maybe its not all bad. Personally I would prefer us not to be in CL and deffo not Europa League, as i think it will only help us in the PL.

So, was this Wenger finally putting out a team tactically prepared to face ManU, or the players taking it upon themselves? Reminded me of the good old days when we just blasted teams away early, far too often these last few years we have been slow out the traps. Long may this continue.

Believe it or not, Wenger actually came to the touch line to pass on a tactical change to Ramsey. It was shocking stuff.

[alexander]

Believe it or not, Wenger actually came to the touch line to pass on a tactical change to Ramsey. It was shocking stuff.

May be the old sod has listened.....

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Should be pointed out, didn't score today but Theo was super. Never stopped running.

I noticed don't worry! :d

[GP]

I noticed don't worry! :d

I wasn't worried. Never said I was worried.

[KSE Comedy Club]

What a game!!! :patrice:

Fair fucking play to everyone today and that includes the old goat :)

This also proves that Cech should be playing as much as possible :oldboy:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Should be pointed out, didn't score today but Theo was super. Never stopped running.


I wasn't worried. Never said I was worried.
:d Good.

Had he scored it would have been the icing on the cake......and I'd have bet on him doing so had he stayed on. It felt like it was only a matter of time till he got the better of them directly.

I see that the Golden child of GoonersWeb, Morgan S was on the bench too.... Hope he enjoyed the game from his front row seats.

[Injury Time]

Well I enjoyed that, now seen us win against United home and away :faint:
Any news on Sanchez, holding his groin/ no celebration as he went off...:upset: :unsure: :upset:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Probably just a strain, therefore back after the internationals.

[Globalgunner]

Coquelin too was great. Outclassed the United duo of Carrick and Schweinsteiger all by himself

[Niall_Quinn]

Neil Ashton :haha:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3259646/Arsene-Wenger-deserves-break-pressure-Arsenal-s-vintage-win-against-Manchester-United-vindicates-methods.html

[Dein-machine]

Awesome 1st half hour but I really wanted to smash those fuckers big time. We saw the quick passing, high pushing team that ended last season with 8 goals against West Brom & Villa but then turned into team playing too deep & hoping to counter which is the team that pubs results or loses to the top teams. Don't understand why we have to do this when we're so far on top. Anyway, 3 excellent points when you consider we played with 9 men for most of the game. Ramsey & Merts are simply awful.

[Niall_Quinn]

Tbf I thought Ramsey was excellent, apart from his composure in front of goal. He was very disciplined and did his midfield defensive duties well (freeing up Ozil to dominate the game), linked well with Theo and cut out the Hollywood stuff (in the main). Merts was okay too, apart from that dreadful moment where he was tossed around like a rag doll by Martial (who is half his size). For whatever reason, van Genius thought it was a good idea to put Martial up against Gabriel rather than Merts. I thought that was a good idea too, as I suppose did most Arsenal fans.

[Niall_Quinn]

Monday morning, after a game like that, is almost bearable. Being able to scan the sports section with both eyes rather than one eye closed and peeking from behind a raised hand, excellent. Neil Ashton crying across the back pages, calling for van Gaal to be shipped out and making every excuse under the sun for his team's pasting, such a nice change from his impartial gloating.

[Niall_Quinn]

Rio's pre-match prediction.


Rio Ferdinand thinks it is a matter of time before Manchester United start "blowing teams away" again.

United are challenging rivals Manchester City for top spot in the Premier League but have hardly been spectacular in their rise to the league's summit.

But uninspiring performances coupled with results has left Ferdinand optimistic about what United can achieve - because they have not reached their full potential.

Ferdinand has cited the clash with Arsenal as the potential season-turner, as he wants to see United start giving teams the 'fear factor' once again.

Writing in his Sun on Sunday column, he said: "If you can get to the top of the league and then start blowing a couple of teams away, it can quickly get the fear factor back.

[Power n Glory]

We’ve all been waiting a long time for that sort of performance. A fantastic result. Totally outclassed them and they barely had a sniff on goal. That’s the sort of reaction I had hoped for.

Ozil – What a bloody performance. Been calling for a big performance from this guy and he delivered. There is so much more to his game and he showed what he’s capable of. He looked ready for this one. He was directing the players, looked sharp on the ball, even showed a few tricks with the ball at his feet. Wonderful.

Sanchez – Has to be one of Wenger’s best signings.

Theo – Really proving himself up front. Didn’t score but got two assists and really helped stretch their defence. As Arseblog said, he’s serving up humble pie for the doubters. He’s learning and playing with intelligence. Solid.

Coquelin – Beast of a player. Really deserves more credit for the defensive shit he puts in and his cool ball distribution under pressure.

Monreal – Another unsung hero. Solid.

Cech – He didn’t have much to do but when he did…what a save.

Bellerin – The overlapping runs down the right. An extra weapon and doesn’t give us the jitters on defence.

Mr Wenger – That’s the response we want to see from the team. Prepared them well. Locked up shop and kept our discipline and concentration in the 2nd half. Made the right subs and didn’t unbalance the team. In fact, Ox was unlucky not to score and Bif should have.

This is a result to remember.

[Letters]

My only slight gripe, having now seen the highlights, is that we didn't really humiliate them. It wasn't going to be 8-2 but it could have been 5 or 6.
But that's splitting hairs. Overall it was a fantastic performance and result. This is the sort of performance I always thought we were capable of but we haven't seen enough of this season. We're not going to do that every game but we've shown we can pub team results too, I think we can properly challenge this year.

:patrice:

[Power n Glory]

Tbf I thought Ramsey was excellent, apart from his composure in front of goal. He was very disciplined and did his midfield defensive duties well (freeing up Ozil to dominate the game), linked well with Theo and cut out the Hollywood stuff (in the main). Merts was okay too, apart from that dreadful moment where he was tossed around like a rag doll by Martial (who is half his size). For whatever reason, van Genius thought it was a good idea to put Martial up against Gabriel rather than Merts. I thought that was a good idea too, as I suppose did most Arsenal fans.

Yeah, I think Ramsey was ok beside the two missed opportunities, one moment where he was caught sleeping in possession near our box and he another one of those blind back passes that could have ended in disaster. But he worked his socks off. Played a great pass into Theo for one of the goals. He just needs to start finding the goal.

Merts was the same. Kept Martial quiet for most of the game and Splinter is right. Another fast defender kept quiet. A couple of wobbles but in general, a solid performance.

[Niall_Quinn]

We’ve all been waiting a long time for that sort of performance. A fantastic result. Totally outclassed them and they barely had a sniff on goal. That’s the sort of reaction I had hoped for.

Ozil – What a bloody performance. Been calling for a big performance from this guy and he delivered. There is so much more to his game and he showed what he’s capable of. He looked ready for this one. He was directing the players, looked sharp on the ball, even showed a few tricks with the ball at his feet. Wonderful.

Sanchez – Has to be one of Wenger’s best signings.

Theo – Really proving himself up front. Didn’t score but got two assists and really helped stretch their defence. As Arseblog said, he’s serving up humble pie for the doubters. He’s learning and playing with intelligence. Solid.

Coquelin – Beast of a player. Really deserves more credit for the defensive shit he puts in and his cool ball distribution under pressure.

Monreal – Another unsung hero. Solid.

Cech – He didn’t have much to do but when he did…what a save.

Bellerin – The overlapping runs down the right. An extra weapon and doesn’t give us the jitters on defence.

Mr Wenger – That’s the response we want to see from the team. Prepared them well. Locked up shop and kept our discipline and concentration in the 2nd half. Made the right subs and didn’t unbalance the team. In fact, Ox was unlucky not to score and Bif should have.

This is a result to remember.

We expect to see this from Theo week in, week out now. He's shown what he can do, now time to start doing it consistently. He must have run twice the yardage he'd normally run so that's the new standard. Tackling too please, keep that up.

Of course they'll all probably come back dead from those shitty, shitty Internationals. Alexis is a particular worry, even if it's only a slight problem he has to play two games for Chile and we know he won't back off. It would be shit to lose players in meaningless matches so fingers crossed and hope for the best.

Ozil gliding about the place pointing to where he wanted the ball and ushering team mates into the space. More of that too please.

Wenger doing his homework and calling in-game tactics, yes we'll have that too.

False dawns? No thanks, bored of those, let's have a genuine turning point instead.

[selassie]

We’ve all been waiting a long time for that sort of performance. A fantastic result. Totally outclassed them and they barely had a sniff on goal. That’s the sort of reaction I had hoped for.

Ozil – What a bloody performance. Been calling for a big performance from this guy and he delivered. There is so much more to his game and he showed what he’s capable of. He looked ready for this one. He was directing the players, looked sharp on the ball, even showed a few tricks with the ball at his feet. Wonderful.

Sanchez – Has to be one of Wenger’s best signings.

Theo – Really proving himself up front. Didn’t score but got two assists and really helped stretch their defence. As Arseblog said, he’s serving up humble pie for the doubters. He’s learning and playing with intelligence. Solid.

Coquelin – Beast of a player. Really deserves more credit for the defensive shit he puts in and his cool ball distribution under pressure.

Monreal – Another unsung hero. Solid.

Cech – He didn’t have much to do but when he did…what a save.

Bellerin – The overlapping runs down the right. An extra weapon and doesn’t give us the jitters on defence.

Mr Wenger – That’s the response we want to see from the team. Prepared them well. Locked up shop and kept our discipline and concentration in the 2nd half. Made the right subs and didn’t unbalance the team. In fact, Ox was unlucky not to score and Bif should have.

This is a result to remember.

:gp:

Thought we defended fairly well too aside from one or two hairy moments. It really was close to a perfect performance as you can get, very disciplined and when going forward we were top drawer, especially in that first half. I honestly didn't think this team had a performance like that in them in a big game.

We need to take belief from yesterday's game because we will be in a very strong position if we can maintain that level of performance.

[LDG]

Still :cloud9:

I really hope we look within and understand that if you give it the effort, both before and during the game, you get the results.

We should be blitzing teams like that all of the time, not just in some games. If you want to win the league, then 75-80% of your matches have to be played like that. You will always get off days and bad patches, but they should be the exception, not the norm.

[Niall_Quinn]

Still :cloud9:

I really hope we look within and understand that if you give it the effort, both before and during the game, you get the results.

We should be blitzing teams like that all of the time, not just in some games. If you want to win the league, then 75-80% of your matches have to be played like that. You will always get off days and bad patches, but they should be the exception, not the norm.

Low possession for us again but a clinical use of the possession we had. The exact reverse of tippy-tappy. Tippy-tappy needs to die forever.

[Power n Glory]

We really need to see this level of performance week in week out regardless of opposition. They have it in them. They've shown that.

[Bumble]

Low possession for us again but a clinical use of the possession we had. The exact reverse of tippy-tappy. Tippy-tappy needs to die forever.

thought we were excellent and because of the fast start we didn't need possession. It often happens in reverse in big games where we go behind. have lots of the ball but create very little so the stats look misleading.

Thought the Cech save just before half time was immense. Had they scored the 2nd half could have been very different with our fragile confidence.

Does the game really prove anything or make any real difference over the season. No, just nice to beat United for once. Now we have to do it to Chelsea.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Great performance by the team, although I didn't think we had anything to fear from Utd, I thought the manner we went about the task was immense......obviously we won in that initial blitz but we are who we are and it never surprises me to see us let teams back into games.....but we didn't and defensively I thought we did a job to see out the game, should have had more and Ramsey needs to get his scoring mojo back. It cannot be underestimated what Cech brings to us.....the team is a completely different machine when he is in goal and I loved the reaction he gave at the end. I reckon he is a man on a mission and is pulling the team along with him.
Ozil is a player who frustrates with his apparent disinterest but when he is switched on, his lethargic way is sublime and I see him ticking when Sanchez is on fire......we are second and within touching distance, indifferent games against WHU and Pool, mugged against Chelsea but apart from those doing just as well as anyone else so not really our usual rubbish start to affairs

[Niall_Quinn]

I think the game proves a lot. Most importantly it proves some of our players have been under-performing. It also proves our manager can get the job done when he makes just a few compromises. Proves some of the plastic fans the club has attracted need to be booted out the door for good if they are that keen to leave their seats.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Low possession for us again but a clinical use of the possession we had. The exact reverse of tippy-tappy. Tippy-tappy needs to die forever.

That's not entirely true. It was low possession by the end but in that period of 20 minutes at the beginning we were near 70percent. Like you say, it's what you do with it that matters.

[Maestro]

What a lovely day at work today 😄

[Niall_Quinn]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/05/13/2D1C847E00000578-0-image-a-34_1444048958495.jpg

Theo successfully tackling Bastian Schweinsteiger and it's not even a Photoshop job.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyone seen Adrian Durham since Sunday?

[Niall_Quinn]

Look who's in the middle of it all. Awesome signing. Should be playing every game, always.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/05/12/2D1471BC00000578-0-The_Arsenal_players_celebrate_their_resounding_vic tory_against_U-m-33_1444045467006.jpg

(Notice the Utd player still bending over, wondering if it is over yet)

Also, 34, 24, 14, 4 - a bit spooky.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger, up on his feet, no coat, issuing orders. I keep thinking I'm going to wake up at any minute.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/05/12/2D15A29300000578-0-image-m-31_1444045282330.jpg

This is the Wenger we want.

[alexander]

Nice to come on here and read all positive posts (well, pretty much) none of the "good win, no thanks to WUMger" or "happy with the win, but Ramsey needs to be shot".
I hope this time its a corner turning event for us (there have been a few) and we really push on. Personally I believe we have great talent in the starting 11, and if the manager just gets them set up right, and mentally right, we could push the other top teams.
For now, Im loving the positive feeling after the game.

[alexander]

Look who's in the middle of it all. Awesome signing. Should be playing every game, always.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/05/12/2D1471BC00000578-0-The_Arsenal_players_celebrate_their_resounding_vic tory_against_U-m-33_1444045467006.jpg

(Notice the Utd player still bending over, wondering if it is over yet)

Also, 34, 24, 14, 4 - a bit spooky.

Ozil looking at Gabs hair "oooh, nice do there"

[Munchies]

http://i.imgur.com/AopwFUQ.gif


:lol:

[alexander]

Wenger, up on his feet, no coat, issuing orders. I keep thinking I'm going to wake up at any minute.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/05/12/2D15A29300000578-0-image-m-31_1444045282330.jpg

This is the Wenger we want.

exactly, the wenger I used to love, and have these last few years got tired of. Continue like yesterday, and he will win back my faith (in time) and others.

[Niall_Quinn]

On Alexis:


Wenger said: "He has a little groin problem.

"Unfortunately he goes to Chile. You cannot stop him from going to Chile and he loves so much to play for his country and he will play against Brazil [on Friday] and Peru [next] Tuesday so the game at home against Brazil he will not want to miss.

"Hopefully he will come back in good shape."

Looked like he had a massive groin and a bumper set on Sunday, ripped that Darmian bloke a couple of new ones.

But hopefully the Chile staff are a bit sensible. That's the trouble with these stupid internationals, they can use up the player and send him back clapped out without any consequences their end. Can't afford to lose this guy for any amount of time, he's the battery for the rest of the team.

[Globalgunner]

What this game has shown is that we certainly have the talent. So what has been missing?. I really feel we need a mentality change. The confidence in their own abilities and more importantly the ability to fight back against adversity. My greatest fear yesterday is that Utd would score before HT. If that had happened our all too familiar fragility would have reared its ugly head.

Now lets smash Bayern.

[Maestro]

What this game has shown is that we certainly have the talent. So what has been missing?. I really feel we need a mentality change. The confidence in their own abilities and more importantly the ability to fight back against adversity. My greatest fear yesterday is that Utd would score before HT. If that had happened our all too familiar fragility would have reared its ugly head.

Now lets smash Bayern.

What has been missing is competent and informed management. Wenget to his credit, delivered that in spades yesterday. He;

1. appeared to have motivated and focussed the team. they worked their socks off for 90 minutes ...all of them to a man, something that is usually missing from this team.
2. set the team up correctly, and they were tactically drilled especially the positioning and balance between attacking and defending
3. cajoled nd marshalled his troops from the touchline, ensuring they don't drop their levels, keep the opposition at bay and keep their shape
4. made coherent substitutions, and tactical adjustments to suit, showing bravery rather than going defensive ..as well as attentive in game management

...of course the team also played a big role, individually and as a group but i couldn't help noticing wenger doing all the things we are constantly crying out for him to do. last game we did this was when we beat city last season. united were beaten, tactically, technically, physically, mentally from the get go. it was a truly beautiful win, especially given our recent record against them. as mentioned by everyone we all hope this really is a turning point rather than the flash in the pan twice a season performance we have become used to.

not getting to excited as there is so many tough games to come, not least the double header with bayern ...and you also get the feeling city will have something to say about the title, we'll probably need to beat them and handle united again to have a real chance of challenging.

Wenger, that's all we've ever been asking for ....everyone needs to give absolutely everything.

[Injury Time]

What has been missing is competent and informed management. Wenget to his credit, delivered that in spades yesterday. He;

1. appeared to have motivated and focussed the team. they worked their socks off for 90 minutes ...all of them to a man, something that is usually missing from this team.
2. set the team up correctly, and they were tactically drilled especially the positioning and balance between attacking and defending
3. cajoled nd marshalled his troops from the touchline, ensuring they don't drop their levels, keep the opposition at bay and keep their shape
4. made coherent substitutions, and tactical adjustments to suit, showing bravery rather than going defensive ..as well as attentive in game management

...of course the team also played a big role, individually and as a group but i couldn't help noticing wenger doing all the things we are constantly crying out for him to do. last game we did this was when we beat city last season. united were beaten, tactically, technically, physically, mentally from the get go. it was a truly beautiful win, especially given our recent record against them. as mentioned by everyone we all hope this really is a turning point rather than the flash in the pan twice a season performance we have become used to.

not getting to excited as there is so many tough games to come, not least the double header with bayern ...and you also get the feeling city will have something to say about the title, we'll probably need to beat them and handle united again to have a real chance of challenging.

Wenger, that's all we've ever been asking for ....everyone needs to give absolutely everything.
This 100%. How many expect "lacked little sharpness" post international after Watford?

[IBK]

What has been missing is competent and informed management. Wenget to his credit, delivered that in spades yesterday. He;

1. appeared to have motivated and focussed the team. they worked their socks off for 90 minutes ...all of them to a man, something that is usually missing from this team.
2. set the team up correctly, and they were tactically drilled especially the positioning and balance between attacking and defending
3. cajoled nd marshalled his troops from the touchline, ensuring they don't drop their levels, keep the opposition at bay and keep their shape
4. made coherent substitutions, and tactical adjustments to suit, showing bravery rather than going defensive ..as well as attentive in game management

...of course the team also played a big role, individually and as a group but i couldn't help noticing wenger doing all the things we are constantly crying out for him to do. last game we did this was when we beat city last season. united were beaten, tactically, technically, physically, mentally from the get go. it was a truly beautiful win, especially given our recent record against them. as mentioned by everyone we all hope this really is a turning point rather than the flash in the pan twice a season performance we have become used to.

not getting to excited as there is so many tough games to come, not least the double header with bayern ...and you also get the feeling city will have something to say about the title, we'll probably need to beat them and handle united again to have a real chance of challenging.

Wenger, that's all we've ever been asking for ....everyone needs to give absolutely everything.

Good analysis. Problem is that we are used to seeing one standout performance like this from us every season. Reprising my other thread, is the problem not that Wenger cannot do it, but that after so much time he can't raise himself, and therefore the team other than on an ad hoc basis?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Still :cloud9:

I really hope we look within and understand that if you give it the effort, both before and during the game, you get the results.

We should be blitzing teams like that all of the time, not just in some games. If you want to win the league, then 75-80% of your matches have to be played like that. You will always get off days and bad patches, but they should be the exception, not the norm.
I'd like to see the effort applied to each game, but I can't help but feel this sort of game can only play out as such with a team ridiculous enough to believe they are better than us like Manure. A lot of the time our undoing is a dull, drab stalemate where we just can't score and the opposition are quite happy to sit back. When that happens, our ability to find the solution or to coin a Wengerism 'get them out of position' will be key.

I think that sort of game is more likely to be our undoing and though I still don't think we will win the league, I look forward and hope towards not thinking each big game is a foregone conclusion before we even play it.



http://i.imgur.com/AopwFUQ.gif


:lol:

LOL!!!! :d :d

[Coney]

https://www.facebook.com/Troll.Football/photos/a.345973325442890.83467.345971365443086/1602728766434000/?type=3&theater

[LDG]

https://www.facebook.com/Troll.Football/photos/a.345973325442890.83467.345971365443086/1602728766434000/?type=3&theater

It's funny because they called Smalling, Small.


:unsure:

[I am invisible]

So much to be happy about with Sunday's performance...

Alexis confirming that he's back...

Özil ramming a performance down his critics' throats...

The way the front 3/4 are really starting to 'click' - everyone creating for each other and getting goals...

The way the back 4 and the keeper are starting to 'click'...

The way the midfield 2/3 is managing to contribute to both ends and link everything together...

The manager getting the team pumped and his decisions spot-on...

...this is all fantatsic stuff to watch as a gooner!

Fair play to Theo again - he's really owning that CF role at the moment, and it's great to see him focussing on performance first, rather than waiting around anonymously for goals. This was pretty much exactly what I was saying that I wanted to see from him: apply that devastating pace of his to the defensive side of his game, add some of that lovely, Sanchezesque work-rate, and use it to hassle and press along the front line. If he continues to do that, then he's going to be a nightmare for defenders and holding midfielders, and will go from being a pushover to a bit of a bully - who'd have ever thought that?! That's the sort of shit that will win you the psychological battle against your markers every time, and really mess with their composure. Keep doing it, and the goals will follow - if not always for him, then at least for his team mates.

[GP]

It's funny

:haha:

[selassie]

On Alexis:



Looked like he had a massive groin and a bumper set on Sunday, ripped that Darmian bloke a couple of new ones.

But hopefully the Chile staff are a bit sensible. That's the trouble with these stupid internationals, they can use up the player and send him back clapped out without any consequences their end. Can't afford to lose this guy for any amount of time, he's the battery for the rest of the team.

Aye, I hope Alexis is OK, a little groin problem at Arsenal is never a little groin problem.

Arteta & Flams are both out at the moment with little muscular problems yet we hear nothing about return dates.

I think if Alexis is not 100% we can just about get away with resting him away to Watford but we'll need him back for the Everton game and especially the Bayern one.

[Power n Glory]

Aye, I hope Alexis is OK, a little groin problem at Arsenal is never a little groin problem.

Arteta & Flams are both out at the moment with little muscular problems yet we hear nothing about return dates.

I think if Alexis is not 100% we can just about get away with resting him away to Watford but we'll need him back for the Everton game and especially the Bayern one.

Now that we know the players and manager have a next level to their game, we’re now looking on to the next barrier to our title challenge. Injuries and fitness. We have to pray that Alexis, Coquelin and Theo stay fit otherwise it’s curtains.

[Power n Glory]

What has been missing is competent and informed management. Wenget to his credit, delivered that in spades yesterday. He;

1. appeared to have motivated and focussed the team. they worked their socks off for 90 minutes ...all of them to a man, something that is usually missing from this team.
2. set the team up correctly, and they were tactically drilled especially the positioning and balance between attacking and defending
3. cajoled nd marshalled his troops from the touchline, ensuring they don't drop their levels, keep the opposition at bay and keep their shape
4. made coherent substitutions, and tactical adjustments to suit, showing bravery rather than going defensive ..as well as attentive in game management

...of course the team also played a big role, individually and as a group but i couldn't help noticing wenger doing all the things we are constantly crying out for him to do. last game we did this was when we beat city last season. united were beaten, tactically, technically, physically, mentally from the get go. it was a truly beautiful win, especially given our recent record against them. as mentioned by everyone we all hope this really is a turning point rather than the flash in the pan twice a season performance we have become used to.

not getting to excited as there is so many tough games to come, not least the double header with bayern ...and you also get the feeling city will have something to say about the title, we'll probably need to beat them and handle united again to have a real chance of challenging.

Wenger, that's all we've ever been asking for ....everyone needs to give absolutely everything.

:gp:

[mastermind84]

:gp:

You were right about Theo. I was concerned of his play when he wasn't taking chances and he has quelled that the last 3 weeks for me.:good:

[selassie]

Now that we know the players and manager have a next level to their game, we’re now looking on to the next barrier to our title challenge. Injuries and fitness. We have to pray that Alexis, Coquelin and Theo stay fit otherwise it’s curtains.

Yep, I think if we can keep everybody relatively fit, esp the three you have mentioned...don't laugh! Then we are in with a geniune chance as long as we keep the consistency levels high.

[Power n Glory]

You were right about Theo. I was concerned of his play when he wasn't taking chances and he has quelled that the last 3 weeks for me.:good:

No worries. Just glad to see he’s finally getting a run up front. He’ll grow in that role as he keeps playing. You can see how he’s progressing quickly and is now contributing with assists and creating space for others. It’s looking promising so far and I wish we’d have tried this much earlier.

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's not do this after one game - AGAIN. Let's just relax, enjoy the win and wait and see what happens next time this lot are on a pitch. Then we'll have a much better idea where we really are.

The problem the manager and the team are going to have now is they have shown us what they can do. Hard for them to shirk from here on without getting a ton of stick. As much as it could and should be the step up to where we want to be all the time, it could also be the last straw if we drop down several levels and take Watford for granted. I really hope some lesson have stuck this time.

I also hope we don't get carried away against Bayern. We won't be doing to them what we did to Utd. The two Bayern games are entirely different affairs and we'll need Plans A, B and C to get the results we need. But if we can keep on getting the basics as right as we saw on Sunday, the passing, the movement, the use of the wide players, we'll give them a game at least.

Goes without saying Cech needs to be inked onto the team sheet from now on.

People are going to say it's hindsight, but I had a feeling Theo would step up a level this season. That's why I changed my mind about him in the summer and was glad when he stayed. After Sunday he's looking a bargain at £140k pw (relatively speaking of course). Damn glad he's not tearing it up for the chavs instead. They are the ones with the striking problem now. Falcao :haha:

[LDG]

Yep, I think if we can keep everybody relatively fit, esp the three you have mentioned...don't laugh! Then we are in with a geniune chance as long as we keep the consistency levels high.

Whilst it would be wonderful if we could blow teams away like that week in week out, we won't be quite as lucky with the space we were afforded on Sunday, every week. Leicester also showed they were happy to come out against us rather than sitting, and also got punished. Any manager worth their salt will be looking to sit against us from now on, rather than let us play through the inside channels on the counter attack.

Unfortunately, many of our matches will find us playing with 10 men in front of us, and limited space. This will entirely change the questions asked of us. What we need to know, is does this team have it in them to break teams down week in week out? It's an entirely different game when we end up passing sideways across the pitch....which is why a fit and form Giroud is crucial if we want to push on.....

[Power n Glory]

Whilst it would be wonderful if we could blow teams away like that week in week out, we won't be quite as lucky with the space we were afforded on Sunday, every week. Leicester also showed they were happy to come out against us rather than sitting, and also got punished. Any manager worth their salt will be looking to sit against us from now on, rather than let us play through the inside channels on the counter attack.

Unfortunately, many of our matches will find us playing with 10 men in front of us, and limited space. This will entirely change the questions asked of us. What we need to know, is does this team have it in them to break teams down week in week out? It's an entirely different game when we end up passing sideways across the pitch....which is why a fit and form Giroud is crucial if we want to push on.....

I think Giroud is the worst player to have when a team sits deep against us. The lack of movement doesn’t create space for others and the opposition find it easy to mark him. Despite his lack of pace, he’s better when the game is more open and we’re on the counter. When he makes a well timed run into the box, unmarked and with the ball being whipped in or cut back, he fairs a lot better. But we’ll need him back on form.

But I thought we shredded United open for our first two goals and created our own space even though they were defending from deep. After the first two goals they were pushing forward more. I thought that game was a mixture. We had them pinned back from the opening minutes but we were clinical. We carve open teams that sit deep as well, just as long as we’re moving and passing with purpose. The one thing I hate is when we play with Giroud as the target man, everyone is looking for one twos or the short yard pass back from him. It just makes everything so static and doesn’t shift defenders. It’s very easy to defend against.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's the tempo that's so important, no matter who plays. The tempo and the accurate passing. Too many times we play that plodding pace and I think it puts the players off, the get lazy and careless with the passing.

[Power n Glory]

It's the tempo that's so important, no matter who plays. The tempo and the accurate passing. Too many times we play that plodding pace and I think it puts the players off, the get lazy and careless with the passing.

Very true. But I also think the tempo relates to the pace up front and the movement. It goes back to what I've always thought about the balance of the squad. Lack of runners and off the ball movement.

[Letters]

Let's not do this after one game - AGAIN.:
I agree, but people on here over-react after one bad game. Football fans are reactionary.

IMO we're good enough to challenge this year. I've kept saying that because I genuinely believe it but I would agree we've not seen a huge amount of evidence to back that up. We saw it on Sunday though. The trick is to get consistent. I don't expect that level every game, that is unrealistic and no team does that, but we have to stop switching off and thinking we just need to turn up and win.

[Power n Glory]

Is anyone really over board? What are you guys seeing here that I'm not? Nothing wrong with praising the performance of the players and manager without going into the negatives.

[IBK]

Is anyone really over board? What are you guys seeing here that I'm not? Nothing wrong with praising the performance of the players and manager without going into the negatives.

Aye - in fact its only fair to enjoy and praise a good performance when we have been criticising the dross. I used to bang on about this all the time. Football supporting is an emotional business. i donpt think its fair that so many on here are seen as 'over-reacting' to one bad result. The over-reaction from most in these situations is because often a bad performance from us is not a stand alone thing - its a repetition of failings or obvious mistakes that have characterised the team for years - so its criticism born of frustration. Similarly, its been instructive to see that no-one is gettigng carried away with Saturday's win. If we show the same kind of performance over the next half-dozen wins, then the reaction to a disappointing result will become more measured, I am sure.

[Dein-machine]

No - people react on here because we've had a decade of "last weeks". You & I were debating on another thread where I told you whilst I enjoyed the game against Leicester & the way we attacked I wasn't over excited because we have become used to what happens next. Then 3 days later we have the shambles of a performance against the Greeks. Its not just one game, its regularly occurring every year.
Reasons for this weeks rollercoaster of a ride.
1, If we had started all 3 games on the front foot & hungry, aggressive - moving the ball quickly & taking our chances then we would have beaten the Greeks by a few goals aswell.
2, If we had started with Cech in goal for all 3 games there is a very good chance that we wouldn't have given the Greeks the belief they had with a half time lead.
3, If we had players playing with consistency rather than 1 game on 1 game off then we also would be winning all 3 games. In the same way that Bayern won all their 3 games in the same week by convincing margins, consistency with quality players in all positions (none costing more than Ozil cost us).

The key words are quality & consistency. Consistency breads quality but you need the quality in the 1st place to become consistent. We have two many players who's quality will never lead to consistency & we don't deal with these weak links in the transfer window.

[IBK]

Whilst it would be wonderful if we could blow teams away like that week in week out, we won't be quite as lucky with the space we were afforded on Sunday, every week. Leicester also showed they were happy to come out against us rather than sitting, and also got punished. Any manager worth their salt will be looking to sit against us from now on, rather than let us play through the inside channels on the counter attack.

Unfortunately, many of our matches will find us playing with 10 men in front of us, and limited space. This will entirely change the questions asked of us. What we need to know, is does this team have it in them to break teams down week in week out? It's an entirely different game when we end up passing sideways across the pitch....which is why a fit and form Giroud is crucial if we want to push on.....

A fit and in form Giroud would be crucial if we concentrated more on crossing from wide positions rather than the slow build up that tends to happen when players (Ramsey; Ozil) come inside into congestion. I am not a Giroud detractor, and I think that he will respond to healthy competition up front from Walcott - that will also prevent him becoming knackered, which often happens. But Wenger has to learn to play to his strengths, and this means crosses, and runners into the box.

[IBK]

No - people react on here because we've had a decade of "last weeks". You & I were debating on another thread where I told you whilst I enjoyed the game against Leicester & the way we attacked I wasn't over excited because we have become used to what happens next. Then 3 days later we have the shambles of a performance against the Greeks. Its not just one game, its regularly occurring every year.
Reasons for this weeks rollercoaster of a ride.
1, If we had started all 3 games on the front foot & hungry, aggressive - moving the ball quickly & taking our chances then we would have beaten the Greeks by a few goals aswell.
2, If we had started with Cech in goal for all 3 games there is a very good chance that we wouldn't have given the Greeks the belief they had with a half time lead.
3, If we had players playing with consistency rather than 1 game on 1 game off then we also would be winning all 3 games. In the same way that Bayern won all their 3 games in the same week by convincing margins, consistency with quality players in all positions (none costing more than Ozil cost us).

The key words are quality & consistency. Consistency breads quality but you need the quality in the 1st place to become consistent. We have two many players who's quality will never lead to consistency & we don't deal with these weak links in the transfer window.

Not sure why you are disagreeing with my post, given that you agree with my 2 main points :unsure:

As for your specific observations - we have started quickly in a number of games - including Olympiacos. The difference being that we haven't finished our chances in that opening period - whereas against Manure we converted almost every one. Both Cech, and the players' attitude and commitment in defence are crucial, though - and this attitude and commitment are what we need to see on a consistent basis. The irony is that it should be much easier to ensure that your players are 100% up for each game than it is to ensure that they are on song technically.

[Dein-machine]

Let's not do this after one game - AGAIN.

This - Come on guys, let use the superior brain power than God blessed Arsenal fans with & not sound like the fickle idiots that I see from other teams. It was less than a week ago when most on here we're righting us off as absolute no hopers

[Power n Glory]

Aye - in fact its only fair to enjoy and praise a good performance when we have been criticising the dross. I used to bang on about this all the time. Football supporting is an emotional business. i donpt think its fair that so many on here are seen as 'over-reacting' to one bad result. The over-reaction from most in these situations is because often a bad performance from us is not a stand alone thing - its a repetition of failings or obvious mistakes that have characterised the team for years - so its criticism born of frustration. Similarly, its been instructive to see that no-one is gettigng carried away with Saturday's win. If we show the same kind of performance over the next half-dozen wins, then the reaction to a disappointing result will become more measured, I am sure.

It’s been measured and the praise has been good. But I think it’s about to get ugly. Letters again. :lol: The negative outpour doesn’t come from one bad result. We’ve discussed this so many times on here and it’s not worth going over again. We just need to give credit where it’s due when we perform like this without getting carried away.

[Dein-machine]

Not sure why you are disagreeing with my post, given that you agree with my 2 main points :unsure:

As for your specific observations - we have started quickly in a number of games - including Olympiacos. The difference being that we haven't finished our chances in that opening period - whereas against Manure we converted almost every one. Both Cech, and the players' attitude and commitment in defence are crucial, though - and this attitude and commitment are what we need to see on a consistent basis. The irony is that it should be much easier to ensure that your players are 100% up for each game than it is to ensure that they are on song technically.

No sorry IBk, was responding to Letters but didn't do "reply with quote"!!

Agree with what you say but the reason we aren't finishing the hundreds of chances we create is consistency. We don't have a quality, consistent striker & we haven't had one since RVP. But we continue without, every year & will probably do the same in Jan window aswell as next Summer because our manager continues to argue the obvious. This will mean performamces like West Ham & Olympiakos, plenty of possession & chances but losing games, & the monotonous cycle continues.

[Power n Glory]

A fit and in form Giroud would be crucial if we concentrated more on crossing from wide positions rather than the slow build up that tends to happen when players (Ramsey; Ozil) come inside into congestion. I am not a Giroud detractor, and I think that he will respond to healthy competition up front from Walcott - that will also prevent him becoming knackered, which often happens. But Wenger has to learn to play to his strengths, and this means crosses, and runners into the box.

I hold a similar opinion. Giroud isn’t good in tight spaces. He has his moments but I also think he’s better when someone is crossing to him. Counter attacks. It makes sense if Wenger is saying statistically he scores more with his first touch.

[IBK]

This - Come on guys, let use the superior brain power than God blessed Arsenal fans with & not sound like the fickle idiots that I see from other teams. It was less than a week ago when most on here we're righting us off as absolute no hopers

Who exactly is painting us as world beaters after one good game. Far as I can see people are simply enjoying a great result over a traditional rival - which surely is what being a fan is all about. I am seeing a rather equivocal opinion generally as to whether this signals any real change - which is as you say completely justified.

[IBK]

No sorry IBk, was responding to Letters but didn't do "reply with quote"!!

Agree with what you say but the reason we aren't finishing the hundreds of chances we create is consistency. We don't have a quality, consistent striker & we haven't had one since RVP. But we continue without, every year & will probably do the same in Jan window aswell as next Summer because our manager continues to argue the obvious. This will mean performamces like West Ham & Olympiakos, plenty of possession & chances but losing games, & the monotonous cycle continues.

Fair enough mate. If I had to call it, I would agree 100% that what we have seen for so many years is not going to change fundamentally now. We've been led to believe too many times that things will change. Be nice if we could put a dozen similar performances together - but we have seen even this over the past few seasons only to fail over the whole season!

[mastermind84]

No worries. Just glad to see he’s finally getting a run up front. He’ll grow in that role as he keeps playing. You can see how he’s progressing quickly and is now contributing with assists and creating space for others. It’s looking promising so far and I wish we’d have tried this much earlier.

he probably wasnt ready, but its happening now and its added an element to our attack that wasnt there before.

The problem is the right side. Ramsey did a good job on Sunday but he hasnt got the speed to do it out there and he is our best CM. Santi's legs are gone. Ox isnt really a threat out there and is often better for the opponent. Its a big issue.

[Dein-machine]

he probably wasnt ready, but its happening now and its added an element to our attack that wasnt there before.

The problem is the right side. Ramsey did a good job on Sunday but he hasnt got the speed to do it out there and he is our best CM. Santi's legs are gone. Ox isnt really a threat out there and is often better for the opponent. Its a big issue.

Agreed. We are playing Ramsey because he has a good engine & does his defensive duties, he is no longer an attacking threat & his distribution is woeful. He should be used as sub to give Santi or Ozil a rest when a game is won until he gets back to the player he was 2 years ago. Marne from the Saints would solve the right hand side issue & be able to switch in & out with Walcot during a game. Sanchez, Walcot & Marne being fed by Santi & Ozi has a good feel about it.

[IBK]

he probably wasnt ready, but its happening now and its added an element to our attack that wasnt there before.

The problem is the right side. Ramsey did a good job on Sunday but he hasnt got the speed to do it out there and he is our best CM. Santi's legs are gone. Ox isnt really a threat out there and is often better for the opponent. Its a big issue.

I think Ox needs to be persevered with out right, and Ramsey needs to be tried in the CM position. I like Santi, but with Ozil on the left, and Alexis who can dribble and pass pretty much as well, I wonder if he is often a bit of a luxury in the team.

[AFC Leveller]

I think its worth pointing out that Spuds recently smashed City 4-1, a good result of course but would they consider themselves ready to challenge after one result?

Just asking....

[Power n Glory]

he probably wasnt ready, but its happening now and its added an element to our attack that wasnt there before.

The problem is the right side. Ramsey did a good job on Sunday but he hasnt got the speed to do it out there and he is our best CM. Santi's legs are gone. Ox isnt really a threat out there and is often better for the opponent. Its a big issue.

It's possible but I've always thought he'd have benefitted from starting early. Especially after that Newcastle hat trick. He was electric. But we'll see how he fairs as the season goes on.

I thought Ramsey made some important passes on Sunday. For once he didn't look totally out of the loop but it's no long term solution. He's not confident playing there. Ox has to step his game up and claim that spot because although Ramsey isn't ideal, I really don't know how Ox will play. At least with Bellerin overlapping we get some sort of wing play down that side. But yes, it's an issue and we need someone to step their game up because there are no obvious candidates for the right at the moment.

[Letters]

No - people react on here because we've had a decade of "last weeks".

I think that's a bit of a simplification. And in the last 2 seasons we've won a trophy in each. People react because people get emotional about football and that seems to make them irrational. We lost at West Ham and it was all "woe is me, we have no chance." I was roundly criticised for saying that maybe, just maybe, it's a little early to be throwing in the towel after one game.


You & I were debating on another thread where I told you whilst I enjoyed the game against Leicester & the way we attacked I wasn't over excited because we have become used to what happens next. Then 3 days later we have the shambles of a performance against the Greeks. Its not just one game, its regularly occurring every year.

It is, but it's happening to every team every year. Maybe to us more than most but no team is completely consistent. City sweep all before them and then lost to West Ham and then get hammered at WHL of all places.


The key words are quality & consistency. Consistency breads quality but you need the quality in the 1st place to become consistent. We have two many players who's quality will never lead to consistency & we don't deal with these weak links in the transfer window.

I disagree about the quality of our players, I think we're good enough to challenge properly.
I agree to an extent about not dealing with the weaker links - notably up front. My take on the summer's dealings, or lack thereof, is that Wenger didn't see the point in signing another Wellbeck, either sign someone who will push us - another like Sanchez or Ozil - or don't bother. If that is what happened then I agree with that, but the problem is he failed to land the big signing (it seems like he was chasing Benzema). If the result of that is we fail to challenge then he should be sacked. If Sanchez keeps his shooting boots on and Walcott stays fix then we might just have enough up front after all.

As I keep saying, Wenger should be ultimately judged next May. He shouldn't be judged after a poor result vs West Ham or a good one vs Utd. Obviously each game will change and shape options and the frustrations of the last 10 years will colour those opinions. So long as we stay in touch I'll feel we have a chance. We have a good run in - City away is our penultimate game, interestingly - and if we're in touch with 10 games to go I wouldn't write us off.

The key for now is to build on that Utd game and get a bit of momentum going.

[Letters]

I think its worth pointing out that Spuds recently smashed City 4-1, a good result of course but would they consider themselves ready to challenge after one result?

Just asking....

:lol:

No, but then they're not a side who ever challenge for the title, I don't even think they have top 4 pretensions this year let alone title hopes.

[Kano]

he probably wasnt ready, but its happening now and its added an element to our attack that wasnt there before.

The problem is the right side. Ramsey did a good job on Sunday but he hasnt got the speed to do it out there and he is our best CM. Santi's legs are gone. Ox isnt really a threat out there and is often better for the opponent. Its a big issue.

The reason Ramsey plays there is because of his defensive work and coming into the middle of pitch to act as another man and keep the passes going. Wenger has settled on Santi/Coq in the middle and Ramsey is going to stay where he is I think.

Also, interesting to read that the players had a separate meeting to gee themselves up for this game, making it a game 'for the manager'. Souness said after the game that was a weakness and I tend to agree - it should be the manager getting the team prepared mentally and physically for the game, not just a reaction by the players on behalf of the manager. Theo was saying 'we need to do more of this' but I'm not sure if that is possible if the key motivator is all wrong.

[Power n Glory]

I think that's a bit of a simplification. And in the last 2 seasons we've won a trophy in each. People react because people get emotional about football and that seems to make them irrational. We lost at West Ham and it was all "woe is me, we have no chance." I was roundly criticised for saying that maybe, just maybe, it's a little early to be throwing in the towel after one game.

Really?

And then you follow up with this simplified response.


People react because people get emotional about football and that seems to make them irrational. We lost at West Ham and it was all "woe is me, we have no chance."

Knock it off, man.

[Kano]

Really?

And then you follow up with this simplified response.



Knock it off, man.

That produced a genuine :lol:

[Letters]

And then you follow up with this simplified response.

Have a look back at the match reaction thread :good:

[Power n Glory]

The reason Ramsey plays there is because of his defensive work and coming into the middle of pitch to act as another man and keep the passes going. Wenger has settled on Santi/Coq in the middle and Ramsey is going to stay where he is I think.

Also, interesting to read that the players had a separate meeting to gee themselves up for this game, making it a game 'for the manager'. Souness said after the game that was a weakness and I tend to agree - it should be the manager getting the team prepared mentally and physically for the game, not just a reaction by the players on behalf of the manager. Theo was saying 'we need to do more of this' but I'm not sure if that is possible if the key motivator is all wrong.

I’m not surprised by the players having to gee themselves up. Invincible members will often say Sol Campbell really rallied them by constantly huddling the team and saying ‘together’. Wenger just seems too impassive at times. Stories circulated that he lost it with them in training and that must have had an effect. But we’ve heard stories like this before. I think it was a Liverpool game we were losing at half time and he just laid into them and they came out a totally different team. He doesn’t like doing things that way but that’s what’s held him back from being a true great. I think he trusts his players to mentally prepare themselves too often and then just sends them into battle.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think Ox needs to be persevered with out right, and Ramsey needs to be tried in the CM position. I like Santi, but with Ozil on the left, and Alexis who can dribble and pass pretty much as well, I wonder if he is often a bit of a luxury in the team.

Ox coming off the bench is okay at the moment I think. He had a good pre-season and had the opportunity to grab a starting spot but he hasn't really taken it. He's been dangerous up top but a bit of a liability defensively. But he'll mature into a very good player if he can sort out a few issues in his game. He might be the most likely candidate to come under pressure from outside interests next summer, I don't think Maureen was kidding about wanting him as part of the Cech deal. We'll need to keep him busy at Arsenal so he has the incentive to stick around long term.

I can't think of any player in the country who could have done a better job than Santi in the middle on Sunday. But that was against a team set up by an arrogant cock of a manager who thought he had more capable players. Santi doesn't do as well against more compact opposition who are more, how shall we say it, "English" in their approach to the game. This is where the squad rotation and Plan A, B, C could help us out a lot. And fewer games for the key players might mean fewer injuries and suspensions. I hope that's what we are going to see, a manager who starts appreciating and respecting every opponent and who finds an efficient way to organise and utilise the resources we have.

We also need more from our captain and vice-captains. It's time to start taking those roles seriously again. These guys should be a constant example and a constant reminder of what is expected at this club. They all sound like model citizens off the pitch, I think they need an alter-ego when on it. A bit more authoritative and bastardy please.

[IBK]

Ox coming off the bench is okay at the moment I think. He had a good pre-season and had the opportunity to grab a starting spot but he hasn't really taken it. He's been dangerous up top but a bit of a liability defensively. But he'll mature into a very good player if he can sort out a few issues in his game. He might be the most likely candidate to come under pressure from outside interests next summer, I don't think Maureen was kidding about wanting him as part of the Cech deal. We'll need to keep him busy at Arsenal so he has the incentive to stick around long term.

I can't think of any player in the country who could have done a better job than Santi in the middle on Sunday. But that was against a team set up by an arrogant cock of a manager who thought he had more capable players. Santi doesn't do as well against more compact opposition who are more, how shall we say it, "English" in their approach to the game. This is where the squad rotation and Plan A, B, C could help us out a lot. And fewer games for the key players might mean fewer injuries and suspensions. I hope that's what we are going to see, a manager who starts appreciating and respecting every opponent and who finds an efficient way to organise and utilise the resources we have.

We also need more from our captain and vice-captains. It's time to start taking those roles seriously again. These guys should be a constant example and a constant reminder of what is expected at this club. They all sound like model citizens off the pitch, I think they need an alter-ego when on it. A bit more authoritative and bastardy please.

Oh I agree re Santi. When he is allowed to play, in common with all of our MF - he can be devastating in allowing us to pass at pace. Problem is that playing both him and Ozil against a formation that has become the favoured norm against us is a bit of a luxury - because there is no space to exploit, and Santi can tend to slow us down in these situations. The lack of space in these situations could be addressed by playing wider, and by having a more box to box type player like Ramsey in the centre - both of which would create gaps - and in addition Ramsey would give us a better defensive option for teams looking to break on us.

So - yes to rotation. But also yes to Wenger realising that he needs to help the players by setting up to address what he knows now is going to happen - particularly at home. Plus we need to come hard out of the traps in every game - because once the opposition needs to score merely to establish parity - then the 10 men behind the ball approach becomes a problem for them..

As for VC - I'd give it to Coquelin!

[Kano]

I’m not surprised by the players having to gee themselves up. Invincible members will often say Sol Campbell really rallied them by constantly huddling the team and saying ‘together’. Wenger just seems too impassive at times. Stories circulated that he lost it with them in training and that must have had an effect. But we’ve heard stories like this before. I think it was a Liverpool game we were losing at half time and he just laid into them and they came out a totally different team. He doesn’t like doing things that way but that’s what’s held him back from being a true great. I think he trusts his players to mentally prepare themselves too often and then just sends them into battle.

He does, that has always been the story coming out from ex-players, that he relies on their intelligence to figure things out for themselves. City last year too, where he admitted he took the advice of the players on the approach to the game, which I guess is a positive thing because it shows he is willing to listen and adapt still and perhaps not as stubborn as we thought. But then two games later we lose away to Spurs and embarrass ourselves at home to Monaco later that month too. Hoddle said that Wenger went into regular rages in the Monaco dressing room, throwing shit around and letting loose. He's obviously mellowed with old age but he probably still has it in him. That said, it was a strange sight seeing him come to the touchline to order a formation change. I honestly don't recall seeing him do that before.

[IBK]

I think that's a bit of a simplification. And in the last 2 seasons we've won a trophy in each. People react because people get emotional about football and that seems to make them irrational. We lost at West Ham and it was all "woe is me, we have no chance." I was roundly criticised for saying that maybe, just maybe, it's a little early to be throwing in the towel after one game.



It is, but it's happening to every team every year. Maybe to us more than most but no team is completely consistent. City sweep all before them and then lost to West Ham and then get hammered at WHL of all places.



I disagree about the quality of our players, I think we're good enough to challenge properly.
I agree to an extent about not dealing with the weaker links - notably up front. My take on the summer's dealings, or lack thereof, is that Wenger didn't see the point in signing another Wellbeck, either sign someone who will push us - another like Sanchez or Ozil - or don't bother. If that is what happened then I agree with that, but the problem is he failed to land the big signing (it seems like he was chasing Benzema). If the result of that is we fail to challenge then he should be sacked. If Sanchez keeps his shooting boots on and Walcott stays fix then we might just have enough up front after all.

As I keep saying, Wenger should be ultimately judged next May. He shouldn't be judged after a poor result vs West Ham or a good one vs Utd. Obviously each game will change and shape options and the frustrations of the last 10 years will colour those opinions. So long as we stay in touch I'll feel we have a chance. We have a good run in - City away is our penultimate game, interestingly - and if we're in touch with 10 games to go I wouldn't write us off.

The key for now is to build on that Utd game and get a bit of momentum going.

Letters. IMHO you are allowing your own mantra to colour your interpretation of what goes on here. People aren't 'throwing in the towel' after one game. All the debate is about really is whether people have faith in our team and its manager. You are entitled to take the view that you will wait and see what pans out over the season. Others are equally, and rationally, justified in seeing a disappointing defeat in which endlessly before repeated errors show themselves once again as evidence that they can already predict what is to happen.

You are, really, no more 'rational' than those who frustrate you.

As for emotion? Well my view is that by knocking this you are denying an essential - perhaps the essential - part of being a football fan. Plenty of posters on here analyse the failings (or successes) of the team. This analysis should not be dismissed because they are angry or frustrated at what they have seen, any more than yours should be because you are less passionate in your views.

[Power n Glory]

He does, that has always been the story coming out from ex-players, that he relies on their intelligence to figure things out for themselves. City last year too, where he admitted he took the advice of the players on the approach to the game, which I guess is a positive thing because it shows he is willing to listen and adapt still and perhaps not as stubborn as we thought. But then two games later we lose away to Spurs and embarrass ourselves at home to Monaco later that month too. Hoddle said that Wenger went into regular rages in the Monaco dressing room, throwing shit around and letting loose. He's obviously mellowed with old age but he probably still has it in him. That said, it was a strange sight seeing him come to the touchline to order a formation change. I honestly don't recall seeing him do that before.

Ahh, I never knew that about his Monaco days. You can see he holds it all back in most games but then you see stuff with water bottles. :lol: I think I recall him saying his stint in Japan really mellowed him out and changed his thinking on coaching.

[IBK]

Ahh, I never knew that about his Monaco days. You can see he holds it all back in most games but then you see stuff with water bottles. :lol: I think I recall him saying his stint in Japan really mellowed him out and changed his thinking on coaching.

Didn't he also say recently that he sits back on the touchline because he does not want to transmit anxiety to his players? This I can understand, but maybe he will realise that he can transmit desire to them too?

[Power n Glory]

Didn't he also say recently that he sits back on the touchline because he does not want to transmit anxiety to his players? This I can understand, but maybe he will realise that he can transmit desire to them too?

I think the way he sits on the bench also transmits passivity. You could argue that's what ends up on the pitch when we play as well.

[Dein-machine]

He sits on the touchline because he doesn't have the ability or want to effect things from the side. If he ever made early changes to either the shape or the team it would suggest he was wrong in the 1st place & we simply can't be having that. Same thing about substitutions, never makes one at half time to give the player a good 45 minutes to effect the game even if we're losing. Instead we have the blind faith that he is always right so the original team he picked will still win the game. He sees early substitutions as a sign of failure, of getting his team wrong - which shows an horrendous lack of tactical nous. we may have smashed Utd on Sunday but did you see the effect 2 substitutions had that LVG made, less room for Santi & picking up the 2nd balls.
It took Wenger 20 mins of the 2nd half to see what this was doing which was when he pushed Ramsey inside & Ozil over to the right - its very worrying, seriously - I wonder if he's age maybe causing him to not see things he used to.

[Letters]

Should a manager really have to tell the players where things are going wrong during the game?

[IBK]

Should a manager really have to tell the players where things are going wrong during the game?

Depends on the players. Some have better footballing minds than others. Clearly.

[alexander]

Should a manager really have to tell the players where things are going wrong during the game?

Agree with that. if a player looks over and thinks "oh, look at the boss, kicking back in a chair, why should I bother?" then he wont go very far at arsenal or any club. How many manager make a change at half time anyway, other than if forced to do? Listening to the radio today they spoke of Rodgers at Liverpool doing odd things `like making half time subs`.
Some managers sit back, some scream and shout at the edge of their technical area, and I doubt it has any correlation on the success of their team.

[Power n Glory]

Should a manager really have to tell the players where things are going wrong during the game?

That's like saying we dont need a captain or leadership on the pitch. It's psychological. You won't find many sports where the coach isn't there to support the athlete.

[IBK]

Agree with that. if a player looks over and thinks "oh, look at the boss, kicking back in a chair, why should I bother?" then he wont go very far at arsenal or any club. How many manager make a change at half time anyway, other than if forced to do? Listening to the radio today they spoke of Rodgers at Liverpool doing odd things `like making half time subs`.
Some managers sit back, some scream and shout at the edge of their technical area, and I doubt it has any correlation on the success of their team.

Some players self-motivate. Others are motivated but need direction in what to do. Others are complacent. Insofar as they are coaches, managers can undoubtedly help many players during games.

[Letters]

That's like saying we dont need a captain or leadership on the pitch. It's psychological. You won't find many sports where the coach isn't there to support the athlete.

I'd say leadership on the pitch is more important than someone shouting from the sidelines.
That is something else we've been sadly lacking since Vieira left.

[Kano]

Some players self-motivate. Others are motivated but need direction in what to do. Others are complacent. Insofar as they are coaches, managers can undoubtedly help many players during games.

A manager also has a wider persepective of the game, which means players will not always see the problems happening across the pitch and react accordingly. The fact that every successful manager in the modern game does it, tells us that it has an effect on the team.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I heard an ex pro recently(ish) quite vociferously opine that he didn't care what his manager did on the touch line during a game.....I remember being particularly struck by the view as I was expecting him to say the opposite. I can't for the life of me remember who said it though...

I also note...and it is perhaps a pedantic obsevation, players often don't look their managers in the eye when they are talking if the game is in procession or they are about to come on, almost as if their manager is talking to themselves! Unless the manager is passing on specific 'tactical' instructions the player always seem to be somewhat in a 'zone'.


I cast my mind back to the familiar story of Wenger telling Pat Rice to shut up after he laid into the team at half time when we were down. They then sat in silence. Whatever you think about his actions on the touchline, he is definitely aware of the potential negative mental impact....

[Letters]

A manager also has a wider persepective of the game, which means players will not always see the problems happening across the pitch and react accordingly. The fact that every successful manager in the modern game does it, tells us that it has an effect on the team.

Every fan does it too. Doesn't necessarily mean the players actually listen.

[Kano]

Every fan does it too. Doesn't necessarily mean the players actually listen.

Why would a player listen to a fan who isn't their direct employer or someone they respect on a professional basis? The comparison makes no sense at all.

[Letters]

They wouldn't. But I'm not convinced professional players need to be told where things are going wrong.
I'm rubbish at football but when I'm playing if things are going against us I generally know why.

[Kano]

As IBK said, no one player responds the same. None of us are the same and we all require different methods of management so we can achieve the best in our work place. If football managers, who understand their players better than any fan who only has an exterior perception, knew it was a pointless exercise, they wouldn't be wasting their energy.

[IBK]

I heard an ex pro recently(ish) quite vociferously opine that he didn't care what his manager did on the touch line during a game.....I remember being particularly struck by the view as I was expecting him to say the opposite. I can't for the life of me remember who said it though...

I also note...and it is perhaps a pedantic obsevation, players often don't look their managers in the eye when they are talking if the game is in procession or they are about to come on, almost as if their manager is talking to themselves! Unless the manager is passing on specific 'tactical' instructions the player always seem to be somewhat in a 'zone'.


I cast my mind back to the familiar story of Wenger telling Pat Rice to shut up after he laid into the team at half time when we were down. They then sat in silence. Whatever you think about his actions on the touchline, he is definitely aware of the potential negative mental impact....

...and there's nothing to say that that ex pro was a universal example of how players respond, and I'm sure that many players do not 'zone out' when spoken to. In football, as in life, people are motivated and influenced in different ways. Its obvious that the likes of a Guardiola or a Mourinho (when at his best) - as well as countless other managers - influence their players' shape, and help them read the game and implement their tactics. To the extent that a manager is a coach - it seems obvious that tactical specialists can assist their teams during games.

As for Wenger - I'll meet you by referring you to those players who have spoken about Wenger 'losing it' in the dressing room while at Monaco. I don't doubt that maybe he now favours a different approach, and I mentioned above how I've heard that he stays on his backside because he doesn't want to pass on negative vibes. But what we are talking about is merely different management styles - and rarely is a single approach universally successful.

[I am invisible]

Wenger shouting orders from the touch line might not do any good, but it surely couldn't do any harm either? I certainly wouldn't mind an extra set of eyes watching my back, and picking up on anything I might have missed...

[Power n Glory]

Hey man, Wenger just needs to mix it up. He shouldn't have to take a tanking in the media for the players to get geed up for a Utd game. It shouldn't take Wenger having to go ape in training for the players to get their heads straight for the game. But if that what it takes for the right results, what are we doing? This shouldn't even be up for debate. How long as it been since we've won the league now? What worked before isn't working now so let's at least try something different. It's the same reason we all pine for new signings or want to see a change to tactics and team selection.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sunday showed how it needs to be done - 12 committed men, including the manager, all doing their part. No sitting back, no slacking off, no leaving it to somebody else, everyone has to muck in and do their bit including Wenger. Sure as shit he should be up on his feet and in the faces of the players. Okay, different managers have different styles but Wenger's style so far has seen us turn up for big games unprepared, throw away comfortable leads, drift through games without making any impact, we all know the issues. Therefore, regardless of what anyone else is doing, Wenger needs to do something different. He tried it on Sunday and it worked a treat. Let's keep doing that. And it keeps the fans happy to, so it's win, win, win when he's on his feet urging on the troops rather than huddled in his coat fucking around with the zip.

[Letters]

Do you really think Wenger did anything significantly different on Sunday?

[Power n Glory]

Do you really think Wenger did anything significantly different on Sunday?

You're not making a good case for Wenger going down that road.

[Letters]

I don't really understand that reply. It doesn't answer the question.

[Power n Glory]

I don't really understand that reply. It doesn't answer the question.

What are you arguing Letters? Make your point because the question is irrelevant and I'll take it from there.

[Letters]

I'm not really arguing anything.

I'm just wondering why after 19 years Wenger would just suddenly do something radically different. In fact he's usually pilloried on here for being stubborn and refusing to do things differently. I didn't see the whole game on Sunday annoyingly so I don't know but given that we blitzed them from the start we didn't win because of some tactical substitution master-stroke, we just had one of those games where everything clicks.

So I'm just asking if people think Wenger really did something different or if it was just a good day at the office. If he did do something different, what was it and what makes people think he did something different (result aside).

[Power n Glory]

I'm not really arguing anything.

I'm just wondering why after 19 years Wenger would just suddenly do something radically different. In fact he's usually pilloried on here for being stubborn and refusing to do things differently. I didn't see the whole game on Sunday annoyingly so I don't know but given that we blitzed them from the start we didn't win because of some tactical substitution master-stroke, we just had one of those games where everything clicks.

So I'm just asking if people think Wenger really did something different or if it was just a good day at the office. If he did do something different, what was it and what makes people think he did something different (result aside).

That's your first problem.

Second, if you're saying the players geed themselves up for the game without much input from the manager, nothing more than usual at least, that doesn't bode well for Wenger. It sounds like you're unintentionally taking credit away from the manager when most of us on here are saying he played his part and was an influence. If you're saying he hasn't done any that different and this is the first time in ages we've beaten Utd in the league...what does that really say about Wenger? Do we really need him as manager if the incentive is coming from the players? Rethink where you're going with this. The other day you had a jab at posters that said we get these good results in spite of Wenger. You're not a million miles away from saying the same thing.

[selassie]

Whilst it would be wonderful if we could blow teams away like that week in week out, we won't be quite as lucky with the space we were afforded on Sunday, every week. Leicester also showed they were happy to come out against us rather than sitting, and also got punished. Any manager worth their salt will be looking to sit against us from now on, rather than let us play through the inside channels on the counter attack.

Unfortunately, many of our matches will find us playing with 10 men in front of us, and limited space. This will entirely change the questions asked of us. What we need to know, is does this team have it in them to break teams down week in week out? It's an entirely different game when we end up passing sideways across the pitch....which is why a fit and form Giroud is crucial if we want to push on.....

A bit late replying to this as I was a bit busy yesterday at work. I agree, Sunday was something to cherish especially given the opposition and whilst it has raised the bar in terms of expectations for the team I am not naive enough to believe this is how it will be going forwards.

What impressed me more than anything about Sunday was the focus and application every single one of our players put in to the game. This should be the standard for every game regardless of who the opposition are. It is kind of a worry that this team seems to have some "mental" issues when it comes to preparing for and facing teams who are seen as lesser sides. Mentality isn't the only thing that will prevent us from losing some of the games we shouldn't be losing but it goes a long way towards giving you a better chance.

As it stands I still don't believe we will win the league but...having seen what the team are capable of it does bode well if we keep apace with the leaders and maintain some kind of consistency.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not really arguing anything.

I'm just wondering why after 19 years Wenger would just suddenly do something radically different. In fact he's usually pilloried on here for being stubborn and refusing to do things differently. I didn't see the whole game on Sunday annoyingly so I don't know but given that we blitzed them from the start we didn't win because of some tactical substitution master-stroke, we just had one of those games where everything clicks.

So I'm just asking if people think Wenger really did something different or if it was just a good day at the office. If he did do something different, what was it and what makes people think he did something different (result aside).

Couldn't be more wrong. It was about preparation, application and effort and you could see it all over the pitch and on the sidelines.

1. Theo tearing around the place like a lunatic, slide tackling to win the ball back in the middle and then immediately haring up the pitch to get into the box.
2. Ramsey sticking rigidly to his assigned role.
3. Cazorla balancing his offensive duties with defence, so Coquelin was always comfortable.
4. Ozil pushed up and central and orchestrating the performance.
5. Alexis and Bellerin playing gloriously direct football at a blur.
6. The players focused from the first whistle and paying strict attention to the passing and positional play.
7. Wenger barking his orders from the side and making changes that reflected the changes made by the opposition (although I was a bit pissed we didn't go for the jugular and really rack up a scoreline)
8. Cech full of authority at the back.
And so on.

Nothing to do with clicking or getting the run of the ball. It was proper preparation and execution at the level you would expect from professionals players at a big club like Arsenal.

[selassie]

Couldn't be more wrong. It was about preparation, application and effort and you could see it all over the pitch and on the sidelines.

1. Theo tearing around the place like a lunatic, slide tackling to win the ball back in the middle and then immediately haring up the pitch to get into the box.
2. Ramsey sticking rigidly to his assigned role.
3. Cazorla balancing his offensive duties with defence, so Coquelin was always comfortable.
4. Ozil pushed up and central and orchestrating the performance.
5. Alexis and Bellerin playing gloriously direct football at a blur.
6. The players focused from the first whistle and paying strict attention to the passing and positional play.
7. Wenger barking his orders from the side and making changes that reflected the changes made by the opposition (although I was a bit pissed we didn't go for the jugular and really rack up a scoreline)
8. Cech full of authority at the back.
And so on.

Nothing to do with clicking or getting the run of the ball. It was proper preparation and execution at the level you would expect from professionals players at a big club like Arsenal.

:gp:

totally agree with this.

[Letters]

So you're suggesting that we in some way prepared for this game differently?

[Niall_Quinn]

So you're suggesting that we in some way prepared for this game differently?

There's not even a shadow of a doubt about it.

[LDG]

A bit late replying to this as I was a bit busy yesterday at work. I agree, Sunday was something to cherish especially given the opposition and whilst it has raised the bar in terms of expectations for the team I am not naive enough to believe this is how it will be going forwards.

What impressed me more than anything about Sunday was the focus and application every single one of our players put in to the game. This should be the standard for every game regardless of who the opposition are. It is kind of a worry that this team seems to have some "mental" issues when it comes to preparing for and facing teams who are seen as lesser sides. Mentality isn't the only thing that will prevent us from losing some of the games we shouldn't be losing but it goes a long way towards giving you a better chance.

As it stands I still don't believe we will win the league but...having seen what the team are capable of it does bode well if we keep apace with the leaders and maintain some kind of consistency.

Yes, agreed.

I showed how a bit of thought, concentration and effort (before and during the game) works.

If I was Wenger, I'd be pre-empting Watford sitting deep, and being pro-active in a plan to overcome it.

We'll see....

[Letters]

Second, if you're saying the players geed themselves up for the game without much input from the manager, nothing more than usual at least, that doesn't bode well for Wenger. It sounds like you're unintentionally taking credit away from the manager when most of us on here are saying he played his part and was an influence. If you're saying he hasn't done any that different and this is the first time in ages we've beaten Utd in the league...what does that really say about Wenger? Do we really need him as manager if the incentive is coming from the players? Rethink where you're going with this. The other day you had a jab at posters that said we get these good results in spite of Wenger. You're not a million miles away from saying the same thing.

Wenger is responsible for results, good or bad. All results, good or bad, are because of Wenger. So much goes into that - he buys and sells players, trains them, man-manages them, picks the team, sets the tactics and formation for each game. On the day he may make a substitution which makes a difference but that didn't happen on Sunday, we blitzed them from the start.

I'm just not convinced he did anything radically different in terms of his preparation for Sunday. There were stories he "lost it" with the players after the Olympiacos game, maybe that had an effect. Or maybe the players did gee themselves up - and what's wrong with that if they did? That doesn't reflect poorly on Wenger, if he's bought or developed players who can motivate themselves then that's on him too just as much as it is if he's got players who can't.
I'm not sure why a manager should need to especially gee players up for a game like Utd at home. Players who have got to this level are surely very competitive, they shouldn't need that much motivation to want to beat Utd.

[Letters]

Actually, I'll slightly amend that statement about all results are because of Wenger. Although that is broadly true, there are instances (Chelsea away) when external factors have such a big influence that you can't really put the result, good or bad, on Wenger's head.

[Niall_Quinn]

You've lost the plot Letters. You are so committed and diligent in defending Wenger against criticism you have taken to playing it like a chess defence, thinking several excuses in advance. If Wenger changed his approach on Sunday, which anyone who watched the game can see he obviously did, it potentially exposes how little preparation and how many managerial mistakes have blighted so many performances in the past - not that the average fan will need Sunday to figure this out. But still, you can't allow that comparison to stand so here you are with your airbrush at the ready. You're just here to defend Wenger regardless of facts or circumstances or events. You didn't even watch the game but you still entered the post match discussion with barely concealed stabs at those fans who refuse to drink the whole Kool-Aid bottle in one swig. I gave you a list of the key differences we saw on Sunday. Fair enough, if none of that was Wenger's work then as others have said, we don't need him, much better if he stays away from the games from now on. But nobody thinks that and I doubt many will allow you to write off the performance as a day when "everything just clicked", because that's not how it happened at all.

[Power n Glory]

You've lost the plot Letters. You are so committed and diligent in defending Wenger against criticism you have taken to playing it like a chess defence, thinking several excuses in advance. If Wenger changed his approach on Sunday, which anyone who watched the game can see he obviously did, it potentially exposes how little preparation and how many managerial mistakes have blighted so many performances in the past - not that the average fan will need Sunday to figure this out. But still, you can't allow that comparison to stand so here you are with your airbrush at the ready. You're just here to defend Wenger regardless of facts or circumstances or events. You didn't even watch the game but you still entered the post match discussion with barely concealed stabs at those fans who refuse to drink the whole Kool-Aid bottle in one swig. I gave you a list of the key differences we saw on Sunday. Fair enough, if none of that was Wenger's work then as others have said, we don't need him, much better if he stays away from the games from now on. But nobody thinks that and I doubt many will allow you to write off the performance as a day when "everything just clicked", because that's not how it happened at all.

Nail on the head. I can't be asked to entertain it anymore. It's why there are always holes and contradictions in his argument because he's overly concerned with putting up a staunched defence. Coupled by the fact that he didn't even see the game and he's still arguing over nonsense.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

...and there's nothing to say that that ex pro was a universal example of how players respond, and I'm sure that many players do not 'zone out' when spoken to. In football, as in life, people are motivated and influenced in different ways. Its obvious that the likes of a Guardiola or a Mourinho (when at his best) - as well as countless other managers - influence their players' shape, and help them read the game and implement their tactics. To the extent that a manager is a coach - it seems obvious that tactical specialists can assist their teams during games.

As for Wenger - I'll meet you by referring you to those players who have spoken about Wenger 'losing it' in the dressing room while at Monaco. I don't doubt that maybe he now favours a different approach, and I mentioned above how I've heard that he stays on his backside because he doesn't want to pass on negative vibes. But what we are talking about is merely different management styles - and rarely is a single approach universally successful.

I wasn't suggesting the example was universal or absolute....merely pointing out that in a scenario where I thought the player would respond to a manager pontificating on the touchline, he simply opined that it made no difference to him. That is to suggest, that, none of us really knows how rousing, positive or negative it is for any given player as the recipient.

I don't think there's much mileage in anyone generally getting overly critical about Wenger's lack of running around on the touchline, pointing, or cupping his hands and yelling in that stupid Owen Coyle way managers do that players often ignore anyway. Moreover, many often have a number 2 who do that kind of yelling. I personally like the idea that the duties are fluidly managed between Manager, assistant and captain and that so long that there is a balance emanating from the triumvirate, I'm not too concerned with who meters it out.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

There's not even a shadow of a doubt about it.

Well Theodore did say they had a special nice chat with cups of tea, crumpets and rich tea biscuits whilst they discussed how much they all wanted to win the game.

But in light of a little of what Letters sounds like he is saying.....the passing was so incisive and accurate that you can easily imagine a slight off day when one ball in a mazy 12 pass ping pong set play is slightly off or over hit, resulting in fewer goals and us relying on, or ruing the chance Ramsey gloriously missed.


Though it is worth mentioning that on days when it doesn't come off the effort can bridge the gap......as we have seen Sanchez be a perfect example of himself before his recent glut of goals.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well Theodore did say they had a special nice chat with cups of tea, crumpets and rich tea biscuits whilst they discussed how much they all wanted to win the game.

But in light of a little of what Letters sounds like he is saying.....the passing was so incisive and accurate that you can easily imagine a slight off day when one ball in a mazy 12 pass ping pong set play is slightly off or over hit, resulting in fewer goals and us relying on, or ruing the chance Ramsey gloriously missed.


Though it is worth mentioning that on days when it doesn't come off the effort can bridge the gap......as we have seen Sanchez be a perfect example of himself before his recent glut of goals.

The score would have been 7-0 if it had been one of those days where everything comes off. Ramsey, Ozil's second effort, Giroud and Ox. We missed more than we scored. Fortunately for Utd. You can understand Utd fans going on about how they won the second half 0-0 or how they let us win or how they picked the wrong team, etc, etc. We'd probably have been the same if the score was reversed. But it's odd when an Arsenal fan concludes we won it because the gods were smiling down. Doubly odd when he's arguing against other fans who make no secret of their desire to see Wenger depart and yet were rightfully generous with the praise for the manager's performance on Sunday. There's no need to make excuses for Wenger following that game. Yet the excuses are still coming.

[Letters]

You are so committed and diligent in defending Wenger against criticism you have taken to playing it like a chess defence, thinking several excuses in advance.

:lol: No, it's you (plural) who have this ridiculous caricature of me that everything I say is a defence of Wenger that you cannot read what I actually say without interpreting it as a defence. I'm just saying...well, I already said it. You could try reading what I actually said, not what you think I said or meant.

[Letters]

he's still arguing over nonsense.

:lol: another irony-meter explodes...

[Letters]

But it's odd when an Arsenal fan concludes we won it because the gods were smiling down.

Ah. Just noticed that. Yep, that pretty much proves you haven't actually read or bothered to understand what I wrote.
Keep on building those straw men, it's so much easier to argue against that what I actually say, isn't it?

:tiphat:

[Power n Glory]

Well Theodore did say they had a special nice chat with cups of tea, crumpets and rich tea biscuits whilst they discussed how much they all wanted to win the game.

But in light of a little of what Letters sounds like he is saying.....the passing was so incisive and accurate that you can easily imagine a slight off day when one ball in a mazy 12 pass ping pong set play is slightly off or over hit, resulting in fewer goals and us relying on, or ruing the chance Ramsey gloriously missed.


Though it is worth mentioning that on days when it doesn't come off the effort can bridge the gap......as we have seen Sanchez be a perfect example of himself before his recent glut of goals.

Yes, Theo did say that and I’ll come back to that point. But is it as simple as saying that things just went our way on the day? I can understand the point being made about not doing anything radical with our tactics, selection and so forth, but we have a history of losing these big games in the league or not showing up. So what was so different about that game and why did it all click? If we conclude the manager didn’t do anything special at all and the incentive came from the players and that spirit came from the players rallying before the game, again that doesn’t bode well for the manager. It goes back to that argument about being too passive when the team need a jump start. Where is the leadership coming from in these crunch games if it’s not coming from the manager? If we’re preparing for every single game in the exact same way, it shows why have often lost these crunch games and why we these sort of results against the big teams happen once in a blue moon.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-striker-theo-walcott-credits-6592096


"I think, sometimes, you see this generation of players, they’re actually scared to go up to coaches and ask something.


“Going back to the question about when it clicked about going up front, that was one of the things Arsene wanted me to do – to be more aggressive on the pitch.

"And maybe he’s sensed that I’ve had more aggression.

“I actually said, ‘Do you want me to get stuck into people?’ That was my reaction. He said, ‘No, I’m not saying that’. He wanted me to be more aggressive, in terms of running at players, closing them down, tracking back, being there and in their faces.

This one is interesting. It’s funny hearing players are scared to ask other players and the manager for advice on how to improve their game. That one is odd. How can they develop if they don’t have that one on one?

Also, we have Theo specifically talking about being more aggressive and we definitely saw that on Sunday. Was there a meeting before the game with Wenger? I don’t know. But it looked as though Theo was more aggressive on Sunday and it didn’t go unnoticed by the fans.

[Letters]

Where is the leadership coming from in these crunch games if it’s not coming from the manager?
Historically I'd say it's come from the players, especially in the era when we had captains like Adams and Vieira. It's something we've been sadly lacking of late.
I don't think Wenger's ever been a great motivator or tactician, his biggest successes have come through good players and strong captains.

[alexander]

I don't think Wenger's ever been a great motivator or tactician, his biggest successes have come through good players and strong captains.

Weirdly he dont put much stock in a captain, he said in the past about everyone being `leaders on the pitch`. IMO the wrong way to things, I dont think you can underestimate what a player like PV4 or a Roy Keane can briing on the field. Its fine being a world class player, but in life there are always some that will do the bare minimum, and others that will kick on. Sometimes you need a player with real passion to win and drag a team on. I wouldnt say we have many players like that, personally I think Alexis would be that guy. Not only is his passion visible, but he has the minerals to back it up, he is a winner, he could win a game on his own.