Match Reaction: Olympiakos 0-3 Bif

[Master Splinter]

Arsenal :bow:.

Wenger :bow:.

Giroud :bow:.

Campbell :bow:.

Cech :bow:.

Monreal :bow:.

Man United :haha:.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Intelligence and movement. :bow:

Pace and power. :haha:

[Ernesto]

Fan-bloody-tastic.

Better than inter Milan in 2003.

[Letters]

Wenger :bow:
Pretty much.

Say what you like about him but he doesn't deserve half the stick he gets on here.
Which other fans having just retained the FA Cup, being 2nd in the league and just qualified for the last 16 of the CL would be calling for the manager's head?

[Niall_Quinn]

Gave the rest a head start and still got through to the Silent Stan cash bonus round.

Campbell, Kos and Bif were the standout players tonight.

[A Gunner]

Pretty much.

Say what you like about him but he doesn't deserve half the stick he gets on here.
Which other fans having just retained the FA Cup, being 2nd in the league and just qualified for the last 16 of the CL would be calling for the manager's head?

I think the invincible season has a massive bearing on a lot of the fans thinking, where we are not allow to lose at all...

[Niall_Quinn]

Pretty much.

Say what you like about him but he doesn't deserve half the stick he gets on here.
Which other fans having just retained the FA Cup, being 2nd in the league and just qualified for the last 16 of the CL would be calling for the manager's head?

Fuuuuuuuuuck :doh:

Take a day off will you? Just celebrate the win like the rest of us.

[Heisenberg]

Great performance.

Man United :haha:

[Letters]

Take a day off will you?
:lol: Says the WUM man who often posts "Wenger out" dribble in match threads when we've actually won and spent the first 2 months of the season WUMming in every other post at my suggestion that maybe, just maybe, we should see how things out a bit further into the season before going overboard.

:tiphat:

[Master Splinter]

Just want to avoid Barcelona in the last 16. It's fucking boring playing the same teams again and again.

[AFC Leveller]

Could get real Madrid, barcelona, atletico Madrid, wolfsburg or zenit....

[Marc Overmars]

Awesome result, shows how careless it was to lose the first 2 games against the cannon fodder of the group, we never should have been in this position tonight. Well done to everyone though and Bif in particular for his hattrick. Takes a lot of character to go away in Europe knowing you pretty much need to pump someone to get through.

I really hope this is the spark we need to go on a consistent run in the league now.

Arsenal and WUMger for always doing just enough. :bow:

[milla]

Gave the rest a head start and still got through to the Silent Stan cash bonus round.

Campbell, Kos and Bif were the standout players tonight.

Both Feo and Ox could learn a thing or two about football from Campbell. He literally took out all of Olympiacos defenders with that reverse pass for the second goal. :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: Says the WUM man who often posts "Wenger out" dribble in match threads when we've actually won and spent the first 2 months of the season WUMming in every other post at my suggestion that maybe, just maybe, we should see how things out a bit further into the season before going overboard.

:tiphat:

Nobody was going on about any of that until you pipe up - we were all just enjoying the win. Don't try and pin your obsession on me.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

In fairness, it's four years (and will at least be five) since we last played Barca. It's Bayern we're getting all the time.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway, please change my XMas name to Arsene Wenger so I won't get booted no matter what I do.

[milla]

Could get real Madrid, barcelona, atletico Madrid, wolfsburg or zenit....

Real Madrid :pray:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Death.Taxes.Arsenal qualifying for the last 16.

Arsenal :bow::bow:

Giroud :bow::bow:

Bring it on. The only team I really fear is Barca; everyone else is beatable including Real.

[Coney]

Beware of Greek-tearing Bifs. ;)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Anyway, please change my XMas name to Arsene Wenger so I won't get booted no matter what I do.

As requested.

[Kano]

Atleti please. Tough, tough fixture but would love to have a go at playing them.

[Coney]

When's the draw?

[Kano]

Monday

[Coney]

:good:

[Niall_Quinn]

As requested.

Yay!

[fakeyank]

Which other fans having just retained the FA Cup, being 2nd in the league and just qualified for the last 16 of the CL would be calling for the manager's head?

People who actually want to win something worthwhile would be calling for the managers head..

[alexander]

Couldnt see us getting through, but what a result. Know we will probably be out in the next round, but avoiding Thursday night football was a must!
Only listened on the radio, but sounds like we struggled the first 10-15 mins, then grew into it (probably nerves). From what some are saying on here and elsewheree Campbell is playing really well. I always had high hopes, after him doing well in the WC and it seems he just needed a run in the team. The new Coq maybe??

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fair play to the Greeks - they did everything they could to create an atmosphere but still had the class to give Campbell a round of applause.

[Kano]

To be fair, their stadium is probably one of the few places left with the lights still on.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Hahaha.

When I was in Greece, I brought enough cash to see my family through four weeks and every type of emergency you could imagine. When I got there everywhere took cards and all the bank machines were working sans queues.

If you ever need to know what is happening, stay away from the news bulletins.

You seriously wouldn't know there was a problem at all.

[Bumble]

Good result and I thought Olympiakos were the better team until we scored and I think Wenger was right once that happened they got nervous and we were able to take control.

The result does help with the league though as we don't have to play Thursdays and we probably only got two games left in the competition anyway so shouldn't take too much out of the players. The Europa league we could have got to the semis or final.

[Letters]

I think the invincible season has a massive bearing on a lot of the fans thinking, where we are not allow to lose at all...

Wenger's first 8 years or so with us definitely raised the level of expectation. The stadium move was supposed to push us on but the timing of it coincided with the billionaires sticking their oars in. The "last 10 years" argument is lazy and simplistic. The last couple of years have seen a clear change in transfer policy as the new financial deals have been agreed.
Wenger should arguably have been sacked at certain points over the last 10 years - after the Birmingham debacle I didn't think we'd ever win a trophy under him again, but the last 2 years have been OK, we seem to be heading in the right direction and so far this season is going fine. 2nd in the league, qualified for the last 16 of the CL (somehow!).
As I've said all along, Wenger should be judged at the end of the season. After the first 2 games our CL campaign was looking like a fiasco, now we've qualified.
I don't think realistically we can win the CL, teams like Barca, Madrid and Bayern are just too strong, but I do expect us to seriously challenge for the league this season.

[Letters]

People who actually want to win something worthwhile would be calling for the managers head..

At the end of the season maybe if we've fallen short again. Not now :good:

[Power n Glory]

Giroud's first hat trick for us and what a time to score it. Hopefully that kicks him back into gear. 1st goal was what he's been doing all season but the second was good movement and a great play from Campbell. Also, I can't understand why he's not the first on the penalty list if he takes them like that.

Campbell showed real quality today. I hope he keeps getting games because despite the ups and downs, he has shown moments of quality. Yesterday was another example.

Good result overall and we avoid Thursday night football. But with our record, the odds were in our favour. We just always seem to qualify. But where we seem to fall apart is the last 16 and the odds have always gone against us in that area. It's unlikely, but it would be great if we could advance beyond that and have an interesting CL for once.

[LDG]

Cracking result. Well done to the lads, as there was some real pressure on that. Lose, and it could have really affected the rest of the season.

If we hadn't gone through, we'd have to contend with playing on Spursday, not to mention a dent in confidence.

Hopefully this means we can push on and start getting some consistency in the league.

[Power n Glory]

Campbell must have been watching some old Dennis Bergkamp tapes. Reminds me of that Juve assist.

[Ollie the Optimist]

People who actually want to win something worthwhile would be calling for the managers head..

the FA cup is worthwhile :good:

[IBK]

Giroud's first hat trick for us and what a time to score it. Hopefully that kicks him back into gear. 1st goal was what he's been doing all season but the second was good movement and a great play from Campbell. Also, I can't understand why he's not the first on the penalty list if he takes them like that.

Campbell showed real quality today. I hope he keeps getting games because despite the ups and downs, he has shown moments of quality. Yesterday was another example.

Good result overall and we avoid Thursday night football. But with our record, the odds were in our favour. We just always seem to qualify. But where we seem to fall apart is the last 16 and the odds have always gone against us in that area. It's unlikely, but it would be great if we could advance beyond that and have an interesting CL for once.

I agree with all that. Well done to Arsenal for what, as Wenger rightly put it, was a great team performance in difficult circumstances. What a great day for BIF to show up. He gets some unfair criticism, IMO - but that is what you want a striker to do - put goals away when the stakes are high, and he did just that.

I was confident that we would do it last night - because as I've said - qualifying for the CL knock out stages has become Wenger's reputational calling card.

I really hope that Campbell can kick on from this performance. He is a good team player - and we need team performances now, with injuries to key players.

As for your comments about kicking on. Yes, of course. But our failure to progress could not encapsulate more the dilemna of assessing Wenger's value. You can use the serial qualification for the group stage to fly the flag as Letters does. Or you can point out that we perennially underperform in some CL matches that we should win, and so tend to make life difficult for ourselv

[IBK]

the FA cup is worthwhile :good:

Yes it is - but ultimately it does not compensate for not winning the league.

[dostoy]

Well done to the whole team and the manager as well.

Wenger must buy a defensive midfielder in January and I reckon an attacking midfielder will be a loan deal, maybe Rabiot from PSG.

Come on Arsene, I know you don't want to but you really have to.

[IBK]

Durham on talk sport is doing down our result/performance last night on the basis that its only the last 16 and we should have beaten Olympiacos and Zagreb at home - not to mention that Olympiacos are a bit shit. But this misses the point. We are often criticised for our mental frailty. last night atmosphere in Greece and do something difficult in terms of the scoreline. The fact that we did just that and stepped up when it counted, without so many first team players is a cause for a lot of satisfaction.

[Marc Overmars]

Durham on talk sport is doing down our result/performance last night on the basis that its only the last 16 and we should have beaten Olympiacos and Zagreb at home - not to mention that Olympiacos are a bit shit. But this misses the point. We are often criticised for our mental frailty. last night atmosphere in Greece and do something difficult in terms of the scoreline. The fact that we did just that and stepped up when it counted, without so many first team players is a cause for a lot of satisfaction.

He's a professional WUM, clearly butt hurt.

Of course we should have navigated this group better but only an idiot would attempt to detract from our performance.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I loved it

[Niall_Quinn]

Durham on talk sport is doing down our result/performance last night on the basis that its only the last 16 and we should have beaten Olympiacos and Zagreb at home - not to mention that Olympiacos are a bit shit. But this misses the point. We are often criticised for our mental frailty. last night atmosphere in Greece and do something difficult in terms of the scoreline. The fact that we did just that and stepped up when it counted, without so many first team players is a cause for a lot of satisfaction.

Absolutely. That's the key thing which Durham would be way, way too thick to get. We had a hurdle to overcome and this time we jumped it instead of trying to run through it, or bury it, or sell it for a profit. This was what I would call a "crunch" match and we usually lose these and lose them well. Last night was a nice change, possibly and even probably another false dawn but you have to start somewhere. Maybe it will be different this time :doh: :pray:

Having Ozil and Cech in the team makes a huge, huge difference. These are grade #1, world class pros, the type of player we have been missing for so long. It has to be great for a player like Campbell to be on a pitch with Ozil and, when he's fit, Alexis. Ramsey has shown he can step up into that bracket (hopefully he'll do it sometime soon), Kos is getting there too. Such a shame we didn't add at least one more player of that calibre in the transfer window.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Why on earth is Durham even being discussed the guy is pathological in his hatred for our club, I think he got gang raped by those blind Arsenal fans from Day of the Triffids and has been harbouring a dislike of us ever since.

He's not well, do you do him any favour by humouring the delusions as rational critique?

[Power n Glory]

Given our history of qualifying for the last 16, I wouldn't class this as the sort of crunch game we'd usually lose. This was a pressure game but for me this sort of game is similar to when we have to go on a ejn to finish in the top 4 after a bad start.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Given our history of qualifying for the last 16, I wouldn't class this as the sort of crunch game we'd usually lose. This was a pressure game but for me this sort of game is similar to when we have to go on a ejn to finish in the top 4 after a bad start.

Yeah pretty much, which shows really that we set the bar too low

[IBK]

Given our history of qualifying for the last 16, I wouldn't class this as the sort of crunch game we'd usually lose. This was a pressure game but for me this sort of game is similar to when we have to go on a ejn to finish in the top 4 after a bad start.

I'm kind of with you re the fact that we always seem to qualify for the last 16, but this was a crunch game - no doubt about it. Very difficult to have to go away and remain composed enough not just to win (see Monaco last year) but to achieve a particular scoreline. Not to mention with a pretty unfamiliar line up. In fact - I'd say that this was more of a 'crunch' game than those we are more traditionally used to giving this term (eg against 'top 4' EPL teams that have often had the hoodoo over us).

[IBK]

Absolutely. That's the key thing which Durham would be way, way too thick to get. We had a hurdle to overcome and this time we jumped it instead of trying to run through it, or bury it, or sell it for a profit. This was what I would call a "crunch" match and we usually lose these and lose them well. Last night was a nice change, possibly and even probably another false dawn but you have to start somewhere. Maybe it will be different this time :doh: :pray:

Having Ozil and Cech in the team makes a huge, huge difference. These are grade #1, world class pros, the type of player we have been missing for so long. It has to be great for a player like Campbell to be on a pitch with Ozil and, when he's fit, Alexis. Ramsey has shown he can step up into that bracket (hopefully he'll do it sometime soon), Kos is getting there too. Such a shame we didn't add at least one more player of that calibre in the transfer window.

Cech is making a huge dirrerence in terms of leadership. Ozil seems finally to be stepping up to the plate. And re Ozil I would say in answer to people who question why a world class player like him would want to stay at our club - I think it suits him being one of the real go to guys in a decent team rather than one of many Galacticos. I hope he feels that he can achieve greater development with us because of this than he would have done somewhere like Real Madrid - rather than just loving London http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/571058/Mesut-Ozil-Arsenal-Real-Madrid

[Power n Glory]

I'm kind of with you re the fact that we always seem to qualify for the last 16, but this was a crunch game - no doubt about it. Very difficult to have to go away and remain composed enough not just to win (see Monaco last year) but to achieve a particular scoreline. Not to mention with a pretty unfamiliar line up. In fact - I'd say that this was more of a 'crunch' game than those we are more traditionally used to giving this term (eg against 'top 4' EPL teams that have often had the hoodoo over us).

I'm not so sure. When it comes to salvaging a campaign we usually rise to the challenge. It's like us always making the top 4 each year. If this were a last 16 game like Monaco or a game in the league where we have a chance to go top or build a lead, I'd see things differently. I wouldn't say crunch games are just about beating the top teams, the last few weeks where we have had a chance to go top of the league but dropped points; those were crunch games in my opinion. It's partly why I don't see this result as anything out of the norm for us and just another example of our inconsistency.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The thing is PnG if we had to beat a top side in order to reach top four would you expect us to do it?

[fakeyank]

The thing is PnG if we had to beat a top side in order to reach top four would you expect us to do it?

Wenger would poison the lasagna of the other team, but he'd make sure we get 4th. Frankly, I can see us beating Jesus if it meant us getting 4th place.

[Power n Glory]

The thing is PnG if we had to beat a top side in order to reach top four would you expect us to do it?

I don't know. Luckily for us we're unlikely to find ourselves in that situation for a top 4 finish.

[Özim]

Great result, not entirely surprised we've gone through as there's two things AW is good at getting 4th place and getting into the last 16 of the CL, everything else he's woefully inept at.

In all likelyness we'll play a decent side now and wave our goodbyes to the competition.

[Letters]

:lol: grudgingly impressed you still managed to sneak in a dig at Wenger after that result.

[Letters]

Great result, not entirely surprised we've gone through as there's two things AW is good at getting 4th place and getting into the last 16 of the CL, everything else he's woefully inept at.
Yeah, we haven't won a trophy for months :sulk:

Anyway, we're 2nd in the league and in the last 16 of the CL. So far so good.
We're doing better than your mate Mourinho, taking the reigning champions into a relegation battle.
Now THAT is woefully inept :d.

[GP]

Your face is woefully inept.

[Letters]

:(

[IBK]

Great result, not entirely surprised we've gone through as there's two things AW is good at getting 4th place and getting into the last 16 of the CL, everything else he's woefully inept at.

In all likelyness we'll play a decent side now and wave our goodbyes to the competition.

Woefully inept is over- egging it - but I can see what you are getting at - and you PnG to a degree.

With Wenger - it always seems sometimes like there's a glass ceiling for his teams that allows them to get so far - to flatter to deceive if you like - only to fall short of proper success. I guess what you are saying, PnG is that while we did undoubtedly show the mental strength, composure and team performance necessary to go through on Wednesday night - Wenger's teams are, and have always been, capable of pulling off a good result - never more so than in getting to our glass ceiling of last 16 CL qualification or top 4 EPL.

I suppose its perfectly valid for both of you to take the view that a 'real performance' would be one that ended up breaking our 'glass ceiling'.

And that's the problem I guess. I was genuinely impressed with us on Wednesday - but without evidence of a proper step up by this team it will be just another of the many causes for optimism that we have had over the years, only to ultimately be let down.

[Letters]

And that's the problem I guess. I was genuinely impressed with us on Wednesday - but without evidence of a proper step up by this team it will be just another of the many causes for optimism that we have had over the years, only to ultimately be let down.

What would you accept as evidence for a step up? I've listed endlessly a few signs of hope I see. The signings of people like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech has made a clear difference. We've finally started winning trophies again. Not the biggest prizes yet but it's a start. And some of the results in the last year or so have shown something - a few years ago we wouldn't have won either the away Utd game in the FA Cup or the home game this year. Before the home game this year many were predicting a repeat of previous home games vs Utd where we dominate possession but end up losing, but we blitzed them. Yes, some of those results have been followed by disappointing ones but isn't any season like that? It certainly has been this year for everyone, there has been no standout team this year.
Ultimately we'll only know whether we've stepped up come May - well, maybe earlier if we start to seriously fall out of the title race.

I was endlessly mocked early season for daring to suggest that maybe we should wait till the end of the season to see where we are but it's obvious. This result is a case in point. Do you judge our performance in the CL group stage after 2 games when it was looking like a fiasco or after 6 when we've qualified? Right now we're in the title race and we've qualified for the last 16 of the CL, I think that's a pretty decent season so far. Ultimately we'll only be able to assess the season properly and whether we've made progress or not at the end.

[Niall_Quinn]

What would you accept as evidence for a step up? I've listed endlessly a few signs of hope I see. The signings of people like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech has made a clear difference. We've finally started winning trophies again. Not the biggest prizes yet but it's a start. And some of the results in the last year or so have shown something - a few years ago we wouldn't have won either the away Utd game in the FA Cup or the home game this year. Before the home game this year many were predicting a repeat of previous home games vs Utd where we dominate possession but end up losing, but we blitzed them. Yes, some of those results have been followed by disappointing ones but isn't any season like that? It certainly has been this year for everyone, there has been no standout team this year.
Ultimately we'll only know whether we've stepped up come May - well, maybe earlier if we start to seriously fall out of the title race.

I was endlessly mocked early season for daring to suggest that maybe we should wait till the end of the season to see where we are but it's obvious. This result is a case in point. Do you judge our performance in the CL group stage after 2 games when it was looking like a fiasco or after 6 when we've qualified? Right now we're in the title race and we've qualified for the last 16 of the CL, I think that's a pretty decent season so far. Ultimately we'll only be able to assess the season properly and whether we've made progress or not at the end.

You judge it after ONE game and then you judge it again after the next. The things you are listing as progress are things a club like Arsenal should be doing at a minimum - signing decent players, winning the odd minor trophy, actually getting a few results against clubs that are supposed to be rivals. Minimum. This is what Wenger does well - the bare minimum. The fact we scraped through CL qualification does not eliminate his amateur hour fucks ups in the earlier rounds. When he stops making these fucks up then people will become more confident in our ability to mount and sustain a challenge for the big prizes. It's perfectly understandable, given the history, many fans are not cheering in a new era based on us scraping through a group that contained two teams making up the numbers.

[Power n Glory]

Woefully inept is over- egging it - but I can see what you are getting at - and you PnG to a degree.

With Wenger - it always seems sometimes like there's a glass ceiling for his teams that allows them to get so far - to flatter to deceive if you like - only to fall short of proper success. I guess what you are saying, PnG is that while we did undoubtedly show the mental strength, composure and team performance necessary to go through on Wednesday night - Wenger's teams are, and have always been, capable of pulling off a good result - never more so than in getting to our glass ceiling of last 16 CL qualification or top 4 EPL.

I suppose its perfectly valid for both of you to take the view that a 'real performance' would be one that ended up breaking our 'glass ceiling'.

And that's the problem I guess. I was genuinely impressed with us on Wednesday - but without evidence of a proper step up by this team it will be just another of the many causes for optimism that we have had over the years, only to ultimately be let down.

It was a good result with some solid performances. I won't downplay what we did on the night. But it's impossible to measure our progress off the back of one result or a handful of games. I can only hope individuals in the team like Campbell, Giroud..etc grow more in confidence and keep the good form going. There aren't many signs or indication left for us in terms of results. We just have to be consistent and end up winning the league or CL.

[Letters]

You judge it after ONE game and then you judge it again after the next.
Isn't that what leads to the ridiculous over-reacting on here though? I have a colleague like that. Draw with Norwich and we're awful, no chance of top 4. Beat Olympiacos to qualify and we're Champions elect and definitely going to do the treble. I find it bizarre.



The things you are listing as progress are things a club like Arsenal should be doing at a minimum - signing decent players, winning the odd minor trophy, actually getting a few results against clubs that are supposed to be rivals. Minimum. This is what Wenger does well - the bare minimum.

We weren't doing any of those things a few years ago. If (and I accept it is an if) we continue to push on then that's pretty much what progress means.
The FA Cup isn't a minor trophy but you know that of course.


The fact we scraped through CL qualification does not eliminate his amateur hour fucks ups in the earlier rounds.
Actually, it does. In that group we were expected to qualify in 2nd place to Bayern and we did. How we got there doesn't really matter.
Yes, we shouldn't have had to dig ourselves out of that hole but we did it - thanks in no small part to the Bayern result and don't underestimate that, they've only failed to win 3 games all season and when we beat them it was the first game they'd failed to win up to that point.


When he stops making these fucks up then people will become more confident in our ability to mount and sustain a challenge for the big prizes. It's perfectly understandable, given the history, many fans are not cheering in a new era based on us scraping through a group that contained two teams making up the numbers
Some reservation and doubt is understandable, but calling for his head after every poor result (and sometimes after some good ones) is ridiculous.
We're 2nd in the league (might not be after today's results) and have just qualified for the CL last 16. I don't think we're good enough to win the CL but I do think we're good enough to win the PL, while we're in the hunt for that I'll get behind the team and the manager. If we fall away then yes, Wenger out. But at least wait till it happens.

[Power n Glory]

What would you accept as evidence for a step up? I've listed endlessly a few signs of hope I see. The signings of people like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech has made a clear difference. We've finally started winning trophies again. Not the biggest prizes yet but it's a start. And some of the results in the last year or so have shown something - a few years ago we wouldn't have won either the away Utd game in the FA Cup or the home game this year. Before the home game this year many were predicting a repeat of previous home games vs Utd where we dominate possession but end up losing, but we blitzed them. Yes, some of those results have been followed by disappointing ones but isn't any season like that? It certainly has been this year for everyone, there has been no standout team this year.
Ultimately we'll only know whether we've stepped up come May - well, maybe earlier if we start to seriously fall out of the title race.

I was endlessly mocked early season for daring to suggest that maybe we should wait till the end of the season to see where we are but it's obvious. This result is a case in point. Do you judge our performance in the CL group stage after 2 games when it was looking like a fiasco or after 6 when we've qualified? Right now we're in the title race and we've qualified for the last 16 of the CL, I think that's a pretty decent season so far. Ultimately we'll only be able to assess the season properly and whether we've made progress or not at the end.

You say the same thing every year which is why you're mocked.

With so many of our rivals, like Man Utd, looking so much weaker, should we really draw that much satisfaction from finally beating them this year? Is that a measure of our progress or their decline? Again, I can't really look too deeply into the teams we've beaten or the results because we've beaten big teams like Barca, Bayern, Chelsea, City, AC Milan....etc before and it's always supposed to act as some sort of springboard to bigger things but that's not the case. For me, the more important signs to look out for this season will be the January transfer window. I think this is the 4th time we've been in this position where we're in the running for the title but need signings to help with our injury crisis and keep us in the hunt. We'll soon find out if lessons have been learned. It's bad enough that we've crocked our players and haven't managed fitness levels better. These are the signs you should be looking for. The problems that have plagued us for years on end and cost us.

[Niall_Quinn]

You've carefully framed every argument so you can make your stock counter argument. Nobody has called for Wenger's head after one bad game. People are calling for his head after a decade of under-achievement. "But you know that of course."

[Letters]

You've carefully framed every argument so you can make your stock counter argument. Nobody has called for Wenger's head after one bad game. People are calling for his head after a decade of under-achievement. "But you know that of course."

Yes, I do understand that but it's a simplistic argument which fails to account for the fact that the last 10 years need to be split into 2 sections, one where we had some belt tightening while the billionaires were running amok and 2 years when the new financial deals were in place and we started to sign a different level of player which should see us more seriously competing.

We should have won a trophy or 2 in those 8 years and at times Wenger probably should have been sacked.
The last 2. We'll have to agree to disagree that 2 FA Cups is underachievement. I do think we should have challenged for the league last year, our failure to do so is damning, the FA Cup retention mitigates it. Overall it wasn't a disastrous season nor an outstanding one. This season we need to push on and properly challenge. I've said repeatedly Wenger should be sacked if we don't. So far though, we are. While that continues he'll have my support.
Saying "Wenger Out" at every opportunity while we're still in the title race is just silly.

[Letters]

You say the same thing every year which is why you're mocked.
I'm mocked because people constantly argue against things I'm not saying rather than addressing what I am saying.


With so many of our rivals, like Man Utd, looking so much weaker, should we really draw that much satisfaction from finally beating them this year?
Weaker than what? Utd have a point more than they did at this stage last season.
This whole statement smacks of goalpost shifting. If we failed to beat them (as most predicted we would) then you could guarantee this place would have been flooded with "told you so's" and "nothing has changed". We sweep them aside and it's just because they're weak? They've only lost 2 league games this year and they're only 3 points off the top.


For me, the more important signs to look out for this season will be the January transfer window. I think this is the 4th time we've been in this position where we're in the running for the title but need signings to help with our injury crisis and keep us in the hunt. We'll soon find out if lessons have been learned. It's bad enough that we've crocked our players and haven't managed fitness levels better. These are the signs you should be looking for. The problems that have plagued us for years on end and cost us.

I don't hold out any hope we'll sign anyone of note in January and if we fail to sustain a title challenge then Wenger should be sacked. But I, for one, will at least wait till it happens rather than calling for his head after every setback regardless of whether that sees us fall out of the title race or not.

[Niall_Quinn]

What a hero.

[fakeyank]

You judge it after ONE game and then you judge it again after the next. The things you are listing as progress are things a club like Arsenal should be doing at a minimum - signing decent players, winning the odd minor trophy, actually getting a few results against clubs that are supposed to be rivals. Minimum. This is what Wenger does well - the bare minimum. The fact we scraped through CL qualification does not eliminate his amateur hour fucks ups in the earlier rounds. When he stops making these fucks up then people will become more confident in our ability to mount and sustain a challenge for the big prizes. It's perfectly understandable, given the history, many fans are not cheering in a new era based on us scraping through a group that contained two teams making up the numbers.

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

I'm mocked because people constantly argue against things I'm not saying rather than addressing what I am saying.


Weaker than what? Utd have a point more than they did at this stage last season.
This whole statement smacks of goalpost shifting. If we failed to beat them (as most predicted we would) then you could guarantee this place would have been flooded with "told you so's" and "nothing has changed". We sweep them aside and it's just because they're weak? They've only lost 2 league games this year and they're only 3 points off the top.



I don't hold out any hope we'll sign anyone of note in January and if we fail to sustain a title challenge then Wenger should be sacked. But I, for one, will at least wait till it happens rather than calling for his head after every setback regardless of whether that sees us fall out of the title race or not.

Goal post shifting? Remember who you're talking to. Before that Utd game it's a one off result that means very little. Win, lose or draw. I didn't put much stock into that game and we had a conversation about that beforehand.

You're the one shifting goal posts with this Utd argument. You've used Utd as a cautionary tale of what can happen when switching managers. Don't act like this is the same Man Utd side can compare to Fergie's.

For crying out loud, I'm not even calling for Wenger's head. Just talking about our signs of progress and what we need to do to move forward.

[IBK]

What would you accept as evidence for a step up? I've listed endlessly a few signs of hope I see. The signings of people like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech has made a clear difference. We've finally started winning trophies again. Not the biggest prizes yet but it's a start. And some of the results in the last year or so have shown something - a few years ago we wouldn't have won either the away Utd game in the FA Cup or the home game this year. Before the home game this year many were predicting a repeat of previous home games vs Utd where we dominate possession but end up losing, but we blitzed them. Yes, some of those results have been followed by disappointing ones but isn't any season like that? It certainly has been this year for everyone, there has been no standout team this year.
Ultimately we'll only know whether we've stepped up come May - well, maybe earlier if we start to seriously fall out of the title race.

I was endlessly mocked early season for daring to suggest that maybe we should wait till the end of the season to see where we are but it's obvious. This result is a case in point. Do you judge our performance in the CL group stage after 2 games when it was looking like a fiasco or after 6 when we've qualified? Right now we're in the title race and we've qualified for the last 16 of the CL, I think that's a pretty decent season so far. Ultimately we'll only be able to assess the season properly and whether we've made progress or not at the end.

I will concede that we have stepped up only after a period when, rather than pullling the odd decent result out (which we have done for quite a few seasons now) - we show that the problems that have dogged Wenger - lapses in concentration; self-destructing in games we should easily win; converting too few of our chances and replacement players failing to shine, not to mention persistent injuries to key personnel - are being addressed on a consistent basis. And these issues persist despite a significantly weaker challenge from our traditional rivals.

These problems have remained a feature of our season, despite us having better players in some positions. I will not deny that there seem to be green shoots in some areas. But for all these, we are still not in a very significantly different place this season than we have been at times in the past few years. Our team's performance and characteristics over this period invite a healthy and justifiable dose of cynicism. More is needed before we can be convinced that things are really any different now.

Of course, we can only be judged conclusively at the end of the season. Noone is really disputing this - but you have been where you are plenty of times over recent seasons, only for the end result to be underwhelming.

[Letters]

Of course, we can only be judged conclusively at the end of the season. Noone is really disputing this.
Actually loads of people have disputed that :lol:
It's what I was saying early season and was endlessly mocked for it.

I generally agree with a lot of your post. I see some signs of hope but accept we could well just go and balls it up. While we're in the hunt though I'll believe we have a chance, IMO we have the players to finish the job this time...if we can keep them fit.