Who Will Win The League - 2

[Letters]

I think this is a good time for a recount.
It's so hard to call this year.

Leicester - well, improbably they're still there and they've got the best run-in, I think. But do they have the legs for it and will they cope with the pressure of suddenly almost being favourites? And what has last Sunday done to them psychologically?

Spurs - No, just...no. :sulk:. They don't have a great run in but they are the form team right now. Being in the cup competitions could harm them though as they don't have that great a squad. They've got a chance but I still reckon they'll have a nosebleed at some point.

Arsenal - Well, in theory I think we've got the best squad (better than Leicester and Spurs, certainly) and we've got players who have been there and done it at the business end of the season. We're getting our best players back from injury now - Sanchez, Ozil...Welbeck :d. But you can never really trust us and we have some tough away games. If last Sunday doesn't push us on then nothing will.

City - Should be favourites but they're a squad of mercenaries and Pep in the summer may put them into holiday mode till he arrives. They've got the ability but maybe not the mentality for this season.


Sod it, I'm going to say us. Very hard to call though.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's on!

[Kano]

Tottenham

[Letters]

Tottenham

That's a banning <_<

[Kano]

That's a banning <_<

Head over heart.

But I voted for us.

[Niall_Quinn]

Who voted for the spuds?

[Letters]

Who voted for the spuds?

That's a banning <_<

#jasper

[hobson's choice]

I think this is a good time for a recount.
It's so hard to call this year.

Leicester - well, improbably they're still there and they've got the best run-in, I think. But do they have the legs for it and will they cope with the pressure of suddenly almost being favourites? And what has last Sunday done to them psychologically?

Spurs - No, just...no. :sulk:. They don't have a great run in but they are the form team right now. Being in the cup competitions could harm them though as they don't have that great a squad. They've got a chance but I still reckon they'll have a nosebleed at some point.

Arsenal - Well, in theory I think we've got the best squad (better than Leicester and Spurs, certainly) and we've got players who have been there and done it at the business end of the season. We're getting our best players back from injury now - Sanchez, Ozil...Welbeck :d. But you can never really trust us and we have some tough away games. If last Sunday doesn't push us on then nothing will.

City - Should be favourites but they're a squad of mercenaries and Pep in the summer may put them into holiday mode till he arrives. They've got the ability but maybe not the mentality for this season.


Sod it, I'm going to say us. Very hard to call though.

From the midfield back to the defense minus Cech, Spurs may have a better team than us. They definitely are more organized than us from the midfield to defense.

[Marc Overmars]

Incredibly hard to call. Leicester and Spurs just don't seem phased by anything and they're very difficult to beat, which makes them quite dangerous. We have the weight of expectation and pressure on us to win it, our squad is superior but it will come down to how we manage that pressure. We've been wobbling for a while now but hopefully last weekend has breathed new life into our challenge. City seem to be too inconsistent to win it but with Aguero bailing them out I'm sure they'll remain in touch, after all their 2 recent title wins were built on late surges of form.

In short; fuck knows. If we finish below Leicester or Spurs though, what an embarrassment that would be.

[hobson's choice]

In short; fuck knows. If we finish below Leicester or Spurs though, what an embarrassment that would be.


Honestly we have no business making comments like this, especially regarding Spurs.

Other than 1 more win than them, they've been better. So far, they've scored more goals, been the stingiest defense in the league.

Poch addressed their major issue, which was their defense. Ive never seen a Spurs team this disciplined from the midfield to the defense.

This aint the same ole Spurs.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is a shit league stuffed with shit teams. The spuds can't be that far ahead of where they usually are in any given season and the same goes for us. It's the lack of the usual big guns at the top that makes a very ordinary bunch of spuds, a typically disorganised Wenger team and a Leicester punching way above their weight seem impressive. And Leicester are. They've achieved way beyond. Same can't be said of the four below them. All shite by any decent standard. If the spuds really are that good they should be a mile ahead in this shitfest of a league. They have the sharp end of the season to come and they'll do what they always do and do so well, crumble. One injury and they're gone. They're a pub outfit like all the others and I suppose they might piss their way to the top if everyone around them passes out. But let's not get carried away and pretend they are a decent team. Better organised than us, sure, but that's hardly an achievement. We have Wenger. And even with Wenger our lads are still up there neck and neck with the spuds. So how good can they actually be?

[Globalgunner]

The invincibles would have walked all over this league. We are poor, Leicester are extra-ordinary for a Leicester team and the Spuds are punching above their weight, thanks to an astute manager. City are just a maelstrom of improbables. How on earth can such a talented team seem so poor. They should ditch Toure from now to improve the team by 30%.

It is already a sad indictment of our club that for all our bluster about business acumen, shrewd investment, continuity, and world class players we are blowing hard to keep pace with a team with players 1/10th of our value and the Spuds operating on 60% of our budget. At Arsenal we dont seem to get anymore what being a football club is all about. Now its just having the best possible bank balance and giving an old gentleman a genteel retirement while still keeping his job.

I dont think we will win it. I believe and hope Leicester do.

[Marc Overmars]

Honestly we have no business making comments like this, especially regarding Spurs.

Other than 1 more win than them, they've been better. So far, they've scored more goals, been the stingiest defense in the league.

Poch addressed their major issue, which was their defense. Ive never seen a Spurs team this disciplined from the midfield to the defense.

This aint the same ole Spurs.

Sure, but considering our team cost more (in transfer fees and wages) and we've been trying to challenge for donkey's years, how would it look if Spurs came along after just 2 years with their manager and not only finished above us, but *shudder* won the title?

We have every business voicing concerns over teams operating at a far smaller budget than us, yet matching us stride for stride. We were always quick to point out how Chelsea, City and United had more financial muscle than us when we were struggling to get a look in, so we can't have it both ways now we're in the mix.

[Kano]

Hard to call the run-in for anyone because matches 'on paper' change at this time of year, especially given the track record of results so far this season across the board. I think this season has seen the most away victories since the start of the PL, which only further highlights the shift towards counter attacking so many teams are employing.

My biggest concern is if we are still in with a shout of the title ahead of the second leg to Barca, what an absolute arse kicking by their front three will do to us. Wenger has surely played this modern Barca outfit to be able to avoid being shat on again, surely?

[Bumble]

We will win the league. I have put money on it (actually it was the money I won after the last minute Welbeck goal).

We should win the league too. We have the biggest squad of the top three plus we only have two more CL games to focus on. I still fancy us for a league and cup double.

We have to win the league this season, we wont have a better opportunity as City, United, Liverpool and Chelsea will all be better next season. 3 with new managers to impress and one with newish manager who has bedded in.

The other thing is that we are having players returned from being injured and I think Welbecks return could be crucial in the run in as it gives us another option.... as he is a mix of Walcott and Giroud (yes not exactly Messi).

[Chippy]

Who voted for the spuds?
Sorry Quinny! I did! Been saying the scum will win it for two months. Nothing so far has changed my mind. How fucking depressing!

[selassie]

I couldn't vote for Spuds even though I privately think they will do it this season. This season kind of depresses the hell out of me, it's exciting that we are a legit title challenger but we have so much to lose here if we don't win it. If we don't win the league and finish below the Spuds or Leicester it's the end for Wenger IMO, the backlash would be immense.

I'm excited...but extremely nervous and pessimistic about our chances, past history has scared me and I just don't feel positive. I think if we were playing well I would be confident but we are literally clinging on at the minute and we have a difficult run-in.

I think the saving grace is we are near to full strength and surely will improve because we've been playing quite poorly for a few months now.

I voted Leicester :(

[Chippy]

I think this is a good time for a recount.
It's so hard to call this year.

Leicester - well, improbably they're still there and they've got the best run-in, I think. But do they have the legs for it and will they cope with the pressure of suddenly almost being favourites? And what has last Sunday done to them psychologically?

Spurs - No, just...no. :sulk:. They don't have a great run in but they are the form team right now. Being in the cup competitions could harm them though as they don't have that great a squad. They've got a chance but I still reckon they'll have a nosebleed at some point.

Arsenal - Well, in theory I think we've got the best squad (better than Leicester and Spurs, certainly) and we've got players who have been there and done it at the business end of the season. We're getting our best players back from injury now - Sanchez, Ozil...Welbeck :d. But you can never really trust us and we have some tough away games. If last Sunday doesn't push us on then nothing will.

City - Should be favourites but they're a squad of mercenaries and Pep in the summer may put them into holiday mode till he arrives. They've got the ability but maybe not the mentality for this season.


Sod it, I'm going to say us. Very hard to call though.

Was anyone else a bit glad that Leicester won today? Otherwise the Spuds probably would have gone top tomorrow.

[Ernesto]

Was anyone else a bit glad that Leicester won today? Otherwise the Spuds probably would have gone top tomorrow.

Me 😕

[Globalgunner]

Yep!. The thought of the Spuds winning it is too much to even contemplate.

[selassie]

We're not winning it this season. Bunch of wasters.

[adzzzbatch]

It's gonna be sp*rs.

The shambles that is Arsenal might fluke the FA cup, but apart from that we ain't winning fuck all, not until wenger cunts off.

[selassie]

It's gonna be sp*rs.

The shambles that is Arsenal might fluke the FA cup, but apart from that we ain't winning fuck all, not until wenger cunts off.

If they win it Wenger should just resign.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If they win it Wenger should just resign.

No need for the first four words.

[selassie]

No need for the first four words.

:lol:

[Letters]

Leicester have the best run in, if they hold their nerve they'll win it.
Otherwise it'll be Spurs


:ilt:

[Ernesto]

I'm going to be stupidly optimistic now.

I want to forget the run we're on, I want to forget the fact that we have a stubborn oaf as a manager. I want to say that the next two games are the ones that we will win and bring us right back into it.

Beat Swansea. Beat Spurs. Importantly, take 3 points off Spurs in the process. Then we're (at worst) only 2 points behind Leicester with them to play later on on the same day. For once, the pressure is on them. Heck, even if they beat a tricky looking Watford team at Vicarage Road, I think winning the two games by this time next week really gets us back into it.

As much as Wenger and the players will work to undo the hard work from earlier in the season, we have to believe, don't we?

[Özim]

We're not winning it this season. Bunch of wasters.

Pretty much, I'd have been shocked to see us win it to be honest, never thought we were up to it, we've been unconvincing for a large part of the season and don't deserve it.

[Özim]

I'm going to be stupidly optimistic now.

I want to forget the run we're on, I want to forget the fact that we have a stubborn oaf as a manager. I want to say that the next two games are the ones that we will win and bring us right back into it.

Beat Swansea. Beat Spurs. Importantly, take 3 points off Spurs in the process. Then we're (at worst) only 2 points behind Leicester with them to play later on on the same day. For once, the pressure is on them. Heck, even if they beat a tricky looking Watford team at Vicarage Road, I think winning the two games by this time next week really gets us back into it.

As much as Wenger and the players will work to undo the hard work from earlier in the season, we have to believe, don't we?

We haven't got a hope in hell to be honest, we're collapsing like we always do, the team and manager have no bottle and never will have, it's proven......when the pressure is really on there's noone with the guts to make things happen and it comes from the top.

We've blown it by dropping far too many points in recent games our form has been awful.

[selassie]

I'm going to be stupidly optimistic now.

I want to forget the run we're on, I want to forget the fact that we have a stubborn oaf as a manager. I want to say that the next two games are the ones that we will win and bring us right back into it.

Beat Swansea. Beat Spurs. Importantly, take 3 points off Spurs in the process. Then we're (at worst) only 2 points behind Leicester with them to play later on on the same day. For once, the pressure is on them. Heck, even if they beat a tricky looking Watford team at Vicarage Road, I think winning the two games by this time next week really gets us back into it.

As much as Wenger and the players will work to undo the hard work from earlier in the season, we have to believe, don't we?

Don't do it to yourself bro, it's over...we're not winning it.

I was going over stuff this morning before the game, there was a small part of me that thought maybe just maybe if we get a result today we'll kick on.

We can't win it because the players and manager don't have the right mentality. We're a lot more inconsistent than the Spuds or Leicester, out of the 3 of us, we're the most likely to collapse under pressure, pretty sad considering the quality in each of the teams squads.

We've been given enough chances this season and we keep blowing it. Our away fixtures for the run-in are brutal too, if anything we should be keeping a close eye on the chasing pack for top 4.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If we continue with this form, we could well drop out of the top 4.

Part of me wants that to happen. But it won't, because the money is too important.

[Marc Overmars]

If we win the next 2 we're X points behind.

If we can win the next 3 we're X points behind.

If we can win the next 2 after that we're X points behind.

If we can...oh, we're out of games.

It's over lads, don't waste your time with the ifs and buts.

[Niall_Quinn]

IF:

We kick the incompetent fool of a manager we have out the door and get a proper manager in;

We kidnap Kroenke and dump him in a slurry lake on one of his own ranches;

We get back to the basics of football like passing and shooting;

Maybe we can overhaul Leicester City.

And it will have only cost the fans thousands a year over 10 years.

[Bumble]

Next 4 fixtures
Leicester West Brom (H) Watford (A) Newcastle (H) Palace (A) I see at least 3 wins there
Spuds West Ham(A) Us (H) Villa (A) Bournemouth (H) Optimistically 2 wins and draw
Us Swansea (H) Spuds (A) West Brom (H) Everton (A) Optimistically 2 wins and a draw
City Liverpool (A) Villa (H) Norwich (A) United (H) 2/3 wins and a draw

And then in April Leicester have three home fixtures - it does look like theirs to lose... perhaps Wenger could give Ranieri a call and talk him through how to handle pressure.

[JaneEmily]

Meh different season, same old bullshit story. On paper we always look like we SHOULD be up there and theoretically we have the quality of players who should be capable of doing such a thing, but in reality we're just pathetic weaklings who would struggle against a team of ducks.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It is interesting how you watch Arsenal between 2001 and 2005 and the one thing that stands out is how direct we are, back to front in two maybe three passes top.

Built a system to play around a player who left the club almost five years ago.

We do have good individuals in our side but not a team

[Marc Overmars]

We do have good individuals in our side but not a team

Plenty of talent but nothing flows. Every attack is so mechanical and thought out, we don't do anything off the cuff, there is nothing unpredictable about us to panic the opposition. Video analysis of us must be a doddle.

[Niall_Quinn]

It is interesting how you watch Arsenal between 2001 and 2005 and the one thing that stands out is how direct we are, back to front in two maybe three passes top.

Built a system to play around a player who left the club almost five years ago.

We do have good individuals in our side but not a team

Back to front with speed and precision and the midfield advancing with pace to support the front men but crucially keeping they shape. No wandering all over the place, it was a unit operating as one. We still pinged the ball around but every pass had a purpose. Now we pass it around to buy time because there's no movement ahead and there's no pace, zero urgency. We are the opposite of those teams from the past, worse in every aspect of the game. If Wenger persists he'll have taken us back to where we were before he arrived, in fact he'll have taken us further backwards. `we can't pass a ball any more. And Arsenal team that can't pass. How did we manage that?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

True we have massively over relied on Ozil to be our creative outlet, he is unpredictable in the sense that he can see a pass which few others can.

[AFC Leveller]

Spurs have West ham away on Wednesday, they should drop points there and then you'd hope we wouldnt roll over for them on Sunday.

[Letters]

And then in April Leicester have three home fixtures - it does look like theirs to lose... perhaps Wenger could give Ranieri a call and talk him through how to handle pressure.
There's always pressure and we've won in plenty of pressure games over the last couple of years.
Maybe it is a factor but there's more to it than that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Spurs have West ham away on Wednesday, they should drop points there and then you'd hope we wouldnt roll over for them on Sunday.

Oh come on don't do it yourself

We aren't going to win the league, it doesn't matter what the teams above us do because we will never Capatalise

Whose to say we will even beat Swansea on Wednesday? You know who scored the goal the last time we beat them in the league at the Emirates? Arshavin!

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh come on don't do it yourself

We aren't going to win the league, it doesn't matter what the teams above us do because we will never Capatalise

Whose to say we will even beat Swansea on Wednesday? You know who scored the goal the last time we beat them in the league at the Emirates? Arshavin!

You capitalised capitalise.

[The Verminator]

If we beat Swansea and Spurs in the next 2 games I still think we can turn this around.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You capitalised capitalise.

I could blame my phone

And in fact I will

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If we beat Swansea and Spurs in the next 2 games I still think we can turn this around.

But we won't

[Letters]

You capitalised capitalise.

:haha:

[Letters]

If we beat Swansea and Spurs in the next 2 games I still think we can turn this around.

The Letters is dead.

Long live The Letters

:bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

If we beat Swansea and Spurs in the next 2 games I still think we can turn this around.

I think we have a strong chance of getting 6 points over the next 2 games, but only so we can drop 7 from 9 thereafter. You know how it goes by now.

[AFC Leveller]

Oh come on don't do it yourself

We aren't going to win the league, it doesn't matter what the teams above us do because we will never Capatalise

Whose to say we will even beat Swansea on Wednesday? You know who scored the goal the last time we beat them in the league at the Emirates? Arshavin!

Haha after the game yesterday i thought thats it, we are out of it and this useless manager has got to go but then when you think of the opportunities we have, it is hard to understand how this bunch can fuck up everytime.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Haha after the game yesterday i thought thats it, we are out of it and this useless manager has got to go but then when you think of the opportunities we have, it is hard to understand how this bunch can fuck up everytime.

One day when we've all long ceased to care the truth of what goes on at our club will emerge?.

[Niall_Quinn]

One day when we've all long ceased to care the truth of what goes on at our club will emerge?.

weird, I had the same though earlier. What will the truth of this period be like when it finally emerges? We've had hints from the players that have left. I wonder what the likes of Ozil and Alexis will say? You can see the frustration etched on their faces during the games these days.

[Marc Overmars]

If we beat Swansea and Spurs in the next 2 games I still think we can turn this around.

I would be utterly amazed if we won at WHL.

We've won just 4 of our last 10 since we beat City. Forget the next 2, we probably need to win at least 5 in a row to haul ourselves back into realistic contention.

[JaneEmily]

I would be utterly amazed if we won at WHL.

When was the last time we achieved a comfortable win there? Other than when Flamini scored.

[Kano]

I would be utterly amazed if we won at WHL.

We've won just 4 of our last 10 since we beat City. Forget the next 2, we probably need to win at least 5 in a row to haul ourselves back into realistic contention.

It would be just like this team to win at Spuds. Create more hope and then lose at home to West Brom.

[Letters]

It would be just like this team to win at Spuds. Create more hope and then lose at home to West Brom.

:lol: I actually sometimes feel like they HATE us and contrive to find the most inventive ways to distress us each season

[The Verminator]

But we won't

It remains to be seen. The defeatist attitude is a logical outcome from what we have observed but it's infinitely less crazy to say we can't win the next 2 games than saying Leicester fucking City would be top of the table at the start of the season. This season has proved more than at any time I can remember that football can be a very unpredictable sport and anything can still happen. I won't give up hope before it's completely out of reach. 5 points behind Leicester and 3 behind Spurs is no major cause for concern in itself. We've all seen how dire we have been recently and it really is the same old story. But I'd much rather get behind my team and see if we can make it for the final stretch.

[The Verminator]

The Letters is dead.

Long live The Letters

:bow:

I have been off this forum for a very long time - reading sporadically but not contributing.

Letters - I know the crowd has been against you; so much so you may have been the only positive voice on here perhaps (not been reading enough to know for sure). I would say if you are one who is still going to the games then please try keep the atmosphere positive. We all agree Wenger needs to go but much better to focus on that at the end of the season. If supporters can add a few % to the morale of the team then that could be the difference.

Edit - reading back it doesn't come across as I intended. I mean to support you rather than pressurise you. The atmosphere at the stadium is pretty bleak from what I can tell and who can blame the fans for that. But if those who can remain positive do, then it could rally us a little. And with the title race as mad and unpredictable as it has been; every tiny advantage could help.

[The Verminator]

I think we have a strong chance of getting 6 points over the next 2 games, but only so we can drop 7 from 9 thereafter. You know how it goes by now.

I understand your humour NQ as well as the seriousness of the point you are making. But wouldn't you agree that it's better to just get behind the team until the season closes? After that extreme inquisition and relentless persecution of the fools in charge should commence, assuming that we predictably make a big mess of things.

[The Verminator]

I would be utterly amazed if we won at WHL.

We've won just 4 of our last 10 since we beat City. Forget the next 2, we probably need to win at least 5 in a row to haul ourselves back into realistic contention.

I wouldn't be amazed at all. I'm certainly not brimming with confidence but you have to look at it both ways. The Spurs players will be under enormous pressure themselves. As much as we are undoubtedly deserving of the title bottlers, you can only say it doubly against them. Sure, they have looked very tidy this season but to think they are going to just walk it the rest of the season is unlikely I would say. I can see a lot of cracks appearing in all our rivals, just as we have seen with ourselves.

[Niall_Quinn]

I understand your humour NQ as well as the seriousness of the point you are making. But wouldn't you agree that it's better to just get behind the team until the season closes? After that extreme inquisition and relentless persecution of the fools in charge should commence, assuming that we predictably make a big mess of things.

The fans will get behind the team on match days, I'm sure. The same can't be said about the team getting behind the fans though, so far. The manager has let everyone down, for the 10th season in a row so he can do one.

[selassie]

I wouldn't be amazed at all. I'm certainly not brimming with confidence but you have to look at it both ways. The Spurs players will be under enormous pressure themselves. As much as we are undoubtedly deserving of the title bottlers, you can only say it doubly against them. Sure, they have looked very tidy this season but to think they are going to just walk it the rest of the season is unlikely I would say. I can see a lot of cracks appearing in all our rivals, just as we have seen with ourselves.

Spurs go into Saturday's game as overwhelming favourites given their current form which stretches back to January. Spurs and Leicester are odds on to finish above us if we base current form as an indicator to who finishes where at the end of the season.

We are in a real pickle at the moment, not only are we not putting a winning run together but we're struggling in the games we are winning, we haven't won convincingly for a long time. We are seriously going to need to pull something special out of the bag to win the title this season.

You say you can see cracks appearing in all our rivals? Spurs have won what 8 games on the trot in PL, how are cracks appearing for them? Leicester's record this year is near flawless aside from their defeat to us.

The only team that is showing cracks is Arsenal, we are in a mess and the only way to get out of it is for us to win the remaining games from now on in.

[Marc Overmars]

Leicester and Spurs are showing cracks? If that's the case we must be bloody showing craters.

[GP]

Since the win over City in December we're played 10 won 4.

that's disastrous.

[LDG]

Since the win over City in December we're played 10 won 4.

that's disastrous.

City was the last time we played well too.

We've struggled in every match since.

Wenger just doesn't know how to balance his team.....we're waiting for him to stumble upon a new fix....which will probably happen with a few games to go, and start us off to a flyer next season, before we lose players to injury and the whole mess starts over again.

[Kano]

City was the last time we played well too.

We've struggled in every match since.

Wenger just doesn't know how to balance his team.....we're waiting for him to stumble upon a new fix....which will probably happen with a few games to go, and start us off to a flyer next season, before we lose players to injury and the whole mess starts over again.

Putting Cazorla centrally and Ramsey out wide worked very well. That's what inspired the confidence from midway through last season. But since losing Cazora, we've had no-one else who can do that well enough, Ramsey is too kamikaze in the middle and our wide players are absolute turd.

[LDG]

Putting Cazorla centrally and Ramsey out wide worked very well. That's what inspired the confidence from midway through last season. But since losing Cazora, we've had no-one else who can do that well enough, Ramsey is too kamikaze in the middle and our wide players are absolute turd.

I agree, but being in charge of a top team, you would hope that the manager would either be able to rebalance his team within a few games, or set it straight in the transfer market (even if it's a stop gap).

He fucks around with blind faith, and it keeps falling apart.

Or course, the injury to Cazorla came at the wrong time (it always does), because we never have plan B. Never.

[Kano]

I agree, but being in charge of a top team, you would hope that the manager would either be able to rebalance his team within a few games, or set it straight in the transfer market (even if it's a stop gap).

He fucks around with blind faith, and it keeps falling apart.

Or course, the injury to Cazorla came at the wrong time (it always does), because we never have plan B. Never.

That is true. The Flamini/Ramsey thing should've been sorted a month ago and the same goes for Ramsey/Le Coq now too. We do have other players who can distribute but it takes until we are in the real shit to think of them as an alternative.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wonder does Wenger pay any attention to what has happened in the past? When you hear him speak it's as if everything is new and unusual. Yes, we have had a bad week, but we must bounce back. Doesn't he get that these "bad weeks" are seasonally routine? How many pivotal weeks have we fucked up now? How many times have we gone from being treble contenders (theoretically based on the fact we haven't been knocked out - yet) to, "Oh well, I hope we at least finish above the spuds!"

It really is disingenuous of him to pretend these are isolated setbacks that could happen to any club at any time. "Other clubs will drop points", he states. Yeah, we hope so because we're relying on other teams to fuck up because we're not good enough to stake a claim ourselves. At least he hasn't had the brass balls to complain about Cazorla's absence. I'm not surprised. Everyone and his wife told him he needed to bring in quality in the midfield. He knew better and here we are as usual, well not even as usual because we're trailing Leicester and the spuds :doh:

It takes some fucking doing to go backwards having spent £85mill on players of the calibre of Ozil, Alexis and Cech. Fuck me. That's hard to comprehend. With his apparent inability to recognise the past, let alone learn from it, his inability to leverage quality when it comes through the door and his unwillingness to go the extra yard and round out the resources to push us on then I guess yes, £70million in the summer would be an outrage. Zero would be appropriate. Only thing is I can't stand the idea all that money might leech into Stan's wallet over time. I;d rather pay £100mill for Kalou than see Stan rob it.

[LDG]

That is true. The Flamini/Ramsey thing should've been sorted a month ago and the same goes for Ramsey/Le Coq now too. We do have other players who can distribute but it takes until we are in the real shit to think of them as an alternative.

What most managers would do, if they didn't have a solution in the first team, would be to fast track a kid into the position. That person may be in-experienced, but at least it would retain the balance of the side. We have had plenty of those diminutive technical players in the u18s etc. Just bring one of them in for a few matches as short term solution....you never know, it might work out like Rashford for Utd, or Bellerin for us just recently.

But no. He simply must play what he thinks is an alternative, rather than understand what made the team tick in the first place.

That said, the Coq/Santi thing was starting to fail before either of them got injured. Teams worked it out.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger doesn't know what he's doing. Stumbled upon the Cazorla Coquelin duo through injury and having no other options. Coquelin had to be recalled remember and I don't understand why someone that can play DM as well as wingback was loaned out. The pairing made a huge difference to how our season ended and why we've been able to challenge this year. I don't get how he can see these players in training and not know where they should be best played for this team.

If he had all players available to him we'd never see that duo paired in the middle. Example, when we took that 6-0 beating at Stamford Bridge, he had Oxlade Chamberlain starting as CM with Arteta. :doh: Cazorla as Attacking mid and Rosicky on the right wing! Rosicky is another player very influential as CM so why in the world has he got Ox and Rosicky in reverse roles? What's the reasoning? That's two very good ball players that can dictate the game from deep available but he chose to play Ox as CM for a massive game. Why?

When we lost 3-0 to Everton, he starts with Arteta and Flamini as the duo, Rosicky as attacking mid and Cazorla playing on the right wing. We've had plenty of games where Flamini and Arteta duo failed and if both fit an available, I doubt we'd see the end of that disastrous duo. He really doesn't know what he's doing. We're seeing the same mistakes this season. We bought Kallstrom that season as well. :lol: Similar to us buying Moh. A pointless signing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Kallstrom, Sanogo and Elmo are all indicative of this happy families culture. Don't buy competitive threats, buy second rate cover that won't upset anyone and will be delighted to warm the bench because it's London, it's Arsenal. No headaches for anyone. No value to the team but at least everyone is smiling. In the end these guys all play anyway because we are always on the cusp of the next injury crisis. Flamini only turned up for a bit of keep fit. He must be laughing his bollocks off at how things have worked out for him. But, you know, he keeps Ozil happy so it's worth it.

As for Ox the central midfielder, well Wenger is so clever that he sees and knows stuff no ordinary fan will ever see. You really need to have made 20,000 substitutions to appreciate what the ball losing, can't pass Ox can do for us in the middle.

[Letters]

City was the last time we played well too.

We've struggled in every match since.

Wenger just doesn't know how to balance his team.....we're waiting for him to stumble upon a new fix....which will probably happen with a few games to go, and start us off to a flyer next season, before we lose players to injury and the whole mess starts over again.

But what has be particularly done difference since the City game?
A few days later we went to Southampton and got battered, it can't have been that different a side.
I don't buy it's pressure - there was pressure on the City game, there's pressure on every game really to different degrees.
Right now we are looking like a very mediocre side, bereft of ideas. But this is pretty much the same group of players who bear City comfortably and looked like title contenders.

[selassie]

But what has be particularly done difference since the City game?
A few days later we went to Southampton and got battered, it can't have been that different a side.
I don't buy it's pressure - there was pressure on the City game, there's pressure on every game really to different degrees.
Right now we are looking like a very mediocre side, bereft of ideas. But this is pretty much the same group of players who bear City comfortably and looked like title contenders.

Preparation?

It's clearly evident we go into games against the so called "inferior" opposition totally unprepared. We have no plan, no tactics and no desire.

It was evident on Sunday and was evident against Southampton when they mauled us. Other factors come into play but the way we are setup and tactically prepared has a huge bearing on certain games IMO.

We should be setup and prepared like we were for the Barca & Man City game for the rest of the season.

We are not good enough to turn up and win against opposition in PL.

[Power n Glory]

Kallstrom, Sanogo and Elmo are all indicative of this happy families culture. Don't buy competitive threats, buy second rate cover that won't upset anyone and will be delighted to warm the bench because it's London, it's Arsenal. No headaches for anyone. No value to the team but at least everyone is smiling. In the end these guys all play anyway because we are always on the cusp of the next injury crisis. Flamini only turned up for a bit of keep fit. He must be laughing his bollocks off at how things have worked out for him. But, you know, he keeps Ozil happy so it's worth it.

As for Ox the central midfielder, well Wenger is so clever that he sees and knows stuff no ordinary fan will ever see. You really need to have made 20,000 substitutions to appreciate what the ball losing, can't pass Ox can do for us in the middle.

It's totally nuts giving him a chance to play that role. There was nothing in his game to suggest he's a tidy passer and distributor. But on the other hand, certain players that should have played as AM or CM were never given a chance.

[Niall_Quinn]

But what has be particularly done difference since the City game?
A few days later we went to Southampton and got battered, it can't have been that different a side.
I don't buy it's pressure - there was pressure on the City game, there's pressure on every game really to different degrees.
Right now we are looking like a very mediocre side, bereft of ideas. But this is pretty much the same group of players who bear City comfortably and looked like title contenders.

There are so many things he's doing wrong and I think all of them have been discussed in detail. So many things.

Take a recent example. He starts Welbeck and Walcott against Utd. Then he deploys tactics that nullify both. I'm reaching the stage where I wonder is it deliberate. How can you have Walcott up top and then (try to, because we didn't manage it) play a tight and short game in front of the opposition back four? Tip, tap, tip, tap, sideways, backwards, sloooooooow.

61% possession :trophy:

You have Walcott wandering into the centre (and giving the ball away) just to get a touch. Walcott is good at one thing. Stretching defences with his pace. So when you see him running backwards towards OUR fucking goal to take a short pass and then lay it off BACKWARDS because the defender has easily tracked him you know there's a fool in charge. That ball should go over the top of that defender every time, with Walcott breezing past using his pace. Otherwise don't have him on the pitch because he can't do anything else.

Welbeck saves the fool's arse with a last minute header against Leicester. The guy is pumped. Ready for action. Back after a long layoff. Get him in the middle, don't stick him on the wing. Welbeck is good in the air, he has good tight control, he's unpredictable. Himself and Theo wide is a potentially dangerous combo. Or if you want to play Welbeck wide then play Bif too, straight down the middle. Be ambitious. 4-3-3 against a shite Utd team, why not?

4-6-0 tip-tap-tip-tap-tip-tap-backwards-sideways-hoof-lose it-scramble-concede-tip-tap-tip-tap-sideways-backwards...

You have to account for the opposition. When you beat the gypos and then get slaughtered by Soton all it means is your repetitive, unimaginative Plan A can sometimes work but is sometimes desperately exposed. And then there's the fact Wenger has no respect for teams he considers to be beneath him. He's always been like this, criticising and blaming teams with a tenth of his resources for defending, as if it is a crime. Every compliment he pays to smaller teams is double edged. "They were very spirited in defence, 10 men behind the ball!"

[Kano]

But what has be particularly done difference since the City game?
A few days later we went to Southampton and got battered, it can't have been that different a side.
I don't buy it's pressure - there was pressure on the City game, there's pressure on every game really to different degrees.
Right now we are looking like a very mediocre side, bereft of ideas. But this is pretty much the same group of players who bear City comfortably and looked like title contenders.
Playing against City is enough to motivate the players. You really shouldn't have to say much to the players to have their heads in the right place to want to perform and bust a gut on the pitch.

We've looked mediorce since November but we've just had enough to keep ticking along in most instances but look at our form across the season and it hasn't be consistent enough to sustain a real challenge or look as good as either Leicester or Tottenham. They've both lost half the games and scored more for a reason.

Let's not forget that City have been terribly patchy this season too, so while it was a big game, we did not beat a top level City, or Man Utd for that matter. So yes the pressure has been there for these 'big' games and we've done well on occasion (also against Bayern at home) but the real contest is won against the mid-table/smaller teams. The players have to be prepared to be up for this games every week, that is where the real work of the manager is earned. Especially away from home now. The current ratio of away wins in the Prem is at the highest it has ever been and I think this applies to European leagues too.

[Power n Glory]

There are so many things he's doing wrong and I think all of them have been discussed in detail. So many things.

Take a recent example. He starts Welbeck and Walcott against Utd. Then he deploys tactics that nullify both. I'm reaching the stage where I wonder is it deliberate. How can you have Walcott up top and then (try to, because we didn't manage it) play a tight and short game in front of the opposition back four? Tip, tap, tip, tap, sideways, backwards, sloooooooow.

61% possession :trophy:

You have Walcott wandering into the centre (and giving the ball away) just to get a touch. Walcott is good at one thing. Stretching defences with his pace. So when you see him running backwards towards OUR fucking goal to take a short pass and then lay it off BACKWARDS because the defender has easily tracked him you know there's a fool in charge. That ball should go over the top of that defender every time, with Walcott breezing past using his pace. Otherwise don't have him on the pitch because he can't do anything else.

Welbeck saves the fool's arse with a last minute header against Leicester. The guy is pumped. Ready for action. Back after a long layoff. Get him in the middle, don't stick him on the wing. Welbeck is good in the air, he has good tight control, he's unpredictable. Himself and Theo wide is a potentially dangerous combo. Or if you want to play Welbeck wide then play Bif too, straight down the middle. Be ambitious. 4-3-3 against a shite Utd team, why not?

4-6-0 tip-tap-tip-tap-tip-tap-backwards-sideways-hoof-lose it-scramble-concede-tip-tap-tip-tap-sideways-backwards...

You have to account for the opposition. When you beat the gypos and then get slaughtered by Soton all it means is your repetitive, unimaginative Plan A can sometimes work but is sometimes desperately exposed. And then there's the fact Wenger has no respect for teams he considers to be beneath him. He's always been like this, criticising and blaming teams with a tenth of his resources for defending, as if it is a crime. Every compliment he pays to smaller teams is double edged. "They were very spirited in defence, 10 men behind the ball!"

Against Utd, I still don't know who was officially playing as striker. I don't think the players know either.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/959844/Live

Compare the heat maps and touches of Walcott and Welbeck you'll see it's all over the shop. I'd see Walcott central one minute then I'd see Danny there. It was some interchanging BS that had me confused and I wouldn't be surprised if the players were confused. It's gutless from Wenger because he has two wide players that play wide but both want to be striker and he's done some 'take it in turns' bullshit. It's bad coaching. Coming up with a silly compromise just like his wide striker/poacher fascination. Gives license to to play closer to the striker but neglect his duties as a winger. These players will end up like Podolski and Wiltord if they allow Wenger to fashion out such a role for their careers. Nobody will know how to use them if they ever leave Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Against Utd, I still don't know who was officially playing as striker. I don't think the players know either.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/959844/Live

Compare the heat maps and touches of Walcott and Welbeck you'll see it's all over the shop. I'd see Walcott central one minute then I'd see Danny there. It was some interchanging BS that had me confused and I wouldn't be surprised if the players were confused. It's gutless from Wenger because he has two wide players that play wide but both want to be striker and he's done some 'take it in turns' bullshit. It's bad coaching. Coming up with a silly compromise just like his wide striker/poacher fascination. Gives license to to play closer to the striker but neglect his duties as a winger. These players will end up like Podolski and Wiltord if they allow Wenger to fashion out such a role for their careers. Nobody will know how to use them if they ever leave Arsenal.

Ramsey was striker.

[Globalgunner]

Under almost any other manager currently in the EPL, this team is good enough to win this league. The problem is Wenger is dedicated solely to this stagnant turgid method of play that cannot deliver the required results irrespective of the players. Give Wenger the WC winning teams of any vintage and they wouldnt win anything following his directions. They would only win it if they completely ignored his tip tap BS.

Realistically I believe we need to make the atmosphere at the stadium unbearable for his, this and next season. Hopefully he will get the message and leave. In essence we have to wait him out, if not hound him out.

[Letters]

Realistically I believe we need to make the atmosphere at the stadium unbearable for his, this and next season. Hopefully he will get the message and leave. In essence we have to wait him out, if not hound him out.
I think we have to get behind them tomorrow. As much as I have zero faith in our ability to pick things up, we are capable of going on a run.
If we go behind tomorrow or, worse, lose then I can see things getting ugly* in the ground.


* - make up your own "why, are you going Letters?" joke.

[GP]

We should burn the place down.

[Letters]

Nah. They'd only make a profit on the insurance money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I still think what's called for is having a unrepentant sex offender who can't be allowed around women for safety reasons on the coaching staff, and if we lose or perform badly a player will be picked at random and the sex offender will be given their address and invited to pop round to see the missus when he's out.

[The Verminator]

Spurs go into Saturday's game as overwhelming favourites given their current form which stretches back to January. Spurs and Leicester are odds on to finish above us if we base current form as an indicator to who finishes where at the end of the season.

We are in a real pickle at the moment, not only are we not putting a winning run together but we're struggling in the games we are winning, we haven't won convincingly for a long time. We are seriously going to need to pull something special out of the bag to win the title this season.

You say you can see cracks appearing in all our rivals? Spurs have won what 8 games on the trot in PL, how are cracks appearing for them? Leicester's record this year is near flawless aside from their defeat to us.

The only team that is showing cracks is Arsenal, we are in a mess and the only way to get out of it is for us to win the remaining games from now on in.

I didn't write that well (was a bit drunk). I meant to say I can foresee cracks appearing, rather than seeing now.

[Letters]

I still think what's called for is having a unrepentant sex offender who can't be allowed around women for safety reasons on the coaching staff, and if we lose or perform badly a player will be picked at random and the sex offender will be given their address and invited to pop round to see the missus when he's out.

Or, worse, threaten to start letting Zim do the team talks.

[selassie]

I didn't write that well (was a bit drunk). I meant to say I can foresee cracks appearing, rather than seeing now.

No worries man, that's cool and that's your opinion. I wish I could share your optimism.

[fakeyank]

Or, worse, threaten to start letting Zim do the team talks.

Cant be worse than Wenger tbh... :coffee:

[GP]

Or, worse, threaten to start letting Zim do the team talks.

Game of two halves, hunger, desire, passion, bollocks, clichés, bottlebank.

[Letters]

Cant be worse than Wenger tbh... :coffee:

It's true. There is literally no way things could get worse than us being 3rd.

[Özim]

I think we have to get behind them tomorrow. As much as I have zero faith in our ability to pick things up, we are capable of going on a run.
If we go behind tomorrow or, worse, lose then I can see things getting ugly* in the ground.


* - make up your own "why, are you going Letters?" joke.

Tomorrows game isn't a worry, we should win that comfortably, the game against Spurs however best I can see us getting is a draw and that won't be good enough.

We've blown it IMO, this lot are a bunch of pansy bottlers.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The team talk is pretty anodyne to the way a team performs

It's about working on tactics in training and nullifying the strengths of the opposistion whilst extolling your own

Something we know just doesn't happen. Aside from beasting players I don't actually know what Wenger is doing in training.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Tomorrows game isn't a worry, we should win that comfortably, the game against Spurs however best I can see us getting is a draw and that won't be good enough.

We've blown it IMO, this lot are a bunch of pansy bottlers.

You realise we haven't beaten Swansea at home in the league since September 2011?

[Özim]

You realise we haven't beaten Swansea at home in the league since September 2011?

Yeah but they've been dogshite this season, nothing like what they were before.

[Letters]

Tomorrows game isn't a worry, we should win that comfortably, the game against Spurs however best I can see us getting is a draw and that won't be good enough.

We've blown it IMO, this lot are a bunch of pansy bottlers.

We certainly look like we're blowing it but improbably a win tomorrow would see us only 3 points off the top.
I don't have much confidence in our lot right now but we are capable of going on a run.
Who knows any more. There will be a few more twists in this title race yet.

[Marc Overmars]

Little crumbs of hope for Arsenal after the mighty Leicester City drop points.

[GP]

We certainly look like we're blowing it

We've blown it.

[Letters]

We're doing our best to. Luckily no-one else has been much good this year. Win tonight and we're 3 points off the top, ridiculously.
We don't deserve to win the league but it could yet fall into our lap if we sort our lives out.

[Gooner23]

Leicester and Spurs will drop points no doubt. But we will drop just as many if not more before the end of the season. I can't see us winning it now, too many issues in our current set up.

[selassie]

Leicester and Spurs will drop points no doubt. But we will drop just as many if not more before the end of the season. I can't see us winning it now, too many issues in our current set up.

Aye, it scares the shit out of me to think the Spuds could do it, they have the look of champions :yikes:

We've got to give it one last go starting from tonight.

[Gooner23]

I don't hold out much hope but a win on Sat might at least dent their chances a bit. :pray:

I still think City are capable of putting a title run together in their remaining games. They've done it before and certainly think they are more capable than us of doing so. The cup win might just kick them on.

[Letters]

Leicester and Spurs will drop points no doubt. But we will drop just as many if not more before the end of the season. I can't see us winning it now, too many issues in our current set up.

I can't see us winning it, but we're capable of doing so.

[IBK]

What most managers would do, if they didn't have a solution in the first team, would be to fast track a kid into the position. That person may be in-experienced, but at least it would retain the balance of the side. We have had plenty of those diminutive technical players in the u18s etc. Just bring one of them in for a few matches as short term solution....you never know, it might work out like Rashford for Utd, or Bellerin for us just recently.

But no. He simply must play what he thinks is an alternative, rather than understand what made the team tick in the first place.

That said, the Coq/Santi thing was starting to fail before either of them got injured. Teams worked it out.

Agree with your posts on this my man. There's no escaping the fact that Wenger simply doesn't have a plan. Its not even the Cazorla/Coq replacement issue - its the fact that the past few years have been a constant experiment with midfield/attacking midfield players. It truly seems as though the manager simply swaps players in and out - plays them out of and in position in the hope that he will stumble on the right solution. It worked (surprisingly) with Coq/Caz - but I don't buy that this was planned - and Coq was a fortuitous result of injury and the manager having noone else to play there. I thought that Saturday illustrated Wenger's approach perfectly. He brings on Iwobi for Welbeck (too late as usual) - and while Iwobi has not disgraced himself in his cameo's this season; this sub is clearly in hope rather than expectation - as the more sensible sub would have been Campbell - a player who has exceeded expectations this season, and scored goals. It seems that Wenger simply doesn't plan properly for like for like players to be available to replace his inevitable injuries - and his team looks currently exactly like it is - a ragtag bunch of individuals thrown together in the hope that some alchemy may occur. Its no wonder there is no composure, no certainly and little confidence in our team.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't hold out much hope but a win on Sat might at least dent their chances a bit. :pray:

I still think City are capable of putting a title run together in their remaining games. They've done it before and certainly think they are more capable than us of doing so. The cup win might just kick them on.

Come May (4th I think) we'll be playing the gypos to see who finishes 4th. At best. It'll be us of course. I can't begin to imagine what sort of excuses Wenger comes out with when that happens. In some perverse way it will be the best entertainment of the season, listening to him dodge and duck and weave hopefully for the last time.

[The Verminator]

I'm still not willing to throw in the towel just yet but what a timid, gutless, pathetic performance we have just witnessed.

If it wasn't such a reality-distorting season I would give up but as it is we are pretty much as we were thanks to Spurs, City and Leicester slipping up too...

If things continue like they have then only Leicester can truly claim to deserve it. Spurs are getting too many plaudits simply because they are in the mix and have showed some relative consistency. In any case, in this mad season I still think we can win it. If we don't win at Spurs then that would pretty much finish it off. Nobody sensible would make that bet now but in perhaps the biggest NLD of all time, anything could happen.

I would love Wenger to say if we don't win the league now he will resign. If the players can't motivate themselves, then perhaps they could do it out of the loyalty he has shown them. For all his faults as a coach, the players do seem to respect him massively. If they have any ounce of self-respect that statement would make them push as hard as they can.

EDIT: Just heard about Cech. Well, that makes it even more an impossible mission...fucking hell...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We might have a chance of winning League 2.

[selassie]

I think we'll drop out of the top 4, we're only 4 points ahead of United now and City are right behind us.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we'll drop out of the top 4, we're only 4 points ahead of United now and City are right behind us.

No chance. 4th place is ours! Guaranteed. All we need is for the gypos to string a few wins together. It's on!

[Kano]

I think we'll drop out of the top 4, we're only 4 points ahead of United now and City are right behind us.

You should've seen City tonight.

[Marc Overmars]

Forget it lads, this team is flimsy as fuck. Even if we beat Spurs they don't have the fortitude to see it through.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Spurs.

I'm going to have to emigrate at the of the season. :(

[adzzzbatch]

Forget it lads, this team is flimsy as fuck. Even if we beat Spurs they don't have the fortitude to see it through.

fuck are we beating sp*rs I know they lost tonight too, but they'll sure as hell be more up for it come Saturday lunchtime than our sorry lot.

[selassie]

You should've seen City tonight.

They'll finish above us they always do.

[Kano]

They'll finish above us they always do.

Nah, not this season. They've been even worse than us. And that's with their hero Kompany back in the side too.

With any luck West Ham or Utd will take fourth and leave Pep without a CL football.

[Ernesto]

If we beat Hull midweek (big if), is next Saturday's game v West Bromwich postponed due to the FA Cup? We should play Watford next weekend, I'm guessing.

A lot of if and buts and permutations, but if we do play in the Cup, we could be 4th and 11 points behind Leicester by next Monday :(

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That's right. However until we start winning games again you can't consider us in it anyway.

[Ernesto]

That's right. However until we start winning games again you can't consider us in it anyway.

Even the game v West Brom, a home banker in the past, seems ever so daunting.

[Marc Overmars]

4th place cup. We're back in the only race that counts tbh.

[Özim]

4th place cup. We're back in the only race that counts tbh.

We'll start playing for that, the title is long gone however, what will happen though is that we'll win a few Wenger will feel vindicated and talk about our unbeaten run at the end of the season and believe we're better than the best team on the planet, Gazidis will offer Wenger a new contract saying how lucky we are and how much belief they have and how they support Wenger 100% as he's does the best job possible for the club and the Arsenal fans that go to the stadium will forget everything that has happened before and think AW is god's gift to football. Next season, rinse and repeat. Sad but true, nothing ever changes at this club.

[Niall_Quinn]

We're not winning it this year and that was pretty easy to determine a couple of months back. When we were pubbing shitty wins but putting in dire performances it was easy to figure the randomness of it all would eventually turn against us an expose us. It was always about the performances, never about the results. All the excuses after those shit performances - good draw, that's a hard place to go to - they are our bogey team - it's the mark of a champion to win when playing shit. And so on. Yes, it's the mark of a champion to pub the odd result, but champions eventually leave the pub. We never did. A couple of times against Bayern and Utd. Even in the Utd game it was horrible to watch us slack off in that second half. The spray can was out ready to write on the wall, even during that game. In fact opening a brand new season and failing to turn up, that told us everything about Wenger and what was likely to unfold. But it's hard to say we're done on the opening day of a season - there's still such a long way to go and anything can happen.

But know this - with Wenger there is only one outcome. Poverty on the pitch and riches in the boardroom. That's his job. That's what he's here for and that's why he'll be staying despite this latest collapse.

Leicester were always winning it. You can tell when a team is in control of its own destiny. You can spot it. These are players committed to a clearly defined cause - winning. Marshalled by a manger who has one focus - winning. You can tell them they aren't good enough, you can talk about fairy tales, you can do all that but they keep their focus. No mercenaries, no prima donnas, 18 guys doing the business on the pitch being directed by one guy who knows what's important. Who even owns Leicester? We don't hear about it? It's not about them, it's about the team. Imagine that.

Leicester won't just win this - they'll walk it. I figure if we can drag ourselves out of this new Wenger low we might get 70 points. Think about how many games Leicester will have to lose for use to be anywhere near come May.

Meanwhile we better watch out for West Ham because there's another committed team behind a man who knows what he wants and what it takes to get it.

[selassie]

4th place cup. We're back in the only race that counts tbh.

Yeah we're deep in that race now with City, Utd & West Ham. We've still got to go City & West Ham for 4th place cup battles.

[AFC Leveller]

City are flaky and will drop points. They have Norwich away and then the Manc derby after that. They also go to Chelsea, Swansea and Southampton and play us at their place so there are plenty of tough games for them left. Leicester though are very dogged, i think they will win every time they play, they are full of confidence.

Top for for me will be Leicester, Spurs, City and Us.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

If Wenger overturned the first leg and ended up winning the CL and FA cup would anybody want him to stay?

[Marc Overmars]

If Wenger overturned the first leg and ended up winning the CL and FA cup would anybody want him to stay?

If he won us the CL he has my blessing to stay for as long as he wants.

[Power n Glory]

If Wenger overturned the first leg and ended up winning the CL and FA cup would anybody want him to stay?

No. Not even the treble.

[GP]

If Wenger overturned the first leg and ended up winning the CL and FA cup would anybody want him to stay?

Sure, why not?

I mean, it's not going to happen.

Heroic defeat in the final.

[Niall_Quinn]

If Wenger overturned the first leg and ended up winning the CL and FA cup would anybody want him to stay?

But that's like saying if something that can't happen because of Wenger were to happen, would you want Wenger to stay. Yes, if Wenger becomes the opposite of what he is now then I'd want him to stay. But every other manager is already the opposite of Wenger so why not just go and get one of them instead of wasting even more time waiting for Wenger to change?

[Kano]

City are flaky and will drop points. They have Norwich away and then the Manc derby after that. They also go to Chelsea, Swansea and Southampton and play us at their place so there are plenty of tough games for them left. Leicester though are very dogged, i think they will win every time they play, they are full of confidence.

Top for for me will be Leicester, Spurs, City and Us.
West Ham will tail off and Utd have two more league games against Pool to come too. 4th place trophy is safe as houses.

[Letters]

No. Not even the treble.

That is ridiculous.
Obviously it won't happen so it's a moo point.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

:d I knew you'd like that one fellas.

But seriously PG tips.....the treble?? You'd reconsider surely.....

[Power n Glory]

:d I knew you'd like that one fellas.

But seriously PG tips.....the treble?? You'd reconsider surely.....

Nope. Wouldn't that be the absolute perfect send off for Wenger? Why sour the moment with another season? If the team some how manage to conjure up some strength and find their backbone, I can only imagine it lasting for a brief period. It would be business as usual come next season. Nobody wants that. He should leave on a high.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

http://i63.tinypic.com/2houqz5.jpg

This made me smile.

[Letters]

:haha:

[Power n Glory]

http://i63.tinypic.com/2houqz5.jpg

This made me smile.

Bayern should really be in the Mercedes. :coffee:

[Globalgunner]

I especially like the Foxes analogy, off the track but winning. Their car was probably being driven by some bloke who just showed up at the track on the day of the race, while the highly paid established drivers are just running into each other on the asphalt.

[GP]

Arsenal driven by Pastor Maldonado.

[selassie]

City are flaky and will drop points. They have Norwich away and then the Manc derby after that. They also go to Chelsea, Swansea and Southampton and play us at their place so there are plenty of tough games for them left. Leicester though are very dogged, i think they will win every time they play, they are full of confidence.

Top for for me will be Leicester, Spurs, City and Us.

Yeah I think it will end up like that and in that order. Leicester are machine like, every test thrown at them and they have overcome it, even when they do lose which is very rarely they come back and go on a run again.

They are massive favorites for me now for the title, it sounds crazy but I just can't see them blowing it. I think they'll win it by more than 5 points too.

For all the scoffing I've done at them with the players they have in their team, they have a system, a system that works and is highly effective. Fair play to them, they deserve to be champions.

[Penguin]

At this point I've given up hope for ourselves. Too weak mentally, and not enough quality in either the squad or the tactics to deal with problems.

I just hope Leicester keep it up and win it now. I'm still not convinced though, they've pretty much had the same XI for the whole season so their key players might not be able to keep up their level. They've done admirably to have been so consistent so far but for the last 9 games I think the tiredness will finally show.

And they've been lucky as hell with injuries, they can't afford to lose Mahrez or Vardy because they don't have the squad to deal with it.

Come on Leicester :pray:

[hobson's choice]

On paper we have easiest schedule, other than City, Hammers, and the Everton games. Theorhetically we should be winning those games.

At this point nothing will surprise me.

[fakeyank]

No chance we will win it. To me, Leicester are favorites followed by City and Spurs. We will finish in our goal position of 4th.

[rodders]

At this moment we will do well to finish fourth

[Letters]

Not really.

And it's a myth we always finish 4th. Last 8 years we've finished 4th 4 times and 3rd 4 times.
Would be nice to finish a bit higher, granted.

[Özim]

Either way it's a fact losers finish 3rd and 4th all the time, no club that can truly be called a top club would be happy with those positions, indeed you'll find the bigger clubs always strive to win rather than come 3rd of 4th, those positions are mere consolation prizes due to the fact that you qualify for the CL and the money that brings.

You won't find Barca, Real, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, Man United, Man City etc happy coing 3rd or 4th every season, for them it's a disappointment and failure to achieve the ultimate goal.

It's the clubs attitude to coming 3rd/4th that's the problem, we see it as Wenger once said as a major trophy, not what it actually is.

[fakeyank]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35765289

An example of how the players are succeeding despite the manager. We might as well sack the dinosaur and let the players manage themselves... we are better off without someone as clueless as him.

[Letters]

we see it as Wenger once said as a major trophy
Major. Yep, that's definitely not made up.

[selassie]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35765289

An example of how the players are succeeding despite the manager. We might as well sack the dinosaur and let the players manage themselves... we are better off without someone as clueless as him.

They did the same thing before the 3-0 United game too earlier on in the season.

[Niall_Quinn]

They did the same thing before the 3-0 United game too earlier on in the season.

And the same thing before we beat the gypos a couple of seasons back. If this is genuinely making a difference they need to do it every week or else the Wengeritis will just come back.

[Özim]

Major. Yep, that's definitely not made up.

It's one of the top 3 trophies

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9633456/Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-says-qualifying-for-Champions-League-on-a-par-with-winning-a-trophy.html

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm not sure what point is trying to be made here when the FA Cup is now treated with derision on here from some now we've won it twice since that.

[Özim]

Well someLetters consider the FA Cup a major trophy, so that would make the CL spot a major trophy. I don't see it as a trophy incidentally, but Wenger does and has often demonstrated his pride in qualifying for the CL.

[Marc Overmars]

No doubt the FA Cup has lost some of it's prestige thanks to the money involved in PL and CL but I still view it as something worth winning. It's at least better than when we were known and mocked for winning sod all.

[Kano]

Arsenal fans will enjoy winning it again. Anyone enjoys picking up a trophy but the buzz of being the FA Cup champ doesn't exactly linger on in the memory. A week or two after winning the last one, we'd moved on. There is next to no prestige in winning the cup anymore for various reasons. It is the occasion of being in a showpiece event and winning the actual game that means more than anything else.

[Letters]

No doubt the FA Cup has lost some of it's prestige thanks to the money involved in PL and CL but I still view it as something worth winning. It's at least better than when we were known and mocked for winning sod all.
Of course, and it's kinda funny to see all the people doing cartwheels when we won it a couple of years ago now furiously backtracking and dismissing it now it fits their agenda. Calling top 4 a 'trophy' was unfortunate but the point he was making was obvious, and obviously true - finishing top 4 is arguably more important in the modern game than winning a domestic Cup. It shouldn't be, obviously, but the CL is all important both financially and in terms of attracting players like Sanchez and Ozil.
Back in the halcyon days of 92/93 we focussed on the cups to the detriment of the league, hence flirting with relegation that season. That is no longer an option.
But Wenger achieved both for the last 2 seasons anyway so why are people making this another stick to beat him with? There are plenty of real ones, people don't have to invent ones.

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course, and it's kinda funny to see all the people doing cartwheels when we won it a couple of years ago now furiously backtracking and dismissing it now it fits their agenda. Calling top 4 a 'trophy' was unfortunate but the point he was making was obvious, and obviously true - finishing top 4 is arguably more important in the modern game than winning a domestic Cup. It shouldn't be, obviously, but the CL is all important both financially and in terms of attracting players like Sanchez and Ozil.
Back in the halcyon days of 92/93 we focussed on the cups to the detriment of the league, hence flirting with relegation that season. That is no longer an option.
But Wenger achieved both for the last 2 seasons anyway so why are people making this another stick to beat him with? There are plenty of real ones, people don't have to invent ones.

The only invention going on here comes from you. The idea the FA Cup has to be viewed as a "major" trophy before you can enjoy winning it is one such invention. Any club would prefer to win it rather than not, but even Wenger considers it 4th in his list of priorities - 5th in fact, because profit for the owners is the unmentioned top priority.

When we won it as a first trophy in years of course that was a big deal - for the club. It didn't make the FA Cup a big deal. Winning the Cup was like breaking a bad habit, finally we hadn't choked and fallen at the final hurdle. So understand this, certainly myself and I'm, sure every Arsenal fan was delighted we won it. And it was great to win it last season too, why not? But the significance was not as great, because we'd yet again been thrashed in the league and the first cup win hadn't provided the springboard most of us hoped it would. Now we can win it again. This time we are being thrashed by Leicester. On the day we'll want to win and be happy if we do. But let's keep things in context. An FA Cup win, and we still have to win it, washes away nothing. It's a consolation prize, it means we don't finish the season empty handed. We get the leftovers, it's something. But a major trophy? Well we can really think what we like because the man in charge has already relegated it below the 4th Place Trophy.

Nobody is beating Wenger for winning cups. They are beating him for being 8 points adrift of Leicester City with 9 games to go. They are beating him for his consistency in the Last 16 League. They are beating him for not signing the players we needed to mount a challenge in the genuinely major trophies. Why are you pretending otherwise? Why are you inventing stuff?

[Letters]

FA Cup this season would feel like a consolation prize, granted, because the league was there for the taking this year and we've cocked it up royally.
What is a "major" trophy is not quantifiable but the reaction to the FA Cup was partly relief about winning a trophy after so long and partly a recognition of the FA Cup's history and status.
No-one would have been reacting like that over a league Cup win. No-one would have supported Wenger signing a new contract on the back of it.


Why are you inventing stuff?
Really? You're doing the "you know you are, you said you are" thing again? Sheesh.

[Niall_Quinn]

FA Cup this season would feel like a consolation prize, granted, because the league was there for the taking this year and we've cocked it up royally.
What is a "major" trophy is not quantifiable but the reaction to the FA Cup was partly relief about winning a trophy after so long and partly a recognition of the FA Cup's history and status.
No-one would have been reacting like that over a league Cup win. No-one would have supported Wenger signing a new contract on the back of it.


Really? You're doing the "you know you are, you said you are" thing again? Sheesh.

You're just repeating what I already said but then you spin the argument on its head by using the league cup as the comparison.

The 4th Place Trophy may well be the biggest problem we have at this club. I would like to see the FA Cup elevated back to its original status. I don't like what has happened to it, how it has been sidelined by "all about the cash" tournaments like the CL. I especially don't like it that our manager believes coming 4th is something to sing about. He should be ashamed of constantly being an also-ran but the cash coming in from the CL allows him to create and celebrate his 4th Place Trophy and many of the fans buy into it. Even the media goes on about 19 years successive 4th Place Trophy winners as if it is something to brag about. That's how far away from being winners we are and look at how many people have been convinced. What they are really doing is paying homage to the cash and fucking an historic tournament like the FA Cup out the window. This is at the root of what is wrong with football.

So while I don't want the FA Cup to be a minor trophy, all the evidence says it is. Killed by cash and Wenger's ridiculous 4th Place Trophy (in terms of our club). It's a reserve team trophy. When Hull can't be arsed to field a full strength team then we know the score. And poxy man utd started the ball rolling downhill when the cunts couldn't even be bothered to turn up, because they had cash on the table elsewhere. The glory of cash, not sport. Now they are trying to ditch replays, shunt all the games to midweek, the whole essence of the competition is long since dead and you know it because you're old enough to remember when it meant something and you can make the simple comparison. So let's stop pretending.

You say Wenger's philosophy is "unfortunate", I say it's a bloody disgrace. Anti-football, pro-money. He's one of the guys who helped kill the FA Cup. Of course in recent years it's suddenly valuable again, for the PR doctors at least.

[Kano]

No-one would have been reacting like that over a league Cup win. No-one would have supported Wenger signing a new contract on the back of it.
An easy statement to make with no way of proving it either way.

Given the intensity surround our appearance against Birmingham, it's fair to say the sense of relief of winning a cup, breaking that duck, building a platform and a 'winners mentality' would have been pretty much the same.

The buzz of winning the League Cup would have worn off in a week or so. The excitment of winning the FA Cup didn't last any longer on both occassions.

[Letters]

An easy statement to make with no way of proving it either way.
Sure, but you could say that about the majority of statements people make on here.

It's my opinion though and it's not baseless. Who cares about the League Cup? Seriously. I made a joke in BW about Liverpool not being at Wembley for ages, Tibbles replied "we're there next Sunday". Well shut my mouth :lol:. They were there for the league cup final and to be honest I had no idea who had got to the final. That does reflect my general ennui with the game I guess but while the FA Cup's prestige has certainly been dented by the CL it still has a history and tradition and following that the League Cup has never had.
The BBC had a whole day of programming for FA Cup Final day, who would do that about the league cup? They're not even vaguely comparable in terms of prestige.

I don't even think there would have been a buzz of winning a league cup. Better to win it than not if you get to the final but I don't think there would have been any open top bus parades.

[Letters]

So while I don't want the FA Cup to be a minor trophy, all the evidence says it is.
The evidence that says it isn't is how I felt when we won it.

I didn't say his philosophy is unfortunate, more the language he used. But he's right, top 4 IS probably more important than a domestic trophy. It shouldn't be, but I don't think we'd have signed Ozil or Sanchez if we'd won the FA Cup but finished mid-table.

[Niall_Quinn]

The evidence that says it isn't is how I felt when we won it.

I didn't say his philosophy is unfortunate, more the language he used. But he's right, top 4 IS probably more important than a domestic trophy. It shouldn't be, but I don't think we'd have signed Ozil or Sanchez if we'd won the FA Cup but finished mid-table.

But we might have signed Ozil and Alexis had our focus been on winning something. How many times have we been denied a real challenge because the manager won't engage in the transfer market? The 2% away thing is a running joke. If he'd have closed that 2% gap years ago, as he should have done, then what's to say we wouldn't have a couple of titles under our belt and be challenging for the signature of top players? What's to say we couldn't have increased the fan base, built the finances based on success on the pitch rather than bookkeeping in the boardroom?

You are framing everything in terms of that Top 4 Trophy, just like Wenger. He claims we couldn't have competed against the dopers. Those claims look pretty weak now, based on our clear superiority over the gypos last season (even though we shamefully chucked the last games) and the state these mercenary clubs are in this season. And the chavs last season were shite. They ground it out but don't tell me that was a good team. Could we have picked up the talent required to compete given our budget? Ask Leicester. Wenger's transfer policies have been appalling for years, reactive instead of proactive. He's played it cautiously, he admits as much with all his shite about self sustenance and fair play and all the other bullshit that's completely ignored by the teams that have gone full pelt, whatever it takes. Ferguson won the thing with the shittiest team he's ever had. It could be done and it can be done. Wenger never put in the required effort. He played it safe, delivered to the guys upstairs and was negligent elsewhere. He's been the problem all along.

[IBK]

It's one of the top 3 trophies

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9633456/Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-says-qualifying-for-Champions-League-on-a-par-with-winning-a-trophy.html

TBF, in this respect, I can see what AW is getting at. There is an element of good fortune in winning any Cup, whereas CL qualification requires consistency throughout a season - 4th place consistency granted, but nevertheless performance over a season. Second, in terms of player recruitment - a CL place pisses all over an FA Cup win. Third in terms of a club's prestige and financial security there is no comparison. Sure - for football fans, silverware undoubtedly is more important - particularly if like us you are perennial also-rans in the CL - and Wenger's comments rankle somewhat because as usual the aspirations of us fans appear to be low on the manager's agenda, and as MTG points out its rather hypocritical to object to Wenger's position while at the same time downplaying the FA Cups that we have won. But there's nothing particularly contraversial in what Wenger is suggesting...

[Letters]

Stop sucking Wenger's cock :sulk:



It's obvious what he's getting at, it's obvious he's right. Top 4 shouldn't be a 'thing' but it is, and the fact it is is nothing to do with him.

[Niall_Quinn]

4th place consistency

A definition of failure.

[Niall_Quinn]

Stop sucking Wenger's cock :sulk:



It's obvious what he's getting at, it's obvious he's right. Top 4 shouldn't be a 'thing' but it is, and the fact it is is nothing to do with him.

You posted an article in another thread, the Telegraph bloke going on about revolution and not accepting things because, "That's just the way it has to be." Did you read the article?

[Letters]

Yes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes.

So this is a simple case of lack of comprehension.

[Letters]

No.

[Niall_Quinn]

That was a statement, not a question.

[Letters]

Oh.

[Globalgunner]

Wengers statement that , "If he wasnt doing a good job, someone at the club would have told him so" is a disingenuous as they come ans smacks of the arrogance of a man who knows he has the club and fans over a barrel. I doubt that Ivan even has any authority over him and those yokels masquerading as the "board" even less. It shows how disfunctional this club has become since Dein left. We can really put all our troubles down to the boardroom ego war that precipitated DD leaving and selling his shares.

It may take a while to put this club back on to a sporting rather than purely financial emphasis.

[IBK]

Wengers statement that , "If he wasnt doing a good job, someone at the club would have told him so" is a disingenuous as they come ans smacks of the arrogance of a man who knows he has the club and fans over a barrel. I doubt that Ivan even has any authority over him and those yokels masquerading as the "board" even less. It shows how disfunctional this club has become since Dein left. We can really put all our troubles down to the boardroom ego war that precipitated DD leaving and selling his shares.

It may take a while to put this club back on to a sporting rather than purely financial emphasis.

Yup - and I agree Wenger's comment is disingenuous as it ignores the fact that he has built a personal fiefdom where there IS noone at the club who will even dare to question what he does.

[selassie]

Wengers statement that , "If he wasnt doing a good job, someone at the club would have told him so" is a disingenuous as they come ans smacks of the arrogance of a man who knows he has the club and fans over a barrel. I doubt that Ivan even has any authority over him and those yokels masquerading as the "board" even less. It shows how disfunctional this club has become since Dein left. We can really put all our troubles down to the boardroom ego war that precipitated DD leaving and selling his shares.

It may take a while to put this club back on to a sporting rather than purely financial emphasis.

Wenger is a dictator, he has complete control and is pretty much beyond reproach. He won't change because he can't and doesn't think he's doing anything wrong given his reaction over the past few weeks in his press conferences.

It's really sad how this is all unfolding and IMO he is well on the way to undoing all the great work he has done at the club.

[Chippy]

I think this is a good time for a recount.
It's so hard to call this year.

Leicester - well, improbably they're still there and they've got the best run-in, I think. But do they have the legs for it and will they cope with the pressure of suddenly almost being favourites? And what has last Sunday done to them psychologically?

Spurs - No, just...no. :sulk:. They don't have a great run in but they are the form team right now. Being in the cup competitions could harm them though as they don't have that great a squad. They've got a chance but I still reckon they'll have a nosebleed at some point.

Arsenal - Well, in theory I think we've got the best squad (better than Leicester and Spurs, certainly) and we've got players who have been there and done it at the business end of the season. We're getting our best players back from injury now - Sanchez, Ozil...Welbeck :d. But you can never really trust us and we have some tough away games. If last Sunday doesn't push us on then nothing will.

City - Should be favourites but they're a squad of mercenaries and Pep in the summer may put them into holiday mode till he arrives. They've got the ability but maybe not the mentality for this season.


Sod it, I'm going to say us. Very hard to call though.
Got my Leicester shirt on tonight!! Two horse race, come on you Foxes!!

[Bumble]

maybe we should have a new poll to see if the remaining 8 optimists have changed their minds.

[selassie]

We'll be changing this thread title to will we finish in the top 4 after our loss at Everton on Saturday.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger's latest wisdom:


'I built the club, and the way I did it was with hard work,' said Wenger. 'I had no external resources. If you compare the club when I arrived and how it is today it has moved forward, and without any help from anybody.'

Good to know. Adams, Bergkamp, Henry, Dein, the tea lady, fucking useless the lot of them. Arsene had to do it all himself.

[Letters]

As you keep saying, Wenger is the one constant.
It's time for him to move on and of course he didn't do it all by himself but we are where we are today (which is in nowhere near as bad shape as some make out) largely because of Wenger.

[Niall_Quinn]

And I always though Woy was cut from the same cloth as Arsene. Here's his take on the unwashed fans.


‘I don’t want to become too philosophical, but it does bother me that every pub philosopher is [now] a world wide philosopher as he has two important medium in front of him,’ the England manager said at the LMA president’s dinner on Monday night.

‘[They were] going down the pub and bothering a few people around them. Now he goes on Twitter, on social media, on phone-ins and suddenly his thoughts get taken up by more important elements of the mass media.’

I have to agree. It's one thing for the fans to stump up their £60, but something entirely different if when assume they have a right to comment. Everyone knows football is too complicated for fans to understand. At Arsenal they see the club 11 points behind Leicester City and their pub mentality will simplify things down to basic notions like the manager or the team is not good enough. They'll say things like, we have less points than Leicester therefore Leicester are doing better than us. It must be nice to live in such a simple world.

[Niall_Quinn]

As you keep saying, Wenger is the one constant.
It's time for him to move on and of course he didn't do it all by himself but we are where we are today (which is in nowhere near as bad shape as some make out) largely because of Wenger.

Depends on how you look at things. Are we getting relegated like Villa? Far from it. Are we owned by an absolute cunt who has no intention of taking this club forward to do what it is supposed to do, compete for titles? Absolutely. Everything is relative and I;d say we are relatively fucked for the foreseeable future.

[Letters]

IMO a top striker and we'd have walked the league this season. I don't think we're in that bad shape.

[selassie]

IMO a top striker and we'd have walked the league this season. I don't think we're in that bad shape.

Problem is we've been saying this kind of stuff for the past what 3 or 4 seasons and we'll be saying this kind of stuff for the next x amount of seasons with Wenger in charge.

He leaves the squad short by design, it's how he operates.

[IBK]

Problem is we've been saying this kind of stuff for the past what 3 or 4 seasons and we'll be saying this kind of stuff for the next x amount of seasons with Wenger in charge.

He leaves the squad short by design, it's how he operates.

Bang on, Sir!

[Letters]

Problem is we've been saying this kind of stuff for the past what 3 or 4 seasons and we'll be saying this kind of stuff for the next x amount of seasons with Wenger in charge.

He leaves the squad short by design, it's how he operates.

By design? Why?

Edit: Oh, and I don't think I've been saying that for the past 3 or 4 seasons.

[Niall_Quinn]

IMO a top striker and we'd have walked the league this season. I don't think we're in that bad shape.

And because we are owned by an absolute cunt who has no intention of taking the club forward, and managed by a guy who appears to be more focused on filling the owner's pocket rather than doing what is necessary to win - we are short a top striker and so haven't walked the league this year.

You're right. A striker who could have converted just a few more of those chances Ozil keeps serving up with all the garnish would see us on any more points, possibly top of the league and maybe on course for a title. Our failure to convert those many chances and our failure to be hot on the heels of the title favourites sure made their job a lot easier.

The money is in the bank instead of on the pitch. There doesn't seem to be much prospect of this changing. The club have jumped in early to manage down expectations for the coming summer window. Our "war chest" (or war thimble by comparison to our major rivals) has already been pegged back. The focus remains on what is prudent and sensible and conducive to growth. Growth for what? I think we know.

The very fact the club will not invest to win at least suggests we are in dire shape. If you aren't in football to win it then you are nowhere.

[Niall_Quinn]

By design? Why?

Edit: Oh, and I don't think I've been saying that for the past 3 or 4 seasons.

Plenty of other people have been saying it. "Giroud is not good enough to win us titles", has become an anthem. And, believe it or not, Sanogo isn't good enough either, or Chamakh. Just look at the strikers we've tried to compete with over the last few seasons. It's a joke, or a farce as Wenger likes to say every time his negligence is highlighted.

[Power n Glory]

By design? Why?

Edit: Oh, and I don't think I've been saying that for the past 3 or 4 seasons.

It's by design. That much should be obvious.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/593995/Arsenal-Arsene-Wenger-Karim-Benzema-strikers


"At the moment our squad is well-balanced quality-wise and numbers-wise.

"When you win the FA Cup final scoring four goals and score six today, it shows scoring goals is not our problem."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/5769592/Arsene-Wenger-it-not-looking-for-another-striker.html


Wenger said: “Up front, we don’t need any more.

“We need a keeper and then it depends how our midfielders get through without injuries until the season. Maybe at centre-back we’ll bring one in.”

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsene-wenger-arsenal-have-four-worldclass-strikers-a3144736.html


"Giroud has the *confidence. I have said that many times. He has the mental stature to play in this position.

"We had Giroud, but we also had Theo Walcott who I believe is a world-class striker, we had Alexis Sanchez who is a world-class striker, and we had Danny Welbeck who is a world-class striker.

"You have to spend a huge amount of money to improve on that four."

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/arsene-wenger-we-dont-need-karim-benzema-weve-got-olivier-giroud_sto5024042/story.shtml

On Giroud.

"He's not only a goalscorer, he's a guy who puts work in for the team. I think he's among the best strikers in Europe.

[Letters]

The very fact the club will not invest to win at least suggests we are in dire shape. If you aren't in football to win it then you are nowhere.

I don't think our squad is in dire shape though. I agree about our ownership. Replacing Wenger will solve some problems but not all of them.
And yes, Giroud isn't good enough to win us a title. The hope this year is that Sanchez and Ozil would chip in. Ramsey would find his shooting boots and Walcott would get fit and some consistency.
Alas it was not to be.
But 'by design' implies Wenger deliberately leaves us short and with no chance of the title, I can't see any reason why he'd do that.

[selassie]

By design? Why?

Edit: Oh, and I don't think I've been saying that for the past 3 or 4 seasons.

Meaning that he always thinks the squad is strong enough when everybody else and I mean pretty much everybody else is telling him otherwise.

It's a recurring theme, the squad hasn't been strong enough for years yet he keeps on selling us this dream that it is.

[Letters]

It's by design. That much should be obvious.
If 'by design' you mean he thinks we should be good enough then maybe that's so (and maybe he's right, when we lose to teams like Watford and Swansea it's not because our players aren't good enough).
I thought was the implication was he knows we're not good enough but deliberately doesn't try and address that. I'm not sure why he'd do that.
He might not be able to, he might have too much confidence in the players, but I doubt he's deliberately leaving us short because he hates us all or something!

[Letters]

Meaning that he always thinks the squad is strong enough when everybody else and I mean pretty much everybody else is telling him otherwise.

It's a recurring theme, the squad hasn't been strong enough for years yet he keeps on selling us this dream that it is.

Fair enough :good:

[selassie]

I don't think our squad is in dire shape though. I agree about our ownership. Replacing Wenger will solve some problems but not all of them.
And yes, Giroud isn't good enough to win us a title. The hope this year is that Sanchez and Ozil would chip in. Ramsey would find his shooting boots and Walcott would get fit and some consistency.
Alas it was not to be.
But 'by design' implies Wenger deliberately leaves us short and with no chance of the title, I can't see any reason why he'd do that.

Everybody knows that Giroud isn't good enough for a title winning side, the solution, buy someone who is good enough.

The money is there now Letters, Wenger had no excuses last summer, he was the only Manager of any top 4 club in Europe to not buy an outfield player, just think about it and tell me that it is acceptable?

We shouldn't be relying on if's and but's if we have the resources to improve the team, it's absolutely ridiculous!

Maybe my choice of word wasn't correct but my definition of 'by design' is that he leaves the squad the way it is because he believes in his options.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think our squad is in dire shape though. I agree about our ownership. Replacing Wenger will solve some problems but not all of them.
And yes, Giroud isn't good enough to win us a title. The hope this year is that Sanchez and Ozil would chip in. Ramsey would find his shooting boots and Walcott would get fit and some consistency.
Alas it was not to be.
But 'by design' implies Wenger deliberately leaves us short and with no chance of the title, I can't see any reason why he'd do that.

Mentally the squad is rock bottom. Technically I'd agree, we are close to having a very good collection of players from which to build a team. It's that "building a team" bit we are a million miles away from. A new manager will be able to do a lot fairly quickly, focus on the basics, start building a team from the decent components we have, further building on that to improve the mentality. The comes the potential brick wall. A new manager will have his own ideas and vision for the types of player he'll want to move that team and squad on.

Wenger is very deliberate about his non-action in the transfer windows. It stems from his delusions. He sees mediocre players as having the potential to become world beaters in a short space of time. Nobody else sees it. When the inevitable unfolds and we are left with a mediocre player who has not delivered, Wenger still doesn't see it. His actions are deliberate, not to try to harm the team but because he is delusional and ultimately incompetent.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I don't think our squad is in dire shape though. I agree about our ownership. Replacing Wenger will solve some problems but not all of them.
And yes, Giroud isn't good enough to win us a title. The hope this year is that Sanchez and Ozil would chip in. Ramsey would find his shooting boots and Walcott would get fit and some consistency.
Alas it was not to be.
But 'by design' implies Wenger deliberately leaves us short and with no chance of the title, I can't see any reason why he'd do that.
I have to agree. We do actually have a pretty decent squad, and with a manager who knows what he is doing and knows how best to utilise the players would see them performing much better than they currently are.

Get them toughened up, quicker and stop the slow turgid shit, chuck in Ibra or Cavani or such like - would see us winning the league at a canter this season.

[Letters]

Everybody knows that Giroud isn't good enough for a title winning side, the solution, buy someone who is good enough.

The money is there now Letters, Wenger had no excuses last summer, he was the only Manager of any top 4 club in Europe to not buy an outfield player, just think about it and tell me that it is acceptable?

Well, given how the season is turning out...no, it isn't acceptable. That's why I'm now in the Wenger Out camp. I still think it was reasonable to have some hope and see how the season turned out but I agree, the money is there, he's used some of it - Ozil, Sanchez and Cech were good signings - but we don't have enough up front, it's cost us a chance of the title and that's why he should go.
That doesn't mean everything he did in the years before the new financial deals was an abject failure, but he should now be judged by different standards and while the FA Cups were nice we needed to push on and we haven't.

[Power n Glory]

If 'by design' you mean he thinks we should be good enough then maybe that's so (and maybe he's right, when we lose to teams like Watford and Swansea it's not because our players aren't good enough).
I thought was the implication was he knows we're not good enough but deliberately doesn't try and address that. I'm not sure why he'd do that.
He might not be able to, he might have too much confidence in the players, but I doubt he's deliberately leaving us short because he hates us all or something!

It's not might, he does and he has no reason to. How many seasons does it take? It goes back to what Selassie originally said.

[selassie]

Well, given how the season is turning out...no, it isn't acceptable. That's why I'm now in the Wenger Out camp. I still think it was reasonable to have some hope and see how the season turned out but I agree, the money is there, he's used some of it - Ozil, Sanchez and Cech were good signings - but we don't have enough up front, it's cost us a chance of the title and that's why he should go.
That doesn't mean everything he did in the years before the new financial deals was an abject failure, but he should now be judged by different standards and while the FA Cups were nice we needed to push on and we haven't.

It may not have been abject failure but it was poor squad management. For me it goes beyond him being judged on winning the league or whatever, if he at least appeared to be ambitious I think he would have a lot more backing, leaving us short just leaves him exposed to the backlash of fan uproar he is getting now.

[Power n Glory]

It may not have been abject failure but it was poor squad management. For me it goes beyond him being judged on winning the league or whatever, if he at least appeared to be ambitious I think he would have a lot more backing, leaving us short just leaves him exposed to the backlash of fan uproar he is getting now.

:gp: Going into the season depending on Giroud again was just stupid. If he wasn't going to sign anyone new we should have least made a commitment to keep playing Walcott up front or Sanchez. Play a different sort of striker up top instead of a target man because we already know the limitations when playing with Giroud. He had a very good run in the squad but when the goals started to dry up he should have been swapped out immediately because we've already seen what he's like when in a funk.

[fakeyank]

I still do not understand why we cannot play two upfront. While I do not rate Theo much, I think both him and Giroud will greatly help each other playing up front. I do not understand statements that say that 4-3-3/4-5-1 is the only playing system because 'thats what every team does' or that 'teams will just crowd the midfield'. If crowding the midfield can nullify good co-ordination and understanding of the opposition, many teams would successfully employ it. I am not saying that we only focus on a 4-4-2. Learn to play according to the situation. If we are at home playing a lesser team, put some runners on the wings and two strikers attacking the ball. Its just baffling how we are so absolutely clueless in games which do not go our way.

This is one of the most important reasons I have wanted Wenger gone since 2009. I hear people constantly talk about how he doesnt spend money and how finances were tight etc etc. Our squad this season, our squad in 07/08 and our squad 2 seasons back were well placed to challenge for the title. What didnt happen every single time is mental preparation for the opposition and proper tactics. We were always second best (or should I say 4th best) in terms of preparation for the big games. Players rarely seemed motivated for some games and it seemed more like a training session rather than a game we needed 3 points. I am sorry to say that throwing money at a problem like this has never helped nor will it ever help. I have said this before and I'll say it for the hundredth time again... you give Wenger Messi and Ronaldo in their prime, and he'll find a way to fuck it up. The problem is very simple and that problem is Wenger.

[Letters]

Saying something 100 times doesn't make it true. We had Bergkamp and Henry in their prime and a strong captain and we won titles.
Wenger has never been a great motivator, he needs a strong captain to help him and we haven't had one since Vieira.

[fakeyank]

Saying something 100 times doesn't make it true. We had Bergkamp and Henry in their prime and a strong captain and we won titles.
Wenger has never been a great motivator, he needs a strong captain to help him and we haven't had one since Vieira.

It doesnt make it untrue either. We have Ozil and Sanchez in their primes but we are still losing the title to Leicester city and Spurs. :haha:

I agree about the strong captain part 100%. Since Wenger cannot motivate his own wife to undress on their first night, a strong captain would have made a world of difference. But then again, why would the emperor want someone who may stand up against him? As soon as he got Vieira and other senior players out of the door, he molded the players into a bunch of mentally weak pricks. Any sign of pressure and you are sure that they will find new innovative ways to fail. Spitting image of the manager in the last decade tbh..

[Niall_Quinn]

Good job Spitting Image isn't still on TV or Wenger would be crucified. So much material there they could have got away with just the one puppet. Wenger vs the Sun pig reporters, that would have been hilarious.

Bring it back!

[Letters]

No, it doesn't make it untrue :lol:
But it is untrue. We need more up front, we need a good captain. Those things and we'd have won the title this year IMO, Wenger or no.
I think there's more to it than pressure. We've won plenty of pressure games, we now seem to be in a collective malaise and have no idea how to drag ourselves out of it - I think that comes back to the lack of a good captain.


Since Wenger cannot motivate his own wife to undress on their first night
:haha:

[Letters]

Good job Spitting Image isn't still on TV or Wenger would be crucified. So much material there they could have got away with just the one puppet. Wenger vs the Sun pig reporters, that would have been hilarious.

Bring it back!

:lol: That would be pretty awlsome, tbf.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, it doesn't make it untrue :lol:
But it is untrue. We need more up front, we need a good captain. Those things and we'd have won the title this year IMO, Wenger or no.
I think there's more to it than pressure. We've won plenty of pressure games, we now seem to be in a collective malaise and have no idea how to drag ourselves out of it - I think that comes back to the lack of a good captain.


:haha:

Lack of a good captain? Do you mean lack of somebody who can do Wenger's job for him? But it's just another symptom of Wengeritis. Reduce the captaincy to a bribe thrown at players who never stay anyway. Piss in Giberto's face when it is his turn to be the captain. Wenger has got so many things wrong. The captaincy, the lack of a striking threat, these are just two on a long list.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RklubaPg8

[Letters]

Lack of a good captain? Do you mean lack of somebody who can do Wenger's job for him? But it's just another symptom of Wengeritis. Reduce the captaincy to a bribe thrown at players who never stay anyway. Piss in Giberto's face when it is his turn to be the captain. Wenger has got so many things wrong. The captaincy, the lack of a striking threat, these are just two on a long list.

Wenger's job is to get results. It isn't cheating if we have a strong captain that helps him achieve that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger's job is to get results. It isn't cheating if we have a strong captain that helps him achieve that.

Phone Wenget and tell him. But be careful not to threaten to end the call early or you might end up with the armband yourself.

[Letters]

He already called me about it.


He reversed the charges <_<

[adzzzbatch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RklubaPg8

"not a pot noodle" :lol:

"little bit" :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

He already called me about it.


He reversed the charges <_<

And called at 4am on the cheap rate electric tariff.

[selassie]

And called at 4am on the cheap rate electric tariff.

:lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think we need a new poll.

Now that we are out of all the cups we are able to put all our energy in to fucking up the league.

[Marc Overmars]

We're still in the only cup that matters.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we need a new poll.

Now that we are out of all the cups we are able to put all our energy in to fucking up the league.

Can't we just copy/ paste the polls from the last 9 seasons? Mods?

[GP]

We're still in the only cup that matters.

2girls1cup?

[AFC Leveller]

Spuds will NOT win it IMO because their run in is by far the toughest out of the 4 teams.

They have Liverpool away, Man u home and then Stoke away. After that its West brom at home before they go to Chelsea and play saints at home. It is far from straight forward and their final game is against newcastle who are in a relegation battle.

Id love us to win it ovb but it looks like it's Leciester's to lose.

[Chippy]

Spuds will NOT win it IMO because their run in is by far the toughest out of the 4 teams.

They have Liverpool away, Man u home and then Stoke away. After that its West brom at home before they go to Chelsea and play saints at home. It is far from straight forward and their final game is against newcastle who are in a relegation battle.

Id love us to win it ovb but it looks like it's Leciester's to lose.

The scum look fucking good at the moment, Leicester are scraping wins. Hate to say it, the shit scum will win it. :(

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nah, we've got no chance.

[selassie]

Spuds will NOT win it IMO because their run in is by far the toughest out of the 4 teams.

They have Liverpool away, Man u home and then Stoke away. After that its West brom at home before they go to Chelsea and play saints at home. It is far from straight forward and their final game is against newcastle who are in a relegation battle.

Id love us to win it ovb but it looks like it's Leciester's to lose.

Hate to say this but on current form I can see the Spuds beating Man U and Stoke and picking up a point at Liverpool, they are capable of winning all 3. I think they'll win at Chelsea too. They won't be dropping many points between now and the end of the season, Poch has that team and system on lock, they are not pushovers anymore, they are hard to break down and very good going forward. I think for us to finish above them we will need to win every game and notch up our goal difference.

Honestly, it's between Leicester and them, we blew the title a few weeks back losing to Man U and Swansea, that was our last chance saloon and we threw it away.

Leicester are picking up points but are starting to wobble a bit performance wise, Palace should have got at least a point yesterday, they missed a lot of chances. I suppose Leicester are doing what Champions do, grinding out results at the business end of the season.

I think unless both of the them collapse which is looking very unlikely then we're finishing 3rd at best. We've got to remember that both teams have been very consistent this season, they very rarely lose. What is it? Leicester have lost 3 times and the Spuds 4 times? The Spuds have only lost once this year in PL.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

No way Spurs will win it.

[Marc Overmars]

Leicester have it in the bag. They've already had their wobble but they came through it even stronger. They're on auto pilot and it will come down to bottle now as they're expected to win it.

Spuds won't win enough of their acid tests to overhaul them.

We need to win every game to even have a sniff. Not going to happen.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

There is the goals of the phantom of the opera Kane who has now scored 21 league goals in their favour though. I was quite vocal (to even my own dismay) in stating he wasn't just a flash in the pan or one season wonder last season....... and so it has proved.

We shouldn't forget there are 7 games left so the simpleton could get 25 by then...

[Marc Overmars]

There is the goals of the phantom of the opera Kane who has now scored 21 league goals in their favour though. I was quite vocal (to even my own dismay) in stating he wasn't just a flash in the pan or one season wonder last season....... and so it has proved.

We shouldn't forget there are 7 games left so the simpleton could get 25 by then...

Wishful thinking I guess. He's very good, unfortunately. To think he didn't score for the first 6 or 7 games as well.

RVC was the last to score 20 league goals for us and then Adebayor before him. Kind of shows what we've missing for so many years now.

[selassie]

Wishful thinking I guess. He's very good, unfortunately. To think he didn't score for the first 6 or 7 games as well.

RVC was the last to score 20 league goals for us and then Adebayor before him. Kind of shows what we've missing for so many years now.

I had my doubts about Kane but he's the real deal, he's no flash in the pan.

[Letters]

Spurs could win it but Leicester would really have to throw it away now with their run in. Especially as Spurs have a more tricky one.

[Gooner23]

For the neutral Leicester winning it would be a magnificent sporting against the odds story.

As an Arsenal fan though it is becoming more and more painful to watch as that realisation they will likely win it now kicks in. And the other scenario if they were to falter doesn't bear thinking about. I don't care if it smacks of small time thinking but we HAVE to finish above the Spuds.

[Niall_Quinn]

For the neutral Leicester winning it would be a magnificent sporting against the odds story.

As an Arsenal fan though it is becoming more and more painful to watch as that realisation they will likely win it now kicks in. And the other scenario if they were to falter doesn't bear thinking about. I don't care if it smacks of small time thinking but we HAVE to finish above the Spuds.

It smacks of trying to hold the red line, the one standard we should never drop below. The easiest title in years is gone. The cups are gone. Apart from the odd occasion, like the first half yesterday, our football has gone. What do we have left? Finishing above the spuds. Lose that and we have lost everything bar that coveted 4th place trophy a lot of the fans have come to loathe because of what it represents - second best status. And that's not assured. Another collapse of the type already witnessed and we lose that too. Another dismal crash when we next encounter pressure and the Last 16 Cup could be gone in a clean sweep of failure. It's not so much the urgency of finishing above the spuds, that will be the end product of winning our last 8 games which is what we need to do to grab a bit of pride back from this foul season.

[The Wengerbabies]

I really hope Leicester do it. Their season has been phenomenal.

I would have been pulling for them sooner had this not been the season where we should have won it comfortably but we are a joke. A big fat mess.

[Dicks and chicks]

I really hope Leicester do it. Their season has been phenomenal.

I would have been pulling for them sooner had this not been the season where we should have won it comfortably but we are a joke. A big fat mess.
Still not a bigger mess than man city man united or chelsea

[The Wengerbabies]

Still not a bigger mess than man city man united or chelsea

We're far worse.

For City/Chelsea this has been a mere blip and we should have capitalized on it.

We have been fucked for a decade now. There are absolutely no excuses for not winning this year.

[fakeyank]

Still not a bigger mess than man city man united or chelsea

Yup, we are much better off compared to those 3. They only have all the PL titles since we won in 2004 and 2 champions league between them.

We have 2 FA Cups and many 4th place trophies.

[Niall_Quinn]

Still not a bigger mess than man city man united or chelsea

They will correct their problems swiftly and decisively - well maybe not Utd but the other two will. We have Wenger and Kroenke.

[Letters]

Yup, we are much better off compared to those 3. They only have all the PL titles since we won in 2004 and 2 champions league between them.

We have 2 FA Cups and many 4th place trophies.

Why use that timeframe? Surely what is most relevant is what's going on now. Over the last couple of seasons I guess you could say City and Chelsea have done better having won a title each, no-one else has. But yeah, Wenger's an idiot who hasn't got a clue what he's doing :blah:

[Özim]

Yup, we are much better off compared to those 3. They only have all the PL titles since we won in 2004 and 2 champions league between them.

We have 2 FA Cups and many 4th place trophies.

We've also qualified for the CL for 50 years in a row and won it....er nevermind

[Niall_Quinn]

We've also qualified for the CL for 50 years in a row and won it....er nevermind

The Last 16 Cup is a major trophy.

[Özim]

Why use that timeframe? Surely what is most relevant is what's going on now. Over the last couple of seasons I guess you could say City and Chelsea have done better having won a title each, no-one else has. But yeah, Wenger's an idiot who hasn't got a clue what he's doing :blah:

In that time, they've grown as clubs, become more marketable and have developed a bigger fan base Internationally, yes they've had one bad season but overall they've got some major success under their belt.

As for the last bit, can't disagree with any of that :run:

[Özim]

The Last 16 Cup is a major trophy.

We're spoilt really, we should thank our lucky stars we're so successful and that we have a saint who is superior in knowledge to every else on the planet due to his 20,000 substitutions as manager.

[Letters]

In that time, they've grown as clubs, become more marketable and have developed a bigger fan base Internationally, yes they've had one bad season but overall they've got some major success under their belt.
Sure. All by spending shitloads of money in an era when we couldn't.
Now we're more able to compete with them financially we've started winning trophies again and this year it looks like we'll finish above all of those sides.
Still below Leicester though :doh: and it seems Wenger isn't able to push us on any further but the last 10 years have not been the unmitigated failure you make out. There was a period of belt tightening during which IMO Wenger did pretty well to keep us in the top 4. The money is there now so we need to push on, we have to an extent in terms of the trophies and the level of players we've signed but this season was the one when we really needed to push on and we haven't. So Wenger should step aside. That doesn't make everything he's done over the last 10 years wrong.

[Özim]

Sure. All by spending shitloads of money in an era when we couldn't.
Now we're more able to compete with them financially we've started winning trophies again and this year it looks like we'll finish above all of those sides.
Still below Leicester though :doh: and it seems Wenger isn't able to push us on any further but the last 10 years have not been the unmitigated failure you make out. There was a period of belt tightening during which IMO Wenger did pretty well to keep us in the top 4. The money is there now so we need to push on, we have to an extent in terms of the trophies and the level of players we've signed but this season was the one when we really needed to push on and we haven't. So Wenger should step aside. That doesn't make everything he's done over the last 10 years wrong.

The reason Wenger gets so much grief now is the way he behaves, let's be honest, he's patronising, incredibly stubborn, always blaming other factors and never really taking responsibility of willing to criticise his team.

He also point blank refuses to acknowledge problems that have been there for a long time, he's his own worst enemy.

He could make it so much easier for himself is he was more humble, it seems to me he's become more and more arrogant over the years, some of the stuff he comes out with is just unacceptable and really shows he doesn't have any respect for the people who actually page his wages (the fans).

Arrogance of that level from someone who isn't who's has so little success in the last 10 years is hard to understand and hard to swallow, but I guess he feels his job is so secure and the board and owners are so keen to praise him that he clearly feels that's he's a massive success.

[Dicks and chicks]

They will correct their problems swiftly and decisively - well maybe not Utd but the other two will. We have Wenger and Kroenke.

Pep will struggle here mark my words. the small teams will be too strong for him, chelsea have lost their team mentality, they worked too hard to achieve things in the short term, they dont have the togetherness thats required.

[fakeyank]

but the last 10 years have not been the unmitigated failure you make out.

Depends on what your expectation is really. If a club of Arsenals size cannot even muster a title challenge beyond the month of February for 10 years running, that is an unmitigated failure. The lesser I talk about our CL shenanigans, the better.. that'll just make my point stronger.

Let me ask you this... have you even once in the last decade felt that we are putting our best foot forward in almost all the games throughout the season? Many, if not most of the fans could see a mile away that we are almost handicapped right at the beginning of the season. Adequate cover for players in suspect positions were never developed or purchased. Every season we would go in depending on injury prone players (Diaby, Rosicky), playing players out of position and being tactically childish.

It is a vicious cycle with our manager. 2 years ago when we were leading the table at the top in February, there were a few on here who said that we will fold and die when we hit a tough run of games. Ditto for what happened this season. Where do you think 'these people' on here have their wisdom from? It is because Wenger tries the same nonsense EVERY season and expects different results. At least if he tried something and failed, I'd acknowledge his efforts but he hasnt done it in 10 years and he wont do it if he is here another 10 years.

So yes, he is a failure in terms of what we could have and should have achieved. Has he completely ruined the club? No, I think with whatever nonsense he has pulled off in the last decade, we are still one decent manager away from being a strong team in England (and possibly Europe) and that is the only thing that makes me sleep at night well. However the concern that almost everyone shares on here right now is that if he continues any longer, he is going to actually damage the club.

[Letters]

If that is your expectation then that comes almost entirely from Wenger's era. If you look back historically before that we were never consistent title challengers, the title in '89 was the first since '71 which was the first since 1953. Between '53 and '70 there were no trophies at all.

We won 2 titles in 3 years in the Graham era but that was the exception and didn't look like being repeated any time soon till Wenger came along. Read Fever Pitch if you want to know what being an Arsenal fan was mostly like in the 70s and 80s

Could Wenger have done better in the last 10 years? Of course. But in an era of billionaires buying up titles left right and centre right at a time when the stadium move and financial deals hampered us somewhat, he could have done a lot worse. I firmly believe - although we'll never know of course - had the billionaires not muscled in we'd have won another couple of titles under him. There have been a couple of years when the only teams finishing above us were those fueled by billionaires, clubs who never used to trouble us.

As for the state of the club if he stays much longer, people have been saying for years that he'll take us into mid-table but he never has. He is if nothing else a safe pair of hands. I don't think he's able to push us on any more so I agree he should go, but I don't think he deserves the level of abuse he gets - not just in the heat of the moment. I do agree with some of Zim's comments though that he doesn't help himself by the way he speaks sometimes.

[Alpha]

Who Will win the league ? It is still wide open for me . Leicester are big favorite as they are leading the lot with a 5 point cushion . With 8 games remaining and some tough fixtures coming up ,are they going to be unbeaten till the end? Possibly but I doubt it . They will falter somewhere with pressure .
Tottenham, second favorites due to their position . Are they going to resist the pressure of being just 3 points above Arsenal ? They have never been in this position and went all the way to beat Arsenal in the league position. But they look quite good but pression and some tricky fixtures will tell us more about thier title credentials . Arsenal , third favorites after blowing up their chances . Normally the Gunners always finish on a high . But this is about pressure. Are they going to finally show some class? Will they benefit the luck of seeing Leicester and Tottenham droping points without doing so themselves ? Hard to tell but anything is still possible . Good luck might win it for someone. Still wide open.

[Marc Overmars]

It is wide open, for Leicester and Spurs at least. Spurs are 6 points above us btw, not 3.

We need a hefty amount of luck to go our way to even have a sniff.

[Letters]

It is wide open, for Leicester and Spurs at least. Spurs are 6 points above us btw, not 3.

We need a hefty amount of luck to go our way to even have a sniff.

We have a game in hand though. Although with their goal difference it's as good as 4 points even if we win that.
With our respective run ins though I fancy our chances of finishing above them. No chance of finishing above Leicester unless they get a massive nosebleed

[Marc Overmars]

We need points on the board and fast, the game in hand isn't for another month so I'm not bothered about that right now. Given how seldom wins have been since Christmas I'm not sure we can bank on 3 points anyway.

[GP]

We need to win all our games left to even have a chance.

Can anyone seriously see that happening?

[Niall_Quinn]

We need to win all our games left to even have a chance.

Can anyone seriously see that happening?

I can see us winning all our games until we reach a point where one more win would put us back in serious contention. That is the game we will lose.

[Chippy]

We need to win all our games left to even have a chance.

Can anyone seriously see that happening?
Nope! That is why I have bee cheering on Leicester for weeks now. I was even slightly disappointed when we beat them 2-1 because I knew we'd fuck it up! Wenger out.

[fakeyank]

If that is your expectation then that comes almost entirely from Wenger's era. If you look back historically before that we were never consistent title challengers, the title in '89 was the first since '71 which was the first since 1953. Between '53 and '70 there were no trophies at all.

We won 2 titles in 3 years in the Graham era but that was the exception and didn't look like being repeated any time soon till Wenger came along. Read Fever Pitch if you want to know what being an Arsenal fan was mostly like in the 70s and 80s

Could Wenger have done better in the last 10 years? Of course. But in an era of billionaires buying up titles left right and centre right at a time when the stadium move and financial deals hampered us somewhat, he could have done a lot worse. I firmly believe - although we'll never know of course - had the billionaires not muscled in we'd have won another couple of titles under him. There have been a couple of years when the only teams finishing above us were those fueled by billionaires, clubs who never used to trouble us.

As for the state of the club if he stays much longer, people have been saying for years that he'll take us into mid-table but he never has. He is if nothing else a safe pair of hands. I don't think he's able to push us on any more so I agree he should go, but I don't think he deserves the level of abuse he gets - not just in the heat of the moment. I do agree with some of Zim's comments though that he doesn't help himself by the way he speaks sometimes.

Why should I keep thinking about the 70s and 80s? I was born in the mid-eighties. I dont need to go back 40 years where we were miserable to think that we are doing well now. You think thats the way SAF was thinking when he was picking up his first couple of titles? My expectation was raised in the first 10 years of Wengers era and I thank him for that... the problem was the dream he and his partners sold us i.e. move to Emirates and we will be challenging the best in the world. Forget best in the world, we are struggling at times to be 4th best!

My expectation is that Arsenal should be consistently challenging for the PL title and the fans actually have more than a glimmer of hope when playing the big teams in Europe. Lets just assume Mourinho or Klopp is our next manager (I despise Mourinho as you know), and we are scheduled to play Bayern or Barca in the CL. Do you think the fans will still go in with the same thought like we do now.. "We will most likely lose, hopefully it wont be a massacre". That is a shame for the manager of a club of Arsenal's resources.

As for going into mid-table, Wenger previously had to fight the likes of Utd, Chelsea, City and either Liverpool or Spurs to battle for the 4th place. Now you know things have changed with Leicester popping many a bubble about Wengers excuses. May be we will finish top 4 again next season and probably the season after but it'll be very soon when we will be kicked off our 'comfort zone'. You only need to look at Nokia to realize how sitting on your arse and not responding to change does to you. I can see Wenger sitting in a press conference and saying "“we didn't do anything wrong, but somehow, we lost". Well, may be not, that man it too thick skinned to accept he has made a mistake. He will probably blame the fans for it.