Match reaction: Everton 2-1 Arsenal

[Ernesto]

Koeman :censored:

[fakeyank]

4th place trophy, here we come.

[Kano]

Didn't get enough balls into Giroud when he came on.

The Everton love in was ridiculous on BT.

A defeat was always due, we weren't only going to lose one game.

On we go to Citeh.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Bollocks.

Don't think we were that bad but we lacked real attacking penetration against an Everton side playing a LOT better than the shower of shit they've been recently. Game raising cunts.

Koeman curse :rose:

Need to respond against Citeh.

[Niall_Quinn]

Whenever the road starts to open up, we crash. It's that simple really.

[Chippy]

Koeman :censored:

Normal service resumed. Typical Arsenal. Bring back Wilshire. Goodnight!

[Ernesto]

Yep, agreed on the BT Sport bias.

Didn't a bunch of Liverpool fans get together and try and ban Martin Tyler from commentating Man Utd v Liverpool matches for his exuberant over reactions?

Mcmanamam cheered when Ashley Williams scored. Just saying.

[The Verminator]

I don't post much but just want to say having watched the game I thought we played with passion and desire. It was a game full of energy that could have gone either way. I predicted a draw before the game and feel at the end it would have been a fair result. Tiny bit unlucky not to get a point but we've been lucky in other games so can't complain. I'm not saying we are going to win the league because I highly doubt it and didn't think anytime this season we will but I am liking how we are playing and this was not a bad performance. Just hope we react positively in the next game and move on.

[RomfordPele]

Poor performance, never really looked in control from about the 35th minute.

We need an upgrade on the wings if we want to trouble the trophy engravers any time soon.

I won't hold my breath in January...

[Chippy]

Bollocks.

Don't think we were that bad but we lacked real attacking penetration against an Everton side playing a LOT better than the shower of shit they've been recently. Game raising cunts.

Koeman curse :rose:

Need to respond against Citeh.
Wenger curse. Not Koeman.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I hate complaining about the commentary, but BT Sport is beyond the pale. Even if McMannaman wasn't cumming in his pants, the sound of his voice is easily as annoying as Owen's.

The worst commentary team in the business

[Niall_Quinn]

I hate complaining about the commentary, but BT Sport is beyond the pale. Even if McMannaman wasn't cumming in his pants, the sound of his voice is easily as annoying as Owen's.

The worst commentary team in the business

Don't be silly.

[Chippy]

I hate complaining about the commentary, but BT Sport is beyond the pale. Even if McMannaman wasn't cumming in his pants, the sound of his voice is easily as annoying as Owen's.

The worst commentary team in the business
McManaman is a fucking cunt, just like Owen. I hate BT Sports, wankers.

[Ernesto]

McManaman is a fucking cunt, just like Owen. I hate BT Sports, wankers.

Best post so far tbh. I hope mcmanamam's pubes fall off.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The most shameful thing about this is that we have a manager with no pride

How can you shake the hands of the players as they come off

He should be seething, seething about how he's let himself down by letting the likes of Koeman best him again, seething with his defenders and midfielders for playing like cunts. At his attacking players for managing only one shot on target in 90 minutes.....the referee for failing to award a penalty, the referee for failing to properly punish Evertons atavistic behaviour

A man who has no pride is not really a man.

[Niall_Quinn]

"I must say, we were a bit unlucky to lose as well."

"They defended very well. They played a cup game."

"Two defenders in their team scored."

"They made the game very physical."

"We can not fault our fighting spirit."

"We have every three four days games like that you know."

EXCUSES

EXCUSES

EXCUSES

What about the boring, shit arse, tippety tap, snail pace fuckuppery that you obviously demand? Could that not be responsible for the shitty performances that we've been putting in despite the fact we've been winning?

No. Never.

[Master Splinter]

Koeman Kurse.

Ozil cost us the game tbh with that miss. Also, Iwobi somehow hits it straight at Baines when the rest of the goal is wide open. :doh:

Whenever Gabriel plays, we look so vulnerable in the air. This isn't a knee-jerk thing. Gabriel has been good at right-back, but he would be my fifth choice centre-back. Holding's been excellent when he's played, but Wenget will stick with Gabriel.

Come out with intent and aggression against Citeh and this loss to a lame Everton side can be somewhat overlooked.

[Penguin]

A top team, a title challenging team would have enjoyed playing against a team in a slump like Everton. An average team with an average manager would back off at 1-0, let them have the ball and defend like clowns. We've had plenty of opportunities to climb to the top of the table and put pressure on our rivals and we've flushed those down the toilet every time. It wont be long before one of our rivals DOES take their chance and move away from the pack. It won't be a team that shits itself every time the pressure's on though.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJpqwimTg1w

[Thierrymon]

The result was to be expected to be honest. Koeman, just like Mourinho and Poch, knows exactly how to set his team up to play against us. I would be surprised if we beat any of those teams for the rest of the season.

[Marc Overmars]

Shite.

No problem beating the dregs of the league but tend to come a cropper in the more robust fixtures. Flat track bullies, that's us. You only have to see the fixtures we've dropped points in to know this.

City are horrific right now and we really need to go there and do a number on them. After tonight though I fear another charitable donation in helping a struggling team find their way again.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Ozil missed a sitter indeed (like Xhaka did a few games ago with the header) and had Theo or Iwobi missed it they'd be getting far more stick. Thought Xhaka and Coq were poor and that Gabriel was actually one of our better players.

[AFC Leveller]

I cant believe we lost to this Everton side, i really cant. They had won 1 game in 10 and looked all over the place and short of confidence but we went to sleep after we scored and slowly invited them back into the game. The game was a bit like the West ham game, us against a side struggling to win and we should have hammered them. Ozil tonight looked off the pace, he not only missed a sitter but the way he ducked out of the way for their 2nd goal showed he wasnt in it today. The last 5 minutes was how we should have played from the start, balls into the box, quick play and a bit more width.

Koeman is such a cunt with his "this is the third time i beat Arsenal as a home manager" comments. Yesterday the loss was down to us rather than the opposition and once again we rescue a struggling side and get them back on track.

Now we HAVE to win at City.

[Letters]

Disappointing. You're going to get days like this though.
It remains to be seen whether it's "same old Arsenal" or they made of sterner stuff now.
City are no pushovers and then we have 2 very winnable games. Chelsea don't look like slipping up so we can't afford to lose ground.

[Gooner23]

I think a measure of this team will be how we react against City. Another defeat and it will feel like business as usual though.

[Power n Glory]

Ozil missed a sitter indeed (like Xhaka did a few games ago with the header) and had Theo or Iwobi missed it they'd be getting far more stick. Thought Xhaka and Coq were poor and that Gabriel was actually one of our better players.

Indeed. Haven't seen the game but it's meltdown central on Twitter over Ozil's defending.

https://twitter.com/NoGrujicNoParty/status/808794674609737732

[Marc Overmars]

I think a measure of this team will be how we react against City. Another defeat and it will feel like business as usual though.

Yep, go and prove the doubters wrong. I think we are flattering to decieve but I would love to eat my words. Same old flakey Arsenal from what I see.

[Niall_Quinn]

Are there any more decent Jerry Maguire quotes that could apply here?

Or Groundhog Day quotes?

[Kano]

Yep, go and prove the doubters wrong. I think we are flattering to decieve but I would love to eat my words. Same old flakey Arsenal from what I see.

City will say a lot about where things are going head potentially. But the other question is when could a defeat of been accepted? If we'd of not lost yesterday and had done at City, familiar accusations would be thrown around. If we had not lost yesterday or at City, which would mean 16 undefeated, but then lose against West Brom, Palace or Bournemouth, would that have been acceptable? At some point we were going to lose again, because everyone does eventually and no team in this league is good enough to do so only once in a league season. One defeat in 15 games doesn't tell us about this team. The next 1-3 games will do that I think.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Disappointing. You're going to get days like this though.
It remains to be seen whether it's "same old Arsenal" or they made of sterner stuff now.
City are no pushovers and then we have 2 very winnable games. Chelsea don't look like slipping up so we can't afford to lose ground.

I do wonder sometimes if your memory gets wiped at the end of each season

Unequivocally this was same old Arsenal, once again diabolical defending and no proper marking and when teams just run at us we stand off. Reverting to tippy tappy sideways passing when the heat is on, lacking the mental strength to take our chances when they come.

Even my brother said oh well it was the referee's fault, he didn't take charge of the game. Have we not had years of experience that when we come up against teams that "rough us up" the match official is just going to ignore it. Every time are we going to just shrug our shoulders and say "what can you do?". That's your sterner stuff right there.

I repeat from last night, Wenger has squared off against Ronald Koeman Ten times before, Wenger has won once and Koeman five times.

Is that something you can just ignore, or do you think.......guys like this know how to play against us.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

City will say a lot about where things are going head potentially. But the other question is when could a defeat of been accepted? If we'd of not lost yesterday and had done at City, familiar accusations would be thrown around. If we had not lost yesterday or at City, which would mean 16 undefeated, but then lose against West Brom, Palace or Bournemouth, would that have been acceptable? At some point we were going to lose again, because everyone does eventually and no team in this league is good enough to do so only once in a league season. One defeat in 15 games doesn't tell us about this team. The next 1-3 games will do that I think.

The problem isn't that we lost, it's that we seem to always lose to the same kind of teams managed by people who find Wenger's Arsenal easy to play against

Mark Hughes, Tony Pulis, Jose Mourinho, Ronald Koeman, Mauricio Pochettino they all have our number.

If we win at any of the Hawthorns, the Britannia and White Hart Lane this season i'd be massively surprised

If we beat Everton or United when we play them at home, i'd be doubly surprised.

[Kano]

Going by the vast majority of the comments I've seen knocking about, losing seems to be the problem full stop.

[Letters]

I do wonder sometimes if your memory gets wiped at the end of each season.
No, it doesn't. But if you're so certain that things will turn out the same then stop watching. Why bother if you know the outcome? It's only going to end in disappointment so just go and do something more fulfilling.
Of course there are repeated failings, there are patterns but why is it so sneered at on here to live in hope, to think that there's a chance that new players coming in could change things?
In any season you get results like this. Any season. It's our first (league) loss since the opening day so I'm not going to wet my pants, the question now is how will we react? Will we react?
I fear the worst but hope for the best otherwise, to return to my original point, why bother following it at all?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Going by the vast majority of the comments I've seen knocking about, losing seems to be the problem full stop.

Well I can only speak for myself

Of course losing is a problem there is no sense in supporting a team if you aren't cross when it loses, but of course also it's unavoidable

But this is why I'm cross at this defeat

[Kano]

Well I can only speak for myself

Of course losing is a problem there is no sense in supporting a team if you aren't cross when it loses, but of course also it's unavoidable

But this is why I'm cross at this defeat
You mean because we always lost against these teams?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No, it doesn't. But if you're so certain that things will turn out the same then stop watching. Why bother if you know the outcome? It's only going to end in disappointment so just go and do something more fulfilling.
Of course there are repeated failings, there are patterns but why is it so sneered at on here to live in hope, to think that there's a chance that new players coming in could change things?
In any season you get results like this. Any season. It's our first (league) loss since the opening day so I'm not going to wet my pants, the question now is how will we react? Will we react?
I fear the worst but hope for the best otherwise, to return to my original point, why bother following it at all?

Again with your rather petulent response you've missed the point, there is not a single person who doesn't hope for the best. I didn't go into last night's game thinking "well it's going to be the same as always", I went into it thinking "no if's ands or buts we have to win". But there is just no sense in denying the reality when it's staring you in the face....this is the type of game we will probably lose (or fail to win) as long as Wenger is manager.

When's the last time we beat Mark Hughes managed side away from home? - January 2007!

When's the last time we beat Tony Pulis managed side away from home? - February 2010 (and they spent the last half hour down to ten men!)

When's the last time we beat a Ronald Koeman managed side away from home? - we never have!

I support this team therefore there is no choice but to hope for the best, but i'm not going to pretend there is no coincidence when the same things happen again and again.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You mean because we always lost against these teams?

Yes because there is a familiarity in failure to get one over the same managers again and again.

[Goonermerree]

We had them on the ropes for 20 mins, scored a fortuitous goal, then reverted to tippy tappy. We only really picked up the pace when were losing. That is why we lost and that is why a lot of fans are unhappy about the defeat. Go down fighting and you can ask for no more, go down without pressing and challenging and it's frustrating. We were walking around their box at one point just picking out passes, sideways backwards, this way that way. You could see Everton grow in confidence, keep it there all day long Arsenal.

Then they have a few counters and have narrow misses and they equalise. In the second half they were playing like the team who could go top, not us. We had the crowd quiet, but they came into it as well. Yes it looked like a pen, yes it might not have been a corner, but we shouldn't have been in that position by then. It really does feel like same old same old.

[Kano]

Yes because there is a familiarity in failure to get one over the same managers again and again.

Depends how you want to interpret 'got his number' really. There are a stack of draws in these games which doesn't tell me that these managers have a clear advantage. And if they did, they would be able to replicate it quite regularly at our place too, which they haven't. So I don't see what you do.

[Letters]

I support this team therefore there is no choice but to hope for the best, but i'm not going to pretend there is no coincidence when the same things happen again and again.
I'm not arguing with that.
My point was, and remains, that I'm not sure what to make of this result. Yes, I'm disappointed but in any season you will get results like this. It seems we were a bit unlucky to lose, right at the end we had the ball cleared off the line twice before Everton nearly broke away and scored a 3rd. And earlier Ozil missed a sitter. Fine lines in football sometimes. The important thing is how we react. Is this going to be the start of one of our trademark slumps or are they made of sterner stuff this year? We'll see.
And there are some people who don't hope for the best in the sense that they "know" we're going to fail (one of the usual suspects mentioning the "fourth place trophy" even though we haven't "won" that for 3 years.
I don't know why they bother watching.

[Power n Glory]

Are there any more decent Jerry Maguire quotes that could apply here?

Or Groundhog Day quotes?

......
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/02/article-2302910-00009B7400000258-319_634x430.jpg

Show me the money, Jerry.
http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8336695.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Mesut-Ozil-stars-in-ace-new-Adidas-advert.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Depends how you want to interpret 'got his number' really. There are a stack of draws in these games which doesn't tell me that these managers have a clear advantage. And if they did, they would be able to replicate it quite regularly at our place too, which they haven't. So I don't see what you do.

So it's not a problem for you that under these managers we can't beat these sides that are mid table sides away from home. When you play at home, you can dictate the tempo of the game more because you have the crowd on your side and the team are playing on familiar territory so it makes a difference for these managers.
Because we have managed to get away with draws on occasion doesn't change that and Koeman has beaten Wenger when playing in home fixtures three times in a row with an aggregate of 8 goals for and 1 against....is that really close?.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm not arguing with that.
My point was, and remains, that I'm not sure what to make of this result. Yes, I'm disappointed but in any season you will get results like this. It seems we were a bit unlucky to lose, right at the end we had the ball cleared off the line twice before Everton nearly broke away and scored a 3rd. And earlier Ozil missed a sitter. Fine lines in football sometimes. The important thing is how we react. Is this going to be the start of one of our trademark slumps or are they made of sterner stuff this year? We'll see.
And there are some people who don't hope for the best in the sense that they "know" we're going to fail (one of the usual suspects mentioning the "fourth place trophy" even though we haven't "won" that for 3 years.
I don't know why they bother watching.

We had one shot on target (the goal) before injury time....

Again you take these things too literally, the 4th placed trophy thing is gallows humour......it's a way of people showing their frustration at seeing the same old season in, season out. My attitude has always been expect the worst, hope for the best.....and when we lose three times in a row to the same manager away from home i'm not going to pretend it's a surprise or it's not the same old, same old.

Now if we do win at the Hawthorns, at the Britannia, beat either Everton or United at home.....than i might revise that opinion....but the precedent that's been set doesn't suggest that.

[Kano]

So it's not a problem for you that under these managers we can't beat these sides that are mid table sides away from home. When you play at home, you can dictate the tempo of the game more because you have the crowd on your side and the team are playing on familiar territory so it makes a difference for these managers.
Because we have managed to get away with draws on occasion doesn't change that and Koeman has beaten Wenger when playing in home fixtures three times in a row with an aggregate of 8 goals for and 1 against....is that really close?.

No because we beat nearly all of the fodder lower down the table. Having someone's number, to me, means being able to beat them 9 times out of ten. Maureen I can't dispute because he does have Wenger's number. But given we nearly always turn over those other pubbers at home, the definition doesn't stick. We can all stack up statistics to build an argument but only thankfully we don't play aggregate games in the Prem, so like most, that one is meaningless.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No because we beat nearly all of the fodder lower down the table. Having someone's number, to me, means being able to beat them 9 times out of ten. Maureen I can't dispute because he does have Wenger's number. But given we nearly always turn over those other pubbers at home, the definition doesn't stick. We can all stack up statistics to build an argument but only thankfully we don't play aggregate games in the Prem, so like most, that one is meaningless.


So basically you're quibbling over terms

In Koemans case he definitely does have Wengers number, again just to repeat head to head they have played each other Ten times and Koeman has won five and Wenger once......Ajax, PSV, Southampton and Everton these aren't teams that are on the same level as Arsenal let alone superior to. Mourinho at Chelsea at the very least they have either been equivalent to or better than us.

Regardless of what label you want to put on it, there is a clear problem when it comes to Beating teams managed by the managers I've mentioned away from home and it's happened too often to be a coincidence. I would agree with you, but look at Stoke (managed by Pulis and then Hughes)....Arsenal have played at the Britannia stadium nine times in all competitions since Stoke got promoted we have lost five times, drawn there three times and won only once. Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, United and City have all come unstuck there in the past but they have all shown that they can win there just as often as they lose.....the same cannot be said of Arsenal.

[Maestro]

The manner of the defeat was laughable but very familiar

[Xhaka Can’t]

Disappointing. You're going to get days like this though.
It remains to be seen whether it's "same old Arsenal" or they made of sterner stuff now.
City are no pushovers and then we have 2 very winnable games. Chelsea don't look like slipping up so we can't afford to lose ground.

The sun went down last night and came up this morning.

I wonder how the next 24 hours will pan out.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The sun went down last night and came up today.

I wonder how the next 24 hours will pan out.

There was a report on Sky News about our lack of preparedness for an Asteroid/Meteor collision

I think we are likely to get more than 24 hours notice.

[LDG]

The sun went down last night and came up this morning.

I wonder how the next 24 hours will pan out.

I'll judge it when the sun comes up.

[rodders]

Just when you begin to think at last we are making progress, we revert to the typical sort of defeat we have become accustomed to. Tons of possession , sod all shots on goal and defensive ineptitude. And of course excuses from the Supremo.

[Letters]

The sun went down last night and came up this morning.

I wonder how the next 24 hours will pan out.

You must clean up at the bookies :coffee:

[Goonermerree]

I'll judge it when the sun comes up.

I'll judge it in May when we actually see the bloody sun again. I'll just take Bauble's word for it that sun does actually come up in the morning!!!

[Goonermerree]

You must clean up at the bookies :coffee:

:lol:

[fakeyank]

Disappointing. You're going to get days like this though.
It remains to be seen whether it's "same old Arsenal" or they made of sterner stuff now.
City are no pushovers and then we have 2 very winnable games. Chelsea don't look like slipping up so we can't afford to lose ground.

Its not 'remains to be seen'. I am fairly certain it is the same old Arsenal.

[Letters]

Its not 'remains to be seen'. I am fairly certain it is the same old Arsenal.

Stop watching then :shrug:

[fakeyank]

Stop watching then :shrug:

Would you go to support your wife/family member in a game/competition even if you knew they'd lose? Would you watch it? To me, the answer to that question is that I would.. unfortunately with Arsenal, that is the case. I have however missed more than 5 games over the last 2 years. Prior to that, I wouldnt miss a single minute of any game regardless of competition. Now the amount of fucks I have for them have gotten lesser and lesser by the day.

I still love the club and coming here to post or watching them just gives some sort of sad joy to me. Dont know if 'sad joy' even makes sense! :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

There's nothing to judge. Everything has been judged, analysed to death. The verdict was in years ago and the only thing that keeps the debate alive is Wenger's failure to fuck right off. So we keep retrying the case while we wait for something, anything different.

Results are never the real indicator with this club, all they are is the false dawn before the next major fuck-up. Performances are what count and on average we are putting in around 3-4 decent performances a year and we've been doing that for several seasons now. The rest of it is dog shit, plodding, unambitious, overcautious, seemingly unmotivated dog shit performances that don't really change regardless of who is playing. And of course the lone player who steps up to drag the team to a higher level than the performances warrant, your Cesc, RvC, now Alexis. When these lone nuts who openly defy Wenger and his coma inducing ways have an off-day, fucking hell, then we see how shit we really are.

How this man Wenger can have reduced a team that contains internationals all over the pitch to the disorganised, unmotivated, sleepy rabble we saw again last night is hard to comprehend. But he does it and nothing is going to change while he's here.

[Niall_Quinn]

Stop watching then :shrug:

Why? It's his club too. Why does he have to stop watching because the club refuses to fire Wenger? It's Wenger that should be gone, not the fans.

[Goonermerree]

For years, Wenger has banged on about fatigue, players being tired etc. I think that makes the players feel tired, sure does me. I also think he likes them to conserve energy, he must when you see walking around tippy tappy that was on show last night. Trouble is, we heave to work harder in the end to either win the current match or fight to get 4th in the league.

[Letters]

I suppose the point is in sport you don't know what's going to happen. If I did then I probably wouldn't bother watching. I probably won't be re-watching the FA Cup semi-final vs ManYoo again, for example. Why put myself through that again?

Leicester are proof of this, who saw that coming? :blink:
And yes, yes we'll fail because...Wenger, but after the Birmingham debacle I and others thought we'd never win any trophy under him again.

Yes, there are repeated patterns, repeated failings. I do think we have a good squad though, probably the best we've had for a long time so I live in hope. What's the point otherwise? I don't understand why that is so sneered at on here. If I had to put money down I wouldn't be backing us for the title but I think we're one of the sides who have a credible chance. Hard to look past Chelsea right now but after about 8 games people were crowning City as Champions-Elect.

While we're in the mix I'll believe we have some chance. If we go on one of our trademark slumps after last night then I'll be agreeing it's same old Arsenal.

[Letters]

Why? It's his club too. Why does he have to stop watching because the club refuses to fire Wenger? It's Wenger that should be gone, not the fans.
He can do what he likes but personally I wouldn't bother if I thought I knew the outcome.

[Goonermerree]

Although we look set to be a few points behind Chelsea after the Christmas period, because its 3 points for a win and only one for a draw, things can change quickly. Look at Spuds we were above them yet they hadn't lost a match - too many draws. It's quite damaging. So if the chavs an others draw a few and we can pull a few wins out of the hat...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He can do what he likes but personally I wouldn't bother if I thought I knew the outcome.

The difference is between certainty and likelihood, the likelihood is that things will be the same as they always are to the point where familiar trends appear. Because fans love the club even though they have the overriding dread that the likely outcome will repeat itself, they are left with no choice but to live in hope.

[Letters]

I don't disagree with that likelihood but some on here don't live in hope. They sit watching what they (claim to) know is going to be a car crash. Why bother?
I actually didn't watch us play Spurs away last year because I "knew" we'd lose. I was pleased and relieved when I found we hadn't.
The only difference between "knowing" and "thinking" something is your own perceived assessment of how certain you are.

[Kano]

Although we look set to be a few points behind Chelsea after the Christmas period, because its 3 points for a win and only one for a draw, things can change quickly. Look at Spuds we were above them yet they hadn't lost a match - too many draws. It's quite damaging. So if the chavs an others draw a few and we can pull a few wins out of the hat...
Of course they can. I doubt Liverpool fans, despite having only won one trophy (I think) in a decade have given up hope. Or City fans, or even Spuds fans. Almost every single time a team loses a game they 'look' bad. This whole notion of supporters not complaining as long as the players give their all is a complete phallacy because how many times does a fan of a losing team have that perception when they've lost a game? Liverpool were 3-0 up the other week, seemed to be giving it 'their all' and end up conceding 4 goals in the last twenty minutes. When you lose, you always look beyond terrible and there are no saving graces handed out by fans.

[Letters]

phallacy.
tee hee! :d

[Goonermerree]

Of course they can. I doubt Liverpool fans, despite having only won one trophy (I think) in a decade have given up hope. Or City fans, or even Spuds fans. Almost every single time a team loses a game they 'look' bad. This whole notion of supporters not complaining as long as the players give their all is a complete phallacy because how many times does a fan of a losing team have that perception when they've lost a game? Liverpool were 3-0 up the other week, seemed to be giving it 'their all' and end up conceding 4 goals in the last twenty minutes. When you lose, you always look beyond terrible and there are no saving graces handed out by fans.

Oh I think you can tell when players have left nothing on the pitch and have given their all.

[Goonermerree]

tee hee! :d

Don't be cruel!!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

I suppose the point is in sport you don't know what's going to happen. If I did then I probably wouldn't bother watching. I probably won't be re-watching the FA Cup semi-final vs ManYoo again, for example. Why put myself through that again?

Leicester are proof of this, who saw that coming? :blink:
And yes, yes we'll fail because...Wenger, but after the Birmingham debacle I and others thought we'd never win any trophy under him again.

Yes, there are repeated patterns, repeated failings. I do think we have a good squad though, probably the best we've had for a long time so I live in hope. What's the point otherwise? I don't understand why that is so sneered at on here. If I had to put money down I wouldn't be backing us for the title but I think we're one of the sides who have a credible chance. Hard to look past Chelsea right now but after about 8 games people were crowning City as Champions-Elect.

While we're in the mix I'll believe we have some chance. If we go on one of our trademark slumps after last night then I'll be agreeing it's same old Arsenal.

Well I WANT to put money down and back Arsenal for the title. So Wenger has to go.

[Kano]

tee hee! :d

That misspelling just popped back into my head literally as I finished my run. Too late :angry:

[Goonermerree]

That misspelling just popped back into my head literally as I finished my run. Too late :angry:

How far did you run?

[Kano]

How far did you run?

Just the usual five miler, not a fan of road running in the winter but I'm not going to let my fitness level dip during the winter months. Subzero, hailstones or snow I'll be out there.

[Goonermerree]

Just the usual five miler, not a fan of road running in the winter but I'm not going to let my fitness level dip during the winter months. Subzero, hailstones or snow I'll be out there.

Good on you, keep going. I don't like running in winter either as there aren't many street lights around, so if I'm late going or it really is wicked outside, I have a treadmill I can use.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Of course they can. I doubt Liverpool fans, despite having only won one trophy (I think) in a decade have given up hope. Or City fans, or even Spuds fans. Almost every single time a team loses a game they 'look' bad. This whole notion of supporters not complaining as long as the players give their all is a complete phallacy because how many times does a fan of a losing team have that perception when they've lost a game? Liverpool were 3-0 up the other week, seemed to be giving it 'their all' and end up conceding 4 goals in the last twenty minutes. When you lose, you always look beyond terrible and there are no saving graces handed out by fans.


What in heavens name are you talking about, of course Liverpool were terrible when they were 3-1 up and ended up losing the game, that's totally unacceptable for a side with the pretence of challenging for the title.

Unless you are playing vastly superior opposistion if you are 3-1 up going into the last quarter of the game it is a failure both of the players and game management from the bench to close out the game.

[Kano]

A re-read is probably in order there.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A re-read is probably in order there.

Your point is (your incredibly non befitting patrionising aside :lol:) that regardless of how a defeat may occur that it will be looked upon unfavorably by fans, and whilst that is not untrue you have chosen a terrible example to make your point, as any analysis of that Liverpool defeat emotive or otherwise would result in the conclusion that it was an absolute capitulation.

[Kano]

Those who deserve to be patronised will be, a man with your own form should know that by now.

And surprise surprise, we disagree.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Those who deserve to be patronised will be, a man with your own form should know that by now.

And surprise surprise, we disagree.

Some people patronise because others deserve it

In your case it comes across far more of a deflection to cover for your own lack of understanding, so don't get me wrong i'm not offended i'm more bemused....but then perhaps i shouldn't be, your far from the only person i have encountered with an astonishing lack of self-awareness and reflection.

And as per usual your lack of agreement means nothing to me :)

[fakeyank]

Those who deserve to be patronised will be, a man with your own form should know that by now.

And surprise surprise, we disagree.

:popcorn:

[Chippy]

4th place trophy, here we come.

And all of the results tonight went against us so it makes it twice as bad. :(

[Xhaka Can’t]

You must clean up at the bookies :coffee:

No.

I work a desk job in an office.

[Letters]

:lol:

:rimshot:

[selassie]

Although we look set to be a few points behind Chelsea after the Christmas period, because its 3 points for a win and only one for a draw, things can change quickly. Look at Spuds we were above them yet they hadn't lost a match - too many draws. It's quite damaging. So if the chavs an others draw a few and we can pull a few wins out of the hat...

We're not finishing above Chelsea this season, not a hope in hell. They are far too organised for that and anybody who finishes above them will be champions, it won't be us. In fact I think Chelsea will win the league this season, it's not nailed on but I can't see past them at the moment.

[Goonermerree]

We're not finishing above Chelsea this season, not a hope in hell. They are far too organised for that and anybody who finishes above them will be champions, it won't be us. In fact I think Chelsea will win the league this season, it's not nailed on but I can't see past them at the moment.

I don't think we will win the league for one minute, my point is that things can change quickly. For instance, we could have gone top on Tuesday night, by the end of Sunday we could be 9 points behind them. They could have a few draws and we could be closer again. Same goes for all the teams around us.

[selassie]

I don't think we will win the league for one minute, my point is that things can change quickly. For instance, we could have gone top on Tuesday night, by the end of Sunday we could be 9 points behind them. They could have a few draws and we could be closer again. Same goes for all the teams around us.

Of course, no doubt.

I think we'll do our usual this season, hang around the top 3 pretending to challenge for the title without really challenging!

We do look a bit more solid this season but I think we just lack that extra something to break out as champions elect.

[Letters]

We're not finishing above Chelsea this season, not a hope in hell. They are far too organised for that and anybody who finishes above them will be champions, it won't be us. In fact I think Chelsea will win the league this season, it's not nailed on but I can't see past them at the moment.

And after 7 games when City were winning every game no-one could look past them. :shrug:
Have to say that right now Chelsea are looking pretty good and the lack of European football will help them but there's a long way to go yet.

[selassie]

And after 7 games when City were winning every game no-one could look past them. :shrug:
Have to say that right now Chelsea are looking pretty good and the lack of European football will help them but there's a long way to go yet.

In all fairness Chelsea have beaten a lot of their title rivals. Of course we took them to the cleaners in what was our best performance of the season and Liverpool also beat them, but since their formation change they have looked superb to be fair.

Man City had a fairly routine start, when coming up against decent opposition they have lost every time from what I can remember, I think them beating United was their only win against a rival so to speak.

We have actually done OK so far...we struggled against United and to a degree Spurs...shouldn't have really lost to Liverpool...and took Chelsea apart...in the other games we have largely done well with the exception of Tuesday.

Of course we are still in the race...I just don't think we have the mentality or extra bit of quality to break out of the pack and be champions.

[Letters]

I'd say we have the quality to challenge, I'm not sure about mentality. This weekend's game will be interesting, not sure I'd say it's a "must win" but a win would put us on the front foot again and show some intent.

[Power n Glory]

Chelsea and Liverpool are the ones to watch. Chelsea more. They have players with the experience to go all the way. We have a chance though. Slight hope but wouldn't be surprised if this loss knocks the teams confidence. Bitches.

[Letters]

Slight hope but wouldn't be surprised if this loss knocks the teams confidence. Bitches.
If it does then yes, we have no chance. Whoever our manager is, and I'd agree he's never been much of a motivator, the players need to take some responsibility, get their shizzle together and pick themselves up.
They are grown-ups, they shouldn't need that much extra motivation.

[Power n Glory]

If it does then yes, we have no chance. Whoever our manager is, and I'd agree he's never been much of a motivator, the players need to take some responsibility, get their shizzle together and pick themselves up.
They are grown-ups, they shouldn't need that much extra motivation.

It's the most mature and experienced squad since last winning the title. They should have it in them to bounce back.

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea and Liverpool are the ones to watch. Chelsea more. They have players with the experience to go all the way. We have a chance though. Slight hope but wouldn't be surprised if this loss knocks the teams confidence. Bitches.

Liverpool will probably concede too many due to their nature of their style, but Chelsea seem very well set up and Conte as much as it pains me to say it seems like a pretty likeable bloke who they enjoy playing for, plus they're all title winners in the squad anyway. When the business end comes they're going to be a lot fresher than everyone else, it's like Liverpool when they went very close under Rodgers (they also went on a ridiculous winning streak). Chelsea have us and all the other challengers on toast right now.

[Niall_Quinn]

In all fairness Chelsea have beaten a lot of their title rivals. Of course we took them to the cleaners in what was our best performance of the season and Liverpool also beat them, but since their formation change they have looked superb to be fair.

Man City had a fairly routine start, when coming up against decent opposition they have lost every time from what I can remember, I think them beating United was their only win against a rival so to speak.

We have actually done OK so far...we struggled against United and to a degree Spurs...shouldn't have really lost to Liverpool...and took Chelsea apart...in the other games we have largely done well with the exception of Tuesday.

Of course we are still in the race...I just don't think we have the mentality or extra bit of quality to break out of the pack and be champions.

Guardiola and Conte will fine tune things over the course of the season until they get close to where they want to be. It's their first season at their respective clubs. Plenty of room for improvement, although I get the impression Conte is a football man while Guardiola is more Wengeresque, on some hunt for a formula that might work elsewhere but could never work in the PL. But the scope for improvement in both clubs is there to be realised. You can't say the same about Wenger. What you have seen for a decade is what you are going to get right up until the end of the season. So it all hinges on our rivals fucking up. If they do then Wenger might float to the surface.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd say we have the quality to challenge, I'm not sure about mentality. This weekend's game will be interesting, not sure I'd say it's a "must win" but a win would put us on the front foot again and show some intent.

Of course it's a must win. WTF? They are potentially a title rival. If we go into this with any sort of attitude short of "must win" then we aren't even in this title hunt. This is what needs to be gone from the club. The acceptance that anything less than 100% is somehow normal.

[GP]

Every game needs to be treated as "must win". Every single one.

[Power n Glory]

Liverpool will probably concede too many due to their nature of their style, but Chelsea seem very well set up and Conte as much as it pains me to say it seems like a pretty likeable bloke who they enjoy playing for, plus they're all title winners in the squad anyway. When the business end comes they're going to be a lot fresher than everyone else, it's like Liverpool when they went very close under Rodgers (they also went on a ridiculous winning streak). Chelsea have us and all the other challengers on toast right now.

I like Conte and Klopp. It's a damn shame they're at Liverpool and Chelsea. Right cunts. But yes, it seems like Conte is finding that balance quickly and he's done it by adjusting his formation and making use of what he has available. I can respect that. Again, it's just a shame it's being done for Chelsea.

[Letters]

Every game needs to be treated as "must win". Every single one.

Fine, but realistically you're not going to win all of them. A win on Sunday would be "a statement" but I don't buy that failure to do so means we have no chance.
Chelsea didn't win away at Arsenal, for example.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fine, but realistically you're not going to win all of them. A win on Sunday would be "a statement" but I don't buy that failure to do so means we have no chance.
Chelsea didn't win away at Arsenal, for example.

Who said a loss means we have no chance? Nobody. That's not what a winning mentality is about. You go into every game committed 100% because you should expect no less from your opponents and if you are not 100% focused and 100% committed and 100% chasing that victory, whatever it takes, then there's much more chance of coming a cropper against an opponent who is properly committed. You might win, you might lose. Provided you have put every possible effort in then that's how it goes sometimes. But don't show me half-arsed performances like the Everton game and say win some, lose some. No, you fuck around like we did and you'll lose more than you win. It's unforgivable that Wenger permits them to step out on a pitch with such a casual attitude. It's a joke.

[Letters]

Who said a loss means we have no chance? Nobody.
Well, apart from you. Just now. When you said it's a must win. And you've been saying we have no chance all season regardless of results.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Fine, but realistically you're not going to win all of them. A win on Sunday would be "a statement" but I don't buy that failure to do so means we have no chance.
Chelsea didn't win away at Arsenal, for example.

Actually i'd say given the context of where we are, it does pretty much mean that

Chelsea will probably win at Palace, therefore anything less than a win for us is probably going to mean an eight or nine point gap.....not something i can see us making up....not against a team that has won thirteen out of sixteen league games this season and has won ten on the bounce.

So in that sense the term "must win" takes on precise meaning because that's exactly what it is.

[Letters]

Actually i'd say given the context of where we are, it does pretty much mean that

Chelsea will probably win at Palace, therefore anything less than a win for us is probably going to mean an eight or nine point gap.....not something i can see us making up....not against a team that has won thirteen out of sixteen league games this season and has won ten on the bounce.

So in that sense the term "must win" takes on precise meaning because that's exactly what it is.

Runs like that don't go on forever though, they'll start dropping points soon, no team wins every game forever. It's early enough in the season to not be completely fatal to our chances but I agree a gap of 8 or 9 points even at this stage would be worrying.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, apart from you. Just now. When you said it's a must win. And you've been saying we have no chance all season regardless of results.

Oh right. You're just going to ignore what I posted and pretend I posted something else? Fine.

I didn't say we had no chance. I said if all our rivals fuck up badly enough we might find ourselves at the top. There's a tiny chance of that happening. I still think Wenger would find a way to fuck it up though.

[Letters]

Oh right. You're just going to ignore what I posted and pretend I posted something else? Fine.
You never do that of course :lol:


Maybe you don't understand what "must" means. :shrug:

[Niall_Quinn]

You never do that of course :lol:


Maybe you don't understand what "must" means. :shrug:

I guess not, which gives you an advantage. I understand what winning means though, which claws that advantage back and then some.

[selassie]

Runs like that don't go on forever though, they'll start dropping points soon, no team wins every game forever. It's early enough in the season to not be completely fatal to our chances but I agree a gap of 8 or 9 points even at this stage would be worrying.

Of course they will drop points but so will we. We aren't even really under any pressure at the moment and we have already folded by losing on Tuesday and given them an advantage.

We need to win on Sunday, being 9 points behind them after Sunday will not be good, especially not given their current form and momentum. Moreover, any more losses and we'll be looking over our shoulders at Spurs and United and dropping out of the top 4...Chelsea and challenging the title will no longer be our focus.

[fakeyank]

Chelsea and challenging the title will no longer be our focus.

Story of every season tbh. Towards the end we will be looking at the position we deserve to be in.