Was this our most wasted summer transfer window yet?

[Dicks and chicks]

Instead of buying proven pl talent like Van Djk, Kante we settled and splashed out more money on players that haven't delivered. We could've invested the 80 mil we blew on players on a top class striker or a paul Pogba but instead we got 3 magic beans.

[Marc Overmars]

It doesn't really matter anymore.We've spent money, we've signed decent players and we are no closer to where we want to be. If anything we are going backwards.

[Dicks and chicks]

It doesn't really matter anymore.We've spent money, we've signed decent players and we are no closer to where we want to be. If anything we are going backwards.

Should have bought a premium talent like a pogba or higuain then filled the squad with young talents like the serge

[Marc Overmars]

We have signed premium talent, nothing has changed.The manager is the reason we are not good enough to push for major honours.

[selassie]

We have signed premium talent, nothing has changed.The manager is the reason we are not good enough to push for major honours.Yep, nail on head. If we gave Wenger 200 million I don't actually think he would improve the team. He's the problem, the constant in season upon season of under achievement.

[Gooner23]

Yep, nail on head. If we gave Wenger 200 million I don't actually think he would improve the team. He's the problem, the constant in season upon season of under achievement.

👍

[Maestro]

We have signed premium talent, nothing has changed.The manager is the reason we are not good enough to push for major honours.

Agreed.

The way I see it, we have a very talented team technically if not the most talented in the league. We've seen what they can do when they are fired up, work their socks off and to a set game plan. Sadly we obviously haven't seen anywhere near enough of that, for various reasons which ultimately lead to a couple of doors. ......poor management of the team and lack of sporting ambition from the board and owner.

We've got four world class players (Sanchez, Ozil, Bellerin, Kos) surrounded by a couple of very good players (Carzola, Mustafi) and several good/decent players (Perez, Coquelin, Ox, Iwobi, Welbeck, Cech). Of course we can always strengthen and maybe need to in a couple of areas, but that's not a bad outfit. The only thing lacking is a manager who has not only the ability but most importantly, the balls to run the team. We need a manager with a ruthless will to win and can transmit that to the team, and demand full application win or lose.

There's a whole lot of fucking slackness going at this club, far too much skylarking for my liking.

[mastermind84]

We have signed premium talent, nothing has changed.The manager is the reason we are not good enough to push for major honours.

yup


and the correct answer is the Summer of 2015 was the summer Wenger blew it.

This past summer he signed quality players but Wenger does not know where to play anyone. He needs to go.

[GP]

��

:good:

[AFC Leveller]

Wenger cannot motivate his teams enough and doesn't get the best of of them. When you look at the city and Everton defeats, the players we had out there should have roasted both teams but we lost in exactly the same way. Weak mentality, or enough instructions from the bench and game management was zero.

[topgun]

Agreed.

The way I see it, we have a very talented team technically if not the most talented in the league. We've seen what they can do when they are fired up, work their socks off and to a set game plan. Sadly we obviously haven't seen anywhere near enough of that, for various reasons which ultimately lead to a couple of doors. ......poor management of the team and lack of sporting ambition from the board and owner.

We've got four world class players (Sanchez, Ozil, Bellerin, Kos) surrounded by a couple of very good players (Carzola, Mustafi) and several good/decent players (Perez, Coquelin, Ox, Iwobi, Welbeck, Cech). Of course we can always strengthen and maybe need to in a couple of areas, but that's not a bad outfit. The only thing lacking is a manager who has not only the ability but most importantly, the balls to run the team. We need a manager with a ruthless will to win and can transmit that to the team, and demand full application win or lose.

There's a whole lot of fucking slackness going at this club, far too much skylarking for my liking.

Good post,totally agree.Heard someone recently that we have a really good team we just need a really good manager,can't say I disagree.

[Özim]

Awful transfer window wasted on the wrong players.

Xhaka - not worth the money we paid, not convinced he was the right player to sign though we did new a DM
Mustafi - again relatively unknown, really expensive for someone with no real pedigree
Perez - Once again we waste our money on players that aren't suitable, we needed an out and out goalscorer but we went for a glorified winger, that was never going to end well.

In the end though, Wenger never gets it right, he either doesn't spend the money or when he does signs all the wrong players and wastes millions, the guy just needs to leave and let someone who know what they're doing take over.

As for our latest addition, what an absolute joke, the guy was about to quit part time football to find himself a job and then we go and snap him up lol

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Awful transfer window wasted on the wrong players.

Xhaka - not worth the money we paid, not convinced he was the right player to sign though we did new a DM
Mustafi - again relatively unknown, really expensive for someone with no real pedigree
Perez - Once again we waste our money on players that aren't suitable, we needed an out and out goalscorer but we went for a glorified winger, that was never going to end well.

In the end though, Wenger never gets it right, he either doesn't spend the money or when he does signs all the wrong players and wastes millions, the guy just needs to leave and let someone who know what they're doing take over.

As for our latest addition, what an absolute joke, the guy was about to quit part time football to find himself a job and then we go and snap him up lol

The opinion of Le Grove for what it's worth is that Wenger is playing Xhaka as a box to box midfielder when he should be playing him as a deep lying playmaker and therefore we are not getting what we should be getting out of him.

The problem with getting an out and out goal scorer was who do you get?.....the only big striker move in the summer was Higuain from Napoli to Juventus for 75million. Man City could not get Aubemeyang, Real Madrid could not get Lewandowski.....out and out strikers of great quality are a rarity. I think Lucas Perez might have been a panic buy, but 16million reflects the absurdity of the current market and I have to say I actually like what i've seen of him....i just think he needs to play more.

[Goonermerree]

I don't know if I like Perez or not, he's looked good at times, but he deifinately needs to play more.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger recently corrected that statement about Xhaka being a box to box player.

http://www.squawka.com/news/wenger-xhaka-is-more-a-deep-playmaker-than-a-box-to-box-midfielder/836501

I don't see that in his game anyway. He's not mobile enough for that role. We just bought the wrong sort of player. He wasn't the sort of midfielder we needed and now we're scrambling around trying to find the right player combination to compliment him. It's a huge waste of money. Not good enough on the ball to protect it and recycle possession. Too reckless to protect the back four and pretty poor at defending anyway. A decent long pass but we can hardly take advantage of it because we usually play against a packed defence. I have no idea what we were thinking.

Too early to judge Perez. He has quality and needs more games to really judge.

[Özim]

The only good thing about our last transfer window was the one season wonder Vardy turning us down, whilst embarassing, it would have been far more embarassing to have waste 20 million on a guy who can't hit a barn door these days.

[Özim]

The opinion of Le Grove for what it's worth is that Wenger is playing Xhaka as a box to box midfielder when he should be playing him as a deep lying playmaker and therefore we are not getting what we should be getting out of him.

The problem with getting an out and out goal scorer was who do you get?.....the only big striker move in the summer was Higuain from Napoli to Juventus for 75million. Man City could not get Aubemeyang, Real Madrid could not get Lewandowski.....out and out strikers of great quality are a rarity. I think Lucas Perez might have been a panic buy, but 16million reflects the absurdity of the current market and I have to say I actually like what i've seen of him....i just think he needs to play more.

I'm not convinced, just don't think Xhaka is really what we needed, he's a typical Wenger signing really, much like Mustafi, Wenger always wants players who are under the radar so to speak.

As for Perez, he may get a few goals but he's not the answer to a problem we've had for year, who could we have signed, IMO there were a few players with better goal records flying about that may have been a better bet if we weren't going to go for someone like Griezmann. Lacazette would have been my choice.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not convinced, just don't think Xhaka is really what we needed, he's a typical Wenger signing really, much like Mustafi, Wenger always wants players who are under the radar so to speak.

As for Perez, he may get a few goals but he's not the answer to a problem we've had for year, who could we have signed, IMO there were a few players with better goal records flying about that may have been a better bet if we weren't going to go for someone like Griezmann. Lacazette would have been my choice.

No idea why Wenger keeps doing this. I keep reading blogs and tweets suggesting we're not playing Xhaka deep enough and it's a problem with our formation /system but I disagree. We should have bought a player to enhance the current system, not someone that create a whole new systematic conundrum. We finally work out that it takes a player like Santi to play in that role and we finally discover a more combative DM in Coquelin. Instead of upgrading on either of the two players he throws in a totally different player that can't in the current set up effectively.

He did the same after selling RVP. After the struggle we had to find a good striker after Henry and Ade, we find a role for RVP that he blossoms in but we sell him and go for a totally different striker that's incompatible with our current system. Giroud and Podolski were terrible buys. He just keeps on doing it. He doesn't adapt the system just tries to force the players to fit.

[Letters]

Oh good.
Zim's back.
I hoped thought he was dead

[Özim]

No idea why Wenger keeps doing this. I keep reading blogs and tweets suggesting we're not playing Xhaka deep enough and it's a problem with our formation /system but I disagree. We should have bought a player to enhance the current system, not someone that create a whole new systematic conundrum. We finally work out that it takes a player like Santi to play in that role and we finally discover a more combative DM in Coquelin. Instead of upgrading on either of the two players he throws in a totally different player that can't in the current set up effectively.

He did the same after selling RVP. After the struggle we had to find a good striker after Henry and Ade, we find a role for RVP that he blossoms in but we sell him and go for a totally different striker that's incompatible with our current system. Giroud and Podolski were terrible buys. He just keeps on doing it. He doesn't adapt the system just tries to force the players to fit.

Wengers a law onto himself, he goes out of the way to make sure he doesn't do the logical things any other manager would do, you just can't trust the guy, once again we've been dreadful this season, watching paint dry is (actually more interested these days) and when the going gets tough we go missing, this is all down to a man who won't bring in the right players and always looks for players that are relatively uproven or cut price deals (Perez/Vardy), we're a big club we don't need to penny pinch or settle for players, we should be going out and getting the players we need, we have the money after all.

It's clear (well it was 6 years ago to be fair), he's not going to change, he's not going to adapt and nothing is ever going to get better, unfrotunately we seem to be stuck with him, what do you do? :shrugs:

[Power n Glory]

Wengers a law onto himself, he goes out of the way to make sure he doesn't do the logical things any other manager would do, you just can't trust the guy, once again we've been dreadful this season, watching paint dry is (actually more interested these days) and when the going gets tough we go missing, this is all down to a man who won't bring in the right players and always looks for players that are relatively uproven or cut price deals (Perez/Vardy), we're a big club we don't need to penny pinch or settle for players, we should be going out and getting the players we need, we have the money after all.

It's clear (well it was 6 years ago to be fair), he's not going to change, he's not going to adapt and nothing is ever going to get better, unfrotunately we seem to be stuck with him, what do you do? :shrugs:

Perez looks like a decent player but he’s definitely not what we needed. He’s done exactly what I feared he would do if we had bought Vardy by playing him on the wing to accommodate Giroud. If he’d had gone with bigger out and out striker, we wouldn’t be seeing Giroud in the starting line.

[Özim]

Perez looks like a decent player but he’s definitely not what we needed. He’s done exactly what I feared he would do if we had bought Vardy by playing him on the wing to accommodate Giroud. If he’d had gone with bigger out and out striker, we wouldn’t be seeing Giroud in the starting line.

Perez is nothing more than a backup to be fair, even if he's decent, what we needed was another goalscorer but now we've got Perez and the chance of getting another striker has disappeared.

Giroud has never been good enough, yes sure sometimes he gets lucky and scores the odd goal, but he's not really a quality striker, but Wenger has done what Wenger always does best, stick with players even if they are sub-standard because he's ore interested in his relationship with someone than the success of the team.

What did we spend last summer, 100 odd million and in all of that there is not one proven player, I'd have spent it on at least one top class player that would make the diffence, 100 million would have definitely got you that, instead we have 3 players who are hardly pulling any trees out.

Congratulations on another job well done Mr Wenger :good:

[Power n Glory]

It's around £90m spent. It's a shitload for what we've bought. Mustafi's price comes down to our own making. Instead of buying early we put ourselves in a position where clubs could inflate the price because they knew we were desperate.

[Niall_Quinn]

We should have bought Vidal two seasons ago and then spent 90mill on a striker in the summer. We'd be sorted now and challenging on all fronts. Plus there would be no talk of our players wanting away and Wenger might be able to claim with some credibility he was moving us forwards. But he doesn't think like that. He thinks smaaaaaaaaaaaaaall. He thinks in averages. He thinks in minimums. He's a loser.

[AFC Leveller]

Oh good.
Zim's back.
I hoped thought he was dead

i dont remember seeing him earlier in the season when we beat Chelsea!

[Power n Glory]

i dont remember seeing him earlier in the season when we beat Chelsea!

:lol: Knock it off. He's hardly posted all season like a lot of regulars. People have checked out for this season. Even the GW server is trying to pack it in.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: Knock it off. He's hardly posted all season like a lot of regulars. People have checked out for this season. Even the GW server is trying to pack it in.

True but he's definitely a purveyor of misery, there is wanting Wenger out and there's being Zim

[Letters]

:lol: Knock it off. He's hardly posted all season like a lot of regulars. People have checked out for this season. Even the GW server is trying to pack it in.

He was posting early season, then we started doing well and he stopped, now we've slumped he's back.
May be a co-incidence of course, but he was posting plenty at the start of the season.

[Özim]

He was posting early season, then we started doing well and he stopped, now we've slumped he's back.
May be a co-incidence of course, but he was posting plenty at the start of the season.

lol too funny, I didn't post when we lost 2 on the spin did I? Sounds like coincidence to me, unless you have an agenda.

Besides at no point this season have I been satisified with what's been happening, we play football as dull as dishwater, scrape wins most of the time and collapse when it gets tough, nothing new here. Who would have thought the same thing that's been happening for 10 years would happen again, it must be coincidence.

[Özim]

i dont remember seeing him earlier in the season when we beat Chelsea!

Do you remember me posting when we lost to Everton? How about when we lost to Man City? Oh and how about after our lucky draw win Man U?

Didn't think so :coffee:

[Letters]

I said it may be a co-incidence :shrug:
I don't care, post when you want.

[Power n Glory]

We slumped weeks ago. From draws to Boro, Spurs, Utd and losses to Everton, City. Nothing posted after those poor performances.

This isn't a match thread gents. It's looking back at the summer signings now that we're at the half way mark.

[Özim]

True but he's definitely a purveyor of misery, there is wanting Wenger out and there's being Zim

Not my fault the guy is incapable of learning a lesson, most people learn from their mistakes, if not the 2nd time round, then the 3rd, 4th or 5th.

Then we have Wenger who still hasn't learned a thing after 10+ tries.

[Özim]

I said it may be a co-incidence :shrug:
I don't care, post when you want.

Thanks :good:

[fakeyank]

i dont remember seeing him earlier in the season when we beat Chelsea!

There really was no point posting around then. He could have come and said that this is just a false dawn (like every season) where we have a couple of good performance, good runs and then we piss of and die. But saying this when we beat Chelsea or when we were on our customary 'unbeaten run' would result in "Right now we are doing great and challenging, thats the best we can do".

NQ has stood his ground and kept plugging away throughout the season that the unbeaten run, win against Chelsea etc are what we have been seeing every season and this is no different than the last 10 years. I do it once in a while but like PnG said, most of us are checked out. I follow Arsenal now because they are a part of my life but there is not ONE game that excites me. In the past, I knew our next 10 games off the top of my head. Today, I cant even tell you who we are playing this weekend.

[Letters]

We slumped weeks ago. From draws to Boro, Spurs, Utd and losses to Everton, City. Nothing posted after those poor performances.
Ok :shrug:

I was just responding to your post which said he's hardly posted this season. Not true, he was posting plenty in the first couple of months.
No idea why he stopped or why he came back but it's always good to read his balanced and objective opinions.

[GP]

Ok :shrug:

I was just responding to your post which said he's hardly posted this season. Not true, he was posting plenty in the first couple of months.
No idea why he stopped or why he came back but it's always good to read his balanced and objective opinions.

:lol:

[Özim]

It's around £90m spent. It's a shitload for what we've bought. Mustafi's price comes down to our own making. Instead of buying early we put ourselves in a position where clubs could inflate the price because they knew we were desperate.

That's a lot of money and we could have used those resources much more wisely, like you said had we gone in early rather than waiting like we usually do the prices may have been lower, the way we go about our transfers defies logic.

I was sceptical about our signings, they were all gambles, expensive ones at that, if you gamble too many times eventually you pay the price.

[Power n Glory]

He was posting early season, then we started doing well and he stopped, now we've slumped he's back.
May be a co-incidence of course, but he was posting plenty at the start of the season.

Do something useful and make a formal apology to Cripps. The Real Cripps. :lol: NQ is doing a bad impersonation.

[Özim]

There really was no point posting around then. He could have come and said that this is just a false dawn (like every season) where we have a couple of good performance, good runs and then we piss of and die. But saying this when we beat Chelsea or when we were on our customary 'unbeaten run' would result in "Right now we are doing great and challenging, thats the best we can do".

NQ has stood his ground and kept plugging away throughout the season that the unbeaten run, win against Chelsea etc are what we have been seeing every season and this is no different than the last 10 years. I do it once in a while but like PnG said, most of us are checked out. I follow Arsenal now because they are a part of my life but there is not ONE game that excites me. In the past, I knew our next 10 games off the top of my head. Today, I cant even tell you who we are playing this weekend.

Pretty much how I feel, it's rinse and repeat nothing changes and after 10+ years it's wearing thin. Wenger still thinks we're footballs' entertainers and the best thing since sliced bread, but let's face it he lives in some alternate reality where logic does not apply. Wether he has money or not doesn't matter, because he'll choose to spend it in some odd way that makes little sense to most people, that's pretty much what happened last summer, you wouldn't find one person that would have got even close to guessing the signings we made before they happened, there's a good reason for that.

If you want to sum up Wenger these days, just go back and watch his 1000th game in charge, that sums up the man.

[Letters]

he lives in some alternate reality where logic does not apply.
I know someone like that.

[Letters]

Do something useful and make a formal apology to Cripps. The Real Cripps. :lol: NQ is doing a bad impersonation.

Yeah, this place could do with more WUMs. :sarcy:

[Özim]

I know someone like that.

Probably do, there's not as many as there use to be though.

[GP]

Yeah, this place could do with more WUMs. :sarcy:

Come on now, you really should apologise for him constantly WUMing and driving people away from the site you worked so hard to build.

[Özim]

Yeah, this place could do with more WUMs. :sarcy:

From what I've seen he's still on another popular forum and hasn't been banned from there, a forum people use to say wouldn't tolerate certain peoples' views.

[Letters]

From what I've seen he's still on another popular forum and hasn't been banned from there, a forum people use to say wouldn't tolerate certain people's views.

Then I guess he doesn't post there like he used to here.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not my fault the guy is incapable of learning a lesson, most people learn from their mistakes, if not the 2nd time round, then the 3rd, 4th or 5th.

Then we have Wenger who still hasn't learned a thing after 10+ tries.

That's not what I find ridiculous, it's your daft assertion that the club would have been better off if he'd never become manager in the first place and that it will be worse off once he leaves than when he took on the job in 1996.

[Power n Glory]

Ok :shrug:

I was just responding to your post which said he's hardly posted this season. Not true, he was posting plenty in the first couple of months.
No idea why he stopped or why he came back but it's always good to read his balanced and objective opinions.

The post count on here is not even close to what it used to be. I don't think Zim has posted much since late September and we've had some shockers since from October up until now.

It's across GW. One of the mods should have a word with you the discouraging discussion. It's counter productive. Heck, even the mods have stopped posting on here.

[Power n Glory]

Come on now, you really should apologise for him constantly WUMing and driving people away from the site you worked so hard to build.

Driving people away from the site? :lol: Have you seen this place? What you guys are doing now is just as bad. We've totally gone off topic.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What gets me about this place is the attempt to police things that are said, not even the Wenger discussion as that's completely anodyne anyway

And to be fair on Letters this tends to be more Macca than him, the need to delete things that might be seen as a little edgy

We are all adults on this site and we all know the difference between hyperbole and genuine sentiment.

[Power n Glory]

From what I've seen he's still on another popular forum and hasn't been banned from there, a forum people use to say wouldn't tolerate certain peoples' views.

What forum?

[Özim]

That's not what I find ridiculous, it's your daft assertion that the club would have been better off if he'd never become manager in the first place and that it will be worse off once he leaves than when he took on the job in 1996.

People hail the man as somekind of magician, guess what a magician doesn't go most of his career at one club consistently failing to succeed, name me 1 other manager who after a period of great success has failed to reproduce for so long and still remained in charge.

I'm pretty sure that once he leaves we're likely to go through a slump (I'll take it though) simply because this club is basically Arsene Wenger FC, it shouldn't be but it is, so when he leaves it will be hard for anyone to take over, his personality and flaws are so ingrained in this club it will take a good few years to get rid of that.

Man U went through it, but they had a far superior manager, with a will to succeed, so at least they had years of success before it happened, we on the other hand have had years of frustration and disappointment, some of us have even come to accept failure and turned it on its head as if it's actually success.

[Özim]

What forum?

Goonersworld.

[Power n Glory]

Goonersworld.

The bastards. He goes down as the RVP of GW.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What gets me about this place is the attempt to police things that are said, not even the Wenger discussion as that's completely anodyne anyway

And to be fair on Letters this tends to be more Macca than him, the need to delete things that might be seen as a little edgy

We are all adults on this site and we all know the difference between hyperbole and genuine sentiment.

I refer you to what happened to the Big Four forum of which had former GW alumni. And their forum was smaller even than this..

Also I don't have much of a problem with any of the signings we made this summer. I can't think of any players that went in the summer I am even jealous of really. Maybe Mane.

[Letters]

Driving people away from the site? :lol: Have you seen this place? What you guys are doing now is just as bad. We've totally gone off topic.

I know for a fact that people left because of him.

The post count isn't anywhere near enough to make this a good site, we definitely need new people. My feeling is that we're not going to suddenly see a resurgence I don't think we've done anything wrong though, the whole concept of messageboards is less popular than it used to be, people have moved on to chatting about things on FB and in other ways. I couldn't work out if you were accusing me of discouraging discussion, I don't see how I've ever done that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

People hail the man as somekind of magician, guess what a magician doesn't go most of his career at one club consistently failing to succeed, name me 1 other manager who after a period of great success has failed to reproduce for so long and still remained in charge.

I'm pretty sure that once he leaves we're likely to go through a slump (I'll take it though) simply because this club is basically Arsene Wenger FC, it shouldn't be but it is, so when he leaves it will be hard for anyone to take over, his personality and flaws are so ingrained in this club it will take a good few years to get rid of that.

You are pettifogging, the issue is not whether he's the second coming or something like that....the issue is whether the club has improved and grown bigger as a result of him being the manager than the position it was in in 1996. No-one is stating that he hasn't massively outstayed his welcome or that he hasn't come close to emulating what he did in the first half of his arsenal managerial career, but we are an incredibly well run club and Wenger is part of that even as a football manager he is massively lacking.
I'd like him to move on to give a younger, more ambitious and more innovative man a chance to move the team forward, but there is absolutely no question that this club is a very attractive prospect for any manager and Wenger takes responsibility for that as much as he takes responsibility for our inability to challenge for major honours.

[Letters]

What gets me about this place is the attempt to police things that are said, not even the Wenger discussion as that's completely anodyne anyway

And to be fair on Letters this tends to be more Macca than him, the need to delete things that might be seen as a little edgy

We are all adults on this site and we all know the difference between hyperbole and genuine sentiment.

Things are hardly ever deleted on here. IMO we've always moderated with a very light touch on here, arguably too light. Back in the day it was very hard to get banned from this place.

[Letters]

I refer you to what happened to the Big Four forum of which had former GW alumni. And their forum was smaller even than this..
:lol: Wow, yeah - I'd forgotten about that!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I refer you to what happened to the Big Four forum of which had former GW alumni. And their forum was smaller even than this..

Also I don't have much of a problem with any of the signings we made this summer. I can't think of any players that went in the summer I am even jealous of really. Maybe Mane.

I am just stating the things on here that personally aggravate me. It's your forum you can do what you like, my suggestion is don't try and pre-empt people getting offended.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I am just stating the things on here that personally aggravate me. It's your forum you can do what you like, my suggestion is don't try and pre-empt people getting offended.

I'm judging what gets you shafted by The Sun.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Things are hardly ever deleted on here. IMO we've always moderated with a very light touch on here, arguably too light. Back in the day it was very hard to get banned from this place.

I have had a handful of posts deleted in the last few months, because of off colour remarks and humour

None of which in my view were justified, i don't think anyone on here is what i'd call thin skinned.

[GP]

:lol: Wow, yeah - I'd forgotten about that!

It wasn't as good as Ollie's film forum.

[Marc Overmars]

Stop all moderation and let the lunatics run the asylum I say.

[Letters]

People hail the man as somekind of magician, guess what a magician doesn't go most of his career at one club consistently failing to succeed, name me 1 other manager who after a period of great success has failed to reproduce for so long and still remained in charge.
Clough.


And he ended up taking Forest down.

[Özim]

You are pettifogging, the issue is not whether he's the second coming or something like that....the issue is whether the club has improved and grown bigger as a result of him being the manager than the position it was in in 1996. No-one is stating that he hasn't massively outstayed his welcome or that he hasn't come close to emulating what he did in the first half of his arsenal managerial career, but we are an incredibly well run club and Wenger is part of that even as a football manager he is massively lacking.
I'd like him to move on to give a younger, more ambitious and more innovative man a chance to move the team forward, but there is absolutely no question that this club is a very attractive prospect for any manager and Wenger takes responsibility for that as much as he takes responsibility for our inability to challenge for major honours.

Maybe the club is an attracitve proposition, but let me remind you we were heavily linked with managers like Bobby Robson and Cruyff top managers back in the day before Wenger even joined.

I don't think we've ever struggled to attract managers, I won't argue the club is bigger and run better, but I don't attribute that to Wenger alone, this could and probably would have happened even without him here, just as it has at other clubs, I personally think Wenger gets too much credit for that, he's done well out of it, very well and with little or no risk to himself, so his efforts weren't selfless.

[GP]

Stop all moderation and let the lunatics run the asylum I say.

They've all escaped. The wardens are just having a kickabout by themselves.

[Özim]

Clough.


And he ended up taking Forest down.

You're spot on and you can see what happened with Forest, a manager being in charge too long loses his edge but still believes his way is the right way to the detriment of the club. That's very rare, but it has happened and we're seeing it again this time at Arsenal.

[Letters]

I have had a handful of posts deleted in the last few months, because of off colour remarks and humour

None of which in my view were justified, i don't think anyone on here is what i'd call thin skinned.

I did delete a post recently, was that you? It was about the plane crash which killed that football team, I just thought it was a bit soon and tasteless.
And, for balance, I should say I made a joke in the Olympics which was a bit off colour - someone said something about it so I deleted my own post.
I don't think this place should be a free-for-all but I personally think we let a lot go. And as Maccy says, there are occasions where stuff posted online gets people in trouble - the incident he mentioned I believe the police got involved and stuff can end up in the press. This is a very low profile site so I accept that's unlikely but there should still be a line.

[Niall_Quinn]

What gets me about this place is the attempt to police things that are said, not even the Wenger discussion as that's completely anodyne anyway

And to be fair on Letters this tends to be more Macca than him, the need to delete things that might be seen as a little edgy

We are all adults on this site and we all know the difference between hyperbole and genuine sentiment.

There is scum out there that wouldn't think twice about zapping the DNS of a little site like this, just because they can. You have to be very careful what you say these days, in this free country. I sympathise to a degree with anyone trying to run a forum for open debate. No such thing in this country, except in dark corners like times we thought were in the past.

That said, I'll never play along with limited speech. Speech goes with choice. I can't get a megaphone and shout into a letterbox because that's abusive, disturbing the peace and invading privacy. But I should be able to post whatever the fuck I want on a forum that people have a choice to view or not.

[Niall_Quinn]

You are pettifogging, the issue is not whether he's the second coming or something like that....the issue is whether the club has improved and grown bigger as a result of him being the manager than the position it was in in 1996. No-one is stating that he hasn't massively outstayed his welcome or that he hasn't come close to emulating what he did in the first half of his arsenal managerial career, but we are an incredibly well run club and Wenger is part of that even as a football manager he is massively lacking.
I'd like him to move on to give a younger, more ambitious and more innovative man a chance to move the team forward, but there is absolutely no question that this club is a very attractive prospect for any manager and Wenger takes responsibility for that as much as he takes responsibility for our inability to challenge for major honours.

That's a good word. I'm going to use that today.

[Letters]

You're spot on and you can see what happened with Forest, a manager being in charge too long loses his edge but still believes his way is the right way to the detriment of the club. That's very rare, but it has happened and we're seeing it again this time at Arsenal.

Yes, but all Wenger's done is taken us from 1st to 4th. We've got a great stadium, a huge global fanbase, a great squad, money in the bank. We are very well placed for a new manager coming in. We do need to move on from Wenger, I hoped the new players he was buying could push us on, it does seem that Wenger is the limiting factor. But credit where it's due for what he's achieved, where he's taken us and the state he's leaving us in wouldn't kill you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I did delete a post recently, was that you? It was about the plane crash which killed that football team, I just thought it was a bit soon and tasteless.
And, for balance, I should say I made a joke in the Olympics which was a bit off colour - someone said something about it so I deleted my own post.
I don't think this place should be a free-for-all but I personally think we let a lot go. And as Maccy says, there are occasions where stuff posted online gets people in trouble - the incident he mentioned I believe the police got involved and stuff can end up in the press. This is a very low profile site so I accept that's unlikely but there should still be a line.

The line is that which can get you in trouble with the police

I don't think anything I said came even close to approaching that line, and most of the people here are old lags I don't think there is a single individual here who would left to their own devices end up saying things that end up with this place under the legal microscope.

The last remark of mine that got deleted was making fun of Islam, now making fun of any religion is something I take not only as a right but a responsibility especially with daft laws against Religious intolerance. It also needs to be made clear that there is a clear distinction between mocking a religion and mocking or being abusive to individual believers.

For instance I don't take any of our back and forth in regards to Christianity as abusive and I don't think you do either.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's a good word. I'm going to use that today.

It is a good word

[Niall_Quinn]

I did delete a post recently, was that you? It was about the plane crash which killed that football team, I just thought it was a bit soon and tasteless.
And, for balance, I should say I made a joke in the Olympics which was a bit off colour - someone said something about it so I deleted my own post.
I don't think this place should be a free-for-all but I personally think we let a lot go. And as Maccy says, there are occasions where stuff posted online gets people in trouble - the incident he mentioned I believe the police got involved and stuff can end up in the press. This is a very low profile site so I accept that's unlikely but there should still be a line.

Because the families of that football team tune in here regularly. That kind of censorship is pure shit. YOUR judgement of taste imposed as a rule. It's not for you to decide and it never will be. But you have the tools to simulate having the right I guess.

All told though, I agree that most stuff is let go. The few posters on here know each other well enough, they know what's real and what's a lark.

Where's Kano btw? Another one missing in action.

Can I have my Niall_Quinn name back now? The Cripps thing is a bit dull and only snagged a few fish. Somehow people have figured out it's really me.

[Özim]

Yes, but all Wenger's done is taken us from 1st to 4th. We've got a great stadium, a huge global fanbase, a great squad, money in the bank. We are very well placed for a new manager coming in. We do need to move on from Wenger, I hoped the new players he was buying could push us on, it does seem that Wenger is the limiting factor. But credit where it's due for what he's achieved, where he's taken us and the state he's leaving us in wouldn't kill you.

We do have that, but as mentioned before I don't attribute all of that to Wenger alone, he seems to get all the credit when in fact he didn't really risk anything himself to achieve much of this, he's played his part but so have many others who never get any credit and who probably put far more on the line than him, he was and always has been a handsomely paid employee, what did he have to lose?

Yes we're a bigger club with more money, I don't personally believe we're all setup for a new manager however, this club is too much about one man and this will mean when things change we'll go through a transitional period where we'll probably end up lower than we are through no fault of the next manager, coming into a club where someone has been in charge for 20 years is very hard, there's a lot to change including mentality which doesn't happen overnight.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The Cripps thing is a bit dull and only snagged a few fish. Somehow people have figured out it's really me.

How on earth did they manage to deduce that

[Letters]

Because the families of that football team tune in here regularly. That kind of censorship is pure shit. YOUR judgement of taste imposed as a rule. It's not for you to decide and it never will be. But you have the tools to simulate having the right I guess.
Well, either this place is moderated or it isn't. If it is then it is for me, and the other mods, to decide. You might disagree with me and that's fine, but unless it's a completely unmoderated forum someone has to do it. :shrug:
I don't have to know people personally or worry about their relatives reading comments in order to think things offensive. As I said in the Olympics I made a joke which a couple of people thought was over the line - those people didn't know anyone I mentioned personally either but fine, I took their comments on board and deleted the post. Democracy doesn't work as we found out last year so this place is a benevolent dictatorship which I think we can all agree is the best form of government.

Changed your name back.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My response to either we have mods or we don't

Is there need for mods

No one here is going to earnestly call for violence to be done to another user, no one will publish personal details of another user, and no one will use this as their alternative to deep web activities.

[Power n Glory]

I know for a fact that people left because of him.

The post count isn't anywhere near enough to make this a good site, we definitely need new people. My feeling is that we're not going to suddenly see a resurgence I don't think we've done anything wrong though, the whole concept of messageboards is less popular than it used to be, people have moved on to chatting about things on FB and in other ways. I couldn't work out if you were accusing me of discouraging discussion, I don't see how I've ever done that.

Someone that hasn't posted in a while engages with a new thread and you start wumming straight away because of some personal beef or whatever.

[Power n Glory]

My response to either we have mods or we don't

Is there need for mods

No one here is going to earnestly call for violence to be done to another user, no one will publish personal details of another user, and no one will use this as their alternative to deep web activities.

The sites not growing and unlikely to grow if that's the attitude.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Someone that hasn't posted in a while engages with a new thread and you start wumming straight away because of some personal beef or whatever.

This is an Arsenal message board not a support group, there are no safe spaces here

Or at least there bloody well shouldn't be

I think in all seriousness the mockery is what makes this place worth while, we know that this place isn't thriving and 95% of the reason why is total apathy towards the club and the manager.

You must get bored of having the same discussions week after week, month after month, year after year and whether this place is too restrictive to some or too hostile to others is rather peripheral to that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The sites not growing and unlikely to grow if that's the attitude.

What attitude that this place should be a market place of open and free exchange, admin and mods on every discussion group i've ever belonged to just doesn't work because there is not a single interpretation on where freedom of speech should be limited.

[mastermind84]

Wenger recently corrected that statement about Xhaka being a box to box player.

http://www.squawka.com/news/wenger-xhaka-is-more-a-deep-playmaker-than-a-box-to-box-midfielder/836501

I don't see that in his game anyway. He's not mobile enough for that role. We just bought the wrong sort of player. He wasn't the sort of midfielder we needed and now we're scrambling around trying to find the right player combination to compliment him. It's a huge waste of money. Not good enough on the ball to protect it and recycle possession. Too reckless to protect the back four and pretty poor at defending anyway. A decent long pass but we can hardly take advantage of it because we usually play against a packed defence. I have no idea what we were thinking.

Too early to judge Perez. He has quality and needs more games to really judge.

the best teams in Europe have over the last few years registas like Xhaka.

He is exactly the sort of player we need. The problem is we have the wrong manager to use him.

Good article on Xhaka's positioning and him getting Wenger'd

http://first-11.net/2017/01/arsenals-systematic-issues-are-holding-back-granit-xhaka/



Arsène Wenger prefers a dynamic midfield which suits Francis Coquelin and has utilised Xhaka to play the 8 role without the ball and the 6 role in possession, which leaves him unable to fulfil his full potential. The 8 is not suitable for a regista of Xhaka’s calibre: it takes him out of his depth, asking him to press extensively and ask him to support offensive phases. Xhaka now initiates the first counter press, and if it is bypassed is caught chasing back, trailing behind the play, a situation which should not occur for a player who should maintain the 6 role throughout.

[Power n Glory]

This is an Arsenal message board not a support group, there are no safe spaces here

Or at least there bloody well shouldn't be

I think in all seriousness the mockery is what makes this place worth while, we know that this place isn't thriving and 95% of the reason why is total apathy towards the club and the manager.

You must get bored of having the same discussions week after week, month after month, year after year and whether this place is too restrictive to some or too hostile to others is rather peripheral to that.

Exactly. An Arsenal message board. What you're talking about has zero to do with football and the same goes for Letters campaign to hound out posters. This thread is something new. To a degree at least. You drawing up very old beefs about Zim's stance on Wenger is what's boring. People have heard it before. It's be done and dusted so I don't see the point in dragging it up every time he appears.

[Letters]

We do have that, but as mentioned before I don't attribute all of that to Wenger alone, he seems to get all the credit when in fact he didn't really risk anything himself to achieve much of this, he's played his part but so have many others who never get any credit and who probably put far more on the line than him, he was and always has been a handsomely paid employee, what did he have to lose?

Yes we're a bigger club with more money, I don't personally believe we're all setup for a new manager however, this club is too much about one man and this will mean when things change we'll go through a transitional period where we'll probably end up lower than we are through no fault of the next manager, coming into a club where someone has been in charge for 20 years is very hard, there's a lot to change including mentality which doesn't happen overnight.

This is where it all gets a bit weird and personal with you and Wenger. You have French blood in you so what, is he your dad but he abandoned your mum when you were a baby and never saw you or something?
You don't attribute Arsenal's successes under Wenger to him alone, but you do seem to think our failings are entirely his fault? You can't have it both ways. The buck stops with the manager. He's part of a team, of course, but the manager is responsible for a club's success or failure, it's always the manager who gets sacked when things go wrong, no-one else. And before you say that Wenger hasn't been sacked for his failures, Wenger has always delivered what the board have required. I don't see what he had to risk has to do with anything. And while I'm talking about the board, although a manger is responsible for our success or lack thereof, it's the board's job to hold the manage accountable of he does fail. Ours don't because to them he is achieving success as they define it, and it suits them that he pretty much runs the show. And that is where I agree Wenger is hard to replace because he's not just a football manager, he's been allowed to take far too much control and you have to blame the board for that, they are his bosses after all.

Overall though I think he'll leave us in a much better place than he found us. I just hope he doesn't "do a Clough" and stay far too long and things start to go seriously downhill.

[Letters]

Someone that hasn't posted in a while engages with a new thread and you start wumming straight away because of some personal beef or whatever.

I had a minor WUM, Zim can take it. He didn't run away, he's a big boy. I have since engaged in the debate. :shrug:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Exactly. An Arsenal message board. What you're talking about has zero to do with football and the same goes for Letters campaign to hound out posters. This thread is something new. To a degree at least. You drawing up very old beefs about Zim's stance on Wenger is what's boring. People have heard it before. It's be done and dusted so I don't see the point in dragging it up every time he appears.

But still this does come back to my original point that, if there was something new, original or interesting to discuss Arsenal there probably wouldn't be this kind of thing in the first place.

Zim doesn't refrain from coming here because he stand the heat, he refrains from coming here because he's bored of the same old, same old with Arsenal FC. And that's one of the few things i can find some measure of agreement with him on.

[Letters]

Letters campaign to hound out posters.
:lol:
If I wanted to "hound people out" I'd just ban them. Do grow up.

[LDG]

I had a minor WUM, Zim can take it. He didn't run away, he's a big boy. I have since engaged in the debate. :shrug:

Major WUM.

Ground control.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, either this place is moderated or it isn't. If it is then it is for me, and the other mods, to decide. You might disagree with me and that's fine, but unless it's a completely unmoderated forum someone has to do it. :shrug:
I don't have to know people personally or worry about their relatives reading comments in order to think things offensive. As I said in the Olympics I made a joke which a couple of people thought was over the line - those people didn't know anyone I mentioned personally either but fine, I took their comments on board and deleted the post. Democracy doesn't work as we found out last year so this place is a benevolent dictatorship which I think we can all agree is the best form of government.

Changed your name back.

Thanks.

My point is, it's not for you to decide what's tasteful. Sure thing, if somebody posts something that might cause the forum owners grief in terms of the law or unwarranted adverse publicity you have a right to protect your property. But judging when a joke is "too soon" hardly falls into that category. In fact if it was too soon then you imply it wasn't beyond the pale anyway and could be acceptable at some future date.

[Niall_Quinn]

My response to either we have mods or we don't

Is there need for mods

No one here is going to earnestly call for violence to be done to another user, no one will publish personal details of another user, and no one will use this as their alternative to deep web activities.

Agreed :ninja:

:getcoat:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Do something useful and make a formal apology to Cripps. The Real Cripps. :lol: NQ is doing a bad impersonation.

This formal apology.

Would I have to do it with a straight face?

[selassie]

the best teams in Europe have over the last few years registas like Xhaka.

He is exactly the sort of player we need. The problem is we have the wrong manager to use him.

Good article on Xhaka's positioning and him getting Wenger'd

http://first-11.net/2017/01/arsenals-systematic-issues-are-holding-back-granit-xhaka/

Either way, Wenger has wasted yet more money trying to fit circles into squares, he can't help but try and reinvent the wheel, everybody says Xhaka is a deep lying playmaker, Wenger says he's not and tries converting him into a mobile box to box Midfielder. It's all a load of shite, Wenger should have just tried to upgrade on Santi in the summer, we needed a technical midfielder who is mobile, yeah maybe Jack in the future...not now as he's constantly crocked at ARSENAL.

Wenger found a solution, Santi and Coq, upgrade on them, don't try and reinvent the wheel.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I am just stating the things on here that personally aggravate me. It's your forum you can do what you like, my suggestion is don't try and pre-empt people getting offended.

The Big Four Forum ended up on the front page of Sunday newspapers with one of its members on the cover, taken to court and prosecuted.

We don't remove offensive posts, but we will remove those that risk the same thing happening here.

That said, I can't remember the last time I removed a post.

[Power n Glory]

the best teams in Europe have over the last few years registas like Xhaka.

He is exactly the sort of player we need. The problem is we have the wrong manager to use him.

Good article on Xhaka's positioning and him getting Wenger'd

http://first-11.net/2017/01/arsenals-systematic-issues-are-holding-back-granit-xhaka/

I've seen a few articles about this online and I agree that we're probably not getting the best out of him. The regista/deep laying playmaker is nothing new. I just think Xhaka isn't a very good one. Play Pirlo, Xavi, or Xabi Alonso in this role and they wouldn't look this average. Also, it's not as if we've never seen how a deep laying playmaker can operate in this system. Cazorla's new role as CM is what we should have been looking for. Cesc is a deep laying playmaker but was coached badly here at Arsenal and played in a number 10 position because of Wenger's obsession with goals. Same goes for Rosicky who should have been playing there as soon as we signed him.

We've got a long running history of Wenger playing talented guys out of position but for guys like Cesc, Rosicky and Cazorla, despite how they were told to play, they never looked average. That's the problem I have with Xhaka and he's going to have to improve his game. Difficult under current circumstances but I don't expect to see the heavy touches and ball getting poached from under his feet when pressured.

[Marc Overmars]

Anyone have a link to the Big Four scandal? Couldn't find it on Google.

Fancy a bit of light reading before I leave the office.

[Özim]

This is where it all gets a bit weird and personal with you and Wenger. You have French blood in you so what, is he your dad but he abandoned your mum when you were a baby and never saw you or something?
You don't attribute Arsenal's successes under Wenger to him alone, but you do seem to think our failings are entirely his fault? You can't have it both ways. The buck stops with the manager. He's part of a team, of course, but the manager is responsible for a club's success or failure, it's always the manager who gets sacked when things go wrong, no-one else. And before you say that Wenger hasn't been sacked for his failures, Wenger has always delivered what the board have required. I don't see what he had to risk has to do with anything. And while I'm talking about the board, although a manger is responsible for our success or lack thereof, it's the board's job to hold the manage accountable of he does fail. Ours don't because to them he is achieving success as they define it, and it suits them that he pretty much runs the show. And that is where I agree Wenger is hard to replace because he's not just a football manager, he's been allowed to take far too much control and you have to blame the board for that, they are his bosses after all.

Overall though I think he'll leave us in a much better place than he found us. I just hope he doesn't "do a Clough" and stay far too long and things start to go seriously downhill.

lol

No I blame the owner/board for being so indifferent about success and being mainly really interested in money and having no real interest in football, sadly that isn't going to change until the owner chooses to sell up.

The manager however I blame for the failings on the pitch (this has been going on for years), he doesn't sign the right players, the style of play is woeful, he never learns a thing and his tactics and subs are rubbish. In the end I care about what happens on the pitch and he's the one to blame for that. Sure the owner/board should have got rid of him, but in the end ambition also comes from a manager, if he really wanted to be a sucess he'd do more to achieve it. He's too principled and stuck in his ways and too interested in finances to do a good enough job.

Yes he's been part and parcel of the sucess and boy did he get lauded when we had success, the board etc never got praised, so likewise now he has to take his failings on the chin, which incidentally he doesn't seem to do very well, whenever people question him he get very defensive and comes out with stuff like the 20,000 subsitutions comment.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't recall this and can find literally nothing about it on google

That's not me saying i disbelieve you because three/four seperate people have mentioned this now

But you've left me something damnably intriguing in the form of nothing but breadcrumb trails

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Anyone have a link to the Big Four scandal? Couldn't find it on Google.

Fancy a bit of light reading before I leave the office.

I thought it couldn't just me who gets bitten by the old morbid curiousity bug

[selassie]

Overall though I think he'll leave us in a much better place than he found us. I just hope he doesn't "do a Clough" and stay far too long and things start to go seriously downhill.

At the moment we aren't in great shape and Wenger is totally responsible for that. Our two best players are dragging their feet over contract negotiations and it's looking like they want out. We don't look any closer to being a title challenging team despite our manager spending vast amounts of money over the summer, in fact I'd say we look the weakest out of the top 6 sides based on current form. In addition to Sanchez & Ozil we have a number of decent squad players who are yet to extend their contracts, if you include Sanchez & Ozil, we could have up to 5 players this summer who we are uncertain of their future....these players are Wilshere, Gibbs, Ox aswell as our two stars.

Wenger's future is up in the air too...I certainly don't want him to extend...if he doesn't plan on doing so I'd much prefer if he came out with it so we can plan accordingly...the last thing we need is a summer of discontent where Wenger leaves along with our best players.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't recall this and can find literally nothing about it on google

That's not me saying i disbelieve you because three/four seperate people have mentioned this now

But you've left me something damnably intriguing in the form of nothing but breadcrumb trails

I remember stumbling across it a few years ago. Funny as fuck, mainly because the people on that forum were idiots.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I remember stumbling across it a few years ago. Funny as fuck, mainly because the people on that forum were idiots.

So they wouldn't let you join either?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I remember stumbling across it a few years ago. Funny as fuck, mainly because the people on that forum were idiots.

was the prosecution justified? or was it little girl syndrome?

[Marc Overmars]

was the prosecution justified? or was it little girl syndrome?

Justified, I think.

What that guy wrote is on another level to anything potentially offensive said on here.

[Power n Glory]

Either way, Wenger has wasted yet more money trying to fit circles into squares, he can't help but try and reinvent the wheel, everybody says Xhaka is a deep lying playmaker, Wenger says he's not and tries converting him into a mobile box to box Midfielder. It's all a load of shite, Wenger should have just tried to upgrade on Santi in the summer, we needed a technical midfielder who is mobile, yeah maybe Jack in the future...not now as he's constantly crocked at ARSENAL.

Wenger found a solution, Santi and Coq, upgrade on them, don't try and reinvent the wheel.

Exactly. It goes back to buying more playmakers again which doesn't actually solve defensive issues or even result in us scoring more goals.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Justified, I think.

What that guy wrote is on another level to anything potentially offensive said on here.

:crying: I try my best damn it

[Özim]

Exactly. It goes back to buying more playmakers again which doesn't actually solve defensive issues or even result in us scoring more goals.

Wenger is obsessed with midfield playmakers, wouldn't do him any harm to try and create some balance in the squad, not everyone has to be able to attack, some people can sit and protect the defence as well.

[mastermind84]

Either way, Wenger has wasted yet more money trying to fit circles into squares, he can't help but try and reinvent the wheel, everybody says Xhaka is a deep lying playmaker, Wenger says he's not and tries converting him into a mobile box to box Midfielder. It's all a load of shite, Wenger should have just tried to upgrade on Santi in the summer, we needed a technical midfielder who is mobile, yeah maybe Jack in the future...not now as he's constantly crocked at ARSENAL.

Wenger found a solution, Santi and Coq, upgrade on them, don't try and reinvent the wheel.

he did upgrade on Santi. Xhaka is that, the problem is Wenger's an old fool.

Santi and Coq were never going to win us a title. Coquelin is too limited.





I've seen a few articles about this online and I agree that we're probably not getting the best out of him. The regista/deep laying playmaker is nothing new. I just think Xhaka isn't a very good one. Play Pirlo, Xavi, or Xabi Alonso in this role and they wouldn't look this average. Also, it's not as if we've never seen how a deep laying playmaker can operate in this system. Cazorla's new role as CM is what we should have been looking for. Cesc is a deep laying playmaker but was coached badly here at Arsenal and played in a number 10 position because of Wenger's obsession with goals. Same goes for Rosicky who should have been playing there as soon as we signed him.

We've got a long running history of Wenger playing talented guys out of position but for guys like Cesc, Rosicky and Cazorla, despite how they were told to play, they never looked average. That's the problem I have with Xhaka and he's going to have to improve his game. Difficult under current circumstances but I don't expect to see the heavy touches and ball getting poached from under his feet when pressured.
his data shows he is one of the best, and even in his play this season he has been one of the best in England.

And yes, Pirlo, Xabi, and Xavi would not look good in this system. None of those guys have good mobility either, and the main issue with Xhaka is he is defending in too much space. We also do not provide him outlets.

You stay underrating the systemic problems of this team. Its weird too because you want Wenger out.

[Power n Glory]

he did upgrade on Santi. Xhaka is that, the problem is Wenger's an old fool.

Santi and Coq were never going to win us a title. Coquelin is too limited.





his data shows he is one of the best, and even in his play this season he has been one of the best in England.

And yes, Pirlo, Xabi, and Xavi would not look good in this system. None of those guys have good mobility either, and the main issue with Xhaka is he is defending in too much space. We also do not provide him outlets.

You stay underrating the systemic problems of this team. Its weird too because you want Wenger out.

No way is an upgrade on Santi. He's super one footed for starters and gets caught in possession too easily. If Santi and Coquelin aren't going to win us the title we have zero chance with Xhaka and Coquelin or any other combination that doesn't involve Santi for that matter.

You're very about Pirlo, Xavi and Alonso as well. There intelligence makes up for their lack of mobility and when I say mobility, I more also include movement in tight spaces. I can't see them getting caught in possession the way Xhaka does. The data was misleading and belive we bought the guy and paid that much based on stats. Hence why Wenger can come out with such statements as a box to box player. I believe he had no clue on who he was signing so he might not be all at fault for this signing. You're doing way too much to defend slackness. Regardless of what system is being played, there should be a standard. As said, years of players like Cesc and Rosicky not being utilised properly under Wenger never lead me to question their ability as players. Certainly not their awareness, first touch or play making ability.

[Özim]

The best players don't get caught in posession very often (just watch how they always manage to get the ball away(, when a player gets caught in possesion a lot it suggests they lack a footballing brain IMO.

Xhaka has done nothing to prove he is or has the potential to be top class IMO, I was sceptical about this signing, I'm even more sceptical now.

[selassie]

he did upgrade on Santi. Xhaka is that, the problem is Wenger's an old fool.

Santi and Coq were never going to win us a title. Coquelin is too limited.





his data shows he is one of the best, and even in his play this season he has been one of the best in England.

And yes, Pirlo, Xabi, and Xavi would not look good in this system. None of those guys have good mobility either, and the main issue with Xhaka is he is defending in too much space. We also do not provide him outlets.

You stay underrating the systemic problems of this team. Its weird too because you want Wenger out.

Xhaka isn't an upgrade on Santi, they are different players and besides Xhaka doesn't even get around the pitch to control central midfield like Santi has done over the past few years. Xhaka is a specialist player...his specific role is deep lying playmaker, we don't need him.

I agree that we won't win the league with Santi and Coq as our midfield pairing but they are our best ones, they need to be upgraded upon. An upgrade on Coq IMO was Kante, he was available in the Summer and we weren't interested. Coq's role within the team is to break up play, cover ground and distribute the ball, that's all we really need him for, his only real limitation is his passing.

I don't care about Pirlo, Xabi and Xavi, it's not what we need and never have done...we need mobile CM's that cover ground, break up play and can pass a ball. Xhaka is a Wenger vanity signing, he's a luxury player, yes Xhaka is highly technically...but he is not mobile and can't tackle, without Coq we have nobody in Central Midfield that can tackle...it's ludicrous.

I do want Wenger out and have done so for about 4 seasons now!

[fakeyank]

Justified, I think.

What that guy wrote is on another level to anything potentially offensive said on here.

News article link? Or can someone post what he said. I am curious now. :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

News article link? Or can someone post what he said. I am curious now. :(

Yep so am I as it happens

Can find literally nothing about it with Google, even though I've tried about a dozen search variations

[mastermind84]

You're very about Pirlo, Xavi and Alonso as well. There intelligence makes up for their lack of mobility and when I say mobility,

in their systems they never have to defend in as much space as Xhaka does. Their managers protect them. Our manage does not. They stay deep and play the #6 position, Wenger wants Xhaka to be a #6 and a #8 (box to box).

Its the system.


The best players don't get caught in posession very often (just watch how they always manage to get the ball away(, when a player gets caught in possesion a lot it suggests they lack a footballing brain IMO.

Xhaka has done nothing to prove he is or has the potential to be top class IMO, I was sceptical about this signing, I'm even more sceptical now.
in our system, he has no outlets. He ha shown he can by pass the press through his passing but you cant do too much when there are no options.

All these other players you all are naming would struggle here too because of no help.



Xhaka isn't an upgrade on Santi, they are different players and besides Xhaka doesn't even get around the pitch to control central midfield like Santi has done over the past few years. Xhaka is a specialist player...his specific role is deep lying playmaker, we don't need him.

I agree that we won't win the league with Santi and Coq as our midfield pairing but they are our best ones, they need to be upgraded upon. An upgrade on Coq IMO was Kante, he was available in the Summer and we weren't interested. Coq's role within the team is to break up play, cover ground and distribute the ball, that's all we really need him for, his only real limitation is his passing.

I don't care about Pirlo, Xabi and Xavi, it's not what we need and never have done...we need mobile CM's that cover ground, break up play and can pass a ball. Xhaka is a Wenger vanity signing, he's a luxury player, yes Xhaka is highly technically...but he is not mobile and can't tackle, without Coq we have nobody in Central Midfield that can tackle...it's ludicrous.

I do want Wenger out and have done so for about 4 seasons now!

I know they are different players. Xhaka is a DLP, a regista, while Santi plays further up the pitch.

We need that type of player because we have problems with the build up. That is true when Santi is healthy. Against the best midfields, we create eff all in possession. To have someone to play the ball vertical and spot runners from deep is vital. Santi isnt like that and will never be. Thats Xhaka

Like i said before, I feel most of you want Wenger out but at the same time speak as if his tactics make sense and we need to buy players to fit his tactics. It doesnt make sense.

[Power n Glory]

You stay underrating the systemic problems of this team. Its weird too because you want Wenger out.

It doesn't work like that. Just because I want Wenger out doesn't mean accountability goes out the window. I've been saying the same thing to NQ on another thread. We have systematic problems; that's well known on here, but that doesn't mean every fault gets swept under Wenger's door. I don't care if the the decided to play Sanchez as wingback, regardless of how alien that position is to him, I don't expect to see his work rate drop, his first touch disappear, his dribbling skills going out the window and so on. He may be horrible at defending because he's playing in a terrible system, but the core of his abilities will still shine through regardless of where he plays. I'm not seeing that with Xhaka.

At the very least, we should be bossing the midfield, especially against a team like Preston. No excuses. Even if we can't make great use of his playmaking ability because he's not getting the ball where he likes it, his chance creation stat should suffer at best, not his first touch and passing accuracy of all things. I'd expect plenty of midfield dominance and possession without much bite like we're used to seeing. That's not the case these days. We can't even control a midfield and it's been this way since losing Cesc and Nasri. That Ramsey, Wilshere, Arteta axis was the start of a disaster where we had serious problems just stringing together an attack.

In fact, didn't you say Xhaka would be an upgrade on Arteta? It's not as if he's being told to do something drastically different from Arteta. We weren't playing with Coquelin in the midfield so you can't put the blame on his limitations either. I'm just not seeing the point in this signing and it's down to Xhaka to sort his game out. I'm not for switching to a system that plays to his ability as playmaker when we bought Ozil for that role. You already know my thoughts on him and I find it crazy that after all the protests about him being the best number 10 in the world, the chances he creates..etc..I'm seeing blogs suggesting we turn him into a forward. Such tinkering ideas is why I created that Ozil thread in the first place. How many playmakers do we need in this team? Heck, I honestly think Alexis's goal and creative output trumps them all and we should be building off that if anything.

[Power n Glory]

We need that type of player because we have problems with the build up. That is true when Santi is healthy. Against the best midfields, we create eff all in possession. To have someone to play the ball vertical and spot runners from deep is vital. Santi isnt like that and will never be. Thats Xhaka



https://youtu.be/5wbOs4Ukdwc

Nope, look at Xhaka's positioning from the kick off and how he almost loses the ball from a heavy touch. There is nothing in our game that stops him from dropping deep to play the ball. Santi does it all the time.

[mastermind84]

There is nothing in our game that stops him from dropping deep to play the ball.

yes there is, Wenger asks our midfields to play higher up because he wants to press hgher up to win the ball back.

Look at where Xhaka is standing after he almost lost the ball. He never retreats from there. Thats the double pivot.

Like I said before, you all want Wenger out yet don't want our tactics to change. Its strange.

The article I posted above shows that. Thats what the double pivot is.

[Power n Glory]

yes there is, Wenger asks our midfields to play higher up because he wants to press hgher up to win the ball back.

Look at where Xhaka is standing after he almost lost the ball. He never retreats from there. Thats the double pivot.

Like I said before, you all want Wenger out yet don't want our tactics to change. Its strange.

The article I posted above shows that. Thats what the double pivot is.

Now you're being purposely evasive. Is the double pivot the reason why he takes a heavy touch? Would playing him deeper give him way more time and space for heavy touches? Was that the case in Germany? If so, we're talking about adapting our tactics to cover the flaws of limited player. I don't think Xhaka has shown or earned the right for the team to be built around him if he can't do the basics.

I'm not against Wenger changing tactics. As said, we should build around Alexis being a false 9, but not around someone that isn't that good offensively and has to be protected on defense. When Cesc was playing in the wrong 4-4-2 system, his defensive weaknesses were shown up but it was clear that he could make a pass and have the midfield ticking.

[AFC Leveller]

https://www.facebook.com/531603920185716/videos/1424203554259077/

[Letters]

This formal apology.

Would I have to do it with a straight face?

A gay face would also be acceptable. Arguably more appropriate for Cripps.

[GP]

A gay face would also be acceptable. Arguably more appropriate for Cripps.

So's your face

[Letters]

At the moment we aren't in great shape and Wenger is totally responsible for that.
We finished 2nd last year, it was the first season in 3 where we didn't win a trophy of some sort and we have one of the best squads in the country and money in the bank to improve it. It's not that bad. :shrug:
Agree about contract uncertainties though, that does need sorting out.

[Letters]

Also...found it!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/troll-behind-horrific-online-hatred-877225

The Chemical Tavern was the site that Marc (who isn't the person mentioned in this article although he is referenced, his username at one point was Mandela) and others set up.

[Goonermerree]

We finished 2nd last year, it was the first season in 3 where we didn't win a trophy of some sort and we have one of the best squads in the country and money in the bank to improve it. It's not that bad. :shrug:
Agree about contract uncertainties though, that does need sorting out.

If we'd bought in January to cover injuries, I think we would have won the league. With all of the big teams failing, it was ours for the taking, the one year we could have won it. Yes we finished second, in a very odd season, and we were 10 points behind Leicester!!

[Letters]

If we'd bought in January to cover injuries, I think we would have won the league. With all of the big teams failing, it was ours for the taking, the one year we could have won it. Yes we finished second, in a very odd season, and we were 10 points behind Leicester!!

There's always a glass half empty and glass half full way of looking at things. I tend to do the latter. But we have a squad which should have won the league last year and should be challenging this. If people didn't think we were good enough to challenge then why moan about how things are going? And we've money in the bank and sponsorship deals and a global fanbase big enough to keep us at or near the top with good management. I don't think we're in bad shape.

[Goonermerree]

There's always a glass half empty and glass half full way of looking at things. I tend to do the latter. But we have a squad which should have won the league last year and should be challenging this. If people didn't think we were good enough to challenge then why moan about how things are going? And we've money in the bank and sponsorship deals and a global fanbase big enough to keep us at or near the top with good management. I don't think we're in bad shape.

If you think we should have won the league last year and should be challenging this year, how can you see that as good?

[Letters]

If you think we should have won the league last year and should be challenging this year, how can you see that as good?

I don't think that's good, but if you think we have a squad good enough to win the league then how can you not think we're in pretty good shape?
Wenger should have won us the league last year. He didn't and should be sacked. But he won't be leaving us in bad shape for the reasons I've outlined.

[Goonermerree]

I don't think that's good, but if you think we have a squad good enough to win the league then how can you not think we're in pretty good shape?
Wenger should have won us the league last year. He didn't and should be sacked. But he won't be leaving us in bad shape for the reasons I've outlined.

I actually said we could have won it if we had bought in January to cover injuries. We're not in bad shape financially, but we're a football club not a bank. We want to win things, not line Kranky's pockets every time we get top four.

[Özim]

We've blown our adavantage somewhat IMO. we had the big new stadium to raise more revenue than others, now Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool are all getting big new stadiums and that's advantage gone, we just haven't made the most of it.

I agree we had our chance last season and blew it big time, other top clubs really stuttered and the opportunity was there, but in the end we we left behind by mighty Leicester and that was our chance gone.

Now we have no chance, whilst I think we have some very good players, the balance isn't right and we are missing some key ingredients and I put the blame squarely at Arsene Wengers' door, he could have gone out and signed the right players in the summer but he chose to go for 3 players none of us would have really seen as solutions to our problems, in doing so he also wasted 90 million.

[Letters]

I actually said we could have won it if we had bought in January to cover injuries. We're not in bad shape financially, but we're a football club not a bank. We want to win things, not line Kranky's pockets every time we get top four.

We have money in the bank AND a squad capable of challenging for the title. We're not a bank but like it or not good finances are important to success in football (and don't "Leicester" at me, you know that was a one-off as they're showing this year).
Overall we're in good shape.

[Goonermerree]

We have money in the bank AND a squad capable of challenging for the title. We're not a bank but like it or not good finances are important to success in football (and don't "Leicester" at me, you know that was a one-off as they're showing this year).
Overall we're in good shape.

Why can't I Leicester at you, we could still have pipped them for the title had we not faded away as per. This squad isn't challenging for the title. I think we arguing the same thing.

[Goonermerree]

Any way, go easy on me, I have laryngitis and I can't type loud or fast!

[Letters]

Why can't I Leicester at you, we could still have pipped them for the title had we not faded away as per. This squad isn't challenging for the title. I think we arguing the same thing.

You can't Leicester at me to refute the idea that money and success in football are highly correlated. Leicester were a refreshing counter-example, they showed it's possible but they're showing this year it was a one-off.
This squad isn't challenging for the title, but IMO it's capable of doing so and should have won it last year. My overall point was and remains that overall we're in pretty good shape for any new manager.
Hope your throat gets better soon, it's good we have the internet so you can continue arguing with people without having to shout.

[selassie]

We finished 2nd last year, it was the first season in 3 where we didn't win a trophy of some sort and we have one of the best squads in the country and money in the bank to improve it. It's not that bad. :shrug:
Agree about contract uncertainties though, that does need sorting out.

Last season was a disaster, we finished a distant 2nd despite the fact we fared better than all of our traditional rivals who all had meltdowns, we still failed big time though.

Anyway..my point about the contracts of Ozil and Sanchez kind of go hand in hand with the state of our squad, if we lose them we're in big trouble IMO.

[Goonermerree]

You can't Leicester at me to refute the idea that money and success in football are highly correlated. Leicester were a refreshing counter-example, they showed it's possible but they're showing this year it was a one-off.
This squad isn't challenging for the title, but IMO it's capable of doing so and should have won it last year. My overall point was and remains that overall we're in pretty good shape for any new manager.
Hope your throat gets better soon, it's good we have the internet so you can continue arguing with people without having to shout.

About Leicester, of course, a freaky season and I never said otherwise. I agree with the highlighted part too. Like I said, we think the same things, dunno why we arguing about it really. STOP ARGUING WITH ME. That little shout felt good, I shouted it in my head. It's no good only being able to whisper!

[Letters]

We've blown our adavantage somewhat IMO. we had the big new stadium to raise more revenue than others, now Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool are all getting big new stadiums and that's advantage gone, we just haven't made the most of it.

I agree we had our chance last season and blew it big time, other top clubs really stuttered and the opportunity was there, but in the end we we left behind by mighty Leicester and that was our chance gone.

Now we have no chance, whilst I think we have some very good players, the balance isn't right and we are missing some key ingredients and I put the blame squarely at Arsene Wengers' door, he could have gone out and signed the right players in the summer but he chose to go for 3 players none of us would have really seen as solutions to our problems, in doing so he also wasted 90 million.
I actually agree with much of that. I think the stadium move was badly timed but you can only see that in retrospect, you can't blame anyone for that really. It happened just at the time when the billionaires were having the most effect in football and just as the finances of the stadium started to work for us rather than against the finances in football with TV and sponsorship deals and transfer fees had gone so mental that it's less of an advantage anyway. It had to be done though in my view, at times I think Wenger did well to keep us "up there" but the money excuse has gone now and while the two FA Cups were welcome after such a long trophy drought he's failed to push us on.

[Özim]

From what we know Wenger went for two strikers this summer, Vardy and Perez.

Vardy is an one season wonder and a total flop this season, so that would have been a disaster.

Perez has done OK, but let's face it isn't the answer to our problems up front either.

Now I know people will say who could have we got, well IMO if we were willing to pay up Lacazette who is 25 and has 16 goals in 21 games this season, Griezzmann would have been a hard one but had we gone in for a huge bid who knows, Cavani who has proven in the past he can score goals and is a very good player (though he missed some sitters against us), Aubameyang again he would have cost a lot but who knows if we'd put in a big bid, Icardi (fell out with the fans and seems to be doing well in Italy).

We chose the cheap options again and it will continue to cost us IMO, perhaps one marquee signing a one or two cheaper buys would be a better policy? I'm not happy with Wengers' policy in the transfer market to be honest, on the one hand he's always on the lookout for bargains (Vardy/Perez) and on the other when he does spend big he overspends on realtive unknowns like Mustafi and Xhaka, why won't he just bite the bullet and sign more established players and why does he wait so long to sign players, surely knowing price willl be higher later on in the transfer window?

I just don't get it, he always wants to be the one to discover top players at lower than market values, yet most of the time nowadays he totally fails to do so and doesn't learn.

[Goonermerree]

From what we know Wenger went for two strikers this summer, Vardy and Perez.

Vardy is an one season wonder and a total flop this season, so that would have been a disaster.

Perez has done OK, but let's face it isn't the answer to our problems up front either.

Now I know people will say who could have we got, well IMO if we were willing to pay up Lacazette who is 25 and has 16 goals in 21 games this season, Griezzmann would have been a hard one but had we gone in for a huge bid who knows, Cavani who has proven in the past he can score goals and is a very good player (though he missed some sitters against us), Aubameyang again he would have cost a lot but who knows if we'd put in a big bid, Icardi (fell out with the fans and seems to be doing well in Italy).

We chose the cheap options again and it will continue to cost us IMO, perhaps one marquee signing a one or two cheaper buys would be a better policy? I'm not happy with Wengers' policy in the transfer market to be honest, on the one hand he's always on the lookout for bargains (Vardy/Perez) and on the other when he does spend big he overspends on realtive unknowns like Mustafi and Xhaka, why won't he just bite the bullet and sign more established players and why does he wait so long to sign players, surely knowing price willl be higher later on in the transfer window?

I just don't get it, he always wants to be the one to discover top players at lower than market values, yet most of the time nowadays he totally fails to do so and doesn't learn.

:gp: Then he likes to play them out of position because it worked with Henry.

[Özim]

:gp: Then he likes to play them out of position because it worked with Henry.

Yup pretty much, he's an odd character, he has success moving a handful of players to new position then thinks to himself he can do it with anyone, but on the other side of the coin when things don't work he never ever seems to pick up on it and change.