Clichy has left. And Nasri in talks with Citeh.

[Flavs]

Yep been on the sports channels this morning, apparently Chlichy is already there having a medical before a £10mil move and Nasri is just beginning talks over a £22mil move.

Good or bad?

[dazthegooner]

Clichy good Nasri bad

[selassie]

Yep been on the sports channels this morning, apparently Chlichy is already there having a medical before a £10mil move and Nasri is just beginning talks over a £22mil move.

Good or bad?

Overall bad news because we won't be able to immediately sufficiently replace them for 32million.

Our first XI is going to be so weak come the first day of the season, Arsene has major major work to do in the market this summer.

P.S. I'm just trying to get my head around the fact we're selling two first teamers to a CL rival...it's absolute bonkers.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

If Cesc and Nasri/Clichygo, we are in a bit of a hole and I question why on earth we would let another team especially one of our so called rivals do it to us.

I was definitely preparing myself for Cescs departure and thinking we could slot Nas in the place left by him......not to be if reports are to be believed

however holes are to be gotten out of and we are collectively going to have have to work our tails off to get out of this one, but we can do it.......this time Wenger may not be having to work with a young team, more like a brand spanking new one

[Kano]

great prices, particularly for nasri.

clichy can f off and nasri has only shown 6 months to us so far. good luck to him doing the same with citehs defensive set up

[hymppi]

nasri will be a loss. i won't mourn over clichy, tho.
who'll take samir's spot if he leaves???

[GP]

Won't be particularly sad to see them go, especially Clichy.

Nasri seriously strengthens City though. He's better than anyone they have in midfield.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Eboue just hears he is to replace Nasri

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/may2009/8/7/image-13-for-arsenal-champions-league-training-gallery-239522417.jpg

[Letters]

Clichy good Nasri bad

This.

[Letters]

If Cesc and Nasri/Clichygo, we are in a bit of a hole and I question why on earth we would let another team especially one of our so called rivals do it to us.

How would you propose we stop it then?

[Marc Overmars]

Mixed feelings really. I believe we will be directly strengthening City but we at least we will get a bit of value for 2 wantaway players in their last year of contract. What we do with the money is the issue really, we're in talks with ox chamberlain now and you think he will probably cost whatever Clichy goes for, do we really need to spend big on kids?

[Flavs]

When wenger said there would be big changes this summer i didnt realise he meant selling all our best players and keeping the dross, at the press conference, which may not happen now, i want to hear he is ridding us of the shit as well not just the good stuff

[Özim]

Would be fine about Clichy, would not be fine about Nasri. Not only will we be losing one of our better players but who trusts Wenger to replace him adequately.

If we lose Cesc, Nasri and Clichy and don't get rid of Denilson and Bendtner it will have been another disastrous summer....so much for great spirit and togetherness!

[Marc Overmars]

When wenger said there would be big changes this summer i didnt realise he meant selling all our best players and keeping the dross, at the press conference, which may not happen now, i want to hear he is ridding us of the shit as well not just the good stuff

We are a selling club so it shouldn't come as much surprise.

[Flavs]

I wonder if Gareth Barry or Milner will be coming the other way as well

[GP]

I wonder if Gareth Barry or Milner will be coming the other way as well

Wash your fucking mouth out.

[Marc Overmars]

Barry. :lol:

I'd have Milner though to increase the GHEL quota.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

How would you propose we stop it then?

sorry Letters, I said I question it, sadly I don't have the answer!
I said in a previous post that I feel that a lot of clubs don't take us seriously - the top two/three do not see us as a threat and the ones under us know how to play us and expose our weaknesses.......

we need to man up in ebvery department both on and off the field.....and if we are to lose players we get their worth and we reinvest it back into the team. We are in the CL, just so we still have appeal but not magnatism - we need to show that we are serious about our status as a top team both at home in Europe - get rid of the wishy washy - shed ourselves of our dross and get in quality/battle tested replacements. Keep the youth policy in - but not rely on it as the only way - kids need role modals and maybe our current crop of mature players and their behaviour is not providing them with one - unless they are looking to learn how not to do things (however the management/board and not shining examples either) - shit they should be more like us - we're what it's all about - proud to be a Gooner

sorry Letters.....said I didn't have an answer but looks like I had at least something to say - whethe you agree is another thing

[Kano]

If we lose Cesc, Nasri and Clichy and don't get rid of Denilson and Bendtner it will have been another disastrous summer....so much for great spirit and togetherness!

i thought selling players involved clubs wanting to pay for them too?

people come online, turn on their tv, listen to talksport all day, getting every single minute piece of media info pumped into their head and then get upset when they dont see instant results from their club. the window only opens today and already the media have got 98% of fans by the nuts. its hilarious

[Marc Overmars]

City can blow us out of the water with any contract offer, so there's not much we can do about that really. I would say though that allowing a player to run his contract down to the final year should never be allowed to happen again. Gazidis touched on that at the AST meeting, he said we weren't perfect and can improve here.

If someone refuse to sign in advance, that means the writing is probably on the wall.

[LDG]

Lol at SAF if City get Nasri.

Outbid again.

[Özim]

Lol at SAF if City get Nasri.

Outbid again.
Yeah but he's already signed 3 players.

[Özim]

i thought selling players involved clubs wanting to pay for them too?

people come online, turn on their tv, listen to talksport all day, getting every single minute piece of media info pumped into their head and then get upset when they dont see instant results from their club. the window only opens today and already the media have got 98% of fans by the nuts. its hilarious
Yeah it does, unfortunately nobody wants them as they're cr*p, only people like Wenger are happy to keep them for years on end paying than huge amounts.

Unfortunately now we're stuck with them whilst our best players are looking for new pastures.

[LDG]

Yeah but he's already signed 3 players.

:rolleyes:

[Özim]

:rolleyes:
I can't help it if he doesn't believe in "waiting periods" and instead prefers to get his business done early so that he has a good chance of getting his targets.

[LDG]

I can't help it if he doesn't believe in "waiting periods" and instead prefers to get his business done early so that he has a good chance of getting his targets.

It was having a laugh dufus.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Im lost for words.

I wanted to have a cull and buy in some experienced new players, but Im not sure this was what I was expecting.

Clichy Im not particularly bothered about, but Nasri going to Citeh could be a huge blow for us, especially if we sell Cesc too.

WTF is goin on?!?! Arsene better have some quality players lined up to replace them or he'll be out of a job by January.

[Özim]

It was having a laugh dufus.
OK wasn't funny though, just so you know :lol:

[LDG]

OK wasn't funny though, just so you know :lol:

That's twice this morning.

I need a cold bath.

You're all a bunch of cunts <_<

[GP]

Lol at SAF if City get Nasri.

Outbid again.


:haha:

[LDG]

Lollers. :lol:

[IBK]

Whatever way you look at it, its quite depressing. OK we can say 'paper talk' all we like - but the fact is that there's no smoke without fire, and I don't think our reputation has been as low as it is currently since Wenger arrived. The reality is that Wenger is fighting to keep his best players - and this has a very 'end of era' feel to it.

[LDG]

Whatever way you look at it, its quite depressing. OK we can say 'paper talk' all we like - but the fact is that there's no smoke without fire, and I don't think our reputation has been as low as it is currently since Wenger arrived. The reality is that Wenger is fighting to keep his best players - and this has a very 'end of era' feel to it.

Hmmm.

Like when we got rid of all the invincibles??

Thing is. This current set up has won us fuck all, and we need a change. As we're obviously not changing the manager, we can only do one other thing, and that's change the players.

We've all wanted a more robust team capable of digging in, to go with the ebb and flow of our attacking play. If that means getting rid of i) a left back who slips up more times than Frank Spencer, ii) A mecenary, clearly in it for himself and iii) a player who doesn't want to play for us....then fuck it, it's what we have to do.

As long as we use that money to replenish the squad with players who have bottle fight and leadership, I'm not too fussed tbh.

But as nothing the fuck has happened yet, I'll wait until it does.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Whatever way you look at it, its quite depressing. OK we can say 'paper talk' all we like - but the fact is that there's no smoke without fire, and I don't think our reputation has been as low as it is currently since Wenger arrived. The reality is that Wenger is fighting to keep his best players - and this has a very 'end of era' feel to it.

Our rep is the least of your problems.
The ridiculous control panel on this forum which none of us have got to grips with yet, means we aren't making any name changes til Christmas.
On a serious note, if what is feared is true, I cannot see how shifting all our best players out will help us improve next season. In fact I think it will be an almighty challenge to hold on to 4th. Even if we buy in quality, there will be a significant bedding in period for those players and this is particularly so given the type of football Wenger has us play.

[IBK]

Hmmm.

Like when we got rid of all the invincibles??

Thing is. This current set up has won us fuck all, and we need a change. As we're obviously not changing the manager, we can only do one other thing, and that's change the players.

We've all wanted a more robust team capable of digging in, to go with the ebb and flow of our attacking play. If that means getting rid of i) a left back who slips up more times than Frank Spencer, ii) A mecenary, clearly in it for himself and iii) a player who doesn't want to play for us....then fuck it, it's what we have to do.

As long as we use that money to replenish the squad with players who have bottle fight and leadership, I'm not too fussed tbh.

But as nothing the fuck has happened yet, I'll wait until it does.

Well look what happened after the Invincibles...

Fair enough to wait and see - not like we have much choice. But I'm looking at a current picture that's wider than the merits of individual players. It can't be denied that there is the smell of something a bit rotten about the club. One thing that you can always depend on - and that is that agents/press whores can smell weakness like sharks smell blood - and that's what's going on with us ATM.

We talk about replacing players and systems as though its like buying a new car - but building new teams is both a difficult and a painstaking process. There's no way that the guts can be ripped out of our team and we can bounce back next season like nothing's happened. It took Wenger 5 years to realise that project youth had failed. Its not like he's going to roar back with the Invincibles Mk 11, and the smart money says that any replacements will be 'project' players rather than EPL seasoned superstars.

So sure, we wait. But for me the prognosis is not the most promising one.

[Letters]

I'll leave panicking till after the transfer window is closed although if Nasri and Cesc BOTH go then we're in trouble if we don't get good replacements.

[IBK]

I'll leave panicking till after the transfer window is closed although if Nasri and Cesc BOTH go then we're in trouble if we don't get good replacements.


Tell you what. Why don't we just shit down all transfer threads on the forum until the end of the transfer window? That way noone needs to opine and speculate, and we can just make factual comments on real situations. In fact, hell - why not suspend all threads on our likely league position until the final day of next season?

[LDG]

Well look what happened after the Invincibles...

Fair enough to wait and see - not like we have much choice. But I'm looking at a current picture that's wider than the merits of individual players. It can't be denied that there is the smell of something a bit rotten about the club. One thing that you can always depend on - and that is that agents/press whores can smell weakness like sharks smell blood - and that's what's going on with us ATM.

We talk about replacing players and systems as though its like buying a new car - but building new teams is both a difficult and a painstaking process. There's no way that the guts can be ripped out of our team and we can bounce back next season like nothing's happened. It took Wenger 5 years to realise that project youth had failed. Its not like he's going to roar back with the Invincibles Mk 11, and the smart money says that any replacements will be 'project' players rather than EPL seasoned superstars.

So sure, we wait. But for me the prognosis is not the most promising one.

Fing is.

After the invincibles, we moved to a big new shiny stadium, and it was obvious, as we have discussed so many times before, that the board and Vinger decided on a strategy of youth and prudence. You've agreed with it in the past, and I still believe it was the right thing to do.

So, I'm slightly different in the view of "look at what happened after PV4 left" senario, in that I think our stance back then is a little different to our stance now.

I think we'll spend a shitload of cash this summer. I just have a gut feeling. I still think AW is a top manager, and that isn't a "Wenger knows" comment. It's that I think he is far more capable than we give him credit for.

We're all down in the dumps. And yes, our manager has a lot of questions to answer, and a lot of things to put right. But I think he's capable. And I think he knows where the end of the line was for Project Highbury Exodus.

[Letters]

Tell you what. Why don't we just shit down all transfer threads on the forum

You already are.


:coffee:

[Coney]

Hmmm.

Like when we got rid of all the invincibles??

Thing is. This current set up has won us fuck all, and we need a change. As we're obviously not changing the manager, we can only do one other thing, and that's change the players.

We've all wanted a more robust team capable of digging in, to go with the ebb and flow of our attacking play. If that means getting rid of i) a left back who slips up more times than Frank Spencer, ii) A mecenary, clearly in it for himself and iii) a player who doesn't want to play for us....then fuck it, it's what we have to do.

As long as we use that money to replenish the squad with players who have bottle fight and leadership, I'm not too fussed tbh.

But as nothing the fuck has happened yet, I'll wait until it does.

And there's the rub. If Wenger has learned from the last 5 years and/or the money is now available to spend (and I think both are true) then losing Cesc and Nasri will not be a disaster. However, if we lose C&N and just get some 'promising players who will do well for us in a few years' then I will be well pissed off. I suspect we are going to be buying something a bit more solid though, given Gazidis' statements and Wenger's comments at the end of the last game. If not, any credibity they have with me will evaporate. Short of naming specific players, they have practically promised that things will be changed for next season and they had just better deliver. If not, Wenger will most certainly lose the supporters who still have belief in him and at the end of next year, the clamour for his head will be unstoppable.

[LDG]

Tell you what. Why don't we just shit down all transfer threads on the forum until the end of the transfer window? That way noone needs to opine and speculate, and we can just make factual comments on real situations. In fact, hell - why not suspend all threads on our likely league position until the final day of next season?

Well, no. It's fun to speculate about ins and outs and gossip and rumours.

What I don't get is blaming Wenger for things that haven't happened yet in this window.

[Coney]

What I don't get is blaming Wenger for things that haven't happened yet in this window.

Come on - it's 10:45 on the first official transfer window day. What is he hanging around for? There are only 2 more months left to complete the team. He is clearly not buying anyone and just selling Cesc and Nasri for 5 quid.

[Alpha]

i thought selling players involved clubs wanting to pay for them too?

people come online, turn on their tv, listen to talksport all day, getting every single minute piece of media info pumped into their head and then get upset when they dont see instant results from their club. the window only opens today and already the media have got 98% of fans by the nuts. its hilarious

Thats smart , mate .People let themselves upset by any shit the media throw at them and find out none of those nonsense story was true . The good thing to do is just wait and the end of the transfer window to make any logical comment

[Coney]

People let themselves upset by any shit the media throw at them and find out none of those nonsense story was true . The good thing to do is just wait and the end of the transfer window to make any logical comment

Rational, correct, but very unpopular to mention round this place. ;)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Coney, there arent two months to complete the team. There is no way in hell we can make the amount of changes we need to while following the traditional formula (for us) of waiting right up to the brink of the transfer windows closure. If we do that, then this season is over before it starts.

We need the players bedding in right from the start of preseason training.

[Kano]

Rational, correct, but very unpopular to mention round this place. ;)

far better to wallow in depression and predict doom and gloom.

a lot easier too

[LDG]

Coney, there arent two months to complete the team. There is no way in hell we can make the amount of changes we need to while following the traditional formula (for us) of waiting right up to the brink of the transfer windows closure. If we do that, then this season is over before it starts.

We need the players bedding in right from the start of preseason training.

Completely agree.

I'm not saying we should wait until 31st August when the "WINDOW SLAMS SHUT" (fucking hate football terminology, especially Sky). It's clear we need massive changes.

Just saying, until it's concrete, we shouldn't be hanging anybody for things that haven't yet been confirmed. Player IN's or OUT's.

By all means bemoan the carnage of last season, and debate what we MUST put in place before next year. Discuss the relative merits of transfer dealings, rumour or not. But to blame the manager and club for things that haven't actually happened, and are pure media speculation is a bit harsh IMO.

[Darth Vela]

Fuck it, 7m for Clichy? Add another 7 to it and we get Baines, bargain imo.

I don't think we should sell Nasri to anyone round here though, that'd be a very bad idea.

In general terms, we need players sooner rather than later, I'm not sure we could rely on anyone we don't buy in the next 3 weeks for the tough run of games we have at the start but I expect we'll have done more business than Gerinvoh by then.

[LDG]

Fuck it, 7m for Clichy? Add another 7 to it and we get Baines, bargain imo.

I don't think we should sell Nasri to anyone round here though, that'd be a very bad idea.

In general terms, we need players sooner rather than later, I'm not sure we could rely on anyone we don't buy in the next 3 weeks for the tough run of games we have at the start but I expect we'll have done more business than Gerinvoh by then.

Well I would hope, that if we are buying some prem experience; Baines/Cahill?? then they will bed in quite quick, regardless of when they are signed.

It's the ones like Gervinho who will take the time to settle in.

But having said that, I am expecting a hell of a lot more from some other players we already have. I'll get shouted down for this, but I think Chamahk will be a lot better this season. I think if Arshavin can get fit and find what he is capable of consistently, he'll be awesome.

Walcott...I'd like to think we'll see more from him.

Sometimes we let our focus sway from other matters. And for me, the main concern, and has been for a while now, is getting the team organised, regardless of signings.

Yes we need to spend big, moreso if we loose the big players being touted about....but lets not forget we have a lot of talent at the club, all of whom are capable of stepping up a gear. Song, Vermaelen, Walcott, Arshavin, Tampahx....there's plenty there who didn't perform to their ability in the last half of the season. We should expect 50% of our problems to be righted with our current players.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wash your fucking mouth out.
Milner is quality, brother man

[selassie]

Well look what happened after the Invincibles...

Fair enough to wait and see - not like we have much choice. But I'm looking at a current picture that's wider than the merits of individual players. It can't be denied that there is the smell of something a bit rotten about the club. One thing that you can always depend on - and that is that agents/press whores can smell weakness like sharks smell blood - and that's what's going on with us ATM.

We talk about replacing players and systems as though its like buying a new car - but building new teams is both a difficult and a painstaking process. There's no way that the guts can be ripped out of our team and we can bounce back next season like nothing's happened. It took Wenger 5 years to realise that project youth had failed. Its not like he's going to roar back with the Invincibles Mk 11, and the smart money says that any replacements will be 'project' players rather than EPL seasoned superstars.

So sure, we wait. But for me the prognosis is not the most promising one.

:gp:

Especially the part I've highlighted, if Cesc, Clichy & Nasri leave I cannot see how folks on here can be happy unless we replace them with established quality, preferably PL based players.

[selassie]

Coney, there arent two months to complete the team. There is no way in hell we can make the amount of changes we need to while following the traditional formula (for us) of waiting right up to the brink of the transfer windows closure. If we do that, then this season is over before it starts.

We need the players bedding in right from the start of preseason training.

:gp:

Too right.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

How do i feel about them all leaving.

They can all fuck off as far as im concerned.

Not sure why they are all sulking or maonaing as if they never had a part to play in out shit years if shitness.

IF aw and thats a bif if AW pulls his finger out and buys world class replacements then these chumps won't be missed.

[Coney]

Coney, there arent two months to complete the team. There is no way in hell we can make the amount of changes we need to while following the traditional formula (for us) of waiting right up to the brink of the transfer windows closure. If we do that, then this season is over before it starts.

We need the players bedding in right from the start of preseason training.

I agree that we should really try and get it all sorted now and I would be in favour of blowing a few more million to force the issue. I hope that what will happen is that most of our transfers will be completed in the next few weeks and that into August we will just be finishing the odd player transfer.

Of course, other teams are in the same boat. I am sure that Barca, manu, citeh, etc would all like to have things sorted out before the season begins. Although the final deadline is the end of August, I guess we and other clubs have an effective deadline well before that and that will be the trigger of the transfers. As I said, if we were to 'crack' first and accept the hit of a few million to get the thing sorted now, I'd have no problem with that. It would mean accepting a lesser offer for people like Cesc than some of the posters here would like but if that is what it takes to make it all come together, then we should bite the bullet.

[Boss]

Quite a few naive lads on here.

People are pissed off now because every year the same nonsense is spouted by the delusional ones on here ('don't worry, Vieira's not going to leave and if he does I'm sure we'll replace him with quality etc etc') and every year Wenger does the same thing, either doesn't sign anyone and promotes from within or signs projects late in the campaign and we don't see the best of them until two months in (at which point they end up injured for a few months).

Wenger doesn't have the intelligence to change, and he's not going to sign any star players (which is what is needed) this summer. Don't expect us to challenge for the title until he leaves.

[Kano]

when cole left, no one cried as we all thought clichy was a good enough replacement. when hleb left, we got in nasri. no reason to think he wont do the same again, unless you let a warped perception ruin perspective

[Ollie the Optimist]

('don't worry, Vieira's not going to leave and if he does I'm sure we'll replace him with quality etc etc')

if you are gonna have a go at wenger, at least use a decent example. he replaced him with cesc. oh right i see, that was shit from wenger :rolleyes:

[Flavs]

apparently Nasri turned down a £92,000 a week 4 year contract as he thinks he is worth more. Sorry mate but as someone who turns up in maybe 45% of games dont let the door hit you on the way out.

I am sadder about Clichy who i always liked, not the best player but certainly has the work rate we need in the team

[Ollie the Optimist]

apparently Nasri turned down a £92,000 a week 4 year contract as he thinks he is worth more. Sorry mate but as someone who turns up in maybe 45% of games dont let the door hit you on the way out.

I am sadder about Clichy who i always liked, not the best player but certainly has the work rate we need in the team

:gp:

Clichy never has said a bad word, has never given anything less then 100%. yes he fucks up but at least we know that when he is on hte pitch he will sprint his bollocks off from first minute to the last

[Boss]

if you are gonna have a go at wenger, at least use a decent example. he replaced him with cesc. oh right i see, that was shit from wenger :rolleyes:

Cesc shouldn't have been starting games for us at 16. We suffered while he developed.

You probably don't remember how shocking we were in the league in 2005-06, which was the season Fabregas became a starter for us and only lasagne prevented us from chucking away fourth to Spurs.

[Darth Vela]

Well I would hope, that if we are buying some prem experience; Baines/Cahill?? then they will bed in quite quick, regardless of when they are signed.

It's the ones like Gervinho who will take the time to settle in.

But having said that, I am expecting a hell of a lot more from some other players we already have. I'll get shouted down for this, but I think Chamahk will be a lot better this season. I think if Arshavin can get fit and find what he is capable of consistently, he'll be awesome.

Walcott...I'd like to think we'll see more from him.

Sometimes we let our focus sway from other matters. And for me, the main concern, and has been for a while now, is getting the team organised, regardless of signings.

Yes we need to spend big, moreso if we loose the big players being touted about....but lets not forget we have a lot of talent at the club, all of whom are capable of stepping up a gear. Song, Vermaelen, Walcott, Arshavin, Tampahx....there's plenty there who didn't perform to their ability in the last half of the season. We should expect 50% of our problems to be righted with our current players.

True, any PL players will need less time to adapt and as they're hopefully a big part of our outlay I guess we can wait a little longer.

Couldn't agree more about the level of talent we have but there is a balance issue between types of player imo, along with the disparity in age/experience/giving a fuck we have in there. There's something up with the squad that goes beyond organisation, I think, but regardless I agree we should expect more from some of our players next year, whether we get it :shrug:

[Coney]

Wenger doesn't have the intelligence to change, and he's not going to sign any star players (which is what is needed) this summer. Don't expect us to challenge for the title until he leaves.

I suggest that Wenger/Dein proposed the project a few years back and the board backed the idea. OK, so now it is clear that despite tweeks that have been made, the project has not worked and it is time to call it a day. Wenger seems to have acknowledged that from his comments, Gazidis practically said it in so many words at the supporters club meeting and unless he has taken to overriding or contradicting Wenger in public, that is the thinking by the board and manager. Combined with Kroenke coming on board who surely knows that to maximise the Arsenal Company Limited's funds, profits and dividends, they need the supporters here to be right behind them and that means winning trophies, something they must also do to get the publicity to sell shirts and stuff in the Far East.

Note that Wenger has always been against doing a Far East Tour. What are we about to do? A Far East Tour. Clearly Wenger can take change on board.

[Champagne Charlie]

I'm really starting to worry about the current situation. Personally, I don't think loosing Clichy, Nasri and possibly Cesc as individuals is that much of an issue, they're all replaceable. But loosing all three at once is a major concern!

We really need to strengthen this summer, but if these three go (plus squad players like Denilson, Diaby, etc) then we need to replace first before we can strenghten, and football transfers really aren't as simple as going out and buying 6 'world class' players within a couple of weeks!

People often mention that buying quality players helps convince others to stay, but it works the other way round as well. If our own club captain, one of our players of the season last year and one of the longest serving members of the team all want out then what hope have we got of tempting other top quality players to sign!?

[LDG]

I'm really starting to worry about the current situation. Personally, I don't think loosing Clichy, Nasri and possibly Cesc as individuals is that much of an issue, they're all replaceable. But loosing all three at once is a major concern!

We really need to strengthen this summer, but if these three go (plus squad players like Denilson, Diaby, etc) then we need to replace first before we can strenghten, and football transfers really aren't as simple as going out and buying 6 'world class' players within a couple of weeks!

People often mention that buying quality players helps convince others to stay, but it works the other way round as well. If our own club captain, one of our players of the season last year and one of the longest serving members of the team all want out then what hope have we got of tempting other top quality players to sign!?

Worrying times indeed. We really are on the edge here, and a lot needs to happen to convince our, so far (and commendably so) patient fanbase, that we are moving in the right direction. Ruthless, determined and competetive.

Anything less, and the club risks losing one hell of a lot. At it will hit them where it most hurts.

Wenger is not an idiot. Nor are the people running our club. We do have, to a certain extent, trust that all the frustrations we see and talk about, are now on the shoulders of our manager, and those powers that be. And that there is now real pressure to take this club forward and with ruthless determination.

However, don't underestimate the attraction of Arsenal to players, with or without our top names. don't forget that we have seen big names leave in the past, only to be replaced by players such as Fabregas, and Nasri....now wanted by the biggest and welathiest clubs in the world.

If playing for Arsenal, in our big shiney stadium, in the champs league, with a manager who is not as stupid as people think is not incentive enough....then surely seeing unknowns develop and be sought after by money machines is....

[selassie]

when cole left, no one cried as we all thought clichy was a good enough replacement. when hleb left, we got in nasri. no reason to think he wont do the same again, unless you let a warped perception ruin perspective

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players immediately.

[LDG]

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players.

Harsh.

The team last year was pretty much the team he built post-invincibles.

Now I'm not stupid enough to think that they in anyway compare....we're talking about the best team we've ever had, or are ever likely to see at our club.

But what he did replace them with (under some financial pressure, of our own making or not....was it policy or prudence??) a new team, that SHOULD have won the league last year.

We all know it didn't work out that way, but to say "The Replacements" were inadequate is, to me, a throw-away statement without much substance. They are good players. But we cocked up in other areas.....it wasn't the players themselves. EDIT: I should say, it wasn't the calibre of player....it was the way in which those players were sent out to do their job.

[selassie]

Harsh.

The team last year was pretty much the team he built post-invincibles.

Now I'm not stupid enough to think that they in anyway compare....we're talking about the best team we've ever had, or are ever likely to see at our club.

But what he did replace them with (under some financial pressure, of our own making or not....was it policy or prudence??) a new team, that SHOULD have won the league last year.

We all know it didn't work out that way, but to say "The Replacements" were inadequate is, to me, a throw-away statement without much substance. They are good players. But we cocked up in other areas.....it wasn't the players themselves. EDIT: I should say, it wasn't the calibre of player....it was the way in which those players were sent out to do their job.

I actually edited the post afterwards to include the word immediately. ;)

I'll stand by my statement that a lot of the replacements post invincible are inferior, now I accept they are younger and have time to develop, but some of them...Clichy being a prime example haven't developed in the way I would of like, Ashley Cole is far superior to Clichy.

I'm just so frustrated with Arsene & Arsenal at the moment, I'm sick to death of the perpetual rebuilding.

In 07/08 Arsene built one of the best squads he's ever had at Arsenal with financial restrictions or whatever we want to call it. That summer he went about dismantling that squad and we've not looked the same since.

I realise that constantly moaning won't change things but how folks can say that we'll be OK when the heart of our team is being ripped out beggars belief.

Yes the players who are leaving haven't contributed anything in terms of trophies, but these are the players we should be adding quality to not removing.

At Arsenal it's always...1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[Champagne Charlie]

However, don't underestimate the attraction of Arsenal to players, with or without our top names. don't forget that we have seen big names leave in the past, only to be replaced by players such as Fabregas, and Nasri....now wanted by the biggest and welathiest clubs in the world.

If playing for Arsenal, in our big shiney stadium, in the champs league, with a manager who is not as stupid as people think is not incentive enough....then surely seeing unknowns develop and be sought after by money machines is....

I see where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent, players will always come and go, that's the nature of football these days. And Arsenal's a big club with a lot of pulling power. But there does seem to be a worrying trend of players wanting out and citing "ambition" as their reasons.

And I think your last line is worryingly spot on. The club is in danger of being seen by players as a stepping stone to a big payday and winning trophies. You mention Cesc and Nasri as players that have replaced other big names but now they want out, so we'll get a few years out of their replacements but then who's to say they wont want out too!? If every transfer we make is replacing leaving, quality squad players then how the hell are we ever going to move forward as a team?

[Kano]

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players immediately.

you can use hindsight to criticsie anything. the point is at the time and for quite a while afterwards people were more than happy with him as a replacement. that view has only changed in the past couple of years.

[Cripps_orig]

Yep been on the sports channels this morning, apparently Chlichy is already there having a medical before a £10mil move and Nasri is just beginning talks over a £22mil move.

Good or bad?
Good if we get quality replacements but we wont so bad id say.

[server too busy!]

Why are we selling to our rivals, we don't need the money so why not kart him off abroad.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

Especially the part I've highlighted, if Cesc, Clichy & Nasri leave I cannot see how folks on here can be happy unless we replace them with established quality, preferably PL based players.

This is like performing open heart surgey, brain surgery, and a kidney transplant at the same time. Even if this makes the team better in the long run, we've cut the team deep and it will take a long time for us to recover. No team should lose three of their first team starters in one transfer window. It's like Man U losing Rooney, Nani and Evra in one window. It's like Chelsea losing Lampard, Cole and Malouda.

I hope this doesn't happen. Most teams would just buy a replacement and have competition for places. We never do this. Too many changes to the first team is dangerous. We just saw how poor our defence was this year and that was partly because they had no Prem experience and had never played together. Wenger knows the key to success is stability, so what is he playing at?

I'm not holding my breath on those new world class signings either. Look how long it has taken us to tue down a deal with Gervinho. The guy is £10m -£15m rated player and we go in with a bid worth £7m! He just helped his team win the French league. They're not going to accept that. When it comes to spending serious money on a serious player we'll get blown out of the water.

[selassie]

you can use hindsight to criticsie anything. the point is at the time and for quite a while afterwards people were more than happy with him as a replacement. that view has only changed in the past couple of years.

I'm not really criticising, just stating facts, Clichy has never played at Cole's level so therefore Cole has not been adequately replaced.

[Alan B'stard]

I'm trying to think of arsenal players who have gone to man city in any capacity and actually been good there.

So far I have

1) Joe Mercer.

and thats it.

Alan Ball: shit
Toure shit. Fat.
Adebayor. Shit. cunt
seaman: past it
PLatt: shit
Clichy: shit
Anelka: shit. cunt

[Ollie the Optimist]

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players immediately.

i disagree, in the first few seasons after cole, he was fantastic, was one of our top players. last season and one before was when he went to shit

[Cripps_orig]

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players immediately.
This

Cos of the way Cole left us, we all got behind Clichy and supported him 100% and his shiteness was overlooked.

However season in and season out of Wenger failures meant the fans have lost trust and patience in the cunt meaning any shiteness is not not overlooked and instead highlighted

[selassie]

i disagree, in the first few seasons after cole, he was fantastic, was one of our top players. last season and one before was when he went to shit

Fine that's your opinion. Cole has widely been regarded as one of the best left backs in the world for quite some time, a good few seasons when he was our player.

Clichy? Whilst I agree he did fairly well for a few seasons after Cole left he never ever got close to playing at his level.

[Kano]

Fine that's your opinion. Cole has widely been regarded as one of the best left backs in the world for quite some time, a good few seasons when he was our player.

Clichy? Whilst I agree he did fairly well for a few seasons after Cole left he never ever got close to playing at his level.

And for a vast majority they thought he would go on to be just as good, there was no issue in the fans mind about him as a replacement. Nasri was also an adeuqate replecement for Hleb.

It's just lazy to throw a blanket statement out that he never replaces quality with similar. Gervinho would be a good replacement for Nasri - there is no one in this league that we could buy to come in and hit the ground running. The hype of Nasri is just that, so far he has shown flashes and 6 months, hardly world class.

[Master Splinter]

i disagree, in the first few seasons after cole, he was fantastic, was one of our top players. last season and one before was when he went to shit
:gp:

Spot-on.

[Niall_Quinn]

Looks to me like we are trying to sabotage City's plans by lumbering them with as many of our losers as we can. Might work. Imagine if we get them in the cup final in a few years, both teams would implode and concede 20 goals in the last 5 minutes. Might be the final of the century and we could even win by accident. Definitely, sell them, it;s better than the plan we have now.

[selassie]

And for a vast majority they thought he would go on to be just as good, there was no issue in the fans mind about him as a replacement. Nasri was also an adeuqate replecement for Hleb.

It's just lazy to throw a blanket statement out that he never replaces quality with similar. Gervinho would be a good replacement for Nasri - there is no one in this league that we could buy to come in and hit the ground running. The hype of Nasri is just that, so far he has shown flashes and 6 months, hardly world class.

So because there was no issue in the fans mind that makes him as good as Cole then? Sorry I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Is he as good as Cole or not?

Gervinho in time will most likely be a adequate replacement for Nasri but we need instant results. We don't need to be waiting 2 seasons for players to develop, have you not seen our performances over the past 3-4 seasons?

Also...your statement of there is no one in this league who would hit the ground running? What on earth are you talking about?

P.S. I did edit my original reply to LDG stating that Arsene doesn't adequately replace our players immediately. E.G. He sells an established player and buys a Project player.

[Niall_Quinn]

With so many suitable candidates to be pushed out the door it's a bit of a laugh we have settled on Clichy, Nasri and Cesc. Typical really. Shame we can't get rid of Robin so we can have the fuck up of all transfer windows to go with the fuck up of all seasons we just had.

[Darth Vela]

I dunno, it wasn't Denilson and Bendtner that were in the first team for the majority of our collapse, it was Nasri and Cesc.

Seems a little strange for everyone to be agitating for major changes in the team then when it actually happens turn around and say we didn't mean THAT much change, Cesc and Nasri were as big a part of the failure as anyone, I'd rather keep them but when it's obvious change is needed, a bit of risk needs to be taken.

[Kano]

So because there was no issue in the fans mind that makes him as good as Cole then? Sorry I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Is he as good as Cole or not?

Gervinho in time will most likely be a adequate replacement for Nasri but we need instant results. We don't need to be waiting 2 seasons for players to develop, have you not seen our performances over the past 3-4 seasons?

Also...your statement of there is no one in this league who would hit the ground running? What on earth are you talking about?

P.S. I did edit my original reply to LDG stating that Arsene doesn't adequately replace our players immediately. E.G. He sells an established player and buys a Project player.

well it was all spelled out very clearly but i'll repeat myself

AT THE TIME, Clichy was viewed as an adequate replacement. You said he never replaces like for like, when at the time of actually replacing him he was deemed as so, and even potentially better. Imagine this scenario. We buy a recognised player you think is good enough and they turn out not to be in the long run. Are you then going to criticise him for that when at the time you were happy and thought he was good enough? It doesn't make sense to use hindsight as a criticism in this case.

There is no one we could buy to replace Nasri from the Prem that could come in and be an equal replacement. They are all at big teams that would not sell to us.

[Power n Glory]

I dunno, it wasn't Denilson and Bendtner that were in the first team for the majority of our collapse, it was Nasri and Cesc.

Seems a little strange for everyone to be agitating for major changes in the team then when it actually happens turn around and say we didn't mean THAT much change, Cesc and Nasri were as big a part of the failure as anyone, I'd rather keep them but when it's obvious change is needed, a bit of risk needs to be taken.

Only a few fools suggested we needed to wipe the slate clean. This is throwing out the baby with the bath water. And let's not kid ourselves, Wenger doesn't want to lose Cesc and Nasri. This isn't a change. We are doing what we always do. When the big clubs come knocking, Wenger and the Board bend over. A real change would be adding more fire power and steel to this team. That is what most teams do.

[selassie]

well it was all spelled out very clearly but i'll repeat myself

AT THE TIME, Clichy was viewed as an adequate replacement. You said he never replaces like for like, when at the time of actually replacing him he was deemed as so, and even potentially better. Imagine this scenario. We buy a recognised player you think is good enough and they turn out not to be in the long run. Are you then going to criticise him for that when at the time you were happy and thought he was good enough? It doesn't make sense to use hindsight as a criticism in this case.

There is no one we could buy to replace Nasri from the Prem that could come in and be an equal replacement. They are all at big teams that would not sell to us.

Spelt out clearly you mean?

At the time Clichy was an inferior replacement for Cole, he was a downgrade. I stand by my point that Arsene pretty much never replaces like for like.

My point has nothing to do with us buying recognised players and those said players flopping so I've got no idea why you've brought this into the conversation, please keep on topic.

I'm not sure I agree with your point regarding a replacement for Nasri from the Prem. I think someone like Ashley Young whilst not being as cultured and not having as much potential as Nasri could well of been an instant hit at Arsenal.

For example, look at Valencia at United, he pretty much hit the ground running and has really contributed to their success over the past few seasons.

[Özim]

well it was all spelled out very clearly but i'll repeat myself

AT THE TIME, Clichy was viewed as an adequate replacement. You said he never replaces like for like, when at the time of actually replacing him he was deemed as so, and even potentially better. Imagine this scenario. We buy a recognised player you think is good enough and they turn out not to be in the long run. Are you then going to criticise him for that when at the time you were happy and thought he was good enough? It doesn't make sense to use hindsight as a criticism in this case.

There is no one we could buy to replace Nasri from the Prem that could come in and be an equal replacement. They are all at big teams that would not sell to us.
No, what happened is people were very bitter about Cole put their faith in Clichy who had shown potential when covering.

Clichy was never a like for like replacement for Cole, like for like would be world class for world class, Clichy wasn't as he hadn't been a regular.

Sure we put up with him because of the situation, but personally if given the choice I'd have kept Cole one of the best full backs in the world.

I think Clichy did OK but he wasn't a like for like replacement, because that would be like saying replacing Vieira with Flamini is a like for like replacement, it clearly isn't.

Selassie is right, Wenger always looks for the cheap option, if we lose our top players this summer don't expect top quality world class players to come in, Wenger will once again try and find someone who he thinks can do the job rather than someone who is proven.

[north bank nutter]

Clichy was an adequate replacement for Ashley Cole. Just he has not progressed and if anything stagnated. His mistake a few seasons ago vs B'mgham cost us the league. He has not been the same since.

[Ollie the Optimist]

to those who hate clichy, just one stat for you
90 – Gael Clichy won more tackles (90) than any other defender in the 2010/11 Premier League season. Wanted.

justsaying

[GP]

to those who hate clichy, just one stat for you

justsaying

Yeah, but his brain only works for 85 mins at a time.

He needs replacing tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

to those who hate clichy, just one stat for you

justsaying
Impressive

Another stat


89 - Gael Clichy made 90 tackles but 89 of those were through his stupid ass concentration and he should be sold asap

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This

Cos of the way Cole left us, we all got behind Clichy and supported him 100% and his shiteness was overlooked.

However season in and season out of Wenger failures meant the fans have lost trust and patience in the cunt meaning any shiteness is not not overlooked and instead highlighted

This is Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yeah, but his brain only works for 85 mins at a time.

He needs replacing tbh.

i agree, i dont think he should be our number 1 and there are better wing backs out there but the point of that stat was to show the people who said he was shit, never did anything etc that he really isnt as bad as they say

[Master Splinter]

Another stat

89 - Gael Clichy made 90 tackles but 89 of those were through his stupid ass concentration and he should be sold asap


:haha:

Now that is quality WUMming.

Good to see the stattos giving their opinions now too :lol:.

[alexander]

Im sure that part of Clichy recent headless chicken act is partly due to having a mongy goal keeper (almunia) a dodgy defence to his right and no protection in front of him (Arshavin)

Seems strange to sell him to our closest rival, City, for as little as 7mil when he is only 27. Needs replacing if he goes, because we cant rely on Gibbs (or any of this team) to stay fit.

[IBK]

I actually edited the post afterwards to include the word immediately. ;)

I'll stand by my statement that a lot of the replacements post invincible are inferior, now I accept they are younger and have time to develop, but some of them...Clichy being a prime example haven't developed in the way I would of like, Ashley Cole is far superior to Clichy.

I'm just so frustrated with Arsene & Arsenal at the moment, I'm sick to death of the perpetual rebuilding.

In 07/08 Arsene built one of the best squads he's ever had at Arsenal with financial restrictions or whatever we want to call it. That summer he went about dismantling that squad and we've not looked the same since.

I realise that constantly moaning won't change things but how folks can say that we'll be OK when the heart of our team is being ripped out beggars belief.

Yes the players who are leaving haven't contributed anything in terms of trophies, but these are the players we should be adding quality to not removing.

At Arsenal it's always...1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Spot on, mate. While LDG argues very eloquently that AW has the talent to deal with a complete regime change, and the likes of Letters take the supercillious high ground - logic and experience suggest that a mass exodus, including some of our key players, is going to be a serious set back for the club. Consider these facts:

- Even when he was purchasing the players who were to become the Invincibles - the last time he 'spent big' as it were - these players were added to a tried and tested solid base, particularly the back 5. Anyone who thinks that our team, less Cesc, Nasri and Clichy, is a tried and tested solid base is on crack.

- The market for the very best players is infinitely more inflated than it was in the late 90's/early 00's. We know that the club isn't going to purchase in the style of Manure/Citeh/Chavs so we are inevitably looking at second tier players.

- Wenger has a decent track record of buying good players - but they are almost invariably young; foreign and developmental. He is also implacably against paying over the odds (as we have seen with his albeit correct decision re Nasri). The manager may be a bit more adventurous this Summer, but no way is he going to break the habit of a lifetime.

- Since when has a team with a large number of new 'key' players bedded in immediately?

Yes we must wait and see. But for me it is naive to think that what we will see this Summer and next season will be any more than the start of another project. Even the brilliant SAF tends to take 2/3 years for a title winning team to be built. Why do people think that Wenger, without his captain and key player and significant supporting cast members will be any different? Clearly, our want-away players don't. And the difference between Manure and a now diminished Arsenal team is that SAF doesn't keep hemorrhaging players every other year.

So it would be a massive (and very pleasant) surprise to see a team of new faces gelling and competing next season. But this should be acknowledged as the rose-tinted optimism that it is rather than people implying that this is the likely outcome and that all the cynics are immature pessimists.

[Power n Glory]

Good post, Nas.

You'll have to change your name again. Go for an Arsenal legend instead of a current player. It's safer that way.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bang on NS.

If it's true that we really are stuck on £13M for Chaill when the demand is a mere £4mill more, then that sums it up for me. Nothing is changing at this club and no lessons have been learned. I suspect that's because the manager and the board don't feel there are any lessons to be learned anyway. This obnoxious acceptance that a top 4 placement each year somehow represents success seems to have blinded them to what this game is really about.

Where would we be today if we'd have just paid that extra £2mill for Alonso? An absolutely ideal player for us, one would think. Just as Cahill is a vital player for us to acquire given the tragedy that currently passes as our defence. We never did sign that goalkeeper, did we? Of course that decision cost us too, as was easily predicted. Now some are suggesting we go with a talented rookie in goal (some even say make him captain), and there's that blind hope there will be a different outcome, as if some magic process will unfurl to buck every trend, dispel every ignored lesson.

Sure, let Cesc go, we don't need him, he's bad for us. Let Nasri go and get some untried replacement in. He might be good, it might work out, everything could be wonderful.

But is this really the way to manage an allegedly top flight football team? Constant churn and then trust to luck? Good players out, every year, YouTube stars in. No wonder we seem to have a collection of talented headless chickens rather than a coherent team. The headless chicken in chief, Wenger, seems to be at it again, his stupid and losing principles to the fore and the screamingly obvious kicked into touch.

If we really wanted change this year then it had to be Wenger out the door first. Somebody else said there's a belief any old fool could do a better job. When you're missing the obvious fixes and instead focusing on some hybrid two fingered salute to the English game and a penny pinching economics master class, I wonder who the biggest fool is - in terms of actually winning?

Anyway, here's my prediction for 2011/12. Wenger will fail to fix the problems, we'll sell more of the spine, we'll get in mediocrity, we'll cling to a top 4 spot (hmm, I'm not absolutely sure about this one), we'll collapse at the end of the season, we'll suffer horrible humiliations throughout, RvP will get fed-up and leave and the board and Wenger will claim another great season with increased profits and European football secured. Sad isn't it? How predictable it all is.

[Mr. Lahey]

Spot on, mate. While LDG argues very eloquently that AW has the talent to deal with a complete regime change, and the likes of Letters take the supercillious high ground - logic and experience suggest that a mass exodus, including some of our key players, is going to be a serious set back for the club. Consider these facts:

- Even when he was purchasing the players who were to become the Invincibles - the last time he 'spent big' as it were - these players were added to a tried and tested solid base, particularly the back 5. Anyone who thinks that our team, less Cesc, Nasri and Clichy, is a tried and tested solid base is on crack.

- The market for the very best players is infinitely more inflated than it was in the late 90's/early 00's. We know that the club isn't going to purchase in the style of Manure/Citeh/Chavs so we are inevitably looking at second tier players.

- Wenger has a decent track record of buying good players - but they are almost invariably young; foreign and developmental. He is also implacably against paying over the odds (as we have seen with his albeit correct decision re Nasri). The manager may be a bit more adventurous this Summer, but no way is he going to break the habit of a lifetime.

- Since when has a team with a large number of new 'key' players bedded in immediately?

Yes we must wait and see. But for me it is naive to think that what we will see this Summer and next season will be any more than the start of another project. Even the brilliant SAF tends to take 2/3 years for a title winning team to be built. Why do people think that Wenger, without his captain and key player and significant supporting cast members will be any different? Clearly, our want-away players don't. And the difference between Manure and a now diminished Arsenal team is that SAF doesn't keep hemorrhaging players every other year.

So it would be a massive (and very pleasant) surprise to see a team of new faces gelling and competing next season. But this should be acknowledged as the rose-tinted optimism that it is rather than people implying that this is the likely outcome and that all the cynics are immature pessimists.


I agree with most of your post mate but can someone tell me why the bolded part is the correct decision? Ive yet to read an intelligent post about why its a good decision not to do a little bit extra to sign him. Is this all because its a matter of principle? Ive never seen a fan base so obsessed with money moreso than Arsenal fans.

Sometimes as a manager, you have to pay that little bit extra to get that extra special something. You ask any Manager/GM in the world is this is how they operate aside from ours who is as stubborn as they come. This has held us back in our trophy run for years. Wenger is too stubborn to shell out the extra $$$ here and there on players for key positions.

Nasri for me is worth the extra money and this is why:

- Hes 23 and still has not even reached his peak physically or on the mental side

- His first season he was solid. 2nd in our team player of the year on Arsenal.com and voted player of the year on here.

- 2nd season he started out missing 2 months with a broken leg. This affected his whole year and he even admitted that this was the problem. He battled fitness issues all season and this affected his performance.

- This past year he had his most successful year. Bagging 15 or 16 goals from the midfield and was even talked about as WPOY. Sure he tailed off at the back end of the season but he was the MAIN reason why we were so successful at the beginning. His run of goals look awfully familiar to Pires's run back in the Invincible day.

- Hes a France international who his a designated captain. I like to believe that Blanc is a man who knows what he is doing and I highly doubt that he would put someone with a poor attitude into that position. Ill take his judgement over anybodies on here any day.

He is going to get much, much better as he is still learning. I believe that under a different coach he would be up there with Messi and Ronaldo. SO why are some on here so eager to get rid?

[Niall_Quinn]

There's an even bigger problem than us losing him - Utd getting him. He'll be stellar for them. They were going to have a massive problem with the loss of Scholes and Giggs, fortunately for them it looks like we're leaping to their rescue. I'll say it again, if we sell Nasri to one of our domestic competitors it underlines beyond all reasonable doubt the total lack of ambition that now exists at the club.

[Boss]

He is going to get much, much better as he is still learning. I believe that under a different coach he would be up there with Messi and Ronaldo. SO why are some on here so eager to get rid?

Quite a few people on here are too blinded by emotion and idiocy to use common sense.

[selassie]

There's an even bigger problem than us losing him - Utd getting him. He'll be stellar for them. They were going to have a massive problem with the loss of Scholes and Giggs, fortunately for them it looks like we're leaping to their rescue. I'll say it again, if we sell Nasri to one of our domestic competitors it underlines beyond all reasonable doubt the total lack of ambition that now exists at the club.

If we sell Nasri to any of those Big 3 clubs (Man U, Chelsea or City) they will keep on coming back for our stars.

Selling Nasri to any of them sends out a message that we're easy pickings and willing to do business with our rivals when it comes to our star players. It could damage the clubs reputation IMHO.

[Power n Glory]

Ramsey is a Man U fan and Walcott is a Liverpool fan. We'll keep em warm until a bid comes in.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger could solve all this by moving decisively in the transfer market and bringing in the players we need to mount a serious challenge. Instead he's talking about waiting around until everyone else makes a move. I guess this means he's waiting to sift through the scraps once the big clubs have fed. We'll reach the transfer window close with less quality in the side and then Wenger will tell us we are going to win the league. Been here before.

[Toronto Gooner]

He is going to get much, much better as he is still learning. I believe that under a different coach he would be up there with Messi and Ronaldo. SO why are some on here so eager to get rid?
Up there with Messi and Ronaldo? What are you taking? I am sure that the pharmaceutical companies would pay billions for a hallucinogenic drug of such potency.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If we sell Nasri to any of those Big 3 clubs (Man U, Chelsea or City) they will keep on coming back for our stars.

Selling Nasri to any of them sends out a message that we're easy pickings and willing to do business with our rivals when it comes to our star players. It could damage the clubs reputation IMHO.

What stars if we sellthebig 2 this season we won't have any so no they won't.

[Toronto Gooner]

Bang on NS.

If it's true that we really are stuck on £13M for Chaill when the demand is a mere £4mill more, then that sums it up for me.
Well, aside from the fact that no one has actually provided proof that this is true, the fact that you consider £4 million (approx 30% of Arsenal's alleged offer) a mere pittance (that can easily be found down the back of the sofas in the director's box) shows a profound lack of comprehension of how to run a business so as NOT to bankrupt it.

Pretty much everyone (including me) accepts that Arsenal need at least 4 new players without having to replace any key players who leave. If each new player costs a mere £4 million extra, then they will spend £16 million which could have been used to buy another high quality player! Is that good business?


Anyway, here's my prediction for 2011/12. Wenger will fail to fix the problems, we'll sell more of the spine, we'll get in mediocrity, we'll cling to a top 4 spot (hmm, I'm not absolutely sure about this one), we'll collapse at the end of the season, we'll suffer horrible humiliations throughout, RvP will get fed-up and leave and the board and Wenger will claim another great season with increased profits and European football secured. Sad isn't it? How predictable it all is.
If this does come to pass, then here is my prediction: All those "fans" who support Arsenal because they were successful will cease to support the club, leaving it open to the fans who support the club and not the success to continue. Considering that I have a plaque in Armoury Square indicating my support of the club since 1965, I am not certain that I would be too disappointed with such an outcome.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, aside from the fact that no one has actually provided proof that this is true, the fact that you consider £4 million (approx 30% of Arsenal's alleged offer) a mere pittance (that can easily be found down the back of the sofas in the director's box) shows a profound lack of comprehension of how to run a business so as NOT to bankrupt it.

Pretty much everyone (including me) accepts that Arsenal need at least 4 new players without having to replace any key players who leave. If each new player costs a mere £4 million extra, then they will spend £16 million which could have been used to buy another high quality player! Is that good business?


If this does come to pass, then here is my prediction: All those "fans" who support Arsenal because they were successful will cease to support the club, leaving it open to the fans who support the club and not the success to continue. Considering that I have a plaque in Armoury Square indicating my support of the club since 1965, I am not certain that I would be too disappointed with such an outcome.

There you go again, you and your fucking plaque in Armoury Square. Even so, I'll let you know when I need you to tell me what constitutes a proper Arsenal supporter, if that's okay with you matey? 1965 has the edge on me, by a few years but not many. It just so happens I don't like seeing the club getting raped by a bunch of greedy cunts in Savile Row clobber, okay? If you want to suck their dicks and sing about the good times and the bad times then you get on and do that. But I want the business of the club to be conducted on the pitch rather than in some fucking estate agents office. It's about WINNING, sunshine - haven't you managed to figure that much out in 40 years? Not every year, not even most years. But you enter each and every fucking season with the intention of winning everything and finishing top of the tree and you try your damn hardest to ensure all the pieces are in place to ensure that happens. If you are happy to conclude that 6 years of neglect in the transfer market hasn't left AT LEAST £4mill down the back of the sofa in change then fine, but I'll stick with my assessment of how trivial that amount is considering how many pennies we've pinched over the years. We can moan and whine and fucking bleat about Chelsea and City all we want or we can spend the FEW QUID required to take us on to what we've been threatening to do for years, fucking win something! Wenger is full of shit. He's happy to spend £13million on shit like Koscielny and Squillaci but he can't raise the funds for a proper fucking defender. He'll stalk a pile of shit like Chamakh until he can get him for free (the tight wad) and then he'll pay the cunt who the fuck knows what in wages, but he won't pay Nasri the going rate (a rate which other clubs are prepared to pay). We can do the fucking poundstretcher thing all we want and the end result will be the same, everyone knows it including surely Wenger. Even he must have got a clue by now. How many years has he been fucking around with the defence just so he can avoid spending proper money on proper players? How much money has he pissed down the drain in the process? How many fucked-up games where the defence has killed us? I suppose it takes a real fan to just accept that and applaud every time the accountants give the thumbs up.

So here we are. A bunch of fucking losers in the boardroom. A fucking loser as a manager. A team of the most ridiculous losers you're ever likely to encounter in the history of the game - who collapses like us after all? And to be a good fan, well guess what - you need to be a loser too and you need to like it! Nah - not my style at all. I guess we've both got long memories and it's a long time since I've seen such a losing attitude at this club and I don't think I've ever seen a losing attitude held up as a virtue. Fuck each and every one of the losers, get me some winners and if they cost a MERE £4mill more than that tight wad is prepared to pay then fuck him out the door and get someone who will do what's fucking required to win. It's sport, not an accountancy lecture. I'll agree with this "prudent" shit once Man Utd, Chelsea and City are out of business - bankrupt.

Ain't happening - is it! Oops, another one of Wenger's grand theories hits the shitter.

[Niall_Quinn]

Up there with Messi and Ronaldo? What are you taking? I am sure that the pharmaceutical companies would pay billions for a hallucinogenic drug of such potency.

Or you could just bum some of Wenger's stash.

[IBK]

I agree with most of your post mate but can someone tell me why the bolded part is the correct decision? Ive yet to read an intelligent post about why its a good decision not to do a little bit extra to sign him. Is this all because its a matter of principle? Ive never seen a fan base so obsessed with money moreso than Arsenal fans.

Sometimes as a manager, you have to pay that little bit extra to get that extra special something. You ask any Manager/GM in the world is this is how they operate aside from ours who is as stubborn as they come. This has held us back in our trophy run for years. Wenger is too stubborn to shell out the extra $$$ here and there on players for key positions.

Nasri for me is worth the extra money and this is why:

- Hes 23 and still has not even reached his peak physically or on the mental side

- His first season he was solid. 2nd in our team player of the year on Arsenal.com and voted player of the year on here.

- 2nd season he started out missing 2 months with a broken leg. This affected his whole year and he even admitted that this was the problem. He battled fitness issues all season and this affected his performance.

- This past year he had his most successful year. Bagging 15 or 16 goals from the midfield and was even talked about as WPOY. Sure he tailed off at the back end of the season but he was the MAIN reason why we were so successful at the beginning. His run of goals look awfully familiar to Pires's run back in the Invincible day.

- Hes a France international who his a designated captain. I like to believe that Blanc is a man who knows what he is doing and I highly doubt that he would put someone with a poor attitude into that position. Ill take his judgement over anybodies on here any day.

He is going to get much, much better as he is still learning. I believe that under a different coach he would be up there with Messi and Ronaldo. SO why are some on here so eager to get rid?

I'm glad you raised this point, mate. The reason I think AW is correct is that by all accounts, Nasri wants upwards of £110K per week - parity with Fabregas. Now I agree 100% that we shouldn't be selling him to our rivals, and I've made my position on wholesale changes quite clear. But for me, the bottom line is twofold.

First - IMHO he hasn't done enough to merit either his demands or his behaviour. Injuries or no - he has given us barely 4 months of performances that merit what he is asking for, and tellingly he epitomised the team's falling off at the business end of the season. The highest paid player in the team should be carrying it - as Cesc has done in previous seasons - not being a passenger. And following the Adebayor debacle, AW is rightly wary of going the same way with a player who is not prepared to give 100% for the cause. Christ knows we have enough of these in our team.

Second - whatever Nasri's talent, I am inclined to be wary about what this episode says about him. Yes, its part of the modern game. But Tevez; Rooney and co. held their clubs to ransom having put in a lot more than 4 months of decent play. Refusing to sign a contract last Summer indicates to me that this move was calculated, and suggests a player, like Adebayor, motivated by money and arrogance. Will he suceed at Manure; Citeh or the Chavs? Well they can perhaps afford to take the risk more than we can because all their eggs aren't in one basket. It may be that more stellar company will bring the best out in him, but I'm not sure that this is a guy we want to depend on.

Where Wenger messed up was not loosening the purse strings just a little last season, the season before, to give Project Youth the tools it needed to win silverware, and encourage the likes of Nasri to commit to the club rather than running down their contracts. Trying the close the stable door after the horse has bolted by being panicked into giving this particular player more than he deserves now is not the right move, IMO. I'd rather the manager paid Cesc £150K per week to get him to stay. At least he has earnt the right to be the top paid player. Give Nasri north of £110K pw and every player who has given the club 15 good games will be wanting the same.

[AKBapologist]

What stars if we sellthebig 2 this season we won't have any so no they won't.
Walcott, Whilsire, RVP, etc etc etc.

If all 3 end up going (clichy, fabregas and nasri) without buying +20mill replacements, AW will be hounded of the club like a possessed goat.

[AKBapologist]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_7015881,00.html?utm_source=twitterfe ed&utm_medium=twitter

[friskyanders]

Couldn't agree more with Niall Quinn.

I'm not bothererd at all by Clichy going - Same as Toure - He's had his day with us - In fact he probably hasn't been the same since his part in the Birmingham fiasco the day Eduardo had his leg snapped.

Selling Nasri to another English club doesn't look like a statement of intent - Or does it? - Well maybe but unfortunately the statement would read 'we're trying our hardest to come 4th again so we can pay off another 25 million to the banks for our lovely new stadium. We're not really bothered about the poor sods who pay the highest season ticket prices in the world to watch 3rd rate shite like Rosicky,Diaby,Denilson and Eboue though'

I happily predict that this upcoming season will be Wenger's last and then we can start again.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_7015881,00.html?utm_source=twitterfe ed&utm_medium=twitter

I don't think he's lying. That sounds consistent with the article I read about him some months back. It had quotes from an Arsenal rep who said out of all the talented French players of that particular generation, Nasri was the one that stood out because he had a genuine love for football. He's a fan and just eats, sleeps, breaths football.

We've got a serious problem with the team. They see the lack of ambition and they're jumping ship.

[AKBapologist]

Would have more respect for him if he actually took responsibility for being shit for all but 4 months here.

[milla]

Would have more respect for him if he actually took responsibility for being shit for all but 4 months here.

Not entirely his fault if the rest of the team was also shit and the fact that the manager couldn't find suitable replacement when it was clear Nasri was burnt out. :coffee:

[Özim]

Bes thing for Nasri is for him to move to a club who want to win, he isn't going to win anything here with a muppet of a manager who reckons 4th place is a great achievement.

As I've said before with a manager with an attitude that winning isn't that important it's no surprise top players want to leave, sadly for us the greedy board have been happy to keep him onboard due to his money making skills, which let's face it regular fans couldn't give a toss about when the team is suffering because of it.

[Özim]

Not entirely his fault if the rest of the team was also shit and the fact that the manager couldn't find suitable replacement when it was clear Nasri was burnt out. :coffee:
Manager says he takes full responsibilty for the collapse at the end of the season, but as far as I can see all that involves is coming out with a few hollow words. The fact is it's the managers job to make sure he manages his squad and players and motivates all that, AW does a poor job on all counts, if players don't perform for one reason or another he should have quality replacements to step in, he never does though.

At the end of the day Nasri had a decent season in my book, a big improvement on previous seasons, with one year left can't blame him for looking elsewhere when our top players want to leave and there's still no sign of quality signings (Gervinho doesn't count as one in my book, he's another untested project).

[Joker]

Couldn't agree more with Niall Quinn.

I'm not bothererd at all by Clichy going - Same as Toure - He's had his day with us - In fact he probably hasn't been the same since his part in the Birmingham fiasco the day Eduardo had his leg snapped.

Selling Nasri to another English club doesn't look like a statement of intent - Or does it? - Well maybe but unfortunately the statement would read 'we're trying our hardest to come 4th again so we can pay off another 25 million to the banks for our lovely new stadium. We're not really bothered about the poor sods who pay the highest season ticket prices in the world to watch 3rd rate shite like Rosicky,Diaby,Denilson and Eboue though'

I happily predict that this upcoming season will be Wenger's last and then we can start again.

Well said, the club takes its supporters for mugs. I do expect this season to be Wenger's last, as the predictable end of the season capitulation will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and with many supporters having had enough of Wenger destroying our club, the intensity of feeling will be too much for our board to ignore.

[Boss]

For all the people calling Nasri shit on here, and saying he only performed for 4 months...

He scored more goals last season than Nani, Walcott, Bale, Drogba, Modric, the same amount as VdV and one less than Rooney. Most of those players make various 'players of the season' teams and are jizzed about numerous times on here.

All the 'he wants more money' nonsense is only fuelled by press talk, the two interviews he's given (one a few months ago and one yesterday) both state he wants to win things and needs to see proof that we're moving towards that.

Can't understand some of the hate on here.

[Özim]

Can't understand some of the hate on here.
Me neither, it seems that as soon as a player says or does something they don't want to hear they make him public eneney number.

The fans don't believe Wenger can win anything anymore, he doesn't seem too bothered about making quality signings that will make a difference, so why should players who have one year left sign up for another few years when they could go to a club with better prospects and more ambition.

Don't blame the guy and if Wenger doesn't sign any decent players soon he'll be making the right choice for his career if he decides to move on IMO.

[Master Splinter]

He scored more goals last season than Nani, Walcott, Bale, Drogba, Modric, the same amount as VdV and one less than Rooney. Most of those players make various 'players of the season' teams and are jizzed about numerous times on here.



Drogba, Nani and Rooney have proved their abilities over numerous seasons. Nani and Rooney were also among the highest assisters. They have all won many titles. Walcott is far more efficient, as he is injured often but still provides a higher assists and goals ratio. Modric plays as a central midfielder. He's not a forward player like the others. He's better than Bale, I'll give you that.

People on GW often mock stats, and to be fair and consistent, we could mock them here too. As in, "Alot of his goals came against lower-placed teams, as +1s in losses, in Cup ties and there were a few penalties too." I've seen this logic used to degrade the acheivements of other players before.

If he's going for titles, choosing United would be understandable. Choosing City would not be. They may be contenders in the future, but so far they have only won one FA Cup so have no pedigree.

[Coney]

Drogba, Nani and Rooney have proved their abilities over numerous seasons. Nani and Rooney were also among the highest assisters. They have all won many titles. Walcott is far more efficient, as he is injured often but still provides a higher assists and goals ratio. Modric plays as a central midfielder. He's not a forward player like the others. He's better than Bale, I'll give you that.

People on GW often mock stats, and to be fair and consistent, we could mock them here too. As in, "Alot of his goals came against lower-placed teams, as +1s in losses, in Cup ties and there were a few penalties too." I've seen this logic used to degrade the acheivements of other players before.

If he's going for titles, choosing United would be understandable. Choosing City would not be. They may be contenders in the future, but so far they have only won one FA Cup so have no pedigree.

The problem with the stats is that they are only a partial indication of how good a player is. Seeing how many goals a player scored in Spain does not compare with how many a player scores in Italy, as Italian defences are more resiliant than Spanish ones - in any case, the kind of opposition you get in the different leagues varies a lot. Some have a couple of top teams and the rest are dross, other leagues have a higher proportion of decent teams - teams that it is harder to score against anyway. It also depends on the team he is in, how the manager wants the game played and so on. For instance if the team are a defensive one and go for strong defence and winning a lot of 1-0s, then the same player will have a poorer goal count that if he is in an attacking team where they just go for outscoring the opposition.

There are so many issues, combinations and so on that a straight 'he scored 30 last season and the other guy only scored 18 so he is shit' is not a correct assumption.

[Master Splinter]

There are so many issues, combinations and so on that a straight 'he scored 30 last season and the other guy only scored 18 so he is shit' is not a correct assumption.

Exactly. That's what I was getting at. Boss seemed to be using his goals tally as proof of his superiority. People on here have been hounded down for using stats as 'proof' before, so it is only fair to do the same for Nasri.

His goals came in a block. Players like Rooney score when it matters. It doesn't matter how many he scored. His performances were almost non-existent after Christmas. That's what matters the most.

[Joker]

It's true that Nasri failed to perform when we most needed him. Where was he against Barcelona in the 2nd leg of the UCL? Or the Carling Cup final vs Brum? How about when we needed him to show his so called world class quality at the tail end of the season? I remember very well the one-on-one he missed against Bolton, which gave an indication of what a fairweather player he is. Now, anyone can miss a one-on-one, but that miss, combined with his substandard performances since February onwards told me he's not the type of player you can rely on when the chips are down.

[Boss]

The whole team's performances bar VP were nonexistent after Christmas. Nasri's performances were also a lot, lot different. The first half he was constantly running at players, dribbling, taking shots when possible. The second half he played more of a passing game, and rarely ran at players. Was this sudden change because he 'choked' or because he was instructed to play differently?

Players like Fabregas and Nasri are among the most talented in the world, and are good enough to be a part of a title winning team. I don't think they're backed up by sufficient quality. I'd agree that they need to improve some parts of their individual games and were awful at times last season, but they are two of the players that need least improvement, which is why I can't understand the willingness to chuck them out the door by people on here that clearly aren't thinking straight.

Nasri proved he can score goals and has done it in big games before. So has Fabregas. I think saying that they choked is harsh, and their replacements would be nowhere near similar quality. People on here are butthurt over press reports even though the two have been consistent every time they've spoken.

[Boss]

It's true that Nasri failed to perform when we most needed him. Where was he against Barcelona in the 2nd leg of the UCL? Or the Carling Cup final vs Brum? How about when we needed him to show his so called world class quality at the tail end of the season? I remember very well the one-on-one he missed against Bolton, which gave an indication of what a fairweather player he is. Now, anyone can miss a one-on-one, but that miss, combined with his substandard performances since February onwards told me he's not the type of player you can rely on when the chips are down.

I've seen that 1v1 miss mentioned at least a dozen times on here, which is foolish. You can point to Titi's misses in the CL final, or Bergkamp's miss in the FA Cup semi when ManU won the treble. All top players have bad spells of form, can't see that as an excuse to get rid when he's clearly shown he has the talent to become a world class player.

[AKBapologist]

Yeah, I think Nasri choked. Cesc was injured most of the second half of a season but thats bye the bye in the grander scheme of things. I could say that there 23 years old, plenty left to give... but:
At the end of the day we support the shirt, not the players and if they want to leave for whatever reason - I see no reason why we should defend them. 14 goals, 1 assist. Not stellar tbh.

[Mr. Lahey]

Up there with Messi and Ronaldo? What are you taking? I am sure that the pharmaceutical companies would pay billions for a hallucinogenic drug of such potency.

Are you saying he doesnt have the potential to be one of the best in the world? If so id say your the one who needs to trip, get a new perspective on things.

[AKBapologist]

Are you saying he doesnt have the potential to be one of the best in the world? If so id say your the one who needs to trip, get a new perspective on things.

Nasri's less than a year younger than Messi. If he ain't up there now, he'll never be.

[Elreactor]

Both would be stupid transfers. Who will replace Clichy, Gibbs?? :lol:

And we´d let Nasri join clubs in the same league, not only Mutd or Chelsea, which are already ahead of us, but also City, which seems to be catching up? :haha:

Wenger going from Bad to Worse, if this happens. It´s so boring :yawn:

But hey, as some people say, Nasri onle gave us some months of good football, so we´ll be fine bringing in any young shit that will eventually surpass him in 5-6 years, or even use part of the failed youngsters we have wandering around :doh:

[Master Splinter]

Nasri's less than a year younger than Messi. If he ain't up there now, he'll never be.

He's actually two days younger than Messi :lol:.

And yes, Nasri will never be on that level. Freaks like Messi and Ronaldo only come around once or twice a generation.

[AKBapologist]

http://www.manchestercity.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=246133
£19mill????????

WOOOT
Wenger :bow:


Where as the express says...
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/256554/Arsene-Wenger-plans-Arsenal-double-swoop


*sigh*

[Toronto Gooner]

There is a report that the Clichy to Man Shity deal will be announced tomorrow and that "it will cost £19 million while the player himself can expect to receive a salary of £110.000 a week."


Read more: http://www.manchestercity.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=246133#ixzz1R3qo8zCy

If this is true, then Arsenal have done a very good bit of business.

Damn, beat me to it. :banghead::)

[Boss]

Ronaldo scored 12 goals in his 3rd season at ManU, scoring 4 and 9 goals in the two seasons prior.

Nasri has the ability to reach those levels (best player in the league), question is will he be given the right coaching and system in which to do so.

[Mr. Lahey]

I'm glad you raised this point, mate. The reason I think AW is correct is that by all accounts, Nasri wants upwards of £110K per week - parity with Fabregas. Now I agree 100% that we shouldn't be selling him to our rivals, and I've made my position on wholesale changes quite clear. But for me, the bottom line is twofold.

First - IMHO he hasn't done enough to merit either his demands or his behaviour. Injuries or no - he has given us barely 4 months of performances that merit what he is asking for, and tellingly he epitomised the team's falling off at the business end of the season. The highest paid player in the team should be carrying it - as Cesc has done in previous seasons - not being a passenger. And following the Adebayor debacle, AW is rightly wary of going the same way with a player who is not prepared to give 100% for the cause. Christ knows we have enough of these in our team.

Second - whatever Nasri's talent, I am inclined to be wary about what this episode says about him. Yes, its part of the modern game. But Tevez; Rooney and co. held their clubs to ransom having put in a lot more than 4 months of decent play. Refusing to sign a contract last Summer indicates to me that this move was calculated, and suggests a player, like Adebayor, motivated by money and arrogance. Will he suceed at Manure; Citeh or the Chavs? Well they can perhaps afford to take the risk more than we can because all their eggs aren't in one basket. It may be that more stellar company will bring the best out in him, but I'm not sure that this is a guy we want to depend on.

Where Wenger messed up was not loosening the purse strings just a little last season, the season before, to give Project Youth the tools it needed to win silverware, and encourage the likes of Nasri to commit to the club rather than running down their contracts. Trying the close the stable door after the horse has bolted by being panicked into giving this particular player more than he deserves now is not the right move, IMO. I'd rather the manager paid Cesc £150K per week to get him to stay. At least he has earnt the right to be the top paid player. Give Nasri north of £110K pw and every player who has given the club 15 good games will be wanting the same.

Thats a top post and your two points are very difficult to argue. I agree that The longer this thing runs on the more it smells as this move was calculated. Be it is at may his contract is up and he has every right to be looking for that payday unlike Adebayor who signed a contract and then wanted to renegotiate after one year.

My perspective is that I believe he has played well for us for 1.5 seasons rather than 4 months and I think Wenger would say the same thing. His first season was a success in my opinion and I believe that he carried the team for the first half of last season. He was brilliant and the talk about him amongst the best in the world was deserved. He faded though, he looked tired and out of gas in the second half of the season much like Wilshere did. Having said that I do believe that what he has shown in the 1.5 seasons along with his talent and potential (lets remember hes still onlyy 23) are worth the $$$ hes asking for. Even other clubs agree with that as they are willing to pay him that money. You can speculate as to what their motives are but it is what it is, they believe that he is worth the risk/money.

As for his attitude, I believe the attitude of the team reflects the atttitude of the Manager. Wenger lets this team get away with alot of lacklustre performances. Get a Manager in that can keep his team focused and I believe that you would see differrent results.

Then there is the whole other issue on the impact of selling him has on the club. Even if we dont sell to a rival it shows that we cant keep hold of our top players and that we are willing to talk to anyone about any of our players if the price is right. This is becoming a big problem as having such a high turnover of quality players will not get you anywhere near a trophy. Its suicide. For me this outweighs the negatives of giving the money to Nasri.

[Toronto Gooner]

Ronaldo scored 12 goals in his 3rd season at ManU, scoring 4 and 9 goals in the two seasons prior.

Nasri has the ability to reach those levels (best player in the league), question is will he be given the right coaching and system in which to do so.
So basically what you are saying is that you are an ABW (anyone but Wenger).

[Mr. Lahey]

[QUOTE=AKBapologist;16677]Nasri's less than a year younger than Messi. If he ain't up there now, he'll never be.[/QUO

Im not saying hes going to be as good, im saying he will be talked about as being one of the best players in the world along with Messi and Ronaldo

[Mr. Lahey]

Ronaldo scored 12 goals in his 3rd season at ManU, scoring 4 and 9 goals in the two seasons prior.

Nasri has the ability to reach those levels (best player in the league), question is will he be given the right coaching and system in which to do so.

Exactly!! Theres so much more yet to come from him. Sell him now and we will watch him become one of the best of the world somewhere else while we are sitting here twiddling our thumbs talking about how we never replaced Nasri properly.

[Toronto Gooner]

There you go again, you and your fucking plaque in Armoury Square. Even so, I'll let you know when I need you to tell me what constitutes a proper Arsenal supporter, if that's okay with you matey? 1965 has the edge on me, by a few years but not many. It just so happens I don't like seeing the club getting raped by a bunch of greedy cunts in Savile Row clobber, okay? If you want to suck their dicks and sing about the good times and the bad times then you get on and do that. But I want the business of the club to be conducted on the pitch rather than in some fucking estate agents office. It's about WINNING, sunshine - haven't you managed to figure that much out in 40 years? Not every year, not even most years. But you enter each and every fucking season with the intention of winning everything and finishing top of the tree and you try your damn hardest to ensure all the pieces are in place to ensure that happens. If you are happy to conclude that 6 years of neglect in the transfer market hasn't left AT LEAST £4mill down the back of the sofa in change then fine, but I'll stick with my assessment of how trivial that amount is considering how many pennies we've pinched over the years. We can moan and whine and fucking bleat about Chelsea and City all we want or we can spend the FEW QUID required to take us on to what we've been threatening to do for years, fucking win something! Wenger is full of shit. He's happy to spend £13million on shit like Koscielny and Squillaci but he can't raise the funds for a proper fucking defender. He'll stalk a pile of shit like Chamakh until he can get him for free (the tight wad) and then he'll pay the cunt who the fuck knows what in wages, but he won't pay Nasri the going rate (a rate which other clubs are prepared to pay). We can do the fucking poundstretcher thing all we want and the end result will be the same, everyone knows it including surely Wenger. Even he must have got a clue by now. How many years has he been fucking around with the defence just so he can avoid spending proper money on proper players? How much money has he pissed down the drain in the process? How many fucked-up games where the defence has killed us? I suppose it takes a real fan to just accept that and applaud every time the accountants give the thumbs up.

So here we are. A bunch of fucking losers in the boardroom. A fucking loser as a manager. A team of the most ridiculous losers you're ever likely to encounter in the history of the game - who collapses like us after all? And to be a good fan, well guess what - you need to be a loser too and you need to like it! Nah - not my style at all. I guess we've both got long memories and it's a long time since I've seen such a losing attitude at this club and I don't think I've ever seen a losing attitude held up as a virtue. Fuck each and every one of the losers, get me some winners and if they cost a MERE £4mill more than that tight wad is prepared to pay then fuck him out the door and get someone who will do what's fucking required to win. It's sport, not an accountancy lecture. I'll agree with this "prudent" shit once Man Utd, Chelsea and City are out of business - bankrupt.

Ain't happening - is it! Oops, another one of Wenger's grand theories hits the shitter.
Rather than going off on a rant, it would be a good idea to actually answer the question the question I posed? Is it good business to consistently pay 30% higher than your valuation for something? Would you pay a 30% premium when buying a house?

he can't raise the funds for a proper fucking defender. I do not disagree but I would disagree in the assessment that Cahill is that proper fucking defender.

As for my reference to the Armoury Square plaque was to emphasise that I have supported the club long enough to have seen far worse times. The 1969 League Cup final being one.

[Toronto Gooner]

[QUOTE=AKBapologist;16677]Nasri's less than a year younger than Messi. If he ain't up there now, he'll never be.[/QUO

Im not saying hes going to be as good, im saying he will be talked about as being one of the best players in the world along with Messi and Ronaldo
I think that Nasri has the ability to be amongst the best attacking midfielders in the world. However, he will never be at the same level as Messi and Ronaldo. In my opinion, he will never be competing for the World Player of the Year award.

[Boss]

So basically what you are saying is that you are an ABW (anyone but Wenger).

All I can say is that I think Nasri would already be a beast under Guardiola or Ferguson.

His career is stalling because of Wenger.

[Darth Vela]

19M :haha:

If that's true then whoever was doing that negotiation really needs to get motoring into our other talks.

Still not sure about Nasri, giving our players fucking massive contracts when they haven't really earnt them (the issue of our youngsters being on a little more is a slightly different issue imo as that was at a time when we needed to keep them) is a bad path to start down but if we lose Cesc then we can't lose Nasri, and vice-versa; have to wait and see and trust the club know what they're doing.

[Mr. Lahey]

[QUOTE=Mr. Lahey;16698]
I think that Nasri has the ability to be amongst the best attacking midfielders in the world. However, he will never be at the same level as Messi and Ronaldo. In my opinion, he will never be competing for the World Player of the Year award.

Fair enough. He's already achieved (individually) what Ronaldo has at this point in his career. For me the potential for him to be on that level is obviously there.

[Toronto Gooner]

All I can say is that I think Nasri would already be a beast under Guardiola or Ferguson.

His career is stalling because of Wenger.
???? You do realise that last season (under Wenger) was his best yet?

Now, it might be that his career will stall in the future but I would argue that it has got better in the 3 years he has played under Wenger.

[AKBapologist]

Trying to pay 30% less than the market value for something isn't good business too. There are risks in every path, overspending, underinvestment or just standing still. We're just starting to see the negative effects our particular route provides.

[Toronto Gooner]

[QUOTE=Toronto Gooner;16704]

Fair enough. He's already achieved (individually) what Ronaldo has at this point in his career. For me the potential for him to be on that level is obviously there.
At the age of 24, Nasri has had 290 appearances, scored 39 goals and has 43 assists, with 22 French caps, 2 goals and 3 assists.

At the same age, Ronaldo had 292 appearances and 118 goals (with the final three season totals being 23, 42, and 26). Internationally, Ronaldo had 60 caps with 21 goals.

For full "comparison", Messi has 269 appearances, 180 goals and 73 assists. Internationally, he has 61 caps, 17 goals and 14 assists.

[Toronto Gooner]

Trying to pay 30% less than the market value for something isn't good business too. There are risks in every path, overspending, underinvestment or just standing still. We're just starting to see the negative effects our particular route provides.
To be pedantic, it is trying to pay about 25% under the value Bolton are apparently placing on Cahill. The question is whether Cahill is worth 17 million.

And if you can get something at a 25% discount, then that is good business. That is why people always try to bargain down the price where ever possible.

[AKBapologist]

If we managed to sell Clichy for £19mill, then yes, the market value for Cahill would be around £17mill.

If we are under bidding and not getting the targets, that is a problem.

[Toronto Gooner]

If we managed to sell Clichy for £19mill, then yes, the market value for Cahill would be around £17mill.

If we are under bidding and not getting the targets, that is a problem.
I totally agree with the second sentence, although I would add the word "right" before target, as I am still not convinced that Cahill is the right player. As for the first sentence, I would think that many would suggest that Cahill's value should be higher than Clichy's.

[Mr. Lahey]

[QUOTE=Mr. Lahey;16709]
At the age of 24, Nasri has had 290 appearances, scored 39 goals and has 43 assists, with 22 French caps, 2 goals and 3 assists.

At the same age, Ronaldo had 292 appearances and 118 goals (with the final three season totals being 23, 42, and 26). Internationally, Ronaldo had 60 caps with 21 goals.

For full "comparison", Messi has 269 appearances, 180 goals and 73 assists. Internationally, he has 61 caps, 17 goals and 14 assists.

thanks for those stats...there is a big there for sure. I still believe he will be up there as one of the best in the world.

[Niall_Quinn]

Rather than going off on a rant, it would be a good idea to actually answer the question the question I posed? Is it good business to consistently pay 30% higher than your valuation for something? Would you pay a 30% premium when buying a house?

It's a loaded question, dishonest. Since when have we "consistently" paid 30% over odds for anything? But we've under-invested by a significant amount as we've seen from the repeat calamities on the pitch. How come 6 years of underinvestment goes unmentioned whilst a MERE £4mill creates talk of "premiums" and over-payment? We already know what we get with the bargain basement left-overs, don't we? We should have plenty to spare in the tight-wad's kitty, 6 years of raping the fans and boasting about profits and topping football's rich list. What was it all for if not to improve things on the pitch?

Even if pure business, which football isn't, it's all well and good for a factory producing widgets to penny pinch - provided they don't end up producing shit widgets that nobody wants to buy. Penny pinching for the sake of penny pinching is not admirable or advantageous by default. The end result counts too.

[Toronto Gooner]

It's a loaded question, dishonest. Since when have we "consistently" paid 30% over odds for anything?
Why is it a loaded question? It is pretty simple. You have a budget of 700,000 and the house you "love" is 1,000,000: Would you pay the extra 300,000? People pay more than the asking/list price because they let their emotions dictate the purchasing decision.


How come 6 years of underinvestment goes unmentioned whilst a MERE £4mill creates talk of "premiums" and over-payment?
Perhaps it is because you spoke specifically about Arsenal allegedly wanting to pay just 13 million and Bolton wanting a mere extra 4 million, valuing Cahill at 17 million.

I was not addressing the issue of whether Arsenal have bought the right players. I was addressing the question of whether it is good business practice to pay a 30% premium above the club's valuation for a player to fill one position. I am not certain what you consider football but it is reality part of the entertainment business. In ALL situations of commercial enterprise, the object of the game is to make enough money to cover the start-up, capital and operational costs, with a certain level of extra money for the investors and shareholders. In the case of a commercial enterprise in the not-for-profit sector, there is still a need to cover the costs with a some extra money (usually called a margin).

Now if you wish to discuss the past 6 to 7 years of player purchases, I am more than willing to do so. I suspect that we might actually find more than a few areas of agreement.


Even if pure business, which football isn't, it's all well and good for a factory producing widgets to penny pinch - provided they don't end up producing shit widgets that nobody wants to buy. Penny pinching for the sake of penny pinching is not admirable or advantageous by default. The end result counts too.
As I noted above, I am not certain what you mean by pure business, as every commercial enterprise is a business.

[Niall_Quinn]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

[ElusiveGooner]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

:gp:

In fact, that is a fantastic post.

[Kaiser]

:gp:

Brilliant as always.

(Btw the DM has pictured Clichy in Manchester with his agent Darren Dein, the utter cunt).

[selassie]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

:gp: :gp: :gp:

Superb post NQ.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Outstanding post NQ.

[IBK]

Me neither, it seems that as soon as a player says or does something they don't want to hear they make him public eneney number.

The fans don't believe Wenger can win anything anymore, he doesn't seem too bothered about making quality signings that will make a difference, so why should players who have one year left sign up for another few years when they could go to a club with better prospects and more ambition.

Don't blame the guy and if Wenger doesn't sign any decent players soon he'll be making the right choice for his career if he decides to move on IMO.

I think you and Boss are confusing 2 issues.

Yes - agitating for a bigger pay day/wanting to win things are pretty standard for footballers these days, and given that a lot of Gooners are losing/have lost faith with AW you can't really blame players for feeling the same.

But the real issue here is whether Nasri merits being the highest wage earner at the club. He was on fire for 4 months last season, but if people really think he compares, consistency and performance wise to the likes of Rooney, Drogba - hell even VDV who for most of last season was Spurs' most important player, then they are much mistaken. As I said earlier, if you talk the talk you need to walk the walk, and Nasri's loss of form was perhaps the most conspicuous of anyone's during our dismal collapse.

The bottom line is that fingers would not be pointed at all if Nasri hadn't made himself into the latest in a long line of Arsenal players who show a single season or less of top form, and then think that they have made it. People slag off Cesc as well, but how many seasons of good form has he given us? Compare and contrast the likes of Adebayor, Flamini and Hleb.

Interestingly, since Bale and Modric have been brought up, Bale signed a 50K a week deal in 2010, and increased this to £70K in March following a pretty amazing 2 seasons. Modric signed a 7 year 70K pw deal in 2010. Nasri refused to sign last year and wants £110K plus pw or he's threatening to run his contract down and join our fiercest rivals. I don't think its too difficult to see where the antipathy is coming from.

[Marc Overmars]

I wonder if Nasri turns up to training today. And Cesc for that matter.

[Boss]

I think you and Boss are confusing 2 issues.

Yes - agitating for a bigger pay day/wanting to win things are pretty standard for footballers these days, and given that a lot of Gooners are losing/have lost faith with AW you can't really blame players for feeling the same.

But the real issue here is whether Nasri merits being the highest wage earner at the club. He was on fire for 4 months last season, but if people really think he compares, consistency and performance wise to the likes of Rooney, Drogba - hell even VDV who for most of last season was Spurs' most important player, then they are much mistaken. As I said earlier, if you talk the talk you need to walk the walk, and Nasri's loss of form was perhaps the most conspicuous of anyone's during our dismal collapse.

The bottom line is that fingers would not be pointed at all if Nasri hadn't made himself into the latest in a long line of Arsenal players who show a single season or less of top form, and then think that they have made it. People slag off Cesc as well, but how many seasons of good form has he given us? Compare and contrast the likes of Adebayor, Flamini and Hleb.

Interestingly, since Bale and Modric have been brought up, Bale signed a 50K a week deal in 2010, and increased this to £70K in March following a pretty amazing 2 seasons. Modric signed a 7 year 70K pw deal in 2010. Nasri refused to sign last year and wants £110K plus pw or he's threatening to run his contract down and join our fiercest rivals. I don't think its too difficult to see where the antipathy is coming from.

The 'him wanting 110k per week or threatening to walk' is all based on press nonsense, nothing else. One week they say he'll leave, one week they say he'll stay.

Both times he's spoken out in the press he's been clear about what he wants. Van Persie had the same thoughts last season. PnG has given various reasons why Nasri isn't the type to be a mercenary - now this may be nonsense and he may only be in it for the money but PnG's reasons are far more valid than any press bollocks.

If we strengthen our squad and then he leaves, I'll abuse him for the mercenary he'll have proven himself to be. If you expect him to tolerate Wenger's garbage when none of the fans are, I don't see how he can be accused of being greedy.

[Flavs]

Clichy having a medical at Citeh right now and apparently Alvarez is off to Inter as well :doh:

Will be interesting to see who comes back fro preseason training

[milla]

Clichy having a medical at Citeh right now and apparently Alvarez is off to Inter as well :doh:

Will be interesting to see who comes back fro preseason training

Denilson, Almunia, Squillaci, Diaby, Chamakh, Bendtner.. all world class imo. :coffee:

[danisinkz]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.


Great post! Baaaa aaaa aaaa aanngg On!

[IBK]

Thats a top post and your two points are very difficult to argue. I agree that The longer this thing runs on the more it smells as this move was calculated. Be it is at may his contract is up and he has every right to be looking for that payday unlike Adebayor who signed a contract and then wanted to renegotiate after one year.

My perspective is that I believe he has played well for us for 1.5 seasons rather than 4 months and I think Wenger would say the same thing. His first season was a success in my opinion and I believe that he carried the team for the first half of last season. He was brilliant and the talk about him amongst the best in the world was deserved. He faded though, he looked tired and out of gas in the second half of the season much like Wilshere did. Having said that I do believe that what he has shown in the 1.5 seasons along with his talent and potential (lets remember hes still onlyy 23) are worth the $$$ hes asking for. Even other clubs agree with that as they are willing to pay him that money. You can speculate as to what their motives are but it is what it is, they believe that he is worth the risk/money.

As for his attitude, I believe the attitude of the team reflects the atttitude of the Manager. Wenger lets this team get away with alot of lacklustre performances. Get a Manager in that can keep his team focused and I believe that you would see differrent results.

Then there is the whole other issue on the impact of selling him has on the club. Even if we dont sell to a rival it shows that we cant keep hold of our top players and that we are willing to talk to anyone about any of our players if the price is right. This is becoming a big problem as having such a high turnover of quality players will not get you anywhere near a trophy. Its suicide. For me this outweighs the negatives of giving the money to Nasri.

Excellent debate. Essentially this comes down to whether Nasri's potential is worth £110K pw. I don't deny he's played well, generally as my username shows - but a cursory glance at fans' votes for POTS this season and last suggest that he is not regarded as the best player at the club - which is what he wants his wages to reflect. As I've mentioned above, compare him to Modric or Bale - and I think some perspective kicks in.

Funnily enough, I am happy to agree that the club does, perhaps need to make a move that for once isn't governed purely by book-balancing, because this obsession is largely what has got us into the mess we are in now. But should this be in the form of paying over the odds for Nasri? I have to say no - given what we have seen of his attitude. I think we have to ask why he refused to sign last year - as you acknowledge, this looks calculated and tactical - and suggests a player whose priorities are financial, despite what he says. Nothing wrong with that, people may say. Well I think there might be. Look at the last player who agitated like this. What happened to his performances subsequently?

Then look at a similar parallel. Flamini runs his contract down and then plays out of his skin to secure a high profile move away. Pretty similar to what we are seeing with Nasri - and look how that ended up.

And the third point I'd raise is that of Nasri's reputation amongst senior members of the French squad. Remember the bust up with Gallas? I don't want to load too much onto this, but if a player is cocksure to the point of arrogance I would be very very wary of what he is going to be like, in the dressing room and on the pitch once he is the top wage earner at the club. Now I agree with you that Wenger's syle of management does little to keep egos under control at Arsenal. But unfortunately that's what we are going into next season with - and I have grave doubts as to whether taking the risk with Nasri will translate into the 110% committed performances that we would expect to see. I see an Adebayor MkII.

So then we turn to the wisdom of selling him to our rivals. I'm not at all happy about this - either what it says about us as a club, or the potential advantage it gives our rivals. But If I am honest, I don't see us challenging for the title next season anyway, and if the EPL is the only source of a bumper transfer fee, then I can understand the manager selling to United or Citeh. Our previous sales to Citeh haven't hurt us much - and I do feel that there is still a feeling that Arsenal attacking players are technically the very best and this commands a premium that is not always merited when you look at the complete package. I'm afraid that our status as a selling cub was established years ago, and is cemented every season we don't win anything.

[IBK]

The 'him wanting 110k per week or threatening to walk' is all based on press nonsense, nothing else. One week they say he'll leave, one week they say he'll stay.

Both times he's spoken out in the press he's been clear about what he wants. Van Persie had the same thoughts last season. PnG has given various reasons why Nasri isn't the type to be a mercenary - now this may be nonsense and he may only be in it for the money but PnG's reasons are far more valid than any press bollocks.

If we strengthen our squad and then he leaves, I'll abuse him for the mercenary he'll have proven himself to be. If you expect him to tolerate Wenger's garbage when none of the fans are, I don't see how he can be accused of being greedy.

Everything we are arguing is based on supposition; speculation and PR speak. No reason for the pro or anti Nasri camp to take the moral high ground on this. You say nonsense. I say that the fact that the player refused to sign last year, and the self-evident brinkmanship that is taking place now suggests otherswise. FWIW all this 'match my expectations' stuff we hear about these days is bollox too. Being able to understand why a player might want to try his hand elsewhere is not the same as justifying his importance for our team. In fact, for where AFC are right now - I'd say the 2 are pretty much mutually exclusive.

And that's where I'm coming from. I don't hate Nasri. I just don't think he is a player or a personality that the club should be held to ransom over.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Clichy having a medical at Citeh right now and apparently Alvarez is off to Inter as well :doh:

Will be interesting to see who comes back fro preseason training

Seems like signing him was not a bad idea after all if inter waned him.

[Marc Overmars]

Inter do have a very large South American contingent, so when they entered the frame we were always likely to come off 2nd best IMO.

Anyway, at least this means we will hopefully look for a better known alternative.

[Power n Glory]

Everything we are arguing is based on supposition; speculation and PR speak. No reason for the pro or anti Nasri camp to take the moral high ground on this. You say nonsense. I say that the fact that the player refused to sign last year, and the self-evident brinkmanship that is taking place now suggests otherswise. FWIW all this 'match my expectations' stuff we hear about these days is bollox too. Being able to understand why a player might want to try his hand elsewhere is not the same as justifying his importance for our team. In fact, for where AFC are right now - I'd say the 2 are pretty much mutually exclusive.

And that's where I'm coming from. I don't hate Nasri. I just don't think he is a player or a personality that the club should be held to ransom over.

It will be interesting to see what happens when RVP and Walcott go up for contract talks. I think we should just give him the money and make it clear that we expect a return on our investment. That's if he accepts and it's really all about the wages. But he could just be refusing to talk about a deal because he doesn't want to stay. His performance, like the rest of the team, dropped as soon as the Januray transfer window shut. I don't think anyone could believe the club could be so tight fisted and not spend when we needed a new CB. We were battling for all four trophies.

What's worse, they saw the same thing happen the season before when we needed a striker. Instead of spending, Wenger played Arshavin in the middle and that cost a few points and I'm sure it raised a few eyebrows. I know Arsahvin wasn't happy and when an experienced manager makes such a silly move, he loses the respect of his players.

Nasri's game dropped off in January when we decided not to buy. The fans were questioning the ambition of the club and I'm pretty sure the same thoughts ran through the players heads. The back to back draws and losses were pitiful and Wenger couldn't rally the troops. We all knew something was wrong in the camp and now we are seeing the fall out. Players want to leave. I don't like Nasri that much and think we can live without him, but if giving in to his 'wage demands' sets a standard that others will try to follow, selling him off will have a similar effect. RVP said we need to change our policy when we were about to lose Ade, Hleb and Flamini. He won't sign a deal if we do this again.

[Mr.Singh]

This alvarez deal has Di Maria written all over it....

[Power n Glory]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

:gp:
This dude is my hero! :)

[Ollie the Optimist]

looks like Clichy has gone then :( really sad to see him go, always gave 100%, never moaned about the club, has not issued wage demands etc for the reason why he wants to leave, hasnt alienated the fans like some. i wish him all the best

[Marc Overmars]

looks like Clichy has gone then :( really sad to see him go, always gave 100%, never moaned about the club, has not issued wage demands etc for the reason why he wants to leave, hasnt alienated the fans like some. i wish him all the best

Indeed.

Was never the best but the commitment was always there. In fact he was probably too eager sometimes which often ended up in him getting caught out at the back. Good luck to him anyway.

[IBK]

It will be interesting to see what happens when RVP and Walcott go up for contract talks. I think we should just give him the money and make it clear that we expect a return on our investment. That's if he accepts and it's really all about the wages. But he could just be refusing to talk about a deal because he doesn't want to stay. His performance, like the rest of the team, dropped as soon as the Januray transfer window shut. I don't think anyone could believe the club could be so tight fisted and not spend when we needed a new CB. We were battling for all four trophies.

What's worse, they saw the same thing happen the season before when we needed a striker. Instead of spending, Wenger played Arshavin in the middle and that cost a few points and I'm sure it raised a few eyebrows. I know Arsahvin wasn't happy and when an experienced manager makes such a silly move, he loses the respect of his players.

Nasri's game dropped off in January when we decided not to buy. The fans were questioning the ambition of the club and I'm pretty sure the same thoughts ran through the players heads. The back to back draws and losses were pitiful and Wenger couldn't rally the troops. We all knew something was wrong in the camp and now we are seeing the fall out. Players want to leave. I don't like Nasri that much and think we can live without him, but if giving in to his 'wage demands' sets a standard that others will try to follow, selling him off will have a similar effect. RVP said we need to change our policy when we were about to lose Ade, Hleb and Flamini. He won't sign a deal if we do this again.

I agree with much of that - but for me the absolute key is Nasri's game dropped off in January when we decided not to buy. If this is true then it underlines 100% why IMO we should not be pushing the boat out to keep him. If you want to be the top paid player at a club you need to be the 'go to' guy. You need to give 100%. Period. I mean its absolutely disgraceful if that is the case, when you think that his performances started dipping before we crashed out of 4 comps!!!

Honestly, for me if players are only going to put in 100% depending on whether or not the club makes transfers, then I want them out of the club ASAP. Cesc may have earnt the right to question the club's ambition, but Nasri - do me a favour - what has he ever done for our club? The more I hear about Nasri (fact or theory), the more I see him as Adebayor MkII. In short - yes we need some judicious spending/strengthening but I am becoming more and more convinced that Nasri isn't what we should be spending our money on.

[Power n Glory]

I agree with much of that - but for me the absolute key is Nasri's game dropped off in January when we decided not to buy. If this is true then it underlines 100% why IMO we should not be pushing the boat out to keep him. If you want to be the top paid player at a club you need to be the 'go to' guy. You need to give 100%. Period. I mean its absolutely disgraceful if that is the case, when you think that his performances started dipping before we crashed out of 4 comps!!!

Honestly, for me if players are only going to put in 100% depending on whether or not the club makes transfers, then I want them out of the club ASAP. Cesc may have earnt the right to question the club's ambition, but Nasri - do me a favour - what has he ever done for our club? The more I hear about Nasri (fact or theory), the more I see him as Adebayor MkII. In short - yes we need some judicious spending/strengthening but I am becoming more and more convinced that Nasri isn't what we should be spending our money on.

Besides RVP, all the players' heads dropped and it's a result of the club and managers bad decisions. When team morale drops like that, it's hard for anyone to make a serious impact and leadership should really come from the manager. It's not as if we haven't been down this road before. When we're on a run of bad results, nobody ever steps up to rally the troops. Letting another talented player leave the club won't solve that problem.

[Joker]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

Outstanding post.

[Marc Overmars]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01339/Gael_Clichy_12_682_1339417a.jpg

[Japan Shaking All Over]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01339/Gael_Clichy_12_682_1339417a.jpg

Fuck! that hurts a bit

didnt know Clichy and Nasri were sgoing in for heir medicals together

[LDG]

Clichy nicked one of the kids from the training creche. Arsene will be pissed off with that.

[IBK]

Besides RVP, all the players' heads dropped and it's a result of the club and managers bad decisions. When team morale drops like that, it's hard for anyone to make a serious impact and leadership should really come from the manager. It's not as if we haven't been down this road before. When we're on a run of bad results, nobody ever steps up to rally the troops. Letting another talented player leave the club won't solve that problem.

You don't want to/aren't able to make an outstanding impact, you don't deserve outstanding wages. last time i looked, RVP wasn't agitating for more money/refusing to renew a contract.

I agree with you about talent leaving - but I do not feel that you should just chuck money at any player who wants out. Like I say I have grave doubts over whether Nasri's worth breaking the bank over, and whether he would repaty that investment with us.

[Kano]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01339/Gael_Clichy_12_682_1339417a.jpg

the paparazzi out in full effect to greet him

[Power n Glory]

You don't want to/aren't able to make an outstanding impact, you don't deserve outstanding wages. last time i looked, RVP wasn't agitating for more money/refusing to renew a contract.

I agree with you about talent leaving - but I do not feel that you should just chuck money at any player who wants out. Like I say I have grave doubts over whether Nasri's worth breaking the bank over, and whether he would repaty that investment with us.

RVP stalled on signing his last contract and the club offered him 90k even though he has spent most of his career for us out injured.

There is a simple solution to this. Just offer him the money and let him know what we expect of him. Top money means we require top class performances week in week out. If he can’t stay motivated and deliver on his part of the deal, drop him from the first team, let him fight for his place and if he can’t win it back, put him on the transfer market.

This way, we can get a decent return on our investment, not feel forced to sell and have someone already in the squad ready to cover Nasri’s position when we sell. Most clubs do it like this.

[Cripps_orig]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01339/Gael_Clichy_12_682_1339417a.jpg

Will it be weird to see him in another kit? What kind of reception will he get when he comes back to the Emirates?

As someone said, he hasnt bad mouthed us, asked for more money etc and in fact off the pitch hes been the model citizen. On it, hes been shite ass for a few years.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ho hum for me.

[Mr.Singh]

So the great exodus begins...

[Ollie the Optimist]

Will it be weird to see him in another kit? What kind of reception will he get when he comes back to the Emirates?

As someone said, he hasnt bad mouthed us, asked for more money etc and in fact off the pitch hes been the model citizen. On it, hes been shite ass for a few years.

if he gets a bad reception, it would be a disgrace. yes he was poor in recent seasons but he never ever stopped running his heart out for us. gave his all.

[Cripps_orig]

if he gets a bad reception, it would be a disgrace. yes he was poor in recent seasons but he never ever stopped running his heart out for us. gave his all.

Dont think Clichy is/was important enough to be cheered or booed tbh. Im a bit meh tbh.

I hate that i dont give a crap about if any Arsenal player leaves and i blame Wenger for that.

[Mr.Singh]

Dont think Clichy is/was important enough to be cheered or booed tbh. Im a bit meh tbh.

I hate that i dont give a crap about if any Arsenal player leaves and i blame Wenger for that.

I like Clichy he was alright but it was not his fault that his manager did not teach him how to defend.....The person who needs to be booed is Wenger the cunt

[Cripps_orig]

Its confirmed

Clichy is now officially a Man City player

[Joker]

Clichy deteriorated badly by the end of his time here, and to be honest became a bit of liability especially in the last 3-4 years. However, I don't think we can say he wasn't trying hard enough, so he definitely doesn't deserve to be booed. Nevertheless, I'm glad he's left because we need a solid, dependable left back who can hopefully over more going forward as well (Clichy's crossing was abysmal)

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal Football Club can confirm that the transfer of Gael Clichy to Manchester City has been completed for an undisclosed fee.

Clichy, 25, joined Arsenal from Cannes in August 2003, and during his time with the Gunners made 264 appearances in all competitions.

In his debut season with Arsenal, Gael became the youngest player at the time to win a Premier League medal in 2004, aged 18 years and 10 months. Soon after, Clichy established himself as a mainstay of Arsène Wenger’s side and also a regular with the France national team.

During the 2007/08 season, the Toulouse-born defender played a total of 49 matches – more than any other Arsenal player – and was also voted into the PFA Team of the Year.

Arsène Wenger said: “We would like to thank Gael for eight years of terrific service to Arsenal, during which time he gave absolutely everything for the Club. He has grown and developed so much since joining us in 2003, and has been a crucial part of the team over recent seasons. Gael leaves with our respect and best wishes. We wish him the very best for his future career.”

Gael said: “I have had eight fantastic years at Arsenal and made many friends. I have so many great memories from my time at Highbury and Emirates Stadium. I would like to say thank you to everyone at Arsenal for all of their support and friendship. I also want to send a big thank you to all the Arsenal supporters, who have always been so good to me.”

Everyone at Arsenal would like to thank Gael for his contribution to the Club and wish him the best of luck for the future.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/gael-clichy-joins-manchester-city

[Cripps_orig]

Clichy deteriorated badly by the end of his time here, and to be honest became a bit of liability especially in the last 3-4 years. However, I don't we can say he wasn't trying hard enough, so he definitely doesn't deserve to be booed. Nevertheless, I'm glad he's left because we need a solid, dependable left back who can hopefully over more going forward as well (Clichy's crossing was abysmal)

We'll get Gibbs instead

[Joker]

We'll get Gibbs instead

I think Gibbs is a talented player (despite going off the boil a bit in the last year, after his promising breakthrough in 2009), but he still needs to learn a lot more about defending, and we can't afford to have him carry out his apprenticeship in the first team next season. If Wenger wants to rely on Gibbs as our first choice left back that'll be another mistake.

[Elreactor]

:wave: Won´t miss him.

I´d be pissed off if Nasri followed him though. He´s one of the few guys that have a lot to offer to the team, in spite of the manager.

[Marc Overmars]

No reason why he should be booed. Done his time here and fancied a change without waffling on in the press and massaging his ego.

So long Gael. :wave:

Btw he is reportedly "only" on 65k at City. Certainly not out of our structure surely? Probably suggests he left of his own accord and not because of the money on offer.

[Özim]

Been a good servant, last few seasons hasn't been that great but replacing Cole was a very tall order indeed. Clichy needed some work with a good defensive coach not someone with no clue how to build a defensive unit, when he returns he deserves some cheers if only for giving 100% during his time with us.

Well all know the inadequate, injury prone Gibbs is going to get the slot now, despite never having proven he's good enough....who can blame him though he's a winger not a full back that much is clear.......noone can tell our clueless manager though, as always he knows best...even when the team is crumbling around him and players indicate they want to leave left right and centre.

So yes well done Mr Wenger for building such great spirit and togetherness and for putting togetger the best every group of players you've ever had, even if half of them want to leave without having won anything whilst with us.

[Boss]

I will bet Clichy becomes a far better defender at Citeh.

[Marc Overmars]

http://content.mcfc.co.uk/%7E/media/Images/Home/News/Club%20news/2011/July/Clichy%20shirt%20shot1.ashx

On their website, they have the tagline "He's Gunner be good" on the homepage. :sick:

[Cripps_orig]

Is that their kit?

:sick:

[Özim]

Still from Clichy's point of view he's going to a club with ambitions to win things, rather than staying at a club who's ambition is limited to 4th place.

Unfortunately you get no medals for 4th place, I guess at the end of your career you can show your kids pictures of the table with the team lying in 4th place for x seasons instead of your medals and then explain how AW said it was a major trophy!

[Cripps_orig]

Still from Clichy's point of view he's going to a club with ambitions to win things, rather than staying at a club who's ambition is limited to 4th place.

Unfortunately you get no medals for 4th place, I guess at the end of your career you can show your kids pictures of the table with the team lying in 4th place for x seasons instead of your medals.

It is the dream.

[Power n Glory]

I'm really starting to despise Wenger. He's taking the piss.

We sell our starting left back to the richest club in the world for peanuts! This fucking club!

Before I explode, I'd like to wish Clichy luck and much success at City. He was a good chap, gave 100% every minute on the field and a had a good attitude. Made a lot of mistakes at the back, but that's partly down to bad coaching. Gibbs has a major task on his hands. He's more aggressive than Clichy and his end product is better, but he gets injured a lot and has the same lapses in concentration as Clichy. Good luck to him as well.

[budesonide]

what is with this nonsense that clichy turned so bad in the end?

he played in an average team with a shit and forever changing denfensive line-up for years! Dani Alves will be exposed badly in this team. This is the same sort of small-minded digs levelled at toure when he left.

as I have said many times, If you put put even messi in this team he will look average.

even fabregas cannot boast of a glittering record with us -- all his reputation is based on is the immense talent we witnessed when he played in one of the best club teams in history: the invincibles

he's been no better or worse than sagna! And i doubt we'll find a decent left-back of his quality on the cheap. :coffee:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Still from Clichy's point of view he's going to a club with ambitions to win things, rather than staying at a club who's ambition is limited to 4th place.

Unfortunately you get no medals for 4th place, I guess at the end of your career you can show your kids pictures of the table with the team lying in 4th place for x seasons instead of your medals and then explain how AW said it was a major trophy!

Meh Clichy is no loss, though can't wait to here how we won't win a thing for ages from him and how city is a bigger club bla bla bla, despite him contributing to us being shit.

good luck to him though at least he won't be booed coming bach here

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm really starting to despise Wenger. He's taking the piss.

We sell our starting left back to the richest club in the world for peanuts! This fucking club!

Before I explode, I'd like to wish Clichy luck and much success at City. He was a good chap, gave 100% every minute on the field and a had a good attitude. Made a lot of mistakes at the back, but that's partly down to bad coaching. Gibbs has a major task on his hands. He's more aggressive than Clichy and his end product is better, but he gets injured a lot and has the same lapses in concentration as Clichy. Good luck to him as well.

Do you think City are foolish, they know he had on year left and its not like he's worth 20 mill or even 15. End of the day they came in quick and got their man i find it strange we sold.

personally i believe Clichy like Ade was thrown to city tbh, the board want to pay of the stadium quick it seems and will kill the team to do it.

[Marc Overmars]

personally i believe Clichy like Ade was thrown to city tbh, the board want to pay of the stadium quick it seems and will kill the team to do it.

Adebayor had just signed a deal and the fans hated him, perfect time to cash in. Not comparable really with Clichy going, it's only for a feeble 7m which won't really pay the bills.

[Letters]

Still from Clichy's point of view he's going to a club with ambitions to win things, rather than staying at a club who's ambition is limited to 4th place.

Unfortunately you get no medals for 4th place, I guess at the end of your career you can show your kids pictures of the table with the team lying in 4th place for x seasons instead of your medals and then explain how AW said it was a major trophy!

It's hardly commendable to spend a sugar daddy's money until you win trophies.
The fact that City have been dragged from mid-table to the top 4 and winning trophies shows you can do it at any club. :shrug:

We should be spending more but City deserve no credit for any of the success they may buy.

[Letters]

We sell our starting left back to the richest club in the world for peanuts! This fucking club!


the fee was non-disclosed wasn't it?

[Marc Overmars]

the fee was non-disclosed wasn't it?

It's been well documented that the fee is 7m.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Adebayor had just signed a deal and the fans hated him, perfect time to cash in. Not comparable really with Clichy going, it's only for a feeble 7m which won't really pay the bills.

What i meant was i don't believe he really wanted to go in his hear of hearts, i feel its more of he was told to go but they'd make it look like he wanted out.

I suppose if we buy a replacement or don't will tell the story tbh.

[Power n Glory]

Do you think City are foolish, they know he had on year left and its not like he's worth 20 mill or even 15. End of the day they came in quick and got their man i find it strange we sold.

personally i believe Clichy like Ade was thrown to city tbh, the board want to pay of the stadium quick it seems and will kill the team to do it.

I don't think City are stupid, buy we are. We've strengthend our rivals for peanuts. This club has no ambition. We should have sold him abroad even if it meant less money. We're a backwards club.

[Letters]

It's been well documented that the fee is 7m.

Right. Does anyone think he's worth more than that? People spent much of last season slagging him off and now suddenly £7m is 'peanuts' for him? Fair enough!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't think City are stupid, buy we are. We've strengthend our rivals for peanuts. This club has no ambition. We should have sold him abroad even if it meant less money. We're a backwards club.

True

We'll get Gibbs instead

Nah we bought Jenkinson for a reason you know,

[milla]

Nah we bought Jenkinson for a reason you know,

Jenkinson is a right footed CB. :doh:

[Power n Glory]

the fee was non-disclosed wasn't it?

That's a dumb deceptive trick we've been pulling for years to try and hide from others what we've pocketed. Wenger and those asswipes must think we're playing poker. It's a card to pull on other clubs and us fans so nobody actually knows how much money we've got to spend. Sneaky cunts!

[Syn]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/gael-clichy-joins-manchester-city

Oh.

Best of luck to him. Seems like an alright guy off the pitch - never caused us any trouble. No headline-grabbing antics, no fuss, spent a lot of time here, wants a new challenge, we need changes - off you go. Fantastic attitude but unless something is done about his goldfish-memory, he'll continue being frustrating (or, as is the case now, amusing).

[Letters]

That's a dumb deceptive trick we've been pulling for years to try and hide from others what we've pocketed. Wenger and those asswipes must think we're playing poker. It's a card to pull on other clubs and us fans so nobody actually knows how much money we've got to spend. Sneaky cunts!

The figure being bandied about is £7m. I don't know if that's accurate but I don't think he's worth more than that. Like I said, people spent much of last season slagging him off, now you're moaning we let him go and he should have commanded a higher fee? Sheesh!

If we're a backwards club then we have the fans to match.

[Power n Glory]

Right. Does anyone think he's worth more than that? People spent much of last season slagging him off and now suddenly £7m is 'peanuts' for him? Fair enough!

You sell him abroad and not to your rival! Bolton ain't selling us Cahill for cheap and they're not even our rivals. How long did Young have left on his contact when he went to Manure?

[Letters]

Oh.

Best of luck to him. Seems like an alright guy off the pitch - never caused us any trouble. No headline-grabbing antics, no fuss, spent a lot of time here, wants a new challenge, we need changes - off you go. Fantastic attitude but unless something is done about his goldfish-memory, he'll continue being frustrating (or, as is the case now, amusing).

That.

[Letters]

You sell him abroad and not to your rival! Bolton ain't selling us Cahill for cheap and they're not even our rivals. How long did Young have left on his contact when he went to Manure?

Stop moving the goalposts. You said above. Twice. That we sold him for 'peanuts'.
Do you think he's worth more than £7m? Really?
The way people have slagged him off on here it's strange how they're now turning round and moaning their tits off that he's gone to a rival. If he's so bad surely they'd be glad we got that much for him? You can't have it both ways.

[Grebbo]

Clichy completed more slips than crosses, was absolutely dog shit, but we still should have got more for him. It's Man City FFS and we're a top four club - that doubles the price.

Seemed like a nice lad off the pitch so fond farewell.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm really starting to despise Wenger. He's taking the piss.

We sell our starting left back to the richest club in the world for peanuts! This fucking club!

oh come on now, lets be sensible. i know its fashionable to bash wenger these days but blaming him for selling for a reported 7 million is hardly his fault. he was most likely asked, can clichy go and answered yes and told the board to get the right price for him.

but no, these days its all wengers fault. in fact, i heard the toilets at the emirates were disgusting, wenger didnt clean them obviously, its all his fault. what a cunt

:rolleyes:

[Cripps_orig]

If Clichy plays for City as he did for us then im delighted hes gone there.

However we all know he'll do well there cos he'll actually be trained defensively.

[Cripps_orig]

these days its all wengers fault. in fact, its all his fault. what a cunt

That is your best post ever

[Syn]

Clichy completed more slips than crosses, was absolutely dog shit, but we still should have got more for him. It's Man City FFS and we're a top four club - that doubles the price.

Presumably the only reason you'd care about the price is so that we can see a return through expensive, established quality players wearing the Arsenal shirt. We got £41m in our last special offer deals to Man City; did you get the kind of return you were hoping for? Would it have been any different this time 'round?

I couldn't care less about the transfer fees - buying or selling.

[Newguy]

Presumably the only reason you'd care about the price is so that we can see a return through expensive, established quality players wearing the Arsenal shirt. We got £41m in our last special offer deals to Man City; did you get the kind of return you were hoping for? Would it have been any different this time 'round?

I couldn't care less about the transfer fees - buying or selling.

True Stories...

[Bergkampwonderland10]

If we can buy Enrique for a similar price - it will be an excellent bit of business.

[Coney]

Depends who we sell. If we didn't sell Clichy to citeh, they may well just spend a touch more and get an even better player. Same as Nasri to manu or citeh. If we don't sell, they will just go and buy some other player at a similar level. Unless a player is truly exceptional - at the level of the Bergkamps and Henries - then it does not matter so much. The only player I would not want to sell within the PL is Cesc (of the players talked about as leaving, that is).

[Alex Song Belongs]

How does Clichy leave for only 7 million pounds?? Citeh would've payed at least 15...
If we're selling players might as well take advantage of the massively inflated market!

Wenger :banghead:

[Bergkampwonderland10]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14022407.stm

[Cripps_orig]

If we can buy Enrique for a similar price - it will be an excellent bit of business.

Any chance we can get Wenger to take charge of Newcastle for a day so he can sell us Enrique for a cheap ass price?

[Letters]

How does Clichy leave for only 7 million pounds?? Citeh would've payed at least 15...
If we're selling players might as well take advantage of the massively inflated market!

Wenger :banghead:

Do you think he's worth £7m, let alone £15m? Really? He was slated on here last season, now suddenly £7m is chicken feed for him?

[Cripps_orig]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14022407.stm :pray:

[Cripps_orig]

Do you think he's worth £7m, let alone £15m? Really? He was slated on here last season, now suddenly £7m is chicken feed for him?

This is Man City we are talking about. They spent over £20m for absolute shite such as Lescott, Milner, Boateng etc. Were they worth that much?

No.

We should have got more but once again Wenger has bent over

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Have to agree we could have squeezed at least 10million out of them - maybe we will with add-ons who knows for sure.


How does Clichy leave for only 7 million pounds?? Citeh would've payed at least 15...
If we're selling players might as well take advantage of the massively inflated market!

Wenger :banghead:

[Letters]

From the old board. Thread full of posts about how crap he is, how he should go...

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=43446

Now people are whining because he's gone and we didn't get enough for him. Sheesh. If he's that crap we were lucky to get £7m.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If we're a backwards club then we have the fans to match.

Are you holding yourself up as a shining illustration of this?

Some think he is crap others think not and feel we are stregthening a rival. I suppose however the backward element of my second sentance is that we somehow remain a rival.

[Cripps_orig]

From the old board. Thread full of posts about how crap he is, how he should go...

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=43446

Now people are whining because he's gone and we didn't get enough for him. Sheesh. If he's that crap we were lucky to get £7m.

I dont have permission to view that topic :(

[Letters]

Are you holding yourself up as a shining illustration of this?

Some think he is crap others think not and feel we are stregthening a rival. I suppose however the backward element of my second sentance is that we somehow remain a rival.


His shortcomings have not been down to any injury - they arise from a consistant and prolonged period where he has demonstrated lack of judgement and unbelieveable lapses in concentration that have made him a liability to those around him.

You. About Clichy. Here:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=43446&st=15

[Letters]

I dont have permission to view that topic :(

I think guests can still see the old board? Just sign out!

[Alex Song Belongs]

Exactly... they've paid inflated prices before. 7 million is chump change for citeh!

For all his talk that he doesn't want players to leave... to show their loyalty... Wenger isn't exactly making it hard for them to leave!

[Letters]

Power_n_Glory's thoughts on Clichy from the same thread on old GW:


Clichy was shocking again.

Yeah he's been injured but even when he's on form, he's not that good. Doesn't offer much going forward, can't cross, can't defend.

And now £7m is 'peanuts' for him. :shrug:

[Alex Song Belongs]

And that was my first post on the new-look format of GW! It definitely takes getting used to... *slightly intimidated*

[Xhaka Can’t]

You. About Clichy. Here:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=43446&st=15

First of all, you keep posting links that people are unable to view.

Secondly, I've passed no comment on the value of the transfer, I've just pointed out that some felt he was crap and £7m is good business and others think otherwise an feel we have strengthened a rival on the cheap.

[Alex Song Belongs]

Letters, c'mon... Clichy was still the starting LB for a top four club. Can you see a young(ish) LB from a top club, regardless of current form, going for less than 10 mil IN THIS MARKET!

No way...


Power_n_Glory's thoughts on Clichy from the same thread on old GW:



And now £7m is 'peanuts' for him. :shrug:

[Ollie the Optimist]

has this thought occured to anyone? perhaps wenger told clichy he wasnt wanted because of his poor season and has plans to replace him already?

or is it just bash wenger because clichy left and we dont know why he left?

[dazthegooner]

We got money for him? Result !

[Letters]

Did I accidently set the old board so guests can't see it?
Oopsie!
Let me check that, we shoud be able to view it at least. I'm not deliberately posting links to things people can't see.
I can see it fine.

'Ang on.

[Xhaka Can’t]

has this thought occured to anyone? perhaps wenger told clichy he wasnt wanted because of his poor season and has plans to replace him already?

or is it just bash wenger because clichy left and we dont know why he left?

We've moved on from that and are wondering why Wenger let the toilets get into such a state. My theory on this is that he didn't buy nearly enough of them for a sixty thousand seater stadium.

[Cripps_orig]

I can go on the old board as a guest and can see it fine but when i click on the links Letters is posting, it says i cant view them