Arsenal in Crisis????

[Newguy]

So we have Clichy off to Man City, Nasri off to whoever pays the most wages, Cesc of back home to Barca, Arshavin off to galatasary, RvP now doubting his future at the club and I have just seen a rumour regarding Chelsea and Walcott...What the fcuk is going on at the club right now???

This is a full blown crisis, the vultures can smell the carcass and are circling and taking what they can.

Now obviously not all of these will happen, however I cannot remember a time where things have been so bad in regards to player uncertainty.

I have named 6 first team starters, worryingly, Arshavin, Walcott and RvP only have 2 years left on their current contracts, why would they tie themselves down to extensions when they can see the lack of ambition the club is showing?? I cant imagine the outcry losing Cesc and Nasri, but just imagine losing 4 1st team starters in one summer....only at Arsenal.

We'll be left with the kids and losers. The Denilson's, the Diaby's the Eboue's, the Squiallaci's, it's only a matter of time before Wilshere has no choice but to leave, as will Ramsey, Vermaelen and Sagna.

Crisis??? Most definitely.

[Toronto Gooner]

So we have Clichy off to Man City, Nasri off to whoever pays the most wages, Cesc of back home to Barca, Arshavin off to galatasary, RvP now doubting his future at the club and I have just seen a rumour regarding Chelsea and Walcott...What the fcuk is going on at the club right now???

This is a full blown crisis, the vultures can smell the carcass and are circling and taking what they can.

Now obviously not all of these will happen, however I cannot remember a time where things have been so bad in regards to player uncertainty.

I have named 6 first team starters, worryingly, Arshavin, Walcott and RvP only have 2 years left on their current contracts, why would they tie themselves down to extensions when they can see the lack of ambition the club is showing?? I cant imagine the outcry losing Cesc and Nasri, but just imagine losing 4 1st team starters in one summer....only at Arsenal.

We'll be left with the kids and losers. The Denilson's, the Diaby's the Eboue's, the Squiallaci's, it's only a matter of time before Wilshere has no choice but to leave, as will Ramsey, Vermaelen and Sagna.

Crisis??? Most definitely.
Crisis, what crisis? Are Arsenal going bankrupt? Are they going to have to sell their stadium? Are they going to fold the club completely and disappear off into the sunset?

Sorry, but there have been fans who have demanded activity; who have booed the team; and who generally have acted as if winning championships and trophies is their god-given right. As the saying goes "You reap what you sow".

Simple question: If Arsenal spend the next 10 years languishing in mid-table mediocrity, will you continue to support the club?

[Power n Glory]

Ah piss off with that type of talk. You don't hear anyone questioning your loyalty to the club even though your based in Canada. Do you even pay to pay to watch games?

No fan would be happy to hear about so many of their key players looking to leave the club. We still have a long way to go until the transfer window shuts but when you've seen your coach and club follow the same pattern year after year, you start to anticipate the next moves.

Wenger and the board set the bar regarding fan expections. We moved to the Emirates to compete with the bigger clubs on the pitch. Nobody pays money to see our team qualify for the CL each year and sell off our star players. That part of the deal wasn't disclosed when we were told we'd be moving to the Emirates.

[Niall_Quinn]

Crisis, what crisis? Are Arsenal going bankrupt?

Money first, football nowhere. Yes you do reap what you sow - we're seeing the results of Wenger's neglect aren't we. Even Denilson (Denilson FFS) doesn't want to stay. I guess the players and the fans were just deluded when they thought this was about football. But it's not, it's all about the money.

The directors have done rather well for themselves, don't you think? Bravo. Quite right, no crisis here.

[fari]

Money first, football nowhere. Yes you do reap what you sow - we're seeing the results of Wenger's neglect aren't we. Even Denilson (Denilson FFS) doesn't want to stay. I guess the players and the fans were just deluded when they thought this was about football. But it's not, it's all about the money.

The directors have done rather well for themselves, don't you think? Bravo. Quite right, no crisis here.

does denilson really not want to stay?? last few news reports have seemed to indicate otherwise...ah who knows what is real in this silly season

[AKBapologist]

Crisis, what crisis? Are Arsenal going bankrupt? Are they going to have to sell their stadium? Are they going to fold the club completely and disappear off into the sunset?

Sorry, but there have been fans who have demanded activity; who have booed the team; and who generally have acted as if winning championships and trophies is their god-given right. As the saying goes "You reap what you sow".

Simple question: If Arsenal spend the next 10 years languishing in mid-table mediocrity, will you continue to support the club?
Sorry Toronto Gooner, your normally the most sensible poster on here but that post was very wide of the mark. Demanding activity is not the same as seeing 3-5 of your best players leaving the squad whilst we haggle and eventually get priced out of reasonable transfer targets.

Ultimately, the club sets expectations with ticket prices. They where high before, higher now. I'd gladly support the club even if we where fighting relegation, but the reason why where pissed is that we have been "paying harrods prices whilst the club shops in primark" - Until this disconnect between the fans expectations and the clubs has been corrected, we will continue to be in crisis

[alexander]

I have been supporting Arsenal (and going to a few games each year) since 1988, when I was 8. I know the media is so much more open these days, and I read a lot more about the club than I ever did in my teenage years, but this seems like the worst it has ever been. I know from 1992 until Wenger arrived, we were mid table really, with a few cups here and there, but this is so much different. Im not worried about the club going under, but the player/contract situation is really bad. I mean, as fans we are pissed off at paying high prices and not winning, but the players earn so much, that winning must be the most important thing for (most). I mean, whats the real difference between 80k a week and 100k. When Sol came here, he could have got that money at Spurs, but he wanted some silverware, so went to a team that could do that. It seems like all our contracts are coming up at once, and players are thinking I can get more money and WIN at other clubs. Who wouldnt want that.

Wish I had not renewed my membership really, not sure I want to pay a premium for a team of mostly 2nd class players.

Cant see a way out of this mess tbh.

[Tony Tuesdays]

Well said Nigel.



Troubling times
Expected big-name departures concern former Gunner

Nigel Winterburn has labelled Arsenal's summer so far as a "disaster" as several of their key players look set to leave the club.

Sky Sports sources understand that Gunners duo Samir Nasri and Gael Clichy are on the verge of moves to Manchester City.

Meanwhile, Arsenal skipper Cesc Fabregas is expected to end years of speculation by returning to Barcelona before the start of next season.

And these seemingly imminent departures have left ex-Gunners left-back Winterburn worried about Arsenal's future prospects.

"It looks like Clichy and Fabregas could be gone by the weekend and Nasri could go, too; it's so disappointing," Winterburn told Sky Sports News HD.

"These players have gained experience with Arsenal and two of them could move on to your title contenders.

"Not only are you weakening your own team, you're strengthening the opposition; it's a disaster."

Re-focus

Nasri and Clichy's Gunners contracts expire at the end of the season, which Winterburn admits puts Arsenal in a tricky situation.

But he has urged Arsene Wenger to use any incoming funds to buy players who can take the Londoners from perennial nearly-men to Premier League champions.

"If a player gets into the last year of his contract and says: 'I want to move to Manchester United or Manchester City', I think Arsenal will admit they can't cope financially and take as much money as they can," said Winterburn.

"But it's sad because I feel this is the first time Arsenal are starting to lose players that haven't reached their peak. All you can do, though, is re-focus, get that money and strengthen the team.

"Over the last two seasons, Arsene Wenger really believed this young team was good enough to win the title. They pressed for long periods over both seasons, but came up short.

"I think Arsenal need players who have played in the Premier League, they may even need to bring some English players back in to give them that mental strength they had in years gone by.

"It looks like Gervinho will come in and fill that centre-forward role which will make them stronger from a forward perspective, but then you look at the back four, it has to be strengthened.

"Laurent Koscielny, who I still think will be decent player, is very raw and was very rash with some of challenges; Arsenal need players who can compete physically and mentally with the Premier League."

Strong

Winterburn disregarded with the notion that Arsenal need to make a 'marquee' signing, insisting that the quality of a player is more important than their cost.

But he says the pressure will be on Wenger to get the right bodies in, with Arsenal supporters getting frustrated by the club's lack of progress.

"When Arsenal signed Patrick Viera and Thierry Henry, there was no suggestion of £30million," Winterburn added. "It's about getting the right player for the right money.

"Arsenal have to be really strong next season because some of the supporters have been voicing their concerns.

"And with the increase in the prices of the tickets, they want to see their team really strengthened and push the likes of Man United, Chelsea and, to a certain degree, Man City."




http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,19494_7013451,00.html

[Ollie the Optimist]

it may seem like we are in crisis now but come august 31st when the window shuts, i dont think we will be. i honestly do not believe wenger is doing fuck all right now, the man is intelligent ffs, we will not be sitting around, he knows what the fans want, he knows the team needs improving. how do we know that with the nasri and clichy deals that we havnt managed to get a player to be involved it in to come to us? we have been linked to lots of players, wenger has shown he is ready to splash out, he bid 16million for jones and there is no blame attached to wenger there for not getting him either.

[Joker]

If we don't replace the players departing with top quality signings, then yes it will definitely be a crisis. Unfortunately, Wenger's peformance in the transfer market in the last few seasons has been abysmal, so I don't have high hopes that he'll get things right this summer.

Ultimately, all this is not surprising when we have a board and manager who put profits before success on the pitch. They are like parasites, leeching from the fans but giving very little back in return apart from empty platitudes.

[AKBapologist]

it may seem like we are in crisis now but come august 31st when the window shuts, i dont think we will be. i honestly do not believe wenger is doing fuck all right now, the man is intelligent ffs, we will not be sitting around, he knows what the fans want, he knows the team needs improving. how do we know that with the nasri and clichy deals that we havnt managed to get a player to be involved it in to come to us? we have been linked to lots of players, wenger has shown he is ready to splash out, he bid 16million for jones and there is no blame attached to wenger there for not getting him either.

By August 31st, we could already be out of the CL :coffee:
"Waiting around" for bigger clubs to make transfers hasn't worked in the past. I think he's waiting to pick off unwanted players from Real Madrid but something tells me that annual player churn will be less this summer.

[Coney]

Winterburn disregarded with the notion that Arsenal need to make a 'marquee' signing, insisting that the quality of a player is more important than their cost.

But he says the pressure will be on Wenger to get the right bodies in, with Arsenal supporters getting frustrated by the club's lack of progress.

"When Arsenal signed Patrick Viera and Thierry Henry, there was no suggestion of £30million," Winterburn added. "It's about getting the right player for the right money.


Indeed. And that is exactly what Wenger and Gazidis are saying. They also have said, in effect, that the experiment has not worked and they need to take a different tack. Looks like everyone is in agreement then.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Crisis? Not yet but I'd say this is the biggest turning point at AFC in a while. Player unrest is seemingly at an all-time high. Nasri should be punished for his comments today. It really doesn't help attract the players we need so desperately to attract - quite the opposite in fact. There is no way he should be allowed to make those sort of comments public. He can say what the hell he wants to Wneger and his staff but don't put off potential signings by flaunting how crap we've been in the papers. Not helpful in the slightest. What we need is for our players to look like they are 'one' even if they are not. Cannot believe we have been so slow to get going in the transfer market when our needs are so obvious. Wenger foot shot himself in yet again.

[Toronto Gooner]

Sorry Toronto Gooner, your normally the most sensible poster on here but that post was very wide of the mark. Demanding activity is not the same as seeing 3-5 of your best players leaving the squad whilst we haggle and eventually get priced out of reasonable transfer targets.

Ultimately, the club sets expectations with ticket prices. They where high before, higher now. I'd gladly support the club even if we where fighting relegation, but the reason why where pissed is that we have been "paying harrods prices whilst the club shops in primark" - Until this disconnect between the fans expectations and the clubs has been corrected, we will continue to be in crisis
Wide of the mark? Maybe, but at least it got people talking rather than just putting down a sequence of hyperventilating thoughts. I do not disagree that there are some major problems with the team, the team and the manager that need to be addressed. However, I think that I have a different definition of what is a crisis.

[Power n Glory]

Nothing wrong with Nasri's comments. It won't stop players from coming here. Making a £7m bid for a player worth £10m+ will. The club have hardly sent out the right message with their actions and words and I don't think the players could say anything which people don't already suspect. We lack ambition.

Comments like this a far worse.


‘One sign of intelligence in life is to not always to want what you don’t have. Appreciate what you have.’

Wenger is a disgrace. That's an insult to the fans. 'Sign of intelligence', come on now, he's taking the piss. He should have told himself that when he was promoting the need for a new stadium. The prick!

[Coney]

Crisis? Not yet but I'd say this is the biggest turning point at AFC in a while. Player unrest is seemingly at an all-time high. Nasri should be punished for his comments today. It really doesn't help attract the players we need so desperately to attract - quite the opposite in fact. There is no way he should be allowed to make those sort of comments public. He can say what the hell he wants to Wneger and his staff but don't put off potential signings by flaunting how crap we've been in the papers. Not helpful in the slightest. What we need is for our players to look like they are 'one' even if they are not. Cannot believe we have been so slow to get going in the transfer market when our needs are so obvious. Wenger foot shot himself in yet again.

I'll go along with the point about it being a major turning point. I'll give Wenger more time in the window to see what he buys but unless there are signs in a change of policy - buying Cahill for a lot of money would be a good indication - then I think next season will see even Wenger fans (like me) saying that it is time to move on.

I think it was OK to give Wenger a chance with the experiment while we were doing the new stadium thing, but it had to get a result or stop at some point and I think maybe we have gone on a bit too long. You can always say 'well, it is nearly there, let's just try this one thing more' each season but at some point you have to call it a day.

I think we should have looked at that last year after another collapse in the final part of the season but who can say - if Chamakh had turned out to be a good buy and scored just a few more, maybe... etc... ... ... but for me, the 4-4 at Newcastle was the time to step back and say we really MUST do something about the backbone. And I think this time, he will. If not, then I am leaving the optimism clique and calling for a change of manager.

[Cripps_orig]

By August 31st, we could already be out of the CL :coffee:
"Waiting around" for bigger clubs to make transfers hasn't worked in the past. I think he's waiting to pick off unwanted players from Real Madrid but something tells me that annual player churn will be less this summer.
Dont forget we play Newcastle away, Liverpool and Man Utd all before August 31st, 3 games we were either embarrassed or humiliated in last season so we could be out of the title race by the 31st.

[Master Splinter]

If not, then I am leaving the optimism clique and calling for a change of manager.

You're not a member though :unsure:.

But you should be.

Resistance is futile.

[Coney]

You're not a member though :unsure:.

But you should be.

Resistance is futile.

You are referring to the Mindless Optimism Clique. I am just in the Optimism Clique. ;)

[Master Splinter]

I am just in the Optimism Clique. ;)

No such thing.

Join us :threaten:

Or be square.

[Coney]

No such thing.

Join us :threaten:

Or be square.

I refuse to submit to violent threats unless they are here and I have nowhere to run.

[gunnerrrrr]

We are where we are because of Wenger.
Comments during the season about considering it a success if we finish second only highlight a lack of ambition on his part which will filter through to the players like a disease.
You then have your captain who blatantly does not want to be at the club, desperate to leave which only makes the better players think that they should leave too.
The funniest thing about this whole situation is the Denilsons, Bendtners etc of this world, all the ego, no idea of how average they are...put themselves on the market and no one gives a shit...lol

[selassie]

I don't think we're in crisis but we have some pretty extreme personnel issues that need sorting out.

This summer proves beyond doubt that Arsene has lost the dressing room. When 3 of your more "important" first team players want out it means they don't believe in the Manager or the system. None of this player unrest appears to be about money, it's about ambition and sporting decisions.

[Toronto Gooner]

I don't think we're in crisis but we have some pretty extreme personnel issues that need sorting out.

This summer proves beyond doubt that Arsene has lost the dressing room. When 3 of your more "important" first team players want out it means they don't believe in the Manager or the system. None of this player unrest appears to be about money, it's about ambition and sporting decisions.
Selassie,

I might agree with your assessment regarding ambition and sporting decisions when discussing Fabregas but I am not certain when discussing Clichy and possibly Nasri.

[Kano]

it's definitely a crisis when you let yourself get gassed up by the media in all its forms. too much (mis)information out there means that people think they know what is going on when really we have no clue at all.

for all the criticism a lot of fans throw at the media, its hilarious how many dont realise how they held by the nuts by them.

[Newguy]

it's definitely a crisis when you let yourself get gassed up by the media in all its forms. too much (mis)information out there means that people think they know what is going on when really we have no clue at all.

for all the criticism a lot of fans throw at the media, its hilarious how many dont realise how they held by the nuts by them.

I dont think the issue is the media, what is coming out of the club is that there is unrest, I dont think we can pull the "it's the media" card on this one.

Cesc wants out, Clichy wants out (12 months left on contract), Nasri possibly looking at options (12 months left on contract), Arshavin, Theo and RvP with only 2 years left on their contracts - these are problems because if the former 3 leave, the latter 3 will not sign, due to the clubs lack of sporting ambition, when you add to the fact that nothing being said on the contrary regarding these issues are coming from the club then I think unfortunately, the only one gassed right now is you.

Stories can be made up, but the stories concerning our players are IMO scenarios based on logical assessments due to the problems at Arsenal right now. If these stories were about the other lot down the road, I'd be saying that team is in a mad crisis right now.

Many of you "it's the media" guys really need to take note. if Cesc, nasri and Clichy go, then RvP will leave without the club heavily investing in the squad, most likely followed by Walcott. We will see how this transfer window turns out, hopefully we keep Cesc and Nasri and still add to the squad with the quality it needs and release the dead wood everyone and their mum knows needs to be kicked out the club, but based on previous experience with Wenger and this board it's unlikely that this will happen, hence the "Arsenal in Crisis??" thread title. Now if you guys feel that the stories coming out by the media is nothing to worry about please let me know what you know so I can experience this level of confidence.....

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Yes there's a lot of misinformation but then there's usually no smoke without fire and the fact Nasri has come out and said that he wants to 'win titles' and has not put pen to paper means that it's probably more than likely that he is off as he doesn't think he can win them with us. Am guessing Wenger and Nasri are both hoping for a Cesc u-turn but in all honesty I don't think it's going to happen. If you sell your star player without a ready-made replacement or a few replacements what msg does it send out ? I honestly Wenger is shitting himself right now. Clichy to Man City deal looks to have been sealed which I think is also ridiculous for 7million for a 25yr old who is probably top 10 LB in the world despite his blips. It's all going a bit pete-tong.


it's definitely a crisis when you let yourself get gassed up by the media in all its forms. too much (mis)information out there means that people think they know what is going on when really we have no clue at all.

for all the criticism a lot of fans throw at the media, its hilarious how many dont realise how they held by the nuts by them.

[Power n Glory]

The funny thing is, whenever a player is linked with a move away from the club in the press, it usually happens. When the Henry Barca link first started, we all thought it was BS, but as the season on, alarm bells started to ring when the stories kept on coming and Henry wasn't refuting any of it. Any statements he made were drenched in ambiguity.

Right now, the club is silent. Even Winterburn thinks it's a crisis and he's close to the people around the club. History is a great teacher and people should always pay attention to how we've acted in the past we've these situations. I'm far from confident. Certain players have said they are just like us fans and understand the frustration. That says a lot.

[Newguy]

Yes there's a lot of misinformation but then there's usually no smoke without fire and the fact Nasri has come out and said that he wants to 'win titles' and has not put pen to paper means that it's probably more than likely that he is off as he doesn't think he can win them with us. Am guessing Wenger and Nasri are both hoping for a Cesc u-turn but in all honesty I don't think it's going to happen. If you sell your star player without a ready-made replacement or a few replacements what msg does it send out ? I honestly Wenger is shitting himself right now. Clichy to Man City deal looks to have been sealed which I think is also ridiculous for 7million for a 25yr old who is probably top 10 LB in the world despite his blips. It's all going a bit pete-tong.

It's bad right now. My worry is that even if Wenger replaces the players that leave, what about the following year? We'll have RvP down to 12 months, aswell as Theo, if Wenger doesnt replace with the quality that leaves then we could have the same problems this time next year, only no CL football (lets not forget, that isnt even promised this season).

I feel we'll struggle to get 4th this season. Chelsea will buy, but even without strengthening they'll get top 4 as a minimum. Man U have strengthened, City will strengthen, Liverpool have strengthened. At present we are weaker now then we were last season due to the rumours that have to be causing a lot of unrest at the moment.

I hope Wenger can show the ambition that some of the senior players at the club and the supporters clearly want to see, but I feel a lot of damage has been done.

[AKBapologist]

Worth reading...
http://goonertalk.com/2011/06/29/interview-with-arsenal-supporters-trust-chief-on-fabregas-dein-more/

[Kano]

without question those players are likely to leave but the issue is whether that constitutes a crisis or not.

of those three, the fans had turned on Clichy on mass in the past two years and a majority are wanting to see the back of Cesc so we can either 'rebuild' or for the perception that his 'heart is not in it'. people were basically putting them on the list of players that they wanted out, so if they do leave it shouldn't be deemed a crisis given the backing that was give to them leaving.

what creates the crisis is the constant pumping of info from the internet, sky, radio and papers which pumps out all sorts of angles and extra tensions. the fans have created the demand for football 24/7 and the media have absolute control over the fears and anxieties of the fans, so the irony is amazing.

the perception that wenger never ever buys or spends on quality is taking everyone over, yet the very fact we have quality in the squad at all demonstrates that as an untruth.

[Elreactor]

Arshavin and RVP too?? But is it really possible that all those first team players leave? Wenger must be working out an unprecedented strategy to conquer the PL and CL at last. Unless he leaves with them.

Arsene knows. :sleep:

[AKBapologist]

@YankeeGunner: If cesc or nasri wind up staying at arsenal, what exactly are the repercussions for the journalists who made up stories about them leaving

@Skyunion:@YankeeGunner For those who write crap for a living... I expect them to get a decent pay check, and to carry on writing crap
@skyunion: @YankeeGunner more importantly, if they leave, what are the repercussions to those who thought it was all made up?

Was on the other side earlier last season. If it weren't for Arsenal doing a wonderful impression of a crisis club, almost becoming a parody of it's self, with previous transfer seasons following less to the script, I'd find these news paper headlines easier to ignore. Unfortunately, in all cases especially when papers like the times, bbc and the guardian report stuff, there is almost always more to the rumours than smoke.

[Xhaka Can’t]

For the last six years we have lived in a comfort zone nurtured by delusion.

All that has changed now is we are no longer (well most of us) delusional, we know we haven't got the stomach or commitment to compete for anthing beyond 4th and the eight figures that comes from getting fucked over in the last 16 of the CL.

There is no desire amongst the people running this Club to go beyond that at all, and now they, and Wenger are on at us for not being 'intelligent' or 'patient' in accepting our lot. All the while aiming to extract more money from the people already paying this Arsenal Football and Property Company the highest ticket prices in World Football.

But hey, it works for them - in the short term, because we'll still sell out (pun intended). Some people want to believe that the people running this company want more on the football pitch. Some people here even point to us (the fans) wanting changes and Wenger and the Board delivering on it now. Afterall, we wanted changes in the playing staff, so now we are getting what we want. Well that is bullshit. This isn't planned or managed change. This is change forced upon the Club by players who have had enough and want out.

[Marc Overmars]

I'd say the period we are going through at the moment is a bit of a crisis, relative to our stature and expectation.

[Niall_Quinn]

For the last six years we have lived in a comfort zone nurtured by delusion.

All that has changed now is we are no longer (well most of us) delusional, we know we haven't got the stomach or commitment to compete for anthing beyond 4th and the eight figures that comes from getting fucked over in the last 16 of the CL.

There is no desire amongst the people running this Club to go beyond that at all, and now they, and Wenger are on at us for not being 'intelligent' or 'patient' in accepting our lot. All the while aiming to extract more money from the people already paying this Arsenal Football and Property Company the highest ticket prices in World Football.

But hey, it works for them - in the short term, because we'll still sell out (pun intended). Some people want to believe that the people running this company want more on the football pitch. Some people here even point to us (the fans) wanting changes and Wenger and the Board delivering on it now. Afterall, we wanted changes in the playing staff, so now we are getting what we want. Well that is bullshit. This isn't planned or managed change. This is change forced upon the Club by players who have had enough and want out.

That's exactly it GB. And where's Stan? What was the whole buyout thing about if Stan is just content to carry on regardless? Surely it can't have been all about a bunch of greedy old men cashing out at a million percent profit? Is Stan just the next "stadium project"?

[selassie]

Selassie,

I might agree with your assessment regarding ambition and sporting decisions when discussing Fabregas but I am not certain when discussing Clichy and possibly Nasri.

TG,

I'll explain why I think Clichy & Nasri want to leave re: Ambition & Sporting Decisions. I do agree that there is most likely a financial element in their desire to move but I also believe that both players probably feel they have a greater chance of success elsewhere.

Let's be honest, Clichy has been here what 7 years and has seen how Arsene operates...Arsene isn't going to change, he has a set way of working and regardless of what anybody else says or thinks he will continue to work this way.

His comments this week about not rushing in the transfer market and fans that should be grateful for what we have is a "big 2 fingers up" to those who don't like how he operates.

It's his way of saying "I will do things my way, I don't care if you don't like it"

Arsene isn't going to change, Cesc knows this, Clichy knows this & so does Nasri. IMHO They no longer believe in the system, they don't want to be pampered anymore or told that they will grow into Champions, they want to be Champions now, they want to go somewhere to fight for their place in a team and win honours...that's how I see things.

[AKBapologist]

Reporting here because of relevance.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2010877/Arsenal-longer-attract-genuine-superstar-Martin-Samuel.html

[selassie]

Reporting here because of relevance.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2010877/Arsenal-longer-attract-genuine-superstar-Martin-Samuel.html

AKB...we don't buy stars we make them.

We do things "The Right Way", developing players and giving them a platform to shine.

That article does kind of tell us what we already know, it tells us that financially we can't & don't operate in the same market as the other 3 (Man U, Citeh & Chelski). In fact....we don't even operate in the same market as Spurs & Liverpool...though it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.

The article also interestingly points out the "Ambition" word.

Ambition is driven from the top through to the manager to the players, at present our club lacks "Ambition".

I'll stand by this statement that if we sell both Clichy & Nasri to Citeh, we will been seen as easy pickings by the other 3 and they will come looking for our stars every single summer.

I can live with selling our stars to Barca, Real et al, but to Citeh & our domestic rivals? Do me a favour....

[Darth Vela]

Honestly? I think things actually have to happen before a crisis occurs. IF we lose Cesc/Nasri/RvP/Theo/Clichy and only a few of them were replaced then hell yeah it's a bit of a crisis but as it stands, I'm happy to lose Clichy and one of Cesc or Nasri as I think losing both would be a bad move and I don't think either of the others are going to happen.

Given the amount of people decrying the state of our team and how major changes need to happen I'd think more people would be more open to a clearout, unless you believe that it's purely the squad players fault that we were unable to win towards the end of the season then a few bigger names leaving wouldn't be an awful thing to happen.

[Mr.Singh]

Reporting here because of relevance.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2010877/Arsenal-longer-attract-genuine-superstar-Martin-Samuel.html

He mad because he fat and can't attract women.....

[Xhaka Can’t]

DV - this isn't a planned or managed clearout - this is the Club being forced into it by players who want to leave.

You are right in that many fans wanted a clearout, but I'm guessing when wishing for a clearout, Fabregas, Nasri and Clichy were hardly at the top of peoples' list. And if those names did appear on anyone's wishlist, I doubt ALL of them appeared on any one list.

[LDG]

Honestly? I think things actually have to happen before a crisis occurs. IF we lose Cesc/Nasri/RvP/Theo/Clichy and only a few of them were replaced then hell yeah it's a bit of a crisis but as it stands, I'm happy to lose Clichy and one of Cesc or Nasri as I think losing both would be a bad move and I don't think either of the others are going to happen.

Given the amount of people decrying the state of our team and how major changes need to happen I'd think more people would be more open to a clearout, unless you believe that it's purely the squad players fault that we were unable to win towards the end of the season then a few bigger names leaving wouldn't be an awful thing to happen.

I think the squad needs a massive overhaul, but I don't think the concern is necessarily for players leaving; It's about whether we spend big and actually push the boat out a bit. Losing all the players you mentioned would be terrible, but I doubt it'll happen. Clichy / Nas / Cesc look likely, but we're capable of replacing them. Not like for like, but then that's not what I want....I want some bollocks and backbone.

[LDG]

DV - this isn't a planned or managed clearout - this is the Club being forced into it by players who want to leave.

You are right in that many fans wanted a clearout, but I'm guessing when wishing for a clearout, Fabregas, Nasri and Clichy were hardly at the top of peoples' list. And if those names did appear on anyone's wishlist, I doubt ALL of them appeared on any one list.

Cesc and Clichy were on mine.

[Marc Overmars]

It's exciting in a way because I imagine the starting 11 for August will have a very different look to it. I'm just concerned at the fact our best players are disillusioned with the club, it doesn't speak volumes for Wenger and his vision at all. You have to wonder who's turn it will be next summer and the one after. It happens all the time.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Cesc and Clichy were on mine.

Like I said, I doubt ALL would have appeared on one list.

[Kano]

at least two of those players were (Cesc and Clichy) were on fans lists and it shouldn't matter whether they are planned/mamaged departures or not. if you want someone gone, and they go, then job done surely? any effect on moral for the rest of the squad would be the same in either scenario.

[LDG]

It's exciting in a way because I imagine the starting 11 for August will have a very different look to it. I'm just concerned at the fact our best players are disillusioned with the club, it doesn't speak volumes for Wenger and his vision at all. You have to wonder who's turn it will be next summer and the one after. It happens all the time.

Yeah. This was my hope. Taking the parts that work well, and adding some tough, direct and proven quality. I think this is all people want.

I still think Vinger is bullshitting, and business will be done. Perhaps he is waiting to see if he can tempt Nasri once they get back to training. Who knows. I do think we'll go some way to revamping the side. Question is, will it be enough?

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah. This was my hope. Taking the parts that work well, and adding some tough, direct and proven quality. I think this is all people want.

I still think Vinger is bullshitting, and business will be done. Perhaps he is waiting to see if he can tempt Nasri once they get back to training. Who knows. I do think we'll go some way to revamping the side. Question is, will it be enough?

Time will tell I guess.

I just don't think Wenger is the draw he used to be.

[Darth Vela]

DV - this isn't a planned or managed clearout - this is the Club being forced into it by players who want to leave.

You are right in that many fans wanted a clearout, but I'm guessing when wishing for a clearout, Fabregas, Nasri and Clichy were hardly at the top of peoples' list. And if those names did appear on anyone's wishlist, I doubt ALL of them appeared on any one list.

Tbf, I think Clichy was on a few peoples and given the noises about Clichy have been circling (can noises do that?) for a while I'd say it's something the club has been considering as well. I think Cesc going is something that has been considered deeply from most angles by the club as it's a big issue, I feel sure we have plans for most scenarios involving him. Nasri, I think may well be an instance of someone forcing an exit but if he was really worth that much to us, we'd have paid him a little more and I'm sure he would have signed. That's beside your point though.

I'd rather keep Nasri and Cesc but when a team fails quite so obviously as we did last season with Nasri being as prominent as ever in that failure then it's difficult to see those guys going out of the door as a massive crisis. I'm afraid when you're agitating for massive changes and then agitating for less change within the space of a month then it makes it look like people ain't gonna be satisfied either way and I can't take that viewpoint particularly seriously, just the way I see it though as I'm sure others would think my tendency to defend players but also look at the benefits of losing them is sheer hypocrisy.

[fari]

Time will tell I guess.

I just don't think Wenger is the draw he used to be.

times change

[Darth Vela]

I think the squad needs a massive overhaul, but I don't think the concern is necessarily for players leaving; It's about whether we spend big and actually push the boat out a bit. Losing all the players you mentioned would be terrible, but I doubt it'll happen. Clichy / Nas / Cesc look likely, but we're capable of replacing them. Not like for like, but then that's not what I want....I want some bollocks and backbone.

Yeah, fair enough if people are just worried about replacements but it just seems deeper than that, they're happy to tell all and sundry about how much of a failure our squad is but then when the rumours about Nasri (a guy as responsible as anyone for our collapse, outside of Wenger) surface they're there to talk about how it shows a lack of ambition. Maybe I just don't like idiots but it seems to me that there's more of this weird kind of thinking that justifies being able to rant at anything and everything that happens.

[Letters]

It's a bit early to be hitting the panic button IMO.
I do think we need to make some proper signings this summer. The crowd need it as much as the squad.
And earlier in the transfer window would be better so players can bed in and so we don't have all this doom and gloom all summer (which is getting a little tiresome given that a lot of the moaning is about things which haven't even happened yet and may well not happen).

[selassie]

Yeah, fair enough if people are just worried about replacements but it just seems deeper than that, they're happy to tell all and sundry about how much of a failure our squad is but then when the rumours about Nasri (a guy as responsible as anyone for our collapse, outside of Wenger) surface they're there to talk about how it shows a lack of ambition. Maybe I just don't like idiots but it seems to me that there's more of this weird kind of thinking that justifies being able to rant at anything and everything that happens.

Come on Darth....the facts are that as a squad we fail to win anything every season, I accept that you win or lose as a team but from within the team you have some really important players who can make a difference. Nasri is one of those important players. We should be looking to add top quality players to play alongside Nasri, after all that is what he wants isn't it?

Nasri was as culpable as anybody else in our annual end of season collapse but the facts are he produced stellar form in the first half of the season, he was playing at a very high level for club & country.

We will most certainly not move forward if we continue to sell our important players every 2 years. Selling Nasri to one of our rivals is nothing short of crazy, it shouldn't be allowed to happen. What on earth are we thinking weakening our team and improving a rival? :o

[Xhaka Can’t]

Tbf, I think Clichy was on a few peoples and given the noises about Clichy have been circling (can noises do that?) for a while I'd say it's something the club has been considering as well. I think Cesc going is something that has been considered deeply from most angles by the club as it's a big issue, I feel sure we have plans for most scenarios involving him. Nasri, I think may well be an instance of someone forcing an exit but if he was really worth that much to us, we'd have paid him a little more and I'm sure he would have signed. That's beside your point though.

I'd rather keep Nasri and Cesc but when a team fails quite so obviously as we did last season with Nasri being as prominent as ever in that failure then it's difficult to see those guys going out of the door as a massive crisis. I'm afraid when you're agitating for massive changes and then agitating for less change within the space of a month then it makes it look like people ain't gonna be satisfied either way and I can't take that viewpoint particularly seriously, just the way I see it though as I'm sure others would think my tendency to defend players but also look at the benefits of losing them is sheer hypocrisy.

It isn't hypocracy to demand change and being upset with the 'change' that is occuring. In much the same way it would not be unreasonable to get rid of a wife/gf, while although reasonably pretty, just nags, spends your money, flirts and screws about with other men only to be upset you have replaced her with a truck that does the same.

The change we need is essentially in Management as it is the Manager's phiosophies that have failed. Amongst playing staff, we needed rid of the likes of Bendtner, Chamakh, Vela, Diaby, Denilson, the entire central defence bar Vermaelen, but none of them are gone yet, primarily because nobody wants them.

We are like a business that is failing and only the attractive assets are being stripped by outside investors.

[Darth Vela]

Come on Darth....the facts are that as a squad we fail to win anything every season, I accept that you win or lose as a team but from within the team you have some really important players who can make a difference. Nasri is one of those important players. We should be looking to add top quality players to play alongside Nasri, after all that is what he wants isn't it?

Nasri was as culpable as anybody else in our annual end of season collapse but the facts are he produced stellar form in the first half of the season, he was playing at a very high level for club & country.

We will most certainly not move forward if we continue to sell our important players every 2 years. Selling Nasri to one of our rivals is nothing short of crazy, it shouldn't be allowed to happen. What on earth are we thinking weakening our team and improving a rival? :o

On the basis of his early form, sure we should make him our biggest earner and sell Cesc off for whatever Barca deign to offer us whilst installing Nasri in the middle of the park no questions asked but his behaviour over this contract and his ability to disappear at the times when we needed someone of his abilities to stand up shows us a little bit about his attitude and frankly, if we can get someone a little more reliable with a better attitude, even if they don't have the same talent, I'd be happy enough.

I know we wouldn't sell him to Man U and I don't think we'd sell him to City either, although I doubt he'd improve City that much as they need more of that winning attitude we're trying to foster. so it's a little more likely. I'd rather keep him and I think the club would rather keep him but if he ain't signing a new contract and we're not willing to throw money at him then there's not much we can do about it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Time will tell I guess.

I just don't think Wenger is the draw he used to be.

Funny thing is though if he left tommrow we'd be in a bigger "crisis" then, we would be in today.

If AW rectify's the problem then we should be fine.

[Marc Overmars]

On the basis of his early form, sure we should make him our biggest earner and sell Cesc off for whatever Barca deign to offer us whilst installing Nasri in the middle of the park no questions asked but his behaviour over this contract and his ability to disappear at the times when we needed someone of his abilities to stand up shows us a little bit about his attitude and frankly, if we can get someone a little more reliable with a better attitude, even if they don't have the same talent, I'd be happy enough.

I know we wouldn't sell him to Man U and I don't think we'd sell him to City either, although I doubt he'd improve City that much as they need more of that winning attitude we're trying to foster. so it's a little more likely. I'd rather keep him and I think the club would rather keep him but if he ain't signing a new contract and we're not willing to throw money at him then there's not much we can do about it.

Of course he will improve a City squad that has already shown they are probably made of sterner stuff than us. Judging by the type of spikey character Nasri is as well, I think he is more than suited for what City need.

[Darth Vela]

It isn't hypocracy to demand change and being upset with the 'change' that is occuring. In much the same way it would not be unreasonable to get rid of a wife/gf, while although reasonably pretty, just nags, spends your money, flirts and screws about with other men only to be upset you have replaced her with a truck that does the same.

The change we need is essentially in Management as it is the Manager's phiosophies that have failed. Amongst playing staff, we needed rid of the likes of Bendtner, Chamakh, Vela, Diaby, Denilson, the entire central defence bar Vermaelen, but none of them are gone yet, primarily because nobody wants them.

We are like a business that is failing and only the attractive assets are being stripped by outside investors.

It's not hypocrisy as such, just strange (from the way I see it) to say that so many of our players are failures whilst ignoring the fact that greater responsibility means a greater share of the failure, Nasri failed big time at the end of the season along with the rest of the team but he COULD have done something about it given his level of talent, he didn't.

I don't think you're right on it being a complete failure of our philosophy, just the balance of our team and the attitude of too many of them wasn't right but that's a completely different debate that we've all had far too much.

[Darth Vela]

Of course he will improve a City squad that has already shown they are probably made of sterner stuff than us. Judging by the type of spikey character Nasri is as well, I think he is more than suited for what City need.

I don't think he's much better than Silva and with the way City play he's unlikely to get a starting berth in the middle. They've got talent but are in need of greater maturity/will to win or whatever you want to call it and I'm not convinced Nasri will help with that if his character for us is anything to go by.

[IBK]

FWIW I don't think we are in crisis. I don't even think that the Cesc/Clichy/Nasri departures represent a perfect storm, because I think that if they leave, it will be for different reasons. I believe that Cesc agreed to postpone a move to Barca for one year last Summer - and the only issue now is the transfer fee. Clichy has expressed concern that he is not seen as guaranteed starter at LB and is stale and probably needs to move on. Nasri IMHO is looking for a payday - and his wanderlust stems from last Summer, not this one.

But while there's no crisis, I believe firmly that we have seen the last act in our 'potential title winners' masquerade of the past 5 years, and that we had better get used to being a team challenging to get into the top four than being title challengers for the forseeable future.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think he's much better than Silva and with the way City play he's unlikely to get a starting berth in the middle. They've got talent but are in need of greater maturity/will to win or whatever you want to call it and I'm not convinced Nasri will help with that if his character for us is anything to go by.

They won a trophy last year and were professional enough to not to allow their league form to drop off so embarrassingly, so I don't really think their maturity problems etc are on the scale of ours like you alluded to. Wishful thinking IMO to suggest Nasri won't improve a midfield that is primarily made up of defensive midfielders.

[Darth Vela]

They won a trophy last year and were professional enough to not to allow their league form to drop off so embarrassingly, so I don't really think their maturity problems etc are on the scale of ours like you alluded to. Wishful thinking IMO to suggest Nasri won't improve a midfield that is primarily made up of defensive midfielders.

Fair enough, I still saw plenty of inconsistency from them as well, enough to make me think they need a few more guys with the right attitude but it's all pretty intangible.

Thinking about it, you're probably right about having the option for him to come into midfield improving City, when they don't need the solidity he can come in and give them a little more.

[LDG]

I think this sums it up quite nicely. Not usually one for his blogs, but I think it's a sensible view.


Arsene Wenger has never lacked faith in Arsenal's team or his methods - even when painful evidence to the contrary has piled up around him.

Wenger once responded to losing a Champions League semi-final first leg at Manchester United by publicly inviting a non-believing reporter to what he was convinced would be his victorious press conference after the return at The Emirates.

He even promised "a magnificent performance". He got one all right, only it came from Manchester United and two goals inside the first 11 minutes meant the invite to a triumph was torn up.

Still, Wenger's optimism has rarely wavered but he will need every ounce of the old conviction when he takes the roll-call for Arsenal's flight out for their Far East tour next weekend as he ponders the most turbulent phase of his tenure at the club.

It seems Cesc Fabregas is heading, finally, to Barcelona, while Gael Clichy is off to Manchester City and Samir Nasri may well also be Manchester-bound - although his final destination could be Old Trafford.

Andrey Arshavin is also said to be unhappy but the growing mood of disaffection with his efforts among the Emirates gallery last season suggests he would not be missed.

Losing Nasri and Fabregas would be a major blow to Arsenal's prospects - photo: Getty
Arsenal's collapse at the conclusion of last season when a pursuit of four trophies was quickly transformed a sixth campaign without success led to renewed calls for a rebuilding programme, something the stubborn Wenger finally seemed to embrace.

The problem confronting Wenger is that he is not controlling the process, it is being taken out of his hands by disaffected players.

His great skill in the past, when success came regularly, was that he was - in football terms - the consummate economist and alchemist. He was masterful at selling players at the best time and for the best price, while renewing his squad with younger replacements. For years you could barely see the join.

He now faces the most crucial weeks of his Arsenal career. Wenger must recapture that skill quickly but if he gets it wrong then he knows he risks further demonstrations of the unrest that started to surface at The Emirates towards the end of last season.

But is the situation really as chaotic as it seems? Wenger will tell you it is not.

He may even turn what looks like an exodus into an opportunity. Fabregas looked more and more like a player with his mind on Catalonia as last season progressed while the loss of Clichy, who has been in decline for two seasons, hardly represents a devastating blow.

Nasri's apparent dissatisfaction potentially represents the most damaging blow and not just because he could end up at one of Arsenal's Premier League rivals. It was a setback no-one at Arsenal appears to have seen coming until it was too late, although Wenger has not given up hope of persuading him to stay.

If Fabregas and Nasri go - Clichy is neither here nor there in my opinion despite being a fine player earlier in his Arsenal career - and Wenger's replacements are not successful right away, how long before Robin van Persie casts his eyes elsewhere or Jack Wilshere attracts serious interest for other clubs?

And how can Arsenal hope to attract the sort of players to challenge for titles at home and in Europe if their best players are effectively seen to be forming an orderly queue at the exit?

Wenger will playing for high stakes in the weeks before the season starts. If he does not bring in the right players, Arsenal will fall even further off the pace with Manchester United, Chelsea and Manchester City in various stages of rejuvenation.

However, it is not a situation without hope. If Wenger can get more than £60m for these three players - and it surely unthinkable that the club's board will not hand him the funds he has brought in - then he has the opportunity to shape a new Arsenal built around Wilshere, Van Persie and Aaron Ramsey alongside the young talent he cherishes such as goalkeeper Wojchiech Szczesny.

After all, this is not the dismantling of a successful side, it is the changing face of a team that has won nothing for six years and has proved alarmingly inadequate when presented with the greatest challenges.

Wenger's self-belief has never been shaken but now he has been presented with his greatest test. If he fails then Arsenal will fail. It is as stark as that in Arsenal's current condition.

Wenger is under the severest pressure of his Arsenal reign - photo: Getty
Despite what many Arsenal supporters believe, many of us would love to see this wonderful manager regain the sure touch of his early years and end his barren sequence.

To do so, he will also need to unearth players of steel to go alongside the silk provided by Wilshere and Ramsey. Gary Cahill of Bolton and Chris Samba of Blackburn may not appear to be identikit Wenger players but if last season finally got one message across, it was that Arsenal needed substance to go with style.

Former defender Nigel Winterburn said: "It has got to the stage where you look at the amount of money Man City have got, United have already gone out and bought players and Chelsea will spend.

"I don't think Arsenal can compete with those teams financially, but people will want to see that the squad is being strengthened because they have come up really short in terms of spending over the last two years.

"They need to get that winning mentality and that could mean signing two or three English players to get that English spirit alongside the style of football they play.

"If Arsenal don't do that, they are not going to win the league because all the other top teams will get stronger and we are not powerful enough over 38 games to compete - although they are not far away."

Everton's Phil Jagielka would be perfect for Arsenal, a defender who operates within a no-frills framework and is a voice and leader on the pitch - but this is not a deal that will find any willing takers at Goodison Park after Wenger was turned away last summer.

Lille's Gervinho is more in the Wenger mould while the Argentine Ricardo Alvarez is an exciting talent - but Wenger will need more bite in midfield to help Wilshere.

Perhaps England coach Fabio Capello has dropped him a hint by placing West Ham United's Scott Parker alongside Wilshere in the England side with some success. Age makes him a departure from Wenger's usual template and it would be a short-term fix, but long-term planning has brought nothing in the way of trophies since the FA Cup win against Manchester United in 2005 so it is surely worth consideration.

These are defining days for Wenger. How he responds to events that have appeared beyond his control will shape Arsenal's future - and his own.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2011/07/arsenal.html

[IBK]

I think this sums it up quite nicely. Not usually one for his blogs, but I think it's a sensible view.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2011/07/arsenal.html

Yeh - decent enough article.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I shun away from the word 'crisis' but am not sure if tht is because I am too stupid to admit........

what I do know is that the whole club needs to open its eyes wide, because if it doesn't it is about to hit, head on, one hell of a brick wall.

there are numerous things at foot within the club, the fact that we cant address the simpliest of needs, can do nothing but concern every Arsenal fan.
I can remember for the last couple of years now saying that we need to make a statement of our intent, bring in the kind of players that will do a job and at the sametime find an answer to teams that have obviously come up with an effective gameplan when playing us......that intent has not been shown or at least a weak attempt of it has......it means that we are no longer considered legitimate threats, the time SAF stopped goading AW was a massive sign of that. We have been caught up by a number of teams and overtaken by a couple of others amd have had no answer for it.

We moan about some clubs buying success but by the way things sound, our board has not done too bad!

This truely is the last summer, the last chance, in fact if we lose the kind of players we look like we are about to lose (Cesc/Nasri) then we can say that that last summer/chance has passed us by.

Cesc was always going to leave, Nasri I thought was looking for his position but obviously is looking for a little more - Arsenal will always go on and most will always continue to support the team but its frustrating to watch this distingration, I dont doubt that we can build up again without the likes of Cesc nd Nas and I pray that AW has a plan because it is his plan that we are stuck with.

I grew up with the Arsenal of the 80s and watched GG come along and make us great, followed by AW who took us even higher, my main worry is that although I believe we can become great again, the financial clout of some will make the climb this time around much more difficult than when I was a kid.