Match Reaction: Arsenal vs Man Utd - It Will Never Change While Wenger Haunts Us

[Niall_Quinn]

Just go you fucking cunt.

[Cripps]

:haha: :haha:

Jose out-classing Wenger again :haha:

Jose hadn't won any of his last 11 away league games against the other established top-six :haha:

Utd hardly scoring in big games but getting 3 against us :haha:

Lacuntzette getting a goal after missing 469 other chances :haha:

Defence :haha:

Not been average :haha:

Not an awful manager :haha:

At least MK Dons won :haha:

[Özim]

Another predictable loss, but then when is life at Arsenal not predictable.

2nd rate club, matchday fans will get over this in 3 games though once we win against a few pub teams and think we're something amazing again #shorttermmemory

Disaster of a season again but competition is so poor we're somehow still in touch with top 4. Not that that means much, 4th place is for losers.

[Cripps]

Another predictable loss, but then when is life at Arsenal not predictable.

2nd rate club, matchday fans will get over this in 3 games though once we win against a few pub teams and think we're something amazing again #shorttermmemory

FFS Zim moaning again :rolleyes:

We've just lost, can't you be happy for once :rolleyes:

[selassie]

Not entirely surprised, we see this every single season. Who cares anyway, it’s not like we will amount to anything this season.

[Özim]

Not entirely surprised, we see this every single season. Who cares anyway, it’s not like we will amount to anything this season.

Pretty much, nothing changes, somehow there's still a bunch of supporters who think it can.

[Niall_Quinn]

Got my umbrella out for the BT cumfest.

Wouldn't it be terrible if their studio burned down?

[Master Splinter]

Koscielny and Mustafi destroyed us at the back.

Finishing was seriously poor despite De Gea making some great saves.

Should have had at least two pelanties, but that happens in every game now.

Alexis pretty shit again.

Lacazette had his best game for Arsenal, despite the misses.

Crazy game in almost every way, but at least it was enjoyable for the fact we seem to have some consistent attacking threat again. Which is what football should be about at a basic level, once you throw out fanciful notions of winning the biggest trophies and having a competent managerial structure.

[Globalgunner]

Worst part is..Come Monday, this moron and his liebchens will get to training and do EXACTLY the same thing they have been doing forever. Movement, possession, tricks and flicks. No change

[Niall_Quinn]

Koscielny and Mustafi destroyed us at the back.

Finishing was seriously poor despite De Gea making some great saves.

Should have had at least two pelanties, but that happens in every game now.

Alexis pretty shit again.

Lacazette had his best game for Arsenal, despite the misses.

Crazy game in almost every way, but at least it was enjoyable for the fact we seem to have some consistent attacking threat again. Which is what football should be about at a basic level and you throw out fanciful notions of winning the biggest trophies and having a competent managerial structure.

True that, it was a good game.

The thing that really gets me though, Utd didn't even have to cheat to win. We won it for them. And Kos and Mustafi are going to be paid fucking £100K for it! We can say mistakes can happen. But this is 10 years now. And not a fucking sign that anything will ever change.

We're such a pathetic club now the real fans have to pray Gazidis is competent and wants what's best for Arsenal. That's how desperate we are now. That's our last hope of getting the fucking incompetent moron we have as manager out of this place. That or death.

I pray for both.

[rodders]

Suppose Wenger will say we were unlucky, rotten ref et al. However in reality the result shows how out of touch tactically he really is.

[Niall_Quinn]

BTW - Ozil, who happens to be a world class player, despite the lame sheepish follow the leader pathetic fans who hang on every word coming out of the Daily Mail, will be playing for that Utd team come the summer, latest. And look at how much they desperately need him. He won't stay here because, why?

One man. One name. Our nemesis. That cunt.

[Marc Overmars]

Aww, I really thought we turned the corner this time.

Yawn.

[Niall_Quinn]

Aww, I really thought we turned the corner this time.

Yawn.

So before our resident apologist chimes in.

YES. Utd have a bigger wage bill and more money than us.

But you actually WATCHED the match, right?

So now you can see how little that actually means when two ULTRA RICH clubs go head to head.

You need a plan. A competent manager. A well drilled squad. A good mentality.

We have Wenger.

Don't listen to those Wenger apologist bullshit artists when they come knocking with their eternally crappy excuses.

[AFC Leveller]

Didn't we lost to these cunts a few years ago in a very similar way when we peppered their goal and then conceded a deflected goal off Gibbs? Nothing learned I see. We also lost away to them when we capitulated in the space of 10 minutes when Rashford scored 2? Same shit keeps happening and we all know why.

[Letters]

Aww, I really thought we turned the corner this time.

Yawn.

I didn't think that, but I didn't think we'd lose this one.
I did try and find a stream but by the time I found one (which didn't actually work anyway) we were already 2 down so I didn't bother.
From what I did glean we weren't terrible but you can't go giving them a 2 goal lead.
Another season scrabbling around to try and get top 4, but I think we knew that really. I don't think anyone will catch City but if they do wobble it won't be us taking advantage.

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn't think that, but I didn't think we'd lose this one.
I did try and find a stream but by the time I found one (which didn't actually work anyway) we were already 2 down so I didn't bother.
From what I did glean we weren't terrible but you can't go giving them a 2 goal lead.
Another season scrabbling around to try and get top 4, but I think we knew that really. I don't think anyone will catch City but if they do wobble it won't be us taking advantage.

City are irrelevant. There are only a maximum number of points obtainable per season so no matter how good they are touted to be, that's the best they can do. We, on the other hand, have a long established track record of dropping points right at the very moment when it is crucial to win them. We are nailed on to do it. We've been doing it for 10 years.

Because of one man and one man only. 100% of the fault rests with him and every single excuse has long since been expose, especially the money one. He's spent countless millions and he still can't put a defence together. It's shameful. He's an utter disgrace. And embarrassment to the fans, the players, the club and the the history of the club - made worse by the fact he occupies a prime spot in that history.

Shameful!

[hobson's choice]

Heh this is not a blame Wenger result.

Mustafi and Kos are responsible for this loss.

And also Xhaka is simply the most useless player I've seen in an Arsenal shirt offers absolutely nothing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Heh this is not a blame Wenger result.

Mustafi and Kos are responsible for this loss.

And also Xhaka is simply the most useless player I've seen in an Arsenal shirt offers absolutely nothing.

Hogwash I’m afraid. These are his players, where is the coaching that makes them play so casually

[selassie]

Heh this is not a blame Wenger result.

Mustafi and Kos are responsible for this loss.

And also Xhaka is simply the most useless player I've seen in an Arsenal shirt offers absolutely nothing.

This team was built by Wenger, is coached by Wenger (if you want to call it that) and is prepared by Wenger (if you want to call it that). We have seen it all before, defensive mistakes, throwing games away in the first 10 minutes, just the usual shit.

Our start today was an absolute disgrace, this isn't what top teams do and is 100% on the manager.

It's mind numbing, we discuss the same things over and over again every single season, we all know what the problem is, it's like a broken record.

[selassie]

I didn't think that, but I didn't think we'd lose this one.
I did try and find a stream but by the time I found one (which didn't actually work anyway) we were already 2 down so I didn't bother.
From what I did glean we weren't terrible but you can't go giving them a 2 goal lead.
Another season scrabbling around to try and get top 4, but I think we knew that really. I don't think anyone will catch City but if they do wobble it won't be us taking advantage.

I don't think we are capable of finishing top 4 this season which will mean finishing above both the Spuds and the Scousers. I don't care either to be honest, we wouldn't take advantage of finishing in the top 4 anyway, we never do.

[Letters]

I don't think we are capable of finishing top 4 this season which will mean finishing above both the Spuds and the Scousers. I don't care either to be honest, we wouldn't take advantage of finishing in the top 4 anyway, we never do.

I honestly can't call it. The Manchester clubs are looking good for the top 2.
After that it's 2 from 4, or maybe 1 from 3 if you think Chelsea will finish 3rd.
I don't think there's much in it between us, Liverpool and Spurs.

I care in as much as it makes it easier to sign top players. We probably wouldn't have signed Ozil or Sanchez without CL football and if they leave in the summer, which seems likely, then we will need to replace them and having CL football will help us attract players.

[selassie]

I honestly can't call it. The Manchester clubs are looking good for the top 2.
After that it's 2 from 4, or maybe 1 from 3 if you think Chelsea will finish 3rd.
I don't think there's much in it between us, Liverpool and Spurs.

I care in as much as it makes it easier to sign top players. We probably wouldn't have signed Ozil or Sanchez without CL football and if they leave in the summer, which seems likely, then we will need to replace them and having CL football will help us attract players.

Them two leaving will be the final nail in the coffin irrespective of where we finish. We have lost the advantage of being an attractive destination through lack of investment, lack of ambition and standing still as a Football team, the last couple of years we have actually gone backwards in terms of our standing in Europe through our poor showing in the Champions League knockouts.

No ambitious player or one of the type of quality we require will be coming here after seeing Ozil and Sanchez walk out for free, heck we can't even tie down Ramsey to sign a new contract so what chance do we have of attracting genuine quality?

I have said for quite some time that we are the most vulnerable of the big clubs if we drop out of the top 4 due to our business model and lack of foreward planning.

Securing that scout from Dortmund and the new Director Of Football from Barca may go someway to giving us the kick up the backside we need in terms of ambition but as it stands we are not in a good place.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is Robbie from AFTV the new Letters?

"Sooooo disappointing, but we've really played well today. We've given it maximum effort. We've shown great desire."

So, Mrs Lincoln, apart from the two fatal crashes, how was my driving?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The two idiots at the back don't change the fact we generally played well.....albeit some incredible chances missed. At least we actually showed some fight which we haven't always done in these games. That's not to say being arsed should be a treat but I have far less issue digesting this one than others.

And WTF Mariner.....clear fucking pen at th end!

[Marc Overmars]

Agree with that. Nothing worth discussing really. Played well enough but it’s not the first time we’ve let ourselves down with poor finishing/defending and it certainly won’t be the last. United have been very good on the counter this season and they done a job on us today. Mourinho is superior coach to Wenger in pretty much every way and the fact his only loss to him came in a dead rubber says it all.

The Spurs win was an anomaly. Wins against the top 6 for us are very rare so we just need to forget about this and throw it on the growing pile of failures.

At least we beat Chelsea 0-0.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwa7OUffrg

This guy's a joke.

Unfortunate? People are going to make mistakes? We're not going for the title?

No mate. Reality check. Two games played against the top two and we've come out of it on the wrong end of 6-2. And we always come out soundly beaten when we absolutely need to win, regardless of how we play, regardless of how the opposition plays. When the chips are down, we fall down and that has been going on for a very long time now. At any other club you can have, "one of those days". But at Arsenal, "one of those days", means something very different. Something we have become very used to and something that can no longer be so easily dismissed. Time to stop covering up for the fraud who is responsible for all this.

[hobson's choice]

Ref did ignore 2 clear pens today

[Globalgunner]

Another big match. another shit show. Again this has Wengers DNA all over it so no need to CSI the heck out of the debacle. Wenger is bad at defence, always has been. Maybe more than every other aspect of the team because he is a former defender and in his conceited mind he thinks he knows this. Almost all the players he buys in CB positions get worse or stagnate under his tutelage. Maybe because he never gives actual instructions on how to defend or because he teaches them badly. Either way Sol Campbell remains the last great defender he has bought, some 16 years ago. Since then its been a litany of failures, has beens, could of beens or never was beens. He converts wingers to CB. plays CBs and FBs and vice versa.
Gabriel Paulista, who was great at Villareal before he brought him, was a tactical wreck playing for us, but seems to have found his feet again now in Valencia.

To succeed at Arsenal either as a player or as a team it has to be despite Wenger, not because of him as major fuck-ups are his speciality.

Let me not even start on his shot shy strikers. Giroud comes in when we need a goal and immediately starts doing his flicks to no-one while standing in the box. WTF!?

[Globalgunner]

Ref did ignore 2 clear pens today

Yes, but we had prob 20 shots on target....1 goal

[Özim]

iF this was a one off you could say we deserved better etc etc but it's a repeat of what we've been seeing for countless years, time and time again we get beaten in these big games, ironically coming into this one off a 5-0 win supposedly in good form our run is ended abruptly, in the end we're 2nd rate a good team doesn't make so many errors or big games, lack of focus, lack of quality, lack of tactics call it what you like but it's clear it's because something is wrong.

Even if we played well it's totally meaningless, 2-0 down after 11 minutes,, pull one back and Man U score again...then they go down to 10 and we can't get another goal......it's no coincidence, Mourinho is leagues ahead of Wenger, he came here and did a job and has done it many times before against better teams than us, he's a manager that gets results regardless of form, quality of opposition , he sets up his team, gets them playing as a unit and they get results and that's what counts in the end, not playing well and coming away with nothing. Man U had to win and he did.

So yes we might have played well, but who cares, it offers no comfort whatsoever as it's utterly meaningless. A club for losers.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I watched the first half, not good. Looked like we got overconfident in our abilities on the ball, particularly in back in the first 10 minutes and forgot to bother challenging.

Also, I managed to merge a thread without deleting it. :scarf:

[Letters]

Also, I managed to merge a thread without deleting it. :scarf:
You are the Arsene Wenger of mods, meeting minimum expectations of what a mod should be able to do ;)

[Özim]

Watched a bit of AFTV, there really is no hope is there, we have a group of fans that still think we're unlucky despite seeing this time and time and time again for over a decade, they're like mini Wengers who are never willing to accept he's finished and that if you're "unlucky" all the time it's not due to bad luck anymore.

We could be 15 points behind City by the end of the day, 15 points and it's still a month until Christmas, once again miles away from the title, that's what counts, it's not bad luck, it's bad play!

No excuses, it's a team game both attack and defence have to work to win games like these, the defence had a shocker, we weren't unlucky, we were poor at the back, you're never going to win a big game if you give away two goals like this, a good team is built from the back and at the back we're rubbish, we're never going to pull off those shock resuls and beat superior teams in matches that matter without a top defence.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Watched a bit of AFTV, there really is no hope is there, we have a group of fans that still think we're unlucky despite seeing this time and time and time again for over a decade, they're like mini Wengers who are never willing to accept he's finished and that if you're "unlucky" all the time it's not due to bad luck anymore.

We could be 15 points behind City by the end of the day, 15 points and it's still a month until Christmas, once again miles away from the title, that's what counts, it's not bad luck, it's bad play!

No excuses, it's a team game both attack and defence have to work to win games like these, the defence had a shocker, we weren't unlucky, we were poor at the back, you're never going to win a big game if you give away two goals like this, a good team is built from the back and at the back we're rubbish, we're never going to pull off those shock resuls and beat superior teams in matches that matter without a top defence.

So if people don’t agree with me they must be pliant morons

Defensively we were horrible but we had 33 shots on goal, 15 on target They weren’t containing us we were all over them

I think tactically you’re right we have fallen for it again, but take away the defence the team performance was good. You can blame Wenger and the two defenders for being 2-0 down inside 12 minutes and that fucked the rest of the game

But it was hardly an insipid performance from there on in, and these fans can only comment on what they’ve seen on the pitch

[McNamara That Ghost...]

You are the Arsene Wenger of mods, meeting minimum expectations of what a mod should be able to do ;)

I've been called a cunt on here too. :lol:

[Özim]

So if people don’t agree with me they must be pliant morons

Defensively we were horrible but we had 33 shots on goal, 15 on target They weren’t containing us we were all over them

I think tactically you’re right we have fallen for it again, but take away the defence the team performance was good. You can blame Wenger and the two defenders for being 2-0 down inside 12 minutes and that fucked the rest of the game

But it was hardly an insipid performance from there on in, and these fans can only comment on what they’ve seen on the pitch

No got no problem with people disagreeing, but after a decade of basically the same thing happening surely you have to wake up and smell the coffee, it's not a one off, we see the same thing season after season, our limitations are not really up for debate anymore surely now?

33 shots and only scored 1, over the years we've heard many times how their keeper was their best player, the thing is there was also some very poor finishing, something Man U didn't suffer from, yes we played well but at the end of the day we were horrible defensively and didn't put our chances away.

In the end performance is meaningless without the result and time and time again we fail to get the result when the other team has something to play for. As for blame, happens with too much regularity not to blame the manager, we gave away chances against Huddersfield but they couldn't take them but the better teams do, so it's nothing new, it's 100% Wengers fault we're rubbish in defence, the mistakes comes from lack of quality, tactics, focus, motivation and that's all down to Wenger, these aren't one offs.

I don't agree, it's not about what happens on the pitch anymore, it's about what is happening at this club, this season we're probably going to be 15 points away from Man City by the end of today, so out of the title race well before Christmas and a decent performance in a game we lost really doesn't change anything. We've turned a 1000 corners (we do every 3 matches these days), problem is there's never any light at the end of the tunnel it's just a constant loop.

[Bumble]

despite the result it was actually a really good game. de gea is a quality keeper so those saves are more expected I think so its not what has gone on before where we make an average keeper a superstar. in fact something like the sanchez or lacazette chance would have actually resulted in a goal against a more modest keeper.

[AFC Leveller]

Koscielny was so amateurish on the 3rd goal, what was he doing? he tried to barge Pogba off the ball and he ended up being rolled like a kid. All he needed to do there was stand his ground and move Pogba away form our goal.

That 3rd goal was the killer because we were peppering their goal.

[Özim]

If we'd won 3-1 and Man U had peppered our goal with 33 shots, would any of us give a damn? No we'd be happy we got the points and wouldn't care about the performance. Couldn't care less if we'd created 100 chances, once again we lost.

[Cripps]

I ask myself if we'd see the same individual mistakes month after month under a different manager.

The answer I get to is no.

Therefore it's down to wenger.

[Cripps]

Is Robbie from AFTV the new Letters?

"Sooooo disappointing, but we've really played well today. We've given it maximum effort. We've shown great desire."

So, Mrs Lincoln, apart from the two fatal crashes, how was my driving?

He gets access and freebies from the club.

[Özim]

Cech needs to be replaced now, not really good enough anymore, prone to errors and rarely makes those matchwinning saves, too easy to beat.

[Cripps]

Cech needs to be replaced now, not really good enough anymore, prone to errors and rarely makes those matchwinning saves, too easy to beat.

What was your view in 2011? Asking for a friend

[Power n Glory]

Watched a bit of AFTV, there really is no hope is there, we have a group of fans that still think we're unlucky despite seeing this time and time and time again for over a decade, they're like mini Wengers who are never willing to accept he's finished and that if you're "unlucky" all the time it's not due to bad luck anymore.

We could be 15 points behind City by the end of the day, 15 points and it's still a month until Christmas, once again miles away from the title, that's what counts, it's not bad luck, it's bad play!

No excuses, it's a team game both attack and defence have to work to win games like these, the defence had a shocker, we weren't unlucky, we were poor at the back, you're never going to win a big game if you give away two goals like this, a good team is built from the back and at the back we're rubbish, we're never going to pull off those shock resuls and beat superior teams in matches that matter without a top defence.

There is no hope if people still think this has anything to do with luck. Wenger's record against Mourinho speaks for itself.

The game was over after 11 minutes. I don't care about the amount of shots we had on their goal, possession or how we had them pinned back after. It's meaningless. Beaten by the same tactics we've seen on countless occasions. Press high, force mistakes and turnovers. It stems from our midfield problems in Xhaka and Ramsey and bottle job players like Kos should be getting way more stick. If that were Merts he'd be getting slated.

Wenger again not preparing his players mentally and setting things up tactically wrong by giving them no plan B when teams pressure us high up the pitch. Without fail, every team knows that we won't boot it long when under pressure and will always try to play it out of danger. I only watch a few minutes of MOTD towards the end and that's all I need to see. We're doing the same shit over and over again.

[Cripps]

There is no hope if people still think this has anything to do with luck. Wenger's record against Mourinho speaks for itself.

The game was over after 11 minutes. I don't care about the amount of shots we had on their goal, possession or how we had them pinned back after. It's meaningless. Beaten by the same tactics we've seen on countless occasions. Press high, force mistakes and turnovers. It stems from our midfield problems in Xhaka and Ramsey and bottle job players like Kos should be getting way more stick. If that were Merts he'd be getting slated.

Wenger again not preparing his players mentally and setting things up tactically wrong by giving them no plan B when teams pressure us high up the pitch. Without fail, every team knows that we won't boot it long when under pressure and will always try to play it out of danger. I only watch a few minutes of MOTD towards the end and that's all I need to see. We're doing the same shit over and over again.

Exactly. Luck:lol:

They forced mistakes and pounced on them. They pressed high, hustled our defenders and forced mistakes. How is that luck? :haha: it was tactical gameplan :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

And people wonder why when we do get it right (ie Spurs) the win is often not given the credence or respect it deserves. Everyone knows how flaky we are, it’s embarrassing.

[AFC Leveller]

Wenger isnt having it today.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/24173174_2031452473758748_3411325686867449777_o.jp g?oh=b4d3cd599619b9f47353435bce944a08&oe=5AC80AA9

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No got no problem with people disagreeing, but after a decade of basically the same thing happening surely you have to wake up and smell the coffee, it's not a one off, we see the same thing season after season, our limitations are not really up for debate anymore surely now?

33 shots and only scored 1, over the years we've heard many times how their keeper was their best player, the thing is there was also some very poor finishing, something Man U didn't suffer from, yes we played well but at the end of the day we were horrible defensively and didn't put our chances away.

In the end performance is meaningless without the result and time and time again we fail to get the result when the other team has something to play for. As for blame, happens with too much regularity not to blame the manager, we gave away chances against Huddersfield but they couldn't take them but the better teams do, so it's nothing new, it's 100% Wengers fault we're rubbish in defence, the mistakes comes from lack of quality, tactics, focus, motivation and that's all down to Wenger, these aren't one offs.

I don't agree, it's not about what happens on the pitch anymore, it's about what is happening at this club, this season we're probably going to be 15 points away from Man City by the end of today, so out of the title race well before Christmas and a decent performance in a game we lost really doesn't change anything. We've turned a 1000 corners (we do every 3 matches these days), problem is there's never any light at the end of the tunnel it's just a constant loop.

The point is the two defenders put us in the position of being two nil down. I think you can blame both those players and Wenger for that without any doubt. Why try and play out from the back when you’ve got a team that is pressing high and will punish sloppy errors.

The point on display is that you can’t fault the performance of most of the players after that point

Yes we’ve seen that kind of result a lot and it is totally tactically naive and I don’t believe anyone thought otherwise

Your contention however seems to be that United were under no pressure, which is just demonstrably false

No I don’t think it was luck, we took an injured defender off and stuck an attacking player on so we always left a risk of being caught on the break. But I don’t buy the idea that the finishing was consistently poor, my contention is simply that we lost ourselves the game in first ten minutes despite doing everything possible to remedy that afterwards

[Marc Overmars]

Also that’s a third of our games lost this season.

Really poor.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Also that’s a third of our games lost this season.

Really poor.

Really expected

[Cripps]

At least another 3 years with him :coffee: Let that sink in:lol:

12 home wins in a row :bow:

That's his new contract sorted :bow:

[Power n Glory]

The point is the two defenders put us in the position of being two nil down. I think you can blame both those players and Wenger for that without any doubt. Why try and play out from the back when you’ve got a team that is pressing high and will punish sloppy errors.

The point on display is that you can’t fault the performance of most of the players after that point

Yes we’ve seen that kind of result a lot and it is totally tactically naive and I don’t believe anyone thought otherwise

Your contention however seems to be that United were under no pressure, which is just demonstrably false

No I don’t think it was luck, we took an injured defender off and stuck an attacking player on so we always left a risk of being caught on the break. But I don’t buy the idea that the finishing was consistently poor, my contention is simply that we lost ourselves the game in first ten minutes despite doing everything possible to remedy that afterwards

I don't know what you're reading.


yes we played well but at the end of the day we were horrible defensively and didn't put our chances away.


so out of the title race well before Christmas and a decent performance in a game we lost really doesn't change anything.

There isn't much to argue about in either of Zim's post.

[Globalgunner]

We lost but put in a great performance..:ilt::doh::whistle:

The story of our Wenger existence. Put that along with narrowly defeating Barca and Bayern away after being tanked at home.

Tha sad part is that it's fans waxing lyrical about an abysmal loss and not even Wenger. There were absolutely no positives to take from that game. None whatsoever.

[selassie]

Cech needs to be replaced now, not really good enough anymore, prone to errors and rarely makes those matchwinning saves, too easy to beat.

Thats basically one of the differences between Wenger and the Elite coaches, Elite coaches are proactive Wenger is reactive. An Elite Manager identifies weaknesses in the team and resolves them ASAP, Wenger does nothing but amble on and make the required change often too late or in some cases just buys the wrong type of player. The Top 3 teams all have young elite keepers we have an ageing one who is in decline. None of this has anything to do with money either, Wenger has wasted millions on garbage over the past few seasons Lacazette aside.

[selassie]

Also that’s a third of our games lost this season.

Really poor.

It’s going to be another car crash season, I think we’ll end up losing around 10 or 11 games. What do people expect when half of the team want to be somewhere else, they don’t care.

I wouldn’t be surprised if yesterday’s game is the start of some sort of collapse, Southampton away next, happy days, it’s our bogey ground.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know what you're reading.





There isn't much to argue about in either of Zim's post.

Zim's contention last night was that United were under no pressure, quoting his post is just so i'm replying directly to him

Plus i think the AFTV responses were largely about how naive we were defensively, and unlucky was in context of how many saves De Gea made

[selassie]

Zim's contention last night was that United were under no pressure, quoting his post is just so i'm replying directly to him

Plus i think the AFTV responses were largely about how naive we were defensively, and unlucky was in context of how many saves De Gea made

We were definitely the better team but our finishing and defending let us down, they were clinical on the counter although a lot of that was to do with our poor defending and lack of awareness.

We’ve seen this all before many times so it’s not like yesterday was some kind of freak of nature result/outcome.

[Cripps]

So before our resident apologist chimes in.

YES. Utd have a bigger wage bill and more money than us.

But you actually WATCHED the match, right?

So now you can see how little that actually means when two ULTRA RICH clubs go head to head.

You need a plan. A competent manager. A well drilled squad. A good mentality.

We have Wenger.

Don't listen to those Wenger apologist bullshit artists when they come knocking with their eternally crappy excuses.

Careful the self proclaimed bullshit police will be back soon policing the forum for any 'extreme' anti Wenger views:lol:

[Cripps]

On a side note is de gea one of the best goalkeepers the premier league has ever had? Top 5 surely

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arsenal's Facebook account showing the expected tact and context.

http://i65.tinypic.com/bdpgea.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

On a side note is de gea one of the best goalkeepers the premier league has ever had? Top 5 surely

Hard to say. Our finishing was so woefully inept, we hit at least half those efforts right at him and certainly more than a couple of those "saves" were him standing there, oblivious, as we punted the ball off him. But there were more than a few good saves in there and some of the time it was him against us, Utd's defence being pretty poxy in truth.

Nowhere near as poxy as ours, of course.

[Cripps]

Hard to say. Our finishing was so woefully inept, we hit at least half those efforts right at him and certainly more than a couple of those "saves" were him standing there, oblivious, as we punted the ball off him. But there were more than a few good saves in there and some of the time it was him against us, Utd's defence being pretty poxy in truth.

Nowhere near as poxy as ours, of course.

It's been worse. They beat us 8-2 in 2011 :coffee:

[Marc Overmars]

Hard to say. Our finishing was so woefully inept, we hit at least half those efforts right at him and certainly more than a couple of those "saves" were him standing there, oblivious, as we punted the ball off him. But there were more than a few good saves in there and some of the time it was him against us, Utd's defence being pretty poxy in truth.

Nowhere near as poxy as ours, of course.

Certainly a mixture of poor finishing and good saves but there's no doubt De Gea is an exceptional keeper, he's been one of, if not the best in the game for a number of years now.

Hope we can find ourselves someone of his class soon. I think Cech is ok, still very commanding in the box but he's showing his age now, doesn't seem to be very agile anymore.

[Niall_Quinn]

Certainly a mixture of poor finishing and good saves but there's no doubt De Gea is an exceptional keeper, he's been one of, if not the best in the game for a number of years now.

Hope we can find ourselves someone of his class soon. I think Cech is ok, still very commanding in the box but he's showing his age now, doesn't seem to be very agile anymore.

Cech's a great pro - all we need to do now is put a defence in front of him. 10 years without a defence. It's a scandal that has become a tradition that has become business as usual. Wenger has lulled at least half the players and half the fans, and certainly the majority of the executive, into believing second best will do. Cech cut his teeth on being a winner. Now he finds himself at a club where winning is just not on the priority list. Yet you don't see him moaning or complaining or causing a fuss, he gets on and does the best he can do. Eventually age will catch up with him, but for now he's a good solid pro, he has winning in his locker, Wenger can't take away his winner's medals and I'll bet he's a great influence in the dressing room and I'm pretty damn sure we'd be worse off if we lost one of the characters who knows what winning is about.

I'd also bet De Gea would look half the keeper if he came and played for us. We all know why.

[Cripps]

Cech's a great pro - all we need to do now is put a defence in front of him. 10 years without a defence. It's a scandal that has become a tradition that has become business as usual. Wenger has lulled at least half the players and half the fans, and certainly the majority of the executive, into believing second best will do. Cech cut his teeth on being a winner. Now he finds himself at a club where winning is just not on the priority list. Yet you don't see him moaning or complaining or causing a fuss, he gets on and does the best he can do. Eventually age will catch up with him, but for now he's a good solid pro, he has winning in his locker, Wenger can't take away his winner's medals and I'll bet he's a great influence in the dressing room and I'm pretty damn sure we'd be worse off if we lost one of the characters who knows what winning is about.

I'd also bet De Gea would look half the keeper if he came and played for us. We all know why.

Gunnersaurus' pre match high 5s?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Koscielny was so amateurish on the 3rd goal, what was he doing? he tried to barge Pogba off the ball and he ended up being rolled like a kid. All he needed to do there was stand his ground and move Pogba away form our goal.

That 3rd goal was the killer because we were peppering their goal.
It reminded me of his defending when he first joined the club.... just getting rolled and muscled off the ball at key moments by any old oaf. Some suggestions from places that he is still habouring an injury though....?

I've thought De Gea is better than Neuer for a few years now.....and not just because he is a brilliant shot stopper. Quite possibly the best there is.

[Niall_Quinn]

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/04/15/46FA824500000578-5144253-image-a-21_1512402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

[Globalgunner]

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/04/15/46FA824500000578-5144253-image-a-21_1512402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

The epitome of bad coaching, but Wenger never sees, bad luck on the result because clearly we were the better team he says. Yeah right. The better team with worse defenders, worse midfield and inaccurate strikers.

Koscielny gets bossed off the ball by Pogba. Just as he used to do when he joined over half a decade ago. Just as Senderos used to do against Drogba all those years ago. This from a man who used to hobble the invincibles by adding Pascal Cygan into their mix. A man who regularly plays CB as FB and vice versa. Bad coaching or more likely non existent coaching. All hallmarks of delusion and gross incompetence.

[Power n Glory]

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/04/15/46FA824500000578-5144253-image-a-21_1512402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

Wright is right. (sorry).

I'm hearing people quote the stats but isn't this the sort of thing we slate Wenger for? Like a couple of weeks back when he was talking about that 'likely goals' stat or whatever it was.

[Power n Glory]

The epitome of bad coaching, but Wenger never sees, bad luck on the result because clearly we were the better team he says. Yeah right. The better team with worse defenders, worse midfield and inaccurate strikers.

Koscielny gets bossed off the ball by Pogba. Just as he used to do when he joined over half a decade ago. Just as Senderos used to do against Drogba all those years ago. This from a man who used to hobble the invincibles by adding Pascal Cygan into their mix. A man who regularly plays CB as FB and vice versa. Bad coaching or more likely non existent coaching. All hallmarks of delusion and gross incompetence.

Kos improved as a defender when Merts arrived and his form has dropped off with the mistakes happening more often without him. It was never a perfect partnership but he reminds of what happened to Kola once we lost Sol Campbell.

[Özim]

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/04/15/46FA824500000578-5144253-image-a-21_1512402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

:lol: laughable defending, how any manager of any top club in the world can keep his job when stuff like this happens is beyond me, it's basics in drilling your defence and how to defend, 5 players chasing one player is obviously going to leave lots of players free, one good pass and you're in real trouble.

The man just doesn't have a clue about football, 20000 substitutions or not.

[Cripps]

It's not down to Wenger. It's down to luck.






























:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: laughable defending, how any manager of any top club in the world can keep his job when stuff like this happens is beyond me, it's basics in drilling your defence and how to defend, 5 players chasing one player is obviously going to leave lots of players free, one good pass and you're in real trouble.

The man just doesn't have a clue about football, 20000 substitutions or not.

The four headless chickens bum rushing Pogba, who is about to make the world's easiest pass, that's bad enough. But the guy in the gloves strolling back, seemingly oblivious, that's ridiculous. Who is that?

[Master Splinter]

But the guy in the gloves strolling back, seemingly oblivious, that's ridiculous. Who is that?

Ozil.

Not really, it's Alexis.

[Özim]

Wenger must have studied FIFA because that's exactly what happens to the defence in that game as well, everyone rushes to the ball and leave huge gaping holes in the defence.

The only way to stop a goal is then to make a mifield run back and act as some sort of sweeper, Xhaka is too rubbish for that though.

[Cripps]

We don't work as a team. So many times during the game I'm like where the hell is our midfield.

The team needs to move as one. Attack as one. Defend as one. Too often there's gaping holes and players stretched into wide positions.

Once in a blue moon we get it right like at spurs but then we go back to normality. It needs to be worked and instilled into their mindset week in week out. Not once in a blue moon.

[selassie]

:lol: laughable defending, how any manager of any top club in the world can keep his job when stuff like this happens is beyond me, it's basics in drilling your defence and how to defend, 5 players chasing one player is obviously going to leave lots of players free, one good pass and you're in real trouble.

The man just doesn't have a clue about football, 20000 substitutions or not.

:haha: Classic Arsenal

[Cripps]

Can you imagine that defending under Graham? He'd have put a rocket up their arse:lol:

George:bow:

Our 2nd best manager ever

After Herbert Chapman:bow:

[Cripps]

Zingaard:haha:

Im still having nightmares.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Can you imagine that defending under Graham? He'd have put a rocket up their arse:lol:

George:bow:

Our 2nd best manager ever

After Herbert Chapman:bow:

Would have won back to back titles too if I hadn’t died of pneumonia

[Niall_Quinn]

Would have won back to back titles too if I hadn’t died of pneumonia

You got better though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You got better though.

No I didn’t