Match Reaction Arsenal 1-2 Ostersunds

[Niall_Quinn]

GET OUT WENGER - YOU USELESS CUNT!

[Globalgunner]

Let the records show that we lost to a team of part timers whose total monthly wages are less than what we pay Ozil per week and whose yearly club budget is likely less than what we pay the genius that is Wenger

[Ralpheroo72]

Absolutely pathetic, we have sunk so far, its hard to see any way back up. Massive clear out required, starting with our buffoon of a manager.

[rodders]

Achieved a new low tonight

[HCZ]

Since 2012 we have lost 9 of our last 25 European home matches

That’s more than we’ve lost away from home

[HCZ]

We’ve now also lost the home leg fixture of our last six knockout ties in European competition

[Xhaka Can’t]

IÂ’m beginning to suspect we may be shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

Let the records show that we lost to a team of part timers whose total monthly wages are less than what we pay Ozil per week and whose yearly club budget is likely less than what we pay the genius that is Wenger

It's not the winning that counts, it's the taking part.

In a way, we're all winners.

[Niall_Quinn]

IÂ’m beginning to suspect we may be shit.

It's beginning to look a lot like Shitmas.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh I wish it could be Shitmas, every day!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Shit is falling all around me.

[Marc Overmars]

Shite team with no redeeming features.

No chance were lifting the crappy cup on Sunday.

[dostoy]

If Arsenal had have gone out of the Europa league tonight then that would have been a big nail in Wenger's coffin.

They still lost at home to a team of Swedish minnows who are basically useless and way way way below the top European teams.

The only thing that I care about is Wenger leaving as that is the ONLY way things are going to improve and anything that has to occur to make that happen this summer I am ok with apart from relegation, I think Arsenal are safe on that one, this season anyway.

The last thing that should happen is Wenger winning a trophy, even a very tiny one, so I want a heavy defeat on Sunday.

If anyone thinks I am not an Arsenal fan, they are not seeing the big picture.

The man has got to go before there is going to be any improvement whatsoever otherwise Arsenal will continue to go downhill.

[Power n Glory]

This loss doesn't change a thing. It's not enough to get him fired. I'm not even sure an embarrassing exit and beating on Sunday could get him fired.

Someone has to take one for the team. We need a brave fan to run up on Wenger and punch him right in the face! That might be enough for him to get the message.

[Niall_Quinn]

This loss doesn't change a thing. It's not enough to get him fired. I'm not even sure an embarrassing exit and beating on Sunday could get him fired.

Someone has to take one for the team. We need a brave fan to run up on Wenger and punch him right in the face! That might be enough for him to get the message.

Make a martyr of him? Are you kidding me? He'd get a fucking 10 year sympathy contract if that happened. No. He's doing more than enough all by himself to get fired. He'd have been fired 10 times at any normal club. And even the Kroenke's will have to come around eventually because this guy Wenger is taking the club lower and lower and it's plain he doesn't have the first clue how to do anything except make it worse.

People were arguing over that 40 mill contract. It's a very ordinary deal that reflects our diminished status. As money continues to pour into this game and the hype ramps up, next season and the season after we'll be seeing the real players bag 60, 80, 100mill contracts that dwarf our deal. That's because those teams will be appearing in all the places that sponsors want to be, and we'll be trading off the diminishing remains of our past glories. That tank is going to be empty real soon. So our new contract is no better than the old contracts of the big boys. It's not a surprise. And the same decline will play out across the board. Eventually Kroenke will have to step in. If he's a business man and not some sort of Wenger blackmail victim then he'll have to step in, to prevent the growth curve swinging around into a decline. Is he going to sacrifice his own wealth and business stability to accommodate Wenger? No way. Wenger's a dead duck walking and it's just a matter of how the club wants to arrange his departure. He'll be afforded the dignity he barely deserves, a generous reward in return for his horrible selfishness that he displayed when he signed that new contract even though he must know, in honest moments, he's shot.

He's gone. I hope at the end of this season. Surely, surely at the end of the next one. Even if he won the Europa it'd be a desperate fluke, it wouldn't be the result of planning and part of a progression back towards the top. It'd be a desperate fluke. That's where Kroenke will need a steer from Ivan and those who want Wenger out. Kroenke mustn't be hoodwinked just because Wenger promises him glory (cash) from the CL appearances that will result from a Europa win - because we aren't getting back in the CL on the merit of league position. But that could happen if somebody in the club can't explain the larger football implications to him.

It would be a lot better for Arsenal Football Club if we did not win the Europa. A new manager is much more valuable to the club than a shiny cup that has Wenger attached to it.

[Marc Overmars]

I honestly feel this is his last contract regardless of what happens in the Europa and also this Sunday. We’re a million miles from being a competitive team at the top level and deep down I think he knows he’s fucked it. He’s been allowed to carry on by those above him so we have to hope they pull the plug soon. I have a little feeling that the penny may have dropped because of the sheer weight of apathy running through the club right now.

Ideally he needs to go at the end of this season. We just can’t have the will he/won’t he stay situation again after the debacle last year. Putting us through that again would just be plain taking the piss out of every single fan.

[Niall_Quinn]

I honestly feel this is his last contract regardless of what happens in the Europa and also this Sunday. We’re a million miles from being a competitive team at the top level and deep down I think he knows he’s fucked it. He’s been allowed to carry on by those above him so we have to hope they pull the plug soon. I have a little feeling that the penny may have dropped because of the sheer weight of apathy running through the club right now.

Ideally he needs to go at the end of this season. We just can’t have the will he/won’t he stay situation again after the debacle last year. Putting us through that again would just be plain taking the piss out of every single fan.

So we win the Europa, meaning we qualify for the CL, and to avoid the carefully detail uncertainty from the last contract - Wenger gets a new contract.

Or, we win the Europa and Wenger steps down (because he won't be sacked barring a catastrophic run of results).

Which is more likely? If we win the cup?

And what if we win both cups?

There's a real danger that Wenger could yet get a new contract. Under most circumstances it would be fair for a manager to get a renewal based on two cup wins. But not when that manager has turned us from a top tier club into an also-ran. Should he be rewarded for being a second rate manager winning second rate trophies at what is supposed to be a top tier club? I don't think so. I don't think any manager should be rewarded for dropping the standards of the club across the board as Wenger has done.

But plenty of fans will go along with the idea you can't get rid of a "double" winning manager. Even though the gypos, chavs and Utd have no such reservations.

It'll be great fun if we win on Sunday. For a day. And the same if we somehow luck into a Europa win. These are days out but they are also potentially a prelude to at least two more seasons of underachievement and backsliding. And possibly long term harm that will take years or even decades to recover from. Look at Liverpool. Even Utd. They both spent years in the wilderness.

[selassie]

I watched the first 35 minutes then switched it off. The club disgusts me TBH, it hurts I feel this way but that is how I feel and I’ve been a Gooner for 40 years.

The sad thing is when we were 2 nil down last night I actually didn’t care, I wasn’t actually bothered because right now I have nothing but contempt for the way the club is being run and the way Wenger has wrecked this team.

Sad times.

[Power n Glory]

Make a martyr of him? Are you kidding me? He'd get a fucking 10 year sympathy contract if that happened. No. He's doing more than enough all by himself to get fired. He'd have been fired 10 times at any normal club. And even the Kroenke's will have to come around eventually because this guy Wenger is taking the club lower and lower and it's plain he doesn't have the first clue how to do anything except make it worse.

People were arguing over that 40 mill contract. It's a very ordinary deal that reflects our diminished status. As money continues to pour into this game and the hype ramps up, next season and the season after we'll be seeing the real players bag 60, 80, 100mill contracts that dwarf our deal. That's because those teams will be appearing in all the places that sponsors want to be, and we'll be trading off the diminishing remains of our past glories. That tank is going to be empty real soon. So our new contract is no better than the old contracts of the big boys. It's not a surprise. And the same decline will play out across the board. Eventually Kroenke will have to step in. If he's a business man and not some sort of Wenger blackmail victim then he'll have to step in, to prevent the growth curve swinging around into a decline. Is he going to sacrifice his own wealth and business stability to accommodate Wenger? No way. Wenger's a dead duck walking and it's just a matter of how the club wants to arrange his departure. He'll be afforded the dignity he barely deserves, a generous reward in return for his horrible selfishness that he displayed when he signed that new contract even though he must know, in honest moments, he's shot.

He's gone. I hope at the end of this season. Surely, surely at the end of the next one. Even if he won the Europa it'd be a desperate fluke, it wouldn't be the result of planning and part of a progression back towards the top. It'd be a desperate fluke. That's where Kroenke will need a steer from Ivan and those who want Wenger out. Kroenke mustn't be hoodwinked just because Wenger promises him glory (cash) from the CL appearances that will result from a Europa win - because we aren't getting back in the CL on the merit of league position. But that could happen if somebody in the club can't explain the larger football implications to him.

It would be a lot better for Arsenal Football Club if we did not win the Europa. A new manager is much more valuable to the club than a shiny cup that has Wenger attached to it.

I have serious doubts about Kroenke pulling the plug on Wenger. It seems as though Wenger has to decide he's had enough and it's down to the fans to make it known he's not wanted here. I can't stand to hear more bullshit from him, defiant as ever, talking about honoring contracts. Just fuck off already.

As for the sponsorship deals, that's partly why I think Stan won't budge. Real Madrid are the only team with a shirt sponsorship deal worth £62m. Utd earn £53m from their Chevy deal. Barca are on £47m. I can't see a situation where our others rivals will surpass those shirt sponsorship deals in a year or so. It doesn't look like we're being left behind in that area and I can't see Stan looking at those numbers and thinking we've gotten bum deal.

[HCZ]

Shirt sponsorship is only one part of the club’s corporate revenue, the other one is the kit deal and various other endorsements and sponsorships.

It’s quite possible there is no depth to which we can sink to which the club would decide to terminate his contract early

But it’s equally possible the decision has been made that there will be no new contract

New staff brought in by Gazidis and Josh Kroenke coming in to take a more direct look at how things are going....none of this suggests that Kroenke is desperate to maintain the status quo.

[Power n Glory]

Shirt sponsorship is only one part of the club’s corporate revenue, the other one is the kit deal and various other endorsements and sponsorships.

It’s quite possible there is no depth to which we can sink to which the club would decide to terminate his contract early

But it’s equally possible the decision has been made that there will be no new contract

New staff brought in by Gazidis and Josh Kroenke coming in to take a more direct look at how things are going....none of this suggests that Kroenke is desperate to maintain the status quo.

The Josh Kroenke visit is something to keep an eye on. I heard he wanted Henry to be a coach here and with Wenger really screwing that one up, maybe Josh isn't happy with Wenger. But it all comes back to Stan having the final word. We're supposed to be negotiating a new kit deal with Adidas. We'll see if we get short changed but I doubt it.

[Marc Overmars]

I think the apathy consistently on display now is probably more of a wake up call than a few boos and queer little Wenger out signs.

It's easy to brush off any boo boys as trouble makers but what about fans who just don't care enough anymore and waves of empty seats in the stadium? This club is having more of it's soul sucked out of it every season he remains manager.

[HCZ]

We had problems negotiating with Adidas four years ago because they wouldn’t give us what we wanted. Arguably now are they going to be more or less inclined to give us what we want?

I think it’s possible Kroenkes regard for Wenger is overstated and he similarly had no issue sacking the last coach of the Rams.

He likes from what I can gather to avoid upheaval, but it’s just possible that with Gazidis putting his people in place that Kroenke will be convinced that by 2019 not offering Wenger a new contract will be relatively seamless

[Power n Glory]

I think the apathy consistently on display now is probably more of a wake up call than a few boos and queer little Wenger out signs.

It's easy to brush off any boo boys as trouble makers but what about fans who just don't care enough anymore and waves of empty seats in the stadium? This club is having more of it's soul sucked out of it every season he remains manager.

With Josh Kroenke in town, more empty seats, banners and boos will give him a good idea of how people feel about the club. There is no room for ambiguity. I'm sure Wenger would try to blame the empty seats on the cold weather, fixture time and day along with TFL fucking up train times. Those that go to games can play their part.

[Power n Glory]

We had problems negotiating with Adidas four years ago because they wouldn’t give us what we wanted. Arguably now are they going to be more or less inclined to give us what we want?

I think it’s possible Kroenkes regard for Wenger is overstated and he similarly had no issue sacking the last coach of the Rams.

He likes from what I can gather to avoid upheaval, but it’s just possible that with Gazidis putting his people in place that Kroenke will be convinced that by 2019 not offering Wenger a new contract will be relatively seamless

Four years ago we weren't signing star players so that could have been a major stumbling block for what we wanted and what Adidas were willing to give. Who knows. I'm just reporting on what I've seen in the press.

I've also heard that the club are still open to extending Wenger's contract. I hope it's bullshit but who knows.

[HCZ]

Yes the same media reports that his future will be resolved one way or another this summer

On our current trajectory it’s hard to imagine they will outright award him a contract extension

I think it’s partly click bait and partly journalists being told “no options are off the table”.

We had signed Ozil the last time we negotiated with Adidas

Personally I don’t think anything will be decided one way or the other in the summer and we will probably go into the 2018-2019 season with the same uncertainty as two years beforehand

[Power n Glory]

Yes the same media reports that his future will be resolved one way or another this summer

On our current trajectory it’s hard to imagine they will outright award him a contract extension

I think it’s partly click bait and partly journalists being told “no options are off the table”.

We had signed Ozil the last time we negotiated with Adidas

Personally I don’t think anything will be decided one way or the other in the summer and we will probably go into the 2018-2019 season with the same uncertainty as two years beforehand

We hadn't signed Ozil when we were negotiating with Adidas. The Puma deal was announced in May 2013. We signed Ozil in September 2013 on deadline day.

The Puma deal was announced in the last season we wore Nike. Any negotiations with Puma would have been before Ozil and probably when we had sold RVP to Utd.

[HCZ]

We hadn't signed Ozil when we were negotiating with Adidas. The Puma deal was announced in May 2013. We signed Ozil in September 2013 on deadline day.

The Puma deal was announced in the last season we wore Nike. Any negotiations with Puma would have been before Ozil and probably when we had sold RVP to Utd.

And when we were still a champions league club and yes I know United weren’t when they got their Adidas deal but they are United.

Hmm I could swear the Puma deal was announced half way through the 13/14 season. But with grey strands to my hair comes faulty memory (found an article confirming the deal from May 2013)

I would only say that you’ve cited media that states Wenger getting a new deal is possible, well the media also reported that worrying about qualifying for the champions league might be a potential sticking point in any kit sponsorship negotiations with Addidas.

So in reality, no one really knows what is happening

The only one who has come out insisting about honouring his contract is Wenger himself.

[Power n Glory]

And when we were still a champions league club and yes I know United weren’t when they got their Adidas deal but they are United.

Hmm I could swear the Puma deal was announced half way through the 13/14 season. But with grey strands to my hair comes faulty memory (found an article confirming the deal from May 2013)

I would only say that you’ve cited media that states Wenger getting a new deal is possible, well the media also reported that worrying about qualifying for the champions league might be a potential sticking point in any kit sponsorship negotiations with Addidas.

So in reality, no one really knows what is happening

The only one who has come out insisting about honouring his contract is Wenger himself.

Yes, they're United and Adidas know they'll continue to buy star players which is what will drive shirt sales. Champions League is good for visibility but with our shitty CL performance record, I doubt it equates to an increase in shirt sales. Signing Aubmeyang, Mkhitryan and still having Ozil will probably have more of an effect on sales in certain regions.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I was trying to make this point with Dumbledore the other day. Even if we win the Caffiene cup I don't think that is automatically going to equate to a new contract for Wenger. There is a sufficient amount of time between this weekend and the end of the season that Wenger can virtually render the goodwill earned from any unlikely cup win as virtually void with poor results.

Having an FA cup final at the end of the season is in that respect very well timed as winning it sits at the forefront of the memory and it has the gravitas and history that the Cara doesn't. I think people are also tending to forget and underestimate how much strong fan criticism from Arsenal fans has begun to affect Wenger. Much as we think he is teflon to it, he wants to be wanted by Arsenal fans and the club. The Public Wenger out shows has simmered for a year or so because we won the FA cup last season but if he doesn't win anything and stays out the top 4 and even if he does win the Cara cup, that fan disdain is going to bubble back up to the surface, the banners will return and Wenger will be increasingly vexed by the public shows of disapproval. This will be at its crescendo by the season end and I don't think that is going to convince even Kroenke that the contract shouldn't just meet its natural respectable end and be left to play out without any further extension. All parties would keep whatever little respect they have salvaged then.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that in avoiding the same merry go around of will Wenger sign on or won't he we saw last season.....he could have been offered a 3/4/5 year contract in the summer instead of the 2 year but he wasn't. I think the 2 year extension was partly a means of safeguarding / insurance however timid a gesture it may seem to us fans who desperately want him out.

I don't expect him to walk or be sacked this summer but I am not expecting an extension unless something significant happens...ie he wins the Europa and or finishes top 4....and then he has to do something significant next season too.

[HCZ]

Yes, they're United and Adidas know they'll continue to buy star players which is what will drive shirt sales. Champions League is good for visibility but with our shitty CL performance record, I doubt it equates to an increase in shirt sales. Signing Aubmeyang, Mkhitryan and still having Ozil will probably have more of an effect on sales in certain regions.

Will the biggest players sign for us, don’t get me wrong I loved that Aubemeyang signed for us but would we really have got him if there was real competition for him. Keeping Wenger shows a lack of ambition to prospective signings

Plus I think it does matter, a club’s international recognition hinges on it playing in the biggest competitions. And equally shirt sales increase for a player instrumental in their club’s success.

The club has always been marketable based on its sporting potential as a result of its healthy financial status. It doesn’t look good for sponsors to be propping up a stale brand.

Anyway to be honest. I think this is probably coming as a result of a negative mind set on your part. It’s hard not to be, but it’s very hard to see results like last night and results to come and think they won’t cast doubt into corporate sponsors and the man who calls the shots.

[HCZ]

I was trying to make this point with Dumbledore the other day. Even if we win the Caffiene cup I don't think that is automatically going to equate to a new contract for Wenger. There is a sufficient amount of time between this weekend and the end of the season that Wenger can virtually render the goodwill earned from any unlikely cup win as virtually void with poor results.

Having an FA cup final at the end of the season is in that respect very well timed as winning it sits at the forefront of the memory and it has the gravitas and history that the Cara doesn't. I think people are also tending to forget and underestimate how much strong fan criticism from Arsenal fans has begun to affect Wenger. Much as we think he is teflon to it, he wants to be wanted by Arsenal fans and the club. The Public Wenger out shows has simmered for a year or so because we won the FA cup last season but if he doesn't win anything and stays out the top 4 and even if he does win the Cara cup, that fan disdain is going to bubble back up to the surface, the banners will return and Wenger will be increasingly vexed by the public shows of disapproval. This will be at its crescendo by the season end and I don't think that is going to convince even Kroenke that the contract shouldn't just meet its natural respectable end and be left to play out without any further extension. All parties would keep whatever little respect they have salvaged then.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that in avoiding the same merry go around of will Wenger sign on or won't he we saw last season.....he could have been offered a 3/4/5 year contract in the summer instead of the 2 year but he wasn't. I think the 2 year extension was partly a means of safeguarding / insurance however timid a gesture it may seem to us fans who desperately want him out.

I don't expect him to walk or be sacked this summer but I am not expecting an extension unless something significant happens...ie he wins the Europa and or finishes top 4....and then he has to do something significant next season too.

That’s what I think I think the likelihood of him going in the summer is on a par with the likelihood of him getting a new contract...slim.

Even the last two contract awards have gone down to the wire. That after this season he’d get an extension a year ahead of time seems implausible

[HCZ]

Drawn AC Milan in the Europa League

[Power n Glory]

]Will the biggest players sign for us, don’t get me wrong I loved that Aubemeyang signed for us but would we really have got him if there was real competition for him[/B]. Keeping Wenger shows a lack of ambition to prospective signings

Plus I think it does matter, a club’s international recognition hinges on it playing in the biggest competitions. And equally shirt sales increase for a player instrumental in their club’s success.

The club has always been marketable based on its sporting potential as a result of its healthy financial status. It doesn’t look good for sponsors to be propping up a stale brand.

Anyway to be honest. I think this is probably coming as a result of a negative mind set on your part. It’s hard not to be, but it’s very hard to see results like last night and results to come and think they won’t cast doubt into corporate sponsors and the man who calls the shots.

That's a entirely different argument. We have him now.

Plus you kill your own argument with the next highlighted line. Playing in the biggest competitions is a factor but it doesn't matter if you haven't got star players. Hence why the first Adidas deal fell through. We were playing in the Champions League for years but still couldn't get a good deal.

[HCZ]

That's a entirely different argument. We have him now.

Plus you kill your own argument with the next highlighted line. Playing in the biggest competitions is a factor but it doesn't matter if you haven't got star players. Hence why the first Adidas deal fell through. We were playing in the Champions League for years but still couldn't get a good deal.

In fairness?

In fairness you say enough to me for speculating for the reasons why things happen. all we know about the Addidas deal is that they weren’t prepared to pay what we were asking for.

Do we really have far more star quality than we had then for them to offer us what we want now despite no champions league forthcoming.


Here is what is fact

The deal with Puma was as I understand a record deal until United smashed it to fuck

Who knows why Addidas didn’t see us as a good investment at the time, but I’m not convinced having Aubemeyang and Ozil will necessarily be the tipping point for them if we are showing no likelihood of competing for top honours

But who knows.

In terms of what has happened as opposed to what might or might not happen there is evidence of Wenger being slowly diminished. The evidence (his last two contracts) points to the fact that a contract extension is unlikely to be given before 2019 (assuming its given at all which I think looks less likely as time goes by).

[Power n Glory]

We'll soon find out. The kit deal is up soon and we'll see what happens.

In terms of Wenger's future, what makes me edgy is the fact that they're putting out stories about contract talks. That suggests to me that they're either looking to extend and want to find out what he wants to do. If they have no intention of handing him a new deal there is no need to even hold a talk with him this year.

[HCZ]

We'll soon find out. The kit deal is up soon and we'll see what happens.

In terms of Wenger's future, what makes me edgy is the fact that they're putting out stories about contract talks. That suggests to me that they're either looking to extend and want to find out what he wants to do. If they have no intention of handing him a new deal there is no need to even hold a talk with him this year.

Depends if they are planning to axe him early

Plus who knows even if these reports are true

I would still imagine that we will hear nothing and the speculation will begin afresh next season

[HCZ]

Jesus have I really posted on this place over 400 times in the past four weeks ?

[Niall_Quinn]

Jesus have I really posted on this place over 400 times in the past four weeks ?

The amount you post you must really have no life.

[HCZ]

The amount you post you must really have no life.

:haha:

[Power n Glory]

Depends if they are planning to axe him early

Plus who knows even if these reports are true

I would still imagine that we will hear nothing and the speculation will begin afresh next season

I hope they are planning on giving him the boot but I get the feeling they're letting him take the lead and make the decision. Hope I'm wrong.

[Mac76]

bit late to this discussion but basically, yes it was a new low and really disturbing to think that team was our 'B' team pretty much - tbh 'Z' team would be too good for most of them

Welbeck is a walking tragedy - to us anyway - a comedy to anyone else

the best indication yet that Wenger's letting this club rot from the ground upwards, if he stays and we make a bad start to next season, say with injuries to 2-3 of the players who are actually up to the job, we could be in real trouble...