View Full Version : If they stayed....(Nasri & Fabregas)?
Ollie the Optimist
09-07-2011, 09:16 PM
How would you feel?
with cesc, the same as last season though my frustrations might come around quicker if he fails to deliever on the pitch.
nasri can fuck off, it will be the same with ade in his final season
with cesc, the same as last season though my frustrations might come around quicker if he fails to deliever on the pitch.
nasri can fuck off, it will be the same with ade in his final season
Do you think we should believe the press though?
Ollie the Optimist
09-07-2011, 09:24 PM
Do you think we should believe the press though?
tbh yes. with cesc, we all know he wants to go to barca, if he produces it on the pitch, then he will have all our backing, though if he doesnt, he will find the fans will turn quicker because of the antics this summer.
nasri - i think we can believe, he hasnt come out either and denied and some quotes attributed to him in interviews seems to imply he wants to go. he can fuck off for all i care
Toronto Gooner
09-07-2011, 09:27 PM
While they play for Arsenal I will support them as players. If either produces the level of play that we have seen on occasions, then great. However, I suspect that we will be carrying to whiny spoilt brats. If that is the case, they should be put down into the reserves squad.
While they play for Arsenal I will support them as players. If either produces the level of play that we have seen on occasions, then great. However, I suspect that we will be carrying to whiny spoilt brats. If that is the case, they should be put down into the reserves squad.
I'm torn. I believe in no smoke without fire but we all sympathise with players losing the faith....I just wonder what it says if they are still playing for us next season...under sufferance or not?
Ollie the Optimist
09-07-2011, 09:30 PM
I'm torn. I believe smoke without fire but we all sympathise with players losing the faith....I just wonder what it says if they are still playing for us next season...under sufferance or not?
i think we all know what the deal with cesc is so his reception will be fine unless he does an ade which i really dont think he would.
nasri though will have to win over the fans as the tide has turned against him whether he goes or stays.
i think we all know what the deal with cesc is so his reception will be fine unless he does an ade which i really dont think he would.
nasri though will have to win over the fans as the tide has turned against him whether he goes or stays.
I'm not so sure. I reckon Fabregas is more likely to stay than Nasri. And I think that Gooners will feel relieved if Nasri stays...
Toronto Gooner
09-07-2011, 09:39 PM
I'm torn. I believe smoke without fire but we all sympathise with players losing the faith....I just wonder what it says if they are still playing for us next season...under sufferance or not?
The question I have is whether either one has truly "lost faith". I am a cynic in this case and believe that a lot is both financial and agent/adviser driven.
If Fabregas' desire to play for Barcelona was truly emotional homesickness based, he would put in a transfer request and put an end to our misery. No one would begrudge him the desire and many would applaud his conviction. As he has not put in the request which would cost him 2 or 3 million - he loses the signing fee that is payable to him - suggests that this is driven by money. He knows that he will spend more time on the bench than starting for the next 3 or 3 years. It is easy money for him.
With regard to Nasri, he has just come off a a career half-season. I suspect that his advisers have said that Fabregas is going and that he is going to have to carry the team during a very tough transition season. He is looking to cash in on the "reputation" before the possible Arsenal demise drags his value down.
Toronto Gooner
09-07-2011, 09:41 PM
i think we all know what the deal with cesc is so his reception will be fine unless he does an ade which i really dont think he would.
I can only speak for myself but this fan is of the opinion that Fabregas has as much if not more repair work to do than Nasri. If nothing else, he is the club captain.
Ollie the Optimist
09-07-2011, 09:48 PM
I can only speak for myself but this fan is of the opinion that Fabregas has as much if not more repair work to do than Nasri. If nothing else, he is the club captain.
i disagree purely because we all know cesc will go back to barca, if it wasnt for barca being cunts of the highest order he would have gone now.
nasri has more because he had a good three months of all his time here yet thinks he is the best, fans need to see players give their all for the season, not demand more money or hold us to ransom. nasri is, cesc isnt
Power n Glory
09-07-2011, 09:51 PM
It's great news if they stay. The club and Wenger would have shown some backbone and we'd keep two of our best players.
With Nasri, I'd only be happy if he signed a new contract and stayed. No running your contract down type of bollocks.
Would be ecstatic because they're both genuine / potentially world class players and there's no way we're going to replace them with similar quality.
As for attitudes, they can easily be fixed, the problem is Wenger won't make the right moves to fix them.
Ollie the Optimist
09-07-2011, 09:55 PM
It's great news if they stay. The club and Wenger would have shown some backbone and we'd keep two of our best players.
With Nasri, I'd only be happy if he signed a new contract and stayed. No running your contract down type of bollocks.
what would people feel if wenger said to nasri, sign a new contract with your wages increased for one season, then we will sell you. he gets his money, we get his fee
Power n Glory
09-07-2011, 09:58 PM
what would people feel if wenger said to nasri, sign a new contract with your wages increased for one season, then we will sell you. he gets his money, we get his fee
That's what I've been saying from the start. Give him his wages and tell him he has to earn every penny or he's out. I'd be okay with that as well.
what would people feel if wenger said to nasri, sign a new contract with your wages increased for one season, then we will sell you. he gets his money, we get his fee
firstly i'd love to keep them both as they are both very good players.
for the scenario above, it would never ever happen, as he wouldn't risk being tied into a contract and then being told next season 'you're going nowhere'. all he has to do is look at the cesc or modric situation. if we can get a good season out of nas then lose him for nowt, i wouldn't be too bothered.
The question I have is whether either one has truly "lost faith". I am a cynic in this case and believe that a lot is both financial and agent/adviser driven.
If Fabregas' desire to play for Barcelona was truly emotional homesickness based, he would put in a transfer request and put an end to our misery. No one would begrudge him the desire and many would applaud his conviction. As he has not put in the request which would cost him 2 or 3 million - he loses the signing fee that is payable to him - suggests that this is driven by money. He knows that he will spend more time on the bench than starting for the next 3 or 3 years. It is easy money for him.
With regard to Nasri, he has just come off a a career half-season. I suspect that his advisers have said that Fabregas is going and that he is going to have to carry the team during a very tough transition season. He is looking to cash in on the "reputation" before the possible Arsenal demise drags his value down.
A very interesting post, TG.
I agree. I think that we can safely say that both situations are principally agent driven. I do think that there might be a kernel of truth somewhere re cesc's 'homesickness'. But he was ambivalent about his 'dream' when he came to Arsenal, and has undoubtedly benefitted from that decision. I think the 'emotional' issue is far more likely to be an understandable desire to be in the team touted as the best ever - that would exist whether that team was Real Madrid; Bayern Munich or Porto.
But my theory is that the PR/agency aspect for Fabregas is dressing this desire up as a desire to return to his hometown - because that sounds less disloyal. Can we blame the player? Well I don't share your antipathy. The saga has been protracted, yes. But is this down to Fabregas - or is it down to a Barcelona management who have made it thus by simply failing to make an offer we can't refuse? I'd say the latter. And I'd say that the saving grace for Fabregas is that at least he has given us many years of loyal service. That is not a total excuse - after all he owes much to the club. But set against the modern standard set by the likes of Rooney; Tevez; Robinho - for me Cesc is not the worst of offenders.
IMO Nasri is a different matter. I agree with your analysis of what is driving his behaviour - and on the one hand its understandable that he sees this as his shot at the big time. As Adebayor; Flamini and Hleb did before him. But what I don't like about Nasri is that it is more calculated and opportunist even than his predecessors. He refused to negotiate a contract extension last Summer - when he had not exactly set the world alight - and is looking to hold the club to ransom this Summer - on the back of just 4 months' performances that justify the kind of money he wants. At least Adebayor gave us a more or less a season. Nasri's move suggests strongly that he only ever came to us as a stepping stone, or to raise his profile - and to exploit the very first occasion on which he showed some form. So for me he is at the cutting edge of the modern football mercenary movement - yet unlike his fellow ground breaker, Rooney, he doesn't even have the 'decency' to give the club anything before baring his teeth. He is the difference between a woman that you meet in a bar, buy champagne all night and then take home for great sex, and a 3 minute lap dance.
Which is why, if he stays, fans might feel 'relieved' that we have held on to him - but he will never IMO be regarded with any fondness by the fans. And I don't think he gives a damn, either.
Flavs
10-07-2011, 07:30 AM
How would you feel?
No problem with Fabregas, lot of respect for him and he's a world class player. Nasri is a greedy she-male who can FOAD, no offence like
Power n Glory
10-07-2011, 08:12 AM
I've been harsh with Nasri in the past, he is a bit overrated and hides like a little bitch during key moments but I'll say this in his defence. When he first joined, maybe Wenger promised silverware and said we're a club going somewhere. A club with ambition that is looking develop world class talent and build a powerhouse team that will dominate Europe. When he first signed, we must have made out that this was the place to be.
We haven't won anything and over the last two seasons we've buckled when coming close to winning something. Second, Nasri isn't a winger and prefers playing in the middle. Wenger insists on playing on the flanks where he isn't that effective and that must also be pissing him off.
There are two sides to every story and the greedy mercenary type doesn't add up with his past record at Marseille or his interviews. In real life, I'd never stay with a company that pays low wages, has me working in a department that doesn't suite my skills and has no ambition to expand or evolve as a business, and last but not least, a place where the costumer's complain about how the companies run and even your colleagues are complaining about the place and there is a higher than average staff turnover rate. Why would I want to stay with such a company and commit another 4 years of my life to a lost cause?
selassie
10-07-2011, 08:17 AM
what would people feel if wenger said to nasri, sign a new contract with your wages increased for one season, then we will sell you. he gets his money, we get his fee
I've got a feeling this will happen. I think this is what happened last season with Cesc and until Barca meet our valuation he will have to stay here.
Hopefully if Nasri signs his new deal and has a storming season we can sell him for a small fortune next summer, that would be the best scenario for all involved.
KSE Comedy Club
10-07-2011, 09:13 AM
I dont really give a shit either way tbh.
If they stay nothing will change, we'll play the same way - tippy tappy bollox - and the season will follow the same pattern as every other one for the last few years.
If they go they wont be adequately replaced with real quality, in effect we may even do worse than the last few years.
Either way, wenger should be pouring his effort or 'fight' into buying some new players. That would certainly make these two guys think about what the really want to do.
They want to see the club match their ambition, bring in a couple of PL CB's, a winger and a good striker - show the team that the club want to be back among the top tier because despite what wenger thinks, we arent there anymore.
Joker
10-07-2011, 10:14 AM
I'd prefer it if they both left tbh, because if neither transfer goes through, I think we'll be left with two unhappy players, and while it's possible both will be professional and try their best for Arsenal, the more likely scenario is that both Cesc and Nasri continue to perform like they did in the second half of last season, with added moodiness. We can't afford to keep players like that, which is why I hope we flog both of them this summer and get a couple of top quality, motivated attacking midfielders in.
Olivier's xmas twist
10-07-2011, 11:50 AM
what would people feel if wenger said to nasri, sign a new contract with your wages increased for one season, then we will sell you. he gets his money, we get his fee
Id have respect for AW again that way he could make sure that we get maxium for Nasri. id would not mind if he did that this season but he still got sold tbh.
As for them staying if they behaved professional for us and Cesc told Pique to STFU if get behind them even more
Toronto Gooner
10-07-2011, 12:17 PM
A very interesting post, TG.
I agree. I think that we can safely say that both situations are principally agent driven. I do think that there might be a kernel of truth somewhere re cesc's 'homesickness'. But he was ambivalent about his 'dream' when he came to Arsenal, and has undoubtedly benefitted from that decision. I think the 'emotional' issue is far more likely to be an understandable desire to be in the team touted as the best ever - that would exist whether that team was Real Madrid; Bayern Munich or Porto.
But my theory is that the PR/agency aspect for Fabregas is dressing this desire up as a desire to return to his hometown - because that sounds less disloyal. Can we blame the player? Well I don't share your antipathy. The saga has been protracted, yes. But is this down to Fabregas - or is it down to a Barcelona management who have made it thus by simply failing to make an offer we can't refuse? I'd say the latter. And I'd say that the saving grace for Fabregas is that at least he has given us many years of loyal service. That is not a total excuse - after all he owes much to the club. But set against the modern standard set by the likes of Rooney; Tevez; Robinho - for me Cesc is not the worst of offenders.
IMO Nasri is a different matter. I agree with your analysis of what is driving his behaviour - and on the one hand its understandable that he sees this as his shot at the big time. As Adebayor; Flamini and Hleb did before him. But what I don't like about Nasri is that it is more calculated and opportunist even than his predecessors. He refused to negotiate a contract extension last Summer - when he had not exactly set the world alight - and is looking to hold the club to ransom this Summer - on the back of just 4 months' performances that justify the kind of money he wants. At least Adebayor gave us a more or less a season. Nasri's move suggests strongly that he only ever came to us as a stepping stone, or to raise his profile - and to exploit the very first occasion on which he showed some form. So for me he is at the cutting edge of the modern football mercenary movement - yet unlike his fellow ground breaker, Rooney, he doesn't even have the 'decency' to give the club anything before baring his teeth. He is the difference between a woman that you meet in a bar, buy champagne all night and then take home for great sex, and a 3 minute lap dance.
Which is why, if he stays, fans might feel 'relieved' that we have held on to him - but he will never IMO be regarded with any fondness by the fans. And I don't think he gives a damn, either.
I have to reciprocate: Good post and points. I have to say that I might have come across with more antipathy than intended. I do agree that Fabregas does have a desire to return to Barcelona because it is his home and the club is the best in the world. I just wish he had been more up front about things and that he had publicly told his "friends" at Barcelona to keep quiet.
In reality, I am agnostic to both of them and apathetic to the situation.
Niall_Quinn
10-07-2011, 03:52 PM
How would you feel?
I'd be very happy and relieved because in order for them to stay it would imply something has to happen soon that gives a clear indication we are serious about competing next year. Right now, as the weeks wind down, we seem far more concerned about weakening the team in return for cash that is either going to be spunked on dross like Downing or maybe even retained by an anti-football board that has been killing us year on year since 2005.
Niall_Quinn
10-07-2011, 03:55 PM
Do you think we should believe the press though?
No. We should believe Wenger's actions though. So far nobody of note (and I include Gervinho) has been signed. We desperately needed signings and none have arrived. We also needed to get rid of some of the deadwood, yet they are all gearing up for the pre-season tour. Nothing is changing at the club when we needed change. There's still time but Wenger's words aren't encouraging. The only positive I can take from what's going on at the moment is Wenger will surely be sacked next year if he once again refuses to fix the problems.
Master Splinter
10-07-2011, 03:59 PM
I'd be very happy and relieved because in order for them to stay it would imply something has to happen soon that gives a clear indication we are serious about competing next year.
Or Nasri has been given a huge pay rise and Barcelona have once again shown that they're not that bothered about Fabregas by bidding no more than 65p and a pack of Seabrook crisps for him?
Niall_Quinn
10-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Or Nasri has been given a huge pay rise and Barcelona have once again shown that they're not that bothered about Fabregas by bidding no more than 65p and a pack of Seabrook crisps for him?
Possibly, but keeping two of our key players rather than losing them has got to be a good thing. If they want to bitch and whine or under-perform then drop them, fine them, start treating them like employees who are paid to do a job rather than favoured children who can do no wrong. They'll get the message soon enough. Their greed could be turned against them and utilised.
Japan Shaking All Over
10-07-2011, 05:03 PM
TBH Id say goodbye to Cesc easier than Nasri
when the stories started to appear I thought that Nas could step into Cesc role and provide the creative spark
those thoughts soured when I started hearing the reasoning behind Nasri wanting out or his demands to stay........that of course was me taking the papers on their word, which in hindsight is a dangerous thing to do
my worry is that they stay and are moody doing so, I hear the call to bench/fine such actions but that may be easier said than done.....if we havent got the quality to replace them with
so part of me wishes to cash in and build again but another part of me worries about the time we have left and the inactivity we have shown in the transfer market so far
taking Nas to Asia is right, he is still our player and it makes me think that of the two he is the most likely to stay.......Cesc not going and I havent heard any reason (please enlighten me) shows me that some of the talk of an immediate transfer could be true
if one or both go of course we satnd to lose but I have to have belief that there is a plan for this happening as Wenger (no matter what people call him) cannot seriously think we stand a chance of standing our ground without quality replacements
I have to reciprocate: Good post and points. I have to say that I might have come across with more antipathy than intended. I do agree that Fabregas does have a desire to return to Barcelona because it is his home and the club is the best in the world. I just wish he had been more up front about things and that he had publicly told his "friends" at Barcelona to keep quiet.
In reality, I am agnostic to both of them and apathetic to the situation.
:lol:
Letters
11-07-2011, 10:25 AM
nasri though will have to win over the fans as the tide has turned against him whether he goes or stays.
He'd only have to put in one good performance, score a goal.
Fans are fickle idiots.
Coney
11-07-2011, 10:41 AM
He'd only have to put in one good performance, score a goal.
Fans are fickle idiots.
How long have you been a fan?
Letters
11-07-2011, 10:51 AM
How long have you been a fan?
Not long. I used to support Liverpool but they got crap. I switched to Arsenal so I could still wear my red tops.
Go Arsenal :scarf:
AKBapologist
11-07-2011, 11:33 AM
Don't really care about Cesc.
Nasri on the other hand, if he starts the new season with out a new contract, wenger has officially lost it.
I have to reciprocate: Good post and points. I have to say that I might have come across with more antipathy than intended. I do agree that Fabregas does have a desire to return to Barcelona because it is his home and the club is the best in the world. I just wish he had been more up front about things and that he had publicly told his "friends" at Barcelona to keep quiet.
In reality, I am agnostic to both of them and apathetic to the situation.
How could he have been more up front about it?
If he had told his friends to STFU and they didn't listen, are you going to blame him for it?
Dog Toffee
11-07-2011, 12:32 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14088970.stm
BBC Sport, something about Nasri staying. Whooo.
Power n Glory
11-07-2011, 12:35 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14088970.stm
BBC Sport, something about Nasri staying. Whooo.
Don't believe the hype. When the press asked about his contract, Wenger said that it's a different matter.
Coney
11-07-2011, 12:43 PM
Not long. I used to support Nottingham Forest but they got crap. I switched to Arsenal so I could still wear my red tops by just changing the sleeves.
Go Arsenal :scarf:
Fixed it for you.
Cripps_orig
11-07-2011, 12:49 PM
Dont mind Nasri staying.
Cesc can fuck off.
selassie
11-07-2011, 12:51 PM
Don't believe the hype. When the press asked about his contract, Wenger said that it's a different matter.
Yeah it seems that Wenger has convinced Nasri to stay at least for this season or the short term, i'm not confident that he'll be able to talk him round to sign a new contract.
Nasri has the club by the balls, wouldn't he be free to talk to other clubs in January as he'll be in the last 6 months of his contract?
It would be sickening to lose Nasri on a free to one of our rivals...really sickening.
Japan Shaking All Over
11-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Ive said that Nasri can stay.......but if he is being promised some kind of special 'wait and see how things pan out' contract then I am seriously ready to torch the place.......we cannot be dictated to, quite the opposite, if he doesnt want to play for us then let him go preferably to a non-rival and for as much money as possible
Cesc on the other hand is always going to go on of these days, tbh I'm fed up of the stories and want just shid of the whole affair......if we sell him so be it (yes I know footballing sense its not the best move but why not get it over with and start to build again)
"Nasri, no. I don't think he's coming to United," said Ferguson. "I think he's agreed to go somewhere else. Maybe he has to stay at Arsenal too. That's a possibility."
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/100589.html
Toronto Gooner
12-07-2011, 01:54 AM
How could he have been more up front about it?
If he had told his friends to STFU and they didn't listen, are you going to blame him for it?
Sorry Boss but I do not buy that. In the case of being up front, why not put in a transfer request? And with friends like that, who needs enemies?
ElusiveGooner
12-07-2011, 02:45 AM
What happened to the days when a club was bigger than a player?? Good grief! The noise coming out of Wenger at the moment about not wanting to lose our best players is avoiding the point. If we lose the pair, we should immediately replace them with the best players we can afford. Then move on.
We only have to look at Liverpool to see how it is done. They sold Torres, arguably their best player, and actually improved their team. Wenger should sell both of them to the highest bidder and use the money to immediately replace them.
Unfortuantely, Wenger just does not learn from his mistakes. My hunch is that Nasri will stay for another season. He'll go through the motions, score a couple goals and kiss the badge. But he will not sign another contract with Arsenal.
Cue March 2012 collapse in Arsenal's title challenge, and news that Nasri has signed a contract with Man City for 200k a week on a bosman.
How many French internationals is this guy going to lose for a song before he gets the message?
What happened to the days when a club was bigger than a player?? Good grief! The noise coming out of Wenger at the moment about not wanting to lose our best players is avoiding the point. If we lose the pair, we should immediately replace them with the best players we can afford. Then move on.
We only have to look at Liverpool to see how it is done. They sold Torres, arguably their best player, and actually improved their team. Wenger should sell both of them to the highest bidder and use the money to immediately replace them.
Unfortuantely, Wenger just does not learn from his mistakes. My hunch is that Nasri will stay for another season. He'll go through the motions, score a couple goals and kiss the badge. But he will not sign another contract with Arsenal.
Cue March 2012 collapse in Arsenal's title challenge, and news that Nasri has signed a contract with Man City for 200k a week on a bosman.
How many French internationals is this guy going to lose for a song before he gets the message?
Agreed. there comes a point where you have to accept the inevitable and move on. Keeping Nasri would be a phyrric victory, because if he wants out now, I just can't see us getting an additional £20M out of him in his last season. And in terms of PR/status the damage is done anyway if its common knowledge that he wants to play elsewhere. The Fabregas saga over the past couple of years hasn't exactly enhanced our standing as a club, has it?
I'm afraid that this smacks of AW going through the same Groundhog Day - the belief that if he puts off these departures, then suddenly; magically, the team will blossom and then then they will want to stay. I'm all for continuity, but we do also need to remember that these payers were part of the team that has collapsed habitually. We should not be scared of moving on - provided the talent is brought in.
Ive said that Nasri can stay.......but if he is being promised some kind of special 'wait and see how things pan out' contract then I am seriously ready to torch the place.......we cannot be dictated to, quite the opposite, if he doesnt want to play for us then let him go preferably to a non-rival and for as much money as possible
Cesc on the other hand is always going to go on of these days, tbh I'm fed up of the stories and want just shid of the whole affair......if we sell him so be it (yes I know footballing sense its not the best move but why not get it over with and start to build again)
I don't think he is being offered a contract, but for sure Wenger is trying to convince him that the coming season will change his mind...just like he did with fabregas last year.
Alan B'stard
13-07-2011, 08:47 PM
How would you feel?
if they are professional and want to play? fine.
Don't have a problem with then staying, do however have a problem with losing Nasri on a free when we seem to spend next to nothing on transfers, losing his transfer fee would surely leave us with even less spending.
Personally if he doesn't want to sign a new contract I'd cash in and get a quality replacement in, not ideal but at least we can re-invest....if we lose him for nothing we lose a quality player and don't have the money to spend to replace him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14088970.stm
Arsenal boss Wenger prepared to lose Nasri for free
Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger is prepared to lose Samir Nasri on a free transfer next summer rather than sell him now.
Nasri, 24, has 12 months left on his contract and BBC Sport understands Manchester United made an offer of almost £20m for the midfielder in June.
"I'm willing to keep him for another year, even if it means we risk losing him for nothing in a year's time," said Wenger, whose side are in Malaysia.
"I think the board agrees with me as it is a technical decision."
He added: "Our goal is to win the championship and we need good players to do that."
Wenger was delighted with Nasri's performance in a 4-0 win over a Malaysia XI on Wednesday.
"Samir has always been committed to the team and we saw that today," Wenger said. "He did very well coming off the bench."
Arsenal play in China on Saturday before flying back to Europe.
Nasri has so far refused to sign a new contract with Arsenal and has also been linked with Chelsea and Manchester City.
Wenger is reluctant to see one of his key performers - a player he would like as a cornerstone of a rebuilt Arsenal team - move to a Premier League rival.
Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson, however, is determined to strengthen his midfield after the retirement of Paul Scholes and with Ryan Giggs coming to the end of his career.
Tottenham's Luka Modric and Inter Milan's Wesley Sneijder have been touted as possible targets for Ferguson, but the fact that United have made a firm offer for Nasri suggests they are optimistic that a deal can be done, despite Wenger's determination not to sell - and especially to Old Trafford.
Arsenal have offered Nasri an improved, long-term deal at the Emirates and were confident he would sign towards the end of last season, but doubts have grown throughout the summer, encouraging suitors that they can prise him away from north London.
So he wants to hold onto Nasri as we want to win the title.
I've got news for him, he's got two hopes, Bob hope and no hope!
He's barely strenghtened, is going to rely on a crock at full back and seems quite happy with everything despite the calamity that is last season (apparently we've got something to prove - thing is this team aren't capable of proving anything as they don't have the motivation or bottle let's face it).
So basically he's happy to p*ss 20 million up the wall on a whim.
Bob Hope would cost too much; and we already have one hope, so why would we need another one :sulk:
Letters
14-07-2011, 09:21 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14088970.stm
So he wants to hold onto Nasri as we want to win the title.
I've got news for him, he's got two hopes, Bob hope and no hope!
He's barely strenghtened, is going to rely on a crock at full back and seems quite happy with everything despite the calamity that is last season (apparently we've got something to prove - thing is this team aren't capable of proving anything as they don't have the motivation or bottle let's face it).
So basically he's happy to p*ss 20 million up the wall on a whim.
And in the othe thread you said...
Would be fine about Clichy, would not be fine about Nasri. Not only will we be losing one of our better players but who trusts Wenger to replace him adequately.
If we lose Cesc, Nasri and Clichy and don't get rid of Denilson and Bendtner it will have been another disastrous summer....so much for great spirit and togetherness!
So first you moaned that we might be selling him. Now you're moaning Wenger's looking to keep him.
There go the goalposts!
And in the othe thread you said...
So first you moaned that we might be selling him. Now you're moaning Wenger's looking to keep him.
There go the goalposts!
Not moving the goalposts at all, I wouldn't like to lose Nasri as I rate him highly...but I'd rather lose him now than for nothing next summer!
I'd like him to sign a new contract, if he doesn't we'd be foolish to keep him as we will lose a quality player and have no money to replace him.
So yes my point stands, would hate to lose him but would rather lose him now and get a quality replacement in then in a year and not. But yes Wenger probably would scrimp again, we'd have to hope he didn't which may be unlikely but we can hope!
We shouldn't have left ourselves open to this situation to be honest.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14088970.stm
So he wants to hold onto Nasri as we want to win the title.
I've got news for him, he's got two hopes, Bob hope and no hope!
He's barely strenghtened, is going to rely on a crock at full back and seems quite happy with everything despite the calamity that is last season (apparently we've got something to prove - thing is this team aren't capable of proving anything as they don't have the motivation or bottle let's face it).
So basically he's happy to p*ss 20 million up the wall on a whim.
I would dearly, dearly love to know how AW believes he is going to win the title with basically the same team as last year, less Clichy.
I would dearly, dearly love to know how AW believes he is going to win the title with basically the same team as last year, less Clichy.
Wouldn't we all.
He just doesn't seem to live in the real world these days.
Not moving the goalposts at all, I wouldn't like to lose Nasri as I rate him highly...but I'd rather lose him now than for nothing next summer!
I'd like him to sign a new contract, if he doesn't we'd be foolish to keep him as we will lose a quality player and have no money to replace him.
So yes my point stands, would hate to lose him but would rather lose him now and get a quality replacement in then in a year and not. But yes Wenger probably would scrimp again, we'd have to hope he didn't which may be unlikely but we can hope!
We shouldn't have left ourselves open to this situation to be honest.
What situation?? We offered hm a new contract worth a shit load of money. That City can offer a shitload more is not our fault, unless you want us to sign up to sugardaddydom?????
That contract was on the table last year. Two years before his current one expires. Is that too late??? Or should we have done it three years ago when the cunt was doing nothing for us....surely you'd be pissed off with offering 90k to someone who has done fuck all?? Just like you're pissed off we pay Bender 52k a week....
We didn't leave ourselves open to it contractually. If he doesn't want to sign, he doesn't have to sign....and if you believe all the bollocks about ambition, you're severely deluded...because the size of City's squad, he won't be getting many games anyway...or at least, a lot of the players in that side won't get games this year....that's not ambition if you're not part of a winning side, playing week in week out. That's looking for cash.
And as far as ambition goes, perhaps the little dike should have put in some performances at the back end of last season. You can blame Wenger all you like for the mistakes he made, and there was lots of them....but if you can't rely on one of your so called "big players" to produce when it matters most (and this is not down to Wenger, this is down to the player to work hard and put the effort in), then quite frankly. FUCK HIM.
I agree we need to sell, and sell now to get a return on him....but, Wenger seems to be making a statement, which I quite like. "Fuck of City, he's still our player, and you won't be signing one of our best players, because we don't want to sell him to you, you bunch of cunting cheaty moneybag cunts".
Letters
14-07-2011, 09:43 AM
Not moving the goalposts at all, I wouldn't like to lose Nasri as I rate him highly...but I'd rather lose him now than for nothing next summer!
Those aren't neccessarily the only two options. He might sign a new contract or, if he doesn't now he might be convinced to over the next year depending how things go. It's a gamble but if Wenger can keep him and he plays consistently as well as he did the first half of last season then I'd rather have him than not.
Those aren't neccessarily the only two options. He might sign a new contract or, if he doesn't now he might be convinced to over the next year depending how things go. It's a gamble but if Wenger can keep him and he plays consistently as well as he did the first half of last season then I'd rather have him than not.
Can't see him signing a new contract, simply because I don't see us being any better than last season.
If we'd invested and made changes thing could have been different, but going into the season with a largely similar squad isn't going to bring in trophies which would convince Nasri to stay.
He wants to win trophies, I don't think we can give him that at this time.
He's only interested in money. Christ alive.
He's only interested in money. Christ alive.
I disagree, I think he wants to win trophies.
Money will be a bonus but his main motivation is success which we're sadly lacking around these parts.
I disagree, I think he wants to win trophies.
Money will be a bonus but his main motivation is success which we're sadly lacking around these parts.
Ok, City won the cup. But they got beaten by us at their gaff, and had to put fifty men behind the ball at our gaff to get a draw.
WE let them into 3rd place. And Nasri was partly to blame for that.
They haven't consistently shown that they can win trophies, they have shown that they can afford any player they want, and pay whatever they want.
So tell me, does Nasri want to win trophies like that, perhaps not playing much, with a team of mercenaries who have flocked to the cash (and please don't tell me they haven't bought their current status, as they were fucking shite before the money)....or is it in fact more ambitious to try and win trophies at a club which needs someone to work to achieve success.
If he actually put in the effort, like Cesc has for example, I, and every Arsenal fan would, I guess, graciously accept that it hasn't worked, and that he wants to move to win things.
But given that the fucking lesbian hasn't lifted a finger for 75% of his Arsenal playing career, I would suggest he's taking the easy option....and why?? 'Cos he doesn't have to work for it, and he'll get paid a load more money. That's not ambition in my eyes, that's a massive cunt.
Ok, City won the cup. But they got beaten by us at their gaff, and had to put fifty men behind the ball at our gaff to get a draw.
WE let them into 3rd place. And Nasri was partly to blame for that.
They haven't consistently shown that they can win trophies, they have shown that they can afford any player they want, and pay whatever they want.
So tell me, does Nasri want to win trophies like that, perhaps not playing much, with a team of mercenaries who have flocked to the cash (and please don't tell me they haven't bought their current status, as they were fucking shite before the money)....or is it in fact more ambitious to try and win trophies at a club which needs someone to work to achieve success.
If he actually put in the effort, like Cesc has for example, I, and every Arsenal fan would, I guess, graciously accept that it hasn't worked, and that he wants to move to win things.
But given that the fucking lesbian hasn't lifted a finger for 75% of his Arsenal playing career, I would suggest he's taking the easy option....and why?? 'Cos he doesn't have to work for it, and he'll get paid a load more money. That's not ambition in my eyes, that's a massive cunt.
Pretty much. :good:
Ok, City won the cup. But they got beaten by us at their gaff, and had to put fifty men behind the ball at our gaff to get a draw.
WE let them into 3rd place. And Nasri was partly to blame for that.
They haven't consistently shown that they can win trophies, they have shown that they can afford any player they want, and pay whatever they want.
So tell me, does Nasri want to win trophies like that, perhaps not playing much, with a team of mercenaries who have flocked to the cash (and please don't tell me they haven't bought their current status, as they were fucking shite before the money)....or is it in fact more ambitious to try and win trophies at a club which needs someone to work to achieve success.
If he actually put in the effort, like Cesc has for example, I, and every Arsenal fan would, I guess, graciously accept that it hasn't worked, and that he wants to move to win things.
But given that the fucking lesbian hasn't lifted a finger for 75% of his Arsenal playing career, I would suggest he's taking the easy option....and why?? 'Cos he doesn't have to work for it, and he'll get paid a load more money. That's not ambition in my eyes, that's a massive cunt.
You have to remember they haven't had this money for that long, but they're clearly moving in the right direction.
Yes he was partly to blame, but it's a team game and it's the manager's job to get the best out of them, is it a coincidence that almost everyone went off the boil?
They haven't you're right, but they've started, moreover top players want to play with other top players....they often cite examples of players they'd love to play alongside and City can offer that now.
Nasri clearly feels he's good enough to get into the team (though City is unconfirmed, remember the rumour about Man U was much stronger), it's all very good saying that he could play with a which needs some work to win trophies, but that's not us.
Let's be real here, this manager and team aren't able to win trophies it's been consistently shown over 6 years. Wenger won't make the changes and continues to follow this deluded path, is it a surprise top players want to leave? Most peope don't believe in what he's doing and why should they, he's failed.
If I was him I'd move to a club moving forward too, a club who have ambition rather than stick around at a club who seem happy to stand still and are content with 4th place hailing it as some sort of major trophy.
If we were showing clear signs of ambition and moving forward it would be different, we really aren't though and yet nothing changes.
Sorry mate, but you're not getting the point.
He was offered a new contract worth a lot of money, BEFORE last season.
BEFORE he did anything spectacular.
I was responding originally to your point about "the situation", which is our fault apparently, which is quite clearly bullshit.
He wants the money.
Sorry mate, but you're not getting the point.
He was offered a new contract worth a lot of money, BEFORE last season.
BEFORE he did anything spectacular.
I was responding originally to your point about "the situation", which is our fault apparently, which is quite clearly bullshit.
He wants the money.
So you don't find it odd we let contract negotiation run on forever?
Moreover seems to me like many of our players he doesn't believe in this project and that is the problem, had he he would have signed before.
Who can blame him for that?
I don't believe it's about money, I believe it's about AW's transfer policy and his methods which yield no results.
Bendtner, Denilson, Cesc, Nasri, Clichy all have said they wanted out, even RVP has called for signings.......that suggests to me there's a problem there, they don't believe in Wenger.
So you don't find it odd we let contract negotiation run on forever?
Moreover seems to me like many of our players he doesn't believe in this project and that is the problem, had he he would have signed before.
Who can blame him for that?
I don't believe it's about money, I believe it's about AW's transfer policy and his methods which yield no results.
Bendtner, Denilson, Cesc, Nasri, Clichy all have said they wanted out, even RVP has called for signings.......that suggests to me there's a problem there, they don't believe in Wenger.
AGAIN. This is all AFTER the season. He was offered a lucrative contract BEFORE the season....and it was still on the table whilst we were basically top of the league, up in the first leg against Barca, in the final of a cup, and still in the FA cup.
We didn't let it run on forever. We offered him a MORE than good deal, considering he'd done fuck all for the club, and we were quite within our rights to say "piss off you cunt" when the greedly little fucker said he wants more....effectively holding us to ransom.
I agree, that AFTER the season we had, that people want to see change, signings and righting the wrongs. I'm in that camp, and for my part, I will not be attending many games because I won't pay for it.
But you can bet your bottom dollar, if we offered him 250k a week, he'd stay. And if you don't believe that, you're a big fat hairy knob :lol:
AGAIN. This is all AFTER the season. He was offered a lucrative contract BEFORE the season....and it was still on the table whilst we were basically top of the league, up in the first leg against Barca, in the final of a cup, and still in the FA cup.
We didn't let it run on forever. We offered him a MORE than good deal, considering he'd done fuck all for the club, and we were quite within our rights to say "piss off you cunt" when the greedly little fucker said he wants more....effectively holding us to ransom.
I agree, that AFTER the season we had, that people want to see change, signings and righting the wrongs. I'm in that camp, and for my part, I will not be attending many games because I won't pay for it.
But you can bet your bottom dollar, if we offered him 250k a week, he'd stay. And if you don't believe that, you're a big fat hairy knob :lol:
If you offer any player that much they would as let's be honest it's a hell of a lot of money (money can persuade you without being the only factor), so that point doesn't really hold much water. If you're in a job you hate and want to leave and they come back and offer you crazy money you'd probably stay, at least for a bit as it's too tempting not to.
Throughout our season I never believed we would win anything, we'd seen collapses before and I'd seen enough poor performances/results to show nothing had changed.
Players rarely sign during mid season, they wait till a season is over to assess a situation.
I still maintain the situation is the root cause of our problems holding onto players not the financial side, if we were winning titles and cups I'm pretty sure he would have signed.
Who knows what was offered last season anyway, but maybe he had his doubts then after another poor season.
Pretty much.
People are hating on Nasri simply cos he doesn't want to be here.
Same thing with Fabregas.
Pretty much.
People are hating on Nasri simply cos he doesn't want to be here.
Same thing with Fabregas.
Yup I agree.
With the greatest respect, you're either trying desperately not to concede the point, or you're just stupid :lol:
i) Offer on the table, well before contract expiry
ii) 90k. Much more than he was worth
iii) He'd done nothing of note to deserve that
iv) He himself said we were the best team last year. Why would he say that, and not want to stay with the so called "best team"
v) He was part of the collapse
So. Forget the 250k. What was it he wanted....I think it was parity with Cesc if rumour is to be believed. We said fuck off, and rightly so.
But as soon as a whiff of MORE than Cesc gets is on the table, he reverses his stance from "we're the best team", "I want parity with Cesc" and says he's off, it;s not about money, it's about ambition
with the greatest respect to you Zimm (and you make a lot of valid points) you're completely wrong here.
He wants the money. It's all it's about.
Pretty much.
People are hating on Nasri simply cos he doesn't want to be here.
Same thing with Fabregas.
Wrong.
I would love Nasri to stay.
Cesc can go.
It's about the football for me. As I've said loads of times. Cesc slows us down and is too central.
Nasri is a real talent, and I would love him to stay and sign a new deal....but if he's gonna be a cunt about it, I'd rather we got shot, just like we did with Ade.
Furthermore, this is about the point Zimm made about "us" or "wenger" causing the problem, which is quite frankly bullshit, as I've quite clearly stated.
You're assuming that he wants the money based on press rumours and nothing more than that.
His words are that he wants to challenge for trophies, and doesn't believe we're doing that or making the right steps to do so. Van Persie made the same noises.
If he was offered such a good contract before the season, which was 'much more than he was worth', why wouldn't he take it if he was all about the money?
Clichy who hardly strikes you as someone being interested in money went to Man Citeh. Why? For the football project.
With the greatest respect, you're either trying desperately not to concede the point, or you're just stupid :lol:
i) Offer on the table, well before contract expiry
ii) 90k. Much more than he was worth
iii) He'd done nothing of note to deserve that
iv) He himself said we were the best team last year. Why would he say that, and not want to stay with the so called "best team"
v) He was part of the collapse
So. Forget the 250k. What was it he wanted....I think it was parity with Cesc if rumour is to be believed. We said fuck off, and rightly so.
But as soon as a whiff of MORE than Cesc gets is on the table, he reverses his stance from "we're the best team", "I want parity with Cesc" and says he's off, it;s not about money, it's about ambition
with the greatest respect to you Zimm (and you make a lot of valid points) you're completely wrong here.
He wants the money. It's all it's about.
i) He didn't sign, clearly he had doubts
ii) Debatable looking at salaries at moment and his performance last season (for part of it at least, also Man U interested)
iii) Neither have a lot of players on that amount, didn't he win an award last season at least?
iv) I don't recall that, but words are words and often said in the heat of the moment, Bendtner etc were saying all kinds of sh*t and yet want to leave now.
v) As I've already said it's a team game, the manager is to blame for this IMO.
We'll have to disagree on this, for a start the Man U rumour was stronger yet he could get more at City, this alone shows he wants trophies.
What was and wasn't offered and was said is hard to gauge, but what's clear is there's little harmony at the club (you can see that from the things players have said and done), why would you want to stay with us if Man U come knocking?
You're assuming that he wants the money based on press rumours and nothing more than that.
His words are that he wants to challenge for trophies, and doesn't believe we're doing that or making the right steps to do so. Van Persie made the same noises.
If he was offered such a good contract before the season, which was 'much more than he was worth', why wouldn't he take it if he was all about the money?
Clichy who hardly strikes you as someone being interested in money went to Man Citeh. Why? For the football project.
Again great post, City do have a lot of money for sure, but the appeal is also that they are clearly moving in the right direction and want to win all the big trophies (albeit using large amounts of cash).
I don't think players care about the fact trophies are won with big spending, a medal is a medal at the end of the day and at the end of your career noone will say they're not proper medals.
Plus the chance to play with top top players is also appealing.
You're assuming that he wants the money based on press rumours and nothing more than that.
His words are that he wants to challenge for trophies, and doesn't believe we're doing that or making the right steps to do so. Van Persie made the same noises.
If he was offered such a good contract before the season, which was 'much more than he was worth', why wouldn't he take it if he was all about the money?
Clichy who hardly strikes you as someone being interested in money went to Man Citeh. Why? For the football project.
Why wouldn't he take it?? Because he wanted more of course! Deary me. That's why he wouldn't sign it!
Clichy? Was on his way out anyway. Plus he was shit for us. And I really couldn't give two hoots about him. And if you wanna twist the tables....then if Wenger was desperate to keep hold of him, why didn't he do what he's doing with Nasri??? Tells you something dunnit??
Why wouldn't he take it?? Because he wanted more of course! Deary me. That's why he wouldn't sign it!
Clichy? Was on his way out anyway. Plus he was shit for us. And I really couldn't give two hoots about him. And if you wanna twist the tables....then if Wenger was desperate to keep hold of him, why didn't he do what he's doing with Nasri??? Tells you something dunnit??
Or because we'd had another disappointing season ending in failure maybe?
Even in the old days, when we failed to win players we linked with moves away and didn't seem too happy, it's no different now.
Olivier's xmas twist
14-07-2011, 11:02 AM
Pretty much.
People are hating on Nasri simply cos he doesn't want to be here.
Same thing with Fabregas.
Wrong people are hating on him because he is a twat who thinks he is better then he is.
Darth Vela
14-07-2011, 11:04 AM
You're assuming that he wants the money based on press rumours and nothing more than that.
His words are that he wants to challenge for trophies, and doesn't believe we're doing that or making the right steps to do so. Van Persie made the same noises.
If he was offered such a good contract before the season, which was 'much more than he was worth', why wouldn't he take it if he was all about the money?
Clichy who hardly strikes you as someone being interested in money went to Man Citeh. Why? For the football project.
Good points on Nasri, I think a reasonable chunk of it is about the money but if you're happy at a club and winning trophies you're more likely to be happy with less money, nowt we can do about that though.
Clichy went because he knew his days were numbered, he'd stagnated and with a few guys looking over his shoulder at the LB spot he wanted out to go somewhere he could improve and get first team football, rather than to go to a team where he's guaranteed trophies, which is what I assume you mean by 'project' or at the very least, somewhere he reckons he'll win something before he can here.
Or because we'd had another disappointing season ending in failure maybe?
Even in the old days, when we failed to win players we linked with moves away and didn't seem too happy, it's no different now.
Who you talking about Nasri or Clichy??
Nasri....please don't make me go over it again. It's irritating me now, and you're ignoring everything I've already explained to you about 10 times this morning, in detail, and it's pretty conclusive.
Clichy...maybe. But like I said, why isn't wenger doing the same with him as he is with Nasri??
I don't dispute that players are dissapointed. I have not at any point said otherwise. But you really are making a mug of yourself with the Nasri thing, because it's as clear as day.
Who you talking about Nasri or Clichy??
Nasri....please don't make me go over it again. It's irritating me now, and you're ignoring everything I've already explained to you about 10 times this morning, in detail, and it's pretty conclusive.
Clichy...maybe. But like I said, why isn't wenger doing the same with him as he is with Nasri??
I don't dispute that players are dissapointed. I have not at any point said otherwise. But you really are making a mug of yourself with the Nasri thing, because it's as clear as day.
I was talking about Nasri.
Ah come on so he got offered a contract last summer, so what?
We'd just had another disappointing season, why exactly should he sign and commit more years...you've just admitted it was more money so if he was all about money surely he would have?
For some reason you're ignoring that point, you expect players to just jump up and sign just because more money is offered...even though a season has ended badly, that's not usually how it works with players who want to win stuff, they want to see you're making changes and signing the right players as well!
I don't see it like you at all, if we offered him more money last summer and that's all he cared about why not sign there and then (he hadn't pulled any trees out at that stage as you've said).
In short I disagree with you about Nasri. People more often than not turn it into a money argument when players wants to leave, sometimes it's true but there's also success to think about...that's why players go to Chelsea, Barca, Man U etc...not just money.
i) He didn't sign, clearly he had doubts
ii) Debatable looking at salaries at moment and his performance last season (for part of it at least, also Man U interested)
iii) Neither have a lot of players on that amount, didn't he win an award last season at least?
iv) I don't recall that, but words are words and often said in the heat of the moment, Bendtner etc were saying all kinds of sh*t and yet want to leave now.
v) As I've already said it's a team game, the manager is to blame for this IMO.
We'll have to disagree on this, for a start the Man U rumour was stronger yet he could get more at City, this alone shows he wants trophies.
What was and wasn't offered and was said is hard to gauge, but what's clear is there's little harmony at the club (you can see that from the things players have said and done), why would you want to stay with us if Man U come knocking?
Sorry. Missed this...
Erm. You said we'd let the saga run, yes?? And I said the contract was on the table BEFORE BEFORE BEFORE BE-FUCKING-FORE the seaons started. Got that yet??
And, it was for 90k. Which based on his performace (see point iii)) he'd done sod all to deserve.
He wanted Cesc wages, and that is why he wouldn't sign that contract. BEFORE. I say again. BEFORE last season started.
"words are words and often said in the heat of the moment"....be nice if you forgave a certain someone for that sometimes too.....;) (that's a differnet issue though)
I was talking about Nasri.
Ah come on so he got offered a contract last summer, so what?
We'd just had another disappointing season, why exactly should he sign and commit more years...you've just admitted it was more money so if he was all about money surely he would have?
For some reason you're ignoring that point, you expect players to just jump up and sign just because more money is offered...even though a season has ended badly, that's not usually how it works with players who want to win stuff, they want to see you're making changes and signing the right players as well!
I don't see it like you at all, if we offered him more money last summer and that's all he cared about why not sign there and then (he hadn't pulled any trees out at that stage as you've said).
In short I disagree with you about Nasri. People more often than not turn it into a money argument when players wants to leave, sometimes it's true but there's also success to think about...that's why players go to Chelsea, Barca, Man U etc...not just money.
Because he wanted more than was offered. Which I'm sure you'll agree was wrong.
"words are words and often said in the heat of the moment"....be nice if you forgave a certain someone for that sometimes too.....;) (that's a differnet issue though)
There's a certain amount of brainwashing involved in this though for players though, good news is it wears off after while ;)
There's a certain amount of brainwashing involved in this though for players though, good news is it wears off after while ;)
:D
Good job it doesn't work on the rest of us then. Players must be really thick.
Because he wanted more than was offered. Which I'm sure you'll agree was wrong.
Sorry but yeah I disagree, at the time he hadn't excelled and hadn't he been injured for a while too?
I don't see why he wouldn't sign then, I reckon it's because he didn't want to commit another 4-5 years to a project that had so far yielded no results (especially when a manager chose not to spend on quality players).
Sorry but yeah I disagree, at the time he hadn't excelled and hadn't he been injured for a while too?
I don't see why he wouldn't sign then, I reckon it's because he didn't want to commit another 4-5 years to a project that had so far yielded no results (especially when a manager chose not to spend on quality players).
Fair enough. *hanshakes and agrees to disagree*
Have you ever admitted you're wrong by the way...not matter how silly it sounds? :lol:
You're assuming that he wants the money based on press rumours and nothing more than that.
His words are that he wants to challenge for trophies, and doesn't believe we're doing that or making the right steps to do so. Van Persie made the same noises.
If he was offered such a good contract before the season, which was 'much more than he was worth', why wouldn't he take it if he was all about the money?
Clichy who hardly strikes you as someone being interested in money went to Man Citeh. Why? For the football project.
This is the nub of it all, really.
Logic dictates that Nasri didn't take the contract offered because he thought he had nothing to lose by not doing so. He hadn't shown anything more than glimpses of his potential, but from his point of view if his form improved he would have a far stronger lever against the club with 1 year to go on his contract than with 2 years to go.
If his form didn't improve massively, well as long as he didn't do a Denilson, and go to shit, then the offer would still, in all likelihood be there, and if it wasn't he could have reasonable expectations of moving somewhere else decent.
The evidence suggests that trophies didn't come into it, as he said himself last Summer that he thought AFC was the best team.
What people are sore about is the calculated nature of Nasri's positioning, and the fact that it shows complete indifference towards the club. The same way that Manure fans were upset when Rooney did the same. The difference is that in Rooney's case, he had established far more goodwill previously by the extent of his contribution to his club up to that point.
Sure, you can say that players being calculated and indifferent is all part of the modern game - and fans must live with it. But this line of argument ignores 2 things. First - supporting a club is an emotional investment, and players' behaviour will generally therefore provoke an emotional response. Fans should not be censured for this.
Second, on the surface at least - the level of manipulation that Nasri and his advisers are indulging in, on a very opportunist basis, given that we have had no more than 4 months of real form from him is still a relative rarity in the game. It is not the norn.
Why wouldn't he take it?? Because he wanted more of course! Deary me. That's why he wouldn't sign it!
Clichy? Was on his way out anyway. Plus he was shit for us. And I really couldn't give two hoots about him. And if you wanna twist the tables....then if Wenger was desperate to keep hold of him, why didn't he do what he's doing with Nasri??? Tells you something dunnit??
He wanted more despite, according to you, having done nothing to warrant it? At that point it's unlikely he'd get higher elsewhere, so how was he going to get more with us?
Nasri said a year ago that he wanted to win trophies with us and recently said he wants to be in a team which is challenging for trophies, something that he doesn't think us capable of doing. Same as Clichy, same as Bendtner, same as Denilson, same as Van Persie (who wants major investment). He's not an Arsenal fan, he's not an unknown (even when he came to us) so he owes the club nothing.
If we hadn't stuck through Van Persie through his injury worries he'd probably be doing similar this summer, and both Walcott and him will do the same next if we carry on with the penny pinching. Henry got tired with it 5 years ago and although Nasri hasn't reached his level in the game, he could do if we supplemented his quality with similar.
If we sign players to strengthen the squad and he leaves to go to City (not United), then yes, he's a mercenary. Until then he's done nothing wrong.
Still have no answer about Clichy btw. Boss? Zimm?
Why hasn't Wenger done the same with him as he is with Nasri??
He wanted more despite, according to you, having done nothing to warrant it? At that point it's unlikely he'd get higher elsewhere, so how was he going to get more with us?
Nasri said a year ago that he wanted to win trophies with us and recently said he wants to be in a team which is challenging for trophies, something that he doesn't think us capable of doing. Same as Clichy, same as Bendtner, same as Denilson, same as Van Persie (who wants major investment). He's not an Arsenal fan, he's not an unknown (even when he came to us) so he owes the club nothing.
If we hadn't stuck through Van Persie through his injury worries he'd probably be doing similar this summer, and both Walcott and him will do the same next if we carry on with the penny pinching. Henry got tired with it 5 years ago and although Nasri hasn't reached his level in the game, he could do if we supplemented his quality with similar.
If we sign players to strengthen the squad and he leaves to go to City (not United), then yes, he's a mercenary. Until then he's done nothing wrong.
Have agreed to disagree on this with Zimm. Not going to bother.
Still have no answer about Clichy btw. Boss? Zimm?
Why hasn't Wenger done the same with him as he is with Nasri??
Because Wenger feels Clichy can be easily replaced (with Gibbs), he may not feel Nasri is in the same category.
Also, IMO Wenger is hoping we'll win something this season and that'll persuade Nasri/Cesc to stay, although we're nowhere close to doing so the way he's going.
Because Wenger feels Clichy can be easily replaced (with Gibbs), he may not feel Nasri is in the same category.
Also, IMO Wenger is hoping we'll win something this season and that'll persuade Nasri/Cesc to stay, although we're nowhere close to doing so the way he's going.
Aye, which is why we should sell Nasri now and get the cash on board. Though I like the sentiment of telling City to fuck off regarding our better players.
Shame. Would like to have seen Nasri go and Mata come in. I'd have spunk everywhere if that happened.
He wanted more despite, according to you, having done nothing to warrant it? At that point it's unlikely he'd get higher elsewhere, so how was he going to get more with us? Nasri said a year ago that he wanted to win trophies with us and recently said he wants to be in a team which is challenging for trophies, something that he doesn't think us capable of doing. Same as Clichy, same as Bendtner, same as Denilson, same as Van Persie (who wants major investment). He's not an Arsenal fan, he's not an unknown (even when he came to us) so he owes the club nothing.
If we hadn't stuck through Van Persie through his injury worries he'd probably be doing similar this summer, and both Walcott and him will do the same next if we carry on with the penny pinching. Henry got tired with it 5 years ago and although Nasri hasn't reached his level in the game, he could do if we supplemented his quality with similar.
If we sign players to strengthen the squad and he leaves to go to City (not United), then yes, he's a mercenary. Until then he's done nothing wrong.
See my post above. That also deals with this concept of 'doing wrong'. Want away/manipulating players rarely do anything wrong, in the strict sense of the word. They are operating withing the rules, and are free to approach their affairs as they wish.
There is a massive difference between this concept, and implying that fans are wrong to feel aggrieved when players openly manipulate their club.
Fair enough. *hanshakes and agrees to disagree*
Have you ever admitted you're wrong by the way...not matter how silly it sounds? :lol:
:Adebayor:Of course of course :/Adebayor:
Aye, which is why we should sell Nasri now and get the cash on board. Though I like the sentiment of telling City to fuck off regarding our better players.
Shame. Would like to have seen Nasri go and Mata come in. I'd have spunk everywhere if that happened.
Agreed. I am uncomfortable with this issue of principle. We should not be keeping Nasri and running down his contract to show the world we are a 'big club'. Selling him and getting in another talented player would send out the same message - and the sale would be seen as a good bit of business.
I worry that the seeming determination to keep a want away player who did little to justify the wages he feels he is worth when we needed him to last season is another example of AW being too close to his players, and clinging to an unshakeable belief that this current team will somehow 'come good' when little has happened to justify this belief.
This is the nub of it all, really.
Logic dictates that Nasri didn't take the contract offered because he thought he had nothing to lose by not doing so. He hadn't shown anything more than glimpses of his potential, but from his point of view if his form improved he would have a far stronger lever against the club with 1 year to go on his contract than with 2 years to go.
If his form didn't improve massively, well as long as he didn't do a Denilson, and go to shit, then the offer would still, in all likelihood be there, and if it wasn't he could have reasonable expectations of moving somewhere else decent.
Agreed. Although it's looking at the club more as a job than an 'family' etc (which is what football is to the fans), I don't think there's much wrong with that.
The evidence suggests that trophies didn't come into it, as he said himself last Summer that he thought AFC was the best team.
He may have done so at the time but given our regular collapse happening, he may not believe it to be the case anymore (as VP doesn't either, given his comments).
What people are sore about is the calculated nature of Nasri's positioning, and the fact that it shows complete indifference towards the club. The same way that Manure fans were upset when Rooney did the same. The difference is that in Rooney's case, he had established far more goodwill previously by the extent of his contribution to his club up to that point.
That's assuming the only reason he's leaving is money, which I don't believe to be the case. The difference between what we're apparently offering (90k) and what he apparently wants (110k) is not a lot (roughly a million per year) and he wouldn't make much more at any other club bar City (even though perhaps not, given Clichy's making the same amount at City as he was with us*). He'd also prefer to go to United*, and I doubt Fergie would pay much more than 110k per week for a player that has achieved relatively little.
(* According to press rumours)
Sure, you can say that players being calculated and indifferent is all part of the modern game - and fans must live with it. But this line of argument ignores 2 things. First - supporting a club is an emotional investment, and players' behaviour will generally therefore provoke an emotional response. Fans should not be censured for this.
Second, on the surface at least - the level of manipulation that Nasri and his advisers are indulging in, on a very opportunist basis, given that we have had no more than 4 months of real form from him is still a relative rarity in the game. It is not the norn.
IMO two things matter to players in the game:
a) Money
b) Trophies
Which one is first depends on the player, but generally players will pick a club with a decent chance of trophies and lesser money than one with a lower chance of trophies and more money.
Our wage structure causes problems in the sense that most of our squad is paid similar rates, so our top players (who may be on 80-100k per week) look at the rest of the squad and see the likes of Diaby / Denilson / Bendtner earning not much lower than them and also at others in the Premiership where wages are spread on a 'fairer' basis and who's top players may be getting 1.5/2x what they are.
There's also the point that Manchester City, while in the past may have been an option to players only for the money, now is an option for the chance to win stuff (indeed they won more than us last year and are more likely to do so this). So I don't think you can call players wanting to go there anymore just interested in money, as the case of Clichy shows.
Does the time spent with us show what a player is interested in? Henry left us to go to Barcelona, I don't think you can say that was for the money. Same with Fabregas wanting to go. Just because Nasri hasn't spent as much time with us, it doesn't mean that it's all he's interested in. He may have clued on sooner than the others that it's unlikely we're winning anything anytime soon.
Again, in my opinion the only way we'll know whether or not Nasri was in it for the money or not is if a) we sign 2-3 top class players this season and he still wants to leave or b) we win stuff next season and he still wants to leave.
Both of which look unlikely, to say the least.
Still have no answer about Clichy btw. Boss? Zimm?
Why hasn't Wenger done the same with him as he is with Nasri??
If you mean in letting him run down his contract...then there's two point here for me.
1) Clichy never cost us a big transfer fee so in a sense we weren't losing out outlay
2) His performances as a defender had been disappointing, whilst attackers get away with switching on and off defenders don't get the same luxury as they can cost goals.
Clichy had become unreliable, letting him run down his contract made more sense when his value was never going to be that high, Nasri s younger and has more natural ability and thus is a greater loss.
If you mean in letting him run down his contract...then there's two point here for me.
1) Clichy never cost us a big transfer fee so in a sense we weren't losing out outlay
2) His performances as a defender had been disappointing, whilst attackers get away with switching on and off defenders don't get the same luxury as they can cost goals.
Clichy had become unreliable, letting him run down his contract made more sense when his value was never going to be that high, Nasri s younger and has more natural ability and thus is a greater loss.
I didn't mean "letting him run down his contract" as it's clear Wenger has no say if a payer doesn't want to sign. He can't make him sign.
I meant in the context that he's willing to keep Nasri regardless, but willing to sell Clichy. I was responding to the assertion by TEG that if it wasn't all about money, then why did clichy go.
Either way, your answer 2) is what I believe. Whether Clichy had lost faith in the team or not, I think he was on his way anyway.
Champagne Charlie
14-07-2011, 12:10 PM
Whether or not Nasri wants to go for the money or to better his chances at winning trophies is obviously debateable, and its probably a mix of the two, but to be perfectly honest both of these excuses piss me off!
I hate this attitude of footballers who seem to think that it's everyone else's fault and they're better/bigger than the club.
He was great for us last season when things were going well, but as soon as things got tough he's nowhere to be seen. Don't get me wrong, I too lay the blame for the end of season collaspe mainly on the manager, but did Arsene tell Nasri to look utterly disinterested in the Carling Cup final? Did Arsene tell Nasri to bottle it when clean through on goal at 1-1 against Bolton?
Nasri was just as guilty as the rest of them for bottling it towards the end of the season, if not more guilty due to his ability.
But instead of holding his hands up and admitting his own failings and working hard for the team, he'd rather just jump ship for an easier chance of winning where he doesn't have to put too much effort in. His attitude on the pitch since March has been one of "sod this, I'll just leave in the summer". Work-shy little twat!!
(Anyway, I'd better get back to work...)
Agreed. Although it's looking at the club more as a job than an 'family' etc (which is what football is to the fans), I don't think there's much wrong with that.
He may have done so at the time but given our regular collapse happening, he may not believe it to be the case anymore (as VP doesn't either, given his comments).
That's assuming the only reason he's leaving is money, which I don't believe to be the case. The difference between what we're apparently offering (90k) and what he apparently wants (110k) is not a lot (roughly a million per year) and he wouldn't make much more at any other club bar City (even though perhaps not, given Clichy's making the same amount at City as he was with us*). He'd also prefer to go to United*, and I doubt Fergie would pay much more than 110k per week for a player that has achieved relatively little.
(* According to press rumours)
IMO two things matter to players in the game:
a) Money
b) Trophies
Which one is first depends on the player, but generally players will pick a club with a decent chance of trophies and lesser money than one with a lower chance of trophies and more money.
Our wage structure causes problems in the sense that most of our squad is paid similar rates, so our top players (who may be on 80-100k per week) look at the rest of the squad and see the likes of Diaby / Denilson / Bendtner earning not much lower than them and also at others in the Premiership where wages are spread on a 'fairer' basis and who's top players may be getting 1.5/2x what they are.
There's also the point that Manchester City, while in the past may have been an option to players only for the money, now is an option for the chance to win stuff (indeed they won more than us last year and are more likely to do so this). So I don't think you can call players wanting to go there anymore just interested in money, as the case of Clichy shows.
Does the time spent with us show what a player is interested in? Henry left us to go to Barcelona, I don't think you can say that was for the money. Same with Fabregas wanting to go. Just because Nasri hasn't spent as much time with us, it doesn't mean that it's all he's interested in. He may have clued on sooner than the others that it's unlikely we're winning anything anytime soon.
Again, in my opinion the only way we'll know whether or not Nasri was in it for the money or not is if a) we sign 2-3 top class players this season and he still wants to leave or b) we win stuff next season and he still wants to leave.
Both of which look unlikely, to say the least.
I think that in your defence of Nasri you hit upon an important issue. I accept that for most players, glory is a factor as well as money, although the evidence suggests that the sticking point that AFC had when they went into this was that Nasri wanted parity with Cesc to stay at the club - so I do wonder how much of a 'convenient' feel there is about the trophy factor being raised now. (IIRC Rooney's statements about wanting evidence that the club will match his ambitions halted abruptly when he had levered the club into his massive pay rise, and ain't it funny how in these situations its always Citeh mentioned as a possible destination).
But if you are criticising Gooners' reactions to the situation, it is only fair to look at the other side to the question. If a player is ambitious, then what have they done to achieve that ambition with their own club? In Nasr's case precious little. And this is a real problem at AFC. We can and have criticised AW for last season's collapse, but the players have to take their share of the blame too.
Its comes as no surprise whatsoever that football fans feel antipathy to players whose attitude is that they will not stay unless players are brought in to achieve glory for them. There is a need for the players themselves - particularly the best/most senior ones to take responsibility.
Power n Glory
14-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Wrong.
I would love Nasri to stay.
Cesc can go.
It's about the football for me. As I've said loads of times. Cesc slows us down and is too central.
Nasri is a real talent, and I would love him to stay and sign a new deal....but if he's gonna be a cunt about it, I'd rather we got shot, just like we did with Ade.
Furthermore, this is about the point Zimm made about "us" or "wenger" causing the problem, which is quite frankly bullshit, as I've quite clearly stated.
How can guy that is able to create a chance in a split second slow down our play? You saw the games where we played without Cesc, there was no difference, we created less chances in fact.
As for the Nasri and money thing...you'll be saying the same thing when RVP refuses to sign a new deal. Both RVP and Theo should be offered new contracts now, but if they refuse to sign, would you say it's because they want more money?
Something is wrong within the camp and people seem to think it's just indivdual cases, when there is more to it.
How can guy that is able to create a chance in a split second slow down our play? You saw the games where we played without Cesc, there was no difference, we created less chances in fact.
As for the Nasri and money thing...you'll be saying the same thing when RVP refuses to sign a new deal. Both RVP and Theo should be offered new contracts now, but if they refuse to sign, would you say it's because they want more money?
Something is wrong within the camp and people seem to think it's just indivdual cases, when there is more to it.
You misunderstand me. Cesc is the ONLY player capable of playing that system, hence we miss him when he's not there. Get rid and start playing more direct, so that missing him through injury is nowhere near the damage it causes right now.
Tipsychubbs
14-07-2011, 02:39 PM
Agreed. I am uncomfortable with this issue of principle. We should not be keeping Nasri and running down his contract to show the world we are a 'big club'. Selling him and getting in another talented player would send out the same message - and the sale would be seen as a good bit of business.
I agree, we should look at the Torres situation. Torres, out, Suarez and Caroll in. Good business, and shows that no player is bigger than the club.
selassie
14-07-2011, 02:54 PM
I agree, we should look at the Torres situation. Torres, out, Suarez and Caroll in. Good business, and shows that no player is bigger than the club.
Agreed, it makes no sense to lose a 20million player for nothing, sure we shouldn't be offering our assets to our rivals but in the case of the Nasri situation if he won't sign then we have to sell him now and replace him with quality.
Nasri has completely got us by the balls and irrespective of if we win anything what's going to stop him signing a pre-contract in January with any top club that can easily double or either triple his wages?
Marc Overmars
14-07-2011, 05:43 PM
Been out of the loop for the past week, what's the deal with Nasri then? I heard we're keeping him in hope that he signs a new deal? Very risky and judging by the type of character he has shown himself up to be, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he fucked off on a bosman. He's already looked at other clubs, so what the hell makes Wenger think it will be different in January when he can talk to anyone he wants? I'm not comfortable with the situation at all tbh, sell him now or get him to sign a new deal, talk is cheap.
This is a big gamble.
Been out of the loop for the past week, what's the deal with Nasri then? I heard we're keeping him in hope that he signs a new deal? Very risky and judging by the type of character he has shown himself up to be, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he fucked off on a bosman. He's already looked at other clubs, so what the hell makes Wenger think it will be different in January when he can talk to anyone he wants? I'm not comfortable with the situation at all tbh, sell him now or get him to sign a new deal, talk is cheap.
This is a big gamble.
I am really, really, hoping that this is some kind of strategy to drive his transfer fee up. Because keeping him will cost us £20M that we don't have, and in resturn we'll get a disillusioned player who doesn't want to play for us. Madness.
nasri will be fine and will perform at least to the level of last year
nasri will be fine and will perform at least to the level of last year
I have no doubts that he'll perform to his post February level.
he was hardly alone in that regard
Darth Vela
15-07-2011, 10:57 AM
Look at it this way, the last time someone was doing this, he played like a mentalist (the good kind) for most of the season so even if he doesn't stay we'll probably get some decent performances. I'm pretty sure he's staying as something as a stop-gap, if he signs a new contract then great but until then we have Ramsey/Wilshere developing in the middle and guys who can do his job outwide coming into the squad so even if he doesn't stick around he keeps us going while we have something of a mini transition (the kind where you move on rather than the staying in 4th kind) losing Cesc.
It's not perfect but it's probably the best use we can get out of him if people want to win something next season.
Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
15-07-2011, 11:04 AM
In my view Fabregas staying would be nothing short of an unmitigated disaster, he's clearly not committed to us and for the captain of the side to not be committed to us is perfectly absurd, I think the best thing to do would be to sell him if Barcelona offer us 35 million and then we can spend money strengthening in vital areas if the board are reluctant to spend cash as things stand.
Marc Overmars
15-07-2011, 11:29 AM
Look at it this way, the last time someone was doing this, he played like a mentalist (the good kind) for most of the season so even if he doesn't stay we'll probably get some decent performances. I'm pretty sure he's staying as something as a stop-gap, if he signs a new contract then great but until then we have Ramsey/Wilshere developing in the middle and guys who can do his job outwide coming into the squad so even if he doesn't stick around he keeps us going while we have something of a mini transition (the kind where you move on rather than the staying in 4th kind) losing Cesc.
It's not perfect but it's probably the best use we can get out of him if people want to win something next season.
Would you be comfortable with the club taking a 20m hit though? It would be unforgivable IMO if Nasri was allowed to run his contract down and leave on a free. Sell him or sign him up now, he's too big of an asset.
it's only £20mill because of media talk surrounding bids that have never even taken place so far
He's worth at least that going by bids of likewise players and his talent.
Put him on the market today and you'd get 20M for him easily.
selassie
15-07-2011, 12:57 PM
it's only £20mill because of media talk surrounding bids that have never even taken place so far
He's a 20mill player comfortably, definitely in the current market. It makes a complete mockery of Arsene's stance on player valuations and living within our means etc when he's happy to lose a 20million player for nothing, complete hypocrisy.
a couple weeks ago on here it was 10-15 mill, now the papers have elevated the price, it's 20?
he can't win really.
criticised for being greedy and only caring about money or criticised for holding onto a player and trying not to give in to rivals and breaking up the team in one summer.
selassie
15-07-2011, 01:45 PM
a couple weeks ago on here it was 10-15 mill, now the papers have elevated the price, it's 20?
he can't win really.
criticised for being greedy and only caring about money or criticised for holding onto a player and trying not to give in to rivals and breaking up the team in one summer.
If I'm honest I don't really see the point in keeping a player that a) doesn't seem to want to be here and b) won't sign a new contract.
Losing Nasri to a rival is not ideal, but if we lose him we might as well lose him for money that can be spent improving all areas of the squad. I don't see the logic in keeping hold of Nasri TBH.
seriously, when i first came on here a little while ago, there were wails of derision about potentially selling to a rival. as soon as the evaluation of 20 mill has reared it's head, that has changed.
he will put in the performances during the season, i see no reason to suggest he will act in an unproffesional manner. if we let him go for free then fine, i'd much rather that then sell him to a rival.
he's not a clichy, toure or ade, he has far more potential than that and i dont want to see that realised right under our nose.
Marc Overmars
15-07-2011, 02:10 PM
a couple weeks ago on here it was 10-15 mill, now the papers have elevated the price, it's 20?
he can't win really.
criticised for being greedy and only caring about money or criticised for holding onto a player and trying not to give in to rivals and breaking up the team in one summer.
Whatever his value is, he's obviously a very valuable asset.
I gurantee the venom directed towards Wenger now is nothing compared to what could come his way if Nasri leaves on a bosman next summer.
We're stingy enough as it is in the transfer market, so to miss out on <insert amount> for a key player like Nasri would be ridiculous. Lets not forget one of our rivals would be getting an absolute steal as well.
Marc Overmars
15-07-2011, 02:12 PM
if we let him go for free then fine, i'd much rather that then sell him to a rival.
You realise he would probably go to them anyway?
On a free.
Becoming one of the bargains of the decade.
Making us a laughing stock.
everything seems to be a 'laughing stock' on here. apparently a couple weeks back we'd were a laughing stock for having to sell him now.
if our rivals have bought their creative players in the middle, then why would he want to go somewhere and risk either not being first choice or not getting the position he wants?
i not sure how our buying prudence relates to how much we sell for. surely that is one of wengers best assets, the amount he generates from player sales.
people want nasri sold but are you really confident you would see that money on the table ready to spend? regardless of the venom
Marc Overmars
15-07-2011, 02:20 PM
people want nasri sold but are you really confident you would see that money on the table ready to spend? regardless of the venom
I believe so because Nasri is a key player who wouldn't go without being replaced.
Darth Vela
15-07-2011, 02:25 PM
Would you be comfortable with the club taking a 20m hit though? It would be unforgivable IMO if Nasri was allowed to run his contract down and leave on a free. Sell him or sign him up now, he's too big of an asset.
Yeah, I would.
For all the reasons I initially outlined, I think Nasri staying might be more important than 20m in the bank, losing him and Cesc in one summer is too much for this team, plus in all honesty if we get 30m+ for Cesc then I'm not sure the extra 20m would make much difference to our spending this summer. We need him now, rather than the 20m and if he still doesn't want to stay next season, screw it.
Marc Overmars
15-07-2011, 02:28 PM
Fair enough. :good:
Yeah, I would.
For all the reasons I initially outlined, I think Nasri staying might be more important than 20m in the bank, losing him and Cesc in one summer is too much for this team, plus in all honesty if we get 30m+ for Cesc then I'm not sure the extra 20m would make much difference to our spending this summer. We need him now, rather than the 20m and if he still doesn't want to stay next season, screw it.
yeah thats a good summary
selassie
15-07-2011, 07:21 PM
seriously, when i first came on here a little while ago, there were wails of derision about potentially selling to a rival. as soon as the evaluation of 20 mill has reared it's head, that has changed.
he will put in the performances during the season, i see no reason to suggest he will act in an unproffesional manner. if we let him go for free then fine, i'd much rather that then sell him to a rival.
he's not a clichy, toure or ade, he has far more potential than that and i dont want to see that realised right under our nose.
Don't get me wrong I would hate to lose him to a rival regardless of the fee. The reality of the situation now is that if he doesn't sign very soon he'll most likely sign for someone else come January.
If he's signed a pre-contract for someone else in January what makes you think he's going to contribute to our season for the final 4 or 5 months? Whilst I accept he may not put in unprofessional performances we should accept that he may not have any desire to fight for the team.
What makes me feel uncomfortable about the Nasri & Fabregas situation is that Arsene is essentially hedging his bets and building his team around 2 wantaway players. That's a massive gamble IMHO.
Mr. Lahey
15-07-2011, 09:32 PM
A part of me is thinking that Wenger has told Nasri to put in another brilliant performance for the first half of the season and he will get his pay raise. If not Wenger will let him walk. If Nasri really wanted to leave I wouldnt think he would have gone to Asia. Just my thoughts with the way this is playing out.
Don't get me wrong I would hate to lose him to a rival regardless of the fee. The reality of the situation now is that if he doesn't sign very soon he'll most likely sign for someone else come January.
If he's signed a pre-contract for someone else in January what makes you think he's going to contribute to our season for the final 4 or 5 months? Whilst I accept he may not put in unprofessional performances we should accept that he may not have any desire to fight for the team.
What makes me feel uncomfortable about the Nasri & Fabregas situation is that Arsene is essentially hedging his bets and building his team around 2 wantaway players. That's a massive gamble IMHO.
:gp:
Master Splinter
16-07-2011, 09:06 AM
Manchester City boss Roberto Mancini has revealed they are hoping to secure a double swoop for Sergio Aguero and Samir Nasri by the end of the month.
Mancini has indentified Atletico Madrid ace Aguero as an ideal replacement for unsettled star Carlos Tevez and he is also keen on luring Nasri away from Arsenal.
Aguero is looking for a new club after revealing his intention to leave Atletico this summer with the player planning to make a decision on his future after the Copa America.
The 23-year-old has admitted he would be happy to join another Spanish club or move to England with Real Madrid also in the race for his signature.
Mancini is an admirer of Aguero and he believes the Argentine would be a success in the City team if they land him.
"At the moment I am waiting because if we lose Carlos, Aguero is a player that can play for Manchester City because he is young, because he is a good player like Carlos, he can score a lot of goals and can play with Mario (Balotelli), with Edin (Dzeko)," Mancini told Sky Sports News.
Asked if City were likely to make a bid for Aguero, Mancini said: "It is probably yes. I think in this moment we only have to wait."
Nasri is also a top target for Mancini with the Frenchman stalling over a new contract at Arsenal.
The former Marseille man is entering the final year of his contract at Arsenal and although Arsene Wenger claims the midfielder will stay, Mancini hopes he can bring him to Manchester.
"Samir is under contract with Arsenal. Also for Samir it depends on many things," added Mancini.
Asked if an offer has been made for Nasri, Mancini continued: "I don't know in this moment, I don't know the situation but for Nasri it is difficult.
"I hope that we can buy because we need other players and I hope that this player can arrive before the end of the month."
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_7040998,00.html
Mancini is waiting for his dad to give him money for the candy store.
Marc Overmars
16-07-2011, 10:15 AM
That would be pretty digusting if they got Aguero and Nasri.
Power n Glory
16-07-2011, 10:54 AM
A part of me is thinking that Wenger has told Nasri to put in another brilliant performance for the first half of the season and he will get his pay raise. If not Wenger will let him walk. If Nasri really wanted to leave I wouldnt think he would have gone to Asia. Just my thoughts with the way this is playing out.
That makes no sense to me. We shouldn't be in this position. None of this makes sense.
We have some incompetent people running this club. If it's about money, then give it to him. It makes no sense to let it go this far if he wants a wage increase. We'll lose millions for the sake of saving a few thousands. It's mental.
If it's not about money and about sporting ambition, then sign a few damn players so he and the rest of the team are happy!
If we can't afford the players, then raise the cash by selling off the wantaway players and that includes Cesc and Nasri, just make sure you buy some quality as their replacements.
That's three logical options. Letting him walk on a free is going to cost us more come next season because not only will we have to buy his replacement, we'll have more unhappy players threatening to not sign their contract and we'll go through this crap again. What we're doing now is short sighted and not a long term strategy. If we fail to reach the Champs league next season, we're in serious trouble because we won't be able to attract players from abroad and I'm pretty sure we'll have players looking for the exit here as well.
These assholes need to wake up. Fix the leak now or we're going to have a flood of problems next season. The team can't cope with wantaway players and off field distractions all year.
Penguin
16-07-2011, 01:09 PM
If it's not about money and about sporting ambition, then sign a few damn players so he and the rest of the team are happy!
If we can't afford the players, then raise the cash by selling off the wantaway players and that includes Cesc and Nasri, just make sure you buy some quality as their replacements.
I don't think the board understands. Wenger probably realises the danger but he's too stubborn to 'give in' to the demands of the players and the fans. Seriously, if there was ever a time that this squad needed investment it is now. Morale is at an all time low and we are travelling across the spiral in the wrong direction.
The fat russian (Usmanov not Arshavin :lol:) was right. Our board members are more than happy to pocket huge salaries every year but refuse to make any investment into the team. They deserve to be hit in the wallet but unfortunately they might bring this club down with them.
Power n Glory
16-07-2011, 01:40 PM
If Wenger can decide to keep Nasri and risk losing him on a free and lose out on millions, then he should be able to convince the board to pay out a few thousands for a new contract.
Mr. Lahey
16-07-2011, 02:34 PM
That makes no sense to me. We shouldn't be in this position. None of this makes sense.
We have some incompetent people running this club. If it's about money, then give it to him. It makes no sense to let it go this far if he wants a wage increase. We'll lose millions for the sake of saving a few thousands. It's mental.
If it's not about money and about sporting ambition, then sign a few damn players so he and the rest of the team are happy!
If we can't afford the players, then raise the cash by selling off the wantaway players and that includes Cesc and Nasri, just make sure you buy some quality as their replacements.
That's three logical options. Letting him walk on a free is going to cost us more come next season because not only will we have to buy his replacement, we'll have more unhappy players threatening to not sign their contract and we'll go through this crap again. What we're doing now is short sighted and not a long term strategy. If we fail to reach the Champs league next season, we're in serious trouble because we won't be able to attract players from abroad and I'm pretty sure we'll have players looking for the exit here as well.
These assholes need to wake up. Fix the leak now or we're going to have a flood of problems next season. The team can't cope with wantaway players and off field distractions all year.
Im with you mate, just trying to make any sense of all this. If Wenger lets him go on a free then he should be sacked (if he shouldnt have already been by now) the day Nasri leaves. Is Wenger really stupid enough to let him leave?? I know he's done some dumb shit previously but this would take the cake!
I don't think the board understands. Wenger probably realises the danger but he's too stubborn to 'give in' to the demands of the players and the fans. Seriously, if there was ever a time that this squad needed investment it is now. Morale is at an all time low and we are travelling across the spiral in the wrong direction.
The fat russian (Usmanov not Arshavin :lol:) was right. Our board members are more than happy to pocket huge salaries every year but refuse to make any investment into the team. They deserve to be hit in the wallet but unfortunately they might bring this club down with them.
I'm with you mostly. But in terms of bringing the club down? I think we need a bit of perspective here. Morale is at a very low point, but we're hardly going to be relegated, are we - even if all the want away players go, and we buy noone else.
Penguin
18-07-2011, 07:39 AM
If Wenger can decide to keep Nasri and risk losing him on a free and lose out on millions, then he should be able to convince the board to pay out a few thousands for a new contract.
It can't be just over wages, I think he wants to see some signings and ambition from the club too. You need to spend money to make money, or to win trophies. If I put myself in the players' shoes I can't really blame them for wanting out right now.
I'm with you mostly. But in terms of bringing the club down? I think we need a bit of perspective here. Morale is at a very low point, but we're hardly going to be relegated, are we - even if all the want away players go, and we buy noone else.
I know mate, I'm just exagerrating a bit ;)
This is all about hedging our bets IMO.
I still think it's entirely plausible that either one of Cesc or Nasri, or indeed both, are on their way out of the club this summer. Therefore, on that basis, I think AW is covering it all off just in case.
If Cesc goes, he'll keep Nasri, and possibly bring in a replacement for Cesc;
If Nasri goes, he'll keep Cesc under lock and key.
Not sure why we can't be proactive rather than reactive.
Not sure why we can't be proactive rather than reactive.
Sell to buy I guess.
Champagne Charlie
18-07-2011, 11:42 AM
If it's about money, then give it to him. It makes no sense to let it go this far if he wants a wage increase. We'll lose millions for the sake of saving a few thousands. It's mental.
The trouble is that buckling to his wage demands could have a whole load of bad ramifications in the future. It sends out a message to the rest of the players that they can run their contract down, demand higher wages and the club/AW will eventually give in through fear of loosing them on a free. You also have the whole "if Nasri's on that much then I want this much" for any player who plays well next year.
And to be honest, if Nasri thinks 3-4 months of top quality performances in the space of 4 years warrants him being the highest paid player at the club, then he can quite frankly fuck right off!
The trouble is that buckling to his wage demands could have a whole load of bad ramifications in the future. It sends out a message to the rest of the players that they can run their contract down, demand higher wages and the club/AW will eventually give in through fear of loosing them on a free. You also have the whole "if Nasri's on that much then I want this much" for any player who plays well next year.
And to be honest, if Nasri thinks 3-4 months of top quality performances in the space of 4 years warrants him being the highest paid player at the club, then he can quite frankly fuck right off!
Top post.
Power n Glory
18-07-2011, 11:52 AM
The trouble is that buckling to his wage demands could have a whole load of bad ramifications in the future. It sends out a message to the rest of the players that they can run their contract down, demand higher wages and the club/AW will eventually give in through fear of loosing them on a free. You also have the whole "if Nasri's on that much then I want this much" for any player who plays well next year.
And to be honest, if Nasri thinks 3-4 months of top quality performances in the space of 4 years warrants him being the highest paid player at the club, then he can quite frankly fuck right off!
We're already sending out the wrong message by letting our star players go every year. Players are looking at the wages their rivals are earning and asking to be paid a similar amount. The system is already crumbling so giving in what make a blind bit of difference.
The trouble is that buckling to his wage demands could have a whole load of bad ramifications in the future. It sends out a message to the rest of the players that they can run their contract down, demand higher wages and the club/AW will eventually give in through fear of loosing them on a free. You also have the whole "if Nasri's on that much then I want this much" for any player who plays well next year.
And to be honest, if Nasri thinks 3-4 months of top quality performances in the space of 4 years warrants him being the highest paid player at the club, then he can quite frankly fuck right off!
Whilst that may be true, what do other clubs do?
Rooney got a massive payrise does that mean every other Man U player will be doing the same as him?
selassie
18-07-2011, 12:00 PM
Sell to buy I guess.
Do you really believe this though?
I mean do we really need to sell to buy?
selassie
18-07-2011, 12:05 PM
The trouble is that buckling to his wage demands could have a whole load of bad ramifications in the future. It sends out a message to the rest of the players that they can run their contract down, demand higher wages and the club/AW will eventually give in through fear of loosing them on a free. You also have the whole "if Nasri's on that much then I want this much" for any player who plays well next year.
And to be honest, if Nasri thinks 3-4 months of top quality performances in the space of 4 years warrants him being the highest paid player at the club, then he can quite frankly fuck right off!
No this will only create a problem if we allow our players to run down their contracts. For whatever reason we've left ourselves short with Nasri...more often than not we tie our players down to long contracts with healthy wages, that's why we can't shift dross like Bendy, Denilson & Eboue because nobody else would pay them anything near to the wages we pay them.
We can't have it both ways, we either pay our stars top wages or risk losing them. Honestly...we're in no position to dictate wages to our star performers when we don't win anything or invest much money in the team.
Do you really believe this though?
I mean do we really need to sell to buy?
Depends on how much we'd need to spend to replace either of them I guess. For a top quality replacement we're looking at 15-25mil. I don't think we have that kind of disposable cash should Barca not come in with the required amount for Cesc.
If we sold Nasri, then we'd have circa 20mil, but I think Wenger probably assumes that losing both is worst case senario, and only then would he have to push the boat out.
If one of them stays, then I would put money on there being a 10-15 mil replacement in to ease in. But until we know for definite, we're holding fire by the looks of things.
Champagne Charlie
19-07-2011, 07:21 AM
Whilst that may be true, what do other clubs do?
Rooney got a massive payrise does that mean every other Man U player will be doing the same as him?
The thing with Rooney is he's proven his quality season after season for Man U and has been a key player in league and champions league winning teams. Nasri hasn't even come close to that level or that consistancy so I'm not sure the comparison works. For example, if Berbatov demanded he be the highest paid player at Man U after half a season of good form and half a season of doing fuck all, what do you think the likes of Rooney and Ferdinand would be doing? I'm pretty sure they'd be demanding another pay rise too.
Champagne Charlie
19-07-2011, 07:28 AM
We're already sending out the wrong message by letting our star players go every year. Players are looking at the wages their rivals are earning and asking to be paid a similar amount. The system is already crumbling so giving in what make a blind bit of difference.
Yeah, a lot players will look at their rivals and want that much money. But do you really think we're in a position to be offering a load of our players £150k a week? We simply can't afford to keep up with the likes of Chelsea and City when it comes to wages, just the same as we can't keep up with the transfer fees.
Champagne Charlie
19-07-2011, 07:39 AM
No this will only create a problem if we allow our players to run down their contracts. For whatever reason we've left ourselves short with Nasri...more often than not we tie our players down to long contracts with healthy wages, that's why we can't shift dross like Bendy, Denilson & Eboue because nobody else would pay them anything near to the wages we pay them.
We can't have it both ways, we either pay our stars top wages or risk losing them. Honestly...we're in no position to dictate wages to our star performers when we don't win anything or invest much money in the team.
But how can you stop a player from running down a contract? You can't force them to sign. The only other option is to sell them, but then we'll be seen as a selling club and accused of never being able to hold on to our top players. I just think it's a very slippery slope to let the players dictate what wages they deserve.
Although I do agree that there is a fundamental problem with us paying the young, unproven players way too high wages based on "potential". It does make it increasingly hard to get them off your books. But then, if we do buckle to Nasri's wage demands and for the next two years he performs like he did in the second half of last season, then what's the biggest problem; Bendtner being shit on £50k or Nasri being shit on £100k?
milla
19-07-2011, 08:10 AM
But how can you stop a player from running down a contract? You can't force them to sign. The only other option is to sell them, but then we'll be seen as a selling club and accused of never being able to hold on to our top players. I just think it's a very slippery slope to let the players dictate what wages they deserve.
Although I do agree that there is a fundamental problem with us paying the young, unproven players way too high wages based on "potential". It does make it increasingly hard to get them off your books. But then, if we do buckle to Nasri's wage demands and for the next two years he performs like he did in the second half of last season, then what's the biggest problem; Bendtner being shit on £50k or Nasri being shit on £100k?
Bendtner and Nasri are anything but shite footballers, they are quality players. The problem is the old man at the helm, he is almighty shite though. :coffee:
Toronto Gooner
20-07-2011, 01:28 AM
Whilst that may be true, what do other clubs do?
Rooney got a massive payrise does that mean every other Man U player will be doing the same as him?
Unlike Nasri, Rooney has actually put in more than 4 months of good and impressive performances.
Japan Shaking All Over
20-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Yeah, a lot players will look at their rivals and want that much money. But do you really think we're in a position to be offering a load of our players £150k a week? We simply can't afford to keep up with the likes of Chelsea and City when it comes to wages, just the same as we can't keep up with the transfer fees.
I agree that we cant keep up financially with the likes of Citeh or Chelsea so we have to come up with another way to keep or attract top players
there are always going to be players who are prepared to forgo regular football for a fat pay check but I believe that the majority are looking to play and moreover win
in this area we fall short too
it can be argued that Utd although to a lesser extent than us would lose out in a bidding war with Citeh but their advantage is they are proven winners with a manager who knows his arse from his elbow, can ring in changes and tinker with systems to get a job done, winning ugly is something Utd can do
we will not ayyract anyone of worth of we contonue to keep stubbornly to a fsiled plan
Wenger says everyone is waiting and its a game of poker, well lay the first catd motherf. . .er
buy rhe defender we most obviously need, by addressing a provlem that even my Gran can see, we might convince a few more players to join and not just the 15 year old new Jan Molby who joins cos he sees us as a
stepping stone to greater things
I am not calling fpr Wenger to leave but I am asking for him to pull his head out his arse, man even the smell of rosrs can sickening if exposed to it as long as AW has been
selassie
20-07-2011, 12:37 PM
But how can you stop a player from running down a contract? You can't force them to sign. The only other option is to sell them, but then we'll be seen as a selling club and accused of never being able to hold on to our top players. I just think it's a very slippery slope to let the players dictate what wages they deserve.
Although I do agree that there is a fundamental problem with us paying the young, unproven players way too high wages based on "potential". It does make it increasingly hard to get them off your books. But then, if we do buckle to Nasri's wage demands and for the next two years he performs like he did in the second half of last season, then what's the biggest problem; Bendtner being shit on £50k or Nasri being shit on £100k?
You can't force a player to do anything but success breeds loyalty. The vicious circle we're in is IMHO mainly down to a lack of ambition. It's not like our players are leaving us and moving to inferior teams. They are seeking a move for sporting & financial reasons.
We as a club need to show more ambition in the Market, we can't compete with Citeh, Chelsea & Man U but we should most definitely be in a position where we can attract top quality & emerging players from our lesser rivals.
That's the long and short of it for me.
Olivier's xmas twist
20-07-2011, 03:24 PM
Unlike Nasri, Rooney has actually put in more than 4 months of good and impressive performances.
This..
Just because Nasri is top class should not mean he should get away with things. He seems to be no diffrent to flamini tbh
dazthegooner
20-07-2011, 03:29 PM
And Flamini has hardly set the world on fire since he left :)
Olivier's xmas twist
20-07-2011, 04:18 PM
You can't force a player to do anything but success breeds loyalty. The vicious circle we're in is IMHO mainly down to a lack of ambition. It's not like our players are leaving us and moving to inferior teams. They are seeking a move for sporting & financial reasons.
We as a club need to show more ambition in the Market, we can't compete with Citeh, Chelsea & Man U but we should most definitely be in a position where we can attract top quality & emerging players from our lesser rivals.
That's the long and short of it for me.
:gp:
Can't be all down to AW the board needs to show it wants to win things. The Players that want to leave have want the board to show them they believe in them or they will go.
Olivier's xmas twist
20-07-2011, 04:18 PM
And Flamini has hardly set the world on fire since he left :)
Who really has once they have left us.
Master Splinter
20-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Who really has once they have left us.
Bentley :bow:
Who really has once they have left us.
Cuntley Hole
Henry
Think that's about it.
dazthegooner
20-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Cuntley Hole
Henry
Think that's about it.
Well tbf Barca won the champions league inspite of him rather than because of him a bit part player for them!
Marc Overmars
20-07-2011, 04:49 PM
Ah yes, the old players leaving us don't do well notion.
Well, we don't fare too greatly after they leave as well.
Olivier's xmas twist
20-07-2011, 04:56 PM
Ah yes, the old players leaving us don't do well notion.
Well, we don't fare too greatly after they leave as well.
Well these days its hard to do worse when they leave 10 years ago it would be diffrent
The Realist
20-07-2011, 05:23 PM
Cuntley Hole
Henry
Think that's about it.
Anelka??
Mr. Lahey
20-07-2011, 05:55 PM
Unlike Nasri, Rooney has actually put in more than 4 months of good and impressive performances.
Nonsense, if he only had 4 good months with us than he wouldnt have been offered an extension before last season. He has been inconsistent at times but those having a dig about 4 months of playing well are only doing so because the player wants to leave the club to go elsewhere.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did. This is not an individual problem its a Managment issue. WEnger is a poor with player management. He cannot keep his players focused and he lets them get away with the same shite over and over again. But some fans are failing to acknowlege this and would rather point the finger at individual players rather than get to the real source of the problem.
Nasri has even said himself that its about trophies, not money. Most of the BS being spouted is due to those people buying into the inaccurate media speculation. But again people want to have a go at him because he wants to leave to a club with greater sporting ambition. Cesc is getting the same treatment from the fans as well for wanting to go, next will be RVP when he doesnt want to commit his future then it will be Theo. TH14 and Freddie even wanted to see more ambition from the club and even they were singled out way back when for saying so.
Get rid of the manager and I truly believe you will see happier players, a change in effort and a change in the mental focus we need. Its all there to see cleary whats going on but I think some fans cannot come to terms that maybe Wenger (or the board) have failed in what they set out to do.
Cuntley Hole
Henry
Think that's about it.
What about Vieira, 4 Italian titles, 2 Italian cups, 1 CL, 1 FA Cup and a world cup final.
Not too bad.
Ah yes, the old players leaving us don't do well notion.
Well, we don't fare too greatly after they leave as well.
There's been some classics tbh:
The "Wenger smokescreen"
The "we make stars we don't buy them"
The "if Wenger is after them everyone else buys them" scenario
The "we've got no money" scenario
The "world is against us" scenario.
All used to explain Wenger's, weird and wonderful ways in the last 6 years.
Master Splinter
20-07-2011, 06:16 PM
Vieira's Italian trophies are tainted by the fact Juve were relegated, AC Milan were penalised and Inter won by default.
But with Chelsea/Citeh etc. buying their way to glory, I suppose there's no honour in football anyway.
Vieira's Italian trophies are tainted by the fact Juve were relegated, AC Milan were penalised and Inter won by default.
But with Chelsea/Citeh etc. buying their way to glory, I suppose there's no honour in football anyway.
That was just one title though, the 1st one.
Master Splinter
20-07-2011, 06:20 PM
That was just one title though, the 1st one.
Yes, but the big clubs were not on a level to challenge Inter for years after that.
And he wasn't exactly a big part of the CL triumph, he was already at City.
Yes, but the big clubs were not on a level to challenge Inter for years after that.
And he wasn't exactly a big part of the CL triumph, he was already at City.
True but he did have success when he left, he was still quite a player when France made it to the final...seem to have rolled back the years in that campaign.
milla
20-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Nonsense, if he only had 4 good months with us than he wouldnt have been offered an extension before last season. He has been inconsistent at times but those having a dig about 4 months of playing well are only doing so because the player wants to leave the club to go elsewhere.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did. This is not an individual problem its a Managment issue. WEnger is a poor with player management. He cannot keep his players focused and he lets them get away with the same shite over and over again. But some fans are failing to acknowlege this and would rather point the finger at individual players rather than get to the real source of the problem.
Nasri has even said himself that its about trophies, not money. Most of the BS being spouted is due to those people buying into the inaccurate media speculation. But again people want to have a go at him because he wants to leave to a club with greater sporting ambition. Cesc is getting the same treatment from the fans as well for wanting to go, next will be RVP when he doesnt want to commit his future then it will be Theo. TH14 and Freddie even wanted to see more ambition from the club and even they were singled out way back when for saying so.
Get rid of the manager and I truly believe you will see happier players, a change in effort and a change in the mental focus we need. Its all there to see cleary whats going on but I think some fans cannot come to terms that maybe Wenger (or the board) have failed in what they set out to do.
Mr Lahey :bow:
Xhaka Can’t
20-07-2011, 07:07 PM
Nonsense, if he only had 4 good months with us than he wouldnt have been offered an extension before last season. He has been inconsistent at times but those having a dig about 4 months of playing well are only doing so because the player wants to leave the club to go elsewhere.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did. This is not an individual problem its a Managment issue. WEnger is a poor with player management. He cannot keep his players focused and he lets them get away with the same shite over and over again. But some fans are failing to acknowlege this and would rather point the finger at individual players rather than get to the real source of the problem.
Nasri has even said himself that its about trophies, not money. Most of the BS being spouted is due to those people buying into the inaccurate media speculation. But again people want to have a go at him because he wants to leave to a club with greater sporting ambition. Cesc is getting the same treatment from the fans as well for wanting to go, next will be RVP when he doesnt want to commit his future then it will be Theo. TH14 and Freddie even wanted to see more ambition from the club and even they were singled out way back when for saying so.
Get rid of the manager and I truly believe you will see happier players, a change in effort and a change in the mental focus we need. Its all there to see cleary whats going on but I think some fans cannot come to terms that maybe Wenger (or the board) have failed in what they set out to do.
Hey Lahey, haven't you got some offs to fuck?
Good post btw.
Mr. Lahey
20-07-2011, 08:27 PM
Hey Lahey, haven't you got some offs to fuck?
Good post btw.
Already taken care of bud. I posted that 2 hours ago when I fucked off from work 2 hours early. Time to hit up the LC!
fakeyank
20-07-2011, 10:17 PM
Nonsense, if he only had 4 good months with us than he wouldnt have been offered an extension before last season. He has been inconsistent at times but those having a dig about 4 months of playing well are only doing so because the player wants to leave the club to go elsewhere.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did. This is not an individual problem its a Managment issue. WEnger is a poor with player management. He cannot keep his players focused and he lets them get away with the same shite over and over again. But some fans are failing to acknowlege this and would rather point the finger at individual players rather than get to the real source of the problem.
Nasri has even said himself that its about trophies, not money. Most of the BS being spouted is due to those people buying into the inaccurate media speculation. But again people want to have a go at him because he wants to leave to a club with greater sporting ambition. Cesc is getting the same treatment from the fans as well for wanting to go, next will be RVP when he doesnt want to commit his future then it will be Theo. TH14 and Freddie even wanted to see more ambition from the club and even they were singled out way back when for saying so.
Get rid of the manager and I truly believe you will see happier players, a change in effort and a change in the mental focus we need. Its all there to see cleary whats going on but I think some fans cannot come to terms that maybe Wenger (or the board) have failed in what they set out to do.
I agree that AW is the biggest problem however I disagree about Nasri just being 'inconsistent'. He was brilliant up until new year, january but after that he just fell off the boil. Agreed that he wasnt being completely shit but for a player of his quality, he needed to be dictating games or raising the bar. In fact, I am sure there must be some stat which shows this fact as well. He scored by the bucket loads before new years but after that, may be one or 2 goals! Thats unacceptable... I cant begrudge him for wanting to move for money and trophies. I know he said that its all about trophies but I can bet everything I have that if we offer him 200k a week, he will gladly sign a contract with us.
So yes, it is AW who is at fault for our demise and our current state however some of these players should be taking equal blame for last seasons capitulation.. only player who can be exempt is Jack Wilshere. Even in games where he wasnt in the best of form, he was putting in 200%. One that stands out for me is the second half of the second leg against barca when we were down to 10 men.. the only player trying to hurry the barca players was JW. All the other players were just doing nothing and accepted defeat. JW's attitude is first rate and I think majority of the squad should learn more than a thing or two from him.
Didn't Nasri struggle after coming back from injury though?
Japan Shaking All Over
21-07-2011, 01:09 AM
Nonsense, if he only had 4 good months with us than he wouldnt have been offered an extension before last season. He has been inconsistent at times but those having a dig about 4 months of playing well are only doing so because the player wants to leave the club to go elsewhere.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did. This is not an individual problem its a Managment issue. WEnger is a poor with player management. He cannot keep his players focused and he lets them get away with the same shite over and over again. But some fans are failing to acknowlege this and would rather point the finger at individual players rather than get to the real source of the problem.
Nasri has even said himself that its about trophies, not money. Most of the BS being spouted is due to those people buying into the inaccurate media speculation. But again people want to have a go at him because he wants to leave to a club with greater sporting ambition. Cesc is getting the same treatment from the fans as well for wanting to go, next will be RVP when he doesnt want to commit his future then it will be Theo. TH14 and Freddie even wanted to see more ambition from the club and even they were singled out way back when for saying so.
Get rid of the manager and I truly believe you will see happier players, a change in effort and a change in the mental focus we need. Its all there to see cleary whats going on but I think some fans cannot come to terms that maybe Wenger (or the board) have failed in what they set out to do.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did
its was eerie how so many gave up the fight when there was still something to fight for.......thats mental and thats Wenger, plain and simple!
Nonsense, if he only had 4 good months with us than he wouldnt have been offered an extension before last season. He has been inconsistent at times but those having a dig about 4 months of playing well are only doing so because the player wants to leave the club to go elsewhere.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did. This is not an individual problem its a Managment issue. WEnger is a poor with player management. He cannot keep his players focused and he lets them get away with the same shite over and over again. But some fans are failing to acknowlege this and would rather point the finger at individual players rather than get to the real source of the problem.
Nasri has even said himself that its about trophies, not money. Most of the BS being spouted is due to those people buying into the inaccurate media speculation. But again people want to have a go at him because he wants to leave to a club with greater sporting ambition. Cesc is getting the same treatment from the fans as well for wanting to go, next will be RVP when he doesnt want to commit his future then it will be Theo. TH14 and Freddie even wanted to see more ambition from the club and even they were singled out way back when for saying so.
Get rid of the manager and I truly believe you will see happier players, a change in effort and a change in the mental focus we need. Its all there to see cleary whats going on but I think some fans cannot come to terms that maybe Wenger (or the board) have failed in what they set out to do.
Well argued, but I disagree.
Re your point about not being offered an extension if he had had only 4 good months, prior to last season. Loads of Arsenal players have been offered contract extensions on the basis of potential, not consistent performances, and Nasri was no different. Prior to last Summer, he had shown flashes of brilliance, nothing more. And this is precisely why he was offered what he was offered - a figure that the player and his agents clearly thought could be bettered. I am inclined to take the side of the club on this one. We can't on the one hand slag AW and the board off for paying so-called 'underperforming' players who have never achieved anything with us too much, and on the other criticise them for not breaking the bank to give Nasri what he wanted last Summer. Common sense dictates that the club adopts the same standards in any contract negotiation - offer a fair price based on performance, and the recognition, in the majority of cases, that full potential has yet to be fulfilled.
I find it a bit strange that the inclination amongst many seems to be to side with the palyer who refused to sign last Summer, rather than the club who attempted to sign him. I for one see an obvious strategy in the Nasri camp, not to sign in the hope of bettering his money later. And like with Flamini, I am rather sceptical of a player who suddenly started playing to his potential immediately thereafter, only to switch off in February.
I don't buy the trophies thing, either. I have no doubt that Nasri wants to be part of a successful team, but I refuse to accept that this is his primary motivation. We were absolutely flying at the turn of the year - but did he engage in negotiations re the contract that had been offered him then? No. Keeping your options open is not the same as playing for trophies. Yes - any player who gets offered more money at a club with expectations of winning things will take it. But the fact that generally speaking the clubs with the big money are the sucessful ones shouldn't amount to this automatic 'defence' of the likes of Nasri.
As others have said, the 'ambition' argument is easier to take from players who have put real effort into achieving things with their current clubs. Nasri is not in the same boat at all here as TH14; Freddie; Vieira; Cesc. As for taking what Nasri says at face value...I'm afraid that it is plain naive to think that what any want away player says has not been orchestrated by his agent and PR team.
And I think that this defence that Nasri wasn't the only one who went off the boil last season rather misses the point too. For me, if you want to be the highest wage earner at the club, then you cannot look to everyone else, you have to be prepared to be the go to guy - the one that keeps going when others are fading. that's what justifies your price tag. If you are going to go missing when lesser players do, then you deserve to get paid what they get paid.
That is in my view why Nasri is being 'singled out'.
Champagne Charlie
21-07-2011, 11:49 AM
Excellent post. Spot on imo.
Olivier's xmas twist
21-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Well argued, but I disagree.
Re your point about not being offered an extension if he had had only 4 good months, prior to last season. Loads of Arsenal players have been offered contract extensions on the basis of potential, not consistent performances, and Nasri was no different. Prior to last Summer, he had shown flashes of brilliance, nothing more. And this is precisely why he was offered what he was offered - a figure that the player and his agents clearly thought could be bettered. I am inclined to take the side of the club on this one. We can't on the one hand slag AW and the board off for paying so-called 'underperforming' players who have never achieved anything with us too much, and on the other criticise them for not breaking the bank to give Nasri what he wanted last Summer. Common sense dictates that the club adopts the same standards in any contract negotiation - offer a fair price based on performance, and the recognition, in the majority of cases, that full potential has yet to be fulfilled.
I find it a bit strange that the inclination amongst many seems to be to side with the palyer who refused to sign last Summer, rather than the club who attempted to sign him. I for one see an obvious strategy in the Nasri camp, not to sign in the hope of bettering his money later. And like with Flamini, I am rather sceptical of a player who suddenly started playing to his potential immediately thereafter, only to switch off in February.
I don't buy the trophies thing, either. I have no doubt that Nasri wants to be part of a successful team, but I refuse to accept that this is his primary motivation. We were absolutely flying at the turn of the year - but did he engage in negotiations re the contract that had been offered him then? No. Keeping your options open is not the same as playing for trophies. Yes - any player who gets offered more money at a club with expectations of winning things will take it. But the fact that generally speaking the clubs with the big money are the sucessful ones shouldn't amount to this automatic 'defence' of the likes of Nasri.
As others have said, the 'ambition' argument is easier to take from players who have put real effort into achieving things with their current clubs. Nasri is not in the same boat at all here as TH14; Freddie; Vieira; Cesc. As for taking what Nasri says at face value...I'm afraid that it is plain naive to think that what any want away player says has not been orchestrated by his agent and PR team.
And I think that this defence that Nasri wasn't the only one who went off the boil last season rather misses the point too. For me, if you want to be the highest wage earner at the club, then you cannot look to everyone else, you have to be prepared to be the go to guy - the one that keeps going when others are fading. that's what justifies your price tag. If you are going to go missing when lesser players do, then you deserve to get paid what they get paid.
That is in my view why Nasri is being 'singled out'.
:gp:
Coney
21-07-2011, 12:11 PM
Didn't Nasri struggle after coming back from injury though?
Careful - we wouldn't want any facts to get in the way. ;)
That's not the point, Coney
When you are offering a contract, as we did last Summer, you don't say 'we were only going to offer you 65K per week, based on your performances, but because you were injured, we'll offer you 75Kpw. You look at the whole package - including how the player played before and after injury.
If we are now excusing performances on the basis of injury, this is vindication of the arguent that prior to the first 4/5 months of last season, AFC had seen potential, no more from the player, and offered a new contract accordingly.
Nasri wasn't injured after February this year, to my knowledge(?), yet failed to distinguish himself when needed. And as I've said above, the fact that others were similarly underwhelming is also not the point.
Fist of Lehmann
21-07-2011, 12:19 PM
Nonsense, if he only had 4 good months with us than he wouldnt have been offered an extension before last season.How many good months had Diaby put in before his contract extention? Or Denilson? We extend contracts as a matter of course, to protect our assets and try and ensure a Flamini situation doesn't accrue.
He has been inconsistent at times but those having a dig about 4 months of playing well are only doing so because the player wants to leave the club to go elsewhere.Not really. They're having a dig because he wants parity with our longest serving, most consistently productive, and best player and captain. Based on what? 3 years of 'inconsistency'.
Nasri wasnt the only one last season who went off the boil...Wilshere, Cesc, Song etc...all did. This is not an individual problem its a Managment issue. WEnger is a poor with player management. He cannot keep his players focused and he lets them get away with the same shite over and over again. But some fans are failing to acknowlege this and would rather point the finger at individual players rather than get to the real source of the problem.Wenger couldn't raise the team, that's self evident. But are not players not at least in some part responsible for their own performance? If I make mistakes in my work or can't be bothered to do it, should my line manager get the sack while I demand a pay rise? Laying the entire blame on the manager is as much an attempt to shift responsibilty as blaming the players exclusively.
It's also notable that his man-management did not unduly hamper the team in the first 10 or so years of his tenure.
Nasri has even said himself that its about trophies, not money. Most of the BS being spouted is due to those people buying into the inaccurate media speculation. But again people want to have a go at him because he wants to leave to a club with greater sporting ambition.Strange how the 'I want to leave to win things' only emerged a couple of months later immediately post the Twitter backlash. Damage limitation anyone? Nobody knows the weighting of his priorities, though money and trophies are both sure to figure (maybe London is too noisy?). But if people are having a go, it's because they don't necessarily believe the ambition thing when the first information to surface was about his wage demands.
Get rid of the manager and I truly believe you will see happier players, a change in effort and a change in the mental focus we need. Its all there to see cleary whats going on but I think some fans cannot come to terms that maybe Wenger (or the board) have failed in what they set out to do.That depends on what they set out to do. If their intention was to keep the club in the upper tier in Europe while trying to build 3 multi-million pound developments, they've done okay so far. If they set out to win things as well then obviously they have failed.
Contrary to whatever conclusions you may have drawn, I am not in any apologist's camp, and there may or may not be merit in your penultimate sentence, but I doubt things are that clear cut.
Power n Glory
21-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Nasri - I'd swap accolades for trophiesSamir Nasri would swap every individual accolade he has received this season to get his hands on the Premier League trophy.
The 23-year was runner-up behind Gareth Bale in the PFA Player of the Year poll, received a nomination for the young player award, was named in the Premier League Team of the Season, won French Player of the Year for 2010 and won the Arsenal.com Player of the Month three times in a row.
But despite scoring 15 goals and bewildering defenders in England and beyond, Nasri looks set to finish the campaign without the one thing he craves the most - a winner's medal.
It's a source of frustration for the French international and he reflected on how Arsenal's title challenge tailed off with dropped points against Liverpool, Tottenham and Bolton when he spoke to the Official Matchday Programme.
"I don’t care if I’m second or even the best player in the league, I would have preferred to win the Premier League," admitted Nasri.
"I have won nothing since I became a professional at Marseille - I have always lost in the final or finished second in the league.
“I think they were three good games [against Liverpool, Tottenham and Bolton] but of course at the end we were left really disappointed in all three. We were leading 1-0 until the 102nd minute against Liverpool; time should have been over.
"We were very frustrated but after that I thought we responded well in midweek against Tottenham, played very well, but once again we were leading 3-1 and ended up not winning the game. If you want to win the title it’s difficult to lose many points at the end of games, and that’s what happened at Bolton as well.”
Last week Johan Djourou pinpointed the Carling Cup Final defeat to Birmingham on February 27 as the moment Arsenal's season started to turn sour. Nasri agrees with his Swiss team-mate.
"Sometimes you can’t control everything that happens in a game," he said. "Sometimes you miss a chance and in the same minute the opponents can equalise. So it’s difficult but yes, everyone was really disappointed after the Carling Cup Final.
"We were thinking we could win our first cup for six years so it hurt us. We lost that game in a difficult way, then one week later when we were leading against Barcelona we had the incident with the referee and it was like two massive blows in a week.
"It was really difficult to come back from that, but we tried to do everything."
Worth checking out past quotes and articles if we're going to accuse players of being greedy. The agent may very well be playing the game, but I think it's different with Nasri. He may have woke up one morning and realised he just joined another Marseille.
Champagne Charlie
21-07-2011, 01:43 PM
Worth checking out past quotes and articles if we're going to accuse players of being greedy. The agent may very well be playing the game, but I think it's different with Nasri. He may have woke up one morning and realised he just joined another Marseille.
It's all speculation as to why he's stalling on signing the contract, and it's pretty obvious that both money and ambition are going to be a factor. Which one is influencing him more is obviously up for debate, but personally if a player is stalling on a contract I tend to take whatever they have to say about it with a huge pinch of salt!
Worth checking out past quotes and articles if we're going to accuse players of being greedy. The agent may very well be playing the game, but I think it's different with Nasri. He may have woke up one morning and realised he just joined another Marseille.
he may even have regretted leaving l 'om b/c even they manged to win the league last year
Mr. Lahey
21-07-2011, 04:54 PM
Worth checking out past quotes and articles if we're going to accuse players of being greedy. The agent may very well be playing the game, but I think it's different with Nasri. He may have woke up one morning and realised he just joined another Marseille.
Thanks for posting this. And of course it will get ignored and written off as bollox by some on here. Im going to side with the actual quotes from the player himself rather than heresay by someone on this forum.
dazthegooner
21-07-2011, 04:55 PM
Thanks for posting this. And of course it will get ignored and written off as bollox by some on here. Im going to side with the actual quotes from the player himself rather than heresay by someone on this forum.
:gp:
Thanks for posting this. And of course it will get ignored and written off as bollox by some on here. Im going to side with the actual quotes from the player himself rather than heresay by someone on this forum.
:good:
Mr. Lahey
21-07-2011, 05:18 PM
How many good months had Diaby put in before his contract extention? Or Denilson? We extend contracts as a matter of course, to protect our assets and try and ensure a Flamini situation doesn't accrue.
Not really. They're having a dig because he wants parity with our longest serving, most consistently productive, and best player and captain. Based on what? 3 years of 'inconsistency'.
Wenger couldn't raise the team, that's self evident. But are not players not at least in some part responsible for their own performance? If I make mistakes in my work or can't be bothered to do it, should my line manager get the sack while I demand a pay rise? Laying the entire blame on the manager is as much an attempt to shift responsibilty as blaming the players exclusively.
It's also notable that his man-management did not unduly hamper the team in the first 10 or so years of his tenure.
Strange how the 'I want to leave to win things' only emerged a couple of months later immediately post the Twitter backlash. Damage limitation anyone? Nobody knows the weighting of his priorities, though money and trophies are both sure to figure (maybe London is too noisy?). But if people are having a go, it's because they don't necessarily believe the ambition thing when the first information to surface was about his wage demands.
That depends on what they set out to do. If their intention was to keep the club in the upper tier in Europe while trying to build 3 multi-million pound developments, they've done okay so far. If they set out to win things as well then obviously they have failed.
Contrary to whatever conclusions you may have drawn, I am not in any apologist's camp, and there may or may not be merit in your penultimate sentence, but I doubt things are that clear cut.
I dont know what people are expecting from Nasri at this stage in his career. He's 24 and in has only played 3 years in the EPL. His first season with us he was solid. WIning player of the year on here and came 2nd on Arsenal.com. Dont think you can be so inconsistent if those were the results by fans and by the clubs official website.
2nd year he was inconistent, broke his leg at the begining of the season and was out for the first two months. Nasri has gone on record saying that it was difficult for him as he didnt get a chance to be in top shape for the season. Breaking your leg in football is always going to be difficult. Some players are never the same since such an injury.
3rd year, he started out brilliant. First half of the season he was on fire, showing that he was a top 5 player in the world. He carried this squad for the first half of the season. Second half he went off the boil, looked tired and stopped dribbling at defenders and having a go from outside the area. Sure the season was inconsistent but not looking at when the goals were scored, 16 goals is a bloody great return and we would be hard pressed to find someone to come in and replace those goals. If he hadnt scored those goals last year than we would have sank like a stone. Where was our so called best player amongst all of this last year may I add? Only player who was better than him in the 2nd half was RVP. Some are gonna argue Wilshere, but where was his output? No goals, no final ball from him in ages, overrated.
THen we get to the collapse in the second half...all players collapsed (aside from RVP). Sure the players need to be accountable for themselves but it is ultimatley up to the Manager to keep their focus, make sure they are prepared and make sure that they stay hungry. Wenger has failed at doing this with this team. The reason he was successful earlier in his career was because he had stong leaders in Adams, Vieira, Campbell etc...in the team. It is now that he has gone with youth predominatley that this side of him is becoming exposed.
I am convinced that under a coach like Ferguson or Mohomo, a coach that knows how to motivate and get the best out of thier players that a player like Nasri would have been more consistent. This along with what he has done and his potential to get even better are reasons why we should give him the money (but for me its not about money with him).
As for what the club were setting out to do, "World class team in a World class stadium" were the words from Wenger and the board. We certainly have set out what we wanted to do on the balance sheet but as far as footballing we are miles away with the current set up.
Power n Glory
21-07-2011, 06:14 PM
Wenger is late. The slump swept through the whole team and not just Nasri. He couldn't motivate them to bounce back and he just watched as everything crumbled. It's his nature and character to try and stay calm, but it's not working. This slow nature of his is consistent.
- During a match when we need subs to change a game or a great half time team talk.
- After a set back and we need the team to respond to a loss.
- The transfer window. We need signings and he's idle. No action or response from the guy.
We can't have a coach trying to achieve 'Enlightenment' while shits falling down around him. He seems passive and his nature is not to panic and stay calm, don't let others effect your opinion....etc....but it's not helping us on this situation. It's why he comes across as stubborn and pig headed at times. A lot of fans have that perception so imagine the players close to him.
Forget the fans, Wenger has a serious task on his hands this season with his players. We were in a slump when the season ended and nobody knows for sure if it's over. The club is filled with uncertainty and we seem to be treading down the same path as we usual do which isn't reassuring to fans or players, so here we are. Weeks away from the season starting an we're still talking about this sort of shit. Good times.
GunnerFan4Life
21-07-2011, 10:08 PM
My hairdresser asked who i thought would go, and i said they'd both stay because i know so :')
fakeyank
21-07-2011, 10:11 PM
:haha:
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