Wenger won't change philosophy

[bignev]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_7032601,00.html

This seriously worries me.

Despite saying before that he was going to strengthen defensively he has now gone back on it!

[Cripps_orig]

We need improvements everywhere. Not just in defence.

[Özim]

What a load of nonsense he talks, I wouldnt know where to start picking holes in what's he said :lol:

Does he ever stop making himself look like incompetent?

[Kano]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_7032601,00.html

This seriously worries me.

Despite saying before that he was going to strengthen defensively he has now gone back on it!

he said nothing in that article about not buying defensively.

try reading the thing first

[Cripps_orig]

he said nothing in that article about not buying defensively.

try reading the thing first

Does Wenger literally have to say something then for you to believe it?

Does him saying ""We are an offensive football team and want to be better in our offensive game than we have been, to continue to develop it and be stronger in what we want to do." not mean the same as he is going to do f all about the defence?

[Power n Glory]

Surprise, surprise. He might not sign anyone else. Maybe one more player but he's not buying a defender. I saw this one on the cards. People will say he's bluffing but considering how long it's taken us to sign Gervinho, I don't think we have the time to sign many more players.

It's not as if he hasn't done this before and backed out of signing players. He's done it twice already during the Jan window when we had players out injured.

[budesonide]

"We are very close. The season did not finish in a good way for us, but that should strengthen the resolve of the players and the staff to come back and say we know we can do it and that this season we will."

I swear -- this man is a big wan*ker.

This is what he has been saying the past 5 seasons! And slowly, as I predicted, he is reformulating his talking points as usual to suggest that there is not much wrong with the team and the team is good enough. He has already trotted out the "if we find one or two players of exceptional quality (better than what we've got) we'll add them" line.

I dispair. :rolleyes:

[Power n Glory]

Does Wenger literally have to say something then for you to believe it?

Does him saying ""We are an offensive football team and want to be better in our offensive game than we have been, to continue to develop it and be stronger in what we want to do." not mean the same as he is going to do f all about the defence?

Even if he said it, some would say he's bluffing to throw others off the trail even though he's never done that.

[Cripps_orig]

Even if he said it, some would say he's bluffing to throw others off the trail even though he's never done that.

Wengers smokescreen :bow:

They do exist. He just doesnt use them against other clubs but for his own fans

[selassie]

he said nothing in that article about not buying defensively.

try reading the thing first

He might as well have done. What he's basically saying in that article is that there is nothing wrong with the way we play and that we need to improve offensively. He's essentially saying everybody is wrong for stating Arsenal have defensive problems.

[Boss]

Can't wait to hear the excuses the WDR (Wenger Dick Riders™) will make up for his latest calamity in the press.

[Kano]

He might as well have done. What he's basically saying in that article is that there is nothing wrong with the way we play and that we need to improve offensively. He's essentially saying everybody is wrong for stating Arsenal have defensive problems.

what question was he responding to?

[Power n Glory]

We just signed two CB's last season. I knew he wouldn't give up on them so easily. It's not his style. If we sell Bendy, will be a striker short and Chamakh plus Gervinho go off the ACON. Maybe he'll sign a young striker.

[selassie]

what question was he responding to?

He was getting questioned about the defensive issues and he said that if we improve offensively that will offset the defensive problems, he more or less shrugged his shoulders and was dismissive of our defensive issues.

[Kano]

is there a video somewhere?

[Power n Glory]

You think it has been taken out of context somehow? What sort of question could have been asked to get that response?

[Joker]

This man is totally deluded. He's been saying the same bullshit about us developing as a team, coming close to winning titles and how we're only few percent away from greatness for the last 4 years, and each time it's been shown to be lie. Expect the same thing to happen to us this season, with us looking promising for a period (this time that period will be even shorter, probably from August-November) and then falling apart pathetically in all competitions, ending the season trophyless and probably outside the top 4 this time as well.

[Kano]

You think it has been taken out of context somehow? What sort of question could have been asked to get that response?

a question about attacking intent, or strengthening in that area with a striker?

as there is fuck all going on with real transfers in football, i wouldnt put it past the hacks to create their own context. one sentence creates the whole article.

anyway, he already said at the end of last season that the philosophy wouldn't change. so there should be no surprise he says the same.

fair enough im wrong if he did mug off defensive signings but i'm past sick of the media bs in the off season, with everyone cautious on buying, the media are fucking nauseating

[cricketsi]

Can't wait to hear the excuses the WDR (Wenger Dick Riders™) will make up for his latest calamity in the press.

No excuses needed. He's just stating the truth.

:popcorn:

[Sirjackofwilshere]

I don't think people realise just how strapped for cash we are as long as we're still tied in with these commercial deals. According to the AST meeting tonight we'd break even if we missed out on the CL.

[budesonide]

I don't think people realise just how strapped for cash we are as long as we're still tied in with these commercial deals. According to the AST meeting tonight we'd break even if we missed out on the CL.

from the horse's own mouth:

I can understand that people say ‘you have money, just go out and buy’. But it’s not only that, we want to find the quality we need. :banghead:


http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-we-are-working-long-nights-to-sign-players-

[Kano]

if only there was a thread about that...

[budesonide]

wont stop you trolling though ...

[Kano]

i was joking you big tart dont wet yourself ffs

[budesonide]

so was I, boss :thumb:

[LDG]

:haha: Shut up Arsene.

[Letters]

Unless he just stops giving press conferences people will always pick at what he says right now.
And if he did that I'm sure they'd pick him up for saying nothing.

He does come out with some crap sometimes but not sure he's really said anything of note here really.

[Cripps_orig]

Unless he just stops giving press conferences people will always pick at what he says right now.
And if he did that I'm sure they'd pick him up for saying nothing.

He does come out with some crap sometimes but not sure he's really said anything of note here really.

Not wanting to improve the defence isnt anything of note?

[Letters]

Not wanting to improve the defence isnt anything of note?

Where did he say that? End of last season he was very clear that defence was a problem.
Whether he'll actually DO a anything about it this summer remains to be seen and I'm skeptical (it's not the first time he's cited it as a problem and failed to address it) but I wouldn't expect him to suddenly change our set up to be defensive nor would I want him to.

[Özim]

Where did he say that? End of last season he was very clear that defence was a problem.
Whether he'll actually DO a anything about it this summer remains to be seen and I'm skeptical (it's not the first time he's cited it as a problem and failed to address it) but I wouldn't expect him to suddenly change our set up to be defensive nor would I want him to.
Yeah trouble is he says one thing then backtracks at a later date, I've noticed this over many years. He'll say one thing a a few weeks later everything is suddenly OK.

You just know he's not going to bother directly addressing the problem areas, his comments about the offensive game kinda insinuate that. He's always been more interested in attack than defence, thing is once upon a time he had quality at the back that could organise itself, in recent years he's bought cheap and never found any organisers/leaders.

I'm amazed you don't want him to change the setup though, you must be happy with giving away 4 goal leads and never looking safer even when 2-3 goals ahead.

You'll never win a thing without a decent defence.

[Master Splinter]

i was joking you big tart dont wet yourself ffs

:haha:

[GP]

Where did he say that? End of last season he was very clear that defence was a problem.
Whether he'll actually DO a anything about it this summer remains to be seen and I'm skeptical (it's not the first time he's cited it as a problem and failed to address it) but I wouldn't expect him to suddenly change our set up to be defensive nor would I want him to.

Good post

[Cripps_orig]

Where did he say that? End of last season he was very clear that defence was a problem.
Whether he'll actually DO a anything about it this summer remains to be seen and I'm skeptical (it's not the first time he's cited it as a problem and failed to address it) but I wouldn't expect him to suddenly change our set up to be defensive nor would I want him to.

This set up is shit defensively and lets be honest here, its pretty shit offensively as well. How many times over the last few seasons have we lacked killer instinct in games we should win piss easily?

Change is needed from top to bottom, from board level to players, formations and tactics.

What we are doing now has failed and badly.

[Letters]

He's always been more interested in attack than defence, thing is once upon a time he had quality at the back that could organise itself, in recent years he's bought cheap and never found any organisers/leaders.

Agreed. Although we were a little unlucky that Vermy was injured all last season because he is the one player in our defence who I think might just be able to organise them.


I'm amazed you don't want him to change the setup though,

I don't want him to radically change our attacking philosophy. I don't want to go back to 1-0 to the Arsenal. You may think our football now is dull, it is at times but it's still far better than some of the stuff we used to play when I started going to Arsenal. My dad was very close to giving up our season tickets one year it was so dull.
What I do want is for him to get them organised so we stop conceding stupid goals from set pieces and long, straight balls all the time. I don't think we need to radically change our style or buy a complete new defence to achieve that.


you must be happy with giving away 4 goal leads and never looking safer even when 2-3 goals ahead.

That's far too stupid to respond to, so I won't.


You'll never win a thing without a decent defence.

Agreed.

[Letters]

This set up is shit defensively and lets be honest here, its pretty shit offensively as well.

:lol: Only Utd scored more goals than us last year. Stop being silly.

[Cripps_orig]

:lol: Only Utd scored more goals than us last year. Stop being silly.

Youre happy with the pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, theres an opening for a shot but fuck that, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, give the ball away, other team go on their first attack of the game, we are 1-0 down. We take kick off. pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass and so on?

Must be the only Arsenal fan that is.

If Arsenal were a football player, We'd be Dimitar Berbatov. When we play well, we look good. Same as him. When we dont, we dont have the work rate to give a fuck. Same as him. Also we score our goals in bulk in a part of the season but not throughout the season. Much like Berbatov.

Our lack of killer instinct cost us the title in 07/08 and its not really improved since. Back then though we had a decent defence. Dont even have that anymore.

I like Vermaelen as do most gooners but how many like him more for his goals than his actual defending cos he hasnt pulled up any trees with it so far.

[Letters]

We overplay at times and we do move forward too slowly too often when we need more pace.
But you think the 2nd top scorers in the title are 'shit offensively'? Really? Behave yourself.
We only failed to score in 6 league games last year (Utd failed to in 5, for comparison).

[Power n Glory]

Where did he say that? End of last season he was very clear that defence was a problem.Whether he'll actually DO a anything about it this summer remains to be seen and I'm skeptical (it's not the first time he's cited it as a problem and failed to address it) but I wouldn't expect him to suddenly change our set up to be defensive nor would I want him to.Wenger made out as if our defensive record wasn't that bad last season. Djourou even started talking that same bs and tried to make out as if the media had made the whole thing up. his defiant attitude is no good to anyone. It pisses off the press, the fans and even his own players. I hope the defence haven't been taken in by his delusional statments. Djourou looked to have fallen under his spell last season with his silly comments. It's harmful stuff. These guys need to know where they're at and what they should be aiming for. He needs to tell them exactly how shit they are and how they need to improve. But that's a side note. The point is, Wenger has stop with this pig headed defiant attitude. It's rubbing people up the wrong way. He could have just said we'll improve on defending but the philosophy will remain the same. We'd all be fine with that. But he has to go further. Letters, it takes you a very long time to see problems in Wenger's methods and your usually the last one. I've remembered countless seasons where you're willing to give Wenger The benefit of the doubt and see little wrong with what he does. In Cup games we'd lose, you'd say Wenger was right to pick a weak side, we've gone 6 years without a trophy now and now it's finally starting to Dawn on a few folks that we maybe should have taken those games more seriously. I remember having the same silly debate about his team selection during the Wigan game. We just beat Chelsea and Wenger then decides to make wholesale changes to the first team and we end up dropping two points. You thought Wenger was right then as well! It may get a little tiresome hearing people dig at Wenger, but it really has been tiring listening to guys constantly covering for his mistakes over the past 6 years and telling others to pipe down when they've been right from morning! Maybe you should chillax. Yeah, you've finally come around to thinking we need a change, but this is well late into the game and it's pretty insulting to hear you popping at guys when you've been wrong for a very long time.

[Boss]

Wenger made out as if our defensive record wasn't that bad last season. Djourou even started talking that same bs and tried to make out as if the media had made the whole thing up. his defiant attitude is no good to anyone. It pisses off the press, the fans and even his own players. I hope the defence haven't been taken in by his delusional statments. Djourou looked to have fallen under his spell last season with his silly comments. It's harmful stuff. These guys need to know where they're at and what they should be aiming for. He needs to tell them exactly how shit they are and how they need to improve. But that's a side note. The point is, Wenger has stop with this pig headed defiant attitude. It's rubbing people up the wrong way. He could have just said we'll improve on defending but the philosophy will remain the same. We'd all be fine with that. But he has to go further. Letters, it takes you a very long time to see problems in Wenger's methods and your usually the last one. I've remembered countless seasons where you're willing to give Wenger The benefit of the doubt and see little wrong with what he does. In Cup games we'd lose, you'd say Wenger was right to pick a weak side, we've gone 6 years without a trophy now and now it's finally starting to Dawn on a few folks that we maybe should have taken those games more seriously. I remember having the same silly debate about his team selection during the Wigan game. We just beat Chelsea and Wenger then decides to make wholesale changes to the first team and we end up dropping two points. You thought Wenger was right then as well! It may get a little tiresome hearing people dig at Wenger, but it really has been tiring listening to guys constantly covering for his mistakes over the past 6 years and telling others to pipe down when they've been right from morning! Maybe you should chillax. Yeah, you've finally come around to thinking we need a change, but this is well late into the game and it's pretty insulting to hear you popping at guys when you've been wrong for a very long time.

Sensational post.

(even if when I read it there was some spacing going)

[Letters]

I'm not getting into the Wigan debate again, I said what I said at the time and stand by it.
We dropped 2 points because of a stupid defensive mistake of the type we made all last season no matter who was playing.

And it's not true to say I've always defended his choices. When we got dicked at Old Trafford in the FA Cup a couple of years back I was fuming about his selection in such an important game. In other games I thought he was right to mix it up given the fixtures list.

I don't mind people having digs at Wenger and, again, I have done so myself. What is tiresome is people taking ANY excuse to have a pop NO MATTER what he says. Sheesh.

[Niall_Quinn]

what question was he responding to?

Tell your dad to buy some fucking defenders!

[Letters]

Wenger made out as if our defensive record wasn't that bad last season.

Oh and did he? Tbh I read the article quickly and didn't see where he said that?
If he did say that then fine: :doh:
But I certainly saw him interviewed after games at the tail end last season and cite the problem as defence.
Whether he'll do anything about it...well, I'm skeptical but we'll see.

[Power n Glory]

Sensational post.

(even if when I read it there was some spacing going)

Sorry dude. Blame the iPod.

[Kano]

Tell your dad to buy some fucking defenders!

http://www.drmventurestrading.co.uk/bukta-defender-trainers-bu-d10-11867-p.asp

he's more a dunlop guy

[Cripps_orig]

We overplay at times and we do move forward too slowly too often when we need more pace.
But you think the 2nd top scorers in the title are 'shit offensively'? Really? Behave yourself.
We only failed to score in 6 league games last year (Utd failed to in 5, for comparison).

We dont have a problem scoring one goal. We have a problem killing teams off which comes in to the being shit offensively bit.

Overplay at times? At times? Seriously? We do it more often than not. It'd be more accurate to say we shoot at goal at times. I believe we didnt score from outside the area at all last season in our home games. Just another thing to put in an embarrassing season.

Its a problem that can be easily fixed. Just shoot. Simple as that. Lampard has fuck knows how many goals from deflections cos the cunt shoots when he can.

[Niall_Quinn]

Where did he say that? End of last season he was very clear that defence was a problem.
Whether he'll actually DO a anything about it this summer remains to be seen and I'm skeptical (it's not the first time he's cited it as a problem and failed to address it) but I wouldn't expect him to suddenly change our set up to be defensive nor would I want him to.

What about changing our setup so we actually had a defence, that'd be cool you have to admit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol: Only Utd scored more goals than us last year. Stop being silly.

This is a prize example exposing how weak arguements based purely on stats can be. We all saw what a disaster our offence was when we needed them most. I think I went to three home games in a row during our 'easy run' when we were supposed to catch and surpass United and saw us score no goals. I'll save some smartass the bother of pointing out Arshavin's disallowed goal during that period. But regardless of stats over the course of the season, we saw an almost totally amaemic attack when we needed it most. The only guy delivering was Van Persie, and as much as I love the guy, I'd hate to have to rely on him.

[Letters]

We dont have a problem scoring one goal. We have a problem killing teams off which comes in to the being shit offensively bit.

Just looked at the scores in league games where we dropped points last season (there were 19, we won the rest).
6 times we conceded 2 goals, 4 times we conceded 3 and once we conceded 4 (no prizes for guessing who that was against!)

Whilst I agree that we have at times failed to kill teams off we really shouldn't need to score 3 or more goals to win a game. In 11 of the 19 games where we dropped points last season we'd have needed to do just that. IMO that points to a problem in defence far more than offence although I agree we are wasteful at times.

[Power n Glory]

Towards the end of last season, we could all see something needed changing. The squad looks the same and Wenger won't adjust his philosophy and still thinks we need a better attack.

Henry once said, the attacking players were nervous and rushing things when up front because they knew the defence could leak a goal at any moment. RVP may have said something similar last season. Unless the defence is rock solid, nobody is comfortable. It's called building a house on sand. The foundations aren't solid and Wenger has to do away with this type of thinking. This is Real Madrid galactico era philosophy. They had the world's most talented attack but couldn't win shit because they couldn't defend.

[Letters]

This is a prize example exposing how weak arguements based purely on stats can be. We all saw what a disaster our offence was when we needed them most. I think I went to three home games in a row during our 'easy run' when we were supposed to catch and surpass United and saw us score no goals. I'll save some smartass the bother of pointing out Arshavin's disallowed goal during that period. But regardless of stats over the course of the season, we saw an almost totally amaemic attack when we needed it most. The only guy delivering was Van Persie, and as much as I love the guy, I'd hate to have to rely on him.

We only failed to score twice in the run in?

Even in the disasterous run in we scored 2 vs West Brom, 3 at Spurs and 2 at Fulham and didn't win any of those games. The far bigger problem is in defence. We do need to be more clinical but it's hardly an irrelevant stat to look at goals scored when talking about offence.

[Cripps_orig]

The far bigger problem is in defence.

I agree.

Wenger in the link posted in the OP disagrees.

He wants to strengthen the attack which is fine by me cos it does need strengthening but he seems to think its one or the other. Attack or defence. Well no, you can strengthen both this summer.

He seems to be going by the "we'll score one more than you" tactic which as we have seen is exciting when it works but as is the case more often than not, fucking frustrating when it doesnt

[Letters]

I agree.

Wenger in the link posted in the OP disagrees.

Does he? There's a line in the article which says "But Wenger believes an improvement up front will be enough to offset their defensive frailities." but nowhere does Wenger say anything like that.

[Cripps_orig]

"This team is getting mature, strong and we do not need to change our philosophy. We have to even be better in what we want to do.

"We are an offensive football team (http://topics.skysports.com/football+team/?section=football)http://static.lingospot.com/spot/image/spacer.gif and want to be better in our offensive game than we have been, to continue to develop it and be stronger in what we want to do.


That bit which i guess most of us took to mean hes going to improve the offense and fuck the defence

[Sirjackofwilshere]

Just to add cheer to this happy fest...Wenger interviewd Gazidis for the CEO job.

can't delete the post on the other thread.

[Cripps_orig]

Just to add cheer to this happy fest...Wenger interviewd Gazidis for the CEO job.

can't delete the post on the other thread.

Click on go advanced and then delete it

[Power n Glory]

We only failed to score twice in the run in?

Even in the disasterous run in we scored 2 vs West Brom, 3 at Spurs and 2 at Fulham and didn't win any of those games. The far bigger problem is in defence. We do need to be more clinical but it's hardly an irrelevant stat to look at goals scored when talking about offence.

He has too much power.


Just to add cheer to this happy fest...Wenger interviewd Gazidis for the CEO job.

can't delete the post on the other thread.

[Letters]

That bit which i guess most of us took to mean hes going to improve the offense and fuck the defence

Well, we'll see. He did cite the defence as the problem last season so let's see if he does anything about it.
I've heard him admit defensive problems previously though and he's not fixed them so I'm skeptical

[Xhaka Can’t]

We only failed to score twice in the run in?

Even in the disasterous run in we scored 2 vs West Brom, 3 at Spurs and 2 at Fulham and didn't win any of those games. The far bigger problem is in defence. We do need to be more clinical but it's hardly an irrelevant stat to look at goals scored when talking about offence.

Sweet jesus, you saw it with your own eyes. We have problems up front. And I am referring specifically, as I made clear, to that piss easy run we had where we were supposed to make ground and pass United. To make it even clearer, here is what I am referring to:
Wolves 2-0 win
Stoke - 1-0 win
Sunderland 0-0
WBA 2-2
Blackburn - 0-0
Liverpool - 1-1

Eight points out of 18. Three home games in a row where the only goal came from a penalty. Van Persie, the only guy delivering. I'd fucking love to rely on Van Persie, he is world class. But I can't because he is injury prone.

Don't tell me you didn't sit wondering last season where the next goal was going to come from.

Yeah, we started scoring again during the run in. Except it was not a run in. We were completely out of it when we started scoring again, and it was pretty much all Van Persie.

[ElusiveGooner]

Just looked at the scores in league games where we dropped points last season (there were 19, we won the rest).
6 times we conceded 2 goals, 4 times we conceded 3 and once we conceded 4 (no prizes for guessing who that was against!)

Whilst I agree that we have at times failed to kill teams off we really shouldn't need to score 3 or more goals to win a game. In 11 of the 19 games where we dropped points last season we'd have needed to do just that. IMO that points to a problem in defence far more than offence although I agree we are wasteful at times.

Letters, if thats the case, then why isn't Wenger pulling out all the stops in order to fix this issue? Why hasn't he identified a player, or even a coach that can help to resolve these defensive issues? It's going on for two months since the season finished. And Wenger's 'activity' in the transfer market are a couple unknown kids, and YET ANOTHER signing from the bargain basement that is LIGUE1.

Fans can see it, pundits can see it, the media wont stop talking about it. But Wenger? Nope all we need is a bit more 'spirit' coupled with another ageing French past it defender. I swear, if Jonathan Woodgate was French, we would have just pipped Stoke to his signing.

[Kano]

He was getting questioned about the defensive issues and he said that if we improve offensively that will offset the defensive problems, he more or less shrugged his shoulders and was dismissive of our defensive issues.

what a load of bollocks

let's be honest, you didn't even see it did you, you're just making stuff up to justify your criticism.


the question was: when you won the titles in 98, 02 and 04, how different was your coaching philosophy back then compared to now? do you stand by your principles of attacking, entertaining football

aw: the competition is very hard in england, hardest league in the world. we have changed a little bit in 04, 05. we have developed a team is capable to compete at the top level in the world now, they are getting maturer, stronger and we do not need to change our philosophy, we have to be better in what we want to do. we are an offensive football team, i think we want to be better in our offensive game than we have been and continue to do that, be stronger in what we want to do.


see, bollocks created by a nothing news article on a quiet news day.