Wenger being sanctimonious again

[Joker]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-city-deal-is-platini-s-biggest-test

And City are angry with the remarks:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,20876_7034358,00.html

Why doesn't Wenger just shut up for once and concentrate on our club? Not only does making comments like these waste time, but they wind up and anger opposition teams and fans, giving them an extra incentive to be fired up against us, creating an even more hostile environment than normal.

Moreover, the fact is Wenger is not fully informed anyway with regards to this matter. He claims that you shouldn't be allowed to have sponsorship deals above market price, but what evidence is there that City's naming rights deal with Ethihad Airlines is above market price? Has he equated demand=supply and come up with the equilibrium market price? The truth is that the financial details are confidential, so Wenger is simply engaged in speculation, and decided to use this as an opportunity to behave in a sanctimonious manner again, trying to tell clubs how to run their affairs, as if he's the ultimate moral arbiter of what is right and what is wrong in the world of football.

There's even the chance that Wenger will face charges of hypocricy, because even if City have cleverly circumvented the spirit of the law even if they're within the rules of the law, we're hardly squeaky clean in that regard are we? Many of the club's top players including Thierry Henry avoided tax through legal but morally dubious means, then there's George Graham's payments to agents, the fact that we flood our academy with young, foreign talents who are paid handsomely to leave their home academy, and to push through these deals we also incentivise ("bribe") their parents to encourage them to put pressure on their children to join our club.

When our manager tries to come across as morally pure, it simply shows him up to be a hypocrite, and irritates opposition clubs unnecessarily. Instead of moaning about the activities of other teams, why doesn't Wenger concentrate on improving the squad, so that we can improve on last season's dreadful showing? He acts as if we are constrained by the activities of other teams. This is not wholly true. City are not stopping us signing top quality players, Wenger is the one responsible, because he's become a free market fundamentalist, who knows the price of everything (which explains his penny pinching) but the value of nothing.

[Boss]

He's right tbf, and a few others have complained about the new deal.

And as Wenger's an economist and probably the most financially astute (in terms of running a club like a business) manager in the game, I'd reckon he'd know if a deal was overvalued.

[Kano]

i'm sure he was just answering a question, and anyway, he's right.


There's even the chance that Wenger will face charges of hypocricy

what sort of punishment do the FA give for that?

[budesonide]

he was asked a question and he answered.

but then, you can't deny his 'better than thou' attitude.

wenger's way is the right way -- all football must be played and ran this way.

left to wenger, every club will be given x amount to spend on players and wages each season -- this way he will be able to prove that he is better than Sir Alex, Mourihno and co.

we've all been this principled in life at some point, haven't we?

However, if we did that with someone else's company,money and time -- we will have been told to go fu*ck ourselves a long time ago. Therein lies the rub.

[budesonide]

He's right tbf, and a few others have complained about the new deal.

And as Wenger's an economist and probably the most financially astute (in terms of running a club like a business) manager in the game, I'd reckon he'd know if a deal was overvalued.

I believe Joker's point was whether, we as a club, are as squeaky clean and have not exploited holes in regulations to our advantage.

[Champagne Charlie]

TBF, I imagine Arsene was answering a specific question on City's deal and the implications with regards to the FFP rules, and really I don't see anything wrong with his answer! In my opinion he's putting the ball in UEFA's court, putting public pressure on them to act, rather than having a dig at City.

And it really seems people will do anything to have a pop at Wenger. City's comments aren't directed specifically at AW, a number of people have raised concerns over the deal, but the media spin it as "City hit back at Wenger" and its blown of of all proportion.

But then with our own fans constantly slating Wenger for anything and everthing it's no surprise the media do as well. Quite how Wenger will have to "face charges of hypocrisy" because of George Graham's payments and Theirry Henry's taxes is beyond me!

[Kano]

so what?

no one is squeaky clean in or out of football. does that mean when others do something not viewed as correct, they should just be ignored?

[LDG]

He's right.

And he's protecting our club. We should be grateful.

The FFP rules are there to promote healthy competition, not only in business, but in football as well. Yes, we may exploit loopholes in a business sense, and I have no problem with that. It's business afterall.

City are not a business. The owners are not in it to profit, they are only in it to show off. If they are not accountable, or don't play by the same rules as everybody else, then it's all pointless.

There will always be winners and losers in sport and in busniess, that's the way it works. The best win through in both, and that is down to good management in both. Even if it's like the glazers at utd. It's business.

City are not a business, and that is why FFP needs to come in. Otherwise it will ruin the sport.

[budesonide]

no;

but you can point out the absurd hypocrisy of it all though. :coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

no;

but you can point out the absurd hypocrisy of it all though. :coffee:

If anyone thinks the activiies of Arsenal are similar in any way to that of City, you have an alarming lack of perspective and/or judgement.

Wenger is spot on in what he says and I completely support him saying it.

[Injury Time]

So we should really give them back their dirty money for Clichy right?

[Cripps_orig]

The guys a cunt.

/thread

ps i havent read the links on OP but whatever it is, wont change my mind about him.

[LDG]

So we should really give them back their dirty money for Clichy right?

Well no. They want our player, they have to pay for him.

Nothing wrong with that.

[Kano]

The guys a cunt.

/thread

ps i havent read the links on OP but whatever it is, wont change my mind about him.

bit harsh on Joker but there you go

[budesonide]

If anyone thinks the activiies of Arsenal are similar in any way to that of City, you have an alarming lack of perspective and/or judgement.

Wenger is spot on in what he says and I completely support him saying it.

I haven't said wenger was wrong. Is he being hypocritical? YES!

Joker is entitled to point that out.

As to the issue of scales of dodginess -- that's joker's perogative.

[Cripps_orig]

Just read it.

Wenger is spot on with what hes saying. Still, its none of his business as Joker said so STFU and concentrate on the club he is taking to the gutter.

Seems to me like Wenger is getting his excuses in already for when the Financial Fair Play rule kicks in and we still win f all

[Xhaka Can’t]

I haven't said wenger was wrong. Is he being hypocritical? YES!

Joker is entitled to point that out.

As to the issue of scales of dodginess -- that's joker's perogative.

Yes, lack of perspective and judgement is anyone's perogative, but we are dealing with something that has a fundamental effect over the game as a whole rather than a localised and corrected accounting irregularity.

[LDG]

Just read it.

Wenger is spot on with what hes saying. Still, its none of his business as Joker said so STFU and concentrate on the club he is taking to the gutter.

Seems to me like Wenger is getting his excuses in already for when the Financial Fair Play rule kicks in and we still win f all

:lol:

Pretty good excuse though really.

[Injury Time]

Well no. They want our player, they have to pay for him.

Nothing wrong with that.
But it's the same money that people will be complaining has bought the title at the end of the season :shrug:

[LDG]

But it's the same money that people will be complaining has bought the title at the end of the season :shrug:

Bloody right. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't get paid for our player.

[budesonide]

Yes, lack of perspective and judgement is anyone's perogative, but we are dealing with something that has a fundamental effect over the game as a whole rather than a localised and corrected accounting irregularity.

you know what has also had a fundamental effect on the game as whole since time immemorial?

poaching of young talent from smaller clubs by big clubs and causing a huge gap between the top tier and the lower tier --- so much so, the champions league group matches a farking unwatchable.

I recall platini slamming wenger for it a few years ago and the whole board (the old board that is) labelled platini a wan*ker for singling wenger out.

That is some perspective.

You see, perspective is when the said misdeed directly affects you. It is the name of the game. Most big businesses employ 'underhand' methods to get ahead (I give you microsoft).

Is wenger wrong, NO. Is he being hypocritical, YES.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I dont really see what Wenger saying as wrong, I think everybody in some way or other are asking the same thongs, even FIFA!
Wenger does make me wish that he would just STFU but in this case he is just using his position and knowledge to say what he has the right to say, the same way the owners of Citeh believe they have the right to dump an obsence amount of money into their club under the guise of a sponsorship deal

Let the peof have his dig. . .I mean say, let the Mancs get riled and then lets take it out on the pitch, we got nothing to be scared of a few Mancs throwing their toys out of their pram about something they probably dont understand anyway

[Mr.Singh]

I dont really see what Wenger saying as wrong, I think everybody in some way or other are asking the same thongs, even FIFA!
Wenger does make me wish that he would just STFU but in this case he is just using his position and knowledge to say what he has the right to say, the same way the owners of Citeh believe they have the right to dump an obsence amount of money into their club under the guise of a sponsorship deal

Let the peof have his dig. . .I mean say, let the Mancs get riled and then lets take it out on the pitch, we got nothing to be scared of a few Mancs throwing their toys out of their pram about something they probably dont understand anyway

Wenger is entitled to his opinion but sometimes he should just STFU and concentrate on his own team....

[budesonide]

Wenger is entitled to his opinion but sometimes he should just STFU and concentrate on his own team....

:goodpost:

I would have just said "I hope FIFA scrutinise that deal well enough -- if it is fair then fine" and just moved on. Very easy to do rather than go all judgmental.

But as Ach astutely pointed out, AW is getting his excuses in well ahead of time.

[Cripps_orig]

Liverpool owner John W Henry has backed Arsene Wenger after he questioned Manchester City's finances.

Wenger insinuated City were bending the rules of Uefa’s Financial Fair Play by agreeing a £400 million deal with Etihad Airways for the naming rights of their stadium.

This was denied by a City spokesman who stated the club are working within the rules and regulations of Uefa.

However, Henry has supported Wenger's claim and believes there could be something afoot with City’s finances.

Henry said on his Twitter account: “A club's best player has to be worth at least 10% of your naming rights. Mr. Wenger says boldly what everyone thinks.”


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/07/13/2572923/liverpool-owner-john-w-henry-backs-arsene-wengers-criticism

[AKBapologist]

Even abromovich is moaning about this. OP, as always is looking for yet another excuses to bitch at the manager.

[Champagne Charlie]

But as Ach astutely pointed out, AW is getting his excuses in well ahead of time.

Yeah he probably is working his excuses early, but it must be a bit frustrating for him to be fair. He's harped on for years about financial fair play and operating within a clubs means, then when the rules he's pined for for years finally come in, City go and say "fcuk that we're still spending big"!

Kind of pissing on Arsene's cornflakes!

[budesonide]

Yeah he probably is working his excuses early, but it must be a bit frustrating for him to be fair. He's harped on for years about financial fair play and operating within a clubs means, then when the rules he's pined for for years finally come in, City go and say "fcuk that we're still spending big"!

Kind of pissing on Arsene's cornflakes!

And that is the crust of the matter.
Reality bites, they say.

EDIT: let's hope this is the wake-up call AW needs to get him back into the real-world where winning is everything and you do everything that's within your means to win. The wanker Mourihno does it and he is regarded one of the greatest coaches around. :coffee:

[Özim]

Problem with Wenger is he never STFU, haven't read this and frankly can't be bothered but it's probably him looking at others and pointing the finger (isn't he always doing that?).

He should just focus on the our problems something he always managed to neglect, he likes to pretend a bit of BS spirit and another year of experiencing failure is enough to fix everything

It's not his job to police the game, it's his job to make the club successful, maybe he should concentrate on that for once.

He's lost a lot of credibility with the nonsense he's come out with in recent years IMO.

[Kano]

Even abromovich is moaning about this. OP, as always is looking for yet another excuses to bitch at the manager.

well of course, and that's the bottom line here. pointless rants about nothing more than an answer to a question.

there's a daily quota of frustration to get out there i think.

[Özim]

well of course, and that's the bottom line here. pointless rants about nothing more than an answer to a question.

there's a daily quota of frustration to get out there i think.
He seems to answer a whole lot of questions if you ask me, maybe he should do a bit less of that and work on his team and signings a bit more, you never know we might actually win something then!

The guy never shuts up, just look at his post match rants.....he doesn't need to be asked to complain about everyone else.

[budesonide]

Even abromovich is moaning about this. OP, as always is looking for yet another excuses to bitch at the manager.

And has Abromovich any grounds to complain?

No; it is just that he is not rich enough to pull off such a stunt and he has had plenty of time to infuse as much money into chelsea already to get them to a top level. Wanker (I mean Abramovich :o:

[Fist of Lehmann]

well of course, and that's the bottom line here. pointless rants about nothing more than an answer to a question.

there's a daily quota of sexual frustration to get out there i think.

You just called it bro.

[IBK]

I reckon this thread is a prime example of Wenger bashing. He is right. And the Citeh deal does concern him because of its implications. Citeh are a cancer, because not only can and do they outspend everyone else with no consequences, but they poison the market and de-stabilise other clubs while doing it. This issue is just taking the piss and it should be highlighted by as many people as possible.

[budesonide]

I reckon this thread is a prime example of Wenger bashing. He is right. And the Citeh deal does concern him because of its implications. Citeh are a cancer, because not only can and do they outspend everyone else with no consequences, but they poison the market and de-stabilise other clubs while doing it. This issue is just taking the piss and it should be highlighted by as many people as possible.

So do Real,Barca,Chelsea,Man U. My point is, I believe the market was that way (or headed that way) -- as far as AFC is concerned -- long before Man City got taken over.

And frankly, no one knows the details of the deal yet; let's hold fire and let the necessary regulators look into it or until the full details are known.

[IBK]

So do Real,Barca,Chelsea,Man U. My point is, I believe the market was that way (or headed that way) long before Man City got taken over.

And frankly, no one knows the details of the deal yet; let's hold fire and let the necessary regulators look into it or until the full details are known.

I disagree. Yes the other clubs you have mentioned have a similar effect - but they have also earnt their 'go to' status over time, rather than just buying it; and stockpiling players that they don;t even need.

As for the reality of the deal. If you really think £400M represents market value for naming rights, I suggest that you look at other deals and come back to me...This thing stinks - and its bloody obvious.

[budesonide]

I disagree. Yes the other clubs you have mentioned have a similar effect - but they have also earnt their 'go to' status over time, rather than just buying it; and stockpiling players that they don;t even need.
As for the reality of the deal. If you really think £400M represents market value for naming rights, I suggest that you look at other deals and come back to me...This thing stinks - and its bloody obvious.

chelsea certainly has.

i repeat, no one -- absolutely no one -- knows the full details of the deal.

[Özim]

I reckon this thread is a prime example of Wenger bashing. He is right. And the Citeh deal does concern him because of its implications. Citeh are a cancer, because not only can and do they outspend everyone else with no consequences, but they poison the market and de-stabilise other clubs while doing it. This issue is just taking the piss and it should be highlighted by as many people as possible.
Not disagreeing, but it's a way of life and you have to adapt to the situation at the end of the day.

We knew this stuff was going to happen, this reminds me of the stadium project in many ways. We used it to supposedly compete with the big boys and then rich owners bought up clubs, our reaction was to spend little and minimise investment in the team whilst overpaying unproven members of the squad.

You can play the victim or you can work on finding an answer.

[Darth Vela]

Well, if the reported figures are correct (theoretically we have no reason to assume they're right but journalists must have SOME source of information, right?) then it's either an astonishing coincidence that an organisation their owner has very close ties to has invested a crazy amount right before financial fair play comes in or it's an attempt to circumvent the new rules, I tend not to believe in coincidences when so much money is involved, people tend to get serious about that, so I think there's every reason to be suspicious.

[Niall_Quinn]

Man City have done precisely what FIFA claimed they wanted to stamp out, and they've sneaked it in before the regulations are in effect. If the major football authorities weren't utterly corrupt organisations from top to bottom I'd expect them to act on this as City have quite blatantly rigged their books by dumping insider money into them. This is why all lawyers should be killed. Every person with an ounce of common sense knows what's going on but the lawyers will squash that common sense and bind everything in technicalities, and they'll even sue for damages and win through weight of financing should any action be taken against them. Which it won't.

Wenger is 100% right in what he says but 100% wrong to say it. What's the point? Does he think the authorities are going to act? Does he think if he constantly moans about the shady scumbags at City they will turn over a new leaf? These guys are criminals hiding behind a business front, just like all the major oil and real estate operations in the world today. Wenger preaching to them will do precisely nothing and achieve precisely nothing.

Big business = big corruption in every industry, in all cases and in all times. You can't name a single major corporation that isn't a criminal operation if you look to the spirit of the law rather than the letter. That's why we have the letter of the law, to kill the spirit. I appreciate Wenger's concern and I even think he's genuine and not playing an angle, despite the fact sanctions against city would be very good for us. But it will never (ever) happen, because they have too much money - doesn't he comprehend this? We might get sanctioned if we make enough noise though, just as the whistleblower usually gets it up the arse by exposing the crook.

It would be better if he just said we'll beat them anyway, no matter what they get up to. And then he should sort out his own team to ensure that happens.

[LDG]

Zimm, even you say all Arsene needs to do is spend a little money, and improve the team, and that you're not calling for megabucks to be spent. And we all believe the same. He needs to spend some cash.

However, this isn't about AW spending money, or indeed his inadequacies on pitchside matters.

This is something spoiling our game, and if nothing else, he is saying this for the good of football, and more importantly, the good of Arsenal FC.

[budesonide]

There is every reason to be suspicious, no question about that.

But it appears, similar to how many are branded kneejerkers on here for such reactions, Wenger and many others are kneejerkers to a situation where info is scant.

But let's assume the Man City owners have some ties with their brand sponsor --- so what? Is it by default illegal?

There are reasons to be frustrated as a gooner right now --- but this is the least of my worries now. As I pointed earlier, the market was headed that way long before this -- at least as far as AFC was concerned.

[Niall_Quinn]

Big money was on our mind when we moved stadium. We've just been beaten to the punch. Big time. I'm not convinced our board wouldn't do exactly the same as City given the opportunity. We've seen enough now to know that football is a dirty business. I don't think there are any saints at large, especially not our lot with all their back room wrangling which is happening at the expense of the team and performances. Our lot seem to have as little regard for the game as City's mob, but for different reasons.

[Özim]

Zimm, even you say all Arsene needs to do is spend a little money, and improve the team, and that you're not calling for megabucks to be spent. And we all believe the same. He needs to spend some cash.

However, this isn't about AW spending money, or indeed his inadequacies on pitchside matters.

This is something spoiling our game, and if nothing else, he is saying this for the good of football, and more importantly, the good of Arsenal FC.
I don't disagree, but at the end of the day this will be looked at by the governing bodies and they'll make the decision. If they deem Ok nothing anyone else says will matter.

I don't see the point in speaking out, it doesn't really achieve anything. The issue I have is that he's always complaining about other clubs etc....this washes down his argument as everyone know he's looking to pick faults rather than occasionally picking up on major points.

The boy who cried wolf if you like.

[Darth Vela]

I don't disagree, but at the end of the day this will be looked at by the governing bodies and they'll make the decision. If they deem Ok nothing anyone else says will matter.

I don't see the point in speaking out, it doesn't really achieve anything. The issue I have is that he's always complaining about other clubs etc....this washes down his argument as everyone know he's looking to pick faults rather than occasionally picking up on major points.

The boy who cried wolf if you like.

Yeah, I think Wenger indulges the media far too much tbh. He should just tell them to bugger off as he knows they're simply following the trawler, despite the fact he's usually right and speaks sense on the subjects it never goes well for us.

[Özim]

Yeah, I think Wenger indulges the media far too much tbh. He should just tell them to bugger off as he knows they're simply following the trawler, despite the fact he's usually right and speaks sense on the subjects it never goes well for us.
Yup I agree, he won't speak about specific transfers for example until they're done.

He should use a similar policy when it comes to talking about other clubs, at least some of the time, just saying that he wants to focus on the club and his players not other clubs.

[budesonide]

'everyone thinks they've got the prettiest wife at home' --- that is his saying isn't it?

he thinks what he is doing is the right way; so do city,chelsea,barca,Real etc. --- it is upto the powers that be to decide.

what i want wenger to waste his time on is the organisation of his farking defence.

[Niall_Quinn]

'everyone thinks they've got the prettiest wife at home' --- that is his saying isn't it?

he thinks what he is doing is the right way; so do city,chelsea,barca,Real etc. --- it is upto the powers that be to decide.

what i want wenger to waste his time on is the organisation of his farking defence.

Very true, he should know that if you throw wives from trawlers the sardines will follow.

[budesonide]

lol

I would have no problems with wenger indulging himself this way if we were actually falling short of winning because we were well-coached on the pitch and not because of some amatuerish cock-ups that -- believe what you want - have nothing to do with market inflation. Because, ultimately, we trade our players in the same market for inflated sums.

He did not complain when he sold Ade and Toure for much much more than they were actually worth -- did he? Nor did he Re: Anelka etc. a long long time ago.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger is right.

Wenger is right to say it.

This is completely separate to the multitude of inadequacies in his management and approach to management.

[budesonide]

Wenger is right to say whatever the fuc*k he wants though, and even do as he pleases. So far he has not disaapointed. :smile:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is right.

Wenger is right to say it.

This is completely separate to the multitude of inadequacies in his management and approach to management.

Not bad, you got 50% right!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not bad, you got 50% right!

I make you 0% right.

But you're a good guy, so keep trying.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

This thread is a typical anti-Wengerite inspired hyperbolic shite. Just a few days ago there was a meeting set up by the Arsenal supporters trust who had meticulously researched the financial position of the club and concluded that until 2014 our finances are on a knife edge. Given this, why shouldn't Wenger come out and push for the transparent and full implementation of the FFP rules??...it is in the interests of this club that these rules are enforced properly. I find it incredible that rather than castigate a club that is owned and financed by an oil state for its unruly and unchecked spending and inflation of the market, Arsene is ridiculed and mocked for his rightful endeavour to draw attention to the threat to these nascent regulations.

This place is being overrun by some Arsenal fans that are so immoderate and knee jerk in their views and that have become such self-parodying muppets that I'm surprised they haven't self combusted in existensial angst from these years of trophy drought and frustration.

[budesonide]

Please show me where any evidence exists so far as to any wrong-doing on city's part; I beg of you.

You call other's knee-jerk? Yours and Wenger's reaction to City's deal is kneejerk. You have no proof of any misdeed except rumours and self-indulgent sanctimonious moral outrage.

That is equally disgusting as the so-called imaginary albeit warranted anti-wenger angst you allude to.

Whilst you are simmering, also consider what moral compass Wenger uses when he goes to poach barca's youth right before they have a chance to offer them professional contracts due to a loophole in the spanish laws. think about it.

[GP]

This thread is a typical anti-Wengerite inspired hyperbolic shite. Just a few days ago there was a meeting set up by the Arsenal supporters trust who had meticulously researched the financial position of the club and concluded that until 2014 our finances are on a knife edge. Given this, why shouldn't Wenger come out and push for the transparent and full implementation of the FFP rules??...it is in the interests of this club that these rules are enforced properly. I find it incredible that rather than castigate a club that is owned and financed by an oil state for its unruly and unchecked spending and inflation of the market, Arsene is ridiculed and mocked for his rightful endeavour to draw attention to the threat to these nascent regulations.

This place is being overrun by some Arsenal fans that are so immoderate and knee jerk in their views and that have become such self-parodying muppets that I'm surprised they haven't self combusted in existensial angst from these years of trophy drought and frustration.

Great post.

[AKBapologist]

This thread is a typical anti-Wengerite inspired hyperbolic shite. Just a few days ago there was a meeting set up by the Arsenal supporters trust who had meticulously researched the financial position of the club and concluded that until 2014 our finances are on a knife edge. Given this, why shouldn't Wenger come out and push for the transparent and full implementation of the FFP rules??...it is in the interests of this club that these rules are enforced properly. I find it incredible that rather than castigate a club that is owned and financed by an oil state for its unruly and unchecked spending and inflation of the market, Arsene is ridiculed and mocked for his rightful endeavour to draw attention to the threat to these nascent regulations.

This place is being overrun by some Arsenal fans that are so immoderate and knee jerk in their views and that have become such self-parodying muppets that I'm surprised they haven't self combusted in existensial angst from these years of trophy drought and frustration.:goodpost:

[budesonide]

Is any one going to provide proof as to where man City have done anything worng or broken any rules?

Or is this all knee-jerk?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Please show me where any evidence exists so far as to any wrong-doing on city's part; I beg of you.

You call other's knee-jerk? Yours and Wenger's reaction to City's deal is kneejerk. You have no proof of any misdeed except rumours and self-indulgent sanctimonious moral outrage.

That is equally disgusting as the so-called imaginary albeit warranted anti-wenger angst you allude to.

Whilst you are simmering, also consider what moral compass Wenger uses when he goes to poach barca's youth right before they have a chance to offer them professional contracts due to a loophole in the spanish laws. think about it.

I understand where you are coming from. If you have no business acumen whatsoever or any analytical ability, there is no evidence.

[AKBapologist]

I understand where you are coming from. If you have no business acumen whatsoever or any analytical ability, there is no evidence.
Harsh, but fair.

[budesonide]

I understand where you are coming from. If you have no business acumen whatsoever or any analytical ability, there is no evidence.


If you do have business acumen but a biased analytical ability there is vast unfavorable conspiracy theories/evidence to be gleaned. Because I assure you, City fans are sticking with the favorable ones.

[AKBapologist]

If you do have business acumen and but a biased analytical ability there is vast unfavorable conspiracy theories/evidence to be gleaned. Because I assure you, City fans are sticking to with the favorable ones.

So you think City being able to acquire a deal that's worth +20% more than Barcelona's deal from an enity that has yet to make a profit is an unfavourable conspiracy theory, one only the hacks (the managers and owners of the top clubs in Europe) and bitter fans openly talk about? One that UEFA is about to investigate, and one that appears set to define whether FFP is just a fuzzy guide that no one really follows?

:haha:

I think the phase "biased analytical ability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)" really applies to yourself mate.

[budesonide]

The said sponsor might be investing based on city's potential -- it is business. That is why we invested in a youth policy where untested kids are on huge salaries compared to anywhere else. :coffee:

I can tell having business acumen does not apply to you.

[AKBapologist]

The said sponsor might be investing based on city's potential -- it is business. That is why we invested in a youth policy where untested kids are on huge salaries compared to anywhere else. :coffee:

I can tell having business acumen does not apply to you.
http://files.sharenator.com/stupid_Stupid_people_things_and_stuff-s360x450-47644-580.jpg

[budesonide]

tosser

:rolleyes:

[AKBapologist]

tosser

:rolleyes:
Hahaha, in all seriousness. Your grasping at straws. City, a club pretty far down the world commercial value pecking order for a number of reasons, gets a commercial deal far more valuble than there status would normally allow. Wenger, and a whole bunch of other owners and managers cry foul. UFEA is investigating and your screaming... where's the evidence... Clearly Wenger is in the wrong... He has to be!


This place is being overrun by some Arsenal fans that are so immoderate and knee jerk in their views and that have become such self-parodying muppets that I'm surprised they haven't self combusted in existensial angst from these years of trophy drought and frustration.

SJW :bow:

[budesonide]

I could give a fark what other owners think. I can think for myself -- and no, not with red goggles or an arsenal hat on.

No one has said wenger is wrong -- he is being hypocritical and kneejerk.

The whole stadium project was a commercialization project -- he sees the club as a business. And that is where the sport is headed. And in all big businesses all commercial routes are exploited to gain an advantage over one's competitors. And that is what City is doing -- if it is shown to be illegal THEN FINE. It hasn't (yet)!


The example I gave up there is just one scenario where city can explain themselves away. And it is a pretty valid one. That the said sponsor sees it as a speculative investment which will prove cost effective based on City's potential and achievement in a short space of time, is a valid and viable commercial deal. I am sure it works for city fans alrite.

So you see, it is not out of the realm of the business world for the City deal to be in fact a sound one.

But then why consider that, when I could cry foul and spout moral outrage because it doesn't favor AFC. Sign of the times and all that.

[Mr.Singh]

You two need too shut the fuck up as well

[budesonide]

yes boss :tiphat:

[AKBapologist]

I could give a fark what other owners think. I can think for myself -- and no, not with red goggles or an arsenal hat on.

No one has said wenger is wrong -- he is being hypocritical and kneejerk.

The whole stadium project was a commercialiazation project -- he sees the club as a business. And that is where the sport is headed. And in all big businesses all commercial routes are exploited to gain an advantage over one's competitors. And that is what City is doing -- if it is shown to be illegal THEN FINE. It hasn't (yet)!


The example I gave up there is just one scenario where city can explain themselves away. And it is a pretty valid one. That the said sponsor sees it as a speculative investment which will prove cost effective based on City's potential and achievement in a short space of time, is a valid and viable commercial deal. I am sure it works for city fans alrite.

So you see, it is not out of the realm of the business world for the City deal to be in fact sound one.

But then why consider that, when I could cry foul and spout moral outrage because it doesn't favor AFC. Sign of the times and all that.
Mate, you are totally mixed up.
Even if City where on a rapid assent to the very sumit of world football, had a fanbase that showed exceptional growth, and had massive waiting lists to there 45k seater Etihad (lol) Stadium, they still wouldn't seem as attractive as clubs like Barca and Real. Hell, we have a higher pedigree, and would be worth WAAAAY more than city in terms of commercial value and brand recognition and all the things that count as far as these things are concerned..

This is not the same as building a stadium, City won't be worth 20% more than barca to any sane investor. This is not Wenger being hypercritical, and this is not something City will easily explain away if someone with a solid pair of balls decided to investigate. All but Wengers most blinkered critics I think would concede that he had a fair shout in this issue.

[budesonide]

Who gives a fu*ck.

It's the so-called sponsor's money -- they can invest in whichever club they farking want. That is the art of exploiting rules to you advantage in the business world.

That is where the sport is headed -- pure business. That is how wenger sees it -- as business. Big businesses are 'dirty'. That is the real world.

[AKBapologist]

Who gives a fu*ck.

It's the so-called sponsor's money -- they can invest in whichever club they farking want. That is the art of exploiting rules to you advantage in the business world.

That is where the sport is headed -- pure business. That is how wenger sees it -- as business. Big businesses are 'dirty'. That is the real world.
I would like to say "people like you who ignorantly drop there trousers to big businesses *because that's how the world works* are the reason institutions like News Corp etc etc exist" - but I won't.

You can't bitch about someone crying foul over some rule breaking, especially if it's in his interests to do so, and action is likely to be taken against it.

[Mr.Singh]

Both of you bitches go to sleep

[budesonide]

I would like to say "people like you who ignorantly drop there trousers to big businesses *because that's how the world works* are the reason institutions like News Corp etc etc exist" - but I won't.

You can't bitch about someone crying foul over some rule breaking, especially if it's in his interests to do so, and action is likely to be taken against it.

which rule has city broken?

in fact it is unlikely --- which is why in wenger's rant he spouted that a cap should be placed on how much sponsorship a club can get. That is farking bollocks.

and that is what make all of this outrage so desperate. It is not grounded in any reality.

[AKBapologist]

which rule has city broken?

in fact it is unlikely --- which is why in wenger's rant he spouted that a cap should be placed on how much sponsorship a club can get. That is farking bollocks.

and that is what make all of this outrage so desperate. It is not grounded in any reality.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/uefa-to-examine-abu-dhabi-ties-in-citys-163400m-sponsors-deal-2313112.html

However, detailed analysis of Uefa's 91-page Licensing and Fair Play regulations by The Independent reveals that the family relationships between City and its sponsor may fall foul of Uefa's "related party" test.

Sorry, but you are not grounded in any reality I'm afraid.

[Niall_Quinn]

Who gives a fu*ck.

It's the so-called sponsor's money -- they can invest in whichever club they farking want. That is the art of exploiting rules to you advantage in the business world.

That is where the sport is headed -- pure business. That is how wenger sees it -- as business. Big businesses are 'dirty'. That is the real world.

All true unfortunately. City have sneaked in before the regulations "slam" down so there's nothing anyone can do about it. Not unless somebody wants to run that "fit person" test, in which case they are well and truly fucked. Trouble is, I think the stupid cunts in authority think that test has something to do with being able to chase money as fast as possible, therefore the richer they are the fitter they are.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

All true unfortunately. City have sneaked in before the regulations "slam" down so there's nothing anyone can do about it. Not unless somebody wants to run that "fit person" test, in which case they are well and truly fucked. Trouble is, I think the stupid cunts in authority think that test has something to do with being able to chase money as fast as possible, therefore the richer they are the fitter they are.

When this thread started I think one of the main points is that AW should just keep his mouth shut.......and not try to come across as whiter than white, good point and there are times when Wenger acts like a spoilt brat especially when thinking that every ref has it in for us or that every penalty decision goes against us.........at those times I couldn't agree more but the man is also allowed to have an opinion and I think it was Zimm who mentioned that he shouldn't feel like he has to police every situation and just get on with the job at hand! this I also agree with as we do have problems that need our manager's immediate attention but I do also think that.........


the stupid cunts in authority

don't know how to police themselves let alone a business conglomerate the size of Citeh - World Cup bids.......etc so we are left with the likes of Wenger and SAF, Maureen to state a few home truths

However it still remains that there isn't much we can do about it as it is not just the size of one's account that allows them to pass 'the fitness test', it's their business acumen, whether it all above board or of a slightly shady nature that also allows them to lead the pack..........but as much as the likes of Wenger or Roman moan about being slighted they should be careful of throw stones in glasshouses as it does not also need to take a huge about of delving to find discrepancies in the majority of books.......

[budesonide]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/uefa-to-examine-abu-dhabi-ties-in-citys-163400m-sponsors-deal-2313112.html


Sorry, but you are not grounded in any reality I'm afraid.


Care to elaborate on how exactly city's sponsor falls short of that? Or is that just another newspaper hyperbole you have copied and posted.

Because there is no farking way ueafa can uphold such a ridiculous rule. Post that entire rule here and show me how city's deal breaks it.

City are not that stupid.

[budesonide]

When this thread started I think one of the main points is that AW should just keep his mouth shut.......and not try to come across as whiter than white, good point and there are times when Wenger acts like a spoilt brat especially when thinking that every ref has it in for us or that every penalty decision goes against us.........at those times I couldn't agree more but the man is also allowed to have an opinion and I think it was Zimm who mentioned that he shouldn't feel like he has to police every situation and just get on with the job at hand! this I also agree with as we do have problems that need our manager's immediate attention but I do also think that.........



don't know how to police themselves let alone a business conglomerate the size of Citeh - World Cup bids.......etc so we are left with the likes of Wenger and SAF, Maureen to state a few home truths

However it still remains that there isn't much we can do about it as it is not just the size of one's account that allows them to pass 'the fitness test', it's their business acumen, whether it all above board or of a slightly shady nature that also allows them to lead the pack..........but as much as the likes of Wenger or Roman moan about being slighted they should be careful of throw stones in glasshouses as it does not also need to take a huge about of delving to find discrepancies in the majority of books.......

good
post jsao


I still maintain all of this to be knee-jerk reaction. Reality is kicking in for most.

[Kano]

When this thread started I think one of the main points is that AW should just keep his mouth shut.......and not try to come across as whiter than white, good point and there are times when Wenger acts like a spoilt brat especially when thinking that every ref has it in for us or that every penalty decision goes against us.........at those times I couldn't agree more but the man is also allowed to have an opinion and I think it was Zimm who mentioned that he shouldn't feel like he has to police every situation and just get on with the job at hand! this I also agree with as we do have problems that need our manager's immediate attention but I do also think that.........



don't know how to police themselves let alone a business conglomerate the size of Citeh - World Cup bids.......etc so we are left with the likes of Wenger and SAF, Maureen to state a few home truths

However it still remains that there isn't much we can do about it as it is not just the size of one's account that allows them to pass 'the fitness test', it's their business acumen, whether it all above board or of a slightly shady nature that also allows them to lead the pack..........but as much as the likes of Wenger or Roman moan about being slighted they should be careful of throw stones in glasshouses as it does not also need to take a huge about of delving to find discrepancies in the majority of books.......

passing comment on something or someone else doesn't distract you from the task at hand, it's not like he was asked to write a white paper on the subject and present it to the industry.

you are right that no one has the perfect, whiter-than-white history but in that regard it would mean no-one would ever be in a position to pass any sort of comment on anyone else. obviously that sort of world would be crazy; so whenever you talk about someone else in a negative light, then your pass transgressions are also pulled out of the woodwork. absolutlely everyone will put on a clean front - that they hold the moral and intelligent high ground; something called self belief and confidence. without that, then nothing would ever be achieved as everything would be eternally debated with no real conviction to push through to a final solution.

obviously no one knows the details of man city's recent deal but given the high level of suspicision surrounding it from many within the game, then there is a more than enough reason to debate the details. much like people moan that a football forum is there to discuss all the bollocks fed to us by the media, players and managers then wenger is opening this out on a wider scale, to the 'industry forum'. nothing more than a point of view or opinion thrown out to the ether.

there are plenty of other people that have plenty to say about wengers methods in the transfer markets (with regards to kids etc) so as there is no whitewash to prevent them from doing so, then wenger should feel free to do the same on subjects that worry or interest him. i'm sure he's intelligent enough not to worry about negative comments toward him or to feel those comments should be stopped either.

[Özim]

passing comment on something or someone else doesn't distract you from the task at hand, it's not like he was asked to write a white paper on the subject and present it to the industry.

Yeah come on this isn't a one off, he's constantly doing this and answering supposed questions.

Personally don't think he's focussed enough on the job he needs to be doing, which is managing players, not player negotiations/other clubs finances/disciplinary records etc....

From his comments about us and what we do and don't need, seems to me he's not been watching or focussing on his own team/squad anywhere near enough. The lack of signings when pre-season has already started is just another indicator.

To other clubs he's probably like that irritating neighbour that sticks his nose in where it's not wanted (and when it doesn't directly involve him), the guy who complains about everything, sure he might have a point occasionally but not all the time.

[Kano]

Yeah come on this isn't a one off, he's constantly doing this and answering supposed questions.

Personally don't think he's focussed enough on the job he needs to be doing, which is managing players, not player negotiations/other clubs finances/disciplinary records etc....

From his comments about us and what we do and don't need, seems to me he's not been watching or focussing on his own team/squad anywhere near enough. The lack of signings when pre-season has already started is just another indicator.

To other clubs he's probably like that irritating neighbour that sticks his nose in where it's not wanted (and when it doesn't directly involve him), the guy who complains about everything, sure he might have a point occasionally but not all the time.

so what if he passes comments. he's at a press conference most likely, a position where comment is meant to be passed, so how is that distraction. it's not like he's in the middle of a phone call to an agent and he hangs up to sit down with a journo. it's lunacy to say it takes up a disproportionate amount of his time.

there is no way you can suggest that talking is a distraction from other duties. i think every single person at the club would state he is one of the hardest working guys there, if not THE hardest.

and who cares what other clubs think? people can pass comment on us, as he can on them, there are no restrictions and until there are, then there is no need to stop.

[Özim]

so what if he passes comments. he's at a press conference most likely, a position where comment is meant to be passed, so how is that distraction. it's not like he's in the middle of a phone call to an agent and he hangs up to sit down with a journo. it's lunacy to say it takes up a disproportionate amount of his time.

there is no way you can suggest that talking is a distraction from other duties. i think every single person at the club would state he is one of the hardest working guys there, if not THE hardest.

and who cares what other clubs think? people can pass comment on us, as he can on them, there are no restrictions and until there are, then there is no need to stop.
Too focussed on other clubs and external factors IMO, where are the changes to the personnel we needed, where are the defensive coaches we needed?

He's got himself convinced the group of players he has (many of whom want to leave) is good enough and thus doesn't seem to bothered about it.

Does he work hard, probably yes (but who wouldn't for 6 million a year?), is he doing as good a job as he can....no.

[Kano]

sure thats another thread.

i'm sure you agree then that making a comment at a press conference or in passing to a journalist isn't a distraction from his official day to day duties.

[AKBapologist]

SAF, Mourinho, even AVB have made comments about arsenal in response to reporter questions. Seems you can only speak your mind when you have something bad to say about Wenger.

Press conferences believe it or not are part of his job. And like it or not, some of the things he says about the game are 100% spot on. If your just sick and tired of listening to his voice then fuck off. No ones forcing you to listen and read his comments.


Care to elaborate on how exactly city's sponsor falls short of that? Or is that just another newspaper hyperbole you have copied and posted.
Your like some deranged religious nut or some mental global warming denier, forever shifting the burden of proof, forever clinging on to the vast global conspiracy, unable to back down, concede or accept that your world view may be flawed. What's the point elaborating? I COULD go through the 91 page rule document and highlight the rule and a few others they may be breaking for you, but then you'd just say i'm interpretati it wrong or some other sort of bullshit.

More annoying still, your purporting something some sort of equivalence between City's ability to, *as if by magic* acquiring BY FAR THE LARGEST SPONSORSHIP DEAL IN WORLD SPORT, with something Arsenal, or any other club does all the time. There is no equivalence, the mansour (sp) family have used a entity they own to inject funds into the club. Depending on the details, this could probably have inland revenue implications tbh.

But what grates the most is that your defending City, the bastion of a model I ironically suggest we should adopt, and which you ignorantly suggest we don't need; only because you hate the manager. If you had any integrity or intelligence, you'd understand just how destructive this type of cash injection could be under the frame work of the FFP. If we intend to continue a competitive sustainable model and you'd be just as pissed off as wenger is.

[budesonide]

SAF, Mourinho, even AVB have made comments about arsenal in response to reporter questions. Seems you can only speak your mind when you have something bad to say about Wenger.

Press conferences believe it or not are part of his job. And like it or not, some of the things he says about the game are 100% spot on. If your just sick and tired of listening to his voice then fuck off. No ones forcing you to listen and read his comments.


Your like some deranged religious nut or some mental global warming denier, forever shifting the burden of proof, forever clinging on to the vast global conspiracy, unable to back down, concede or accept that your world view may be flawed. What's the point elaborating? I COULD go through the 91 page rule document and highlight the rule and a few others they may be breaking for you, but then you'd just say i'm interpretati it wrong or some other sort of bullshit.

More annoying still, your purporting something some sort of equivalence between City's ability to, *as if by magic* acquiring BY FAR THE LARGEST SPONSORSHIP DEAL IN WORLD SPORT, with something Arsenal, or any other club does all the time. There is no equivalence, the mansour (sp) family have used a entity they own to inject funds into the club. Depending on the details, this could probably have inland revenue implications tbh.

But what grates the most is that your defending City, the bastion of a model I ironically suggest we should adopt, and which you ignorantly suggest we don't need; only because you hate the manager. If you had any integrity or intelligence, you'd understand just how destructive this type of cash injection could be under the frame work of the FFP. If we intend to continue a competitive sustainable model and you'd be just as pissed off as wenger is.

Deleted

[GP]

i wonder why i bother :rolleyes:

So do I.

[IBK]

good
post jsao


I still maintain all of this to be knee-jerk reaction. Reality is kicking in for most.

As I see it, this isn't a debate about 'reality'. We can all see the reality of destructive financial doping. Its a debate about whether it should be allowed to run unrestricted through the game.

And that isn't even an argument about legality - for the purposes of what we are debating, legality is irrelevant. I am sure that the deal's been done with legal advice - and that there are legal aruments that will probably end up sanctioning this 'deal'. But that too is irrelevant.

No - it is a matter of principle. You say effectively that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But as Terry(?) says if you take this line, then basically nobody could ever make a negative comment about anyone else. its a bit ridiculous.

Sure Citeh might be described as only the latest incarnation of a trend that's existed in football for a long time - but that doesn;t exonerate them. What people are objecting to is that Mansour and Co have now taken pure financial doping to an extreme level. One that is unprecedented in terms of the damage it wreaks elsewhere.

You want to defend that? Well you are entitled to do so, but I would suggest that you are no real lover of the game.

[budesonide]

As I see it, this isn't a debate about 'reality'. We can all see the reality of destructive financial doping. Its a debate about whether it should be allowed to run unrestricted through the game.

And that isn't even an argument about legality - for the purposes of what we are debating, legality is irrelevant. I am sure that the deal's been done with legal advice - and that there are legal aruments that will probably end up sanctioning this 'deal'. But that too is irrelevant.

No - it is a matter of principle. You say effectively that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But as Terry(?) says if you take this line, then basically nobody could ever make a negative comment about anyone else. its a bit ridiculous.

Sure Citeh might be described as only the latest incarnation of a trend that's existed in football for a long time - but that doesn;t exonerate them. What people are objecting to is that Mansour and Co have now taken pure financial doping to an extreme level. One that is unprecedented in terms of the damage it wreaks elsewhere.

You want to defend that? Well you are entitled to do so, but I would suggest that you are no real lover of the game.


I am not defending city. What I have been arguing is that the reaction to their deal is knee-jerk and not grounded in any objective reality. Total over-reaction.

I love the game -- and as I have said time and time again in this thread, the game is headed in a purely commercial direction. Wenger is a strong proponent of the fact that clubs should be run as a sensible business venture -- but business nonetheless. He sees AFC as a business -- and we are running a business model of our choosing.

What City are doing is basically employing a cheeky pure business strategy. And until we know the full details of it no one has the moral right to castigate them for some arbitrary flouting of contraventions.

Where does one draw the line? That is my point?

The FFP rules is actually quite a stupid idea, frankly,in my opinion. Idealistic but impractical.

[AKBapologist]

What City are doing is basically employing a cheeky pure business strategy.
How old are you?

[Japan Shaking All Over]

As I see it, this isn't a debate about 'reality'. We can all see the reality of destructive financial doping. Its a debate about whether it should be allowed to run unrestricted through the game.

And that isn't even an argument about legality - for the purposes of what we are debating, legality is irrelevant. I am sure that the deal's been done with legal advice - and that there are legal aruments that will probably end up sanctioning this 'deal'. But that too is irrelevant.

No - it is a matter of principle. You say effectively that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But as Terry(?) says if you take this line, then basically nobody could ever make a negative comment about anyone else. its a bit ridiculous.

Sure Citeh might be described as only the latest incarnation of a trend that's existed in football for a long time - but that doesn;t exonerate them. What people are objecting to is that Mansour and Co have now taken pure financial doping to an extreme level. One that is unprecedented in terms of the damage it wreaks elsewhere.

You want to defend that? Well you are entitled to do so, but I would suggest that you are no real lover of the game.

My arguement is that Wenger has all the right in the world to say whatever he wants, he is in a position where people are eager to hear his views, this extends to thoughts about a game just played, although there are times especially afyer a game just played

the way that I see it Citeh are taking things to a higher level and their financial clout is allowing them to do so, whether this is through legal or shady loopholes I dont know and TBH cant afford to give a fuck cos there aint jack shit I can do about it, so we are lefy with Wenger to say whats on most peoples minds, to do so at a press conference where he wad probably asked 1000 and 1 questions but only the juiciest answers were reported
those same answers piss of a few Mancs, bothered? couldnt care less!
more worried about what goes down on the pitch, which is where Wengers focus should always return to once he gets the bee out of his bonnet

but I have no belief in the piwers that be. . . which is why the odd AW/SAF rant sometimes feels like a shout for the masses

[IBK]

I am not defending city. What I have been arguing is that the reaction to their deal is knee-jerk and not grounded in any objective reality. Total over-reaction.

I love the game -- and as I have said time and time again in this thread, the game is headed in a purely commercial direction. Wenger is a strong proponent of the fact that clubs should be run as a sensible business venture -- but business nonetheless. He sees AFC as a business -- and we are running a business model of our choosing.

What City are doing is basically employing a cheeky pure business strategy. And until we know the full details of it no one has the moral right to castigate them for some arbitrary flouting of contraventions.

Where does one draw the line? That is my point?

The FFP rules is actually quite a stupid idea, frankly,in my opinion. Idealistic but impractical.

I think you are contradicting yourself. Defending Citeh is precisely what you are doing - in an 'innocent until proven guilty' kind of way. Yet Citeh aren't 'innocent' by any means. They are indulging in unprecedented financial doping - and their unprecedented naming rights deal -- whether strictly within the rules or not, is another example of this process.

Then you say that you love the game, but it is moving in a strictly commercial direction. Do you love football being strictly commercial - most fans don't.

Drawing the line is precisely what this is all about. Noone is trying to argue that AFC is not run on a commercial basis. least of all AW who believes in self sustainability. The farcical thing is the suggestion that Citeh is being run commercially. That couldn't be further from the truth.

What Wenger FIFA are saying is that there should be a correlation between spending and income. You may think the rules are stupid - and thenecessary need for compromise has made them a bit toothless, but I cannot fault the ideal.

[Joker]

Wenger being pretentious again about Mancini's comments RE: Nasri. I saw the interview with Mancini, and IMO I don't think he said anything out of order, certainly not in anyway near as disrespectful as Xavi, Iniesta et al's comments about Cesc. Moreover, if it's disrespectful to talk about Nasri, I put it to ******* that it's also disrespectul to assume that another club's sponsorship deal attempts to subvert the financial fair play laws, when he has no evidence of this. Practise what you preach Wenger, if you don't want to be hated by the football world.

[Kano]

jesus christ. wenger defending Arsenal again???

what a dick

[Joker]

It's not the fact he's defending Arsenal that's a problem. It's him picking unnecessary fights with Man City that is jarring.

[GP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp5uB2q1Pi0&feature=related

[Kano]

It's not the fact he's defending Arsenal that's a problem. It's him picking unnecessary fights with Man City that is jarring.

look, it's simple. someone talks about a player under contract who the manager has only recently said he wants to keep, then expect a reaction.

if mancini or the dicks at city are upset about his comments to do with anything about their club, then man up and speak or just shut up. everyone talks about everyone else and most definitely every single manager will react to another team talking about their player

[Joker]

He's right.

And he's protecting our club. We should be grateful.

The FFP rules are there to promote healthy competition, not only in business, but in football as well. Yes, we may exploit loopholes in a business sense, and I have no problem with that. It's business afterall.

City are not a business. The owners are not in it to profit, they are only in it to show off. If they are not accountable, or don't play by the same rules as everybody else, then it's all pointless.

There will always be winners and losers in sport and in busniess, that's the way it works. The best win through in both, and that is down to good management in both. Even if it's like the glazers at utd. It's business.

City are not a business, and that is why FFP needs to come in. Otherwise it will ruin the sport.

But in that case we really do not have any right to act sanctimonious with respect to Man City. Their owners may want to engage in conspicious consumption, and to show off their wealth, but why is that more detrimental to football on the whole compared to a club that is run purely as a profit maximising private enterprise? I don't support City's way of running a football club, but I don't agree with the way our board members are more concerned with the value of their shares and property deals than they are with the on-field success of the club.

This is why I accuse Wenger of hypocricy. If he spoke out against greed in football as a general point, and its rampant commercialisation and marketisation, I would applaud him. However, he only seems opposed to City precisely because they are not operating as a normal business, with their sugar daddy ownership. Wenger is ultimately a free market fundamentalist, so in his opinion all football clubs should be let loose in the jungle of the free market, with no protection being afforded to any clubs, whether that's through government intervention to save the smaller clubs or extrovert businessmen buying clubs and then using their political links to benefit them.

This is why Wenger is not opposed to big clubs poaching promising youngsters from smaller clubs, preventing them from making a healthy return on these players or ever having the chance of progressing as clubs. Wenger is fine with that, because in a free market, no protection is afforded to the weakest. This is why he's a hypocrite. He thinks football should be treated as a private business, but is angry when the natural tendencies of business towards cronyism, corruption and monopolisation takes place.

[Joker]

In any case, there are many examples of Wenger publically expressing interest in footballers:

http://www.football.co.uk/arsenal/wenger_admits_koscielny_interest_313201.shtml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/8277503/Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-admits-interest-in-signing-Southampton-winger-Alex-Oxlade-Chamberlain.html

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/england/71356/default.aspx

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/arsenal-boss-wenger-admits-interest-real-madrid-striker-benzema-1654881

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1204943/Wenger-reveals-I-want-Fulham-defender-Hangeland-replace-Everton-bound-Senderos.html

[Kano]

obsession wouldn't really cover it for you would it?

[Joker]

obsession wouldn't really cover it for you would it?

I'm not obsessed, you don't have to look hard to find these public statements from Wenger expressing interest in players. Here's a few more:

http://www.tribalfootball.com/arsenal-boss-wenger-admits-interest-blackburn-defender-jones-812551

http://www.supersport.com/football/article.aspx?Id=367804

[Kano]

he does anything and you are all over it

so what if he talks about other players, everyone does and if they have a problem speak up

football is full of hypocrisy, and who are the biggest of all?

the fans

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I would prefer him to say something than not.........even if it is against something he has been guilty of doing himself in the past ala above examples.

he may be acting in a slightly hypocritical way but he gets my support because he is doing so with the good of our team at heart

I think he is sending more of a message to Nasri rather than a direct swipe at Citeh although there are elements of that about as well.

He has stated that he expects Nasri ti stay and is protecting his brood......there are a lot of mind games involved in both Nasris and Cescs stories and Wenger is not bad at plying these games, in TBH I think he enjoys it a bit

there are quite a few sticks lying around that we can bash Wenger over the head with, lets leave this one on the ground, if Citeh want to pick it up and have a go........like Ive said before let them bring it on, got nothing to fear on this side

[Sirjackofwilshere]

I would prefer him to say something than not.........even if it is against something he has been guilty of doing himself in the past ala above examples.

he may be acting in a slightly hypocritical way but he gets my support because he is doing so with the good of our team at heart

I think he is sending more of a message to Nasri rather than a direct swipe at Citeh although there are elements of that about as well.

He has stated that he expects Nasri ti stay and is protecting his brood......there are a lot of mind games involved in both Nasris and Cescs stories and Wenger is not bad at plying these games, in TBH I think he enjoys it a bit

there are quite a few sticks lying around that we can bash Wenger over the head with, lets leave this one on the ground, if Citeh want to pick it up and have a go........like Ive said before let them bring it on, got nothing to fear on this side

:gp:

[Xhaka Can’t]

In any case, there are many examples of Wenger publically expressing interest in footballers:

http://www.football.co.uk/arsenal/wenger_admits_koscielny_interest_313201.shtml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/8277503/Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-admits-interest-in-signing-Southampton-winger-Alex-Oxlade-Chamberlain.html

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/england/71356/default.aspx

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/arsenal-boss-wenger-admits-interest-real-madrid-striker-benzema-1654881

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1204943/Wenger-reveals-I-want-Fulham-defender-Hangeland-replace-Everton-bound-Senderos.html

You are screwed in the head if you think that is the same thing. I want a change of Manager - I've made no secret of that, but it doesn't mean I have to disagree with everything he says or does.

He was spot on about City, the only arguement would be on whether you think he was right to say it - many are glad he has. And he is spot on about Mancini.

[Joker]

Mancini responds:


"I said only that Nasri, (Sergio) Aguero are two good players and I said also that Nasri is under contract with Arsenal," said Mancini. "I don't know why he's upset, but only this.

"Because the question was about some good players, I say that like this. I said also that Nasri is under contract with Arsenal, it's difficult. Only this."

I don't think he meant any disrespect, and he explicitly stated at the start of the interview that Nasri was under contract with Arsenal. Wenger just took the SSN reporter's description of Mancini's comments at face value, when he should have listened to them himself. To be fair the wanker Dharmesh Set deserves blame as well, because he misrepresented Mancini's remarks to get a reaction from Wenger. Wenger himself is to blame as well though, for (again) jumping to conclusions unnecessarily.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't believe Mancini said anything "out of order" and disrespectful as Wenger suggested. Certainly not on the Harry Redknapp level of talking about other players. Wenger is just feeling the strain me thinks.

I like Mancini tbh, one of the more likeable managers in the league.

[Niall_Quinn]

Shame Wenger can't shut his fucking pie hole for 5 minutes and scribble a note to the Arsenal fans letting us know what his intentions for the club are. Are we really going into a new season with no defence? That would be interesting to hear, either way, rather than this constant sniping about Man City and Chelsea. Okay so a lot of the time he has a point, but points in the media don't count in the final league standings.

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENE WENGER has urged football bosses to crack down on illegal approaches to players as he fights to keep Samir Nasri at Arsenal.

The Frenchman is furious with Manchester City boss Roberto Mancini after he publicly admitted his desire to sign Nasri this summer.

Nasri, with only a year left on his contract, has told team-mates he will definitely not sign a new deal at the Emirates.

Asked if he thought the midfielder had been tapped up by City, Wenger said: "I would like to return the question to you. What do you think?

"We live in a realistic world. I do not want to assess what I cannot prove.

"I know how things happen. It doesn't necessarily go through the player or the agent but I think it is a rule that has to be reviewed. It's not really respected."

Nasri, who played in the second half of Arsenal's 2-1 win in Cologne on Saturday, is a £20million target for City.

City could also find themselves in hot water with the FA over Luka Modric, with Spurs also considering a complaint as White Hart Lane officials believes their star player may have been the subject of an illegal approach.

Wenger, meanwhile, is under fire as £11m Lille ace Gervinho is his only major signing so far this summer.

But the Gunners boss insists he will not be forced into bringing in players for the sake of it.

Asked whether he will make more major signings, he said: "It's not the number of players, it's the quality."

Arsenal will remain in Germany on a training camp until Wednesday, while skipper Cesc Fabregas is home alone in London with a hip problem.

Barcelona vice-president Josep Bartomeu is set to return once again to the capital this weekend in the hope of completing a deal for the World Cup winner.

But the Spaniards are only offering around £35m, which falls some way short of Arsenal's £40m valuation.

If Fabregas does go, Wenger is set to bid for Valencia's Juan Mata and Villarreal's Santi Cazorla.


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3712043/Arsene-Wenger-in-a-rage-at-tap-ups.html#ixzz1T7SjQXZh

It'd be nice for us to make any approach, illegal or otherwise for players.

Also i see hes hiding behind the "not buying for the sake of it" BS again. :doh:

Just fuck off

[Özim]

Also i see hes hiding behind the "not buying for the sake of it" BS again. :doh:

Just fuck off
Yeah sick of this BS, if he can't find better quality players then there's something wrong with him!

[Cripps_orig]

Worst manager in Arsenal history?

Hes getting there

[Özim]

It amazes me he can't think of any original material to be honest, for 6 years he's been using the same excuses, the same lines, the same nonsense, you'd think he'd be clever enough to change things a bit rather than re-hashing the same sh*t over and over again making himself look ridiculous in the process.

Why bother interviewing Wenger these days, just pick out any quotes from the last 6 years and they'll pretty much be the same, does he ever have anything interesting to say anymore?

[Marc Overmars]

"It's not the number of players, it's the quality."

:rolleyes:

No one is advocating buying for the sake of it. It's these kind of classic Wenger words that make me fear come the end of the window when we are inevitably left underwhelmed, he will spout some shite about "the quality not being there".

Lets be honest as well, he's not been the most effective judge of quality either otherwise he wouldn't have half the problems that are staring him in the face with his team.

[selassie]

:rolleyes:

No one is advocating buying for the sake of it. It's these kind of classic Wenger words that make me fear come the end of the window when we are inevitably left underwhelmed, he will spout some shite about "the quality not being there".

Lets be honest as well, he's not been the most effective judge of quality either otherwise he wouldn't have half the problems that are staring him in the face with his team.

:good:

This, Arsene does come out with some classics, so does Gazidis mind.

Arsene talks about the squad as if it doesn't need improving, it's nuts TBH.

Can he really not find a better quality Centre Half than Kos, Djourou or Squillaci, I mean really???

[Cripps_orig]

Arsène Wenger hopes Gervinho will prove to be a bargain.

The Arsenal striker made an impressive debut at Cologne on Saturday, scoring twice and looking dangerous before being forced off with a minor injury on the half-hour.

Newspapers have suggested the fee for the former Lille frontman was around £10 million, much less than many of the other strikers moving this summer. Whatever the figure, the manager feels his new acquisition is value for money.

“I hope [he’ll be a bargain],” said Wenger. “When you see all the fees around you become dizzy. We do what we want and we look first at the quality of the player and after if we have the money we spend it. In this case he wanted to join us. He had only one year on his contract so it was a good opportunity for us.”

Meanwhile, even though it was ‘only’ a pre-season friendly, the manager believes his brace on Saturday will have a positive effect as Gervinho bids to adapt.

“If, as a striker, you go six weeks without a goal you raise questions,” said Wenger. “But now it’s out of the way.

“You could see how quick he is to get behind defenders. He has qualities that are always very interesting for a team like us who have a lot of other players that go behind defenders at the right moments.”

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-gervinho-saved-us-from-dizzy-prices

Does he even watch us play? We have hardly anyone who gets in behind.

Also the cunt thinks he should be praised for not spending big money and getting a bargain like Gervinho.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-gervinho-saved-us-from-dizzy-prices

Does he even watch us play? We have hardly anyone who gets in behind.

Also the cunt thinks he should be praised for not spending big money and getting a bargain like Gervinho.

Here we go again talking in the media before the player has proven himself and i don't mean in one meaningless game, i mean in a whole season or 2.

Its good to big your players up but AW should wait till it pays off.

[Joker]

Wenger has spoken so much BS this summer it's amazing. He always acts as if the fans are impatient and irrational, demanding that we spend £100M on Messi when in reality all we want is for him to realise the weaknesses in the squad, and replenish the squad with top quality players in those weak spots. That doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, and yet Wenger keeps behaving as if every half decent player in the world is wanted by Man City and would cost a large sum. That is simply BS.

Moreover, if he's honestly only going to sign one more defender, then we can right off our chances of maintaining our top 4 place next season tbh. Our squad is so weak at the moment, that if a couple of our top players get injured, we're in deep trouble. We saw that last season when we had to rely on the reserve turds in the FA Cup, we've already seen it this pre-season in the woeful second half performance against Cologne, and we'll see it next season whenever garbage like Chamakh, Rosicky, Arshavin are starting matches for us.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger has spoken so much BS this summer it's amazing. He always acts as if the fans are impatient and irrational, demanding that we spend £100M on Messi when in reality all we want is for him to realise the weaknesses in the squad, and replenish the squad with top quality players in those weak spots. That doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, and yet Wenger keeps behaving as if every half decent player in the world is wanted by Man City and would cost a large sum. That is simply BS.

Moreover, if he's honestly only going to sign one more defender, then we can right off our chances of maintaining our top 4 place next season tbh. Our squad is so weak at the moment, that if a couple of our top players get injured, we're in deep trouble. We saw that last season when we had to rely on the reserve turds in the FA Cup, we've already seen it this pre-season in the woeful second half performance against Cologne, and we'll see it next season whenever garbage like Chamakh, Rosicky, Arshavin are starting matches for us.

Problem is what can you do about it but support AFC at the end of the day. Whi knows what to belive anymore it seems BS comes from everyone who has a high posistion in the club.

End of the day AW is meeting his employers targets and untill they st new ones for him nothing will change. No matter how many people say he is under pressure etc.

we need a few more players a few quality ones and a couple world class ones as people say to get the fans talking.

It would be nice to see AW do something unexpected for once instead of glorfy a sqaud that is no good.

he himself said we'd be weaker if we lost Cesc and Samir, the man clearly is not silly thats for show he knows whats needed to be done.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Problem is what can you do about it but support AFC at the end of the day. Whi knows what to belive anymore it seems BS comes from everyone who has a high posistion in the club.

End of the day AW is meeting his employers targets and untill they st new ones for him nothing will change. No matter how many people say he is under pressure etc.

we need a few more players a few quality ones and a couple world class ones as people say to get the fans talking.

It would be nice to see AW do something unexpected for once instead of glorfy a sqaud that is no good.

he himself said we'd be weaker if we lost Cesc and Samir, the man clearly is not silly thats for show he knows whats needed to be done.

but if he did that it would sign GW's death sentence as well as leave Letters and the other Mods without a job as we would all be happy and content thus making this website a far less attractive place to visit


Seriously tho I think Wenger does have somewhat of a clue he just likes us doing a 'Sharon Stone' - showing us the pun'tang but not letting us get close enough to touch, just yet!

[KSE Comedy Club]

It really is starting to get a bit worrying now.

We ended the season needing around 4-5 new players, players with experience who could supplement the team, jump straight in and do a job.

So far we have 1 and no real signs that anymore will be added. Instead AW is fucking about trying to get Nasri to stay and taking a huge gamble letting him run down his contract instead of selling him and getting in someone else who wants to be here!!

It is sheer lunacy if Arsene genuinely believes that we have enough. Its things like this that make him look a complete and utter fool.
I know Letters finds it disrespectful and uncalled for but seriously?!?!

wtf else are people supposed to think of someone who says stuff like this and refuses to administer change when it is needed?

We missed out on that Alvarez chap, Wenger clearly identified him as a player in a position that we needed. Has anyone else been lined up to replace that target? Its seems not, absolutely fuck all so far. Its just not good enough for a top club and is actually completely unproffesional.

I just dont see how anyone can defend him anymore, I really cant.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It really is starting to get a bit worrying now.

We ended the season needing around 4-5 new players, players with experience who could supplement the team, jump straight in and do a job.

So far we have 1 and no real signs that anymore will be added. Instead AW is fucking about trying to get Nasri to stay and taking a huge gamble letting him run down his contract instead of selling him and getting in someone else who wants to be here!!

It is sheer lunacy if Arsene genuinely believes that we have enough. Its things like this that make him look a complete and utter fool.
I know Letters finds it disrespectful and uncalled for but seriously?!?!

wtf else are people supposed to think of someone who says stuff like this and refuses to administer change when it is needed?

We missed out on that Alvarez chap, Wenger clearly identified him as a player in a position that we needed. Has anyone else been lined up to replace that target? Its seems not, absolutely fuck all so far. Its just not good enough for a top club and is actually completely unproffesional.

I just dont see how anyone can defend him anymore, I really cant.


No what we needed was a manager who woke up and saw there was a big problem. We could have Bought 5 Messi's and still finshed out the top 4 tbh. It don't matter who we buy until the AW and board and player Attitude of not being bothered changes. Also we need strong mentality Until AW works at that nothing will change.

I highly doubt aw eveb believes some of the shit that comes out of his mouth, but he is keeping the board happy and that is all that matters.

If Nasri gets sold over his head, we will see a diffrent side to AW real soon.

[Kano]

highly doubt aw eveb believes some of the shit that comes out of his mouth, but he is keeping the board happy and that is all that matters.

of course he doesn't yet still too many people hook into his words even though he has been so consistent, ever since he came here. he gives politician answers and gives away as little as possible to the press.

[Özim]

Whether he tells the truth or not is neither here nor there, the issue is he doesn't do the necessary in the transfer market and pampers his players way too much.

Actions speak louder than words and his actions basically support the fact he doesn't think we need much, after all he's always signings unknowns from the French league, unlike some of the other managers he doesn't seem capable of identifying problems and addressing them.

Frankly there's no defence for the sort of neglect he's been guilty of, the average man can see the issues and yet he doesn't seem to be able to, is that really all we can get for a 6 million a year salary?

He's had more than enough chances now to solve the problems, I'm afraid he hasn't and just doesn't cut the mustard anymore, it's only a money motivated board keeping him in the job...if they were truly interested in success and the football he'd have been gone by now.

It's a shame it's come to this to be honest, but IMO he's completely overshadowed what he achieved in the early days with the last 6 years.

[Letters]

I'm not sure we need as many players as was suggested above but we did need 1 or 2 more serious signings. The squad needs it. The fans need it.
It has gone worryingly quiet and although I think Gervinho is looking like a decent signing we need more.
I don't think we're that far away in terms of ability, it's organisation and mentality which are the bigger problems and new signings won't fix that.
If we continue to drop points in silly ways this season and drop off at crunch time then it'll be desperately disappointing.
I do think we need to look at other options manager-wise if so but if people think that Wenger is this bumbling idiot and that when he leaves all our problems will be solved and we'll be great again then I think they'll get a wakeup call when it happens.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm not sure we need as many players as was suggested above but we did need 1 or 2 more serious signings. The squad needs it. The fans need it.
It has gone worryingly quiet and although I think Gervinho is looking like a decent signing we need more.
I don't think we're that far away in terms of ability, it's organisation and mentality which are the bigger problems and new signings won't fix that.

We needed that many to replace the ones that we need to get shot of. Bendy, Denilson, Eboue, Almunia, Rosicky, Squallaci. Really, in that case we need 6 or 7 as we would still need to strengthen after replacing the dross.

Surely though, having 5+ new players would change the mentality of the team. Hopefully they would be experienced enough to want to win and know what it takes, which if you had enough of them come in, would filter through to the rest of the team?

[Kano]

Whether he tells the truth or not is neither here nor there, the issue is he doesn't do the necessary in the transfer market and pampers his players way too much.

Actions speak louder than words and his actions basically support the fact he doesn't think we need much, after all he's always signings unknowns from the French league, unlike some of the other managers he doesn't seem capable of identifying problems and addressing them.

Frankly there's no defence for the sort of neglect he's been guilty of, the average man can see the issues and yet he doesn't seem to be able to, is that really all we can get for a 6 million a year salary?

He's had more than enough chances now to solve the problems, I'm afraid he hasn't and just doesn't cut the mustard anymore, it's only a money motivated board keeping him in the job...if they were truly interested in success and the football he'd have been gone by now.

It's a shame it's come to this to be honest, but IMO he's completely overshadowed what he achieved in the early days with the last 6 years.

ive not been on here long but you do repeat yourself quite a lot.

like wenger perhaps?

[selassie]

ive not been on here long but you do repeat yourself quite a lot.

like wenger perhaps?

There's a lot of truth in what Zim is saying though.

A couple of seasons back Arsene said "Judge me at the end of the season, if we don't win anything the Project has failed"

He was right, the Project has failed.

A couple of seasons on Arsene continues on with his failed & flawed policies.

If Arsene was judged on a "Results" only basis he would be out of job right now.

[Kano]

well he said 'judge me in may' he's smart enough to never refer to the project

but of course we all know he'd be out of a job at utd or chelsea

i kinda got itsme's point of view about that quite a while ago

[selassie]

well he said 'judge me in may' he's smart enough to never refer to the project

but of course we all know he'd be out of a job at utd or chelsea

i kinda got itsme's point of view about that quite a while ago

Yeah true...he did say judge me in May but he was pretty much stating that he would need to change his strategy if we failed. He basically moves the goalposts every year, at the beginning and the end of the season. ;)

IMHO He'd be out of a job at Liverpool too.

[LDG]

Come on Arsene.

Legend :bow:

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENE WENGER says Cesc Fabregas' on-off move to Barcelona is messing with his skipper's head.Fabregas has been left out of Arsenal's squad for this weekend's Emirates Cup as the £40million transfer wrangle takes its toll.
The Arsenal midfielder is also suffering from a hamstring injury.
And Wenger said: "He is coming back from an injury and is not settled with us.
"You know all the speculation which is around his position, that has to be sorted out soon."
Wenger maintains he has to concentrate on those players who are fully committed to the Arsenal cause.
Wenger is closing on Juan Mata, who could slot in in Fabregas jumps ship.
But the Gunners boss has warned fans he will not be rushed in to a deal.
Wenger added: "There is only one deadline, it is on August 31.
"The other deadline is for us to get everybody focused, the players who are really committed to the club, my energy and my focus goes on them,.
"That is what I focus on, I cannot help the other situation, because it does not only depend on me.
"It depends on the players and on the other clubs."


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3722631/Arsene-Wenger-says-Barcelona-wrangle-has-unsettled-Cesc-Fabregas.html#ixzz1TVnsrZ8n

We'll probably be out of the title race by then with us having already played Newcastle away, Liverpool at home and Mancs away as well as the CL qualifiers. We didnt win any of those 3 league games last season.

Wenger :doh:

[Özim]

August 31?

I don't get why you would wait till then, the season would have already started, sometimes you just wonder where the common sense has gone! :doh:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

August 31?

I don't get why you would wait till then, the season would have already started, sometimes you just wonder where the common sense has gone! :doh:

Its Strange indeed.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsène Wenger will do his transfer business "sooner rather than later" but he will not discuss specific targets.

The Arsenal manager has already brought in Carl Jenkinson and Gervinho this summer and he has been linked with moves for Valencia playmaker Juan Mata and Everton defender Phil Jagielka.

Wenger was pressed on his transfer plans when he faced the media ahead of this weekend's Emirates Cup but the Frenchman would not divulge any details.

"Our business will be done sooner rather than later but it is difficult to speak about any individual player because that makes things difficult," said Wenger. "I cannot complain about other clubs talking about our players and then do the same.

"I like the player [Mata], but that does not mean we will buy him. The other player [Jagielka] is under contract at Everton. If we want to buy a player, we need first the agreement of their club.

"At the moment the rules are constructed in a way where it is basically forbidden to speak about one individual player. I know that not everybody respects it, but I try to do as well as I can."

The transfer window does not close until August 31 but, as Wenger explained, market movement depends on more than just Arsenal.

"At the moment you have two categories of movement, one from zero to 10 million, and one from 30 to 50 million. We are in between," he said.

"In between nothing happens at the moment, there has been very little movement. All over Europe our industry is basically in a very bad financial situation. All the clubs who live from the money which football generates do not buy.

"The only clubs who buy at the moment in Europe are ones who buy with money which is not generated by our industry. There are two categories of club - those who travel with sweat and those who travel with petrol. We are those who travel with sweat."

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-i-ll-do-business-sooner-rather-than-later-

Speaking shit again

[Özim]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-i-ll-do-business-sooner-rather-than-later-

Speaking shit again
:lol: He does come up with some really elaborate nonsense, does he spend his days thinking of ways to make excuses for not signing players?

As far as I know you don't need other clubs to spend for you to be able to buy players, teams sell players all the time.

If you've got the money, bid for them and if it's rejected and you don't want to spend anymore that that, move on to other targets!

[Niall_Quinn]

We're so unlucky. We honour the waiting period when everyone else cheated and now we've emerged into the "in between" market where nothing is happening.

[Joker]

All over Europe our industry is basically in a very bad financial situation.

These are the sorts of comments that really pisses fans off. He's basically treating football as a private enterprise, and for fans it's more than that. I know that football has become a business, but Wenger seems to refer to football purely as if it's a private economic institution, that exists outside of any wider social context.

[Darth Vela]

:lol: He does come up with some really elaborate nonsense, does he spend his days thinking of ways to make excuses for not signing players?

As far as I know you don't need other clubs to spend for you to be able to buy players, teams sell players all the time.

If you've got the money, bid for them and if it's rejected and you don't want to spend anymore that that, move on to other targets!

It's a knock on effect, other clubs need to replace their outgoing players too as we're not working in a vacuum where nothing else affects us and most clubs don't have the liquidity to do relatively big deals in isolation.

[Master Splinter]

It's a knock on effect, other clubs need to replace their outgoing players too as we're not working in a vacuum where nothing else affects us and most clubs don't have the liquidity to do relatively big deals in isolation.

How dare you? Stop disgracing this thread with sense.

[Özim]

It's a knock on effect, other clubs need to replace their outgoing players too as we're not working in a vacuum where nothing else affects us and most clubs don't have the liquidity to do relatively big deals in isolation.
Clubs sell players without having replacements in place all the time, we've done it many times ourselves.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He's correct on this. Also for fans it might be more than that; he's talking about transfers though (no doubt that was what he was asked about), not what fans consider football to be.

[Darth Vela]

These are the sorts of comments that really pisses fans off. He's basically treating football as a private enterprise, and for fans it's more than that. I know that football has become a business, but Wenger seems to refer to football purely as if it's a private economic institution, that exists outside of any wider social context.

To think of football as purely an economic enterprise is stupid but the financial side is pretty much just the financial side, as it's financial. I don't think it pisses off fans that much either tbh, if he said that and bought in decent players they wouldn't care, it's the actions that has led to the (seemingly) widespread resentment.

[Darth Vela]

Clubs sell players without having replacements in place all the time, we've done it many times ourselves.

Not anywhere near as often as they plan, you think Wenger just wandered into Croatia after selling Henry and thought Eduardo had a trusting face? Most clubs in that middle area need to plan things out as the boom isn't so boomy any more, financial prudence isn't something that only exists in Wenger's imagination, it's a real part of football for many clubs. Take a look at how much Spurs spent for 3/4 years and how much they've spent this summer, they're not the only ones either

[Marc Overmars]

Traveling with sweat. :bow:

Add that to the list.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Sweet Jesus.

While some of what he says there makes sense, particularly the bit about the money being spent that has not been generated by Clubs, he really needs to cut the crap about waiting periods and The Inbetweeners.

[Joker]

there are two categories of club - those who travel with sweat and those who travel with petrol. We are those who travel with sweat."

wtf

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not anywhere near as often as they plan, you think Wenger just wandered into Croatia after selling Henry and thought Eduardo had a trusting face? Most clubs in that middle area need to plan things out as the boom isn't so boomy any more, financial prudence isn't something that only exists in Wenger's imagination, it's a real part of football for many clubs. Take a look at how much Spurs spent for 3/4 years and how much they've spent this summer, they're not the only ones either

So true

[Injury Time]

there are two categories of club - those who travel with sweat and those who travel with petrol. We are those who travel with sweat."

wtf
we've sold the team bus so the slaves will have to walk, oh away form RIP :rose:

[Joker]

we've sold the team bus so the slaves will have to walk, oh away form RIP :rose:

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

wtf

Anyone see our lot breaking sweat? I don't think so. In fact they play like they've been sniffing petrol.