Step back and look at the bigger picture

[Sirjackofwilshere]

There are numerous accusations directed at Wenger in this forum and others. Some are entirely justifiable, intelligent and I would endorse. A lot however are baseless and consist of little more than puerile, hyperbole directed at Wenger, seen as the epitome of what Arsenal has become, borne out of understandable frustration at the situation the club finds itself on and off the pitch.

Hopefully this thread will be some sort of balance - I'll post on factors and influences that contrary to popular belief Wenger is indeed at the mercy of..be they financial or otherwise.

Just to kick off:

this is from a guy who has a lot of inside info at the club..it is from twitter but he is reliable and known by many of the hacks.



@DarrenArsenal1
ONLY WAY out of financial trough of next 2 yrs is for Billionaires to stand guarantor of debt, that we have £100m of cash ...in bank used as covenants. This cash could be used. Means them not putting money in but using their assets to stand behind....behind debt. Otherwise its sell to buy. Reality is dawning that club is playing for 4th for next two years, a possible cub and....stay in contention, as they can't afford to compete on current model..people don't like it, but its true. Given that we've had 3+ years of this the manager deserves a knighthood for keeping us competing. People don't want to talk finances but football, but fact is Arsenal in a complete mess off the field and its like ostriches. With many who don't believe it has effected what we have now become....which of course it has.

[Joker]

Fair enough but there are people who claim we DO have money to spend, and spending it will not lead to financial meltdown:

http://arsenalnewsnewsnews.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/money-money-money-arsenal-have-millions-to-spend/


The next point is do we have money at the bank? The answer is yes, we have it by the bucket load. The last set of accounts for the 6 months ending November showed we had £110M in the bank. This remember is for a period when we still have not received all the television money nor all the prize money. Whilst we need to keep £22M in the bank to meet interest repayments, this still leaves us with £88M to spend. Since November we have sold more flats at Highbury Square and also sold to Barratts the Queensland Road flat development for around £26M. Cash is not a problem.

Arsenal have plenty of cash, cash that other clubs are envious of, the UEFA FPP regulations are workable, so there is no excuse from Wenger or the board as to why we do not spend money this summer.

Moreover, this is what our Chief Exec said last season:

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/gazidis-we-have-sufficient-funds-to-invest


“We’re now coming to a period, with Highbury Square coming to its completion and some of our other property developments bearing fruit, where the financial health of the Club is secure,” explained the Chief Executive.

“That does not mean we have unlimited resources, but it does mean we have sufficient funds to invest. As always we’ll only do this on our timescale, on the basis of our manager’s assessments and not those of the media.

“We have the youngest squad in the Premier League and we need to translate that potential into results. To the extent that the manager thinks it’s necessary, we will use our resources to supplement the squad intelligently so that we can take that vital step forward.

“For the most part we’re now in the healthy position that almost all of our young players are under long-term contracts and their futures are secure, as well as their possible transfer values being protected. One or two players are coming to the end of their contracts - William Gallas, for example.

“Whatever happens, Arsène has identified the fact that the defence has been an issue for us this year, so it’s not difficult to imagine that that’s an area we’re focused on in this transfer window.”

On an unrelated note, look what Gazidis says at the end. If Wenger had identified the defence as a problem in 2010, and the assumption was that he would strengthen properly, why did he sign Squillaci, a journeyman turd of a football, and Koscielny, an unproven player who would obviously take time to get used to a much more competitive league? Surely some real quality should have been brought in, to strengthen us defensively and sort out the deficiencies that (apparently) Wenger had identified? Gazidis says the funds were available, so either he's lying or Wenger's ideological belief in "prudence" cost us big time.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

But that first article is typical of the over simplified narrative that so many fans are happy to peddle. What about player wages? What about staff wages? What about club expenses? Just because the club has a cash reserve in the bank it doesn't mean it can spunk it on transfers.

I recommend a read of this thorough analysis of our finances: http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/05/arsenals-transfer-budget.html?utm_source=BP_recent


Arsenal’s fifth place in Deloitte’s Money League owes a great deal to their £94 million match day income, which is only surpassed by Real Madrid and Manchester United. In fact, 42% of Arsenal’s total revenue comes from match day, far higher than any other club, emphasising how reliant they are on their fans (including the “prawn sandwich brigade”), though it also serves to underline how feeble the commercial income is. Among the top 20 clubs in the Money League, only Aston Villa earn a lower proportion of their revenue from commercial activities.

^ This is the major problem the club has at the moment. As the AST clarified earlier this week, the club is locked in to (retrospectivley) awful, awful deals that were needed for the upfront money required for the stadium build. Essentially we're on a tightrope till the club can re-negotiate these deals or find better ones...the earliest this can happen is 2014. In the meantime Wenger has to play a careful balancing act. The article above suggests that there is in fact around 30 million specifically for transfers and wages...but given the precarious financial situation the club finds itself in, given that we have yet to qualify for this years CL (if we don't, forget profits the club will only break even) given the increasing inflation of wages by Citeh and the market it is entirely sensible what those at the club are trying to do at the moment.

Just because they don't come out and explicitly state the clubs poor finances (which would be a ludicrous thing to do) doesn't mean everythings hunky dory.

[AKBapologist]

*sigh*

Been saying this for weeks now. I think fans are pretty much entrenched in there views, and will cherry pick what they want to believe.

[dazthegooner]

Whilst Wenger is still manager I will give him a 100% backing (well what choice do we have) Maybe we should bring back Terry Neill (who was manager when I first started supporting Arsenal)

[Power n Glory]

I'm sick and tired of this debate about money. This is simple. Why can't we afford to give Nasri a new contract when we've just sold Clichy and giving Gibbs a chance in the first team?

We're selling Denilson and Bendy. That should free up around 90k - 100k. So why can't we afford to bump his wages up?

If money was such an issue, then how comes Wenger can tell the board that we're nit selling Nasri and we'll risk losing him on a free? Does that make any sense especially since we're supposed to be struggling financially? Why haven't we sold Cesc yet?

Fans are making up reasons and excuses for this club. The type of the excuse the club itself won't even use. It's embarrassing. Back in the Highbury days, stories about our bad sponsorship deals with people like Nike were supposed to be part of the reason why we couldn't compete with the big boys. It may be true, but the same story is floating around now and it seems like this move to the Emirates has been in vain or someone is leaking some serious bullshit to the fans.

[Boss]

I'm sick and tired of this debate about money. This is simple. Why can't we afford to give Nasri a new contract when we've just sold Clichy and giving Gibbs a chance in the first team?

We're selling Denilson and Bendy. That should free up around 90k - 100k. So why can't we afford to bump his wages up?

If money was such an issue, then how comes Wenger can tell the board that we're nit selling Nasri and we'll risk losing him on a free? Does that make any sense especially since we're supposed to be struggling financially? Why haven't we sold Cesc yet?

Fans are making up reasons and excuses for this club. The type of the excuse the club itself won't even use. It's embarrassing. Back in the Highbury days, stories about our bad sponsorship deals with people like Nike were supposed to be part of the reason why we couldn't compete with the big boys. It may be true, but the same story is floating around now and it seems like this move to the Emirates has been in vain or someone is leaking some serious bullshit to the fans.

this

We lack money to compete at the top level for the 40M+ players but nobody (or very few) are asking for that.

The way the club is run is a joke at times.

[cricketsi]

I'm sick and tired of this debate about money. This is simple. Why can't we afford to give Nasri a new contract when we've just sold Clichy and giving Gibbs a chance in the first team?

We're selling Denilson and Bendy. That should free up around 90k - 100k. So why can't we afford to bump his wages up?

If money was such an issue, then how comes Wenger can tell the board that we're nit selling Nasri and we'll risk losing him on a free? Does that make any sense especially since we're supposed to be struggling financially? Why haven't we sold Cesc yet?

Fans are making up reasons and excuses for this club. The type of the excuse the club itself won't even use. It's embarrassing. Back in the Highbury days, stories about our bad sponsorship deals with people like Nike were supposed to be part of the reason why we couldn't compete with the big boys. It may be true, but the same story is floating around now and it seems like this move to the Emirates has been in vain or someone is leaking some serious bullshit to the fans.

That's assuming the reasons for Nasri not signing a new contract are purely monetary. Do we know this to be the case?

[Boss]

That's assuming the reasons for Nasri not signing a new contract are purely monetary. Do we know this to be the case?

There's one of two cases re: Nasri:

1) It's about the (supposedly) desired extra 20k per week. Roughly a million extra a year. If Wenger looked at it financially, surely getting him to sign on for the low risk of 1M (assuming he doesn't completely tank next season) would be worth it as he'd either become a better player with us or be sold at the same price next year.

2) It's about wanting to be part of a team that can challenge, which speaks to the success of Wenger's projects when one of his most talented players wants to leave, his striker has asked for 'star' signings, the longest serving youth player has moved to the football project at Citeh and the captain desperately wants to get out. It'll continue unless he changes his policy.

Either way the club is fucking up with this shit.

[selassie]

I'm sick and tired of this debate about money. This is simple. Why can't we afford to give Nasri a new contract when we've just sold Clichy and giving Gibbs a chance in the first team?

We're selling Denilson and Bendy. That should free up around 90k - 100k. So why can't we afford to bump his wages up?

If money was such an issue, then how comes Wenger can tell the board that we're nit selling Nasri and we'll risk losing him on a free? Does that make any sense especially since we're supposed to be struggling financially? Why haven't we sold Cesc yet?

Fans are making up reasons and excuses for this club. The type of the excuse the club itself won't even use. It's embarrassing. Back in the Highbury days, stories about our bad sponsorship deals with people like Nike were supposed to be part of the reason why we couldn't compete with the big boys. It may be true, but the same story is floating around now and it seems like this move to the Emirates has been in vain or someone is leaking some serious bullshit to the fans.

:gp:

This.

If we were that financially strapped we wouldn't hold onto Cesc or potentially risk losing Nasri for free.

[Cripps_orig]

I believe what i see.

Wenger has lost it

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

This.

If we were that financially strapped we wouldn't hold onto Cesc or potentially risk losing Nasri for free.

Exactly. It also demonstrates the amount of power Wenger has at this club. He's come out and said that he's not selling Nasri, it's a technical decision and the board are okay with it. I've heard people suggest we've sold players against Wenger's will or he's powerless to change things but this story suggests otherwise.

He's a man of principles and he himself doesn't want to break the wage structure. Listen to him talk about Man City and respecting rules. Look how stubborn the guy is. He could convince the board that Nasri is worth the wages, but he's not going to.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

The fact that we're trying to keep Cesc and Nasri doesn't tell us anything other than we don't want to give out a message that we're in decline. Isn't Nasri's contentions about his wages the major stumbling block? Whilst any of our main rivals can easily gazump the wages we're offering. We seem to be trapped in this rigid system where our financial perils dictate how much the manager can spend of transfers AND wages.

[fakeyank]

So we move to the new stadium for what? We are not competitive, we are broke.. might as well have stayed at Highbury. However I do not think we are broke. We have a decent amount of money but AW is a massive cock and wont spend the money.

[Niall_Quinn]

But that first article is typical of the over simplified narrative that so many fans are happy to peddle. What about player wages? What about staff wages? What about club expenses? Just because the club has a cash reserve in the bank it doesn't mean it can spunk it on transfers.

Huh? Does that mean they're letting the fans in for free this season? And letting the sponsors off and saying no to Sky's cash? If so then yes indeed, they need to guard the money in the bank very carefully.

[Power n Glory]

The fact that we're trying to keep Cesc and Nasri doesn't tell us anything other than we don't want to give out a message that we're in decline. Isn't Nasri's contentions about his wages the major stumbling block? Whilst any of our main rivals can easily gazump the wages we're offering. We seem to be trapped in this rigid system where our financial perils dictate how much the manager can spend of transfers AND wages.

We just got rid of Clichy. We have £7m in the bank and he's off the wage bill. Why not use that cash to give him a wage increase? We're not replacing Clichy, plus we have Denilson and Bendy on their way out. We can't use financial restrictions as an excuse on this one. This is self imposed. Next year, Rosicky will be out of contract, so will Arshavin and it's unlikey we'll be replacing them either. For a fraction of what their worth we can easily afford to give our top players a top up.

We just signed three youth players. For what purpose? How much are they on and why is that we can find the money to pay and educate players that won't have an impact on our season? They probably won't even make it into the first team. Look what happenend with Nordveit and Merida. We sign them up, pay their wages and then sell them off for peanuts. How much are those guys on? How comes guys like JET can afford a car that's worth £300k to write off? Total nonsense. If we're paying these guys £10k - £30k a week but we're not willing to give our top players a wage increase that's at least competitive, then we have complete idiots running this club. From the manager to board room. We pay our kids more than any other club and that's why these little shits jump at the chance to join us. How backwards is that. We throw the money at unproven talent but penny pinch when it comes to the stars.

These restrictions are self imposed. I thought Rafa was talking rubbish when he said Liverpool couldn't afford to pay players the sort of money Arsenal pay. But then I realised he was talking about our youth/reserve players not the first team. Please, no more talk of financial restrictions and us being broke. It's as annoying as hearing a guy talk about not being able to afford rent but the son of bitch can afford to kit his house out with the latest gadgets and toys. The priorities of this club are back to front, inside out and all fucked up. When you take all the above into consideration, there is no way we talk about not being able to pay a player and extra £30k - £50k a month. We just don't want to.

[selassie]

The fact that we're trying to keep Cesc and Nasri doesn't tell us anything other than we don't want to give out a message that we're in decline. Isn't Nasri's contentions about his wages the major stumbling block? Whilst any of our main rivals can easily gazump the wages we're offering. We seem to be trapped in this rigid system where our financial perils dictate how much the manager can spend of transfers AND wages.

Well every top team wants to keep it's best players, if we want to give out a REAL positive message we should look to supplement some of our current stars with established quality signing, why does it always have to be about projects & signing young potential?

Nobody is saying that we need to spend like Citeh or Chelsea but we could and should be more ambitious in the transfer market, hell Spurs & Liverpool show more amibition in the market than us.

I suspect Nasri doesn't want to sign for two reasons, financial & sporting ambitions.

We're trapped in a rigid system designed by our Manager who is so wrapped up in a idealistic way of doing things he can't see the wood through the trees. Arsene's self imposed financial restrictions and approach to squad building is doing this club no favours. As P'n'G pointed out we seem to be able to always find the money for Youth (even gazumping the likes of Man United on wages for Ramsey), but when it comes to paying our experienced/established players we seem to face issue after issue.

We've created this problem, not our rivals.

[Toronto Gooner]

Going back to the initial post, SirJack, can you fill in some of the "missing" pieces for me. How do you know that this guy has inside knowledge? Am I reading his "tweets" correctly when he implies that Arsenal have another 2 years in the financial trough? What happens after those 2 years? What is this "financial trough"?

What does this mean and who are the ostriches? but fact is Arsenal in a complete mess off the field and its like ostriches. I could be wrong but, given that Arsenal's figures are in the public record, wouldn't there be some level of talk about the finances if they are a "complete mess"? I fully appreciate that accounts and financial statements can be massaged but given the recent history of companies falsifying their accounts, you would imagine that there would be some chatter.

Finally, if Arsenal are in such financial trouble, what are the other clubs (except a few) like?

[Toronto Gooner]

We're trapped in a rigid system designed by our Manager who is so wrapped up in a idealistic way of doing things he can't see the wood through the trees. Arsene's self imposed financial restrictions and approach to squad building is doing this club no favours. As P'n'G pointed out we seem to be able to always find the money for Youth (even gazumping the likes of Man United on wages for Ramsey), but when it comes to paying our experienced/established players we seem to face issue after issue.

We've created this problem, not our rivals.
The point is that the club decides what a player is worth, and not the fans. At the moment, we do not like the way the system is working but I would posit that this is because the club is not being as successful as we would like. If the club had won a few trophies in the last 6 years, everyone would be calling players who leave for financial reasons (and guaranteed that Clichy left for more money), they would be called mercenaries.

Personally, I would love to see Arsenal compete for and get Aguero but I am realistic enough to know that the problems that his transfer fee and salary would bring is almost certainly not worth it.

[Power n Glory]

Do you think Eboue, Denilson, Diaby and Bendy are worth their wages? We don't need them in the squad and if we sell them and we have money for an Augero type signing. This youth project has been a failure and we've wasted time and money on certain players that have no business playing first team football for a top side.

[AKBapologist]

Do you think Eboue, Denilson, Diaby and Bendy are worth their wages? We don't need them in the squad and if we sell them and we have money for an Augero type signing. This youth project has been a failure and we've wasted time and money on certain players that have no business playing first team football for a top side.
:haha:

[Boss]

:haha:

I'm glad you're actually contributing to the forum with your stellar levels of debate, unlike the rest of us who can only whine about the same issues over and over again. :good:

[AKBapologist]

OK, lets do some math.

Eboue (30kpw), Denilson (40kpw), Diaby (50kpw) and Bendy (52kpw) = 172kpw.

The type of wages that would get Augero to choose us over city/chelsea or RM? = 250kpw.

And that's withstanding transfer fee, agent fees and signing on fee.

:coffee:

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm sick and tired of this debate about money. This is simple. Why can't we afford to give Nasri a new contract when we've just sold Clichy and giving Gibbs a chance in the first team?

maybe because a good three months doesnt justify an extra 20k a week? you considered that?

[Power n Glory]

:haha:

You any good at maths? You don't even need to be good at maths to work it out. A kid looking to trade in a few old playstation titles for a new one at Game can even understand this principle.

Estimate how much those four players are worth, same goes for the wages and see what figure you come up with. A big name signing should cost us between £30m - £40m and around 100k - £150k in wages.

Our squad is too big and filled with below average players on very decent wages. Trim the size but up the quality and we have a solution to the problem.

[AKBapologist]

Yaya Toure > 250kpw
Tevez > 210kpw
Rooney > 250kpw

Your kidding yourself if you think somehow that Augero will come here for 150kpw when city could offer 100kpw more. BTW, Denilson (Sau Paulo), Bentdner (Everton?) and Eboue (Galatasaray?) have already pretty much left.

[Power n Glory]

maybe because a good three months doesnt justify an extra 20k a week? you considered that?

No I didn't. I think you've got me there Sherlock.

[AKBapologist]

And what? Just one player in exchange for 4, and an additional 5mill to the wage bill that we probably can't sustainably afford until at least 2014 - regardless of the transfer fee, our performance on and off the pitch etc?

Yeah. Ostridges refers to all those fans with heads in the sand.

[Power n Glory]

City can out bid anyone but not every player wants to play for City.

Besides Augero, there are plenty of top class players that we could buy and pay if we trimmed the fat off this club. It's not impossible.

[AKBapologist]

City can out bid anyone but not every player wants to play for City.

Besides Augero, there are plenty of top class players that we could buy and pay if we trimmed the fat off this club. It's not impossible.
It's looking like most of the fat will be trimmed this season, project youth will go on regardless and no massive signings will come. The OP points to the fact that united spend 20mill more than us on wages (city spend 60mill more per year than us btw) and generates 40mill more than us in commercial revenue as being a significant stumbling block on competiting for the best players in the transfer market. Not sure what's wrong with that assessment tbh.

[Power n Glory]

Whatever, man.

We're talking about Augero type signings and this club won't even bother to pay for guys like Samba and Cahill even though we've just got an extra 7m in for Clichy.

[AKBapologist]

Whatever, man.

We're talking about Augero type signings and this club won't even bother to pay for guys like Samba and Cahill even though we've just got an extra 7m in for Clichy.
YEP, AND IT'S ALL WENGERS FAULT! WENGER OUT, THIS CLUB IS SHIT AND WON'T NOT BE SHIT UNTIL HE'S LEFT. WENGER OUT!

Am I doing it right?

*sighs*

[Power n Glory]

YEP, AND IT'S ALL WENGERS FAULT! WENGER OUT, THIS CLUB IS SHIT AND WON'T NOT BE SHIT UNTIL HE'S LEFT. WENGER OUT!

Am I doing it right?

*sighs*

No, go to the tallest building and jump. That should top it off. Lol

[Darth Vela]

We still can't compete for the top level of player, i.e. the ones that are well proven to be quality and are at their peak, but there's also still plenty to improve our team that come outside that definition. I guess it's worth remembering that we aren't rich but we aren't too poor either, within a few years we'll have a little more cash to burn but for now we won't be seeing a top guy in unless a top guy goes out.

[AKBapologist]

I personally, feel that if we're to win anything next season, We'd need to add 2-3 players in their prime at the very highest quality because:

1) It would convince the stars we have that we're a *big club*

2) Give aspiring youths some level of quality beyond someone who's only a year or two older (Or not Rosicky, Chamakh)

4) Have enough quality in the side to seasonably rotate and cover for others to are not in form or fit.

5) A better fucking bench. In hindsight, Bendtner, Denilson, Eboue and Chamakh aren't exactly the types of players to change the rhythm of a game or even secure a result.

6) And people forget that +30 goals per season usually kick the shit out of the smaller teams, which we haven't really done since Adebyor left.

[Joker]

The argument by Wenger that City have distorted the market, therefore it's very difficult to get top quality players as they can always offer more in wages is a nonsense. City are not in for every single quality footballer on the planet. There are limits to squad sizes and on the number of home grown players. There are always "markets" (i.e. players) that are free of any Man City influence.

[fakeyank]

I personally, feel that if we're to win anything next summer, We'd need to add 2-3 players in their prime at the very highest quality because:

1) It would convince the stars we have that we're a *big club*

2) Give aspiring youths some level of quality beyond someone who's only a year or two older (Or not Rosicky, Chamakh)

4) Have enough quality in the side to seasonably rotate and cover for others to are not in form or fit.

5) A better fucking bench. In hindsight, Bendtner, Denilson, Eboue and Chamakh aren't exactly the types of players to change the rhythm of a game or even secure a result.

6) And people forget that +30 goals per season usually kick the shit out of the smaller teams, which we haven't really done since Adebyor left.

Next summer? :lol:

:doh:

[AKBapologist]

http://www.ostrichheadinsand.com/images/ostrich_head_in_sand.jpg

Meanwhile in reality, Liverpool spend 60mill on average players worth half as much 3 years ago...


Which has nothing to do with Chelsea and City dumping £1-2billion into the EPL/Europe that wouldn't have normally have been there.

[AKBapologist]

Next summer? :lol:

:doh:

Oh wow, a typo... WOOOOOOOO.

:doh:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Next summer? :lol:

:doh:
The Emirates Trophy shall be ours.

[fakeyank]

Oh wow, a typo... WOOOOOOOO.

:doh:

Dont think its a typo! We are not buying anyone this summer. We need to have top players in place to have the want aways rethink their decision instead what is AW doing? He is sitting like a hermit waiting for the waiting period to be over... well fuck him! We might end up signing a couple more players by end of August but what are the chances AW will use that as an excuse to say the new players need 6 months to a year to integrate into a new team?

Thing is most posters on here are sick of seeing the same BS every season! At the beginning of every summer, AW begins by saying that he has identified targets and will be moving in quickly to secure them. We are rumored to be in for some players who we really need but nothing moves... AW comes out and says that the players are hungry to win and will only add TOP quality players. In a few weeks, we will end up signing the most promising player from the french league yet our most basic need of defensive cover will not be addressed. In the meantime, we will be signing 10-15 year olds like we are on a mission. The only transfer rumors that end up being true for us is when they involve teenagers yet anyone with even a pea sized brain can see that we need experienced winners in the team! If you are not sick of it then thats good for you.. I think my club is going down the drain and the board and AW have made it into a business rather than a football club!

[Toronto Gooner]

We still can't compete for the top level of player, i.e. the ones that are well proven to be quality and are at their peak,
In reality, how many clubs can compete for those players? Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man U, AC Milan, Inter Milan, and who else? I would have added Chelsea and Man City but I believe that these are clubs where players go to fill their bank accounts. The other clubs attract big names for reasons in addition to money. The fact that we are looking to compete with these clubs shows how far Arsenal have come in the last 15 years.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The Emirates Trophy shall be ours.

No, its not happening after this year as they have decided that its not economically viable and we can generate more money by touring asia, etc.

True story.

[fakeyank]

No, its not happening after this year as they have decided that its not economically viable and we can generate more money by touring asia, etc.

True story.

No way! Our club is not motivated by money or profits. You gots to be lying!

[Niall_Quinn]

The board should be sacked for signing such sucky deals that have left us in the shitter - don't you think? Or should we only be taking the finances excuse so far and pretending some of these guys weren't in charge when those honking deals were going down? What reward will these incompetent cunts be getting? How many millions?

The big picture? The board is adding the finishing touches to running up the valuation of the club with a campaign of misdirection and deceit that suggested we were moving stadium to bring in the revenues to compete at the highest levels - to take us on from where we were. They have just completed a six year program of asset stripping, ably assisted by the manager, and now they are parachuting out with millions and leaving things in the hands of an American profiteer who knows fuck all about the game and has made no indication whatsoever he gives a shit about what goes on on the pitch. An elaborate and, as it turns out, highly effective method of fleecing the fans for an extended period. Under many circumstances this would be called theft but this is the corporate world where theft and destruction is not only legal but admirable to some.

[Power n Glory]

The board should be sacked for signing such sucky deals that have left us in the shitter - don't you think? Or should we only be taking the finances excuse so far and pretending some of these guys weren't in charge when those honking deals were going down? What reward will these incompetent cunts be getting? How many millions?

The big picture? The board is adding the finishing touches to running up the valuation of the club with a campaign of misdirection and deceit that suggested we were moving stadium to bring in the revenues to compete at the highest levels - to take us on from where we were. They have just completed a six year program of asset stripping, ably assisted by the manager, and now they are parachuting out with millions and leaving things in the hands of an American profiteer who knows fuck all about the game and has made no indication whatsoever he gives a shit about what goes on on the pitch. An elaborate and, as it turns out, highly effective method of fleecing the fans for an extended period. Under many circumstances this would be called theft but this is the corporate world where theft and destruction is not only legal but admirable to some.

:gp: It really looks bad. Has it been a long con?

Before we moved to the Emirates they said we couldn't compete financially with clubs like Man U because of the bad sponsorship deal we did Nike. Then we were told the capacity of Highbury was too small and we needed to build a bigger stadium. Now we're in the Emirates, they're are still rumours of us not making enough money. At first it was the stadium debt, now bad sponsorship deals (again), when will it end.

All the while, we've been sold off to Stan, something they said would never happen and they're cashing in their cheques.

[Ralpheroo72]

When Gazidis said that we would be active in the transfer market, SELLING our players was not what I had in mind. Yes, I wanted us to offload certain players, but the prospect of losing Cesc and Nasri does not fill me with joy. We have not addressed the defence, and Squillaci was tormented in our recent friendly in China. No one at the club can be trusted.

[dazthegooner]

See Clichy has been slagging of Arsenal hope he breaks a leg and the owners bum him hard...

[hobson's choice]

What does lack of money have to do with not being able to defend set pieces, or look like you know how to defend when you don't have the ball. Or not blowing leads against vastly inferior opponents

Excuses, excuses, the problems this team has is not to do with moeny.

[fakeyank]

What does lack of money have to do with not being able to defend set pieces, or look like you know how to defend when you don't have the ball. Or not blowing leads against vastly inferior opponents

Excuses, excuses, the problems this team has is not to do with moeny.

:gp:

Amen to that brother! Our main problem is not that we dont spend enough but the fact that we have no characters in the dressing room and because AW is technically inept!

[selassie]

We still can't compete for the top level of player, i.e. the ones that are well proven to be quality and are at their peak, but there's also still plenty to improve our team that come outside that definition. I guess it's worth remembering that we aren't rich but we aren't too poor either, within a few years we'll have a little more cash to burn but for now we won't be seeing a top guy in unless a top guy goes out.

This.

I really don't understand why it's got to be a choice between buying an unknown or spending on world class players like City, there's a middle ground.

I'd be quite happy with a few established PL type players that go for circa 15million, I'm pretty sure we can make a signing like that now and again without the club going into adminstration.

[Penguin]

This.

I really don't understand why it's got to be a choice between buying an unknown or spending on world class players like City, there's a middle ground.

I'd be quite happy with a few established PL type players that go for circa 15million, I'm pretty sure we can make a signing like that now and again without the club going into adminstration.

I completely agree.

Our squad last season was 2 or 3 decent players away from being able to win trophies. If we had decent back-up players for Vermaelen and RVP on the bench just think of how many points better off we would be. They don't have to be £30m+ signings.

Ferguson got Vidic for £7m and Hernandez for £6m. Wenger is renowned for his ability to find talents so I don't see why he can't do the same.

[selassie]

The point is that the club decides what a player is worth, and not the fans. At the moment, we do not like the way the system is working but I would posit that this is because the club is not being as successful as we would like. If the club had won a few trophies in the last 6 years, everyone would be calling players who leave for financial reasons (and guaranteed that Clichy left for more money), they would be called mercenaries.

Personally, I would love to see Arsenal compete for and get Aguero but I am realistic enough to know that the problems that his transfer fee and salary would bring is almost certainly not worth it.

TG, for sure the club decides what a player is worth and if we believe any of the stuff printed in the Media, over the past few seasons we've missed out on some really top class players due to our rigid stance on what we believe a player is worth. I mean is our financial situation so precarious that we'll happily pass on first choice targets for the sake of a few million?

IMHO Part of the reason why we don't win anything is due to our flawed self imposed system. No matter which way we look at it, players are now leaving to win trophies elsewhere, look at Clichy's comments re: Joining City, it's not sour grapes or venom, it's the reality, he's telling the truth isn't he?

I'm not really asking for Aguero type signings, I'm realistic enough to know that right now we can't compete for players like him because the fee & wages do not fit in line with our financial model. What I don't understand is why we can't compete for emerging talent & semi-established PL type players? We're a top 4 club with decent enough revenue, why do we have a net spend of a Championship club?

[KSE Comedy Club]

Gazidis on SSN today.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_7045684,00.html


When questioned whether the likes of Fabregas and Nasri could be sold by Arsenal, Gazidis believes Wenger is the voice of Arsenal and that he is not prepared to add any more fuel on the fire.

"We don't conduct our business in public," Gazidis told Sky Sports News. "I don't intend to put my voice into the mix.

"Arsene has been very clear and explicit on all of those subjects. I'll leave the voice of Arsenal to be his."

Gazidis did confirm the club do have funds to strengthen and that the north Londoners are determined to become winners on the pitch and end their six-year trophy drought in the process.

Whereas other clubs are looking to fill gaps vacated by retiring players Arsenal are not looking to plug holes in Wenger's team, just enhance the strength in depth the Frenchman already possesses.

"We do have money we can spend," added Gazidis.

"The challenge for us is a little bit different than some of the other clubs, we don't have positions where players are coming to the end of their careers and positions where there are holes.

"We have to find players who can improve on some of the positions that we currently have and add some depth.

"We want to be winners. We want to be trophy winners.

"There's a relentless focus on doing things we need to do to achieve that, but we also have to do them within the bounds of a sensible football club."

[Boss]

Yeah but no matter what the board and spreadsheets say we're broke, you should know this.

[selassie]

Gazidis on SSN today.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_7045684,00.html

I swear Gazidis reports to Wenger. Can anybody really explain in detail what Gazidis's role is?

[Özim]

I swear Gazidis reports to Wenger. Can anybody really explain in detail what Gazidis's role is?
Official Wenger bumlicker.

This guy came in a while ago now, doesn't seem to have made any difference to anything...not really sure what he's needed for other than to agree with everything Wengers says tbh.

[Letters]

not really sure what he's needed for other than to agree with everything Wengers says tbh.

Marginally better than disagreeing with everything Wenger says even when you agree with it I suppose.

[Özim]

Marginally better than disagreeing with everything Wenger says even when you agree with it I suppose.
Disagreeing is better, at least you have your own opinion...beats being a sheep.

[Champagne Charlie]

Personally I think the media and a lot of fans have got too hung up on the whole financial side of things. Our whole style of football simply isn't suited to the premier league. We don't counter anywhere near quickly enough anymore and it allows teams to get men behind the ball and slows the game down. That's not a lack of personnel, it's tactics. It's the way AW has decided to build the team.

And the well publicised defensive problems won't be fixed by signing a "world class" centre-back. It's a fundamental problem within the team and has been for years. For me, I'd much rather see us sign up a defensive coach in the Martin Keown mould than sign a Cahill or Samba.

[Letters]

Disagreeing is better, at least you have your own opinion...beats being a sheep.

Well, no. Agree with what you agree with, disagree with what you disagree with.
Disagreeing with or criticising EVERYTHING someone says or does, even if you agree with it...well, that's just silly.

[Özim]

Well, no. Agree with what you agree with, disagree with what you disagree with.
Disagreeing with or criticising EVERYTHING someone says or does, even if you agree with it...well, that's just silly.
It just happens that most of what Wenger says is cr*p hence the reason I disagree with him.

I don't disagree for the sake of it btw, just don't believe in the things he says and does.

[Letters]

It just happens that most of what Wenger says is cr*p hence the reason I disagree with him.

I don't disagree for the sake of it btw, just don't believe in the things he says and does.

I've seen you criticise him for saying things which are pretty much impossible to dispute or disagree with, it certainly comes across as if you have a go at him WHATEVER he does now just on principle.

[Özim]

I've seen you criticise him for saying things which are pretty much impossible to dispute or disagree with, it certainly comes across as if you have a go at him WHATEVER he does now just on principle.
Not really, I don't necessarily always dispute what he says, more the fact he keeps going on about others rather than keeping quiet and focussing on his job with his team.

IMO he often comes out and criticises others (rightly and wrongly) but fails to apply the same rules to his team/squad, some will say it's to protect them/ will affect morale etc.....it's been proved that not saying anything has no benefits however so I think he should be more openly critical when necessary.

The stuff about Man City is true, but he complains about others all the time and yet ignores what us the fans are more concerned about....the problems at our club.

[KSE Comedy Club]

However:


just enhance the strength in depth the Frenchman already possesses.

:lol:

[Letters]

Not really, I don't necessarily always dispute what he says, more the fact he keeps going on about others rather than keeping quiet and focussing on his job with his team.

IMO he often comes out and criticises others (rightly and wrongly) but fails to apply the same rules to his team/squad, some will say it's to protect them/ will affect morale etc.....it's been proved that not saying anything has no benefits however so I think he should be more openly critical when necessary.

The stuff about Man City is true, but he complains about others all the time and yet ignores what us the fans are more concerned about....the problems at our club.

Fair enough.

[Toronto Gooner]

Yeah but no matter what the board and spreadsheets say we're broke, you should know this.
I am curious how you state this so categorically? You have access to the club's bank accounts?

[Boss]

I am curious how you state this so categorically? You have access to the club's bank accounts?

I was being sarcastic - we have plenty of money to spend. Not as much as Citeh and Chelsea of course, but there's no reason we couldn't spend 50M in a summer (on a collection of players not one).

As for the bank accounts, everyone in the public has access to the club's financial statements, which amounts to the same thing...

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/apr_11/gun__1303909522_Arsenal_Holdings_plc_-_Interim.pdf

[fakeyank]

I was being sarcastic - we have plenty of money to spend. Not as much as Citeh and Chelsea of course, but there's no reason we couldn't spend 50M in a summer (on a collection of players not one).

As for the bank accounts, everyone in the public has access to the club's financial statements, which amounts to the same thing...

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/apr_11/gun__1303909522_Arsenal_Holdings_plc_-_Interim.pdf

Tegistan tearin it up!

[Toronto Gooner]

I was being sarcastic - we have plenty of money to spend. Not as much as Citeh and Chelsea of course, but there's no reason we couldn't spend 50M in a summer (on a collection of players not one).

As for the bank accounts, everyone in the public has access to the club's financial statements, which amounts to the same thing...

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/apr_11/gun__1303909522_Arsenal_Holdings_plc_-_Interim.pdf
Apologies Boss. No excuse for missing the sarcasm but I have seen far too many people go on about the lack of funds in other fora.

As an aside, but related to the money situation, a friend suggested the following: Sell Fabregas and Nasri (in excess of 50 million according to news reports), and re-invest the money and their combined salaries in getting Aguero.

[Xhosa_Gunner]

Somewhere along the line, the clubs policy and principles changed. Unfortunately they did not inform the fans and the Stadium was the best excuse to cover the 'change'. Last year we sold Kolo and Ade to City. Net income @ 40mil. What happened to the money? The question no one is asking is ...How many SHARES has AW got? In case you are not aware, any senior personnel in any company is offered shares. The staff are also allowed to buy more at discounted prices. How many shares has AW got? I ask again!!!!. If any of us were AW (with huge investment in Arsenal Shares), what would be your natural reaction? Make money for the company and therefore yourself ...No?
The owners are definitely not complaining. They are having better returns on their investment. AW was once asked whether he is not being overpayed by the club. His response was "I believe I make so much money for the club" Go figure it out. He is not going anywhere. Management is happy, he is happy ... the rest of us can go to hell. Ask yourself, would any top coach refuse to pay 1mil more (Fulham Keeper) if he really wants to win a trophy? Yep... he was he was I mil over valued that was his excuse for not buying the Aussie....we had sold Kolo and Ade for close to 40. AW is not interested in trophies anymore. He is just making more money before he retires.

[Power n Glory]

I asked that same question, mate. But he was once asked if he had shares in the company but he thought it was unethical for a manager to have shares in a club. Maybe he's got shares under his daughter's name! Lol.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

People need to take a breath, players are coming, but ''noise'' is for other clubs consumption not fans #arsenal

Although i think this summer has been a shambles, we are where we are. And we are in a position where club is break even on the....
web • 26/08/2011 14:29

football side of things in terms of finance, which means every time we buy a player we ''have'' to drive a hard bargain. This will change...
web • 26/08/2011 14:30

..in 2014 when we get circa £40m profit to bottom line until then we are where we are. Hence why it takes us ages to sign a player.
web • 26/08/2011 14:30

Which means that in effect AW is right, the last 48 hours could be madness as clubs try and sell and buy.
web • 26/08/2011 14:31

And no im not being positive, nothing will change my view that 'summer' clubs actions have been a total mess #arsenal Just bieng realistic
web • 26/08/2011 14:32

Once you add property sales we will show a profit up until May,take that away & we are about break even in finances on what we spend/recieve
web • 26/08/2011 14:34

Hence sales need to pay for purchases in effect until we drive revenues otherwise which wont be to 2014. #arsenal
web • 26/08/2011 14:34

Hence the rational of why he has kept on saying that 4th is like winning something,because #arsenal have to stay 4th to keep revenue current
web • 26/08/2011 14:37

Same guy of my OP

[Fats]

REALLY?

Another BLAH BLAH BULLSHIT POST!!!!!!

[fakeyank]

Somewhere along the line, the clubs policy and principles changed. Unfortunately they did not inform the fans and the Stadium was the best excuse to cover the 'change'. Last year we sold Kolo and Ade to City. Net income @ 40mil. What happened to the money? The question no one is asking is ...How many SHARES has AW got? In case you are not aware, any senior personnel in any company is offered shares. The staff are also allowed to buy more at discounted prices. How many shares has AW got? I ask again!!!!. If any of us were AW (with huge investment in Arsenal Shares), what would be your natural reaction? Make money for the company and therefore yourself ...No?
The owners are definitely not complaining. They are having better returns on their investment. AW was once asked whether he is not being overpayed by the club. His response was "I believe I make so much money for the club" Go figure it out. He is not going anywhere. Management is happy, he is happy ... the rest of us can go to hell. Ask yourself, would any top coach refuse to pay 1mil more (Fulham Keeper) if he really wants to win a trophy? Yep... he was he was I mil over valued that was his excuse for not buying the Aussie....we had sold Kolo and Ade for close to 40. AW is not interested in trophies anymore. He is just making more money before he retires.

:gp: