Match Reaction v Burnley (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Dominating the game, should be way clear. Then do something fucking ridiculous and then it's a scrap thereafter.

Makes the Leicester win a waste of everyone's time.

[IBK]

Shit game, shit pitch, shit Xhaka cock up, shit VAR penalty decision, shit team line, up shit subs (apart from Pepe), shit result.

[Gooner23]

Mid table mediocrity.

[IBK]

Dominating the game, should be way clear. Then do something fucking ridiculous and then it's a scrap thereafter.

Makes the Leicester win a waste of everyone's time.

This. :fingers: Arsenal

[Marc Overmars]

Are we still turning the corner? Have we made it round yet? What’s the angle with this team and coach?

I see we’re still 10th, making stupid mistakes and not beating awful teams.

Green shoots.

Progress.

Sure thing! Oh and we still don’t have 40 points yet.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Xhaka should never play for this club again.


Also who ever was operating VAR needs to be sacked. How the fuck wasn’t that handball a penalty

[Letters]

Are we still turning the corner? Have we made it round yet? What’s the angle with this team and coach?

I see we’re still 10th, making stupid mistakes and not beating awful teams.

Green shoots.

Progress.

Sure thing! Oh and we still don’t have 40 points yet.

I have, unfortunately, come around to your point of view.
We are the dictionary definition of mid-table. I do think there's something about this team which is worthy of some optimism, but this season is another write off.

[Letters]

Xhaka should never play for this club again.


Also who ever was operating VAR needs to be sacked. How the fuck wasn’t that handball a penalty

The handball rule is complete bullshit but I've seen them given for that sort of thing this season.
What's the point in VAR if it doesn't bring about some consistency? It got the Burnley red card right though tbf

[Gooner23]

That first handball has to be a pen based on previous decisions this season. Wouldn't be against it changing in the future as it's played at point blank range, but that's not the point.

Don't know if all fans say this about their team, but we really have no luck whatsoever with the VAR decisions.

[Marc Overmars]

I have, unfortunately, come around to your point of view.
We are the dictionary definition of mid-table. I do think there's something about this team which is worthy of some optimism, but this season is another write off.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Spurs then lose to West Ham the following week. Just an ordinary team that on its day can beat anyone but that day only comes once a month. Will never get back into the top 4 if we can’t win multiple games on the bounce regularly.

[Mac76]

Xhaka should never play for this club again.


Also who ever was operating VAR needs to be sacked. How the fuck wasn’t that handball a penalty

This

all of it

[Mac76]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Spurs then lose to West Ham the following week. Just an ordinary team that on its day can beat anyone but that day only comes once a month. Will never get back into the top 4 if we can’t win multiple games on the bounce regularly.

we'll lose to spuds we all know that

and we've no chance against West Ham either, they're actually quite good you know...

[Ollie the Optimist]

That first handball has to be a pen based on previous decisions this season. Wouldn't be against it changing in the future as it's played at point blank range, but that's not the point.

Don't know if all fans say this about their team, but we really have no luck whatsoever with the VAR decisions.

The PGMOL have come out and said it wasnt a penalty because of proximity to the ball.

That’s fine to a certain extent but in this case it isn’t. On the replay, the Burnley player takes several steps towards the ball and as he moves, his arm goes out. That’s a penalty and proximatity is irrevlant as he sticks his arm out as he moves.


But then again, if the PGMOL are saying having your arms out wide isn’t handball if you stand close to the ball, all defenders might as well do that going forward.

[LDG]

A team built around a bang average midfielder/captain who costs us every other match.

Why!? Watching him standing on the ball and trotting about like a horse out to stud is like pulling teeth. Transitions from the back to front are slower than track and trace. He’s not a pivot, he’s a rusty hinge. Cunt

And the one time in his Arsenal career Willian is playing “alright” he’s substituted and the player who was about to get sent off, and who is having a stinker doesn’t get replaced!

[Mac76]

A team built around a bang average midfielder/captain who costs us every other match.

Why!? Watching him standing on the ball and trotting about like a horse out to stud is like pulling teeth. Transitions from the back to front are slower than track and trace. He’s not a pivot, he’s a rusty hinge. Cunt

And the one time in his Arsenal career Willian is playing “alright” he’s substituted and the player who was about to get sent off, and who is having a stinker doesn’t get replaced!

i'm so glad it's not just me who sees this

all this BS about how Xhaka's playing 'better' is just that - BS - he's still clumsy and slows our play down immeasurably.

the sooner Arteta wakes up and smells the coffee about this accident-prone fake the better

[Letters]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Spurs then lose to West Ham the following week. Just an ordinary team that on its day can beat anyone but that day only comes once a month. Will never get back into the top 4 if we can’t win multiple games on the bounce regularly.

I saw some league table from Christmas onwards where we were top 4.
All a bit meaningless I guess, you obviously judge a season over the whole of it (and at the end ;))
I do feel we are playing better right now and but for a Xhaka brainfart I think we'd have won easily today. It's a massively frustrating result and Xhaka should clearly be killed, but I'm a bit more optimistic about things that I was just before Christmas when we couldn't buy a win.

[Letters]

we'll lose to spuds we all know that

Oh yeah, because they've been sweeping all before them recently...

[Gooner23]

Hopefully we can sign someone like Bissouma to play alongside Partey next season and relegate Xhaka to warming the bench.

I don't seem him being sold unfortunately as we're likely to lose all our other centre mids (Ceballos, Elneny, Torreira and Guendouzi) and I don't think it's realistic to sign 3 new centre mids. Maybe 1 plus Ceballos if we can do a deal for him.

[Letters]

Hopefully we can sign someone like Bissouma to play alongside Partey next season and relegate Xhaka to warming the half time snacks.
FYP <_<

[Bumble]

That first handball has to be a pen based on previous decisions this season. Wouldn't be against it changing in the future as it's played at point blank range, but that's not the point.

Don't know if all fans say this about their team, but we really have no luck whatsoever with the VAR decisions.

didnt we only get a VAR decision go for us last week. all this exciting football just blurs into one long long season

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't blame Xhaka. Arteta keeps picking him.

Arteta has failed.

He failed because he hasn't done anything substantially different to the shitpile Wenger or the shitpile Emery.

How many years is it now putting up with dogshit players who, for some reason, win the manager's affections?

And, I wonder, why did Wenger, Emery AND Arteta all fail? Because they are shit managers? Wenger's early years would prove otherwise. Emery had a track record. Arteta we don't know about because he has no record. Can it just be 3 shit managers?

Or is it a broken club run by shit people?

Whatever, it's a whole lot of shit.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Xhaka's inability to make a pass without looking down at the ball before playing it was bound to cause a fuck-up at some point.

I've probably mentioned this shit technique of his before on here but it's worth pointing out again.

[Mac76]

Oh yeah, because they've been sweeping all before them recently...

But they'll beat us, it's the way of things

[Mac76]

Xhaka should clearly be killed

:gp: :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

He needs the freedom of the pitch to be of any use. You only have to see how many times he gets caught in possession but somehow wins fouls by going down to cover his tracks. You can’t rely on a player like that to be a midfield rock.

He’s probably a wizard in training because there’s no intensity and that’s what his coaches see.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Does anyone know what the ratings are like for football and/or matches involving Arsenal?

I can’t imagine there are too many watching a full 90 minutes for what passes as professional football these days.

[Letters]

But they'll beat us, it's the way of things

Is it though?
As crappy as we’ve been of late, Spurs haven’t beaten us at our place for ages.
I’m ignoring the league cup game where the teams are often a bit mixed.
Things are a bit different right now with no fans but I certainly wouldn’t make them favourites.

[selassie]

My opinion in Xhaka is that he has improved but he is still a walking time bomb. He can't beat the press, never has been able to, never will be able to.

I personally don't see how he fits into what I see as Arteta's "Long term vision of the team or this process nonsense we keep on hearing".

What we saw from Xhaka yesterday we will see time and time again because he makes mistakes (lots of them) and he struggles to beat the press.

This is on Arteta now, if he wants to make Xhaka an important part of the team, it seems that way, then he needs to held accountable for Xhaka's suicidal mistakes which happen around half a dozen times a season, Xhaka costs us points.

[selassie]

But they'll beat us, it's the way of things

Yep, i think they will too, sad isn't it?

[selassie]

Is it though?
As crappy as we’ve been of late, Spurs haven’t beaten us at our place for ages.
I’m ignoring the league cup game where the teams are often a bit mixed.
Things are a bit different right now with no fans but I certainly wouldn’t make them favourites.

Every game is a roll of the dice with this team, I mean there are certain games like City which are guaranteed write offs but I honestly don't know which Arsenal will turn up. I couldn't tell you what I honestly think will be the results of the next few games, Olympiakos, Spuds etc.

We have Liverpool coming up in a few weeks time and I guarantee you we will make them look great irrespective of the final result.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mourinho normally finds a way to mug us off so I am expecting a defeat too.

[Letters]

I don't think his voodoo is as strong as it used to be but Spurs have started to pick up a bit of form while we are flailing again a bit.

:ilt:

[Marc Overmars]

We’re at home so there’s always a chance against Spurs but yeah it’s Mourinho and he gets a kick out of taking points off us in particular.

[IBK]

My opinion in Xhaka is that he has improved but he is still a walking time bomb. He can't beat the press, never has been able to, never will be able to.

I personally don't see how he fits into what I see as Arteta's "Long term vision of the team or this process nonsense we keep on hearing".

What we saw from Xhaka yesterday we will see time and time again because he makes mistakes (lots of them) and he struggles to beat the press.

This is on Arteta now, if he wants to make Xhaka an important part of the team, it seems that way, then he needs to held accountable for Xhaka's suicidal mistakes which happen around half a dozen times a season, Xhaka costs us points.

I agree with you and others that Xhaka is an accident witing to happen. He encapsulates this team in so many ways. He has been playing well, and every time he does so, we fall into the trap of thinking that maybe, just maybe, there is something to build on - but then he reminds us of who he is. He is a decent footballer and does some things well, but being a good player is more than technical ability - its mentality and decision making, and knowing what do do at the appropriate time. He repeatedly fails in this department. He is by all accounts a good and dilligent leader, but undermines this by his example when the chips are down. These descriptions are interchangeable with Arteta's team in general.

I've heard people say 'what can the manager do when we are continually undone by individual errors?'. Well you can say that a bad mistake on the pitch is not the manager's fault, but when these mistakes keep repeating themselves you have to look at Arteta. Its the manager's decision making that persists with passing out from the back when every manager in the league now looks to exploit the inevitable errors that we will make doing this. It's the manager's infexibility that compounds this by making passing out a rigid absolute - whatever the circumstances and whoever we are playing (a rigidity that often also stifles us going forwards). It's the manager's naivity that does not seem to school the players into knowing when to play safe; and its the manager's failure to ensure the players are switched on and mindful that does nothing to make up for the innate stupidity that so many have shown under his tenure.

It's easy to think that people are over-reacting to a game that we drew, and but for being fucked by the excrable VAR would have won, but we are all sick to the teeth of this team beating itself - time after time after time. You can take this once or twice per season, but how many points now have we basically thrown down the toilet for no reason? I am willing to bet that we would be close to top 4 - despite the pre-Christmas meltdown - if players had not made such easily avoidable basic errors. We are sick of keeping the failth and getting behind a team showing signs of progress, only for all momentum being sucked away by lack of concentration and discipline - something that is easily within the gift of every EPL team.

This having been said, why does Arteta keep picking Xhaka? Because there is noone else to play. Errors or no errors, he is clearly better than Elneny and Ceballos has a mistake in him and is totally anonymous 50% of the times he plays. Despite what I say above, I can understand why Arteta plays Xhaka because of what he does well - and strictly football-wise, the manager has compensated for his lack of pace by not making him the pivot in MF. Xhaka was not the only reason why they scored. Why did the GK risk the pass to him when Burnley were pressing? Why did we play with no urgency after the goal until the final 20 mins? And our forwards can be charged with the same lack of composure as Xhaka with their woeful finishing.

I have been a flag-waver for our recent progress. But results and performances like this raise serious questions about whether our 'progress' is a team that flatters to deceive and will continue to do so. The table doesn't lie. We are mid-table mediocre, and there comes a time when this is not an aberration, but a true indication of the quality of this team.

[Chippy]

Yep, i think they will too, sad isn't it?

Very sad :(

Especially as "PG Tips" Bale is bang on form.

There is always next year :d

[Letters]

They're not all that. They've had a few decent results - all against poor sides.
They only just squeezed past Fulham and got a bit lucky with a VAR call.
They're not much better than us, if at all.

[Mac76]

They're not all that. They've had a few decent results - all against poor sides.
They only just squeezed past Fulham and got a bit lucky with a VAR call.
They're not much better than us, if at all.

but they will get a dodgy pel and we will get a blatant pel disallowed - the refs will make sure they win

[selassie]

I agree with you and others that Xhaka is an accident witing to happen. He encapsulates this team in so many ways. He has been playing well, and every time he does so, we fall into the trap of thinking that maybe, just maybe, there is something to build on - but then he reminds us of who he is. He is a decent footballer and does some things well, but being a good player is more than technical ability - its mentality and decision making, and knowing what do do at the appropriate time. He repeatedly fails in this department. He is by all accounts a good and dilligent leader, but undermines this by his example when the chips are down. These descriptions are interchangeable with Arteta's team in general.

I've heard people say 'what can the manager do when we are continually undone by individual errors?'. Well you can say that a bad mistake on the pitch is not the manager's fault, but when these mistakes keep repeating themselves you have to look at Arteta. Its the manager's decision making that persists with passing out from the back when every manager in the league now looks to exploit the inevitable errors that we will make doing this. It's the manager's infexibility that compounds this by making passing out a rigid absolute - whatever the circumstances and whoever we are playing (a rigidity that often also stifles us going forwards). It's the manager's naivity that does not seem to school the players into knowing when to play safe; and its the manager's failure to ensure the players are switched on and mindful that does nothing to make up for the innate stupidity that so many have shown under his tenure.

It's easy to think that people are over-reacting to a game that we drew, and but for being fucked by the excrable VAR would have won, but we are all sick to the teeth of this team beating itself - time after time after time. You can take this once or twice per season, but how many points now have we basically thrown down the toilet for no reason? I am willing to bet that we would be close to top 4 - despite the pre-Christmas meltdown - if players had not made such easily avoidable basic errors. We are sick of keeping the failth and getting behind a team showing signs of progress, only for all momentum being sucked away by lack of concentration and discipline - something that is easily within the gift of every EPL team.

This having been said, why does Arteta keep picking Xhaka? Because there is noone else to play. Errors or no errors, he is clearly better than Elneny and Ceballos has a mistake in him and is totally anonymous 50% of the times he plays. Despite what I say above, I can understand why Arteta plays Xhaka because of what he does well - and strictly football-wise, the manager has compensated for his lack of pace by not making him the pivot in MF. Xhaka was not the only reason why they scored. Why did the GK risk the pass to him when Burnley were pressing? Why did we play with no urgency after the goal until the final 20 mins? And our forwards can be charged with the same lack of composure as Xhaka with their woeful finishing.

I have been a flag-waver for our recent progress. But results and performances like this raise serious questions about whether our 'progress' is a team that flatters to deceive and will continue to do so. The table doesn't lie. We are mid-table mediocre, and there comes a time when this is not an aberration, but a true indication of the quality of this team.

Great post as always IBK, I agree with all of your points and it does basically come down to a team and management issue.

I do think there has been some signs of progress in as much as that we seem to be developing an identity of sorts, and look exciting at times. I do think on our day we can be a very good side, but the flipside to that is we can be very poor side too. This Arsenal team is the true definition of "Jekyl and Hyde", I honestly cannot predict the result of any of our fixtures, not one of them.

Quality wise, I believe the team is underperforming, we are clearly not good enough to challenge for the title, but a top 4-7 push considering the teams we see up there this season shouldn't be beyond this team, yet for the second season running we find ourselves absolutely nowhere the top 4 and more likely finishing 10th or thereabouts.

I'm not privy to our finances or what Arteta and Edu plan to do with the squad in the summer, but we need to rebuild further by actually improving the first XI. This will come at either a cost....or more likely will come through really shrewd investments, because we certainly can't have the pulling power we once had if we continue to finish midtable and I question whether we have the finances to geniunely upgrade the team with quality players.

[IBK]

Great post as always IBK, I agree with all of your points and it does basically come down to a team and management issue.

I do think there has been some signs of progress in as much as that we seem to be developing an identity of sorts, and look exciting at times. I do think on our day we can be a very good side, but the flipside to that is we can be very poor side too. This Arsenal team is the true definition of "Jekyl and Hyde", I honestly cannot predict the result of any of our fixtures, not one of them.

Quality wise, I believe the team is underperforming, we are clearly not good enough to challenge for the title, but a top 4-7 push considering the teams we see up there this season shouldn't be beyond this team, yet for the second season running we find ourselves absolutely nowhere the top 4 and more likely finishing 10th or thereabouts.

I'm not privy to our finances or what Arteta and Edu plan to do with the squad in the summer, but we need to rebuild further by actually improving the first XI. This will come at either a cost....or more likely will come through really shrewd investments, because we certainly can't have the pulling power we once had if we continue to finish midtable and I question whether we have the finances to geniunely upgrade the team with quality players.

2 stand out observations from your post, mate (highlighted). And I think that these (in a very Arsenal way) present both concerns and reasons for hope.

It sounds odd when we have been discussing Xhaka's shortcomings; our inefficiency in front of goal and why we gift points to the oppositon, but our players are better than our league position. The standard reaction of many fans is that we need better players, but bar 1 or 2 upgrades, I think that we have the quality to challenge for top 4. The fallacy is that we have not spent enough. We have spent plenty. We are 4th (I think) in net spend over the past few seasons! I'll grant that we have not been astute - and in particular our player sales have been an unmitgated disaster - as have decisions such as the one that saw Emery walk with a £10M pay off. But we simply cannot hide behind funding. One thing that Arteta has achieved (whether by luck or by judgment) is a first 11 plus back ups in most areas of reasonable quality. His coaching seems to have improved several players footballing wise - yes even Xhaka!

What has not improved in tandem is decision-making; efficiency and consistency. This is why we cannot predict results and is our massive Achilles' heel. And I honestly don't know whether this is something that will improve under Arteta or whether it is a management defect that will continue under him. Is it, for example, a consequence of players being over coached - caught between over complex directions and being able to play their natural game? Or is it the result of the pressure that our inconsistency and pre-Christmas disaster generates - that means that every game against any opposition has the feel of a cup final - with nerves to match?

The season currently has the feel of a vicious circle, where results generate belief that we can progress - only for unexpected failure to put us back in the area of uncertainty. I am still prepared to hope that the consistency will come and turn into a more virtuous circle, but this cannot go on indefinitely. Despite good performances at times, the reality is that Arteta continues to underperform - with the resources at his disposal - in terms of results.

[Mac76]

2 stand out observations from your post, mate (highlighted). And I think that these (in a very Arsenal way) present both concerns and reasons for hope.

It sounds odd when we have been discussing Xhaka's shortcomings; our inefficiency in front of goal and why we gift points to the oppositon, but our players are better than our league position. The standard reaction of many fans is that we need better players, but bar 1 or 2 upgrades, I think that we have the quality to challenge for top 4. The fallacy is that we have not spent enough. We have spent plenty. We are 4th (I think) in net spend over the past few seasons! I'll grant that we have not been astute - and in particular our player sales have been an unmitgated disaster - as have decisions such as the one that saw Emery walk with a £10M pay off. But we simply cannot hide behind funding. One thing that Arteta has achieved (whether by luck or by judgment) is a first 11 plus back ups in most areas of reasonable quality. His coaching seems to have improved several players footballing wise - yes even Xhaka!

What has not improved in tandem is decision-making; efficiency and consistency. This is why we cannot predict results and is our massive Achilles' heel. And I honestly don't know whether this is something that will improve under Arteta or whether it is a management defect that will continue under him. Is it, for example, a consequence of players being over coached - caught between over complex directions and being able to play their natural game? Or is it the result of the pressure that our inconsistency and pre-Christmas disaster generates - that means that every game against any opposition has the feel of a cup final - with nerves to match?

The season currently has the feel of a vicious circle, where results generate belief that we can progress - only for unexpected failure to put us back in the area of uncertainty. I am still prepared to hope that the consistency will come and turn into a more virtuous circle, but this cannot go on indefinitely. Despite good performances at times, the reality is that Arteta continues to underperform - with the resources at his disposal - in terms of results.

very good, i agree with all of that

we're undoubtedly suffering from the fact that Arteta is learning on the job, something he should have done in the championship, or at Fulham or somewhere, not at Arsenal

funnily enough i do think he'll learn in time but it's cost us this season and who knows how much better - or not - we'll be next season?

[Letters]

we're undoubtedly suffering from the fact that Arteta is learning on the job, something he should have done in the championship, or at Fulham or somewhere, not at Arsenal
:gp:

It was a strange appointment. But I do think there's something about him and if we've wasted a season while he learns then I can live with that if he comes good.
Still not sure if he will.

[IBK]

very good, i agree with all of that

we're undoubtedly suffering from the fact that Arteta is learning on the job, something he should have done in the championship, or at Fulham or somewhere, not at Arsenal

funnily enough i do think he'll learn in time but it's cost us this season and who knows how much better - or not - we'll be next season?

:gp:

That's it in a nutshell really. As Letters says, we are committed not, so not sure there's any real alternative but to stick with the decision that has been made. For me the jury's still out on whether we will come good with more experience for the manager. It seems to me that Arteta is a bit back to front. I think he has tactical acumen and good ideas, and he seems to have got some structure and balance now (I'll accept that it was inexperience that led to our situation in the first half of the season). But logic says that team discipline and approach - and concentration are the basics. I mean the worst teams in the league all have this - even if their tactics are basic and their players are less talented. Do our errors and lapses of judgment result from managerial inexperience?

[selassie]

2 stand out observations from your post, mate (highlighted). And I think that these (in a very Arsenal way) present both concerns and reasons for hope.

It sounds odd when we have been discussing Xhaka's shortcomings; our inefficiency in front of goal and why we gift points to the oppositon, but our players are better than our league position. The standard reaction of many fans is that we need better players, but bar 1 or 2 upgrades, I think that we have the quality to challenge for top 4. The fallacy is that we have not spent enough. We have spent plenty. We are 4th (I think) in net spend over the past few seasons! I'll grant that we have not been astute - and in particular our player sales have been an unmitgated disaster - as have decisions such as the one that saw Emery walk with a £10M pay off. But we simply cannot hide behind funding. One thing that Arteta has achieved (whether by luck or by judgment) is a first 11 plus back ups in most areas of reasonable quality. His coaching seems to have improved several players footballing wise - yes even Xhaka!

What has not improved in tandem is decision-making; efficiency and consistency. This is why we cannot predict results and is our massive Achilles' heel. And I honestly don't know whether this is something that will improve under Arteta or whether it is a management defect that will continue under him. Is it, for example, a consequence of players being over coached - caught between over complex directions and being able to play their natural game? Or is it the result of the pressure that our inconsistency and pre-Christmas disaster generates - that means that every game against any opposition has the feel of a cup final - with nerves to match?

The season currently has the feel of a vicious circle, where results generate belief that we can progress - only for unexpected failure to put us back in the area of uncertainty. I am still prepared to hope that the consistency will come and turn into a more virtuous circle, but this cannot go on indefinitely. Despite good performances at times, the reality is that Arteta continues to underperform - with the resources at his disposal - in terms of results.

Yep, I'm with you.

This season is a write-off of sorts, Top 4 has gone, a Top 7 finish while possible is unlikely given our inconsistent form and results. Same applies to the Europa, we are good enough to win it on our day, but I don't believe we will.

From next season I am going to judge Arteta on a "results only" basis. The honeymoon period is over now and he has to make it work, another season fumbling around the lower end of midtable is absolutely not acceptable.

Arteta and Edu have done a relatively good job gutting the squad this season, but there is still a fair bit of work to do and the team needs to improve now and start challenging top 4 from next season.

[Mac76]

Yep, I'm with you.

This season is a write-off of sorts, Top 4 has gone, a Top 7 finish while possible is unlikely given our inconsistent form and results. Same applies to the Europa, we are good enough to win it on our day, but I don't believe we will.

From next season I am going to judge Arteta on a "results only" basis. The honeymoon period is over now and he has to make it work, another season fumbling around the lower end of midtable is absolutely not acceptable.

Arteta and Edu have done a relatively good job gutting the squad this season, but there is still a fair bit of work to do and the team needs to improve now and start challenging top 4 from next season.

for me an absolute key weather gauge will be their approach to Xhaka this summer - my understanding is that it's either a new contract or ship him out this summer.

if we offer him a new contract it shows Arteta has learnt nothing and is still buying into whatever Xhaka's con-trick is on the training ground that fooled both Emery and Arteta.

if we get rid of him it shows they realise that we need better

same goes for Luiz

[selassie]

for me an absolute key weather gauge will be their approach to Xhaka this summer - my understanding is that it's either a new contract or ship him out this summer.

if we offer him a new contract it shows Arteta has learnt nothing and is still buying into whatever Xhaka's con-trick is on the training ground that fooled both Emery and Arteta.

if we get rid of him it shows they realise that we need better

same goes for Luiz

Aye, Arteta certainly needs to be a lot more flexible with his team selections. Xhaka and Luiz appear to be important players in a Arteta "Arsenal" team, in Luiz's case I believe he is very replaceable with the options we have now, more so if Saliba comes back into the fold in the Summer.

Xhaka I can understand why he gets picks, our midfield options outside of Partey are poverty. I'd happily get rid of them all with the exception of Partey and Xhaka (as a squad option, not starter).

Willian is another problem player, he shouldn't be getting starts ahead of Pepe, it makes no sense whatsoever.

[IBK]

for me an absolute key weather gauge will be their approach to Xhaka this summer - my understanding is that it's either a new contract or ship him out this summer.

if we offer him a new contract it shows Arteta has learnt nothing and is still buying into whatever Xhaka's con-trick is on the training ground that fooled both Emery and Arteta.

if we get rid of him it shows they realise that we need better

same goes for Luiz

Yes - I'd go with that. Can't see Xhaka as a back up MF either so it's all about getting a quality partner for Partey. For back up - how is AMN doing in MF for WBA? Personally I don't favour keeping Ceballos either. So will the probem be avoiding too many changes? Can't see more than 1 CM coming in...

[Mac76]

Yes - I'd go with that. Can't see Xhaka as a back up MF either so it's all about getting a quality partner for Partey. For back up - how is AMN doing in MF for WBA? Personally I don't favour keeping Ceballos either. So will the probem be avoiding too many changes? Can't see more than 1 CM coming in...

from the little i've seesn on MOTD AMN's been doing well but as more of an attacking MF

if the alternative is Xhaka then i'd prefer to have Elneny or even Chambers alongside Partey - neither Chambo or Elneny are as slow or clumsy as Xhaka who is definitely surplus to requiremetns IMO

[IBK]

from the little i've seesn on MOTD AMN's been doing well but as more of an attacking MF

if the alternative is Xhaka then i'd prefer to have Elneny or even Chambers alongside Partey - neither Chambo or Elneny are as slow or clumsy as Xhaka who is definitely surplus to requiremetns IMO

Hmmm Chambers - he did well as a DM for Fulham, right?

Re Xhaka, the bottom line is whether the 8 points he will cost us per season would be matched by the points lost going forwards with, say, Elneny playing?

[Mac76]

Hmmm Chambers - he did well as a DM for Fulham, right?

Re Xhaka, the bottom line is whether the 8 points he will cost us per season would be matched by the points lost going forwards with, say, Elneny playing?

so Elneny sweeps up while Partey takes it forward, also Elneny can play forward too, though he undoubtedly verges towards safety-first but we need some people on the pitch like that I'd argue

[IBK]

so Elneny sweeps up while Partey takes it forward, also Elneny can play forward too, though he undoubtedly verges towards safety-first but we need some people on the pitch like that I'd argue

OK in principle, but firstly, I think we can probably do better than Elneny. Other than the Manu away game, he's done nothink this season other than show he is bang average. Secondly, we need to see whether Partey can last more than 4/5 games on the trot before we can really build a team around him.

I'll say that for Xhaka. He is never injured!

[Mac76]

I'll say that for Xhaka. He is never injured!

more's the pity, but i guess at the speed he goes it's hard to get any kind of muscle strain or impact injury... :lol:

[selassie]

so Elneny sweeps up while Partey takes it forward, also Elneny can play forward too, though he undoubtedly verges towards safety-first but we need some people on the pitch like that I'd argue

Mac!!!

Admit you just hate Xhaka? I'm no big fan of Xhaka either but Elneny is not an improvement on him! We need an upgrade on both, it will cost us too.

[GP]

Elneny is obviously not an improvement on Xhaka.

I quite like Xhaka, but he's someone that can be improved on.

[Marc Overmars]

Elneny is about as average as it gets. I’m sure he’ll be sold at the earliest opportunity.

[Mac76]

Mac!!!

Admit you just hate Xhaka? I'm no big fan of Xhaka either but Elneny is not an improvement on him! We need an upgrade on both, it will cost us too.

oh absolutely i hate Xhaka :lol:

i also think i'm someone who values reliability higher than some people, and Elneny is reliable albeit he's obviously not a regular first-team pick but i think people like him and Callum Chambers are useful to have around.

i think it's true he'll probably be moved on but I'm just saying if it was a choice between him or Xhaka i'd keep Elneny.

[selassie]

oh absolutely i hate Xhaka :lol:

i also think i'm someone who values reliability higher than some people, and Elneny is reliable albeit he's obviously not a regular first-team pick but i think people like him and Callum Chambers are useful to have around.

i think it's true he'll probably be moved on but I'm just saying if it was a choice between him or Xhaka i'd keep Elneny.

:lol: at the Xhaka hate bit.

Fair points, I'm not that far away from you in my opinion of Xhaka.

[Letters]

oh absolutely i hate Xhaka :lol:
You hide it so well!

[Mac76]

You hide it so well!

:lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

What’s happened to Torriera ?

I know he is on loan at Madrid but I haven’t followed any of his performances so dont know if he is playing well or not.

But i remember in his first season, some of his performances were superb such as Liverpool & spurs at home. I’d much rather try and play him next season then Xhaka or Elneny but i think he is another one Arteta froze out on the basis that he isn’t called willian

[selassie]

You hide it so well!

:lol:

[Mac76]

Elneny is obviously not an improvement on Xhaka.


:pal:

[GP]

:pal:

Still true

[Letters]

GP :haha:

[Mac76]

:lol:

[IBK]

Still true

Yep. Still true.

[selassie]

:d