Palace vs Arsenal - August 21st KO: 20:00

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have this game as a nailed on defeat because it’s the kind of game we do lose, everyone expects us to win. On top of that we can’t score goals and we are letting them in at the other end.


Even without Zaha, a physical striker like Edouard or pacey players like Eze or Olise can cause us problems.


I’m going 1-0 to Palace. Lots of huff and puff but ultimately a defeat from carelessness in possession allowing them to hit us on the break.

[Mac76]

This thread should be called 'Palace v Arsenal' given we're away :rolleyes:

Anyway, 3-0 Edouard hatter

[HCZ_Reborn]

This thread should be called 'Palace v Arsenal' given we're away :rolleyes:

Anyway, 3-0 Edouard hatter


Pedantry but technically correct

[fakeyank]

5-0 Arsenal win. Nketiah with all 5 goals.

[Mac76]

Pedantry but technically correct

It's hardly pedantry to point put that football fixtures are always written home team first, it's a schoolboy error

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's hardly pedantry to point put that football fixtures are always written home team first, it's a schoolboy error

You’re worse than me for being argumentative. Yes it is pedantic, there’s nothing that says it’s being played at the Emirates stadium. Everyone on here (which is less than a dozen) know it’s an away fixture. So yes as I’ve already conceded technically you always show the home side first….but who gives a fuck?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sorry I should clarify those remarks, obviously you care about it. Who that matters gives a fuck I should have said

[Mac76]

Gosh, someone doesn't like their mistakes pointed out do they, or indeed admitting to them, sounds like almost Arteta-level insecurity ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gosh, someone doesn't like their mistakes pointed out do they, or indeed admitting to them, sounds like almost Arteta-level insecurity ;)

Oh dear :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

5-0 Arsenal win. Nketiah with all 5 goals.

Probably not the scoreline, but we'll probably win.

One thing for sure though is we won't lose this one.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m convinced we will, our two previous defeats at Palace have both been Monday night games. Both 3-0 as well (though don’t think we will lose by that much).

[Mac76]

Probably not the scoreline, but we'll probably win.

One thing for sure though is we won't lose this one.

That sounds awfully like tempting fate to me, we'll all know who to blame when it goes pear-shaped... :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That sounds awfully like tempting fate to me, we'll all know who to blame when it goes pear-shaped... :lol:

Zinchenko.

[Mac76]

Zinchenko.

:lol:

[Letters]

I’m convinced we will, our two previous defeats at Palace have both been Monday night games. Both 3-0 as well (though don’t think we will lose by that much).

You were also certain we wouldn’t win our first game.
#justsaying

[HCZ_Reborn]

You were also certain we wouldn’t win our first game.
#justsaying

Yes

[Niall_Quinn]

This should be an extremely straightforward win. Will probably give a stupid goal away, so 3-1. Somebody let me know the result when it's over.

[Marc Overmars]

More confident in our ability to shut down a game away from home so I would expect this to be a win. Palace have some tricky players who could definitely cause us problems on the break if we’re not switched on, but I think we should have more than enough quality to get the job done.

Also could the thread title be adjusted please? It’s playing havoc with my OCD.

[HCZ_Reborn]

For me the issue is not closing out a game, was confident that we would do that even last week.

It’s about a) creating enough chances to score sufficient goals and b) how we prevent conceding silly goals to end up going behind, and then how we come from behind if we do.

[Mac76]

Also could the thread title be adjusted please? It’s playing havoc with my OCD.

seconded :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://i.imgflip.com/7wewkb.jpg

[Letters]

Also could the thread title be adjusted please? It’s playing havoc with my OCD.
Done.


Not all heroes wear capes :cool:

[Mac76]

Done.


Not all heroes wear capes :cool:

my sincere thanks :good:

[Mac76]

https://i.imgflip.com/7wewkb.jpg

oh dear :lol:

[Letters]

I probably don’t matter either tbf

[HCZ_Reborn]

I probably don’t matter either tbf

Goes without saying

[LDG]

I have this game as a nailed on defeat because it’s the kind of game we do lose, everyone expects us to win. On top of that we can’t score goals and we are letting them in at the other end.


Even without Zaha, a physical striker like Edouard or pacey players like Eze or Olise can cause us problems.


I’m going 1-0 to Palace. Lots of huff and puff but ultimately a defeat from carelessness in possession allowing them to hit us on the break.

Olise is injured

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arteta seemingly content with the absolutely diabolical lineup he put out last time, puts it out again changing only Tomoyasu for Timber.

Well I’m confident with my prediction

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Crystal Palace: Johnstone, Ward, Guehi, Andersen, Mitchell, Lerma, Schlupp, Doucoure, Ayew, Eze, Edouard.
Subs: Matthews, Tomkins, Clyne, Richards, Ahamada, Gordon, Riedewald, Rak-Sakyi.

Arsenal: Ramsdale, Partey, White, Saliba, Tomiyasu, Rice, Havertz, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah.
Subs: Raya, Zinchenko, Kiwior, Gabriel, Jorginho, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Vieira, Trossard.

[mandela8]

What does Trossard have to do to start? :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trossard should be playing in central midfield with Partey, Havertz playing the no10 role (with Odegaard dropped). Tierney should be playing left back, Tomoyasu right back (White isn’t a right back)

Should be no Rice, no White, no Odegaard in starting line up

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Crystal Palace: Johnstone, Ward, Guehi, Andersen, Mitchell, Lerma, Schlupp, Doucoure, Ayew, Eze, Edouard.
Subs: Matthews, Tomkins, Clyne, Richards, Ahamada, Gordon, Riedewald, Rak-Sakyi.

Arsenal: Ramsdale, Partey, White, Saliba, Tomiyasu, Rice, Havertz, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah.
Subs: Raya, Zinchenko, Kiwior, Gabriel, Jorginho, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Vieira, Trossard.

Not happy with Tomi starting if he intends to play a back 3.

Palace will get a goal in this game

[Marc Overmars]

Has Gabriel picked up a knock or is White actually the preferred partner for Saliba now?

Just don’t see how this line up works really. Square pegs in round holes everywhere you look.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Come on Arsenal. :bow:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

What does Trossard have to do to start? :haha:

We'll soon be hearing he's looking to leave and we all know whose fault it'll be.

Starting this season the way he did most of last season, favourites and not on performances.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Come on Arsenal. :bow:

Yeah, time to get behind them....I still think we'll win, but we've made it harder than it needs to be and it seems we won't be leaving with a clean sheet

[Mac76]

What does Trossard have to do to start? :haha:

be signed for a stupid amount of money i think - his crime is to have been bought for a reasonable amount which means Arteta can leave him out without too much fuss

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli could have struck that earlier.

[Mac76]

Has Gabriel picked up a knock or is White actually the preferred partner for Saliba now?

Just don’t see how this line up works really. Square pegs in round holes everywhere you look.

you've got to hope Gabriel has an issue of some kind otherwise it's insane to leave him out

but then as you say most of the lineup is insane

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Saliba.:bow:

[Mac76]

sounds really quiet, i thought Palace was supposed to have a big home atmosphere...? :shrug:

[Mac76]

Tomi's being roasted by Ayew, if only we had a proper left back to play in that position... :rolleyes:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ayew booked.

[Marc Overmars]

Eddie hits the post

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nketiah has to bury those chances.

[Marc Overmars]

Eddie in but fucks it up completely.

That’s why you’re never going to be a top striker mate.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nketiah. :haha:

[Mac76]

Eddie :haha:

[Mac76]

Odegaard's looking a bit lost in this setup, with Rice and Havertz plus Saka is coming deep a lot then White is marauding up field sometimes, not leaving him a lot of room to operate

[Globalgunner]

Saliba almost dropped a clanger there miscontrolled an easy ball and almost have away a pen. we are not looking too clever

[Marc Overmars]

Saliba almost dropped a clanger there miscontrolled an easy ball and almost have away a pen. we are not looking too clever

At least he’s capable of making that recovery. If it was White he’d have been cooked.

[Mac76]

Odegaard's looking a bit lost in this setup, with Rice and Havertz plus Saka is coming deep a lot then White is marauding up field sometimes, not leaving him a lot of room to operate

that said it was a decent shot just then

[Mac76]

Martinelli...

[KSE Comedy Club]

What the actual fuck is going on here???

We are fucking about with the ball too much, playing slow and making it easy for them to defend.

Dogshit to watch as well, I'm falling asleep...

[Marc Overmars]

HT 0-0

Should be winning but Eddie Nketiah is up front.

[KSE Comedy Club]

sounds really quiet, i thought Palace was supposed to have a big home atmosphere...? :shrug:

We are boring the shit out of everyone

[LDG]

Martinelli is bloody awful tonight

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-0 HT. Trossard coming on is a must tbf.

[Globalgunner]

At least 4 passengers in this team. But our genius wont shake it up till we are behind. Elite manager

[Mac76]

0-0 looking a bit toothless so far, also the defence again doesn't look watertight

[Mac76]

That starting lineup is such a mess it's hard to work out how to fix it without usigng at least 4 subs

as a bare minimum he needs to take off Eddie and Tomi and bring on Tierney and Trossard

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

At least 4 passengers in this team. But our genius wont shake it up till we are behind. Elite manager

:gp:

I thought the dark days of passengers were gone once Xhaka left only for Arteta to go back for more Bundesliga dross at £65m.... you can't make this shit up.

Trossard needs to be in this game ASAP and we should be taking a Tomi out for someone competent....is Zinchenko fit??

[Mac76]

Trossard needs to be in this game ASAP and we should be taking a Tomi out for someone competent....is Zinchenko fit??

what, you want Zin to come on and clog up the midfield with pointless passes and then give the ball away for a scoring chance to Palace?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW Rice has been quite good today and if he got a decent chance I could see him scoring.

Hasn't put a foot wrong in anything he's done and practically dictating our play. Seems to be learning pretty fast.

Odegaard has been below average again, as usual. Will probably start playing well this season when there is nothing left to play for.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

what, you want Zin to come on and clog up the midfield with pointless passes and then give the ball away for a scoring chance to Palace?

Tomi is faring worse and only lucky the Ref has slowed Ayew down with an unfair yellow. He can't play a 3 man defence and I am not willing to wait another 45 mins for the blaring obvious.

[Mac76]

Tomi is fairing far worse and only lucky the Ref has slowed Ayew down with an unfair yellow. He can't play a 3 man defence and I am not willing to wait another 45 mins for the blaring obvious.

that's why we should bring on Tierney, the game is crying out for the directness he has in attack plus of course his defending, Ayew's got Tomi on toast

[HCZ_Reborn]

That starting lineup is such a mess it's hard to work out how to fix it without usigng at least 4 subs

as a bare minimum he needs to take off Eddie and Tomi and bring on Tierney and Trossard

Take off White for Tierney, put Tomoyasu at right back considering Saka dropping deeper to win the ball anyway.

Take off Odegaard for Trossard, put Havertz in the Odegaard role and have Trossard playing deeper.

Keep Nketiah on, he may have fluffed a sitter but he’s at least making himself available for attacking moves

[Mac76]

BTW Rice has been quite good today and if he got a decent chance I could see him scoring.

Hasn't put a foot wring in anything he's done and practically dictating our play. Seems to be learning pretty fast.

Odegaard has been below average again, as usual. Will probably start playing well this season when there is nothing left to play for.

agree, Rice has been good and as said above Odegaard's looking like a spare part today

[HCZ_Reborn]

agree, Rice has been good and as said above Odegaard's looking like a spare part today

He’s looking good because there’s no need for him in the game. He’s under no pressure whatsoever. It’s the way Ramsey could play well when players stayed so far away from him, you’d think he’d shat himself. I’d keep him on just in case Palace become more ambitious but other than that, doesn’t impress me

[HCZ_Reborn]

Pel

[McNamara That Ghost...]

PELANTY!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Why is Odegaard taking penalties? Weird

[McNamara That Ghost...]

ODEGAARD!! :bow:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I suppose that’s where his goals are most likely to come from. Very little prospect of him scoring from open play

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Saka is really a great team player. Once he noticed the keeper had somehow sussed him out, he let it go without a whimper.

[Mac76]

Why is Odegaard taking penalties? Weird

because he can score them?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ayew smacks the side netting.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I suppose that’s where his goals are most likely to come from. Very little prospect of him scoring from open play

:lol:

Hopefully the goal wakes him up...watching him these past few games is like being in a time machine.

[HCZ_Reborn]

because he can score them?

Based on one penalty?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

because he can score them?

Behave, he does miss.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Eze freekick over.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Eze freekick over.

Eze for you to say

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Partey smacks it, Johnstone fist.

[Marc Overmars]

Tomiyasu sent off

Moron

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Havertz hammers it, wide.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Arteta is an idiot.

An unfair yellow, but Arteta is still an idiot.

[LDG]

Fuck off.

What about Ayew tugging Saka back??

[Mac76]

pretty easy for Arteta here, take off Odegaard for Tierney

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli off, Gabriel on.

[Mac76]

pretty easy for Arteta here, take off Odegaard for Tierney

...and so he brings on Gabriel for Martinelli :ilt:

[HCZ_Reborn]

...and so he brings on Gabriel for Martinelli :ilt:

Martinelli was poor tonight, though who the hell is he playing at left back now?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:lol:

Going to be a real struggle this one.

[Mac76]

Martinelli was poor tonight, though who the hell is he playing at left back now?

looks like Saka

[HCZ_Reborn]

looks like Saka

He really hates Tierney doesn’t he? :lol: maybe he’s a homophobe

[Marc Overmars]

This is trash.

[Mac76]

our only 'attacking' players are now Havertz, Odegaard, Eddie and Rice

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nketiah off, Jorginho on.

[HCZ_Reborn]

our only 'attacking' players are now Havertz, Odegaard, Eddie and Rice

Eddie been pulled off

Figuratively speaking

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is trash.

It wasn’t that great before we were down to ten. For me if you can’t score from open play you don’t really deserve to win

[Marc Overmars]

It wasn’t that great before we were down to ten. For me if you can’t score from open play you don’t really deserve to win

We deserve the lead but it has been a slog again. Tough watch.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ward off, Rak-Sakyi on. :unsure:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good clearance from Edouard.

[Mac76]

Good clearance from Edouard.

dreadful miss

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Odegaard and Saka off, Kiwior and Zinchenko on.

Why do we need so many defenders? :lol:

[Mac76]

this lineup is like some kind of dada-ist experiment

[HCZ_Reborn]

Odegaard and Saka off, Kiwior and Zinchenko on.

Why do we need so many defenders? :lol:

Well we keep buying them, so they should get playing time

[Marc Overmars]

Imagine Havertz being your only outlet.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Havertz helping Palace get closer to our goal, harsh to yellow him for that. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mitchell. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Saliba is a colossus tbf.

[Marc Overmars]

0-1 FT

Always great to win when you’re playing shit but my god this line up needs to be reshuffled.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Palace 0-1 Arsenal, FT!!!! :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Saliba is a colossus tbf.

He is. I genuinely think we would have won the league had he stayed fit.

[LDG]

Ref made it a contest.

These are the matches we always lose according to some.

Fuck that. Get in

[Mac76]

What a miserable game – Tomi’s sending off just gave Arteta the excuse he needed to enact his wildest defensive fantasy

the second game in a row where we've been massively below par but got away with it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I hate the way Arteta's mind works.

Happy we won, but what we saw in the last 30mins was pathetic.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He is. I genuinely think we would have won the league had he stayed fit.

I think so. At least to the final day.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yep I can tell this season is going to depress me. At least last season there were goals

[Marc Overmars]

I wasn’t actually worried about conceding an equaliser, I feel like we’ve got enough good defenders now who can dig in and Palace didn’t have much ideas apart from slinging crosses in.

My takeaway from this was how much of a ramshackle operation we looked in the final third again. We need to make a change or 2 for Fulham at the weekend.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I hate the way Arteta's mind works.

Happy we won, but what we saw in the last 30mins was pathetic.

To be honest, not even happy we won…the game has had any pleasure taken out of it by Arteta…obviously horrified by the amount of goals we were scoring last season so had to put a stop to that.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We'll win the league with +38 GD. :bow:

[mandela8]

Ref made it a contest.

These are the matches we always lose according to some.

Fuck that. Get in

This

Has last season fuckin spoiled some of the mongs on here, ffs?

We've been losing those games for years.

[LDG]

Absolute shite from the ref. Ayew should have been sent off for actually pulling down Saka.

I don’t see how the ref see Tomi’s one differently.

Don’t get me wrong, when he got the first booking, Arteta should have been swapping him out as he was having a poor game anyway. But that is utter incompetence from the ref.

[Letters]

Yep I can tell this season is going to depress me. At least last season there were goals

Holy shit, dude.
Both games so far you’ve confidently predicted we’d either lose or at least wouldn’t win.
We won both and you’re still whining.
:doh:

[Letters]

This

Has last season fuckin spoiled some of the mongs on here, ffs?

We've been losing those games for years.
:gp:

The social media whining to games we’ve actually won is ridiculous.
Expectations are high this season, and I think that’s reasonable after last season and the investment over the summer. But we are winning, ffs.

[Letters]

Arteta seemingly content with the absolutely diabolical lineup he put out last time, puts it out again changing only Tomoyasu for Timber.

Well I’m confident with my prediction

:shitpost:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Holy shit, dude.
Both games so far you’ve confidently predicted we’d either lose or at least wouldn’t win.
We won both and you’re still whining.
:doh:


https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2023/01/14/this-is-fine_custom-dcb93e90c4e1548ffb16978a5a8d182270c872a9-s1100-c50.jpg

[Letters]

Holy false equivalence logical fallacy, Batman!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Holy false equivalence logical fallacy, Batman!

If you want to be satisfied with those two games, that’s entirely a matter for you. I’m not, in fact I think winning them both in the long term is not necessarily a good thing.

Playing that lineup against Forest is one thing, a failed experiment…but to persist with it against Palace. Arteta feels like he’s decided the one unequivocally enjoyable thing about last season, the amount of chances created and goals scored is unacceptable. A way of playing into the hands of teams who sit deep, intentionally avoiding any chance we have of breaking on teams.

But yeah holy shit, you can’t believe how much I’m whining when we’ve spent 600 million in four years, and not only buying only one striker in that time but actually removing almost every attacking player from the field, rather than having confidence in our superiority to both defend the lead and try and extend it.

600 million spent yet arguably Jesus isn’t an out and out striker, and the only striker we have lobs over the bar when it’s easier to score. I never expected us to spend so much money, I never demanded it in fairness…but you’d hope that if we were able to compete with the big money clubs in terms of spending we wouldn’t squander that money with signings we don’t need, neglecting areas we do. Not once, not twice, but three seasons in a row. Every fucking summer I hope to myself that we will address the areas that need addressing and that we won’t waste money on some luxury player in a position we don’t need, that invariably will be dropped.

The joke is I actually miss Xhaka, as ponderous, as much of a liability as he was…at least he was a midfielder.

The desire of selling him was prompted by the belief that he would be upgraded on, but no we spend 65million to play a burnt out German striker there.

We are putting our dicks in the lions mouth over fpp, Chelsea are getting away with it with eight year contracts (which will bite them severely long term) but how are we getting around it?. Our net spend since January 2020 is 480million, how are we possibly arguing that we are living within our means….and on top of that an aborted title run in last season we have nothing to show for it, apart from an unbalanced team that is going to struggle for goals.

But yeah totally unreasonable that I’m not happy, great six points…..trust the process :lol:

[Mac76]

I'm not as extreme as HCZ about it and yes we have two wins, but the fact is that game was horrible to watch - even before Tomi's sending off - and unless things improve pretty quickly we're going to pull up hard - we're playing like we were last season when we'd lost our ability to dominate and were counting on plucky wins at the last minute against Bournemouth - we've not even had the good bit at the beginning when we play well

what worries me is tha Arteta is claiming he'll be 'unpredictable' but in some ways he's as predictable as ever - not playing Trossard or Tierney for example

Bringing Trossard on yesterday when we were down to 10 men would have been a good way of giving Palace something else to think about in their own half

and given Arteta was wholeheartedly trying to defend, and Tierney's defending is better than any of the non-LBs Arteta plays (apart from Timber maybe), why TF wasn't Tierney introduced?

Bringing on Zin in that situation was just a joke

I really am starting to think Arteta's engaged in some secret performance art project

I can see why Rice was so important to Arteta - he provides some sensibility in a side where Arteta is basically playing a game with everyone in pretty much every other position

[Marc Overmars]

Tierney’s time here is done. It’s just a case of whether we get a decent enough offer before the deadline.

Only inverted full backs need apply.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Tierney’s time here is done. It’s just a case of whether we get a decent enough offer before the deadline.

Only inverted full backs need apply.


There’s no such thing as an inverted full back, you are either a failed midfielder or a centre back played out of position

[Letters]

The fuck is an inverted full-back anyway? I keep hearing people say that. What the hell does that mean?

[Marc Overmars]

The fuck is an inverted full-back anyway? I keep hearing people say that. What the hell does that mean?

The new trend that has the fullback moving into midfield rather than getting up and down the line.

The hipsters love it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The fuck is an inverted full-back anyway? I keep hearing people say that. What the hell does that mean?

Basically an inverted full back comes into midfield to add more presence going forward, what they are meant to do defensively is bring a wide player inside and crowd him out rather than letting him get crosses in or get behind the defence.

It’s basically what Guardiola does with City. But actually has the quality of players that can make it work.

[The Wengerbabies]

and given Arteta was wholeheartedly trying to defend, and Tierney's defending is better than any of the non-LBs Arteta plays (apart from Timber maybe), why TF wasn't Tierney introduced?

Bringing on Zin in that situation was just a joke

Tierney wasn't even on the bench. He's done.

[Niall_Quinn]

Saw the last 15 minutes of this one in passing. Fuck me, Rice looks like a bag of shit. He wants to get that shit together, no? Partey was, of course, a laughing stock every time he tried to play the ball forwards. But, he did look a hell of a lot better as a defended than a midfielder. Very industrious and better in that role than the super generous Saka. Though why was Saza playing. there anyway. And where's Martinelli?

Very odd 15 minutes of football. Granted, the ref was a pillock and tipped the game, more through incompetence than being Durkin or Bennett I'd say. Still, a very panicked rearguard action against a woeful Palace. That bloke in front of goal with the perfect cross onto his head and the surefire equaliser? If I'd have done that in school I wouldn't have been allowed to play again.

Modern footballers are so shit.

[Mac76]

The fuck is an inverted full-back anyway? I keep hearing people say that. What the hell does that mean?

In practice it means clogging up the midfield with too many players so we can't be sufficiently speedy in attack, whilst simultaneously abandoning the LB position to any half-decent opposition right-winger

[Mac76]

Tierney wasn't even on the bench. He's done.

hadn't noticed that - i hope for his sake he does go (although it will be disastrous for the prospects of this club) - he deserves to be a regular starter somewhere - if he stays in the PL I hope he comes to the Emirates and totally roasts us tbh

[HCZ_Reborn]

hadn't noticed that - i hope for his sake he does go (although it will be disastrous for the prospects of this club) - he deserves to be a regular starter somewhere - if he stays in the PL I hope he comes to the Emirates and totally roasts us tbh

So you finger wag at others for being indifferent as to whether spurs win or lose, but then also hope that an Arsenal player comes back to exact revenge on us? Interesting

I don’t even like Tierney that much truth be told. I don’t think he’s that good defensively, I think he’s too injury prone and I don’t think he’s got the hunger you’d want from a professional footballer.

But I’d pick him over Zinchenko any day of the week, because he is a left sided fullback.

[Mac76]

I don’t think he’s that good defensively

Utter rubbish he's one of the best defenders we have, ofc if he hardly gets a game and then is thrown on late-match he may take a moment or two to get up to speed but that blame lies with Arteat for allowing non-starting players to rot on the sidelines


I think he’s too injury prone

Yes he's had a couple of injuries but not for a while - admittedly he doesn't get the chance to get one nowadays but still i don't think he's any worse than, for example, Zin or Jesus for injuries and Arteta has them as nailed-on starters


I don’t think he’s got the hunger you’d want from a professional footballer

That really is the stupidest thing you've ever said - anyone who's watched him play (at LB) for five minutes knows he's one of the most energetic and committed players we have

sure when Arteta sticks him in the middle of midfield, completely out of position, he looks a like a fish out of water but again that is enteirly down to Arteta being a complete fucking idiot and nothing to do with Tierney

[HCZ_Reborn]

I could be offended by your opinion of my opinion, but then I have to remind myself that you rate Elneny so sometimes it’s just a case of putting things in their proper context.

That’ll do Pig

[Mac76]

I could be offended by your opinion of my opinion, but then I have to remind myself that you rate Elneny so sometimes it’s just a case of putting things in their proper context.

That’ll do Pig

In all seriousness anyone who ever watched Arsenal play when Tierney was playing regulalry at LB would never say he isn't hungry, it's absurd, he's just been completely demoralised by Arteta

[Marc Overmars]

Tierney was one of the breaths of fresh air during those awful lockdown seasons when the quality was so poor. He was even considered a future captain. Clearly Arteta’s obsession with the inverted role has alienated him though which is a shame. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more intense talk of him moving on, if he’s happy slumming it then so be it. :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

In all seriousness anyone who ever watched Arsenal play when Tierney was playing regulalry at LB would never say he isn't hungry, it's absurd, he's just been completely demoralised by Arteta

He was basically a more limited Saka on the left hand side, racing down the flanks and putting in crosses to no one. Now I’m not blaming him for this if no one else puts in the runs but that was the epoch of his play. And maybe it’s because he’s been injured but the last couple of years he looks like he gets out of breath and gives up, this is even before we bought Zinchenko.
Wasn’t great at stopping crosses from coming in. Blaming Arteta for a player who never consistently looked like meeting his potential seems far fetched to me. Martinelli and Saka as I say have improved despite Arteta, top hungry players thrive in adversity they don’t hide behind it

[Mac76]

He was basically a more limited Saka on the left hand side, racing down the flanks and putting in crosses to no one. Now I’m not blaming him for this if no one else puts in the runs but that was the epoch of his play. And maybe it’s because he’s been injured but the last couple of years he looks like he gets out of breath and gives up, this is even before we bought Zinchenko.
Wasn’t great at stopping crosses from coming in. Blaming Arteta for a player who never consistently looked like meeting his potential seems far fetched to me. Martinelli and Saka as I say have improved despite Arteta, top hungry players thrive in adversity they don’t hide behind it

Artrta has decided he likes Saka and Martinelli and so he has invested time in them, it's perfectly clear that where he favours a player he can as you say get more out of them, it's one of the few positives about him

Conversely, when he doesn't take to a player he invests zilch in them and simply ignores them, as we saw last season when our first 11 ran out of steam, not investing time in the rest of the squad is ultimately self-defeating and yet it's what Arteta does

[Letters]

If you want to be satisfied with those two games, that’s entirely a matter for you.
Well, I'm satisfied by the results. Isn't that what it's about?
Famously, I don't often watch full Arsenal games. But from this place and Social Media it seems like you are not alone in being less then satisfied by our start.
But...we have won the games. I saw the highlights from last night. Palace didn't have a change worthy of the name from the bits I saw. I am worried about how clinical we're not in front of goal.


But yeah holy shit, you can’t believe how much I’m whining when we’ve spent 600 million in four years, and not only buying only one striker in that time but actually removing almost every attacking player from the field, rather than having confidence in our superiority to both defend the lead and try and extend it.
How about you wait and see how the season starts shaping up? We're 2 games in, both of which you confidently predicted we'd lose or at least drop points. We've won both.
As I said previously, you don't really get a feel for how the season is going till Christmas.


But yeah totally unreasonable that I’m not happy, great six points…..trust the process :lol:
Being unhappy about our signings or performances is perfectly reasonable.
Moaning like a bastard after 2 games we've actually won seems a bit ott.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Artrta has decided he likes Saka and Martinelli and so he has invested time in them, it's perfectly clear that where he favours a player he can as you say get more out of them, it's one of the few positives about him

Conversely, when he doesn't take to a player he invest zilch in them and simply ignores them, as we saw last season when pur first 11 ran out of steam, not investing time in the rest of the squad is ultimately self-defeating and yet it's what Arteta does


Martinelli was out of the Arsenal team for well over a year, there was some claim of injury but it wasn’t anywhere near as serious as to keep him out for that long. Martinelli forced himself into contention…

Tierney went home to cry and cuddle up on the sofa with his boyfriend the club chef. Now you could be saying to me that Arteta took against Tierney because he’s homophobic or he saw a player that other than a pace merchant was limited and preferred to spend his time binge watching Orange is the New Black rather than fight for contention.

Like Martinelli did

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, I'm satisfied by the results. Isn't that what it's about?
Famously, I don't often watch full Arsenal games. But from this place and Social Media it seems like you are not alone in being less then satisfied by our start.
But...we have won the games. I saw the highlights from last night. Palace didn't have a change worthy of the name from the bits I saw. I am worried about how clinical we're not in front of goal.


How about you wait and see how the season starts shaping up? We're 2 games in, both of which you confidently predicted we'd lose or at least drop points. We've won both.
As I said previously, you don't really get a feel for how the season is going till Christmas.


Being unhappy about our signings or performances is perfectly reasonable.
Moaning like a bastard after 2 games we've actually won seems a bit ott.

Question, do you watch football. When is the last time you watched Arsenal play? And I don’t mean the two minute sky sports highlight reels

[Letters]

Question, do you watch football. When is the last time you watched Arsenal play? And I don’t mean the two minute sky sports highlight reels

I pretty much answered that. I watched the City away game last year, saw the second half of the Community Shield.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I pretty much answered that. I watched the City away game last year, saw the second half of the Community Shield.

So if your frame of reference is putting out a team to neutralise Man City which we did in the community shield although with the caveat of blunting our own attack, you might be forgiven for thinking things are ok.

Let me assure you that things in the two games since then were blind faith in a system that is failing to get the best out of our attacking players and at home is leaving us vulnerable to conceding because of how high we play.

Everything that we got right last season is being nullified by a galaxy brained coach. You say to me it’s only a couple of games in be patient. You’ve got kids right? Would you say to your child if they were forcing a star shaped object into a square hole and then getting frustrated because it won’t fit “just be patient” or would you as a caring father who wants the best for their child point out that it’s not meant to go there?

So yes it’s the double whammy of misappropriation of more than generous transfer funds but it’s also the utter waste of talent we do have in a system that knowing Arteta like we all do, know he will religiously stick to.

[Letters]

I don't actually know if things are OK. Nor do you. As I keep saying, it's early season, new players are still finding their feet.
Two wins doesn't mean everything is brilliant, two losses wouldn't mean IT'S THE END OF DAYS (although these days I don't know if anyone can start like that and be credible contenders).
But, it's August. Let's see where we are at Christmas.
Your confidence in your opinions being very correct is undermined by your equal confidence that we would lose the first game and wouldn't win the second.
And your analogy about a child is nonsensical. I know better than a 6 year old boy, you do not know better than a PL manager who had a successful playing career and whose team massively exceeded your expectations last season.

Again, it's perfectly valid to have concerns, I share the one about the lack of a proper striker. It's the level of whining I'm rolling my eyes out loud about, given that we're one of only 3 teams to have won both of our first two games.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't actually know if things are OK. Nor do you. As I keep saying, it's early season, new players are still finding their feet.
Two wins doesn't mean everything is brilliant, two losses wouldn't mean IT'S THE END OF DAYS (although these days I don't know if anyone can start like that and be credible contenders).
But, it's August. Let's see where we are at Christmas.
Your confidence in your opinions being very correct is undermined by your equal confidence that we would lose the first game and wouldn't win the second.
And your analogy about a child is nonsensical. I know better than a 6 year old boy, you do not know better than a PL manager who had a successful playing career and whose team massively exceeded your expectations last season.

Again, it's perfectly valid to have concerns, I share the one about the lack of a proper striker. It's the level of whining I'm rolling my eyes out loud about, given that we're one of only 3 teams to have won both of our first two games.

So essentially your argument comes down to an appeal to Authority, you know…I think NQ is a crank as much as he thinks I’m a gutless, pliant brainwashed serf but he does have a bit of a point when it comes to you. You do have a bit of a “ours is not to reason why” mentality about you.


So I’m countering your appeal to authority with Empiricism. Arteta has a history of Galaxy brained tactical changes and they invariably don’t work, either because like with the star in the square hole it’s not meant to go there or for all his supposed tactical brilliance he hasn’t explained what he wants from his players.

This is what is happening now. Havertz as I say is a technically gifted player, but he’s not a central midfielder. Now I can’t say Apriori that having him in that position will definitely mean that Martinelli becomes more isolated but a) that’s what’s happened so far and b) there’s good reason to believe that will continue to happen.

Now Havertz himself said his preferred position is central midfield, but in fairness so did Ainsley Maitland Niles. If you’re 18 your skill set can be adapted at 24 less so. Yes you can tweak a players primary position like Wenger did with Henry but changing someone from the wing to a centre forward is less of a drastic change than winger/striker to central midfielder.


I can’t say for definite what will happen, but being wrong about the two results hasn’t in anyway made me think more positively because at home to Forest we should have lost…our defence was so open that all they needed was a smidge of ambition and they’d have taken all three points. Not because they were better than us, we absolutely were the better team in terms of overall play, but a phalanx of spurned half chances and being so far forward that it took just one run to put them in on goal for 2-1, not to mention the other two chances they spurned.

Our overall play was better than that of Palace, they were utterly toothless but we created nothing and yet laud Declan Rice for being the best player on the park when he had nothing to do. Nuts.


Being despairing when the one thing I got unequivocal joy from last season is taken away because Reasons (our attacking play and goal scoring)…hardly seems illogical. Most Arsenal fans admittedly won’t be as downhearted as me, but most will tell you (as those on here have) that the system doesn’t work, square pegs in round holes a plenty.

But honestly I’d much prefer you actually watch games and then tell me you think I’m wrong or being over the top. Because at the moment all you have is…well we won that’s all that matters. Well winning is copacetic, people don’t question things when they’re winning and then they scratch their heads and say “I don’t get what happened” when it falls apart.

So tell you what, watch a game and then give me your opinion. Otherwise how are you any different from NQ who just knows

[HCZ_Reborn]

And to anticipate your next point, that my opinion is skewed by my dislike of him personally. I’d say it’s incidental, if I was happy with the way Arteta was doing things as a coach I wouldn’t care what kind of person he was, so in fact it’s my disapproval of him as a coach which exaggerates my view of him as a human being.

There’s worse people out there than Arteta, Guardiola is a total sack of shit…absolutely diabolical human being. At least Jose Felix Mourinho doesn’t pretend not to be a cunt. And when Mourinho isn’t being driven to act like a bell end by his monstrous narcissism you could probably have a laugh and a joke with him. Guardiola there’s just nothing other than sullen resentment, being off hand to the point of being anhedonic. Klopp at least smiles and laughs even if you think the guy drinks his own piss.
I’d say it’s better to have no personality like Arteta than a horrendous one. Imagine the poor cow married to Guardiola, just broken from years of passive aggressive put downs and patronising back handed compliments. The players like him because he brings success, but they can’t like him as a person…but because of PR they aren’t going to say…”case in point, I was walking around in Manchester town centre I saw pep coming towards me, so I crossed the road to go the other way before he saw me”

[Letters]

So essentially your argument comes down to an appeal to Authority, you know…I think NQ is a crank as much as he thinks I’m a gutless, pliant brainwashed serf but he does have a bit of a point when it comes to you. You do have a bit of a “ours is not to reason why” mentality about you.
Now you're being all NQ in your black and white thinking. This has always been my frustration with this place, the extremes of opinion. I miss nuance, and I know you're capable of it.
How hard is it to understand that "Arteta knows best" and "Arteta out" aren't the only two options here? Me thinking that your criticism of Arteta is over the top doesn't mean that I think no criticism is allowed or valid.
I do in general think football managers know a bit more about things that keyboard warriors, but that doesn't mean they're beyond reproach.
I've literally in this thread agreed with some of your concerns, and the buck stops with Arteta if those concerns cost us this season.


So I’m countering your appeal to authority with Empiricism. Arteta has a history of Galaxy brained tactical changes and they invariably don’t work, either because like with the star in the square hole it’s not meant to go there or for all his supposed tactical brilliance he hasn’t explained what he wants from his players.
That isn't empirical, that's all just your opinion. By what empirical measure are you claiming they don't work? Empiricism is looking at results, or stats. Last year we got what was is, our third highest ever PL points total? Watching All or Nothing the players seem to buy in to what he's doing. His pre-match talks are bizarre (apart from getting the photographer in ahead of the NLD, loved that), but it seems to be getting results. But for a ludicrous run from City last year we could have been champions in a season when most of us were hoping for Top 4 and if memory serves you thought we wouldn't achieve that.


I can’t say for definite what will happen, but being wrong about the two results hasn’t in anyway made me think more positively because at home to Forest we should have lost
Should we, though? 78% permission. Ramsdale made 1 save to their 5. We were 2 goals up in about 30 minutes. The stats seem to show we were pretty dominant
http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2023/08/13/xg-arsenal-vs-nottingham-forest-attendance-59984-2023-24-expected-goals-afc-2-1-nffc-match-stats/
By no metric should we have lost it, although the goal we conceded and resulting nervy end when we should have put it to bed in the first half were disappointing.
I agreed with MO's comment after that game that it was an indication of why we won't win the league. You're not going to keep getting away with stuff like that.
Which is the main issue I see, the lack of a real out and out striker. We actually scored a lot of goals last year without one, but in tight games you do wonder where a goal might come from. Saka or Odegaard


But honestly I’d much prefer you actually watch games and then tell me you think I’m wrong or being over the top.
I think it's fair to ask I watch games. But I had a season ticket from 1991 to around 2012, and I witnessed a load of people who I think are like you. People who would moan no matter what. And if that's why they go to football, for a bit of catharsis, then OK I guess. I guess they have the right, and I have the right to tell them they're being ridiculous. I remember one bloke who sat near us in the old North Bank, I believe he was an ex-pro. He once shouted at Henry for being "lazy" because he didn't run for a ball. This was right at the end of the season where Henry had scored 30 league goals. Some people are never happy, I sense you are one of those.


Because at the moment all you have is…well we won that’s all that matters.

No, it isn't all that matters. But it's not irrelevant either.


So tell you what, watch a game and then give me your opinion. Otherwise how are you any different from NQ who just knows

I'm literally saying in this thread that I DON'T know. You are the one expressing certainty about that, just as you did before the first two games.
I don't know how this season will turn out. I am worried about the lack of a "Kane", and some of the grumbling about the tactics concern me a bit. But so far, by the only metric that really matters in football, it is working. We've won the games. Obviously if you're right then we won't keep doing that, there are obviously bigger tests to come. But as I keep saying, you only really get a sense for how the season is shaping up around Christmas.
Also, even if we had been terrible in these two games and got lucky to win - which isn't what I think happened, but let's say. You understand that teams don't play at a uniform level, right? We're 2 games in, maybe we've not really hit our stride yet. But, for now, I'm content enough with the results and I find the level of social media whining baffling. Not that there is any grumbling, it's the level of it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Now you're being all NQ in your black and white thinking. This has always been my frustration with this place, the extremes of opinion. I miss nuance, and I know you're capable of it.
How hard is it to understand that "Arteta knows best" and "Arteta out" aren't the only two options here? Me thinking that your criticism of Arteta is over the top doesn't mean that I think no criticism is allowed or valid.
I do in general think football managers know a bit more about things that keyboard warriors, but that doesn't mean they're beyond reproach.
I've literally in this thread agreed with some of your concerns, and the buck stops with Arteta if those concerns cost us this season.


That isn't empirical, that's all just your opinion. By what empirical measure are you claiming they don't work? Empiricism is looking at results, or stats. Last year we got what was is, our third highest ever PL points total? Watching All or Nothing the players seem to buy in to what he's doing. His pre-match talks are bizarre (apart from getting the photographer in ahead of the NLD, loved that), but it seems to be getting results. But for a ludicrous run from City last year we could have been champions in a season when most of us were hoping for Top 4 and if memory serves you thought we wouldn't achieve that.


Should we, though? 78% permission. Ramsdale made 1 save to their 5. We were 2 goals up in about 30 minutes. The stats seem to show we were pretty dominant
http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2023/08/13/xg-arsenal-vs-nottingham-forest-attendance-59984-2023-24-expected-goals-afc-2-1-nffc-match-stats/
By no metric should we have lost it, although the goal we conceded and resulting nervy end when we should have put it to bed in the first half were disappointing.
I agreed with MO's comment after that game that it was an indication of why we won't win the league. You're not going to keep getting away with stuff like that.
Which is the main issue I see, the lack of a real out and out striker. We actually scored a lot of goals last year without one, but in tight games you do wonder where a goal might come from. Saka or Odegaard


I think it's fair to ask I watch games. But I had a season ticket from 1991 to around 2012, and I witnessed a load of people who I think are like you. People who would moan no matter what. And if that's why they go to football, for a bit of catharsis, then OK I guess. I guess they have the right, and I have the right to tell them they're being ridiculous. I remember one bloke who sat near us in the old North Bank, I believe he was an ex-pro. He once shouted at Henry for being "lazy" because he didn't run for a ball. This was right at the end of the season where Henry had scored 30 league goals. Some people are never happy, I sense you are one of those.



No, it isn't all that matters. But it's not irrelevant either.



I'm literally saying in this thread that I DON'T know. You are the one expressing certainty about that, just as you did before the first two games.
I don't know how this season will turn out. I am worried about the lack of a "Kane", and some of the grumbling about the tactics concern me a bit. But so far, by the only metric that really matters in football, it is working. We've won the games. Obviously if you're right then we won't keep doing that, there are obviously bigger tests to come. But as I keep saying, you only really get a sense for how the season is shaping up around Christmas.
Also, even if we had been terrible in these two games and got lucky to win - which isn't what I think happened, but let's say. You understand that teams don't play at a uniform level, right? We're 2 games in, maybe we've not really hit our stride yet. But, for now, I'm content enough with the results and I find the level of social media whining baffling. Not that there is any grumbling, it's the level of it.


You may think by taking each point in my argument that you’re being analytical but in fact you’re straw manning.

Where have I stated that it’s a binary between being unquestioningly positive about Arteta and being Arteta out. I’m responding to the point where you say “he knows more about this than you” which absolutely was in the absence of your own evidence an appeal to authority. Of course Arteta knows more about football and tactics than me, but that does not preclude him acting irrationally or stupidly.

Arteta has been with us for three years, there are myriad examples of him changing tactics in a way that left us looking completely lost. One that springs to mind was a home game against Liverpool just over two years ago, it wasn’t even the lineup that was the issue, there seemed to be this contain and counter tactical plan that the players seemed utterly confused by and unable to fathom. The end result was a Liverpool aside that wasn’t exactly in great form themselves were able to turn us over totally, even Arteta himself admitted he’d got it totally and absolutely wrong.

Another one I highlight was a game against Brighton, Brighton hadnt won in almost ten games, yet we play Xhaka at left back and Odegaard in the no8 role which he absolutely can’t play to the point where the two centre backs white and Gabriel were nervous about passing forward and Trossard and Mwepu just beasted us down the flanks. I was at that game, and I’d never in my memory of going to games had seen us look so unable to impose ourselves against a mid table team. Here Arteta didn’t take responsibility, he just screams at the players for their lack of commitment.


These are not exhaustive, they are paradigm cases

If you feel uneasy at the strength of my certainty that is more on you, as I said to someone the other day. I was in favour of Arteta becoming coach and by August 2020 I was more than happy with the job he was doing. I could see there were issues in the side, but in many respects that was as much about personnel so I gave him benefit of the doubt


I know, you know, everyone on here knows that he should not have survived the run of games between October 2020 and December 2020, even at the worst days of Terry Neil or Don Howe we hadn’t been that feeble. And that on its own is difficult to forgive and overlook. That was almost solely attributable to the way he chose to set up, yes Partey picked up injuries but made not a fuck of difference whether he played or not. Despite having Auba and Lacazette, totally toothless up front.
Our best player that season was arguably Granit Xhaka which should tell you everything.


So my opinion is I’ve seen this calamity before. As I’ve said do I know as a certainty it will happen? No, based on what I’ve seen do I think it will happen? Yes. I don’t like a lot of the players that play for Arsenal they are either surplus to requirements or just not that good, but with 600million spent we are going to look better than we did a few years ago. That might cushion the disaster I can see incoming as a result of this man’s hubris, but I still think it will be depressing…in my mind it already is. Like watching a car crash in slow motion.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Let me break it down to you as simply as I can, for all the disastrous way last season ended…there wasn’t much needed to improve the team

We needed two midfielders and a striker ( and of course a big Dustbin to remove players like Zinchenko, Holding, Vieira, Nketiah). The first midfielder we bought in should have been Caicedo simply because he perfectly complements the way we should be playing with the rest of the players we have, the second should have been an upgrade on Xhaka and the third should have been a striker. Wouldn’t have ended up spending any more money and we’d have a far more balanced side


When City haven’t properly replaced Gundogan and Mahrez it presented us with an opportunity, but I should have known better. Last season we needed a midfielder and genius buys a luxury player in Vieira and thirty million on a left back that can’t play left back.

When you’ve spent 600 million pounds and keep loading up your team with full backs and you struggle to beat Forest and Palace, it’s legitimate cause to feel frustrated and pessimistic.

[Letters]

Where have I stated that it’s a binary between being unquestioningly positive about Arteta and being Arteta out.
You implied it by accusing me of appeal to authority and "ours is not to reason why". That is you strawmanning me.


I’m responding to the point where you say “he knows more about this than you”
Well, he does. Clearly. But that doesn't mean he can't be questioned or criticised.


These are not exhaustive, they are paradigm cases
And from your descriptions they're reasonable ones. See above about how it's reasonable to question or criticise a manager.


If you feel uneasy at the strength of my certainty that is more on you
Of course, but given your certainty about the first two games and your pre-season prediction last season I wonder why you continue to be so confident. You might be right of course, but I'd suggest two games in is not enough evidence to be sure how this season will pan out. I personally would be surprised if we end up as champions, I'm pretty confident we'll do no worse than third but it's impossible to be definitive after two games.


everyone on here knows that he should not have survived the run of games between October 2020 and December 2020
I had to remind myself but ouch, yes that was awful and I think I'd briefly hopped on the Arteta Out bandwagon. The win vs Chelsea on Boxing Day probably saved him[/QUOTE]

I'm interested to know what this impending disaster will look like. What in your mind would be acceptable this season? It's surely not the title or bust for you, is it?

[Mac76]

Martinelli was out of the Arsenal team for well over a year, there was some claim of injury but it wasn’t anywhere near as serious as to keep him out for that long. Martinelli forced himself into contention…

Tierney went home to cry and cuddle up on the sofa with his boyfriend the club chef. Now you could be saying to me that Arteta took against Tierney because he’s homophobic or he saw a player that other than a pace merchant was limited and preferred to spend his time binge watching Orange is the New Black rather than fight for contention.

Like Martinelli did

utter tosh - Tierney no doubt turns up, trains hard, doess his best when given a few minutes on the pitch completely out of position - Arteta doesn't like traditional full backs, it's obvious, he's not playing one on either flank

seriously why is no-one else apparently allowed to criticise Arteta but you - who gave you the monopoly on it?

[HCZ_Reborn]

utter tosh - Tierney no doubt turns up, trains hard, doess his best when given a few minutes on the pitch completely out of position - Arteta doesn't like traditional full backs, it's obvious, he's not playing one on either flank

seriously why is no-one else apparently allowed to criticise Arteta but you - who gave you the monopoly on it?


Why do you put the word seriously as a prefix when your question isn’t in anyway serious. It’s not even a question, it’s just a sulk shaped like a question.

You talk about Arteta needing validation, but do you need validation so much that you need to flounce and throw a strop when someone disagrees with you.

Do I think Arteta has treated Tierney unfairly? Yes but do I think that if Tierney had anything about him he would have done more to force himself into Arteta’s plans also yes. If he had I don’t think Arteta would have bought Zinchenko. We are it seems more than prepared to let him go, and yet no one has come in for him…maybe because he’s injury prone and when he has featured in the last season he didn’t exactly make much of an impact.


Tierney excelled playing in a team of sub par and disinterested players. You don’t agree with me? You don’t have to. You’ve registered your disagreement, move on. Stop acting like I’ve slighted you

[HCZ_Reborn]

You implied it by accusing me of appeal to authority and "ours is not to reason why". That is you strawmanning me.


Well, he does. Clearly. But that doesn't mean he can't be questioned or criticised.


And from your descriptions they're reasonable ones. See above about how it's reasonable to question or criticise a manager.


Of course, but given your certainty about the first two games and your pre-season prediction last season I wonder why you continue to be so confident. You might be right of course, but I'd suggest two games in is not enough evidence to be sure how this season will pan out. I personally would be surprised if we end up as champions, I'm pretty confident we'll do no worse than third but it's impossible to be definitive after two games.


I had to remind myself but ouch, yes that was awful and I think I'd briefly hopped on the Arteta Out bandwagon. The win vs Chelsea on Boxing Day probably saved him

I'm interested to know what this impending disaster will look like. What in your mind would be acceptable this season? It's surely not the title or bust for you, is it?[/QUOTE]


I think given the money that we’ve spent and the state the other clubs are in, we absolutely should have been looking at winning the title this season yes. City have lost two key players, they have De Bruyne out for months. No nothing in life is a sure thing, but absolutely we should be in the same place Liverpool were in four years ago with the cash we’ve spent.

If you’re serious you will admit that we are no where near that. Despite us being in no worse of a position arguably than Liverpool was when Klopp took over and spent like a drunken sailor to get their single title.

[HCZ_Reborn]

But what am I worried about, I’m worried that this will resemble the last few months of Emery’s time in charge where despite significant outlay (and winning albeit unconvincingly our first two games) we end up mid table, and out of Europe by Christmas. Because of lack of goals and a stubborn imbecile of a coach

[Letters]

But what am I worried about, I’m worried that this will resemble the last few months of Emery’s time in charge where despite significant outlay (and winning albeit unconvincingly our first two games) we end up mid table, and out of Europe by Christmas. Because of lack of goals and a stubborn imbecile of a coach

Ok. Well I guess we’ll reconvene around Christmas then.
I do think we should be aiming for the title this year. We just finished second and we’ve spent big to try and push on. The board has backed Arteta and the pressure is on for him to deliver. I don’t think it’s the title or Arteta Out, but we have to be in the race till the end.

[Mac76]

do I think that if Tierney had anything about him he would have done more to force himself into Arteta’s plans also yes

how about i repeat myself until it gets through - Aeteta doesn't like traditional fullbacks it's blindingly obvious, that's why he doesn't llke Tierney and there's nothing Tierney can do about it

how can anyone watch how Arteta manages the team and think that any player can force themselves into contention, when his leading trait is picking his favourite 11 week after week after week? :rolleyes:

[HCZ_Reborn]

how about i repeat myself until it gets through - Aeteta doesn't like traditional fullbacks it's blindingly obvious, that's why he doesn't llke Tierney and there's nothing Tierney can do about it

how can anyone watch how Arteta manages the team and think that any player can force themselves into contention, when his leading trait is picking his favourite 11 week after week after week? :rolleyes:


I don’t know, maybe it’s the fact that the inverted full back nonsense has only been a favourite toy of Arteta for the last year?

And his favourites do change, Willian was a favourite for ages but ultimately he was dropped, same with Smith Rowe.

Last season was far more about his unwillingness to change things up when we were winning. Which on one hand made sense on the other hand, showed that he’s still very green.

For instance that’s why Tomoyasu kept playing at left back even though was clear he wasn’t up to it.


Plus you seem to think I’m saying Arteta is right to play Zinchenko there, not really but when Tierney did play last season he hardly did anything to mark Arteta think twice.

I thought Tierney looked ok in his first season with us. After that? Never really seen the fuss. Think we can do better frankly

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ok. Well I guess we’ll reconvene around Christmas then.
I do think we should be aiming for the title this year. We just finished second and we’ve spent big to try and push on. The board has backed Arteta and the pressure is on for him to deliver. I don’t think it’s the title or Arteta Out, but we have to be in the race till the end.

Title or Arteta out? No

Title or serious inquest into how effective our transfer spending has been, how the squad has been utilised and the teams put out yes.

The title for me is out of the question. This time last week I thought top four was out of the question, but I’ve been shocked as to how poor the likes of United, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs have looked.

That said I thought the same four years ago (probably swapping Newcastle with Leicester at the time).


Where I think the potential to really become unstuck is playing Man City and Chelsea back to back, and then playing Newcastle and Brentford away in November.

[Mac76]

This time last week I thought top four was out of the question, but I’ve been shocked as to how poor the likes of United, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs have looked.


this has to be the worst PL season for a long time quality-wise, if anyone of those teams gets their act together they're nailed-on second

[Marc Overmars]

this has to be the worst PL season for a long time quality-wise, if anyone of those teams gets their act together they're nailed-on second

I’m sure this is said every year but I think the reality is that the PL is just an incredibly competitive league where pretty much any team can beat one another on their day.

I always felt the quality was far poorer back in the day when it was us and United slugging it out.

[Mac76]

I’m sure this is said every year but I think the reality is that the PL is just an incredibly competitive league where pretty much any team can beat one another on their day.

I always felt the quality was far poorer back in the day when it was us and United slugging it out.

not sure, I don't see Liverpool, Moan U, Chelsea or even though i hate to say it Spuds playing anywhere near the level they were when they have been at their respective peaks, admittedly for Moan U that's some time now, also Chelsea, but still they all seem to be below par atm

[HCZ_Reborn]

Whilst I think he overstates his case, I do find myself agreeing somewhat with NQ that the standard of football in general has reached a nadir

[Letters]

There are some exceptional players in the PL, but there are a lot of cloggers too. But I guess if even mediocre players can get paid £100k a week these days there's no real reason to push themselves.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There are some exceptional players in the PL, but there are a lot of cloggers too. But I guess if even mediocre players can get paid £100k a week these days there's no real reason to push themselves.

Not just talking about the premier league, talking about football in general. Top strikers are at a premium, as are good dribblers, and don’t even get me started on crossing the ball.

[Letters]

A mate of mine was being scathing about the crossing in the women's world cup.
I didn't say anything but I did think to myself "Have you see how bloody bad it is in the men's game?!".
I do find it lamentable how bad some of these basic skills are at the top level.

[Mac76]

A mate of mine was being scathing about the crossing in the women's world cup.
I didn't say anything but I did think to myself "Have you see how bloody bad it is in the men's game?!".
I do find it lamentable how bad some of these basic skills are at the top level.

There's a huge amount of double standards applied by some people to the women's game, every time a woman makes a big mistake it's held up as a supposed example of the general standard, whereas with men it's regarded as the exception

[HCZ_Reborn]

There's a huge amount of double standards applied by some people to the women's game, every time a woman makes a big mistake it's held up as a supposed example of the general standard, whereas with men it's regarded as the exception

Apart from being slightly slower, less aggressive and a bit less technical finesse I can’t say I’ve noticed loads of difference. The crowd don’t seem quite as engaged as they are with the men’s game but that’s because at this stage in it’s development women’s football is more of a hobby for spectators where as with mens it’s a religion. The differences are more down to what you’d expect in the physical differences of men and women, I’ve no doubt most current women’s players are far in advance of the women’s game twenty years ago

[WMUG]

I’ve no doubt most current women’s players are far in advance of the women’s game twenty years ago

I mean, yeah :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy4U6mjt90A

[WMUG]

The crowd don’t seem quite as engaged as they are with the men’s game but that’s because at this stage in it’s development women’s football is more of a hobby for spectators where as with mens it’s a religion.

Also, you say that, but this is the kind of stuff you'd expect to see at Partizan Belgrade :lol:

https://youtu.be/bzDb6ZLGPbA?t=22

[mandela8]

There's a huge amount of double standards applied by some people to the women's game, every time a woman makes a big mistake it's held up as a supposed example of the general standard, whereas with men it's regarded as the exception

Not just their game but women in football, specifically commentators and pundits. Every time they make a stupid fuckin point, and they make a lot, it's held up as some proof of affirmative action...completely neglecting the fact that legitimate mongoloids like Micah Richards and Jamie Redknapp...in fact nearly all are guilty of it...say ridiculous shit constantly.

[Mac76]

Not just their game but women in football, specifically commentators and pundits. Every time they make a stupid fuckin point, and they make a lot, it's held up as some proof of affirmative action...completely neglecting the fact that legitimate mongoloids like Micah Richards and Jamie Redknapp...in fact nearly all are guilty of it...say ridiculous shit constantly.

yes pundits as we know can be preety bad, men or women - during the Women's World Cup final, the BBC commentary team were both women - the so-called expert analyst (some former player or other) was desperately trying to create a narrative that Spain were time-wasting by going down too much and too long under England tackles - but the commentator kept pointing out (with the help of the replays) that the tackles were actually quite fierce and therefore the Spain players were justified :lol:

[LDG]

Can policy not change over time?

I mean, when Arteta came in, the first thing he did was put some basic shape in the side such that we were a bit more difficult to play against.

We then started addressing the issue of removing shite from the books. And also removed pure talent, because talent is not good enough on its own without a team ethos, and a willingness to learn and put in the graft.

Massive calls is fucking off Ozil, Auba, Guendosi(sp)/the second coming according to some.

Then we blooded a team for a year. White, Gabriel, Saka, ESR etc etc….in the first season we fell short of CL…the means to and reason for a deeper squad, and heavy spending.

Look, if we fuck the whole thing up this year, Arteta is naturally on his way out. I don’t believe for one second that they will back him further if we fall back into the Europa and mid-table bullshit.

But by giving a manager time, by taking a more rational, less aggressive stance, we’re in a far better position than the clubs who have a revolving door as a manager recruitment process.

Just wait. Be patient. Every year so far has been (in the grand scheme), better than the last. And I at least feel like we have the groundwork for rebuilding what was a shell of a club when Wenger left.

Just have go on the stadium tour again. Love it….everything is about the club’s history and the lessons we have learned. It’s class. “Remember who you are, what you are and what you represent”. That is everything for me. After that, you have talent, or not….and thats for the club to decide, otherwise, I’m behind em

[LDG]

Ps. Was resonding to actual football natter. No wimball

[HCZ_Reborn]

Can policy not change over time?

I mean, when Arteta came in, the first thing he did was put some basic shape in the side such that we were a bit more difficult to play against.

We then started addressing the issue of removing shite from the books. And also removed pure talent, because talent is not good enough on its own without a team ethos, and a willingness to learn and put in the graft.

Massive calls is fucking off Ozil, Auba, Guendosi(sp)/the second coming according to some.

Then we blooded a team for a year. White, Gabriel, Saka, ESR etc etc….in the first season we fell short of CL…the means to and reason for a deeper squad, and heavy spending.

Look, if we fuck the whole thing up this year, Arteta is naturally on his way out. I don’t believe for one second that they will back him further if we fall back into the Europa and mid-table bullshit.

But by giving a manager time, by taking a more rational, less aggressive stance, we’re in a far better position than the clubs who have a revolving door as a manager recruitment process.

Just wait. Be patient. Every year so far has been (in the grand scheme), better than the last. And I at least feel like we have the groundwork for rebuilding what was a shell of a club when Wenger left.

Just have go on the stadium tour again. Love it….everything is about the club’s history and the lessons we have learned. It’s class. “Remember who you are, what you are and what you represent”. That is everything for me. After that, you have talent, or not….and thats for the club to decide, otherwise, I’m behind em


Sometimes I feel like, when listening to certain Arsenal fans like I’m on the outside watching a documentary about a cult.

It’s all very well saying well he will get sacked if we end up sliding down the table again, but where does that leave us?. It might help if the club intervened well before that point. But a block on transfers like Zinchenko, Vieira, Havertz and Rice and say…”we are investing a lot of money in this team, it’s not for you to piss it up the wall”

As for getting rid of Ozil being a big move? It was the only move the guy was becoming feral, we had to cut him loose. Auba I suspect we only got rid of when he lost his usefulness to us and Guendouzi…well when we had players like Xhaka, Elneny and Lokonga in the midfield it does make you question the sense of getting rid of him.

Same with Torreira arguably

But if Captain Black don’t rate you, you either have to pull up trees or you’re screwed


I worry about what he’s saddled us with, an imbalanced squad…so much money spent that it will be almost impossible to fix the mistakes he’s made. And a complete stubbornness when it comes to rotating and the system we play.


But above all else there is frustration, that despite city probably being weaker than last season, despite Liverpool, Chelsea, spurs, United, Newcastle all being in some form of transition. That we chose not to get the players that might actually win us the league.

We’ve bemoaned for decades it feels that we don’t have the finances to compete and when we do, it gets wasted by a Spaniard who has a pathological urge to buy full backs and shoehorn players into the wrong position.

There’s no guarantees in life, and we are entitled to nothing but it feels weird to me that other people don’t feel the massive resentment I feel at what we’ve squandered

[Mac76]

I'd forgotten about Torreira - he was one of those players who, when he first came, we thought we might have for years and who might be something of a legend - same with Tierney actually - i sometimes think the revolving door is going more and more quickly for some players at least

meanwhile we get stuck with Xhaka for five seasons too many and no doubt it will be the same with Zinchenko

@LDG I get what you are saying and I go to almost every home game and get behind the team on the day, but i can't blindly just accept all of what Arteta does if i think he's making really bad calls - and i do think he's making some really bad calls - but if we suddenly start playing like a team supposedly in contention then i might start to believe in him a bit more