RC Lens v The Arsenal. 03/10/23. 20:00

[Marc Overmars]

No idea if Lens are any good but the fact they’re 15th in Ligue 1 suggests not. :lol:

Hoping Trossard is fit to play so he gets some minutes in before City. Partey is also back training but not sure if he’ll feature in this.

0-2.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Played them before albeit a long time ago

25 years since we played them in the champions league (drawing 1-1 in France and losing 1-0 at Wembley)

23 years since we played them in semi finals of UEFA cup (where 1-0 win at home and 2-1 win in France contributed to 3-1 aggregate win)

Have only lost one match in France in 2019 to Rennes, where we were down to ten men for most of the game

Going back as far as the cup winners cup in the 1990s, our record in France is as follows

Have beaten Marseille (twice), Montpellier, Lyon and Auxerre (also twice)


Drawn with PSG (twice), Nantes, Lens of course


I’d fancy us to win tonight, dour 1-0….a clean sheet and no new injuries would be good

[HCZ_Reborn]

Didn’t mention Monaco because even though they are in the French league, Monaco itself is a principality and not part of France

[Mac76]

3-0 Wahi hatter

[HCZ_Reborn]

Predicted team

Raya, Zinchenko, Gabriel, Saliba, White, Rice, Havertz, Odegaard, Nketiah, Jesus, Saka


Team id play


Ramsdale, Kiwior, Gabriel, White, Tomoyasu, Jorginho, Rice, Vieira, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Jesus

[WMUG]

Didn’t mention Monaco because even though they are in the French league, Monaco itself is a principality and not part of France

:geek:

[Mac76]

Predicted team

Raya, Zinchenko, Gabriel, Saliba, White, Rice, Havertz, Odegaard, Nketiah, Jesus, Saka


Team id play


Ramsdale, Kiwior, Gabriel, White, Tomoyasu, Jorginho, Rice, Vieira, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Jesus

you're just being stubborn now :)

btw this is more important than just a typo because the 'i' is very important to how his name is pronounced - anyone who's ever spoken to anyone about Arsenal players or listened properly to commentary will be able to hear the 'i' sound in his name as opposed to an 'o' sound which is very different

It's like calling you 'HCZ Reburn' instead of 'reborn' - the 'u' sound is completely different to the 'o' sound so it fundamentally changes the name

[HCZ_Reborn]

you're just being stubborn now :)

btw this is more important than just a typo because the 'i' is very important to how his name is pronounced - anyone who's ever spoken to anyone about Arsenal players or listened properly to commentary will be able to hear the 'i' sound in his name as opposed to an 'o' sound which is very different

It's like calling you 'HCZ Reburn' instead of 'reborn' - the 'u' sound is completely different to the 'o' sound so it fundamentally changes the name

:lol:
You seriously need help, this goes beyond pedantry into the realm of obsessive compulsion

I’ve been off work for almost a week, so got stuff to catch up on so can’t indulge you today, beyond to say it really doesn’t matter either way but it’s not deliberate it’s a misspelling…I don’t care when people spell my surname wrong.

Please find something more fulfilling in your life than this

[Mac76]

:lol:
You seriously need help, this goes beyond pedantry into the realm of obsessive compulsion

I’ve been off work for almost a week, so got stuff to catch up on so can’t indulge you today, beyond to say it really doesn’t matter either way but it’s not deliberate it’s a misspelling…I don’t care when people spell my surname wrong.

Please find something more fulfilling in your life than this

Ha, nice attempt to trivialise it, but if your name was Steve it would annoy you if people called myou 'Sven' - i suspect Tomi would feel the same (and no doubt is a regular visitor to GW :lol:)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ha, nice attempt to trivialise it, but if your name was Steve it would annoy you if people called myou 'Sven' - i suspect Tomi would feel the same (and no doubt is a regular visitor to GW :lol:)

That’ll do pig

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Lens: Samba, Medina, Danso, Gradit, Machado, Abdul Samid, Mendy, Frankowski, Thomasson, Sotoca, Wahi.
Subs: Leca, Pandor, Aguilar, Fulgini, Diouf, Maouassa, Said, El Aynaoui, Khusanov, Guilavogui.

Arsenal: Raya, Tomiyasu, Saliba, Gabriel, Zinchenko, Rice, Odegaard, Havertz, Saka, Trossard, Gabriel Jesus.
Subs: Ramsdale, Hein, White, Kiwior, Cedric, Smith Rowe, Partey, Jorginho, Vieira, Elneny, Nelson, Nketiah.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well I guess it’s good to see what was becoming a ridiculous injury list dissipating. Still don’t approve of Havertz and Odegaard playing attacking midfield leaving only one central midfielder but just adds to my litany of complaints, for a game like this I don’t really care about the starting XI too much….in that you’ve got to be reasonably close to your supposed best XI until qualification is assured.

Come on you Greens

[Mac76]

Good to see Trossard back but once again, Saka should not be starting this game ffs

[Mac76]

Is this on Sky or anything?

[Mac76]

Ok it's on TNT sports 2...

[Marc Overmars]

Defending well but haven’t really got going up front yet.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

JESUS!!!

[Marc Overmars]

JESUS!!!

Clinical.

[HCZ_Reborn]

GOAL! Lens 0-1 Arsenal (Jesus, 14)
Clinical from the Arsenal striker!
Thomasson's poor pass gifts Saka possession high up the pitch.
He shits the ball onto Jesus, who twists and turns before firing a right-footed shot into the bottom corner.
The Brazilian striker just loves this competition

Glad I didn’t have to see that

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good effort from Havertz.

[Marc Overmars]

Havertz effort saved.

Playing some good football so far it has to be said.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

GOAL! Lens 0-1 Arsenal (Jesus, 14)
Clinical from the Arsenal striker!
Thomasson's poor pass gifts Saka possession high up the pitch.
He shits the ball onto Jesus, who twists and turns before firing a right-footed shot into the bottom corner.
The Brazilian striker just loves this competition

Glad I didn’t have to see that

Saka shits assists.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-1 What a strike.

That was bad from Raya.

[Marc Overmars]

1-1

Got sloppy but that was a great finish tbf.

[Marc Overmars]

Poor from Raya.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Poor from Raya.

Guy has terrible distribution

[Marc Overmars]

Guy has terrible distribution

Yeah I don’t think he’s any better or worse than Ramsdale in that respect.

Only area they differ is that I think Raya is more commanding.

[Marc Overmars]

Saka off injured. :rolleyes:

Vieira on.

That’s on you Mikel.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Saka off injured. :rolleyes:

Vieira on.

That’s on you Mikel.


It’s ok, he will play on Sunday even if he has to be reconstructed Lee Majors style

[Marc Overmars]

Ah there’s Premier League Jesus skying one.

[Marc Overmars]

HT 1-1

Mostly good without really creating much.

Got punished for getting sloppy. Which is a quite familiar feeling.

[Mac76]

Saka off injured. :rolleyes:

Vieira on.

That’s on you Mikel.

Not watching, am out somewhere but as you say, totally on Arteta, fking idiot

[Marc Overmars]

Trossard shot saved.

Should have done better, was a bit tame in the end after working the space.

[Marc Overmars]

No conviction on anything Havertz does. Really irritating.

[Marc Overmars]

Very poor second half so far.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Decent chance for Lens.

[Marc Overmars]

Good effort from Tomi but straight at the keeper.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

2-1 Lens. Shit.

[Marc Overmars]

2-1 :lol:

Only got ourselves to blame for this dire second half showing

[HCZ_Reborn]

As things stand we are third in the group

[Mac76]

And from what I can see he's still not made any subs apart from Saka, eff off Arteta

[Marc Overmars]

The problem is we’re completely blunt. We could be here all night and not be closer to scoring.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And from what I can see he's still not made any subs apart from Saka, eff off Arteta

Wrong again :lol:

He took off Zinchenko, Havertz and Trossard for White, Smith Rowe and Nelson

[Marc Overmars]

Eddie on now to save the day.

[Marc Overmars]

Rice doing his best to drag us up the pitch but there’s only so much he can do from deep.

Not enough quality in front of him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

PSV equalise in the Netherlands which means Lens are top with us second as things stand

[HCZ_Reborn]

And Sevilla re-take the lead to put us third once more

[Marc Overmars]

ESR shot saved.

Well done for having a go. Which is not what can be said for those around him.

[Mac76]

Wrong again :lol:

He took off Zinchenko, Havertz and Trossard for White, Smith Rowe and Nelson

Ok, that's not what the interweb was telling me, but i was surprised ... :D

[Mac76]

Eddie on now to save the day.

We're fked

[Marc Overmars]

Nelson with a great chance to equalise but somehow it stays out.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

2-1 FT. Poor second half really.

[Marc Overmars]

FT 2-1

Not great.

[HCZ_Reborn]

FT 2-1

Not great.

Utterly embarassing. How that stupid Cunt can’t see that we need a striker

[Marc Overmars]

Started well but then faded alarmingly after conceding. If we had taken a point it would have been undeserved because we were quite shit in the second half.

Need a result in Seville now or this group could be a lot messier than we anticipated.

[LDG]

Bit crap really

Quite why Vieira came on in place of Saka I don’t know.

[Mac76]

Bit crap really

Quite why Vieira came on in place of Saka I don’t know.

More to the point, quite why Saka was even on the pitch to start with I don't know, Arteta has quite predictably fucked us

[Marc Overmars]

Rice was the only player out there worth a dime.

The rest of them can get in the bin. No guile, pace or movement at all. Like watching a bunch of statues play football.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Rice was the only player out there worth a dime.

The rest of them can get in the bin. No guile, pace or movement at all. Like watching a bunch of statues play football.

Except Rice is the main reason why we are in the state we are in. It’s not his fault, he is as you say full of guile and effort. But he can’t pass the ball forward…it’s the reason why we are creating so few chances compared to last season.

It’s so blindingly obvious. You take a player like Partey out of the team either through injury or playing him at right back and you are going to lose that dynamism and ability to get the ball forward quickly

[Mac76]

Except Rice is the main reason why we are in the state we are in. It’s not his fault, he is as you say full of guile and effort. But he can’t pass the ball forward…it’s the reason why we are creating so few chances compared to last season.

It’s so blindingly obvious. You take a player like Partey out of the team either through injury or playing him at right back and you are going to lose that dynamism and ability to get the ball forward quickly

This is total rubbish, OK i didn't see tonight's game but you've consistently said that about Rice and you couldn't be more wrong, he contributes a lot and yes including going forward, it's just a lot more of a general effect than anything showy so I think you miss it

And anyone who can't see that Partey is totally washed up needs help IMO

[Marc Overmars]

Except Rice is the main reason why we are in the state we are in. It’s not his fault, he is as you say full of guile and effort. But he can’t pass the ball forward…it’s the reason why we are creating so few chances compared to last season.

It’s so blindingly obvious. You take a player like Partey out of the team either through injury or playing him at right back and you are going to lose that dynamism and ability to get the ball forward quickly

I would say that Xhaka’s role contributed to a lot of the good we did in the final third last year too. That has been replaced by a languid German who moves like he’s stuck in the mud.

Martinelli’s absence has been felt too I guess.

Just all very uninspiring right now. We’re a good team but are definitely lacking a special player up top.

Don’t have much hope for the City game but stranger things have happened I suppose.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Bit crap really

Quite why Vieira came on in place of Saka I don’t know.

He keeps doing this shit over and over again and its really, really getting on my last nerve!

Anyone with eyes can see Viera has no business being on the wing with the way we play, he needs space and plays better when trying to dictate things from the center.

Its all so obvious, but Arteta keeps doing the same shit over and over again and expecting different results! Havertz was pointless in this game as usual and Partey or Eddie should have come on once momentum changed which had actually started once we lost Saka, in a game he had no business playing in!

Arteta remains a clown and I'm getting sick and tired of him sabotaging his own team just to prove to us all "he knows best"!

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is total rubbish, OK i didn't see tonight's game but you've consistently said that about Rice and you couldn't be more wrong, he contributes a lot and yes including going forward, it's just a lot more of a general effect than anything showy so I think you miss it

And anyone who can't see that Partey is totally washed up needs help IMO

Maybe he is washed up…that doesn’t in anyway invalidate my argument. We clearly need a player like him who has the passing and the technique to get the ball forward more quickly. At the moment we are overrelying on playing Havertz and Odegaard to instigate a high press to maintain attacking moves, and if oppositions can withstand that then it makes us utterly toothless and therefore we lack the player who can play out from the back.

Rice does contribute to our attacking play but not in a timely way and by the time the front four/five have the ball in the final third we are playing in front of the opposition and we are sideways passing the ball to death.

With the players we have up front, you simply cannot be without a technical and quick midfielder with a good passing range. Rice doesn’t have any of these attributes..people like him because he’s a trier, he always puts in the effort etc but he’s so limited.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This is total rubbish, OK i didn't see tonight's game but you've consistently said that about Rice and you couldn't be more wrong, he contributes a lot and yes including going forward, it's just a lot more of a general effect than anything showy so I think you miss it

And anyone who can't see that Partey is totally washed up needs help IMO

Mac, I think you need to watch some of our games last season to appreciate the real effect of Rice.

He is not a bad player, and does not weaken the team in general, but he adds absolutely ZERO to our attacking game, as he hardly holds the ball, hardly beats players and hardly makes passes that could be termed defence splitting.

I have since warmed to Rice and can clearly see how he makes us more difficult to beat....but that is ALL he does for now.

I'll repeat it again, he adds nothing to our attacking game, and though I do not believe he deserves all the blame for why we are so blunt, Arteta trying to force him down this team's throat is definitely one of the reasons we are stuttering.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He keeps doing this shit over and over again and its really, really getting on my last nerve!

Anyone with eyes can see Viera has no business being on the wing with the way we play, he needs space and plays better when trying to dictate things from the center.

Its all so obvious, but Arteta keeps doing the same shit over and over again and expecting different results! Havertz was pointless in this game as usual and Partey or Eddie should have come on once momentum changed which had actually started once we lost Saka, in a game he had no business playing in!

Arteta remains a clown and I'm getting sick and tired of him sabotaging his own team just to prove to us all "he knows best"!


Was some utter hubris on display there.

I can’t see how Vieira can play on the wing, lacks the raw pace necessary

Saka? I just don’t know what he thinks he’s doing with him. Is he trying to break him.

Yeah I do think there is this “I’m smarter than the rest of you” mentality

[Mac76]

Mac, I think you need to watch some of our games last season to appreciate the real effect of Rice.

He is not a bad player, and does not weaken the team in general, but he adds absolutely ZERO to our attacking game, as he hardly holds the ball, hardly beats players and hardly makes passes that could be termed defence splitting.

I have since warmed to Rice and can clearly see how he makes us more difficult to beat....but that is ALL he does for now.

I'll repeat it again, he adds nothing to our attacking game, and though I do not believe he deserves all the blame for why we are so blunt, Arteta trying to force him down this team's throat is definitely one of the reasons we are stuttering.

To say he offers nothing is patently not true, given he's actually scored for us and also played some passes in - could he do more, maybe

but I do think there's a mythology about Partey that belies the reality - even when he's been fit his performances have sometimes yes been really strong but at other times woeful

I think if we're looking for weak points in the team then the starting point is Zinchenko and Havertz, neither of whom offer very much - not that I was a fan of Granit, but it's having Havertz instead of Xhaka that's blunted us a bit

As for Agent Zinchenko, his role seems to be to gaurantee Citeh the title by undermining our efforts by giving the ball away in dangerous situations and clogging up the midfield

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again misses the point, it doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about Partey or a player in the style of Partey the fact is that when we can’t get the ball forward from the back in a timely enough fashion it gives opposition players time to get back. We can complain about teams doing the deep block but the real problem is we lack the players in central midfield who can both protect the defence and stretch the midfield.

Rice is of course not singularly responsible for this, when you have a player like Havertz who is simply not contributing enough to the attacking dimension of the game as well as not dropping deep to receive the ball (even Xhaka at his worst did this) it’s simply taking too long for the ball to get into the final third, and there are bodies back to block shots.
It explains why we get more penalties either from bringing players down in the box or handballs, we have players like Jesus, Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard who got goals and made goals last season as a result of having space to operate in which we no longer have…because by the time they are getting the ball…the opposition is in place to set itself. And then Arteta decides to address this by overcommitting (especially at home) by pushing the defence up and using Havertz/Vieira and Odegaard to press the team in their own third…and they are often breaking through the press with long balls to pace merchants.

Away from home where we do have to soak up pressure, it does help to have Rice…he’s very good at sitting in front of the defence and breaking things up, but without the players to take it forward and execute a break it’s all for nothing rather

[Mac76]

we have players like Jesus, Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard who got goals and made goals last season as a result of having space to operate in which we no longer have…because by the time they are getting the ball…

Well we still haven't shaken off the old horseshoe style of playing where we aren't quick or incisive enough and that is again due to players like Zin in particular and also Havertz (which you even admit yourself) who simply stand in the middle of two of our players and pass from one to the other, or dawdle on the ball and give it away.

replace them with players who are effective and it's problem solved and Rice gets on with what he's there to do - you just don't like Rice and you're trying to scapegoat him for others' failings

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well we still haven't shaken off the old horseshoe style of playing where we aren't quick or incisive enough and that is again due to players like Zin in particular and also Havertz (which you even admit yourself) who simply stand in the middle of two of our players and pass from one to the other, or dawdle on the ball and give it away.

replace them with players who are effective and it's problem solved and Rice gets on with what he's there to do - you just don't like Rice and you're trying to scapegoat him for others' failings


Zinchenko played last season (too much in my view) and we clearly didn’t have this problem then, and yes I’ve not denied that Havertz contributes to the issue but once again you frame your rebuttal to the argument you wish I were making rather than the one I am.

The reason I have been against us buying Rice was precisely because I absolutely believed we needed someone more technical, quicker and better in terms of passing than him. I have no idea if Partey is finished or not, I don’t really think you can judge him too much on this season given he’s been played at right back. No

But the fact is even if we had a more traditional box to box player, with Rice unable to take the ball past players and play more progressive passes (which even a player like Gilberto could do) it creates attacking issues. What that dimwit Arteta doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that the bullshit inverted fullbacks and what have you detracts from the fact that we have a team best set up to play on the counter attack, we have as I say a front four that needs space to operate.

But we also need proper full backs and two midfielders, one to sit in front of the defence but also spring the trap (which Rice can’t do) and one with an acceleration of pace to bring the ball forward, supplemented by fullbacks that can get forward

I like Rice, I think he’s got a top attitude, he puts the effort in but he’s simply not and never was the player we needed and if anything detracts from how we should be playing. And you can get rid of your pet hates like Zinchenko and that will still be the case I’m afraid.

[Mac76]

my dislike of Zinchenko (and not the person mind, i mean the player) isn't just that he in general isn't good enough - not a pet hate but simple observation - but also as you say it's what he stands for with the whole inverted LB thing which makes us weaker in defence and adds very little in attack, as for him personally his propensity to give the ball away in dangerous situations, which literally happens in every game, is just too big a price to pay and if he wasn't so integral to how Arteta wants the team to play - plus a teacher's pet ;) - he'd be on the bench most of the time if not sold by now

yes we don't transition well enough but it feels ilke that's a desire by Arteta to slow things down and have as much control as possible as anything else - he's very much from the 'patient buildup' school, but as we all know that gives the opposition far too much time to get organised

but i think we have players that could put together better movements but hey don't get a look-in - so i was all for selling ESR but it looks like he may have found some sharpenss and he's lost weight, but how many minutes is he going to get under such a stubborn manager?

[HCZ_Reborn]

my dislike of Zinchenko (and not the person mind, i mean the player) isn't just that he in general isn't good enough - not a pet hate but simple observation - but also as you say it's what he stands for with the whole inverted LB thing which makes us weaker in defence and adds very little in attack, as for him personally his propensity to give the ball away in dangerous situations, which literally happens in every game, is just too big a price to pay and if he wasn't so integral to how Arteta wants the team to play - plus a teacher's pet ;) - he'd be on the bench most of the time if not sold by now

yes we don't transition well enough but it feels ilke that's a desire by Arteta to slow things down and have as much control as possible as anything else - he's very much from the 'patient buildup' school, but as we all know that gives the opposition far too much time to get organised

but i think we have players that could put together better movements but hey don't get a look-in - so i was all for selling ESR but it looks like he may have found some sharpenss and he's lost weight, but how many minutes is he going to get under such a stubborn manager?

Rice isn’t a pet hate, and it’s an example of you arguing against a straw man that you’d even use that term. It is simply a fact that I don’t think he’s good enough for how I think we as a team should play.

I think he’s a damn hard worker, is excellent at tackles and interceptions and I think he is actually a natural leader. But let’s break down why Arteta wanted him, it’s because he’s obsessed with copying the blueprint at Man City, let’s overlook for a second the fact that City succeeds despite the system they play not because of it. But essentially that makes Rice what? Rodri…well first of all Rice could never hope to have the technical ability Rodri has. Second of all we don’t have the level of ball players around us to make playing one central midfielder remotely tenable. De Bruyne, Kovacic and even to an extent Bernardo Silva drop deeper to win possession, Odegaard absolutely does not nay cannot do this, neither can Havertz and I don’t think Vieira can either (although I think Arteta signed him to be this Bernardo Silva type player).

That means if you play out from the back you need two central midfielders, one to play through the press and one to drive from the defensive to the attacking half. Which as I stated in another post is the Arsenal blueprint, it’s the way we won three premier league titles and though the game has changed I call bollocks on anyone who says that isn’t the way most conducive to us winning things.

I like our attacking quartet, I think it’s one of the changes Arteta brought about that I’m unquestionably in favour of. Problem is, he doesn’t agree and has tried to make it an attacking quintet.