Where Arsenal is going wrong

[IBK]

This is not another gripe about AW or our players. I feel as disillusioned as the next Gooner - but TBH the constant gloom and doom around our club is getting wearing - and the net effect is to kill my enthusiasm a bit.

And its this that is making me think about why things have got to this 'perfect storm' of negativity. We seem to slag many of our players off constantly, yet as a team they still finished 4th in the league last season, were narrowly beaten in the CL by the supposed best team in the world (the EPL winners - the mighty Manure - were thrashed by them in the final), and did better for most of the season than they had been expected to.

We bitch about 6 years without a trophy, yet realistically - for four of those years we could be said to have over-achieved rather than under-achieved - while the club achieved a stadium project that the likes of Liverpool; Spurs and Everton are still dreaming about.

Last season we might have imploded at the end but our most bitter rivals ended up out of the CL - having spent years and tens of millions in player purchases trying to get there. Yet Spurs fans are nowhere near as despondent and angry as we are.

Yes, some of our players have underperformed - but this is the case at every club. We are frail defensively - but still one of the best in the league going forwards. We lack leadership - but have a more British flavour in our team now than we have had for a decade.

On a rataional basis, none of the above should be sufficient to casue the angst that results in the team being booed in friendlies at the beginning of the season!

So why the bitterness? Well IMO it is mostly to do with the disconnect that has arisen between fans and the board, and the club is handling the situation badly.

After the horror show of last season, fans want reassurance that decisive steps are being taken to address the situation. Yet our transfer season has been anything but decisive. We have had statements from AW and Gazidis that there will be serious activity in the transfer market, but what activity there has been seems at best tentative. I now that Arsenal is traditionally very secretive, and that AW is ultra conservative and principled in terms of offers - but I think that for once the penny counting should be put aside, and a bold move made for the likes of Mata or Jagielka. The fans and the players need a shot in the arm and a confidence boost - and this perceived dithering is achieving the opposite.

The Cesc and Nasri situations are being allowed to drag the club down. I have sympathy for the club here - because much of this is outside its control, but the perception is that the players and Barca are being allowed to disrupt our pre season, and I think that more decisiveness needs to be shown. For example, I think that we should have moved for Mata in any event, which would mitigate the effect of these ongoing sagas.

And fans' intelligence is being insulted, to a degree. The club needs to realise that although Gooners might be lucky in some ways, we don't feel lucky, because we have had precious little that feels like upside for many years - yet we are paying the highest ticket prices in the league. The club has gone too far down the spin/smoke and mirrors route - and should recognise that while sound business principles are important in one sense - keeping fans happy is an important part of this. Because discontent off the pitch is too easily translated into nervous and lacklustre performances on it. I think that the club - both by its actions, and by the noises coming out of the manager and the board is neglecting this factor.

Thoughts?

[KSE Comedy Club]

I dont mean to sound negative on your thread mate, but there are numerous other threads that are discussing the same topic over and over again.

I really dont think we need another thread, going over the same stuff thats already being said.

:good:

[LDG]

Always said Wenger did wonders when we were moving to a new stadium. To keep us top four in the current environment was pretty amazing.

I've also said that it's not about 6 years for me. It's about the last three. I've always understiid the need for patience whilst we sorted out the massive project of moving to a new ground, and all the financial implications of that, not least the downturn in the economy when we'd banked on those Highbury flats flying out of the door.

The last three years, though, have gone down a similar route. Playing well, but then failing to capitalise on our early season form, and collapsing in a heap.

And those collapses are not down to the talent of the current players. More down to the attitude of those players, and the same mistake being made over and over again. All fans have asked for, is that we strengthen when it is clear we need strengthening. That we put an end to the defensive deficiancies by organising and coaching the team, and by supplimenting the defence with strength in depth rather than Sylvester and Squilaci.

Nobody has asked for the club to spend spend spend spend. They have just asked that we rectify the same problems that have blighted the last few campaigns. Problems obvious to all and sundry, from child to adult, from mongo to genius. And they haven't been...and that is why people are pissed off.

At the end of the day, relative to the vast sums Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool and Utd have spent in recent years, we're not asking for much. We've been patient. We've put our trust in Wenger that what he was doing was right, depsite our doubts....so why now should we not voice our concerns and displeasure??

You're right that we have it better than a lot of clubs. But we're in the top bracket of clubs in Europe, and as such, we should be more professional from board, to PR, to manager, to player....and actually respect the fans, and that they actually might know something about the game.

I've been a follower of Arsenal since before Jack Wilshere was born, so to say that I should be patient and I don't know anything is rather disrespectful...especially given the amount of my money has gone into their pockets....and all I've asked is that we sort out the mistakes.

[Injury Time]

I miss CKs summaries of long winded posts :upset:

We (well I) want heroes, players committed to give it all to the club, I'd settle for two or three that give it all on the pitch not the :blah: of twitter or other media outlets, that pulled the shirt on with pride, didn't bitch about wages :violin:, chants that aren't shit (yes I'm looking at yours RvP), a manager that just STFU rather same old spin about character and spirit when they have shown neither, I want Mr T to rip on to the pitch with his tank and tell the players to get some Nuts!

What do we get, tippy tappy bollix and :handbags:

[IBK]

Always said Wenger did wonders when we were moving to a new stadium. To keep us top four in the current environment was pretty amazing.

I've also said that it's not about 6 years for me. It's about the last three. I've always understiid the need for patience whilst we sorted out the massive project of moving to a new ground, and all the financial implications of that, not least the downturn in the economy when we'd banked on those Highbury flats flying out of the door.

The last three years, though, have gone down a similar route. Playing well, but then failing to capitalise on our early season form, and collapsing in a heap.

And those collapses are not down to the talent of the current players. More down to the attitude of those players, and the same mistake being made over and over again. All fans have asked for, is that we strengthen when it is clear we need strengthening. That we put an end to the defensive deficiancies by organising and coaching the team, and by supplimenting the defence with strength in depth rather than Sylvester and Squilaci.

Nobody has asked for the club to spend spend spend spend. They have just asked that we rectify the same problems that have blighted the last few campaigns. Problems obvious to all and sundry, from child to adult, from mongo to genius. And they haven't been...and that is why people are pissed off.

At the end of the day, relative to the vast sums Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool and Utd have spent in recent years, we're not asking for much. We've been patient. We've put our trust in Wenger that what he was doing was right, depsite our doubts....so why now should we not voice our concerns and displeasure??

You're right that we have it better than a lot of clubs. But we're in the top bracket of clubs in Europe, and as such, we should be more professional from board, to PR, to manager, to player....and actually respect the fans, and that they actually might know something about the game.

I've been a follower of Arsenal since before Jack Wilshere was born, so to say that I should be patient and I don't know anything is rather disrespectful...especially given the amount of my money has gone into their pockets....and all I've asked is that we sort out the mistakes.

Genuine question, mate. All clubs fans think that their manager makes mistakes in one way or another. Yes ours seem more repetetive - but do you think that you would feel happeier about AFC ATM if we heard far less bullshit/PR speak, and had a board that acknowledged that the club needs a lift and that they are doing everything they can to achieve this?

I know i would.

[IBK]

I dont mean to sound negative on your thread mate, but there are numerous other threads that are discussing the same topic over and over again.

I really dont think we need another thread, going over the same stuff thats already being said.

:good:

Apologies if you think I am going over old ground. I was trying to give a different take on the situation. I agree that there are a number of threads slagging the club off - I was trying to look at where the club is going wrong from a fans' management/PR point of view...

[LDG]

Genuine question, mate. All clubs fans think that their manager makes mistakes in one way or another. Yes ours seem more repetetive - but do you think that you would feel happeier about AFC ATM if we heard far less bullshit/PR speak, and had a board that acknowledged that the club needs a lift and that they are doing everything they can to achieve this?

I know i would.

I don't believe a word they say anymore tbh. AW in particular sounds more like a politician every time he speaks. I understand we've always been private about business, but you can't talk on one hand about "healthy finances" and then say "we don't speak about this that or the other".

PR is all wrong, and it doesn't serve to quell the disatisfaction amongst our fanbase.

Actions speak louder than words, and so I choose not to listen too much to what our manager has to say, or what Gadzidasnjje has to say either.

But given that our actions are precisely cock all at the moment, and coming off the back of the most horrific collapse thus far, it doesn't really sit well when P-Diddy to the HW comes our with "be bloody patient".

The only way the club will make us believe again, is by making the necessary changes to to the team, and the way we play. It's a football team after all, and that is why we follow them. More words will not placate me in the slightest.

[IBK]

I don't believe a word they say anymore tbh. AW in particular sounds more like a politician every time he speaks. I understand we've always been private about business, but you can't talk on one hand about "healthy finances" and then say "we don't speak about this that or the other".

PR is all wrong, and it doesn't serve to quell the disatisfaction amongst our fanbase.

Actions speak louder than words, and so I choose not to listen too much to what our manager has to say, or what Gadzidasnjje has to say either.

But given that our actions are precisely cock all at the moment, and coming off the back of the most horrific collapse thus far, it doesn't really sit well when P-Diddy to the HW comes our with "be bloody patient".

The only way the club will make us believe again, is by making the necessary changes to to the team, and the way we play. It's a football team after all, and that is why we follow them. More words will not placate me in the slightest.

Understood, but I wonder whether the level of unrest ATM is because the manager and board give the impression either of being delusional, or of knowing what is wrong but refusing to address it for commercial reasons.

I may be naive, but I am suprised that genuine Arsenal fans (rather than plastics) would be this upset simply because of the team's limited failings. We haven't fallen out of the CL places or been relegated, have we - yet the angst around AFC is worse than it was around Liverpool last season.

Surely its the club's/manager's attitude, rather than the problems on the pitch that is to blame for the degree of disenchantment? I mean we all know that we are unlikely to win the league with our relative resources - don't we?

[LDG]

Well, we should have won the league last year IMO, but that's another discussion.

I get what you're saying, and if it hadn't been for 3 years of the same, then I'd agree with you. In fact, last season I was fairly happy, as I had assumed we'd finally take the plunge and do what was necessary. I was convinced we wouldn't fall away again....but we did, and in the most horric way yet.

We've been there or thereabouts with Chelsea spending tonnes. I know they've been better than us, and their titles show that, but we weren't that far off. And we're still a top force IMO. I think we have the talent to challenge for the title.

BUT. It does require a bit of strengthening, and it requires some tactical change, and some marshalling (both captain and manager).

So, for a limited amount of cash, and some changes in our coaching set up, we'd be comfortable. I think we'd still be biting at the leaders heels in May.

We haven't done the necessary, and I don't believe it's a question of financial disparity. It's all down to a managers refusal to accept his mistakes, a board who are happy because we're in the CL, and numerous other overlooked problems which saddle us with problems (see Nick Benders wage demands and why we can't sell the cunt).

It doesn't need loads of money throwing at it. It just needs some balls. Because all in all, that's what we lack. Bollocks. From Board to Manager, to Players.

[IBK]

Well, we should have won the league last year IMO, but that's another discussion.

I get what you're saying, and if it hadn't been for 3 years of the same, then I'd agree with you. In fact, last season I was fairly happy, as I had assumed we'd finally take the plunge and do what was necessary. I was convinced we wouldn't fall away again....but we did, and in the most horric way yet.

We've been there or thereabouts with Chelsea spending tonnes. I know they've been better than us, and their titles show that, but we weren't that far off. And we're still a top force IMO. I think we have the talent to challenge for the title.

BUT. It does require a bit of strengthening, and it requires some tactical change, and some marshalling (both captain and manager).

So, for a limited amount of cash, and some changes in our coaching set up, we'd be comfortable. I think we'd still be biting at the leaders heels in May.

We haven't done the necessary, and I don't believe it's a question of financial disparity. It's all down to a managers refusal to accept his mistakes, a board who are happy because we're in the CL, and numerous other overlooked problems which saddle us with problems (see Nick Benders wage demands and why we can't sell the cunt).

It doesn't need loads of money throwing at it. It just needs some balls. Because all in all, that's what we lack. Bollocks. From Board to Manager, to Players.

I agree entirely - and FWIW the main issue for me is AW's stranglehold on the team that seems to leech out individuality (remember when RVP was a shit hot free kick taker?), and prevents him from getting in a Martin Keown as a defensive coach.

But do the grievances you set out justify the level of bitterness we are seeing?

[LDG]

Yes. I'm not in the kamakazi club. Far from it. I'm not a spoilt brat.

But what I do see is a manager with so much to give, and players with so much talent. So why the fuck waste it all because you don't believe in teaching the basics of football?? And that is outrageous....far worse than if we just couldn't afford to buy because the board were writing themselves cheques.

The board can pay each other and the players as much as they sodding want for all I care, as long as they do the business on the pitch.

And that is what pisses me off...because effectively it feels like they're taking the piss out of me. And to do that to a fan who has followed every sodding kick and cried and cheered and lived every moment for 27 years...it's a little hard to take.

1 Centre Back. 1 Striker. TV5 gets the armband. That's all I want now in terms of spending with the current squad.

What I want most, is for us to grow a pair, and learn the basics as well as the nice stuff.

[Grebbo]

For me it's the moaning that does my head in. Constant moaning from Wenger:

'They only wanted to defend and didn't want to let us win'
'They were too rough'
'They spent money on buying players'
'I hope we recover after this disappointment'
'We're a young team'

Add the constant defeatist attitude '4th is success' and is it any wonder the team is so gutless and shit?

Wenger moans more than the fans - that's how bad he is.

[IBK]

I wonder what needs to happen, though. Could we all do with being a bit more honest?

I have lost a lot of respect for the manager because of his contadictory statements and his spin on everything. I don't want naivity, but I also don't want my manager having a reputation for whingeing.

I am more ambivalent about this issue of finishing fourth, though, because it is probably our natural level now, given the financial power elsewhere. I don't necessarily think its the talk of fourth being a good result that is the cause of the complacency amongst our players - I think its because we have paid to much, and given far too much time and patience to players who aren't good enough. The fact that we are struggling to sell some of the dead wood speaks for itself.

[LDG]

Wenger himself acknowledged all of our deficiencies at the end of the season, and said he was going to put them right.

I haven't seen anything which remotely looks like he's putting those right. He's tried to sell the dross, but failed. They're fucking around with two players who don't want to play for us, one being our captain. The same mistakes are being made pre-season in terms of the defence. Moreover, we haven't managed to buy a proper defender because we won't pay the market price.

Trophies don't matter. Fourth doesn't matter. Money doesn't matter. City don't matter. Utd don't matter. Mata doesn't fucking matter.

What does matter is that we see some action from our management that proves they have learnt from their mistakes, and are trying to put them right, whether we finish top or bottom. And we aren't seeing that, and we have 11 days until the season starts.

[IBK]

Wenger himself acknowledged all of our deficiencies at the end of the season, and said he was going to put them right.

I haven't seen anything which remotely looks like he's putting those right. He's tried to sell the dross, but failed. They're fucking around with two players who don't want to play for us, one being our captain. The same mistakes are being made pre-season in terms of the defence. Moreover, we haven't managed to buy a proper defender because we won't pay the market price.

Trophies don't matter. Fourth doesn't matter. Money doesn't matter. City don't matter. Utd don't matter. Mata doesn't fucking matter.

What does matter is that we see some action from our management that proves they have learnt from their mistakes, and are trying to put them right, whether we finish top or bottom. And we aren't seeing that, and we have 11 days until the season starts.

My concern is that the manager believes that the way to address our deficiencies (and it is important to see these deficiencies in context, BTW), is to buy new players - rather than to address the way the side trains, and plays the game.

The only reason we haven't concluded deals for such players is because of the Cesc limbo situation - and here we are seeing two things happening.

First, the failure of a classic AW gamble - tell him you want another year out of him to win things last year, and then believe (mistakenly) that you can persuade him to stay another year after that.

Second - AW with his eye off the ball in terms of his primary job. To me this brinkmanship with Barca is because selling Cesc for less than his valuation offends AW's business ideals - and the effect is that it is delaying us sealing other needed transfer deals. At any other top club, the manager would be being told to do what he needs to to strengthen the team. Wenger has made a killing on other big player transfers away from AFC, and as Grebbo says on the other thread - Cesc is already gone - in fact he was gone halfway through last season. Take the £5M hit. Acknowledge that this is not because of any negotiating tactic, but because of the simple fact that Barca don't need him desperately, but he doesn't want to stay with us, sell him and bring in someone else. Don't gamble with the team's season.

[Niall_Quinn]

Understood, but I wonder whether the level of unrest ATM is because the manager and board give the impression either of being delusional, or of knowing what is wrong but refusing to address it for commercial reasons.

I may be naive, but I am suprised that genuine Arsenal fans (rather than plastics) would be this upset simply because of the team's limited failings. We haven't fallen out of the CL places or been relegated, have we - yet the angst around AFC is worse than it was around Liverpool last season.

Surely its the club's/manager's attitude, rather than the problems on the pitch that is to blame for the degree of disenchantment? I mean we all know that we are unlikely to win the league with our relative resources - don't we?

I agree with what you've identified as the root of the problem. Fans can take defeat, they can even survive languishing at the foot of the table for an extended period - provided the AMBITION is to improve. However when the leaders at the club are refusing to acknowledge there is anything significantly wrong and pour scorn on anyone who suggests otherwise, that level of contempt is going to be reciprocated. Many of the fans see the club going from great, to average, to bad, to worse. The media see it too, the ex-players, the current players who want out or would never dream of coming here in the first place. Everyone can see it. Except the board and the manager. They're right, the rest of the world is wrong even though they have zero evidence to back up their assertions. On the contrary, all they have to look at is a stream of failure. Yet they still insist things are on track. Arrogance, incompetence, both?

Our captain won't play for us, our defenders look like they haven't trained in years, we have one striker who's injury prone, we're overloaded with very average squad players that have repeatedly shown they are not up to the task. According to the board what we need is patience. Patience for what? What's going to happen if we are patient? Will it be like the glories the were hung off the back of the stadium move? More empty promises?

If I could see a leader emerge from the pack, somebody who would grab the problems and shake them out and find tangible solutions - even if those solutions were going to take a year or two or even three more to materialise, that'd be okay. If I thought we were stopping the rot and making every effort to slowly reverse the downward trend, that would be great, I'd support that. Instead we have a bunch of arrogant cocks who want us to shut the fuck up, hand over our wallets and leave it entirely to them even though they are completely fucking it up. Oh, and they're getting rich in the process.

So yes, the board and the manager and the intense disrespect they have for the fans. That's probably the biggest problem because divided we'll fall. But blind loyalty isn't the answer either, neither is capitulation to authority and expertise for the sake of it. Everyone, from high to low has a right to say hey, what a fuck up! If the board don't like it they can piss off and go and bank the Fabregas transfer money and buy themselves and new yacht... see if I care...

Oh wait...

[IBK]

I agree with what you've identified as the root of the problem. Fans can take defeat, they can even survive languishing at the foot of the table for an extended period - provided the AMBITION is to improve. However when the leaders at the club are refusing to acknowledge there is anything significantly wrong and pour scorn on anyone who suggests otherwise, that level of contempt is going to be reciprocated. Many of the fans see the club going from great, to average, to bad, to worse. The media see it too, the ex-players, the current players who want out or would never dream of coming here in the first place. Everyone can see it. Except the board and the manager. They're right, the rest of the world is wrong even though they have zero evidence to back up their assertions. On the contrary, all they have to look at is a stream of failure. Yet they still insist things are on track. Arrogance, incompetence, both?

Our captain won't play for us, our defenders look like they haven't trained in years, we have one striker who's injury prone, we're overloaded with very average squad players that have repeatedly shown they are not up to the task. According to the board what we need is patience. Patience for what? What's going to happen if we are patient? Will it be like the glories the were hung off the back of the stadium move? More empty promises?

If I could see a leader emerge from the pack, somebody who would grab the problems and shake them out and find tangible solutions - even if those solutions were going to take a year or two or even three more to materialise, that'd be okay. If I thought we were stopping the rot and making every effort to slowly reverse the downward trend, that would be great, I'd support that. Instead we have a bunch of arrogant cocks who want us to shut the fuck up, hand over our wallets and leave it entirely to them even though they are completely fucking it up. Oh, and they're getting rich in the process.

So yes, the board and the manager and the intense disrespect they have for the fans. That's probably the biggest problem because divided we'll fall. But blind loyalty isn't the answer either, neither is capitulation to authority and expertise for the sake of it. Everyone, from high to low has a right to say hey, what a fuck up! If the board don't like it they can piss off and go and bank the Fabregas transfer money and buy themselves and new yacht... see if I care...

Oh wait...

Depressing, but true. And I can see exactly where LDG is coming from and why - and his is a good example of what is happening to Arsenal fans - because he genuinely believed that the penny had finally dropped and there would be a change of direction this Summer, but there is precious little evidence of that. So even the patient, the stalwarts rather than the plastics , are becoming disillusioned.

And the level of angst is being caused by the attitude towards us at the top. I found it genuinely depressing on Sunday that what started off as a sunny, promising day, had to end with boos - and that was what Afobe, and a returning TH14 will remember. But the club's attitude is to criticise the booing, rather than trying to understand what lies behind it.

[LDG]

Depressing, but true. And I can see exactly where LDG is coming from and why - and his is a good example of what is happening to Arsenal fans - because he genuinely believed that the penny had finally dropped and there would be a change of direction this Summer, but there is precious little evidence of that. So even the patient, the stalwarts rather than the plastics , are becoming disillusioned.

And the level of angst is being caused by the attitude towards us at the top. I found it genuinely depressing on Sunday that what started off as a sunny, promising day, had to end with boos - and that was what Afobe, and a returning TH14 will remember. But the club's attitude is to criticise the booing, rather than trying to understand what lies behind it.

Pretty much mate.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I believe a lot of our problems stem from not being able to recognise our own face in the mirror!

It's as we see the problems ie the defence but just refuse to look at them more through them and my looking through them we fail to acknowledge them thus leave them unattended.

The GK/defence problem has been with us for yonks now and the lack of mental strength, just as long.......a failure to kill off games comes about by this because we prance around like everyone owes us.

No-one thinks they owe us anything, thats why we get pushed around......we get pushed around on the pitch, in the transfer market and by our own players and their contracts.
This summer seems to be a prime example.......we are incapable it seems of clinching a deal without a drawn out saga.......we get every bid we make thrown back at us be it for our lack of respect and arrogance or that we are just tight. Teams know they can say no and force us to come back with another offer or lose out.......they also know we half, maybe 3/4s have our hands tieed because we cant decide what to do about Cesc/Nasri..........FFS just grow a pair and for IMO tke a hit.......sell them both and build new tem of commited players........I will take a naff season if I see ambition in the team

I agree there is a lot of moaning but that can be expected........we are having a rough time and we all believe we have the answer, we dont know what is going on so we assume and like most, those assumptions are negative but fairly made on past experiences and evidence.
Everyone is shit scared of Wenger doing another tick like he did last year.......Kos and Squid to answer our defensive needs.

The board are the only ones who dont seem to be getting pushed around, in fact they are times seem to be unmovable, the stubborn gits.......they seem to pushing us around, getting us to accept, statements, quickly followed by contradictory actions...........I remain optimistic that there are still things to happen but I get frustrated most by the Cesc/Nasri sagas and want to see these concluded, I heard Wenger saying by Sunday, but I still feel none the wiser.

time to take a hard look, a hard look at ourselves and what needs to be done in order to make ourselves beautiful again.......it may not require that much but it does require some work Wenger........hopefully you will see it for what it really is!

[AKBapologist]

You want us to be more decisive in transfers? I agree.

Next.

[IBK]

I believe a lot of our problems stem from not being able to recognise our own face in the mirror!

It's as we see the problems ie the defence but just refuse to look at them more through them and my looking through them we fail to acknowledge them thus leave them unattended.

The GK/defence problem has been with us for yonks now and the lack of mental strength, just as long.......a failure to kill off games comes about by this because we prance around like everyone owes us.

No-one thinks they owe us anything, thats why we get pushed around......we get pushed around on the pitch, in the transfer market and by our own players and their contracts.
This summer seems to be a prime example.......we are incapable it seems of clinching a deal without a drawn out saga.......we get every bid we make thrown back at us be it for our lack of respect and arrogance or that we are just tight. Teams know they can say no and force us to come back with another offer or lose out.......they also know we half, maybe 3/4s have our hands tieed because we cant decide what to do about Cesc/Nasri..........FFS just grow a pair and for IMO tke a hit.......sell them both and build new tem of commited players........I will take a naff season if I see ambition in the team

I agree there is a lot of moaning but that can be expected........we are having a rough time and we all believe we have the answer, we dont know what is going on so we assume and like most, those assumptions are negative but fairly made on past experiences and evidence.
Everyone is shit scared of Wenger doing another tick like he did last year.......Kos and Squid to answer our defensive needs.

The board are the only ones who dont seem to be getting pushed around, in fact they are times seem to be unmovable, the stubborn gits.......they seem to pushing us around, getting us to accept, statements, quickly followed by contradictory actions...........I remain optimistic that there are still things to happen but I get frustrated most by the Cesc/Nasri sagas and want to see these concluded, I heard Wenger saying by Sunday, but I still feel none the wiser.

time to take a hard look, a hard look at ourselves and what needs to be done in order to make ourselves beautiful again.......it may not require that much but it does require some work Wenger........hopefully you will see it for what it really is!

Problem is that we now have a bad reputation in a number of different ways:

- Contract ditherers - is it any wonder that other clubs and quality players don't take us seriously in the transfer market

- A selling club - personally, I find it unsurprising that Barca are playing the game they are. They know that in all likelihood we will sell in the end. And teh upside for them is that they don't even need him, and will be getting a world class player on the cheap. Meanwhile, our misguided efforts to get market price are playing havoc with our close season.

- A stepping stone. I don't believe that we are a true destination club ATM. This is why its easy to believe that Jagielka would rather stay put. We have a reputation for giving unknown/young players a break and rewarding them handsomely - but the most ambitious of them will invitably be tempted elsewhere.

- Serial under-achievers. I'm not sure that we deserve this rep, because IMHO AW has over-achieved with the players/funds at his disposal - but nevertheless we are seen as a team that will always fall short - whether it be the CL final; the CC final or the league

The end of last season and this transfer window has done nothing but double underline the above. Yet while decisive action is necessary to do something about the club's nose-diving reputation, we are giving every impression of fiddling while Rome burns - and the problem is that even a couple of signings now will make no difference to this perception.

We seem so small time it hurts!

[LDG]

Problem is that we now have a bad reputation in a number of different ways:

- Contract ditherers - is it any wonder that other clubs and quality players don't take us seriously in the transfer market

- A selling club - personally, I find it unsurprising that Barca are playing the game they are. They know that in all likelihood we will sell in the end. And teh upside for them is that they don't even need him, and will be getting a world class player on the cheap. Meanwhile, our misguided efforts to get market price are playing havoc with our close season.

- A stepping stone. I don't believe that we are a true destination club ATM. This is why its easy to believe that Jagielka would rather stay put. We have a reputation for giving unknown/young players a break and rewarding them handsomely - but the most ambitious of them will invitably be tempted elsewhere.

- Serial under-achievers. I'm not sure that we deserve this rep, because IMHO AW has over-achieved with the players/funds at his disposal - but nevertheless we are seen as a team that will always fall short - whether it be the CL final; the CC final or the league

The end of last season and this transfer window has done nothing but double underline the above. Yet while decisive action is necessary to do something about the club's nose-diving reputation, we are giving every impression of fiddling while Rome burns - and the problem is that even a couple of signings now will make no difference to this perception.

We seem so small time it hurts!

On the money.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Problem is that we now have a bad reputation in a number of different ways:

- Contract ditherers - is it any wonder that other clubs and quality players don't take us seriously in the transfer market

- A selling club - personally, I find it unsurprising that Barca are playing the game they are. They know that in all likelihood we will sell in the end. And teh upside for them is that they don't even need him, and will be getting a world class player on the cheap. Meanwhile, our misguided efforts to get market price are playing havoc with our close season.

- A stepping stone. I don't believe that we are a true destination club ATM. This is why its easy to believe that Jagielka would rather stay put. We have a reputation for giving unknown/young players a break and rewarding them handsomely - but the most ambitious of them will invitably be tempted elsewhere.

- Serial under-achievers. I'm not sure that we deserve this rep, because IMHO AW has over-achieved with the players/funds at his disposal - but nevertheless we are seen as a team that will always fall short - whether it be the CL final; the CC final or the league

The end of last season and this transfer window has done nothing but double underline the above. Yet while decisive action is necessary to do something about the club's nose-diving reputation, we are giving every impression of fiddling while Rome burns - and the problem is that even a couple of signings now will make no difference to this perception.

We seem so small time it hurts!

good post


We seem so small time it hurts!

that part I feel as LDG said is on the money.......and you're right it does hurt!

the warning signs were there, the fact that we couldn't win back to back league titles showed the cracks, it seems that we lack the ability to consolidate, build for the future all good and well but not strengthen today, big mistake IMO - that shows itself on the pitch too.......I mean how many of you are confident that a 2 goal lead at half-time means 3 points in the bag?
We skinted ourselves with the way we pampered the young-uns - Bendtner should never have been given the kind of salary he got at his age unless he was playing like a teenage Wayne Rooney. We will never tempt players from clubs that they feel are our equals - Jags is one of these,　I mean he has as much chance winning the CC with Everton as he does with us

Like I said, can't help but feeling like we get pushed around and its not until we decide to stand up for ourselves will things change......I believe it means taking a few risks, tinkering with the system both on and off the pitch
We are not a bad team we showed that we are not that far from achieving something but its just that it seems everyone has oue number knowes we will cave in if enough pressure is applied.......this again is both on and off the pitch because you can bet that Barca/Utd/Citeh are loving seeing us squirm as we fret over the future of certain players and the way such stories affect other squad members.

wish I had the answer but we do need to take a look in that mirror again and show more pride in ourselves/more self belief and above all from Wenger and the board more decisive leadership would be a start

[LDG]

It's looking more and more like the only thing that will stop the rot is fans voting with their wallets, as GB stated in his e-mail to vinger@marketing.arse.uk.

The only hope we have is that silent Stan see the problems which may affect his long-term investment, and kick the fuck out of the current board and the manager.

The more I think about it, whilst Wenger is in on the current plan, and is oh so obviously tied into his project and ideals, I'm sure he would also be open to more freedom in his purchasing should Jimmy Kranke decide enough is enough.

He won't walk away from a contract, so if Stan ups the ante and requests more from his manager, he'll stick in and perhaps do the necessary.

We can but hope.

For now, I think our owner is happy to watch by the sidelines.

[Dog Toffee]

This is not another gripe about AW or our players. I feel as disillusioned as the next Gooner - but TBH the constant gloom and doom around our club is getting wearing - and the net effect is to kill my enthusiasm a bit.

And its this that is making me think about why things have got to this 'perfect storm' of negativity. We seem to slag many of our players off constantly, yet as a team they still finished 4th in the league last season, were narrowly beaten in the CL by the supposed best team in the world (the EPL winners - the mighty Manure - were thrashed by them in the final), and did better for most of the season than they had been expected to.

We bitch about 6 years without a trophy, yet realistically - for four of those years we could be said to have over-achieved rather than under-achieved - while the club achieved a stadium project that the likes of Liverpool; Spurs and Everton are still dreaming about.

Last season we might have imploded at the end but our most bitter rivals ended up out of the CL - having spent years and tens of millions in player purchases trying to get there. Yet Spurs fans are nowhere near as despondent and angry as we are.

Yes, some of our players have underperformed - but this is the case at every club. We are frail defensively - but still one of the best in the league going forwards. We lack leadership - but have a more British flavour in our team now than we have had for a decade.

On a rataional basis, none of the above should be sufficient to casue the angst that results in the team being booed in friendlies at the beginning of the season!

So why the bitterness? Well IMO it is mostly to do with the disconnect that has arisen between fans and the board, and the club is handling the situation badly.

After the horror show of last season...

Doesn't really make sense

[IBK]

Doesn't really make sense

And that does?

[IBK]

It's looking more and more like the only thing that will stop the rot is fans voting with their wallets, as GB stated in his e-mail to vinger@marketing.arse.uk.

The only hope we have is that silent Stan see the problems which may affect his long-term investment, and kick the fuck out of the current board and the manager.

The more I think about it, whilst Wenger is in on the current plan, and is oh so obviously tied into his project and ideals, I'm sure he would also be open to more freedom in his purchasing should Jimmy Kranke decide enough is enough.

He won't walk away from a contract, so if Stan ups the ante and requests more from his manager, he'll stick in and perhaps do the necessary.

We can but hope.

For now, I think our owner is happy to watch by the sidelines.

The problem with this is that it will take a long time, IMO, for the club to exhaust the demand to a degree that causes a change in direction. I was struck on the weekend, by how many Gooners turned out to a competition that , TBH, has become a bit meaningless, and in circumstances where there was hardly an array of new talent on show.

And the real irony is that there is still enough in this team, and its likely performances to keep the punters coming back. We are not talking about a Liverpool style implosion at AFC - just a gnawing frustration that the club is not competing as strongly as it should be able to. Its astonishing that we should be even talking about a walk out given the relative position of the club.

But we have certainly lost the lustre we had 6 years ago - and the club is making some big mistakes in managing this situation. It is of great concern that at board level there seems an inability to see how we are increasingly being perceived outside the club.

[Fist of Lehmann]

The problem with this is that it will take a long time, IMO, for the club to exhaust the demand to a degree that causes a change in direction. I was struck on the weekend, by how many Gooners turned out to a competition that , TBH, has become a bit meaningless, and in circumstances where there was hardly an array of new talent on show.

And the real irony is that there is still enough in this team, and its likely performances to keep the punters coming back. We are not talking about a Liverpool style implosion at AFC - just a gnawing frustration that the club is not competing as strongly as it should be able to. Its astonishing that we should be even talking about a walk out given the relative position of the club.

But we have certainly lost the lustre we had 6 years ago - and the club is making some big mistakes in managing this situation. It is of great concern that at board level there seems an inability to see how we are increasingly being perceived outside the club.
The gradual loss of gates might represent a slow puncture, but an entended stay out of the top 4 and it's attendent CL revenue is more likely to precipitate change.

The sad thing is that apparently it is money that drives change not fan disatisfaction. Any club that ignores fans, and worse, seems to focus on 'monetising' them (in other words, turning fans into money), has forgotten what it exists for.

Forbes list us a the third richest club in the world worth $1.19bn. That's a figure that factors market share price, assets, revenue, debt and whatnot. And we have got there, not through the Arsenalisation of the Emirates, but through the Monetisation of the Arsenal.

Worse still is the idea that Man Utd can be even more profitable yet not at the expense of winning.

This is the entitlement generation, people feel they are owed something, especially those of us who pay through the nose to attend matches but also those who pay nothing and are angry by proxy. Because it's a psychology thing, even if we've paid nothing physically, we've still bought in.

This perfect storm of anger is akin to the behaviour of cheated and fobbed off consumers.

[IBK]

The gradual loss of gates might represent a slow puncture, but an entended stay out of the top 4 and it's attendent CL revenue is more likely to precipitate change.

The sad thing is that apparently it is money that drives change not fan disatisfaction. Any club that ignores fans, and worse, seems to focus on 'monetising' them (in other words, turning fans into money), has forgotten what it exists for.

Forbes list us a the third richest club in the world worth $1.19bn. That's a figure that factors market share price, assets, revenue, debt and whatnot. And we have got there, not through the Arsenalisation of the Emirates, but through the Monetisation of the Arsenal.

Worse still is the idea that Man Utd can be even more profitable yet not at the expense of winning.

This is the entitlement generation, people feel they are owed something, especially those of us who pay through the nose to attend matches but also those who pay nothing and are angry by proxy. Because it's a psychology thing, even if we've paid nothing physically, we've still bought in.

This perfect storm of anger is akin to the behaviour of cheated and fobbed off consumers.

:gp:

Especially


The gradual loss of gates might represent a slow puncture, but an entended stay out of the top 4 and it's attendent CL revenue is more likely to precipitate change.

This is the absolute crux of the matter. We fans may feel that things are headed in the wrong direction at our club, but I think that the manager, the owner and the board believe that the garden is absolutely rosy, while the mythical top 4 place keeps guaranteeing the revenue, the exposure and the attendances.

I'd say that this is why little seems to be happening to address what we fans see as glaring deficiencies, despite the right noises being made at different times. This together with perhaps an optimistic belief that the Fair Play rules might restore some parity to the EPL when they kick in.

The problem for me is that if this approach is taken top 4 becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, because players as well as fans will recognise that the team that results will not seriously be challenging for silverware.

There seems to be a serious lack of balls around AFC to

- Take some proper, decisive action to turn things around while we still maintain a vestige of 'big club' status

- Concentrate on the day job - which is achieving success on the football pitch rather than achieving the perfect business model

And the frustrating thing is that our club is big and established enough to get the 2 or 3 players we need without breaking the bank, and without fecking about and coming up short. But we are behaving like some loser earning chump change while being cuckholded by his wife.

[LDG]

Someone ought to get the video of all the games we fucked up in the last part of the season and remind Wenger of how gutted he was when he saw everything collapsing before his eyes.

Sadly what seems to have happened, is that the summer break has cooled his emotions, and now he's decided he was still right, and things only need a little tinker.

Cock that.

[AKBapologist]

This blog nails it:
http://wp.me/p19hmt-6B

/thread

[IBK]

This blog nails it:
http://wp.me/p19hmt-6B

/thread

So basically


the club is handling the situation badly.


fans want reassurance that decisive steps are being taken to address the situation. Yet our transfer season has been anything but decisive.


The Cesc and Nasri situations are being allowed to drag the club down.


And fans' intelligence is being insulted, to a degree.

I concur. ;)

[LDG]

This blog nails it:
http://wp.me/p19hmt-6B

/thread

Cracking read.

Nicely sourced AKB.

Says everything.

[Niall_Quinn]

This blog nails it:
http://wp.me/p19hmt-6B

/thread

If I was going to sum it all up, that's how I would say it. I agree with 99% of that article, except the bit he left out about Chamakh being shit (although he did hint at that by concluding our transfer dealings last season were catastrophic).

[Ernesto]

You know what really pisses me off- why is it that no f*ckin Manchester United player ever wants out of the club? Why is it that, even if they do, within a couple of weeks they change their minds? Take Ronaldo after the World Cup in 06, for example, or Rooney during the last season. Even in the rare event that a player totally and wholeheartedly wanted to leave the club, Ferguson wouldn't give in to their demands. In fact, he'd perhaps make a mockery of that player (e.g Heinze wanting to go to Liverpool only to be sold to Real Madrid)

Our club's a bloody laughing stock.

[Özim]

You know what really pisses me off- why is it that no f*ckin Manchester United player ever wants out of the club? Why is it that, even if they do, within a couple of weeks they change their minds? Take Ronaldo after the World Cup in 06, for example, or Rooney during the last season. Even in the rare event that a player totally and wholeheartedly wanted to leave the club, Ferguson wouldn't give in to their demands. In fact, he'd perhaps make a mockery of that player (e.g Heinze wanting to go to Liverpool only to be sold to Real Madrid)

Our club's a bloody laughing stock.
Yeah the thing is, don't make him angry, you wouldn't like him when he's angry...he throws sh*t around and everything.

[Darth Vela]

Ronaldo didn't leave Man U? Who's that greasy git playing for Real then?

Fwiw, I think all this transfer bollocks going wrong is another side effect of the 'project', we need to make space in the squad and on the wage bill and those dragging their feet are only making it more difficult to act, Denilson's gone but there's still plenty knocking around who're unwilling to take less wages or take a step down a club to further their careers.

[Ernesto]

Ronaldo didn't leave Man U? Who's that greasy git playing for Real then?

Darth, Ronaldo gave ManUre 3 good seasons after the World Cup debacle with Rooney. He, himself and the media created a huge story about him leaving and it looked for all the world like he was going to. However, he turned the corner, gave Ferguson and the Scum three great years and only THEN did he f*ck off to Real.

Compare that with us trying to appease our better players by giving them the captaincy. The same armband that Adams used to wear.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ronaldo didn't leave Man U? Who's that greasy git playing for Real then?

Fwiw, I think all this transfer bollocks going wrong is another side effect of the 'project', we need to make space in the squad and on the wage bill and those dragging their feet are only making it more difficult to act, Denilson's gone but there's still plenty knocking around who're unwilling to take less wages or take a step down a club to further their careers.

Please let's not get complacent about Denilson. He is NOT gone, he's on loan. He could come back and until that possibility is entirely erased we need to stay on guard.

[selassie]

This blog nails it:
http://wp.me/p19hmt-6B

/thread

:good:

Yeh that's a good read.

[Darth Vela]

Darth, Ronaldo gave ManUre 3 good seasons after the World Cup debacle with Rooney. He, himself and the media created a huge story about him leaving and it looked for all the world like he was going to. However, he turned the corner, gave Ferguson and the Scum three great years and only THEN did he f*ck off to Real.

Compare that with us trying to appease our better players by giving them the captaincy. The same armband that Adams used to wear.

It seems to me that Cesc got the 'one more year' speech last summer and he's not the only one that was persuaded to stay longer than he wanted, ofc there's plenty who haven't but that's the same for any club. I'm not completely sure Madrid wanted him after the World Cup as wasn't the following year the one where Ronaldo got ridiculously good? Either way, we have persuaded players to stay before, it's a shame we don't quite have the staying power we used to have but we've tried as much as we can imo, we're not a laughing stock yet, just a less attractive proposition than we were.

[Grebbo]

You know what really pisses me off- why is it that no f*ckin Manchester United player ever wants out of the club? Why is it that, even if they do, within a couple of weeks they change their minds? Take Ronaldo after the World Cup in 06, for example, or Rooney during the last season. Even in the rare event that a player totally and wholeheartedly wanted to leave the club, Ferguson wouldn't give in to their demands. In fact, he'd perhaps make a mockery of that player (e.g Heinze wanting to go to Liverpool only to be sold to Real Madrid)

Our club's a bloody laughing stock.

Because they are one of the biggest and most successful clubs in the world.

We are not.

[Xhaka Can’t]

This blog nails it:
http://wp.me/p19hmt-6B

/thread

Outstanding read.

Thank-you for that.

[Gubby Allen]

:good:

Yeh that's a good read.

It is a good read. I don't know what avaricious, egregious or pecuniary mean but I'll be using them from now on.

[Niall_Quinn]

It is a good read. I don't know what avaricious, egregious or pecuniary mean but I'll be using them from now on.

Avaricious is Nasri's nickname in the dressing room, egregious is the code word used for our defensive game plan and pecuniary is the trophy we are going for this year.

[dazthegooner]

Where Arsenal is going wrong? well for a start we're not winning a fucking thing!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Where Arsenal is going wrong? well for a start we're not winning a fucking thing!!!

We were unlucky in the Emirates Cup, we had our two best players missing (because they want to leave the club). We should have had a penalty in the first game, disgraceful referring robbed us of a trophy and you can't do much about that. By rights we should have won it and I hope the lads show togetherness and a little bit amazing spirit to come back next year and triumph (although I'm not sure there's going to be an Emirates Cup next year in which case robbed again!)

[Xhaka Can’t]

People seem to forget we remained undefeated in the Emirates Cup.

[Coney]

It is a good read. I don't know what avaricious, egregious or pecuniary mean but I'll be using them from now on.

"I use simple words. Some people like to use words like this," he gestures a long-word with his hands, "to try and confuse and stop you from understanding. I want everyone to understand what I say. Instead of saying 'he's avaricious', I'll say he's bloody greedy."
(Words of the great Bill Shankly, talking about smartarse commentators and reporters.)

[Gubby Allen]

The other thing about that article is a lot of things have pissed me off this year, but the most recent one, I heard during the Emirates Cup was Wenger saying something to the effect of: "There is only one deadline - the 31st August one"

No there isn't (I find it increasinly difficult to refrain from adding an insulting name for him at points like this).

What about the deadline of 13th August when the season starts, or the one a few days later when the champions league starts? Or the deadline around today where the last available pre-season game we will have departed for and any new signing has **** all by way of game time to integrate with his team mates.

Our season starts with exactly those type of 2nd tier of difficult matches which you need to win to achieve anything: Newcastle away, Livepool home probably around the 8th-12th hardest games we'll have.

Throw in a couple of crucial C.L ties (which could so easily have been avoided) and there's every chance we're going into those with the same croc that are in a horrendous run of form.

His comments to put pay to any belief that he is up at all hours desperately negotiating any deals in time for the season start, when for him the season starts half a dozen matches into it.

[Gubby Allen]

People seem to forget we remained undefeated in the Emirates Cup.

I'm sure we'll be reminded of that stat on the website and in the press conference after Newcastle if we toss away another 4 goal lead and cling on for a draw, having held Benfica:

"4 games unbeaten, ze spirit is back"

[Power n Glory]

Outstanding read.

Thank-you for that.

That's fantastic. Good read and hit so many points.

[Letters]

This blog nails it:
http://wp.me/p19hmt-6B

/thread

Wow. Excellent read. If we get the blog off the ground here we'll have to try to sign him if only as a guest writer.

[selassie]

The other thing about that article is a lot of things have pissed me off this year, but the most recent one, I heard during the Emirates Cup was Wenger saying something to the effect of: "There is only one deadline - the 31st August one"

No there isn't (I find it increasinly difficult to refrain from adding an insulting name for him at points like this).

What about the deadline of 13th August when the season starts, or the one a few days later when the champions league starts? Or the deadline around today where the last available pre-season game we will have departed for and any new signing has **** all by way of game time to integrate with his team mates.

Our season starts with exactly those type of 2nd tier of difficult matches which you need to win to achieve anything: Newcastle away, Livepool home probably around the 8th-12th hardest games we'll have.

Throw in a couple of crucial C.L ties (which could so easily have been avoided) and there's every chance we're going into those with the same croc that are in a horrendous run of form.

His comments to put pay to any belief that he is up at all hours desperately negotiating any deals in time for the season start, when for him the season starts half a dozen matches into it.

Don't do it to yourself Gubby, it will only make you feel more & more frustrated. I've given up with Arsene & the board, literally anything now will be a bonus. I'm not expecting anything, in fact if we sold Nasri & Fabregas tomorrow I wouldn't expect Arsene to spend a penny.

There is only so many broken promises you can take. Everyone knows there's problems, there have been for years.

Fuck it, not worth it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wow. Excellent read. If we get the blog off the ground here we'll have to try to sign him if only as a guest writer.

It is one of the best I've read.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wow. Excellent read. If we get the blog off the ground here we'll have to try to sign him if only as a guest writer.

He might cost too much, we cant afford the market rate.

also there's the waiting period to consider.

[Niall_Quinn]

It is one of the best I've read.

Nothing that hasn't been said here though - by the moaners.

[Coney]

He might cost too much, we cant afford the market rate.

also there's the waiting period to consider.

Maybe one of the youngsters can do our blog - should be a winning site in a few years time if they are any good.

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe one of the youngsters can do our blog - should be a winning site in a few years time if they are any good.

Is there an over 30's policy in place? I'll do it but only if I don't get dumped after putting in a solid year and attracting adoring fans.