How will the Fabregas debacle affect Wenger?

[IBK]

I've seen it asked whether losing Fabregas will affect Wenger's motivation. I think this is a fair question, since more than any other player Fabregas embodied AW's pastoral attitude to developing a world class player and building a team around him. The fact that there is no ready replacement lined up for him suggests to me that at least until very recently AW still believed that his personal relationship with the player, combined with Barcelona's outright refusal to meet our valuation, might miraculously convince him to stay - and I can well believe that this is a body blow for our manager.

If we hadn't seen evidence that our team in general seems to be stale and lacking in ideas, and that the manager has taken no substantive steps to alter the way we play the game, I might have suggested that maybe Fabregas leaving would be a kick up the ass that pursuaded our manager to freshen up the team properly and adopt a new approach - after all he has taken the team in new directions 2 or 3 times during his tenure.

But AW has looked increasingly desperate for the past 6 months - and I wonder whether what we have been seeing, both on and off the pitch, is a decline in the powers of the manager, as well as the ability of his team and the self-belief at the club.

What do people think will be the effect of Fabregas departure on the manager?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I've seen it asked whether losing Fabregas will affect Wenger's motivation. I think this is a fair question, since more than any other player Fabregas embodied AW's pastoral attitude to developing a world class player and building a team around him. The fact that there is no ready replacement lined up for him suggests to me that at least until very recently AW still believed that his personal relationship with the player, combined with Barcelona's outright refusal to meet our valuation, might miraculously convince him to stay - and I can well believe that this is a body blow for our manager.

If we hadn't seen evidence that our team in general seems to be stale and lacking in ideas, and that the manager has taken no substantive steps to alter the way we play the game, I might have suggested that maybe Fabregas leaving would be a kick up the ass that pursuaded our manager to freshen up the team properly and adopt a new approach - after all he has taken the team in new directions 2 or 3 times during his tenure.

But AW has looked increasingly desperate for the past 6 months - and I wonder whether what we have been seeing, both on and off the pitch, is a decline in the powers of the manager, as well as the ability of his team and the self-belief at the club.

What do people think will be the effect of Fabregas departure on the manager?

It has a big effect already, You can see its knocked him for six, the man is deflated, it will be good to see if he can lift the team up from this. But you can seeing loosing his head boy has hurt him alot

[IBK]

It has a big effect already, You can see its knocked him for six, the man is deflated, it will be good to see if he can lift the team up from this. But you can seeing loosing his head boy has hurt him alot

Which raises the question as to how much of our capitulation was down to these impending departures. And if not, if AW couldn't raise the team with Fabregas and Nasri there, how is he going to do so without them.

I would say that the need for a real warrior - a proper captain is magnified immensely - yet it looks like yet another non-captain material player is going to get the armband. And so we go on.

[Marc Overmars]

He must be pretty crushed given that Cesc represented his vision.

Should spur him on to change things for the better hopefully.

[Darth Vela]

I don't know, really.

I think he probably realised the end was nigh and with the collective failure last season I think he was more open to it. The way Cesc spoke about AW would seem to imply that the Spanish press narrative of Wenger clinging onto him for dear life in order to piss off Barca and almost against Cesc's will was more or less fabrications.

Nasri is different though, I think the plan was to groom him as the new Cesc and THAT has left Wenger a little nonplussed, hopefully we've been preparing for Nasri leaving in the last few months and are ready to spring into action and bring in targets, I wouldn't want to bet on it though.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is more and more looking like we have a bunch of absolute, total, unspeakably greedy cunts in the boardroom. Anti-football pricks to a bastard and that includes the yank who has visibly done fuck all except put his foot down on the Nasri sale - to ensure it goes through of course. It's also starting to look like Wenger has been carrying the can for these cowardly shits for a long time. When your bosses are among the worst scum to ever crawl on the face of the planet, sure, I bet it can wear you down. I say this because there's no way Wenger is an unintelligent man. but he's coming across as an utter tool at the moment and I don't see why he would set out to do that deliberately. Is he really so unprofessional he can have a laugh about the crisis we're in at the moment, just to muck around with the media? That seems far fetched to me. I smell old Etonians and nouveau riche yanks and it's a foul stench.

[Grebbo]

It wont affect him at all. He's be treading water for years.

I'm gonna love seeing his excuse for not spending the Cesc and Nasri money. I wonder what shite he'll come out with?

[Flavs]

I genuinely think he will be sacked before xmas. I think the board will use it as a show of power to whoever replaces him. We have paid the mortgage for the season now so we can wander on through the football as we gradually fade into obscurity.

Everything he does now will be ridiculed by the fans, it doesn’t matter who he buys (I mean if he went out and shocked us by buying someone world class i think he would be given grace byut he wouldn’t ever do that) I genuinely think its another season like the last ones, good players leave, worse players come in and are supplemented by kids and we suffer as a unit because of it.

The difference between this and the last 2 seasons is one Stan Kroenke. Now we have an owner rather than a group of dusty old farts in a room i think Wenger will be more answerable, there already seems to be conflict between Gazidis’ words and Wenger’s. I am usually one of Arsene’s staunchest supporters but even I have had enough of the bullshit and the endless nonsense he speaks. The tactics are poor, the squad is worse, the fitness is a joke and a lot of our players are making noises about leaving. The saddest thing is that the only one i would have been sad about going just left this morning

[Boss]

I genuinely think he will be sacked before xmas.

Hope you're right as that's the only way we can move on.

[Marc Overmars]

You know things are bad when optimists like Flavs sense doom.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You know things are bad when optimists like Flavs sense doom.

This


genuinely think he will be sacked before xmas.

This, deffo his last season, i can even see him walking out in the next few weeks way things are going.

[StamfordBrdige]

I genuinely think he will be sacked before xmas. I think the board will use it as a show of power to whoever replaces him. We have paid the mortgage for the season now so we can wander on through the football as we gradually fade into obscurity.

Everything he does now will be ridiculed by the fans, it doesn’t matter who he buys (I mean if he went out and shocked us by buying someone world class i think he would be given grace byut he wouldn’t ever do that) I genuinely think its another season like the last ones, good players leave, worse players come in and are supplemented by kids and we suffer as a unit because of it.

The difference between this and the last 2 seasons is one Stan Kroenke. Now we have an owner rather than a group of dusty old farts in a room i think Wenger will be more answerable, there already seems to be conflict between Gazidis’ words and Wenger’s. I am usually one of Arsene’s staunchest supporters but even I have had enough of the bullshit and the endless nonsense he speaks. The tactics are poor, the squad is worse, the fitness is a joke and a lot of our players are making noises about leaving. The saddest thing is that the only one i would have been sad about going just left this morning

That is about as likely as me getting it on with Natascha McElhone tonight.

[LDG]

That is about as likely as me getting it on with Natascha McElhone tonight.

Who?

[Arsenal Fan]

he's over it already...

[Xhaka Can’t]

If Wenger was younger, I reckon this would have been a blow, but a blow he could recover from. I think this is the start of the end with Wenger. He looks deflated, is subject to ridicule from within and outside the Club and now his legacy is unravelling before his eyes.

I want a change of Manager and have done for eleven months now, but I never wanted it to come to this, especially for a man who was the architect of some of the most breathtaking football we are ever likely to see in Club football.

[Flavs]

You know things are bad when optimists like Flavs sense doom.

I have genuinely reached the end of my tether mate, not the Fabregas thing as that isn’t a surprise but after watching the Newcastle game you could just see we aren’t up for it as a team, the tactics are absolute shite, the bench was some kind of joke and the starting 11 wasnt good enough. I think all factors considered Wenger should have around £80mil to spend including the Nasri fee and Champs league qualification. Unless he spends most of that on 2 or 3 top class players i cant see him lasting. We keep selling and selling while replacing with youth and cheaps its never gonna work.

God help him if we don’t qualify for the champs league.

[IBK]

I genuinely think he will be sacked before xmas. I think the board will use it as a show of power to whoever replaces him. We have paid the mortgage for the season now so we can wander on through the football as we gradually fade into obscurity.

Everything he does now will be ridiculed by the fans, it doesn’t matter who he buys (I mean if he went out and shocked us by buying someone world class i think he would be given grace byut he wouldn’t ever do that) I genuinely think its another season like the last ones, good players leave, worse players come in and are supplemented by kids and we suffer as a unit because of it.

The difference between this and the last 2 seasons is one Stan Kroenke. Now we have an owner rather than a group of dusty old farts in a room i think Wenger will be more answerable, there already seems to be conflict between Gazidis’ words and Wenger’s. I am usually one of Arsene’s staunchest supporters but even I have had enough of the bullshit and the endless nonsense he speaks. The tactics are poor, the squad is worse, the fitness is a joke and a lot of our players are making noises about leaving. The saddest thing is that the only one i would have been sad about going just left this morning

Yup - I think he'll walk rather than be sacked. But I'm with you. I'm done with Wenger.

Even before this Summer he looked as though he didn't have a plan, and was bemused by why his genius wasn't working. I think even that our play has deteriorated over the past couple of years, and a scintillating performance is very, vvery much the exception rather than the rule. This has had the smell of the end of an era for some time, and Wengers dithering in a truly horrible summer, together with the clear evidence that nothing's changed on the pitch suggests a man who has lost his way. Cesc's departure may have been the final straw.

[Kano]

no way will the club sack him mid season, no matter.

if he is to be pushed, it will be next summer at the earliest.

[fakeyank]

It wont affect him at all. He's be treading water for years.

I'm gonna love seeing his excuse for not spending the Cesc and Nasri money. I wonder what shite he'll come out with?

We will only sign players that will improve the quality of the squad. We are after super quality players.

[StamfordBrdige]

Who?

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We are after super quality posters.

That isn't working out either.

[fakeyank]

I have genuinely reached the end of my tether mate, not the Fabregas thing as that isn’t a surprise but after watching the Newcastle game you could just see we aren’t up for it as a team, the tactics are absolute shite, the bench was some kind of joke and the starting 11 wasnt good enough. I think all factors considered Wenger should have around £80mil to spend including the Nasri fee and Champs league qualification. Unless he spends most of that on 2 or 3 top class players i cant see him lasting. We keep selling and selling while replacing with youth and cheaps its never gonna work.

God help him if we don’t qualify for the champs league.

And this is precisely why I want us to go out of CL.

Since we know God = not real, nobody can help AW if we go out! WIN! :dance:

[fakeyank]

We are after super quality posters.

That isn't working out either.

Lucky then that you have me and the Asian bhaiyas on here or this place would be like Arsenal FC! :lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Lucky then that you have me and the Asian bhaiyas on here or this place would be like Arsenal FC! :lol:

Yeah.

Every day I thank my lucky stars.

[fakeyank]

Yeah.

Every day I thank my lucky stars.

:gp:

[StamfordBrdige]

And this is precisely why I want us to go out of CL.

Since we know God = not real, nobody can help AW if we go out! WIN! :dance:

:haha:

[Marc Overmars]

God help him if we don’t qualify for the champs league.

I think this is a genuine possibility. If we don't do the business tomorrow we are in huge danger. Udinese is by far the toughest tie we've ever had at this stage and with the shape we're in at the moment every fixture is looking like a slog.

To be honest the tie is more important than Liverpool or United.

[Niall_Quinn]

And this is precisely why I want us to go out of CL.

Since we know God = not real, nobody can help AW if we go out! WIN! :dance:

We're not winning the CL, that's for sure. But do you really want to sit through the winter and watch the top teams in Europe (plus City) slugging it out while we sit on the sidelines (or worse, play in the Europa League)? I don't.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If we go out against Udinese we'd be in the Europa League guranteed. I'd rather not have to watch us on Channel 5 really.

[Niall_Quinn]

If we go out against Udinese we'd be in the Europa League guranteed. I'd rather not have to watch us on Channel 5 really.

They can't make us play in the Europa League can they? Surely it's not compulsory?

[Letters]

They can't make us play in the Europa League can they? Surely it's not compulsory?

Maybe PHW would write us a note.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

They can't make us play in the Europa League can they? Surely it's not compulsory?

Afraid so. Although we'd probably end up having a Copenhagen 2000 moment again. :(

[Marc Overmars]

Maybe PHW would write us a note.

He'd have to to avoid the embarrassment of a half empty stadium every Thursday night!

Saying that I'm not even sure Udinese is sold out.

[Niall_Quinn]

I just hope we don't sell any decent players to Udinese before tomorrow. Chamakh would be fine though.

[fakeyank]

We're not winning the CL, that's for sure. But do you really want to sit through the winter and watch the top teams in Europe (plus City) slugging it out while we sit on the sidelines (or worse, play in the Europa League)? I don't.

I'd rather watch other top teams playing CL than see us get annihilated by another top team. I'd rather our fragile boys rest as much as possible for the 4th place battle that we will likely face. Also, we need to focus on the CC challenge this year.. looks the most likely destination for our next trophy.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd rather watch other top teams playing CL than see us get annihilated by another top team. I'd rather our fragile boys rest as much as possible for the 4th place battle that we will likely face. Also, we need to focus on the CC challenge this year.. looks the most likely destination for our next trophy.

Right....so you don't want us to qualify for the CL this season so that we can concentrate on finishing 4th and therefore qualify for the CL next season?

....OK.

[GP]

Right....so you don't want us to qualify for the CL this season so that we can concentrate on finishing 4th and therefore qualify for the CL next season?

....OK.

:haha:

[Master Splinter]

Right....so you don't want us to qualify for the CL this season so that we can concentrate on finishing 4th and therefore qualify for the CL next season?

....OK.

:haha:

[Boss]

Right....so you don't want us to qualify for the CL this season so that we can concentrate on finishing 4th and therefore qualify for the CL next season?

....OK.

FakeYank :rose:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I'd rather watch other top teams playing CL than see us get annihilated by another top team. I'd rather our fragile boys rest as much as possible for the 4th place battle that we will likely face. Also, we need to focus on the CC challenge this year.. looks the most likely destination for our next trophy.

No......I would rather see an Arsenal team play the CL......than any other team, pure and simple.........go on to the pitch intending to give it their all (ie the last two seasons against Barca) and if they lose, walk off the pitch with their heads held high, the sound of outr thanks ringing in their ears cos like us they know they left it all on the field.......that is not just in the CL mind, this is what I want from my Arsenal every single game

[Niall_Quinn]

Plus playing in the CL is vital because it's a shop window for next season's transfer window.

[Özim]

They should rename it the "Chumpions League" because it's largely full of chumps like us, teams who just make up the numbers.

[Master Splinter]

They should rename it the "Chumpions League" because it's largely full of chumps like us, teams who just make up the numbers.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/Deadpool77/1097290-i_see_what_you_did_there_su.jpg

[fakeyank]

Right....so you don't want us to qualify for the CL this season so that we can concentrate on finishing 4th and therefore qualify for the CL next season?

....OK.

Exactly! I want the board to see why not buying top quality will only result in us being eliminated and may be.. just may be that will make the board and AW realize that next season with top players, we can actually get through the qualifying and group stages.

[fakeyank]

No......I would rather see an Arsenal team play the CL......than any other team, pure and simple.........go on to the pitch intending to give it their all (ie the last two seasons against Barca) and if they lose, walk off the pitch with their heads held high, the sound of outr thanks ringing in their ears cos like us they know they left it all on the field.......that is not just in the CL mind, this is what I want from my Arsenal every single game

Unfortunately this squad doesnt give their best in all the games! About the games against Barca, we did not show up at all in the second leg last season.. not even a single shot on goal. I understand they are the best team in the world but not one freaking shot!

[Cripps_orig]

I think it would have hurt Wenger. Cesc was the poster boy of Project Youth and the one he was hoping to keep and build many a team round. Now he's gone, the project has failed. Granted, for many of us it didn't need Cesc leaving to realize that it had failed but hopefully Wenger realizes it noW and goes back to becoming the world class manager he once was, the one who ate the likes of Fergie and Mourinho for breakfast instead of what he is now, arguably the worst manager in the premiership.Alas even if he did realize it, I think its too late. We are on the brink of CL elimination and favourites for 6th. It would be a surprise if Wenger was here next season.Wenger :rose:For who he once was and not who he's become

[Japan Shaking All Over]

well I know who my vote for the speech giver at Wengers funeral is going to........take it away Cripps

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think Wenger has had chances to make his team the dominant force in English football and when put to the task he has always faltered and maybe our past view of the man is more rose tinted than based on fact, as far as i am concerned despite his undoubted ability as a scout and developer of talent, he fails badly as a tactician and is far too conservative with transfers to have bought the one or two players he needed down the years that could have won us arguably twice the trophies we have won under him.
His diet and physical regime and psychological enhancement methods were revolutionary when he came to this country but he was one of the first overseas managers in the premiership and was merely enacting what was standard practice on the continent and the reason the spanish, italian and even german league was miles ahead of ours at the time.
His main failing is his inability to pick his side up from setbacks, in 2002 we lose to Everton marking our first premier league defeat in ten months, the hangover continues for a following three games losing them all 2-1, two years later after the controversial 2-0 defeat to Manchester United to end our unbeaten run at 49 games, we have a mini slump where we manage only three wins from the next nine (two of those coming in league cup ties where a reserve side is fielded).
2008 after losing 4-0 to Man United, we win only two of the next 12 games in all competitions.
2011 after losing 2-1 to Birmingham in the league cup final, we win only three games from 15 up to the end of the season (one of those being a home league cup tie against Leyton Orient)
I think the failings have always been present, the prostrate years between 1998 and 2002 where Wenger didn't have the guile or the tactical nous to challenge United's supremacy seem to have been glossed over as if Wenger's deficiencies have only been a recent thing, if anything it's more acceptable now because the squad is not as good now as it was then in terms of quality and physical/mental strength.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Right....so you don't want us to qualify for the CL this season so that we can concentrate on finishing 4th and therefore qualify for the CL next season?

....OK.

:lol:

Fakeyank, lad you have had a shocker today.

[fakeyank]

:lol:

Fakeyank, lad you have had a shocker today.

Exactly! I want the board to see why not buying top quality will only result in us being eliminated and may be.. just may be that will make the board and AW realize that next season with top players, we can actually get through the qualifying and group stages.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Exactly! I want the board to see why not buying top quality will only result in us being eliminated and may be.. just may be that will make the board and AW realize that next season with top players, we can actually get through the qualifying and group stages.

You, Ollie and your fucking 'blessings in disguise'. :doh:

[selassie]

I personally think Wenger is finished, Fabregas & Nasri walking out on the team is the end for him, there's no way back for him now.

His handling of both situations is nothing short of a disgrace, arrogance of the highest order. It's not like we've even got a decent fee for Fabregas, we may aswell have sold him at the start of the window which would have given us a good chance to assess who we could buy to replace him. Saying that will he even spend the money from the Fabregas fee? I've already heard him defiantly stating he won't pay over the odds...we know he won't, that's why he never buys the players we need.

I personally think this season is going to be painful and I sincerely hope it's Arsene's last season, he's just doing more damage than good now IMHO.

I'm tired of Arsene and his flawed policies, just want him gone now, I don't even care who replaces him, i've gone past that stage now, just want to see somebody fresh manage the team with new ideas.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Exactly! I want the board to see why not buying top quality will only result in us being eliminated and may be.. just may be that will make the board and AW realize that next season with top players, we can actually get through the qualifying and group stages.

What makes you think going out the CL this season would even mean us being it it next season. What happens we don't qualify then Aw and the boared won't spend this season, then what happens we finish 5th which top players would come then.

[Marc Overmars]

What makes you think going out the CL this season would even mean us being it it next season. What happens we don't qualify then Aw and the boared won't spend this season, then what happens we finish 5th which top players would ocme then.

Which top players come now?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Which top players come now? Thats what i saying if we finish 5th we son't be signing top Players they won'y want to come.

All i was saying was us going out the CL next week does not mean we'd be back in in next season because we could conentrate on it.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah but we don't attempt to sign top players anyway because we're not prepared to pay the prices, and that's with the CL cash cow. So we won't see much of a change in transfer policy if we finish 5th.

[Justhandguns]

I think the club will find sign new players only if they qualify for the CL in the upcoming qualifying round.
Otherwise, at the end of this season, AW and the board can still boast about how the club's finance is
in good shape and making loads of profit and money (from the sale of players, not from winning major trophies).
These are so predictable in all these years.........:yawn:

[Niall_Quinn]

Which top players come now?

Fabregas said he would always come and watch us when he's in London.