Arsenal's Debt Level

[The Verminator]

Anyone know what this is now? How long before the excuse of having to pay off the stadium can no longer be used? Or indeed prove many people wrong and be the turning point where we do begin to invest heavily once more.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyone know what this is now? How long before the excuse of having to pay off the stadium can no longer be used? Or indeed prove many people wrong and be the turning point where we do begin to invest heavily once more.

Our debt is minus two squidillon quid.

[Niall_Quinn]

Turning point is when Wenger leaves. 2014.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Anyone know what this is now? How long before the excuse of having to pay off the stadium can no longer be used? Or indeed prove many people wrong and be the turning point where we do begin to invest heavily once more.

Dont know what the debt level is, it was down to £125m or so last I heard. Should be all paid off by 2013 I think.

[Niall_Quinn]

Dont know what the debt level is, it was done to £125m or so last I heard. Should be all paid off by 2013 I think.

Yep, £25mill RvP, £60mill Jack plus general profits then it's all gravy, pure profit.

[KSE Comedy Club]

:lol:

Dont forget the £34m for cesc and £25m for nasri, oh and chuck in £11m for bendtner too.

That takes a huge chunk off.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm guessing you are asking about the debt level because you are trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense at all.

[The Verminator]

I'm hoping that once the debt is cleared we will start acting sensibly in transfer windows.

Not likely though is it!

[AKBapologist]

We need better commercial deals. City has one that brings in £40mill a season. The eqivilant deal for arsenal only brings 7mill a year. Granted, city's deal is as corrupt as fuck, but it expains the advantages clubs like united, even with the debt they have, have over us.

[Letters]

I'm guessing you are asking about the debt level because you are trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense at all.

I'm starting to think this is the only explanation.
Wenger's not suddenly this bumbling idiot and if people think that a new manager would come in and spend, spend, spend and everything would be rosy then I'd suggest they're sadly deluded.

[Özim]

Wenger doesn't want to spend, he loves bringing kids through and signing more kids...and with all his words about big spending and finances it's seems pretty clear he's doing it to prove a point.

We don't owe that much so it makes no sense to worry about that debt, it'll be paid off soon enough, we've paid it off far more quickly than expected.

It makes absolutely no sense to neglect the playing side at this stage as success on the pitch brings massive rewards internationally in a financial sense.

[LDG]

Well if our largest shareholder and owner does not want to pay off the debt, then the simple conclusion is that he wants the clubs profits to pay it off first, in order that he can then cream it when it's paid.

Simple logic.

It will of course mean that the pure profit with no debt senario will yield more funds for the playing staff.

The more I think about it, the more I think AW is, to a degree, sacrificing himself in all of this. Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but I think he's part of the plan to rid the club of the stadium debt.

People will laud the next manager when he eventually comes in....but I think the new manager will have it fucking easy compared to AW. And that says something to me.

Of course, that doesn't excuse Mr Wenger of the atrocious decisions he's made tactically and in the transfer market (and by that I mean not buying when we most needed it...not necessarily the players he's bought).

[StamfordBrdige]

I'm starting to think this is the only explanation.
Wenger's not suddenly this bumbling idiot and if people think that a new manager would come in and spend, spend, spend and everything would be rosy then I'd suggest they're sadly deluded.

Entirely incorrect. The tendency for people to keep making excuses for AW is impressive albeit deluded. This is a man who has no qualms spending 12m on some kid from the lower leagues but refuses to pay slightly more for established players.

Once again i wish people would take the time and read the financials. It's really all there. Your stadium repayments are 25m(ish) a year and seeing as you were able to meet those repayments at highbury i'm pretty sure you have no problems meeting them in a stadium that brings in shitloads more money than highbury ever did.

If your club decides to repay the debt in record time at the expense of the team's on-pitch success then they are incredibly stupid. You aren't legally bound to repay the debt in 2years or some such crap. It was a long term repayment deal and while paying it off early might seem like a good idea, it's only a good idea if it's done in a balanced way.

Plus the irony of course that if you did get some fucking quality in, you'd win more stuff which = more money (from TV, UEFA, commercial stuff etc). I mean ManUtd have twice your debt and level of repayments and they seem able to repay their debt + invest in the team + win stuff. So it's bullshit that your debt is the reason you can't do a thing. If that was the case ManUtd would be fundamentally fucked.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Entirely incorrect. The tendency for people to keep making excuses for AW is impressive albeit deluded. This is a man who has no qualms spending 12m on some kid from the lower leagues but refuses to pay slightly more for established players.

Once again i wish people would take the time and read the financials. It's really all there. Your stadium repayments are 25m(ish) a year and seeing as you were able to meet those repayments at highbury i'm pretty sure you have no problems meeting them in a stadium that brings in shitloads more money than highbury ever did.

If your club decides to repay the debt in record time at the expense of the team's on-pitch success then they are incredibly stupid. You aren't legally bound to repay the debt in 2years or some such crap. It was a long term repayment deal and while paying it off early might seem like a good idea, it's only a good idea if it's done in a balanced way.

Plus the irony of course that if you did get some fucking quality in, you'd win more stuff which = more money (from TV, UEFA, commercial stuff etc). I mean ManUtd have twice your debt and level of repayments and they seem able to repay their debt + invest in the team + win stuff. So it's bullshit that your debt is the reason you can't do a thing. If that was the case ManUtd would be fundamentally fucked.

:gp:

[Grebbo]

Entirely incorrect. The tendency for people to keep making excuses for AW is impressive albeit deluded. This is a man who has no qualms spending 12m on some kid from the lower leagues but refuses to pay slightly more for established players.

Once again i wish people would take the time and read the financials. It's really all there. Your stadium repayments are 25m(ish) a year and seeing as you were able to meet those repayments at highbury i'm pretty sure you have no problems meeting them in a stadium that brings in shitloads more money than highbury ever did.

If your club decides to repay the debt in record time at the expense of the team's on-pitch success then they are incredibly stupid. You aren't legally bound to repay the debt in 2years or some such crap. It was a long term repayment deal and while paying it off early might seem like a good idea, it's only a good idea if it's done in a balanced way.

Plus the irony of course that if you did get some fucking quality in, you'd win more stuff which = more money (from TV, UEFA, commercial stuff etc). I mean ManUtd have twice your debt and level of repayments and they seem able to repay their debt + invest in the team + win stuff. So it's bullshit that your debt is the reason you can't do a thing. If that was the case ManUtd would be fundamentally fucked.

Yep, fans still can't seem to bring themselves to realise that Wenger has created an almighty mess all by himself.

We just spent £15m on a League One 17yr old FFS. Gary Cahill's buyout clause is £17m. Yet it's still the board's fault.

Wake up!!

We're about to get £50m from Nasri and Cesc sales!!

[Letters]

You're saying the board have NO say in Wenger's transfer dealings or his budget for them?

[Fats]

good post stamford, it actually makes me laugh when people say Wenger is not stupid but from the evidanc\e of the last few seasons he so clearly is. His record of mistakes on and off the pitch are becoming legend. The guy is deluded and so are his supporters. He is indefensible when you look at the facts. All we hear are poor excuses which only the stupid take any note of.

Another manager of any quality could put this right.

Wenger is a great coach but a terrible terrible manger

[Grebbo]

You're saying the board have NO say in Wenger's transfer dealings or his budget for them?

They would have told him Nasri is being sold, that's just common sense.
They would never tell him who to buy and who to sell (other than Nasri)
They give him a budget, sure. Wenger said two days ago he can spend £30m, £40m on a player but he can't find the quality.

Do you seriously think Wenger would say such a thing if he doesn't have money to spend? Seriously?

Of course not.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You're saying the board have NO say in Wenger's transfer dealings or his budget for them?

:gp: People on here are biased by Wenger hate, so anything he does will be critisised. even if he does bring it on his self.

I love how they all think he has the bored wrapped around his finger, t hen think the boared will sack him too.

[StamfordBrdige]

You're saying the board have NO say in Wenger's transfer dealings or his budget for them?

I'm saying it's up to AW to get the players in. If AW wanted to spend 70m on one player i'm sure the board would tell him to go fuck himself (and rightly so). Ashley young cost ManUtd 17m. For a bit more than you paid for some kid from league one you could have got ashley young (for example).

I'm pretty sure a board that sanctioned the purchase of some kid for would see the logic in paying a bit more for an established international PL experienced player. Unless you are suggesting otherwise.

You got rid of Clichy and are relying on Gibbs + some other random kid. Meanwhile enrique gets signed by Liverpool for 6m. You really telling me your club can't pay 6m for a LB.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

They would have told him Nasri is being sold, that's just common sense.
They would never tell him who to buy and who to sell (other than Nasri)
They give him a budget, sure. Wenger said two days ago he can spend £30m, £40m on a player but he can't find the quality.

Do you seriously think Wenger would say such a thing if he doesn't have money to spend? Seriously?

Of course not.

How do you know they gaveh him a budget was you there at the time? or are you believing what the sun tells you

So you think Wenger wanted to Sell Nasri then, no chance all down to the boared, who would never let him go for free.

[StamfordBrdige]

:GP: People on here are biased by Wenger hate, so anything he does will be critisised. even if he does bring it on his self.

I love how they all think he has the bored wrapped around his finger, t hen think the boared will sack him too.

I know of no other case where a manager has been consulted on the appointment of a CEO. AW clearly has major pull in the club hierarchy. You speak as if this is Real Madrid where the manager is just a puppet or something. This isn't real madrid we're talking about, this is a PL club and in most PL clubs the manager is the one who decides which players get signed (unless buying said player will bankrupt the club).

I'm pretty sure buying enrique wouldn't have bankrupted arsenal.

[Grebbo]

How do you know they gaveh him a budget was you there at the time? or are you believing what the sun tells you

So you think Wenger wanted to Sell Nasri then, no chance all down to the boared, who would never let him go for free.

I just told you about Nasri.

We are making massive profits and paying tax on these profits (the only club in the Prem who is paying tax).

So you think the board just wants the money to sit there even though they don't take dividends (yet)?

In that case we are not a football club we are a savings account (for Stan) and PHW and Wenger should re-sign and tell us the truth. Instead Wenger will end up dying of a heart attack with the amount of pressure that's only going to increase.

[Grebbo]

How do you know they gaveh him a budget was you there at the time? or are you believing what the sun tells you

So you think Wenger wanted to Sell Nasri then, no chance all down to the boared, who would never let him go for free.

And in case you forget Wenger just spunked £15m on a 17yr old League One player!!

[StamfordBrdige]

How do you know they gaveh him a budget was you there at the time? or are you believing what the sun tells you

So you think Wenger wanted to Sell Nasri then, no chance all down to the boared, who would never let him go for free.

Selling Nasri is common sense. Letting him run down his contract would be seriously daft. Sell the dude, get the money and buy some fucking quality players with it. What's silly is letting it drag on this far when they should have got rid of him a long time ago and used the money to get replacements in.

[Özim]

You're saying the board have NO say in Wenger's transfer dealings or his budget for them?
They don't tell him who to buy that's for sure.

Moroever if they sold players left right and centre without his approval I'm pretty sure he wouldn't stay on as he would see it as intefering in team affairs.

He couldn't persuade Cesc to stay, just like he can't persuade Nasri to sign a new contract and stay.

[Özim]

And in case you forget Wenger just spunked £15m on a 17yr old League One player!!
I guess the board must have made him do that too!

[Boss]

And in case you forget Wenger just spunked £15m on a 17yr old League One player!!

Which is why any talk Wenger makes about being unable to afford players and the market being overpriced is complete garbage.

You can't complain about a young English top quality CB being overpriced at 17M, or a Spanish first team player for a top four side being overpriced at 14M, or a PL regular 1st choice GK being overpriced at 4M and then spend 15M on a 17 year old and expect people not to call you absolutely fucking insane.

15M on Oxlade-Chamberlain is far more overpriced than 38M on Aguero.

[Fats]

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/arsenal-board-orders-wenger-spend-cesc-nasri-cash-quality-signings-1816341

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I just told you about Nasri.

We are making massive profits and paying tax on these profits (the only club in the Prem who is paying tax).

So you think the board just wants the money to sit there even though they don't take dividends (yet)?

In that case we are not a football club we are a savings account (for Stan) and PHW and Wenger should re-sign and tell us the truth. Instead Wenger will end up dying of a heart attack with the amount of pressure that's only going to increase.

Yep he is under pressure and coult lead to this if he ain'r careful tbh, Could not tell you what the boared wants to do this days they all seem to spout the same shite anyway.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I guess the board must have made him do that too!

well they not against it are they

[Fats]

Wenger says he will only buy players that are better than the ones we already have.

So many names you could post in here that are simply crap and Wenger HAS indeed bought them.

The bloke is an incompetant liar no two ways about it.

[Özim]

well they not against it are they
So what? He chooses who he signs it's pretty clear, I'm sure he has input on who is sold too.

That's the whole point, he builds the team according to his view of what it should be, the board don't stop him doing that, your comment in fact proves my point further.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

So what? He chooses who he signs it's pretty clear, I'm sure he has input on who is sold too.

That's the whole point, he builds the team according to his view of what it should be, the board don't stop him doing that, your comment in fact proves my point further.

So you think he wanted Fabregas and Nasri gone and the team left like that? And if AW has all this power over the board you moan about, then no point you crying he should be sacked because its not going to happen as he is that powerful.

[StamfordBrdige]

So you think he wanted Fabregas and Nasri gone and the team left like that? And if AW has all this power over the board you moan about, then no point you crying he should be sacked because its not going to happen as he is that powerful.

Cesc & Nasri wanted to leave. That has fuck all to do with the board or AW or anyone else. It's not up to the board if the player wants to go now is it? If you want to leave your job then you want to leave your job cos you as an individual have made the choice.

I'm sure AW & the board would prefer it if they had both stayed but the players made a decision and you could drag it out and fuck up the dressing room atmosphere or you try to work it to your advantage. Which they have as they stand to make about 50m from the whole thing.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Entirely incorrect. The tendency for people to keep making excuses for AW is impressive albeit deluded. This is a man who has no qualms spending 12m on some kid from the lower leagues but refuses to pay slightly more for established players.

Once again i wish people would take the time and read the financials. It's really all there. Your stadium repayments are 25m(ish) a year and seeing as you were able to meet those repayments at highbury i'm pretty sure you have no problems meeting them in a stadium that brings in shitloads more money than highbury ever did.

If your club decides to repay the debt in record time at the expense of the team's on-pitch success then they are incredibly stupid. You aren't legally bound to repay the debt in 2years or some such crap. It was a long term repayment deal and while paying it off early might seem like a good idea, it's only a good idea if it's done in a balanced way.

Plus the irony of course that if you did get some fucking quality in, you'd win more stuff which = more money (from TV, UEFA, commercial stuff etc). I mean ManUtd have twice your debt and level of repayments and they seem able to repay their debt + invest in the team + win stuff. So it's bullshit that your debt is the reason you can't do a thing. If that was the case ManUtd would be fundamentally fucked.

You really need to change the record and stop reiterating the same blanket statements. Many do read the financials, some I dare say have a much better understanding of it than you. But, and this is the crux here, many, myself included are trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense. We are speculating on what is motivating the actions of Wenger, the Board and the Owners along with discussing the dynamics between those parties. Those making excuses for Wenger are few and far between, and that you apparently fail to understand this as displayed in your posts, leads me to question your capacity to comprehend anything you read.

[StamfordBrdige]

You really need to change the record and stop reiterating the same blanket statements. Many do read the financials, some I dare say have a much better understanding of it than you. But, and this is the crux here, many, myself included are trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense. We are speculating on what is motivating the actions of Wenger, the Board and the Owners along with discussing the dynamics between those parties. Those making excuses for Wenger are few and far between, and that you apparently fail to understand this as displayed in your posts, leads me to question your capacity to comprehend anything you read.

:p

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol: I see you understood that!

[StamfordBrdige]

You really need to change the record and stop reiterating the same blanket statements. Many do read the financials, some I dare say have a much better understanding of it than you. But, and this is the crux here, many, myself included are trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense. We are speculating on what is motivating the actions of Wenger, the Board and the Owners along with discussing the dynamics between those parties. Those making excuses for Wenger are few and far between, and that you apparently fail to understand this as displayed in your posts, leads me to question your capacity to comprehend anything you read.

On a more serious note, what's your take on it?

[StamfordBrdige]

:lol: I see you understood that!

I'm good like that.

[Özim]

So you think he wanted Fabregas and Nasri gone and the team left like that? And if AW has all this power over the board you moan about, then no point you crying he should be sacked because its not going to happen as he is that powerful.
No they wanted to leave because he couldn't convince them to stay, he doesn't believe in holding onto players against their will (fair enough as long as he replaces them), that's nothing to do with the board.

I'll complain because I'm not happy, just because the board are money grabbing tw*ts doesn't change the fact he shouldn't be here, until things change I won't alter my stance.

[Xhaka Can’t]

On a more serious note, what's your take on it?


On a more serious note, what's your take on it?

My take on it is that even though we have failed by a considerable margin to maximise commercial revenue, our debt is entirely manageable and would still have been so had the repayment profile not been accelerated to the extent that it has. The debt, the accelerated repayments, and the poor commercial deals in my view have to be linked to a Board and Management team with an overly conservative and risk averse mindset. I think there has, since the Stadium Project's inception (a sign of a healthy risk appetite looking at the upside of risk) been a shift to becoming increasingly risk averse and this has resulted in bad long term deals to get commercial revenue in as quickly as possible, which may have been a good idea at the time - and a requirement of creditors.

I've little doubt that the pressures, that existed towards the latter stages of the Stadium project, coupled with the onset of of the recssion and the short term collapse in the London property market are still influencing the Board's risk appetite - when they shouldn't. We've moved on from that, so I'm stuggling to understand why we still behave the way we do (as if it is 2008 and it is all going wrong). I also do not understand the actions of the Manager that will spend £15m on prospects, but not £14m on proven talent. I also struggle to understand what are the dynamics between owners, Board and management because they don't seem to align with any model I am familiar with.

That is why I made my initial comment on the OP trying to make sense of things that simply don't make sense.

[LDG]

Did Stamford deliberately spell "bridge" incorrectly in his username? :unsure:

[Cripps_orig]

Did Stamford deliberately spell "bridge" incorrectly in his username? :unsure:

Flavs is his hero

[Niall_Quinn]

Well if our largest shareholder and owner does not want to pay off the debt, then the simple conclusion is that he wants the clubs profits to pay it off first, in order that he can then cream it when it's paid.

Simple logic.

It will of course mean that the pure profit with no debt senario will yield more funds for the playing staff.

The more I think about it, the more I think AW is, to a degree, sacrificing himself in all of this. Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but I think he's part of the plan to rid the club of the stadium debt.

People will laud the next manager when he eventually comes in....but I think the new manager will have it fucking easy compared to AW. And that says something to me.

Of course, that doesn't excuse Mr Wenger of the atrocious decisions he's made tactically and in the transfer market (and by that I mean not buying when we most needed it...not necessarily the players he's bought).

Yep, you're reading it like I am. Wenger is a shield for the greedy bastards hiding behind him. It could be a lot worse than we imagine as well, worse to such a degree that the nonsensical actions of Wenger actually start to make sense when applied to the restrictions that have been placed upon him by the human/ maggot hybrids in the boardroom. Wenger's crazy claims of players staying when they were walking out the door behind him was surely some shot at the board? Like yourself, I don't forgive Wenger his many sins born out of stubbornness and blind faith in the non-performing players we have at the club, but I do think this horrible board is getting a very easy ride considering what they have said and what they have/ haven't done. I mean what have we actually heard from any of these cunts? In fighting and telling the fans to shut it and be patient, that's about all they've decided to explain having banked millions as the club goes down the shitter.

[Niall_Quinn]

Entirely incorrect. The tendency for people to keep making excuses for AW is impressive albeit deluded. This is a man who has no qualms spending 12m on some kid from the lower leagues but refuses to pay slightly more for established players.

Once again i wish people would take the time and read the financials. It's really all there. Your stadium repayments are 25m(ish) a year and seeing as you were able to meet those repayments at highbury i'm pretty sure you have no problems meeting them in a stadium that brings in shitloads more money than highbury ever did.

If your club decides to repay the debt in record time at the expense of the team's on-pitch success then they are incredibly stupid. You aren't legally bound to repay the debt in 2years or some such crap. It was a long term repayment deal and while paying it off early might seem like a good idea, it's only a good idea if it's done in a balanced way.

Plus the irony of course that if you did get some fucking quality in, you'd win more stuff which = more money (from TV, UEFA, commercial stuff etc). I mean ManUtd have twice your debt and level of repayments and they seem able to repay their debt + invest in the team + win stuff. So it's bullshit that your debt is the reason you can't do a thing. If that was the case ManUtd would be fundamentally fucked.

None of the people in charge are stupid. They will know precisely what they are doing in financial terms. This is why I believe the club is being looted before our eyes. Examining what we know, the board and Wenger propose the stadium move claiming it is a way for the club to maintain itself at the top of the game. The fans are on board because of course they believed "top of the game" implied titles and trophies and an entertaining team. Little did we know.

So the board takes on the debt (I heard it was a spectacularly good deal), flogs off Highbury, sends the ticket prices through the roof, starts flogging the players and the cash is pouring in. They even boast about it, indeed Arsenal is at the top of the game but only in terms of cash in the bank. In football terms we are falling off a cliff. Then along comes Kroenke, pays all the boardroom fuckers a fat wedge, keeps them on in their jobs and now we have even less signings, the ticket prices are even higher, the club is falling faster. Looks to me like the Old Etonians have made their loot and now Stand wants his. They are using the club as the vehicle to stuff their already stuffed pockets. Stand will then flog a debt free club onto the next bunch (Usmanov in the wings?) and the exploitation will continue with Wenger having (hopefully) found enough youngsters than can keep us competitive in their short Arsenal careers before being sold on at large profit.

If you think about it, provided there are enough gullible fans and the quality of the entertainment is kept high in the corporate boxes (if not on the pitch), this model could actually work.

And yes of course I am speculating, but what I'm saying fits what we know, any other explanation makes the board and Wenger look like total loons and I doubt very much they are that.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm saying it's up to AW to get the players in. If AW wanted to spend 70m on one player i'm sure the board would tell him to go fuck himself (and rightly so). Ashley young cost ManUtd 17m. For a bit more than you paid for some kid from league one you could have got ashley young (for example).

I'm pretty sure a board that sanctioned the purchase of some kid for would see the logic in paying a bit more for an established international PL experienced player. Unless you are suggesting otherwise.

You got rid of Clichy and are relying on Gibbs + some other random kid. Meanwhile enrique gets signed by Liverpool for 6m. You really telling me your club can't pay 6m for a LB.

No we can't afford the £6mill, because as Wenger says, it would kill Gibbs. Kill Gibbs in what respect is the question? I propose it would be his transfer fee out. If Arsenal can stay in Europe and near the top of the league, if Gibbs can stay fit and get a few England caps, how much will he be worth when following Cole and then Clichy out the door? I'm not saying it's a fact, but it does look a bit like a conveyor belt. And then there's all those "tricky" midfielders we buy - and then sell. We're overloaded with them, almost like it's a breeding ground. So the question is, are we a football club or a feeder club? Is this why we won't stump up the money for a player like Parker who could do a job for us? Parker would represent wages and no sell-on fee. But some relatively unknown kid from Europe that could be polished up and flogged to Barca in a couple of years, well there's profit in that.

[Ironing]

Enrique is shite, hence why Liverpool bought him, and hence why he only cost 6m

[Niall_Quinn]

My take on it is that even though we have failed by a considerable margin to maximise commercial revenue, our debt is entirely manageable and would still have been so had the repayment profile not been accelerated to the extent that it has. The debt, the accelerated repayments, and the poor commercial deals in my view have to be linked to a Board and Management team with an overly conservative and risk averse mindset. I think there has, since the Stadium Project's inception (a sign of a healthy risk appetite looking at the upside of risk) been a shift to becoming increasingly risk averse and this has resulted in bad long term deals to get commercial revenue in as quickly as possible, which may have been a good idea at the time - and a requirement of creditors.

I've little doubt that the pressures, that existed towards the latter stages of the Stadium project, coupled with the onset of of the recssion and the short term collapse in the London property market are still influencing the Board's risk appetite - when they shouldn't. We've moved on from that, so I'm stuggling to understand why we still behave the way we do (as if it is 2008 and it is all going wrong). I also do not understand the actions of the Manager that will spend £15m on prospects, but not £14m on proven talent. I also struggle to understand what are the dynamics between owners, Board and management because they don't seem to align with any model I am familiar with.

That is why I made my initial comment on the OP trying to make sense of things that simply don't make sense.

In other words, the board are cunts.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger has chosen to walk this path. From what I've read about his career in Monaco, he led them down the same route. He started off well with Monaco and won the league, went on to win the league cup, but that was it. He was there from 1987 - 1995 and won two trophies.

It's really similar to how his career is ending here. That sort of thing is hard to ignore.

[Alan B'stard]

gross debt, basically the total size of the two bond issues is something like 250 million quid. no chance to pay that back early either since its not feasible to buy those bonds back on the open market. one those bonds is 50 millionish and about 10 years to term, and the other is much longer. 25 years maybe?

In practice, the club doennt pay off debt early, but rather just sticks it in the bank and lets the interest it earns count towards the payments due on the bonds.

SO taken this way, the net debt was something like 140million in the last accounts if memory serves.

[Alan B'stard]

also anyone thinking arsenal is now a financial powerhouse is kidding themselves.

we might currently be generating profits that compare well with utd's but most of our profits come from property development or flogging players. ie not from persuading sponsors to back our success on the pitch or from selling merchandise to malaysians.

if you strip all that out, we are a breakeven / lossmaking football club tacked onto a property speculation vehicle.