"Currants Bw..."

[IBK]

I agree that back in the 80s it would have been different but mental health was almost a taboo subject back then.

Today its very different. Harry & William very publicly launched a mental health campaign a few years ago and ran a charity for it. If it ever came out (well no longer an if) i suspect it would have done huge damage to their efforts with their charity etc.

Meghan said she went to HR about it which seems odd to me as a first port of call rather than one of the doctors working at the palace etc but given all we know about HR departments these days, i again struggle to believe they would reject it or hush it up. We get countless emails from work HR about our mental health in lockdown. Also didnt Harry & William both have therapy after their mother died? I’m sure i read that before but could be wrong.

Some interesting points there. The problem really is that mental health is so subjective. Some people function OK in situations where others disintegrate. Also, some people will blame others for their negative feelings when often they would be better looking at themselves, while others will take ownership of their feelings and try to address these. It is clear that Meghan suffered from being in what must be a very restrictive and demanding situation as a Royal, and I don't think many clear-thinking people would criticise her for wanting out of it. I also think that she (along with a whole line of other people in a similar situation) was mistreated by the press. But for me she is looking to blame the Royal family for a status quo that comes with the institution that it is (and that she chose to join) rather than anything actively done by them to abuse her. I may be wrong of course, but noone really knows the truth either way.

[Letters]

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/03/09/this-message-request-trolling-nigel-farage-cameo-simply-perfect

:haha:

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56357796

Honestly, I tire of this argument.

"Why should women have to modify their behaviour? Stop victim blaming! Stop telling women they can't go out on their own and start telling men they shouldn't attack women!"

See. The thing is, men ARE told they shouldn't attack women. There are loads of campaigns about this sort of thing.
But some men are awful people and men are, statistically, more prone to violence than women. And they are (again, statistically, not me!) generally stronger than women. So yeah, some women are going to get attacked. They shouldn't, obviously, but telling women to take sensible precautions is...well, sensible.

If I got burgled then while people were tutting sympathetically I imagine the police and the insurance company's first question would be whether I left the door wide open. If I did then will the insurance pay out? Will it balls. Not because the insurance company are "victim blaming", and yes it would be nice if we lived in a world where we could all go out without locking the doors and feel sure that no-one would take stuff, but unfortunately we don't live in that world.

[Marc Overmars]

Women should obviously be able to dress and behave in any way they’re comfortable with, without having to worry about the potential for consequences. However the awareness is already there and the majority of men are respectful and chivalrous for it. Unfortunately scumbags exist and it doesn’t really matter what precautionary measures are taken, there will always be a case of wrong place, wrong time somewhere.

Even as a guy I’ve walked late at night through some unsavoury places and had to have my guard up.

[Letters]

Unfortunately scumbags exist
Right. And there are ways people (not just women, actually) can act which put themselves in more or less danger of becoming victims of them.
Yes, people shouldn't have to take precautions, but I shouldn't have to lock my door.
Just saying "well tell men not to attack women" is stupid, it's like saying "don't tell me to lock my door, tell people not to steal".
People are told that but...well, yeah, scumbags exist.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Women should obviously be able to dress and behave in any way they’re comfortable with, without having to worry about the potential for consequences. However the awareness is already there and the majority of men are respectful and chivalrous for it. Unfortunately scumbags exist and it doesn’t really matter what precautionary measures are taken, there will always be a case of wrong place, wrong time somewhere.

Even as a guy I’ve walked late at night through some unsavoury places and had to have my guard up.

I think what makes it worse in this particular case is that she seemed to take all sensible precautionary measures such as walking in a lit street, on phone to boyfriend, wearing bright clothing etc etc.

However, the accused officer allegedly showed her his warrant card which then convinced her to get into his car or at least gave him the opportunity to then attack her. You can take all the safety measures you want but if someone comes up to with a genuine warrant card (and lets face it, this would have been if he used his own) then I suspect 99 times out of a 100 anyone would listen to the police officer. Only doubt might be if he was in plain clothes but even so, you’d still expect the police to be on your side.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah it is awful but as I said, wrong place, wrong time. Men don’t now need to be told how a woman should be treated and be made aware of the difficulties they go through, because men already know. The people who do these things are not men, they’re just scum of the earth.

[Letters]

However, the accused officer allegedly showed her his warrant card which then convinced her to get into his car or at least gave him the opportunity to then attack her. You can take all the safety measures you want but if someone comes up to with a genuine warrant card (and lets face it, this would have been if he used his own) then I suspect 99 times out of a 100 anyone would listen to the police officer. Only doubt might be if he was in plain clothes but even so, you’d still expect the police to be on your side.
I don't know how this can be known, presumably there were no witnesses. Although given that he's been arrested maybe there was CCTV or something?
But yeah, sounds like there was nothing she could have reasonably done. But that doesn't mean that women shouldn't take sensible precautions.
Just saying "Hey, men! Stop attacking women!" is not really a solution.

[GP]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56331950?at_custom2=twitter&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=9F4F27BE-828E-11EB-9E80-D54A16F31EAE&at_medium=custom7&at_custom3=%40BBCBreaking

Oof

[Letters]

"a head injury he suffered while in custody."

Probably an accident.

[GP]

Stabbed himself in the back 17 times.

[Ollie the Optimist]

So some Green Party Peer said in the House of Lords she would back a curfew for all men from 6pm in the evening and now the first minister of wales has said something similar.

What do these idiots hope to achieve here? There will be a debate on how to make the streets safe for women, thats fair enough but coming out with ideas like this which are so moronic, it will just polarise the debate and lead to nothing.

[Letters]

What are you actually supposed to do about the fact that men are statistically stronger than women and more aggressive.
There's a type of feminism which annoys me because it pretends that men and women are the same. They just aren't.
Most violent crimes are committed by men. And, actually, men are more often the victims too.

Yesterday this was said in parliament:

"If a man was killed every 3 days there would be investigations at every level of society" - Dawn Butler

Actually, Dawn, it's more than once a day for men:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288184/homicide-victim-suspect-relationship-in-england-and-wales-by-gender/

So...I'm not denying there's a problem but what are you actually supposed to do about it?

[IBK]

What are you actually supposed to do about the fact that men are statistically stronger than women and more aggressive.
There's a type of feminism which annoys me because it pretends that men and women are the same. They just aren't.
Most violent crimes are committed by men. And, actually, men are more often the victims too.

Yesterday this was said in parliament:

"If a man was killed every 3 days there would be investigations at every level of society" - Dawn Butler

Actually, Dawn, it's more than once a day for men:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288184/homicide-victim-suspect-relationship-in-england-and-wales-by-gender/

So...I'm not denying there's a problem but what are you actually supposed to do about it?

:gp:

[Marc Overmars]

So some Green Party Peer said in the House of Lords she would back a curfew for all men from 6pm in the evening and now the first minister of wales has said something similar.

What do these idiots hope to achieve here? There will be a debate on how to make the streets safe for women, thats fair enough but coming out with ideas like this which are so moronic, it will just polarise the debate and lead to nothing.

That is possibly one of the most pathetic things I’ve ever heard.

[Mac76]

That curfew idea does sound ridiculous but still, in general I think some people on this board need to take a look at themselves when it comes to attitudes to women.

Somewhere in a thread there was talk about why not many people are here, Letters made a good point about how many people use message boards these days, but still there’s no way a woman would feel remotely welcome here – it’s not my board so if that’s ok with you and you prefer it as substitute for a chat between blokes down the pub then that’s fine, but it’s nevertheless a fact, whereas when I could get in to Arsenal Mania that was a clearly far more open (and dare I say popular) forum in those terms.

There is some perfectly acceptable humour here which tbh we know women replicate etc. when talking generically about men, but NQ has posted some completely vile stuff about women which is actually quite concerning, and I’ve seen other posts which IMO stray into very negative stereotyping. I can't remember her name but that TV celebrity who committed suicide was a really good example, there were some pretty dismissive comments on here which were dissappointing from what seem like a bunch of generally decent people.

Believe me I’ve very little time for the whole gender equally argument when it strays into self-identification etc (which is total BS) and tbf there are some quite vocal women who agree with the basic point that there are basic physical differences in terms of physical size etc. which it's silly to ignore when it comes to women doing certain jobs etc, but at the same time we need to be careful to recognise that men don’t come from a background of centuries of degradation, exploitation and suppression whereas women do.

It saddens me what while we live in what should be a relatively safe area (although only ‘safe’ in London terms), my wife wouldn’t want to take a walk through the streets at night under normal circumstances and every time anyone says something derogatory about women it adds to that element in society.

Anyway them’s me thoughts on this…

[Letters]

So, I asked above what we're supposed to do about all this.
And I think some of what you're saying Mac is stuff we can do.
This is, primarily, a football board. That means it's going to be fairly male dominated and that means "locker room talk" is a bit more likely.
On this page:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14&page=420

Both of us have said things which I probably wouldn't say at church. It's a kinda laddish humour which I've always thought fairly harmless in a certain context but is it part of the problem? I mean, I'm not going out attacking women. But does it add to a culture which makes it more likely?

[Mac76]

So, I asked above what we're supposed to do about all this.
And I think some of what you're saying Mac is stuff we can do.
This is, primarily, a football board. That means it's going to be fairly male dominated and that means "locker room talk" is a bit more likely.
On this page:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14&page=420

Both of us have said things which I probably wouldn't say at church. It's a kinda laddish humour which I've always thought fairly harmless in a certain context but is it part of the problem? I mean, I'm not going out attacking women. But does it add to a culture which makes it more likely?

all fair Letters and I’m not trying to take the moral high ground over people here, I like this board and it's really cheered me up especially during lockdown as I think I’ve said elsewhere.

And yes the example you give is exactly what I think you’d catch women saying amongst themselves too.

as I said I get more concerned when I see some of the reactions to things like that celebrity killing herself - does it directly cause women to get attacked in the street? well it's that excuse that the tabloids use all the time when they use all kinds of stereotypes and hate speech then claim it's only words and they never actually TOLD anyone to harass certain individuals or types of people did they... ? It's a question of which side you want to be on, which wolf you feed etc...

As for the board being all-male, all I can do is repeat that Arsenal Mania has a much more mixed set of contributors, again no biggie in itself but it proves that talking about football isn’t itself something which necessarily precludes women from joining in the conversation

[Letters]

As for the board being all-male, all I can do is repeat that Arsenal Mania has a much more mixed set of contributors, again no biggie in itself but it proves that talking about football isn’t itself something which necessarily precludes women from joining in the conversation

I realised that you're a relatively recent "signing", back in the day there were a fair number of women on here.
Over time people have drifted off which includes all the women so yeah, it's a bit of a sausage fest now.
I actually quite like the fact that I can talk on here in a way which I wouldn't elsewhere, it's quite a useful place to vent at times.
Hard to know where the line is though.

My worry with the "Stop telling women to be careful, tell men to stop attacking women!" attitude is that it could stop women getting or following sensible advice about safety. And yes, it would be nice if we lived in a world where they didn't have to. It would be nice if I didn't have to lock my door when I go out. But we live in the real world where these things are necessary. Getting men to think about how they behave and their attitudes is also useful, but I suspect the sort of men who will heed that aren't the kind of men who go around attacking women anyway.

[Mac76]

I actually quite like the fact that I can talk on here in a way which I wouldn't elsewhere, it's quite a useful place to vent at times.
Hard to know where the line is though.
.

yes, agreed and i miss the times after the match when i was in the pub with a bunch of guys and we could have a laugh and not mind our language etc, no doubt about that. Oh well, next season hopefully...

[Niall_Quinn]

That curfew idea does sound ridiculous but still, in general I think some people on this board need to take a look at themselves when it comes to attitudes to women.

Somewhere in a thread there was talk about why not many people are here, Letters made a good point about how many people use message boards these days, but still there’s no way a woman would feel remotely welcome here – it’s not my board so if that’s ok with you and you prefer it as substitute for a chat between blokes down the pub then that’s fine, but it’s nevertheless a fact, whereas when I could get in to Arsenal Mania that was a clearly far more open (and dare I say popular) forum in those terms.

There is some perfectly acceptable humour here which tbh we know women replicate etc. when talking generically about men, but NQ has posted some completely vile stuff about women which is actually quite concerning, and I’ve seen other posts which IMO stray into very negative stereotyping. I can't remember her name but that TV celebrity who committed suicide was a really good example, there were some pretty dismissive comments on here which were dissappointing from what seem like a bunch of generally decent people.

Believe me I’ve very little time for the whole gender equally argument when it strays into self-identification etc (which is total BS) and tbf there are some quite vocal women who agree with the basic point that there are basic physical differences in terms of physical size etc. which it's silly to ignore when it comes to women doing certain jobs etc, but at the same time we need to be careful to recognise that men don’t come from a background of centuries of degradation, exploitation and suppression whereas women do.

It saddens me what while we live in what should be a relatively safe area (although only ‘safe’ in London terms), my wife wouldn’t want to take a walk through the streets at night under normal circumstances and every time anyone says something derogatory about women it adds to that element in society.

Anyway them’s me thoughts on this…

We should make the whole place a safe space - because we don't have nearly enough of those already. And we could have some sort of cancel culture system that gets rid of anyone who says anything that maybe might, possibly be offensive, either now or at some time in the future when things are even more insane.

That would definitely see the engagement skyrocket.

Or... people who don't want to read stuff that might offend them COULD refrain from opening their web browser, instead of trying to impose their illness on everyone else.

[Mac76]

instead of trying to impose their illness on everyone else.

ever thought of taking your own advice?

[Niall_Quinn]

ever thought of taking your own advice?

You don't get it at all do you?

I am not dragging you to your laptop and forcing you to read my posts. Read them if you want. Don't read them. The choice is yours, as it should be.

You, on the other hand, advocate people not being able to speak at all because YOU - a single individual - don't like what you CHOOSE to read.

I DO take my own advice by advocating liberty.

[Mac76]

i wasn't telling people what to say, just making some comments on what i see here (just like you are now) - there's a difference

[Niall_Quinn]

i wasn't telling people what to say, just making some comments on what i see here (just like you are now) - there's a difference

Playing innocent now? You called me out directly, in a thread I hadn't engaged in at all. And then proceeded to lecture on what was "perfectly acceptable" and what, in your rather sheepish opinion, is not. So I rightly ridiculed you. You then advised I take my own advice, to which I confirmed that's precisely what I'm doing.

That's what actually happened, along with you making the other comments you mention above. Just thought I'd fill in the bits you missed out.

[Mac76]

sheepish? you mean i practice self-restraint and don't couch everything in overtly offensive terms - in that case, fine i'll take 'sheepish' any day of the week

so what if i referred to you, you're on this board and I was talking about things you say which I think are extremely over the top - so fine, guilty

but where does it say - "NQ should stop saying those things"?

where does it say "NQ should be banned"?

it doesn't - so i'm not telling anyone to do anything

and as for your accusing people of lecturing... :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

sheepish? you mean i practice self-restraint and don't couch everything in overtly offensive terms - in that case, fine i'll take 'sheepish' any day of the week

so what if i referred to you, you're on this board and I was talking about things you say which I think are extremely over the top - so fine, guilty

but where does it say - "NQ should stop saying those things"?

where does it say "NQ should be banned"?

it doesn't - so i'm not telling anyone to do anything

and as for your accusing people of lecturing... :haha:

No, I mean pussy-whipped, a girly-man. But I was being polite.

You think the nutters who are currently cancelling everything in sight started out at the endgame?

The main point stands. Censor yourself if you don't like it, but forget about changing everyone else's world to fit your squeamish sensitivities.

[Niall_Quinn]

Question to the cucks.

Can we have guns now?

I mean, your cuck policies mean nobody can defend themselves. You leave that up to the state, that is never there.

So should your queer, cuck, faggot, tranny, child-fucking polices be reviewed?

I say NO. Never!

Justice is about crying after the event, and making political capital of it.
But actually shooting the fuck out of a would-be murderer, in defence of your own life...

Shouldn't be allowed!

WAHHHHHHHH!

it's WACCISSSSST!

The left LOVE it when women are killed! It's ammunition for their fucked up agenda. They couldn't be happier. The more violent, the more it serves them.

They'll never do ANYTHING to protect ANYONE. But they'll cry about it when their negligence bears fruit.

Hey cuck!

It's pay day! Get Tweeting!

[Letters]

Question to the cucks.

Can we have guns now?

No.

u ok, hun? xoxo

[Niall_Quinn]

We could be on the brink of war with the yellow peril and an order of NUM 33 for 12 ain't going to deter them.

Taiwan was always a breaking point. And now it's in play.

Trouble is, the gooks now have a bigger military than the US and Europe combined in terms of bodies and ships.

They've held back before because they knew they'd get their little yellow arses kicked in retaliation. Now they own the opposition. So there's nothing to hold them back.

Europe is bent over, begging for oriental buggery. Beijing is the the capital of the USA.

The US is worried about bras for its front line transexual "soldiers" (freaks and faggots who will shit their non-gender underwear at the first gunshot)

I fancy our chances - LOL.

The yellow man will be here within the next 20 years, unless things change dramatically?

And you won't like it. I guarantee.

And, before you shit your own male knickers, I have a lot of Chinese takeaways that are friends - so no, this isn't lacist. It's a wake up call about a bunch of incredibly racist fucks who want what you have. You won't find more racist fucks than the Chinese - so have fun cheering for them too when the BBC prompts you.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's worth reading up on the Nuremberg Code, in light of what the media hasn't reported.

There were times when we used to condemn medical experimentation on unwitting human beings.

Those time have passed. Now we all have Pfizer pom-poms.

Rah, rah, rah! Go Pfizer!

[Niall_Quinn]

No.

u ok, hun? xoxo

Call 999.

LOL

LOL

LOOOOOOOL.


LOOOOOOOL.
LOOOOOOOL.
LOOOOOOOL.
LOOOOOOOL.
LOOOOOOOL.
LOOOOOOOL.
LOOOOOOOL.

Make the call.

LOOOOOOOL.

[Niall_Quinn]

The gullible leading the blind.

Maybe 2022 will be different.

[Niall_Quinn]

I loathe Piers Morgan, but this time he's shined a light in that dark place the horrific lefty fascist scumbags are afraid to look.

Not sure what that light will show, because Morgan is a piece of shit.

But it's a nice demonstration that even a piece of shit has more integrity that a leftist.

Well done Morgan. really well done. And I hope you get a new job soon so I can hate you doing it.

It's what it's all about.

The right to speak and the right to disagree.

A mystery to the cancel culture left.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I loathe the Edmonton Oilers.

Cunts

[Ollie the Optimist]

Can we have guns now?


Yes you can.

But you’ve always been able to and can apply for such a licence to have a gun. Sensibly we actually perform background checks in this country so it takes a while to get approved.

[Letters]

This dude is so accident prone...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfXUaukNOxM

[LDG]

Yes you can.

But you’ve always been able to and can apply for such a licence to have a gun. Sensibly we actually perform background checks in this country so it takes a while to get approved.

Tally Ho!

[dazthegooner]

Murray Walker dies aged 97 :rose: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12245165/murray-walker-the-formula-1-commentary-legend-dies-aged-97

[Letters]

Tally Ho!

:lol:

[Mac76]

Murray Walker dies aged 97 :rose: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12245165/murray-walker-the-formula-1-commentary-legend-dies-aged-97

RIP

[Niall_Quinn]

Murray Walker dies aged 97 :rose: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12245165/murray-walker-the-formula-1-commentary-legend-dies-aged-97

Good innings.

Those were the days, when F1 was worth watching and Murray was the gold standard for enthusiasm, if not always accuracy or even coherency.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Judging by the scenes in Clapham this evening, the MET police have make another colossal fuck up

[Letters]

Judging by the scenes in Clapham this evening, the MET police have make another colossal fuck up

Yep, looks that way.
How hard can it be not to be massive pricks at a vigil like this? :doh:

[dazthegooner]

Was said the police were removing women probably not the best course of action considering the cause of the vigil in the first place.

[dazthegooner]

Marvin Hagler dies aged 66 RIP :rose: https://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/12245465/marvin-hagler-former-undisputed-middleweight-champion-dies-aged-66

[Mac76]

Was said the police were removing women probably not the best course of action considering the cause of the vigil in the first place.

People join the police to beat people up then go back to the station to drink booze, watch porn and bugger each other, all this stuff about protecting people is totally outside their comfort zone

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think the police were in a bit of a difficult situation yesterday but they just made every wrong decision possible.

there were several complaints in the last year about how they didn't take action against Extinction Rebellion who blocked roads etc and then again during the black lives matter protests last summer. Their initial response to both was to stand back and not get involved.

yet yesterday, they got involved in a vigil where a woman had allegedly been murdered by one of their own. Just how could anyone at the senior level at the MET not realise the optics of going in hard against women who were holding a vigil?

[GP]

The commissioner has to go

#DickOut

[Letters]

going in hard

:)

[Mac76]

The commissioner has to go

#DickOut

she's certainly made a real cock-up of it

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56404583

Musk :lol:

[dazthegooner]

Jedward demand that the statue of Winston Churchill be removed :lol: https://thepointnews.uk/2021/03/15/jedward-attack-churchill-statue/?fbclid=IwAR3QCZzyNKOIPOQkJGqWVxeQUNxmfiIvwZLe9XSX WsObrpzB3_7SMUIBGPs

[Xhaka Can’t]

Jedward demand that the statue of Winston Churchill be removed :lol: https://thepointnews.uk/2021/03/15/jedward-attack-churchill-statue/?fbclid=IwAR3QCZzyNKOIPOQkJGqWVxeQUNxmfiIvwZLe9XSX WsObrpzB3_7SMUIBGPs

That is probably the most random article I’ve read.

[GP]

Churchill was an iconic figure but I don't think any other insurance company mascot has a statue

[GP]

Ah fuck I forgot about Hastings insurance :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

I see the Musk propaganda has immediately rushed into the vacuums.

Really interesting to watch this happen in realtime.

The same morons are always receptive. I think that's a good enough hypothesis to offer up for peer review at this stage.

I mean, who gives a fuck about Musk?

But the way the lemmings go this way and that, over any subject, on demand.

It's fascinating.

I wish I could buy one of them so I could set my own experiments.

[Mac76]

Ah fuck I forgot about Hastings insurance :doh:

Thwee's a few statues of Admirals around too

[Letters]

propaganda.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTRKCXC0JFg

[Niall_Quinn]

Fascinating. Maybe I'll try some different stimuli to determine if it is cognitive or merely instinctive.

[Letters]

Gawd bless 'im!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56413762

[Mac76]

told you, no problem :cool:

[GP]

Ever seen Weekend at Bernie's?

[Letters]

I actually haven’t.
Know the premise though.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You should see it.

[Letters]

I have heard good things tbf.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You heard NOTHING!

[GP]

Salma Hayek

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56438842

Olympig :lol:

[GP]

To be fair, she is quite piggish

[Letters]

Civilisation Doomed: Official

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/56440805

:ilt:

[dazthegooner]

Well it had my hooked... :yawn:

[GP]

Civilisation Doomed: Official

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/56440805

:ilt:

You realise that is a childrens news site?

[Mac76]

You realise that is a childrens news site?

he's always doing that :haha:

[Letters]

You realise that is a childrens news site?

And?

[Ollie the Optimist]

Lovely sunny day out there.

Just know that the week of the 29th when we can finally meet some friends etc and Easter weekend, it will piss it down :lol:

[Letters]

Football booked for Monday week, the first day we are allowed to play again :d

[Ollie the Optimist]

Football booked for Monday week, the first day we are allowed to play again :d

Booked in a round of golf for the Monday.

Last time i booked a round of golf post lockdown, it pissed it down all day so fully expecting the same again

[Letters]

That's not very optimistic :sulk:

[Ollie the Optimist]

The name probably needs an update after 15 years or so :lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Only fuckwits change their names.

[GP]

Agreed

[Letters]

Swipe right for sexy time :cool:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-56438560

[LDG]

Swipe right for sexy time :cool:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-56438560

It’s cool how rapists will now stop and let women say “non consensual” on an app. Brings the rapist into the 21st century.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I wonder if their privacy policies are GDPR compliant?

[LDG]

I wonder if their privacy policies are GDPR compliant?

If the person can be identified, then they’ll know who all the slappers are

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56492358

:blink:

How do you sell a Tweet?

[Mac76]

[url]

How do you sell a Tweet?

you find someone with tons of cash and no brain

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56505031

NASA :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

I don’t think it gets spoken about enough that what an absolute incredible feat of engineering this Mars mission is. Like, how the hell do you even begin to execute something like this?

[Mac76]

I don’t think it gets spoken about enough that what an absolute incredible feat of engineering this Mars mission is. Like, how the hell do you even begin to execute something like this?

it's maths, physics and engineering that's all

what's more remarkable is that they got to the moon in the 60s using onboard computing technology that's massively less powerful than what's in your phone

[Mac76]

meanwhile talking of managing things with precision... not :lol:

https://twitter.com/nameshiv/status/1374539405193449472

[Ollie the Optimist]

meanwhile talking of managing things with precision... not :lol:

https://twitter.com/nameshiv/status/1374539405193449472

I was just reading that story this morning. Of all the places to ground your vessel, that is probably the worst :lol:

[GP]

Must have been a woman driver

[Letters]

:lol:

#NotAllMen

:sulk:

[Marc Overmars]

it's maths, physics and engineering that's all

what's more remarkable is that they got to the moon in the 60s using onboard computing technology that's massively less powerful than what's in your phone

That was done in a studio

[Letters]

Kubrick :bow:

[Mac76]

That was done in a studio

oh of course, i was forgetting... :rolleyes:

[GP]

People who think space is real :haha:

[Letters]

meanwhile talking of managing things with precision... not :lol:

https://twitter.com/nameshiv/status/1374539405193449472

https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000&fbclid=IwAR3Qa-2IXsrXlcEc4PTjoT6eMo49lmaZedxMNDG51X8zFoiY6Sh_-HoFcXM

:d

[Niall_Quinn]

People who think space is real :haha:

Be careful comrade. Next week a directive may come down that declares space is not real. And then you'll have to burn this thread and laugh at people who point at the sky.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Alex Salmond forming his own Independence Party in Scotland and standing in Scottish Elections.

Peoples Front of Judaea vs the Judaean People’s Front :popcorn:

[Niall_Quinn]

Alex Salmond forming his own Independence Party in Scotland and standing in Scottish Elections.

Peoples Front of Judaea vs the Judaean People’s Front :popcorn:

Child molester vs stinky commie cunt. The Scots are blessed.

[Mac76]

Finally some good news

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/film-tv/news/tina-turner-unlikely-to-ever-perform-again-documentary-makers-40245825.html

[Letters]

Not a fan?!

[Letters]

Also, these are bloody awful

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lunarbaboon-comics_n_5a0f15d1e4b0e97dffed08aa

[Mac76]

https://twitter.com/brianmoore666/status/1375831099780313093

:haha:

:pal:

[Letters]

You won, get over it :d

[Xhaka Can’t]

I didn’t expect the leopards to eat MY face when I voted for the Leopards Eating Faces Party!

[Letters]

https://newsthump.com/2021/03/29/suez-blockage-uk-sends-team-of-experts-to-help-egypt-pretend-this-is-what-they-wanted-all-along/

:lol:

[Mac76]

https://newsthump.com/2021/03/29/suez-blockage-uk-sends-team-of-experts-to-help-egypt-pretend-this-is-what-they-wanted-all-along/

:lol:

:gp:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Must have been a bit nerve wracking for hte first few vessels that sailed through yesterday.

You dont want to make the same mistake as the EverGreen :lol:

[Mac76]

Must have been a bit nerve wracking for hte first few vessels that sailed through yesterday.

You dont want to make the same mistake as the EverGreen :lol:

you mean the 'Ever Given' which is what apparently what it's called even though it has 'EverGreen' written in massive letters on the side

don't ask me why... :shrug:

[Ollie the Optimist]

you mean the 'Ever Given' which is what apparently what it's called even though it has 'EverGreen' written in massive letters on the side

don't ask me why... :shrug:

There’s actually a simple reason for that.

Most shipowners will paint their company name on the vessel in large letters while naming it something else. If you look at Maesrk, MSC, Zim etc all their vessels have their company name written in large letters.

The vessel name, will be written in smaller letters near the bow (usually above the anchor). Many companies will name their ships with the company name first such as “MSC Opera” or “Maersk Honam” but others will call their ships by names that are to do with their country rather than the shipowner.

I just couldn’t remember the name of the Evergreen vessel :lol:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

What a let down this heatwave day was. Barely got warm, sun kept going behind clouds, lawnmowers going every 5 minutes and there were a fuck ton of kids about. Wish I'd just gone into the office now.

April 12 better be nice :pray:

[Letters]

O RLY?

It’s been basically perfect round here.
This is how the weather should be all the time.
Won’t last though <_<

[Mac76]

O RLY?

It’s been basically perfect round here.
This is how the weather should be all the time.


:gp:

literally t-shirt weather - went for a nice walk and we ate lunch in the garden :cool:

[Mac76]

oh dear, another disgruntled bunch of prawns :rimshot:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/31/uk-shellfish-farmers-threaten-legal-action-over-ban-on-exports-to-eu

[Niall_Quinn]

Temporary victory for science, the psychopath Bill Gates' plans to experiment with blocking the sun to avert the end of the world in 2012 has been abandoned, well, because Gates is a fucking loon that should locked up. That's not the official reason, because diplomacy. Instead the nutter's plans have been curtailed because there is a "split" in scientific consensus - even though science and consensus are oxymoronic. Consensus is for politicians, science is for people who aren't Bill Gates.

When is somebody going to put a bullet square between the shifty eyes of this cunt?

Can you imagine he even had the nerve to propose such a bizarre proposal? Has somebody become too big for their boots?

[Globalgunner]

Commercial success sometimes makes a man think he has also grown an Intellect to match. Gates is no deep thinker.

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56615521

I’d like to block her Suez Canal ##

[LDG]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56615521

I’d block her canal

[Letters]

:blink:

[GP]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56615521

I'd have sex with her anus

[Niall_Quinn]

No news there.

[Letters]

Shit on it! :(

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/apr/06/friday-night-dinner-star-paul-ritter-dies-of-brain-tumour-at-54

:rose:

[Marc Overmars]

Just seen that! So sad.

Love Friday Night Dinner.

[GP]

He was really good in Chernobyl.

[Letters]

Tbh I didn’t even realise that was him till I was reading his obituary today.
Sad, I didn’t know he was ill.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Tbh I didn’t even realise that was him till I was reading his obituary today.
Sad, I didn’t know he was ill.

Nor did I, kept his illness out the media. Also thought he was much older. 54 is no age.

[Letters]

Beaver Champion! :d

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/herne-bay/news/mp-takes-on-beaver-champion-role-245205

[GP]

That was my nickname at Uni

[Niall_Quinn]

That was my nickname at Uni

What, Kentonline?

They weren't saying "Kent" That's just the accent.

[LDG]

That was my nickname at Uni

Face beavered, face beavered

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-56187965

She has big tits, tbf

[IBK]

What, Kentonline?

They weren't saying "Kent" That's just the accent.

LMAO

[Marc Overmars]

Prince Philip has died. :rose:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11437314

[Letters]

told you, no problem :cool:

:pal:

[Letters]

I think I speak for everyone when I say "do we get a day off?"

RIP :rose:

Can't imagine the Queen will be far behind.

[GP]

RIP in peace

[Marc Overmars]

I think I speak for everyone when I say "do we get a day off?"

RIP :rose:

Can't imagine the Queen will be far behind.

Probably a week long bank holiday when she pops it.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think I speak for everyone when I say "do we get a day off?"

RIP :rose:

Can't imagine the Queen will be far behind.


They were married 75 years so I can’t imagine what it must be like to no longer have your partner of that many years no longer with you.

I lost my Grandfather yesterday, he was married for 63 years to my Grandmother. Such a long time and I hope my marriage lasts as long

:rose:

[Letters]

Sorry to hear that Ollie. :hug:

[Mac76]

Sorry to hear that Ollie. :hug:

Me too, my condolences Ollie

[Mac76]

RIP in peace

You know the 'P' in 'RIP' stands for 'peace' right...?

ed: oh and the 'I' stands for 'in'...

[Mac76]

:pal:

Damn... :getcoat:

:lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Me too, my condolences Ollie

Thank you Mac & Letters.

Quite a shock as although he was not completely well, we weren’t expecting it so soon. Just glad I saw him on Monday

[IBK]

They were married 75 years so I can’t imagine what it must be like to no longer have your partner of that many years no longer with you.

I lost my Grandfather yesterday, he was married for 63 years to my Grandmother. Such a long time and I hope my marriage lasts as long

:rose:

Condolances, Ollie.

and sad news about Prince Philip...:rose:

[WMUG]

Damn, and I was hoping this would be all poor taste jokes about Phillip.

Sorry to hear that, Ollie.

[Globalgunner]

Princess Anne will have to step up as the insensitive gaffe factory

[Letters]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/tottenham/prince-philip-death-jose-mourinho-b1829094.html

Jose :bow:


:ninja:

[LDG]

Ahhhh, so they were routine “how long’s he gonna live” tests. “In good spirits” being formaldehyde presumably.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

In good spirits just meant he's in a seance now.

[Niall_Quinn]

The cunt was dead in the car on the way back from the hospital tbf.

They'll lay him down to rest now and feed him virgins blood in 100 years so he can rise and interbreed once more.

Maybe he'll come back as a virus - again.

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56705671

:(

:rose:

Used to watch it in that era. She was always a bit cray cray.

[Letters]

The ITV London News ended with a story about...Prince Philip being patron of ZSL - they shoehorned it in because it reopened today.
I mean, Gawd bless ‘em and all that but holy shit will you give it a rest!

[GP]

You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body.

[WMUG]

We've been paying £900 pcm, and our contract's up for renewal in July.

We got an email from the company saying they'd like to offer us a new contract at £944. We had a look around at a few other flats in the area, took account of the fact that a lot of the flats in our building haven't been rented out since it opened and asked if we could just keep paying £900.

They emailed back inviting us in for a meeting today to discuss it, so we spent the weekend and evenings preparing our case, gathering evidence etc.

I psyched myself up for something of a showdown with negotiations, offers and counter offers etc.

We went into the meeting, the woman sat us down and basically said, "Yeah, £900 works for us".

Oh. Um. Cool.

Now I'm wondering how much lower we could've gone :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Should have gone full Wenger and lowballed the shit out of them.

[WMUG]

You're not wrong, probably could've got away with it in hindsight.

Looking at potentially buying soon, we'd be paying around half that in mortgage repayments.

Shit's fucked.

[Ollie the Optimist]

You're not wrong, probably could've got away with it in hindsight.

Looking at potentially buying soon, we'd be paying around half that in mortgage repayments.

Shit's fucked.

I wouldn’t be so sure on that but does depend on where you are buying & deposit amount.

We spoke to our Mortgage broker this month to see our options, we are in a better financial position but banks will lend us less money then they offered a year ago. The interest rate has also shot up so the payments are pretty much the same as our rent.

If you havent got a 15% deposit minimum, you’re fucked essentially in this market

[WMUG]

I wouldn’t be so sure on that but does depend on where you are buying & deposit amount.

We spoke to our Mortgage broker this month to see our options, we are in a better financial position but banks will lend us less money then they offered a year ago. The interest rate has also shot up so the payments are pretty much the same as our rent.

If you havent got a 15% deposit minimum, you’re fucked essentially in this market

We'd have my parents acting as a guarantor in this case (Daddy :bow: )

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/apr/10/first-time-buyers-how-you-can-get-a-foot-on-the-property-ladder

The bit on guarantor and family mortgages explains it.

[Letters]

We've been paying £900 pcm, and our contract's up for renewal in July.
By "we" you mean "daddy", of course ;)

[Letters]

Also, young people are so screwed in this country. £900 a month in rent for what I'm going to assume is not exactly a mansion. How are kids :rolleyes: supposed to save for a deposit on a place these days without family help? Our mortgage is admittedly more than that but only because we mortgaged ourselves up to the eyeballs to take the step up to the place we are in now. The mortgage on the old place was lower and would probably be paid now if we'd stayed put.

[WMUG]

By "we" you mean "daddy", of course ;)

Nah, not this time. Got a job n shit. We've managed to save up 3 months' expenses since Octoberish which we're using as an emergency fund, so we could theoretically have a deposit together by the time our next contract ends, but what with the pandemic, we've not been spending a lot of money. Also that money's for saving, not spunking on a deposit, so Daddy it is.

We're lucky though, both got decent paying jobs and parents who've financially supported us by paying our way through uni.

For those who don't have that, I don't know what you'd do. Houseshare, I guess. We're in a 1 bed flat in Salford. A nice one admittedly, but still. Homeownership is a pipe dream for lots of people of my generation, at least until their parents die.

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56740980


The Queen has conducted her first in-person royal duty since her husband, the Duke of Edinburgh, died on Friday.
The monarch hosted a ceremony in which the Earl Peel formally stood down as Lord Chamberlain, whose office organises royal ceremonies.
During a private event held at Windsor Castle, the Queen accepted her former royal aide's wand and office insignia

Wand and insignia :lol:

This is a silly country

[Mac76]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56740980



Wand and insignia :lol:

This is a silly country

"accepted her former royal aide's wand" eh...? :##:

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56756731

CATERPILLAR WARS!!

[Mac76]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56756731

CATERPILLAR WARS!!

it looks revolting whoever makes it

[LDG]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56740980



Wand and insignia :lol:

This is a silly country

HRH Potter

[Letters]

Had my text today about "the jab".

Haven't bookedyet.

[dazthegooner]

Yep got one as well and me neither.

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56788998

Chatting! This is huge!

[Mac76]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56788998

Chatting! This is huge!

I like the bit that says Harry is "very caught up in the lifestyle and attitudes of California."

Presumably a polite way of saying he was coked up to the eyeballs...

[Letters]

Whoopsie!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56794652

[Letters]

Why can’t chavs stop breeding? :doh:
My stupid goddaughter has gone and popped out a baby far too young.
Her mum did that and it ended up as one might expect.
And so the cycle repeats...

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyHh1NbE5jI

Nasa :bow:

[Ollie the Optimist]

The new ESL has probably generated more content & posts for this board then any other event recently :lol:

[Letters]

Pretty much.
NASA fly a helicopter ON FUCKING MARS and barely a raised eyebrow. But the ESL...OMFG!!!11!ONE!

[Mac76]

Pretty much.
NASA fly a helicopter ON FUCKING MARS and barely a raised eyebrow. But the ESL...OMFG!!!11!ONE!

well it's more like a drone really so no big deal ;)

why the cheesy soundtrack though - i thought they had mics on the rover to allow audio?

[Niall_Quinn]

Pretty much.
NASA fly a helicopter ON FUCKING MARS and barely a raised eyebrow. But the ESL...OMFG!!!11!ONE!

Except it's not Mars, it's the Nevada desert.

[Letters]

Oh don't bloody start with that shit :lol:

[Mac76]

Except it's not Mars, it's the Nevada desert.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[Ollie the Optimist]

It’s the london mayor election next week and to me, this is the most sensible manifesto.

The leading candidates are all piss poor. Might as well vote for £1 crossaints :lol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzgKYWPWQAIGIpS?format=jpg&name=medium

[Mac76]

It’s the london mayor election next week and to me, this is the most sensible manifesto.

The leading candidates are all piss poor. Might as well vote for £1 crossaints :lol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzgKYWPWQAIGIpS?format=jpg&name=medium

was there supposed to be a link there?

[Ollie the Optimist]

was there supposed to be a link there?

Yeah :lol:

There is now though. The first image link i put in didnt work but i can see the image now

[GP]

Count Binface is disappointed to be polling neck and neck with comedy candidate Laurence Fox.

[Niall_Quinn]

Currently if you do a Google search for "ITV fake climate change photo Himalayas" you get a stream of pro-warmism doctrine and an article about Trump. Modern tech really has upped its game.

[WMUG]

It’s the london mayor election next week and to me, this is the most sensible manifesto.

The leading candidates are all piss poor. Might as well vote for £1 crossaints :lol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzgKYWPWQAIGIpS?format=jpg&name=medium

Khan's promised to name all the overground lines, that gets my vote no questions asked tbf.

Or it would if I still lived there :lol:

[Mac76]

It’s the london mayor election next week and to me, this is the most sensible manifesto.

The leading candidates are all piss poor. Might as well vote for £1 crossaints :lol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzgKYWPWQAIGIpS?format=jpg&name=medium

I pretty much agree with all of that, got to say :)

Especially 9, 10, 11 and 12 - he was really on a roll at that point...

[Ollie the Optimist]

I pretty much agree with all of that, got to say :)

Especially 9, 10, 11 and 12 - he was really on a roll at that point...

He should be winning by a landslide with just policy number 9 tbh

[Letters]

This guy might be a genius, you know :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjNKT-KcOGQ

[Xhaka Can’t]

The field of candidates in the race for London mayor is truly abysmal.

I’m seriously voting for CBF.

[Mac76]

I think Kahn's done pretty well, he gets my vote though if i thought CBF could win, it'd be a different matter :lol:

[Letters]

I see a lot of people say that Khan has been “a disaster”, but it’s rarely backed up with anything concrete.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I see a lot of people say that Khan has been “a disaster”, but it’s rarely backed up with anything concrete.

I wouldn’t say he has been a disaster but i dont think he has been any good either. Reading reports on his time as Mayor, there are quite a few accusations that he is similar to Boris in the sense that he is difficult to pin down to making a decision and he only really wants to get involved when there is good PR.

I dont think he has made any notable achievements during the past 5 years but on measures that he promised to be judged, he has failed. His famous “you won’t pay more for your season ticket in 2020 then you do now in 2016” completely failed. My season ticket went up each year. He promised to build large numbers of new housing and just like boris, failed to deliver on those numbers. https://www.cityam.com/sadiq-khan-is-yet-to-meet-half-of-his-2023-housing-target/ This article states he has failed to build even half, or start building.

While not his fault completely here, he is pretty weak at dealing with the Government. He built himself up as some expert negotiator yet failed Londoners during the TFL bailout talks when congestion charge zones extended to 24/7 etc. It’s difficult for a Mayor to take on a government but he is not exactly on best terms with them either through his own actions as is s normal in politics. There are politicians who can build bridges across the divide and achieve things but i dont think Khan is one of them. He is too antagonistic & regularly attacks the tories (again, not much of an issue as normal in politics ) but then when you need to work together it makes it much harder.

I think perhaps the Mayor might be better as an independent, someone who could focus solely on teh job. I think its fair to say that the last two mayors have used it to boost their profile for higher office and it worked for Boris. Doubt it will work for Khan as i dont see him as a future PM but who knows.

I do wish Rory Stewart was still running as independent. He’d have my vote in a heartbeat. The rest of the candiates are crap but ulitaltemly none of them will achieve anything of note

[Mac76]

i don't just judge people on what they do but also what they won't do - we all know a Tory will punish the poor, sell everything off, give contracts to their mates and basically mess everything up - if Kahn doesn't do that it's a bonus IMO

[Letters]

Tbh, I might not bother voting. I'm not sure I understand the question. Or maybe I do, but it's multiple choice and I don't understand any of the answers.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i don't just judge people on what they do but also what they won't do - we all know a Tory will punish the poor, sell everything off, give contracts to their mates and basically mess everything up - if Kahn doesn't do that it's a bonus IMO

Not sure Khan is completely clean on contracts as towards end of last year, there were allegations of cronyism on his part by giving contracts to mates without tenders

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20201227/281560883405237

[Ollie the Optimist]

Tbh, I might not bother voting. I'm not sure I understand the question. Or maybe I do, but it's multiple choice and I don't understand any of the answers.

It’s bad enough in this election trying to find one candidate i want to vote for. The fact i have to put down a second preference is even harder :lol:

[Letters]

Choosing a candidate in UK Elections seems to be a bit like picking Arsenal midfielders, it's often about the least bad option.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Choosing a candidate in UK Elections seems to be a bit like picking Arsenal midfielders, it's often about the least bad option.


Since the 2017 election, i agree with that. Ive voted more to stop someone else winning then because i actually wanted the party i voted for to win.

I didnt think May was a great candidate and disagreed with a few of her policies but at least she (in my opinion) was acting in what she thought was best for the country. The same cannot be said about Johnson at all.

But then again, the rest of the leaders of the other parties are a waste of space as well. Surely one day soon, we will get some candidates for PM that actually seem decent & competent

[Mac76]

Surely one day soon, we will get some candidates for PM that actually seem decent & competent

:haha:

[Letters]

:haha:

:lol:

He is called Ollie the Optimist, to be fair.

[Ollie the Optimist]

:lol:

He is called Ollie the Optimist, to be fair.

There are decent MPs out there tbf :lol:

I’d like to see Tom Tugendhat take over the Tory party, think he is a decent & competent MP and would make a fine leader.

Must confess i know less on the labour side but Dan Jarvis always impresses.

Still think Rory Stewart would have made a great PM if he had got through the leadership contest in 2019. I’d have voted for him but instead spoilt my ballot as Hunt & Johnson can piss off

[Mac76]

There are decent MPs out there tbf :lol:

I’d like to see Tom Tugendhat take over the Tory party, think he is a decent & competent MP and would make a fine leader.

Must confess i know less on the labour side but Dan Jarvis always impresses.

Still think Rory Stewart would have made a great PM if he had got through the leadership contest in 2019. I’d have voted for him but instead spoilt my ballot as Hunt & Johnson can piss off

Rory Stewart wrote a great book about travelling across Afghanistan - 'The Places in Between' - thoroughly recommended.

not sure about him as PM though - the trouble with any Tory PM is they end up giving in to the lunatics in the party, of which there are way too many.

if Clegg hadn't sold out the Lib Dems we'd have a genuine third party to keep the Tories and socialists under control - i actually think if we could have a decent system of PR then we'd have genuine coalition governments (the LD-Tory one was basically the Tories with the LDs as their scapegoats) where no-one could do anything too extreme - i actually think that's the best way to do things

[Ollie the Optimist]

Rory Stewart wrote a great book about travelling across Afghanistan - 'The Places in Between' - thoroughly recommended.

not sure about him as PM though - the trouble with any Tory PM is they end up giving in to the lunatics in the party, of which there are way too many.

if Clegg hadn't sold out the Lib Dems we'd have a genuine third party to keep the Tories and socialists under control - i actually think if we could have a decent system of PR then we'd have genuine coalition governments (the LD-Tory one was basically the Tories with the LDs as their scapegoats) where no-one could do anything too extreme - i actually think that's the best way to do things

He was certainly an interesting politician with a very different background in terms of what he had done before becoming an MP.

I accept your point about the tory leader and dealing with the lunatics but same applies to labour at the moment with dealing with lunatics in that party. Although, while the ERG lot would have been livid if Mays deal had passed, Stewart’s policy was to get that deal through and if he won the leadership contest on that policy, it would have meant over half the party members supporting it so difficult for them to oppose. Although i suspect after about 2 years, they’d have tried to make life difficult.

With PR, I’m not convinced by it. Ive seen people saying that the parties need to work together to oust the tories but ignore the fact that those parties have key differences. Take Labour & SNP, one wants an independent Scotland & the others doesnt. Bit of a key difference. If the parties were similar, they would merge.

[Mac76]

He was certainly an interesting politician with a very different background in terms of what he had done before becoming an MP.

I accept your point about the tory leader and dealing with the lunatics but same applies to labour at the moment with dealing with lunatics in that party. Although, while the ERG lot would have been livid if Mays deal had passed, Stewart’s policy was to get that deal through and if he won the leadership contest on that policy, it would have meant over half the party members supporting it so difficult for them to oppose. Although i suspect after about 2 years, they’d have tried to make life difficult.

With PR, I’m not convinced by it. Ive seen people saying that the parties need to work together to oust the tories but ignore the fact that those parties have key differences. Take Labour & SNP, one wants an independent Scotland & the others doesnt. Bit of a key difference. If the parties were similar, they would merge.

i don't agree on your point on PR, the fact is that most people vote for centre or centre-left partioes yet the right invariably wins because there's basically only the Tories to vote for other than a few nutter parties - we're then stuck in a right-wing elective dictatorship while they 5 years' worth of damage, some of it irrepairable

[Letters]

Who knew ladders existed? :(

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/24/donald-trump-border-wall-scaled-ladders

[Mac76]

Who knew ladders existed? :(

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/24/donald-trump-border-wall-scaled-ladders

:haha:

[Ollie the Optimist]

i don't agree on your point on PR, the fact is that most people vote for centre or centre-left partioes yet the right invariably wins because there's basically only the Tories to vote for other than a few nutter parties - we're then stuck in a right-wing elective dictatorship while they 5 years' worth of damage, some of it irrepairable

A fair argument but one i disagree with.

If the parties on teh left, were similar then they should merge. Those parties all stand separately because they know they have key differences between them so i dont buy into the fact that if you add their votes together, the country wants left wing government. if they wanted left wing, they’d vote labour in (unlikely to get a green etc majoirty) but they dont.

However, PR does run the risk as allowing the lunatics on the left to hold sway or indeed nationalists in Scotland/Wales as we found out when May did her deal with the DUP. That small party holds of a lot power to allow the main party to govern and can demand a lot. Say labour needed the 50 SNP votes to gain power, the SNP would demand a referendum in return etc,. I accept this is also part of FPTP system but less common in our country then would be under PR. There have not been many coalition governments since WWII or indeed ones with confidence & supply agreements and bar the Cameron coalition, i dont think any of the others lasted more then 2 years.

[Letters]

i don't agree on your point on PR, the fact is that most people vote for centre or centre-left partioes yet the right invariably wins because there's basically only the Tories to vote for other than a few nutter parties - we're then stuck in a right-wing elective dictatorship while they 5 years' worth of damage, some of it irrepairable

I can't see any argument against a system which would make the results of an election and the government it produces more representative of how people actually vote. I think the argument for the system we have now is it produces "strong governments". So great, we now have a "strong government" which a minority of people voted for. And don't confuse "strong" with "competent".

[Ollie the Optimist]

I can't see any argument against a system which would make the results of an election and the government it produces more representative of how people actually vote. I think the argument for the system we have now is it produces "strong governments". So great, we now have a "strong government" which a minority of people voted for. And don't confuse "strong" with "competent".

lets take the last election where the tories, brexit party & DUP won close to 46% of the vote with all the remaining parties winning 54%. Very rough maths there and I’ve included brexit party & DUP as they are on the right.

However, they are all very different parties with different aims & policies. I dont think you can lump them together and the same goes for the 54% on the other side.

In that 54%, you have Lib Dem’s, SNP & Labour as well as few others like the Greens. Each party is so fundamentally different to each other that you cant just say that 54% should govern because thats what the country wants. It isn’t. People might have voted labour in Scotland as they want a left wing party who backs the union which is a massive difference to the SNP. It really isn’t easy just to lump that 54% together and say its what the people want because that isn’t true and would create a mess.

I think in the 2019 election its fair to say the tories won it., their votes went up and they gained votes from labour in the seats they won, people were actively voting tory for the first time rather then simply not voting labour.

[Mac76]

lets take the last election where the tories, brexit party & DUP won close to 46% of the vote with all the remaining parties winning 54%. Very rough maths there and I’ve included brexit party & DUP as they are on the right.

However, they are all very different parties with different aims & policies. I dont think you can lump them together and the same goes for the 54% on the other side.

In that 54%, you have Lib Dem’s, SNP & Labour as well as few others like the Greens. Each party is so fundamentally different to each other that you cant just say that 54% should govern because thats what the country wants. It isn’t. People might have voted labour in Scotland as they want a left wing party who backs the union which is a massive difference to the SNP. It really isn’t easy just to lump that 54% together and say its what the people want because that isn’t true and would create a mess.

I think in the 2019 election its fair to say the tories won it., their votes went up and they gained votes from labour in the seats they won, people were actively voting tory for the first time rather then simply not voting labour.

2019 was a unique set of circumstances where the Labour leader was extreme left, some northern Labour morons voted Tory because of the EU thing etc etc

nevertheless a very good example as the majority of votes went to pro-EU or second--referendum parties but we still got a strong pro-leave government - proves my point exactly

[Ollie the Optimist]

2019 was a unique set of circumstances where the Labour leader was extreme left, some northern Labour morons voted Tory because of the EU thing etc etc

nevertheless a very good example as the majority of votes went to pro-EU or second--referendum parties but we still got a strong pro-leave government - proves my point exactly

By same token, in 2017, majority of votes went to parties (tory & labour) who wanted to get brexit done and no second referendum.

Labours position was to accept the result in 2017 and negotiate a deal. There was no mention of a second referendum in their manifesto in that election.


I accept that as things develop policies change and parties adapt to try and win elections but those arguing for PR were not quite accepting of the majority voting for brexit in 2017 as they are on majority voting for second referendum in 2019.


I also accept your point that 2019 was a unique election. However, looking at the 2015 results, Cameron won 37% and UKIP won 13% which under PR would have almost meant a tory government propped up by Farage (and probably the DUP as well i suspect just to really push it over 50%), I’m not sure anyone wanting PR would accept that result thats for sure :lol:

I dont think 2015 was a unique election either, it was fairly standard. Given the Lib Dem’s have been in coalition with tories for 5 years and Cameron & Clegg were close, I’m not sure you could argue they sit well with the others on the left either to force out the tories.

[Mac76]

but idealogically, most elections show the majority of the population isn't right-wing and yet we are often under a right-wing party - also it's wrong that only one party with a minority of the vote makes every law - and also there's the distortion of how many seats the winning paty gets as opposed to a share of the vote.

the power and decision-making should be shared out more fairly

[Letters]

The last election was pretty clear, granted.
Although I'd note that it was still under 50% of people who voted for them and despite that they have a huge majority.

The 2015 election is a better example of what is wrong with the system though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Kingdom_general_election
The Tories got close to 37% of the vote but a majority of seats, so we have a ruling party which fewer than two fifths of people voted for.
And as you say, 13% of people voted for UKIP and they got 1 seat. One! That's 1 in 8 people who voted for a party who ended up with virtually no representation. As much as I can't abide Farage, that can't be right.

A big issue with our current system is that it encourages tactical voting and it leaves a lot of people disenfranchised. If you're in a safe seat then it doesn't really matter who you vote for. Surely any system which yields more representative results has to be a good thing. EDIT: It means people can vote for who they actually want to win, not who they think has a chance of winning. It would pretty much eliminate tactical and protest votes.

It might mean more hung parliaments, ruling parties having to do deals with other parties to get things done, but wouldn't the end result be policies which reflect what more people want?

[Mac76]

It might mean more hung parliaments, ruling parties having to do deals with other parties to get things done, but wouldn't the end result be policies which reflect what more people want?

yes, exactly

[Ollie the Optimist]

The last election was pretty clear, granted.
Although I'd note that it was still under 50% of people who voted for them and despite that they have a huge majority.

The 2015 election is a better example of what is wrong with the system though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Kingdom_general_election
The Tories got close to 37% of the vote but a majority of seats, so we have a ruling party which fewer than two fifths of people voted for.
And as you say, 13% of people voted for UKIP and they got 1 seat. One! That's 1 in 8 people who voted for a party who ended up with virtually no representation. As much as I can't abide Farage, that can't be right.

A big issue with our current system is that it encourages tactical voting and it leaves a lot of people disenfranchised. If you're in a safe seat then it doesn't really matter who you vote for. Surely any system which yields more representative results has to be a good thing. EDIT: It means people can vote for who they actually want to win, not who they think has a chance of winning. It would pretty much eliminate tactical and protest votes.

It might mean more hung parliaments, ruling parties having to do deals with other parties to get things done, but wouldn't the end result be policies which reflect what more people want?

Or more elections as no one can agree anything :lol:

On a serious note though, i do accept that point but on the other hand, if the parties were broadly all the same, they would be the same party but they aren’t hence why people vote for a range of them. The risk with PR say is that in order for labour (for example) to form a governemnt, they need the support of the SNP who say that as their price, they want an independent referendum. Many might have voted labour to stop that so does that policy reflect what those people want? Or a party might stand on a manifesto to build HS2 yet to govern they might need support of 10 greens who refuse to allow them build it etc.

Conversely on the right, for the tories to govern, UKIP could have demanded no deal after the refendum as price their support and got it through. Again, not what people would have wanted i suspect on all sides.

I dont believe that FPTP is a perfect system, there are flaws but I’m yet to be convinced by the alternatives so far. Ive seen a few on twitter arguing that things need to change because they keep losing and its not fair. That is not a winning argument. I dont think labour are losing because of the voting system but rather their leader/policies are deeply unpopular.

We did have a referendum in 2011 on a different system but i think turnout was 27% (could be wrong) so perhaps this is not hte biggest issue in voters minds. It’s a big issue on twitter naturally but as the past 8 years have taught us, what is popular on twitter is not the same in reality

[Letters]

We did have a referendum in 2011 on a different system but i think turnout was 27% (could be wrong) so perhaps this is not hte biggest issue in voters minds.

You are wrong! It was 42%, which is still pretty feeble Maybe only 27% of people voted for AV?
And while AV is demonstrably more representative, it was too complicated for many to understand.
Cameron figured he could give Clegg the referendum, knowing there was a pretty good chance it would get defeated and so it turned out.
You have made up some scenarios above so yeah, there could be issues but we have the current real issues I have outlined.
And as I've alluded to, the very fact we have the current FPTP changes the way people vote. I'd suggest that any system which means people feel they have to vote tactically or vote for the "least bad" option which they feel can win rather than who they want to vote for is inherently bad.

From what I understand Germany has been using PR fairly successfully. I'm sure they have issues, there is no perfect system, but as a country they seem to have done OK.

[Mac76]

You are wrong! It was 42%, which is still pretty feeble Maybe only 27% of people voted for AV?
And while AV is demonstrably more representative, it was too complicated for many to understand.
Cameron figured he could give Clegg the referendum, knowing there was a pretty good chance it would get defeated and so it turned out.
You have made up some scenarios above so yeah, there could be issues but we have the current real issues I have outlined.
And as I've alluded to, the very fact we have the current FPTP changes the way people vote. I'd suggest that any system which means people feel they have to vote tactically or vote for the "least bad" option which they feel can win rather than who they want to vote for is inherently bad.

From what I understand Germany has been using PR fairly successfully. I'm sure they have issues, there is no perfect system, but as a country they seem to have done OK.

yes, the 2011 vote was a complete stitchup which Clegg got as a concession for supporting austerity and completely contradicting the Lib Dems' promise on tuition fees - nice one Nick...

[IBK]

Rory Stewart wrote a great book about travelling across Afghanistan - 'The Places in Between' - thoroughly recommended.

not sure about him as PM though - the trouble with any Tory PM is they end up giving in to the lunatics in the party, of which there are way too many.

if Clegg hadn't sold out the Lib Dems we'd have a genuine third party to keep the Tories and socialists under control - i actually think if we could have a decent system of PR then we'd have genuine coalition governments (the LD-Tory one was basically the Tories with the LDs as their scapegoats) where no-one could do anything too extreme - i actually think that's the best way to do things

100%

[Ollie the Optimist]

All fair & reasonable points made by letters & mac.

Suspect none of will change each other’s minds on this but enjoyable to debate it.

[Letters]

yes, the 2011 vote was a complete stitchup which Clegg got as a concession for supporting austerity and completely contradicting the Lib Dems' promise on tuition fees - nice one Nick...

Our local MP at the time came to a couple of events at our church (he's a Tory, a Christian and a Gooner, so only 1/3rd bad!) around the time of that election, once before and once after. I remember chatting to him about it all. Before the election when it was all looking close he said he couldn't see the Tories going in to coalition with the Lib Debs. That's exactly what happened of course, which is nothing to do with him, he was just a back bencher. So after the election he was at another event and I said that I didn't see what Nick Clegg was getting out of it. The MP said "he gets to be deputy PM!". Which is a bit like being made milk monitor. It was a disaster for Clegg and the Lib Dems.

[Niall_Quinn]

How far can the warmism loons go before the average person sees through their bullshit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFSYFG7ygCw

These nutters want to reduce carbon dioxide levels on an already carbon dioxide starved planet, they want to get rid of animals, transport and travel. They want you to eat insects. And they want to replace efficient energy with inefficient non-alternatives that pollute even more.

These people are utterly crazy and yet the average bod in the street will just accept this is a thing. No evidence, no facts, no data - just crappy computer models and an endless propaganda drive.

Now they are busy destroying data and reports that easily disprove their bullshit. Just like Orwell's 1984 and the great communist tragedies of the past, unwanted history is simply being discarded or rewritten to suit the crackpot agenda.

And, as always, a small group of corporate interests are on standby to cash in.

It's so ridiculously transparent you have to wonder how anyone is fooled by it.

[Mac76]

Oh dear, here he is with the usual lengthy BS - on the bottle early tonight are we...?

[Letters]

Michael Collins :rose:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56921562

Often forgotten about, but a big part of the Apollo 11 mission.

[Mac76]

Definitely, RIP

[Letters]

Can you expand on these two points?



These nutters want to reduce carbon dioxide levels on an already carbon dioxide starved planet
Now they are busy destroying data and reports that easily disprove their bullshit.

And, out of interest, what is your position on global warming, exactly?

Is it that it isn't happening? I mean, I'm mid 40s - although hurtling towards 50 with disconcerting speed. But there's a clear difference in the climate in this country since I was a kid. We used to get regular, deep snow. It's rare now. I remember when I'd go and see fireworks it was foot-numbingly cold. Now a light jacket will suffice. I'd suggest the fact that the climate has changed in the UK at least is pretty much undeniable.

Is it that you concede it's happening but you don't think it's caused by human action so there's no point in doing anything about it?
Or is it that you do think we are contributing to it but you don't think the counter-measures being suggested will help. Or you don't think it's going to cause big problems so it doesn't really matter?

Or none of the above in which case fill in your own answer.

I mean, it seems to me that it is happening. We are causing it, or certainly contributing. And it causing and will continue to cause problems.
So I'm generally on board with "we should probably do something". I'm less sure about what. And have to say when I've been to places like India I have thought "oh what's the bloody point?!". As Sean Lock said, doing a bit or recycling feels like turning up to the aftermath of an earthquake with a dustpan and brush.
But, like Covid, I do think there's a situation which demands a response.

[Mac76]

Can you expand on these two points?



And, out of interest, what is your position on global warming, exactly?



it's all a lefty, lizard-people conspiracy of course, aren't you paying attention...? ;)

[Mac76]

"US automakers have outlined principles designed to encourage drivers to pay attention to the road while driving partially automated vehicles as political scrutiny of the technology intensifies following a series of fatal crashes."

that's a good idea, what they could also do is 'encourage' them to keep hold of the wheel and have their feet on the pedals just in case - or even just, like, drive the car... :rolleyes:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/28/us-automakers-rules-auto-driving-cars-fatal-crashes

[Niall_Quinn]

Can you expand on these two points?



And, out of interest, what is your position on global warming, exactly?

Is it that it isn't happening? I mean, I'm mid 40s - although hurtling towards 50 with disconcerting speed. But there's a clear difference in the climate in this country since I was a kid. We used to get regular, deep snow. It's rare now. I remember when I'd go and see fireworks it was foot-numbingly cold. Now a light jacket will suffice. I'd suggest the fact that the climate has changed in the UK at least is pretty much undeniable.

Is it that you concede it's happening but you don't think it's caused by human action so there's no point in doing anything about it?
Or is it that you do think we are contributing to it but you don't think the counter-measures being suggested will help. Or you don't think it's going to cause big problems so it doesn't really matter?

Or none of the above in which case fill in your own answer.

I mean, it seems to me that it is happening. We are causing it, or certainly contributing. And it causing and will continue to cause problems.
So I'm generally on board with "we should probably do something". I'm less sure about what. And have to say when I've been to places like India I have thought "oh what's the bloody point?!". As Sean Lock said, doing a bit or recycling feels like turning up to the aftermath of an earthquake with a dustpan and brush.
But, like Covid, I do think there's a situation which demands a response.

I will (in fact I have, but I'll do it again). I can spend the odd 5 minutes here right now, maybe posting up an article or dealing with retards like Mac, but don't have the time for detailed responses. So next week. I owe you 2 posts.

[Letters]

:tiphat:

[Mac76]

I will (in fact I have, but I'll do it again). I can spend the odd 5 minutes here right now, maybe posting up an article or dealing with retards like Mac, but don't have the time for detailed responses. So next week. I owe you 2 posts.

ooh, ith thomebody upthet? :lol:

[Letters]

Now now, be nice :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

ooh, ith thomebody upthet? :lol:

By you, candy boy? Wouldn't have thought so.

[Mac76]

By you, candy boy? Wouldn't have thought so.

oh suuuuuuuuuuuure :rolleyes:

[Letters]

:lol: Well, that's good enough for me:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56926180

[Ollie the Optimist]

:lol: Well, that's good enough for me:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56926180

Honestly this is the stupidest story purely because it is such an own goal on Boris’ part.

I fully accept & agree that Prime Minsiters should be allowed to make the flat in Downing Street liveable for their needs and funds provided by the taxpayer. May had no children whereas Boris has a new born, i suspect things may need to change to make it safe for a new born etc and that is fair enough.

However, this story just angers me for the sheer stupidity of it. Why would you spend so much on fucking wallpaper for a place where you could be kicked out of in 24 hours time. It is not a permenant home, and bear in mind that PMs also stay at either Chequers or their own constituency homes at weekends so it is not like they live in Downing Street 24/7 (emergencies aside) so it just seems a complete waste of money.

There is no story here if boris just said we used the allowance provided but met the costs for the extra ourselves. No body would have any issue with that but they didnt. They tried to get donations and loans and that is the problem. It’s just so fucking stupid and could in theory cost him his premiership all because he can’t say no to his wife demanding expensive wallpaper

[Letters]

These people don't live in the real world. Which calls in to question how he can pretend to represent or empathise with those who do.
How do you help people who can't afford to buy food when your biggest concern in life is whether John Lewis furniture is posh enough?
:doh:

[Mac76]

These people don't live in the real world. Which calls in to question how he can pretend to represent or empathise with those who do.
How do you help people who can't afford to buy food when your biggest concern in life is whether John Lewis furniture is posh enough?
:doh:

all this has been known forever, e.g. back when he ran for London Mayor it was widely publicsed that he described the £250k a year he received for a newspaper column as 'chickenfeed'

but he's funny and has silly hair so it's ok, and so he gets to be prime minister, kill thousands through indecision on covid, wrecks the UK's economic future with his extremist EU policies and then people get upset about wallpaper - i''m not sure who's the most to blame here.... :shrug:

[Letters]

but he's funny and has silly hair so it's ok, and so he gets to be prime minister
:lol:

:ilt:

That is so depressingly accurate. He's basically admitted that it's all a bit of an act, but underneath it all he's a nasty piece of work and dangerously incompetent.

[WMUG]

https://twitter.com/HankTikTok/status/1388326717886976007

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MbJpTQD2Uk

I must admit, I can't see the angle. There's the obvious one, but surely not even the average Joe is ready to eat that? Whatever, it's ramping up and has been for several years. Is there already a concern that warmism isn't delivering as expected? Really don't know, will be interesting to see where this goes. And why has Fox News been chosen?

[Globalgunner]

The Democrat news networks wont touch it. They are too busy gushing over Biden and his 70% approval rating.

in truth you have to be an Ant deep below ground not to believe in Aliens. The vastness of the Universe is beyond our comprehension. How can humans be the only intelligent beings in all that space. We are barely beyond our former animal selves in our current development. We should only really fear a race that is close to our current level of technology that wants to take over this planet. If an advanced set of aliens wants to wage war on Earth it will be over in a matter of days.

Most likely these aliens are amused at us and are just taking the proverbial piss.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Democrat news networks wont touch it. They are too busy gushing over Biden and his 70% approval rating.

in truth you have to be an Ant deep below ground not to believe in Aliens. The vastness of the Universe is beyond our comprehension. How can humans be the only intelligent beings in all that space. We are barely beyond our former animal selves in our current development. We should only really fear a race that is close to our current level of technology that wants to take over this planet. If an advanced set of aliens wants to wage war on Earth it will be over in a matter of days.

Most likely these aliens are amused at us and are just taking the proverbial piss.

Oh well, on that level I agree. Unless mathematics is just wrong then there are countless civilisations in the infinity of space. But that doesn't have much to do with this developing primer. When the government announces they are going to release everything then that's a lie any thinking person can see through. So the question is, why tell such a transparent lie? It's fascinating. Do they now feel they have captured a majority that will believe literally anything they are told, provided it originates from an authoritarian source? Or is it a test to determine if they have reached that level, or to gauge how far away they are from the ideal?

I used to use alien invasion as hyperbole, the extreme. I'm trying to find new boundaries in this nut house. 911. Covid. Warmism. ET. What could possibly come after that stew of lunacy?

[Globalgunner]

Well there is now a new Space force. How can they justify spending 200billion or more if there is no perceived threat from space. The aliens are coming.

[Letters]

The aliens are coming.

Nah.

For start, we have no idea whether there is life out there at all, let alone life complex enough to explore the universe. I don’t accept it’s inevitable. The universe is pretty roomy, of course. Or, as someone cleverer than me put it:

“Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.”
- Douglas Adams

But if you look at the Drake equation, which seems like a pretty decent way of estimating how many civilisations there might be out there, most of the terms in it are unknown. We don’t know whether the universe is teeming with life, whether we are unique or at least extremely rare or whether it’s a miracle that even we exist.

But even if it’s the former, space is still big. And that means actually contacting one another much less visiting is most likely impossible.

It’s an interesting question, whether we are alone in the universe, but I’d suggest the answer is unknowable. And I don’t for one minute believe that we have been or are being visited by alien life.

[Globalgunner]

What you believe is your prerogative. Dinosaurs didnt believe in great big rocks thundering down from space either

[Letters]

If you are saying that there is no correlation between belief and truth then I agree.
But that means that your belief about this is no better or worse than mine.
But my point above, which you have offered no counter argument to, is that the actual truth about this is unknown and unknowable.