"Currants Bw..."

[HCZ_Reborn]

Seriously?

I mean I'm not even going there - it's that stupid.

What I want to know is why do you need a SOURCE to understand reality? Why do you have to be TOLD what you could use your own brain to figure out?

Are you incapable of reason?

Why do you need a "news" agency when you can just use your own eyes?

God damn - you people are fucking whipped, aren't you?


So it’s just a coincidence that you continuously regurgitate talking points that I see on Twitter from self-titled Edge lords all the time

Everything you “know” about the world comes from your own first hand experience?

I don’t know if your pretence of being rational and objective is intentional, but it’s certainly fucking hilarious

[HCZ_Reborn]

Stupid joke. Any decent barman would have blown the dirty chinks away with a shotgun.

And thats the PROPER way to be edgy, minus the coy.

I'll probably get censored for lending you a hand.

Of course what you have to ask yourself what was the point of that?

What humorous point are you making, other than the suggestion that a reclusive drink sodden conspiracy theorist might engage in violent fantasies.

To pre-empt any reply, no I don’t find your comment offensive. I just find it pointless

[Letters]

What I want to know is why do you need a SOURCE to understand reality? Why do you have to be TOLD what you could use your own brain to figure out?
Because you can't know everything that's going on first hand. Obviously you need to told things which you don't witness personally.
Equally obviously you need to consider the source - consider how truthful it is, what agenda and bias might they have?
That helps you make sense of the things you're told.
So, for example, when your friends and mine the BBC said that the Covid situation in India was getting pretty grim I cross checked with some colleagues in India who confirmed what they were saying.
It's not perfect, my colleagues can only speak from their experience. But it's the best I can do.


Are you incapable of reason?

Why do you need a "news" agency when you can just use your own eyes?

God damn - you people are fucking whipped, aren't you?

See, here's the problem. You set yourself up as the person around here who knows What's Going On.
You're the one who knows and understands the truth and knows what's really going on.
You're the one who can see through the information you're told and discern what's really going on.
But...your record is bloody awful. All the shit you posted about Covid. Some notable examples:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4687&page=333

Whatever's happened, they're gearing up for martial law. And the BBC will be right there telling us how safe we all are.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4687&page=332

The British armed forces are now on the street, in full kit, in Birmingham going door to door and asking residents if they want a Covid test.

Right now the tests are voluntary. That will change. This is to get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets. If they just need the bodies, why can't the troops be out in civvies? And why are they offering tests to people who haven't asked for them? I guess they need that "case" counter to keep on going up?

General curfews are not far away now, that's what the pub turnout is all about - which is why it makes no sense at all in terms of health. Curfews will require checkpoints. They've already tested (during the first outbreak) police stopping people and demanding to know why they are outside. In European countries citizens had to carry paperwork to justify being outside.

Citizen! Halt! Your papers please!

The nation is diving into people who can see what's happening and understand the implications, and those who... I really don't know. I don't know what it would take for some people to get this. Maybe fully uniformed Nazis stomping up and down the street shooting people and making lampshades out of granny?

Hands up who thinks full blown tyranny usually arrives on a Monday morning and goes full Joe Stalin by Monday night? And if it doesn't get done in a day, and is gradually phased in over time, is that still tyranny, or just a series of "reasonable" steps. To keep you safe?

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4687&page=334

You will be denied care by the NHS if refuse the vaccine.

Prediction, not fact yet. But all the available facts point to this.

You will also be denied travel, employment, the ability to socialise in public and your children may be denied education and / or taken into care.

Sounds ludicrous. Hopefully I'll have egg all over my face sometime down the road.

I won't though.


Martial law.
Army on the street.
Curfews.
Checkpoints.
The consequences of not taking the vaccine.

Did any of that happen? Well, did it? You get a partial credit on the last of those. MrsL's workplace did try and mandate their staff get the vaccine but that was quickly reversed when they realised it wasn't going to fly.
So, basically, none of the stuff you predicted happened.
And do you know why? Because you're not as good at interpreting data and information as you like to think. Your bias and paranoia about what "they" intend makes you see things which just aren't there. And that's what leads you to wrong conclusions. And the problem is you seem absolutely bloody terrible at introspection, admitting that you got these things wrong and considering why.

So here you are, 2 years after you posted all that shit about what was going to happen, still claiming you're the one that knows What's Going On despite the exact opposite of your predictions happening.
This is why people don't take your proclamations that seriously.

[Mac76]

Martial law.
Army on the street.
Curfews.
Checkpoints.
The consequences of not taking the vaccine.

Did any of that happen? Well, did it? You get a partial credit on the last of those. MrsL's workplace did try and mandate their staff get the vaccine but that was quickly reversed when they realised it wasn't going to fly.
So, basically, none of the stuff you predicted happened.
And do you know why? Because you're not as good at interpreting data and information as you like to think. Your bias and paranoia about what "they" intend makes you see things which just aren't there. And that's what leads you to wrong conclusions. And the problem is you seem absolutely bloody terrible at introspection, admitting that you got these things wrong and considering why.

So here you are, 2 years after you posted all that shit about what was going to happen, still claiming you're the one that knows What's Going On despite the exact opposite of your predictions happening.
This is why people don't take your proclamations that seriously.

I think that's game, set and match

[WMUG]

If you've ever wondered what it's like to be suicidal, I recommend getting a Megabus from Manchester to London during a train strike.

[Mac76]

If you've ever wondered what it's like to be suicidal, I recommend getting a Megabus from Manchester to London during a train strike.

was it the fellow passengers or just the soul-destroying nature of the M6? (my least favourite road)

[WMUG]

was it the fellow passengers or just the soul-destroying nature of the M6? (my least favourite road)

The latter.

Took us 2 hours to get south of Crewe.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If you've ever wondered what it's like to be suicidal, I recommend getting a Megabus from Manchester to London during a train strike.

I’m sure a good old singsong would’ve cheered everybody up!

[Letters]

Musk :pal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-your-money-64021412

[Mac76]

:lol:

[Mac76]

Terry Hall RIP... :rose:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64029430

[WMUG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yts2F44RqFw

This is a really interesting video and I think explains the difference between Letters' and NQ's ideas on morality, or at least, what NQ means when he talks about Letters being a fake Christian or whatever.

Letters usually argues from the consequentialist position (voting, watching the WC in Qatar, other issues I'm sure) and NQ seems to be in the "evil or not evil" camp.

(skip to 8:40 for the meat of it, but the whole thing's worth a watch)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Terry Hall RIP... :rose:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64029430

There’s a movement growing to get Ghost Town as Xmas number 1 which would be grimly appropriate

I can’t disassociate that song from the episode of Father Ted

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yts2F44RqFw

This is a really interesting video and I think explains the difference between Letters' and NQ's ideas on morality, or at least, what NQ means when he talks about Letters being a fake Christian or whatever.

Letters usually argues from the consequentialist position (voting, watching the WC in Qatar, other issues I'm sure) and NQ seems to be in the "evil or not evil" camp.

(skip to 8:40 for the meat of it, but the whole thing's worth a watch)

It’s not

The whole thing is a bit of a straw man argument

Plus liberal/left types are in no position to accuse anyone of thinking in binary terms

[Letters]

Letters usually argues from the consequentialist position (voting, watching the WC in Qatar, other issues I'm sure) and NQ seems to be in the "evil or not evil" camp.

Hmm. It is an interesting video. I'm not sure if I am a consequentialist. But I do think that things are rarely 100% "good" or "bad", there are almost always shades of grey and sometimes something which is supposed to be "bad" from a Christian viewpoint feels like the least bad option. NQ seems to take a far more black and white view of the world and if he thinks a thing is "bad" then any counter argument I present means he thinks I'm saying the thing is "good". That's how it comes across anyway. In reality I'm just pointing out out the shades of grey.

With Qatar, I would certainly agree that the World Cup shouldn't have been there. The way the stadiums were built, the clear corruption that led to it being awarded there in the first place. I hadn't planned to watch as much as I did - not because of any of the above really, just a vague feeling of a winter World Cup all being a bit weird and there being less of a buzz around the country than there usually would be ahead of a World Cup. In the end I did get into it and I enjoyed it. I just couldn't see what difference boycotting would make. The TV and sponsorship deals were in place and not contingent on viewing figures. HCZ made a decent point about how lower viewer figures may give TV and sponsors pause before paying money to show/sponsor future World Cups awarded in such circumstances. I just didn't feel I as an individual could make any difference. Had there been a co-ordinated and widespread effort then maybe I'd have felt different, but there wasn't one far as I could tell. If people wanted to boycott it then fine I guess, it feels like a futile gesture but if they thought it was the right thing to do then OK. I raise an eyebrow at any of them telling me what I or anyone else should do though. I did ask around at church and no-one there seemed to think boycotting was the "Christian" thing to do. I have seen some pretty reasonable arguments online asking if people boycotted the one in Russia 4 years ago. Their human rights record isn't exactly stellar. And are people planning on boycotting in 4 years given the US's numerous interventions overseas. Where's the line? :shrug:

When it comes to voting my argument is along the same lines as in the video. Someone is going to represent me in my area (well, they're supposed to). So voting is the only way I can influence that. NQ's issue there seems to be that he doesn't believe in government at all. But not believing in something doesn't mean it isn't real. So, again, not voting seems like a futile gesture. It doesn't affect the reality that someone is going to get into power.

NQ seems to object to authority in all forms - I think (although am not sure) it's part of his problem with me, what with me being Admin. But again, it's possible to think that government is bad - or rather our version of it is - and still believe the principle of government is probably the least bad way to get things done in a complex society. In NQ's mind the whole principle is bad - and that leads him to the paranoia we see above where he sees the Covid response as a march into authoritarianism, which is where he believes we are heading. I'm somewhat baffled that the fact that the exact opposite of his predictions happening doesn't give him pause. And he says I'm the one lacking self awareness :shrug:

[Mac76]

There’s a movement growing to get Ghost Town as Xmas number 1 which would be grimly appropriate


That would be great and wholly appropriate - how does an old CD-buying git like me mane that happen? Buy it somewhere on the interweb?

[Mac76]

Or there's this... :lol:

https://themanc.com/audio/christmas-number-one-the-****s-ladbaby-martin-lewis/

[Letters]

That link doesn’t seem to work

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course what you have to ask yourself what was the point of that?

What humorous point are you making, other than the suggestion that a reclusive drink sodden conspiracy theorist might engage in violent fantasies.

To pre-empt any reply, no I don’t find your comment offensive. I just find it pointless

Two emotional posts.

You are projecting onto me. I don't feel bitter or afraid.

You should deal with your own issues. Seriously. I can't be around as a sounding board on demand. In fact I am rarely here now. So you'll need to find a way to manage your problems without me as your crutch.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also, I don't have a Twatter account and nor will I ever. If I mimic "edge lords" then maybe these people are stating the obvious as I do. But doe that confirm a correlation? Sorry, but your latest stab is founded in coincidence rather than fact or even thought.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yts2F44RqFw

This is a really interesting video and I think explains the difference between Letters' and NQ's ideas on morality, or at least, what NQ means when he talks about Letters being a fake Christian or whatever.

Letters usually argues from the consequentialist position (voting, watching the WC in Qatar, other issues I'm sure) and NQ seems to be in the "evil or not evil" camp.

(skip to 8:40 for the meat of it, but the whole thing's worth a watch)

How is it interesting? beyond the extreme bias it conveys? Notice how the propagandist carefully creates a frame before he presents his "interesting" argument. Once you spot the elephant the interest quickly wanes. As for good and evil, that video doesn't touch on it. Evil is tangible. It's not just a concept. Concepts don't kill.

[Niall_Quinn]

I need to see the holes in your hands...

You are the person who stands on ice and hears it crack and groan and strain. But because you are still on ice, your paradigm is unshakable. You could have also searched for hundreds of other posts that constantly batter your world view. Or even posted the follow-up discussion to the one thread you hang to as some justification for your slavish devotion to the notion it will be alright, no matter hat happens. I smell your fear from hundred miles away. You bathe in it at close distance. Which is why you can't look a yard beyond the now to see what is unfolding.

It's interesting I said "reality" but you fell back on "information" that is handed down as fact. Which you then used as a straw-man. Accompanied by your groupies. You are all so safe in your welcomed ignorance. Or so you think. Or wish, Or hope.

Look back 50 yers. Compare to now. There's very little doubt who is providing the commentary on reality and who is denying it at all costs.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway, happy Christmas to you all. While it lasts.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Two emotional posts.

You are projecting onto me. I don't feel bitter or afraid.

You should deal with your own issues. Seriously. I can't be around as a sounding board on demand. In fact I am rarely here now. So you'll need to find a way to manage your problems without me as your crutch.

That’s interesting given I neither used the word bitter or afraid. I was literally asking you what the joke was, and assuming you weren’t being edgy for the sake of it, which would make you Frankie Boyle.

[Letters]

Oh DO piss off, LadBaby :rolleyes:

Although the singles chart is pretty much meaningless these days.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I can't say I ever really care(d) about the charts, but I can't help that nagging feeling of telling them to fuck the fuck off. Not that I even know who they really are. Just fuck off.

[Letters]

When I was a kid the charts were quite a big thing and the Christmas Number One was a coveted title. In the days of streaming people don’t really buy singles any more so it’s all become a bit of an irrelevance. LadBaby got Christmas Number One by selling 65,000 copies :lol:.

[Letters]

MC

[Mac76]

MC

Man City? This is an Arsenal board :shrug:

But yeah likewise, MC guys

[HCZ_Reborn]

Merry Christmas you detestable queers and degenerates

[GP]

A joyous gender-neutral time of celebrations to all

[Letters]

IT’s POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD!!!1!11!

[Niall_Quinn]

That’s interesting given I neither used the word bitter or afraid. I was literally asking you what the joke was, and assuming you weren’t being edgy for the sake of it, which would make you Frankie Boyle.

You protest too much. Against a bloke on the Internet. While I protest against governments and corporations. I wonder which is more productive?

What do you think?

[Niall_Quinn]

IT’s POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD!!!1!11!

SNAP!

Mind control, is wonderful.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh DO piss off, LadBaby :rolleyes:

Although the singles chart is pretty much meaningless these days.

It does beg the question - just how trivial are you? Or can't it be measured?

[Letters]

…and a happy new year :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

…and a happy new year :lol:

No, the same new year as the last one. Don't you get it yet?

[Niall_Quinn]

Just go back to biased refs and cut out the technical bias of VAR. At least you can have a go at the ref. But faceless cunts in a studio 100 miles away are hard to throw bottles at.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You protest too much. Against a bloke on the Internet. While I protest against governments and corporations. I wonder which is more productive?

What do you think?

You protest against governments and corporations on a football forum

I think our contribution to humanity is quite equally lacking truth be told

[LDG]

This forum is so shit :lol:

Thats why it’s still entertaining

[Niall_Quinn]

You protest against governments and corporations on a football forum

I think our contribution to humanity is quite equally lacking truth be told

No dude, you are my hobby, not my occupation.

[Letters]

This forum is so shit :lol:

Thats why it’s still entertaining
Like Spurs :d

[HCZ_Reborn]

No dude, you are my hobby, not my occupation.

If I had to guess, your occupation would be something tech related…where you are self employed, take up freelance work and have minimal communication with your customers other than negotiating a price for your services which are probably very specific (none of which is a criticism, just an observation)

I’d say you have the opportunity to make even more money, but often choose not to because you don't want to be too tied down to anything for any length of time.

[Letters]

You are the person who stands on ice and hears it crack and groan and strain. But because you are still on ice, your paradigm is unshakable.
No. You are the person who keeps saying that I or we are standing on ice and that you can hear it crack and groan.
All I see is solid ground beneath my feet. I keep asking you to show me the cracks and you're unable to.


You could have also searched for hundreds of other posts that constantly batter your world view.
As could you. Give me one example.
I mean, we could point to plenty of posts from you with various wild claims.
Plenty of cracks you point to and groans you could "hear"
I've posted some examples above. Didn't happen, did they? In fact, the complete opposite did.
During the worst of the Covid restrictions I kept stating that they were temporary measures designed to deal with "a situation".
(I also kept saying they were completely the wrong measures, but that's a different discussion)
You were the one wringing your hands about where it was heading - marshal law, army on the streets, curfews, checkpoints.
Who was right?
This is no longer a debate, have restrictions increased as you prophesied or have they been lifted?


Or even posted the follow-up discussion to the one thread you hang to as some justification for your slavish devotion to the notion it will be alright, no matter what happens.
Again, so could you. The conversation usually goes round in this circle:
I point out that your wild prophesies didn't come to pass.
You fail to acknowledge that and instead redirect the discussion to things like "the laws" the government passed while no-one was looking.
I then acknowledge that some aspects of those are of concern but say that my gut feeling is that they won't make as much difference as you think.
I occasionally go on to point out that mass protests are occurring. You know, one of the things that these laws potentially ban. I ask if the people protesting are being rounded up and put in prison. That question is usually ignored because you know what the answer is.
Rinse and repeat.


I smell your fear from hundred miles away. You bathe in it at close distance.
What fear? You're the one prophesying doom and gloom. You should be the one afraid. If I thought for one minute that all the stuff you predicted would happen then I would have been afraid, but none of that was ever going to happen, so what would I be afraid of? Literally the exact opposite did. Which is what I thought would happen. I'm not right about everything but it is abundantly clear we don't have a government who have any interest in controlling or oppressing us to the degree you imagine.


Which is why you can't look a yard beyond the now to see what is unfolding.
Yes. You keep claiming you are the one who can do that. You're the one who knows What's Going On
You're the one who knows what is unfolding.
But, again, your wild predictions just didn't happen. Which is why people around here don't take you particularly seriously.


It's interesting I said "reality" but you fell back on "information" that is handed down as fact. Which you then used as a straw-man. Accompanied by your groupies.
I don't know what any of that is supposed to mean.


You are all so safe in your welcomed ignorance. Or so you think. Or wish, Or hope.

Your misplaced confidence in your abilities to discern What's Going On despite your demonstrable record continues to baffle me.


Look back 50 yers. Compare to now. There's very little doubt who is providing the commentary on reality and who is denying it at all costs.

What are the differences over the last 50 years which you believe confirms your model of reality?

[Letters]

Have you heard about the Bird

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64108691

:(

:rose:

[GP]

Andrew Tate is a fanny

[Letters]

Andrew Tate is a fanny

https://i.ibb.co/Rg96QYS/Pizza-Family-Fortunes.jpg

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ratzinger is dead

Good, the cunt basically threatened to excommunicate people who cooperated with investigations into paedophile priests. Was far more concerned with the reputation of the church than actually the victims

[Letters]

Merry New Year!

[Mac76]

Likewise :)

2023 certainly won't be boring Arsenal-wise, we'll just have to see if it's good or bad :popcorn:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ratzinger is dead

Good, the cunt basically threatened to excommunicate people who cooperated with investigations into paedophile priests. Was far more concerned with the reputation of the church than actually the victims

A PR triumph!

[Letters]

Warmism :bow:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64158283

[Niall_Quinn]

Warmism :bow:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64158283

You just brush over the obvious lie as if it's not a lie at all. What a puppet.

Recent temperatures (as in within the last million years) are NOWHERE NEAR the record temps this planet has experienced. Don't you even know THAT MUCH? Just how ignorant are you? Exactly?

For instance, are you dumb enough to post up gibberish just because it's on the BBC?

Okay. So 2022. Max temp (which is a lie but we'll go with it because it's not particularly excessive) 40C. Min temp (verified) -12C.

Variance, 52C.

We are all still alive.

BUT...

If it becomes 53C we are all going to die.

Snap out of it, you gullible fool.

[Letters]

I remember when NQ used to be fun, and funny :(

NQ :rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

If I had to guess, your occupation would be something tech related…where you are self employed, take up freelance work and have minimal communication with your customers other than negotiating a price for your services which are probably very specific (none of which is a criticism, just an observation)

I’d say you have the opportunity to make even more money, but often choose not to because you don't want to be too tied down to anything for any length of time.

Very good.

I'm impressed at that.

You didn't precisely nail my motivation for not making more money (I used to make a lot of money), but close enough.

One thing though, I have extensive, direct contact with my clients. You can't do real business without that. If you try you will soon find out there are only 24 hours in a dy, no matter what you do or wish for.

[Niall_Quinn]

However, this year, I have decided to make an obscene amount of money. Because I know I'm going to need it.

And so will you. And everyone else.

But few will.

[Niall_Quinn]

I remember when NQ used to be fun, and funny :(

NQ :rose:

I don't remember when you used to be real.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also noticed you deflected basic logic with a character assassination. Because - it's you.

So lightweight I'm afraid the next breeze will do for you.

[Niall_Quinn]

So Tate was arrested because he managed to pierce the veil. He was saying shit that was obvious, if only you care to look. Which is not a sin in itself. But then he was DOING things that proved the point. Very dangerous to people who have a monopoly on corruption.

Obviously Tate is a mega-wanker. That's what make it work for hime. He openly says, if you want to be "successful" be like me. A mega-wanker. And he's right. And they know it. So they arrested him for doing what they do. Not what they say.

Petty criminal gets wasted by master criminals. It's an old story. Don't cut into their turf.

What I wonder is, what will it take to also bring the master criminals down?

[Niall_Quinn]

Lot's of people dead from the vaccine now, but it's not news. Kudos to the BBC and their fellow travellers. A 38x increase in vaccine related mortality is hard to hide, but they've managed it so far. Quite impressive. And, let's face it, it's only saps who are dying, so no harm no foul.

[Niall_Quinn]

McCarthy is being humiliated over and over again. But he'll still win. Even when people don't want him, they get him. DEMOCRACY! And there's your politics, and if you can't figure it out from there then fuck - dude! Really?

[Letters]

A 38x increase in vaccine related mortality is hard to hide, but they've managed it so far.
How do you know then?
What's your source for that stat?

[GP]

How do you know then?
What's your source for that stat?

Source: Trust me, bro.

[Niall_Quinn]

How do you know then?
What's your source for that stat?

Source? None. Reading of the official government yellow card data was all I did. You could do that too, if you weren't so determined to wait for an approved source to tell you what to think.

[Niall_Quinn]

Source: Trust me, bro.

Hilarious. Don't trust me, trust that guy with his dick up your hole. When did he ever lie to you?

[Letters]

Source? None.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens


Reading of the official government yellow card data was all I did. You could do that too, if you weren't so determined to wait for an approved source to tell you what to think.
How is "official government yellow card data" not an "approved source"? Your straw man of me is that I believe everything the government says. Sounds pretty approved to me. I based many of my thoughts on the pandemic on the government Covid data.

You started your post by saying you have no source and then immediately went on to tell us what the source is. :blink:
So OK, I had a look at this yellow card thing and before I looked at the data I saw this:


The Yellow Card scheme is a mechanism by which anybody can voluntarily report any suspected adverse reactions or side effects to the vaccine. It is very important to note that a Yellow Card report does not necessarily mean the vaccine caused that reaction or event. We ask for any suspicions to be reported, even if the reporter isn’t sure if it was caused by the vaccine. Reports to the scheme are known as suspected adverse drug reactions (ADRs).

Many suspected ADRs reported on a Yellow Card do not have any relation to the vaccine or medicine and it is often coincidental that symptoms occurred around the same time as vaccination. The reports are continually reviewed to detect possible new side effects that may require regulatory action, and to differentiate these from things that would have happened regardless of the vaccine or medicine being administered, for instance due to underlying or undiagnosed illness.

It is therefore important that the suspected ADRs described in this report are not interpreted as being proven side effects of COVID-19 vaccines.

(Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting )

My emphasis. So I'm not really sure there's much value in looking at the data. This is self-reported data, it's not irrelevant but just because someone reports that their 90 year old gran had the Covid vaccine and then died, that doesn't mean they died because they had the vaccine. Something something correlation something causation. Come on, dude, you know this stuff. So, in brief:

1) You haven't presented the data you looked at or explained how you came to your conclusions based on it.
2) You seem to have drawn conclusions from data when the explanation of it explicitly warns not to do that.
3) Why are you look at government data anyway? Throughout the pandemic you repeatedly claimed it was fake.

And it wasn't a character assassination above, nor was it a response to your post about the climate or any other specific post. It was more of a general observation about you.
You used to be one of the funniest posters on here, now your cynicism seems to have just turned into bile, paranoia and bitterness.

[Letters]

Also noticed you deflected basic logic with a character assassination. Because - it's you.
It wasn't really logic, it was a combination of straw manning and irrelevance.

The climate a million years ago and more is the irrelevant bit. There wasn't human civilization then. Yes, of course there have been times in the earth's history when the climate has been more extreme than now.
The difference this time is that we are around to experience it, and the climate change we are seeing right now is being driven by human activities and causing problems for human civilizations.
We aren't all still alive, people are dying as a result of extreme climate events, and literally no-one is saying we are all going to die if the earth continues to warm up (that's the straw man bit). But the fear is it will make the weather ever more extreme and that will lead to more people dying.
Actually, I looked into this and the number of people dying because of extreme weather has actually gone down, not because extreme events aren't happening more, they are, but because we have become better at dealing with them.

If you believe that the climate isn't changing then you're just not paying attention.
If you believe that human activities aren't driving or at least contributing to that then your argument is with climate scientists, not me.
If you believe that the effects of that change and consequences of it are being over-stated then that's a position I can get on board with. My overall feeling is that it is happening, there's nothing we can do about it - simply because dealing with it requires co-ordinated action from multiple governments and the political will just isn't there to make that happen. Will it affect me personally? Probably not. Will it affect a lot of other people? Fairly likely but see above about not being able to do anything about it.

[Niall_Quinn]

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens


How is "official government yellow card data" not an "approved source"? Your straw man of me is that I believe everything the government says. Sounds pretty approved to me. I based many of my thoughts on the pandemic on the government Covid data.

You started your post by saying you have no source and then immediately went on to tell us what the source is. :blink:
So OK, I had a look at this yellow card thing and before I looked at the data I saw this:



(Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting )

My emphasis. So I'm not really sure there's much value in looking at the data. This is self-reported data, it's not irrelevant but just because someone reports that their 90 year old gran had the Covid vaccine and then died, that doesn't mean they died because they had the vaccine. Something something correlation something causation. Come on, dude, you know this stuff. So, in brief:

1) You haven't presented the data you looked at or explained how you came to your conclusions based on it.
2) You seem to have drawn conclusions from data when the explanation of it explicitly warns not to do that.
3) Why are you look at government data anyway? Throughout the pandemic you repeatedly claimed it was fake.

And it wasn't a character assassination above, nor was it a response to your post about the climate or any other specific post. It was more of a general observation about you.
You used to be one of the funniest posters on here, now your cynicism seems to have just turned into bile, paranoia and bitterness.

LOL. It's entertaining, in a way. How you deliciously suck on that which I have provided. It meets your fastidiously indoctrinated standard, which I knew it would.

As for the data - it's simple maths.

Count everyone who died that received the money shot within 28 days of blessed departure. That gives you the amount of people killed by the vaccine. In the same way as we calculated Covid deaths during the good old days. Compare the mortality rate with the next most lethal vaccine and it's 38x higher.

Surely you can't refute this methodology, as it was the approved method of running the death porn daily on the BBC?

Then again, maybe you can have it both ways according to taste?

[Niall_Quinn]

It wasn't really logic, it was a combination of straw manning and irrelevance.

The climate a million years ago and more is the irrelevant bit. There wasn't human civilization then. Yes, of course there have been times in the earth's history when the climate has been more extreme than now.
The difference this time is that we are around to experience it, and the climate change we are seeing right now is being driven by human activities and causing problems for human civilizations.
We aren't all still alive, people are dying as a result of extreme climate events, and literally no-one is saying we are all going to die if the earth continues to warm up (that's the straw man bit). But the fear is it will make the weather ever more extreme and that will lead to more people dying.
Actually, I looked into this and the number of people dying because of extreme weather has actually gone down, not because extreme events aren't happening more, they are, but because we have become better at dealing with them.

If you believe that the climate isn't changing then you're just not paying attention.
If you believe that human activities aren't driving or at least contributing to that then your argument is with climate scientists, not me.
If you believe that the effects of that change and consequences of it are being over-stated then that's a position I can get on board with. My overall feeling is that it is happening, there's nothing we can do about it - simply because dealing with it requires co-ordinated action from multiple governments and the political will just isn't there to make that happen. Will it affect me personally? Probably not. Will it affect a lot of other people? Fairly likely but see above about not being able to do anything about it.

If you believe that the climate isn't changing then you're just not paying attention.

And I'm the straw man?

You people.

You base your fantasies on the very fact the climate changes. By 52C, as I pointed out. In ONE Year.

And then, when the indoctrinated pull you up on your fairy tales you claim THEY are the ones who deny climate change, as if climate change and man-made climate change are equivalent. They aren't. One is inevitable and the other is mere speculation based on a metaphorical cork bobbing in an ocean.

The blindingly obvious reality that we simply haven't been here long enough, on geological timescales, to affect anything at all entirely escapes warmist nutters. The millions years (a mere blink) is relevant. The carefully engineered and inverted hockey stick is of no consequence whatsoever.

The very fact you believe any of the warmist nonsense is in any way credible is bullet-proof conformation you know nothing about the subject. The same as the "climatologists" who are failed geologists. And their models that are necessary in a world where reality conflicts with their revenue streams.

To put your mind at rest - no, the world is not ending in 2012 or even in 2025 or 2030. Civilisation might well end on those two latter dates, but it will have nothing to do with actual nature and everything to do with human nature.

[Letters]

If you believe that the climate isn't changing then you're just not paying attention.

And I'm the straw man?
Do you know what "if" means?



The blindingly obvious reality that we simply haven't been here long enough, on geological timescales, to affect anything at all entirely escapes warmist nutters.
By "warmist nutters" you mean the vast majority of climate scientists. But I'm sure some bloke on YouTube knows better.
Again, your argument is with the experts, not me. :shrug:

[Letters]

As for the data - it's simple maths.
Cool. In that case show your workings.


Count everyone who died that received the money shot within 28 days of blessed departure. That gives you the amount of people killed by the vaccine. In the same way as we calculated Covid deaths during the good old days.
During which time you endlessly complained that they were inflating the numbers by counting everyone who'd had a recent positive test as a Covid death even when multiple other underlying conditions could have caused them.
Now it suits your agenda you're using the exact same method you previously said was flawed.


Compare the mortality rate with the next most lethal vaccine and it's 38x higher.
Surely you can't refute this methodology, as it was the approved method of running the death porn daily on the BBC?
It is you who refuted the methodology. Now you're using it because it suits your agenda.
The data I was looking at mostly was deaths per million compared with other countries and excess deaths over the expected average.
That's the thing which made me feel like there was "a situation", that and my conversation with some medical professionals working at the front line.

But, again, show your workings and I can have a look. Let's see where you got that 38x from. I suspect you won't.

[Niall_Quinn]

Cool. In that case show your workings.


During which time you endlessly complained that they were inflating the numbers by counting everyone who'd had a recent positive test as a Covid death even when multiple other underlying conditions could have caused them.
Now it suits your agenda you're using the exact same method you previously said was flawed.


It is you who refuted the methodology. Now you're using it because it suits your agenda.
The data I was looking at mostly was deaths per million compared with other countries and excess deaths over the expected average.
That's the thing which made me feel like there was "a situation", that and my conversation with some medical professionals working at the front line.

But, again, show your workings and I can have a look. Let's see where you got that 38x from. I suspect you won't.

OMFG. He really is this stupid. And I thought he was pretending.

Me :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Hey, Letters - QUESTION.

How many people died OF Covid between 2020 and 2022?

Watch this, everyone. It's going to be hilarious.

[Letters]

Hey, Letters - QUESTION.

How many people died OF Covid between 2020 and 2022?

You mean just from Covid, no underlying health conditions? I couldn't put a number on it but I suspect not that many in the grand scheme of things.
How do you think that's relevant? I told you the numbers I was looking at, excess deaths over the expected average.


Watch this, everyone. It's going to be hilarious.
Your ability to "read the room" is about as good as your abilities at analysing data and predicting the future...

[Letters]

Jeff Beck :rose:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64228780

[GP]

So there I am, in Sri Lanka, formerly Ceylon, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzy wouldn't go on stage that night. So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweets shop, eh. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big Bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopowner and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really. But, sure enough, I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.

[Mac76]

fax :rose:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-3/removing-fax-bt-and-kcom

[Letters]

Outlived Lisa-Marie Presley, to be fair.
How are they going to do deadline day now? Isn't that all about faxes flying around (something to do with them being legal in a way that other forms of communication aren't, or something)

[Mac76]

Outlived Lisa-Marie Presley, to be fair.
How are they going to do deadline day now? Isn't that all about faxes flying around (something to do with them being legal in a way that other forms of communication aren't, or something)

well, there's all kinds of ways of getting electronic encrypted signoff now (he says pretending he knows what he's talking about) so maybe that's how :shrug:

[Niall_Quinn]

So there I am, in Sri Lanka, formerly Ceylon, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzy wouldn't go on stage that night. So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweets shop, eh. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big Bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopowner and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really. But, sure enough, I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.

What the fuck are you on?

[Niall_Quinn]

You mean just from Covid, no underlying health conditions? I couldn't put a number on it but I suspect not that many in the grand scheme of things.
How do you think that's relevant? I told you the numbers I was looking at, excess deaths over the expected average.


Your ability to "read the room" is about as good as your abilities at analysing data and predicting the future...

YOU CAN put a number on it. Just like the Italians did, which I reported to you 2 yers ago.

But you WON'T because it would break re lines that prop up the fantasy you call your reality.

No point talking about this any more. You are lost.

[Niall_Quinn]

Outlived Lisa-Marie Presley

Fuck, the very definition of bad news.

Why You and not her?

Or was she. bitch too?

[Xhaka Can’t]

What the fuck are you on?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7kg5ZzDZo

That's not to say GP isn't on anything.

I still don't remember what I was supposed to do with the Hershey's Kiss.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Watched very grim footage of the Air Yeti Nepal internal passenger jet both from inside and outside the aircraft, inside was recorded on a mobile that continued to record presumably after its owner had perished (although just thinking about it if he had died, who would have accessed the video footage which was presumably saved to a cloud server)

[Letters]

YOU CAN put a number on it. Just like the Italians did, which I reported to you 2 yers ago.

But you WON'T because it would break re lines that prop up the fantasy you call your reality.
I "WON'T" because I don't know it. I've said it's a low number, if you have an exact number then feel free to post it.
But when you do so (obviously you won't) then also explain why the number is relevant.
I've told you the numbers I looked at which I would suggest are more relevant when assessing the severity of the situation.


No point talking about this any more. You are lost.
Army on the streets, checkpoints, curfews, martial law. People being denied basic rights if they refuse the vaccine.
But yes, it's definitely me who is "lost"...

I continue to be bemused that you never take one minute of introspection to reflect on all your wild predictions and consider why you were wrong about them. I mean, you were wrong, weren't you? That is no longer up for debate. And yet here you are 2 years later still confidently asserting that it's you who knows What's Going On

I know why you were wrong, do you?

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64302608

Well that'll teach him!

[Mac76]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64302608

Well that'll teach him!

well it's not the end of the story:

"Carrick pleaded guilty to six offences at Southwark Crown Court on Monday, and had already admitted 43 others in December.

He is due to be sentenced in February."

Knowing how (un)seriously the courts take these types of offences, assaulting all those women he'll get, ooooh maybe a suspended sentence even... :rolleyes:

[Letters]

well it's not the end of the story
I know. Seems pretty likely they'll throw the book at him. Just a weird headline, as though him being sacked was the punishment for being a serial rapist.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I know. Seems pretty likely they'll throw the book at him. Just a weird headline, as though him being sacked was the punishment for being a serial rapist.

I also hear Dennis Nilsen got sacked from the job centre

Bit of an irony there

[GP]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125721940299?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=3cHtWQvfQZG&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=medhsVH4Rii&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Just placed a bid

[Letters]

I bet myself a fiver that would be the Mr Blobby thing.
I won :d

[Letters]

Edit. Also, holy shit I just saw the current bid :doh:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Hang on a second!

I can’t wear it in public?

I’m out.

[Niall_Quinn]

I "WON'T" because I don't know it. I've said it's a low number, if you have an exact number then feel free to post it.
But when you do so (obviously you won't) then also explain why the number is relevant.
I've told you the numbers I looked at which I would suggest are more relevant when assessing the severity of the situation.


Army on the streets, checkpoints, curfews, martial law. People being denied basic rights if they refuse the vaccine.
But yes, it's definitely me who is "lost"...

I continue to be bemused that you never take one minute of introspection to reflect on all your wild predictions and consider why you were wrong about them. I mean, you were wrong, weren't you? That is no longer up for debate. And yet here you are 2 years later still confidently asserting that it's you who knows What's Going On

I know why you were wrong, do you?

LOL. What a wanker. "Bemused" because I told you were being lied to? "Bemused" because you can't think beyond one dimension? You normies are in the majority still, but that's changing. Slowly. I'm going to laugh my arse off when you do the "everyone knew that" thing.

[Letters]

"Bemused" because I told you were being lied to? "Bemused" because you can't think beyond one dimension?
No. Bemused because all your predictions have fallen flat and you haven't taken one moment to reflect on why that might be, or even admit you were wrong.
It's a bizarre mentality to confidently predict things on the basis that you're the one who knows What's Going On, and then when the exact opposite happens manage to maintain that unshakable confidence that you're the one who knows What's Going On. I guess introspection is hard.

"they're gearing up for martial law"
"Right now the tests are voluntary. That will change. This is to get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."
"General curfews are not far away now... Curfews will require checkpoints."
"You will be denied care by the NHS if refuse the vaccine. Prediction, not fact yet. But all the available facts point to this."
"You will also be denied travel, employment, the ability to socialise in public and your children may be denied education and / or taken into care. Sounds ludicrous. Hopefully I'll have egg all over my face sometime down the road. I won't though."

How's the egg?
You made all these hysterical predictions in October 2020. Since then all Covid restrictions in the UK have been removed. Even in Australia, which had far harsher restrictions than here, it's basically back to BAU now.

"Travellers do not require a pre-departure COVID-19 test to enter or transit Australia regardless of their COVID-19 vaccination status.
From 6 July 2022, proof of vaccination is no longer required for entry into Australia. All visa holders can travel to Australia, regardless of vaccination status."

So...y'know. Egg.


You normies are in the majority still, but that's changing.
Us "normies" kept telling you that the Covid restrictions were a temporary response to a situation. We were right, that is no longer something which can be debated.
And you're right, more and more people are subscribing to crazy conspiracy theories. That doesn't make them right. The internet has allowed a lot of crazy stuff to proliferate and people with certain mindsets lap it up. Doesn't make it correct.

As you're unable or unwilling to reflect and consider why you were wrong, I'll just tell you. It's because you're suspicious of authority to the point of paranoia. You think "they" are out to get us.
That's how you managed to listened to a perfectly cordial interview between some agents and a USPS worker and describe it as an interrogation, making all kinds of wild claims about it which were demonstrably untrue.
It's how you managed to read about the army helping out delivering tests and because they were in uniform leapt to conclusions like it was to "get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."

You were wrong because the underlying premise your conclusions were based on is wrong. They're not out to get you. And no, that doesn't mean they're bending over backwards to help you either. There's a huge middle ground between those two extreme positions and extreme positions are rarely correct.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No. Bemused because all your predictions have fallen flat and you haven't taken one moment to reflect on why that might be, or even admit you were wrong.
It's a bizarre mentality to confidently predict things on the basis that you're the one who knows What's Going On, and then when the exact opposite happens manage to maintain that unshakable confidence that you're the one who knows What's Going On. I guess introspection is hard.

"they're gearing up for martial law"
"Right now the tests are voluntary. That will change. This is to get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."
"General curfews are not far away now... Curfews will require checkpoints."
"You will be denied care by the NHS if refuse the vaccine. Prediction, not fact yet. But all the available facts point to this."
"You will also be denied travel, employment, the ability to socialise in public and your children may be denied education and / or taken into care. Sounds ludicrous. Hopefully I'll have egg all over my face sometime down the road. I won't though."

How's the egg?
You made all these hysterical predictions in October 2020. Since then all Covid restrictions in the UK have been removed. Even in Australia, which had far harsher restrictions than here, it's basically back to BAU now.

"Travellers do not require a pre-departure COVID-19 test to enter or transit Australia regardless of their COVID-19 vaccination status.
From 6 July 2022, proof of vaccination is no longer required for entry into Australia. All visa holders can travel to Australia, regardless of vaccination status."

So...y'know. Egg.


Us "normies" kept telling you that the Covid restrictions were a temporary response to a situation. We were right, that is no longer something which can be debated.
And you're right, more and more people are subscribing to crazy conspiracy theories. That doesn't make them right. The internet has allowed a lot of crazy stuff to proliferate and people with certain mindsets lap it up. Doesn't make it correct.

As you're unable or unwilling to reflect and consider why you were wrong, I'll just tell you. It's because you're suspicious of authority to the point of paranoia. You think "they" are out to get us.
That's how you managed to listened to a perfectly cordial interview between some agents and a USPS worker and describe it as an interrogation, making all kinds of wild claims about it which were demonstrably untrue.
It's how you managed to read about the army helping out delivering tests and because they were in uniform leapt to conclusions like it was to "get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."

You were wrong because the underlying premise your conclusions were based on is wrong. They're not out to get you. And no, that doesn't mean they're bending over backwards to help you either. There's a huge middle ground between those two extreme positions and extreme positions are rarely correct.

You spend a lot of time engaging with someone who is not going to give you an inch

Frankly I’m surprised he hasn’t started on the defibrillators yet

On one hand I am sympathetic to those who don’t believe the official narrative. I think what passes for the legacy media engendered a lot of mistrust over the past few years, partly because of poor journalism, partly because it showed no curiosity over the veracity of what it was reporting and has to a degree swallowed social justice ideology and partly because of partisan hackery. What used to be true for print media is now true for broadcast media in light of the birth of 24 hour news networks.
It was right equally to be skeptical of lockdowns, this was after all the largest over reach of government power in terms of our everyday freedoms since the Second World War. Where I disagree with NQ is that it was all part of a contrived plan when in fact it was arbitrary and chaotic (which doesn’t make it any better of course).

Much of the conspiracy narrative running currently though is garden variety contrarianism and spouting provable nonsense for clicks.

Questions need to be asked, take Covid for example….I’m still far from convinced it didn’t originate in a viral research laboratory and I do think it’s natural to be suspicious when media calls asking such questions racist (and speaks highly of the pervasive and pernicious influence the CCC has over the West). The CDC who really have gone some way to discredit themselves, comprehensively reject it even though they themselves were totally unsatisfied with China’s explanation over where it originated. For America to fund a gain of function viral research lab out of the country makes a lot of sense, but it’s high risk if it transpires that some dickhead working there didn’t follow decontamination procedures….it would also make US financially and legally responsible for the deaths that occurred globally.

Social Media means that people will firstly want their biases confirmed and secondly want information, but the failure of responsible journalism has put that process on steroids

[Niall_Quinn]

No. Bemused because all your predictions have fallen flat and you haven't taken one moment to reflect on why that might be, or even admit you were wrong.
It's a bizarre mentality to confidently predict things on the basis that you're the one who knows What's Going On, and then when the exact opposite happens manage to maintain that unshakable confidence that you're the one who knows What's Going On. I guess introspection is hard.

"they're gearing up for martial law"
"Right now the tests are voluntary. That will change. This is to get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."
"General curfews are not far away now... Curfews will require checkpoints."
"You will be denied care by the NHS if refuse the vaccine. Prediction, not fact yet. But all the available facts point to this."
"You will also be denied travel, employment, the ability to socialise in public and your children may be denied education and / or taken into care. Sounds ludicrous. Hopefully I'll have egg all over my face sometime down the road. I won't though."

How's the egg?
You made all these hysterical predictions in October 2020. Since then all Covid restrictions in the UK have been removed. Even in Australia, which had far harsher restrictions than here, it's basically back to BAU now.

"Travellers do not require a pre-departure COVID-19 test to enter or transit Australia regardless of their COVID-19 vaccination status.
From 6 July 2022, proof of vaccination is no longer required for entry into Australia. All visa holders can travel to Australia, regardless of vaccination status."

So...y'know. Egg.


Us "normies" kept telling you that the Covid restrictions were a temporary response to a situation. We were right, that is no longer something which can be debated.
And you're right, more and more people are subscribing to crazy conspiracy theories. That doesn't make them right. The internet has allowed a lot of crazy stuff to proliferate and people with certain mindsets lap it up. Doesn't make it correct.

As you're unable or unwilling to reflect and consider why you were wrong, I'll just tell you. It's because you're suspicious of authority to the point of paranoia. You think "they" are out to get us.
That's how you managed to listened to a perfectly cordial interview between some agents and a USPS worker and describe it as an interrogation, making all kinds of wild claims about it which were demonstrably untrue.
It's how you managed to read about the army helping out delivering tests and because they were in uniform leapt to conclusions like it was to "get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."

You were wrong because the underlying premise your conclusions were based on is wrong. They're not out to get you. And no, that doesn't mean they're bending over backwards to help you either. There's a huge middle ground between those two extreme positions and extreme positions are rarely correct.

You are a fool and proud of it. Just this week a major war criminal called for exactly what I'm talking about, at probably the most influential (in a corrupt way of course) forum on the planet. But see no evil, hear no evil, and unless you see the holes in the hands you can't bring yourself to recognise what's right under the holes in your nose. You won't understand what I meant by that, because you are a pretend Christian.

As I said, I'm looking forward to the "everyone knew that" moment. Well, what I mean is I'm looking forward to seeing how you attempt to wriggle out of it. Willing accomplices, such as yourself, have an endless capacity to reduce everything to a single dimension and then remove continuity, so life exists in a snapshot concurrent with each and every moment. You might call this living for the day. I call it being unaware of yesterday. If you think that equips you to deal with what's going on in the world, rest assured, you are in for a fatal awakening. An honest individual would look at every single indicator and be wary of the direction each is pointing. But a mental slave can simply tune into the BBC, listen to each carefully prepared excuse and wish it all away.

In Sweden, a nation which blows your Covid scam right out of the water, strange things are happening. Do you know what they are? In the Netherlands, those gun-toting troops that never happened are firing live rounds. And yet, you are equipped with such a degree of ignorance you have total self-belief in carrying the statist flag into battle against anyone who would draw your attention to the jaws closing around you?

As I always said, we need to get past people like you before we can even put up a fight. You'll be cursed in caves with fish scrawled on the walls, through all of history, if the outcome goes against humanity.

But we aren't going to lose. And you won't be welcome when the fighting has been done on your behalf.

[Niall_Quinn]

You spend a lot of time engaging with someone who is not going to give you an inch

Frankly I’m surprised he hasn’t started on the defibrillators yet

On one hand I am sympathetic to those who don’t believe the official narrative. I think what passes for the legacy media engendered a lot of mistrust over the past few years, partly because of poor journalism, partly because it showed no curiosity over the veracity of what it was reporting and has to a degree swallowed social justice ideology and partly because of partisan hackery. What used to be true for print media is now true for broadcast media in light of the birth of 24 hour news networks.
It was right equally to be skeptical of lockdowns, this was after all the largest over reach of government power in terms of our everyday freedoms since the Second World War. Where I disagree with NQ is that it was all part of a contrived plan when in fact it was arbitrary and chaotic (which doesn’t make it any better of course).

Much of the conspiracy narrative running currently though is garden variety contrarianism and spouting provable nonsense for clicks.

Questions need to be asked, take Covid for example….I’m still far from convinced it didn’t originate in a viral research laboratory and I do think it’s natural to be suspicious when media calls asking such questions racist (and speaks highly of the pervasive and pernicious influence the CCC has over the West). The CDC who really have gone some way to discredit themselves, comprehensively reject it even though they themselves were totally unsatisfied with China’s explanation over where it originated. For America to fund a gain of function viral research lab out of the country makes a lot of sense, but it’s high risk if it transpires that some dickhead working there didn’t follow decontamination procedures….it would also make US financially and legally responsible for the deaths that occurred globally.

Social Media means that people will firstly want their biases confirmed and secondly want information, but the failure of responsible journalism has put that process on steroids

You spend a lot of time sucking up to somebody who spends a lot of time "engaging" (seriously?) with somebody who doesn't tolerate evil. And you shouldn't. Because your IQ is about 50 times greater than that twat's. Attack me directly please. Don't go through a NPC.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You spend a lot of time sucking up to somebody who spends a lot of time "engaging" (seriously?) with somebody who doesn't tolerate evil. And you shouldn't. Because your IQ is about 50 times greater than that twat's. Attack me directly please. Don't go through a NPC.

You’re worse than I am with that Scottish prat. I think you’ve made a Petty Tyrant out of Letters, and all I would say is if you spoke to me the way you spoke to him and I was a mod here I’d boot you without a seconds thought. In absolutely the same way that you’d throw a guest to the curb who was being disrespectful in your home (as I would as well). I don’t engage with you because it’s time consuming, exhausting and because there’s little chance of either of us convincing the other. I don’t say it with any malice

[Niall_Quinn]

You’re worse than I am with that Scottish prat. I think you’ve made a Petty Tyrant out of Letters, and all I would say is if you spoke to me the way you spoke to him and I was a mod here I’d boot you without a seconds thought. In absolutely the same way that you’d throw a guest to the curb who was being disrespectful in your home (as I would as well). I don’t engage with you because it’s time consuming, exhausting and because there’s little chance of either of us convincing the other. I don’t say it with any malice

Yeah, but you're talking about if from a woke perspective where words on the interwebs are violence but vociferously assisting in the burning down of the society we all have to live in is perfectly reasonable. I'm cutting to the chase with Letters and his fellow travellers because I tried it the other way, but also because it's their decision to spurn the opportunity for actual debate. So I don't run the multi-paragraph attempts anymore because people have made a game of wasting the energy invested in it. I told you, he's dishonest at a fundamental level.

[Letters]

Just this week a major war criminal called for exactly what I'm talking about, at probably the most influential (in a corrupt way of course) forum on the planet.
OK. So provide a source for what you're talking about and I can have a look. But a person saying a thing in a forum is not the same as anything actually being implemented.
It's not the same as marshal law being in effect, which you said that they were "gearing up for" in October 2020. How long does that take?
You said curfews were "not far away now", again, October 2020. Maybe our definitions of "not far away" are different.
The exact opposite of all those predictions has happened. As I kept on telling you at the time, the Covid restrictions were temporary and designed to deal with the situation. As the situation changed so did the restrictions.
We can have a sensible conversation about whether they were the right measures to take, but the fact they were temporary is no longer a matter of debate.


But see no evil, hear no evil, and unless you see the holes in the hands you can't bring yourself to recognise what's right under the holes in your nose. You won't understand what I meant by that, because you are a pretend Christian.
John 20:25, innit. Fair enough, I did have to look up the exact reference but I suspect you wouldn't have known the exact chapter and verse either.
I'm a "pretend" Christian in the sense that I'm a work in progress, as we all are. Justification is a one off thing, Sanctification is a lifelong process - any real Christian knows that :)
How's yours going?


As I said, I'm looking forward to the "everyone knew that" moment. Well, what I mean is I'm looking forward to seeing how you attempt to wriggle out of it.
That would work so much better if you weren't spending much of your time in this exchange wriggling out of acknowledging how wrong you got things even though that is no longer a matter of debate.
People like you said that the Covid restrictions weren't ending. Well, guess what, they ended. Even in many countries who had far harsher lockdowns than we did in the UK.


Willing accomplices, such as yourself, have an endless capacity to reduce everything to a single dimension and then remove continuity, so life exists in a snapshot concurrent with each and every moment. You might call this living for the day. I call it being unaware of yesterday. If you think that equips you to deal with what's going on in the world, rest assured, you are in for a fatal awakening. An honest individual would look at every single indicator and be wary of the direction each is pointing. But a mental slave can simply tune into the BBC, listen to each carefully prepared excuse and wish it all away.
You keep talking about these "indicators" and claim there's a clear direction of travel but I'm just not seeing it. And your claim to be the one who can see these things so clearly is undermined by another October 2020 prediction when you said that "all the available facts point to" the unvaccinated being denied NHS treatment. You said they would be "denied travel, employment, the ability to socialise in public and your children may be denied education and / or taken into care.". You're not vaccinated, right? Do you still have your kids? Are they still at school? Yeah, thought so. So maybe your assessment of the "available facts" isn't as good as you think...

Dude, you're just wrong about this stuff. There's no debate about it, you were wrong and you've been shown to be wrong. I've even explained why you were wrong. It's because your underlying premise, of a government who are out to oppress and control us, is wrong. And in your mind anyone to tells you that must be slavishly obedient to authority. You can only think in black and white, as though only 2 possibilities exist. In reality there's a huge middle ground.
A healthy suspicion of authority is no bad thing, but you turn it up to 11 and that leads to you seeing sinister motives behind everything. That's how you got it so wrong about the USPS worker interview - the agents were "the authority" in that situation and authority is bad, so you heard an interrogation and made a load of claims about it which just aren't true if you listen to it. It's how you saw troops delivering tests and made the leap to mandatory tests and it being part of preparing us for the army on the streets with curfews and checkpoints.

These leaps are in your head - that's not a matter for debate. Are there curfews round your way because there's nothing here. When was your last mandatory test?


In Sweden, a nation which blows your Covid scam right out of the water, strange things are happening. Do you know what they are?
No, do go on.


In the Netherlands, those gun-toting troops that never happened are firing live rounds.
Again, feel free to elaborate. Are the army on the streets there? I have a mate in Amsterdam, I could ask her.
But you are goalpost moving - you noted that the soldiers were going door to door in Birmingham and said that it's to "get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."
Where are they?


And yet, you are equipped with such a degree of ignorance you have total self-belief in carrying the statist flag into battle against anyone who would draw your attention to the jaws closing around you?
I certainly don't have total self-belief. I think that attribute could be better applied to someone who made a load of hysterical predictions more than 2 years ago and then when the exact opposite happened continued to insist that they are the one who knows What's Going On.


As I always said, we need to get past people like you before we can even put up a fight. You'll be cursed in caves with fish scrawled on the walls, through all of history, if the outcome goes against humanity.
But we aren't going to lose. And you won't be welcome when the fighting has been done on your behalf.

Mmm. Except none of that is going to happen. You're the dude on the street corner with the "End of the world is nigh" sandwich board. But you keep having to cross out your predicted date and write a new one.
Maybe at some point you'll realise that you're not as good at predicting these things as you think, but given the numerous times I've pointed out your Covid predictions didn't come to pass and your constant doubling down, I'm not holding out too much hope.

[Letters]

I told you, he's dishonest at a fundamental level.
Do you think that someone who made a load of predictions more than 2 years ago and then failed to acknowledge that they got it all wrong, when they demonstrably did, would be described as honest? :)
Asking for a friend.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah, but you're talking about if from a woke perspective where words on the interwebs are violence but vociferously assisting in the burning down of the society we all have to live in is perfectly reasonable. I'm cutting to the chase with Letters and his fellow travellers because I tried it the other way, but also because it's their decision to spurn the opportunity for actual debate. So I don't run the multi-paragraph attempts anymore because people have made a game of wasting the energy invested in it. I told you, he's dishonest at a fundamental level.

No I don’t think you’re doing violence, I’m quite explicit in what I mean. But I equally don’t tolerate disrespect, and in my view (and that’s all it is) the personal animus adds nothing to your argument and knowing human nature as I do…why would I listen to someone who in pursuit of making a point needs to couch everything in insults. I’m going to assume that person is not worth my time.
It also tells me another thing about the individual making insults, they seem unable to regulate their emotions and behaviour ….possibly an assumption but it gives me no confidence that they are operating from a place of rationality

[Letters]

The decline in all its glory
GW posts per month, but I've also done a rolling 3 month average to smooth out bumps so the years are a bit rough

https://i.ibb.co/n7SXv7D/GWStats2011-2022.jpg

[HCZ_Reborn]

The decline in all its glory
GW posts per month, but I've also done a rolling 3 month average to smooth out bumps so the years are a bit rough

https://i.ibb.co/n7SXv7D/GWStats2011-2022.jpg

The fact is, this forum is a bit shit. And by that I mean it’s old and out of date.

It was of its time, a refugee Ark for people from 606. But it’s never really attracted new people has it…people have left and never been replenished with the new. The people that remain? Or even new(ish) people are just people like myself returning from a long self imposed sabbatical.

Now there’s actually nothing wrong with this place being a bit shit and old hat. People take comfort in the familiar…but it sure as shit isn’t going to generate a flurry of additional activity. This place is essentially propped up by people like me posting far too much :haha:

So the question is, is your chart just for show? Or are you actually looking to revitalise things ?.

[Xhaka Can’t]

There is no chance of this, or other forums being revitalised. This is an old farts medium. People rarely join forums like this. It’s just a place old people visit out of habit and even though there’s a lot of bitching by and about forum members, we are comfortable with that and quite like it.

We’ll eventually die out, but I hope like fuck that you’re first.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

And Maccy is still quicker than any stream :bow:

Except for when he falls asleep.

[Letters]

And Maccy is still quicker than any stream :bow:

Except for when he falls asleep.

The weekend threads are literally how I find out how things are going. He's a million times better than BBC. And you know how much I love the BBC ##

[HCZ_Reborn]

The weekend threads are literally how I find out how things are going. He's a million times better than BBC. And you know how much I love the BBC ##

Skysports website is at least thirty seconds quicker with goals than BBC

[HCZ_Reborn]

We’ll eventually die out, but I hope like fuck that you’re first.

“Thomas Jefferson lives” the last words of John Adams

Of course this wasn’t true, and Jefferson had died a few hours earlier. Telephone hadn’t been invented yet innit

[Letters]

The fact is, this forum is a bit shit. And by that I mean it’s old and out of date.
Screw you, and correct respectively. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with this forum, but the whole concept of forums is outmoded. These days twats like us argue about stuff like this on places like FB, not on messageboards. That said, there are plenty of boards out there bigger than this, so they still have a place and you only need one or two new regulars - or old people returning, like you did - to make a big difference.


So the question is, is your chart just for show? Or are you actually looking to revitalise things ?
I was just looking at the numbers for my own amusement really, I thought I'd share with the class in case anyone was interested.
I agree with Gary, I don't think revitalisation is possible. Or, at least, I don't have the get up and go to do it. Back in the day I did have grandiose plans for this place becoming more of an Arsenal site with news and so on, and the forum just being part of it. Never really had the motivation to make it happen - not really sure I have the ability to.
Part of me thinks it might be worth a push with some old members, a one off email now we're actually decent again trying to tempt people back. But I don't care that much.
This place will probably slowly die till it's just Maccy and me :lol:. Actually slightly surprised that hasn't already happened. But I don't think I care enough to do anything about it.
The days when I had "plans" for this place and enjoyed the moderate "fame" we enjoyed (we were quoted in a few London papers back in the day, when they used to scour boards like this for quotes) are long gone.

[The Wengerbabies]

Screw you, and correct respectively. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with this forum, but the whole concept of forums is outmoded. These days twats like us argue about stuff like this on places like FB, not on messageboards. That said, there are plenty of boards out there bigger than this, so they still have a place and you only need one or two new regulars - or old people returning, like you did - to make a big difference.


I was just looking at the numbers for my own amusement really, I thought I'd share with the class in case anyone was interested.
I agree with Gary, I don't think revitalisation is possible. Or, at least, I don't have the get up and go to do it. Back in the day I did have grandiose plans for this place becoming more of an Arsenal site with news and so on, and the forum just being part of it. Never really had the motivation to make it happen - not really sure I have the ability to.
Part of me thinks it might be worth a push with some old members, a one off email now we're actually decent again trying to tempt people back. But I don't care that much.
This place will probably slowly die till it's just Maccy and me :lol:. Actually slightly surprised that hasn't already happened. But I don't think I care enough to do anything about it.
The days when I had "plans" for this place and enjoyed the moderate "fame" we enjoyed (we were quoted in a few London papers back in the day, when they used to scour boards like this for quotes) are long gone.


Didn't you steal this place from Gooner Joel?

I'm still waiting to become a mod tbh, then this place will improve.

[Niall_Quinn]

OK. So provide a source for what you're talking about and I can have a look. But a person saying a thing in a forum is not the same as anything actually being implemented.
It's not the same as marshal law being in effect, which you said that they were "gearing up for" in October 2020. How long does that take?
You said curfews were "not far away now", again, October 2020. Maybe our definitions of "not far away" are different.
The exact opposite of all those predictions has happened. As I kept on telling you at the time, the Covid restrictions were temporary and designed to deal with the situation. As the situation changed so did the restrictions.
We can have a sensible conversation about whether they were the right measures to take, but the fact they were temporary is no longer a matter of debate.


John 20:25, innit. Fair enough, I did have to look up the exact reference but I suspect you wouldn't have known the exact chapter and verse either.
I'm a "pretend" Christian in the sense that I'm a work in progress, as we all are. Justification is a one off thing, Sanctification is a lifelong process - any real Christian knows that :)
How's yours going?


That would work so much better if you weren't spending much of your time in this exchange wriggling out of acknowledging how wrong you got things even though that is no longer a matter of debate.
People like you said that the Covid restrictions weren't ending. Well, guess what, they ended. Even in many countries who had far harsher lockdowns than we did in the UK.


You keep talking about these "indicators" and claim there's a clear direction of travel but I'm just not seeing it. And your claim to be the one who can see these things so clearly is undermined by another October 2020 prediction when you said that "all the available facts point to" the unvaccinated being denied NHS treatment. You said they would be "denied travel, employment, the ability to socialise in public and your children may be denied education and / or taken into care.". You're not vaccinated, right? Do you still have your kids? Are they still at school? Yeah, thought so. So maybe your assessment of the "available facts" isn't as good as you think...

Dude, you're just wrong about this stuff. There's no debate about it, you were wrong and you've been shown to be wrong. I've even explained why you were wrong. It's because your underlying premise, of a government who are out to oppress and control us, is wrong. And in your mind anyone to tells you that must be slavishly obedient to authority. You can only think in black and white, as though only 2 possibilities exist. In reality there's a huge middle ground.
A healthy suspicion of authority is no bad thing, but you turn it up to 11 and that leads to you seeing sinister motives behind everything. That's how you got it so wrong about the USPS worker interview - the agents were "the authority" in that situation and authority is bad, so you heard an interrogation and made a load of claims about it which just aren't true if you listen to it. It's how you saw troops delivering tests and made the leap to mandatory tests and it being part of preparing us for the army on the streets with curfews and checkpoints.

These leaps are in your head - that's not a matter for debate. Are there curfews round your way because there's nothing here. When was your last mandatory test?


No, do go on.


Again, feel free to elaborate. Are the army on the streets there? I have a mate in Amsterdam, I could ask her.
But you are goalpost moving - you noted that the soldiers were going door to door in Birmingham and said that it's to "get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets."
Where are they?


I certainly don't have total self-belief. I think that attribute could be better applied to someone who made a load of hysterical predictions more than 2 years ago and then when the exact opposite happened continued to insist that they are the one who knows What's Going On.



Mmm. Except none of that is going to happen. You're the dude on the street corner with the "End of the world is nigh" sandwich board. But you keep having to cross out your predicted date and write a new one.
Maybe at some point you'll realise that you're not as good at predicting these things as you think, but given the numerous times I've pointed out your Covid predictions didn't come to pass and your constant doubling down, I'm not holding out too much hope.

Completely ignored.

[Niall_Quinn]

No I don’t think you’re doing violence, I’m quite explicit in what I mean. But I equally don’t tolerate disrespect, and in my view (and that’s all it is) the personal animus adds nothing to your argument and knowing human nature as I do…why would I listen to someone who in pursuit of making a point needs to couch everything in insults. I’m going to assume that person is not worth my time.
It also tells me another thing about the individual making insults, they seem unable to regulate their emotions and behaviour ….possibly an assumption but it gives me no confidence that they are operating from a place of rationality

Erm, respect is earned dude, it's not a right. It's like the lack of respect you are showing me right now, when you claim I've only ever presented an argument in insults. You know that's not true. You are the primary example of piss taking at the length of my posts when I try to have a decent conversation. You can't have it both ways, or maybe you can in millennial clown-world. You need to reorganise your thinking so you can become coherent and consistent.

[Letters]

Didn't you steal this place from Gooner Joel?
:lol: Well…sort of. But not deliberately.
He started the place, I joined as one of the 606 refugees.
He made me mod because I’m so sensible and clever. Then he made me admin as back then I used to do more technical stuff and was conversant enough with HTML and JavaScript to do stuff (remember the floaty menu? :lol:)
Then at some point he left - I can’t begin to remember why which sort of left me as the de facto owner of the place. I think technically the domain might still be registered to Joel’s wife or something, but it’s registered to my email address so I’m the de facto owner, for what that’s worth.

[Letters]

Completely ignored.

Yeah, introspection is hard isn’t it?
:console:

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, introspection is hard isn’t it?
:console:

It's easy. For me. Impossible for you because of what you are.

Though if you are trying to substitute introspection for shithousery and think I'll fall for that, well that's an insult. Which is fine, because I haven't held back with you. No harm, no foul.

[Niall_Quinn]

It seems the vaccine was designed to target 20-44 year olds. Surprising. I thought they'd be trying to wipe out the elderly. But it kind of makes sense on a longer term because the elderly will die anyway.

What I don't get is if they are seriously frightened by population growth or not. Maybe they are so locked in their bubble they actually believe an insignificant effect on the planet is, in fact, existential. It's probably the interbreeding though.

[Mac76]

. It's probably the interbreeding though.

What, you mean the reason you have such stupid views?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Erm, respect is earned dude, it's not a right. It's like the lack of respect you are showing me right now, when you claim I've only ever presented an argument in insults. You know that's not true. You are the primary example of piss taking at the length of my posts when I try to have a decent conversation. You can't have it both ways, or maybe you can in millennial clown-world. You need to reorganise your thinking so you can become coherent and consistent.

I’m not pisstaking, I’m telling you…I don’t have the time or inclination to read your multi paragraph posts, I’m not mocking you for writing them I’m just suggesting you might be better saving how ever long it takes for you to construct them. However what I do understand is that it’s hypocrisy on my part when I’m prone to long posts myself, but if I’m honest with myself it’s largely for my own benefit as I like to get my thoughts down in writing.

My argument in respect of how you regard Letters is that he has it in his power to remove you from this site, and it’s a power I would exercise in his position were I a mod and you’d spoken to me the way you’d spoken to him. Which no doubt in your view is justified, but to me just as I say seems overly aggressive, adds nothing to your argument and apart from anything else why should I go out of my way to earn the respect of someone who throws insults at me. It’s beyond me why he even responds to you, I insult that Scottish fella but in reality he’s the smart one (despite his quixotic political and footballing opinions) for refusing to engage.

Plus ultimately what’s your end game here? Do you have any sincere hope of Letters agreeing with your point of view (I fail to see why you’d care unless his failure to acquiesce is another key stone towards legalising Paedophilia…now just for the exclusion of doubt that is me taking the piss). It feels like a lot of unnecessary energy expended on requiring us to see the rightness of your truth telling.

If you believe nay know what you’re saying is fact, of what matter is it that you’re the only one here that knows it

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m not pisstaking, I’m telling you…I don’t have the time or inclination to read your multi paragraph posts, I’m not mocking you for writing them I’m just suggesting you might be better saving how ever long it takes for you to construct them. However what I do understand is that it’s hypocrisy on my part when I’m prone to long posts myself, but if I’m honest with myself it’s largely for my own benefit as I like to get my thoughts down in writing.

My argument in respect of how you regard Letters is that he has it in his power to remove you from this site, and it’s a power I would exercise in his position were I a mod and you’d spoken to me the way you’d spoken to him. Which no doubt in your view is justified, but to me just as I say seems overly aggressive, adds nothing to your argument and apart from anything else why should I go out of my way to earn the respect of someone who throws insults at me. It’s beyond me why he even responds to you, I insult that Scottish fella but in reality he’s the smart one (despite his quixotic political and footballing opinions) for refusing to engage.

Plus ultimately what’s your end game here? Do you have any sincere hope of Letters agreeing with your point of view (I fail to see why you’d care unless his failure to acquiesce is another key stone towards legalising Paedophilia…now just for the exclusion of doubt that is me taking the piss). It feels like a lot of unnecessary energy expended on requiring us to see the rightness of your truth telling.

If you believe nay know what you’re saying is fact, of what matter is it that you’re the only one here that knows it

My end game is my start game. If I, and a few others, don't interject then it's all on rails. Non-thinkers are not, by default, unintelligent. It's possible they could be sparked back into thought. I don't, for a second, believe I can turn the mob. But maybe I can sow seeds that enable the mob to turn themselves and then celebrate their triumph. As I say, I can't wait to be told by Letters, "I told you so", as he recites my argument back to me verbatim.

But wind it forward. I'm not playing his game any more. So there's nothing for you to worry about. My mistake - engaging with him at all. But I'll rest easy, come the day, when I know I tried another way when only the inevitable way was realistic. Still a waste of my time though, I'll hold my hands up to that. And as for you equating his "power" to ban me from an internet forum to the actual topics we discussed, I don't get it. So what if he did ban me? Are the points I raised suddenly less valid? Yeah, sure, it'd be easier for him. But don't forget, he has an act to uphold. Having people come in and advocate on his behalf is the exact payoff he's seeking. He gets to do all his shit but come out smelling of the roses you are planting.

In the end time will tell all. But don't forget who warned you and never forget who told you all was well and there's nothing to worry about. Good vs evil.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My end game is my start game. If I, and a few others, don't interject then it's all on rails. Non-thinkers are not, by default, unintelligent. It's possible they could be sparked back into thought. I don't, for a second, believe I can turn the mob. But maybe I can sow seeds that enable the mob to turn themselves and then celebrate their triumph. As I say, I can't wait to be told by Letters, "I told you so", as he recites my argument back to me verbatim.

But wind it forward. I'm not playing his game any more. So there's nothing for you to worry about. My mistake - engaging with him at all. But I'll rest easy, come the day, when I know I tried another way when only the inevitable way was realistic. Still a waste of my time though, I'll hold my hands up to that. And as for you equating his "power" to ban me from an internet forum to the actual topics we discussed, I don't get it. So what if he did ban me? Are the points I raised suddenly less valid? Yeah, sure, it'd be easier for him. But don't forget, he has an act to uphold. Having people come in and advocate on his behalf is the exact payoff he's seeking. He gets to do all his shit but come out smelling of the roses you are planting.

In the end time will tell all. But don't forget who warned you and never forget who told you all was well and there's nothing to worry about. Good vs evil.

I can’t help but feel the art of persuasion eludes you

It seems to me that if you didn’t want to come here you wouldn’t, ergo if you were banned you wouldn’t be able to come here. Would that consequence be large to you? Quite probably not but given you come here of your own volition I’m assuming given the choice of being able to use this site or not being able to use this site you might chose the former.

But then again it may seem to you that the condition for you remaining might prove too high a price (no longer being able to be rude to someone that it appears only to you to be the most effective way of communicating with them)

Now it’s been ten or so years since you graced us with your truth, do you feel you’ve made any headway.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can’t help but feel the art of persuasion eludes you

It seems to me that if you didn’t want to come here you wouldn’t, ergo if you were banned you wouldn’t be able to come here. Would that consequence be large to you? Quite probably not but given you come here of your own volition I’m assuming given the choice of being able to use this site or not being able to use this site you might chose the former.

But then again it may seem to you that the condition for you remaining might prove too high a price (no longer being able to be rude to someone that it appears only to you to be the most effective way of communicating with them)

Now it’s been ten or so years since you graced us with your truth, do you feel you’ve made any headway.

Yes, a massive amount. Bear in mind, these drones wouldn't have argued vociferously in defence of tyranny if somebody hadn't brought it up. They would have just meandered on. You have to plant a seed to grow something. These people have talked bout stuff they would never have dreamed of talking about. You've seen Letters defend PCR "tests" FFS. Come on now, is he ever going to be pushed to that if everyone is just nodding along?

I come here once every couple of months dude. Your point is painfully stretched but you are determined to hang on to it. This is a hangover from a time when life was better. Same faces, very different circumstance, most participants well an truly exposed since covid. I pop in much in the same way as I;d pause to examine a tank full of fish. Might even feed the bastards. But I'm not going to spend all day at it.

[Niall_Quinn]

TLDR; Nostalgia

[The Wengerbabies]

:lol: Well…sort of. But not deliberately.
He started the place, I joined as one of the 606 refugees.
He made me mod because I’m so sensible and clever. Then he made me admin as back then I used to do more technical stuff and was conversant enough with HTML and JavaScript to do stuff (remember the floaty menu? :lol:)
Then at some point he left - I can’t begin to remember why which sort of left me as the de facto owner of the place. I think technically the domain might still be registered to Joel’s wife or something, but it’s registered to my email address so I’m the de facto owner, for what that’s worth.

Don't I remember him being pissed when he found out you moved the site here from invision?

[Letters]

Don't I remember him being pissed when he found out you moved the site here from invision?

I don’t know what you remember! :lol:
I don’t remember that, I thought he was long gone by then.
I don’t even remember why he left.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes, a massive amount. Bear in mind, these drones wouldn't have argued vociferously in defence of tyranny if somebody hadn't brought it up. They would have just meandered on. You have to plant a seed to grow something. These people have talked bout stuff they would never have dreamed of talking about. You've seen Letters defend PCR "tests" FFS. Come on now, is he ever going to be pushed to that if everyone is just nodding along?

I come here once every couple of months dude. Your point is painfully stretched but you are determined to hang on to it. This is a hangover from a time when life was better. Same faces, very different circumstance, most participants well an truly exposed since covid. I pop in much in the same way as I;d pause to examine a tank full of fish. Might even feed the bastards. But I'm not going to spend all day at it.

I would be fascinated to know how many people who come here feel that you’ve influenced their outlook at all.

It’s not exactly like you’re an invisible guiding hand are you, so if people came under your influence they’d be pretty aware of it.

[Letters]

It's easy. For me.
OK, well demonstrate it then. Just saying you're good at something isn't good enough.
I've pointed out all the things you got wrong in October 2020. Multiple times. Not once have you taken a moment to acknowledge you were wrong or consider why.
I've even explained why you were wrong.
And yet here you are more than 2 years later with the army not on our streets and marshall law not in effect - y'know, the thing they were "gearing up for" in October 2020.
No checkpoints, no curfews, no vaccine mandates. And yet here you are still doubling down, insisting you're the one who knows What's Going On and claiming you find introspection easy? :lol:
Alright, dude...


Impossible for you because of what you are.
You don't know what or who I am :lol:.
You repeatedly demonstrate on here how poor you are at discerning things.
You're terrible at analysing data (the Yellow Card stuff, which literally says on the bottle not to use it for the purposes you used it for).
You make predictions based on what the "available facts" point to. When those predictions fall flat you fail to acknowledge it rather than considering you might not be as good as you think at discerning what the available facts are and drawing conclusions from them.
And you say stuff about me and others which just isn't true. A recent example, the "lol, ur thick" you did indirectly via HCZ. I mean, that's not true and I know it's not true because IQ is measurable.

And here's the difference between us, or one of them. Early in the pandemic I did some analysis of our death stats compared with Italy. You picked me up on it, pointing out I hadn't accounted for population size. You were correct, so I acknowledged that and updated my analysis accordingly. Compare and contrast when I pick you up on the Yellow Card stuff - you didn't show your workings but you made claims based on it when the introduction explicitly says not to do this. And you don't give an inch, you just double down. And you have the temerity to call me dishonest. :lol:

You seem to be one of those people who has a rock solid, but misplaced, confidence in your abilities. I've worked with people like that.
One of our Polish team tried to use Event Sourcing for a purpose it really isn't meant for. I was sceptical, but I generally am about stuff I find new and scary. The rest of the team wanted to try it so fine, I conceded.
It was a car crash. He was very clever, but not very pragmatic. Afterwards I heard he was going round at Polish seminars talking about the experience and saying what a success it had been. The reality is we basically had to rip everything he'd done up and start again because it just didn't work. Yet there he was going round saying how well it had all gone. My gut feel from your posts is you're a bit like that, but that level of self confidence is quite intoxicating so you've probably done quite well out of it.
I may be wrong of course, but that's the sense I get.

Again, the reason you're wrong about this stuff is because of your biases and worldview which verges on the paranoid. You claim you find introspection easy, but I see no evidence of you doing any.

[Letters]

It’s beyond me why he even responds to you
There's a few reasons.
Firstly, this place is one of the things I do when slacking at work, so there's that.
Secondly, I don't like to see bullshit go unchallenged.
The insults, well they just make him look silly, not me.

[Letters]

It seems the vaccine was designed to target 20-44 year olds.
I wonder how it knows how old someone is.

[IBK]

Screw you, and correct respectively. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with this forum, but the whole concept of forums is outmoded. These days twats like us argue about stuff like this on places like FB, not on messageboards. That said, there are plenty of boards out there bigger than this, so they still have a place and you only need one or two new regulars - or old people returning, like you did - to make a big difference.

Yep - reckon you're right. I think a major issue is that you can't really use the site on your phone - which basically means that 90% of the potential traffic is lost.

Personally, I like the old school forum style (and using a keyboard), and while I use social media occasionally and WhatsApp all the time I wouldn't use it for debating. The Times comment section can be quite good - but its a different experience.

Still, old habits die hard...

[Letters]

.Yep - reckon you're right. I think a major issue is that you can't really use the site on your phone
Isn't that what Tapatalk does? Make stuff like this work well on Mobile?
I do use this site on my phone quite a lot actually, but I agree it's not that good an experience, particularly if you're trying to write a longer message.

[HCZ_Reborn]

.

Yep - reckon you're right. I think a major issue is that you can't really use the site on your phone - which basically means that 90% of the potential traffic is lost.

Personally, I like the old school forum style (and using a keyboard), and while I use social media occasionally and WhatsApp all the time I wouldn't use it for debating. The Times comment section can be quite good - but its a different experience.

Still, old habits die hard...

I actually do use this on my phone, the only issue with doing so is that you can’t upload images easily from it

What makes this place refreshing is that there’s no one who is outraged all the time. And that I think would appeal to a lot of people. I do like the fact that we are all middle aged farts, I for one notice more grey hair accumulating every time I go to the barbers.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I remember going to the barbers for a haircut.

I’d get my haircut.

Now I get a haircut, my eyebrows trimmed and my earlobes shaved.

I suppose it’s better value for money.

[HCZ_Reborn]

People getting all tied up in knots over the whole Isla Bryson thing

I think it’s quite simple, if this Raping animal regards himself as a woman…that should be respected

But if he’s now a she, he will have no use for his Johnson so we should invite his victims to remove it for him

[Niall_Quinn]

Compare and contrast when I pick you up on the Yellow Card stuff - you didn't show your workings but you made claims based on it when the introduction explicitly says not to do this.

I was going to stick with ignoring you but the above is priceless. It shows you in your full glory. As is becoming more frequent, I'm not 100% sure if you are serious or simply a product of your "measurable" IQ.

If you can't figure out (even though I told you) I used the Yellow Card data as a tool to make a nonsense of the Covid death toll you salivated over for 2 years (you ran a mile from that one) then I'm sorry for you. Or appalled. Maybe both.

But if you can figure it out, that means you've proved every point I ever made about you. And the way you layer patience and reasonableness on top of the blatant dishonesty - incredible. I used the very same criteria to analyse the Yellow Card data as you and your media and your corrupt state and corporations used to scare the shit out of the planet. You swallowed it whole, but now you've lost your appetite when your own lies are used to magic up something you don't want to be true?

So now, when I mention Project Veritas for example, you can simply copy and paste, "LOL, remember when you were wrong about the Yellow Card data?!" Like I said, priceless. You won't have to be so obvious with the army on the street (happened, obviously because it provoked the whole topic), curfews (happened - ask Canadians), mandates (happened - ask the NHS, sportsmen who are dropping dead, care workers) - though not on YOUR street, which was the debate was about. Thomas.

So you see now why I call you out for posing as a Christian? As you say, bullshit shouldn't go unchallenged.

You think if you lie enough everyone else will believe it, and I know how important that is to you. But, I wonder, do you think I'll eventually believe it?

Anyway, stop. It's saving a lot of time ignoring you so don't ruin it.

[Letters]

I used the Yellow Card data as a tool to make a nonsense of the Covid death toll you salivated over for 2 years (you ran a mile from that one)
I didn't run anywhere. I've explained many times that yes, while early on in the pandemic I was looking at the death toll and in particular deaths per million, after a while I was looking at excess deaths.
But you can keep pretending I haven't explained that if it makes you feel better.


blatant dishonesty - incredible.
Again, do you think one would describe someone as honest who made a load of hysterical predictions in October 2020 and then, when the exact opposite of their predictions happened, refused to acknowledge it or consider why they got things so wrong? Is that someone being honest? Is that someone who finds introspection "easy"?


I used the very same criteria to analyse the Yellow Card data as you and your media and your corrupt state and corporations used to scare the shit out of the planet.
No you didn't. For one thing, you're comparing death and hospitalisation data - which come from actual records - with self reported data which comes with a big health warning.


So now, when I mention Project Veritas for example, you can simply copy and paste, "LOL, remember when you were wrong about the Yellow Card data?!"
No. I'd say:
Project Veritas? :haha:. They're the ones who fed you those lies about the USPS dude, lies you "swallowed whole". Then your biases led you to listen to the recording of the interview and make all kinds of wild claims about it which just weren't true. Remember when you said the dude was secretly recording when in fact he told them he was recording and they let him continue? :lol:. Or when you said they pressured him into changing his story when in fact they just read the statement your beloved Project Veritas had prepared for him and he agreed he couldn't stand by it? Dear me.

And I see you're still pretending you were right about things you were demonstrably wrong about:


army on the street (happened, obviously because it provoked the whole topic)
They were "on the street" delivering tests in Birmingham. You said the fact they were doing so in uniform to "get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets". :lol:
Well where are they then?


curfews (happened - askCanadians),
Nice try but you're goalpost shifting, you were talking about the UK, you said "our" streets. And are the curfews still in place in Canada? Well? :)


mandates (happened - ask the NHS, sportsmen who are dropping dead, care workers)
Firstly, sportsmen dropping dead, that's another piece of misinformation you've fallen for:
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/medical-critical-thinking/young-athletes-dying-vaccines-thats-hoax
But whatever suits your narrative, I guess.

As I said right at the start of this, you get a partial credit for this one. Yes, MrsL's old workplace did try and mandate people have the vaccine.
One of her old colleagues told them to sod off and left. They have since asked her colleague back having quietly dropped the mandate, realising it wouldn't fly.

And I note you've quietly ignored all the other things I pointed out. Marshall law, which "they" were "gearing up for" in October 2020. The consequences for people not getting vaccinated. How's the egg?
Even you can't twist things enough to pretend those things happened.


So you see now why I call you out for posing as a Christian?
I think it's because you don't understand what being a Christian is.


You think if you lie enough everyone else will believe it, and I know how important that is to you.
Once again demonstrating how little you know about what I "think" :lol:


But, I wonder, do you think I'll eventually believe it?
I've come to the conclusion that you are too far gone. Your recent posts about paedophilia becoming legal and the vaccine targeting certain age groups - as thought the vaccine knows how old someone is - shows your paranoia makes rational thought impossible for you. Mix it with a dose of Dunning Kruger and a big slice of Cognitive Dissonance and this is what you get.
But I'm not posting for you. It would be nice if you took a moment to reflect on the things you got wrong and why you got them wrong, I think it would do you good. But you have shown yourself incapable of that. I'm mostly picking you up on this stuff so other people don't fall down the conspiracy theory rabbit holes you've fallen down. Because it hasn't landed you in a good place.


Anyway, stop. It's saving a lot of time ignoring you so don't ruin it.
I'll post what I like, you do the same. Ignore, don't ignore, up to you. :tiphat:

[Xhaka Can’t]

This is all riveting.

[LDG]

This is all riveting.

Reverting is the word you’re looking for

[LDG]

I remember going to the barbers for a haircut.

I’d get my haircut.

Now I get a haircut, my eyebrows trimmed and my earlobes shaved.

I suppose it’s better value for money.

Given 50% of the cut is yer eyebrows, it is indeed good value

[Letters]

This is all riveting.

It's either this or doing work, so... :shrug:

[Letters]

:cool:

I fought the law and...I won :cool:

The twats good people at the HMRC fined me £100 for not doing my tax return in time.
But I DID do it in time, the system gave me a reference number and everything. But for whatever reason it didn't go through on their system so then I got a fine :angry:
So I called them to explain, the bloke said to put it all in writing. Nothing.
So I called again to ask what had happened, I also asked why they hadn't chased up the fine. They hadn't received the appeal and they'd taken the fine out of my account as I was in credit, the cheeky fuckers so and so's.
When I did my return this year I mentioned it again in the "any other comments" section. Got a letter today saying they've accepted the appeal and returned the money.

:cool:

[Mac76]

Nice :good:

[Letters]

Not actually sure if I need to do the Self-Assessment thing actually. A couple of mates have questioned that.
I think I do because I claim Child Benefit, but I could well be wrong.
Meh. Whatever!

[WMUG]

bloody hell that reminds me

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nice :good:

https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/welcome-to-jazz-club-fast-show-the-fast-show-nice-jazz-club-gif-15971012

[HCZ_Reborn]

So many of these people killed or injured by Cop stories that we get imported over here, come loaded with the kind of context that we don’t get. There’s very few that are unequivocal.

Tyre Nichols video is totally fucked up, this is a savage beating of a kind that looks pre-meditated. It’s not losing your shit in a tense situation…it’s holding up someone who has already gone limp so your colleague can bash him in the chops after already kicking him in the face and ribs when he’s on the floor.

Not interested in any race narrative (although the usual moral gatekeepers love to ignore black on black crime :haha:)

But these guys killed someone, straight up killed them…not in self defence….not overreacting in a tense situation and forgetting their training. Cold blooded murder…doubt it will be tried as first degree murder but it should be. If I was a relative of that guy, I’d want all five of those cunts to get the chair (still an available method of punishment in Tenessese…just ask Daryl Holton…oh wait you can’t he died…in the electric chair)

[Niall_Quinn]

It's so amazing how you guys just naturally gravitate to the media message of the day. I know the thread is "Currents", but there are so, so many currents that could be discussed. And yet, it's only ever front page news. And yet you claim you aren't brainwashed. While all the evidence proves otherwise.

I don't even suppose you know why #thelatestthing is front page news, as opposed to - say - the Pfizer thing.

Injustice is the NORM. Cherry picking injustice to be selectively outraged is a miserable existence played out at the whim of puppeteers.

[Niall_Quinn]

:cool:

I fought the law and...I won :cool:

The twats good people at the HMRC fined me £100 for not doing my tax return in time.
But I DID do it in time, the system gave me a reference number and everything. But for whatever reason it didn't go through on their system so then I got a fine :angry:
So I called them to explain, the bloke said to put it all in writing. Nothing.
So I called again to ask what had happened, I also asked why they hadn't chased up the fine. They hadn't received the appeal and they'd taken the fine out of my account as I was in credit, the cheeky fuckers so and so's.
When I did my return this year I mentioned it again in the "any other comments" section. Got a letter today saying they've accepted the appeal and returned the money.

:cool:

What a hero. A thug came and demanded a lot of money and you bravely stood up and said, what if I give you 99% of the demand?

And you WON!

Jeez, I want to be like you.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nice :good:

I think you missed a drop.

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn't run anywhere. I've explained many times that yes, while early on in the pandemic I was looking at the death toll and in particular deaths per million, after a while I was looking at excess deaths.
But you can keep pretending I haven't explained that if it makes you feel better.


Again, do you think one would describe someone as honest who made a load of hysterical predictions in October 2020 and then, when the exact opposite of their predictions happened, refused to acknowledge it or consider why they got things so wrong? Is that someone being honest? Is that someone who finds introspection "easy"?


No you didn't. For one thing, you're comparing death and hospitalisation data - which come from actual records - with self reported data which comes with a big health warning.


No. I'd say:
Project Veritas? :haha:. They're the ones who fed you those lies about the USPS dude, lies you "swallowed whole". Then your biases led you to listen to the recording of the interview and make all kinds of wild claims about it which just weren't true. Remember when you said the dude was secretly recording when in fact he told them he was recording and they let him continue? :lol:. Or when you said they pressured him into changing his story when in fact they just read the statement your beloved Project Veritas had prepared for him and he agreed he couldn't stand by it? Dear me.

And I see you're still pretending you were right about things you were demonstrably wrong about:


They were "on the street" delivering tests in Birmingham. You said the fact they were doing so in uniform to "get us used to the presence of military forces on our streets". :lol:
Well where are they then?


Nice try but you're goalpost shifting, you were talking about the UK, you said "our" streets. And are the curfews still in place in Canada? Well? :)


Firstly, sportsmen dropping dead, that's another piece of misinformation you've fallen for:
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/medical-critical-thinking/young-athletes-dying-vaccines-thats-hoax
But whatever suits your narrative, I guess.

As I said right at the start of this, you get a partial credit for this one. Yes, MrsL's old workplace did try and mandate people have the vaccine.
One of her old colleagues told them to sod off and left. They have since asked her colleague back having quietly dropped the mandate, realising it wouldn't fly.

And I note you've quietly ignored all the other things I pointed out. Marshall law, which "they" were "gearing up for" in October 2020. The consequences for people not getting vaccinated. How's the egg?
Even you can't twist things enough to pretend those things happened.


I think it's because you don't understand what being a Christian is.


Once again demonstrating how little you know about what I "think" :lol:


I've come to the conclusion that you are too far gone. Your recent posts about paedophilia becoming legal and the vaccine targeting certain age groups - as thought the vaccine knows how old someone is - shows your paranoia makes rational thought impossible for you. Mix it with a dose of Dunning Kruger and a big slice of Cognitive Dissonance and this is what you get.
But I'm not posting for you. It would be nice if you took a moment to reflect on the things you got wrong and why you got them wrong, I think it would do you good. But you have shown yourself incapable of that. I'm mostly picking you up on this stuff so other people don't fall down the conspiracy theory rabbit holes you've fallen down. Because it hasn't landed you in a good place.


I'll post what I like, you do the same. Ignore, don't ignore, up to you. :tiphat:

Okay. I don't have time for it. But I'm prepared to teach you how to be a moral human being, right here on this thread. But first you have to admit you have a problem. I'm not joking. If you can find it within yourself to admit "your" worldview may be mistaken - bit may also be true - all I'm asking is you question it for a moment, I'll help you live up to the claim of Christianity you wear. This is not a trick. I'll teach you about principles and ethics and morality and basic humanity, all the things you have substituted away - like so many other people. Not because you set out to do it as a plan, but because you found it easier as life progressed.

There is a way back.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also, in answer to your bullshit, the government released a report about Covid recently. Look it up. It tells you everything you ever wanted to know. Sorry, no "source". That's the whole point. You have to be inquisitive and unbiased in the first place.

If you do find it, I'll discuss it with you.

If you can't be bothered then I understand. Same old.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If someone describes themselves as being funny, what are your immediate thoughts regarding them?

[Niall_Quinn]

If someone describes themselves as being funny, what are your immediate thoughts regarding them?

Don't know, is it Bill Hicks or Tommy Cooper or George Carlin or that queer fuck on the BBC who thinks he's a comedian, or just some normal bloke on the street? Depends.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Just some normal people, not professional comedians, put it that way.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just some normal people, not professional comedians, put it that way.

Well I guess funny can mean several different things. If they are trying to persuade you they are naturally humorous then engage them in conversation and see if your sides split. Probably not. If they are trying to tell you they are "funny" fucked up in some way then if you can help them, help them.

Generally though, try to avoid people in the first place. Then the problem doesn't come up.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The last bit I can get behind.

[Letters]

If someone describes themselves as being funny, what are your immediate thoughts regarding them?
I guess I'd have to talk to them and find out if they actually are or if they're just deluded.
It would be less of a red flag to me than someone describing themselves as "wacky". Ugh. Avoid.

[Letters]

Also, in answer to your bullshit, the government released a report about Covid recently. Look it up. It tells you everything you ever wanted to know. Sorry, no "source". That's the whole point. You have to be inquisitive and unbiased in the first place.

If you do find it, I'll discuss it with you.

If you can't be bothered then I understand. Same old.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/coronavirus/inquiries-and-reports/

:shrug:

Come on, dude, throw me a bone. There's a bunch of reports on there. How am I supposed to know which one you're talking about, if it's any of those.

[Letters]

I don't have time for it. But I'm prepared to teach you how to be a moral human being, right here on this thread.
I'm not convinced you have the ability to, but OK, I'm willing to listen.


But first you have to admit you have a problem. I'm not joking. If you can find it within yourself to admit "your" worldview may be mistaken - bit may also be true - all I'm asking is you question it for a moment
Of course my worldview may be mistaken. In fact, it almost certainly is. It seems pretty unlikely that I'm right about everything.
I know for one thing that I tend to be too willing to think the best of people. Contrary to your belief about me, I'm not a liar and people who routinely lie confuse me. I tend to assume people are mostly honest which is often not correct. So I can certainly be wrong about that. But I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong about everything.

The test of a good model is whether it can explain things and make good predictions.
My model of reality told me that the Covid response was a temporary response to "a situation". My evidence of that was that the response kept changing as the situation did, and it was based on my underlying belief/worldview is that while the government are flawed, they're not hell-bent on oppression and control. Most of the time they more or less let us get on with things. They have no interest in stopping you hugging your elderly relatives or dancing at your sister's wedding, they don't care if you go down the pub or go clubbing. The government then banned all these things. So either:

1) My worldview is completely wrong and the government are interested in a level of oppression and control I didn't think we'd ever see in this country or
2) They were temporary measures designed to deal with the situation.

We can debate whether the measures were the right ones, but I'm talking about the motivation for them.
Since the Covid situation was always going to be temporary - pandemics never last for ever - I always believed that the measures were temporary and would be removed when the situation allowed. And...they were. So that gives me some confidence in my worldview.

Your worldview led you to believe that the measures were here to stay and were only going to get worse. But that just didn't happen.
All the posts I've quoted are from October 2020. So maybe you were having a bit of a wobble back then. I think we all had one at some point in the pandemic. Mine was quite early on in the pandemic, and I did struggle a bit with Christmas being cancelled so close to the date and the lockdown early in 2021. But every time I point out all the things you predicted back then, things which demonstrably didn't happen, you just deflect from it or twist events which happened in other countries to claim that's what you were talking about. We'd have a more sensible discussion it you just acknowledged that you got those things wrong.
Which doesn't mean your entire worldview has to be wrong, but you were wrong about the specifics of what they were going to do in this situation.


I'll help you live up to the claim of Christianity you wear. This is not a trick. I'll teach you about principles and ethics and morality and basic humanity, all the things you have substituted away - like so many other people. Not because you set out to do it as a plan, but because you found it easier as life progressed.

There is a way back.

I do think there's things you can teach me - you are certainly much better read than me on history and politics.
I continue to raise an eyebrow that you are the authority on this, but I'm certainly willing to hear what you have to say.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If someone describes themselves as being funny, what are your immediate thoughts regarding them?

No one who describes themselves any way is actually that thing

“I’m a good guy” = I reacted to a girl who didn’t want a second date by calling her an ugly bitch and to go kill herself. That’s just a randomly plucked example by the way I’ve not done that, though I did tell a girl who decided to get back with her ex that her artwork was shit (although said out of spite, it genuinely was fucking terrible).

“I’ve got a great sense of humour” = I signed an online petition to get a comedian who’s joke I found offensive to be sacked from whatever gig they were on

And so forth

I can describe myself as tall because that’s just an irrefutable fact. But in terms of personality characteristics I’ll leave it to other people to make up their minds

[Letters]

No one who describes themselves any way is actually that thing
I don't think that's true. Some people have a better handle on their traits than others.
I mean, with funny - when you tell jokes people either laugh or they don't, so you can measure that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think that's true. Some people have a better handle on their traits than others.
I mean, with funny - when you tell jokes people either laugh or they don't, so you can measure that.


But There’s a difference between saying I’m a hard worker and I’m funny

One is something you can objectively prove the other is just paying yourself a compliment

If someone says I’m honest, I'm hard working etc it’s a bit things you write on a CV but yeah it’s something you can measure yourself

I’m funny, im a good person?….no fuck off you’re neither because if you were either of these things you wouldn’t need to tell me.

I try to make people laugh, I try to live a good life and be kind…..that I can accept

[Letters]

Funny is easier to measure than "good person". You surely know if you tell jokes in company and people laugh.
Obviously there are people - as parodied by the David Brent character - who think they're funny but the jokes actually fall flat or people are laughing at the person.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Funny is easier to measure than "good person". You surely know if you tell jokes in company and people laugh.
Obviously there are people - as parodied by the David Brent character - who think they're funny but the jokes actually fall flat or people are laughing at the person.

I think the opposite, humour is totally subjective for a start. There are actions that are objectively good…like if you rescued a kid from a frozen lake, you wouldn’t need to assert that you were good…people would think you were a good person. Unless you were like a John Bindon and had chucked them in the lake to begin with

Both being good and being funny are qualities people ascribe to others not to themselves. I’ve never heard a comedian describe themselves as funny and it’s their job to make you laugh. They might recognise they have a talent but they don’t explicitly say “I’m funny” - it’s weird

[Letters]

Hmm. You make a pretty good point about funny. I mean, Mrs Brown's Boys I'd suggest is objectively not funny. But I'm clearly wrong about that because there it is on BBC1 and it's deemed worthy of a Christmas Special ffs.
I think I'm known for being a bit funny amid folk at church but I wouldn't be packing them in at The Apollo. And I can't write jokes for toffees, but I can tell them reasonably well. But yeah, I guess I wouldn't say I'm funny per se, but I can be in certain contexts.

Good chat :good:

Oh, and again, anyone who describes themselves as "wacky" or "a character" needs stabbing in the face.
The sort of people who say "what am I like!!". A twat mate, that's what you're like.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If someone describes themselves as being funny, what are your immediate thoughts regarding them?

First thing that springs to mind is ILT.

That cunt thought he was funny because he reposted shit off the internet.

People describing themselves as funny tend to be as accurate as those who describe themselves as ‘cool’.

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6PrwbG3vT0

[Letters]

https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/30/mr-blobby-costume-buyer-backs-out-of-62000-sale-an-hour-after-winning-18190876/

Good news! Mr Blobby could still be yours!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Thanks for the replies, confirmed what I already thought!

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not convinced you have the ability to, but OK, I'm willing to listen.


Of course my worldview may be mistaken. In fact, it almost certainly is. It seems pretty unlikely that I'm right about everything.
I know for one thing that I tend to be too willing to think the best of people. Contrary to your belief about me, I'm not a liar and people who routinely lie confuse me. I tend to assume people are mostly honest which is often not correct. So I can certainly be wrong about that. But I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong about everything.

The test of a good model is whether it can explain things and make good predictions.
My model of reality told me that the Covid response was a temporary response to "a situation". My evidence of that was that the response kept changing as the situation did, and it was based on my underlying belief/worldview is that while the government are flawed, they're not hell-bent on oppression and control. Most of the time they more or less let us get on with things. They have no interest in stopping you hugging your elderly relatives or dancing at your sister's wedding, they don't care if you go down the pub or go clubbing. The government then banned all these things. So either:

1) My worldview is completely wrong and the government are interested in a level of oppression and control I didn't think we'd ever see in this country or
2) They were temporary measures designed to deal with the situation.

We can debate whether the measures were the right ones, but I'm talking about the motivation for them.
Since the Covid situation was always going to be temporary - pandemics never last for ever - I always believed that the measures were temporary and would be removed when the situation allowed. And...they were. So that gives me some confidence in my worldview.

Your worldview led you to believe that the measures were here to stay and were only going to get worse. But that just didn't happen.
All the posts I've quoted are from October 2020. So maybe you were having a bit of a wobble back then. I think we all had one at some point in the pandemic. Mine was quite early on in the pandemic, and I did struggle a bit with Christmas being cancelled so close to the date and the lockdown early in 2021. But every time I point out all the things you predicted back then, things which demonstrably didn't happen, you just deflect from it or twist events which happened in other countries to claim that's what you were talking about. We'd have a more sensible discussion it you just acknowledged that you got those things wrong.
Which doesn't mean your entire worldview has to be wrong, but you were wrong about the specifics of what they were going to do in this situation.



I do think there's things you can teach me - you are certainly much better read than me on history and politics.
I continue to raise an eyebrow that you are the authority on this, but I'm certainly willing to hear what you have to say.

I'm done with it now. Things have taken a turn for the worse and we are in very serious trouble now. There's only time for people who can do things to do things. Pray to God they do. And that's not me or you, so no point talking any more.

[Niall_Quinn]

The cunts are going to send fighter jets to Ukraine.

JUST SO THEY CAN MAKE MONEY.

It's beyond all belief. I hope you all realise what this means and will take steps accordingly.

[Niall_Quinn]

But There’s a difference between saying I’m a hard worker and I’m funny

One is something you can objectively prove the other is just paying yourself a compliment

If someone says I’m honest, I'm hard working etc it’s a bit things you write on a CV but yeah it’s something you can measure yourself

I’m funny, im a good person?….no fuck off you’re neither because if you were either of these things you wouldn’t need to tell me.

I try to make people laugh, I try to live a good life and be kind…..that I can accept

You are more depressed than me, aren't you?

[Niall_Quinn]

Pfizer has been busted for the vaccine - even the left wing media is scuttling to take a position. (Who the fuck woke them up?) Now we know what government is, what a corporation is and what the establishment is. As if we didn't know already.

The economy is done. German banks are being propped up by a printing press that's blowing steam and causing evacuations.

The Pfizer scandal is interesting because intelligent people (yes, they still exist) have been triggered to look back at the great banking scam of 2007/8. Before that, the WMD scam. Before that, 911 - where it all kicked-off in earnest.

A picture is forming, covering the sky. And only the most wilfully blind (the voting majority) continue to struggle to see it. Well, they see it. But that doesn't mean they can't be propagandised out of seeing it.

The west has collapsed. But it will take time to go through it.

And the viciousness, ungodliness and barbarism of the east is on the rise once again.

Ably assisted by the woke fucks and other morons in the west who ushered it in with a warm and lovingly disguised authoritarian embrace.

You'll fucking miss it when it's gone. That's for sure.

What a fucking shame. England. The greatest, most just, most egalitarian nation to ever exist - overrun by savages. And we didn't even put up a fight.

[IBK]

Pfizer has been busted for the vaccine - even the left wing media is scuttling to take a position. (Who the fuck woke them up?) Now we know what government is, what a corporation is and what the establishment is. As if we didn't know already.

The economy is done. German banks are being propped up by a printing press that's blowing steam and causing evacuations.

The Pfizer scandal is interesting because intelligent people (yes, they still exist) have been triggered to look back at the great banking scam of 2007/8. Before that, the WMD scam. Before that, 911 - where it all kicked-off in earnest.

A picture is forming, covering the sky. And only the most wilfully blind (the voting majority) continue to struggle to see it. Well, they see it. But that doesn't mean they can't be propagandised out of seeing it.

The west has collapsed. But it will take time to go through it.

And the viciousness, ungodliness and barbarism of the east is on the rise once again.

Ably assisted by the woke fucks and other morons in the west who ushered it in with a warm and lovingly disguised authoritarian embrace.

You'll fucking miss it when it's gone. That's for sure.

What a fucking shame. England. The greatest, most just, most egalitarian nation to ever exist - overrun by savages. And we didn't even put up a fight.

Funny, but I agree that western 'democracy' is dying. If people look at the span of human history rather than the past 50 or 100 years, it was ever thus. The greatest 'civilized' empire the world has seen - the Roman Empire - eventually succumbed to corruption and decay, and so will the West. I think we need to look at human nature rather than its constructs - and innate selfishness; short-termism and failure to learn lessons will out...

[Letters]

Funny, but I agree that western 'democracy' is dying. If people look at the span of human history rather than the past 50 or 100 years, it was ever thus. The greatest 'civilized' empire the world has seen - the Roman Empire - eventually succumbed to corruption and decay, and so will the West. I think we need to look at human nature rather than its constructs - and innate selfishness; short-termism and failure to learn lessons will out...

Out of interest, what do you think will replace it then?

[Mac76]

Out of interest, what do you think will replace it then?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q31WY0Aobro

[IBK]

Out of interest, what do you think will replace it then?

Increasing authoritarianism...whether internal or imposed by an outside entity. The other alternative is revolution - but often revolution leads to the same result - see the French or Russian revolutions....

[HCZ_Reborn]

Mason Greenwood had all charges against him dropped for assault and attempted rape which was kind of bang to rights on

Still though probably shouldn’t say too much given TP is a bit rapey as well

[Letters]

Increasing authoritarianism...whether internal or imposed by an outside entity. The other alternative is revolution - but often revolution leads to the same result - see the French or Russian revolutions....

You'll be unsurprised to hear I don't really see that happening.
I just don't see a clear direction of travel towards authoritarianism. And I would note that the people who scoff at that are the ones who saw the Covid restrictions as a land grab on our rights. Multiple people on here said that the restrictions were here to stay. That was never going to happen. They were clearly a response to "a situation". The wrong response, sure, but a response nonetheless. As the situation changed, so did the restrictions. And while it did feel at times like it would go on forever, we are past all that now and it's back to BAU. I just don't see what freedoms our parents or grandparents enjoyed that we are now denied. For some people rights have increased. We are less than a century since women earned the right to vote. Being gay (well, having a gay relationship, anyway) was actually illegal in my parents' childhood and for some of their adulthood actually. Imagine that. Two adults having a relationship was illegal because they were the same sex. So I really don't see evidence for the march of authoritarianism that some on here suppose. And those that do claim to see it never give concrete examples of how it's happening, it's always "this is what is going to happen". But given some of their predictions about how Covid restrictions would persist and increase, I'm sceptical of their 20:20 foresight.

[IBK]

You'll be unsurprised to hear I don't really see that happening.
I just don't see a clear direction of travel towards authoritarianism. And I would note that the people who scoff at that are the ones who saw the Covid restrictions as a land grab on our rights. Multiple people on here said that the restrictions were here to stay. That was never going to happen. They were clearly a response to "a situation". The wrong response, sure, but a response nonetheless. As the situation changed, so did the restrictions. And while it did feel at times like it would go on forever, we are past all that now and it's back to BAU. I just don't see what freedoms our parents or grandparents enjoyed that we are now denied. For some people rights have increased. We are less than a century since women earned the right to vote. Being gay (well, having a gay relationship, anyway) was actually illegal in my parents' childhood and for some of their adulthood actually. Imagine that. Two adults having a relationship was illegal because they were the same sex. So I really don't see evidence for the march of authoritarianism that some on here suppose. And those that do claim to see it never give concrete examples of how it's happening, it's always "this is what is going to happen". But given some of their predictions about how Covid restrictions would persist and increase, I'm sceptical of their 20:20 foresight.

I think we are talking different timescales. I see our system eventually failing - mostly because of the growing disparity between the haves and the have nots. We are already seeing a marked decline in real wealth amongst most in Western society - and this has been happening for a long time - masked by cheaper consumer goods and increasing efficiencies. We also need to accoutn for increasing automisation, that will make many jobs defunct. Whether 50 years or 200 - I think we are going to see massive and fundamental social change - after all there is a pattern of this throughout history.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think we are talking different timescales. I see our system eventually failing - mostly because of the growing disparity between the haves and the have nots. We are already seeing a marked decline in real wealth amongst most in Western society - and this has been happening for a long time - masked by cheaper consumer goods and increasing efficiencies. We also need to accoutn for increasing automisation, that will make many jobs defunct. Whether 50 years or 200 - I think we are going to see massive and fundamental social change - after all there is a pattern of this throughout history.

It was Mark Twain that stated that History doesn’t repeat itself but it rhymes.

You can see repeating patterns, in the rise of authoritarian strong men like Putin, Xi, Modi and Erdogan as well as the rehabilitation of men like Netanyahu and the Marcos family in the Phillipines

It’s essentially a rebuke of Fukuyama’s claim of the end of History at the fall of the Berlin Wall

It won’t ever look exactly the same and in the west the system will buckle rather than break.

This stress testing in the west has come about via the complacency and laziness of the institutions. You’ve pointed to one factor which is the growing economic inequality but on top of that there is an unreliable media ecosystem which thrives on division and sensationalism. The rise of identity politics and circles of purity.

For me it’s that our technological evolution is outstripping our biological evolution and we are still the same aggressive and fearful apes we were 500 years ago.

The thing on top of that is, instability is the norm and whilst it feels like the last 10-15 years has been extraordinary…it’s really the 60 years before hand that was conspicuous.

[Globalgunner]

Human nature has not changed not in 5 thousand years. We are greedy by nature and will routinely do outrageous things, If we think we can get away with it

The Romans were the prototype of todays western empire. They created an economy based on war and conquest. Did not produce their own food and relied on imports. Imports that were levied from conquered nations rather than bilateral trade. Created multiple enemies that they couldn't face down at the same time and got destroyed.

Its happening all over again

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64557459

You have to hand it to Nicola Sturgeon, before the ham fisted GRB passed to create a constitutional battle with Westminster and the subsequent “Might this not help Rapists get access to womens spaces” the News would have called this animal a woman, and not a man with a female alias.

As I’ve been saying for years, what’s bad for the SNP is good for the rest of society

[Niall_Quinn]

You'll be unsurprised to hear I don't really see that happening.
I just don't see a clear direction of travel towards authoritarianism. And I would note that the people who scoff at that are the ones who saw the Covid restrictions as a land grab on our rights. Multiple people on here said that the restrictions were here to stay. That was never going to happen. They were clearly a response to "a situation". The wrong response, sure, but a response nonetheless. As the situation changed, so did the restrictions. And while it did feel at times like it would go on forever, we are past all that now and it's back to BAU. I just don't see what freedoms our parents or grandparents enjoyed that we are now denied. For some people rights have increased. We are less than a century since women earned the right to vote. Being gay (well, having a gay relationship, anyway) was actually illegal in my parents' childhood and for some of their adulthood actually. Imagine that. Two adults having a relationship was illegal because they were the same sex. So I really don't see evidence for the march of authoritarianism that some on here suppose. And those that do claim to see it never give concrete examples of how it's happening, it's always "this is what is going to happen". But given some of their predictions about how Covid restrictions would persist and increase, I'm sceptical of their 20:20 foresight.

You see the world in one dimension and through strobe lighting. There is no complexity, just conformity without question, let alone analysis. So of course you can't see, of course you can't extrapolate the path of the unimpeded bullet. It's not as if the BBC is going to warn you. So many are like you. Stubbornly uneducated, at a time when all the knowledge of the world is a button press away.

[Niall_Quinn]

Human nature has not changed not in 5 thousand years. We are greedy by nature and will routinely do outrageous things, If we think we can get away with it

The Romans were the prototype of todays western empire. They created an economy based on war and conquest. Did not produce their own food and relied on imports. Imports that were levied from conquered nations rather than bilateral trade. Created multiple enemies that they couldn't face down at the same time and got destroyed.

Its happening all over again

There's a game changing difference today. For the first time in history genuine control can be established through technology. The worst of us always had to fear the rest of us, to varying degrees, because numbers mattered. Now those numbers, for the first time ever, can be measured, tracked and organised down to the individual. This is a new history, never seen before and to be seen for evermore if we miss our final chance to reject it. Many are welcoming it.

[Letters]

You see the world in one dimension and through strobe lighting. There is no complexity, just conformity without question, let alone analysis. So of course you can't see, of course you can't extrapolate the path of the unimpeded bullet.
But your claims of being the one who can see these things, of being the one who can extrapolate, are undermined by your record in predicting things that will happen. I've quoted it all before numerous times.
In October 2020 you said they were "gearing up" for marshal law. And...oh you know all the other stuff you said.
None of it happened. It just...didn't. The opposite happened, the restrictions were lifted. There's no debate about that to be had, it happened.

And that doesn't make you wrong about the direction of travel. I don't agree with you because my experience of the last few years has been of a load of pandemic restrictions which at times I thought necessary, at other times I thought ridiculous, but I always felt that they were temporary measures intended to deal with "a situation". I'd suggest I was right about that, because none of those measures are still in place. We are now back to BAU. You predicted ever increasing restrictions, that just didn't happen. A reasonable position for you would be to admit you got those things wrong and point to other things going on which lead you to believe you are correct about the general direction of travel even if you got some of the details and timelines wrong. But you don't do that, you just keep ignoring that you got anything wrong - at times doubling down and pretending you were actually correct because of things which were going on in different countries. That clearly isn't what you were talking about.
To be fair you have mentioned a couple of things recently, one was about some government report which you suggested I look up. So I tried, found a page with a load of reports on, asked which one you were talking about and you ignored me. So... :shrug:


Stubbornly uneducated, at a time when all the knowledge of the world is a button press away.
But which button? There's the problem these days. We can all find sources which reinforce our worldview and pander to our biases. In fact, the algorithms make sure that happens. The YouTube video suggestions, the Google results I see. These things are tailored to things I've already shown interest in. I personally don't think this is malicious (you, no doubt, will disagree), they're just trying to show me stuff they think I'd be interested in. But whether malicious or not, it does make it easy to become entrenched in one's position. It's part of why things are so polarised these days, IMO. The best you can do is try and read a range of sources and be aware of your biases. You may do the former, you seem poor at the latter. I've mentioned the USPS interview numerous times, you listened to it and your distrust of authority led you to hear things which just weren't there. Some of the YouTube channels you watch and some of the ones you dismiss when I post them speak to your biases (and mine, of course). But you never seem to acknowledge it or attempt to account for it.

[Globalgunner]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64557459

You have to hand it to Nicola Sturgeon, before the ham fisted GRB passed to create a constitutional battle with Westminster and the subsequent “Might this not help Rapists get access to womens spaces” the News would have called this animal a woman, and not a man with a female alias.

As I’ve been saying for years, what’s bad for the SNP is good for the rest of society

Is there any sane person who feels sorry this woman is gone. I thought nothing about her either way a few years ago especially when she was giving the middle finger to Teresa May, but in the last 2 years she has shown the political acumen of a Toad in boiling water. Bring back my former local Rep. The touchy feely guy from N Lanarkshire, former First Minister

[Globalgunner]

There's a game changing difference today. For the first time in history genuine control can be established through technology. The worst of us always had to fear the rest of us, to varying degrees, because numbers mattered. Now those numbers, for the first time ever, can be measured, tracked and neutralised down to the individual. This is a new history, never seen before and to be seen for evermore if we miss our final chance to reject it. Many are welcoming it.

Those who welcome it think it will never affect them. Until it does.

[Mac76]

Is there any sane person who feels sorry this woman is gone. I thought nothing about her either way a few years ago especially when she was giving the middle finger to Teresa May, but in the last 2 years she has shown the political acumen of a Toad in boiling water. Bring back my former local Rep. The touchy feely guy from N Lanarkshire, former First Minister

Well I'd be less harsh but there's no denying she has got herself into a bit of a mess recently

Tbh if I was Scottish I'd be out campaigning for independence on a daily basis to get away from Tory rule and rejoin the EU

For our sake I'm glad she's gone as it makes independence less likely, which if it happened would make this pretty much a one-party state and much worse for it

[Niall_Quinn]

But your claims of being the one who can see these things, of being the one who can extrapolate, are undermined by your record in predicting things that will happen. I've quoted it all before numerous times.
In October 2020 you said they were "gearing up" for marshal law. And...oh you know all the other stuff you said.
None of it happened. It just...didn't. The opposite happened, the restrictions were lifted. There's no debate about that to be had, it happened.

And that doesn't make you wrong about the direction of travel. I don't agree with you because my experience of the last few years has been of a load of pandemic restrictions which at times I thought necessary, at other times I thought ridiculous, but I always felt that they were temporary measures intended to deal with "a situation". I'd suggest I was right about that, because none of those measures are still in place. We are now back to BAU. You predicted ever increasing restrictions, that just didn't happen. A reasonable position for you would be to admit you got those things wrong and point to other things going on which lead you to believe you are correct about the general direction of travel even if you got some of the details and timelines wrong. But you don't do that, you just keep ignoring that you got anything wrong - at times doubling down and pretending you were actually correct because of things which were going on in different countries. That clearly isn't what you were talking about.
To be fair you have mentioned a couple of things recently, one was about some government report which you suggested I look up. So I tried, found a page with a load of reports on, asked which one you were talking about and you ignored me. So... :shrug:


But which button? There's the problem these days. We can all find sources which reinforce our worldview and pander to our biases. In fact, the algorithms make sure that happens. The YouTube video suggestions, the Google results I see. These things are tailored to things I've already shown interest in. I personally don't think this is malicious (you, no doubt, will disagree), they're just trying to show me stuff they think I'd be interested in. But whether malicious or not, it does make it easy to become entrenched in one's position. It's part of why things are so polarised these days, IMO. The best you can do is try and read a range of sources and be aware of your biases. You may do the former, you seem poor at the latter. I've mentioned the USPS interview numerous times, you listened to it and your distrust of authority led you to hear things which just weren't there. Some of the YouTube channels you watch and some of the ones you dismiss when I post them speak to your biases (and mine, of course). But you never seem to acknowledge it or attempt to account for it.

How would you know? You are the type of person who gets told to wear a mask, so you do. Then you get told you can take off the mask, so you think you are free. The sort of person who tells us the removal of the mask forgives the countless statutes that went on the books and are still in place, the ones you will never talk about because it used to frighten you but then you learned to never even question. You have chosen absolute subservience as your survival mechanism. Many do.

It never, ever worked for anyone. But then again, you are careful to avoid reading history. Because you can't see them, your eyes are shut so tight, you think they can't see you. My cat does that. It's cute.

[Niall_Quinn]

But your claims of being the one who can see these things, of being the one who can extrapolate, are undermined by your record in predicting things that will happen. I've quoted it all before numerous times.
In October 2020 you said they were "gearing up" for marshal law. And...oh you know all the other stuff you said.
None of it happened. It just...didn't. The opposite happened, the restrictions were lifted. There's no debate about that to be had, it happened.

And that doesn't make you wrong about the direction of travel. I don't agree with you because my experience of the last few years has been of a load of pandemic restrictions which at times I thought necessary, at other times I thought ridiculous, but I always felt that they were temporary measures intended to deal with "a situation". I'd suggest I was right about that, because none of those measures are still in place. We are now back to BAU. You predicted ever increasing restrictions, that just didn't happen. A reasonable position for you would be to admit you got those things wrong and point to other things going on which lead you to believe you are correct about the general direction of travel even if you got some of the details and timelines wrong. But you don't do that, you just keep ignoring that you got anything wrong - at times doubling down and pretending you were actually correct because of things which were going on in different countries. That clearly isn't what you were talking about.
To be fair you have mentioned a couple of things recently, one was about some government report which you suggested I look up. So I tried, found a page with a load of reports on, asked which one you were talking about and you ignored me. So... :shrug:


But which button? There's the problem these days. We can all find sources which reinforce our worldview and pander to our biases. In fact, the algorithms make sure that happens. The YouTube video suggestions, the Google results I see. These things are tailored to things I've already shown interest in. I personally don't think this is malicious (you, no doubt, will disagree), they're just trying to show me stuff they think I'd be interested in. But whether malicious or not, it does make it easy to become entrenched in one's position. It's part of why things are so polarised these days, IMO. The best you can do is try and read a range of sources and be aware of your biases. You may do the former, you seem poor at the latter. I've mentioned the USPS interview numerous times, you listened to it and your distrust of authority led you to hear things which just weren't there. Some of the YouTube channels you watch and some of the ones you dismiss when I post them speak to your biases (and mine, of course). But you never seem to acknowledge it or attempt to account for it.

Go and read Seymour M. Hersh, you ignoramus. So coy. But "which" button? Let me suggest something. Ignore the "journalists" who lie and pay attention to the ones who tell the truth. It's REALLY fucking simple. And if they lie to you even once, NEVER listen to them again.

Which means no BBC. Sorry.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is there any sane person who feels sorry this woman is gone. I thought nothing about her either way a few years ago especially when she was giving the middle finger to Teresa May, but in the last 2 years she has shown the political acumen of a Toad in boiling water. Bring back my former local Rep. The touchy feely guy from N Lanarkshire, former First Minister

When they said "Gone" I thought she had died. So yes, I was a bit sorry to hear she'd only resigned, to 24 boardrooms where the cunt will "work" 1 hour a year for £100K.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well I'd be less harsh but there's no denying she has got herself into a bit of a mess recently

Tbh if I was Scottish I'd be out campaigning for independence on a daily basis to get away from Tory rule and rejoin the EU

For our sake I'm glad she's gone as it makes independence less likely, which if it happened would make this pretty much a one-party state and much worse for it

God forbid we ever end up with a one party state. I mean, can you imagine? And if you can't imagine, can you look out your window?

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-64697300

:rose:

This seemed like the fairly inevitable outcome, sadly

[GP]

The latest conspiracy nonsense doing the rounds is "15 minute cities" so look out for that one. It's a good chuckle.

[WMUG]

The latest conspiracy nonsense doing the rounds is "15 minute cities" so look out for that one. It's a good chuckle.

Having to drive for half an hour to get to a shop is True Freedom

[Letters]

Dickie :rose:

https://metro.co.uk/2023/02/19/dickie-davies-legendary-sports-presenter-dies-aged-94-18311044/

[Niall_Quinn]

The latest conspiracy nonsense doing the rounds is "15 minute cities" so look out for that one. It's a good chuckle.

Notice how the commie bastard calls an ACTUAL council policy a "conspiracy theory". You can easily look up 15 minute cities such as Oxford. Yet the commie wants you to dismiss the story before it is even told.

You already know I called this bloke out for being a mega cunt. Now you can verify it for yourself and wonder, why does he lie to his "friends".

But don't despair. Every last commie traitor bastard in history has ended up against a wall. Yeah sure, they caused a lot of misery in the interim. But we get to them in the end. Their fucked up anti-humanitarian devilry never prevails.

Could I be lucky enough to be the chosen one who shoots this bastard in the head? Probably not. But we can always aspire.

[Niall_Quinn]

Having to drive for half an hour to get to a shop is True Freedom

You seem to be missing the whole point of "representation" my friend.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-64697300

:rose:

This seemed like the fairly inevitable outcome, sadly

BBC again. Just to prove the point. This mug actually believes it's real.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sydney is here and it represents the greatest leap backwards in human knowledge since human knowledge was a thing. Imagine. If there's only one "correct" answer", just how little knowledge are you going to have access to?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sydney is here and it represents the greatest leap backwards in human knowledge since human knowledge was a thing. Imagine. If there's only one "correct" answer", just how little knowledge are you going to have access to?

Oh look what’s come out of its crypt again

First off coming from you this concern comes across as hypocritical given you’ve said about what you say being objective fact .

Second as concerning as it may or may not be, there are of course some questions which do only have one answer. I’d be far more concerned about authoritarianism in a state where it’s decided 2+2 has multiple answers because there is no objective truth to cling to.

In terms of more philosophical questions, if you asked an AI currently whether God exists it will come out with a lot of spiel about what different cultures believe, it won’t say yes or no and in the affirmative give you its email address.

AI should always remain a concern, especially when we delegate decision making to a machine but for the moment we are at the stage where it’s little more than a curiousity

[Letters]

BBC again. Just to prove the point. This mug actually believes it's real.

:blink:

What isn’t real? The body has now been confirmed as that of the missing lady :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

:blink:

What isn’t real? The body has now been confirmed as that of the missing lady :shrug:

It didn’t happen, she’s a crisis actor who is also very good at snorkelling in foul river water

[Letters]

It didn’t happen, she’s a crisis actor who is also very good at snorkelling in foul river water

One has to admire her commitment to the part

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjktWH6_Wcg

[Xhaka Can’t]

William Hague and Tony Blair: Science is the single issue all our dreams depend on

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9ffb1bf8-b240-11ed-be6b-8488e113f360?shareToken=8ee9d7d42136da85d20f2f0618 e80460

This is a report about securing our future as we face the challenges and opportunities of a digital future as we stand at the precipice of a technology revolution that will dwarf that of the Industrial Revolution.

Lots of great things about improving how we invest in STEM to unleash its potential to improve public services and by extension the lives of everyone regardless of socio-economic background.

Sitting in the middle of this is, “We advocate reorganising the centre of Whitehall to drive the use of data and AI across government, including digital ID for every citizen, a national health infrastructure that uses data to improve care and keep costs down, and sovereign AI systems backed by supercomputing capabilities”.

I genuinely don’t believe that the objective here is as altruistic as it is stated. What they say there and the march to complete digitisation of finance, including financial transactions, no matter how small is pretty much complete state control over every aspect of our lives. This is what can be achieved now, at a time when technology is at its most primitive state between now and the end of time.

This does not feel as if we are moving to a new state of utopia.

[Letters]

This does not feel as if we are moving to a new state of utopia.
It doesn't have to be a move towards a state of dystopia either though. Certain people see any measure like this as a lurch towards authoratarianism.
But those same people are the ones who saw that in the Covid measures too - multiple people on here claimed the lockdowns were here to stay, and NQ predicted all kinds of increasing restrictions. That didn't happen, it was never going to happen. Because, ultimately, we don't have an oppressive regime here. And that doesn't mean they're bending over backwards working tirelessly to help us either, there's a huge middle ground between those two extremes.
Obviously the danger of these things is we might have an oppressive regime here one day. That is a is a legitimate concern. But we never have had one in our modern history and I find it vanishingly unlikely that we ever will.

I guess it's like nuclear weapons. They exist. They could wipe us all out. So the probability of that happening is greater than 0. But it's never happened. Well, not since since WW2 - but those bombs, while powerful, were nowhere near as powerful as the ones which exist now. The ones now are so powerful that the prospect of MAD exists, which has meant (so far) that no-one has been crazy enough to press "the button". Could it happen? Well it could. In the same way we could have an authoritarian regime installed which would use these technologies to control and oppress us in the way people like NQ fear. Is it likely? Not in my estimation. Is there anything we can do about it? Probably not.

These things generally add convenience and of course it means they can gather increasing amounts of data about us, which means they can market to us more effectively. The bottom line is generally money, but I don't think it's a desire for oppression and control. The pandemic was a perfect excuse for that land grab and they didn't take it. But hey, maybe I'm naive. But I would ask the people who think we are sliding into authoritarianism what actual freedoms they had when they were younger that they don't have today. What practical differences had all this data and tracking made to their lives.

[IBK]

It doesn't have to be a move towards a state of dystopia either though. Certain people see any measure like this as a lurch towards authoratarianism.
But those same people are the ones who saw that in the Covid measures too - multiple people on here claimed the lockdowns were here to stay, and NQ predicted all kinds of increasing restrictions. That didn't happen, it was never going to happen. Because, ultimately, we don't have an oppressive regime here. And that doesn't mean they're bending over backwards working tirelessly to help us either, there's a huge middle ground between those two extremes.
Obviously the danger of these things is we might have an oppressive regime here one day. That is a is a legitimate concern. But we never have had one in our modern history and I find it vanishingly unlikely that we ever will.

I guess it's like nuclear weapons. They exist. They could wipe us all out. So the probability of that happening is greater than 0. But it's never happened. Well, not since since WW2 - but those bombs, while powerful, were nowhere near as powerful as the ones which exist now. The ones now are so powerful that the prospect of MAD exists, which has meant (so far) that no-one has been crazy enough to press "the button". Could it happen? Well it could. In the same way we could have an authoritarian regime installed which would use these technologies to control and oppress us in the way people like NQ fear. Is it likely? Not in my estimation. Is there anything we can do about it? Probably not.

These things generally add convenience and of course it means they can gather increasing amounts of data about us, which means they can market to us more effectively. The bottom line is generally money, but I don't think it's a desire for oppression and control. The pandemic was a perfect excuse for that land grab and they didn't take it. But hey, maybe I'm naive. But I would ask the people who think we are sliding into authoritarianism what actual freedoms they had when they were younger that they don't have today. What practical differences had all this data and tracking made to their lives.

I get what you're saying, but I think there are many practical issued raised by an increasingly digital future.

The average person may not currently notice the effects of harvesting data and this being incorporated into every aspect of their daily lives, but this doesn't mean that it is harmless. We are already in an era of covert social control - mostly by social media. This might not be the traditional idea of authoritarianism, which is top down control by a state or dictator - in fact at present it is often the inverse of this. More and more we are being prevented from thinking freely - or at least expressing or debating our opinions. For example 'wokeness' (for want of a better word) is fast becoming a bottom up, liberal authoritarianism in which you are cancelled (and can suffer the loss of a job; social standing or even be placed in physical harm) simply for not following the majority view. This majority view is itself is informed by the fact that social media deliberately polarises and self-justifies beliefs because algorithms direct users to content that agrees with their own. You may say that it has always been this way - but the press, for example, has never had the penetrative; pervasive and manipulative effect that constant exposure to digital media produces. The digital revolution is moving ever more rapidly towards an extreme form of social control - and the fact that it may be peer to peer, or that we are voluntarily participating in it makes it no less (in fact it makes it much more) insidious.

And we are not just talking about bottom up authoritarianism. The Cambridge Analytica data scandal showed us how data harvesting can have a direct effect on our so-called democratic processes, but was really only the first time most people had been made aware of psychological targeting that has been and continues to be used by those seeking to influence the way we think and behave. The concerns about elections being influenced by malign factions are for me justified by just how possible it is to do so virtually undetected in today's technological landscape. This potential is only going to get worse as the pace of technology advances - exacerbated by the fact that only relatively few people - and certainly not most of those ostensibly in power and charged with acting in society's best interests - understand.

In the world of finance, the dangers of finetec include loss of privacy; compromised data security; rising risks of fraud and scams; unfair and discriminatory uses of data and data analytics; uses of data that are non-transparent to both consumers and regulators; harmful manipulation of consumer behaviour; and risks that tech firms entering the financial or financial regulatory space will lack adequate knowledge, operational effectiveness, and stability. You can argue that none of this directly affects our daily lives, but it does in a very real sense. Most people know someone who has been the victim of financial fraud. If you work in the service industry you are obliged to spend increasing amounts of time dealing with regulations intended to prevent fraud or money laundering. If you are a consumer, these additional costs are passed onto you in prices and charges, the need to pay for insurance, or being excluded from access to certain products and services.

Increasing automisation also affects all of our lives in a very real sense. Machine technology is neither moral nor involves any element of discretion. There are many people who will have been rejected for a bank loan or mortgage; been unable to obtain insurance or denied services as the result of gatekeeper algorithms before human judgment has even come into play. This already creates “winners” who are classed as less risky by the more sophisticated algorithm and “losers” who are not. What’s more these often mirror social and financial divides – so technology widens the gap between rich and poor and is therefore an obvious impediment to social mobility.

My final example is in the field of healthcare. For me we are marching towards an inevitable situation where genetic engineering (albeit unlikely to be described as such) will be available to those able to afford to pay for it, and healthcare (or at least health insurance) will be denied to those with pre-existing genetic defects. If that is too much for you, then certainly lifestyles will be influenced by the availability or otherwise of health care. There are many who may support this, but data harvesting is likely to have a direct effect on personal freedoms – whether individuals value this or not.

[Letters]

Ooft. That's a good post, I don't have time to unpack it out now. Will have a proper look later*
*I mean at some point later in my life, probably not today.

[Mac76]

If climate change isn't reigned in in time, then i think we will see a period of increasing conflicts over migration and resources, followed by societal breakdown, rather than authoritarian control

The internet / data / AI feel all-pervasive until you can consider it's still all physical infrastructure

China and others have the capability to disrupt/destroy the GPS network satellites anytime they like and the internet is ultimately a network of physical cables which can likewise be destroyed

and then there's the power supplies upon which it all depends, which as we've seen can also easily be disrupted, not least because governments like ours have been far too slow to pursue renewable energy which can be created within national borders

[IBK]

Ooft. That's a good post, I don't have time to unpack it out now. Will have a proper look later*
*I mean at some point later in my life, probably not today.

:lol: It was an essay I know (slow morning!).

[IBK]

If climate change isn't reigned in in time, then i think we will see a period of increasing conflicts over migration and resources, followed by societal breakdown, rather than authoritarian control

The internet / data / AI feel all-pervasive until you can consider it's still all physical infrastructure

China and others have the capability to disrupt/destroy the GPS network satellites anytime they like and the internet is ultimately a network of physical cables which can likewise be destroyed

and then there's the power supplies upon which it all depends, which as we've seen can also easily be disrupted, not least because governments like ours have been far too slow to pursue renewable energy which can be created within national borders

Yes - fightening stuff...and its even more frightening that we are all sleeptwalking into what could be a dystopian future. Bad times :ilt:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Whilst I think it’s always good to have concerns, as because with concerns come guardrails…I think this way lies dystopia is often an overplayed card and can have the consequence of developing Luddite attitudes.

The problem is never the technology it’s us the people that are the problem, we are most of us prone to short term thinking and some of us prone to exploitative and predatory thinking.

This is the advent of another chapter in the ongoing saga of human civilisation, and as I’ve said before most of the previous pages have been full of precarious circumstances and discord. I was 6 when the Berlin Wall came down and the end of history failed to materialise, the relatively short period of calm has strangely become the yard stick by which we measure the last five to ten years and by that standard it will seem like things are unusually tumultuous.

It’s not to be blasé about the problems we face, especially as there is no shared agreement about what those problems are let alone the solutions. But I don’t necessarily buy into the pre-ordained future of “imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever” either

[HCZ_Reborn]

RIP John Motson

[Mac76]

RIP John Motson

indeed :rose:

some good bits of his commentary here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64742833

[LDG]

Turtle Bay :bow:

Nom nom nomnom

[Letters]

Hadn’t heard of that chain. Does look good tbf.

Also:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64776969

Salad :lol:
Awful food.

Vegetarians :pal:

[Mac76]

Turtle Bay :bow:

Nom nom nomnom

Looks nice and there's one in Walthamstow, might check it out :good:

[WMUG]

Oh no my office has no WiFi so I can't work what will I do this is terrible.

:ladynana:

[Letters]

And yet you're posting on here.
Get back to work :threaten:

[WMUG]

So there's these things called phones, right

[Letters]

So there's these things called phones, right

Which you can use as a hotspot for your laptop. Get on with it, man! :fury:

:d

[WMUG]

I did think of that! :lol:

Limited data, "sadly".

[GP]

I started a new job recently. In a team meeting I was told off for saying "brainstorm" Apparently this is an ableist term.

Might quit.

[Letters]

Holy shit :lol:

My place is woke af.

I recently got invited by "The Diversity Unit" to join an online discussion on "sex and gender equality".

That'll be a hard no...

[Mac76]

Holy shit :lol:

My place is woke af.

I recently got invited by "The Diversity Unit" to join an online discussion on "sex and gender equality".

That'll be a hard no...

Can you not just turn up for the sex bit?

[Letters]

:lol:

There was another thing recently about some programme where they're using "positive discrimination" to encourage minorities to join.
I'd suggest the solution to discrimination is equality, not different discrimination.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Holy shit :lol:

My place is woke af.

I recently got invited by "The Diversity Unit" to join an online discussion on "sex and gender equality".

That'll be a hard no...


This shit is doing the rounds everywhere at the moment, I had to do what’s called DEI training back in November (I told people that I’d been sent on it exclusively in an attempt to help me mend my ways ha ha)

So just be glad that for you it was optional. Guy in my office is the special officer for diversity and men’s issues (by men’s issues he means bollocks like toxic masculinity) decided to try and bask in the “Stunning and Brave” sunlight by admitting to us that he was on the autistic spectrum (mate we already knew)

I must admit the DEI was pretty anodyne…no real different to what I’ve learned about as a counsellor. Basically don’t feel bad that you might stereotype people because we all do it, just be aware that it might not be that helpful to you. Fair enough really.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol:

There was another thing recently about some programme where they're using "positive discrimination" to encourage minorities to join.
I'd suggest the solution to discrimination is equality, not different discrimination.

On one hand I do think if you’re policing certain communities you probably do want the odd token person from that community….although as we saw in Kentucky that doesn’t stop silly accusations of racism.

But yeah positive discrimination, shouldn’t be something you say out loud even if that’s what you intend. Although if you’re the Labour Party it might help you actually appoint an actual woman as a woman’s officer and not some cosplaying creep in fishnets

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436


This has fucked me off, what possible purpose does this serve

I’m genuinely sorry the woman on the bike was killed. As I’m sure were the pedestrian and the driver

But it’s not like she pushed her, she lost control of her bike and more or less fell into the oncoming car, when she shouldn’t have been on the pavement to begin with.

This is police and prosecution being overzealous

[GP]

This woman caused the death. Even if she didn't push her, which isn't clear, her actions caused her to fall in front of a car.

It's also not clear if she should have been cycling there or not. So it's not this woman's place to do what she did. She deserves prison.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This woman caused the death. Even if she didn't push her, which isn't clear, her actions caused her to fall in front of a car.

It's also not clear if she should have been cycling there or not. So it's not this woman's place to do what she did. She deserves prison.

Fuck right off with that, if you’re on your bike on a pedestrianised pavement it’s abundantly clear you’re a nuisance to pedestrians. And no unless she used Jedi powers to make this woman fall off her bike she in no way caused what happened and actually only adds to my belief that this woman shouldn’t have been out riding a bike in public to begin with if someone shouting at you can cause a loss of motor control.
It’s absolutely obscene to believe a crime has been committed, it was an accident nothing more nothing less. The police and the CPS should be ashamed

[LDG]

This woman caused the death. Even if she didn't push her, which isn't clear, her actions caused her to fall in front of a car.

It's also not clear if she should have been cycling there or not. So it's not this woman's place to do what she did. She deserves prison.

Spot on. Road safety is as much about pedestrians taking due care, as it is for cars, cyclists or anything else that goes down a highway.

Whether or not someone is doing something wrong, being a cunt and deliberately guving a driver/cyclist something else to worry about is negligence.

[Letters]

And no unless she used Jedi powers to make this woman fall off her bike she in no way caused what happened
Well that's bullshit. If the lady hadn't shouted and waved her arms at the cyclist then she wouldn't have lost control of her bike. It's clear that those actions distracted the cyclist and directly caused the accident.
That said...the cyclist shouldn't really have been on the pavement and there must be many instances a day of pedestrians yelling at cyclists with no consequence.
So...overall, I don't know if she should be in jail. No-one really wins out of this incident, it's pretty sad all round.

[Mac76]

Spot on. Road safety is as much about pedestrians taking due care, as it is for cars, cyclists or anything else that goes down a highway.

Whether or not someone is doing something wrong, being a cunt and deliberately guving a driver/cyclist something else to worry about is negligence.

agreed, given how anti-cyclist this country can be it's good to see some kind of justice

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well that's bullshit. If the lady hadn't shouted and waved her arms at the cyclist then she wouldn't have lost control of her bike. It's clear that those actions distracted the cyclist and directly caused the accident.
That said...the cyclist shouldn't really have been on the pavement and there must be many instances a day of pedestrians yelling at cyclists with no consequence.
So...overall, I don't know if she should be in jail. No-one really wins out of this incident, it's pretty sad all round.

It’s not bullshit at all, if someone shouting and waving their arms at you causes you to lose control of your bike then it’s safe to say you’re not safe to be on your bike at all

I’m not saying the pedestrian did nothing wrong, but no way in hell is that a criminal matter.

[Letters]

I'm responding to the assertion that the pedestrian "in no way" caused the incident, of course she did.
Whether it's a criminal matter...well, I dunno. I don't think it's clear. She was both correct and being a bit of a prick and the latter of those things did cause the accident.
But as I said, no-one really wins out of this whole incident.

[WMUG]

It was a shared cyclist/pedestrian path, she was where she was supposed to be.

The actual cause of death is a failure of road design, of course. If there'd been a segregated bike path on that road the two people would never have come into conflict.

[WMUG]

Holy shit :lol:

My place is woke af.

I recently got invited by "The Diversity Unit" to join an online discussion on "sex and gender equality".

That'll be a hard no...

Afraid you might learn something?

[Letters]

Afraid you might learn something?

Afraid I might say what I actually think and get an email from HR :d

[Letters]

Oh goody

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63824422

Elton John to headline Glasto.
Looking forward to "I'm Dill Danding", "Diny Dander" and "Dandle in the Wind"

[Ollie the Optimist]

agreed, given how anti-cyclist this country can be it's good to see some kind of justice

There is a perception that cyclists get away with not obeyin the rules of the road. Walking around the city everyday, cyclists routining go through red lights when pedestrians are crossing. Yet nothing ever happens to them, they dont get fines etc. someone will get hurt one day because of this and yet because cyclists dont have insurance etc, there would little anyone can do to recover compensation unlike if it was a car.

Jeremy vine routinely films poor driving and posts it on twitter yet when he posted a clip of a cyclist going through a red light and narrowly missing someone, he still defends the cyclist as saying it wasnt that bad.

I think the frustration among many is that if a cyclist is injured (or killed as in the case mentioned in this thread) action is taken (rightly) yet when cyclists break the law, nothing happens

[WMUG]

How many people do cyclists kill a year vs people in cars?

You're about as likely to be killed by lightning as by a cyclist.

Law breaking by cyclists just isn't that big a problem.

Cyclists being killed, on the other hand, is a massive problem and will only be solved by fixing the massive damage that 20th century road design has caused.

[Ollie the Optimist]

How many people do cyclists kill a year vs people in cars?

You're about as likely to be killed by lightning as by a cyclist.

Law breaking by cyclists just isn't that big a problem.

Cyclists being killed, on the other hand, is a massive problem and will only be solved by fixing the massive damage that 20th century road design has caused.

I fully accept cyclists are unlikely to kill someone if they hit them but they will cause injury.

As i said, walking around the city you are constantly having to watch out for cyclists routinely going through red lights when pedestrians are crossing. Several go through at speed and if you get hit, you are likely to have an injury because of their law breaking attitudes.

Is it really that hard for cyclists to stop at red lights?

[WMUG]

I fully accept cyclists are unlikely to kill someone if they hit them but they will cause injury.

As i said, walking around the city you are constantly having to watch out for cyclists routinely going through red lights when pedestrians are crossing. Several go through at speed and if you get hit, you are likely to have an injury because of their law breaking attitudes.

Is it really that hard for cyclists to stop at red lights?

Sometimes it is much safer to go on red than on green.

On my commute, there's a couple of junctions like this one: https://goo.gl/maps/ueQ53sqx15dnUcgu6

When it's green for pedestrians, it's green on all 4 arms of the junction, meaning there are no cars going at that time.

When it's green for vehicles, you have cars turning across your path when you go.

So yes, it's much, much safer as a cyclist to go on red at that point than on green, as long as you take car to look out for pedestrians, obviously (though by the time you get to across the junction, they've almost certainly already finished crossing the road anyway).

The way to solve this problem is by designing the junction such that the green signal for cyclists is also the safest moment for cyclists to go. There's a few different ways to do that, but the best one I've seen is the CYCLOPS junction: https://goo.gl/maps/95km7qJC2CnHMU8v6

Here, cyclists are essentially alongside pedestrians, rather than at a right angle, and are never going at the same time as cars.

[Letters]

So yes, it's much, much safer as a cyclist to go on red at that point than on green, as long as you take care to look out for pedestrians, obviously.
I don't actually have a problem with cyclists going through slowly and carefully, but sometimes they whizz through in a really dangerous way.

[WMUG]

I don't actually have a problem with cyclists going through slowly and carefully, but sometimes they whizz through in a really dangerous way.

Idiots gonna idiot.

You have to design infrastructure to account for idiocy.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The jury is very much out as to whether it’s a shared pathway

But to be honest I don’t care about the cyclist vs motorist debate, apart from finding Jeremy Vine tiresome

I just think absolutely there should be no criminal penalty for what happened.