"Currants Bw..."

[Niall_Quinn]

*sigh*

To respond to some of your nonsense above...

You know that laughing at Americans in general was a joke, a form of joke which has been posted a million times on here before. And you know that I'm not uncertain about whether my conversation with the American happened, it was clear from the above that my uncertainty was whether I'd related it on here before. The 'something like' was merely because it may not have been exactly word for word like that but it was very close.
You're presenting a complete straw man argument about me as usual. You're either on the wind up or you're stupid, I can't tell which any more.

You ask what data I have to show that Trump is a bigger liar than Clinton. I don't quite know why you bothered to ask because you will obviously dismiss anything I produce but fine, I show a source which demonstrates it clearly and your wearingly predictable response is laughter and derision. It's your classic conspiracy theory mentality. Dismiss any source which shows you to be wrong. But, of course, you provide no explanation of why you think that source unreliable, no other source showing a different view. Nothing. You accuse me of regurgitation as though your thoughts about this are entirely your own and not based on your own reading which is obviously bollocks. You don't know either candidate personally either so your opinions come from what you've seen and read too.

And I'm not saying Clinton is squeaky clean by any means. But I do think she at least has some grip on reality, I don't think Trump does. The infamous wall clearly won't happen, Mexico clearly won't pay. He says he'll reduce the deficit and lower taxes with no explanation as to how. The level of debate in this race has been "You're a puppet", "No, you're the puppet". It's pathetic.

Let's see what you say by the end of next week. We'll have a chat then.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Idiot. You need to put some sort of combustible in the spark zone or all you get is smoke. Duh.

Considering where they held the fireworks display in adjacent field there was a fast food trailer left behind complete with highly flammable propane tank, I consider myself grateful there wasn't an actual fire. I mean call me a stick in the mud but picking glass out of my face isn't my prefered way of spending time.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Let's see what you say by the end of next week. We'll have a chat then.

Not sure quite what that means, one of them is going to become president and I doubt unless you have been tipped off in some way that we are going to find anything out about either one of them that we didn't know already.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure quite what that means, one of them is going to become president and I doubt unless you have been tipped off in some way that we are going to find anything out about either one of them that we didn't know already.

Wasn't directed at you. I'm not saying anything until next week because most people simply don't have the capacity to believe what's happening under their very noses. So a nobody like me will gain zero traction by revealing what's about to happen. But when US officials speak up then even the most fervent mainstream, drip-fed dopes will pay attention.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wasn't directed at you. I'm not saying anything until next week because most people simply don't have the capacity to believe what's happening under their very noses. So a nobody like me will gain zero traction by revealing what's about to happen. But when US officials speak up then even the most fervent mainstream, drip-fed dopes will pay attention.

I know wasn't directed at me, just found it to be a curious statement

I don't think there is any particular harm in you stating what you believe will happen.

Either she wins and probably by this time next week Trump still hasn't conceded the race or he wins

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ah I get what you're referring to now (I think) the whole Trump won't be permitted to win comment by Assange

Funny that this nicely chimes in with Trumps assertion that he will accept the result only if he wins.

And in Assanges case he's throwing a paddy because his Ecuadorian foster parents won't let him use the net.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ah I get what you're referring to now (I think) the whole Trump won't be permitted to win comment by Assange

Funny that this nicely chimes in with Trumps assertion that he will accept the result only if he wins.

And in Assanges case he's throwing a paddy because his Ecuadorian foster parents won't let him use the net.

I didn't say that and I didn't mean that either, although there is copious evidence that the election is being rigged. Dead people voting, illegals voting. But that happens every time so it's expected and no big deal.

Every single one of the 33,000 emails deleted by Clinton have now been recovered. That's what I'm talking about.

[Goonermerree]

I didn't say that and I didn't mean that either, although there is copious evidence that the election is being rigged. Dead people voting, illegals voting. But that happens every time so it's expected and no big deal.

Every single one of the 33,000 emails deleted by Clinton have now been recovered. That's what I'm talking about.

Do you want Trump to win?

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you want Trump to win?

Of course.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37882973

Although personally I think this should be a civil rather than criminal case, there is an unbelievable stupidity about Social media users.

Although I'm glad the charge is breach of privacy rather than something pathetic like "body shaming".

It's like the morons who send death threats to people on Twitter.

[Goonermerree]

Of course.

Why? Not that I think Hillary is a good candidate, but he's horrible. He even dissed Obama for the way he handled a heckler, which I thought he handled well. The crowd was booing the old man, but he told them to respect him. If I had only hear Trump talking about it I would have thought Obama had grabbed him and physically removed him or something.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Again at the risk of trying to speak for NQ, people who are upset by what Trump says are delicate little flowers who need to get a grip and look at what a blatant criminal Hilary Clinton is (i think there is sufficient evidence to suggest he is on many grounds as well). That Trump is less stupid than he appears and under him America might move slightly more away from globalisation (it won't).
That Clinton represents dark interests that perpetuate the financial industry (which is actually probably not that unfair an accusation) and although democracy in that country is a total sham like it is in every other western country it's Trump not Clinton that is the lesser of two evils.

[Niall_Quinn]

Again at the risk of trying to speak for NQ, people who are upset by what Trump says are delicate little flowers who need to get a grip and look at what a blatant criminal Hilary Clinton is (i think there is sufficient evidence to suggest he is on many grounds as well). That Trump is less stupid than he appears and under him America might move slightly more away from globalisation (it won't).
That Clinton represents dark interests that perpetuate the financial industry (which is actually probably not that unfair an accusation) and although democracy in that country is a total sham like it is in every other western country it's Trump not Clinton that is the lesser of two evils.

Tbf I'm not thinking that deeply into it. My rule is simple enough. If it disrupts, attrits, degrades or destroys the establishment then I'm pro. If not then I'm against without question. The powers that have directed our society for so long have had ample opportunity to demonstrate they give a fuck about us, even in the way a pet owner would care about his pet. They don't. They see us as raw materials for their own agendas and personal ambitions. I'm fully aware of what the Clinton's are and what they stand for so I oppose them by default. I'd want Blair to win if he was running against them. I'm fully aware of what Trump is, an absolute lightweight by comparison but, most importantly, a lightning rod for the sort of people (if I'm honest) I wouldn't want to have dinner with but are the only types that can throw a spanner is the works because they have so little to lose. I don't imagine for a moment that a Trump victory derails the train, but I think it sends it into a temporary siding.

However, I don't think the election is really that important any more. What's happening now with the counter assault on the Clinton/ Bush gang is genuinely eye-opening. There's a 0.000001% chance that all of western society could be transformed in the next week. Best chance we've had in decades.

[Goonermerree]

Ugh, Trump kissing a baby, I wouldn't let him near my baby.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ugh, Trump kissing a baby.

With or without tongue?

[Goonermerree]

With or without tongue?

Forked tongue!!!

[Kano]

Ugh, Trump kissing a baby, I wouldn't let him near my baby.

Is that what you call it?

[Goonermerree]

Wasn't directed at you. I'm not saying anything until next week because most people simply don't have the capacity to believe what's happening under their very noses. So a nobody like me will gain zero traction by revealing what's about to happen. But when US officials speak up then even the most fervent mainstream, drip-fed dopes will pay attention.

I wish you would, I am curious.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wish you would, I am curious.

The 33K emails. They have been recovered, in full. There's all sorts of shit going on now, how much of it will come out I don't know.

[Goonermerree]

The 33K emails. They have been recovered, in full. There's all sorts of shit going on now, how much of it will come out I don't know.

How much is there to come out? I don't know.

[Niall_Quinn]

How much is there to come out? I don't know.

Espionage for starters (and I mean starters). Miss Abedin is in some serious, serious shit and the latest is she has turned to save her sorry arse.

[Goonermerree]

Espionage for starters (and I mean starters). Miss Abedin is in some serious, serious shit and the latest is she has turned to save her sorry arse.

Ah well, as you say, we'll see. I don't think Trump is without lawsuits against him either. The pair of them are bad choices for their respective parties.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ah well, as you say, we'll see. I don't think Trump is without lawsuits against him either. The pair of them are bad choices for their respective parties.

Not quite the same thing. National security is a subject of pure paranoia in the States. Step over that line and there are very serious people who will get you, no matter who you are. Trump may have to pay a few fines or pay a few claimants off, but he's in the paddling pool compared to Clinton who is now drowning in the deep end.

[Goonermerree]

'The Secret Service has called the incident a "commotion" but many inside Trump's campaign, including his son Donald Jr, have continued to spin it as an attempt on the candidate's life.'

Milk it Donald. Others trying to make out it was a democrat plant, even though the guy is a Republican.:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

'The Secret Service has called the incident a "commotion" but many inside Trump's campaign, including his son Donald Jr, have continued to spin it as an attempt on the candidate's life.'

Milk it Donald. Others trying to make out it was a democrat plant, even though the guy is a Republican.:haha:

There was a guy with a gun on his hip, not drawn. The Secret Service secured him and escorted him out. It's their job to remove the candidate whilst such events are unfolding. It also could have been a dry run I guess. There's no need for conspiracy theories regarding the Dems, they have already been caught on video paying thugs to disrupt Trump events.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wow Abby - keeping journalism alive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fat63bqvG8

"Makes TV News look like crayon drawings."

[GP]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37892138

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37892138

LOL

650K emails analysed in a week? Comey is being forced one way and then the next but he's not in charge any more. This just means the next round of releases now happens, which is what pretty much everyone was trying to avoid by the sounds of it. But the old hag won't go quietly.

[Letters]

I thought the FBI were in 'open revolt'. Now they're saying there's no evidence of criminality?
:shrug:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

the thing is there maybe evidence still to find of criminality, but it was clear nothing was going to be found on these particular e-mails because they were related to the aptly named Anthony Wiener who was married to one of Clinton's aides....unless he was sending classified dick pics to world leaders it seemed abundantly clear from the off this was utterly fatuous.

Comey was a Republican so his decision to go public about these e-mails could be little more than an attempt to slow down democratic momentum in the house and senate races, because these elections are often tied into the fate of presidential candidates the "coat tail" effect, and would explain why he has decided now there is no case to answer two days before the election where it's too late for any momentum swing back to the Democrats.

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought the FBI were in 'open revolt'. Now they're saying there's no evidence of criminality?
:shrug:

No, Comey is saying there's no criminality indicated in what must be a very small subset of duplicate emails that have been found in the latest cache. If you were aware of any of the technicalities involved in this, which I can confidently predict you aren't, you'd know that any new material would have to go to the relevant agency for confirmation of its status and this would of course take longer than a week.

[Niall_Quinn]

the thing is there maybe evidence still to find of criminality, but it was clear nothing was going to be found on these particular e-mails because they were related to the aptly named Anthony Wiener who was married to one of Clinton's aides....unless he was sending classified dick pics to world leaders it seemed abundantly clear from the off this was utterly fatuous.

Comey was a Republican so his decision to go public about these e-mails could be little more than an attempt to slow down democratic momentum in the house and senate races, because these elections are often tied into the fate of presidential candidates the "coat tail" effect, and would explain why he has decided now there is no case to answer two days before the election where it's too late for any momentum swing back to the Democrats.

Completely wrong on all counts. These emails relate to Abedin, not Weiner. And Comey being a republican has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. This investigation has not been closed, it wasn't closed before October and it's not closed now. Comey is not permitted to release information that might affect an election within a 6 month period prior to election day. So there's that question to be answered. And now he's done it again. At least three possibilities here. He's collaborating directly with the Clinton campaign and the Clinton related cache was scrubbed before his announcement (most likely as the FBI had this information for months). Or he's put his arse on the line to try to warn the electorate about the extent of Clinton criminality (highly unlikely because he could have called for indictment earlier instead of bowing to the compromised Justice department). Or the NYPD and lower tiers of the FBI put enough heat on him and he was forced to act. Maybe it's a combination of two or more. Maybe the Clinton Gang took advantage of internal disputes to set this up and maybe that's why the hag was calling for the emails to be released. We don't know what's going on inside those agencies but what we do know beyond all shadow of doubt (because Comey conformed this despite the fact he wouldn't take things further) is Clinton is corrupt and guilty of serious criminal activity. Apparently there's a poll out there that states 87% of Americans believe Clinton committed criminal actions. Well she did so that's encouraging. However, some 30 or 40% or Americans are still prepared to vote for her. So that means there are voters who believe Clinton is a criminal and yet they are going to vote for her. That's just staggering and shows the extent to which mental illness has gripped society in general.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Abedin who happens to be Weiner's ex wife and it's related to their investigation into him for sending indecent photographs to minors

I think if Comey was being bought off or threatened by the Clinton team, it's unlikely he would have brought this to the surface in the first place. And there is nothing saying information cannot be released it's generally considered not the done thing, and Comey's actions break with precedent rather than any strict regulation.

And as to your assertion that people must be mentally ill not to vote for Trump (no that's not directly what you've said, but it's the implication). I have no doubt the poll where the vast majority believe Clinton has acted in a criminal way is true, but i don't think Criminality is as binary as all that....plus the issue is not who they want as president it's who they don't want. America has a fair higher ethnic diversity than the UK, and Blacks and now Hispanics do not want to vote for someone they think is contemptuous of them, someone who they think will make their lives worse.

And that's why especially with Hispanics you are seeing record turnout in early voting

And i think there is a certain luxury to be disdainful of that if you are a white male (which i assume you are). People know in that country what Clinton is about from White water, to the denouncement of her husband's accusers and her own at the very least questionable behaviour whilst Secretary of State.....they might not like her or trust her to always behave in the right way, but there is far less uncertainty about her than there is about a man for whom all of this is a vanity project (you could argue that it is for most politicians but even they have policy goals and aims).

[Niall_Quinn]

This first.


And as to your assertion that people must be mentally ill not to vote for Trump (no that's not directly what you've said, but it's the implication).

Out of order, wouldn't you say? If I was a yank I wouldn't be voting for Trump so why do you think by focusing on the extreme immorality of Clinton voters I'd suddenly be driven to breaking my own principles? I'm not a believer in the lesser of two evils.

[Niall_Quinn]

And i think there is a certain luxury to be disdainful of that if you are a white male (which i assume you are).

I'm not.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This first.



Out of order, wouldn't you say? If I was a yank I wouldn't be voting for Trump so why do you think by focusing on the extreme immorality of Clinton voters I'd suddenly be driven to breaking my own principles? I'm not a believer in the lesser of two evils.

You wouldn't be voting full stop i'd assume

So not mentally ill but immoral?

You say you are not a believer in the lesser of two evils, but you stated the other day you hoped Trump won because he to you represents that very notion.

[Niall_Quinn]

And i think there is a certain luxury to be disdainful of that if you are a white male (which i assume you are). People know in that country what Clinton is about from White water, to the denouncement of her husband's accusers and her own at the very least questionable behaviour whilst Secretary of State.....they might not like her or trust her to always behave in the right way, but there is far less uncertainty about her than there is about a man for whom all of this is a vanity project (you could argue that it is for most politicians but even they have policy goals and aims).

It seems what you are saying here is that many people know the system is broken but they don't have enough personal respect to do anything about it. So they are guided down one of the two paths presented to them, without protest. Rather like the Jews who we are supposed to feel sorry for. Do you see how it works? If a Jew walks into a gas chamber then we lament. If a Palestinian says fuck that and fires a rocket into your face , well, fucking terrorist basically. Do you not sense a deep subservience and a crushing personal defeat baked into so many people? You can have sympathy for those people, but do you respect them? Deep down? Where is the line drawn? When do people eventually say no, this shit just isn't right and I don't care if it costs me personally today because I know sure as fuck it's going to cost me somewhere down the line. Now you look at the minority who are prepared to stand up or at least resist and can you see the true minority that is being abused? Black, white, alien, does it matter?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm not.

I'm sorry for my assumption Madam

[Niall_Quinn]

You wouldn't be voting full stop i'd assume

So not mentally ill but immoral?

You say you are not a believer in the lesser of two evils, but you stated the other day you hoped Trump won because he to you represents that very notion.

No, I said I wanted trump to win because he'll cause more chaos in the system. Not actual, nuclear war chaos, but Oh fuck, how do we control the rabble he brought with him? As I said, I wouldn't enjoy sitting down to dinner with that rabble, but I trust them to be more human that the fucking chattering, preening plastic people who claim civility. With Clinton you get 8 more years of a rapidly rotting system that will eventually result in total collapse. With Trump you get a pause and a regrouping. He won't change a damn thing in the long run but if we have to have one of these miscreants installed as the puppet king then Trump at least causes a tremor and offers the chance of delay while maybe a genuine resistance takes shape. Added to that, when Trump let's all those fervent supporters down there will be genuine outrage, maybe even enough outrage for a few people to stand up. Everyone will just go back to sleep if Clinton is selected.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It seems what you are saying here is that many people know the system is broken but they don't have enough personal respect to do anything about it. So they are guided down one of the two paths presented to them, without protest. Rather like the Jews who we are supposed to feel sorry for. Do you see how it works? If a Jew walks into a gas chamber then we lament. If a Palestinian says fuck that and fires a rocket into your face , well, fucking terrorist basically. Do you not sense a deep subservience and a crushing personal defeat baked into so many people? You can have sympathy for those people, but do you respect them? Deep down? Where is the line drawn? When do people eventually say no, this shit just isn't right and I don't care if it costs me personally today because I know sure as fuck it's going to cost me somewhere down the line. Now you look at the minority who are prepared to stand up or at least resist and can you see the true minority that is being abused? Black, white, alien, does it matter?

No i'm saying people don't have an all or nothing mentality, I'm saying they don't care enough about Clinton's misdemeanours to make it worthwhile either voting for Trump or abstaining and risking their fellow Americans taking advantage of their polling booth absence to vote him in.
You say race doesn't matter but for someone who has ran a campaign dividing the country down racial lines, it then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that people are going to vote according to ethnic self-interest.
Whether you agree with them or not, they don't look at Clinton and think she's going to make my life more difficult than it already is.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm sorry for my assumption Madam

Nobody really know anything much about anyone online.

[Niall_Quinn]

No i'm saying people don't have an all or nothing mentality, I'm saying they don't care enough about Clinton's misdemeanours to make it worthwhile either voting for Trump or abstaining and risking their fellow Americans taking advantage of their polling booth absence to vote him in.
You say race doesn't matter but for someone who has ran a campaign dividing the country down racial lines, it then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that people are going to vote according to ethnic self-interest.
Whether you agree with them or not, they don't look at Clinton and think she's going to make my life more difficult than it already is.

The bit highlighted could do with some explanation.

Trump has said illegal immigrants should be kicked out. I agree with that 100% and so do many American, Europeans, Australians, Indians I'll bet. I don't want borders at all and I'd prefer 100% free movement provided it was backed by the removal of the state and therefore the removal of the conditions that cause the mass migration of people. But if we must have these crappy systems and rules then at least let the fucking rules apply. This is what Trump has been told to say and it's not at all a racist message. Because the Clinton gang can't speak about policy because of its blatant track record it must instead create a crisis in opposition policy. If Latinos and blacks are stupid enough to continue voting for a party that has walled them into an underclass environment then that's their right. But they should at least find the time to figure out what racism actually is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nobody really know anything much about anyone online.

As it should be.

[Niall_Quinn]

As it should be.

Apart from Google of course.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The bit highlighted could do with some explanation.

Trump has said illegal immigrants should be kicked out. I agree with that 100% and so do many American, Europeans, Australians, Indians I'll bet. I don't want borders at all and I'd prefer 100% free movement provided it was backed by the removal of the state and therefore the removal of the conditions that cause the mass migration of people. But if we must have these crappy systems and rules then at least let the fucking rules apply. This is what Trump has been told to say and it's not at all a racist message. Because the Clinton gang can't speak about policy because of its blatant track record it must instead create a crisis in opposition policy. If Latinos and blacks are stupid enough to continue voting for a party that has walled them into an underclass environment then that's their right. But they should at least find the time to figure out what racism actually is.

Well if you are regarding everyone who has crossed the border as a rapist or having engaged in criminal behaviour additional to that of your immigration status the way Trump has, i think people are going to take that personally. You can have your opinion that they are over sensitive or stupid and you are entitled to that, but as you've stated that you support Trump as an agent of chaos...it is kind of understandable that people don't want chaos....especially when it's easy to be angry and say what you don't like and not so easy going forward to decide on what you do want as an alternative.

Of course there is an argument that freedom of movement benefits no-one but the big players in globalisation, i'm not unsympathetic to this argument. But this isn't really the basis of what Trump is campaigning for and even those that support Trump are exasperated by the racial polemic he has engaged in.

And let's be fair the system you hate benefits as much from a tougher immigration system as much as it does free movement, because employing illegals you have a more direct way to undercut wages.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well if you are regarding everyone who has crossed the border as a rapist or having engaged in criminal behaviour additional to that of your immigration status the way Trump has, i think people are going to take that personally. You can have your opinion that they are over sensitive or stupid and you are entitled to that, but as you've stated that you support Trump as an agent of chaos...it is kind of understandable that people don't want chaos....especially when it's easy to be angry and say what you don't like and not so easy going forward to decide on what you do want as an alternative.

Of course there is an argument that freedom of movement benefits no-one but the big players in globalisation, i'm not unsympathetic to this argument. But this isn't really the basis of what Trump is campaigning for and even those that support Trump are exasperated by the racial polemic he has engaged in.

And let's be fair the system you hate benefits as much from a tougher immigration system as much as it does free movement, because employing illegals you have a more direct way to undercut wages.

Everyone who has crossed the border illegally HAS engaged in criminal activity. Why pretend otherwise? By the rules upon which people will be voting to uphold. Not me, not people who believe in liberty, but those who participate in the anointment of the state. Why can't they accept and follow their own rules? Same with Clinton's criminality. Why are they voting for her instead of insisting she go to jail? What is it these voters actually believe in? Anything? Or do they believe in two starkly contrasting viewpoints at the same time? Yes they do.

As for chaos. War. Hunger. Homelessness. Banking bailouts and austerity. Structural fraud. Healthcare for profit. State abuse of children. Private sector abuse of the elderly. The destruction of the family. Why is this chaos tolerable and yet the potential disruption or disintegration of the state so terrifying? There are many kinds of chaos. Some of it is taught from birth as being normal and inevitable. Some of it is made taboo. We can guess which form of chaos is beneficial for the few at the expense of the many and we can just as easily guess which form of chaos is labelled as undesirable.

Me, personally, I can't conceive of such a thing as an illegal alien. How can it be illegal to walk from place to place on a planet you just so happen to have been born upon? Makes not one bit of sense. But if you keep on electing violent gangs who partition the planet up as their own little crime empires then suddenly you can be illegally walking on a planet you were born upon, so say the fuckers with the guns. And if everyone is coerced into the service of these gangs and the gang territory has x amount of resources then in order to survive you are compelled to play the survival game. Under the state system you can't have everyone crammed into one place even if every other place is being bombed to hell and has become unfit to live in. It's a cruel analysis but that's unsurprising as the condition is caused by insane criminals after all. If we accept this as somehow normal, THEN we can talk about the "rights" and the "wrongs" of it. But what I say is if you endorse fucked up, immoral laws the live by them in a bed of your own making. So kick the illegals out. Men, women, children. Put them in a truck, drive them over the border and kick their arses into the desert because this is quite normal behaviour for human beings as things currently stand (which is why most are mentally ill because their brains get overloaded by the dire emergency warnings from their consciences). And play the other side too. When you want their stuff just go and bomb the shit out of them. Best of both worlds is bomb them out of their own country then deny them access to yours. Talk about a win win. But neither candidate has had the guts to go for the big prize. One wants to bomb them and let them in to boost the electoral turnout (still quite a good win win but there are costs attached), the other isn't so keen on the bombing (he hasn't met the Joint Chief's of Death and Mayhem yet) so feels justified in asking them to piss off. And so I guess you could call Trump half a humanitarian as things stand, provided you use the language of the looney bin and don't stray into reality.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Everyone who has crossed the border illegally HAS engaged in criminal activity. Why pretend otherwise? By the rules upon which people will be voting to uphold. Not me, not people who believe in liberty, but those who participate in the anointment of the state. Why can't they accept and follow their own rules? Same with Clinton's criminality. Why are they voting for her instead of insisting she go to jail? What is it these voters actually believe in? Anything? Or do they believe in two starkly contrasting viewpoints at the same time? Yes they do.

As for chaos. War. Hunger. Homelessness. Banking bailouts and austerity. Structural fraud. Healthcare for profit. State abuse of children. Private sector abuse of the elderly. The destruction of the family. Why is this chaos tolerable and yet the potential disruption or disintegration of the state so terrifying? There are many kinds of chaos. Some of it is taught from birth as being normal and inevitable. Some of it is made taboo. We can guess which form of chaos is beneficial for the few at the expense of the many and we can just as easily guess which form of chaos is labelled as undesirable.

Me, personally, I can't conceive of such a thing as an illegal alien. How can it be illegal to walk from place to place on a planet you just so happen to have been born upon? Makes not one bit of sense. But if you keep on electing violent gangs who partition the planet up as their own little crime empires then suddenly you can be illegally walking on a planet you were born upon, so say the fuckers with the guns. And if everyone is coerced into the service of these gangs and the gang territory has x amount of resources then in order to survive you are compelled to play the survival game. Under the state system you can't have everyone crammed into one place even if every other place is being bombed to hell and has become unfit to live in. It's a cruel analysis but that's unsurprising as the condition is caused by insane criminals after all. If we accept this as somehow normal, THEN we can talk about the "rights" and the "wrongs" of it. But what I say is if you endorse fucked up, immoral laws the live by them in a bed of your own making. So kick the illegals out. Men, women, children. Put them in a truck, drive them over the border and kick their arses into the desert because this is quite normal behaviour for human beings as things currently stand (which is why most are mentally ill because their brains get overloaded by the dire emergency warnings from their consciences). And play the other side too. When you want their stuff just go and bomb the shit out of them. Best of both worlds is bomb them out of their own country then deny them access to yours. Talk about a win win. But neither candidate has had the guts to go for the big prize. One wants to bomb them and let them in to boost the electoral turnout (still quite a good win win but there are costs attached), the other isn't so keen on the bombing (he hasn't met the Joint Chief's of Death and Mayhem yet) so feels justified in asking them to piss off. And so I guess you could call Trump half a humanitarian as things stand, provided you use the language of the looney bin and don't stray into reality.

I could answer all of these almost philosophical issues you raise, but i suspect i wouldn't be doing myself or the questions justice in a paragraph or two.

Because clearly these go far beyond the remit of an election in one country.

[GP]

Let me be clear, breakfast means breakfast.

[Letters]

Nobody really know anything much about anyone online.

Interesting you say that given how much you seem to have concluded about me...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Interesting you say that given how much you seem to have concluded about me...

You do take it all so personally.

[Letters]

Well, it's personally directed at me, so... :shrug:

I'm not bothered by it if that's what you mean, as he/she's said, he/she doesn't really know the first thing about me.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, it's personally directed at me, so... :shrug:

I'm not bothered by it if that's what you mean, as he/she's said, he/she doesn't really know the first thing about me.

Dream on.

[Letters]

I see. All the things you've said about me while replying to my posts must be directed at someone else then :lol:

[GP]

I see. All the things you've said about me while replying to my posts must be directed at someone else then :lol:

Stop Remoaning! Democracy has spoken!!

[Letters]

I lost, get over it! :(

[LDG]

SOLD!

Bye bye house :wave: :upset:

[Letters]

Apparently our buyer has now instructed her solicitor. God alone knows why she's only just done that. :ilt:
Will have to call the conveyancer later to see what the hell is going on. Not much, it seems :(.

[Niall_Quinn]

I see. All the things you've said about me while replying to my posts must be directed at someone else then :lol:

It's not personal, you fucking numbnut. I use you as a poster child for the unthinking majority, that's all. Shit, we only have 10 members on here. Get some more people on and I'll pick a different drone.

[Letters]

It's not personal.
you fucking numbnut.
:lol:

No, you're an oxymoron.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Anyone staying up for US election results? :unsure:

[adzzzbatch]

Nah couldn't really give a shit. Their election system is shit, their whole system of governance is shit.

If there's a voting method that can make FPTP look reasonable it's Yankland's!

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Nah couldn't really give a shit. Their election system is shit, their whole system of governance is shit.

If there's a voting method that can make FPTP look reasonable it's Yankland's!

Don't disagree with any of that. Their two year almost perptual cycle of campaigning is especially corrosive to a functioning democracy and actually getting shit done, however ................. you can't deny that it's fucking entertaining as fuck. So many lols this cycle due to Trump.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

No, you're an oxymoron.

Poor lamb.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyone staying up for US election results? :unsure:

Absolutely.

[GP]

The outcome is already decided.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nah couldn't really give a shit. Their election system is shit, their whole system of governance is shit.

If there's a voting method that can make FPTP look reasonable it's Yankland's!

America is a FPTP system

[Niall_Quinn]

America is a FPTP system

Americans are voting for a bunch of individuals in each state tonight who will then vote to decide the outcome. Traditionally they follow the will of the public but they are under no legal obligation to do so.

[Letters]

Anyone staying up for US election results? :unsure:

Dear God no. For one thing I'm still a bit jet-lagged, and secondly I'd rather just wake up and then kill myself if Trump's won :ilt:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Americans are voting for a bunch of individuals in each state tonight who will then vote to decide the outcome. Traditionally they follow the will of the public but they are under no legal obligation to do so.

Yes I'm aware of the electoral college and the concept of "faithless electors"

But to all intents and purposes its first past the post. Apart from Maine and Nebraska where one of their congressional districts is up for grabs by the other guy even if the state is awarded to one of them.

It would be interesting how things would go if the electors were proportionally awarded rather than winner takes all.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Anyone staying up for US election results? :unsure:

I've watched every US Election since Bush vs Gore in 2000

But that was all monther, not all nighter. 16 years on no one is any the wiser as to who won that one.

Florida has always held itself to the same high electoral standards of countries like Zimbabwe or Egypt.

[Niall_Quinn]

I've watched every US Election since Bush vs Gore in 2000

But that was all monther, not all nighter. 16 years on no one is any the wiser as to who won that one.

Florida has always held itself to the same high electoral standards of countries like Zimbabwe or Egypt.

PA is fighting Florida for the rigging election award tonight and seems to be doing very well.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

PA is fighting Florida for the rigging election award tonight and seems to be doing very well.

Obviously not enough white guys with Make America Great Again baseball caps and Baseball Bats to monitor the situation

[Niall_Quinn]

Obviously not enough white guys with Make America Great Again baseball caps and Baseball Bats to monitor the situation

I thought Podesta stopped hiring those guys once he got caught?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I've watched every US Election since Bush vs Gore in 2000

But that was all monther, not all nighter. 16 years on no one is any the wiser as to who won that one.

Florida has always held itself to the same high electoral standards of countries like Zimbabwe or Egypt.

Hate to be one of the patronising lecturing Europeans, but I find the whole concept of long waiting lines at polling centres, partisan election officials and active voter suppression efforts just disgusting especially in a country that's meant to be one of the beacons of democracy to the world.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hate to be one of the patronising lecturing Europeans, but I find the whole concept of long waiting lines at polling centres, partisan election officials and active voter suppression efforts just disgusting especially in a country that's meant to be one of the beacons of democracy to the world.

You say that but if they don't, who is going to stop Blacks from voting

Seriously though the whole qeueing up to vote thing is ridiculous. If you can provide enough ID to order a passport or drivers licence online you should be able to vote online. Wouldn't be having this too close to call shit unless the numbers were close enough in a state to warrant a mandatory recount.

[Niall_Quinn]

You say that but if they don't, who is going to stop Blacks from voting

Seriously though the whole qeueing up to vote thing is ridiculous. If you can provide enough ID to order a passport or drivers licence online you should be able to vote online. Wouldn't be having this too close to call shit unless the numbers were close enough in a state to warrant a mandatory recount.

Seriously? You want to hand it over to a state run web operation? Have you forgotten Obamacare so soon? That web operation cost over a billion and didn't work for a year. Meanwhile 3 blokes knocked up an alternative in their garage in 3 days and for zero dollars and zero cents. The black boxes are bad enough. It should always be paper ballots and proper audit trails because that's a lot harder to rig.

[Kano]

Hate to be one of the patronising lecturing Europeans, but I find the whole concept of long waiting lines at polling centres, partisan election officials and active voter suppression efforts just disgusting especially in a country that's meant to be one of the beacons of democracy to the world.
It's best not too look down our noses when only three months ago the 'law governors' in this country backed up Labour's NEC decision to stop 130,000 new members voting in a blatant attempt to corrupt the process. It was a last ditch, desperate move trying to stop an inevitable result because they didn't have the nerve to go the whole hog and rig the votes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's best not too look down our noses when only three months ago the 'law governors' in this country backed up Labour's NEC decision to stop 130,000 new members voting in a blatant attempt to corrupt the process. It was a last ditch, desperate move trying to stop an inevitable result because they didn't have the nerve to go the whole hog and rig the votes.

You do realise that other political parties do impose mandatory freeze dates for voting in leadership contests

Plus it's odd how people criticise the NEC for imposing the freeze date (which Corbyn could have blocked if he hadn't decided to leave after the vote to put him on the ballot, but then that's typical of the stupidity of the guy) and praising them for ensuring he was automatically on the ballot, when even the guy who wrote the clause said it was ambiguous at best.

Let's face it Labour have far bigger problems than not allowing silly buggers to vote, on both wings it's bereft of imagination and ideas and very soon it's going to face oblivion. I won't shed any tears when that happens

[The Emirates Gallactico]

It's best not too look down our noses when only three months ago the 'law governors' in this country backed up Labour's NEC decision to stop 130,000 new members voting in a blatant attempt to corrupt the process. It was a last ditch, desperate move trying to stop an inevitable result because they didn't have the nerve to go the whole hog and rig the votes.

No offence but that's completely different and not really relevant. The Labour party, just like the Republicans and the Democrats in the states are a private party. How they administer their own internal elections to select their leader is up to them and people always have the option of leaving the party and joining another one if they don't like those rules.

It's wholly different to what's going on in the states where minorities, namely African Americans are deliberately being systematically disenfranchised from the entire electoral process through corrupt partisan officials.

[Niall_Quinn]

Watching the war criminal Karl Rove just sitting there without being arrested is pretty fucking offensive. How many civilians paid the price for his fucked up policies? Just sitting there, laughing and joking. What a fucked up world.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Trump leading in Florida with a small but stubborn lead there.

Hillary could actually lose this. Got to admit, I'm sweating like a dog here.

[Niall_Quinn]

Trump leading in Florida with a small but stubborn lead there.

Hillary could actually lose this. Got to admit, I'm sweating like a dog here.

With absolutely everything stacked in her favour she can't even make a showing in Virginia. Running against Donald Trump FFS! That's how much this creature is hated.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

She's not the best candidate I admit. Obama or Biden would be romping home already.


Anyway a bunch of inbred hick states just came in for Trump, whilst we're still waiting for any of the big four of Ohio, North Carolina, Florida and Virginia to be called.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Jesus christ this looks really bad for Hillary right now. Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin, usually reliably democratic are now red. Fuck.

The orange one has done this.

[Niall_Quinn]

The sub-human slime are cashing out on the stock exchange. Don't these vampires ever use their coffins any more? They seem awfully concerned their crooked, criminal candidate hasn't already been ushered in.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wisconsin gone. Blue wall down.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Oh well, I'll just have to pray that Trump doesn't trigger a global depression or start WW3 or a nuclear winter because the president of China says he has small hands.

Well fucking done America.

On the positive side, at least they'll be comedy.

[Letters]

Dear God no. For one thing I'm still a bit jet-lagged, and secondly I'd rather just wake up and then kill myself if Trump's won :ilt:

Me :pal:

:ilt:

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2016/11/09/america-thick-as-pig-shit/

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Ridiculous media are in full arse covering mode. Too late. Busted.

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2016/11/09/ooh-fuck/

:haha:

[GP]

Jesus christ this looks really bad for Hillary right now. Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin, usually reliably democratic are now red. Fuck.

The orange one has done this.

Orange is the new black

[Marc Overmars]

Trump on the brink of victory apparently.

Christ.

[adzzzbatch]

Clinton refuses to concede what a hypocrite!

[Letters]

"Trump Won’t be Allowed to Win" - Assange

Conspiracy :lol:
Awlful theorists.

[Letters]

Clinton refuses to concede what a hypocrite!

How so?

The result isn't finalised yet although it's clear how it's going to go now. I'm sure when the result is finalised she'll accept it, what Trump was saying was if he lost he wouldn't accept the result - well, he wouldn't commit to doing so.

[adzzzbatch]

They said that about brexit too :lol:

[Letters]

I literally have no idea what that means, adzz.

[adzzzbatch]

How so?

The result isn't finalised yet although it's clear how it's going to go now. I'm sure when the result is finalised she'll accept it, what Trump was saying was if he lost he wouldn't accept the result - well, he wouldn't commit to doing so.

Apparently she has now. In past elections (except for that year when Florida had a recount) the losing candidate has often conceded once it became pretty clear that they couldn't win.

[adzzzbatch]

I literally have no idea what that means, adzz.

That was a reply to "trump won't be allowed to win"

[Letters]

That was a reply to "trump won't be allowed to win"

Oh I see :lol:


Innit :ilt:

[Thierrymon]

America :doh: :lol:

We're all fucked.

[adzzzbatch]

The inauguration in January will be an interesting affair :popcorn:

[Marc Overmars]

First Brexit now Trump.

I think we underestimate how full of hate the population of the world are.

[Letters]

Sad times. Hate and fear won over here, now it's won over there.
Earth :rose:
:upset:


Anyone got a spare nuclear bunker btw? Asking for a friend.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

As bad a candidate as Hilary Clinton was, I don't think it made any difference

[Letters]

Really? I honestly don't think Trump could have won against many candidates. Clinton really is hated out there.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Who though? Who would have stopped him surging in the mid west taking states the republicans haven't won in over thirty years?.

This was the industrial mid west the rust belt, working class whites saying they've had enough.

This wasn't about hatred of her, I'm sure she isn't well liked but I don't think even Obama could have won last night.

[Letters]

She was ahead in the polls till the email thing, although polls seem to be increasingly unreliable. Apart from the angry mobs no-one really seemed to like either candidate, I think if there was a candidate who people actually liked then they'd have won easily.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't agree with a lot of what NQ says, but I think he identified a push back against Globalisation and that's pretty much what this is.



Brexit and this are about people feeling they have lost their values and what they stood for.

Although where he believes all states should be abolished, this is a push towards nationalism and not away from it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

She was ahead in the polls till the email thing, although polls seem to be increasingly unreliable. Apart from the angry mobs no-one really seemed to like either candidate, I think if there was a candidate who people actually liked then they'd have won easily.

Maybe but he won states he never had a lead in last night like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. This wasn't a single issue matter, this is fuck politicians voting.

As much as I can't abide Michael Moore, he had it spot on people were clearly not being honest about their voting intention. Yes you have the people wearing Make America great again baseball caps who seem to display an ignorance. But there were clearly those who didn't want to be lumped in with that crowd who just thought, enough is enough.

[Letters]

I did have a nagging feeling that a lot of people weren't admitting it but would end up voting for Trump.
And I kinda understand the "f*** politicians" mindset but THIS is the alternative? Really? Is that really better? Sheesh!

[GP]

I wonder if things would have been different had Sanders been the nominee.

Probably not. This is too insane for words.

Donald fucking Trump. Honestly.

[Letters]

It's increasingly clear that David Bowie was holding the fabric of the universe together.

[Goonermerree]

Sad times. Hate and fear won over here, now it's won over there.
Earth :rose:
:upset:


Anyone got a spare nuclear bunker btw? Asking for a friend.

It's not about hate and fear, it's ordinary people feeling that they are losing their voice. I hate Trump, but he's appealed the ordinary guy who feels Trump has something to offer them, for the most part.

[Niall_Quinn]

Who though? Who would have stopped him surging in the mid west taking states the republicans haven't won in over thirty years?.

This was the industrial mid west the rust belt, working class whites saying they've had enough.

This wasn't about hatred of her, I'm sure she isn't well liked but I don't think even Obama could have won last night.

That's so above his head you'd best get him a trampoline.

[Niall_Quinn]

I did have a nagging feeling that a lot of people weren't admitting it but would end up voting for Trump.
And I kinda understand the "f*** politicians" mindset but THIS is the alternative? Really? Is that really better? Sheesh!

Bwahahaha! LOL.

:haha:

[Goonermerree]

I have a nagging feeling that he won't last four years, but hey, I thought we were going to beat Tottscum, so what do I know?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not about hate and fear, it's ordinary people feeling that they are losing their voice. I hate Trump, but he's appealed the ordinary guy who feels Trump has something to offer them, for the most part.

Don't be silly. The only way the establishment and their cock boy Letters ever lose is if racists and thickos gang up on them.

[Power n Glory]

People need their heads testing if they think Mr 'Grab em by the Pussy' Trump is going to lead them anywhere. He's a product of the establishment and doesn't give a shit about ordinary people. He's just gamed the system. What makes him different from a politician is that he's brazen and brash enough to say who he's fucking over. That doesn't make him a better choice. Well done, America! They're going to feel this one.

[Goonermerree]

People need their heads testing if they think Mr 'Grab em by the Pussy' Trump is going to lead them anywhere. He's a product of the establishment and doesn't give a shit about ordinary people. He's just gamed the system. What makes him different from a politician is that he's brazen and brash enough to say who he's fucking over. That doesn't make him a better choice. Well done, America! They're going to feel this one.

I agree with that too, I'm not sure he can deliver what he's offered even if he wants to. Reporters this morning said that he could say what he wanted to, whereas the career politician had to toe the line more. But ordinary Americans heard what they wanted to or needed to hear. (I wonder if some just couldn't vote for the first female President?)

[Letters]

It's not about hate and fear, it's ordinary people feeling that they are losing their voice. I hate Trump, but he's appealed the ordinary guy who feels Trump has something to offer them, for the most part.

I sympathise with that feeling, but really? That's the alternative? What exactly is he offering them? What of substance has he said?
He says a load of stuff which isn't going to happen or that just isn't true and the things which are making people whoop and cheer are things like building a wall, stopping Muslims coming into the country, killing terrorist families.
That isn't promoting hate and fear? Just look at some of the ways protesters were treated and dealt with at his rallies. It's pretty scary.

[Letters]

It's not personal.

their cock boy Letters.
:haha:

[Goonermerree]

I sympathise with that feeling, but really? That's the alternative? What exactly is he offering them? What of substance has he said?
He says a load of stuff which isn't going to happen or that just isn't true and the things which are making people whoop and cheer are things like building a wall, stopping Muslims coming into the country, killing terrorist families.
That isn't promoting hate and fear? Just look at some of the ways protesters were treated and dealt with at his rallies. It's pretty scary.

But you can't lump them all together. Some republicans will always vote republicans because the democrats are trying to take away their guns. There is a lot of poverty in America, and that was before the recession, you would think that the democrats would help them more, but Trump told them what they wanted to hear and they voted for him. That's it!

[GP]

http://thumbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/funny-gif-Zach-Galifianakis-Obama-president1.gif

[Power n Glory]

But you can't lump them all together. Some republicans will always vote republicans because the democrats are trying to take away their guns. There is a lot of poverty in America, and that was before the recession, you would think that the democrats would help them more, but Trump told them what they wanted to hear and they voted for him. That's it!

That's what makes them stupid for voting Trump in. When Trump fails them in a spectacular fashion and fucks them over, maybe they'll learn. But I doubt it. George W Bush wasn't that long ago.

[Goonermerree]

That's what makes them stupid for voting Trump in. When Trump fails them in a spectacular fashion and fucks them over, maybe they'll learn. But I doubt it. George W Bush wasn't that long ago.

I don't think he will deliver what he has said he will, I'm just saying why I thing they have voted for him, and in their droves. He has won the popular vote as well.
And he'll have more power than Obama did, as the republicans have won the house and senate , congress or whichever the two are.

[Niall_Quinn]

People need their heads testing if they think Mr 'Grab em by the Pussy' Trump is going to lead them anywhere. He's a product of the establishment and doesn't give a shit about ordinary people. He's just gamed the system. What makes him different from a politician is that he's brazen and brash enough to say who he's fucking over. That doesn't make him a better choice. Well done, America! They're going to feel this one.

The only thing that could have come out of this election was a crushing defeat for the career criminal Clinton, her hillbilly rapist husband, the deviants they surround themselves with and the establishment that was riding the same train in anticipation of another unrestricted 4 years of globalist bullshit. Now there will need to be a pause while all the roaches scuttle around and try to find new places in the nest. That's a good thing for every person on the planet except the tiny majority that normally have everything arranged just so. And there's even a bonus. We had the black fella pull some wool and now we have the guy who is the champion of the people. Eventually enough Americans are going to figure this shit out and then we might see a real reversal for the establishment. We aren't going forward but at least we are no longer rushing backwards and there does appear to be some hope given what's happening all across the world right now, including even in our own pussy whipped land of queuers.

[Letters]

But you can't lump them all together. Some republicans will always vote republicans because the democrats are trying to take away their guns. There is a lot of poverty in America, and that was before the recession, you would think that the democrats would help them more, but Trump told them what they wanted to hear and they voted for him. That's it!

What did he say that they wanted to hear? That he's going to "make America great again"? What does that even mean? And how is he going to do that?
He has said a load of vague stuff which does play well to a certain demographic but there's no substance to any of it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

This succinctly explains what happened better than any post electoral analysis, and this was written almost a month ago.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree with that too, I'm not sure he can deliver what he's offered even if he wants to. Reporters this morning said that he could say what he wanted to, whereas the career politician had to toe the line more. But ordinary Americans heard what they wanted to or needed to hear. (I wonder if some just couldn't vote for the first female President?)

Or possibly they couldn't bring themselves to vote for a career criminal? Anyone who voted for that bitch really needs to have a word with themselves.

[Kano]

I agree with that too, I'm not sure he can deliver what he's offered even if he wants to. Reporters this morning said that he could say what he wanted to, whereas the career politician had to toe the line more. But ordinary Americans heard what they wanted to or needed to hear. (I wonder if some just couldn't vote for the first female President?)
People are just fucking idiots. So they'll vote in whoever pulls the best con job every five years. Then the 'hope' dies after a few years and some other numpty comes along with a new pitch. What this result does show is that the fallacy of presenting policies never truly mattered in this modern age, probably never at all, this being the pinnacle of the cult of personality. Just literally making it up as you go along, not hiding that fact at all. This was the right choice to make and hopefully, although ugly and even chaotic in the near future, the first step towards people finally riding themselves of the need for bullshit salespeople running their lives.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Or possibly they couldn't bring themselves to vote for a career criminal? Anyone who voted for that bitch really needs to have a word with themselves.

I honestly don't think whoever had been chosen by the democrats would have beaten Trump

[Power n Glory]

The only thing that could have come out of this election was a crushing defeat for the career criminal Clinton, her hillbilly rapist husband, the deviants they surround themselves with and the establishment that was riding the same train in anticipation of another unrestricted 4 years of globalist bullshit. Now there will need to be a pause while all the roaches scuttle around and try to find new places in the nest. That's a good thing for every person on the planet except the tiny majority that normally have everything arranged just so. And there's even a bonus. We had the black fella pull some wool and now we have the guy who is the champion of the people. Eventually enough Americans are going to figure this shit out and then we might see a real reversal for the establishment. We aren't going forward but at least we are no longer rushing backwards and there does appear to be some hope given what's happening all across the world right now, including even in our own pussy whipped land of queuers.

You're delusional. We're not even close to a revaluation. Donald Trump is a career criminal and the worst kind. He's a product of what you deplore most.

[Goonermerree]

What did he say that they wanted to hear? That he's going to "make America great again"? What does that even mean? And how is he going to do that?
He has said a load of vague stuff which does play well to a certain demographic but there's no substance to any of it.

He said he was going to bring jobs back and that if businesses took their factories away form the S, then he would put a big tariff on the goods they sold in the US.

[Letters]

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-american-tragedy-donald-trump

[Letters]

He said he was going to bring jobs back and that if businesses took their factories away form the S, then he would put a big tariff on the goods they sold in the US.

But the US unemployment rate has been steadily falling for years. As Jim Jeffries said, he's like a kid running for class president going around saying "and we're going to have two lunchtimes and there'll be a soda machine in every classroom..."
Sheesh. Any idiot can say stuff that sounds good. He won't do any of it, most of the time he's not even saying how he'll do things.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You're delusional. We're not even close to a revaluation. Donald Trump is a career criminal and the worst kind. He's a product of what you deplore most.

The problem is clearly how those who have been for so long ignored and belittled (even by myself in this country) that the ground becomes fertile for men like Trump to succeed.

Small communities and the industries they worked in have been battered unrecognisably over the last thirty years, and yet we call them racist or stupid when they've finally had enough and turn towards the person who promises to make it better for them even if they have no intention of doing so.

If we don't hear the alarm clock ringing now, we are going to find ourselves sleep walking into a very unpleasant future.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But the US unemployment rate has been steadily falling for years. As Jim Jeffries said, he's like a kid running for class president going around saying "and we're going to have two lunchtimes and there'll be a soda machine in every classroom..."
Sheesh. Any idiot can say stuff that sounds good. He won't do any of it, most of the time he's not even saying how he'll do things.

What jobs though Letters? Service industry jobs in big cities where people can't afford to live

It's happening all over the world. My brother is married to a Fillipino and in many respects Duterte is their equivalent of Trump, and their economy was booming but who was feeling the benefit?. People having to crowd their way into Manilla and other big cities from the provinces to find work.

The difference between Duterte and Trump, is that although I find extra judicial murders of suspected drug users/pushers is absolutely wrong he is in many ways living up to the promises he made towards improving life for working people. Trump doesn't give a shit about them and has used them as a platform for his own benefit.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're delusional. We're not even close to a revaluation. Donald Trump is a career criminal and the worst kind. He's a product of what you deplore most.

This is a Trump vs Clinton thing for you. Fine. But it's not like that for me. Just the same as the clowns staging Remain vs Brexit were irrelevant. So I think it's safe enough to count me out of the delusional camp. The only important thing that happened in this election was a bang to rights criminal who traded her office and state secrets was placed in front of the people who were then asked to endorse her. If she had won then there would be no hope whatsoever. If it really was possible to sell a commander in chief who was above the law and quite obviously could not be trusted to be a notional commander in chief that would basically have confirmed anything is possible. Yes, so people fell for a bunch of lies again, the whole point of this carnival is to endorse the idea that people need permission from their betters to live their lives. But at least we know there are limits and that's something. As history shows, a genuine revolution will arrive in time. But before that can even be contemplated you have to head towards it instead of away from it. We might be sadly a million miles away this morning but at least it's not two million miles which is the destination the Clinton/ Bush crime syndicate offered. It should all be obvious but unfortunately it isn't for so many. Bush, Clinton, Bush, the emergency black guy, Clinton. So very obvious.

[Power n Glory]

This is a Trump vs Clinton thing for you. Fine. But it's not like that for me. Just the same as the clowns staging Remain vs Brexit were irrelevant. So I think it's safe enough to count me out of the delusional camp. The only important thing that happened in this election was a bang to rights criminal who traded her office and state secrets was placed in front of the people who were then asked to endorse her. If she had won then there would be no hope whatsoever. If it really was possible to sell a commander in chief who was above the law and quite obviously could not be trusted to be a notional commander in chief that would basically have confirmed anything is possible. Yes, so people fell for a bunch of lies again, the whole point of this carnival is to endorse the idea that people need permission from their betters to live their lives. But at least we know there are limits and that's something. As history shows, a genuine revolution will arrive in time. But before that can even be contemplated you have to head towards it instead of away from it. We might be sadly a million miles away this morning but at least it's not two million miles which is the destination the Clinton/ Bush crime syndicate offered. It should all be obvious but unfortunately it isn't for so many. Bush, Clinton, Bush, the emergency black guy, Clinton. So very obvious.

You're giving people too much credit. They've just fallen for the same lie and line as usual but it's now it's being delivered by the guy that has avoided paying taxes and benefited from those past corrupt regimes but has stayed hidden in the background and never had to be held accountable for his actions.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-american-tragedy-donald-trump

LOL. I guess Clinton won't be getting so many big donations from that feminist haven Saudi Arabia now she's yesterday's thing. Maybe Remnick was on commission? Poor bastard. American elects a black guy as a sign of the racism that bubbles under the cyber-surface. LOL. High time people started flocking back to CNN and their highly accurate polls. The smell of fear with these people is powerful. Good. It's nice they are afraid for a change.

[selassie]

The problem is clearly how those who have been for so long ignored and belittled (even by myself in this country) that the ground becomes fertile for men like Trump to succeed.

Small communities and the industries they worked in have been battered unrecognisably over the last thirty years, and yet we call them racist or stupid when they've finally had enough and turn towards the person who promises to make it better for them even if they have no intention of doing so.

If we don't hear the alarm clock ringing now, we are going to find ourselves sleep walking into a very unpleasant future.

Sadly this is about right though I think Racism is for another topic.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're giving people too much credit. They've just fallen for the same lie and line as usual but it's now it's being delivered by the guy that has avoided paying taxes and benefited from those past corrupt regimes but has stayed hidden in the background and never had to be held accountable for his actions.

You seem to have difficulty distinguishing white collar crime (aka standard business practices) from serious fucking shit that leaves hundreds of thousands of people dead. Whatever the reason people didn't bite on Clinton's rotten apple, the main thing is they didn't bite. That's important. Fewer Syrians, Iranians, Iraqis will die as a result and that's a good thing.

[Power n Glory]

But the US unemployment rate has been steadily falling for years. As Jim Jeffries said, he's like a kid running for class president going around saying "and we're going to have two lunchtimes and there'll be a soda machine in every classroom..."
Sheesh. Any idiot can say stuff that sounds good. He won't do any of it, most of the time he's not even saying how he'll do things.

We've all seen that Simposns episode.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hannity grinning ear to ear. Damn, it must hurt to be a libtard this morning, having to take it right up the shitter from a guy like that and not being able to do a damn thing about it. Butt hurt isn't even close. Very entertaining.

[selassie]

You seem to have difficulty distinguishing white collar crime (aka standard business practices) from serious fucking shit that leaves hundreds of thousands of people dead. Whatever the reason people didn't bite on Clinton's rotten apple, the main thing is they didn't bite. That's important. Fewer Syrians, Iranians, Iraqis will die as a result and that's a good thing.

And Trump's Policies were as clean as a whistle. Oh lord.... :lol:

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Foreign_Policy.htm

[Power n Glory]

You seem to have difficulty distinguishing white collar crime (aka standard business practices) from serious fucking shit that leaves hundreds of thousands of people dead. Whatever the reason people didn't bite on Clinton's rotten apple, the main thing is they didn't bite. That's important. Fewer Syrians, Iranians, Iraqis will die as a result and that's a good thing.

Wait, do you think people voted because they're worried about Syrians? :haha: Give me a break. When Trump is faced with similar situations, what do you think he'll do?

[Letters]

We've all seen that Simposns episode.

Abortions for some, tiny American flags for others!

[selassie]

And Trump's Policies were as clean as a whistle. Oh lord.... :lol:

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Foreign_Policy.htm

And this....

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_War_+_Peace.htm

[Power n Glory]

And Trump's Policies were as clean as a whistle. Oh lord.... :lol:

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Foreign_Policy.htm


Exactly! :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

And Trump's Policies were as clean as a whistle. Oh lord.... :lol:

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Foreign_Policy.htm

Again, there's a huge difference between some guy sounding off to get elected and a woman that is directly responsible for slaughtering hundreds of thousands of human beings. There just is. And if Trump carries on where Obama/ Clinton left off then sure, he joins the ranks of the war criminals and serial killers than we've seen stream through our hallowed parliaments over the decades. But right now there's simply no comparison. Why it even has to be explained that it's a good thing people rejected that woman is tough to understand. Reasoning seems to be, well maybe Trump is Hitler, therefore let's stick with the Hilter we know. So maybe Trump won't be Hitler. At least it's possible for that to happen, whereas with Clinton it's not. She's already joined that club and it can't be un-joined.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wait, do you think people voted because they're worried about Syrians? :haha: Give me a break. When Trump is faced with similar situations, what do you think he'll do?

Where did I say people voted because they are worried about Syrians? I'm saying I'm very pleased and relieved the majority did not vote for a career criminal and mass killer. Me. Not Joe Blo, as Moore would put it. I'm saying it would have marked a very nasty downturn had the majority voted in this creature, for any reason. It would have suggested the American population has moved beyond redemption. I'm pleased that didn't happen.

[Kano]

And this....

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_War_+_Peace.htm

This is the thing Selass, no one cared about the policies and why should they? People kid themselves every election into thinking these things matter, when hardly any - if any - are implemented. And then a new one comes along with new promise...round and round we go. He didn't hide the fact he was making it all up as he went along and yet people still bought into it. So when people begin to see through him, as is always the case, the they'll have a real choice to make. Do they go back to the tired and trusted corrupt politicians that have fucked up the world to this point, go even further right wing or say enough is enough?

[Power n Glory]

Where did I say people voted because they are worried about Syrians? I'm saying I'm very pleased and relieved the majority did not vote for a career criminal and mass killer. Me. Not Joe Blo, as Moore would put it. I'm saying it would have marked a very nasty downturn had the majority voted in this creature, for any reason. It would have suggested the American population has moved beyond redemption. I'm pleased that didn't happen.

:doh: Why does not voting for Hilary suggest they're not beyond redemption when they've voted for a candidate that hasn't suggested he'll do anything different to what Hilary when it comes to mass killing? They've thrown their support behind an unethical business man and now he has the keys to the White House. We've seen how he handles things as a successful business man. 'Grab em by the Pussy, you can do what you want! :lol: Great! Let's give him more power and see how far he takes things.

[WMUG]

https://twitter.com/SimpsonsQOTD/status/796271879300456448

[Letters]

https://twitter.com/SimpsonsQOTD/status/796271879300456448

:haha:

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2016/11/09/us-to-replace-national-anthem-with-the-benny-hill-theme/

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

:doh: Why does not voting for Hilary suggest they're not beyond redemption when they've voted for a candidate that hasn't suggested he'll do anything different to what Hilary when it comes to mass killing? They've thrown their support behind an unethical business man and now he has the keys to the White House. We've seen how he handles things as a successful business man. 'Grab em by the Pussy, you can do what you want! :lol: Great! Let's give him more power and see how far he takes things.

What are you on about? This is a simple concept. Clinton has committed crimes against humanity. Trump hasn't. He might, most American presidents do. But he hasn't yet whereas Clinton has. So don't vote for the one who has. Don't vote for anyone preferably, but definitely don't vote for the bitch who kills people. What is it with politics that makes people forget these human fundamentals?

[Niall_Quinn]

This is the thing Selass, no one cared about the policies and why should they? People kid themselves every election into thinking these things matter, when hardly any - if any - are implemented. And then a new one comes along with new promise...round and round we go. He didn't hide the fact he was making it all up as he went along and yet people still bought into it. So when people begin to see through him, as is always the case, the they'll have a real choice to make. Do they go back to the tired and trusted corrupt politicians that have fucked up the world to this point, go even further right wing or say enough is enough?

Simple enough to understand.

[Power n Glory]

What are you on about? This is a simple concept. Clinton has committed crimes against humanity. Trump hasn't. He might, most American presidents do. But he hasn't yet whereas Clinton has. So don't vote for the one who has. Don't vote for anyone preferably, but definitely don't vote for the bitch who kills people. What is it with politics that makes people forget these human fundamentals?

:doh: Have a word with yourself.

[Niall_Quinn]

:doh: Have a word with yourself.

You're just creating throwaway comments now. Can't tell if that means you've grasped the rather obvious point or not.

[selassie]

Again, there's a huge difference between some guy sounding off to get elected and a woman that is directly responsible for slaughtering hundreds of thousands of human beings. There just is. And if Trump carries on where Obama/ Clinton left off then sure, he joins the ranks of the war criminals and serial killers than we've seen stream through our hallowed parliaments over the decades. But right now there's simply no comparison. Why it even has to be explained that it's a good thing people rejected that woman is tough to understand. Reasoning seems to be, well maybe Trump is Hitler, therefore let's stick with the Hilter we know. So maybe Trump won't be Hitler. At least it's possible for that to happen, whereas with Clinton it's not. She's already joined that club and it can't be un-joined.

If? He has to...at least for now he does.

Trump is a lunatic, he's not even one of them, he's a silver spooned maniac.

[selassie]

Simple enough to understand.

Better the devil you know or don't know...yep really easy to understand. :rolleyes:

[Letters]

Probably the least of our worries but while we're here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37900400
http://www.vox.com/2016/11/9/13571318/donald-trump-disaster-climate

[selassie]

This is the thing Selass, no one cared about the policies and why should they? People kid themselves every election into thinking these things matter, when hardly any - if any - are implemented. And then a new one comes along with new promise...round and round we go. He didn't hide the fact he was making it all up as he went along and yet people still bought into it. So when people begin to see through him, as is always the case, the they'll have a real choice to make. Do they go back to the tired and trusted corrupt politicians that have fucked up the world to this point, go even further right wing or say enough is enough?

Well they just voted for change, for anything that is different to what is being delivered now.

I feel for the good and sensible people of that country, Trump will run amok being in charge of that country.

[Niall_Quinn]

If? He has to...at least for now he does.

Trump is a lunatic, he's not even one of them, he's a silver spooned maniac.

He's just been elected president so I think it's safe to assume he's one of them. When was the last time one of us got that job?

[GP]

Abortions for some, tiny American flags for others!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdfRRtAs3o

[Kano]

Well they just voted for change, for anything that is different to what is being delivered now.

I feel for the good and sensible people of that country, Trump will run amok being in charge of that country.

He can't do shit because he's a figurehead. The people behind and above him run the show. He can't cut ties with the Saudi's because they need the oil. He can't stop the arms trade because war makes too much money for America. He can't fuck with the banks because they hold and control the financial structure of the world so integral to keeping everything just about ticking over.

This wasn't a vote for Trump. It was a vote for themselves. Worn down by decades of lies and broken promises. They are desperate for anything different. Of course, in a few years they'll realise that they've been tricked again but hopefully real change comes once people fully give up on the jokers who fuck them over every half a decade. Austerity, broken families, societal breakdown and increasing poverty wasn't going to lead to dead ends, something had to give in the end. As we saw here with Brexit, Le Pen to come in France, how Austria almost experienced. Voting numbers have been declining for decades and people are close to rock bottom, not yet, but almost. It couldn't continue forever and there could be madness to follow but out of destruction comes something new. Who knows what that is right now but it can't remain like this forever.

[Power n Glory]

You're just creating throwaway comments now. Can't tell if that means you've grasped the rather obvious point or not.

I think you’ve lost the plot. You’re reaching for every straw and I can’t understand why you’d form an argument around morality. The point I’m making and you clearly keep missing is the fact that even as a successful businessman and in the tame world of real estate, Trump has made some unethical calls and abused his power. All for his own benefit and greed. So the little he’s been trusted with, he’s abused. So what more and how far will it go as President?

Most Presidents and those in power always have to make tough calls when it comes to military action. We all know that. But the people voting for Trump, those historical Republican states, have a history of being in favour of military action and want to see a tough President in charge and that’s something Clinton has had to battle against. That perception that a woman in the war room would be a pushover. You’re forming the wrong argument. I totally understand where Kano is coming from and agree that after charade of Trump is over and he proves himself to be the typical politician and fucks over his voters, where will they go next?

But I can’t keep going back on forth on this one. It’s a waste of time.

[LDG]

He can't do shit because he's a figurehead. The people behind and above him run the show. He can't cut ties with the Saudi's because they need the oil. He can't stop the arms trade because war makes too much money for America. He can't fuck with the banks because they hold and control the financial structure of the world so integral to keeping everything just about ticking over.

This wasn't a vote for Trump. It was a vote for themselves. Worn down by decades of lies and broken promises. They are desperate for anything different. Of course, in a few years they'll realise that they've been tricked again but hopefully real change comes once people fully give up on the jokers who fuck them over every half a decade. Austerity, broken families, societal breakdown and increasing poverty wasn't going to lead to dead ends, something had to give in the end. As we saw here with Brexit, Le Pen to come in France, how Austria almost experienced. Voting numbers have been declining for decades and people are close to rock bottom, not yet, but almost. It couldn't continue forever and there could be madness to follow but out of destruction comes something new. Who knows what that is right now but it can't remain like this forever.

Yep.

It's the same as when my politically pushy and biased leftie economics tutor (a know-it-all twat woman of all proportions) did a dance of delight in front of the class when Blair et al won in 97.

Little did she know then, that old Tony would roger her right up the arse. I only wish I could have seen her smug face when nothing changed, and her little labour world fell apart.

[Power n Glory]

You have to worry about what's ushered in next because the campaign and policies on display were anything but progressive.

[GP]

KANYE 2020

[Niall_Quinn]

I think you’ve lost the plot. You’re reaching for every straw and I can’t understand why you’d form an argument around morality. The point I’m making and you clearly keep missing is the fact that even as a successful businessman and in the tame world of real estate, Trump has made some unethical calls and abused his power. All for his own benefit and greed. So the little he’s been trusted with, he’s abused. So what more and how far will it go as President?

Most Presidents and those in power always have to make tough calls when it comes to military action. We all know that. But the people voting for Trump, those historical Republican states, have a history of being in favour of military action and want to see a tough President in charge and that’s something Clinton has had to battle against. That perception that a woman in the war room would be a pushover. You’re forming the wrong argument. I totally understand where Kano is coming from and agree that after charade of Trump is over and he proves himself to be the typical politician and fucks over his voters, where will they go next?

But I can’t keep going back on forth on this one. It’s a waste of time.

Back on plot now thanks to you telling me the guy who just got elected is a self serving con artist. Oh wow! Really? I didn't know, thanks for telling me. But you also seem to be telling me Americans should have therefore voted for Bush/ Clinton/ Bush / Clinton. Sounds utterly crazy, I wonder why you would suggest something that crazy?

[Marc Overmars]

If you had stuck a fiver on Leicester winning the league, UK leaving the EU and Trump becoming president, you'd have won yourself £15m. :lol:

[Goonermerree]

What are you on about? This is a simple concept. Clinton has committed crimes against humanity. Trump hasn't. He might, most American presidents do. But he hasn't yet whereas Clinton has. So don't vote for the one who has. Don't vote for anyone preferably, but definitely don't vote for the bitch who kills people. What is it with politics that makes people forget these human fundamentals?

With due respect NQ, most American people don't give a FF about that either.

[Power n Glory]

Back on plot now thanks to you telling me the guy who just got elected is a self serving con artist. Oh wow! Really? I didn't know, thanks for telling me. But you also seem to be telling me Americans should have therefore voted for Bush/ Clinton/ Bush / Clinton. Sounds utterly crazy, I wonder why you would suggest something that crazy?

I’m calling bullshit on this idea that American’s have somehow awoken, rejected the establishment, have voted for change, or couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a ‘career criminal’, as you put it. The battle lines drawn for the campaign should be enough evidence. They’ll fall for the same shit again just as long as the clothes are different.

[Power n Glory]

With due respect NQ, most American people don't give a FF about that either.


Exactly my point! Most of the red states won't a strong President that's not afraid to take military action. It's not as if Trump has been running around saying he wants peace and committed to disarming nukes.

[Goonermerree]

People need their heads testing if they think Mr 'Grab em by the Pussy' Trump is going to lead them anywhere. He's a product of the establishment and doesn't give a shit about ordinary people. He's just gamed the system. What makes him different from a politician is that he's brazen and brash enough to say who he's fucking over. That doesn't make him a better choice. Well done, America! They're going to feel this one.

Watch out Merkel!!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

With due respect NQ, most American people don't give a FF about that either.

But I do. I'm only interested in this from my perspective. I'm very glad that for whatever reasons a vicious career criminal and war criminal failed to win the presidency and usher in another bunch of neoliberal, globalist scumbags.

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m calling bullshit on this idea that American’s have somehow awoken, rejected the establishment, have voted for change, or couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a ‘career criminal’, as you put it. The battle lines drawn for the campaign should be enough evidence. They’ll fall for the same shit again just as long as the clothes are different.

Sounds like you resent the right of people to vote against your own preference. And there's a pretty hefty apology for Clinton in there too, perhaps you aren't up to speed on Clinton's career nor her scumbag husband's? I doesn't sound like you care much anyway. America, Europe, Africa, Asia, plenty of people are waking. Still a small minority but the shit has got so obvious that people are noticing. Some people. Yes sure, plenty of people will keep falling for the same old shit. But an increasing number aren't. There is a slim hope that somewhere down the line we can do something different to this.

[Power n Glory]

Sounds like you resent the right of people to vote against your own preference. And there's a pretty hefty apology for Clinton in there too, perhaps you aren't up to speed on Clinton's career nor her scumbag husband's? I doesn't sound like you care much anyway. America, Europe, Africa, Asia, plenty of people are waking. Still a small minority but the shit has got so obvious that people are noticing. Some people. Yes sure, plenty of people will keep falling for the same old shit. But an increasing number aren't. There is a slim hope that somewhere down the line we can do something different to this.

:doh: Knock it off, NQ. If this were a campaign based on progressive politics and not the usual spin, I'd hear your argument. Seems like you're the one getting caught up in the Hilary vs Trump thing now. :rolleyes:

[Power n Glory]

If you're going to admit that Trump has said things to con votes, how is this progressive? How have people woken up if the same lie delivered but just in a new way?

[Goonermerree]

Neither candidate was a good choice for President. Trump has lawsuits hanging over him, so he is corrupt and it doesn't matter if 'it's not the same thing' as Clinton, there's still a corrupt, criminal heading to the White House.

[GP]

Lets just hope that he's held to account by one of the numerous women and children that he's sexually assaulted.

[Goonermerree]

Lets just hope that he's held to account by one of the numerous women and children that he's sexually assaulted.

I didn't know he had sexually assaulted children.

[GP]

I didn't know he had sexually assaulted children.

Neither did I, but if we keep saying it I'm sure we can make it stick.

[Goonermerree]

Neither did I, but if we keep saying it I'm sure we can make it stick.

:haha:

[GP]

http://i.imgur.com/c60d8mo.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I’m calling bullshit on this idea that American’s have somehow awoken, rejected the establishment, have voted for change, or couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a ‘career criminal’, as you put it. The battle lines drawn for the campaign should be enough evidence. They’ll fall for the same shit again just as long as the clothes are different.

I think they have rejected the establishment, the election was won in the mid west Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania all went for Trump these states have gone for the Democrats in almost every election since 1988.

They are all identikits, states with large metropolitan areas and sparser small town areas and the small towns are sick of an elite both politically and in the media that has belittled them and the pace of change caused by globalisation that left them behind.

They didn't vote for Trump because they are racist, they voted for him because him making racist remarks isn't important to them when governments republican and democrat have shipped manafacturing jobs overseas and the only jobs they can get are in cities where they can't afford to live.

Small businesses replaced by Starbucks, McDonalds and Walmart.

Trump is a manipulative con man who doesn't give a shit about them, but they think The Clintons of this world just ignore and look down on them.

They probably know they run the risk of being duped, but the risk seemed worth it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Neither did I, but if we keep saying it I'm sure we can make it stick.

He is awaiting a trial date for a case being brought against him for sexual assault of a minor

Now most likely it will be settled out of court, and if not he can be called President Nonce

[Goonermerree]

He is awaiting a trial date for a case being brought against him for sexual assault of a minor

Now most likely it will be settled out of court, and if not he can be called President Nonce

A criminal act (if he is found guilty) should not be settled out of court, he should go to prison. Now where have I heard something similar said to that in this election?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

She's taken out a lawsuit so it's a civil case technically, plus as its historic case and he will have expensive legal defence probably won't get anywhere in the criminal courts.

[Power n Glory]

I think they have rejected the establishment, the election was won in the mid west Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania all went for Trump these states have gone for the Democrats in almost every election since 1988.

They are all identikits, states with large metropolitan areas and sparser small town areas and the small towns are sick of an elite both politically and in the media that has belittled them and the pace of change caused by globalisation that left them behind.

They didn't vote for Trump because they are racist, they voted for him because him making racist remarks isn't important to them when governments republican and democrat have shipped manafacturing jobs overseas and the only jobs they can get are in cities where they can't afford to live.

Small businesses replaced by Starbucks, McDonalds and Walmart.

Trump is a manipulative con man who doesn't give a shit about them, but they think The Clintons of this world just ignore and look down on them.

They probably know they run the risk of being duped, but the risk seemed worth it.

I didn't say I thought they were racists. That's a different argument.

That last part is why I say this isn't a change. Swap a few name tags, swap red for green and blue and for yellow,but deliver the same lie and people will probably fall for it.

[WMUG]

https://twitter.com/SimpsonsQOTD/status/746303757344968708

[Power n Glory]

https://twitter.com/SimpsonsQOTD/status/746303757344968708

:lol: That's the episode was I thinking of this morning and after Boris and Gove disappeared after the Brexit vote.

It will be interesting to see how all this unravels.

[selassie]

KANYE 2020

:lol:

[selassie]

https://twitter.com/SimpsonsQOTD/status/746303757344968708

Just seen this. :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I didn't say I thought they were racists. That's a different argument.

That last part is why I say this isn't a change. Swap a few name tags, swap red for green and blue and for yellow,but deliver the same lie and people will probably fall for it.

I didn't say you did call them racist, but a lot of people are incredulous as to why someone can come out with the invective Trump has come out with and that people will still vote for that person, and the bottom line is they don't care.

Oh no i don't think this is a change at all, anymore than Brexit is a change against the march of Globalisation.......but it's abundantly clear that's why people voted the way they did.

And as i've stated that these people aren't necessarily stupid either, they know there is a good chance things won't change but I think they have probably decided it can't get any worse so it's worth the risk

[Power n Glory]

I didn't say you did call them racist, but a lot of people are incredulous as to why someone can come out with the invective Trump has come out with and that people will still vote for that person, and the bottom line is they don't care.

Oh no i don't think this is a change at all, anymore than Brexit is a change against the march of Globalisation.......but it's abundantly clear that's why people voted the way they did.

And as i've stated that these people aren't necessarily stupid either, they know there is a good chance things won't change but I think they have probably decided it can't get any worse so it's worth the risk

Hence my whole stance.

You may not be so harsh on the assessment but anyone that voted in Trump needs their head testing. It's a stupid decision. I suspect some people chose not to vote because they're unimpressed by both candidates and had enough of the system on a whole.

[Goonermerree]

I thought they had a record turn out. They did in rural areas which are definitely likely to vote for Trump. And some of Trump voters would have been racist, I watched a programme where a white supremacist was interviewed and he and his cronies were definately for Trump

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hence my whole stance.

You may not be so harsh on the assessment but anyone that voted in Trump needs their head testing. It's a stupid decision. I suspect some people chose not to vote because they're unimpressed by both candidates and had enough of the system on a whole.

My issue is that the longer we hold onto the impression that they need their heads examining, the further this spread of the populist right will be.

Trump did promise to stand up against free trade in favour of creating domestic jobs, now I don't think he has any intention of keeping that promise and the GOP congress wouldn't allow him to even if he did. It doesn't matter what Trump is or what he appears to represent, when people are desperate they will offer the hand held out....even if it's the orange hand of a confidence trickster.

[Power n Glory]

Well, Letters said something here when we had the Brexit vote and the same applies here. Not all Trump voters are racists but all racists would have voted for Trump. All that hot air doesn't bother me to be honest.

But yeah, if we had record voters all going out to support Trump, despite the crazy rhetoric...people lack common sense and will fall for anything.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I thought they had a record turn out. They did in rural areas which are definitely likely to vote for Trump. And some of Trump voters would have been racist, I watched a programme where a white supremacist was interviewed and he and his cronies were definately for Trump

Well yes of course if you run a campaign on racist rhetoric you are going to appeal to actual racists, but i don't think that was the actual reason the majority of people voted for Trump.

[Goonermerree]

Well yes of course if you run a campaign on racist rhetoric you are going to appeal to actual racists, but i don't think that was the actual reason the majority of people voted for Trump.

Of course! I'm not saying all Trump voters were racist, just that he appealed to them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well, Letters said something here when we had the Brexit vote and the same applies here. Not all Trump voters are racists but all racists would have voted for Trump. All that hot air doesn't bother me to be honest.

But yeah, if we had record voters all going out to support Trump, despite the crazy rhetoric...people lack common sense and will fall for anything.

And this is one of the instances where i agree with NQ, although i think he adds too many irrelevancies that are more reflective of his own political opinions than what is actually going on. We are in danger of looking at this as a localised phenomenon and not a global trend.

There isn't a great deal of difference between these small town midwestern state voters and those from semi-rural post industrial areas in Northern England.

[Niall_Quinn]

:doh: Knock it off, NQ. If this were a campaign based on progressive politics and not the usual spin, I'd hear your argument. Seems like you're the one getting caught up in the Hilary vs Trump thing now. :rolleyes:

I didn't say anything about progressive politics or candidates. Progressive as used by the political classes is a euphemism. There hasn't been a progressive candidate who made it to the grand finale in decades. This time around Clinton played the part of the progressive liberal, so that's how ridiculous that term really is.

I absolutely am caught up in the election, why else would I have stayed up through the night to watch it? This was a very important election that saw the defeat of a very serious and dangerous criminal and her criminal gang and threw a wrench in the spokes of the warmongering neoliberal loonies. Which is what I have said all along, despite the different angles you have taken to try and ignore Clinton's past by blowing Trump's relative misdemeanours into some sort of global threat.

I think, as with Brexit, those people who are comfortable with the status quo get frightened when there's a ripple in what they see as normality, no matter how fucked up that normality is in reality. Therefore you get people bouncing around, panicking about a guy they know absolutely nothing about and proposing the familiar, comfortable war criminal, mass murderer, fraudster crook alternative would have been the safest bet.

I'm not "admitting" anything about Trump. I'm not and never have defended him. I'm simply questioning the defence of a vile creature like Clinton and expressing satisfaction she couldn't continue the Bush/ Clinton crime wave. And there's a huge difference between people who have woken up and see the system for what it is (who I doubt voted because that would just be silly) and those who are sick to the back teeth of it but still believe it is real. Last night we saw an awful lot of people try what they imagine will be a different option (just as the degenerate Obama was supposed to be) and my belief is if you can even get to the point where you desire an alternative to the status quo (real or imagined) then that's preferable to yearning for the typical establishment shit. Yes these people are going to get conned but some good could come of that when some of them at least figure they got conned. But what can you do with the sheep who think nothing needs to change? There's no hope for that lot.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Of course! I'm not saying all Trump voters were racist, just that he appealed to them.

Again you're missing my point, Racism is totally irrelevant here, that he appealed to racists was a by-product. If you blow a dog whistle, your dog might come running over and so might another dog.

If he was smarter and more sophisticated he could have done it without the crass racism, but he isn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course! I'm not saying all Trump voters were racist, just that he appealed to them.

That's the mainstream narrative from both Brexit and this election. The educated, informed, literate, caring and attractive people vote to Remain and for Mrs Clinton. The unwashed, thicko, racist, sexist, mysogynist, illiterate, cousin marrying clansmen vote for Little Britain or Hitler Trump.

Everybody knows that. In fact some of the more informed, literate, caring and attractive posters here have already framed events using the same language and in this thread (and the Brexit thread).

This is how the mainstream media trains people to think and speak and so many people are obliging.

[Power n Glory]

Again you're missing my point, Racism is totally irrelevant here, that he appealed to racists was a by-product. If you blow a dog whistle, your dog might come running over and so might another dog.

If he was smarter and more sophisticated he could have done it without the crass racism, but he isn't.

But you're the one that brought up racism. :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

But you're the one that brought up racism. :unsure:

Dude! The election is over. Why are you still trying to spin and snowjob anyone who is off message?

[Goonermerree]

I voted for Brexit, but Trump totally lost me when he said all of that crap about women on tape. I didn't like either candidate. And the racist crap that he spouted.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's the mainstream narrative from both Brexit and this election. The educated, informed, literate, caring and attractive people vote to Remain and for Mrs Clinton. The unwashed, thicko, racist, sexist, mysogynist, illiterate, cousin marrying clansmen vote for Little Britain or Hitler Trump.

Everybody knows that. In fact some of the more informed, literate, caring and attractive posters here have already framed events using the same language and in this thread (and the Brexit thread).

This is how the mainstream media trains people to think and speak and so many people are obliging.

Actually i think both sides are just as bad, on one hand there is a tendency to patronise, belittle or act contemptuously of these people. On the other hand there is an attempt to manipulate genuine disaffection and anger by offering simplistic solutions.

But ultimately you are going to be more inclined to listen to the person who isn't dismissive of you.

[Niall_Quinn]

Actually i think both sides are just as bad, on one hand there is a tendency to patronise, belittle or act contemptuously of these people. On the other hand there is an attempt to manipulate genuine disaffection and anger by offering simplistic solutions.

But ultimately you are going to be more inclined to listen to the person who isn't dismissive of you.

Shut it, I'm not listening.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But you're the one that brought up racism. :unsure:

I brought it up to say that people are mistakenly attributing it to Racism (and i clarified that didn't mean you) but at the same time there won't be the moral outrage if someone says we are going to do x and y to z, they are just going to think if it works, it works.....they just want their lives to be better.

If you have stomach pains and go to see two different doctors, one tells you painful exploratory surgery will be needed and there is no guarantee of finding the answer at the end of it, and the other just gives you a bottle of pills and says you will be fine in a week if you just one before you go to bed at night.....despite your misgivings who would you prefer to be right?.

[Power n Glory]

I didn't say anything about progressive politics or candidates. Progressive as used by the political classes is a euphemism. There hasn't been a progressive candidate who made it to the grand finale in decades. This time around Clinton played the part of the progressive liberal, so that's how ridiculous that term really is.

I absolutely am caught up in the election, why else would I have stayed up through the night to watch it? This was a very important election that saw the defeat of a very serious and dangerous criminal and her criminal gang and threw a wrench in the spokes of the warmongering neoliberal loonies. Which is what I have said all along, despite the different angles you have taken to try and ignore Clinton's past by blowing Trump's relative misdemeanours into some sort of global threat.

I think, as with Brexit, those people who are comfortable with the status quo get frightened when there's a ripple in what they see as normality, no matter how fucked up that normality is in reality. Therefore you get people bouncing around, panicking about a guy they know absolutely nothing about and proposing the familiar, comfortable war criminal, mass murderer, fraudster crook alternative would have been the safest bet.

I'm not "admitting" anything about Trump. I'm not and never have defended him. I'm simply questioning the defence of a vile creature like Clinton and expressing satisfaction she couldn't continue the Bush/ Clinton crime wave. And there's a huge difference between people who have woken up and see the system for what it is (who I doubt voted because that would just be silly) and those who are sick to the back teeth of it but still believe it is real. Last night we saw an awful lot of people try what they imagine will be a different option (just as the degenerate Obama was supposed to be) and my belief is if you can even get to the point where you desire an alternative to the status quo (real or imagined) then that's preferable to yearning for the typical establishment shit. Yes these people are going to get conned but some good could come of that when some of them at least figure they got conned. But what can you do with the sheep who think nothing needs to change? There's no hope for that lot.

I think most people fear that if career politicians can be corrupted, how far can someone like Trump, whose already corrupt, can take this thing.

I think you're way to caught up in this because you're already assuming my criticism of Trump is a defence of Hilary. You did it in a previous post....


This is a Trump vs Clinton thing for you. Fine. But it's not like that for me. Just the same as the clowns staging Remain vs Brexit were irrelevant. So I think it's safe enough to count me out of the delusional camp. The only important thing that happened in this election was a bang to rights criminal who traded her office and state secrets was placed in front of the people who were then asked to endorse her. If she had won then there would be no hope whatsoever.

I call bullshit on the above. People didn't search their souls and find it too disturbing to vote for Hilary but ok to vote for Trump. I'd be surprised if someone that usually votes democratic swung to the opposite end to vote for Trump based on those grounds.

[Power n Glory]

Dude! The election is over. Why are you still trying to spin and snowjob anyone who is off message?

Freedom of speech. You don't have to engage with this at all. Leave. Don't be a hypocrite.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think most people fear that if career politicians can be corrupted, how far can someone like Trump, whose already corrupt, can take this thing.

I think you're way to caught up in this because you're already assuming my criticism of Trump is a defence of Hilary. You did it in a previous post....



I call bullshit on the above. People didn't search their souls and find it too disturbing to vote for Hilary but ok to vote for Trump. I'd be surprised if someone that usually votes democratic swung to the opposite end to vote for Trump based on those grounds.

Again, none of what you are saying makes any sense. You are worried about what Trump MIGHT do but seem unconcerned at what Clinton actually has done. There's at least a possibility Trump won't do any of the things you fear whereas there is zero chance with Clinton as she's already done most of them. And thank fuck she's been stopped because the next step seemed to be certain conflict with Russia. I mean did you listen to these crazy fucks during the election? Pure McCarthyism, embarrassing stuff.

I've been caught up in the US election cycle since 1990 and flipping the narrative in the way you are doing is not subtle. In an either/ or situation if Trump doesn't win then the other one wins. So if you are anyone bar Trump, and it sure sounds that way, then by default you are pro-Clinton, at least to the extent you would be okay seeing her take the presidency and welcome her gang into the Whitehouse. I already said yesterday, all yes, I want Trump to win. But you are coy. You want Trump to lose and what? Nobody to win? That wasn't on the menu.

Call bullshit all you want. The Bush/ Clinton era is surely over now (although never say never). I never once said people searched their souls, I said I (personally) find it encouraging that the majority of Americans didn't endorse this super criminal. I said if that had happened there would be little hope for any sort of change, ever. If you run such a fatally flawed and overtly criminal candidate like that and enough people say yes, fine then you are in deep, deep shit. That was averted last night and that's definitely a good thing. Doesn't mean anything has been solved, it just means plenty of very serious shit stands a far better chance of being averted.

[Niall_Quinn]

Freedom of speech. You don't have to engage with this at all. Leave. Don't be a hypocrite.

Again, nonsensical. I asked you a question, I didn't suggest you not speak. The hypocrite part is a crude attempt at reflection I guess?

[Niall_Quinn]

Corbyn next HCZ. What do you say to that?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Corbyn next HCZ. What do you say to that?

I wasn't aware Jezza was a member of the Populist Right?

That method of thinking seems to indicate that Sanders would have won if he'd run against Trump. A fallacy, he wouldn't.....these voters would have just seen him as another out of touch liberal and it doesn't matter how long he'd spent as a senator railing against wall street and the plutocrats (for what it's worth i actually like Bernie).


Although i will do something uncharacteristic and say something nice about Corbyn, i think he would be a much better British Prime Minister than Trump will be an American president (that's more reflective of my low opinion of the Donald of course but everything is always relative to something else).

[Power n Glory]

I brought it up to say that people are mistakenly attributing it to Racism (and i clarified that didn't mean you) but at the same time there won't be the moral outrage if someone says we are going to do x and y to z, they are just going to think if it works, it works.....they just want their lives to be better.

If you have stomach pains and go to see two different doctors, one tells you painful exploratory surgery will be needed and there is no guarantee of finding the answer at the end of it, and the other just gives you a bottle of pills and says you will be fine in a week if you just one before you go to bed at night.....despite your misgivings who would you prefer to be right?.
I don't think anyone did here, so it's not worth discussing.

I think those that voted for Trump have their reasons but I think they need their heads testing. Sue me for the lack of 'political correctness'. If this is a rejection of the establishment, this is the wrong guy to endorse. It's like the people that regularly read and agree with The Sun newspaper backing Rupert Murdoch in an election if that were possible. He'll say what's needed but won't champion regular people.

[Power n Glory]

Again, nonsensical. I asked you a question, I didn't suggest you not speak. The hypocrite part is a crude attempt at reflection I guess?

It's a bullshit question. This is a discussion and you're asking why am still talking? :lol: That's rich even for you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think anyone did here, so it's not worth discussing.

I think those that voted for Trump have their reasons but I think they need their heads testing. Sue me for the lack of 'political correctness'. If this is a rejection of the establishment, this is the wrong guy to endorse. It's like the people that regularly read and agree with The Sun newspaper backing Rupert Murdoch in an election if that were possible. He'll say what's needed but won't champion regular people.

I think it's very much worth mentioning because like i say it's just one example of how the reaction to this has been characterised.

Of course it's the wrong guy to endorse, but there was no genuine agent of change so people went for what they thought was the nearest thing. I don't agree with it, but the longer the problem is ignored the longer people will turn to people posing as anti-establishment.

[Power n Glory]

I think it's very much worth mentioning because like i say it's just one example of how the reaction to this has been characterised.

Of course it's the wrong guy to endorse, but there was no genuine agent of change so people went for what they thought was the nearest thing. I don't agree with it, but the longer the problem is ignored the longer people will turn to people posing as anti-establishment.

Was Trump even posing as anti establishment? How could he? It's Donald Trump! :lol: He's the poster child for corporate America and made a TV show out of it. He was definitely the wrong choice but it really was a shitty choice to begin with.

[Goonermerree]

Closer to home, how sad that 5 people have died in that tram.

[GP]

http://i.giphy.com/13W4m6ZevaC5P2.gif

[Niall_Quinn]

I wasn't aware Jezza was a member of the Populist Right?

That method of thinking seems to indicate that Sanders would have won if he'd run against Trump. A fallacy, he wouldn't.....these voters would have just seen him as another out of touch liberal and it doesn't matter how long he'd spent as a senator railing against wall street and the plutocrats (for what it's worth i actually like Bernie).


Although i will do something uncharacteristic and say something nice about Corbyn, i think he would be a much better British Prime Minister than Trump will be an American president (that's more reflective of my low opinion of the Donald of course but everything is always relative to something else).

Teasing.

But the media will surely be a bit more careful before they use that "unelectable" tag again?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Was Trump even posing as anti establishment? How could he? It's Donald Trump! :lol: He's the poster child for corporate America and made a TV show out of it. He was definitely the wrong choice but it really was a shitty choice to begin with.

he was definitely posing as anti-establishment, against the political elite and media establishment. That they turned to this gaudy realtor who has spent his whole life building monstrosities is exactly part of the 1% that they felt aggrieved about should be absurd, but what isn't absurd about human beings.....one of the biggest globalist super powers on the planet is supposedly a communist state.

What they saw was what they wanted to see, a self-made man (ha) and successful businessman (ha) who wants to turn his personal success story into the American success story. They probably saw him as another Ross Perot.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think anyone did here, so it's not worth discussing.

I think those that voted for Trump have their reasons but I think they need their heads testing. Sue me for the lack of 'political correctness'. If this is a rejection of the establishment, this is the wrong guy to endorse. It's like the people that regularly read and agree with The Sun newspaper backing Rupert Murdoch in an election if that were possible. He'll say what's needed but won't champion regular people.

And which candidate was going to champion regular people? Clinton? Bush? Obama? The other Clinton? The other Bush? Why are you so concerned with Trump sharking his way into the Whitehouse? Look at what went before him.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Teasing.

But the media will surely be a bit more careful before they use that "unelectable" tag again?

Someone made the following point to me earlier

When have Conservatives/The Right ever gone into an election expecting to win and then ended up losing?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's a bullshit question. This is a discussion and you're asking why am still talking? :lol: That's rich even for you.

No, I asked you while you were still shovelling snow.

[Niall_Quinn]

Someone made the following point to me earlier

When have Conservatives/The Right ever gone into an election expecting to win and then ended up losing?

Romney. They were quite convinced. Nobody else was and that turned out to be a problem.

[Kano]

I thought they had a record turn out. They did in rural areas which are definitely likely to vote for Trump. And some of Trump voters would have been racist, I watched a programme where a white supremacist was interviewed and he and his cronies were definately for Trump

Of course there will be racist groups attracted to Trump because that's the card he's played. He knows his strengths and where to pitch himself. A good salesman always knows where to set-up and who to pitch to. America is due to become a majority non-white country in only 16 years time, so there is a lot of fear and paranoia around that. But those who voted for this can't all be tarnished with racism. There are a lot of ignorant people but there's a big difference between being actively racist and ignorant. But Trump, as a career salesman, has exploited those fears to get where he is now. As a salesman you find the customers pain point, scare them with it and offer the solution. That's what he's done. But salesman are good liars.

There is mass misunderstanding about the impact of immigration and natural demographic change, so people fear it. For centuries society has placed others above them due to laziness and manipulation of their understanding and of course wealth. This is what Trump is there for. They can no longer believe in the other guys, so this chancer rocks up, zero experience but wrapped in success and money saying the things they want to hear. The American Dream before their eyes. A throwback to the 80's like UKIP offered. Almost a continuation of how fashion, music, film etc has cherry picked the best parts of the decade too because they are misty-eyed cultural reminders of a 'better time'. They will realise he's another wolf in sheeps clothing and then it will come down to us all to decide do we keep believing a slip of paper in a ballot box is enough or is it time to extinguish that way of order.

The current fear is, if you are non-white and/or Christian in the US right now, you are right to be worried if you live in certain areas because of the gun culture. We know already that just going to school or about your every day business can get you wiped out by some maniac. What Trump's rhetoric has enabled are the crazy nutjobs just waiting for an excuse to legitimise their insanity. Post Brexit that was a concern here but rather than black or Asian communities being targeted, we've seen polish, other Europeans and Muslim women picked on. Those deemed to be the weaker targets, that aren't perceived as be able to fight back. It's been established that the black and Asian communities can and will retaliate, so the cowards that instigate the violence head for the weak as usual. The problem with America is that you can attack anyone at anytime because a bullet doesn't discriminate and foolishly there is strength and safety found behind pulling the trigger.

[Power n Glory]

Again, none of what you are saying makes any sense. You are worried about what Trump MIGHT do but seem unconcerned at what Clinton actually has done. There's at least a possibility Trump won't do any of the things you fear whereas there is zero chance with Clinton as she's already done most of them. And thank fuck she's been stopped because the next step seemed to be certain conflict with Russia. I mean did you listen to these crazy fucks during the election? Pure McCarthyism, embarrassing stuff.

I've been caught up in the US election cycle since 1990 and flipping the narrative in the way you are doing is not subtle. In an either/ or situation if Trump doesn't win then the other one wins. So if you are anyone bar Trump, and it sure sounds that way, then by default you are pro-Clinton, at least to the extent you would be okay seeing her take the presidency and welcome her gang into the Whitehouse. I already said yesterday, all yes, I want Trump to win. But you are coy. You want Trump to lose and what? Nobody to win? That wasn't on the menu.

Call bullshit all you want. The Bush/ Clinton era is surely over now (although never say never). I never once said people searched their souls, I said I (personally) find it encouraging that the majority of Americans didn't endorse this super criminal. I said if that had happened there would be little hope for any sort of change, ever. If you run such a fatally flawed and overtly criminal candidate like that and enough people say yes, fine then you are in deep, deep shit. That was averted last night and that's definitely a good thing. Doesn't mean anything has been solved, it just means plenty of very serious shit stands a far better chance of being averted.

We'll come back to this when Trump is actually doing the job. I wasn't happy that Hilary won over Bernie and thought America had two crappy candidates.

The point I'm challenging you on, is how is this really anything different if you yourself have said Trump has conned the people? I don't think people have woken up to anything just yet and that's the point I keep coming back to. What Hilary has done in the past was a worry. She's a political animal. I'm sure when younger there was a time where she, like most politicians, wanted to serve the people, but the system doesn't allow that. You know that yourself. Most people know that. So it makes even less sense to me to throw Donald Trump into the ring in hope that serious shit will be averted. How Sway? :lol: #Kanye2020.

We'll sit back and watch this circus continue.

[Power n Glory]

he was definitely posing as anti-establishment, against the political elite and media establishment. That they turned to this gaudy realtor who has spent his whole life building monstrosities is exactly part of the 1% that they felt aggrieved about should be absurd, but what isn't absurd about human beings.....one of the biggest globalist super powers on the planet is supposedly a communist state.

What they saw was what they wanted to see, a self-made man (ha) and successful businessman (ha) who wants to turn his personal success story into the American success story. They probably saw him as another Ross Perot.

I have no idea how people fell for that line. The promise of creating jobs and fixing the economy.... OK, I can see how people fell for that one since he's a business man. But Anti Establishment? Yeah, right. They'll learn.

[Power n Glory]

No, I asked you while you were still shovelling snow.

This a trick question? :unsure:

[Power n Glory]

Of course there will be racist groups attracted to Trump because that's the card he's played. He knows his strengths and where to pitch himself. A good salesman always knows where to set-up and who to pitch to. America is due to become a majority non-white country in only 16 years time, so there is a lot of fear and paranoia around that. But those who voted for this can't all be tarnished with racism. There are a lot of ignorant people but there's a big difference between being actively racist and ignorant. But Trump, as a career salesman, has exploited those fears to get where he is now. As a salesman you find the customers pain point, scare them with it and offer the solution. That's what he's done. But salesman are good liars.

There is mass misunderstanding about the impact of immigration and natural demographic change, so people fear it. For centuries society has placed others above them due to laziness and manipulation of their understanding and of course wealth. This is what Trump is there for. They can no longer believe in the other guys, so this chancer rocks up, zero experience but wrapped in success and money saying the things they want to hear. The American Dream before their eyes. A throwback to the 80's like UKIP offered. Almost a continuation of how fashion, music, film etc has cherry picked the best parts of the decade too because they are misty-eyed cultural reminders of a 'better time'. They will realise he's another wolf in sheeps clothing and then it will come down to us all to decide do we keep believing a slip of paper in a ballot box is enough or is it time to extinguish that way of order.

The current fear is, if you are non-white and/or Christian in the US right now, you are right to be worried if you live in certain areas because of the gun culture. We know already that just going to school or about your every day business can get you wiped out by some maniac. What Trump's rhetoric has enabled are the crazy nutjobs just waiting for an excuse to legitimise their insanity. Post Brexit that was a concern here but rather than black or Asian communities being targeted, we've seen polish, other Europeans and Muslim women picked on. Those deemed to be the weaker targets, that aren't perceived as be able to fight back. It's been established that the black and Asian communities can and will retaliate, so the cowards that instigate the violence head for the weak as usual. The problem with America is that you can attack anyone at anytime because a bullet doesn't discriminate and foolishly there is strength and safety found behind pulling the trigger.

That's a good post.

[Niall_Quinn]

We'll come back to this when Trump is actually doing the job. I wasn't happy that Hilary won over Bernie and thought America had two crappy candidates.

The point I'm challenging you on, is how is this really anything different if you yourself have said Trump has conned the people? I don't think people have woken up to anything just yet and that's the point I keep coming back to. What Hilary has done in the past was a worry. She's a political animal. I'm sure when younger there was a time where she, like most politicians, wanted to serve the people, but the system doesn't allow that. You know that yourself. Most people know that. So it makes even less sense to me to throw Donald Trump into the ring in hope that serious shit will be averted. How Sway? :lol: #Kanye2020.

We'll sit back and watch this circus continue.

There was never a time when Clinton wanted to serve the people. Even back in her days as a despicable lawyer she was a disgraceful, self-serving hack. Make no mistake about it, this is the most corrupt individual ever to run for office. She's more corrupt than her husband because she's smart and he's thick as a plank.

As for Sanders, if he'd had guts he'd have accepted the "political animal" (crook) Clinton robbed him this time and resolved to try again next time. Instead he put the rotten agenda of the Democratic Party above the principles he had originally decided to stand and on which he attracted what I accept was a remarkable level of support. He sold out. He's finished now and all he ended up achieving was driving a percentage of his support into the arms of Trump. Bernie exposed himself as gutless.

I haven't claimed anything is different this morning, in fact I've said the opposite. But the possibility of Clinton, and (much more importantly) the assorted band of lunatics and warmongers she would have appointed, taking power has been averted and this is really very important. There's a line we never want to cross. Fuck Trump. What's he going to do? He has zero power. He'll be the ultimate puppet and the focus now will turn to the rich getting richer. Despicable but at least they'll use different methods, such as tax breaks and easier access to slave labour. Clinton is a connected cog in a much bigger machine. The military industrial complex linked to the appalling regimes in the Middle East linked particularly to that shit hole full of savages Saudi Arabia. These crazy neocon/ neoliberal bastards told us up front what their aims are. She was supposed to be their go to girl but happily for all of us that's not how it panned out.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I have no idea how people fell for that line. The promise of creating jobs and fixing the economy.... OK, I can see how people fell for that one since he's a business man. But Anti Establishment? Yeah, right. They'll learn.

When not a single mainstream newspaper endorsed him for president, i think it's fair to say he could position himself as anti establishment

[Power n Glory]

When not a single mainstream newspaper endorsed him for president, i think it's fair to say he could position himself as anti establishment

You misunderstood, he can position himself that way all he wants. Just like the Kardashian family can try to position themselves as pro privacy and anti media. The question is why people have bought it?

[Power n Glory]

There was never a time when Clinton wanted to serve the people. Even back in her days as a despicable lawyer she was a disgraceful, self-serving hack. Make no mistake about it, this is the most corrupt individual ever to run for office. She's more corrupt than her husband because she's smart and he's thick as a plank.

As for Sanders, if he'd had guts he'd have accepted the "political animal" (crook) Clinton robbed him this time and resolved to try again next time. Instead he put the rotten agenda of the Democratic Party above the principles he had originally decided to stand and on which he attracted what I accept was a remarkable level of support. He sold out. He's finished now and all he ended up achieving was driving a percentage of his support into the arms of Trump. Bernie exposed himself as gutless.

I haven't claimed anything is different this morning, in fact I've said the opposite. But the possibility of Clinton, and (much more importantly) the assorted band of lunatics and warmongers she would have appointed, taking power has been averted and this is really very important. There's a line we never want to cross. Fuck Trump. What's he going to do? He has zero power. He'll be the ultimate puppet and the focus now will turn to the rich getting richer. Despicable but at least they'll use different methods, such as tax breaks and easier access to slave labour. Clinton is a connected cog in a much bigger machine. The military industrial complex linked to the appalling regimes in the Middle East linked particularly to that shit hole full of savages Saudi Arabia. These crazy neocon/ neoliberal bastards told us up front what their aims are. She was supposed to be their go to girl but happily for all of us that's not how it panned out.

The war machine won't stop if Trump is the ultimate puppet. How can it? They still have wars raging now and wouldn't be surprised if he sparks new tension.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Of course there will be racist groups attracted to Trump because that's the card he's played. He knows his strengths and where to pitch himself. A good salesman always knows where to set-up and who to pitch to. America is due to become a majority non-white country in only 16 years time, so there is a lot of fear and paranoia around that. But those who voted for this can't all be tarnished with racism. There are a lot of ignorant people but there's a big difference between being actively racist and ignorant. But Trump, as a career salesman, has exploited those fears to get where he is now. As a salesman you find the customers pain point, scare them with it and offer the solution. That's what he's done. But salesman are good liars.

There is mass misunderstanding about the impact of immigration and natural demographic change, so people fear it. For centuries society has placed others above them due to laziness and manipulation of their understanding and of course wealth. This is what Trump is there for. They can no longer believe in the other guys, so this chancer rocks up, zero experience but wrapped in success and money saying the things they want to hear. The American Dream before their eyes. A throwback to the 80's like UKIP offered. Almost a continuation of how fashion, music, film etc has cherry picked the best parts of the decade too because they are misty-eyed cultural reminders of a 'better time'. They will realise he's another wolf in sheeps clothing and then it will come down to us all to decide do we keep believing a slip of paper in a ballot box is enough or is it time to extinguish that way of order.

The current fear is, if you are non-white and/or Christian in the US right now, you are right to be worried if you live in certain areas because of the gun culture. We know already that just going to school or about your every day business can get you wiped out by some maniac. What Trump's rhetoric has enabled are the crazy nutjobs just waiting for an excuse to legitimise their insanity. Post Brexit that was a concern here but rather than black or Asian communities being targeted, we've seen polish, other Europeans and Muslim women picked on. Those deemed to be the weaker targets, that aren't perceived as be able to fight back. It's been established that the black and Asian communities can and will retaliate, so the cowards that instigate the violence head for the weak as usual. The problem with America is that you can attack anyone at anytime because a bullet doesn't discriminate and foolishly there is strength and safety found behind pulling the trigger.

Pretty much this.

Trump has made numerous racists statements in a shameless brazen attempt to appeal to that group ..... that's irrefutable. It's reflected in the likes of the KKK, David Duke and other white nationalists stumping for him on the campaign trail and literally celebrating yesterdays result.

Are all Trump (and Brexit) voters racists ..... of course not and literally no one is saying that apart from a few dumbass limousine liberals whose opinions matter zilch, so perpetuating that strawman on here is pretty pointless. However the point is if you are a racist, you voted for Trump (or Brexit over here) due to the shameful pandering to that segment of society by both Trump and the Leave campaign, both of them were prepared to sink to any low in order to win a few votes.

Honestly, it must be sickening to be a Muslim American today after all the shit's Trump's said about them especially about banning them from entering their own country.

[Niall_Quinn]

The war machine won't stop if Trump is the ultimate puppet. How can it? They still have wars raging now and wouldn't be surprised if he sparks new tension.

That's all quite possible. But it was inevitable under a Clinton regime. A certainty. We don't yet know which gang Trump is bringing to power as he's managed to shield their identities by using his own money. It's possible they will want to run things differently, certainly not in the interests of common people, but differently. We have to wait and see but at least now there's a chance the wars in the Mid East will not be expanded and that tensions with Russia can be cooled. Trump has already placated the arms manufacturers and other assorted warmongers by promising them lots of new orders for lots of new toys. It could be they are satisfied with that, for a while at least. The criminal corporations that have stashed their cash overseas have been offered the sort of tax rates they have been demanding for ages and they also get to bring back the proceeds of their slave economies overseas for an extremely reasonable 10% cut for the government mobsters. They'll probably do that deal. So if the financial interests of power coincide with the interests of the rest of us we might actually see "Trump" deliver peace and prosperity. It's possible. Impossible with Clinton though.

[Niall_Quinn]

You misunderstood, he can position himself that way all he wants. Just like the Kardashian family can try to position themselves as pro privacy and anti media. The question is why people have bought it?

Why did they buy into Obama? He's an even bigger charlatan than Trump. He's part of the reason so many people have said fuck that whole thing, blow it up. America's very own Tony Blair. Trump has come along with a different pitch, it's still for a product called "Change" but the features and benefits are different. So I guess people want to try the new brand, see if that works. Are you saying the vast majority of people in any country in the west don't do exactly the same thing every 4 or 5 years? Why do you find it odd that people who have been indoctrinated from birth to believe in government turn around and play the government game? They don't know anything else. They can't conceive of anything else. So Clinton pitches up with tired old Brand X that everyone knows is snake oil and Trump rolls in with New and Improved Brand Y. You yourself have laughed at the notion of people saying no to both and choosing another way. So that leaves 2 choices. Is it really surprising Trump got the sale? People aren't dumb because they voted for Trump, they are dumb for voting at all. But when somebody says don't do that then everyone rolls their eyes.

[Power n Glory]

That's all quite possible. But it was inevitable under a Clinton regime. A certainty. We don't yet know which gang Trump is bringing to power as he's managed to shield their identities by using his own money. It's possible they will want to run things differently, certainly not in the interests of common people, but differently. We have to wait and see but at least now there's a chance the wars in the Mid East will not be expanded and that tensions with Russia can be cooled. Trump has already placated the arms manufacturers and other assorted warmongers by promising them lots of new orders for lots of new toys. It could be they are satisfied with that, for a while at least. The criminal corporations that have stashed their cash overseas have been offered the sort of tax rates they have been demanding for ages and they also get to bring back the proceeds of their slave economies overseas for an extremely reasonable 10% cut for the government mobsters. They'll probably do that deal. So if the financial interests of power coincide with the interests of the rest of us we might actually see "Trump" deliver peace and prosperity. It's possible. Impossible with Clinton though.

That's a bit naive. The last unqualified candidate that took office was in charge during 9/11. We all saw that movie. Trump may just walk everyone into a big pile of shit with North Korea, Iran and China. Way bigger fish and a President that can't control his mouth. He also has to fix the division he's caused in his own backyard first.

[adzzzbatch]

I hope we get to see a lot more of Tiffany if ya know what I mean ##

Ivanka ain't bad either...

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I hope we get to see a lot more of Tiffany if ya know what I mean ##

Ivanka ain't bad either...

Ivanka is pretty hot though she's taken.

Tiffany looks like a pig tbh. Not surprised given who the father is though.

Melania looks exactly like what you'd expect of a washed up former model who had too much surgery and work done on her at a young age.

Inb4 sexist police.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Say what you want about Trump, but he's a cunt.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Say what you want about Trump, but he's a cunt.

He's also fat.