"Currants Bw..."

[Goonermerree]

15 mins, over the hills and dales in my automobile.

I leave for work at 8.40 :cool:

Where do you live then?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Where do you live then?

Greendale, he's a postal worker and often takes his pet cat on the job with him.

[LDG]

Where do you live then?

I could tell you, but then you might kill me

[LDG]

Greendale, he's a postal worker and often takes his pet cat on the job with him.

Wom pom pom. Tiddly om pom.

[Niall_Quinn]

Must admit from the moment I leave my house in the morning I'm dead to the world. Headphones go on and don't come off until I reach the office. :music:

Definitely don't wear make up or own a furry jacket though. That's really queer.

Yeah, the earphones. Whites have buds, blacks have fuck-off cans, Asians seem to go either way. The earphones connected to phone connected to the eyeballs. Every last fucker. Okay, so there was one guy reading a newspaper on the train on the way down. I guess reading a newspaper shows we have our problems up here in the sticks too. What's more idiotic and dehumanising?

If you aren't into the zone out thing and you are instead watching it, it's deeply, deeply unsettling. There's something very inhuman about everyone being plugged into a machine that is feeding them an alternate reality. People can say this is progress, but I wonder. What does it actually mean to be human? But maybe the problem is not the phones, maybe the problem is the shitty tube and the way people get herded int a space invading tin can filled with sights, sounds, smells and the proximity to all three that instinctively makes us want to escape.

I think in the end, there's no valid excuse for London.

[Niall_Quinn]

Obviously Midget Trannies not a popular niche in the capital then

Wasn't him, it was a green furry jacket. I kid you not.

Obviously Letters would wear a faded red furry jacket. I would have said hello if I'd a have seen a bloke(?) dressed like that. Wasn't him.

[LDG]

Wasn't him, it was a green furry jacket. I kid you not.

Obviously Letters would wear a faded red furry jacket. I would have said hello if I'd a have seen a bloke(?) dressed like that. Wasn't him.

Letters doesn't do jackets. He's full on fleece, man.

A fleece for all occasions.

[Niall_Quinn]

So, more tales from the London Expedition.

On the train down, these two old birds hop on at Broxbourne (IIRC). You know the sort, old and well past it but still well up for it so the makeup is plastered into the cracks and the clownish lipstick hurts your eyes if you look directly at it. And they must have both pissed off the local hairdresser big time, because the hair! Jesus.

But fuck me darling, that wasn't main issue. One of them had a crisis and they were quite open about discussing it in a loud, I say is that Tiggy, style voice. Dear me, turns out all the glasses in her kitchen (pay attention here - NOT the dining room glasses, the KITCHEN glasses, there's a fucking difference) are beyond the pale in terms of taste. Some of them are from Tesco! So anyway, she's only gone and got a deal from some bloke in London at £134 a glass to replace the lot! Now how come I can't ever find deals like that? But they key point to remember here is that now she's got better glasses in the kitchen that her mate has, and her mate is renowned for having decent fucking kitchen glasses. And she's on her way down to London to pick up the glasses, plus do a bit of shopping with the friend because, sigh, she has nothing to wear. Actually she might have been telling the truth on that last point given the get-up she was wearing.

Each to their own, horsey women for courses. I think I'll have to become a novelist before venturing onto the train again. It's not for me. None of these people have any idea how to be a real snob and they are making a fucking bad show of pretending.

[Letters]

Letters doesn't do jackets. He's full on fleece, man.

A fleece for all occasions.

Tbh, even my trusty fleece isn't sufficient in the current weather. Obviously I'm still wearing it but have had to bring a coat too. :(

[Niall_Quinn]

Then there's the lift story.

I'm in this lift on the way down from floor 4. Everything is going great, 3, 2, 1... Disaster. Some other cunt has called the lift from floor 1 and now a lift moment is imminent. But it's only for 1 floor. Manageable. Doors open, wild chatter, laughter, hot potato accents and two blokes dressed to the nines with two birds who, if they weren't already pleasuring themselves by being inserted into their own anuses, I'd have bravely chatted up and probably scored with by the time G popped up on the floor display. In my mind.

I'd got dressed that day, felt it was the right thing to do seeing as I was going out and about. So I had trousers on, and a fairly decent coat from some sort of store that normal people would probably frequent. Anyway, all laughter stops dead, all conversation falters. They've realised they are in a lift with "one of them". Do you know the way you can't hold in a fart if it really wants to get out? No luck, this time there's was nothing I could do to get one out in the short amount of time I had.

Doors opened. Their ordeal was over. Gaiety restored as they skipped off to the club for lunch, where the oiks at least had the decency to wear a uniform and respond promptly to instructions. There was I thanking the heavens I wasn't them, there they were but for the grace of God. There really is nothing at all in common. Different species.

I wonder how much of my money they pissed away in 2008?

[Marc Overmars]

15 mins, over the hills and dales in my automobile.

I leave for work at 8.40 :cool:

You're living the dream bro.

I'll be a London zombie for another couple of years, at least until I'm ready to have a kid. Then I'll go local.

[Letters]

The trouble with London is that it is about an hour away from London. I don't mind commuting though, gives me a change to read.
This house move was such a stressful palaver I wouldn't want to do it again any time soon, but given the train line I'm now on a job near Liverpool Street would be nice as then I'd get one train straight there and I usually get a seat.
I wouldn't want to move away from London right now but I'm hoping London prices continue to be ridiculous and I can retire to the countryside in 20 years or so.

[Niall_Quinn]

The trouble with London is that it is about an hour away from London. I don't mind commuting though, gives me a change to read.
This house move was such a stressful palaver I wouldn't want to do it again any time soon, but given the train line I'm now on a job near Liverpool Street would be nice as then I'd get one train straight there and I usually get a seat.
I wouldn't want to move away from London right now but I'm hoping London prices continue to be ridiculous and I can retire to the countryside in 20 years or so.

I want to go to the furthest reaches of Scotland, or Shetland or somewhere like that. And the family is all for it. But they refuse to come with me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

On the train down, these two old birds hop on at Broxbourne (IIRC). .

You're at dangerous risk of narrowing down where you come from

[LDG]

The trouble with London is that it is about an hour away from London. I don't mind commuting though, gives me a change to read.
This house move was such a stressful palaver I wouldn't want to do it again any time soon, but given the train line I'm now on a job near Liverpool Street would be nice as then I'd get one train straight there and I usually get a seat.
I wouldn't want to move away from London right now but I'm hoping London prices continue to be ridiculous and I can retire to the countryside in 20 years or so.

That's the thing, where I live now, I have a direct train to London....takes....an hour (to waterloo, so I guess you have 20mins on the tube too).

Also now have the benefit of fresh country air, and tractors and shit.

[LDG]

You're at dangerous risk of narrowing down where you come from

He's got to be from Kent, surely.

And he wears sandals.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So, more tales from the London Expedition.

I think I'll have to become a novelist before venturing onto the train again.

I think you should become one anyway

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's got to be from Kent, surely.

And he wears sandals.

Herts, Cambridgeshire or North West Essex would be my bet...more likely the first one

[Niall_Quinn]

You're at dangerous risk of narrowing down where you come from

Where I come from, or where I live? That's a long line, many stops. Fuck me, many, many stops. Is it my imagination or has rail travel gone all Indian in this country?

[Niall_Quinn]

He's got to be from Kent, surely.

And he wears sandals.

Kent? You cheeky bastard. Kent!

I can read and write and everything.

[Niall_Quinn]

Herts, Cambridgeshire or North West Essex would be my bet...more likely the first one

Wrong!

DOH!

[LDG]

Where I come from, or where I live? That's a long line, many stops. Fuck me, many, many stops. Is it my imagination or has rail travel gone all Indian in this country?

http://images.grabhouse.com/urbancocktail/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Height-Source-pinterest.com_.jpg



Jeremy Corbyn has a seat inside there somewhere.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway, Letters can just look up the IP. And he does.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's the thing, where I live now, I have a direct train to London....takes....an hour (to waterloo, so I guess you have 20mins on the tube too).

Also now have the benefit of fresh country air, and tractors and shit.

The shit takes a bit of getting used to.

[Goonermerree]

http://images.grabhouse.com/urbancocktail/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Height-Source-pinterest.com_.jpg



Jeremy Corbyn has a seat inside there somewhere.
Nah, he's on the outside somewhere clinging on for dear life.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Where I come from, or where I live? That's a long line, many stops. Fuck me, many, many stops. Is it my imagination or has rail travel gone all Indian in this country?

No...it's always been like that

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm actually working today. Doing a donkey job in between posting here. Transferring domains. 10 down 10 to go. Drinking brandy because that's all I could find down the back of the sofa.

[Letters]

That's the thing, where I live now, I have a direct train to London....takes....an hour (to waterloo, so I guess you have 20mins on the tube too).

Also now have the benefit of fresh country air, and tractors and shit.

When I used to go and see MrsL in MK it was about and hour door to door from there so if we moved out it probably wouldn't take longer. It would mean being reliant on that one train line though, right now there are loads of ways I could go to work.
I don't think I'll move out while I'm working in Central London. Plus the area around our place does have quite a village-y feel to it I even have panoramic views of the A10 :cool:

[Goonermerree]

I'm actually working today. Doing a donkey job in between posting here. Transferring domains. 10 down 10 to go. Drinking brandy because that's all I could find down the back of the sofa.

None of you buggers work, you're always on here, all on benefits!!!

[Goonermerree]

When I used to go and see MrsL in MK it was about and hour door to door from there so if we moved out it probably wouldn't take longer. It would mean being reliant on that one train line though, right now there are loads of ways I could go to work.
I don't think I'll move out while I'm working in Central London. Plus the area around our place does have quite a village-y feel to it I even have panoramic views of the A10 :cool:

I used to have panoramic views of the M25 and the M11. It used to look quite striking at night, artistic in its own way.

[LDG]

I'm actually Doing a donkey.

:haha:

[Letters]

Anyway, Letters can just look up the IP. And he does.

Even if he does, our work internet routes through the US so if I tried to locate my own IP shown on here it would show somewhere there.
It's why we gave up on IP bans at the old place, not everyone has a static IP, I believe everyone who used AOL shared one, for example.

[GP]

He's got to be from Kent, surely.

And he wears sandals.

With socks.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I used to have panoramic views of the M25 and the M11. It used to look quite striking at night, artistic in its own way.

Where were you living?...out of a suitcase in a holiday inn?

[Goonermerree]

Where were you living?...out of a suitcase in a holiday inn?

No, across the fields in a little village, but you could see where the M11 swept up north from the M25. It really was striking.

[Niall_Quinn]

None of you buggers work, you're always on here, all on benefits!!!

If you mean work in an office, hell no. Why would I want to do that? All you have to secure a full time GW lifestyle is create a company, find some stupid arseholesclients to pay you and tell them it will be ready next week. Then you can enjoy GW the way it is supposed to be enjoyed.

[Niall_Quinn]

:haha:

You have taken that entirely out of context. And this isn't like a HCZ thing. The donkey said yes.

[Niall_Quinn]

With socks.

Kent FFS!

[Niall_Quinn]

Even if he does, our work internet routes through the US so if I tried to locate my own IP shown on here it would show somewhere there.
It's why we gave up on IP bans at the old place, not everyone has a static IP, I believe everyone who used AOL shared one, for example.

LOL - government internet routes through the US. I BET it does.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And this isn't like a HCZ thing.

and what precisely do you mean by that? <_<

[Letters]

LOL - government internet routes through the US. I BET it does.

We're not really anything to do with the government.

[GP]

Where were you living?...out of a suitcase in a holiday inn?

It's a Travel Tavern!

[Niall_Quinn]

and what precisely do you mean by that? <_<

It was another inspired joke, completely off the cuff. This comes naturally to me.

[Niall_Quinn]

For those of you who aren't pro-Trump.

Are you sure about that? Really, really, sure?

U2 has cancelled their new album release because of Trump's election victory.

Still hate Trump?

I didn't think so.

[LDG]

For those of you who aren't pro-Trump.

Are you sure about that? Really, really, sure?

U2 has cancelled their new album release because of Trump's election victory.

Still hate Trump?

I didn't think so.

:lol:

U2

Awfully irrelevant, and very shit band.

[LDG]

Blue Monday.

Great song.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

For those of you who aren't pro-Trump.

Are you sure about that? Really, really, sure?

U2 has cancelled their new album release because of Trump's election victory.

Still hate Trump?

I didn't think so.

Even with Polliticians and policies i have big question marks over, I try to be fair and give them praise when something they have done results in a positive outcome

This is one such occasion, well done Donald....nicely done.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol:

U2

Awfully irrelevant, and very shit band.

I like some of their stuff, i just can't stand Bono

[Letters]

For those of you who aren't pro-Trump.

Are you sure about that? Really, really, sure?

U2 has cancelled their new album release because of Trump's election victory.

Still hate Trump?

I didn't think so.

They've only delayed it <_<

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jan/10/u2-delay-new-album-donald-trump-election

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I remember about ten-fifteen years ago Johnny Depp living in France said he wouldn't come back to live in the US whilst George W Bush was president

I can't stand this kind of petulence, it's no different to Paul Daniels or whoever else it was saying they'd leave the country if Labour won a general election (can't remember if it was 1992 or 1997).

I don't like Trump, not one bit....but if i was an American as of Friday he would be my President. And i like America and i like the Americans so my hope is that for all his twitter nonsense and bluster he does a good job, somehow brings jobs back to the countries, replaces ACA with something better and more affordable rather than just let congress repeal it......does overhaul these trade deals which do take away American manufacturing jobs.

[Niall_Quinn]

They've only delayed it <_<

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jan/10/u2-delay-new-album-donald-trump-election

Trump fails to deliver :sulk:

[GP]

ffs

IMPEACH!

[Coney]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15965792_559655007572526_5973477701975186674_n.jpg ?oh=dea428b8e6f5826b6870c95a2f409423&oe=591B9E3B

[Coney]

NQ has now offically gone schizo?

[Letters]

One has an underscore...


Also...

Hulk Hogan plays the spoons!

http://newsthump.com/2017/01/17/eric-trump-farting-the-national-anthem-and-hookers-inauguration-plans-revealed/

:lol:

[GP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1iN6gqOsak

[GP]

President Obama has commuted the sentence of Bradley Manning.

[LDG]

Holiday tomorrow :beer:

[Niall_Quinn]

President Obama has commuted the sentence of Bradley Manning.

To try to get Assange to hand himself over. Assange said he'd go to the States and speak to the scumbag prosectors if Obama pardoned Manning. Commuting the sentence is not the same thing, it's just a cynical ploy by one of the most cynical presidents in history. #evenworsethanbush

[Coney]

I've just accidentally swallowed some scrabble tiles.

My next shit could spell disaster.

[Letters]

Who died and made you Letters? <_<

[Letters]

To try to get Assange to hand himself over. Assange said he'd go to the States and speak to the scumbag prosectors if Obama pardoned Manning. Commuting the sentence is not the same thing, it's just a cynical ploy by one of the most cynical presidents in history. #evenworsethanbush

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/19/julian-assange-confirms-he-is-willing-to-travel-to-us-after-manning-decision

[GP]

Assange, Wikileaks and Trump are all under Putin's thumb.

[Power n Glory]

I hear Trump's team are being investigated for their connections with Russia also.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Rex Tillersen does have connections with Russia but those aren't clandestine, he had loads of dealings over Oil as CEO of Exxon Mobil and was awarded the Friend of Russia medal.

With most of his cabinet picks the issue is not so much their politics but their experience for the job


Ben Carson a neurosurgeon placed as head of HUD, basically HUD Projects are often beneficial to Black people and Carson is Black.....and the only other Black person Trump knows is Don King.

Betsy De Vos - Secretary of Education -doesn't quite seem to understand how public education works + advocates public money being used to fund for profit education

Rick Perry - Secretary of Energy - actually one of the departments of government he wanted rid of in his own presidential bid until he realised what the department did

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Assange, Wikileaks and Trump are all under Putin's thumb.

I don't like Putin not one bit, it's fitting that his most vocal oponent is chess champion Gary Kasparov because Putin for me has played the greatest game of international political chess since Otto Van Bismarck in the 19th century.

[Niall_Quinn]

Rex Tillersen does have connections with Russia but those aren't clandestine, he had loads of dealings over Oil as CEO of Exxon Mobil and was awarded the Friend of Russia medal.

With most of his cabinet picks the issue is not so much their politics but their experience for the job


Ben Carson a neurosurgeon placed as head of HUD, basically HUD Projects are often beneficial to Black people and Carson is Black.....and the only other Black person Trump knows is Don King.

Betsy De Vos - Secretary of Education -doesn't quite seem to understand how public education works + advocates public money being used to fund for profit education

Rick Perry - Secretary of Energy - actually one of the departments of government he wanted rid of in his own presidential bid until he realised what the department did

Are you implying the establishment figures who have held senior posts in the past knew a damn thing about what they were doing? A few I suppose, the really crooked bastards who find a way to hang around through successive presidencies. Kissinger, for example. But wouldn't it be better by comparison to the likes of Kissinger or the utterly incompetent Hillary Clinton to have the old lady from down the chip shop as the US Secretary of State? At least fewer people would die. Senior politicians are instruction takers and that's all they are. They make decisions about nothing, they enforce the decisions of their bosses.

We now know who's behind Trump. But not a word said about those guys. I wonder why? Instead we have to put up with utter nonsense about reds under the bed. I bet the same people swallowing this shit would tell you McCarthy was a fool. And yet McCarthy had a lot more to go on (which was close to nothing) compared to the zero evidence, zero facts platform this latest fiasco is running on. It seems to me some people will believe anything if it comes stamped with the establishment seal of approval. Good God. And yet they will scream conspiracy theory when they see actual evidence of genuine government wrongdoing. It's incredible.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't like Putin not one bit, it's fitting that his most vocal oponent is chess champion Gary Kasparov because Putin for me has played the greatest game of international political chess since Otto Van Bismarck in the 19th century.

Does he have a choice? He's fending off a particularly virulent aggressor, after all. He finds himself in the same position as many leaders of interfered with states have experienced. The Americans rattling sabres on his borders. There's no proportion, no context in the western mindset any more. Over here we believe our own bullshit, totally. We've lied to ourselves so frequently the lie has become the commonly held truth. We are stomping around the world imposing our policies by force and subterfuge because we want people to be free. No really. With a bit of luck Putin will manage to stand up to and finally halt these bastards. And if he can do it without causing a nuclear war then we all owe him a big debt of gratitude. He might be a bastard himself but, whether people like it or not, in humanity's fight against the small group of filth who believe they own this planet and all the livestock on it (including us), Putin is in our corner. Enemy of an enemy. Might not be so friendly after the event but we need to be alive and free to cross that bridge.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Does he have a choice? He's fending off a particularly virulent aggressor, after all. He finds himself in the same position as many leaders of interfered with states have experienced. The Americans rattling sabres on his borders. There's no proportion, no context in the western mindset any more. Over here we believe our own bullshit, totally. We've lied to ourselves so frequently the lie has become the commonly held truth. We are stomping around the world imposing our policies by force and subterfuge because we want people to be free. No really. With a bit of luck Putin will manage to stand up to and finally halt these bastards. And if he can do it without causing a nuclear war then we all owe him a big debt of gratitude. He might be a bastard himself but, whether people like it or not, in humanity's fight against the small group of filth who believe they own this planet and all the livestock on it (including us), Putin is in our corner. Enemy of an enemy. Might not be so friendly after the event but we need to be alive and free to cross that bridge.

With respect we have crossed swords over this so many times it's boring

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Are you implying the establishment figures who have held senior posts in the past knew a damn thing about what they were doing? A few I suppose, the really crooked bastards who find a way to hang around through successive presidencies. Kissinger, for example. But wouldn't it be better by comparison to the likes of Kissinger or the utterly incompetent Hillary Clinton to have the old lady from down the chip shop as the US Secretary of State? At least fewer people would die. Senior politicians are instruction takers and that's all they are. They make decisions about nothing, they enforce the decisions of their bosses.

We now know who's behind Trump. But not a word said about those guys. I wonder why? Instead we have to put up with utter nonsense about reds under the bed. I bet the same people swallowing this shit would tell you McCarthy was a fool. And yet McCarthy had a lot more to go on (which was close to nothing) compared to the zero evidence, zero facts platform this latest fiasco is running on. It seems to me some people will believe anything if it comes stamped with the establishment seal of approval. Good God. And yet they will scream conspiracy theory when they see actual evidence of genuine government wrongdoing. It's incredible.

Well i concede your point in regards to Hilary Clinton, there was absolutely nothing that qualified that woman to be secretary of state

I have nothing to say about Steve Mnuchin either especially given Tim Geitner was the chairman of the New York Fed and Jack Lew a former Citigroup employee, hardly change you can believe in.

However even if you take the Rick Perry example, there is a bit of a difference between the outgoing incumbent being a nuclear physicist and a man who has only recently been made aware of what the department does.

For what it's worth I think Gen James Mattis is an excellent choice for defence secretary

[Niall_Quinn]

With respect we have crossed swords over this so many times it's boring

What does that have to do with it? There are the facts and then there's the version people who ignore the facts want to believe in.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well i concede your point in regards to Hilary Clinton, there was absolutely nothing that qualified that woman to be secretary of state

I have nothing to say about Steve Mnuchin either especially given Tim Geitner was the chairman of the New York Fed and Jack Lew a former Citigroup employee, hardly change you can believe in.

However even if you take the Rick Perry example, there is a bit of a difference between the outgoing incumbent being a nuclear physicist and a man who has only recently been made aware of what the department does.

For what it's worth I think Gen James Mattis is an excellent choice for defence secretary

Which one of them advocates doing a single thing other than tinkering with the dummy levers they are allowed to play with? There are so few names back through history who had an agenda that sat outside the establishment box.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What does that have to do with it? There are the facts and then there's the version people who ignore the facts want to believe in.

You're confusing Vladmir Putin's personal paranoia with facts. This idea that there would ever be a nuclear escalation against Moscow whoever is in the white house is nonsense. And there is factual evidence that Russia does directly intervene in the affairs of it's neighbours (like Ukraine) and the argument that he is only doing that because he feels surrounded is the same kind of argument that Islamic extremists only burn people alive and throw people off buildings because the West is unkind.

This isn't about what the west is or is not responsible for, but stating that Vladimir Putin's actions are purely defensive and he had no choice is anything but fact.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're confusing Vladmir Putin's personal paranoia with facts. This idea that there would ever be a nuclear escalation against Moscow whoever is in the white house is nonsense. And there is factual evidence that Russia does directly intervene in the affairs of it's neighbours (like Ukraine) and the argument that he is only doing that because he feels surrounded is the same kind of argument that Islamic extremists only burn people alive and throw people off buildings because the West is unkind.

This isn't about what the west is or is not responsible for, but stating that Vladimir Putin's actions are purely defensive and he had no choice is anything but fact.

The US has some 800-900 military installations across the globe. They have carrier battle groups and submarines stationed in every ocean. Russia and China are encircled. And Putin is the bad guy? China is the threat? Say what? What kind of alternative reality are we discussing here?

Russia, Iran, China, if any of those states stepped outside their much reduced sphere of influence there would 100% be a war with the west. 100% sure thing. And the Ukraine had a government and independence before the Americans overthrew it. If Mexico collapsed under a barrage of Russian political and economic subterfuge, would America watch on? Every step taken by the Russians has been a counter-step. Name one that hasn't. As for paranoia, good grief. Are you listening to what's going on in America right now? It's hilarious and terrifying at the same time. Paranoia needs a new definition. Are these the people you feel are more qualified than Trump's crew?

And this isn't just about Putin. Any nation that has failed to bow to the western bankster culture has been 'liberated' by American bombs, along with firecrackers lobbed by Yankee stooges and hangers on like the British and the French. The illegal war against Iraq, for no reason whatsoever other than to overthrow the guy. That's the most serious war crime it's possible to commit. Libya, Syria, north Africa, look at the state of these places post American 'liberation'. You must have a mental block if you can genuinely compare the likes of Saddam, Gadaffi and Putin to arch war criminals in the west. None of the former are decent human beings, but at least they are/ were human beings. And we can say whatever about fanatical terrorists, but the US Secretary of State trumped them all when she went on TV to laugh about a brutal murder. These people are every bit as bad as the Jihadists in the desert. Totally fanatical, can't be negotiated with and will do whatever it takes, kill whoever they need to to get what they want. Putin knows that, he's not stupid. But, as you say, he's got a brain so he has the advantage there when dealing with Neanderthal, degenerate thugs like Obama.

[Niall_Quinn]

When are we getting rid of the Christmas smileys FFS!

[Letters]

When are we getting rid of the Christmas smileys FFS!

Clear.
Your.
Cache...!

Shift+F5, bitch!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Clear.
Your.
Cache...!

Shift+F5, bitch!

You're about as user friendly as SAP

[Letters]

:lol: Yes, we use SAP here and... :ilt:

That said, they recently started using Concur for expenses, it's only a nicer UI wrapper on top of SAP but it's loads better than using SAP directly.

[Niall_Quinn]

Clear.
Your.
Cache...!

Shift+F5, bitch!

What? Just fix it will you, instead of trying to make out this is down to me.

[Niall_Quinn]

Butt hurt libtards on the BBC are trying everything they can to downplay Trump's inauguration. They just don't get how transparent they appear and sound. Only fools are fooled by them anymore. Legacy fake news.

[Niall_Quinn]

CNN STILL going on about who steps in if Trump is assassinated. :haha:
But seeing as nobody watches CNN these days, the only way you are likely to see their stuff is if another station carries it as a comedy interlude.

They are even running clips of Designated Survivor :haha:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Butt hurt libtards on the BBC are trying everything they can to downplay Trump's inauguration. They just don't get how transparent they appear and sound. Only fools are fooled by them anymore. Legacy fake news.

Oh just fuck off

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh just fuck off

Sorry, but the liberals have shown themselves up for what they are. They don't have an ounce of dignity between them and are more than fair game.

[GP]

I don't think anyone who would use the phrase "butt hurt libtards" is entitled to talk about dignity.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think anyone who would use the phrase "butt hurt libtards" is entitled to talk about dignity.

Why not? That's what they are. Shithead champions for champaign justice provided it's their justice. And then it's a brick through a window and fake news smears when it doesn't go their way. They are an item of ridicule so they are ridiculed.

[GP]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d8/ae/12/d8ae124deae838f48ca1a46b22bea74d.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d8/ae/12/d8ae124deae838f48ca1a46b22bea74d.jpg

These are the last few years in which to frolic. So enjoy.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If you put yourself in any camp you have shorn yourself of dignity


Anyone who thought either candidate represented the end of civilisation needed their head examining

What I thought was interesting about Trumps inaugural speech where as for most presidents it's all flowery rhetoric, this was business rhetoric absolutely jam packed with promises. He is the first president in my lifetime to speak so clearly about how global trade is killing American jobs (it is) but to promise to reverse that trend completely is going to put him at odds with his "buddies" in the GOP. Near the end of his speech he stated the time for empty talk is over, now he's in the position where those words apply to him.

I wish him well in certain respects, I think the American blue collar and middle class needs a champion (I'm just doubtful that it's him but he has the chance to prove me wrong).

I do say unequivocally that if people listened to him speak today and still don't understand why people voted for him than they never will. They know there is a good chance that he is exactly what I think he is a shoddy con merchant who will use the office to enrich himself but they were prepared to take chances.

And if anyone wants to beat Trump in four years they need to pay attention to what he has promised and what he has failed to deliver.

[Power n Glory]

Oh just fuck off

:gp: NQ has finally found his marbles. Best post you've done in years.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you put yourself in any camp you have shorn yourself of dignity


Anyone who thought either candidate represented the end of civilisation needed their head examining

What I thought was interesting about Trumps inaugural speech where as for most presidents it's all flowery rhetoric, this was business rhetoric absolutely jam packed with promises. He is the first president in my lifetime to speak so clearly about how global trade is killing American jobs (it is) but to promise to reverse that trend completely is going to put him at odds with his "buddies" in the GOP. Near the end of his speech he stated the time for empty talk is over, now he's in the position where those words apply to him.

I wish him well in certain respects, I think the American blue collar and middle class needs a champion (I'm just doubtful that it's him but he has the chance to prove me wrong).

I do say unequivocally that if people listened to him speak today and still don't understand why people voted for him than they never will. They know there is a good chance that he is exactly what I think he is a shoddy con merchant who will use the office to enrich himself but they were prepared to take chances.

And if anyone wants to beat Trump in four years they need to pay attention to what he has promised and what he has failed to deliver.

It's very hard to call for sure what's going on here. If Trump doesn't speak for a certain section of the American establishment that has decided to ditch globalisation then he's stuffed. If he's really blowing hot air then he won't survive 4 years. It'll be what happens after that scenario that will be most interesting. A straight choice, long term subjugation as people run back to the mainstream, or civil war. But if Trump is representing an element that does want to change direction then the globalists are done. That's the scenario we have to hope for. One way or another globalisation and multiculturalism have to be destroyed if nation states are going to survive. And we need nation states to survive or else we stand no chance of eliminating government and moving on as a species. I'm tending towards the latter, though it's hard to believe the Koch's and Paulson have jumped off the globalisation ship. Maybe the weirdos they were hooked up with finally became intolerable.

Alex Jones is having a mental breakdown live on air now :haha:

He's a genius marketer. I wonder how much he rakes in every year? A lot.

[WMUG]

Remember when we used to do post milestone threads?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Gordon Kaye is dead

Used it as an excuse to turn to one of the ladies in my office and say "you stupid woman!"

[GP]

Just got back from Blackpool and i'm never going back. I was walking along the seafront when I saw a man and woman having a shouting match. The woman then slapped the man around the head and they started to fight. A policeman showed up but instead of trying to calm it down he started to hit the man with his baton. Then the guy wrestled the baton off the policeman and started to hit the policeman and his wife.
Then a crocodile came and stole all the sausages!

[Letters]

:rimshot:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Just got back from Blackpool and i'm never going back. I was walking along the seafront when I saw a man and woman having a shouting match. The woman then slapped the man around the head and they started to fight. A policeman showed up but instead of trying to calm it down he started to hit the man with his baton. Then the guy wrestled the baton off the policeman and started to hit the policeman and his wife.
Then a crocodile came and stole all the sausages!


The delivery of your joke took too long, it made the Punch line less effective and so basically "that's not the way to do it"

[Letters]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-38723261

and

http://newsthump.com/2017/01/24/we-won-you-lost-get-over-it-brexiters-told-outside-supreme-court/

:lol:

[GP]

British Law enacted in British courts.

Isn't this what leavers wanted?

[Niall_Quinn]

They also want democracy (for some reason). Instead we see again, the people have spoken, the elites decide. Yes of course they have laws to underpin their undemocratic behaviour, that's one of the key functions of law in Britain.

The point is, if we submerge ourselves in an even bigger elitist, bureaucratic sewer then we have even less chance of having our will enacted. So for all its flaws, flaws that must be corrected, if is far better to be dictated to by a local group of cunts than a group of cunts safely tucked away overseas. You can't throw a brick across the Channel. It's just logical if you really want democracy. But it seems quite a lot of people are hopelessly confused and think bigger government and much diminished representation is appealing. It will be up to those who understand liberty to fight for these shrinking lilies when the time comes, just as the men of Britain had to fight to keep the Germans out last time.

Anyway, now we go into the bribery round where unrepresentative weasels who were elected to represent the people, but make not even a passing pretence of it, jostle around the trough to see what's on offer for their vote. The characterless cronies of minuscule stature who decide to go against the democratic voice of the people will all be remembered at the appropriate time.

I see no mention of the plunging pound. I suppose it doesn't fit the narrative now that narrative has flipped 180 and every prediction from the Europhile camp has been exposed as the ridiculous lie it always was. Quite fucking obviously, being detached from a sinking ship provides the brightest outlook for the future. As said at the time, the very scumbags these Europhiles are in bed with, wittingly or unwittingly, will always seize the moment to shave the backs of working people. Farage and Johnson and the gang get a lot of stick, of course they do. Johnson's an epic arsehole and Farage says crazy stuff that doesn't appear anywhere in the establishment manual. It's true, there could be better leaders for this push for independence. But take a look at the Europhile leaders slithering and hissing from the shadows, Tony Blair, Fag Mandelsson, Kenneth Clarke (the modern day Ted Heath and I bet in more ways than one). The Lib Dems. Truly embarrassing and utterly shameless. If cunts like these want something then you must be pretty dumb to want the same thing.

[Ollie the Optimist]

British Law enacted in British courts.

Isn't this what leavers wanted?

It is and it will make no difference really as parliament will vote to trigger Article 50 in the next few weeks so this whole case has been a complete waste of tax payers money and the government should never have taken it to the supreme court.

I have always believed that Parliament needs to be consulted on the final deal and have a vote on it, that is clearly the right thing to do. However, i am not sure why they need to vote to trigger Article 50 when they effectively had a vote to trigger it when they allowed the referendum to take place. I mean, what did they expect they would have to do if leave won? Indeed, both the Government and Parliament told us that they would implement our decision whichever way we voted which means a leave vote would trigger Article 50 as that is the only way to leave the EU.

[Coney]

Despite the BBC and press headlines, the Government did NOT lose in the courts today. The Executive lost. The Government in Britain is Parliament, not No 10. This was clarified in the 1980s by the high court.

The judgement clarified what we fought for in the civil war in the 1640s - that the royal perogative was subject to the will of the people expressed by their representatives in Parliament. The monarch does not have the power to rule without permission of Parliament and neither does the Prime Minister.

This issue is more important than Brexit or Bremain - it is about the leaders being reminded that they govern by consent of Parliament and are not to just make decisions without getting that consent first.

However, there is a problem with the government in this country and has been since the year dot. Although we have a form of democracy where we can choose our representatives in parliament, most people do not take an interest either through stupidity or downright ignorance so they have no chance of getting an MP to represent them. They just listen to the latest sound bites and believe in the crap they are fed. Along side this are parties run by marketing types. Once upon a time, MPs had to go out and speak to their voters. They got on stages, in towns, etc. and told people what they thought and what they would do, and the (in the main) meant it and believed in it - they actually stood for something and you could vote yeah or nay. Nowadays, they have marketing people who look at what might go down well, teach them to use weasel words and to look nice and as a result we have MPs who have no conviction in what they do - they just do what seems likely to keep things ticking over with no end target or purpose. Farage did not win because he won arguments - he won because he looked as if he believed in something and the opposition had no conviction politicians to stand up and argue back with the same passion. I still see no sign of that from Labour, Conservative or LibDem. (I can barely remember what the LibDem new leader looks like - they have become a joke since Clegg sold out in 2010 and sounded the death knell of his party.)

Be that as it may, while we might not have everything we want, we should defend the supremacy of Parliament over the Executive as the cost of not doing that is too high. We have had this system for 350+ years and it has kept the country fairly stable while broadly moving forwards (albeit with a way to go still) and relative stability is more valuable than some might realise.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Despite the BBC and press headlines, the Government did NOT lose in the courts today. The Executive lost. The Government in Britain is Parliament, not No 10. This was clarified in the 1980s by the high court.

The judgement clarified what we fought for in the civil war in the 1640s - that the royal perogative was subject to the will of the people expressed by their representatives in Parliament. The monarch does not have the power to rule without permission of Parliament and neither does the Prime Minister.

This issue is more important than Brexit or Bremain - it is about the leaders being reminded that they govern by consent of Parliament and are not to just make decisions without getting that consent first.

However, there is a problem with the government in this country and has been since the year dot. Although we have a form of democracy where we can choose our representatives in parliament, most people do not take an interest either through stupidity or downright ignorance so they have no chance of getting an MP to represent them. They just listen to the latest sound bites and believe in the crap they are fed. Along side this are parties run by marketing types. Once upon a time, MPs had to go out and speak to their voters. They got on stages, in towns, etc. and told people what they thought and what they would do, and the (in the main) meant it and believed in it - they actually stood for something and you could vote yeah or nay. Nowadays, they have marketing people who look at what might go down well, teach them to use weasel words and to look nice and as a result we have MPs who have no conviction in what they do - they just do what seems likely to keep things ticking over with no end target or purpose. Farage did not win because he won arguments - he won because he looked as if he believed in something and the opposition had no conviction politicians to stand up and argue back with the same passion. I still see no sign of that from Labour, Conservative or LibDem. (I can barely remember what the LibDem new leader looks like - they have become a joke since Clegg sold out in 2010 and sounded the death knell of his party.)

Be that as it may, while we might not have everything we want, we should defend the supremacy of Parliament over the Executive as the cost of not doing that is too high. We have had this system for 350+ years and it has kept the country fairly stable while broadly moving forwards (albeit with a way to go still) and relative stability is more valuable than some might realise.


You are spot on with the above. However, I just disagree slightly with the leaders having to get consent first before taking decisions in this case of triggering Article 50. Now, if the Prime Minister suddenly decided to trigger Article 50 under royal prerogative with no referendum then that is completely wrong and unlawful. However, in this case I believe consent was given when Parliament authorised the referendum and told the British electorate that they would enact whatever decision they took. To me, that is effectively Parliament giving consent to the Leader to enact the decision made by the voters which in this case happened to be to leave the EU.

However that is not to say that Parliament should not give its consent to the final deal. They of course should be consulted and vote for or against it. By allowing the referendum they in my opinion gave consent to triggering Article 50 as this was the only way to enact a leave vote but they have not given consent to the leader to accept any deal and enforce it on the electorate without their say.

[Coney]

You are spot on with the above. However, I just disagree slightly with the leaders having to get consent first before taking decisions in this case of triggering Article 50. Now, if the Prime Minister suddenly decided to trigger Article 50 under royal prerogative with no referendum then that is completely wrong and unlawful. However, in this case I believe consent was given when Parliament authorised the referendum and told the British electorate that they would enact whatever decision they took. To me, that is effectively Parliament giving consent to the Leader to enact the decision made by the voters which in this case happened to be to leave the EU.

However that is not to say that Parliament should not give its consent to the final deal. They of course should be consulted and vote for or against it. By allowing the referendum they in my opinion gave consent to triggering Article 50 as this was the only way to enact a leave vote but they have not given consent to the leader to accept any deal and enforce it on the electorate without their say.

What Cameron & Co should have done was to have the Article 50 trigger built into the referendum bill which parliament passed and then it would have not been an issue. However, Cameron and Co were smugly assuming they would win the vote so they did not do a full job on the referendum bill. Ironically, their right-wing mass media that normally supports the conservative party supported exit - in the case of the Daily Heil and the Daily Excess, using racism, xenophobia and various lies. After all, it is supposed to be a recession so you have to blame foreigners, minorities and other people so everyone is happy it was not their fault. The stupid brexiteers (more old than young) could not see that the reason for their problems was not the EU, it was the unfair excess that the rich have and the middle and lower income people being screwed by greedy Tories and their supporters who would rather have a tax cut they don't really need than have hospitals with enough beds to be able to handle patients. But in tough times, racism, xenophobia and excessive nationalism works a treat. Hitler, Stalin and now a number of European - and general Western - governments are all doing it.

[Niall_Quinn]

It is and it will make no difference really as parliament will vote to trigger Article 50 in the next few weeks so this whole case has been a complete waste of tax payers money and the government should never have taken it to the supreme court.

I have always believed that Parliament needs to be consulted on the final deal and have a vote on it, that is clearly the right thing to do. However, i am not sure why they need to vote to trigger Article 50 when they effectively had a vote to trigger it when they allowed the referendum to take place. I mean, what did they expect they would have to do if leave won? Indeed, both the Government and Parliament told us that they would implement our decision whichever way we voted which means a leave vote would trigger Article 50 as that is the only way to leave the EU.

That's the point isn't it? Parliament had its vote when it voted to send the decision to the British people. So all this rubbish about parliament needing to vote again, for what we already voted for, and then I guess vote on something else after that, and then something else, it's pretty obvious what it is. A delaying tactic while the Euro cronies try to change the landscape or frighten people into a reversal or watered down halfway house. Cunts like Blair openly admit as much. Arrogant fucking war criminal that he is. They have absolutely zero legitimacy in their request for any parliament intervention in the matter of whether we should withdraw or not. That has been decided and in the most democratic manner we have seen in many years. Not that that's a good or a bad thing, we could do a hell of a lot better than democracy, but if you make a set of rules and everyone agrees to play by them then stick to the fucking rules. It's interesting (and predictable) that the "progressives" have lost both landmark votes in 2016 and have been exposed as entirely anti-democratic after the event. The hypocrisy and arrogance drips from them, they simply can't conceive their fucked up political correctness, their mega state, their culture extinctions being brought about by their shitty, commie style lowest common denominator "equality" and forced multiculturalism, their environmental scams and general micro managed interference in the lives of private individuals are not all music to the ears of every last and, should they have their way, homogenised human being. I really think it has come as a massive shock to them to be told to fuck off.

[Letters]

By "all this rubbish" you mean British law?

[Niall_Quinn]

What Cameron & Co should have done was to have the Article 50 trigger built into the referendum bill which parliament passed and then it would have not been an issue. However, Cameron and Co were smugly assuming they would win the vote so they did not do a full job on the referendum bill. Ironically, their right-wing mass media that normally supports the conservative party supported exit - in the case of the Daily Heil and the Daily Excess, using racism, xenophobia and various lies. After all, it is supposed to be a recession so you have to blame foreigners, minorities and other people so everyone is happy it was not their fault. The stupid brexiteers (more old than young) could not see that the reason for their problems was not the EU, it was the unfair excess that the rich have and the middle and lower income people being screwed by greedy Tories and their supporters who would rather have a tax cut they don't really need than have hospitals with enough beds to be able to handle patients. But in tough times, racism, xenophobia and excessive nationalism works a treat. Hitler, Stalin and now a number of European - and general Western - governments are all doing it.

When will the cringeworthy stereotyping that pulls every trick to skirt and evade the main issue finally die, I wonder? Certainly neither the left nor the right here or in America seem to have learned the lesson of categorising everyone who doesn't agree with them (and their persistent string of failures) into one broad grouping. The Remain lot, who are easily recognised as a diverse coalition, need to get to grip with reality some time soon and realise there's a bit more to their protagonists than the stupid crayon drawings and paint daubing offered up to date.

[Niall_Quinn]

By "all this rubbish" you mean British law?

I mean in the context of the other 100 or so words.

[Letters]

Comic Sans! :lol:

http://newsthump.com/2017/01/25/brexit-whitepaper-just-says-get-over-it-in-comic-sans/

[Power n Glory]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753000


"When they're shooting, when they're chopping off the heads of our people and other people, when they're chopping off the heads of people because they happen to be a Christian in the Middle East, when Isis (IS) is doing things that nobody has ever heard of since Medieval times, would I feel strongly about waterboarding?" he asked.

"I have spoken with people at the highest level of intelligence and I asked them the question 'Does it work? Does torture work?' and the answer was 'Yes, absolutely'.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753000

Because they are acting like atavistic savages it makes water boarding a successful way of eliciting true information

Whether he feels strongly about it is irrelevant, whether he feels using a pair of pliers to pull people's nails out or using jump leads on their nipples is fair game is irrelevant

The issue is a) whether it reveals accurate information or not b) does it put more American lives in danger in reprisal than it saves

[Power n Glory]

Because they are acting like atavistic savages it makes water boarding a successful way of eliciting true information

Whether he feels strongly about it is irrelevant, whether he feels using a pair of pliers to pull people's nails out or using jump leads on their nipples is fair game is irrelevant

The issue is a) whether it reveals accurate information or not b) does it put more American lives in danger in reprisal than it saves

Who are you responding to? :unsure: Do hear voices in your own head when writing? I haven't attempted to form an argument on what Trump feels. Just left it up there blank with no comment.

[Letters]

Because they are acting like atavistic savages it makes water boarding a successful way of eliciting true information
Does it? Information, sure. But true information? Not so sure.

[Power n Glory]

Does it? Information, sure. But true information? Not so sure.

That's always been the issue. Is it reliable information? Didn't the movie Zero Dark Thirty tackle this subject?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Who are you responding to? :unsure: Do hear voices in your own head when writing? I haven't attempted to form an argument on what Trump feels. Just left it up there blank with no comment.

You have a real persecution complex don't you matey?

I wasn't starting an argument with you, i am just commenting on Trump's mentality when it comes to torture because you had posted his comments in the first place. Nothing i wrote even remotely suggested you'd taken a point of view over it

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Does it? Information, sure. But true information? Not so sure.

No that was the point i was making, it often doesn't. I was criticising Trump for stating that because they behave like savages that somehow makes waterboarding more legitimate.

[Letters]

Ah :good:

I was hoping he might tone it down as President but he's acting exactly the way I feared he would so far. :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ah :good:

I was hoping he might tone it down as President but he's acting exactly the way I feared he would so far. :(

I don't think it means a lot what he says personally, it's what his defence secretary and CIA chief think......and from my understanding they are at odds with him over this.

So like with Mexico paying for the wall, i think this will be a case of constant tough talk but nothing to show for it.

[Power n Glory]

You have a real persecution complex don't you matey?

I wasn't starting an argument with you, i am just commenting on Trump's mentality when it comes to torture because you had posted his comments in the first place. Nothing i wrote even remotely suggested you'd taken a point of view over it

Not at all but where is the confusion on what the issue is? Trump made it clear that he believes waterboarding works. Did you really need to rehash the point as if something had be lost in translation? It just sounds like you've had the conversation else where.

[Niall_Quinn]

Because they are acting like atavistic savages it makes water boarding a successful way of eliciting true information

Whether he feels strongly about it is irrelevant, whether he feels using a pair of pliers to pull people's nails out or using jump leads on their nipples is fair game is irrelevant

The issue is a) whether it reveals accurate information or not b) does it put more American lives in danger in reprisal than it saves

Tackling the symptoms rather than the problem again. Lefties could get away with the torture and drone strike stuff because Obama is a world class liar over just about everything. Trump blurts shit out and often it's what he actually thinks. As Trump reveals more of its inner workings people have to ask themselves the question, can they condone the behaviour of the US government, right across the board? The correct answer is no, of course not. So it's fun watching people try to find the ways. Last I heard every study pointed to the close on total ineffectiveness of torture as a means of gathering information. Maybe that has changed. I doubt it. Considering the justification is it saves lives you then have to ask, where's the government that ever gave a shit about human lives? Nowhere. So what's their next justification or will they just continue to pretend?

Ron Paul remains the only presidential candidate who had it right. You don't need torture if you don't get involved in the first place. Minding your own business is the best form of security. Enemies are manufactured, they don't spring out of the ether. America has enough firepower to blast any protagonist off the face of the earth. Nobody would ever fuck with them by choice.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

"I'm sorry I thought you were arguing with me"

Nine words that would have made this all very much easier. This is a place where people are expressing their opinions and constantly you seem to have an issue with me expressing mine.....its frankly bizarre

I'm expressing my view that Trump is saying he is cool with water boarding because of what Islamic extremists do to Americans is irrelevant.

It's a bit like saying the Death Penalty works because Ted Bundy killed and mutilated scores of women.

That you chose like you so often do to take it as an attack on you is frankly bizarre, far more bizarre than your analysis of my musings being unnecessary.

Stop thinking that every time I respond to you I'm trying to troll you, I respond to a lot of people here. Actually in many instances I agree with you on things.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ah :good:

I was hoping he might tone it down as President but he's acting exactly the way I feared he would so far. :(

Blimey, if you predicted how Trump has behaved so far the fair play. Nobody else has. On this one issue, he's racking up the military support from every corner. What he's really doing here is sending a message, don't worry guys, when you go abroad on missions of conquest for the empire and its mates at Exxon Mobil you won't be prosecuted whatever shit you get up to. It's more honest that anything we heard from that shit Obama. He hid behind a pack of lies, pretending he wasn't one of the worst savages ever to occupy the office. Trump has just said sure, lay all that shit at my door, I don't give a fuck. The lefties who sat on their hands through every Obama rendition and drone strike will be suddenly outraged, I'm sure.

[Niall_Quinn]

"I'm sorry I thought you were arguing with me"

Nine words that would have made this all very much easier. This is a place where people are expressing their opinions and constantly you seem to have an issue with me expressing mine.....its frankly bizarre

I'm expressing my view that Trump is saying he is cool with water boarding because of what Islamic extremists do to Americans is irrelevant.

It's a bit like saying the Death Penalty works because Ted Bundy killed and mutilated scores of women.

That you chose like you so often do to take it as an attack on you is frankly bizarre, far more bizarre than your analysis of my musings being unnecessary.

Stop thinking that every time I respond to you I'm trying to troll you, I respond to a lot of people here. Actually in many instances I agree with you on things.

Troll :sulk:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's tackling the symptom and not the problem if you believe that these individuals wouldn't act in the way they did even if America shut up shop militarily and confined itself to within its geographic borders.

You mention nuclear weapons as a deterrent saying no one would actively Fuck over the US by choice.

To quote Osama Bin Laden "we love death more than they love life". And in that sense I do think it's important to stop countries like Iran having nuclear weapons themselves, anymore than I'm really comfortable with Israel having them (plenty of cult of death fanatics in that country as well).

[Power n Glory]

Blimey, if you predicted how Trump has behaved so far the fair play. Nobody else has. On this one issue, he's racking up the military support from every corner. What he's really doing here is sending a message, don't worry guys, when you go abroad on missions of conquest for the empire and its mates at Exxon Mobil you won't be prosecuted whatever shit you get up to. It's more honest that anything we heard from that shit Obama. He hid behind a pack of lies, pretending he wasn't one of the worst savages ever to occupy the office. Trump has just said sure, lay all that shit at my door, I don't give a fuck. The lefties who sat on their hands through every Obama rendition and drone strike will be suddenly outraged, I'm sure.

And that makes it ok with you?

[Niall_Quinn]

And that makes it ok with you?

Struggling to find the part where I said it was okay. All I can find is me saying it's not okay. So you'll need to show me precisely how you jumped to that conclusion.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's tackling the symptom and not the problem if you believe that these individuals wouldn't act in the way they did even if America shut up shop militarily and confined itself to within its geographic borders.

You mention nuclear weapons as a deterrent saying no one would actively Fuck over the US by choice.

To quote Osama Bin Laden "we love death more than they love life". And in that sense I do think it's important to stop countries like Iran having nuclear weapons themselves, anymore than I'm really comfortable with Israel having them (plenty of cult of death fanatics in that country as well).

I didn't say they should shut up shop militarily. I said they should mind their own business because if you genuinely want security (which they don't) then it's best achieved by keeping your nose out of other nation's affairs. I didn't mention nuclear weapons. But on that topic, if we can tolerate Pakistan having nuclear weapons then it's illogical to fear Iran or anyone else having them. Makes no sense at all. Pakistan is probably the largest lunatic asylum on the planet. India keeps them in check, there's no need for anyone else to intervene and in fact it's very dangerous to do so. Yet America shovels weapons into the region. It's the same with Israel and the Mid East. America dumping huge amounts of armaments and cash is the main reason for the longevity of that crisis. Israel couldn't throw its weight around so much and would have to rely on negotiation if it were not for America standing behind it. That's bankrupt America by the way. Trillions in debt but billions still sent to warmongers abroad. How can that possibly promote security? All it can do is undermine it. All of the good guy/ bad guy bullshit is media propaganda. Committing extreme crimes against humanity and then blaming the victim is a primary role of the legacy media and we know this to be the case because we've all seen them do it in our own lifetimes, we don't need to rely on anything bar our own eyes and ears. So then the argument goes, well the other guy is worse. But that's no argument at all. Certainly, if the other guy starts lobbing bombs or missiles at America or attacking legitimate (legitimate) American targets overseas then a response is required. Nobody could deny that right. But a pre-emptive response to shit that might happen based on prior American aggression? That's Dr Strangelove and the gang fretting about a mineshaft gap.

[Power n Glory]

Struggling to find the part where I said it was okay. All I can find is me saying it's not okay. So you'll need to show me precisely how you jumped to that conclusion.

Just searching for clarity. Always a worry when I see someone deflecting attention to what other parties have done and then come back with an ‘at least he’s honest’ comment as if that makes it ok. :lol:

It’s early days for Trump but it’s worry and as said to you after his election, it’s not a sign of progress. Will be interesting to see how far your support for him goes.

[Letters]

Blimey, if you predicted how Trump has behaved so far the fair play. Nobody else has.
:blink:
It wasn't a prediction, he's continued to act in the same oafish way that he acted in the run up to the election. I hoped now he has some actual responsibility and power he might tone it down a notch.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't disagree, i'm not happy with Pakistan or Israel having these kind of weapons. And in fact whatever i say about Russia i am far more comfortable with them having them than the other two i've mentioned because Russia is a kleptocratic state but it's not a messianic one and post soviet i don't think it would be the aggressor in a nuclear exchange because it's own self-preservation Trumps all this.

I would prefer no-one had them in fact, but i certainly don't back Donald Trump's assertion that making it even worse (countries like Saudi Arabia getting them) would in anyway help.

I don't believe in the mind your own business philosophy, let's be fair it's not like the British and the Americans haven't been keen to do just that. When Clinton took office in 1993, John Major and his government were even upset that relief air drops were occuring in the Balkans, obviously thinking it far more acceptable that the Bosnians be starved to death.

In the Granit Xhaka airport debate yesterday you made the point that if a member of airport staff was being physically assaulted there would be justification to intervene if someone were witnessing it, i take that point and agree with it...i think violence is permissible in self defence and to intervene when it's being done to those who can't defend themselves.

If you are telling me that Britain and America have over reached in that moral mandate i wouldn't disagree with you, have they engaged in geopolitics designed only for their own benefit....absolutely they have. But i don't and will never believe that them deciding that the world's affairs are none of their business will stop one nation doing harm either to another or to it's own citizens.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just searching for clarity. Always a worry when I see someone deflecting attention to what other parties have done and then come back with an ‘at least he’s honest’ comment as if that makes it ok. :lol:

It’s early days for Trump but it’s worry and as said to you after his election, it’s not a sign of progress. Will be interesting to see how far your support for him goes.

I don't support him at all. You really do trade off a strange bag of assumptions. I'm extremely pleased he's been elected though as it drives a massive wedge right through the establishment and is hugely disruptive. The biggest threat to the status quo in a generation. He's annihilated the legacy media so I'm pleased with that too. And he's ripped the mask off the liberal lefties and their globalisation racket so that's another considerable benefit. You'd literally have to be a moron to vote for the Democrats now, although that doesn't mean they wont get a lot of votes. Plenty of morons knocking about as we see every day as the meltdown accelerates. If he can destroy or further expose the Republicans too, and he's already done that job to a degree but unfortunately they inherited power on his coattails, that would be the icing. But most importantly he's curbed the push for conflict with Russia and that directly affects me and all of us in the most fundamental way. I'm pretty sure anyone who voted for Clinton was completely ignorant of or in denial of her absolute determination to drag us into at least a series of proxy wars and, knowing how incompetent the bitch is and who stands behind her pulling the strings, something far worse. So all in all Trump is very good news for America and for the rest of us too. And the comedy of it all is very enjoyable also.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't disagree, i'm not happy with Pakistan or Israel having these kind of weapons. And in fact whatever i say about Russia i am far more comfortable with them having them than the other two i've mentioned because Russia is a kleptocratic state but it's not a messianic one and post soviet i don't think it would be the aggressor in a nuclear exchange because it's own self-preservation Trumps all this.

I would prefer no-one had them in fact, but i certainly don't back Donald Trump's assertion that making it even worse (countries like Saudi Arabia getting them) would in anyway help.

I don't believe in the mind your own business philosophy, let's be fair it's not like the British and the Americans haven't been keen to do just that. When Clinton took office in 1993, John Major and his government were even upset that relief air drops were occuring in the Balkans, obviously thinking it far more acceptable that the Bosnians be starved to death.

In the Granit Xhaka airport debate yesterday you made the point that if a member of airport staff was being physically assaulted there would be justification to intervene if someone were witnessing it, i take that point and agree with it...i think violence is permissible in self defence and to intervene when it's being done to those who can't defend themselves.

If you are telling me that Britain and America have over reached in that moral mandate i wouldn't disagree with you, have they engaged in geopolitics designed only for their own benefit....absolutely they have. But i don't and will never believe that them deciding that the world's affairs are none of their business will stop one nation doing harm either to another or to it's own citizens.

Seriously though, America and Britain have tried to be non-interventionist? Their whole histories revolve around intervention, they are notorious for it and much despised. It's just not rational to suggest otherwise.

In terms of humanitarian intervention, well that's usually symptom fighting again. Strife can usually be traced back to a prior intervention, either military or economic. The vast majority of these conflicts are brought about by intervention of one from or another, overt or covert. Of course the human suffering occurs regardless of how the conflict was brought about, so perhaps humanitarian intervention can be justified in the short term. But a longer term policy of intervention can never be justified because it implies the policies that cause these conflicts in the first place have not been revised or rejected.

Stop selling loads of weapons, stop covert insurgency operations, stop unwarranted sanctions driven by private business interests, stop assassinations and invasions. Stop providing the fuel for these conflicts. That has to be part of the humanitarian package or else what you really end up with is a carefully plotted policy of aggression and criminality masquerading as humanitarian intervention, which is what we have now. And be honest about the causes of these conflicts. Stop created bogeymen, certainly stop overthrowing legitimate governments and replacing them with thuggish despotism.

It's all well and good to look at the end result and say we must do something because it's the right thing to do. Well it's also the right thing to not cause the problem in the first place and that's where a non-interventionist policy works well. But the bottom line is this. Non-intervention is not as profitable as war. So pretty damn soon people are going to have to acknowledge that the biggest security threat their nations face is the military industrial complex. Eisenhower and Kennedy both spelled this out clearly. You'd think people might listen to the guy who headed up the whole of WWII, or to a man so many regard as the greatest president of modern times (for whatever reason). But no, apparently not. The media is taken as more credible, which is another manifestation of the general insanity installed that afflicts the average citizen.

I don't imagine Trump can change any of this and it sounds like he acknowledges as much himself. So it sounds like he's going to bribe the cunts and maybe that's why the demonic Koch's and Paulsons are aboard. Maybe if you give this sub-human filth enough cash and guarantee their place at the trough long term they'll stop agitating for wars and take the easier option. Personally I'd just send assassination squads in the the night and be done with it once and for all.

[Niall_Quinn]

:blink:
It wasn't a prediction, he's continued to act in the same oafish way that he acted in the run up to the election. I hoped now he has some actual responsibility and power he might tone it down a notch.

Yeah, it's a little more complex that the newspapers make out.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:blink:
It wasn't a prediction, he's continued to act in the same oafish way that he acted in the run up to the election. I hoped now he has some actual responsibility and power he might tone it down a notch.

You speak as though he has an on and off switch

Does Trump believe everything he says No but that's not the point, there isn't anyone behind the Trump mask you aren't seeing a masterful performance you are seeing Donald Trump being Donald Trump. The bluster and machismo is all there is to him, this isn't a character who is full of depth. It's not that he's stupid, he's just lived his whole life believing in his own infallibility and therefore for his own peace of mind he has to relentlessly go after anyone who questions it.

Whatever people laud in someone who is a threat to the establishment (and no that's no bad thing) but they should be very concerned about someone who is totally incapable of any form of self reflection and seems to not even be aware in his mind of what is truth and what is something he or someone else has lied about.

I read the transcript of his interview with ABC news last night and it came across very clear that he's not well.

[Power n Glory]

I don't support him at all. You really do trade off a strange bag of assumptions. I'm extremely pleased he's been elected though as it drives a massive wedge right through the establishment and is hugely disruptive. The biggest threat to the status quo in a generation. He's annihilated the legacy media so I'm pleased with that too. And he's ripped the mask off the liberal lefties and their globalisation racket so that's another considerable benefit. You'd literally have to be a moron to vote for the Democrats now, although that doesn't mean they wont get a lot of votes. Plenty of morons knocking about as we see every day as the meltdown accelerates. If he can destroy or further expose the Republicans too, and he's already done that job to a degree but unfortunately they inherited power on his coattails, that would be the icing. But most importantly he's curbed the push for conflict with Russia and that directly affects me and all of us in the most fundamental way. I'm pretty sure anyone who voted for Clinton was completely ignorant of or in denial of her absolute determination to drag us into at least a series of proxy wars and, knowing how incompetent the bitch is and who stands behind her pulling the strings, something far worse. So all in all Trump is very good news for America and for the rest of us too. And the comedy of it all is very enjoyable also.

Whatever. What good is that wedge through the establishment and him being a threat to the status quo if the replacement has the potential to be worse? We'll soon see how this pans out. People aren't growing wiser.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/26/full-transcript-president-donald-trumps-interview-abc-news/

This for me gives great insight into Trump and it's someone you hope won't last eight years in office simply because it would be worse on him psychologically than any torture he advocates for enemy combatants, on every level this guy is psychologically unsuited to the office he won. When he lies he does so pathologically because he is totally unable to acknowledge any failure on his part, and in a role where you are under 24/7 scrutiny whether it's fair or not fair is not like being the head of the Trump Organisation where he's rich enough for facts and figures to bend to his whim.
Despite what the women's marchers think, Trump is not a villain of any kind, he's a victim of his own making.

[Letters]

You speak as though he has an on and off switch

Does Trump believe everything he says No but that's not the point, there isn't anyone behind the Trump mask you aren't seeing a masterful performance you are seeing Donald Trump being Donald Trump. The bluster and machismo is all there is to him, this isn't a character who is full of depth. It's not that he's stupid, he's just lived his whole life believing in his own infallibility and therefore for his own peace of mind he has to relentlessly go after anyone who questions it.

Whatever people laud in someone who is a threat to the establishment (and no that's no bad thing) but they should be very concerned about someone who is totally incapable of any form of self reflection and seems to not even be aware in his mind of what is truth and what is something he or someone else has lied about.

I read the transcript of his interview with ABC news last night and it came across very clear that he's not well.

Not an on-off switch but I did rather hope that some of his bluster was merely a tactic. His acceptance speech after the election was somewhat more conciliatory than his pre-election rhetoric so I thought maybe he was going to tone it down somewhat but as you say, he can't. It's what and who he is. :ilt:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not an on-off switch but I did rather hope that some of his bluster was merely a tactic. His acceptance speech after the election was somewhat more conciliatory than his pre-election rhetoric so I thought maybe he was going to tone it down somewhat but as you say, he can't. It's what and who he is. :ilt:

I think his acceptance speech also sums up his personality, even Steve Bannon said of him if you want to get anywhere with Trump you need to stroke his ego. What bigger ego feed could there be that being elected president of the United States, so therefore for a period anyway he's all docile and pleasant.

For me he surpasses Richard Nixon in being unable to overlook slights, what happened with Watergate and the cover ups was inevitable because of Nixon's self destructive personality and something similar will probably bring down Trump. My personal feeling is that instead of being forced to resign he will choose not to run for a second term in order to control the narrative.

He is a textbook case of Narcissistic personality disorder, and in some ways that self-believe, self-confidence is very helpful and can give you the edge, but it's also very self-destructive because people lash out rather than engage with constructive criticism.

Jose Mourinho has exactly the same condition in my view and it presents itself clearly in his managerial history.

[Letters]

Completely agree about the narcissistic personality disorder. It's just weird reading through that transcript of the interview (which I haven't finished).
The stuff about voter fraud :lol:
He just CANNOT accept anything which could possibly show him in a bad light, so he would have won the popular vote if he'd wanted to, there were millions of votes cast fraudulently and they were ALL for Clinton.
It's just bizarre, and worrying now he has some real power. And those who say he hasn't and he's just a figurehead - he's spent the last few days signing executive orders which will change people's lives.

[Power n Glory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl6xmB3MeU0

Watch the full interview. The guys a loop.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Completely agree about the narcissistic personality disorder. It's just weird reading through that transcript of the interview (which I haven't finished).
The stuff about voter fraud :lol:
He just CANNOT accept anything which could possibly show him in a bad light, so he would have won the popular vote if he'd wanted to, there were millions of votes cast fraudulently and they were ALL for Clinton.
It's just bizarre, and worrying now he has some real power. And those who say he hasn't and he's just a figurehead - he's spent the last few days signing executive orders which will change people's lives.

But even executive orders are legislation and who is drafting that legislation for Trump to sign, i'm going to guess he's not doing it himself. And i imagine he's signed nothing so far that the Republican congressional leadership didn't want him to sign. He may not be a figurehead but the executive orders are certainly no proof of that.

[Letters]

"The people of the CIA loved the speech. If I was going to take a vote in that room, there were, like, 300, 350 people, over 1,000 wanted to be there but they couldn't. They were all CIA people. I would say I would've gotten 350 to nothing in that room. That's what the vote would've been. That speech was a big hit, a big success -- success."

:lol:

Wow, 350 to 0. His imaginary approval rating in the vote which didn't happen is impressive.
The bloke is ill.

[Letters]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-publish-weekly-list-crimes-immigrants-commit-refugees-aliens-executive-order-us-a7546826.html

:ilt:

[Niall_Quinn]

"The people of the CIA loved the speech. If I was going to take a vote in that room, there were, like, 300, 350 people, over 1,000 wanted to be there but they couldn't. They were all CIA people. I would say I would've gotten 350 to nothing in that room. That's what the vote would've been. That speech was a big hit, a big success -- success."

:lol:

Wow, 350 to 0. His imaginary approval rating in the vote which didn't happen is impressive.
The bloke is ill.

You're not really understanding any of this are you? Trump's team has the generals, the rank and file military and law enforcement, the rank and file FBI and intelligence services and probably the NSA. The globalists have the senior execs at State, FBI, CIA. Trump will be moving to oust that lot shortly. His message wasn't to you.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-publish-weekly-list-crimes-immigrants-commit-refugees-aliens-executive-order-us-a7546826.html

:ilt:

Smart move. The left is gearing up to make a stand on state rights with the sanctuary cities, not that they ever gave a shit about state rights but it's useful for them on this occasion. Any success there will quickly spread to other challenges. This constant stream of reminders should undermine that effort from within. Personally I'd prefer to see independent states and the break up of the United States corporation (did you notice how the pledge was to the United States and Trump added, of America. Big message there too.), but not of it means the globalists gain power centres. Better to smash them now while there's momentum.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl6xmB3MeU0

Watch the full interview. The guys a loop.

Yep. Anyone who isn't on message is mentally deficient. Because decades of management by respectable types has made the world what it is today and anybody can see just how sane that is.

[Letters]

You're not really understanding any of this are you?
I'm not clever like you.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not clever like you.

I just explained what was happening so you could understand. Now you don't have any excuses.

[Power n Glory]

Yep. Anyone who isn't on message is mentally deficient. Because decades of management by respectable types has made the world what it is today and anybody can see just how sane that is.

You lose credibility with each attempted deflection. People have grown tired of the typical 'respectable' politicians that only serve the interests of the top 1% but you're an even bigger loop if you think it's a good idea to hand power over directly to the corporate tycoons who've been well served by the establishment. Yes, that's sane. A step closer to a society run by corporations and celebrities. Great stuff.

[Niall_Quinn]

You lose credibility with each attempted deflection. People have grown tired of the typical 'respectable' politicians that only serve the interests of the top 1% but you're an even bigger loop if you think it's a good idea to hand power over directly to the corporate tycoons who've been well served by the establishment. Yes, that's sane. A step closer to a society run by corporations and celebrities. Great stuff.

Which suggests you imagine the corporations aren't already running the show? Did you sleep right through 2008? How could Trump and his cronies top that? What sort of egregious insanity could they inflict that comes anywhere near what we have already seen? Trump's team has eviscerated the legacy media, stabilised relations with Russia, dug out and dumped several of the key foundations of the next stage of globalisation. In a few short months he's achieved more than every president of the last 40 years combined. But I don't imagine you are approaching this from an operational standpoint, rather a political and partisan position. So this would explain why you are ascribing the track record of those who went before and those who thought they were next in line to a guy who has only been in office a week. The "choice" the people were handed was Trump or Clinton. That was supposed to be no choice at all and Clinton was supposed to sail through by a landslide endorsement and usher in the next round of globalisation. The very fact that hasn't happened should be enough in itself to have everyone cheering from the rooftops - whether they could give a shit about Trump or not. But instead we have this ongoing pining for a candidate who was so toxic she couldn't even land a shoo-in. A candidate so embedded with big business she might as well have been wearing their logos in neon. Oh, and a member of the celebrity Clinton tribe who along with the Bush's handed over America lock, stock and oil drum to a tiny fraction of its population and at the expense of the rest of that population. So here we are accusing Trump of doing that. After a week. And I'm the one with the credibility problem?

[Power n Glory]

Which suggests you imagine the corporations aren't already running the show? Did you sleep right through 2008? How could Trump and his cronies top that? What sort of egregious insanity could they inflict that comes anywhere near what we have already seen? Trump's team has eviscerated the legacy media, stabilised relations with Russia, dug out and dumped several of the key foundations of the next stage of globalisation. In a few short months he's achieved more than every president of the last 40 years combined. But I don't imagine you are approaching this from an operational standpoint, rather a political and partisan position. So this would explain why you are ascribing the track record of those who went before and those who thought they were next in line to a guy who has only been in office a week. The "choice" the people were handed was Trump or Clinton. That was supposed to be no choice at all and Clinton was supposed to sail through by a landslide endorsement and usher in the next round of globalisation. The very fact that hasn't happened should be enough in itself to have everyone cheering from the rooftops - whether they could give a shit about Trump or not. But instead we have this ongoing pining for a candidate who was so toxic she couldn't even land a shoo-in. A candidate so embedded with big business she might as well have been wearing their logos in neon. Oh, and a member of the celebrity Clinton tribe who along with the Bush's handed over America lock, stock and oil drum to a tiny fraction of its population and at the expense of the rest of that population. So here we are accusing Trump of doing that. After a week. And I'm the one with the credibility problem?


No dude. That doesn't wash either. In footballing terms, this is like watching you celebrate the appointment of Usmanov as the new manager Arsenal manager with Stan Kroenke as his deputy all because they've had the guts to fire Wenger. I've not been asleep since 2008. I've lived through it, debated and agreed with the points you've made about politics before Trump was elected but I think you've seriously lost site of what's going on. The constant deflections and criticism of the left as if none of us here were frustrated with the status quo and what's happened since 2008....I'm not really sure how to describe it. Dishonest, hypocritical....it speaks volumes. My last post should have been enough to show that I'm under no illusions about who is really running the show. Criticism of Trump doesn't mean I'm championing Hilary either. You need to stop that.

[Niall_Quinn]

No dude. That doesn't wash either. In footballing terms, this is like watching you celebrate the appointment of Usmanov as the new manager Arsenal manager with Stan Kroenke as his deputy all because they've had the guts to fire Wenger. I've not been asleep since 2008. I've lived through it, debated and agreed with the points you've made about politics before Trump was elected but I think you've seriously lost site of what's going on. The constant deflections and criticism of the left as if none of us here were frustrated with the status quo and what's happened since 2008....I'm not really sure how to describe it. Dishonest, hypocritical....it speaks volumes. My last post should have been enough to show that I'm under no illusions about who is really running the show. Criticism of Trump doesn't mean I'm championing Hilary either. You need to stop that.

You've said absolutely nothing there. I've been clear why I believe Trump's election is a very good thing. Your position seems to be entirely concerned with demonising Trump, so we're not even on the same playing field. I criticise the left as I have always criticised them but this time with extra gusto because their mask has been pulled away and we can see them for what they have always been, the exact opposite of what they profess to be. They are a dead force and I'm pretty happy about that, mainly because it gives a chance for a genuine liberal movement to emerge. Liberal, not neoliberal. Taking the piss out of melting down neoliberal flakes is just a bit of fun. But the recent highlights of Trump's presidency are very serious and you, the one who pretends that others are being evasive, carefully refuse to mention those. In a choice between Trump and Clinton my preference would be the total elimination of all government from the face of the earth. But that's not likely to happen soon so the best that can be hoped for is a bull rampaging through their china shop and that's exactly what we are getting. I'm satisfied all in all. You, on the other hand, say you don't favour Clinton then take every opportunity to throw rather lazy accusations straight out of the discredited legacy media onto Trump's shoulders. But don't seem to have anything beyond that to contribute, no position other than Trump is a loop. Or else you are keeping it to yourself. Anytime you want to let me know what I have lost sight of and what's really going on, feel free to just go ahead and tell me rather than dancing. We all know you can dance already.

[Power n Glory]

You've said absolutely nothing there. I've been clear why I believe Trump's election is a very good thing. Your position seems to be entirely concerned with demonising Trump, so we're not even on the same playing field.

I think you've misunderstood that post. Demonising Trump? No, no. This is more so a criticism of you and your position. How have you missed that?

I've hardly said much on Trump here today. He's only been in office for a week as you say. But so far, I think the American taxpayer will end up footing the bill for that wall since Mexico won't pay. I'm reading reports that say the Keystone pipeline deal will create 35 permanent jobs. Great! America First! ;) Power to him if he's able to create a better healthcare system that's free but not sure it's a good idea to repeal Affordable Care Act without something ready to replace it. For all you're blustering about war crimes and human right abuse, I'm surprised you haven't said more on this proposal to lift the ban on black sites.....his cabinet selection is a concern especially when I hear stories of his Labor Secretary wanting to replace workers with robots. :lol: But we'll see what happens. I'm surprised your in favour of this unholy marriage: politics/corporate, not saying there hasn't always been a relationship but actually allowing these guys to run a country.....dangerous territory.

[Xhaka Can’t]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl6xmB3MeU0

Watch the full interview. The guys a loop.

I'm just gonna agree wholeheartedly with you without watching.

No offence.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think you've misunderstood that post. Demonising Trump? No, no. This is more so a criticism of you and your position. How have you missed that?

I've hardly said much on Trump here today. He's only been in office for a week as you say. But so far, I think the American taxpayer will end up footing the bill for that wall since Mexico won't pay. I'm reading reports that say the Keystone pipeline deal will create 35 permanent jobs. Great! America First! ;) Power to him if he's able to create a better healthcare system that's free but not sure it's a good idea to repeal Affordable Care Act without something ready to replace it. For all you're blustering about war crimes and human right abuse, I'm surprised you haven't said more on this proposal to lift the ban on black sites.....his cabinet selection is a concern especially when I hear stories of his Labor Secretary wanting to replace workers with robots. :lol: But we'll see what happens. I'm surprised your in favour of this unholy marriage: politics/corporate, not saying there hasn't always been a relationship but actually allowing these guys to run a country.....dangerous territory.

Yeah I missed that. There was so little substance to go on.

I explained why I'm 100% behind 8 years for Trump and his gang. But you refuse to listen to that explanation, preferring instead to create a position for me. Very generous but keep it, I already have one. Also, there's no such thing as free healthcare, not anywhere in the world. Here in the UK we pay an absolute bloody fortune for healthcare, is that the "free" you mean? 35 jobs? So what? What's that got to do with cutting Saudi Arabia out of the equation within 5 years? The last lot couldn't do it because they were in the pockets of the environmentalcases. Ultimately an energy self sufficient US, no matter how deplorable their policies are, would be a good thing because it would likely keep their mercenaries at home more days in the year. And those Saudi savages might just get what's coming to them.

How are you approaching this? As some vague political exercise or as a person living in the UK, a state heavily influenced by the US? I couldn't give a shit about the former so maybe that's where the disconnect is happening.

[GP]

I'm just gonna agree wholeheartedly with you without watching.

No offence.

Low energy. Sad.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah I missed that. There was so little substance to go on.

I explained why I'm 100% behind 8 years for Trump and his gang. But you refuse to listen to that explanation, preferring instead to create a position for me. Very generous but keep it, I already have one. Also, there's no such thing as free healthcare, not anywhere in the world. Here in the UK we pay an absolute bloody fortune for healthcare, is that the "free" you mean? 35 jobs? So what? What's that got to do with cutting Saudi Arabia out of the equation within 5 years? The last lot couldn't do it because they were in the pockets of the environmentalcases. Ultimately an energy self sufficient US, no matter how deplorable their policies are, would be a good thing because it would likely keep their mercenaries at home more days in the year. And those Saudi savages might just get what's coming to them.

How are you approaching this? As some vague political exercise or as a person living in the UK, a state heavily influenced by the US? I couldn't give a shit about the former so maybe that's where the disconnect is happening.

Didn't you say you support Trump? :unsure: Regardless, it doesn't matter. I haven't created a position for you. Considering how long you've spoken out against the corruption of football because of guys like Stan and Usmanov, corporations like Sky, it's a surprise to hear you justify this and avoid topics you've vehemently spoken about over the years. I can't make sense of it.

[Marc Overmars]

January pay day. :bow:

Now 2017 really begins.

[Niall_Quinn]

Didn't you say you support Trump? :unsure: Regardless, it doesn't matter. I haven't created a position for you. Considering how long you've spoken out against the corruption of football because of guys like Stan and Usmanov, corporations like Sky, it's a surprise to hear you justify this and avoid topics you've vehemently spoken about over the years. I can't make sense of it.

Honestly though, what the hell? Do I support Trump and have a scarf and posters up and shit? Not really. My position, as it has always been, is I would like to see the total eradication without trace of all government, wherever it metastasises. By logical extension, I don't support any politician on any issue ever, I'm against them in all instances because the very presence of a politician implies the presence of government. Surely this is clear enough?

However, the majority of people on this planet, for a variety of reasons, prefer to have a group of privileged individuals with enhanced and extended rights dictate to them. I don't know why that is, fear, complacency, lack of personal responsibility, lack of imagination, contempt for the species, self loathing, there are a lot of possible reasons. I am a libertarian so therefore I cannot seek to impose my will on others. And if those others all want government then I guess we're stuck with a fucking government. That's the reality of it.

The condition of government and particularly in nations such as the UK and the US where it is oversized, wasteful, unrestrained by law or even common decency, unrepresentative, authoritarian, self obsessed, duplicitous in its constitution whereby multiple parties masquerade as opponents while pursuing the same agendas, warlike, concerned with operating a two tier system of privilege for the few and penalties for the many, extortionary, and so on, cannot be denied and yet this is precisely what happens. This is facilitated through a compliant and pro-establishment media that shovels repetitive propaganda while claiming to be delivering news. The education system has long since been infiltrated by similar propagandistic elements.

The message of the establishment is ceaseless, prevalent in every aspect of life and designed for the purpose of maintaining the power and privilege for the controlling minority, the political class, the bureaucratic and technocratic civil service, the paramilitary and military leadership, approved business leaders and the rest. It is possible to gain access to this elite group over time by accumulating wealth. That has become the sole driving force of the nation, acquisition of wealth. As such, our society is broken, in serious decline and the progression of our species has been halted and is going into reverse. This is why I naturally detest government and its fellow travellers, because it is anti-humanitarian at the core and being a human being myself it seems counterproductive to support the most prominent mechanism by which I am constrained. A bit like refusing to be buddies with your kidnapper, I suppose.

Now along comes a hand grenade called Donald Trump. It doesn't matter what baggage he brings with him. It doesn't matter if he's as bad as the rest of them. It doesn't matter if he's a racist, a misogynist, none of that matters. I mean if any of that's true then it's obviously not nice, but it doesn't matter because that's what politicians are. The most vile examples of the species. A bit like your Kroenke and Usmanov I suppose. How do you end up in their position in the first place? By being stand-up humanitarians? Highly doubtful. They are what they are. But in Trump's case it only matters that he's a metaphorical hand grenade and he's just been tossed right into the middle of the previously unsinkable establishment.

When I see a grenade being lobbed at the thing I despise most and would most like to see annihilated then sue me, but I'm happy about that and long may it continue. 4 more years! 4 more years! Because if we just keep on doing the same thing over and over, electing the same shitty politicians so they can represent the desires of their mates over the will of the majority, we're the ones who are going to end up having to deal with real grenades and real bombs and real bloodshed. That's how it always ends when these fuckers have sucked every last drop out of the working man, and we are very close to that point now. The elites know it too and guess what their solution is? Even our carefully edited history books will give you that answer easily enough.

As for the liberals, well that's just hilarious. The fact so many people could cry and tear their hair and clothes and make a spectacle of themselves is funny. Admit it, it's fucking funny. But it's serious too because it shows that it's not just politicians who have big mouths and zero conviction. Most of these "democracy" types are just as bad. When it's going their way and the nice, comfortable, let's chase cash society is chugging along with the "out of sight, out of mind" under class getting fucked in the arse so the educated can cross on the other side of the road on their way to Waitrose, these cunts just gush with joy about all the bounties democracy bestows. But send it the other way, when there's the slightest hint their little dystopian utopia might be remodelled (even slightly) then they are out on the streets punching, spitting, trampling, smashing, shooting cops in the head because, you know, black lives matter and love trumps hate - YOU FUCKING WHITE MALE!

Come on, they are funny. Admit it. And sad. You have to be so fucking sad, deranged, clueless to make Republicans and Tories seem reasonable, but these loons manage it with distinction.

Anyway, no I don't support Trump and yes, I'm delighted he was elected and I hope he stays there as long as possible because, for sure, by the time he leaves the whole face of western politics will have changed. Changed for the better, changed for the worse? Well where we were heading with that vicious little cunt Clinton was the end of the line and there's little chance a Trump administration can go lower. You could dig Saddam's corpse up and brush off the maggots, prop him up and call him president and he'd still do a better job than Clinton and we'd still be alive by the end of his reign. So if the establishment (very reluctantly, LOL) said it's Trump or that cunt over there, well there was never any choice to be made, not if you wanted your kids to grow up. But I understand why people don't get that because I guess they are still watching the "news". Good news there too. Trump wading into the media establishment with a sledgehammer, that's bonus material.

As for Stan and Jabba, well if Jabba wanted to get Wenger out then get him in. He doesn't though so what would change if he came in? Nothing. Best bet with these two is wait until they die of old age.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm just gonna agree wholeheartedly with you without watching.

No offence.

Good old YouTube, so much better now it dumps half its material for copyright infringements. Some kind of strange society where your leader's voice is copyrighted.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah I missed that. There was so little substance to go on.

I explained why I'm 100% behind 8 years for Trump and his gang. But you refuse to listen to that explanation, preferring instead to create a position for me. Very generous but keep it, I already have one. Also, there's no such thing as free healthcare, not anywhere in the world. Here in the UK we pay an absolute bloody fortune for healthcare, is that the "free" you mean? 35 jobs? So what? What's that got to do with cutting Saudi Arabia out of the equation within 5 years? The last lot couldn't do it because they were in the pockets of the environmentalcases. Ultimately an energy self sufficient US, no matter how deplorable their policies are, would be a good thing because it would likely keep their mercenaries at home more days in the year. And those Saudi savages might just get what's coming to them.

How are you approaching this? As some vague political exercise or as a person living in the UK, a state heavily influenced by the US? I couldn't give a shit about the former so maybe that's where the disconnect is happening.

You're right, it's not free. But if he can find a better system that helps cover more people, I'm not against that. But I didn't realise Obamacare was mainly funded by a tax on the top 1%, the most wealthy that earn over $200k -$250k and own stocks and bonds. Essentially, it's a tax break the most wealthy in the country and people are rooting for it. If the replacement proposed means more middle income families are hit with a tax, how is that good for the average American? It's gearing up to be a huge con. Just in the same way they were saying the oil pipeline will create thousands of jobs, the reality is that it will only create 35 permanent jobs. I've also read Trump could profit from the Dakota Access Pipeline which brings up the whole conflict of interest issue and Trump refusing to sell off his business empire. Is that not a concern for you?

As for Saudi Arabia, I just saw this morning that Trump's immigration ban doesn't include Saudi Arabia or Turkey even though the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia and aren't members of ISIS coming through Turkey?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ban-conflict-of-interest/

How Bloomberg have a draft proposal, I don't know, and guess is that he can't severe political ties with allies so easily, but it doesn't stop the conflict of interest issue popping up. And before you counter with the usual ‘but all politicians….’deflection, that still doesn’t make it ok. If we’re going to rip Cameron and MPs for the offshore funds and expenses scandal, I’d expect the same sort of scrutiny for Trump.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're right, it's not free. But if he can find a better system that helps cover more people, I'm not against that. But I didn't realise Obamacare was mainly funded by a tax on the top 1%, the most wealthy that earn over $200k -$250k and own stocks and bonds. Essentially, it's a tax break the most wealthy in the country and people are rooting for it. If the replacement proposed means more middle income families are hit with a tax, how is that good for the average American? It's gearing up to be a huge con. Just in the same way they were saying the oil pipeline will create thousands of jobs, the reality is that it will only create 35 permanent jobs. I've also read Trump could profit from the Dakota Access Pipeline which brings up the whole conflict of interest issue and Trump refusing to sell off his business empire. Is that not a concern for you?

As for Saudi Arabia, I just saw this morning that Trump's immigration ban doesn't include Saudi Arabia or Turkey even though the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia and aren't members of ISIS coming through Turkey?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ban-conflict-of-interest/

How Bloomberg have a draft proposal, I don't know, and guess is that he can't severe political ties with allies so easily, but it doesn't stop the conflict of interest issue popping up. And before you counter with the usual ‘but all politicians….’deflection, that still doesn’t make it ok. If we’re going to rip Cameron and MPs for the offshore funds and expenses scandal, I’d expect the same sort of scrutiny for Trump.

You didn't realise that because it's not true, it's just propaganda as usual. On the surface it might appear to be the case, but once you get down to the practicalities the reality is much different. The real funding came when the degenerate Obama gave a green light for rapacious insurance sharks and their partners in crime, the health industry (not profession, but industry), to structure their pricing and policies to effectively exclude the poor who were supposed to benefit the most. They did this by making the base policy costs cheap or free and then adding ludicrous co-payments and limits and drastically reducing choices. The upshot was the poor could now afford to have a healthcare plan but the could never afford to claim on it. And that policy was about to be extended to the middle classes with Obama passing the baton to the Clinton bitch as 50-100% rises were announced for the hard pressed earners who were the ones really supporting the poor. The rich, of course, never noticed because Obama was busy pushing their earning levels to new records in comparison to the average worker. Trillions handed out, the publicity stunt of an irrelevant tax pulled out - I'd take that deal any day. The devil is always in the details the demon has cooked up.

Good luck to the wealthy looking for a tax break. Tax should be abolished, it's a criminal offence after all. The wealthy will never pay tax, that's what successive "left" and "right" wing politicians have ensured for decades. Whatever they pay they get back in multiples in the form of corporate welfare which runs into the trillions. Or the socialises expenses, opportunity costs and damages that would normally affect the profit margins of private beneficiaries.

You keep on quoting the mainstream media take on these things as if it is real. It's isn't real, it's flimflam, misdirection, a sham, propaganda, nonsense. You have to dig to find the truth, it's never going to be dished up to you by those who have every interest in you never discovering it.

Like, as you say, the Saudis and the 11/9 terrorists. But nobody wants to go down that rabbit hole either. People will go far enough to make a point and then back off rapidly. As always I have called the Saudis out for being the animals and savages they are. I'd like to see their shitty little cesspit ostracised, blockaded and cut off from the civilised world and if that happened there would be 90% fewer terror incidents because the funding would dry up instantly. But yes, right now they literally have the world over a barrel so justice cannot be done. Which is why, in our fucked up world where we have made so many mistakes and made it impossible to put things right overnight, you approve drilling in Alaska and fracking in Colorado and so on. It's a shitty, shitty business run by retarded apes who just want the cash and don't give a damn. But you offset that against the vile Saudis and the horrendous impact that shit stain in the desert has had on all humanity and you swallow back down the puke and give the go-ahead for energy independence. There are no good choices left to make because government has been so stupendously corrupt and incompetent for so long they have literally broken everything. Now we only h ave broken solutions available.

[Power n Glory]

Honestly though, what the hell? Do I support Trump and have a scarf and posters up and shit? Not really. My position, as it has always been, is I would like to see the total eradication without trace of all government, wherever it metastasises. By logical extension, I don't support any politician on any issue ever, I'm against them in all instances because the very presence of a politician implies the presence of government. Surely this is clear enough?

However, the majority of people on this planet, for a variety of reasons, prefer to have a group of privileged individuals with enhanced and extended rights dictate to them. I don't know why that is, fear, complacency, lack of personal responsibility, lack of imagination, contempt for the species, self loathing, there are a lot of possible reasons. I am a libertarian so therefore I cannot seek to impose my will on others. And if those others all want government then I guess we're stuck with a fucking government. That's the reality of it.

The condition of government and particularly in nations such as the UK and the US where it is oversized, wasteful, unrestrained by law or even common decency, unrepresentative, authoritarian, self obsessed, duplicitous in its constitution whereby multiple parties masquerade as opponents while pursuing the same agendas, warlike, concerned with operating a two tier system of privilege for the few and penalties for the many, extortionary, and so on, cannot be denied and yet this is precisely what happens. This is facilitated through a compliant and pro-establishment media that shovels repetitive propaganda while claiming to be delivering news. The education system has long since been infiltrated by similar propagandistic elements.

The message of the establishment is ceaseless, prevalent in every aspect of life and designed for the purpose of maintaining the power and privilege for the controlling minority, the political class, the bureaucratic and technocratic civil service, the paramilitary and military leadership, approved business leaders and the rest. It is possible to gain access to this elite group over time by accumulating wealth. That has become the sole driving force of the nation, acquisition of wealth. As such, our society is broken, in serious decline and the progression of our species has been halted and is going into reverse. This is why I naturally detest government and its fellow travellers, because it is anti-humanitarian at the core and being a human being myself it seems counterproductive to support the most prominent mechanism by which I am constrained. A bit like refusing to be buddies with your kidnapper, I suppose.

Now along comes a hand grenade called Donald Trump. It doesn't matter what baggage he brings with him. It doesn't matter if he's as bad as the rest of them. It doesn't matter if he's a racist, a misogynist, none of that matters. I mean if any of that's true then it's obviously not nice, but it doesn't matter because that's what politicians are. The most vile examples of the species. A bit like your Kroenke and Usmanov I suppose. How do you end up in their position in the first place? By being stand-up humanitarians? Highly doubtful. They are what they are. But in Trump's case it only matters that he's a metaphorical hand grenade and he's just been tossed right into the middle of the previously unsinkable establishment.

When I see a grenade being lobbed at the thing I despise most and would most like to see annihilated then sue me, but I'm happy about that and long may it continue. 4 more years! 4 more years! Because if we just keep on doing the same thing over and over, electing the same shitty politicians so they can represent the desires of their mates over the will of the majority, we're the ones who are going to end up having to deal with real grenades and real bombs and real bloodshed. That's how it always ends when these fuckers have sucked every last drop out of the working man, and we are very close to that point now. The elites know it too and guess what their solution is? Even our carefully edited history books will give you that answer easily enough.

As for the liberals, well that's just hilarious. The fact so many people could cry and tear their hair and clothes and make a spectacle of themselves is funny. Admit it, it's fucking funny. But it's serious too because it shows that it's not just politicians who have big mouths and zero conviction. Most of these "democracy" types are just as bad. When it's going their way and the nice, comfortable, let's chase cash society is chugging along with the "out of sight, out of mind" under class getting fucked in the arse so the educated can cross on the other side of the road on their way to Waitrose, these cunts just gush with joy about all the bounties democracy bestows. But send it the other way, when there's the slightest hint their little dystopian utopia might be remodelled (even slightly) then they are out on the streets punching, spitting, trampling, smashing, shooting cops in the head because, you know, black lives matter and love trumps hate - YOU FUCKING WHITE MALE!

Come on, they are funny. Admit it. And sad. You have to be so fucking sad, deranged, clueless to make Republicans and Tories seem reasonable, but these loons manage it with distinction.

Anyway, no I don't support Trump and yes, I'm delighted he was elected and I hope he stays there as long as possible because, for sure, by the time he leaves the whole face of western politics will have changed. Changed for the better, changed for the worse? Well where we were heading with that vicious little cunt Clinton was the end of the line and there's little chance a Trump administration can go lower. You could dig Saddam's corpse up and brush off the maggots, prop him up and call him president and he'd still do a better job than Clinton and we'd still be alive by the end of his reign. So if the establishment (very reluctantly, LOL) said it's Trump or that cunt over there, well there was never any choice to be made, not if you wanted your kids to grow up. But I understand why people don't get that because I guess they are still watching the "news". Good news there too. Trump wading into the media establishment with a sledgehammer, that's bonus material.

As for Stan and Jabba, well if Jabba wanted to get Wenger out then get him in. He doesn't though so what would change if he came in? Nothing. Best bet with these two is wait until they die of old age.


I get where you coming from to a degree. That part seems clear.

But the above is where I disagree totally. For starters, who the heck are you hanging around with if you think most of the people pissed off are Waitrose shoppers? :lol: You seem disconnected. Who are you talking to on a daily basis to come up with such assumptions? Prior to Trump, people weren’t comfortable with their lives, democracy or seeing what was happening around them. Say what you want about ‘Liberals’ (I’m uncomfortable using such labels because it’s more complex than that, but I’ll play along) but they were out in numbers to protest the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars and weren’t swayed by the media with each lie about weapons of mass destruction. When the truth was finally revealed, it wasn’t just a ‘liberal leftie/student’ protest. People from all walks of life were pissed after realising they had been duped. The mistrust for government and media started to seep in.

2011 after the recession, we started to see protests worldwide against the unfair austerity policies that penalised the poorest and let the wealthy off lightly. Corporate tax breaks the richest companies, slap on the wrists for bringing down economies…it was business as usual and people were pissed. You must remember. Again, people from all walks of life. For once, it started to look like people were realising that they’re being fucked over by the most wealthy and nothing was being done about it by their own government. In the US, it’s sad to see Occupy Wall Street fading away so easily and people now fighting each other over race, gender and sexuality. This isn’t progress. It’s the biggest okie doke I’ve seen. It’s a change for the worse and if people tolerate this, we’ve ushered in a bigger problem. It’s a case of shooting the messenger, because the politicians are only there to serve men like Trump. The elites. The real establishment. That’s all they’ve been doing for decades.

Also, if you’re against any form of government, I don’t get why you’re against liberals protesting over Trump. As said, people were pissed under the Democrats and there is no way they can come and pull the same sort of bullshit they’ve pulled for years unless Trump makes such a pigs ear out of things, we end up in a better the devil you know type scenario. We’ll soon see. But as said, I fear we’re approaching the next stage of politics where people will be happy to hand the keys of power to billionaires like Elon Musk or Richard Branson. Examples of the left alternatives to Trump, but it’s dangerous territory and I think we’re a long long way from your vision of society without government.

[Power n Glory]

You didn't realise that because it's not true, it's just propaganda as usual. On the surface it might appear to be the case, but once you get down to the practicalities the reality is much different. The real funding came when the degenerate Obama gave a green light for rapacious insurance sharks and their partners in crime, the health industry (not profession, but industry), to structure their pricing and policies to effectively exclude the poor who were supposed to benefit the most. They did this by making the base policy costs cheap or free and then adding ludicrous co-payments and limits and drastically reducing choices. The upshot was the poor could now afford to have a healthcare plan but the could never afford to claim on it. And that policy was about to be extended to the middle classes with Obama passing the baton to the Clinton bitch as 50-100% rises were announced for the hard pressed earners who were the ones really supporting the poor. The rich, of course, never noticed because Obama was busy pushing their earning levels to new records in comparison to the average worker. Trillions handed out, the publicity stunt of an irrelevant tax pulled out - I'd take that deal any day. The devil is always in the details the demon has cooked up.

Good luck to the wealthy looking for a tax break. Tax should be abolished, it's a criminal offence after all. The wealthy will never pay tax, that's what successive "left" and "right" wing politicians have ensured for decades. Whatever they pay they get back in multiples in the form of corporate welfare which runs into the trillions. Or the socialises expenses, opportunity costs and damages that would normally affect the profit margins of private beneficiaries.

You keep on quoting the mainstream media take on these things as if it is real. It's isn't real, it's flimflam, misdirection, a sham, propaganda, nonsense. You have to dig to find the truth, it's never going to be dished up to you by those who have every interest in you never discovering it.

Like, as you say, the Saudis and the 11/9 terrorists. But nobody wants to go down that rabbit hole either. People will go far enough to make a point and then back off rapidly. As always I have called the Saudis out for being the animals and savages they are. I'd like to see their shitty little cesspit ostracised, blockaded and cut off from the civilised world and if that happened there would be 90% fewer terror incidents because the funding would dry up instantly. But yes, right now they literally have the world over a barrel so justice cannot be done. Which is why, in our fucked up world where we have made so many mistakes and made it impossible to put things right overnight, you approve drilling in Alaska and fracking in Colorado and so on. It's a shitty, shitty business run by retarded apes who just want the cash and don't give a damn. But you offset that against the vile Saudis and the horrendous impact that shit stain in the desert has had on all humanity and you swallow back down the puke and give the go-ahead for energy independence. There are no good choices left to make because government has been so stupendously corrupt and incompetent for so long they have literally broken everything. Now we only h ave broken solutions available.

The healthcare info isn't from mainstream media. I got that info from Global Capitalism January video, the guy you recommend to watch. What you're talking about is coverage of the policy and now how it's funded. It doesn't provide affordable healthcare for everyone and doesn't address the issue of pricing in the health industry.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Obviously i feel i need to do this now, Disclaimer - The following is not in anyway directed directly at P N G or the points he has made

There is massive hypocrisy on both sides, i agree with P'N'G that the term Liberal is a label that doesn't really sum up the depth of people's opinions. Plus the people who the word Liberal is attached to, are no such thing. There is a tendency amongst them to be very illiberal in the way they try and police discussion and use accusations of racism, misogyny etc to close down discussion. Plus a lot of them currently have placed social justice as the top priority and then wonder why the people who they claimed to represent have abandoned them for Trump/UKIP etc who are punished by economic disparity.

I won't go into why I find groups like Stop the War which headed up the Anti War marches in this country absolutely despicable and hypocritical as it's secondary

I would have thought greater pluralism rather than Nationalist demagogues would be the way to achieve NQ's aim of eliminating government, to get rid of the establishment is one thing (and no bad thing, establishments and elites will only look after their own interests primarily) but this seems to be replacing one establishment with an even more nascent one. Trump and the people behind Trump have absolutely no intention of handing any power back to ordinary people and as soon as those who voted for him realise that they will be just disregarded as "losers".

[Coca Kolo]

January pay day. :bow:

Now 2017 really begins.

This. What a glorious day.

[Letters]

Are you old CK? I thought you were dead :unsure:

[Coca Kolo]

Are you old CK? I thought you were dead :unsure:

Still alive.....

I'm back, not sure if that's a good or bad thing lol.

[Letters]

It's a good thing. This place needs new blood more than a black pudding factory.

Welcome back :tiphat:

How're you?

[Coca Kolo]

I'm good thanks.

It's been a remarkable few years since my death on the last forum. I graduated, got a job, work in the NGO sector and recently got married. It's been 6 years since I last posted, years have flown by. That said I do like a sneak peak of the forum and I thought I'd sign up again.

How are you?

[Niall_Quinn]

Six years?

Fuck, it's about time I got on with my life before it runs out. I'm off to get beer.

[Letters]

How are you?
I'm fine. Much to everyone's astonishment I also got married since we last spoke.
Not much else of note has changed though.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Much to everyone's astonishment I also got married since we last spoke.

It was to no-one's astonishment that you would do something stupid

[Letters]

I think people were astonished that any woman would though. With me I mean.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think people were astonished that any woman would though. With me I mean.

Don't be silly, plenty of women are frightened of being left on the shelf and dying alone

[Niall_Quinn]

I think people were astonished that any woman would though. With me I mean.

If you are lucky enough to find your match then all power to you and fair play.

If you are unlucky though, or rush into it, or don't think it through, Jesus fucking Christ...

[Niall_Quinn]

So anyway, I'm really fucking drunk now, I mean really drunk. Seroiusly fucking drunk to the extent my anal tendencies (spalled that right first time) don't want to make me go back and correct that spelling error in tendencies. That fucking drunk. Fucking squiggly red line. So what should I do?

I could either do a political thing to educate you motherfuckers. But after all this time it seems kind of pointless.

So music then.

Pause. Think about it. What do I want to listen to right now?

Did a serach on youtube for "music" and this is what the cut came up with. Enjoy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc6Vk77_1hs

[Niall_Quinn]

Well that was shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wow, clcicking on that shitty video change my whole home page. Fuck, what;s going on. Apparently I like Ed Sheerran. Who the fuck is he?

[Niall_Quinn]

Hangover....... hangover.....

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hangover....... hangover.....

What were you drinking ?

[Niall_Quinn]

What were you drinking ?

I can't remember at the end. Toilet cleaner probably. But bourbon to start with.

[Master Splinter]

John Hurt :(.

Fuck off 2016 2017.

[Letters]

2017 got off to a slow start but fair play to it, it's picking up speed now :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Loved John Hurt

I Claudius, Naked Civil Servant, Midnight Express, The Elephant Man etc

Without doubt one of my favourite actors of all time. I heard about his pancreatic cancer and I was a bit suspect when it was said he was in remission as that's not the type of Big C you get better from.

[Power n Glory]

What the fuck else are we going to wake up to? I really fear the day Trump has to handle a crisis. If you thought Bush was bad....

[Niall_Quinn]

Here's an opportunity to actually do something about the shit going down in this country.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/saving/article-4166954/Bank-building-society-branches-closing-UK.html

Please consider moving your banking to Nationwide. Punish these cunt banks who want your money but don't want to give anything in return for it. From sacking British workers and handing their jobs to Indians, through socialising the costs of doing business by dumping counter services on the Post Office, punish these shitty profiteers by switching to the one organisation that, despite being in the money changing business, still seems to have a passing regard for its customers. By the way, Nationwide will pay a £100 bounty to anyone who refers a new customer and also a £100 bonus to the new customer. So you can actually make money by doing the right thing.

Please advise your family and friends to do the same. And ask them to talk to their friends.

It is rare to have an opportunity to hit these bastards in the one place they give a shit about - profit. Don't waste the chance.

Yes, I have already practised what I am preaching. Come on. We can all collaborate to spread the word about some pointless bullshit from Strictly Come Baking, why not turn that nonsense grapevine into something useful?

[WMUG]

Already with them. Anyone fancy being referred? ##

[Niall_Quinn]

Already with them. Anyone fancy being referred? ##

Somebody take him up on the offer. It's a hundred notes in your pocket, a hundred notes in his. Money back from the banks for a change. And you get to dump a shitty bank that openly states it couldn't give a fuck about the customer.

[Letters]

Over 1.1m people and growing people signing the petition to deny Trump a State visit :lol:

[GP]

Excellent.

Of course, it won't achieve anything.

[Letters]

No, it won't. I did sign it knowing that but felt I should join the party as it takes so little effort (which is one of the problems with online polls of course).

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

On one hand I think the petition is pretty pathetic, every President barring George HW Bush (wasn't in office long enough) since Ronald Reagan has been afforded a state visit.

However Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama were all two years into their term before hand, the fact that we are getting Trump over so soon shows desperation on our part, that we are reliant on his administration for a favourable trade deal after Brexit.

Trump is doing in office what he promised to do and what people elected him to do, like with everything he does totally insubstantive flashy and for show, crass and gaudy like the monstrosities he builds......but there you go.

He has a mandate for these pointless side shows so what can you do. I think any protest is counter productive because it will just make the fat mendacious windbag even more popular.

[Power n Glory]

Should people stay silent? I think that's the biggest problem we have in society. The petition may not result in a ban on Trump's visit but it's something at least.

[Letters]

I don't believe this petition will achieve much but agree with PnG, are people supposed to just keep quiet while Trump does all this horrible stuff?
The countries he's banned people from have a combined total of 0 terrorist deaths in the US linked to them in the last 4 decades. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia - where 15 of the 19 9/11 attackers came from - is not on Trump's list.
"Co-incidentally", Trump has a lot of business interests there.

[Niall_Quinn]

Deny him a state visit - why?

Because the media has made up a bunch of shit about a "Muslim ban" and Mo Farah wet his knickers until he finally did a bit of reading and found out he wasn't banned at all? Or because some Tory cunt thinks he can't visit his kids he's schooling in the states with money stolen from British workers? Or because some silly cunt Iranian can't read? Because corporations have been incentivised with a jackboot not to continue shitting on American workers and all it cost was upsetting some drug lord Mexican junta?

These ignorant and lazy fools signing pointless petitions need to read a bit wider than the propaganda sheets too. The very first (VERY FIRST) politician in living memory who is actually doing what he openly stated he was going to do and what he was elected to do has 1.1 million arseholes protesting the bloke. Staggering. Shows how much they really appreciate democracy. It's all good when their guy is pulling the strings but suddenly democracy is a pain in the arse when the other guy gets in. And people wonder why I don't vote. LOL. Well look at you now - you champions of democracy. Lecture me again on how complacent I am to have thrown away my democratic rights and duties. Hypo... hypo-what was it? What's that word?

Now here's something to think about, you morons. Within hours of Trump's executive order the British government was on the phone seeking assurances for British citizens. And they got all the assurances they requested. And now 1.1 million arseholes want to shut that line down? Yeah, that's going to help a whole bunch. Look, I get you're butt hurt about the election result, but enough to blow up the UK's relations with the US? Seriously. Grow up now and stop this whining. Enough's enough. There is plenty of shit to protest in this country without having to look overseas, but I don't see anyone protesting. I see them queuing like dutiful slaves while their jobs are shipped abroad, their savings decimated, their pensions raided, inflation running riot and their wages stagnating. And not a fucking whimper. Where's our Trump? Oh yeah, he's the bloke that campaigned his whole life to get us out of the undemocratic EU. He's the bloke everyone laughs at because... well there was this bus with 300mill on it, or he's a racist, or he hates lesbians. Sound familiar? Carry on queuing, you're beyond all hope.

Here's the thing. Whether you like it or not there's a growing majority that is sick of the status quo and a bunch of corrupt fucks swapping power so they can feed corrupt banks the wealth of nations while starving the people with austerity measures - our own structural adjustment programs that were BOUND to land here after the out of sight and out of mind third world was mercilessly pillaged. People are sick of it. And just because there's a body of society that will cower and whimper no matter how hard they are whipped does not mean everyone is too fearful to stand up. So get used to big changes because they are coming and sitting there crying is not going to bring nanny rushing like it used to. Because nanny is done. Hard fact of life but there you go. If you can't see this happening in front of your eyes then you must be wilfully blind.

So sign your petitions and see what that does for you.

Meanwhile, I posted up a way for you to act right now and yet the silence that is apparently unacceptable in relation to something you can't control is precisely what I got back when I gave you something you can actually act on that will have a real and immediate impact. It just reconfirms my long held believe we live in an all talk and no trousers society.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OVnqerWUHg

[Niall_Quinn]

On one hand I think the petition is pretty pathetic, every President barring George HW Bush (wasn't in office long enough) since Ronald Reagan has been afforded a state visit.

However Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama were all two years into their term before hand, the fact that we are getting Trump over so soon shows desperation on our part, that we are reliant on his administration for a favourable trade deal after Brexit.

Trump is doing in office what he promised to do and what people elected him to do, like with everything he does totally insubstantive flashy and for show, crass and gaudy like the monstrosities he builds......but there you go.

He has a mandate for these pointless side shows so what can you do. I think any protest is counter productive because it will just make the fat mendacious windbag even more popular.

If the US and UK can quickly agree the framework for a trade agreement then the EU is done once and for all. Almost every single prediction of doom cast about by the desperate Europhiles has been exposed as absolute bullshit, but there's one key element to still be resolved - this notion that trade deals are impossible hard to get done for independent nations. If Trump and May (and don't get me wrong, sometimes you have to settle for what's the only option on offer) can land a deal then that's a bullet to the head of the EU and everyone will be racing for the exits. There's no desperation on the part of the US and the UK, all the desperation is on the European mainland. Brexit is shaping up to be a triumph and a long overdue and obvious one.

[Power n Glory]

Meanwhile, I posted up a way for you to act right now and yet the silence that is apparently unacceptable in relation to something you can't control is precisely what I got back when I gave you something you can actually act on that will have a real and immediate impact. It just reconfirms my long held believe we live in an all talk and no trousers society.

People find it hard to accept advise from hypercritical loudmouths. - Politics. ;)

[Niall_Quinn]

People find it hard to accept advise from hypercritical loudmouths. - Politics. ;)

You want me to queue quietly?

Meanwhile, guess the Tory:

'We have to question whether, in Britain, this is something that Britain should be doing for a man who has no respect for women, disdain for minorities, little value for LGBT communities, no compassion for the vulnerable and whose policies are rooted in divisive rhetoric,'

LOL. I almost admire the bitch for being able to say that with a straight face. A tory lecturing people on their lack of compassion for the vulnerable? We live in crazy times, for sure.

[Power n Glory]

You want me to queue quietly?

Meanwhile, guess the Tory:

'We have to question whether, in Britain, this is something that Britain should be doing for a man who has no respect for women, disdain for minorities, little value for LGBT communities, no compassion for the vulnerable and whose policies are rooted in divisive rhetoric,'

LOL. I almost admire the bitch for being able to say that with a straight face. A tory lecturing people on their lack of compassion for the vulnerable? We live in crazy times, for sure.

Consistency would be nice. Right now, you’re arguing for us to maintain a relationship with the U.S for trade benefits. Should people ignore a blatant case of discrimination and carry on as usual? Crazy times indeed. If you’re anti-government I would have thought any act of defiance is a good sign.

[Letters]

The very first (VERY FIRST) politician in living memory who is actually doing what he openly stated he was going to do and what he was elected to do has 1.1 million arseholes protesting the bloke. Staggering. Shows how much they really appreciate democracy.

:blink: You think democracy means that because a result goes a certain way that means the debate is over and those who didn't get the result they wanted should all shut up and keep quiet? A vote goes a certain way so that's the end of the debate? Utter balls.

And literally in the next paragraph you say there is plenty in this country to protest about. But we have a democratically elected government here so why should anyone protest anything they do? They won. Get over it. Stop whining, right?
Not that either our system or the US one is a proper democracy anyway, Trump didn't even win the popular vote. More people voted for Clinton than Trump and yet Trump gets to sign the executive orders, and you think there's no cause for protest?

Yes, he is doing what he said, but what he said was a load of racist, xenophobic bigotry so understandably people aren't happy.
It's not a Muslim ban but it's a ban on people coming in from specific countries. Those countries may well have been identified by a different administration but where are the stats to show that people from those countries actually pose a risk?

As for "inflation running riot", can you back that up with some figures?

People are sick of the status quo but is the answer really someone equally corrupt just because he happens not to have a history in politics? We have a corrupt business instead of a corrupt politician, whoop-de-doo.



It just reconfirms my long held believe we live in an all talk and no trousers society.

Says the man who posts on a messageboard no-one reads and does little else to change things...

[Niall_Quinn]

Consistency would be nice. Right now, you’re arguing for us to maintain a relationship with the U.S for trade benefits. Should people ignore a blatant case of discrimination and carry on as usual? Crazy times indeed. If you’re anti-government I would have thought any act of defiance is a good sign.

My consistency is impeccable. I don't believe you think widely enough, your thinking tends to be narrow and disconnected, based on my discussions with you at least. I want the trade deal because it destroys the EU. Once the EU is destroyed, 20+ nations are partially liberated and their governments will be forced to become more representative overnight. It depends which way you're walking. Europhiles (by default) want more government, bigger government, less representative government. I want the opposite, less, smaller, more. This is totally consistent with my viewpoint. It seems to me it's the left and centre liberals and "moderates" who are haveing a hard time with consistency, and indeed with democracy.

[Power n Glory]

My consistency is impeccable. I don't believe you think widely enough, your thinking tends to be narrow and disconnected, based on my discussions with you at least. I want the trade deal because it destroys the EU. Once the EU is destroyed, 20+ nations are partially liberated and their governments will be forced to become more representative overnight. It depends which way you're walking. Europhiles (by default) want more government, bigger government, less representative government. I want the opposite, less, smaller, more. This is totally consistent with my viewpoint. It seems to me it's the left and centre liberals and "moderates" who are haveing a hard time with consistency, and indeed with democracy.

I don't think widely enough? We're leaving the EU regardless of what happens with trade deals. Can we survive without the U.S trade deal? I’d like to think so. But regardless of the trade deal, what you’re suggesting is exactly why the U.S won’t severe ties with Saudi Arabia. You contradict yourself every time. On the one hand you say we should all take action against the immoral banking industry, recognise real racism when we’re out with the U.S waging war, but throw all those principles out the way just to maintain a trade deal we could probably survive without.

[Niall_Quinn]

:blink: You think democracy means that because a result goes a certain way that means the debate is over and those who didn't get the result they wanted should all shut up and keep quiet? A vote goes a certain way so that's the end of the debate? Utter balls.

And literally in the next paragraph you say there is plenty in this country to protest about. But we have a democratically elected government here so why should anyone protest anything they do? They won. Get over it. Stop whining, right?
Not that either our system or the US one is a proper democracy anyway, Trump didn't even win the popular vote. More people voted for Clinton than Trump and yet Trump gets to sign the executive orders, and you think there's no cause for protest?

Yes, he is doing what he said, but what he said was a load of racist, xenophobic bigotry so understandably people aren't happy.
It's not a Muslim ban but it's a ban on people coming in from specific countries. Those countries may well have been identified by a different administration but where are the stats to show that people from those countries actually pose a risk?

As for "inflation running riot", can you back that up with some figures?

People are sick of the status quo but is the answer really someone equally corrupt just because he happens not to have a history in politics? We have a corrupt business instead of a corrupt politician, whoop-de-doo.




Says the man who posts on a messageboard no-one reads and does little else to change things...

Where did I say you can't protest? Where did I say democracy means you can't protest?

But whining liberals aren't protesting, what you are doing is throwing your toys out of the pram. The people vote leave? So go ahead and protest the democratic outcome and attempt to derail it. There's not a peep coming out of the left about a post-Brexit environment, all they want is pre-Brexit grafted back. No ideas, not proposals, just protest over the result and attempts to have it reversed, either directly or by any practical means that can be unearthed. That's not protest - that's subversion of the democratic process so don't go trying to muddy the realities with your carefully staged framing that was never my position to begin with.

Of course I can protest what the government does. But am I screaming, NO, I want a re-vote, NOT MY GOVERNMENT! Am I shitting my pants, pissing in my knickers, bawling my eyes out and furiously clicking buttons on bullshit petitions? Nope. I'm encouraging people to move their money away from abusive banks, as a most recent example. That's too hard I guess. Better to click that mouse button fifty times more. Oh look, it's up to a million now! NOW can we have a different result?

What do you know about how the voter fraud (on both sides) panned out and who ended up winning that battle? You could use the links I gave you weeks ago and read up on how these things actually work. You didn't do that, did you? Anyway, no, it's highly debatable the warmonger witch won the popular vote once you tally up the fraud on both sides. And anyway, even if she did, what a fucking indictment for all the cunts who voted for an overt criminal. No grey areas there, and yet they all turned up and voted for her anyway. And now we have to listen to them whining on top of it all. JHC, fucking liberals eh?

Honestly. Racist, xenophobic, blah, blah - listen to yourself. Just because you scream racist doesn't make it so. Everyone who has stood against that cosy bunch of elites who held power for so long is branded a racist. Hell, they even branded Ron Paul a racist. That's how ridiculous these fuckers are, and here you are spouting their bullshit. Why?

You picked out inflation because you think you have a case there. You ignored the rest because you don't have a leg to stand on. And that's how you do it. Ignore the whole so you can try to knock down that whole by extension by focusing on one aspect you think you can refute. Well, inflation has been running riot for decades. It's extremely easy to see provided you don't listen to a corrupt treasury department rolling out their bullshit lies. Stagnant wages (for decades), rocketing home and energy costs, it's called inflation and it's smacking you in the face. And that's just consumer inflation, a ripple compared to the tidal wave currently dammed up in bankrupt bank ledgers and growing daily through the counterfeiting scam run out of the Bank of England. But whatever, if you think you're getting a good deal for your money then good for you. I guess you better pray the mortgage scam persists, you know, the one where prudent savers get robbed to pay for people who buy things they can't afford? Inflation sure is a bitch for the poor bastards who thought they were managing a tight ship. They should have splurged like the rest.

You. You and the people like you brought Trump to power and you'll do the same here in the UK before long. Your complacency, your acceptance of the status quo, your blind eye turned to every injustice, every obscenity, every atrocity. And I've spoken to you enough times now to know I'm not speculating here. Instead of whoop-de-do, why don't you go and find an honest bloke to represent you? Why don't you? Instead of accepting the shit that's rolled out in front of you every 5 years and then calling me complacent because I have enough self respect not to endorse the bastards? You kept voting these obnoxious cunts back in. You voted Tory last time didn't you, FFS! But everyone else is the racist, everyone else is the bigot, everyone else is at fault. Those damn, deplorable trash who finally said fuck this and blew the whole thing up. What did you expect? An eternity of the bullshit you kept voting for? The nice little centre ground where every evil was carefully airbrushed away and the richer got rich and the poor got poorer and the shockingly complacent class in the middle asked, what's in it for moi? Reap it, you sowed it.

How do you know what I do or don't do beyond the realm of this message-board? Or did you get that info from the Guardian? Fact is, as always, you don't know.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think widely enough? We're leaving the EU regardless of what happens with trade deals. Can we survive without the U.S trade deal? I’d like to think so. But regardless of the trade deal, what you’re suggesting is exactly why the U.S won’t severe ties with Saudi Arabia. You contradict yourself every time. On the one hand you say we should all take action against the immoral banking industry, recognise real racism when we’re out with the U.S waging war, but throw all those principles out the way just to maintain a trade deal we could probably survive without.

Why don't you explain the Saudi situation to me then? So as I can be more consistent in my argument?

Go ahead.

[Power n Glory]

Why don't you explain the Saudi situation to me then? So as I can be more consistent in my argument?

Go ahead.

:rolleyes: Really?

The Saudi's and U.S are allies and trade partners. It's the reason why the U.S say nothing about their links to terrorism or poor human rights record. No such ban for them under Trump.

[GP]

This thread is sponsored by Infowars.

[Letters]

Where did I say you can't protest? Where did I say democracy means you can't protest?.

Here:


The very first (VERY FIRST) politician in living memory who is actually doing what he openly stated he was going to do and what he was elected to do has 1.1 million arseholes protesting the bloke. Staggering. Shows how much they really appreciate democracy.

Anyway...


Just because you scream racist doesn't make it so.

Says the man who endlessly spouts things with no backup up at all. I hope you appreciate the irony there.


You picked out inflation because you think you have a case there. You ignored the rest because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Well no, I replied to the rest of your post too. But anyway...I do have a case because I looked up the figures.


Well, inflation has been running riot for decades. It's extremely easy to see provided you don't listen to a corrupt treasury department rolling out their bullshit lies.

Ah, I see. So long as you don't look at the way inflation is measured or look at figures then inflation is running riot. Fair enough.
It is much easier if you ignore the facts I suppose. Again, you've just spouted a load of things with no facts to back them up as if screaming it makes it so. Kinda understanding what you see in Trump now...


why don't you go and find an honest bloke to represent you? Why don't you?

How would that work?


How do you know what I do or don't do beyond the realm of this message-board?

I've asked you enough times what you do and never got a clear answer so I suspect you do nothing other than rant on here.
What else do you do then? I look forward to another vague answer which doesn't really say anything...

[Niall_Quinn]

Here:



Anyway...



Says the man who endlessly spouts things with no backup up at all. I hope you appreciate the irony there.



Well no, I replied to the rest of your post too. But anyway...I do have a case because I looked up the figures.



Ah, I see. So long as you don't look at the way inflation is measured or look at figures then inflation is running riot. Fair enough.
It is much easier if you ignore the facts I suppose. Again, you've just spouted a load of things with no facts to back them up as if screaming it makes it so. Kinda understanding what you see in Trump now...



How would that work?



I've asked you enough times what you do and never got a clear answer so I suspect you do nothing other than rant on here.
What else do you do then? I look forward to another vague answer which doesn't really say anything...

My answers are only "vague" because that little switch in your brain triggers every time it detects unapproved information. Like I said, you made Trump, you and your kind, so quit whining about it.

[Niall_Quinn]

:rolleyes: Really?

The Saudi's and U.S are allies and trade partners. It's the reason why the U.S say nothing about their links to terrorism or poor human rights record. No such ban for them under Trump.

Yes really. There's a reason for that trade and military relationship. Do you actually know what it is or do you only do cute comebacks that imply you know?

[Letters]

What else do you do then?
In your own time... :)

[Power n Glory]

Yes really. There's a reason for that trade and military relationship. Do you actually know what it is or do you only do cute comebacks that imply you know?

Oil and security in the Middle East from what I know.

Mate! :lol: The reason they are allies is irrelevant. The key point is that the relationship is upheld because it suits political and financial interests of the U.S. So you should see the contradiction in what you're now saying.

[Niall_Quinn]

In your own time... :)

Lightweight. You skip 99% of the substance of an argument and then come back with the most trivial point and tap your foot impatiently?

But let's say the assumption you plucked right out of your arse is correct. If I did NOTHING at all, I'd still be doing far less damage than a compliant toad such as yourself. As I already explained above. The bit you steered well clear of.

Oh no shit. Wait! I'm wrong about you. You signed that online petition, didn't you? Well fair dues, you won this round.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oil and security in the Middle East from what I know.

Mate! :lol: The reason they are allies is irrelevant. The key point is that the relationship is upheld because it suits political and financial interests of the U.S. So you should see the contradiction in what you're now saying.

The Petrodollar. If that goes down the America goes down and America won't go down without shooting off everything it's got.

There is no contradiction in what I am saying. I hate the Saudis, I think they are animals, not even human. But, I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that we don't want a nuclear war or a total and final financial collapse? If we agree on that much then we are forced to agree, whether we like it or not, that the US and Saudis must remain aligned at this point in time. Because the continuance of the Petrodollar rests on them, that's how fucking stupid successive US regimes have been. And if China decides to participate in any sort of attack on the Petrodollar, maybe under the disguise of reluctantly protecting its own contracting and probably collapsing economy, then that will be that. So it would be insanely dangerous to provoke that situation right now. If and when the US does secure energy self sufficiency then that's going to be even more dangerous but this is where your criticism finds an answer. Deprived of an option to just blow everything up, how can the Saudis be cut out of the picture? How can they be marginalised, ostracised and sanctioned like the bastards should have been, in any just world, years ago? We don't live in a just world but we want to carry on living. I hope whoever is pulling Trump's strings knows the answer because the other lot sure as hell didn't have a clue.

[Niall_Quinn]

Personally I'd give them a taste of their own medicine and covertly fund the overthrow of that shitty crackpot monarchy. Or get the Israelis to do it. Or even better, the Russians. But that might upset the liberals because they seem to have a real problem pointing the finger at one of Hilary's major allies and funders.

[Power n Glory]

The Petrodollar. If that goes down the America goes down and America won't go down without shooting off everything it's got.

There is no contradiction in what I am saying. I hate the Saudis, I think they are animals, not even human. But, I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that we don't want a nuclear war or a total and final financial collapse? If we agree on that much then we are forced to agree, whether we like it or not, that the US and Saudis must remain aligned at this point in time. Because the continuance of the Petrodollar rests on them, that's how fucking stupid successive US regimes have been. And if China decides to participate in any sort of attack on the Petrodollar, maybe under the disguise of reluctantly protecting its own contracting and probably collapsing economy, then that will be that. So it would be insanely dangerous to provoke that situation right now. If and when the US does secure energy self sufficiency then that's going to be even more dangerous but this is where your criticism finds an answer. Deprived of an option to just blow everything up, how can the Saudis be cut out of the picture? How can they be marginalised, ostracised and sanctioned like the bastards should have been, in any just world, years ago? We don't live in a just world but we want to carry on living. I hope whoever is pulling Trump's strings knows the answer because the other lot sure as hell didn't have a clue.

Aren't the American's trying to wean themselves off Saudi oil with the Keystone pipeline from Canada and the Dakota pipeline? Isn't that what Trump just approved? Also, why back out of the agreement with Iran and sour relations if it means the US can get oil from the Saudi's rivals? Isn't that how the Saudi's are cut out the picture?

Either way, whatever the purpose for not severing diplomatic ties with the Saudi's, you're presenting an argument to maintain the status quo in order to keep the peace and economic stability. Isn't that a similar argument many have posed when talking about Brexit and staying part of the EU? The people for it aren't in favour of bigger governments that can't be held accountable, it's just a complex mess nobody has a clear solution for. But saying that, it doesn't mean people aren't pissed off with the injustice and corruption seen. I still don't get why you box people into brackets so often and defend Trump's policies when defiance and protest is a good sign to show that people aren't falling for the okie doke. If we're having to topple governments and demonize a religious group for the sake of oil, isn't it time we found a cleaner and new energy source and have governments push for that instead of this other bullshit?

[Niall_Quinn]

Aren't the American's trying to wean themselves off Saudi oil with the Keystone pipeline from Canada and the Dakota pipeline? Isn't that what Trump just approved? Also, why back out of the agreement with Iran and sour relations if it means the US can get oil from the Saudi's rivals? Isn't that how the Saudi's are cut out the picture?

Either way, whatever the purpose for not severing diplomatic ties with the Saudi's, you're presenting an argument to maintain the status quo in order to keep the peace and economic stability. Isn't that a similar argument many have posed when talking about Brexit and staying part of the EU? The people for it aren't in favour of bigger governments that can't be held accountable, it's just a complex mess nobody has a clear solution for. But saying that, it doesn't mean people aren't pissed off with the injustice and corruption seen. I still don't get why you box people into brackets so often and defend Trump's policies when defiance and protest is a good sign to show that people aren't falling for the okie doke. If we're having to topple governments and demonize a religious group for the sake of oil, isn't it time we found a cleaner and new energy source and have governments push for that instead of this other bullshit?

What a disingenuous response that is. Nuclear war or the complete and final collapse of the global economy is what I said. A very far cry indeed from simply keeping the peace or maintaining economic stability. For the Americans it is a matter of survival and, unfortunately, their survival is a matter of survival for the rest of us by extension. This is miles removed from the Brexit and EU relationship. As we have already seen, the world did not come to an end when the British people liberated themselves from the EU bureaucrats and nor was it ever likely to despite the lies of the Remain campaign, particularly that quisling Osbourne and his now suddenly reformed and chastised mates at the Bank of England. The US has to find a way to liberate itself from even worse scumbags and the stakes are much higher. Think of the global housing bubble on an exponentially larger scale. Whole national economies are locked to the Petrodollar. Every major western bank. The US Treasury Dept. The City of London. Totally reliant. Almost the opposite to our reliance on a sinking Europe where we hold the whip hand.

As for defiance and protest, if people at least knew something about what they are protesting about that might help. There's no "Muslim ban." That just more legacy media fake news. So to be protesting vehemently on the back of pure fantasy seems to be a waste of time. What about protesting for fairer wages for UK workers? As I recall, the majority condemn strikers these days when they stand up for their rights. But give them a trigger issue and a fake news story and off they go, outraged. So incensed they sign a petition, damnit! A petition. And I already said, I don't support any of Trump's policies or any policy by any politician anywhere. I want them all gone forever. However, I do greatly enjoy and enthusiastically support the establishment splitting in two and fighting itself. Those divided are more prone to fall. This massive crack straight down the middle of establishment edifice is a long time coming but now it is here I hope it's permanent. My advice to those why genuinely want to oppose Trump - stop playing right into his hands at every turn.

[Power n Glory]

What a disingenuous response that is. Nuclear war or the complete and final collapse of the global economy is what I said. A very far cry indeed from simply keeping the peace or maintaining economic stability. For the Americans it is a matter of survival and, unfortunately, their survival is a matter of survival for the rest of us by extension. This is miles removed from the Brexit and EU relationship. As we have already seen, the world did not come to an end when the British people liberated themselves from the EU bureaucrats and nor was it ever likely to despite the lies of the Remain campaign, particularly that quisling Osbourne and his now suddenly reformed and chastised mates at the Bank of England. The US has to find a way to liberate itself from even worse scumbags and the stakes are much higher. Think of the global housing bubble on an exponentially larger scale. Whole national economies are locked to the Petrodollar. Every major western bank. The US Treasury Dept. The City of London. Totally reliant. Almost the opposite to our reliance on a sinking Europe where we hold the whip hand.

As for defiance and protest, if people at least knew something about what they are protesting about that might help. There's no "Muslim ban." That just more legacy media fake news. So to be protesting vehemently on the back of pure fantasy seems to be a waste of time. What about protesting for fairer wages for UK workers? As I recall, the majority condemn strikers these days when they stand up for their rights. But give them a trigger issue and a fake news story and off they go, outraged. So incensed they sign a petition, damnit! A petition. And I already said, I don't support any of Trump's policies or any policy by any politician anywhere. I want them all gone forever. However, I do greatly enjoy and enthusiastically support the establishment splitting in two and fighting itself. Those divided are more prone to fall. This massive crack straight down the middle of establishment edifice is a long time coming but now it is here I hope it's permanent. My advice to those why genuinely want to oppose Trump - stop playing right into his hands at every turn.

Bollocks! Disingenuous how? You're paranoia of a nuclear war is no different to those that believe the collapse of the EU will not only economically destabilize Europe but could also lead to war. We haven't left the EU yet and it hasn't collapsed. There are fears that a break up will result in another world war. Also, how are you not scaremongering with this nuclear war talk? How is that to come about if I've already pointed out the fact that America are looking outside of the Saudi Arabia for oil. How's nuclear war supposed to happen?

I can't even say much on the second paragraph. It sounds ignorant. You're deflecting and switching goal posts talking about UK workers. What has that got to do with anything? You do exactly the same when talking about verbal racial abuse dished out, so quick to lecture people on 'real racism' as seen with the Xhaka airport incident, but when people are actually protesting against something they violates human rights, blatant discrimination and racism, you've still got a problem with it. What the heck is your problem?

[Niall_Quinn]

Bollocks! Disingenuous how? You're paranoia of a nuclear war is no different to those that believe the collapse of the EU will not only economically destabilize Europe but could also lead to war. We haven't left the EU yet and it hasn't collapsed. There are fears that a break up will result in another world war. Also, how are you not scaremongering with this nuclear war talk? How is that to come about if I've already pointed out the fact that America are looking outside of the Saudi Arabia for oil. How's nuclear war supposed to happen?

I can't even say much on the second paragraph. It sounds ignorant. You're deflecting and switching goal posts talking about UK workers. What has that got to do with anything? You do exactly the same when talking about verbal racial abuse dished out, so quick to lecture people on 'real racism' as seen with the Xhaka airport incident, but when people are actually protesting against something they violates human rights, blatant discrimination and racism, you've still got a problem with it. What the heck is your problem?

Entirely disingenuous because instead of addressing the points I make you instead change the points or change the context and then answer your own fabrication. Disingenuous.

You obviously need to be reminded that the US has already gone to war, even in the face of global scorn and condemnation, to deter much smaller steps by nations such as Iraq to undermine the monopoly it enjoys in the oil markets. I'm not fear-mongering at all. That's another of your distortions. I didn't bring up the Saudis, you did. I gave you my views on the matter. Reject them if you want in favour of pretending the sinking of the crippled EU is somehow on a comparable level to the geopolitical war being gamed out by the US, China and Russia. If it makes you feel better, go ahead.

Meanwhile:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-king-salman-abdulaziz-al-saud-agree-safe-zones-syria-yemen-a7553341.html

Looks like Trump's administration will solve the immigration problem even quicker than it took Obama, Clinton and Co to create it. Did you hear the degenerate Obama today? He condemns Trump's discrimination against race and religion. The guy just can't stop lying.

So go on then. The "Muslim Ban"

Prove it. Go right ahead. Give me the details of this Muslim ban. And if you can't (and you won't be able to because it doesn't exist) then why don't you stop hyperventilating about non-existent issues and instead fight some real ones like, yes, workers rights in your own damn country. Or any other of the thousands of issues you could raise. You call reality a distraction from the issues. And I say, try reality instead. Do something useful. There's no Muslim Ban, because if there was then there would be no Muslims travelling to and from the US, which is clearly not the case. FAKE NEWS. Again. The legacy media never learns.

I don't have a problem, or at least I don't cause problems. You do. But voting for utter cunts and then crying when somebody else's utter cunt gets into power. That's what this has been about from the get-go, hidden under ever shifting sands of mock concern. Trump this, Trump that. I don't recall hearing a word from you about Obama and his 100,000 bombs. It's all just a bit too transparent, don't you think?

Anyway, that link I gave you is a huge story, EUGE! in case you are ever interested in such things. I don't think it has made the Guardian yet - they are still leading with fake news. If you actually give a shit about refugees then you'll appreciate real news and also appreciate why the Saudis, foul as they are, can't be kicked into the ditch if we genuinely want to find solutions. If it ever happens it will happen slowly, like diffusing a bomb because that's pretty much what it is.

I think that's five campaign pledges Trump has already started to deliver on. Maybe six? He also did that 1 up for 2 down legislative thing, which is a bloody good idea that should be adopted globally, if you ask me. More than Obama achieved in 8 years. I can see why this is tearing the liberals up. To be so brutally exposed and by a bloke like Donald Trump. The Black Messiah, just another in a long line of cheap frauds. And the whole fraud of solemn, suited and booted bullshit artists and deviants, bazooka'd by bulldozer Trump. It's hilarious. It's like the Wizard of Oz but not only has the curtain been pulled back but the Wizard is butt naked. All the illusions and delusions up in smoke. My, my, didn't we use to talk about our great democracy and our great leaders with such confidence and authority and boy, don't we look pretty stupid now.

[GP]

You need help.

[Niall_Quinn]

You need help.

Aristotle pipes up. What an honour.

[Power n Glory]

Entirely disingenuous because instead of addressing the points I make you instead change the points or change the context and then answer your own fabrication. Disingenuous.

You obviously need to be reminded that the US has already gone to war, even in the face of global scorn and condemnation, to deter much smaller steps by nations such as Iraq to undermine the monopoly it enjoys in the oil markets. I'm not fear-mongering at all. That's another of your distortions. I didn't bring up the Saudis, you did. I gave you my views on the matter. Reject them if you want in favour of pretending the sinking of the crippled EU is somehow on a comparable level to the geopolitical war being gamed out by the US, China and Russia. If it makes you feel better, go ahead.

Meanwhile:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-king-salman-abdulaziz-al-saud-agree-safe-zones-syria-yemen-a7553341.html

Looks like Trump's administration will solve the immigration problem even quicker than it took Obama, Clinton and Co to create it. Did you hear the degenerate Obama today? He condemns Trump's discrimination against race and religion. The guy just can't stop lying.

So go on then. The "Muslim Ban"

Prove it. Go right ahead. Give me the details of this Muslim ban. And if you can't (and you won't be able to because it doesn't exist) then why don't you stop hyperventilating about non-existent issues and instead fight some real ones like, yes, workers rights in your own damn country. Or any other of the thousands of issues you could raise. You call reality a distraction from the issues. And I say, try reality instead. Do something useful. There's no Muslim Ban, because if there was then there would be no Muslims travelling to and from the US, which is clearly not the case. FAKE NEWS. Again. The legacy media never learns.

I don't have a problem, or at least I don't cause problems. You do. But voting for utter cunts and then crying when somebody else's utter cunt gets into power. That's what this has been about from the get-go, hidden under ever shifting sands of mock concern. Trump this, Trump that. I don't recall hearing a word from you about Obama and his 100,000 bombs. It's all just a bit too transparent, don't you think?

Anyway, that link I gave you is a huge story, EUGE! in case you are ever interested in such things. I don't think it has made the Guardian yet - they are still leading with fake news. If you actually give a shit about refugees then you'll appreciate real news and also appreciate why the Saudis, foul as they are, can't be kicked into the ditch if we genuinely want to find solutions. If it ever happens it will happen slowly, like diffusing a bomb because that's pretty much what it is.

I think that's five campaign pledges Trump has already started to deliver on. Maybe six? He also did that 1 up for 2 down legislative thing, which is a bloody good idea that should be adopted globally, if you ask me. More than Obama achieved in 8 years. I can see why this is tearing the liberals up. To be so brutally exposed and by a bloke like Donald Trump. The Black Messiah, just another in a long line of cheap frauds. And the whole fraud of solemn, suited and booted bullshit artists and deviants, bazooka'd by bulldozer Trump. It's hilarious. It's like the Wizard of Oz but not only has the curtain been pulled back but the Wizard is butt naked. All the illusions and delusions up in smoke. My, my, didn't we use to talk about our great democracy and our great leaders with such confidence and authority and boy, don't we look pretty stupid now.

Are you finished or are you done? <_<

Talk about a mini meltdown. Disingenuous how? I've addressed the points and you clearly haven't. Me being able to recall previous arguments you've made about liberals, democracy and how you've linked in Brexit with Trump as some sort of movement where people are starting to wake up is hardly me switching goal posts. I'm not narrow minded and this whole discussion started because I've kept on saying you're inconsistent and a hypocrite. I've got a good memory.


You obviously need to be reminded that the US has already gone to war, even in the face of global scorn and condemnation, to deter much smaller steps by nations such as Iraq to undermine the monopoly it enjoys in the oil markets. I'm not fear-mongering at all.

Weren't you arguing some months back that Trump's victory would avert a head on collision with the Russians and war? So why are you now reverting to scare tactics when you've previously said he'd avoid war? Also, I've already said the US are trying to wean themselves off Saudi oil with these pipeline deals. So what exactly do they need the Saudi's? Why would Trump tear up a deal and sabotage relations with Iran when they're finally opening up their oil fields to foreign markets? You're arguments make no sense.

It gets worse because you're actually making an argument for supporting the status quo and relations with Saudi Arabia. It goes against the principles you claim to stand on.I get the fact that it's the lesser of two evils when we've had previous arguments about why we should remain in the EU or why Trump was a bad choice compared to Hilary, you weren't hearing that argument. It was insult after insult, especially when people were talking about fears of war and the economy collapsing.



I don't have a problem, or at least I don't cause problems. You do. But voting for utter cunts and then crying when somebody else's utter cunt gets into power. That's what this has been about from the get-go, hidden under ever shifting sands of mock concern. Trump this, Trump that. I don't recall hearing a word from you about Obama and his 100,000 bombs. It's all just a bit too transparent, don't you think?

I don't often comment in this section. I'm usually in the Arsenal debate section and I've only just started posting here after Brexit so you don't know my political views. We'd often cross paths when in the Arsenal debate section and agree on certain points about the owners, Wenger and the direction of the game, but it's only until venturing into this section have I realised how lost you are. You're not consistent. You sound like you're off your fucking rocker to tell you the truth and you need help. And since when did you start spouting 'FAKE NEWS' like Donald Trump? :unsure:

[GP]

Aristotle pipes up. What an honour.

What makes you think I was talking to you?

Add narcissistic to the list.

[Niall_Quinn]

Are you finished or are you done? <_<

Talk about a mini meltdown. Disingenuous how? I've addressed the points and you clearly haven't. Me being able to recall previous arguments you've made about liberals, democracy and how you've linked in Brexit with Trump as some sort of movement where people are starting to wake up is hardly me switching goal posts. I'm not narrow minded and this whole discussion started because I've kept on saying you're inconsistent and a hypocrite. I've got a good memory.



Weren't you arguing some months back that Trump's victory would avert a head on collision with the Russians and war? So why are you now reverting to scare tactics when you've previously said he'd avoid war? Also, I've already said the US are trying to wean themselves off Saudi oil with these pipeline deals. So what exactly do they need the Saudi's? Why would Trump tear up a deal and sabotage relations with Iran when they're finally opening up their oil fields to foreign markets? You're arguments make no sense.

It gets worse because you're actually making an argument for supporting the status quo and relations with Saudi Arabia. It goes against the principles you claim to stand on.I get the fact that it's the lesser of two evils when we've had previous arguments about why we should remain in the EU or why Trump was a bad choice compared to Hilary, you weren't hearing that argument. It was insult after insult, especially when people were talking about fears of war and the economy collapsing.



I don't often comment in this section. I'm usually in the Arsenal debate section and I've only just started posting here after Brexit so you don't know my political views. We'd often cross paths when in the Arsenal debate section and agree on certain points about the owners, Wenger and the direction of the game, but it's only until venturing into this section have I realised how lost you are. You're not consistent. You sound like you're off your fucking rocker to tell you the truth and you need help. And since when did you start spouting 'FAKE NEWS' like Donald Trump? :unsure:

You need help, you need help... Good argument.

Straight back into your hackneyed tricks without missing a step. Ignore what I said, create your version of what I said. Dispute it. Call the other person a loon or a loop or whatever. Add a little smilie as a wink to an audience that, guess what, isn't reading any of this shit. I hope you knew that and haven't been wasting all your cutiepie moves under false expectations.

Trump did this, Trump did that. Trump's been in office two weeks. All the hair pulling. Obama, 8 years. You must have missed it. Thousands dead, refugees all over the shop, 2 more nations shattered, worse then even Bush but it's Trump, noooooo Trump, my knickers are soaked and all because of Donald Trump.

Like you say, this is all about MY hypocrisy. My lack of consistency. No really. I told you why I'm loving every minute of the Trump presidency so far. Spelled it out and underlined it. But you can't tell me a damn thing about anything. You just seem to know that some other dickhead is somehow more unsuitable than Trump - you know, the "good" candidate the "sane" people voted for. What's the next move? Trump out and vote in another one of those cunts? Because I don't hear a single thing coming out of your mouth that states your alternative. Did you vote last time around? I can safely say there's no blood on my hands.

I'm the loon because I believe there might be more to what goes on in this world than the shite an openly exposed media spoons out. You're a loon mate, says so in the Guardian. I must be a loon because I don't do what all the sane people do. Vote for utter cunts so I can get an extra few quid regardless of the cost to any other fucker. Yeah sure, I know all about that sort of politics. I'm alright Jack. Labour today, Tories tomorrow, what have you done for me, me, me lately? Fact is, if you had any half decent name you'd have mentioned it by now because you'd have thought it through. I gave you the name of my guy. The only one I might have made an exception for, but I'm not a yank so even that was moot. Where's your name? Who's this grand alternative to Trump, somebody who isn't an utter cunt like all the ones everyone voted for before?

I'm answering you, it's not the other way around. I'm not posting here saying Trump's great, Trump's amazing. I'm posting in response to people who admit without an ounce of shame they voted for Cameron (and I don't mean you) but feel compelled to bring up Trump every day because, gee, he's such a bag of shit. The Christian dude, you know the one. Goes around with a huge plank in his eye. He thinks I'm a loon too btw. Guess I won't be going to heaven with him and his mate Cameron.

So no, this didn't start by you pointing out anything about me. It started out with you whinging about Trump - again. And stupid petitions because, you know, you can't be silent about these things. Says so in the Guardian. But it's fine to be silent about the other fella. That's approved. I already said. Too transparent and I may not know your politics inside out but you're giving out plenty of clues.

Not me supporting the status quo. Never has been, never will be. I'm not the cock turning up to a voting booth and endorsing shits like Cameron or, I can't even remember the other cunts name - the public school toff masquerading as a man of the people and somehow managing to pull it off, you know the one. Of course, if I was coming on here every day moaning about Trump, then I guess you could say I was pining for the status quo. But I leave that to others far more qualified.

[Niall_Quinn]

What makes you think I was talking to you?

Add narcissistic to the list.

That was already on the list, at the top, so fuck you.

[Power n Glory]

You need help, you need help... Good argument.

Straight back into your hackneyed tricks without missing a step. Ignore what I said, create your version of what I said. Dispute it. Call the other person a loon or a loop or whatever. Add a little smilie as a wink to an audience that, guess what, isn't reading any of this shit. I hope you knew that and haven't been wasting all your cutiepie moves under false expectations.

Trump did this, Trump did that. Trump's been in office two weeks. All the hair pulling. Obama, 8 years. You must have missed it. Thousands dead, refugees all over the shop, 2 more nations shattered, worse then even Bush but it's Trump, noooooo Trump, my knickers are soaked and all because of Donald Trump.

Like you say, this is all about MY hypocrisy. My lack of consistency. No really. I told you why I'm loving every minute of the Trump presidency so far. Spelled it out and underlined it. But you can't tell me a damn thing about anything. You just seem to know that some other dickhead is somehow more unsuitable than Trump - you know, the "good" candidate the "sane" people voted for. What's the next move? Trump out and vote in another one of those cunts? Because I don't hear a single thing coming out of your mouth that states your alternative. Did you vote last time around? I can safely say there's no blood on my hands.

I'm the loon because I believe there might be more to what goes on in this world than the shite an openly exposed media spoons out. You're a loon mate, says so in the Guardian. I must be a loon because I don't do what all the sane people do. Vote for utter cunts so I can get an extra few quid regardless of the cost to any other fucker. Yeah sure, I know all about that sort of politics. I'm alright Jack. Labour today, Tories tomorrow, what have you done for me, me, me lately? Fact is, if you had any half decent name you'd have mentioned it by now because you'd have thought it through. I gave you the name of my guy. The only one I might have made an exception for, but I'm not a yank so even that was moot. Where's your name? Who's this grand alternative to Trump, somebody who isn't an utter cunt like all the ones everyone voted for before?

I'm answering you, it's not the other way around. I'm not posting here saying Trump's great, Trump's amazing. I'm posting in response to people who admit without an ounce of shame they voted for Cameron (and I don't mean you) but feel compelled to bring up Trump every day because, gee, he's such a bag of shit. The Christian dude, you know the one. Goes around with a huge plank in his eye. He thinks I'm a loon too btw. Guess I won't be going to heaven with him and his mate Cameron.

So no, this didn't start by you pointing out anything about me. It started out with you whinging about Trump - again. And stupid petitions because, you know, you can't be silent about these things. Says so in the Guardian. But it's fine to be silent about the other fella. That's approved. I already said. Too transparent and I may not know your politics inside out but you're giving out plenty of clues.

Not me supporting the status quo. Never has been, never will be. I'm not the cock turning up to a voting booth and endorsing shits like Cameron or, I can't even remember the other cunts name - the public school toff masquerading as a man of the people and somehow managing to pull it off, you know the one. Of course, if I was coming on here every day moaning about Trump, then I guess you could say I was pining for the status quo. But I leave that to others far more qualified.

That's just a general rant and more deflection. You're still avoiding what I've said about the pipelines being built in Dakota and Canada along with Iran opening up it's oil fields. From what I read, the Saudi's aren't exporting as much oil as they used to, especially to the U.S. So you're going to have to be more clear on who the threat is in regards to nuclear war. So far it's been vague and I'm not convinced.

Now who's switching goal posts? I'm not here to discuss alternatives and the discussion never started out that way. I wasn't happy with the years Labour were in power and the alternative choices were pretty poor but that doesn't stop me from complaining.

But back on track, explain where this threat of war comes from if America have found an alternative source for oil? Also, didn't I tell you after the election that Trump would have a hard time stopping the war machine? When a few folks on here were talking about this guy having a access to nukes and fears of nuclear war, you laughed and threw the usual insults. Now look what you're attempting to shovel today. Please.

[Letters]

Lightweight. You skip 99% of the substance of an argument and then come back with the most trivial point and tap your foot impatiently?
Well, I suggested that all you do is rant on a messageboard which no-one reads while railing at others for not taking any action.
You asked how I know what you do or don't do. So fine, I gave you an opportunity to say what you do as I have done multiple times before.
And, as always, you change the subject, deflect the question, fail to give a straight answer.

Isn't there a phrase for that sort of thing? Ah yes, all mouth and no trousers.

:tiphat:

[Letters]

That's just a general rant and more deflection.
Have you not encountered NQ before?! :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Have you not encountered NQ before?! :lol:

:lol: Not really. This is an eye opener. I rarely talk politics on here and so it's a bit of surprise.

[GP]

https://i.redd.it/ol7ea42tl1dy.gif

[Power n Glory]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-puts-iran-on-notice-ballistic-missile-launch-donald-trump-national-security-adviser-mike-flynn-a7558181.html

Yeah, about that war mongering thing.... Should we be nervous?

[GP]

Of course we should, there's a narcissistic shitbag with his tiny finger on the button.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2017/01/30/iran-to-ditch-dollar/#1a3c8865676d

Iran to abandon the dollar in favour of Euro. Didn't Iraq do the same before being invaded? NQ explain what the heck is going on.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2017/01/30/iran-to-ditch-dollar/#1a3c8865676d

Iran to abandon the dollar in favour of Euro. Didn't Iraq do the same before being invaded? NQ explain what the heck is going on.

LOL. I was half way through a response to your other post a couple of days back and then life intervened. Mentioned all this and yes, Saddam did the same and paid the price. Old news with Iran, their bourse has been active for years now. China and Russia, Brazil, India have moved some of their trading away from the dollar. Can't and won't read Forbes because of their adblock policies, so don't know what they are saying there. But these moves were primarily a backstop against the US inflating its own dollar and diminishing the dollar reserves of these oil trading nations. And with Iran I guess they are responding to the latest US/ Saudi provocations. Risky with the Euro though as they'll have to contend with it remaining undervalued which will impact their revenues. And if Trump goes ahead with his border taxes we'll be in the twilight zone position of even higher demand for the dollar despite the ever increasing supply. Just shows how modern economics is all about corruption and not much else. It's simple in the end, gangsters from all factions are rigging the system in as many ways as they know how to gain as much advantage as they can before the whole thing collapses. This is why the globalists want a one world currency, which in itself is not a terrible idea. It becomes a terrible idea when you realise the motive is control rather than stability. The whole thing is depressing. For us little guys we just have to wait to see which shitty end of which stick we have to pick up.

[Power n Glory]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/trump-approved-yemen-raid-five-days-after-inauguration


Questions mount over botched Yemen raid approved by Trump

Business as usual.

[Power n Glory]

LOL. I was half way through a response to your other post a couple of days back and then life intervened. Mentioned all this and yes, Saddam did the same and paid the price. Old news with Iran, their bourse has been active for years now. China and Russia, Brazil, India have moved some of their trading away from the dollar. Can't and won't read Forbes because of their adblock policies, so don't know what they are saying there. But these moves were primarily a backstop against the US inflating its own dollar and diminishing the dollar reserves of these oil trading nations. And with Iran I guess they are responding to the latest US/ Saudi provocations. Risky with the Euro though as they'll have to contend with it remaining undervalued which will impact their revenues. And if Trump goes ahead with his border taxes we'll be in the twilight zone position of even higher demand for the dollar despite the ever increasing supply. Just shows how modern economics is all about corruption and not much else. It's simple in the end, gangsters from all factions are rigging the system in as many ways as they know how to gain as much advantage as they can before the whole thing collapses. This is why the globalists want a one world currency, which in itself is not a terrible idea. It becomes a terrible idea when you realise the motive is control rather than stability. The whole thing is depressing. For us little guys we just have to wait to see which shitty end of which stick we have to pick up.

It was on the cards with Iran but I thought it was off the cards after the US and Iran reached that agreement over nuke development. It's suspect because Trump swore to tear up the agreement and is now making threats with Iran now threatening to switch to Euros. It's madness. I'll have to read into it more but from what I've seen, Iran are haven't violated anything. It was agreed they could test defence missiles. It goes back to what I was saying before that the war mongering won't stop under Trump. I suspect he has the Saudi's backing him. Messy.

[Letters]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-alternative-facts-brexit-bill-white-paper-european-union-a7558886.html

I know, I know. We lost, get over it!

I have no problem with the bill on Wednesday being passed by parliament, given the referendum result. What I do have a problem with is it being passed by a landslide. People like my ex-MP (we're not in his constituency now we've moved) who represents an area in which the majority voted to Remain. But he voted for the Government to trigger article 50 on Wednesday. Isn't he supposed to be representing the people in his constituency? Why is he voting against their wishes?

Farage said before the referendum that a 52-48 vote to Remain would be "unfinished business". That was the size of the vote to Leave and now it's "you lost, get over it".

In brief: Democracy is over-rated. There should be a test before you can vote. I used to say that jokingly but I'm increasingly serious about it. If you're going to Google "What is the EU" just after the polls are closed then you didn't deserve a vote...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-alternative-facts-brexit-bill-white-paper-european-union-a7558886.html

I know, I know. We lost, get over it!

I have no problem with the bill on Wednesday being passed by parliament, given the referendum result. What I do have a problem with is it being passed by a landslide. People like my ex-MP (we're not in his constituency now we've moved) who represents an area in which the majority voted to Remain. But he voted for the Government to trigger article 50 on Wednesday. Isn't he supposed to be representing the people in his constituency? Why is he voting against their wishes?

Farage said before the referendum that a 52-48 vote to Remain would be "unfinished business". That was the size of the vote to Leave and now it's "you lost, get over it".

In brief: Democracy is over-rated. There should be a test before you can vote. I used to say that jokingly but I'm increasingly serious about it. If you're going to Google "What is the EU" just after the polls are closed then you didn't deserve a vote...

If the referendum had been undertaken under first past the post it would have been a landslide, the vast majority of all parliamentary constituencies voted to leave and MPs are scared of the backlash from their constituents, which in one way is a good thing as usually MPs don't vote with their constituents in mind at all rather their own personal "principles", but parliament is a representative democracy and i don't think it's a particularly good idea to turn MPs into a plebiscite.

Corbyn issued a three line whip to his own party, now despite the fact that he clearly voted to Leave he's done that because he's got two by-elections coming up one in a heavily pro leave constituency (although paradoxically the majority of the Labour vote in that area would have been pro remain). To be fair with him he's in a no win situation, Harold Wilson would not have been able to breach this divide in the party over the EU and Jeremy is no Harold Wilson.

The fact that May took so long before confirming that we would not look to retain single market membership shows that she is not as control of the situation as she likes to pretend.

Labour and the Tories have been whipping the people in the nuts with a wet towel for years, and then they handed the same people a loaded gun and now they wonder why they are being held hostage by it.

[Letters]

Interesting about if the EU were FPTP. I found this and it seems you're right.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisapplegate/why-a-pro-eu-party-could-be-screwed-in-the-next-election?utm_term=.xiYX1xJK#.rqqVqwLp

Shows how crappy our 'democracy' is really.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-alternative-facts-brexit-bill-white-paper-european-union-a7558886.html

I know, I know. We lost, get over it!

I have no problem with the bill on Wednesday being passed by parliament, given the referendum result. What I do have a problem with is it being passed by a landslide. People like my ex-MP (we're not in his constituency now we've moved) who represents an area in which the majority voted to Remain. But he voted for the Government to trigger article 50 on Wednesday. Isn't he supposed to be representing the people in his constituency? Why is he voting against their wishes?

Farage said before the referendum that a 52-48 vote to Remain would be "unfinished business". That was the size of the vote to Leave and now it's "you lost, get over it".

In brief: Democracy is over-rated. There should be a test before you can vote. I used to say that jokingly but I'm increasingly serious about it. If you're going to Google "What is the EU" just after the polls are closed then you didn't deserve a vote...

This is why the vote in parliament was unnecessary and undemocratic. The people already voted and fuck the parliament and their made up and two tier laws, which are not genuine laws at all. If parliament was democratic then the result there should have mirrored the referendum result, at least roughly. As you say, the cunt politicians are supposed to be representing their constituencies and this is what I just don't get about people who waste their time voting whilst giving that critical endorsement to these bastards. Politicians represent their parties, not the people. Why the hell would you ever need a whip (the political kind, not the kind they have rent boys use on them) if the politicians were representing their constituents?

Now people will say wait, that's not how it works. We sent those politicians there to make decisions on our behalf. Well fine, but stop calling it representation and certainly stop calling it a democracy. What we really have is a selection process (where we select pre-selected candidates) once every 5 years. Then the cunts get to do what they want and ignore the people, and this is precisely what they do. There isn't even a hint of democracy within this system, it's all just words. And people even know this, they say it doesn't matter who you vote for because nothing ever changes. Almost true. Nothing ever changes for the better, but politicians are always working to make things worse.

The referendum was the first taste of democracy we've had in ages and the way it has upset people who plainly don't like democracy after all is pretty illustrative. These fuckers will tell you straight to your face, we can't leave these things up to the people in our "representative democracies", we have to decide what's best for them because it's all just too complicated for them to understand. Well yeah, if the other half of the parliamentarian mission is to lie and bathe in secrecy then sure, it's pretty fucking hard for the people to know what the fuck is going on. That's not the peoples' fault though, the lying politicians and their whore media are solely responsible.

So the democracy thing? Doesn't exist. Make-believe. Stuff that people can tell themselves.

The only way we'll ever get genuine democracy is if we cut the politicians out of the process. Parliament is the barrier to democracy, and a barrier to every form of equality and justice. People need to stop endorsing that shit if they want to make some progress. And no, it wouldn't be instant chaos if these self-serving scumbags were booted out. There have been plenty of instances of governments being disbanded for long periods of time while they argued who was in charge and who got to sit in the big seats. Hardly anybody fucking noticed they were gone, except the media, their whores. People just got on with their lives because the reality is government is just a giant leech attached to your back and when that leech falls off live actually becomes a hell of a lot easier.

But there would be no police and gangs would roam the streets and kill people! No. To all intents and purposes there are no police now, not for YOU anyway. A gang could roam down your street today and the police wouldn't do a damn thing about it. Their job is now almost entirely concerned with running a protection racket. Dishing fines and protecting business, that's what they do. You get burgled and they won't even show up. They admit it. Government doesn't bring you security, it steals your money so you can't afford hire a security firm to provide you with real rather than imaginary protection. Everything about government is an illusion, albeit a bloody expensive one.

Get rid.

[GP]

People like my ex-MP (we're not in his constituency now we've moved) who represents an area in which the majority voted to Remain. But he voted for the Government to trigger article 50 on Wednesday. Isn't he supposed to be representing the people in his constituency? Why is he voting against their wishes?

My MP was a Remain campaigner, in a Remain constituency, yet voted to trigger article 50.

So he's not only voted against his constituents wishes, but his own as well.

All I hear these days is "the Will of the People"

Let me ask you this, what happened to the will of the people when they screwed us over Boaty McBoatface?

#JeSuisBoaty

[Niall_Quinn]

Interesting about if the EU were FPTP. I found this and it seems you're right.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisapplegate/why-a-pro-eu-party-could-be-screwed-in-the-next-election?utm_term=.xiYX1xJK#.rqqVqwLp

Shows how crappy our 'democracy' is really.

Another reason to get rid of parliament and devolve to the smallest practical administrative unit (assuming people aren't yet ready to govern themselves). Now extend these rigged outcomes across the whole of Europe and it's a clear demonstration of why the EU is just a terrible idea. Whichever way you cut it, pure democracy or a system based on regions or constituencies, around 200 million people are going to end up with something they don't want and never asked for. How can that be a good way to organise society? Smaller is always better when it comes to governance. Big is terrible in every respect and authoritarian by default. And to think the establishment ultimately wants a one world government, the most unrepresentative and authoritarian outcome imaginable. They make no secret of it. That's why the fight against the EU is so important. It kicks out one of their stepping stones and makes it harder for them to reach their ultimate prize. Ending up with a shitty and unrepresentative national government might not be a great prize for us, the people, but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative and it gives us better odds in the next fight.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This is why the vote in parliament was unnecessary and undemocratic. The people already voted and fuck the parliament and their made up and two tier laws, which are not genuine laws at all. If parliament was democratic then the result there should have mirrored the referendum result, at least roughly. As you say, the cunt politicians are supposed to be representing their constituencies and this is what I just don't get about people who waste their time voting whilst giving that critical endorsement to these bastards. Politicians represent their parties, not the people. Why the hell would you ever need a whip (the political kind, not the kind they have rent boys use on them) if the politicians were representing their constituents?

Now people will say wait, that's not how it works. We sent those politicians there to make decisions on our behalf. Well fine, but stop calling it representation and certainly stop calling it a democracy. What we really have is a selection process (where we select pre-selected candidates) once every 5 years. Then the cunts get to do what they want and ignore the people, and this is precisely what they do. There isn't even a hint of democracy within this system, it's all just words. And people even know this, they say it doesn't matter who you vote for because nothing ever changes. Almost true. Nothing ever changes for the better, but politicians are always working to make things worse.

The referendum was the first taste of democracy we've had in ages and the way it has upset people who plainly don't like democracy after all is pretty illustrative. These fuckers will tell you straight to your face, we can't leave these things up to the people in our "representative democracies", we have to decide what's best for them because it's all just too complicated for them to understand. Well yeah, if the other half of the parliamentarian mission is to lie and bathe in secrecy then sure, it's pretty fucking hard for the people to know what the fuck is going on. That's not the peoples' fault though, the lying politicians and their whore media are solely responsible.

So the democracy thing? Doesn't exist. Make-believe. Stuff that people can tell themselves.

The only way we'll ever get genuine democracy is if we cut the politicians out of the process. Parliament is the barrier to democracy, and a barrier to every form of equality and justice. People need to stop endorsing that shit if they want to make some progress. And no, it wouldn't be instant chaos if these self-serving scumbags were booted out. There have been plenty of instances of governments being disbanded for long periods of time while they argued who was in charge and who got to sit in the big seats. Hardly anybody fucking noticed they were gone, except the media, their whores. People just got on with their lives because the reality is government is just a giant leech attached to your back and when that leech falls off live actually becomes a hell of a lot easier.

But there would be no police and gangs would roam the streets and kill people! No. To all intents and purposes there are no police now, not for YOU anyway. A gang could roam down your street today and the police wouldn't do a damn thing about it. Their job is now almost entirely concerned with running a protection racket. Dishing fines and protecting business, that's what they do. You get burgled and they won't even show up. They admit it. Government doesn't bring you security, it steals your money so you can't afford hire a security firm to provide you with real rather than imaginary protection. Everything about government is an illusion, albeit a bloody expensive one.

Get rid.

The Bill wasn't about whether we would leave the EU or not, it was about whether to give this government carte blanche over how it handles the exit negotiations or not.

I don't remember a clause in the referendum paper that says Do you want to remain or want to leave and in doing so hand complete control over to this government to make decisions on your behalf without having it ratified by parliament (the way it would have to if it passed any legislation).

You rip the "legacy media" to shreds and yet it was this very same media that kicked up the fuss over this matter, it was the government that didn't want to play ball because it risked having to admit it had no ideas what it was going to do (not surprising given that Whitehall had no contingency in place in the event of Brexit).

Frankly i am often bemused with the Brexiter attitude in some quarters, surely they want this thing to work....if they are getting someone in to do building work do you tell them to do it as quick as possible and do a rush job or take their time and do it properly. It's almost like they don't care if it works or not, they just want the fringe benefits for themselves.

[Niall_Quinn]

My MP was a Remain campaigner, in a Remain constituency, yet voted to trigger article 50.

So he's not only voted against his constituents wishes, but his own as well.

All I hear these days is "the Will of the People"

Let me ask you this, what happened to the will of the people when they screwed us over Boaty McBoatface?

#JeSuisBoaty

If the people aren't willing to rise up over that outrage then they won't rise up under any circumstances. It's sad and we're doomed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If the people aren't willing to rise up over that outrage then they won't rise up under any circumstances. It's sad and we're doomed.

Yep i don't get how people with kids and a mortgage and worrying about paying the bills and looking after their sick parents don't take to the streets at such things when they are clearly the thin end of the wedge.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Bill wasn't about whether we would leave the EU or not, it was about whether to give this government carte blanche over how it handles the exit negotiations or not.

I don't remember a clause in the referendum paper that says Do you want to remain or want to leave and in doing so hand complete control over to this government to make decisions on your behalf without having it ratified by parliament (the way it would have to if it passed any legislation).

You rip the "legacy media" to shreds and yet it was this very same media that kicked up the fuss over this matter, it was the government that didn't want to play ball because it risked having to admit it had no ideas what it was going to do (not surprising given that Whitehall had no contingency in place in the event of Brexit).

Frankly i am often bemused with the Brexiter attitude in some quarters, surely they want this thing to work....if they are getting someone in to do building work do you tell them to do it as quick as possible and do a rush job or take their time and do it properly. It's almost like they don't care if it works or not, they just want the fringe benefits for themselves.

Come now, let's not play games. The vote was potentially a means by which to derail the process. Is there a suggestion in play that parliament won't continue to operate as normal, post-Brexit? New trade deals, immigration policies, the transfer of legislative powers, all of it - was it ever going to be the case it would not be business as usual and if true, where's any spoken or written evidence of that? Of course the parliament will be administering the exit from the EU and everything that comes afterwards. This is a given and requires no confirmation. Not that a confirmation or lack of it makes much difference because the Tories can do what they want anyway, who's going to stop them? So the vote's a sham from top to bottom. A device by Europhiles to try to at least delay if not overturn. They had no chance of success because contrary to all the bleating of these establishment and the media whores, the people themselves know full well what they voted for.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yep i don't get how people with kids and a mortgage and worrying about paying the bills and looking after their sick parents don't take to the streets at such things when they are clearly the thin end of the wedge.

Undiluted complacency.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Come now, let's not play games. The vote was potentially a means by which to derail the process. Is there a suggestion in play that parliament won't continue to operate as normal, post-Brexit? New trade deals, immigration policies, the transfer of legislative powers, all of it - was it ever going to be the case it would not be business as usual and if true, where's any spoken or written evidence of that? Of course the parliament will be administering the exit from the EU and everything that comes afterwards. This is a given and requires no confirmation. Not that a confirmation or lack of it makes much difference because the Tories can do what they want anyway, who's going to stop them? So the vote's a sham from top to bottom. A device by Europhiles to try to at least delay if not overturn. They had no chance of success because contrary to all the bleating of these establishment and the media whores, the people themselves know full well what they voted for.

If it was true the Tories could do what they want there would be no need for the Whip system and there would be no history of a majority government having a bill defeated.

"A device by Europhiles to try to at least delay if not overturn" - straight out of the mouth of the editorial of the Daily Express.

If the process is delayed so what? as i've said better it take longer and get it right. And as for overturning it, given that these MPs (probably a small majority of whom were in favour of remaining) voted overwhelmingly to back the triggering of Article 50 it suggests to me that it wouldn't wash even if they wished to do so.

I don't want Brexit to fail i live in this country what possible benefit would it be to me, you tend to lose the desire to fold your arms smugly and say i told you so when you are out of a job and the price of good has massively inflated. My reason for wanting to remain was far from ideological, yeah i think Nationalism is a lot of silly nonsense but if i genuinely felt we would be better off out i'd have voted Leave without hesitation.

I'm metaphorically in the waiting room, fearing the worst and hoping i'm wrong.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Undiluted complacency.

maybe they don't feel the boot on their face quite as palpably as you.

[Marc Overmars]

Is it weird that my mate has seemingly invited his soon to be father in law on his stag? :unsure:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Is it weird that my mate has seemingly invited his soon to be father in law on his stag? :unsure:

depends is his name Han Solo?

[LDG]

Is it weird that my mate has seemingly invited his soon to be father in law on his stag? :unsure:

It could get quite awkward when he's banging the stripper