"Currants Bw..."

[Niall_Quinn]

maybe they don't feel the boat on their face quite as palpably as you.

Fixed it for you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Fixed it for you.

Ha

[Niall_Quinn]

If it was true the Tories could do what they want there would be no need for the Whip system and there would be no history of a majority government having a bill defeated.

"A device by Europhiles to try to at least delay if not overturn" - straight out of the mouth of the editorial of the Daily Express.

If the process is delayed so what? as i've said better it take longer and get it right. And as for overturning it, given that these MPs (probably a small majority of whom were in favour of remaining) voted overwhelmingly to back the triggering of Article 50 it suggests to me that it wouldn't wash even if they wished to do so.

I don't want Brexit to fail i live in this country what possible benefit would it be to me, you tend to lose the desire to fold your arms smugly and say i told you so when you are out of a job and the price of good has massively inflated. My reason for wanting to remain was far from ideological, yeah i think Nationalism is a lot of silly nonsense but if i genuinely felt we would be better off out i'd have voted Leave without hesitation.

I'm metaphorically in the waiting room, fearing the worst and hoping i'm wrong.

But they do have the whips and a majority, so go along to get along is the main criteria.

Why should the process be delayed? It should have started the day after the referendum considering it will take up to two years to escape. We're not shutting it all down the moment Article 50 is signed and presented. No reason for delays.

That's what I said, the meandering of the Remain camp has always been a lost cause. Instead of accepting the outcome and engaging as part of the process they have lost all credibility by resisting the very thing they claim gives them authority - democracy. Like the left in the States, it has been a shit show from the Remain camp. Now they'll have no influence because their motives will be suspected. Behaving like genuine democrats (even though they would have been pretending) would have placed them in a far more credible position.

You can relax about Brexit. It's obvious on every level we are better off as a sovereign state. That's not to say we are in good shape because we aren't. Nobody is. But no point making it even worse by continuing to have a rock tied to your ankles as you swim to find an economic and cultural handhold in the debris.

Our economy is collapsing no matter what we do, along with every other economy on the planet. This is inevitable and unavoidable. That's because the global economy is an unsustainable illusion, built entirely on debt and primarily on slave labour. It can't persist because the maths don't allow it and the people most abused by it won't tolerate it beyond the point of having nothing left to lose, a point they reached and passed a while back. We can see the results right across the globe as the civil unrest rises. You can be sure of this, the banksters, the politicians, the grey establishment types have no idea how to fix this beyond imposing more of the same shit that got us here in the first place. They were the problem and now they are determined to accelerate the problem. The fewer we have to deal with the better. There's little doubt they have been put on notice and they know it. Brexit was the first domino and there are many more to fall.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But they do have the whips and a majority, so go along to get along is the main criteria.

Why should the process be delayed? It should have started the day after the referendum considering it will take up to two years to escape. We're not shutting it all down the moment Article 50 is signed and presented. No reason for delays.

That's what I said, the meandering of the Remain camp has always been a lost cause. Instead of accepting the outcome and engaging as part of the process they have lost all credibility by resisting the very thing they claim gives them authority - democracy. Like the left in the States, it has been a shit show from the Remain camp. Now they'll have no influence because their motives will be suspected. Behaving like genuine democrats (even though they would have been pretending) would have placed them in a far more credible position.

You can relax about Brexit. It's obvious on every level we are better off as a sovereign state. That's not to say we are in good shape because we aren't. Nobody is. But no point making it even worse by continuing to have a rock tied to your ankles as you swim to find an economic and cultural handhold in the debris.

Our economy is collapsing no matter what we do, along with every other economy on the planet. This is inevitable and unavoidable. That's because the global economy is an unsustainable illusion, built entirely on debt and primarily on slave labour. It can't persist because the maths don't allow it and the people most abused by it won't tolerate it beyond the point of having nothing left to lose, a point they reached and passed a while back. We can see the results right across the globe as the civil unrest rises. You can be sure of this, the banksters, the politicians, the grey establishment types have no idea how to fix this beyond imposing more of the same shit that got us here in the first place. They were the problem and now they are determined to accelerate the problem. The fewer we have to deal with the better. There's little doubt they have been put on notice and they know it. Brexit was the first domino and there are many more to fall.

My observation is that with Brexit and Trump the petulence and babyish attitudes prevail on both sides

Of course it's ridiculous to suggest that almost 63,000,000 Americans are racist or stupid, of course they had legitimate grievances.....i just think it's sad for them that the only recourse they had was to cosy up to a grotesque self-parody like Donald Trump, just in the same way that i think a majority of the people who voted leave did so for myriad reasons and are being encouraged by people who are going to make sure that they and only they benefit to rush through this process in the same way you wouldn't when buying and selling a house (you wouldn't sell your home without having at least alternative accommodation). #

Maybe our over dependence on the EU was akin to a drug addiction, but even smack heads use methadone to help themselves kick the habit.

If everything about globalism is bad, then the logic would be that you had a ready made national infrastructure to replace it when you cut the umbellical cord but we don't....and so i think it's reasonable for me to be concerned that we will be more reliant on bad trade deals than we are already, selling off more of the family silver to the arabs and chinese on short term, short sighted deals.....offering more tax incentives for companies to do business here and trading away employee rights in return.

Might it cause Britain to stand tall long term? I have my doubts when every government in my lifetime has systematically asset mined the country.

That's not an argument for staying that's an argument for changing the way we do things as a country before we leave. The rush to run out of the exit door is i repeat being made by those pushing for the sweetheart deals, wanting to get rid of employee rights as unsustainable and lying bare faced to people who have pushed over and spat on repeatedly that they are taking their country back.

They might as well be wearing Bane masks.

[Letters]

This is why the vote in parliament was unnecessary and undemocratic. The people already voted and fuck the parliament and their made up and two tier laws, which are not genuine laws at all.
I'm not sure how you're distinguishing "genuine" laws from non-genuine but triggering Article 50 has to go through parliament because it's not "the people" who decide these things, it's parliament.
They are supposed to represent "the people" and on this occasion they have been given a steer by "the people" and voted accordingly although if they're really representing their constituents then many of those who voted to trigger Article 50 shouldn't have done and I hope "the people" remember that at the next election.


The referendum was the first taste of democracy we've had in ages and the way it has upset people who plainly don't like democracy after all is pretty illustrative. These fuckers will tell you straight to your face, we can't leave these things up to the people in our "representative democracies", we have to decide what's best for them because it's all just too complicated for them to understand.

The result upset me because it was based on a combination of lies and idiocy. There were some good arguments for leaving but a large (inaccurate) number written on the side of a bus wasn't one of them.
The number of people Googling "what is the EU" after the result or saying they voted Leave as a protest, not expecting the result to go that way suggests a lot of people didn't think it through at all. And that's not the politicians thought, that's them just not bothering to take the time to understand things properly.
It's a pretty poor basis for such a big change in our future - even if you happen to think it's the right thing to do.

How do you think think kicking out of the politicians would work in practise?


A gang could roam down your street today and the police wouldn't do a damn thing about it. Their job is now almost entirely concerned with running a protection racket. Dishing fines and protecting business, that's what they do.
You say that, if you're rude to a bus driver they're there like a shot <_<

[Niall_Quinn]

My observation is that with Brexit and Trump the petulence and babyish attitudes prevail on both sides

Of course it's ridiculous to suggest that almost 63,000,000 Americans are racist or stupid, of course they had legitimate grievances.....i just think it's sad for them that the only recourse they had was to cosy up to a grotesque self-parody like Donald Trump, just in the same way that i think a majority of the people who voted leave did so for myriad reasons and are being encouraged by people who are going to make sure that they and only they benefit to rush through this process in the same way you wouldn't when buying and selling a house (you wouldn't sell your home without having at least alternative accommodation). #

Maybe our over dependence on the EU was akin to a drug addiction, but even smack heads use methadone to help themselves kick the habit.

If everything about globalism is bad, then the logic would be that you had a ready made national infrastructure to replace it when you cut the umbellical cord but we don't....and so i think it's reasonable for me to be concerned that we will be more reliant on bad trade deals than we are already, selling off more of the family silver to the arabs and chinese on short term, short sighted deals.....offering more tax incentives for companies to do business here and trading away employee rights in return.

Might it cause Britain to stand tall long term? I have my doubts when every government in my lifetime has systematically asset mined the country.

That's not an argument for staying that's an argument for changing the way we do things as a country before we leave. The rush to run out of the exit door is i repeat being made by those pushing for the sweetheart deals, wanting to get rid of employee rights as unsustainable and lying bare faced to people who have pushed over and spat on repeatedly that they are taking their country back.

They might as well be wearing Bane masks.

The yanks did have another choice, the best choice of all. Vote for none of them. But that sensible and liberating choice isn't even considered. If you want to send a "fuck you" message then make it a "fuck all of you" message. But people have been brainwashed into thinking the non-choices they are offered are real.

You're right to be nervous about our future prospects, anyone who isn't is a fool. But that's a concern with or without the EU and like I said, the last thing we'll need when the time comes is to be tethered to the Titanic. We'll need to be agile and creative when the global economy goes down.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The yanks did have another choice, the best choice of all. Vote for none of them. But that sensible and liberating choice isn't even considered. If you want to send a "fuck you" message then make it a "fuck all of you" message. But people have been brainwashed into thinking the non-choices they are offered are real.

You're right to be nervous about our future prospects, anyone who isn't is a fool. But that's a concern with or without the EU and like I said, the last thing we'll need when the time comes is to be tethered to the Titanic. We'll need to be agile and creative when the global economy goes down.

Well yes i'm going to go ahead and guess that the majority of the 150 million people who voted in America on November 2016 don't agree with you that they'd be better off with no government, they might agree with you that government isn't working in their best interests, constantly lies to them etc but sometimes just to get the basic things actually done that you have to hit and hope and devolve certain tasks to the least objectionable.

[Letters]

That's the same argument as my 'everyone should stop going to Arsenal' one.
In theory it's the right thing if you want change, in practise it's never gonna happen.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not sure how you're distinguishing "genuine" laws from non-genuine but triggering Article 50 has to go through parliament because it's not "the people" who decide these things, it's parliament.
They are supposed to represent "the people" and on this occasion they have been given a steer by "the people" and voted accordingly although if they're really representing their constituents then many of those who voted to trigger Article 50 shouldn't have done and I hope "the people" remember that at the next election.



The result upset me because it was based on a combination of lies and idiocy. There were some good arguments for leaving but a large (inaccurate) number written on the side of a bus wasn't one of them.
The number of people Googling "what is the EU" after the result or saying they voted Leave as a protest, not expecting the result to go that way suggests a lot of people didn't think it through at all. And that's not the politicians thought, that's them just not bothering to take the time to understand things properly.
It's a pretty poor basis for such a big change in our future - even if you happen to think it's the right thing to do.

How do you think think kicking out of the politicians would work in practise?


You say that, if you're rude to a bus driver they're there like a shot <_<

Real law has a letter and a spirit and is consent based. Law is different to decree. Tyrants make decrees, laws are made by people amongst themselves. We all know why it's wrong to kill in cold blood. Yet we understand it's okay to kill in self defence. There is a life based practicality to that natural law. Only premeditated murderers would dispute that law and they are in such a minority that common sense and the common good says it's just fine to disenfranchise them. Statute is decree enacted by fucker who can't be trusted and don't give a damn about consent. Their "laws" are a means to an end rather than a social agreement. I don't agree to pay the cunts half the proceeds of my labour so they steal it and then pretend it's the law. no it isn't. Any fool with enough guns can claim he represents the law but that doesn't make it so in lawful terms, only in practical terms.

Article 50 is EU law, more illegitimate shit that nobody has agreed to. So actually, no, parliament doesn't have to decide these things because there's nothing to decide. The people among themselves agreed that we leave the EU. It was a majority agreement and 48% were disenfranchised in the process (which is why I hate democracy)but them's the rules we play by and the referendum had far more in common with real law than any shitty decree coming down from an unelected fuck in the EU or a for rent asshole in Westminster.

But, for some reason, the majority believes the government has legitimacy just because it decrees it. Bizarre but the will of the majority has to be accepted in this respect just as much as it has to be respected in terms of the referendum result - so we are stuck with fucking government. Sad but true.

I can't believe you are going on about the bus thing. Either you want a serious conversation or you want to talk about politics. You can't have both.

Everything that comes out of every politician's mouth is a lie. Everything. Maybe they speak truth within a limited context or confine, but when you extend that context out to a real world scope or get rid of the confines and look at the full body of information then it quickly becomes apparent that all politician's lie all of the time. The fact they are politicians means they lie. That is the job of a politician. To convince the many that the interests of the few are acceptable.

How would kicking out politicians work in practice? Well, I'd go down to Westminster Palace, get them by the hair, drag them out and kick them in the gutter. That seems the most practical solution. Hanging them from lampposts would be appropriate but not lawful. Sometimes you have to accept the law is an ass.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's the same argument as my 'everyone should stop going to Arsenal' one.
In theory it's the right thing if you want change, in practise it's never gonna happen.

It's not even in the vicinity of being the same argument. Arsenal doesn't come to my door and say, Pay Up! Get your arse to the stadium and support the club.

Huge difference. Terrible analogy.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well yes i'm going to go ahead and guess that the majority of the 150 million people who voted in America on November 2016 don't agree with you that they'd be better off with no government, they might agree with you that government isn't working in their best interests, constantly lies to them etc but sometimes just to get the basic things actually done that you have to hit and hope and devolve certain tasks to the least objectionable.

Yep, true, for some reason the majority of the 150million yanks think they need a government. Just a bad upbringing I guess.

[Letters]

You want everyone, en masse, to stop voting to effect change.
I want everyone, en masse, to stop spending money on Arsenal to effect change.


And Arsenal do turn up at your door, when I was a member they would relentlessly email me and send me letters inviting me to spend more money on them in various ways.

[Niall_Quinn]

You want everyone, en masse, to stop voting to effect change.
I want everyone, en masse, to stop spending money on Arsenal to effect change.


And Arsenal do turn up at your door, when I was a member they would relentlessly email me and send me letters inviting me to spend more money on them in various ways.

Just concede a shitty position and move on. What's the point trying to hold it at all costs?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't always agree with letters but I think that's an apt and succinct comparison he's made


You're saying change can only happen if everyone abstains and so is he

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't always agree with letters but I think that's an apt and succinct comparison he's made


You're saying change can only happen if everyone abstains and so is he

Sorry, but consumers making choices and citizens endorsing a government are so far removed it's hard to know what could be more distant. Yes, total abstinence would have an impact on both, but this similarity only extends as far as saying total abstinence of anything that was previously engaged with is likely to have a result. Put another way, what does a fan in Manchester care if we boycott Arsenal? But he's affected if everyone refuses to turn up for the shitty elections.

[LDG]

One lettuce is bad enough

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Sorry, but consumers making choices and citizens endorsing a government are so far removed it's hard to know what could be more distant. Yes, total abstinence would have an impact on both, but this similarity only extends as far as saying total abstinence of anything that was previously engaged with is likely to have a result. Put another way, what does a fan in Manchester care if we boycott Arsenal? But he's affected if everyone refuses to turn up for the shitty elections.

I would apply that standard equally, what would Germans care if everyone in the UK boycotted their election.....

[Xhaka Can’t]

One lettuce is bad enough

I'll give you fifty pounds.

[Power n Glory]

So the democracy thing? Doesn't exist. Make-believe. Stuff that people can tell themselves.

The only way we'll ever get genuine democracy is if we cut the politicians out of the process. Parliament is the barrier to democracy, and a barrier to every form of equality and justice. People need to stop endorsing that shit if they want to make some progress. And no, it wouldn't be instant chaos if these self-serving scumbags were booted out. There have been plenty of instances of governments being disbanded for long periods of time while they argued who was in charge and who got to sit in the big seats. Hardly anybody fucking noticed they were gone, except the media, their whores. People just got on with their lives because the reality is government is just a giant leech attached to your back and when that leech falls off live actually becomes a hell of a lot easier.

But there would be no police and gangs would roam the streets and kill people! No. To all intents and purposes there are no police now, not for YOU anyway. A gang could roam down your street today and the police wouldn't do a damn thing about it. Their job is now almost entirely concerned with running a protection racket. Dishing fines and protecting business, that's what they do. You get burgled and they won't even show up. They admit it. Government doesn't bring you security, it steals your money so you can't afford hire a security firm to provide you with real rather than imaginary protection. Everything about government is an illusion, albeit a bloody expensive one.

Get rid.

You've got a lot of faith in humanity. Government can act as a big leech but we come across people that are happy to watch others lift the load whilst they do the bare minimum all the time. You've seen The Walking Dead. :lol:

One thing that always stuck with me during a sociology class when talking about crime and punishment was when our lecturer flipped the question and asked 'why don't people commit crime?'. It's morality for some and others don't out of fear of being caught along with social stigma. There are some good people out there but I have zero faith in most people doing the right thing if they knew they could get away with it.

[Niall_Quinn]

I would apply that standard equally, what would Germans care if everyone in the UK boycotted their election.....

Plenty, if it was a referendum on whether to stay hooked up with the instinctively fascist turds. On a national level, depends which hand was washing which hand. For maybe half of them it would mean something.

[Niall_Quinn]

You've got a lot of faith in humanity. Government can act as a big leech but we come across people that are happy to watch others lift the load whilst they do the bare minimum all the time. You've seen The Walking Dead. :lol:

One thing that always stuck with me during a sociology class when talking about crime and punishment was when our lecturer flipped the question and asked 'why don't people commit crime?'. It's morality for some and others don't out of fear of being caught along with social stigma. There are some good people out there but I have zero faith in most people doing the right thing if they knew they could get away with it.

In this country government lets you live to a certain standard if you pay it tribute. Stop paying it and your world collapses. Same principle as the Walking Dead isn't it? If anything, Negan's deal is better because he only dips once. His tax system is a hell of a lot easier to figure out. We already have what you fear. Even the zombies (damn mobile phones).

[Power n Glory]

In this country government lets you live to a certain standard if you pay it tribute. Stop paying it and your world collapses. Same principle as the Walking Dead isn't it? If anything, Negan's deal is better because he only dips once. His tax system is a hell of a lot easier to figure out. We already have what you fear. Even the zombies (damn mobile phones).

Yeah, we already have what I fear. People. :lol: From the smallest of organisations. I remember a mate of mine telling me how when he worked at McDonald's he'd seen a staff member drop a burger on the floor, and with a smile, attempted to pick the burger up, wrap it as normal and then serve it up as normal. Another member of staff stopped him and said 'that could be going into a Happy Meal, throw it away'. Company policy is to throw it away and there were plenty of burgers there to serve but just to make things easy on himself, this guy was taking a short cut. It wasn't the corporation cutting corners, just a normal kid. That's life. Regardless of whether we shrink government, make it bigger, the problem will always be people.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, we already have what I fear. People. :lol: From the smallest of organisations. I remember a mate of mine telling me how when he worked at McDonald's he'd seen a staff member drop a burger on the floor, and with a smile, attempted to pick the burger up, wrap it as normal and then serve it up as normal. Another member of staff stopped him and said 'that could be going into a Happy Meal, throw it away'. Company policy is to throw it away and there were plenty of burgers there to serve but just to make things easy on himself, this guy was taking a short cut. It wasn't the corporation cutting corners, just a normal kid. That's life. Regardless of whether we shrink government, make it bigger, the problem will always be people.

If people are the problem then it's probably a very bad idea to give some of those people authority over the rest of us. Particularly as politics seems to attract the absolute dregs of humanity.

[Power n Glory]

If people are the problem then it's probably a very bad idea to give some of those people authority over the rest of us. Particularly as politics seems to attract the absolute dregs of humanity.

But that's going to happen with or without government. You only have to look at what happens in schools when a popular group is able to pick on one or two outsiders. A pecking order is established quite quickly just based off personality and appearance. Dismantle government and start from zero, I wouldn't be surprised if we arrived at this very same point with a larger government being formed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Takes me back to university days, Nozick who was one kind of libertarian believed that in order to avoid a state of nature you would have a loose grouping of people form a social contract together for mutual protection and Hobbes believed in a larger scale where you deferred authority to a Leviathan

Ultimately i agree people are the problem, government for example is a human construct and is only as corrupt and malign as the people that form it....and in that sense however it's maintained a society of laws of some description does to some degree compel and incentivise people to temper self-interest when it comes at the cost of violating others.

[GP]

Hmm, turns out Chocolate Labradors can't actually eat chocolate.

:rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmm, turns out Chocolate Labradors can't actually eat chocolate.

:rose:

Obviously, because cannibalism is illegal. DUH.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hmm, turns out Chocolate Labradors can't actually eat chocolate.

:rose:

that sounds like you've experienced something i wouldn't want to have seen

[Niall_Quinn]

that sounds like you've experienced something i wouldn't want to have seen

Pics or GTFO

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I see John Bercow getting back slapped yesterday for his grandstanding over Trump addressing Parliament.

Don't get me wrong i don't especially want to hear Trump address Parliament, whilst i'm sure he won't be the only vulgar fraud there.....i'm sure no-one needs to hear a half hour homily about how great he is.

But where was this outrage over Xi Jinping addressing parliament in 2015?.....at least people voted for Trump.

[Letters]

If people are the problem then it's probably a very bad idea to give some of those people authority over the rest of us. Particularly as politics seems to attract the absolute dregs of humanity.
I don't think that's true, I reckon a lot of politicians start out young and naive and getting into it because they actually want to make a difference and make things better.
They may not stay that way but I think that's how most of them start out.

[Niall_Quinn]

I see John Bercow getting back slapped yesterday for his grandstanding over Trump addressing Parliament.

Don't get me wrong i don't especially want to hear Trump address Parliament, whilst i'm sure he won't be the only vulgar fraud there.....i'm sure no-one needs to hear a half hour homily about how great he is.

But where was this outrage over Xi Jinping addressing parliament in 2015?.....at least people voted for Trump.

If politicians weren't hypocrites then how could they be politicians? I think you are criticising them for their nature, which is probably racist or sexist or anti-warmist in some way. Well, whatever that way is - SHAME ON YOU!

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think that's true, I reckon a lot of politicians start out young and naive and getting into it because they actually want to make a difference and make things better.
They may not stay that way but I think that's how most of them start out.

The day I meet a politician who concedes he has no right whatsoever to assume authority over me then I'll consider your opinion. However, at this time I know of no politician who decries authoritarianism. Maybe you know one?

[GP]

Question: Toast racks. What's the point?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Question: Toast racks. What's the point?

Depends how much bread you can fit in your toaster i guess, if only two pieces at a time not a lot really

[Marc Overmars]

No point. If it's left on a rack the chances are it's going to be cold if you want more.

Fresh from the toaster and straight onto the plate is the only way toast should be served.

[Letters]

Not sure what you mean by 'right'. In our system they have been elected to represent the people in their constituency.
If they don't do that then their constituents have the right to vote someone else in who they think will do so better.
In theory you could say no-one has the fundamental right to exert authority over anyone else, in practice though there has to be some structure to things because people are twats and can't be trusted to get on with their lives without being twats to others and if we're going to squish ourselves into cities - which with our population we pretty much have to - then there has to be some structure to it all and that inevitably leads to some people having authority over others.

[Letters]

No point. If it's left on a rack the chances are it's going to be cold if you want more.

Fresh from the toaster and straight onto the plate is the only way toast should be served.

You're a bloody idiot.

No offence.

I like my toast cold so the butter doesn't melt :cool:

[GP]

You're a bloody idiot.

No offence.

I like my toast cold so the butter doesn't melt :cool:

What??

That's weirdest thing I've ever heard.

[Marc Overmars]

Weird as fuck man.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

cold toast is terrible, it tastes stale

[Letters]

If you leave it too long, granted. If it's just cooled down though you have fresh toast and no melted butter.
Winner. Winner. Chicken. Dinner.
:sulk:

[Letters]

What??

That's weirdest thing I've ever heard.

And you've read quite a lot of NQ posts :(

[LDG]

Winner. Winner. Chicken. Dinner.


Said everyone in 1985

[Marc Overmars]

If you leave it too long, granted. If it's just cooled down though you have fresh toast and no melted butter.
Winner. Winner. Chicken. Dinner.
:sulk:

Melted butter is the best part though you savage.

[Letters]

Actually, if I'm JUST having toast and butter (which I do sometimes) then I don't mind it melting.
But that's rare, if it's with marmalade or chocolate spread (shut it) then nah, can't have it melting.

[GP]

This is why no one likes you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This is why no one likes you.

Don't be ridiculous

That's far from being the only reason

[Niall_Quinn]

One of the funniest comments I've seen today...


I've never had more respect for Piers Morgan.... its not a lot but its more than I've ever had...

[Letters]

https://twitter.com/donaeldunready

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

https://twitter.com/donaeldunready

:lol:

While the establishment and its hapless and clueless serfs continue to cry, moan, complain and smash up cars, reality marches on without them.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/most-europeans-want-muslim-ban-immigration-control-middle-east-countries-syria-iran-iraq-poll-a7567301.html

How will the left respond to this? Will it piss its soaked knickers again (surely that's getting a little old) or will it engage in a grown up manner and ensure that the perfectly reasonable step of banning further Muslim immigration into Europe is properly balanced with the protection of law abiding Muslims who are already here?

I suspect the left will forego the opportunity and responsibility and instead redouble their whiney efforts on Twatter.

World is moving around and past you - time to stop snivelling now.

[Letters]

Why is that perfectly reasonable?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What's the best way to stop Muslim migration into Europe or another question where is the vast majority of Muslim migration coming from currently?

The same country isolationists say we have no business in interfering in Syria

Now the left are stupid enough to say we caused the problems in Syria and make that their argument for non intervention, yes the west are responsible for the problems in Syria in large part but if someone drops a plate on my kitchen floor and breaks it, accidentally or not i'm going to hand them a dustpan and brush and say sweep it up please.

The British and the Americans have been keen for so long to either prop up or at least ignore these western educated dictators like Assad because of the pretence that their repressive regimes act as a security net against extremism, however Assad has killed so many of his political opponents that only the extremists remain and it's the ordinary civilian caught up in the middle.

So it seems to me pretty counter-intuitive to say we can't solve all the world's problems, we need to leave these country's to sort out their own affairs and then become exasperated when so many of them are arriving on our doorstep.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why is that perfectly reasonable?

Entirely reasonable, in my opinion. But also in terms of the evidence provided by the situations in France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, the Eastern European nations, any nation that has taken in Muslim immigrants.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's the best way to stop Muslim migration into Europe or another question where is the vast majority of Muslim migration coming from currently?

The same country isolationists say we have no business in interfering in Syria

Now the left are stupid enough to say we caused the problems in Syria and make that their argument for non intervention, yes the west are responsible for the problems in Syria in large part but if someone drops a plate on my kitchen floor and breaks it, accidentally or not i'm going to hand them a dustpan and brush and say sweep it up please.

The British and the Americans have been keen for so long to either prop up or at least ignore these western educated dictators like Assad because of the pretence that their repressive regimes act as a security net against extremism, however Assad has killed so many of his political opponents that only the extremists remain and it's the ordinary civilian caught up in the middle.

So it seems to me pretty counter-intuitive to say we can't solve all the world's problems, we need to leave these country's to sort out their own affairs and then become exasperated when so many of them are arriving on our doorstep.

I agree with most of that. Western interference in the Middle East and East has been an ongoing outrage and has caused many of the problems we see there now. But not all of them by any means. Islam is an exclusive, intolerant and regressive doctrine. These are the facts. In the west we have chosen to ignore that and instead brand ourselves as racists when anyone mentions the obvious. Which is stupid in itself because Islam is not a race.

There is, of course, a degree of genuine racism with any society. But you'd be very hard pushed to argue that Britain, or even the US, is a fundamentally racist society. It doesn't stop the latest batch of lefty fools from making the claim but the evidence doesn't hold up. I mention this because the practitioners of Islam in the main do not want to integrate into "inferior" cultures. They prefer their own culture embedded into the host culture and the hardliners (of which there are far more than admitted) work diligently to ensure there is no mixing of the two. Pockets of Islam in Britain even run their own Sharia councils that subject the Islamic residents within their scope to a set of laws, rules, obligations that are not part of the common culture in Britain and are not endorsed by any British laws. We are a Christian nation (for better or worse) and a tolerant and progressive society (in the main) and the fundamentals of that society run counter to the beliefs and practices of Islam. This doesn't mean by default that Islam is wrong and Christianity is right, it simple means they are incompatible and it's a stupid and destructive move to transplant incompatible cultures into our own. What good can come of it? On the other hand, we have quickly seen what harm can arise.

The situation has become appalling in European nations such as Sweden, Germany, France, etc. This is carefully edited off our screens and out of our newspapers but it is well worth hunting around to find out what unchecked immigration from Islamic states always seems to result in. We will have that here is we persist with our irresponsible open door policies. We are already on our way to permanently embedding the problems we see elsewhere.

We should also remember that these "hard man" dictators we have installed in various Islamic nations have brought secularism mostly against the will of the people. Islamists don't hate us because we are free (one of the most ridiculous arguments of modern times), they hate us because we have imposed our culture on theirs. Get rid of the Assads, Ghadaffis, Saddams and those societies quickly fall back into the hands of fundamental Islam because seemingly that's what the people want. And when Islamists arrive in Europe and Britain a large number of them want the same, regardless of the culture they are entering.

I have noticed more and more young Islamists state casually that we shall have Sharia law here, whether we want it or not. They are very serious about this and they are patient. They view our own cultures as sick, ungodly, depraved and they tolerate living here in the expectation that one day they will liberate our nations in the name of Islam. This isn't a joke, they believe this. Hell, we even have braindead, white, liberal, lunatic, lefty women converting to Islam because they believe the same of our culture. They'll have a nice shock in store once they are fully consumed by the "religion of peace."

So we are engaged in an ideological and cultural war that we played a big start in creating but now we are obliged to survive. The alternative is to beat ourselves, lay down and become subject to a culture that has absolutely no respect for us and considers us inferior.

To demonstrate we have a culture worthy of the name we have two worthy tasks ahead that must be accomplished if we want lasting peace. Firstly, stop this insane multiculturalism that is destroying all culture. If we do nothing else then we must at least ensure we stop making the problem worse. Second, we have to stop attacking the Islamic culture. Whether we approve of it or not we do not have the right to go to their nations and impose our own ideas. Even when we do see great injustice (amazing we can see anything at all with the huge plank of injustice within our own society stuck in our eye) we must allow people to live how they choose to live in their own nations. It is not our business if they want to practice a religion that we see as little more than barbaric. The moment we make it our business then we give our victim the right to intervene and destroy our own culture.

The best result for Christianity and Islam is separation. Live and let live, mind your own business. Again, the clueless lefties will say that this is racism and isolationism. Fortunately the corrupted and rotten left is rapidly destroying itself and will soon be gone, they won't be an issue for much longer.

Then there's oil. And the whole thing goes to shit.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We should also remember that these "hard man" dictators we have installed in various Islamic nations have brought secularism mostly against the will of the people. Islamists don't hate us because we are free (one of the most ridiculous arguments of modern times), they hate us because we have imposed our culture on theirs. Get rid of the Assads, Ghadaffis, Saddams and those societies quickly fall back into the hands of fundamental Islam because seemingly that's what the people want. And when Islamists arrive in Europe and Britain a large number of them want the same, regardless of the culture they are entering.

-------------------------------------------

Saddam nor Ghaddafi nor really Assad are even relatively seccular. Saddam was a sunni Muslim and imposed a very rigid interpretation of Islam on a shi'a majority....Gaddaffi equally saw himself as engaged in "holy war" against America.

These regimes don't form a barrier to Islamism they push people towards it, if you are living in a repressive regime and you are desperate for any kind of change the islamists are going to sound very seductive to you, the same way they are seductive to supposedly displaced morons living here.

I agree that it's not western interference that causes people to stone women, throw gays off building and murder teenagers for listening to western music....but it's an attitude that becomes acceptable because it's cultivated in the society within which they live. Once people become radical islamists i tend to agree that trying to understand them is pointless and i'd rather expedite their meeting with Allah, but the assumption that all Muslims are of this creed and that Islam is at it's core far more nascent than Christianity is the kind of nonsense perpetrated by those who fear Islam not because of it's extremist tendencies but because it's extremist tendencies are a rival to how they'd like to impose their christian views on people (you can see the way rich fundamentalist Christians try to influence African states like Uganda to impose religious laws with their money).
Yes Islam is an extremist religion, but it's not codified into people's DNA.....the people living in the middle east are mainly Muslim by default the same way many people were Christian by default in Western Europe up until the enlightenment.

For certain Men this conservative religion is a great comfort for them because it's manifestly patriarchal (unlike the imaginary patriarchy that the leftist feminists think exists in the west) and when they come and live in the west they try to cling on to the power and control they have over their wives and family that the law in their country of origin bequeathed to them, and this can lead to the type of things like honour killings etc.

However it should be remembered that Honour Killing is not confined to Islam and is known to happen in the Hindu and Sikh community in Islam, along with corrective raping etc. So in that sense the problem is cultural more than religious.

People are more than the sum of what stupid fairy tale they ascribe to, you can believe that the people bombed out of existence by the Russians and Syrian government in Aleppo were irredeemable extremists but that doesn't make it true

[GP]

Tara Palmer-Tomkinson has died.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Tara Palmer-Tomkinson has died.

Drug Overdose, suicide or Big C?

[GP]

Dunno, she was diagnosed with a brain tumour recently, but it could be any of those.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ah non malignant brain tumour.....sometimes you can't do anything about those because of where they are.

[Niall_Quinn]

We should also remember that these "hard man" dictators we have installed in various Islamic nations have brought secularism mostly against the will of the people. Islamists don't hate us because we are free (one of the most ridiculous arguments of modern times), they hate us because we have imposed our culture on theirs. Get rid of the Assads, Ghadaffis, Saddams and those societies quickly fall back into the hands of fundamental Islam because seemingly that's what the people want. And when Islamists arrive in Europe and Britain a large number of them want the same, regardless of the culture they are entering.

-------------------------------------------

Saddam nor Ghaddafi nor really Assad are even relatively seccular. Saddam was a sunni Muslim and imposed a very rigid interpretation of Islam on a shi'a majority....Gaddaffi equally saw himself as engaged in "holy war" against America.

These regimes don't form a barrier to Islamism they push people towards it, if you are living in a repressive regime and you are desperate for any kind of change the islamists are going to sound very seductive to you, the same way they are seductive to supposedly displaced morons living here.

I agree that it's not western interference that causes people to stone women, throw gays off building and murder teenagers for listening to western music....but it's an attitude that becomes acceptable because it's cultivated in the society within which they live. Once people become radical islamists i tend to agree that trying to understand them is pointless and i'd rather expedite their meeting with Allah, but the assumption that all Muslims are of this creed and that Islam is at it's core far more nascent than Christianity is the kind of nonsense perpetrated by those who fear Islam not because of it's extremist tendencies but because it's extremist tendencies are a rival to how they'd like to impose their christian views on people (you can see the way rich fundamentalist Christians try to influence African states like Uganda to impose religious laws with their money).
Yes Islam is an extremist religion, but it's not codified into people's DNA.....the people living in the middle east are mainly Muslim by default the same way many people were Christian by default in Western Europe up until the enlightenment.

For certain Men this conservative religion is a great comfort for them because it's manifestly patriarchal (unlike the imaginary patriarchy that the leftist feminists think exists in the west) and when they come and live in the west they try to cling on to the power and control they have over their wives and family that the law in their country of origin bequeathed to them, and this can lead to the type of things like honour killings etc.

However it should be remembered that Honour Killing is not confined to Islam and is known to happen in the Hindu and Sikh community in Islam, along with corrective raping etc. So in that sense the problem is cultural more than religious.

People are more than the sum of what stupid fairy tale they ascribe to, you can believe that the people bombed out of existence by the Russians and Syrian government in Aleppo were irredeemable extremists but that doesn't make it true

It would be interesting to see where I claimed people bombed out of Aleppo are irredeemable extremists. What I said was Islam is incompatible with Christianity because it is. Obviously there are always exceptions to every rule but in the main if we keep allowing Islam to transport itself into western culture it will end in conflict. This process is already underway on the European mainland. As disruptive, counterproductive and reprehensible as our policies have been abroad it makes no sense whatsoever to allow our societies to disintegrate as some form of penance. This is not about fear, this is about practicalities unfolding in front of our eyes. For those who choose to look at least. Every tag under the sun can be thrown out to criticise those who observe what is under their nose, racist, bigot, whatever you want, but it would be sensible to at least listen to what the Islamists have to say and how they are openly behaving. If this is a price you are prepared to pay to stay onside in terms of political correctness then be assured that not everyone holds the same opinion. There's no greater opponent than myself of the appalling overseas adventures of criminals like Tony Blair. But I won't apologise for him to the extent of having the society I live in slowly submerged into an alien and alien culture. Especially when that alien culture drags the society even further back into a new dark age. We have enough afflictions of our own without taking on a sack load more.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Again equating every Muslim with an Islamist is the same as comparing Letters with Jerry Falwell

Who cares if Islam is incompatible with Christianity?. The west is secular not religious

Christian values of the Crusades and the Inquisition are incompatible with modern values, like i say there was a thing called the enlightenment and now the most illiberal and dangerous passages of the Bible are now paid lip service to.

The same will happen with Islam as soon as these repressive regimes that use the faith to impose their control are gotten rid of (and i think the best way to do that in part is end our dependence on the mineral slime collecting way beneath their soil).

Just for example how devout do you suppose Mo Farah is?....or Mesut Ozil, Granit Xhaka, Skhrodan Mustafi or the other muzzas that play for us. They probably don't drink or eat swine (and probably lapse as far as that's concerned as well) these younger generations are hardly the outliers here.

I haven't called you bigoted, racist or anything like that, i just think your argument is over simplified.

[Niall_Quinn]

Again equating every Muslim with an Islamist is the same as comparing Letters with Jerry Falwell

Who cares if Islam is incompatible with Christianity?. The west is secular not religious

Christian values of the Crusades and the Inquisition are incompatible with modern values, like i say there was a thing called the enlightenment and now the most illiberal and dangerous passages of the Bible are now paid lip service to.

The same will happen with Islam as soon as these repressive regimes that use the faith to impose their control are gotten rid of (and i think the best way to do that in part is end our dependence on the mineral slime collecting way beneath their soil).

Just for example how devout do you suppose Mo Farah is?....or Mesut Ozil, Granit Xhaka, Skhrodan Mustafi or the other muzzas that play for us. They probably don't drink or eat swine (and probably lapse as far as that's concerned as well) these younger generations are hardly the outliers here.

I haven't called you bigoted, racist or anything like that, i just think your argument is over simplified.

I didn't say you called me anything. I said the prevailing politics is to label anyone who objects to the mainstream narrative (or absence of narrative) of very real problems unfolding right now. Those who supported Brexit - stupid racists. Those who supported Trump - stupid racists. That's the simple argument. You're right, Britain to all intents and purposes is secular, albeit with a hat-tip to Christianity. However, our now secular beliefs and ideals are based on traditional Christianity, it's where we have drawn our values from. Of course we hardly adhere to those values but we do stay within a basic set of constraints that just about holds our society together. I doubt anyone could convincingly argue that our culture is not underpinned by Christianity. So yes, you have Muslims who adhere to the Muslim faith to the same degree as we might express ourselves as Christians, which is not much at all in practical terms. I'm not talking about these people, although they should be more worried than most about this rising tide of Islam in the west. They would be first under the lash and many are here to escape Islam and have no problems integrating. Is anyone arguing that all Muslims should be deported? The BNP perhaps, the KKK, or whatever these tiny minority groups now call themselves. This isn't a seriously held position by any significant political or idealogical movement, it's a smear manufactured by the left. The question is, should we continue to allow more Muslims into the west? The answer has to be no because Islam has increasingly become radicalised in those nations where it holds sway. Yes of course, partly because of our prior interventions, but regardless it is a stupid policy to open the door and allow people who hate you and want to destroy you to walk through it. It's quite amazing that such an obvious position hasn't been enacted by default. Instead it is tied up in trivialities conjured by oblivious fools on the left.

The sensible position is to halt all immigration from any Muslim nation while we are at war with Islam. I guess there will be those who deny this war even exists and there will be others who rightly point out that we helped start the war, which is true but doesn't relieve us of the fact the war is real. My position would be far less ambiguous than Trump's. There would be no 90 day period, it would be permanent and it would extend to all Muslim nations, no exceptions. It would also extend to any nation with lapse security policies that allow migrants and refugees to transit through their territory. Then I'd poke my nose out of the affairs of those nations and get on with my own business, because we have plenty to do that doesn't revolve around these issues. I know this isn't going to happen and we are going to be left in a situation where we refuse to mind our own business and then cry on about Islamic blowback. That's not a problem I can do much about. But it is heartening to see that more people here and in Europe are at least becoming aware of the growing threat we are facing. It's just a shame that more "moderate" (on the take) politicians cannot accept the reality they helped build and it may be left to more extreme candidates to act. That in itself will bring brand new problems but even so, we cannot continue to allow multiculturalism and all that other globalist bullshit a free hand because the alternative has serious flaws. Globalisation is flawed and destructive fro top to bottom, 100%. Every alternative is a better alternative. If we were smart we'd find a humanitarian alternative but we aren't even smart enough to get rid of government so there's a way to go yet until we figure this out in a sane and rational and equitable manner. Until then, we have to deal with what is in front of us.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm sorry this is where we fundamentally disagree, Christianity is a thin coated veneer on western society.

The reason the west is far more progressive is because it's moved away from the dark ages of superstition and revealed truth, the theocratic control Christianity (mainly the Catholic Church) has over western society has very gradually over the last few hundred years been loosened and loosened. Blasphemy hardly exists within modern statue books and whilst American politicians have to go through the circus of pretending they are devout (even Trump isn't immune) to earn favour with a country in part founded by puritans.

The days of torturing and murdering apostates and even now applying biblical law to tell people who they can go to bed with and in what position has diminished. These Christian values you ascribe to the west are humanistic values and just because the Protestants advocated for these to get away from puritanical Catholic dogma does not make them especially Christian.

You can have a war on Islam if you want, but I'd suggest you could only do it by being as radical and messianic as the most extreme Islamist. The war between civilisations is the kind of fear mongering nonsense that people like Anders Breivik wanted to agitate for, and really despite your dislike of government and everything else I would tend to believe you are not that maladjusted.

It's all bollocks at the end of the day, do I think there has been too much bending over backwards to the hurt feelings of Islam by the regressive left? Yes of course I do. I think the media should have the balls to have published the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, The Danish cartoons etc......people only get up in arms about that shit because they are given the freedom to throw these kind of temper tantrums.
The vast majority would shut the fuck up if told to because they know ultimately where they are better off, and not because it clashes with their plan to bring about the caliphate in Western Europe.
Morons might tell you they want a caliphate, but why would you pay them any more mind than the middle class wooly minded university dipstick who thinks he's a communist.
It's the kind of shit that's fun to say when there's no danger of it ever happening.

[Niall_Quinn]

Many things that had no danger of happening are unfolding in front of you right now, at unprecedented speed. I wonder what it will take for people to reevaluate what is possible and what is not? Comfortable assumptions are no substitute for the facts on the ground. There are countless millions of Muslims in the west now and a significant portion is radicalised. In major European cities in Belgium, Sweden, Spain, France, Norway natives are fleeing as the Muslim population and birthrate explodes. Estimates for Brussels (the seat of the EU) have the Muslim population becoming the majority by 2030. The same trend is developing elsewhere as Muslin leaders calmly explain it is just a matter of time before their version of culture and law is implemented by democratic means. They also make it very, very clear. Europeans will be given the option to convert or else. Meanwhile our own leaders sit on their hands watching this, refusing to prosecute and covering up criminality and hate speech by Muslims yet jumping all over the slightest criticism by the native population. And ever growing list of concessions see us dispense with one tradition or value after another to avoid offending visitors in our own land. Political correctness gone mad? Or political correctness as a clear and present danger to the safety and security of the nation?

We do not have our war "on" Islam, we are engaged in a war that we first brought to them and is now being brought back to us and it's more than slightly naive to look around you and say no, this is not happening. I don't even say they are not entitled to their response. But I do say it would be foolish to ignore them or hope they are going away. Idiotic and dangerous open door policies, waves of people consisting of those in need, those fleeing for their lives, and what else? Will we also deny that the flood of immigrants harbours an increasing number of radicals that gratefully accept the free passage west? The shift in demographics, the birthrate, the useful idiots on the left, the greedy corporations who couldn't give a fuck about anything bar profit, the silent media, the ridiculously unbalanced courts, the hair trigger abuse for anyone who even mentions any of this? Is none of it happening? Is it make believe? Trumps says hey, we're stopping this for 90 days so we can figure out what the fuck is going on - the whole world goes ballistic. Fascist USA, the end of America, Trump is Hitler. This is how we now behave when a president with the support of the majority of his people undertakes his first and foremost role to defend the nation against enemies foreign and domestic. If we are so whipped that we can't even put a front door up and say, please knock and tell me who you are, then we're done.

We can wake up now and all engage in this and contribute ideas and solutions or we can be complacent and leave it to the inevitable figures that emerge to, as you say, practise what they preach against. But if we do the latter then we'll end up in the very nation these tree hugger, know nothing, impractical fools want to wish into reality without doing any work for it. Leave it to those who not only are prepared to act but are chomping at the bit and you'll have a nation where anyone minus a pasty white complexion will be victimised. Right now that is far, far from the case and suggesting we need to be more vigilant and more organised and secure in an increasingly dangerous world is in no way an indication the society has swung to the far right or is racist. If we want to defend this society at all then we'd best wise up and man up.

More things that there is no danger of ever happening will be happening in Europe in 2017. Watch out for them and examine the frequency of these "impossible" events. This, by the way, comes at a time when our economies are set to fall off a cliff. With reference to history, the setting for the collapse of empires is almost fully in place.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

When you say a significant portion are radicalised are you able to determine what radicalised means and are you able to give a number.

Ethnic diversity is always going to be bigger in cities, the Muslim population of Belgium on the whole is 3%. This argument about being outbred? What would you suggest to combat that?. So many people talk about the folly of Merkel bringing so many Syrians into Germany but why do you suppose she did that? It wasn't out of the goodness of her heart it was because Germany has an ageing workforce that isn't being replenished quickly enough.
Turks have been migrating to Germany for years so the principle is similar, and for all this Islam is incompatible with western values I would agree in so far that Islam as its practiced and enforced in the states where it is not just the faith of the land it is the law of the land I would agree, but that's not the same as saying Muslims cannot adapt to western values and this would only be true if you are saying that there is something genetically instilled in people of the Muslim faith to reject secularism, and even historically this is untrue as the actual caliphates of the Middle Ages were more secular than the western countries at the time and only since the more Puritan Wahaabist doctrine became commonplace that the faith was forced with the threat of the sword.

I do think there is a fundamental difference between a more nuanced reaction that says Islam currently is a rigid, conservative doctrine and we have been too keen to encourage multi culturalism rather than reinforcing western values of Liberty and religious freedom and we have made a rod for our own back. And this is the groundwork for a cultural invasion.

In America whites are being outbred by Hispanics, it's not a Spic invasion it's just they are probably less likely to use contraceptives and in honesty Hispanic women are more likely to be wives and home makers than their WASP counterparts.

Do certain Muslim leaders in Europe call for Muslims to bring about a caliphate? Yes and I do think we should deport those who do it and are not naturalised. But as I've said before the type of Muslims I used as an example many of whom make up the Arsenal squad are the vast, vast majority not the radicalised malcontents.

[Letters]

TPT :rose:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-38911818

[Letters]

TPT :rose:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-38911818

Oh. Didn't see the posts on the last page.

[Letters]

When you say a significant portion are radicalised are you able to determine what radicalised means and are you able to give a number.
You're asking NQ to back up rhetoric with facts? Good luck with that! :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Radicalised means adhering to the letter of the Quran and committing to the goal of converting or forcing everyone else to that letter. Last estimates I saw related only to the UK where 1 in 9 Muslins under the age of (can't remember, it was twenty something) were considered "devout" (brainwashed). Given the open border policy in mainland Europe and the fact the majority of immigrants arriving are young males of military service age it would be very unlikely the rate is lower and far more likely it is higher. In theory we may have allowed a million man army (or bigger) to walk into Europe unopposed.

Yes, that's why I mentioned the economic factor and the global economy. It all comes back to corruption and the rot and decay of our own ideals and cultures. We have allowed politicians to hand every aspect of our lives (in practical terms) to the banksters and marketers and this has resulted in the slow motion fall of the west. This is not a unique event, it has occurred many times throughout history and the wheel is turning again. So our war is on multiple fronts, I don't deny that. We have enemies foreign and domestic, particularly domestic. And whilst I agree that Christianity has been hollowed out I wouldn't totally agree that this, or any nation in the west, is secular. Money has become a religion in its own right. You examine the cult of money and you'll see every aspect of a religion firmly in place. The priests, the faith, the devotion, the rituals, the holy word, it's all there. People have forgotten who they are as they have made themselves subservient in all repeats to this religion. And it has been our weakness. Profit judgements made on families, women who can't afford to look after their kids, real life vampires permitted to feast on every member of society with absolute impunity. It's a horror scene direct from the pages of Stoker but because it is so familiar it is accepted as normal. Nevertheless, it is the source of our weakness on so many fronts. And perhaps it is right that the weak and inadequate should die off, but it's hard to expect individuals to look at it that way from a personal point of view. So we either fight or die. We need to fight off the vampires and the barbarians. And then have a rethink about what we built our cultures on in the first place, the basic humanities before great leaders fucked the whole thing up. As always, examine the role of government in all this. If I have to rest my case one more time I'll have to retire it.

I don't see any similarity between the Hispanics and Muslims. One is a racial typing the other is a religion that is based on a book that issues commands from God that elevate the Muslims to a superior status, make animals of those who do not believe and commands those of faith to stay separate from and teach (though never take teaching from) the inferiors. The message is not integration, it is conversion. There is no grey area here. And perhaps the majority of Muslims turn a blind eye to this yet still call themselves Muslims. But the radical majority always target that less fervent group first. Wherever you look, whenever Islamic radicals gain authority it is always Muslims who suffer first and suffer longest (mostly because no other fucker is even allowed in the place). And you can ask, well why does the majority put up with this? And I can answer, what does the word money mean to you? Or consumer? Or profit? And how could we allow such shite when we can clearly see the suffering and inequality it brings? Well religion is a powerful thing and those who enforce it do so with the utmost prejudice. It takes guts to stand against a fanatic, whether it be a bankster from Canary Wharf or a hook handed nutter from the madrassas. Hispanics are native people to the land who have roots in the same Christianity as us, mainly because we did what the Muslims are trying to do now and invaded by stealth and wiped out their cultures - lesson learned surely? There may be an element of payback for some Hispanics but I'm not seeing a global movement burning flags and stomping up and down the street mindlessly chanting. We're culturally compatible with Hispanics and they with us. I can't see any problem there, I don't see the very fabric of America being burned away should the Hispanics become a majority in some regions or across the nation as a whole.

When you mention the Arsenal squad I really don't think you are getting it. I have not said Muslims should be deported, discriminated against or suffer any sort of unjust treatment. What I have said is we need to stop bringing Muslims in here because a sizeable portion of that group harbour extremely bad intentions towards our society and culture and they have an agenda. You are speaking as if this hasn't already manifested. We have Sharia law in force in pockets of Britain today, did you know that? And lefties are over the moon about it. Cultural diversity, they call it. That's not what the Imams call it. They call it a chink in the armour, a foot through the door. I know the majority of Muslims are law abiding citizens and a sizeable portion of them are integrated, here in the UK at least. But the ridiculous deluge that has befallen Europe in the last decade has given zero opportunity for integration to occur and has instead led to direct cultural conflict. You surely agree with this when you look at what's happening in countries like Sweden, Germany, France, Norway? These are just the facts. We don't need theories and opinions, we can just look at the facts. What has the Arsenal squad or the Muslim living down the road who has lived there for 50 years got to do with this? Nothing. I'm talking about increasing numbers of radicalised Muslims streaming across borders and setting up fifth columns in their host (target) nations, then setting about the task called for in their holy book (which they believe to the letter) to radicalise every Muslim they encounter. And they have many ways of doing this, all based in outrage over this, offence over that, racism here, racism there. They themselves are of course the offensive racists, but that's an unthinkable reality for the lefties who just want to be loved by everyone and have a new iPhone (not necessarily in that order). Useful, useless idiots.

I find it strange that you have such an overt aggression towards Christianity, yet display tolerance for something so intolerant as Islam. This seems like a very strange inversion. Christians piss me off too, but I'm not worried these all talk and do fuck all holier than thou saps are actually ever going to do something notable. As you say, that time has passed. But Islam. These are no Christians. They say what they mean and they do what they say and there are absolutely no grey areas for the devout. None. Don't kid yourself, there is nothing ambiguous here. Religion of peace. Sure, why not? Provided you comply in all respects.

And we are letting them in.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're asking NQ to back up rhetoric with facts? Good luck with that! :lol:

Really is quite sad to see you, yet again, insert yourself into a debate with your eternal childishness.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know where on earth you seem to get the idea that I'm tolerant towards Islam, I'm just intolerant towards the notion that somehow Christianity is a more benign faith when it demonstrably isn't and the only difference as I've said over and over again between the two faiths Is the vast and extensive pacification process that Christianity has undergone where it's been diluted again and again, to the point where we consider anyone approaching anything like adherence to its message to be totally fucking insane (Westboro Baptist Church etc)

You were around when I was having a discussion with letters the other day, all religion seeks to proselytise and again I question the veracity of your statement that a sizeable portion believe in converting non believers. I keep bringing up the examples of the Arsenal players even though you seem to strangely think I'm doing so because I think you've argued for deportation when actually my entire argument for using these individuals as an example is to state that these are your run of the mill European Muzzas, pew research shows that belief in the sharia, the desire to convert others etc is totally determined by where these individuals live if they come from a gulf state or Indonesia it's quite high because they already exist in a society which is strict and repressive.
The Muslim population is growing in Europe largely due to Muslims having higher birth rates than any other ethnic/religious group, which again I would tie in to the more subservient role played by women in the faith but then again the same could be said of the Hispanics in the United States.
Younger generations of Muzzas born in the west are naturally more liberal than the previous generations, like with the Christians they pay more lip service to their faith....the point I made previously is if you wanted to stem the tide of Muslims coming into Europe.....stop pretending that these repressive regimes are a barrier to radicalisation when they actively encourage it and countries like France and Belgium are in many ways seeing their chickens come home to roost from their colonial past, leave the countries in a mess and don't be surprised if their citizens want to start living in yours.
Let me make this clear, Islam to me like all religion is a pestilence it's a threat to civilisation because it hasn't gone through the dilution Christianity has, the quaranic passages are no more extreme or disgusting than anything in the Old Testament (there is a parity of vile barbarism). The only thing that disturbs me more about Islam is how it considers itself the final revelation, however given time Muzzas will pay lip service to that in the way most Christians ignore everything in their holy book and laughably pretend Christianity is all about peace and being charitable.

An actual Muslim ban is moronic because no one asks what your faith is, even Trump finally realised that and that's why he came up with the list which the Obama administration drew up as being unsafe for Americans to travel to.

My question over the travel ban is that it's ultimately going to achieve very little, as the list is arbitrary (no turkey? No Saudi Arabia?) and that many of the refugees from these countries already undergo extensive vetting before being relocated to the US.
Plus it's a moratorium rather than a ban for 2-3 months, what the fuck does Trump going to achieve in that time....like with everything he does, all for show.

[Letters]

Really is quite sad to see you, yet again, insert yourself into a debate with your eternal childishness.

Childishness? How dare you, poo-poo pants! :sulk:

[Letters]

I'm just intolerant towards the notion that somehow Christianity is a more benign faith when it demonstrably isn't.
Hello! Demonstrably? Do go on...
What do you think Christianity's message is if you think Westboro Baptist Church are 'on point', as the kids are saying.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hello! Demonstrably? Do go on...
What do you think Christianity's message is if you think Westboro Baptist Church are 'on point', as the kids are saying.

Whilst they are obssessed with homosexuality, they are in keeping with the teachings of the old testament....although the belief that everyone is going to hell for ignoring God is very much new testament.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying to be a True Christian you should look to ape their behaviour, i'm saying the reason you think they are nut jobs is because you are more influenced by a society that espouses ecumenism and tolerance.

You can deny all you like that Christianity has been tamed over the centuries to the point where people now see the Bible as metaphorical in large part, but you don't believe in stoning adulterers, you wear i presume garments made from more than one kind of material, you have also i presume done some kind of labour on the Sabbath. If i was to hazard a guess you belong to some protestant church which teaches the most benign aspects of the Bible and the more benign of Jesus' teachings.....although you disagree with my contempt for your faith you are not overly bothered by it, i'm not a heretic or a blasphemer you just happen to think i'm wrong.

My argument stands that Islam needs to go through that same process and i don't buy for one second that it's unable to do so because after all Christianity managed it

[Letters]

Whilst they are obssessed with homosexuality, they are in keeping with the teachings of the old testament....
Many of which were then modified by Jesus in the New Testament - Sermon on the Mount, You have heard it said... But I say to you...
This is why Christians eat pork, for example, because that command not to was later rescinded. So yes, I do the things you said becuase they are not contrary to Christian teaching.
And when Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment is He said:

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So while the good people at Westboro Baptist Church may think homosexuality is wrong, a lot of Christians do with some good Scriptural background. But I'd like to hear them justify picketing funerals of homosexual people or their "God Hates Fags" sign.
Our model as Christians should be Jesus and if you look at the way he behaves it's all about loving people, not fire and brimstone.

Christianity may have been 'tamed' since the time of the Crusades but I'd argue it has done so in a way which is more in line with Jesus' teachings, not contrary to them.


although you disagree with my contempt for your faith you are not overly bothered by it, i'm not a heretic or a blasphemer you just happen to think i'm wrong.
I'm bothered in as much as you repeatedly show ignorance of what it really teaches so I try to correct that where I see you saying things which are not in line with actual Christian teaching.

I think many Muslims are more moderate in their views but my (admittedly limited) understanding is that their teachings are a bit more 'Old Testament'.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't know where on earth you seem to get the idea that I'm tolerant towards Islam, I'm just intolerant towards the notion that somehow Christianity is a more benign faith when it demonstrably isn't and the only difference as I've said over and over again between the two faiths Is the vast and extensive pacification process that Christianity has undergone where it's been diluted again and again, to the point where we consider anyone approaching anything like adherence to its message to be totally fucking insane (Westboro Baptist Church etc)

You were around when I was having a discussion with letters the other day, all religion seeks to proselytise and again I question the veracity of your statement that a sizeable portion believe in converting non believers. I keep bringing up the examples of the Arsenal players even though you seem to strangely think I'm doing so because I think you've argued for deportation when actually my entire argument for using these individuals as an example is to state that these are your run of the mill European Muzzas, pew research shows that belief in the sharia, the desire to convert others etc is totally determined by where these individuals live if they come from a gulf state or Indonesia it's quite high because they already exist in a society which is strict and repressive.
The Muslim population is growing in Europe largely due to Muslims having higher birth rates than any other ethnic/religious group, which again I would tie in to the more subservient role played by women in the faith but then again the same could be said of the Hispanics in the United States.
Younger generations of Muzzas born in the west are naturally more liberal than the previous generations, like with the Christians they pay more lip service to their faith....the point I made previously is if you wanted to stem the tide of Muslims coming into Europe.....stop pretending that these repressive regimes are a barrier to radicalisation when they actively encourage it and countries like France and Belgium are in many ways seeing their chickens come home to roost from their colonial past, leave the countries in a mess and don't be surprised if their citizens want to start living in yours.
Let me make this clear, Islam to me like all religion is a pestilence it's a threat to civilisation because it hasn't gone through the dilution Christianity has, the quaranic passages are no more extreme or disgusting than anything in the Old Testament (there is a parity of vile barbarism). The only thing that disturbs me more about Islam is how it considers itself the final revelation, however given time Muzzas will pay lip service to that in the way most Christians ignore everything in their holy book and laughably pretend Christianity is all about peace and being charitable.

An actual Muslim ban is moronic because no one asks what your faith is, even Trump finally realised that and that's why he came up with the list which the Obama administration drew up as being unsafe for Americans to travel to.

My question over the travel ban is that it's ultimately going to achieve very little, as the list is arbitrary (no turkey? No Saudi Arabia?) and that many of the refugees from these countries already undergo extensive vetting before being relocated to the US.
Plus it's a moratorium rather than a ban for 2-3 months, what the fuck does Trump going to achieve in that time....like with everything he does, all for show.

Good post. Good discussion in general but I have to bug out and work today. I've tried everything to avoid it but come up short. And with Letters chiming in it's so bloody hard to resist, but I'm shutting this site down now... I am definitely shutting it down. Now.

Any minute.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's only the new testament that brings about the concept of eternal damnation, at least with all the suffering and barbarism in the old testament at least it ends after you snuff it.

Eternal life/damnation as a concept is monumentally wicked, because it plays on people's fear of death in order to instil compliance.

Yes Christians do eat Pork, also why do you think so much of the Spanish diet includes pork....it was the Catholics who forcibly converted the Muslim population and made Pork a staple diet so that there was no question of back sliding.


“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. - You see that as a great teaching i see that as a call to make ones self a slave, put God before anything else in your life, love him by obeying his will and his commands.

Jesus gentle, meek and mild also told people to "give no thought to the morrow" don't save, don't plan ahead etc.....now i'm not going to say that's because Jesus was a bad person....i think like many of the people before and after who claimed the title of Messiah he was a deluded mad man.

But then Jesus seemed to believe that familial ties of any kind was not showing him the devotion he deserved

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.”

This has become the central teaching of the Jehovas Witnesses who instruct their followers to put love of God above any other consideration

The taming of Christianity is in line with the lack of faith in divine revelation, despite the attempts of the parties of God to suppress science and empirical learning it broke through and people stopped believing in Kings with hereditary right to rule, questioning the absolutism of religious authority.

Science and Philosophy and the evolution of Human Rights diminished the power of Christianity

You may argue that it's against "Christian teaching" but your idea of Christian teaching seems to be to pick the best bits and omit the rest (i have no problem with that per se but I'm not going to pretend that Christianity hasn't just evolved into doing this because it realised it was losing it's grip on people).

I know the Catholic Church isn't really your responsibility but only in 1962 and the second vatican council did it a) take away the charge of regicide away from the entire Jewish race and b) No longer push the envelope that the only path to salvation was through the catholic church.

And to be fair the only counter argument you offer is, that's not a true reflection of Christianity. Well yes it is as much as the better side of Jesus' teachings (of which i tend to think there are very few but that's my opinion - you love your own enemy and leave me to despise mine).

Christianity has become liberal in order to stay relevant, it's leaders know it cannot use coercion any more so it has to win hearts and minds. You've said yourself even quoting C.S Lewis that Religion can be nothing without proseltyising and even with the most benign teachings you can think of there is the element of danger there.

The counter argument i get is that Athiests try and convert people, i can only speak for myself because the only thing i have in common with other Athiests is that I have seen no evidence to make me believe that anything in the Bible or any other religious text such as the existence of an omnipotent creator is true. I crticise your faith because i think your open minded enough to take it on the chin, not because i believe you shouldn't be a Christian (why would i care what you believe).
Do i believe in the next few hundred years faith will become less and less relevant to the point where any influence it exerts anywhere around the globe will be nominal, yes i do believe that but it won't come about through conversion to Atheism.....it's just standards of living and education will increase and people won't need it as much any more. That i accept is equally an unfalsifiable claim because i won't be around to verify whether it happens or not.

[Coney]

:popcorn:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38971655

Textbook example of how to be a ruthless, hereditary autocrat

Make sure there is no challenge to your authority from within your own blood line.

His Uncle was executed within a few months of Kim Jong Un succeeding Daddy.

[Letters]

Eternal life/damnation as a concept is monumentally wicked, because it plays on people's fear of death in order to instil compliance.
I think in other religions that is arguably true as there is the idea that you have to be 'good' or follow certain rules to get to heaven. In Christianity it's recognised that no-one is actually good enough to get to heaven ("For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"), all deserve hell ("the wages of sin is death") but God made a way by which we could be saved ("For God so loved the world that...", I guess you know the rest).

I see you focus on the "Love the Lord your God" part, that should be a natural reaction to a God who first loved us and sent His son to deal with the problem of sin, the other part about loving your neighbour is the part which shows that Westboro Baptist Church are not the ones who represent the true face of Christianity. They may believe that homosexuality is wrong and scripturally they have good basis for that but the way they obsess over that and treat people cannot be said to be loving. I agree the church has become too liberal but while we were instructed to spread what we believe (The Great Commission at the end of Matthew) it was never supposed to be my coercion. And if we believe there are eternal consequences to people rejecting God why wouldn't we want to tell others?
My definition of Christian teaching is the teachings of Christ. Simply that. By definition, that's what it is. Old Testament laws need to be looked at in the context of that and as part of an unfolding revelation over millennia. It's not about picking and choosing at all, I just told you what Jesus said was most important.

The difference between Jesus and the other people who claimed they were Messiahs of course is that Jesus is alive and the others aren't. I guess we'll probably have to agree to disagree about that. :lol:

I don't think many atheists do try and convert people actually. Some do (I'm looking at YOU, Richard Dawkins), but most are happy to live and let live. And why wouldn't they be? They may think I am sadly deluded but if they're not following any particularly teaching then why should they care? I worry about the ones who seem so desperate to 'convert' people (Still looking at you, Dawkins). What happened to them that it's not enough for them to simply not believe, they have to insist others don't either.

I have discovered from experience that I will never argue someone into faith, the bloke who was preaching on Sunday related an experience when he was talking to an athiest on a plane, they talked for a long time and the athiest had an answer for every point he tried to make so in the end he said "look, can I just pray for you?". The atheist said fine and had a powerful encounter with God. If you're interested I can upload the recording of that part of his talk. It's things like that which affirm my faith - seeing and hearing about the way God has touched people's lives directly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To claim that there are eternal consequences for not obeying God very much suggests to me how man made it is, and the fact that it doesn't appear until the New Testament suggests that people were making it up as they go along, the concept of heaven and hell comes from Zoroastrian dualism (the eternal struggle between good and evil in the minds of men).

I tend to take Christopher Hitchens view that heaven sounds like a nightmare, an eternity of grovelling and scraping and gratitude to this supposed benevolent dictator who claims rights over us because he created us.

Therefore I take the view also that not only do I think this is not true, I'm rather glad that it seems to me spurious at best

Am I frightened of dying? I would be different from every other person on the planet if I wasn't. But I'm a poorly evolved ape creature with a far too large adrenal gland....I fear a lot of things. Logically there should be nothing to fear from death because there is nothing afterwards, I may know I am dying but I won't be aware of having died or being dead.

Richard Dawkins is an advocate of his position, I'm not a big fan of his but ultimately I don't think he ever makes the argument that people shouldn't believe, he argues that you have no basis for claiming what you believe to be true anymore than a belief in his oft mentioned "flying spaghetti monster"

I tend to prefer Sam Harris and the late Christopher Hitchens who is more of an anti theist, but even at his most vitriolic on faith I don't think he ever wanted religion to be banned his attitude although very intentionally patronising "I'm glad you enjoy playing with your toy, but I don't want to play with your toy and you have no right to make me play with your toy"

And ultimately for all the smoothing of the rough edges and the call for ecumenism, each religion has at its core a need for supremacy of its doctrine. And although the faithful may believe this is for the benign purpose of bringing salvation, for those who preach to their adherents the desire is control.

It's a very human vice, the desire to control and influence others and some have it more than others.

As for these "spiritual moments" people experience, I would argue people who have them religious or Athiest are not looking upon these experiences in the most objective way. If I hear knocking coming from my attic, is my first assumption that the place is haunted or do I try and at least to rule out the more likely alternatives like a bird having got in or a faulty boiler.
I think there tends to be more of a tendency towards credulity rather than objectively appraising what you went through in such moments.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think in other religions that is arguably true as there is the idea that you have to be 'good' or follow certain rules to get to heaven. In Christianity it's recognised that no-one is actually good enough to get to heaven ("For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"), all deserve hell ("the wages of sin is death") but God made a way by which we could be saved ("For God so loved the world that...", I guess you know the rest).

I see you focus on the "Love the Lord your God" part, that should be a natural reaction to a God who first loved us and sent His son to deal with the problem of sin, the other part about loving your neighbour is the part which shows that Westboro Baptist Church are not the ones who represent the true face of Christianity. They may believe that homosexuality is wrong and scripturally they have good basis for that but the way they obsess over that and treat people cannot be said to be loving. I agree the church has become too liberal but while we were instructed to spread what we believe (The Great Commission at the end of Matthew) it was never supposed to be my coercion. And if we believe there are eternal consequences to people rejecting God why wouldn't we want to tell others?
My definition of Christian teaching is the teachings of Christ. Simply that. By definition, that's what it is. Old Testament laws need to be looked at in the context of that and as part of an unfolding revelation over millennia. It's not about picking and choosing at all, I just told you what Jesus said was most important.

The difference between Jesus and the other people who claimed they were Messiahs of course is that Jesus is alive and the others aren't. I guess we'll probably have to agree to disagree about that. :lol:

I don't think many atheists do try and convert people actually. Some do (I'm looking at YOU, Richard Dawkins), but most are happy to live and let live. And why wouldn't they be? They may think I am sadly deluded but if they're not following any particularly teaching then why should they care? I worry about the ones who seem so desperate to 'convert' people (Still looking at you, Dawkins). What happened to them that it's not enough for them to simply not believe, they have to insist others don't either.

I have discovered from experience that I will never argue someone into faith, the bloke who was preaching on Sunday related an experience when he was talking to an athiest on a plane, they talked for a long time and the athiest had an answer for every point he tried to make so in the end he said "look, can I just pray for you?". The atheist said fine and had a powerful encounter with God. If you're interested I can upload the recording of that part of his talk. It's things like that which affirm my faith - seeing and hearing about the way God has touched people's lives directly.

Respectfully (for a change), I don't think most Christians and especially most theologians really understand Christianity or the teachings of Jesus (yes, yes, I'm an arrogant sod, etc, etc). Don't forget, the Book has been (mis)translated many times. Literalism is a huge problem too. As is the understanding of what love actually is. At a best guess I'd say love is a force that provokes an emotional and physical response in humans. Most see it as just the emotion. The instruction to love thy God above all else, for me, is an instruction to remain attuned to the wider, natural forces we are subject to but have shut ourselves off from as the focus on materialism and individualism has intensified. On top of that, I have never found an endorsement for the church in the teachings of Jesus. The church is mentioned and is built on Peter, but it is far from conclusive this suggests a physical church. On the contrary, the church discussed in the Bible seems to be entirely metaphysical. The church is a state of being, a spiritual collaboration. Just because a bunch of Christians carried out a branding exercise and met in a physical location does not endorse a physical church, not by the actual teachings of Jesus at least. The church seems to be a very human endeavour to me, a thing that flies in the face of the intent of Christianity. Christianity is about people, not places, things or the very human trait of leaders who encode language and keep it to themselves as a mechanism of power. It seems inconceivable this is what Jesus intended when he established his church. Once the church is separated from the faith then all the ailments and obscenities of the church can be explained. The church appears to be one of those false idols Christians are warned against and in my reckoning it is the prime candidate for the foretold anti-Christ, the false prophet that preaches love whilst enacting every human evil (sin) imaginable. The deceiver. I'm not a theologian (thankfully) so I haven't had the dubious benefit of brainwashing. Given the many translations, what remains is something I can therefore examine without prejudice, although I fully understand that the "devout" would see such an examination as blasphemy. Which sort of makes my point. The church is all a bit to human for my liking. The mission of the Christian seems misunderstood too. The idea a loving God and his son who insist we have free choice and will be judged upon the choices we make seems to fly in the face of the instruction for Christians to get out there and convert the shit out of everyone. What would be a definition of success? Total conversion? 100% Christianity? How could that be an expression of free will? If there are no disbelievers then how can you have believers? It is only the disbelievers that provide any form of distinction, light has no meaning without darkness, existence has no meaning without a void. How can the mission of God be to eradicate itself through the removal of such distinctions? It makes no logical sense. From what I can determine, "conversion" is by deed (example) rather than word, and there is no end status attached, no prize, no membership. Just a state of being. And they'll know we are Christians by our Love. And they shall be converted when they witness our deeds and understand and experience the force (not emotion) of love. It is well worth chucking out Hollywood and contemplating for a moment what you are actually experiencing when you experience love. There's no soppy, wishy-washy human emotional bullshit going on (unless you can't think beyond the movies). Love is incredibly empowering, motivating, uplifting. It makes us more than we (think) we are. Nothing else touches it apart from it's natural counterpart that must exist, hate, which makes us less than we are. Both have been reduced to mere words. But there are real forces at play and if you give yourself the opportunity to go beyond the very tight confines in which the human has been caged through centuries of indoctrination (particularly by the church), you'll know there are forces at work, one that binds and one that splits. The "people" who have captured this world (the material) know how to use these forces. Divide and rule is a staple through the ages. The abuse of love, compelling one human to destroy another in supposed protection of yet another is the foundation for all war. We are up against some very hateful an very cunning shits and we can look at our iPhones and the listen to the experts (who are so fucking clever they have created this horrible mess all around us, a pit of human suffering in the main) and we can laugh at the notion we don't already know and understand all there is to know about ourselves and our reality and we can laugh even louder at those who refuse ignorance, and every time we do that we make ourselves smaller and the shits who have enslaved us even greater. Conversion in the human sense does exist, except it's us being converted to hate and I think the church has played a very large role in that. I think Jesus would burn the churches down if he came back for a visit. He'd be pissed. I'm sure of it. The only thing I like about the church is the silence. I think the church works best when it is completely, totally silent. Gives you a rare opportunity to think and feel. Then they go and spoil it all by starting up those chants, same stuff every week, in response to the guy in fancy dress. None of it is very convincing. None of it seems useful, but it has proven itself to be very, very dangerous. That doesn't mean there aren't real Christians. Plainly there are, we know them by their deeds. But they could do all that without an encoded society presiding over them, no?

[Letters]

I'm not sure how one can look at a personal experience objectively, they are by definition subjective.
But I'm not sure how you explain what happened to the bloke on the plane. I've heard about too many of these dramatic encounters or healings to dismiss them all.
As I said I can upload the audio if that's helpful.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I never cease to be amazed by the lengths either those who are christians or those defending christianity go to sweeping the old testament under the rug and pretend as though the Bible only begins with the Book of Matthew.

As I explained earlier on in this discussion (last week) even the teachings of Jesus cannot be considered to be particularly moral, it encourages people to forsake family bonds and planning for the future in order to give themselves completely to him as disciples. By any modern standard this is the behaviour of a demagogue.

I don't personally believe that any virtue that Christianity teaches has any supernatural origin or could not be possible without Christianity, and given that i believe Christianity is a human created fiction it is appropriate to believe that the Church is a necessary component of the faith, because faith can only exist with the negation of doubt or alternative explanations......and this is the foundation of the desire to proselytise.

However whilst I believe Church and Faith are co-dependent, I do accept your point that they are not one and the same

I remember having a discussion with someone whose grandparents were catholic missionaries who spent a lot of the church's money to bring comfort and aid to deprived parts of the world, Now the Church's motivation in doing this is all too clear, even the current Pope has stated that the Church cannot be thought of as "an NGO"....we will help you with poverty if we can sign you up to our cult, i mean save your souls. However these individuals i suspect as jesuits believed in doing good for it's own sake (converting these people is doing for their souls, what you have done for their bodies with food, clean water and medicine).
I may disagree with their belief that they are doing the Lord's work because I believe some people will be naturally compelled to do good works without a divine invigilator, but it doesn't really matter because although i'd rather not see the propagation of christianity, they did help other people.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm not sure how one can look at a personal experience objectively, they are by definition subjective.
But I'm not sure how you explain what happened to the bloke on the plane. I've heard about too many of these dramatic encounters or healings to dismiss them all.
As I said I can upload the audio if that's helpful.

I wasn't dismissing anything.

I am saying the people who have the experiences tend to treat them subjectively, some who are already people of faith do so as a result of "wish fulfilment".

Yes i get the argument that to the unbeliever all signs are dust in the wind, but my point would be that you saying "i don't know how else you explain it" is not evidence for the supernatural (which is at it's core very humanistic, the need to use guesswork to fill in gaps in knowledge), it's just a lack of explanation within the confines of human knowledge/understanding.....saying it can't be explained is not the same as saying it cannot be anything else.

Especially given how little we understand how the brain works still.

[GP]

I think in other religions that is arguably true as there is the idea that you have to be 'good' or follow certain rules to get to heaven. In Christianity it's recognised that no-one is actually good enough to get to heaven ("For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"), all deserve hell ("the wages of sin is death") but God made a way by which we could be saved ("For God so loved the world that...", I guess you know the rest).

I see you focus on the "Love the Lord your God" part, that should be a natural reaction to a God who first loved us and sent His son to deal with the problem of sin, the other part about loving your neighbour is the part which shows that Westboro Baptist Church are not the ones who represent the true face of Christianity. They may believe that homosexuality is wrong and scripturally they have good basis for that but the way they obsess over that and treat people cannot be said to be loving. I agree the church has become too liberal but while we were instructed to spread what we believe (The Great Commission at the end of Matthew) it was never supposed to be my coercion. And if we believe there are eternal consequences to people rejecting God why wouldn't we want to tell others?
My definition of Christian teaching is the teachings of Christ. Simply that. By definition, that's what it is. Old Testament laws need to be looked at in the context of that and as part of an unfolding revelation over millennia. It's not about picking and choosing at all, I just told you what Jesus said was most important.

The difference between Jesus and the other people who claimed they were Messiahs of course is that Jesus is alive and the others aren't. I guess we'll probably have to agree to disagree about that. :lol:

I don't think many atheists do try and convert people actually. Some do (I'm looking at YOU, Richard Dawkins), but most are happy to live and let live. And why wouldn't they be? They may think I am sadly deluded but if they're not following any particularly teaching then why should they care? I worry about the ones who seem so desperate to 'convert' people (Still looking at you, Dawkins). What happened to them that it's not enough for them to simply not believe, they have to insist others don't either.

I have discovered from experience that I will never argue someone into faith, the bloke who was preaching on Sunday related an experience when he was talking to an athiest on a plane, they talked for a long time and the athiest had an answer for every point he tried to make so in the end he said "look, can I just pray for you?". The atheist said fine and had a powerful encounter with God. If you're interested I can upload the recording of that part of his talk. It's things like that which affirm my faith - seeing and hearing about the way God has touched people's lives directly.

https://oddshot.tv/s/GEPMcz

Undeniable, tbh.

[GP]

Believe it or not, George isn't at home, Please leave a message at the beep. I must be out, or I'd pick up the phone, Where could I be? Believe it or not, I'm not home

[Letters]

:blink:

[Niall_Quinn]

:blink:

Take a chill pill, George will be back soon enough.

[GP]

Believe it or not, I'm not home.

[Letters]

*Googles*

Oh I see...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Soup Nazi is funnier

[GP]

Blair :bow:

[LDG]

Blair :bow:

:lol:

Massive cunt.

[GP]

The hero this country needs.

[LDG]

The hero this country needs.

Riding into battle with everyone elses wellbeing at the forefront of his mind.

Gotta love him.

The peoples politician.

[Letters]

Respectfully (for a change), I don't think most Christians and especially most theologians really understand Christianity or the teachings of Jesus.. Don't forget, the Book has been (mis)translated many times.
What's your basis for saying it's been mistranslated?
For much of the history of Christianity there was only a translation into Latin available and most people couldn't read so I think in that era it was valid to say that most people didn't know what the Bible actually taught, or only knew what they'd been told by "the clergy" which did give those people a lot of power over the common man.
Now as you say there are a load of translations but my take on that is it's useful to have them because language evolves. The King James is increasingly difficult to understand, more modern translations like the NIV or Good News are more accessible. But each translation is done from the original texts, you don't have this Chinese whisper effect of translations of translations which some people claim.
There are people at my church who know how to read Hebrew and Greek so know what the original texts say. I don't, admittedly, but I take their word for it that the English translations are good representations and when they preach they sometimes explain more about what the original words or phrases mean which adds flavour and context to the words.
As for how accurate the originals are. Well, from what I understand there are far more and far older copies or fragments of Biblical texts than there are of comparable books or writings which gives some confidence.
Ultimately, as I may have said on here before, we're never all going to agree on this - people don't even all agree about 9/11 or JFK or the moon landings which are all in living memory and on film, how are we going to agree on what happened 2000 years ago?


The church is mentioned and is built on Peter, but it is far from conclusive this suggests a physical church. On the contrary, the church discussed in the Bible seems to be entirely metaphysical.
Agreed. The church is the people, not the building.
I don't know why you think examination is blasphemous.


The idea a loving God and his son who insist we have free choice and will be judged upon the choices we make seems to fly in the face of the instruction for Christians to get out there and convert the shit out of everyone.
Is that the NIV?
And does it? I don't follow that. We're told to go to the "ends of the earth" to make disciples but not told to force people into faith in a crusade style. People have free will to accept or reject the message as they see fit and not everyone will believe.
Parable of the sower, innit?

In Biblical translations the word love is used but in Greek there were several words for different kinds of love, the one most commonly used in the New Testament is agape which has a more subtle meaning.


I think the church works best when it is completely, totally silent. Gives you a rare opportunity to think and feel. Then they go and spoil it all by starting up those chants, same stuff every week, in response to the guy in fancy dress.

I think you're talking about the C of E there. Our church is what the kids are calling "happy clappy" and the thing I like most about it is that I don't know what is going to happen because every week is different. I wish I'd grown up in a church like that and not the one I did which is slowly and painfully dying.

Just to respond quickly to one thing HCZ said:


I never cease to be amazed by the lengths either those who are christians or those defending christianity go to sweeping the old testament under the rug and pretend as though the Bible only begins with the Book of Matthew.
No, the Old Testament is very important but it does need to be understood in context and as part of an unfolding revelation over a period of millennia.

[Letters]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-hunters-blamed-immigrants-after-accidentally-shooting-each-other-a7591471.html?cmpid=facebook-post


Wonder who they voted for...

[Marc Overmars]

Trip to NYC booked. :bow:

Fucking love that place.

[LDG]

Trip to NYC booked. :bow:

Fucking love that place.

With bird or mates?

When's the wedding?

Kids on the way?

Mo :lol:

Joining the club :(

[Marc Overmars]

Bird.

June.

Hell no.

Me. :lol:

[Letters]

You're inviting the GW Admin, right? Right? :unsure:

[GP]

Britain First :lol:

Are they for real?

[Letters]

Sadly they are. :(

[GP]

Sadly they are. :(

I saw a post on twitter accusing Cadburys of funding Jihad because there's a halal symbol on the pack in certain regions.

Mental.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Sadly they are. :(

Well it's sad that Paul Golding doesn't seem to realise that Jayda Fransen will never have sex with him.

[Letters]

Stop being a whining liberal lefty snowflake.
Next you'll be claiming Muslims aren't all trying to kill us in our sleep
:sulk:

[GP]

He could do better.

[GP]

Stop being a whining liberal lefty snowflake.
Next you'll be claiming Muslims aren't all trying to kill us in our sleep
:sulk:

That's totally inaccurate.

They'll rape you, then kill you.

Then take your jobs.

[Niall_Quinn]

Stop being a whining liberal lefty snowflake.
Next you'll be claiming Muslims aren't all trying to kill us in our sleep
:sulk:

I wonder why not? They'd have every right to kill the hordes of smug and ultra-complacent and compliant slave drones that keep on endorsing the cause of the third world and developing world's grievances - despite their denials being almost as loud as their hyper-hypocritical virtue parades.

Do you have a warmonger to vote for somewhere? Don't let me keep you from being the problem, Mr Christian.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's totally inaccurate.

They'll rape you, then kill you.

Then take your jobs.

Wrong. Your jobs are more than safe.

[Letters]

That's totally inaccurate.

They'll rape you, then kill you.

Then take your jobs.

No, they'll come over here and be housed for free and earn £60,000 a year on benefits WHILE taking your job. Or is that Romanians? Definitely them foreigners anyway.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, they'll come over here and be housed for free and earn £60,000 a year on benefits WHILE taking your job. Or is that Romanians? Definitely them foreigners anyway.

Says the guy on taxpayer handouts.

[Letters]

Do you have a warmonger to vote for somewhere? Don't let me keep you from being the problem, Mr Christian.
Are you STILL cross about me showing all those stats you posted videos of people spouting were misleading?

:console:

[Letters]

Says the guy on taxpayer handouts.

Seriously don't know how else to explain I work for a part of the British Council which is run as a business, so no. :hug:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He could do better.

The sad twat got himself arrested for making threats to Essex police officers about three years ago

[Marc Overmars]

I saw a post on twitter accusing Cadburys of funding Jihad because there's a halal symbol on the pack in certain regions.

Mental.

Some loon I went to school with is constantly liking and sharing their stuff on Facebook. Some of the most embarrassing shit I've ever seen, though I'm not surprised, he was dumb as fuck back in the day.

Pretty funny though, my newsfeed would be a dull place without him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Are you STILL cross about me showing all those stats you posted videos of people spouting were misleading?

:console:

Cross? Because you're a repeater?

I don't think cross is the word. Repulsed, perhaps. Sad, in a way. The globalists who act are bad, but in the end they are following their convictions and putting those convictions into action. So they can be met with determination as they are a genuine enemy who command respect.

Simpering little toads who run around behind the big boys, mouthing off and fetching and carrying on demand? Yeah, sure, it's embarrassing and frustrating to watch you.

What I know though is a coward will swap sides when the tide turns. And the tide is turning fast. So we'll revisit your neoliberal (and somehow Christian) dreams further down the line, when you have switch 180.

[GP]

Are you STILL cross about me showing all those stats you posted videos of people spouting were misleading?

:console:

Still crying after 37 years.

Uhuh

[Niall_Quinn]

Seriously don't know how else to explain I work for a part of the British Council which is run as a business, so no. :hug:

"Run as a business" :haha:

Carefully chosen words indeed. That well know "business" the FCO? And the insider contracts and scams run through the BHC? It's all good business.

[Letters]

Cross? Because you're a repeater?
Well no, you posted ("repeated", I guess you could say) YouTube videos which spouted misleading figures to back up a point which doesn't stack up. Just because your information comes from different sources that doesn't make your thoughts original you know.

I did my own analysis of the figures to show that the claims in the videos were misleading so then you started talking about individual events. Then you went back to talking about statistics and in the last post I think you implied that the statistics - the ones you started with - were manipulated. In the end you just resorted to calling me stupid and hurled other insults - excellent debating.

You're a mess of contradictions.


And no, not the FCO. We do receieve 20% of our finding through that but the business part of the BC which makes up the vast majority of our turnover is through selling teaching courses and exams, a business.
https://www.britishcouncil.org/organisation/transparency/funding

:tiphat:

[Niall_Quinn]

Well no, you posted ("repeated", I guess you could say) YouTube videos which spouted misleading figures to back up a point which doesn't stack up. Just because your information comes from different sources that doesn't make your thoughts original you know.

I did my own analysis of the figures to show that the claims in the videos were misleading so then you started talking about individual events. Then you went back to talking about statistics and in the last post I think you implied that the statistics - the ones you started with - were manipulated. In the end you just resorted to calling me stupid and hurled other insults - excellent debating.

You're a mess of contradictions.


And no, not the FCO. We do receieve 20% of our finding through that but the business part of the BC which makes up the vast majority of our turnover is through selling teaching courses and exams, a business.
https://www.britishcouncil.org/organisation/transparency/funding

:tiphat:

So it's not run as a business. Is it? Real businesses don't get handouts at the taxpayer's expense. Corporate friends and government knocking shops do though - and jollies for all. It's pretty clear what sort of "culture" the British Council deals in so be more careful in future when you joke about spongers and freeloaders.

This really needs to be spelled out for you doesn't it? But last time because there's no longer any real need to convince your lot anymore.

Chain of events:

Letters the Christian helps elect a bunch of criminals who, unsurprisingly, quickly resort to committing grievous crimes against humanity.

Millions killed in the Middle East, millions displaced.

Letters is OUTRAGED (outraged I tell you), but not to the point of accepting any of the blame and not to the point where he's prepared to speak out or even change his views, because he works for a government funded jolly that serves about as much purpose as a chocolate teapot and skims its wedge from promoting all the usual globalist crap. So, regrettably, globalist crap it will have to be.

Letters takes the money, flies around on his little jollies, and turns a blind eye. Worse, he becomes an establishment mouthpiece eager to shout down anyone who happens to remark on the grand criminality taking place all around us.

The media, wedded to the criminal governments that have committed the ultimate atrocities and war crimes as defined by Nuremberg courts, publish their crap pro-establishment propaganda throughout the process. Wrong about everything, the WMD, the global financial crash, Brexit, Trump, but still Letters laps it all up. A second gospel to the one he holds up in his Christian temple, minor trivialities such as thou shalt not kill ignored as easily as the horrible contradictions in his mainstream media bible.

Europe throws open its doors to cheap labour and easy votes, multiculturalism is the euphemism for mass, unchecked and unqualified immigration by refugees from nations the west has just bombed. No really. This, at the same time we are supposedly fighting a war on terror. Pure insanity, but anyone who complains is immediately branded a racist as the left wing smear machine and the media whores ramp up to maximum effort.

Unemployment, deprivation, resource shortages, social unrest, violence, the abuse of woman all flare across Europe as national infrastructures are overwhelmed, The vast majority of newly arrived immigrants show zero commitment to integrating. They are here for the welfare. Liberal snowflakes race to throw open the national coffers whilst enforcing austerity on their native populations. So virtuous. So humane. Tensions rise (and not just on GW).

The reality begins to seep into the public consciousness. Governments and media panic and start preparing cover stories for their incredible incompetence. People are dying now as terrorist attacks explode across the continent. Once insignificant right wing nationalist and populist movements start to gather support as entire populations suffer under the crazed policies of "respectable" political parties (the ones who did the bombing).

In Sweden a special method is implemented to remove all ethnicity indicators from the crime statistics, this following on from shocking 2005 studies that found over-representation of immigrant criminality as high as 5 to 1 for some of the more serious offences. With the sweep of a pen, the immigrant crime wave is solved in the media even though the increasingly frustrated Swedish population, still desperate to maintain its tradition of openness and inclusiveness, watch on helplessly as immigrant only no-go zones spring up in major cities and music festivals turn into rapefests.

Of the 160,000 immigrants to arrive in Sweden in 2016 just over 500 gain employment. The rest represent an impossible burden for a once prosperous but now rapidly failing state. The UN sends estimates that under current trends Sweden will decline to third world status within a decade - although this is possibly just a statistic. Meanwhile, Muslim clerics across Europe are urging their flock to breed prodigiously so they can breed the white devils out and impose Islam across the continent. The media continues to conceal all of it bar the odd news crew who visit Sweden, the new rape capital of Europe, to take a reality check. One such crew, from 60 Minutes, is assaulted within minutes of entering one of the Muslim no-go zones. The real story is starting to slip out again.

The Swedish government, under extreme pressure from its citizens and watching its coffers drain, control being lost on the street and the outbreak off horrifically adverse publicity overseas despite ongoing national media and bureaucratic efforts to conceal the truth, breaks and does a complete U-turn. It imposes some of the toughest immigration restrictions in Europe. This leaves the Swedish media looking utterly ridiculous, the utopia they have been painting exposing them as the liars and traitors they are.

But, unbelievably, the media persists with spinning its fairy tales about the great success of the multicultural project. Meanwhile, whistleblowers are contradicting them at every turn. The media is now a national joke.

In the UK, Letters is ignorant of all of this, he has yet to be triggered by Trump. He's still busy taking the coin from his latest ally, his mate David Cameron. Lessons learned? Not at all. Repent, says the Lord - but in Letter's holy book everything is up for expedient interpretation. Letter's new guy Cameron starts agitating for more war in the Middle East. Obviously. Apparently, arabs have got a bit pissed at being bombed all the time and have now started doing some bombing of their own. Al'Qaeda - the greatest threat to all humankind bar none, is supplanted by ISIS (although the branding goes through a few changes), the new greatest threat to all humanity bar the next one.

The west misplaces millions of dollars of equipment in the desert and ISIS finds it. Terrible luck because now ISIS is able to kick serious arse. In a purely coincidental turn of events ISIS, instead of heading off to Israel to attack the supposedly hated Jews, opts to attack the bloke that won't let Dave and Barry run a pipeline through his country. The media misses it but does manage to catch the latest news on Kim Kardashian. Letters spends time on GW imparting his words of wisdom gleaned from the on-the-money mainstream media.

Western allies Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey all dig deep to fund the new terrorist on the block. The media turns a blind eye. As an aside, Saudi Arabia is where bin Laden and the majority of 911 hijackers originated from. Qatar will be hosting a multi-billion dollar World Cup. Dave Cameron, Letter's mate, has big plans to sell shitloads of weapons to the Saudis. Yes We Can, Mr Change himself, the "normal" president, Barry Obama, the guy with the easily provable fake birth certificate (which the media missed) or whatever his name is, has shit he wants to sell too.

It's business as usual and all is well in the world. The poor are poorer, the rich richer, there's war everywhere you look, western cities are overrun by "friendly" immigrants who tell the truth only when speaking to Dispatches hidden cameras. Trucks are mowing down civilians, bombs are blowing the shit out of commuters, austerity is creaming everyone's arse (except the few), and the media is revelling in the normality of it all.

But all good things must come to an end. Disaster. Brexit. The majority of the people in the UK shout, fuck this shit, and opt to abandon the unrepresentative globalist centrepiece the EU. The media springs into action. Doom and gloom. Bad shit will happen now, as opposed to all the good stuff we'd been seeing. The "few" who had been honoured at the Cenotaph (the guys who saved Britain the last time around) are relegated to grumpy old selfish git status overnight. Why don't they fucking DIE, scream some liberal progressives. Letters restricts himself to posting up a stream of ever-so-funny, no really, comedy news pieces about the old gits and their fellow racists.

Letter's picks up the pace with a campaign of reporting the apocalyptic consequences he's learned about from... the mainstream media. Yes, those guys. Every day, the cataclysmic projections and the (nudge, wink) smiley. He so told us so. Sigh. This could be more expensive than global warming, which has been in the news of late for... fixing data around an agenda. Unfortunately the mainstream media missed it. Or mostly missed it because to bury something you have to hit it to some degree. This is worse than when the 97% consensus turned into 3%, apart from science turning into a consensus based discipline in the first place, but no, actually that's fine.

Those who avoided blind subservience to criminals like Dave or the almost perfectly wrong and definitely perfectly dishonest media sources attempt to explain the realities but are quickly buried in... mainstream media links. All irony detectors are confiscated by police in dawn raids.

Nasty, racist, bigoted, Brexiteers spring up across the nation and start to implement the 4th Reich. Jews are gassed. Homosexuals rounded up (apart from the government ones), gypsies relocated to Manchester. And then Letters wakes up and sees none of it has happened. So he carries on... quoting mainstream news sources in the hope any day now fascism will rear its head and prove him right.

Then it happens. A stupid, racist, narcissistic, bigoted, racist, new Hitler, racist who had a 99% chance of losing, according to the... mainstream media, becomes the new racist president of the thicko United States. But not really, because Hillary won the popular vote so new rules are required to go along with a second referendum in the UK. Because IT'S NOT FAIR! That's not the worst of it though. The racist Trump starts delivering on election promises! Unheard of, beyond the pale. Trump is tearing up cosy globalist deals left and right, overnight, without so much as a by your leave. The old establishment gentlemen who astutely used their money and connections to avoid service during the war are going nuts. Trump is just saying stuff, without it being filtered through the mainstream media. It's a shambles. He's a moron. And a racist. Not my president! I want Obama back! The guy who dropped 100,000 bombs on the Middle East back! For peace.

Liberals across the globe can't understand why the reality they have suddenly woken up to contrasts so starkly and utterly with what they have been reading in... the Guardian for these past 20 years. It must be the reality that's wrong. Somebody fix it!

Lessons learned? None.

Course of action? Back to the mainstream media to see what they have to say about it. Shout names at Trump. Pretend Hillary won. Call Americans stupid. Sit with a pad and pen and wait... wait for Trump to say something that proves he's a racist, bigot, misogynist, Nazi like the lefties on the BBC are implying with their taxpayer funded and legendary impartiality.

"Yesterday in Sweden,.. Sweden!"

And there it is! The liberal army mobilises and every square inch of newspaper column space is filled with... wait. FUCK IT! SWEDEN :doh:

Blind panic sets in. People are going to SEE this shit. What can be done?

Let's ask the... leftist mainstream media. Thank Allah we prepared those post-reality statistics!

One poor sap who should know better by now asks, but, but... what about all the other shit? The actual reality behind this story and the wider reality of Europe as a whole?

Letters to the rescue, "Still cross about those stats?" Hold strong and avoid every issue and the racists are going to have to go door to door and ask every Swede in order to refute. Cutting reinforcers straight from the kindergarten playbook, "Have you been there? Do you live there?.. Are you Swedish?" No. Point scientifically approved by consensus. Case closed. Genius, Blind faith, denial of contradictory evidence, coupled with abject childishness. FTW.

"Oooooh, you're a mess of contradictions ducky!", the final, crunching blow delivered by the war criminal voting Christian. Bomb them! And then bring them in to work cheap! Virtue signal the whole way. Ridicule anyone with a conscience, and take their money to spend on jollies as a bonus. What's in it for me Jesus?

Am I cross? At you? Are you fucking kidding me?

No, not at you. You are just a handy poster boy for what makes me "cross".

[GP]

Jesus, man. This is a football forum. No one's going to read that.

[Letters]

Jesus, man. This is a football forum. No one's going to read that.

I read the first and last sentences tbf.

[Niall_Quinn]

I read the first and last sentences tbf.

And yet it remains there should you ever find the character. In the meantime - pretend, reset, repeat. It's what all good lightweights do.

[Letters]

Read bits of it. Looked like one big straw man argument with a rather large side-dish of ranting.

[Niall_Quinn]

Read bits of it. Looked like one big straw man argument with a rather large side-dish of ranting.

Well I guess we'll never know for sure because it seems like your big mouth is not so chatty any more.

Until the inevitable next time then.

[Letters]

What's the point? I tried debating in the other post, you kept moving goalposts and contradicting yourself and then just resorted to abuse and calling me stupid.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's the point? I tried debating in the other post, you kept moving goalposts and contradicting yourself and then just resorted to abuse and calling me stupid.

Pathetic Letters. I'm not moving off into a distracting he said, she said runaround designed to put space between you and your last round of confident ignorance. You eventually have some serious thinking to do about the chasm between your claimed character and your actions.

[Letters]

A mixture of abuse and meaningless rhetoric. Interesting.

[Hump]

I wonder where NQ buys his potatoes/

[Letters]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39077293

MrsL :pal:

[Coney]

I wonder where NQ buys his potatoes/

From a colombian dealer by the look of his posts.

[GP]

Bill Paxton is dead.

[LDG]

Bill Paxton is dead.

:(

Game over man. Game over.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fuck off 2016.

Just fuck off!

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/27/rastamouse-banned-from-entering-the-united-states/

:lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

The US is making a terrible mousetake.

[Letters]

You know what to do, 2017...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39150882

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2017/03/10/ford-announces-wanker-driving-mode-for-new-focus-st/

:lol:

[Letters]

One of my FB friends just posted:


Buzzfeed claims to be a member of the liberal media, but then refers to an openly and well-known non-binary transgender person as 'she' and 'her'. A quick look on their twitter/wiki page would tell you they go by singular pronouns. Poor form Buzzfeed, poor form.


non-binary transgender person! :lol:
Sod off.

[GP]

Sick of their shit.

[Marc Overmars]

Fucking freaks.

Worlds gone mad.

[Letters]

This was the same FB friend - she couldn't BE any more 'right on' and she's a militant feminist - who a couple of Christmases ago was bitterly whining about some shop having a separate present display for men and women.
Cos yeah, we're all the same and all like the same things and...no we're not you silly sod!
She's getting married this year. Bet she doesn't change her surname and her husband is embarrassingly whipped and goes along with all her nonsense.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This was the same FB friend - she couldn't BE any more Ridiculous and she's a middle class leftist prat - who a couple of Christmases ago was bitterly whining about some shop having a separate present display for men and women.
Cos yeah, we're all the same and all like the same things and...no we're not you silly sod!
She's getting married this year. Bet she doesn't change her surname and her husband is a balless cuck and goes along with all her nonsense.

Just made a few corrections for you

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

One of my FB friends just posted:




non-binary transgender person! :lol:
Sod off.

Don't get me started on this Social Justice Warrior nonsense, people like that are the reason Donald Trump is now the US President

The professionally offended who believe there is a patriarchy in western countries, believe if a man argues with a woman he's a misogynistic mansplainer

Who thought of these dreadful words.

But also if you want a real laugh....look up Other Kin on You Tube

These people used to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act

[GP]

There seems to be a feeling that no one should ever be offended by anything.

No one has the right to never be offended.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No one has the right not to be offended full stop

And what you find is invariably is its people getting offended on behalf of others

Why should the two words "I'm offended" or the exclamation that "you've hurt my feelings" carry any weight with anyone. It's like...what's your point?.

[Letters]

In the ensuing FB converstion (which I didn't partake in) she said

"someone who is non binary transgender means that they do not recognise the gender they were born in, but are also "gender fluid" so may sometimes feel more female and other times more mal"

Oh piss off :lol:

And "middle class leftish prat" is spot on!

[Letters]

Looking forward to see her reaction to this :ninja:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

[Niall_Quinn]

In the ensuing FB converstion (which I didn't partake in) she said

"someone who is non binary transgender means that they do not recognise the gender they were born in, but are also "gender fluid" so may sometimes feel more female and other times more mal"

Oh piss off :lol:

And "middle class leftish prat" is spot on!

Sounds like a confused fag boy to me. Will probably be dead of AIDS soon anyway so wouldn't waste time worrying about it.

[GP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Monroe


Monroe, who was assigned female at birth, identifies as non-binary transgender and goes by singular they pronouns, rather than "he" or "she".

:ilt:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Assigned.....fuck off

I'm sorry you don't have the Y chromosome but thems the breaks

[Niall_Quinn]

The Muslims will sort this lot out when Sharia law is finally implemented nationwide.

[Letters]

Yeah. Assigned :lol:

Give me a break...

[Letters]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/288F/production/_87038301_yellowcard624.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34901704

:rolleyes:

[Xhaka Can’t]

'They' work so hard at being offended they'd be offended if you didn't offend them.

[Letters]

In other news, one for you NQ!

http://www.wimp.com/alexa-are-you-connected-to-the-cia/

:lol:

[Letters]

More bullshit from that FB conversation


Jack is saying that they no longer identify with the sex they were assigned at birth (thus they claim the term transgender) and that in addition to this, they no longer feel that they fit within a one-or-the-other categorisation and that they feel far more comfortable occupying a greyer area on the gender spectrum

Gender spectrum :lol:

[GP]

Please just reply with "There are two genders"

Please. These people have so little going on in their lives. They have no idea what real problems are.

[GP]

Gender spectrum :lol:

The Gender Spectrum:

Abimegender: a gender that is profound, deep, and infinite; meant to resemble when one mirror is reflecting into another mirror creating an infinite paradox
Adamasgender: a gender which refuses to be categorized
Aerogender: a gender that is influenced by your surroundings
Aesthetigender: a gender that is derived from an aesthetic; also known as videgender
Affectugender: a gender that is affected by mood swings
Agender: the feeling of no gender/absence of gender or neutral gender
Agenderflux: being mostly agender except having small shifts towards other genders making them demigenders (because of the constancy of being agender)
Alexigender: a gender that is fluid between more than one gender but the individual cannot tell what those genders are
Aliusgender: a gender which is removed from common gender descriptors and guidelines
Amaregender: a gender that changes depending on who you’re in love with
Ambigender: defined as having the feeling of two genders simultaneously without fluctuation; meant to reflect the concept of being ambidextrous, only with gender
Ambonec: identifying as both man and woman, yet neither at the same time
Amicagender: a gender that changes depending on which friend you’re with
Androgyne: sometimes used in the case of “androgynous presentation”; describes the feeling of being a mix of both masculine and feminine (and sometimes neutral) gender qualities
Anesigender: feeling like a certain gender yet being more comfortable identifying with another
Angenital: a desire to be without primary sexual characteristics, without necessarily being genderless; one may be both angenital and identify as any other gender alongside
Anogender: a gender that fades in and out but always comes back to the same feeling
Anongender: a gender that is unknown to both yourself and others
Antegender: a protean gender which has the potential to be anything, but is formless and motionless, and therefore, does not manifest as any particular gender
Anxiegender: a gender that is affected by anxiety
Apagender: a feeling of apathy towards ones gender which leads to them not looking any further into it
Apconsugender: a gender where you know what it isn’t, but not what it is; the gender is hiding itself from you
Astergender: a gender that feels bright and celestial
Astralgender: a gender that feels connected to space
(POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING) Autigender: a gender that can only be understood in the context of being autistic
Autogender: a gender experience that is deeply personal to oneself
Axigender: when a person experiences two genders that sit on opposite ends of an axis; one being agender and the other being any other gender; these genders are experienced one at a time with no overlapping and with very short transition time.
Bigender: the feeling of having two genders either at the same time or separately; usually used to describe feeling “traditionally male” and “traditionally female”, but does not have to
Biogender: a gender that feels connected to nature in some way
Blurgender: the feeling of having more than one gender that are somehow blurred together to the point of not being able to distinguish or identify individual genders; synonymous with genderfuzz
Boyflux: when one feels mostly or all male most of the time but experience fluctuating intensity of male identity
Burstgender: and gender that comes in intense bursts of feeling and quickly fades back to the original state
Caelgender: a gender which shares qualities with outer space or has the aesthetic of space, stars, nebulas, etc.
Cassgender: the feeling of gender is unimportant to you
Cassflux: when the level of indifference towards your gender fluctuates
Cavusgender: for people with depression; when you feel one gender when not depressed and another when depressed
Cendgender: when your gender changes between one and its opposite
Ceterofluid: when you are ceterogender and your feelings fluctuate between masculine, feminine, and neutral
Ceterogender: a nonbinary gender with specific masculine, feminine, or neutral feelings
Cisgender: the feeling of being the gender you were assigned at birth, all the time (assigned (fe)male/feeling (fe)male)
Cloudgender: a gender that cannot be fully realized or seen clearly due to depersonalization/derealization disorder
Collgender: the feeling of having too many genders simultaneously to describe each one
Colorgender: a gender associated with one or more colors and the feelings, hues, emotions, and/or objects associated with that color; may be used like pinkgender, bluegender, yellowgender
Commogender: when you know you aren’t cisgender, but you settled with your assigned gender for the time being
Condigender: a gender that is only felt during certain circumstances
Deliciagender: from the Latin word delicia meaning “favorite”, meaning the feeling of having more than one simultaneous gender yet preferring one that fits better
Demifluid: the feeling your gender being fluid throughout all the demigenders; the feeling of having multiple genders, some static and some fluid
Demiflux: the feeling of having multiple genders, some static and some fluctuating
Demigender: a gender that is partially one gender and partially another
Domgender: having more than one gender yet one being more dominant than the others
Demi-vapor (term coined by @cotton-blossom-jellyfish): Continuously drifting to other genders, feeling spiritually transcendental when doing so while having a clear -slightly blurred- inner visual of your genders, transitions, and positive emotions. Tied to Demi-Smoke.
Demi-smoke (term coined by @cotton-blossom-jellyfish): A transcendental, spiritual gender roughly drifting to other genders that are unable to be foreseen and understood, shrouded in darkness within your inner visual. Elevating through mystery. Caused by a lack of inner interpretation and dark emotional states. Tied to Demi-Vapor.
Duragender: from the Latin word dura meaning “long-lasting”, meaning a subcategory of multigender in which one gender is more identifiable, long lasting, and prominent than the other genders
Egogender: a gender that is so personal to your experience that it can only be described as “you”
Epicene: sometimes used synonymously with the adjective “androgynous”; the feeling either having or not displaying characteristics of both or either binary gender; sometimes used to describe feminine male identifying individuals
Espigender: a gender that is related to being a spirit or exists on a higher or extradimensional plane
Exgender: the outright refusal to accept or identify in, on, or around the gender spectrum
Existigender: a gender that only exists or feels present when thought about or when a conscious effort is made to notice it
Femfluid: having fluctuating or fluid gender feelings that are limited to feminine genders
Femgender: a nonbinary gender which is feminine in nature
Fluidflux: the feeling of being fluid between two or more genders that also fluctuate in intensity; a combination of genderfluid and genderflux
Gemigender: having two opposite genders that work together, being fluid and flux together
Genderblank: a gender that can only be described as a blank space; when gender is called into question, all that comes to mind is a blank space
Genderflow: a gender that is fluid between infinite feelings
Genderfluid: the feeling of fluidity within your gender identity; feeling a different gender as time passes or as situations change; not restricted to any number of genders
Genderflux: the feeling of your gender fluctuating in intensity; like genderfluid but between one gender and agender
Genderfuzz: coined by lolzmelmel; the feeling of having more than one gender that are somehow blurred together to the point of not being able to distinguish or identify individual genders; synonymous with blurgender
Gender Neutral: the feeling of having a neutral gender, whether somewhere in between masculine and feminine or a third gender that is separate from the binary; often paired with neutrois
Genderpunk: a gender identity that actively resists gender norms
Genderqueer: originally used as an umbrella term for nonbinary individuals; may be used as an identity; describes a nonbinary gender regardless of whether the individual is masculine or feminine leaning
Genderwitched: a gender in which one is intrigued or entranced by the idea of a particular gender, but is not certain that they are actually feeling it
Girlflux: when one feels mostly or all female most of the time but experiences fluctuating intensities of female identity
Glassgender: a gender that is very sensitive and fragile
Glimragender: a faintly shining, wavering gender
Greygender: having a gender that is mostly outside of the binary but is weak and can barely be felt
Gyragender: having multiple genders but understanding none of them
Healgender: a gender that once realized, brings lots of peace, clarity, security, and creativity to the individual’s mind
Heliogender: a gender that is warm and burning
Hemigender: a gender that is half one gender and half something else; one or both halves may be identifiable genders
Horogender: a gender that changes over time with the core feeling remaining the same
Hydrogender: a gender which shares qualities with water
Imperigender: a fluid gender that can be controlled by the individual
Intergender: the feeling of gender falling somewhere on the spectrum between masculine and feminine; note: do not confuse with intersex
Juxera: a feminine gender similar to girl, but on a separate plane and off to itself
Libragender: a gender that feels agender but has a strong connection to another gender
Magigender: a gender that is mostly gender and the rest is something else
Mascfluid: A gender that is fluid in nature, and restricted only to masculine genders
Mascgender: a non-binary gender which is masculine in nature.
Maverique: taken from the word maverick; the feeling of having a gender that is separate from masculinity, femininity, and neutrality, but is not agender; a form of third gender
Mirrorgender: a gender that changes to fit the people around you
Molligender: a gender that is soft, subtle, and subdued
Multigender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand omnigender
Nanogender: feeling a small part of one gender with the rest being something else
Neutrois: the feeling of having a neutral gender; sometimes a lack of gender that leads to feeling neutral
Nonbinary: originally an umbrella term for any gender outside the binary of cisgenders; may be used as an individual identity; occasionally used alongside of genderqueer
Omnigender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand polygender
Oneirogender: coined by anonymous, “being agender, but having recurring fantasies or daydreams of being a certain gender without the dysphoria or desire to actually be that gender day-to-day”
Pangender: the feeling of having every gender; this is considered problematic by some communities and thus has been used as the concept of relating in some way to all genders as opposed to containing every gender identity; only applies to genders within one’s own culture
Paragender: the feeling very near one gender and partially something else which keeps you from feeling fully that gender
Perigender: identifying with a gender but not as a gender
Polygender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand omnigender
Proxvir: a masculine gender similar to boy, but on a separate plane and off to itself
Quoigender: feeling as if the concept of gender is inapplicable or nonsensical to one’s self
Subgender: mostly agender with a bit of another gender
Surgender: having a gender that is 100% one gender but with more of another gender added on top of that
Systemgender: a gender that is the sum of all the genders within a multiple or median system
Tragender: a gender that stretches over the whole spectrum of genders
Transgender: any gender identity that transcends or does not align with your assigned gender or society’s idea of gender; the feeling of being any gender that does not match your assigned gender
Trigender: the feeling of having three simultaneous or fluctuating genders
Vapogender: a gender that sort of feels like smoke; can be seen on a shallow level but once you go deeper, it disappears and you are left with no gender and only tiny wisps of what you thought it was
Venngender: when two genders overlap creating an entirely new gender; like a venn diagram
Verangender: a gender that seems to shift/change the moment it is identified
Vibragender: a gender that is usually one stable gender but will occasionally changes or fluctuate before stabilizing again
Vocigender: a gender that is weak or hollow



:ilt:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Genuine trannies I have time for, if you're born a man but in every aspect feel that you should be a woman. That's an issue, and if often comes with depression and suicide bids even when they are "reassigned"

These other people though, genderfluid genderqueer ponces....they can fuck off

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Daytime TV is odd.

Apparently there are at least 58 gender identities.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Colin_Farrel-Disgusted.gif

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

In other news, one for you NQ!

http://www.wimp.com/alexa-are-you-connected-to-the-cia/

:lol:

It's been fixed now - boooooo.

Now it answers, "No, that's Facebook you are thinking of... Dave."

[Niall_Quinn]

The Gender Spectrum:

Abimegender: a gender that is profound, deep, and infinite; meant to resemble when one mirror is reflecting into another mirror creating an infinite paradox
Adamasgender: a gender which refuses to be categorized
Aerogender: a gender that is influenced by your surroundings
Aesthetigender: a gender that is derived from an aesthetic; also known as videgender
Affectugender: a gender that is affected by mood swings
Agender: the feeling of no gender/absence of gender or neutral gender
Agenderflux: being mostly agender except having small shifts towards other genders making them demigenders (because of the constancy of being agender)
Alexigender: a gender that is fluid between more than one gender but the individual cannot tell what those genders are
Aliusgender: a gender which is removed from common gender descriptors and guidelines
Amaregender: a gender that changes depending on who you’re in love with
Ambigender: defined as having the feeling of two genders simultaneously without fluctuation; meant to reflect the concept of being ambidextrous, only with gender
Ambonec: identifying as both man and woman, yet neither at the same time
Amicagender: a gender that changes depending on which friend you’re with
Androgyne: sometimes used in the case of “androgynous presentation”; describes the feeling of being a mix of both masculine and feminine (and sometimes neutral) gender qualities
Anesigender: feeling like a certain gender yet being more comfortable identifying with another
Angenital: a desire to be without primary sexual characteristics, without necessarily being genderless; one may be both angenital and identify as any other gender alongside
Anogender: a gender that fades in and out but always comes back to the same feeling
Anongender: a gender that is unknown to both yourself and others
Antegender: a protean gender which has the potential to be anything, but is formless and motionless, and therefore, does not manifest as any particular gender
Anxiegender: a gender that is affected by anxiety
Apagender: a feeling of apathy towards ones gender which leads to them not looking any further into it
Apconsugender: a gender where you know what it isn’t, but not what it is; the gender is hiding itself from you
Astergender: a gender that feels bright and celestial
Astralgender: a gender that feels connected to space
(POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING) Autigender: a gender that can only be understood in the context of being autistic
Autogender: a gender experience that is deeply personal to oneself
Axigender: when a person experiences two genders that sit on opposite ends of an axis; one being agender and the other being any other gender; these genders are experienced one at a time with no overlapping and with very short transition time.
Bigender: the feeling of having two genders either at the same time or separately; usually used to describe feeling “traditionally male” and “traditionally female”, but does not have to
Biogender: a gender that feels connected to nature in some way
Blurgender: the feeling of having more than one gender that are somehow blurred together to the point of not being able to distinguish or identify individual genders; synonymous with genderfuzz
Boyflux: when one feels mostly or all male most of the time but experience fluctuating intensity of male identity
Burstgender: and gender that comes in intense bursts of feeling and quickly fades back to the original state
Caelgender: a gender which shares qualities with outer space or has the aesthetic of space, stars, nebulas, etc.
Cassgender: the feeling of gender is unimportant to you
Cassflux: when the level of indifference towards your gender fluctuates
Cavusgender: for people with depression; when you feel one gender when not depressed and another when depressed
Cendgender: when your gender changes between one and its opposite
Ceterofluid: when you are ceterogender and your feelings fluctuate between masculine, feminine, and neutral
Ceterogender: a nonbinary gender with specific masculine, feminine, or neutral feelings
Cisgender: the feeling of being the gender you were assigned at birth, all the time (assigned (fe)male/feeling (fe)male)
Cloudgender: a gender that cannot be fully realized or seen clearly due to depersonalization/derealization disorder
Collgender: the feeling of having too many genders simultaneously to describe each one
Colorgender: a gender associated with one or more colors and the feelings, hues, emotions, and/or objects associated with that color; may be used like pinkgender, bluegender, yellowgender
Commogender: when you know you aren’t cisgender, but you settled with your assigned gender for the time being
Condigender: a gender that is only felt during certain circumstances
Deliciagender: from the Latin word delicia meaning “favorite”, meaning the feeling of having more than one simultaneous gender yet preferring one that fits better
Demifluid: the feeling your gender being fluid throughout all the demigenders; the feeling of having multiple genders, some static and some fluid
Demiflux: the feeling of having multiple genders, some static and some fluctuating
Demigender: a gender that is partially one gender and partially another
Domgender: having more than one gender yet one being more dominant than the others
Demi-vapor (term coined by @cotton-blossom-jellyfish): Continuously drifting to other genders, feeling spiritually transcendental when doing so while having a clear -slightly blurred- inner visual of your genders, transitions, and positive emotions. Tied to Demi-Smoke.
Demi-smoke (term coined by @cotton-blossom-jellyfish): A transcendental, spiritual gender roughly drifting to other genders that are unable to be foreseen and understood, shrouded in darkness within your inner visual. Elevating through mystery. Caused by a lack of inner interpretation and dark emotional states. Tied to Demi-Vapor.
Duragender: from the Latin word dura meaning “long-lasting”, meaning a subcategory of multigender in which one gender is more identifiable, long lasting, and prominent than the other genders
Egogender: a gender that is so personal to your experience that it can only be described as “you”
Epicene: sometimes used synonymously with the adjective “androgynous”; the feeling either having or not displaying characteristics of both or either binary gender; sometimes used to describe feminine male identifying individuals
Espigender: a gender that is related to being a spirit or exists on a higher or extradimensional plane
Exgender: the outright refusal to accept or identify in, on, or around the gender spectrum
Existigender: a gender that only exists or feels present when thought about or when a conscious effort is made to notice it
Femfluid: having fluctuating or fluid gender feelings that are limited to feminine genders
Femgender: a nonbinary gender which is feminine in nature
Fluidflux: the feeling of being fluid between two or more genders that also fluctuate in intensity; a combination of genderfluid and genderflux
Gemigender: having two opposite genders that work together, being fluid and flux together
Genderblank: a gender that can only be described as a blank space; when gender is called into question, all that comes to mind is a blank space
Genderflow: a gender that is fluid between infinite feelings
Genderfluid: the feeling of fluidity within your gender identity; feeling a different gender as time passes or as situations change; not restricted to any number of genders
Genderflux: the feeling of your gender fluctuating in intensity; like genderfluid but between one gender and agender
Genderfuzz: coined by lolzmelmel; the feeling of having more than one gender that are somehow blurred together to the point of not being able to distinguish or identify individual genders; synonymous with blurgender
Gender Neutral: the feeling of having a neutral gender, whether somewhere in between masculine and feminine or a third gender that is separate from the binary; often paired with neutrois
Genderpunk: a gender identity that actively resists gender norms
Genderqueer: originally used as an umbrella term for nonbinary individuals; may be used as an identity; describes a nonbinary gender regardless of whether the individual is masculine or feminine leaning
Genderwitched: a gender in which one is intrigued or entranced by the idea of a particular gender, but is not certain that they are actually feeling it
Girlflux: when one feels mostly or all female most of the time but experiences fluctuating intensities of female identity
Glassgender: a gender that is very sensitive and fragile
Glimragender: a faintly shining, wavering gender
Greygender: having a gender that is mostly outside of the binary but is weak and can barely be felt
Gyragender: having multiple genders but understanding none of them
Healgender: a gender that once realized, brings lots of peace, clarity, security, and creativity to the individual’s mind
Heliogender: a gender that is warm and burning
Hemigender: a gender that is half one gender and half something else; one or both halves may be identifiable genders
Horogender: a gender that changes over time with the core feeling remaining the same
Hydrogender: a gender which shares qualities with water
Imperigender: a fluid gender that can be controlled by the individual
Intergender: the feeling of gender falling somewhere on the spectrum between masculine and feminine; note: do not confuse with intersex
Juxera: a feminine gender similar to girl, but on a separate plane and off to itself
Libragender: a gender that feels agender but has a strong connection to another gender
Magigender: a gender that is mostly gender and the rest is something else
Mascfluid: A gender that is fluid in nature, and restricted only to masculine genders
Mascgender: a non-binary gender which is masculine in nature.
Maverique: taken from the word maverick; the feeling of having a gender that is separate from masculinity, femininity, and neutrality, but is not agender; a form of third gender
Mirrorgender: a gender that changes to fit the people around you
Molligender: a gender that is soft, subtle, and subdued
Multigender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand omnigender
Nanogender: feeling a small part of one gender with the rest being something else
Neutrois: the feeling of having a neutral gender; sometimes a lack of gender that leads to feeling neutral
Nonbinary: originally an umbrella term for any gender outside the binary of cisgenders; may be used as an individual identity; occasionally used alongside of genderqueer
Omnigender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand polygender
Oneirogender: coined by anonymous, “being agender, but having recurring fantasies or daydreams of being a certain gender without the dysphoria or desire to actually be that gender day-to-day”
Pangender: the feeling of having every gender; this is considered problematic by some communities and thus has been used as the concept of relating in some way to all genders as opposed to containing every gender identity; only applies to genders within one’s own culture
Paragender: the feeling very near one gender and partially something else which keeps you from feeling fully that gender
Perigender: identifying with a gender but not as a gender
Polygender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand omnigender
Proxvir: a masculine gender similar to boy, but on a separate plane and off to itself
Quoigender: feeling as if the concept of gender is inapplicable or nonsensical to one’s self
Subgender: mostly agender with a bit of another gender
Surgender: having a gender that is 100% one gender but with more of another gender added on top of that
Systemgender: a gender that is the sum of all the genders within a multiple or median system
Tragender: a gender that stretches over the whole spectrum of genders
Transgender: any gender identity that transcends or does not align with your assigned gender or society’s idea of gender; the feeling of being any gender that does not match your assigned gender
Trigender: the feeling of having three simultaneous or fluctuating genders
Vapogender: a gender that sort of feels like smoke; can be seen on a shallow level but once you go deeper, it disappears and you are left with no gender and only tiny wisps of what you thought it was
Venngender: when two genders overlap creating an entirely new gender; like a venn diagram
Verangender: a gender that seems to shift/change the moment it is identified
Vibragender: a gender that is usually one stable gender but will occasionally changes or fluctuate before stabilizing again
Vocigender: a gender that is weak or hollow



:ilt:

They seem to have missed out Male and Female - the fucking queer cunts.

[Niall_Quinn]

Mascfluid: A gender that is fluid in nature, and restricted only to masculine genders

First of all, that's discrimination against feminine genders. Next, how come you need to use, "masculine", to define one of your stupid made up genders, you arse stabbing cunts?

[Niall_Quinn]

Looking forward to see her reaction to this :ninja:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617


"The only person who is responsible for rape, is the rapist.

These fucking liberals. YES, FFS - the rapist is responsible. But hasn't a rapist already, kind of, admitted he/she/it/them/patoooooo-ngy-ngy-ngy doesn't give a shit what you think?

[Letters]

Genuine trannies I have time for, if you're born a man but in every aspect feel that you should be a woman. That's an issue, and if often comes with depression and suicide bids even when they are "reassigned"

These other people though, genderfluid genderqueer ponces....they can fuck off
Think I've seen that film.
It is an issue but IMO it's a psychological one, not one to be fixed by lopping their cocks off.

[Niall_Quinn]

Think I've seen that film.
It is an issue but IMO it's a psychological one, not one to be fixed by lopping their cocks off.

You're just a stinking heterosexual. Weirdo.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bet you are white as well. You sound like it.

[Niall_Quinn]

And male. Eeeeeeeeeeeewwww....

[Letters]

Guilty as charged on all counts :(

[Letters]

I've decided I don't identify with the species I was assigned at birth.
Actually, I'm species fluid

Don't you oppress me :angry:

[Niall_Quinn]

If nature can be unassigned or reassigned, can less tangible, man made statuses be similarly modified?

I'm reassigning my status as 'citizen'. I now feel I'm a Fluiden. This means I don't want to be discriminated against or punished when I accept the benefits of citizenry but don't abide by the rules. This is quite exciting. I have always wanted to be a non-citizen, but now I see I can have my cake and eat it. This equality thing is great. If the tax man chases me I'll tell him he's repressing my rights and being discriminatory. That should be enough to get him to piss off, don't you think?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why is the tax man chasing you?

[Niall_Quinn]

Why is the tax man chasing you?

Well he's not - yet. I haven't gone full fluidic, I'm working up to it. Need to get a Liberal to English dictionary and learn the lingo so I can spot when I'm being oppressed.

[Marc Overmars]

The Gender Spectrum:

Abimegender: a gender that is profound, deep, and infinite; meant to resemble when one mirror is reflecting into another mirror creating an infinite paradox
Adamasgender: a gender which refuses to be categorized
Aerogender: a gender that is influenced by your surroundings
Aesthetigender: a gender that is derived from an aesthetic; also known as videgender
Affectugender: a gender that is affected by mood swings
Agender: the feeling of no gender/absence of gender or neutral gender
Agenderflux: being mostly agender except having small shifts towards other genders making them demigenders (because of the constancy of being agender)
Alexigender: a gender that is fluid between more than one gender but the individual cannot tell what those genders are
Aliusgender: a gender which is removed from common gender descriptors and guidelines
Amaregender: a gender that changes depending on who you’re in love with
Ambigender: defined as having the feeling of two genders simultaneously without fluctuation; meant to reflect the concept of being ambidextrous, only with gender
Ambonec: identifying as both man and woman, yet neither at the same time
Amicagender: a gender that changes depending on which friend you’re with
Androgyne: sometimes used in the case of “androgynous presentation”; describes the feeling of being a mix of both masculine and feminine (and sometimes neutral) gender qualities
Anesigender: feeling like a certain gender yet being more comfortable identifying with another
Angenital: a desire to be without primary sexual characteristics, without necessarily being genderless; one may be both angenital and identify as any other gender alongside
Anogender: a gender that fades in and out but always comes back to the same feeling
Anongender: a gender that is unknown to both yourself and others
Antegender: a protean gender which has the potential to be anything, but is formless and motionless, and therefore, does not manifest as any particular gender
Anxiegender: a gender that is affected by anxiety
Apagender: a feeling of apathy towards ones gender which leads to them not looking any further into it
Apconsugender: a gender where you know what it isn’t, but not what it is; the gender is hiding itself from you
Astergender: a gender that feels bright and celestial
Astralgender: a gender that feels connected to space
(POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING) Autigender: a gender that can only be understood in the context of being autistic
Autogender: a gender experience that is deeply personal to oneself
Axigender: when a person experiences two genders that sit on opposite ends of an axis; one being agender and the other being any other gender; these genders are experienced one at a time with no overlapping and with very short transition time.
Bigender: the feeling of having two genders either at the same time or separately; usually used to describe feeling “traditionally male” and “traditionally female”, but does not have to
Biogender: a gender that feels connected to nature in some way
Blurgender: the feeling of having more than one gender that are somehow blurred together to the point of not being able to distinguish or identify individual genders; synonymous with genderfuzz
Boyflux: when one feels mostly or all male most of the time but experience fluctuating intensity of male identity
Burstgender: and gender that comes in intense bursts of feeling and quickly fades back to the original state
Caelgender: a gender which shares qualities with outer space or has the aesthetic of space, stars, nebulas, etc.
Cassgender: the feeling of gender is unimportant to you
Cassflux: when the level of indifference towards your gender fluctuates
Cavusgender: for people with depression; when you feel one gender when not depressed and another when depressed
Cendgender: when your gender changes between one and its opposite
Ceterofluid: when you are ceterogender and your feelings fluctuate between masculine, feminine, and neutral
Ceterogender: a nonbinary gender with specific masculine, feminine, or neutral feelings
Cisgender: the feeling of being the gender you were assigned at birth, all the time (assigned (fe)male/feeling (fe)male)
Cloudgender: a gender that cannot be fully realized or seen clearly due to depersonalization/derealization disorder
Collgender: the feeling of having too many genders simultaneously to describe each one
Colorgender: a gender associated with one or more colors and the feelings, hues, emotions, and/or objects associated with that color; may be used like pinkgender, bluegender, yellowgender
Commogender: when you know you aren’t cisgender, but you settled with your assigned gender for the time being
Condigender: a gender that is only felt during certain circumstances
Deliciagender: from the Latin word delicia meaning “favorite”, meaning the feeling of having more than one simultaneous gender yet preferring one that fits better
Demifluid: the feeling your gender being fluid throughout all the demigenders; the feeling of having multiple genders, some static and some fluid
Demiflux: the feeling of having multiple genders, some static and some fluctuating
Demigender: a gender that is partially one gender and partially another
Domgender: having more than one gender yet one being more dominant than the others
Demi-vapor (term coined by @cotton-blossom-jellyfish): Continuously drifting to other genders, feeling spiritually transcendental when doing so while having a clear -slightly blurred- inner visual of your genders, transitions, and positive emotions. Tied to Demi-Smoke.
Demi-smoke (term coined by @cotton-blossom-jellyfish): A transcendental, spiritual gender roughly drifting to other genders that are unable to be foreseen and understood, shrouded in darkness within your inner visual. Elevating through mystery. Caused by a lack of inner interpretation and dark emotional states. Tied to Demi-Vapor.
Duragender: from the Latin word dura meaning “long-lasting”, meaning a subcategory of multigender in which one gender is more identifiable, long lasting, and prominent than the other genders
Egogender: a gender that is so personal to your experience that it can only be described as “you”
Epicene: sometimes used synonymously with the adjective “androgynous”; the feeling either having or not displaying characteristics of both or either binary gender; sometimes used to describe feminine male identifying individuals
Espigender: a gender that is related to being a spirit or exists on a higher or extradimensional plane
Exgender: the outright refusal to accept or identify in, on, or around the gender spectrum
Existigender: a gender that only exists or feels present when thought about or when a conscious effort is made to notice it
Femfluid: having fluctuating or fluid gender feelings that are limited to feminine genders
Femgender: a nonbinary gender which is feminine in nature
Fluidflux: the feeling of being fluid between two or more genders that also fluctuate in intensity; a combination of genderfluid and genderflux
Gemigender: having two opposite genders that work together, being fluid and flux together
Genderblank: a gender that can only be described as a blank space; when gender is called into question, all that comes to mind is a blank space
Genderflow: a gender that is fluid between infinite feelings
Genderfluid: the feeling of fluidity within your gender identity; feeling a different gender as time passes or as situations change; not restricted to any number of genders
Genderflux: the feeling of your gender fluctuating in intensity; like genderfluid but between one gender and agender
Genderfuzz: coined by lolzmelmel; the feeling of having more than one gender that are somehow blurred together to the point of not being able to distinguish or identify individual genders; synonymous with blurgender
Gender Neutral: the feeling of having a neutral gender, whether somewhere in between masculine and feminine or a third gender that is separate from the binary; often paired with neutrois
Genderpunk: a gender identity that actively resists gender norms
Genderqueer: originally used as an umbrella term for nonbinary individuals; may be used as an identity; describes a nonbinary gender regardless of whether the individual is masculine or feminine leaning
Genderwitched: a gender in which one is intrigued or entranced by the idea of a particular gender, but is not certain that they are actually feeling it
Girlflux: when one feels mostly or all female most of the time but experiences fluctuating intensities of female identity
Glassgender: a gender that is very sensitive and fragile
Glimragender: a faintly shining, wavering gender
Greygender: having a gender that is mostly outside of the binary but is weak and can barely be felt
Gyragender: having multiple genders but understanding none of them
Healgender: a gender that once realized, brings lots of peace, clarity, security, and creativity to the individual’s mind
Heliogender: a gender that is warm and burning
Hemigender: a gender that is half one gender and half something else; one or both halves may be identifiable genders
Horogender: a gender that changes over time with the core feeling remaining the same
Hydrogender: a gender which shares qualities with water
Imperigender: a fluid gender that can be controlled by the individual
Intergender: the feeling of gender falling somewhere on the spectrum between masculine and feminine; note: do not confuse with intersex
Juxera: a feminine gender similar to girl, but on a separate plane and off to itself
Libragender: a gender that feels agender but has a strong connection to another gender
Magigender: a gender that is mostly gender and the rest is something else
Mascfluid: A gender that is fluid in nature, and restricted only to masculine genders
Mascgender: a non-binary gender which is masculine in nature.
Maverique: taken from the word maverick; the feeling of having a gender that is separate from masculinity, femininity, and neutrality, but is not agender; a form of third gender
Mirrorgender: a gender that changes to fit the people around you
Molligender: a gender that is soft, subtle, and subdued
Multigender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand omnigender
Nanogender: feeling a small part of one gender with the rest being something else
Neutrois: the feeling of having a neutral gender; sometimes a lack of gender that leads to feeling neutral
Nonbinary: originally an umbrella term for any gender outside the binary of cisgenders; may be used as an individual identity; occasionally used alongside of genderqueer
Omnigender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand polygender
Oneirogender: coined by anonymous, “being agender, but having recurring fantasies or daydreams of being a certain gender without the dysphoria or desire to actually be that gender day-to-day”
Pangender: the feeling of having every gender; this is considered problematic by some communities and thus has been used as the concept of relating in some way to all genders as opposed to containing every gender identity; only applies to genders within one’s own culture
Paragender: the feeling very near one gender and partially something else which keeps you from feeling fully that gender
Perigender: identifying with a gender but not as a gender
Polygender: the feeling of having more than one simultaneous or fluctuating gender; simultaneous with multigenderand omnigender
Proxvir: a masculine gender similar to boy, but on a separate plane and off to itself
Quoigender: feeling as if the concept of gender is inapplicable or nonsensical to one’s self
Subgender: mostly agender with a bit of another gender
Surgender: having a gender that is 100% one gender but with more of another gender added on top of that
Systemgender: a gender that is the sum of all the genders within a multiple or median system
Tragender: a gender that stretches over the whole spectrum of genders
Transgender: any gender identity that transcends or does not align with your assigned gender or society’s idea of gender; the feeling of being any gender that does not match your assigned gender
Trigender: the feeling of having three simultaneous or fluctuating genders
Vapogender: a gender that sort of feels like smoke; can be seen on a shallow level but once you go deeper, it disappears and you are left with no gender and only tiny wisps of what you thought it was
Venngender: when two genders overlap creating an entirely new gender; like a venn diagram
Verangender: a gender that seems to shift/change the moment it is identified
Vibragender: a gender that is usually one stable gender but will occasionally changes or fluctuate before stabilizing again
Vocigender: a gender that is weak or hollow



:ilt:

You are either a male or a female.

Fucking freaks.

[GP]

You are either a male or a female.

Fucking freaks.

CIS male scum

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

*POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING*

[GP]

So the new girl in the office just busted me googling her name :lol:

[Letters]

:lol:

PIcs or GTFO, as the cool kids are saying.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So the new girl in the office just busted me googling her name :lol:

What's the matter with you?

You wait until you get home, or at least until you can take your smart phone into the toilet cubicles

[GP]

In my defence, she was telling me that she is a part-time actor, so I just wanted to see if she was in anything I might have seen.

She's also quite attractive.

[Letters]

Pics.
Or GTFO :angry:


*imagines GP posting pictures just as girl walks past his desk again*

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In my defence, she was telling me that she is a part-time actor, so I just wanted to see if she was in anything I might have seen.

She's also quite attractive.

No there's no defence. That's a major fail.

Internet stalking is a precision art.

What you've done is the equivalent of trying to fix a broken watch with a chisel and hammer

[Letters]

FB is where it's at for internet stalking.
What's that, friend of a friend? A public album called "Ibiza 2015"? :ninja:

[LDG]

FB is where it's at for internet stalking.
What's that, friend of a friend? A public album called "Ibiza 2015"? :ninja:

GW is BACK!! :woohoo:

This is more like it.

[Letters]

:lol: There's not much to talk about in the football section.

[Nozza!]

GW is BACK!! :woohoo:

This is more like it.

Oi, geezer, are you sure you it's not a death rattle...

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

PIcs or GTFO, as the cool kids are saying.

Why are you saying it then?

[Letters]

<_<

I'm trying to fit in :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

<_<

I'm trying to fit in :(

Just get with a girl who is a bit older then

[Letters]

:sick:

[WMUG]

AFC WIMBLEDON :bow:

[Letters]

I suppose as my in-laws are from MK I should support the Dons but I don't really care.
Been to see the Dons play a few times: Nice stadium, the team...not so much.



Bit like Arsenal :(

[GP]

Just applied for a new job

https://www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/apprenticeship/-45070

[Letters]

Ooh, you're an artist. Laa-de-daa! :lol:

[GP]

Walcott is dead!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39307148

[Niall_Quinn]

Walcott is dead!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39307148

Big shame because Southgate had selected him.

[Letters]

As is Chuck Berry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39318602

:rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

People die. Even famous ones.

Except Blair. He never seems to die.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Oh, he's dead alright.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh, he's dead alright.

Don't tease me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Martin McGuiness is dead, by no means top of my wish list but I'll still consider it good news

Heart defect when it should have been a bullet to the cerebellum

[Niall_Quinn]

2017 :bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I won't get that excited until he's joined by Joseph Ratzinger and Robert Mugabe

[Niall_Quinn]

Tony Blair, GHW Bush, Henry Kissinger, that guy in the newsagent who wouldn't sell me ciggies.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Tony Blair, GHW Bush, Henry Kissinger, that guy in the newsagent who wouldn't sell me ciggies.

Well there's always different people, people want dead. Kissinger would be another one on my hope they dies list though

[GP]

Farage, May, Gove, Johnson, Letters, Le Pen, Bannon, Hopkins...

[Letters]

:gp:






Wait...what? Screw you :angry:


Morgan, Trump, Forsyth obvs.

[Niall_Quinn]

Farage, May, Gove, Johnson, Letters, Le Pen, Bannon, Hopkins...

You have Le Pen, Farage and Bannon mixing with some pretty unsavoury characters there.

[Niall_Quinn]

Kroenke.

[Niall_Quinn]

Which leaves Kroenke Jr :doh:

They have thought of everything :ilt:

[GP]

Kroenke Jr, Kroenke Jr Jr, Kroenke Jr Jr Jr

[GP]

Usmanov, Collins, Blunt, Coldplay

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Zuma, Assad, Putin, Netanyahu, Salmond, Galloway, Adams

Oooh Sarkozy, Chirac and Berlusconi as well

I don't want Farage, Trump, Le Pen etc to die.....i want them to remain in the spot light as long as possible so that they will inevitably discredit themselves.

[WMUG]

Which leaves Kroenke Jr :doh:

They have thought of everything :ilt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig_qpNfXHIU

[Letters]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39342698

Come on 2017, you can do better than that :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

GW is fargin broken init! Fix it fam.

[Letters]

Jof is looking at it. Thank you for your interest in our affairs.

Adulting the shizzle out of today.
Just mowed my own lawn for the first time.
:cool:

[Niall_Quinn]

Same shit every year. Always 2% away from having a server that can handle more than 3 users. Meanwhile the advertising cash and the sponsorship deals roll in. Alright for some.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger has killed GW :rose:

[GP]

He's not that kind of Manager.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's not that kind of Manager.

True that. It's related to Arsenal so it's valid. But if it wasn't related to Arsenal then no way would I, or the media, accept that sorry and lame excuse. Just so you know.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh christ, that awful woman has come back into the office with her offspring

I'm still fairly sure she has no idea who it's father is.....

She's already permanently psychologically damaged her first child....what more does she want.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh christ, that awful woman has come back into the office with her offspring

I'm still fairly sure she has no idea who it's father is.....

She's already permanently psychologically damaged her first child....what more does she want.

Lucky escape for you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Lucky escape for you.

there are certain things that are just too sick to even joke about :fury:

[Marc Overmars]

Damn, this place is dead as hell.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

International week and during a time when being an Arsenal fan is shitter than at any point in living memory.

Not surprising

[Niall_Quinn]

We are 2% away from giving a fuck.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I've had home internet since 1997. In my Internet history, this is as shit as it has been.

I was going to ramble on about it not being able to get shittier than this but now I'm off on a tangent. I've been an Arsenal fan since 1979 and this is as shit as it has ever been and there is no sign of anything changing. Ever.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I've had home internet since 1997. In my Internet history, this is as shit as it has been.

I was going to ramble on about it not being able to get shittier than this but now I'm off on a tangent. I've been an Arsenal fan since 1979 and this is as shit as it has ever been and there is no sign of anything changing. Ever.

I wasn't even born in 1979, GG is the first Arsenal manager I remember

[Niall_Quinn]

Why don't we all change our user names to variations on Niall Quinn? It probably won't provide literally endless fun but it will give the place a boost it needs.

[GP]

Neal_Quim please

[Niall_Quinn]

You see. This is so much better already.

[Niall_Quinn]

Scots vote to do the independence thing again. That fish woman they put in charge, for whatever reason, wants to gain independence from Britain so she can hand it to Europe.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd rather the Europeans than the Tory cunts.

[Letters]

They were always going to push for a second referendum because the situation has changed although I think May has a point saying they should at least wait till any deal with the EU is decided.

[Letters]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39416869

:cool:


:(

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd rather the Europeans than the Tory cunts.

Why tolerate any of them? That's the bit I don't get. The choice is, either take it in the arse, or if you can't stand the thought of that, you can opt to take it in the arse.

[Niall_Quinn]

They were always going to push for a second referendum because the situation has changed although I think May has a point saying they should at least wait till any deal with the EU is decided.

Nothing has changed. Super rich cunts are still running the planet, with politicians crawling around doing their bidding.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39416869

:cool:


:(

Meanwhile, the pay gap between the average CEO and the average worker has continued to rise, regardless of any and every economic factor. Proving that the science of economics has zero bearing on the economy. The bearing of political economics (aka. propaganda, fake news, blatant lies and institutionalised ignorance) continues to rule the discussion. The tax rate continues to be close on zero for the ultra rich and close to 60% for hard pressed workers who opt to try and eke something out of life. Hermits pay less and that's the class the politicians will use when lying about the true extent of taxation.

Unions are bullshit in the main. They are there to prevent workers gaining a fair share of their labour (which ought to be all of it, but whatever). There are some unions who still give a fuck. Those are the ones the media slaughter and the sheep bray in frustration at. Real unions would just call a general strike and wait until the impossibly fragile grip on power of these few bastards running the show is broken. The super rich rely on us for their unearned wealth. They should be taught some basic manners. Don't look to the unions to do that though.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why tolerate any of them? That's the bit I don't get. The choice is, either take it in the arse, or if you can't stand the thought of that, you can opt to take it in the arse.

Either way, something is going up my arse. My preference is a nicely lubricated European than a cheese riddled stinker of a diseased Tory cock.

[Niall_Quinn]

Either way, something is going up my arse. My preference is a nicely lubricated European than a cheese riddled stinker of a diseased Tory cock.

Gay

[GP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb81D9Sd6Gg

[GP]

Don't forget to set your clocks back 44 years today.

[Letters]

Independence :bow:



:rolleyes:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Don't forget to set your clocks back 44 years today.

That wouldn't be so bad
Music would be better (Led Zepellin would have just released houses of the holy)
We'd still have a manafacturing industry as well

[Marc Overmars]

Fuck sake man, the pound is so shit. Just bought some Euros and Dollars but you get sod all these days.