When will Arteta be sacked by

[Chippy]

The annoying thing is that the Spuds are now only a couple of points behind us and looked bloody good against Villa today. It's all going tits up at the moment.

[IBK]

Thinking about our last few games - and some of our other disappointing results this season, I'm starting to think that an issue is a lack of self-belief. We have seen the manager and his team retreat into their shells when it really counts. We have seen uncharateristic errors at the back, and a lack of composure in front of goal. And we have seen an element of panic when key players go missing...the performance after Big Gabi went off against Liverpool is a good example of this. So is the general reluctance to pass to Nwaneri on Saturday, and our MF in particular not being able to keep the ball/advance properly when chasing a goal.

I am wondering whether our failure to get across the line for the league last season has affected the team's confidence and automatisms? We have debated the fact that Odegard's absense has made us into a 'defend first' outfit that relies on fine margins to prevail when needed. But while any team would miss a key player, wannabe league champions should, and need to find other ways to impose themselves on games. We have done so in fits and starts this season, but I am seeing a team that does not really believe that they can do it, and a manager who is suddenly looking bereft of a real plan. It's fine to look at circumstances and decisions that have gone against us, but Arsenal to me look like a team that is wilting rather than trying to take the game to the opposition, and both Bournemouth and Newcastle played like teams who felt they had little to fear as long as they executed their own game plan.

Arsenal have at times looked brittle throughout Arteta's tenure - and it looks ATM like our players lack the confidence needed to do what is needed.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think you are on to something.

It clearly does seem like the players are all playing with more caution than they did last season especially when they get to the final third. I also think maybe our early success with set pieces and the typical Arteta goals have them thinking that's the only way they can score, especially when they are in an adverse situation.

In the Newcastle game, it was annoying seeing them repeatedly go for crosses when it was clear Pope and their defence had sussed us out.

Yeah, you might say the best chance to equalise came from a cross, but that's the 100th time we had tried. BTW, I think the best chance to equalise was when Saka was finally free thanks to a rare Newcastle lapse, and Trossard missed the most basic of passes.

Whatever it is our players need 5o stop playing with chains on and being robotic.

Saka doesn't have this problem as he's rightly self-confident and he can be the difference. Trossard for some reason has started second guessing himself. Jesus never plays with chains, and it could be argued he has way too much faith in his ability with the kind of subpar end product he delivers.

The only other person who seems not to be affected by this malaise is Nwaneri...and that's because he's fresh, young and has so much to look ahead to. And this is my main gripe with Arteta for the last month. With Odegaard's unforeseen absence, he had the best excuse in the world to properly blood the youngster, and if it did not work out, the poor boy wouldn't have felt bad as he would have known he was only playing because Odegaard was absent. This is something AW would have never missed a chance to do.

This is one of the reasons we must insist that our next coach has bags of experience to fall back on.

[Mac76]

@IBK I think that the reasons you give, along with the refs being so against us, has knocked the wind out of the teams' sails a bit

This is where Arteta's relentless caution and stubbornness can be a hindrance not a help - I think if Nwaneri had been given more chances generally and been started against Newcastle it might have been different - by the time he came on the pattern was set - I think he wasn't quite in phase with everyone which is why he didn't receive the ball more often

I'm worried that Edu going will only make things worse in terms of giving Arteta too much power at the club - we will be in a Wenger situation again if we're not too careful

As fans we need to know there's enough objectivity and experience in other positions at the club to be able to know when Arteta needs to be asked to go or at very least heavily questioned and told to seek advice

[IBK]

I think you are on to something.

It clearly does seem like the players are all playing with more caution than they did last season especially when they get to the final third. I also think maybe our early success with set pieces and the typical Arteta goals have them thinking that's the only way they can score, especially when they are in an adverse situation.

In the Newcastle game, it was annoying seeing them repeatedly go for crosses when it was clear Pope and their defence had sussed us out.

Yeah, you might say the best chance to equalise came from a cross, but that's the 100th time we had tried. BTW, I think the best chance to equalise was when Saka was finally free thanks to a rare Newcastle lapse, and Trossard missed the most basic of passes.

Whatever it is our players need 5o stop playing with chains on and being robotic.

Saka doesn't have this problem as he's rightly self-confident and he can be the difference. Trossard for some reason has started second guessing himself. Jesus never plays with chains, and it could be argued he has way too much faith in his ability with the kind of subpar end product he delivers.

The only other person who seems not to be affected by this malaise is Nwaneri...and that's because he's fresh, young and has so much to look ahead to. And this is my main gripe with Arteta for the last month. With Odegaard's unforeseen absence, he had the best excuse in the world to properly blood the youngster, and if it did not work out, the poor boy wouldn't have felt bad as he would have known he was only playing because Odegaard was absent. This is something AW would have never missed a chance to do.

This is one of the reasons we must insist that our next coach has bags of experience to fall back on.

A good point regarding the robotic nature of our play. Its OK when a very structured method of approaching games yields results. However when it doesn't it becomes very easy to doubt what you are doing. This lack of conviction and enterprise is quite apparent in this current Arsenal team - which is why we pin our hopes on a 17 year old who seems to break the mould, and may explain why the other players seemed to be on a different wavelength. We do seem to be wound too tight ATM.

[IBK]

@IBK I think that the reasons you give, along with the refs being so against us, has knocked the wind out of the teams' sails a bit

This is where Arteta's relentless caution and stubbornness can be a hindrance not a help - I think if Nwaneri had been given more chances generally and been started against Newcastle it might have been different - by the time he came on the pattern was set - I think he wasn't quite in phase with everyone which is why he didn't receive the ball more often

I'm worried that Edu going will only make things worse in terms of giving Arteta too much power at the club - we will be in a Wenger situation again if we're not too careful

As fans we need to know there's enough objectivity and experience in other positions at the club to be able to know when Arteta needs to be asked to go or at very least heavily questioned and told to seek advice

Yes - this is one of my concerns - that it ends up placing too much power/responsibility in Arteta's hands, and removes from the structure someone who can question the manager's decisions.