Brexit - would you change your 2016 vote

[Ollie the Optimist]

I suppose this probably aimed more at leave voters rather than remainers as suspect any who change votes, will be leavers rather than remainers.

If there was a referendum tomorrow, i would probably switch to remain but not because i think the reasons i voted leave in 2016 are wrong, but rather the incompetent idiots who took over have screwed it up so badly.

Personally i still think leaving would be the right thing to do, my concerns in 2016 were that the EU was becoming to big, wanted to be a United States of Europe etc which Junker previously said was his aim. I dont think that is the right thing to be a part of.

That’s not to say the EU is a bad thing, they have done some good things but i think they are trying to reach too far. The countries forming the EU are too diverse for it to really work in my opinion. Just look at the Euro and how different Germany & Greece are and the problems that created. Factors like an EU army are also a concern, the old question of why does a trading block need an army springs to mind.

There are other reasons where they want to move away from countries having a veto and famously ignored Cameron using his veto in 2012 which is not a good sign.

Of course, these are old arguments given we have heard them for several years now but i think are still reasonably valid. I honestly expected Cameron to stay after the referendum and thought he would have been able to to deliver a reasonable compromise so we could leave. We had heard people like Farage or Carswell praise Norway/Switzerland models so if people had got behind those early on, using their own words against them, the betrayal narrative etc might not have got traction and we could have a reasonable exit agreement.

I dont see any benefits to a WTO deal, and these stupid arguments from people like Rees Mogg or Boris about not compromising are stupid. Every trade deal is a compromise. As David Gauke said yesterday in an interview, if you refuse to compromise in any trade deal then there wont be any deals.

This comes back to the question in the title, would i change my vote. Yes but only because I’ve seen what happened when the idiots took over not because i think the reasons i voted leave in the first place are wrong.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wouldn't change anything. I didn't vote and would never willingly legitimise such a process. I was momentarily tempted at one point, given the gravity of the issue. But you can't get a little bit pregnant. It suits my interests that more than half the mob voted to halt further EU integration, but it's a small relief in a much bigger battle. The real question being put to the British people was, a) Do you want to be dictated to by a small group of self-interested pricks that you stand a limited chance of removing from power, b) Do you want to be dictated to by a large group of self-interested pricks that you stand no chance of removing from power? The former is the better of two highly undesirable options.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I’ve changed my mind to the extent that I just want this to end.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I’ve changed my mind to the extent that I just want this to end.

[GP]

I haven't changed my mind.

It was a stupid idea then, it's looks even worse now.

[Niall_Quinn]

I’ve changed my mind to the extent that I just want this to end.

Nobody even cares any more, except those who stood to gain one way or another. And that ain't the people, one way or another. Best that can happen now is no deal, so at least a principle can been achieved. But it won't make a blind bit of difference to Dick and Jane on the ground. Covid taught us that. We have much bigger fights than Brexit to attend to. And we won't.

[Letters]

Anyone have any thoughts about who is being unreasonable in the negotiations?
What is preventing a deal happening?

[Ollie the Optimist]

Both sides have been unreasonable at times imo.

It appears now that only thing stopping a deal is fishing rights which is fucking stupid. The french are saying that they must have the same rights to our waters as they have now or they will not agree to a deal. Well on the 1st January in a no deal, they lose all rights to our waters and any fishing in them will be illegal so face arrest etc etc.

On our side, we seem to willing to have a no deal to protect an industry that produces less to GDP then Harrods does.

[Letters]

I must admit I haven't looked into this in any detail, I'm sick of the whole thing.
Aren't we asking for frictionless trade like we have now.
And they're asking for fishing rights in exchange which, as you say, is such a tiny piece of our economy as to render it a stupid sticking point apart from the "principle".

They have no right to fish in our waters if we're not in the EU but we have no right to frictionless trade if we're not, so...

It's probably a bit more complicated than that, but I was reading something along those lines.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Both sides have been unreasonable at times imo.

It appears now that only thing stopping a deal is fishing rights which is fucking stupid. The french are saying that they must have the same rights to our waters as they have now or they will not agree to a deal. Well on the 1st January in a no deal, they lose all rights to our waters and any fishing in them will be illegal so face arrest etc etc.

On our side, we seem to willing to have a no deal to protect an industry that produces less to GDP then Harrods does.

We’ve moved beyond any economic rationale, to pure politics.

It is unlikely to end well.