What exactly are we expecting to happen this Summer?

[LDG]

Football fans by and large live in hope.

Wenger is one of the top managers about and fans do see that.

What gooners are pissed off with, is that the same mistakes are being made season after season, and regardless of how good Wenger has been in the past, and could be if he got his head out of his arse, the voice of frustration grows ever louder.

We were questioning whether we had come to the tipping point this time last year, and it was still on the side of Wenger for the most part.

I would say it's tipped the other way now. Paying fans are just fed up with the embarrassment, the rookie mistakes and the Bullshit.

Most of all, they see their club moving further and further out of touch with John the gooner in the stand.

[Alan B'stard]

here is my theory - while we re still trying to nickel and dime our way along and occasionally get a sniff of a trophy there is nobody who can come in and be better at arsenal than wenger at:
(a) putting a team together without a huge upfront cost
(b) wheeling and dealing
(c) selling the future to his loyal fans.

so, if we are still in austerity mode or - more worryingly - thats all we will ever be in since we are run as a business first and football cclub secoind... nobody can operate at this level an deliver the same bang for your buck. It would be nonsense to sack wenger and pretend that a mourinho or hiddink (say) could do that narrowly defined arsenal specific job better than him.

However if we are suppose to come out of hibernation and start swinging the bat, along the lines of 'heres a load of cash. dont worry about profits mr manager, just win me something or collect your p45..."

..then Wenger would have no clue what to do when he is buying 20-40million pound players and faced with moulding those egos into a back to back title / CL winning team. And I still rate the man, I just think he is not a fergie or Hiddink style man manager. He is a boffin/coach par excellance and thats will remain his comfort zone.

Annyway If and when the club gets to that regime change point, wenger will no longer be the man for the job - because the job itself will be a different one.

[Joker]

I seriously don't think Wenger is the right man for the job. The point about us being run as a business first and a football club second is a pertinent point. I know the business side of things is important, and all clubs must take into account financial constraints if they want to survive, but the board, chief executive and the manager himself seem to place excessive emphasis on financial statistics as indicators of success, something that no Liverpool executive would dare do, especially as the fans treat Liverpool as more of a social institution rather than a business (as it should be)

[IBK]

Its the £6M dollar question, really.

The interweb has always been a place where views expressed are more extreme than on the ground. My impression at matches is that there is huge frustration rather than open rebellion against AW. Because of what he has given the club, I would even say that those who have come round to believing that he needs to go in order for the clubs's fortunes to improve still somewhere deep down harbour a secret hope that AW can turn things around.

I might even go so far as to say that many Gooners might have remained on side if it were just that we hadn't won silverware for 6 years. They appreciate the stadium, and recognise that it is not straightforward to be in the CL each year. They also appreciate that nop 'conventional' club can compete financially with the Chavs, Manure and Citeh.

Where AW has lost supporters, though, is through his messianistic approach. There is a fine line between a revolutionary and a crackpot, and he has become like a medieval alchemist who once made a startling scientific breakthrough but now is convinced that he can turn base metal into gold - only for results to prove continually that the experiment has failed. And the worst of it is that he insists that his method is sound, and that we, and everyone else is wrong - when the truth is staring him dead in the face.

And it feels as though his repeated experiments have not only tarnished his own legacy, but that they (as opposed to the competition, or the need to finance the stadium project), have lessened us as a club. That is what hurts.

[Alan B'stard]

arsenal ceased to be a social institution a long time ago. All taht guff about tradition, or even Charlie George telling you on a statium tour that we dont need a sugar daddy cos "we make our own money at this club" is just window dressing.

We are a property business with a lossmaking football club tacked on as an afterthought. Nothing more.

And just on that dont get too excited when you see our profits comparing favourably to United's. United make money out of football and our numbers are massively flattered by non repeatable property dealing. When you look at what our football club/franchise/whatever is worth its peanuts by comparison.

[Marc Overmars]

The biggest issue I have with Wenger's managment is that we are still talking about exactly the same problems and criticisims we were 4-5 years ago. The team appears to be in no better shape and he has to be held accountable for that. Granted we're no worse than we were, but the consistent stagnation leads me to believe that he can't win in this modern environment.

[Grebbo]

arsenal ceased to be a social institution a long time ago. All taht guff about tradition, or even Charlie George telling you on a statium tour that we dont need a sugar daddy cos "we make our own money at this club" is just window dressing.

We are a property business with a lossmaking football club tacked on as an afterthought. Nothing more.

And just on that dont get too excited when you see our profits comparing favourably to United's. United make money out of football and our numbers are massively flattered by non repeatable property dealing. When you look at what our football club/franchise/whatever is worth its peanuts by comparison.

True, but we got ourselves involved with some woeful football related commercial deals. Those deals are expiring within the next couple of years so you'd hope we can negotiate better.

I mean Spurs are getting 4x more in shirt sponsorship than us!! Thy've had one season in the Champs Lge FFS!! Our commercial deals are criminal.

Saying all this I hope Wenger doesn't have big money to spend - he'll only waste it. His big money signings are crap. Remember when he wanted to spunk £18m on Baptista!!

[Cripps_orig]

Someone should spam the board and point them towards GW.

I'll do my best

[Alan B'stard]

The biggest issue I have with Wenger's managment is that we are still talking about exactly the same problems and criticisims we were 4-5 years ago. The team appears to be in no better shape and he has to be held accountable for that. Granted we're no worse than we were, but the consistent stagnation leads me to believe that he can't win in this modern environment.

probably he cant but the club havent cared about winning in the modern environment for a long time. Sure they would like a trophy if it happens to fall in their lap but its not what they set their stall out to achieve

[Alan B'stard]

those deals werent taht bad given when we got locked into them and how desperate we were for casah at the time.

Also I have to chuckle at those demanding we buy them out and get better ones - Nike and Emirates are having a laugh now since getting shirt/stadium deals like that now would cost a lot more - the price has gone up simple as that.

WE cant tear up those deals without paying them off if we dont want to get sued. And they would set the price to get out so there would be no point switching - all the gains from doing so would be eaten up by their early exit penalties. It like some fuckwit moaning about his fixed rate mortgage when interest rates subsequently went down or about his fixed tariff gas bill when prices collapse.