Spurs
Spurs
NOTE: The location of this post has been moved and the thread title (which was previously Wenger is Leaving) has been manipulated by a notorious pro-Wenger moderator. What was previously a message that contained no profanity and made a comment on a real life event has now been manipulated by a deliberately provocative title. An old and crude propaganda and censorship technique.
I think the answer to that is more complicated than a straight yes or no.Originally Posted by IBK
The aim in football is to be winning trophies and as a club at the very top of the English game we shouldn't have gone this long without winning any, it's especially galling to have come so close on a few occasions and failed. Wenger's legacy has undoubtably been tarnished by that.
On the other hand he has overseen the most complex stadium move certainly in English football, kept us in the top 4 while spending remarkably little on transfers and the result is now we've paid off a lot of that stadium debt and have new commercial deals in place we are very well placed to compete with just about anyone. We could not have done that at Highbury and we wouldn't be at the new stadium but for the success (and resultant fanbase) that Wenger's early years with us brought. It's a less satisfying definition of success for many fans than some trophies and the two weren't mutually exclusive, we could have picked a few trophies up along the way, but it's a pretty impressive achievement nonetheless. The stadium and resultant financial clout, so vital in the modern game, are a part of his legacy.
It's unfortunate that we're now trying to compete with two clubs who can spend what they like with no conseqence. Football has never been a level playing field but in the PL era the gap between the haves and have nots has grown exponentially due to the Sky money and growth of the CL. We are one of the haves so we don't have much of a high horse about this but our financial clout is at least the result of hard work, previous success and prudent management rather than bestowed by a benefactor wanting to have some fun. Chelsea showed you can buy success, City showed you can do it with any club if you pump enough money in for long enough. Those two clubs deserve zero credit and it pisses me off that the media fawn over their 'achievements' and almost sneers at our attempts to compete.
Agree with all that. Yet for all this the record books will still record that we've won nothing. I would genuinely love to know whether a top team in the past has been forgiven because of the obstacles it faced. We are moral victors for sure - but will history care?I think the answer to that is more complicated than a straight yes or no.
The aim in football is to be winning trophies and as a club at the very top of the English game we shouldn't have gone this long without winning any, it's especially galling to have come so close on a few occasions and failed. Wenger's legacy has undoubtably been tarnished by that.
On the other hand he has overseen the most complex stadium move certainly in English football, kept us in the top 4 while spending remarkably little on transfers and the result is now we've paid off a lot of that stadium debt and have new commercial deals in place we are very well placed to compete with just about anyone. We could not have done that at Highbury and we wouldn't be at the new stadium but for the success (and resultant fanbase) that Wenger's early years with us brought. It's a less satisfying definition of success for many fans than some trophies and the two weren't mutually exclusive, we could have picked a few trophies up along the way, but it's a pretty impressive achievement nonetheless. The stadium and resultant financial clout, so vital in the modern game, are a part of his legacy.
It's unfortunate that we're now trying to compete with two clubs who can spend what they like with no conseqence. Football has never been a level playing field but in the PL era the gap between the haves and have nots has grown exponentially due to the Sky money and growth of the CL. We are one of the haves so we don't have much of a high horse about this but our financial clout is at least the result of hard work, previous success and prudent management rather than bestowed by a benefactor wanting to have some fun. Chelsea showed you can buy success, City showed you can do it with any club if you pump enough money in for long enough. Those two clubs deserve zero credit and it pisses me off that the media fawn over their 'achievements' and almost sneers at our attempts to compete.
Putting the laughter back into manslaughter
Spectacular post.I think the answer to that is more complicated than a straight yes or no.
The aim in football is to be winning trophies and as a club at the very top of the English game we shouldn't have gone this long without winning any, it's especially galling to have come so close on a few occasions and failed. Wenger's legacy has undoubtably been tarnished by that.
On the other hand he has overseen the most complex stadium move certainly in English football, kept us in the top 4 while spending remarkably little on transfers and the result is now we've paid off a lot of that stadium debt and have new commercial deals in place we are very well placed to compete with just about anyone. We could not have done that at Highbury and we wouldn't be at the new stadium but for the success (and resultant fanbase) that Wenger's early years with us brought. It's a less satisfying definition of success for many fans than some trophies and the two weren't mutually exclusive, we could have picked a few trophies up along the way, but it's a pretty impressive achievement nonetheless. The stadium and resultant financial clout, so vital in the modern game, are a part of his legacy.
It's unfortunate that we're now trying to compete with two clubs who can spend what they like with no conseqence. Football has never been a level playing field but in the PL era the gap between the haves and have nots has grown exponentially due to the Sky money and growth of the CL. We are one of the haves so we don't have much of a high horse about this but our financial clout is at least the result of hard work, previous success and prudent management rather than bestowed by a benefactor wanting to have some fun. Chelsea showed you can buy success, City showed you can do it with any club if you pump enough money in for long enough. Those two clubs deserve zero credit and it pisses me off that the media fawn over their 'achievements' and almost sneers at our attempts to compete.
Almost as good as a Syn post, that.
NOTE: The location of this post has been moved and the thread title (which was previously Wenger is Leaving) has been manipulated by a notorious pro-Wenger moderator. What was previously a message that contained no profanity and made a comment on a real life event has now been manipulated by a deliberately provocative title. An old and crude propaganda and censorship technique.
Top, top, top post.I think the answer to that is more complicated than a straight yes or no.
The aim in football is to be winning trophies and as a club at the very top of the English game we shouldn't have gone this long without winning any, it's especially galling to have come so close on a few occasions and failed. Wenger's legacy has undoubtably been tarnished by that.
On the other hand he has overseen the most complex stadium move certainly in English football, kept us in the top 4 while spending remarkably little on transfers and the result is now we've paid off a lot of that stadium debt and have new commercial deals in place we are very well placed to compete with just about anyone. We could not have done that at Highbury and we wouldn't be at the new stadium but for the success (and resultant fanbase) that Wenger's early years with us brought. It's a less satisfying definition of success for many fans than some trophies and the two weren't mutually exclusive, we could have picked a few trophies up along the way, but it's a pretty impressive achievement nonetheless. The stadium and resultant financial clout, so vital in the modern game, are a part of his legacy.
It's unfortunate that we're now trying to compete with two clubs who can spend what they like with no conseqence. Football has never been a level playing field but in the PL era the gap between the haves and have nots has grown exponentially due to the Sky money and growth of the CL. We are one of the haves so we don't have much of a high horse about this but our financial clout is at least the result of hard work, previous success and prudent management rather than bestowed by a benefactor wanting to have some fun. Chelsea showed you can buy success, City showed you can do it with any club if you pump enough money in for long enough. Those two clubs deserve zero credit and it pisses me off that the media fawn over their 'achievements' and almost sneers at our attempts to compete.
A really inspired post.I think the answer to that is more complicated than a straight yes or no.
The aim in football is to be winning trophies and as a club at the very top of the English game we shouldn't have gone this long without winning any, it's especially galling to have come so close on a few occasions and failed. Wenger's legacy has undoubtably been tarnished by that.
On the other hand he has overseen the most complex stadium move certainly in English football, kept us in the top 4 while spending remarkably little on transfers and the result is now we've paid off a lot of that stadium debt and have new commercial deals in place we are very well placed to compete with just about anyone. We could not have done that at Highbury and we wouldn't be at the new stadium but for the success (and resultant fanbase) that Wenger's early years with us brought. It's a less satisfying definition of success for many fans than some trophies and the two weren't mutually exclusive, we could have picked a few trophies up along the way, but it's a pretty impressive achievement nonetheless. The stadium and resultant financial clout, so vital in the modern game, are a part of his legacy.
It's unfortunate that we're now trying to compete with two clubs who can spend what they like with no conseqence. Football has never been a level playing field but in the PL era the gap between the haves and have nots has grown exponentially due to the Sky money and growth of the CL. We are one of the haves so we don't have much of a high horse about this but our financial clout is at least the result of hard work, previous success and prudent management rather than bestowed by a benefactor wanting to have some fun. Chelsea showed you can buy success, City showed you can do it with any club if you pump enough money in for long enough. Those two clubs deserve zero credit and it pisses me off that the media fawn over their 'achievements' and almost sneers at our attempts to compete.
Most definitely not a success. Whilst this might go against the general tone of my last post I have actually wanted Wenger out for quite some time. I personally feel if he would have put as much effort into the footballing side as the financial side we would be in a much better position. Though one could argue Wenger is planning long term and sowing the seeds to a long and sustained domination.
I personally feel we should have won something over the past 8/9 years, for example that Carling Cup Final defeat to Birmingham was totally unacceptable IMHO.
For me Wenger really has to deliver this season. I really do want to see a proper improvement, be it a higher placed league position or a trophy, the FA Cup being the only realistic target.
Last edited by selassie; 24-02-2014 at 09:25 PM.
For me, its an almost impossible situation with Wenger. He has worked miracles with our club and should be proud of what he has achieved. But he is running out of time to show that he still knows how to win trophies rather than finish top four.
Putting the laughter back into manslaughter
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