Match Reaction v Liverpool (away)

[Letters]

i'm tired of all this lazy "well, it was Liverpool at Anfield" - so what? we're The Arsenal

So what?
There's nothing magic about being "the Arsenal". Yes, we're a big club but we've been pretty awful at plenty of times in our history. The best Wenger years were the blip, we have no divine right to be up there challenging for the title.
I think we need to be realistic about where we are right now - and where Liverpool are, The Invincibles probably wouldn't have won the league last year.
At least there was a plan. It didn't come off, it won't always, but I was far happier with that performance than the complete shit show against West Ham.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think that's the key. He has to work with the youngsters while systematically getting rid of the seniors who have had long enough now to prove they are worth it. In a hit or miss manner, that's what he seems to be doing. I guess he still has to rely on the experience of some of the dross so it's not a total experiment from week to week, but I'd like to see some of the younger players get a more consistent run, rather than jumping on and off the bench all the time. Why Saka isn't the first name on the team sheet every week is a bit of a mystery. Why can't supposedly fitter than ever players not play weekly any more, especially given the pace we play at. Hardly tiring, it's a miracle if anyone stays awake.

We're not winning anything of note in the next few years, so there's time to rebuild with players who haven't absorbed every bad habit in the book.

[Letters]

aren't we? - we beat them in the Community shield, we beat Man City and Chelsea in the FA cup

he's gone backwards since then

We beat City playing much the same way as we did against Liverpool. Sometimes there are fine lines in games and they can go the other way.
We contained City well, we contained Liverpool well - they only got the killer goal late on.
We haven't gone backwards, it's just there are fine lines in football. We're too early in the season to really know where we are - so far we've won the games we "should" win and lost one I expected us to lose.
We have touch run of games coming up so let's see where we are after that.

[Niall_Quinn]

So what?
There's nothing magic about being "the Arsenal". Yes, we're a big club but we've been pretty awful at plenty of times in our history. The best Wenger years were the blip, we have no divine right to be up there challenging for the title.
I think we need to be realistic about where we are right now - and where Liverpool are, The Invincibles probably wouldn't have won the league last year.
At least there was a plan. It didn't come off, it won't always, but I was far happier with that performance than the complete shit show against West Ham.

You say we are a big club and then say we need to be realistic?

We WERE a big club and we have the history of a big club behind us. But we have shit players, bar a couple, and we don't spend anywhere near the money required to compete up at the top of the game. So how are we a big club?

What was the plan? For Laca to fluke a goal? For us to get 2 touches of the ball in the Liverpool penalty are in 45 minutes of football? To cower behind the halfway line and beg Liverpool not to hurt us? That's not a big club. It's about as small time as you can get.

I realise we're bumping along the bottom of longstanding decline - thanks Kroenke, thanks Wenger - but there's no cause for celebration because the decline has been halted. We're still at the bottom. There needs to be some indication we are heading back up. Slowly is fine. Gradually is fine. But always up. There have been too many false dawns at this club over the past decade. The jury is still out as to whether this is another one because setbacks like the performance at Liverpool - when the results counted, as opposed to the previous two triumphs, is a clear indication we are still capable of going backwards.

Nobody is asking for the team to go out and thump Liverpool at Anfield. That's a long distant dream, and nothing more than a dream at this stage. But that's not an excuse for a lack of ambition. We should still be trying to do the things a competitive football team does, even though we are outmatched. It's not as if we are non-league opponents, turning up for the day out. We're still a PL club. Didn't Watford (IIRC) find a way to beat Liverpool when it mattered? They could maybe do that 1 in 100 attempts, but in order to do it at all there's no way they took to that pitch hoping to keep the score down.

No way you can call yourself a big club if that's the mentality.

[Globalgunner]

It's the mentality that kills me with this team and this club. That's why I was so unenthusiastic about Arteta. He was exactly that kind of player too. How can you win any game with sidewinders like Xhaka and El neny in your midfield. They both offer neither protection nor offence. I dont want to hear any crap about moving in the right direction if at the end of the season we are behind Leicester and Wolves and maybe Everton with no better results against the top.4. Wolves would never go to Anfield and put in such a supine performance.

[Letters]

You say we are a big club and then say we need to be realistic?

We need to be realistic about where we are, but we are a big club and need to be ambitious about where we can get to.

And yeah, the plan was to contain them and try and get a goal on the break. Wasn't a million miles off working, Laca was one on one with the 'keeper - it wouldn't have been a fluke had he scored, he's a striker, that's his job.
I'm not defending the first half performance, I didn't see it and by all accounts it was awful. Second half though, we did OK. We contained them well, we nearly caught them on the break. Fine, they got the killer goal near the end but we weren't hammered.

As you say, small steps. Few indications we're heading in the right direction but...you know when I'll judge Arteta

[Niall_Quinn]

I was okay with Arteta when he was suggested first time around. We'd already missed out on Klopp - again, a lack of ambition, we had no serious chance of getting a chequebook manager, and the younger managers being mentioned didn't bring any more in the way of guarantees than a complete rookie, considering the problems already baked into this club which they would never have faced or even imagined existed. So I saw Arteta as fine, because the absolute priority was to get rid of Wenger. I figured Arteta would be booted if he was a complete mess, or else he'd maybe surprise us and at least bring a semblance of competitive football back to the club. Which he's sort of doing, albeit a bit random.

The way the pundits are going on about him now is just crazy though. As if he's transformed the team. I don't see it at all. He's made us more secure across the pitch, but that's the very minimum I would expect given Wenger and then Emery's suicidal attitude towards defence. But I can't see any indication we're doing more than that right now, just being a bit more secure. A bit more organised. More resilient. It's good, we needed it, it's something to build on. But games like the last one show what a mountain still needs to be climbed. If he's the guy who will help us climb it I don't know. A cup win, it's something. But cups and the challenge of the league are incomparable. So far, in terms of the big competition, it looks like he can stabilise us as a mid-table team. Maybe scrape a 4th in a Leicester style manner, every now and then? But that just represents an also-ran day out in the CL. And more money I guess. Even then - they buy Pepe.

It'll be a while before there's anything significant to get excited about, I'd guess. Took Utd and Liverpool decades to get back.

[Letters]

Don't disagree with any of that. Personally I'm more concerned about the West Ham performance than the Liverpool one.
I can live with us being cautious against one of the best sides in Europe, but 2nd half performance was pretty decent, I reckon.
I only saw the second half against West Ham and it was really awful, we were lucky to win that one. That was concerning. I guess Christmas will be a reasonable point to take stock.

[Mac76]

I'd like to see some of the younger players get a more consistent run, rather than jumping on and off the bench all the time. Why Saka isn't the first name on the team sheet every week is a bit of a mystery.

We're not winning anything of note in the next few years, so there's time to rebuild with players who haven't absorbed every bad habit in the book.

agreed, what the club did with Saka was a big con, playing him every week until he signed a new contract then barely playing him again - he'd have every right to feel very pissed off right now

i don't get why we don't play younger players consistently - they're not going to fall apart at the seams if they play more games ffs, why not use them when they're untainted by cynicism and full of positivity?