US Election & Politics - We're Making America Great Again!

[Mac76]

Your argument on smoking is weird too. And the rather strange misconception of libertarianism. A libertarian stance would never seek to dictate what individuals may do on their own private property. If people don't want smoking on their property I can't see how anyone would oppose that. Other individuals could then choose whether they wanted to frequent that property, or not. That's how a free society might operate. But when the state comes along and issues a decree that blanket bans everyone from running their own affairs on their own property that is quite obviously a different thing and can't possibly be justified in a free and choice based society. Only an authoritarian who believes he has more rights than others could condone such behaviour.

this shows how warped your thinking is

an extension of your argument is that any publican, for example, should not only be allowed to have smoking going on but also to allow customers to freely gun down others in the pub, or hand out bombs to anyone that wants them - because it's their own private property right, so anything goes?

these 'private properties' exist within nation states, which have laws by which we all have to abide. The alternative is literally anarchy.

which might all be very well if you're a gun-toting neanderhal wh9o is happy to live by violence, but most people don't

i suspect you yourself wouldn't last five minutes in the kind of situation you apparently wish for - i suppose you'd try telling a lunatic with a gun to stop trying to threaten you while you show them a video on youtube explaining why they've got it all wrong

[Niall_Quinn]

this shows how warped your thinking is

an extension of your argument is that any publican, for example, should not only be allowed to have smoking going on but also to allow customers to freely gun down others in the pub, or hand out bombs to anyone that wants them - because it's their own private property right, so anything goes?

these 'private properties' exist within nation states, which have laws by which we all have to abide. The alternative is literally anarchy.

which might all be very well if you're a gun-toting neanderhal wh9o is happy to live by violence, but most people don't

i suspect you yourself wouldn't last five minutes in the kind of situation you apparently wish for - i suppose you'd try telling a lunatic with a gun to stop trying to threaten you while you show them a video on youtube explaining why they've got it all wrong

Well you can't just gun down people can you? Because that would violate the main foundation of libertarianism, violence only being permissible in self defence. So, provided the pub was run by a libertarian, you'd be safe enough. And I don't see what harm giving out bombs would do, if a publican could find the time to do something so random. Of course if any of the recipients then used those bombs to harm other people or their property - throw the book at them for sure.

But I can see you don't really want to discuss anything at all, considering you skipped 90% of the debate in favour of mischaracterising libertarianism. Sounds like that's yet another thing you feel very threatened by.

Boo!

Thought we were making progress.

[Mac76]

Well you can't just gun down people can you? Because that would violate the main foundation of libertarianism, violence only being permissible in self defence. So, provided the pub was run by a libertarian, you'd be safe enough. And I don't see what harm giving out bombs would do, if a publican could find the time to do something so random. Of course if any of the recipients then used those bombs to harm other people or their property - throw the book at them for sure.

But I can see you don't really want to discuss anything at all, considering you skipped 90% of the debate in favour of mischaracterising libertarianism. Sounds like that's yet another thing you feel very threatened by.

Boo!

Thought we were making progress.

we are - you've now shown that you actually identify yourself with libertarianism despite trying to pretend you're completely idoleogy-free (which we all knew was rubbish)

by the way, whose definition of 'self-defence' would we be using in a libertarian state (if that isn't a contradiction in terms)? - what if the shooter said the other person was a commie, and therefore was seeking to undermine their freedom so the only choice they had was to shoot them, despite the 'commie' being unarmed and not using threatening language or behaviour?

[Niall_Quinn]

we are - you've now shown that you actually identify yourself with libertarianism despite trying to pretend you're completely idoleogy-free (which we all knew was rubbish)

by the way, whose definition of 'self-defence' would we be using in a libertarian state (if that isn't a contradiction in terms)? - what if the shooter said the other person was a commie, and therefore was seeking to undermine their freedom so the only choice they had was to shoot them, despite the 'commie' being unarmed and not using threatening language or behaviour?

Well I've said many times I'm a libertarian, but if it has taken until now for you to catch me in the act then better late than never. And by libertarian, I don't mean the libertarian party. So apologies, find another angle.

I think you might be struggling to detach privilege granted by authoritarians who assume they have superior rights, from actual rights and principles. Self-defence means just that. If another individual directs violence against you, you have a natural and more than obvious right to defend yourself. In terms of political systems, if a majority of left wing ideologues manage to hijack a society by lawful means, you don't have a right to use violence against them. However, once communists start doing what communists do, when they come to seize your property or force you into labour, it would be entirely legitimate to resist them by any reasonable means including violence if other options failed.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Good for you. Only one here with the guts to own up to it.

Guess I’ll vote here, now that I’ve weighed up all the options.

[Niall_Quinn]

Guess I’ll vote here, now that I’ve weighed up all the options.

Dude! There's only one option and you still got it wrong

[Mac76]

Well I've said many times I'm a libertarian, but if it has taken until now for you to catch me in the act then better late than never. And by libertarian, I don't mean the libertarian party. So apologies, find another angle.

I think you might be struggling to detach privilege granted by authoritarians who assume they have superior rights, from actual rights and principles. Self-defence means just that. If another individual directs violence against you, you have a natural and more than obvious right to defend yourself. In terms of political systems, if a majority of left wing ideologues manage to hijack a society by lawful means, you don't have a right to use violence against them. However, once communists start doing what communists do, when they come to seize your property or force you into labour, it would be entirely legitimate to resist them by any reasonable means including violence if other options failed.

the joke is you call someone like Biden a communist, he's nothing of the sort - the US think the NHS is communism FFS, that's why they want to buy it and destroy it

[Xhaka Can’t]

Dude! There's only one option and you still got it wrong

What can I say, I want to live in uninteresting times, so its Sleepy for me.

[Niall_Quinn]

the joke is you call someone like Biden a communist, he's nothing of the sort - the US think the NHS is communism FFS, that's why they want to buy it and destroy it

No, I don't call Biden a communist - I call him a puppet. He's classic establishment straight down the line. The communists are the vermin he's let into the basement in return for their votes (and re-votes).

The U.S. does not want to buy the NHS, U.S. (and Chinese and European) corporations want to buy it. And Blair started the auction.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's thought Trump will keep Florida.

Not a Blue wave there then.