Are we getting carried away with the doom and gloom?

[IBK]

Ok - came on here for some catharsis after yesterday, but (even though I am used to the mood here) I was surprised by the extent to which Arteta is being written off - even Letters thinks he may need to go

Don't get me wrong - things are looking pretty shite. IMO the team looks over- managed and over cautious, and the players look like they are neutered in the system - particularly going forwards. But...

Most agreed that Arteta's first (part) season was a success - and up to July his record compared favourably with Klopp's first 18 games https://www.planetfootball.com/quick...-at-liverpool/.

EPL results: W4 L4 D1 - narrow losses to City and Leicester and 1-3 loss to Liverpool
Europa results: P3 won 3
EFL Cup: P2 won 2

and while yesterday was bit of a horror show, the spirit of the team to save the point after going down to 10 against a rampant Leeds surely gives some indication that the manager has not lost the dressing room?

I'm not happy with how we are playing, and while clearly the manager has sorted the defensive structure, we are playing like underdogs too often. But we were up in arms when we were humiliated defensively in every other game, and is defence not the right place to start? Are we really saying that we have already seen evidence that Arteta is not going to cut it, and should Klopp have been sacked after finishing 8th in his first 'full' season with Liverpool (I know he joined in October but that was way longer than Arteta had last seasnon and our team had way more problems), which based purely on results to date we might achieve this season.

Is it not a bit OTT to be calling for the manager's head already?

[Marc Overmars]

He hasn’t lost the dressing room, quite the opposite actually. They’re following his instructions right down to the last letter and they kick and scrap for everything now. Which is why him going is a non-starter.

Yes it is OTT to suggest he should be gone this second, it’s still early days and a lot can change. However I believe I’ve seen enough to know what kind of a coach he is and what sort of system he favours. I have no issue with being a defensive team but not if it means sabotaging the attack. We have a striker who is capable of scoring 30 goals but has been a statue so far. If he’s going to turn us into a slick attacking unit as well then great but I haven’t seen any evidence of seeds being planted for that. Even the games we do win are often narrow affairs that could go either way, there just isn’t anything convincing about what I’ve seen from Arteta’s Arsenal.

I appreciate that he’s given us more of a shape and made us more robust however in reality, our fortunes haven’t changed at all.

[Letters]

I've been trying really hard not to leap on the "Arteta Out" bandwagon.
I mean, he did win us the FA Cup and there's definitely a lot more organisation in the team and we're more solid at the back.
But it's come at the expense of any creativity up front. We've scored 1 goal in the last 5 games and that was a penalty. With the players we have up front it's pretty pathetic. It's not helped by Spurs looking so good
My head says he needs more time. At least one full season. You can find plenty of examples of managers who didn't have instant success but came good.
The worrying thing is Arteta has no pedigree.
But...I do like him and he talks a good game, so...

Overall I think "Arteta Out" is a bit premature, but we are looking worryingly mid-table right now.

[Niall_Quinn]

For me the gloom comes from the club's habit of persistently accepting a lower standard and then labelling that success or progress. If you move out of a palace and live in a sewer and then move upmarket to a cardboard box under a bridge, that is progress. It still looks silly for a "big" club to be living under a bridge though. Even sillier when the club boasts about it.

[IBK]

He hasn’t lost the dressing room, quite the opposite actually. They’re following his instructions right down to the last letter and they kick and scrap for everything now. Which is why him going is a non-starter.

Yes it is OTT to suggest he should be gone this second, it’s still early days and a lot can change. However I believe I’ve seen enough to know what kind of a coach he is and what sort of system he favours. I have no issue with being a defensive team but not if it means sabotaging the attack. We have a striker who is capable of scoring 30 goals but has been a statue so far. If he’s going to turn us into a slick attacking unit as well then great but I haven’t seen any evidence of seeds being planted for that. Even the games we do win are often narrow affairs that could go either way, there just isn’t anything convincing about what I’ve seen from Arteta’s Arsenal.

All fair points. I suppose it comes down to whether the current unhappy situation is a base from which we can build, as the manager works out how the systenm is bluntin our attack, or a more permanent state of affairs. It is a worry that against Leeds he did what we all wanted and played Auba in the middle but we still looked toothless. My take is that Willian did not help and Pepe's head was clearly not on, and things looked better in this regard when Saka came on. But I guess I don't think the experiment has failed altogether. Yet.

[IBK]

I've been trying really hard not to leap on the "Arteta Out" bandwagon.
I mean, he did win us the FA Cup and there's definitely a lot more organisation in the team and we're more solid at the back.
But it's come at the expense of any creativity up front. We've scored 1 goal in the last 5 games and that was a penalty. With the players we have up front it's pretty pathetic. It's not helped by Spurs looking so good
My head says he needs more time. At least one full season. You can find plenty of examples of managers who didn't have instant success but came good.
The worrying thing is Arteta has no pedigree.
But...I do like him and he talks a good game, so...

Overall I think "Arteta Out" is a bit premature, but we are looking worryingly mid-table right now.

That's more like the Letters I know. But I reckon we could be expected to be mid table-ish this season simply as a result of where we started. The Mourinho thing is horrible, but I think we do need to remember that he is a vastly experienced and (mostly) successful manager, and Arteta is a rookie. Is it not a bit naive not to expect some teething problems with him?

[IBK]

For me the gloom comes from the club's habit of persistently accepting a lower standard and then labelling that success or progress. If you move out of a palace and live in a sewer and then move upmarket to a cardboard box under a bridge, that is progress. It still looks silly for a "big" club to be living under a bridge though. Even sillier when the club boasts about it.

I kind of get whet you are saying, but let's face it, the owners have spent money. I'm not sure that its 100% fair to label the ownership as not prepared to invest. Most people saw the case for bringing in a young manager and giving him some time to build sustained success, non?

[Letters]

Is it not a bit naive not to expect some teething problems with him?

Well, sure.
But it's also reasonable to think that a club of Arsenal's stature shouldn't be where a rookie manager cuts their teeth.

[Marc Overmars]

All fair points. I suppose it comes down to whether the current unhappy situation is a base from which we can build, as the manager works out how the systenm is bluntin our attack, or a more permanent state of affairs. It is a worry that against Leeds he did what we all wanted and played Auba in the middle but we still looked toothless. My take is that Willian did not help and Pepe's head was clearly not on, and things looked better in this regard when Saka came on. But I guess I don't think the experiment has failed altogether. Yet.

Nah it hasn’t failed, yet. One could argue it has been successful given the cup win.

Maybe we need better players but my gut feeling is I don’t see us moving away from this type of football any time soon. I’d feel the same frustration if we were scoring loads but conceding them as well. Improvement has to be all encompassing and I look at the football some of these sides with less resources than us play and I’m scratching my head as to why we shouldn’t expect to play in the same vibrant way?

I can’t be positive or patient when the end result is still the same, only we’ve gone about getting there in a different way now.

Hell, right now I wouldn’t really mind drawing our next game 3-3 or something if it meant showing we’re still capable of doing some damage up front. Whatever we do at the back without goals from Auba and the supporting cast we will be firmly rooted in mid table for the season, that is for sure. So getting them going again should be the priority, rather than overly regimenting the defence and neutering the team in the process.

[Mac76]

i just saw a really good tweet:

@TheFalseNein., 2h

I back Arteta, but he really buried himself by saying Özil wasn't playing for football reasons when the football is shite.

For me, Arteta's been so concerned with being the big man and having everyone prostrate themselves at his feet, he's ended up giving too much time to yes-men like Xhaka and not giving someone who is still a very talented player any kind of chance simply because he won't run around enough traffic cones.

if you're going to try to be the big boss you need the results to back it up, otherewise you're just an airbag