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[Ollie the Optimist]

PR wouldn’t fix anything.

If your argument after losing an election is to demand a different system, that sums up how bad your election campaign is.

Take the 2019 election, it wouldn’t have solved anything. The Lib Dems made it very clear they wouldn’t work with Corbyn, tories & brexit party wouldn’t have either. So that leaves teh SNP & Greens but they had a few large policy differences. That’s not to say they couldn’t have formed a coalition but if they all agreed on everything then they would be in the same party.

And again be careful what you wish for, in 2015 under PR. Tories would have been in government but propped up by Farage to give them a majority of around 15.

[Letters]

PR wouldn’t fix anything.

If your argument after losing an election is to demand a different system, that sums up how bad your election campaign is.

Come on, dude.
That’s just “you lost, get over it” by another name.
In 2015 UKIP got 12.6 of the vote and one MP.
I have no time for Farage but I think it’s reasonable to think that if 1 in 8 people in the country vote for a party then that should be represented by more than 1 MP out of 650.
And actually, if we had a more proportional system then it’s likely that UKIP wouldn’t have got so many votes. Our system encourages protest votes. In a more proportional system people would vote for the party they actually wanted and have confidence that their views would be represented in some way. The argument for our system is it yields “strong governments”. But that doesn’t mean “good governments”. PR has worked in other countries. It’s not perfect, no system is. But the difference between how people vote in our system and the resulting government is so big in our current system.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think FPTP is one of the better systems but thats not to say there aren’t better systems, however I’m yet to be convinced by the others that are out there so far.

I just struggle with the idea that many put forward saying if you add all the left wing votes then they win. The reason those parties dont win is because they are different to each other, if they were the same, they’d get the votes. You cant just say well if you vote Lib Dem then effectively its a labour vote so that counts. It doesnt, otherwise those Lib Dem voters would have voted labour.

I accept the point that perhaps ukip should have had more MPs but perhaps one counter argument is that PR made them more popular then perhaps they should have been as the EU elections meant they got in through PR whereas FPTP would have stopped that years ago.

I dont think FPTP is perfect but as i said I’m yet to be convinced by the alternatives. In 2019, throughout the whole of corbyns reign as leader of labour, he was massively unpopular, the polls showed that (and so did the election result given many labour places voted tory for first time in generations). I think FPTP produces the governments that the people wanted at the time.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sorry i just thought as usual you were trying to elevate yourself above the rest of us

And not supporting PR just shows you aren't interested in democracy or fairness, what you want is your libertarian anarchy imposed on everyone - the problem being you can't even convince a few people on a messageboard

I'm trying to force liberty on you? You're oblivious, aren't you?

[Niall_Quinn]

It seems that nothing will ever dissuade people from the big game. Change the parties, change the rules, change the bunting. Every single time. It's hard to know how otherwise intelligent people have been so thoroughly sold on such self-evident bullshit. Repeatedly. Even though the outcome is always the same.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think FPTP is one of the better systems but thats not to say there aren’t better systems, however I’m yet to be convinced by the others that are out there so far.

I just struggle with the idea that many put forward saying if you add all the left wing votes then they win. The reason those parties dont win is because they are different to each other, if they were the same, they’d get the votes. You cant just say well if you vote Lib Dem then effectively its a labour vote so that counts. It doesnt, otherwise those Lib Dem voters would have voted labour.

I accept the point that perhaps ukip should have had more MPs but perhaps one counter argument is that PR made them more popular then perhaps they should have been as the EU elections meant they got in through PR whereas FPTP would have stopped that years ago.

I dont think FPTP is perfect but as i said I’m yet to be convinced by the alternatives. In 2019, throughout the whole of corbyns reign as leader of labour, he was massively unpopular, the polls showed that (and so did the election result given many labour places voted tory for first time in generations). I think FPTP produces the governments that the people wanted at the time.

It’s a fucking horrific system were approximately 2/3 of the election are completely unrepresented with no voice under governments with unchecked control.

[Letters]

It seems that nothing will ever dissuade people from the big game. Change the parties, change the rules, change the bunting. Every single time. It's hard to know how otherwise intelligent people have been so thoroughly sold on such self-evident bullshit. Repeatedly. Even though the outcome is always the same.

You’ve said you don’t believe in government.
How do you think that would actually work in practice?
What’s the alternative?
Especially now where such a complex infrastructure is needed.
How would you get that done in your world?

[Globalgunner]

FPTP is the single reason why broadly unpopular PM and governments stay in power for umpteenth elections. The majority of the country hated Maggie's guts but she kept on winning elections. Most of Europe have ditched this ancient system, for good reason.

[GP]

Tories love FPTP because it benefits them. They don't care how undemocratic it is.

[Letters]

It’s a fucking horrific system were approximately 2/3 of the election are completely unrepresented with no voice under governments with unchecked control.

Correct. If you live in a safe seat then it actually doesn’t matter who you vote for, unless you vote for the party who you know will win anyway you have no chance of representation.
It’s a bullshit system.
The “it creates a strong government” argument doesn’t work. We have a strong government now but they’re making a complete hash of everything. They won a massive landslide with less than 44% of the popular vote. So they can basically do what they want and the majority of people don’t even want them in power.