Arsenal 2-2 Bayern Player Ratings and Match Reaction

[IBK]

I think you're being harsh, HCZ. It was disappointing to gift Bayern 2 goals in the way we did, but (1) Bayern are one of the world's best teams and 6x winners of the CL (all this talk of them being a fading force because of their Budesliga position was a load of hot air - the CL is their season now, and they were always capable of raising their game for this), and (2) its been 14 years since we were in the CL Quarters. For me talk of winning the competition was always fanciful. We are a callow team and it showed, but I don't think its unexpected that an inexperienced team and manager will make mistakes at the highest level. That said, Arteta can only pick the team, and it was not down to him that we spurned clear chances or mistakes were made for their 2 goals. Nor that Kane should have walked for his elbow and we would have had a pen at the death on another day.

So while we were naive, we are still understandably learning and gaining experience at this level. Given our history with Bayern, a draw is not the end of the world. We will learn and improve from this. I don't really expect us to go through, but calling for Arteta's head is IMO an over reaction.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think you're being harsh, HCZ. It was disappointing to gift Bayern 2 goals in the way we did, but (1) Bayern are one of the world's best teams and 6x winners of the CL (all this talk of them being a fading force because of their Budesliga position was a load of hot air - the CL is their season now, and they were always capable of raising their game for this), and (2) its been 14 years since we were in the CL Quarters. For me talk of winning the competition was always fanciful. We are a callow team and it showed, but I don't think its unexpected that an inexperienced team and manager will make mistakes at the highest level. That said, Arteta can only pick the team, and it was not down to him that we spurned clear chances or mistakes were made for their 2 goals. Nor that Kane should have walked for his elbow and we would have had a pen at the death on another day.

So while we were naive, we are still understandably learning and gaining experience at this level. Given our history with Bayern, a draw is not the end of the world. We will learn and improve from this. I don't really expect us to go through, but calling for Arteta's head is IMO an over reaction.

Firstly you’ll have to point towards where I’ve directly called for his head. I said he’s not a top coach and that’s consistent with a long established view of mine. I can’t guarantee I won’t be calling for his head but that depends on whether he meets the criteria I set out last month - which is that we either still need to be in the champions league or be competitive in the league come May 1st. The latter he’s on track to do, the former well I just don’t see how we repair the damage from last night.
I don’t buy into the oh well we’ve been out of the competition for so long stuff, bollocks to that…we are here to show we belong not to shit ourselves to an inferior Bayern team. No I don’t expect us to win the competition. What I saw of Bayern Munich lately…it was well within our capability to take them apart at the joints, but Arteta’s hubris and psychological weakness on the part of the players (which is ultimately attributable to the coach as well) has shafted us in one of the two competitions and it’s not even mid April.

[Mac76]

Was there last night and also just watched the highlights again

Our lack of a proper LB really hurt us last night, I assumed Tomi would start and while a fan of Kiwior he did struggle in what is not his natural position against a very good player in Sane. I wasn't surprised Kiwior was subbed at HT but again was expecting Tomi not Zin, who was typically awful, offering little in defence and equally as little in attack and giving the ball away frequently as usual - it surely means Tomi isn't sufficiently fit or even has excabeted his injury issues, which seems typical for him

Our LB position is one which Brighton (unsuccessfully) and Bayern (successfully) identified as a weakness and surely every team will do the same - it shows the folly of letting Tierney go

Brilliant goal from Saka but more generally it was another CL game where it felt ike the CL itself is something which makes us nervous, we never seem to be at our best

Raya on the first goal totally cocked up and it's disappointing when you consider he's supposed to be a safer option than Ram

Bayern's pel was a little soft but the Saka one wasn't really a good shout, it looks like he deliberately tripped himself up over Neuer's leg

I agree with whoever said somewhere here that Trossard and Jesus should start the away game, they have an assurance and confidence some of our other players seem to lack in these games plus are fresher.

We can still do this and if we can stay level in the away leg until near the end, we just keep it ultra tight then seek to win on pels

[Letters]

Raya on the first goal totally cocked up and it's disappointing when you consider he's supposed to be a safer option than Ram

I've heard people criticise Raya but I don't really think it was his fault.
His positioning was admittedly odd - way up the pitch when he didn't need to be - but I don't think that's what caused us to concede.
I'm more annoyed about the second one - we just let the player run and run, then chopped him down in the box. Then Raya went down so early all Kane had to do was pass it in. A mess all round.

[Mac76]

I've heard people criticise Raya but I don't really think it was his fault.
His positioning was admittedly odd - way up the pitch when he didn't need to be - but I don't think that's what caused us to concede.
I'm more annoyed about the second one - we just let the player run and run, then chopped him down in the box. Then Raya went down so early all Kane had to do was pass it in. A mess all round.

For me, if Raya keeps his cool and stays a little further back, instead of rushing to the ball, he's a better chance of saving it

You're right on the second, Kiwior needs to take a yellow there IMO to stop the run and yes, Raya went down too early for the pel and made it easy

[HCZ_Reborn]

I've heard people criticise Raya but I don't really think it was his fault.
His positioning was admittedly odd - way up the pitch when he didn't need to be - but I don't think that's what caused us to concede.
I'm more annoyed about the second one - we just let the player run and run, then chopped him down in the box. Then Raya went down so early all Kane had to do was pass it in. A mess all round.

Raya was at fault not just for the first goal but in kicking the ball rather than giving it to Gabriel which should have been another penalty awarded against us although Gabriel was just as dimwitted in both instances

Plus Easier said than done, You look at the run from Sane, players were trying to get a tackle in on him but he just danced round them all, the problem was the space he had because we’d pushed up so high and because Kiwior is not a left back much less an attacking wing back or whatever the fuck the role is

Saliba was impetuous but I think had he not have brought him down, he’d have scored anyway


The problem last night was to treat Bayern like a mid table premier league side. Whilst this is not a good Bayern side it was abundantly clear to anyone who isn’t an Imbecile (so doesn’t include Arteta) that they couldn’t be given time and space because of their pace and technique.

We went chasing a second goal after the first, and we compounded our error by looking to go back in front as soon as they equalised. There was no need for that, and a competent coach would have factored that into the equation and slowed things down for a bit.

Poor tactical set up, poor in game management. He got schooled by Tuchel.

[Mac76]

I also felt there was a real 'if only' moment when, not long after Saka scored, White was through on goal

If he buries that - or passes to Havertz who was running in - and we went 2-0 it would have really had Bayern on the ropes

[Letters]

I also felt there was a real 'if only' moment when, not long after Saka scored, White was through on goal

If he buries that - or passes to Havertz who was running in - and we went 2-0 it would have really had Bayern on the ropes

Correct.
I heard my neighbour yelling and thought at first we'd maybe gone 2-0 up, but he was actually yelling because we hadn't.
There are such fine lines in football. Had he buried that we'd probably have won the game. Ah well.

[IBK]

Firstly you’ll have to point towards where I’ve directly called for his head. I said he’s not a top coach and that’s consistent with a long established view of mine. I can’t guarantee I won’t be calling for his head but that depends on whether he meets the criteria I set out last month - which is that we either still need to be in the champions league or be competitive in the league come May 1st. The latter he’s on track to do, the former well I just don’t see how we repair the damage from last night.
I don’t buy into the oh well we’ve been out of the competition for so long stuff, bollocks to that…we are here to show we belong not to shit ourselves to an inferior Bayern team. No I don’t expect us to win the competition. What I saw of Bayern Munich lately…it was well within our capability to take them apart at the joints, but Arteta’s hubris and psychological weakness on the part of the players (which is ultimately attributable to the coach as well) has shafted us in one of the two competitions and it’s not even mid April.

OK fair enough re calling for Arteta's head, but I still think the criticism of Arteta is over the top.


It's easy to use hindsight to draw conclusions about our approach to the game, based on how it evolved. However this could equally apply the other way. The manager clearly set out at home to try to take the game to an 'inferior' Bayern team, and wanted his players to be positve and brave. Had White scored from his gilt-edged chance, this approach would have been vindicated. Also, recent games had shown that our defence was good enough to reduce Citeh - a better team than Bayern, to scant chances, and the manager backed it to be imperious again. It was not down to Arteta that key mistakes were made by the players involved in their 2 goals.


What this game showed is that mistakes will be punished by top players. Bayern may not be what they were in the Bundesliga but a front 3 of Kane; Sane and Gnabry is one of the best in the world, and what might have been salvageable misplaced balls were ruthlessly exploited by players at the top of their games. .


This is how it goes sometimes. You say that CL pedigree is bollocks, but experience isn't. Between 2011/12 season and now Bayern have been have been in the CL Quarters 4 times; the semis 4 times and the final 3 times, only falling below this level once in 12 years. They have huge reserves of experience to draw upon at this level - we don't. I don't think this reasult was because of the manager (beyond the fact that in hindsight any tactics can be argued to have been wrong), I think it was because the players were affected by the occasion for some parts of the game - and could have shown cooler heads at key moments.


Who knows what more defensive tactics would have resulted in? maybe we don;t score our first. If we are going to criticise Arteta then we have to commend him for his game changing subs too.