Sunak has no plan at all, just that PM seemed like a fun thing to do, tbh when you hav all that money and no ideals or morals then I can think of a lot better things to do than put yourself through all that tbh
Sunak has no plan at all, just that PM seemed like a fun thing to do, tbh when you hav all that money and no ideals or morals then I can think of a lot better things to do than put yourself through all that tbh
And again you’ve proved that you don’t know what you’re talking aboutOriginally Posted by Mac76
The Argentine Junta had been warned that any enemy vessel which was considered a danger to Royal Naval vessels in the region would be targeted, they were made aware of this a week before the sinking.
The Belgrano was zipping in and out of the exclusion zone, and if left until it was back inside the Zone it had the potential to attack British warships, this was a determination by British naval command who made the recommendation to Thatcher, she just green lighted it. This idea that because it was sailing away from this arbitrary area, that it wasn’t a legitimate target is for the birds.
If you want to blame anyone for those sailor’s deaths, blame Leopoldo Gualtieri who invaded our sovereign territory to begin with
It was heading away from the zone, end of and I do know what I'm talking about, I know we had gone back on the exclusion zone beforehand and that even the ship's captain thought it was just an 'act of war' but the point is we weren't at war and the ship wasn't attacking our vessels
By sinking it we threw away the moral high ground
And i really couldn't care less about some island in the South Atlantic being our 'sovereign territory' that's just imperialist jinogoistic bullshit - we should have handed it back along with the Elgin marbles and everything else we stole from other nations
And Thatcher had the chance to negotiate on that btw but she wanted a conflict to win an election
With respect, that's a bloody stupid comparison. Marbles don't get a say where they are, neither do they have an opinion about it.
The fact that The Falklands is ours is obviously ridiculous. I have no idea how it came about and I'm not sure it even matters as it all happened so long ago.
But the fact is it IS ours and the people that live there want it to stay that way. So we have every right to defend it.
It's like Spain's sulking over Gibraltar. They're obviously right, up to a point, but the people who live there want to stay British so they can STFU. Especially as Spain have some bits of northern Africa which are theirs for the same historical reasons.
No, you don’t know what you’re talking about and you’ve proven that
The Malvinas as the Argentines call them have never belonged to Argentina, the first country that claimed them was Italy and then they relinquished them. It’s not colonialism because the only inhabitants on the island before the British were penguins. The inhabitants of the island were all British citizens and that you would have been happy to either hand them over to a Fascist dictatorship, or tell them to abandon the homes they’d lived in all their lives doesn’t say anything good for you.
Even Michael Foot who was along with Jeremy Corbyn one of the most left wing leaders of the Labour Party fully supported The Falklands campaign.
People talk about the Islands as if they are akin to the Isle of Wight but they are 300 miles off the coastline of Patagonia.
War isn’t about some arbitrary moral high ground (we had to make tough decisions during the Second World War such as the bombing of German cities), imagine being prime minister and having to write a letter to the families of dead British service personnel because you had the chance to sink a hostile vessel which was part of a task force specifically ordered to attack British vessels (a message to this effect had been intercepted) and you hesitated because the ship wasn’t headed in the right direction at the time when your submarines intercepted it. It’s utter nonsense, and it’s a big reason why I abandoned the left because of this utterly morally confused dovish stance (that and I was never more than slightly to the left of centre to begin with)
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 04-07-2024 at 03:54 PM.
Ok, to show I can be fair I'll accept I didn't know the Argentines hadn't previously 'owned' the islands and somehow missed Foot's support, nevertheless I think one of the many problems with someone like Thatcher is her general disregard for ordinary people and hardline stances set her up to be cast in a bad light, with some justification
That said people like Scargill played into her hands with equally high-handed behaviour which similarly disregarded ordinary people, the miners were pawns in his game but Thatcher was correspondingly heartless
But back to the Belgrano I do actually think that the intercepted message wasn't justification unless the ship was heading toward our forces, instead of away, agaIn this wasn't a war but a lower-level conflict, it's nuanced I admit but for me it's still clear enough, the equivalent of shooting a soldier in the back when they're retreating
That’s your opinion but one I absolutely do not share, because we are talking about not an individual retreating but a war ship that had orders to fire on British naval vessels slipping in and out of the exclusion zone to avoid detection.
This whole we need to be good sports might have cost a lot of British service personnel their lives. Not something I could live with, if I dithered.
But they hadn't fired or even approached any British vessels, again that doesn't matter to you perhaps but it does to me, all we had to do was track it, as we were doing, and attack if it made hostile moves, and by hostile I think I'd include heading right towards any British ships, not just firing on them
I think I’d trust the judgement of senior Military commanders over your shall we say layman opinion on the matter .
I wouldn't, there's a tendency for them to veer towards aggressive action and play with their toys, the Vietnam war tells us all we need to know about military arroganceI think I’d trust the judgement of senior Military commanders over your shall we say layman opinion on the matter .
And so you'd like this country to be ruled by the military then?
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